One houserule for Investigate I like is: You get a free Recall Knowledge check when initiative is rolled. That makes sure it is always worth considering with Search or Avoid Notice in the room.
Nice! I see interrogate as conceptual. You get to question. If by chance there are monsters hiding in plain sight, you have a bonus to uncover them. That is what a Vindicator does.
The 2nd level dedication feat is so niche. And yet, it would have been extremely powerful in my game. The developers knows what type of game this archetype was made for, and I love it.
I agree I feel like a lot of people have been to harsh on the dedication. I'm running seven dooms for sand point for my next campaign and one of my players has been eyeing this class archetype. Feels like the dedication benefit is gonna come up all the time.
It is as niche as you want it to be. You can simply follow in the steps of Imrijka and become a Vindicator of Pharasma, as a result you will have the bonus everywhere, because cemeteries exist everywhere, i.e. churches of Pharasma. Maybe they are small in some places, but they are everywhere.
@@connorschutz1it's also useless if towns/cities are just "rest spots before next quest" it's also whack that a vindicator of a god of a god if wilderness doesnt get anything in wilderness? Imo it should've been effectively versatile performance but religion based (likely with impersonate changed to something else)
Idk, like it's a fun ribbon feature, but it still feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth... It's mostly just gonna let you keep up with the party face so you can get a 'cool character moment' as opposed to actually letting you do something a group built for a social deduction game couldn't already do better using a Charisma caster (the most common kind of class in the game) with expert/master intimidation and a bunch of related skill feats, which the Vindicator probably doesn't qualify for, since they're not actually trained in any of the social skills they'd need as a prerequisite. I guess maybe in a more adversial game, or one where you're frequently splitting the party it could be good to pursue different personal projects...? But I just don't think PF2e has the rules to support that kind of game. I can see a lot of players just not taking the Archetype at all, since it doesn't really give you a whole lot compared to the base Ranger feats - certainly not enough to justifying a feat tax like that - and while some of them are super thematic, they really should've just been added as skill feats.
Moreso than most builds, this class archetype really seems to benefit from some direct GM input. If it really wants to shine, it feels like the GM needs to add extra side content just to let it stretch its wings. I could see it being a tad disappointing to play in an Adventure Path if the GM runs it as written, but quite satisfying if the GM mixing things up with the archetype in mind. That's not a bad thing, I personally love developing personalised content for each character but it's definitely something I'd only choose if I knew my GM was willing to put in the extra work to make it fulfilling. Great video as always!!
I wish they got warden spells as bonus spells. It seems like you need a lot of feats to make the most out of the archetype, and it’s not too specialized in what it wants to do. All the other edges have a specific playstyle.
@@KaiHouston-m6jCheliax is probably only Asmodean Vindicators. They aren't particularly good at social stealth. And at physical stealth only if they go DEX.
@@christopherg2347 I played an AP many moons ago as an agent of the thrice cursed throne, as an Asmodian Inquisitor. It was fun being Evil for a change. :)
Man the more I look at the Vindicator the more I'm confused... I see a lot of synergy with recall knowledge here, and Ranger has some insane recall knowledge feats but they all key off nature, not religion. Combining Master Monster Hunter with Instructive Strike, the Knowledge Domain, and Thorough Research may well make you the best Monster Hunter in the game, even more so than Outwit but... Everything Key's off of Nature, there's little incentive to actually boost religion besides the interrogate and dedication feat, which are both well... Very game dependent and very limited in scope. As for the focus spell, not sold. Full Casters already complain about spell attack roll accuracy and this sorta 'locks you out' of status bonuses (thank God master monster hunter is a competence bonus). It doing nothing on a normal miss unlike something like Fire Ray is the same death blow that Distracting Decoy suffered. I feel like I'd rather just cast Slime Spit rather than gamble. Overall, I think it's a great archetype if only for bringing your casting so close (and sometimes ahead of) full casters, which by itself is worth so much, and while I don't like Mark at all I REALLY like Judgement. And of course, disrupt magic is OP AF and I totally respect your opinion on adjusting it, it's way too good as written. Erastil about to have a LOT of Vindicators lol.
![[lexchxn]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/u7ZWGeod_vPXqa2B_NOEd9zHXcgnu55rSil2GGMieC9qp_W8YNaTwgYmkPBsizs_55pq1-tVkw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
This has quickly become my fave channel as I've gotten into PF2e.
Great work as always Lex!
One houserule for Investigate I like is: You get a free Recall Knowledge check when initiative is rolled.
That makes sure it is always worth considering with Search or Avoid Notice in the room.
Investigate is literally already rolling recall knowledge for all relevant things in your environment
It’s complements searching rather than competing
Nice! I see interrogate as conceptual. You get to question. If by chance there are monsters hiding in plain sight, you have a bonus to uncover them. That is what a Vindicator does.
The 2nd level dedication feat is so niche. And yet, it would have been extremely powerful in my game.
The developers knows what type of game this archetype was made for, and I love it.
I agree I feel like a lot of people have been to harsh on the dedication. I'm running seven dooms for sand point for my next campaign and one of my players has been eyeing this class archetype. Feels like the dedication benefit is gonna come up all the time.
It is as niche as you want it to be. You can simply follow in the steps of Imrijka and become a Vindicator of Pharasma, as a result you will have the bonus everywhere, because cemeteries exist everywhere, i.e. churches of Pharasma. Maybe they are small in some places, but they are everywhere.
However, if you pick Pharasma you can't get the juicy bow for disrupt magic
@@connorschutz1it's also useless if towns/cities are just "rest spots before next quest" it's also whack that a vindicator of a god of a god if wilderness doesnt get anything in wilderness?
Imo it should've been effectively versatile performance but religion based (likely with impersonate changed to something else)
Idk, like it's a fun ribbon feature, but it still feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth...
It's mostly just gonna let you keep up with the party face so you can get a 'cool character moment' as opposed to actually letting you do something a group built for a social deduction game couldn't already do better using a Charisma caster (the most common kind of class in the game) with expert/master intimidation and a bunch of related skill feats, which the Vindicator probably doesn't qualify for, since they're not actually trained in any of the social skills they'd need as a prerequisite.
I guess maybe in a more adversial game, or one where you're frequently splitting the party it could be good to pursue different personal projects...? But I just don't think PF2e has the rules to support that kind of game.
I can see a lot of players just not taking the Archetype at all, since it doesn't really give you a whole lot compared to the base Ranger feats - certainly not enough to justifying a feat tax like that - and while some of them are super thematic, they really should've just been added as skill feats.
Well met. Don't forget to leave a like.
Moreso than most builds, this class archetype really seems to benefit from some direct GM input. If it really wants to shine, it feels like the GM needs to add extra side content just to let it stretch its wings. I could see it being a tad disappointing to play in an Adventure Path if the GM runs it as written, but quite satisfying if the GM mixing things up with the archetype in mind. That's not a bad thing, I personally love developing personalised content for each character but it's definitely something I'd only choose if I knew my GM was willing to put in the extra work to make it fulfilling.
Great video as always!!
I wish they got warden spells as bonus spells. It seems like you need a lot of feats to make the most out of the archetype, and it’s not too specialized in what it wants to do. All the other edges have a specific playstyle.
I can see an Outwit Ranger wanting this overlay. It could be a lot of fun. I wonder about Cheliax, what sort of Vindicators work there?
Vindicator is its own edge, actually, so you'd have to choose either Vindicator or Outwit.
@@lexchxn Dang! Oh well, still looks very cool. Thanks!
@@KaiHouston-m6jCheliax is probably only Asmodean Vindicators.
They aren't particularly good at social stealth. And at physical stealth only if they go DEX.
@@christopherg2347 I played an AP many moons ago as an agent of the thrice cursed throne, as an Asmodian Inquisitor. It was fun being Evil for a change. :)
@@christopherg2347 Cheliax has The God Claw, so Iomedea is on the menu.
Just fyi, there's a bit of mic static at around 2:25, which then occurs a few times throughout. Good video though.
Thank you! I'll have to give my mic a diagnostic check. Really appreciate the heads up.
Great stuff
great vibeo :)
You... I like you :)
You said that you must worship a deity and you must be sanctified, correct. How does that work if the deity listing says you cannot be sanctified?
Since the exact wording is "you gain your deity's sanctification", you just wouldn't be sanctified. They're still allowed options.
I think you're sort of a "sneaky Paladin" so you should be Sanc if your Champions are.
Man the more I look at the Vindicator the more I'm confused... I see a lot of synergy with recall knowledge here, and Ranger has some insane recall knowledge feats but they all key off nature, not religion.
Combining Master Monster Hunter with Instructive Strike, the Knowledge Domain, and Thorough Research may well make you the best Monster Hunter in the game, even more so than Outwit but... Everything Key's off of Nature, there's little incentive to actually boost religion besides the interrogate and dedication feat, which are both well... Very game dependent and very limited in scope.
As for the focus spell, not sold. Full Casters already complain about spell attack roll accuracy and this sorta 'locks you out' of status bonuses (thank God master monster hunter is a competence bonus). It doing nothing on a normal miss unlike something like Fire Ray is the same death blow that Distracting Decoy suffered. I feel like I'd rather just cast Slime Spit rather than gamble.
Overall, I think it's a great archetype if only for bringing your casting so close (and sometimes ahead of) full casters, which by itself is worth so much, and while I don't like Mark at all I REALLY like Judgement.
And of course, disrupt magic is OP AF and I totally respect your opinion on adjusting it, it's way too good as written. Erastil about to have a LOT of Vindicators lol.
Boosting:3
I played this archetype, it sucks.