In a live or recording situation, IRs are phenomenal. An absolute godsend. In personal play or at band practice, nothing can beat a real cab. Context and practicality are everything. Be smart and use what makes the most sense for every situation.
I ditched speakers about 2+ years ago. After using the OX Box, Boss Waza TAE and Two Notes Torpedo Captor X I opted for the Two Notes. My ears thank me. Don't care about moving air. Every day when I play I feel like I'm in Madison Square Garden
I’d be super interested in hearing differences in the impedance curve. Like use same amp, same performance, same IR, just different impedance curve in load box
I've been cab-less on stage for nearly 3 years now and made that transition when I went to IEM's. For live use, the consistency of either using the fractal or amp + IR loader/loadbox is invaluable. For home, I still plug into a cab about half the time simply for that speaker moving the air feel. For recording, I am mostly using IR's, again, becuase of the consistency. I think a lot of guys that want to get into recording need to know is that it takes a lot of money, time and equipment to get a good recorded cab sound and even then, results can be hit or miss. Being able to ALWAYS have the exact same sound from an IR or OX takes all the guess work out of recording. I've been using the FM3 and Captor X for a while now for DI and have an OX stomp unit on the way to hopefully be the new hottness both at home and on stage for my DI sound.
@@scottrrand37thanks for checking it out. I wish I had more time to put into the channel but a few years ago I got a new job that keeps me pretty busy and weekends are usually loaded with kids events and gigs 🥵
Amen, Fluff. I’ve been running my real amps through the Ox for about three years now and haven’t found anything that makes me as happy as moving air, except for it.
The tech is amazing now. But I’m going back to tube/cab after having a fractal for 4-5 years. They do an amazing job if you’re a touring musician and will save you money and your back. But just like you said fluff, there’s nothing that replaces moving air.
I’ve used Fractals for years and been down the Impulse response rabbit hole spending way more money than I’d care to admit 😂 Dyna cab has been a game changer for me, no more scrolling through hundreds of IRs.
I've been using a Fractal X-Load into an Atomic Ampli-Fire box for years. I just turn off the amp models in the Atomic and use it for Celestion IRs and some post amp echo and reverb effects. That's it. I still use some pedals on the front end of the amps. The beauty of the Atomic is that I have two outputs. I run 1/4" into an FRFR cabinet, and/or I run XLR into a mixer. Done. Simple. Effective.
After much experimentation I’ve concluded something similar. If you have amps at home - load boxes can get you very close to that full cab/pro studio sound. If you don’t already have several amps you are probably better off in the Fractal/high end modeler realm from home. If you’re recording an album for release and can get into a pro studio for recording that’s the best sound but not super realistic for most of us.
I use both mic and IR load. I have a house with a studio that has amazing preamps and conversion. Then a rented studio with some people I book hours in on weekends. It’s a shared space because money…but I work alone. So I can do either or with pros and cons. The IR stuff I can just walk to my living room any time of the day or night and write, also it’s easier for UA-cam and you can’t tell in a mix imo. Now with the live room studio I use, it’s fun as hell to blast ungodly levels, use my laptop to play back the songs I worked at home, re arrange and work out songs based on my live feel approach…it inspires me a lot. Also on UA-cam jams the live room studio with all the gear…Sky King, JCM 800, Fender Bassman, drums and so on looks cool. You can see where I’m going here. I think it just depends on the process. In the live room with speaker, yeah I’m using wedges, testing mics, if the amp has plexi glass around it to sit better in a live context vs studio mixed if recording that way. There’s nothing like playing your own amp, and it’s fun to play loud. But I think either way is suitable to make a song. I usually keep the IR tracks, and at the end go in and record a few real life cab takes for the song. It’s mostly dressing at the end…but no one really notices but me on the guitar once the drums, synths and bass are going. However as someone who plays many instruments…drums being one. I spend a lot of time in the live room and honestly it’s overdub for stuff I did at home via programmed drums, and guitar IRs. Work flow is where it’s at and getting the song out. So I tend to start with IRs, and no cab to write the bulk. Then go into the live room to dress it up with cab overdubs for choices, and different mics, angles and so on. If I was just to do cabs….it would take a long time. But also I do play live and a live room is a great place to see how my songs will mix in with my backing tracks..usually if it all fits in a live context it helps push the mix further when I get back to editing and have that live room take. If it’s fitting in playing on top live, it’s usually translating and I’m making small adjustments to bring home to mix. So it helps…but 80% of the writing and recording is on IRs and yes with a loud cab I may be inspired to come up with a cool new part I never would have with headphones and an IR. Live streams and UA-cam…IR just makes sense once you have things locked and ready to go. No doubt about that! IR makes it so you can write more, faster and you’re at home…damn if it’s 3am on a Saturday. But some people like me, need to hear that last 10% in a loud mix band context. But still most of the work, ideas are done on a load box.
Agreed. I have a dynamic IR Cab with greenbacks on it and have used it basically since I first bought the captor x a couple of years ago - it's actually the thing I have probably tweaked the least in my whole setup, it just works and sounds amazing.
See my comment, I love Torpedo...I use the Cab M-Plus since my amp has a built-in dummy load. Best setup I've ever had and I barely ever tweak it. My fav is BigBeast 4x12 with V30's.
I played through my Axe Fx 3 through studio monitors for a year and ignored my amps. I got a new guitar recently and the pickups just didn’t jive very well with the presets I’ve been using. I started tweaking on the Axe Fx, but quickly got frustrated with the interface, so I plugged into my real amp/cab/pedals and quickly got the sound I was looking for. So now I’ve been playing through my real amps for months and loving it. I’ll eventually get around to tweaking my axe fx presets, but I’m loving real amps at the moment.
I got hyper familiar with my 2003 mesa 4x12 cab, learned every inch of that cab, then a couple years later bought the two notes torpedo live, and profiled my mesa cab, loaded into my torpedo live and ive had the best of both worlds for 3 years now, zero complaints.
Great video Fluff. Now that you have talked about this I think the next step would be to do a demo of your process and the tones you are getting. I love my AXFX3 and have been using the fractal load box SIC for all my tones for awhile now. I'd love to see a real pro do it. Happy to see you feeling better and creating great content again!
One thing that made a huge impact in the way I feel my ampless pedalboard through inear monitoring is adding a light room verb to the end of the effect chain. This makes it sound more "acoustic like", or more like a miked amp would've sound, I even reduce the reverberation itself in favor to the first reflections to get just the feel of room placement. The downside is having to sacrifice an Reverb just to simulate the ambience of an amp in a real room, but you'll be surprise on how this simple trick can help (despite the fact that the moving air factor is unbeatable to be honest).
This trick doesn't substitute the ways an real amp react being pushed hard by a guitar, aspects like power sagging, tube and transformer compression, speaker asymmetrical impedance and dynamic reactance, it just makes your ampless system sound a little more like a miked amp.
Hi, what worries me about buying the ox box is that a UA-cam company says it has problems connecting. And that Universal Audio doesn't produce updates and I'm afraid to buy such an expensive device and end up stuck with it. What do you think about this topic? Thanks
@@Avim111 I love my Ox, but the wi-fi connection can be really irritating. I happen to have an iPad i don't use for much else, so i just have that connected to the OX at all times and control it from there, meaning i don't rely on routing the OX through my home network. i wish UAD would release some more updates, but, all in all, it's such a great device for recording in my bedroom and environments I can't just blast an amp. I think it's worth it overall.
I have not done this personally on a long term basis, but the best tone I have experienced is the remote cabling and Isolation room method. Tim Pierce does this. His tone is insane! It should be, he's one of the top session guys in L.A. But you can't go wrong this way, but you need isolation space, amps, cabs, mics. Your'e right......nothing beats moving air. Oh lastly, a huge factor: fingers
I just play my 1x12 ENGL cab raised to ear level. Feel super immersive without bothering the neighbours. Plug it into 15 watt tube preamp , loud enough for recording and a drummer in small room.
I mainly use my AXEFX3 when I record. I’m convinced that in a mix, nobody can tell it’s an amp and cab sim. I’ve recently started experimenting again with mic’ing my 2x12 and my Marshall DSL20 using two SM57s. It does sound different but in this particular setup, I actually prefer the AXEFX3 in a mix. Granted, I’m a hobbyist playing in my home and not in a professional studio.
I agree with your perspective here when to comes to recording. I still choose to use all the analog gear since I have it, but for guys that don't or don't want the hassle (which it is) the digital stuff has come a long way. That said when I see live bands it's generally pretty obvious to me if they're analog or digital. In the room the digital stuff is usually much more flat. I've seen a couple exceptions but...
I have the Ox and will use it with my JCM 800 2205. Sometimes micing up my 2x12 mesa cab with a 57/421. With attenuator set on 3 or 4. Or sometimes just using cab sims. I was starting to not be inspired by the tone I was getting with the attenuator and the 800 so I decided to unhook the ox and connect amp directly to cab and wow! I was blown away by the incredible tone of that amp! I had forgotten. Even setting the master volume on 2 was better than the ox attenuator set on 3 to 4 with master volume at noon. Not sure how I feel now about the quality of the ox attenuation? Cab sim and recording silently is fine but nothing beats pushing real air with a fire breathing dragon!
I’ve done it this way for about 2 years now. My amps going into Fractal X Load into my Axe Fx 3 with the amp block off. I use the cab block for the desired cab or IR. It’s my preferred way, but I do want to try a Red Seven Amp Central.
I have used a lot of Virtual amps over the past few years and the biggest problem I have had is headroom and the way headroom behaves in a plugin as opposed to a real amp. I do a lot of low to mid gain stuff and usually with a plugin the headroom just isn't there so there is very little play in the level where things distort and a of the creaminess from your pedals just isn't there. However , like most people I am working on my own with limited space and not needing actual cabs and mics really helps.
John Nathan Cordy did a video on setting proper input gain on your interface to make plugins behave more like the real thing. This could help your headroom problem.
I've been using IR's for several years out of necessity. They are convenient, easy to use, silent (an absolute must when you live in an apartment building with poor sound isolation) and you have (almost) unlimited options, but I certainly miss the fun in mic'ing a real cab. I'm like you, I like using my real amps hence why I own a Torpedo Captor.
You can always make your own IRs with your own cabinets. Even in an apartment, it wouldn't be too bad to make them in the middle of the day. Sure, you will be running test tones through them, but it's not nearly as loud as chugging on your guitar, and you don't need to do it for very long.
The best sound I have gotten so far in my 20 years of playing has come from using real amps into a Two Notes Torpedo Reload and Wall of Sound. Nothing beats a real amp, and nothing beats a real cab/microphone, but I'll concede that load boxes and IRs have gotten so close that I've stopped caring about the cab/microphone part
If I'm recording my band's stuff, I go ahead and set up a cab and mics to get an original, unique(to that recording session) sound and take the time necessary to move mics and all that jazz. But when I'm doing UA-cam, unless the video is _about_ a cab or speaker or something similar, it's IR's every time. The workflow and the consistency is so much better that way. And I just use a Torpedo Captor and a freeware IR loader with IR's I've made of my cabs. If it sounds good, it is good!
I've had a ton of people bring Kempers and AxeFX and Helix and blahblahblah into my studio. I've beat every tone from every one of those boxes with my cabs. Every time. ...and it's a bummer. I WANT to use the simple solution. I WANT to love that stuff. I WANT to get guitar tones I and my clients love super quickly and with no fuss. But it seems like I just don't know how yet. Good news is I'm pretty efficient with getting a good tone from my cabs and I have an iso room that does a pretty good job keeping the cabs acoustically separate from everything else. I dig the X-Load option, though. Theoretically I could get a great amp sound into the computer, cab it adequately but quickly with an IR, and then recab it later (rather than a full reamp) if necessary with a line out of the interface to a power amp and a cab. I wonder what we'll be looking at in that case. Have you tried anything like that, Fluff?
I have a Rivera rockcrusher recording and a great feature is that the EQ curve can be shaped to produce the tone characteristics of specific classic speakers. No one ever mentions it since the UA Ox which is a real shame as it is a brilliant product.
I understand the wanting to use your amps, I totally relate to that feeling. I have not made the leap to IR's and the word on the street is they are very good.
I love all my Headrush gear (former employee), but when I want to use my actual amps (VHT 50/CLEQ, 5150II, JCM800 2205, Boogie Racktifier and Mark V / 25, etc), the Two Notes Torpedo Reload and C.A.B. M+ knock it out of the park for me. The amps still sound like themselves; Each one's unique character is unaffected. I still have all my cabs and microphones, because I hate to sell stuff, but I can do without them, no problem. Great video, as always, Fluff!
I find some duality in the statements of 'Nothing beats moving air' (which i do fully agree with and will further elaborate on later) but also stating that using an IR is way more effecient and doesn't sound that much worse that it outwheighs the effecieny (which i also fully agree with) but you still like using a real amp over using a real cab (which i don't agree on and definitely think it's more in the cab then the amp). Indeed i agree that it all comes down to moving air, hence why music will always be more exciting when played louder (which also translates to the louder is always better thingy in the mixing and mastering areas but also everywhere else. But the thing is. Music is ALWAYS moving air. So even when you record your guitar fully digitally (straight into interface, VST amp, IR, mixed fully in digital realm. You're still listening to it on speakers thus at some point in time it will always be converted to an analog signal going through speakers (moving air) into your ears. An IR (in the case of guitar cab IR's) Is basically just a Mathematical representation of how that specific microphone behaves in that specific environment with those specific speakers blaring a signal into it that your computer or software can understand and simulate on other sources. Ofcourse there are certain limits with this mathematical calculation and the abilities of your digital system (computer and software) to read, understand and simulate which can result in slight audible differences (argueable degradation of the signal) over time when passing more and more of these calculations (digital processing). However these same limitations could be presented in AD/DA in the first place. So this will also affect whenever you take an analog signal and convert it to digital or the other way around, thus also when recording a cab into your DAW and processing it digitally. Yes i am a big fan of cabs on stage, i think this is the prime reason people think modelers sound bad is because either the ones you heard weren't dialed right or they weren't playing through a power amp and cab. I learned early on that cabs and speakers have a way bigger impact on your tone compared to amps. Play the same amp through different cabs and speakers and it will sound widely different whereas if you play different amps through the same cab, well it all kinda sounds like a slight deviation of the same tone when dialed to reach the same. A custom cab and figuring out how exactly to mic that cab to get the best of it will have so much more impact on your tone then trying different amp heads. However i believe in the studio it doesn't really matter and you'll easily get away with IR's as long as it's a good tone in the end, same for big stages with serious level of PA esquipment and a big name sound guy. But if you really wanna go for your own sound, get your own cab with your own unique speaker combo and learn what it's best mics and mic positions are, instant secret to developing a signature sounds and sounding different from everyone using the same IR's (probably a v30 with an SM75 in there somewhere). The best live bands i've seen always had a loud stage volume and interesting cab combo's. and every time i hated the guitar sound it's because they're using modelers without real cabs. Find your speakers, blow some up in the process, it's cheaper and more fun then buying amp heads. Just find one decent amp you like, wether it's a modeler or a real tube amp, try to as much speakers as you can, pick your favourites, try some blends in different cabs, try different ways of micing it. Now you can swap out effects, guitars and amps, but you got that sick ass cab you can rely on. That cab is like your beacon of hope and light and will never fail to deliver YOUR sound.
Surprised you never tried the Two Notes Wall of Sound software for IR where they have different size rooms to put the cabinets, different mics with placement by drag and drop, as well as power amps if you want to use just a real preamp. I love it.
This man is correct. A while back when I was selling a friend my old Two Notes Cab, he rolled his eyes and cut me off when I was explaining that speaker bruising was, and how regular IR's lacked it and was obvious even in a Mastered mix. Oh well. DynIR have really made it hard to tell the difference in a full mastered mixed if a real cab was used or an DynIR was used. IMO the Fryette PS100 is the best Loadbox+ ever.
Ive been using an inexpensive Line 6 for my electric right through the PA in the last few months. What I miss is the feedback that I can get with a Small tube combo cranked. Actually I played a gig with a hundred watt Katana and my pedal board and I was able to get the same feedback in crunch mode which shocked me being a tube amp snob.
The man knows what he's talking about...the ONLY time I've ever been happy with my sound is playing through a REAL amp (TC-50 head) into my Torpedo. This is the only setup that I've never felt like fiddling with settings or sounds once I got something I liked.
The Captor X has lead me to the same conclusion. I use a combination of modelers (HX) and tube amps at home: when I switch to the 'real' thing for recording, I go, "oh, there it is." But, with the modeling, I can put away the note pad and not have to worry about finding the correct settings if I come back later to work on a project. A healthy mix of both works for me. And, I just have one cabinet now - I sold the rest of them over a year ago and haven't missed them.
Hi, what worries me about buying the ox box is that a UA-cam company says it has problems connecting. And that Universal Audio doesn't produce updates and I'm afraid to buy such an expensive device and end up stuck with it. What do you think about this topic? Thanks
I’ve come to a similar conclusion. I’m much happier with the high gain tones from my real amp but for home use and recording I use a Captor X and it’s been fantastic. I just bought the modelled cab that best matches my real amp, set the mics and other settings, then removed the USB and never used the software again. No fuss, no choice paralysis, just (close to)my real setup only silent
I fell off of watching your videos for a little while... maybe 6 months or so, after having watched consistently since what...2011 or 2012? But here lately, I've REALLY been enjoying your videos. Keep 'em coming. Here's hoping your recovery is going smoothly!
This got me thinking - What is sound but a reaction of air molecules due to changes in frequency? More speakers offers more power to move more air, but it goes further than that. Each individual speaker is slightly different and those subtle differences offer more detail. The same can be observed when you double track guitars. The subtle differences of each take equates to more detail in the bus track. I use IRs for the convenience but to this day the best in the room tone I've heard was with a mid 2000s mesa cab. Since I need to be ready to track at a moments notice, IRs are the way. Also the ability to cycle through IRs during the mixing phase shouldn't be overlooked.
100 percent agree. Tubes are everything. And the Ox box comes close to the sound of a cab. Nothing can compete with the real thing but 95 percent is very close. And only if you know what you’re doing w the real thing of course.
I've honestly struggled with both mics and IRs. There's only been a handful of times where I've just nailed the right positions with my microphones without much pre or post production, but at least my IRs (ones I made myself) are consistent and I can use them in any situation I want. I want to use my Triamp Mark 3 and not digital stuff.
I got a suhr reactive load back in 2021 and have used ir's since. But I still reach for a cab for when I want to crank it up and get the in room sound. Shows i've seen where there are no live amps sound generally dull with few exceptions.
Bogren's IRDX tech they used on the MLC sim really gives any IR I load some extra "oomph". They really need a standalone cab sim with that, shits huge.
I've switched to almost entirely digital, but I have the line 6 spider valve mkii tube amp, where they teamed up with bogner, and it sounds amazing. I've never been able to get the oomph (air movement) to feel quite right digitally. Even though I love my digital stuff, and it's like 96% of the way to perfection, the amp in the room sound is still irreplaceable...for now.
Agree with you. The convenience of IRs is hard to beat, and, of course, the flexibility and recall options they give you is just way better. Have you used the Driftwood or RedSeven reactive load boxes? They are the best on the market, IMO. The Driftwood seems to have a bit of extra bass and thump to it, whereas the RedSeven seems more neutral or balanced, but both are great, and it comes down to preferences, and those preferences might change depending on the amp being used. The Suhr Reactive load is decent too, but its impedance curve is based on a greenback, and it's much thinner and brighter sounding than the Driftwood or RedSeven. It doesn't have nearly as much thump, making it perhaps not as well suited to high gain modern metal stuff.
I have the FM3, which sounded great before, but once Dyna Cabs came out.... total game changer. Not having to wade through and audition different IRs streamlines the process so much, and is super easy to dial in tones now. Haven't used real speaker cabs for two years and as far as practicing and recording goes.... I don't miss them.
Moving air=volume. Yes tube amps can sound and feel incredible at volume. I’m just a basement player. At the volume I’m playing at, a tube amp sounds no better than my Helix. I really like my Helix. I don’t know if I’ll ever sell my tube amps but these days I turn on my Helix about 80% of the time.
This has been the case for my home rig for several years now. Been going directly to a powered FRR speaker from simulated cab output of a couple different preamp options. I can't imagine going back living in an apartment. The whisper quiet volume allowed in a shared living space from a regular 12 inch guitar speaker just doesn't sound good. Can sound good at an volume through FRR speaker. Still using a cab for stage volume or at rehearsal, but only to hear myself. Going direct to FOH from the same IR output.
Awesome Video. Over the years Ive discoverd my personal nirvana is a compact 1x12 and a Captor-X. It gives me that "thing" I need to caputure a genuine performance.
I’m waiting for someone to make a loadbox with various impedance curves of common speakers. I’m aware of the Fractal one but have not tried it yet. My approach is the same where I use the Axe FX III for the cab and effects after the amp line out from the loadbox. What’s great about the Axe FX modeling is that you can change the impedance curve to match or mismatch the Dynacab. Those of us who still like real amps really need a device with many different impedance curves but I realize it’s hard to build a loadbox with all those physical traits to the hardware in one device.
I'm good at making noise, but not capturing it. I will forever love the sound in the room coming out of a cab, but when it comes to recording, it's going to be impulse responses. Setting up a mic in front of a cab properly in a room that's not ideal and trying to record it well enough to sound good in a mix is a skill that often gets overlooked. My Two Notes just takes care of that for me. It's the easy way out and purist may shake their heads, but the listener (myself and the audience) gets a better result in the end.
I've been considering going down the Valve-Preamp-Pedal > IR Stompbox > Powered-FRFR-2x12 route for a while. I'm not a gigging musician, but I like the idea of being able to play uber-quietly at home, but also ramp-up the volume when I jam with friends and want to be heard over the drummer. I'm also old-fashioned enough to want to get all my distortion from analogue sources hence not just getting an HX-Stomp and nothing else (which is absolutely what I would do if I were a touring player), and as someone who owned a 4x12 as a teen, I do miss having lots of air moving around me when playing, especially at low volume (I currently use a 1x8 and while it does quiet well, it's not the same quiet as you get from a 4x12 running very low) I'd be interested in others' thoughts on this approach
Great vid. I honestly couldn't tell that you hadn't used a cab. And I remember you saying some of the tones on the dragged under records were plug ins and you couldn't tell. They album sounded fantastic. But now that you've made this video. I'm genuinely curious to see you do a comparison video between using a real amp and can vs a real amp and IR vs a plug in and IR. Just to see how different they all sound
Hi, what worries me about buying the ox box is that a UA-cam company says it has problems connecting. And that Universal Audio doesn't produce updates and I'm afraid to buy such an expensive device and end up stuck with it. What do you think about this topic? Thanks
Makes sense. Much easier and convenient to do it that way. AND, you aren't in a studio, so you can't push a cab to the point where it sounds the best, so this setup is the best sound as well. Win,win,win 😊
UA OX has the best cabs+cone cry. This in my opinion is better than have the correct impedance curve, which you can set with eq if you know what you are looking for.
I have been afraid to give up my cabs. I am so used to the "Feel" of cabs. I use modelers into tube power amps and have really enjoyed it. So I haven't gone the rabbit hole persay of IR's. So this is interesting to me..
@@poorman9259 you have to treat it like a "preamp pedal". Setting it with that mentality and adjusting it with a clean setup, it works pretty damn good.
@@TVoltG I get that, even bypassing the preamp and just running into effects return I always just feel like I’m playing through two things and I don’t like it, I don’t have the same feeling when I play one or the other
@@poorman9259 I don't ever run into any effects loop. If I am using a tube amp, I use the clean channel set the gain clean and volume high, the output on the modeler becomes the master volume into a couple 412 cabs. Sounds massive and even amazing at home volumes. But using a Fryette Power Station is fantastic as well. Just used one the other day. Bout to get a couple for a mono wet dry setup.
@@TVoltG I’ll give the ole axefx3 a run through the front of my again for shits and giggles here in the next few days and check it out, I’ve always been curious about getting a power amp like a freyette but I didn’t wanna be stuck with it if I didn’t like it
Great video! and thanks. Making the changes outlined makes sense for your needs. I enjoy metal and I like clean tones, and I think the mfg's of "multiple amps in a box" have done an outstanding job for everything except clean tones. Regardless of the amp cab(s) in a box, clean amps sims don't stack up to the real thing. Sorry, I love MK V's but my fav is a Fender Deluxe Reverb and no one comes close to the real deal, they just don't. The UA 65 Dream pedal is just fair, but that's it. Fractal isn't close and neither are the 10 or so top options. Great 2024 out of the box video - Happy New Years - Cheers
With a lot of modern production nowadays, it's always a mixture of real and digital amps and cabs. There's nothing wrong with either or as long as it sounds good. If you love real amps but don't have the space or the noise reduction to mic an actual cab, a loadbox is always nice to have along with some good quality speaker impulses. There's also nothing wrong with just using digital amps, whether you're using a hardware digital amp or in plugin form. You can get it to sound close to the real thing, and you also have that recall ability. Whatever you want to do to record guitars, as long as it sounds good, it shouldn't really matter how you get that tone. Only guitar nerds or musicians care about realism versus your common consumer who listens to your music who has little to no knowledge about music technology.
One thought: I have the Ox Box and play metal with Mesa Mark V. With the Ox, you can send out the raw amp sound via spidf and use an IR in the box. Would this solve the “fender twin” impedance issue?
The impedance curve has nothing to do with the IR. It’s the curve built into the hardware of the unit when receiving a load from an amp. The curve is the curve and you can’t change it hardware-wise.
@@chronicnarnia but is the di signal captured before or after the unit receives the load from the amp? Obviously the x load would be after and I assume the ox box would be the same, but I’m not sure. Previously I put an RNDI DI box between my mark V and the ox box and compared the di signal from the ox and RNDI and I could not tell any difference at all. I will likely get an x load to try out. I want the best metal sound I can get, worth a shot comparing.
Hi, what worries me about buying the ox box is that a UA-cam company says it has problems connecting. And that Universal Audio doesn't produce updates and I'm afraid to buy such an expensive device and end up stuck with it. What do you think about this topic? Thanks
@@Avim111 I have never had a problem with my ox box. Once you connect it via wifi and adjust the cab settings and program them to the knob, it never needs to connect again. I rarely connect to mine, I don’t need to.
the mention of the impedance curve is ingenious, however for live applications which loadboax/IR loader combo would you recommend? It is not always possible to carry a loadbox as well as an IR loader.
Modeling and Neural type of stuff are good and useful (I use them) but it’s just one giant glob of using out of necessity. I love using cabs and monitors at the same time along with the PS100 for attentiation and OX for the it’s modeling to my monitors. But my use is not for recording purposes so a bit different than what Fluff is focused on here. But for those who just want to enjoy the sonic bliss try it, it’s amazing.
Interesting. Would you do a video between different loadbox. Because My boss or my OX or my 2notes reload doesn’t sound the same. Like one amp, different loadbox, same IR. Should be cooooool
I play for shits more than anything else these days. I prefer my 4x12 to playing with headphones or through my studio monitors. It fills my room better. I don't need to second guess anything, or tweak and fiddle. Literal plug-and-play.
Yeah i think this is the best option if you are not doing any recording. The world of guitar playing and guitar recording are worlds apart, cuz the sound you hear in your room is nowhere near the sound you hear recorded. Thus the endless tweaking
We’ve been using ox for a year and now switching back to cab. For me, there’s so much more air and not overly compressed. Maybe just got it overdone by UA-cam and instagram perfect sounding and all very similar. Live much easier to use Ox. Just my humble opinion and my hearing I do like your channel
My experience using digital speaker/ cabinet simulators is that the guitar tones are completely dependent on pa speakers and monitors, which need to be able to replicate sounds of the actual 212 or 412 cabinet. I've yet to find a monitor that can do that without being inherently a 212 speaker cabinet, which seems to defeat the premise of not having to bring along a speaker cabinet.
Synergy pre-amps with stereo out into the Ox stomp for the win. :) JK, I ran amps through the Ox for a few years until going the pre-amp route. Ox Stomp was the end of the search. All solutions, while not created equal, are amazing and get tremendous results.
Very interesting. I got to an opposite conclusion that I can use preamp modelers and get the best results if the chain ends with a power amp into cab and mic. When tried real amp into a load box and then IR I got descent results but always lack some sonic dimension.
Great video! Another perspective: If you're working on a blues record and youre trying to get an old school, semi-lo-fi, accurate 50s/60s live recorded sound. I think if you can get that special "analog recording with a compressor mic hanging in the center of the room" it can sometimes be really worth it. It may also be worth it to Mic up your early reflection points like aim a mic at a flat spot of wall across from the amps to mix it in. But i think the key to getting that sound is - play your jam track through speakers crank up your amp to where it sounds good together and then place your mic in the sweet spot where you get clear guitar and some nice bleed from your jam track. Then blend them together in editing and add the early reflections if you want. And consider throwing in some 'bar background noise' for flavor in the background if you need to. Old school lo fi sound on the cheap is probably not for this audience though 🤣 but im wrong about lots of stuff
This is what I’ve been doing for the past couple years. I like plugins but they don’t play nice with my existing pedals. I’ve yet to see a rig where the plugin has an actual FX loop so the reverbs and delays and whatnot sound like they’re supposed to with some power amp saturation.
Have you thought about a iso cab? I love my Captor X, but i'm thinking about getting a quality iso cab and there are some that allow to quickly change speakers, which sounds like fun.
Software gets tones 95% as good as the real thing. And that 5% is worth the sacrifice to me for the convenience. You have unlimited flexibility with your tone at any stage of the song, and you don’t have to deal with time consuming reamping. Time is money, so if I can get mixes dialed in faster, and the sacrifice i make is something no average listener will pick up on, it’s worth it.
"impulse responses have come a long way" - just want to nitpick here a bit and point out that impulse responses as a technology haven't really gone anywhere at all since the 70s. It's an input and measured output from a sample, using the same file format and basic concept we use for capturing reverbs/spaces. I know that the way we consume and how much we have adopted IRs has changed a lot, but the underlying tech and its limitations hasn't really changed at all. IRs are inherently linear, and they can be described as just an eq curve, because phase and eq is all they're able to contain. There is no dynamic information at all. Let that soak in. You can use fab filter to create or mimic a cab. You can eq two cabs together. you can play an impulse into a cab emulator to capture that cab (I've used this trick a bunch of times to rip cabs out of my favorite plugins.) That being said, it is absolutely incredible what the results are, given how limited the information and concept is.
In a live or recording situation, IRs are phenomenal. An absolute godsend.
In personal play or at band practice, nothing can beat a real cab.
Context and practicality are everything. Be smart and use what makes the most sense for every situation.
I ditched speakers about 2+ years ago. After using the OX Box, Boss Waza TAE and Two Notes Torpedo Captor X I opted for the Two Notes. My ears thank me. Don't care about moving air. Every day when I play I feel like I'm in Madison Square Garden
I have to use earplugs and my tinnitus still rings like a bastard "pushing air".
Great to see you back Fluff. Hope you’re recovering well 🤘🏼
@@AA-bh3bzhad to have penis reduction surgery. Risky, but worth it.
I’d be super interested in hearing differences in the impedance curve. Like use same amp, same performance, same IR, just different impedance curve in load box
Mendel made a video like that comparing different reactive load boxes. It's worth a watch.
I've been cab-less on stage for nearly 3 years now and made that transition when I went to IEM's. For live use, the consistency of either using the fractal or amp + IR loader/loadbox is invaluable.
For home, I still plug into a cab about half the time simply for that speaker moving the air feel. For recording, I am mostly using IR's, again, becuase of the consistency.
I think a lot of guys that want to get into recording need to know is that it takes a lot of money, time and equipment to get a good recorded cab sound and even then, results can be hit or miss. Being able to ALWAYS have the exact same sound from an IR or OX takes all the guess work out of recording.
I've been using the FM3 and Captor X for a while now for DI and have an OX stomp unit on the way to hopefully be the new hottness both at home and on stage for my DI sound.
You make some great videos. People ought to go to your channel if they haven't already.
@@scottrrand37thanks for checking it out. I wish I had more time to put into the channel but a few years ago I got a new job that keeps me pretty busy and weekends are usually loaded with kids events and gigs 🥵
Amen, Fluff. I’ve been running my real amps through the Ox for about three years now and haven’t found anything that makes me as happy as moving air, except for it.
The tech is amazing now. But I’m going back to tube/cab after having a fractal for 4-5 years. They do an amazing job if you’re a touring musician and will save you money and your back. But just like you said fluff, there’s nothing that replaces moving air.
I’ve used Fractals for years and been down the Impulse response rabbit hole spending way more money than I’d care to admit 😂 Dyna cab has been a game changer for me, no more scrolling through hundreds of IRs.
Absolutely!!!
Are there any secrets to using Dyna cabs? I have found it hard to get a tone I like. Cleans are fine but crunch to high gain not so much.
Is dynacab exclusive to the aex-fx or can you use it with another plug in like neural?
@@EthanBurks its IRs, they cant be exclusive to any program. If neutral dsp can load IRs (I would assume so) then you can use them
Great video. Strong points !
I've been using a Fractal X-Load into an Atomic Ampli-Fire box for years. I just turn off the amp models in the Atomic and use it for Celestion IRs and some post amp echo and reverb effects. That's it. I still use some pedals on the front end of the amps. The beauty of the Atomic is that I have two outputs. I run 1/4" into an FRFR cabinet, and/or I run XLR into a mixer. Done. Simple. Effective.
After much experimentation I’ve concluded something similar. If you have amps at home - load boxes can get you very close to that full cab/pro studio sound. If you don’t already have several amps you are probably better off in the Fractal/high end modeler realm from home. If you’re recording an album for release and can get into a pro studio for recording that’s the best sound but not super realistic for most of us.
Loved this. Very interesting.
I use both mic and IR load. I have a house with a studio that has amazing preamps and conversion. Then a rented studio with some people I book hours in on weekends. It’s a shared space because money…but I work alone.
So I can do either or with pros and cons. The IR stuff I can just walk to my living room any time of the day or night and write, also it’s easier for UA-cam and you can’t tell in a mix imo.
Now with the live room studio I use, it’s fun as hell to blast ungodly levels, use my laptop to play back the songs I worked at home, re arrange and work out songs based on my live feel approach…it inspires me a lot. Also on UA-cam jams the live room studio with all the gear…Sky King, JCM 800, Fender Bassman, drums and so on looks cool.
You can see where I’m going here. I think it just depends on the process. In the live room with speaker, yeah I’m using wedges, testing mics, if the amp has plexi glass around it to sit better in a live context vs studio mixed if recording that way.
There’s nothing like playing your own amp, and it’s fun to play loud. But I think either way is suitable to make a song. I usually keep the IR tracks, and at the end go in and record a few real life cab takes for the song. It’s mostly dressing at the end…but no one really notices but me on the guitar once the drums, synths and bass are going.
However as someone who plays many instruments…drums being one. I spend a lot of time in the live room and honestly it’s overdub for stuff I did at home via programmed drums, and guitar IRs. Work flow is where it’s at and getting the song out. So I tend to start with IRs, and no cab to write the bulk. Then go into the live room to dress it up with cab overdubs for choices, and different mics, angles and so on.
If I was just to do cabs….it would take a long time. But also I do play live and a live room is a great place to see how my songs will mix in with my backing tracks..usually if it all fits in a live context it helps push the mix further when I get back to editing and have that live room take. If it’s fitting in playing on top live, it’s usually translating and I’m making small adjustments to bring home to mix. So it helps…but 80% of the writing and recording is on IRs and yes with a loud cab I may be inspired to come up with a cool new part I never would have with headphones and an IR.
Live streams and UA-cam…IR just makes sense once you have things locked and ready to go. No doubt about that! IR makes it so you can write more, faster and you’re at home…damn if it’s 3am on a Saturday. But some people like me, need to hear that last 10% in a loud mix band context. But still most of the work, ideas are done on a load box.
My JCM 800 2203X with my Anniversary 30 1960 Marshall cab is the BEST for live and recording. Is the sound of metal and rock...I love it.
🤘
I've tried a few and absolutely love the two Notes captor x, their dynamic IRs are unrivalled in flexibility.
Agreed. I have a dynamic IR Cab with greenbacks on it and have used it basically since I first bought the captor x a couple of years ago - it's actually the thing I have probably tweaked the least in my whole setup, it just works and sounds amazing.
@@jjsguitar I have the Captor X too. I agree the various GB cabs in it are so great....I bought actual GB's for my 2x12!
See my comment, I love Torpedo...I use the Cab M-Plus since my amp has a built-in dummy load. Best setup I've ever had and I barely ever tweak it. My fav is BigBeast 4x12 with V30's.
Same! Love my Captor X. Great piece of gear, you can load tons of IRs, including third-party ones.
I played through my Axe Fx 3 through studio monitors for a year and ignored my amps. I got a new guitar recently and the pickups just didn’t jive very well with the presets I’ve been using. I started tweaking on the Axe Fx, but quickly got frustrated with the interface, so I plugged into my real amp/cab/pedals and quickly got the sound I was looking for. So now I’ve been playing through my real amps for months and loving it. I’ll eventually get around to tweaking my axe fx presets, but I’m loving real amps at the moment.
I got hyper familiar with my 2003 mesa 4x12 cab, learned every inch of that cab, then a couple years later bought the two notes torpedo live, and profiled my mesa cab, loaded into my torpedo live and ive had the best of both worlds for 3 years now, zero complaints.
It's the "immediacy" from an amp and a cab that I love. No digital modeler or IR box can come close to that feel.
Great video Fluff. Now that you have talked about this I think the next step would be to do a demo of your process and the tones you are getting. I love my AXFX3 and have been using the fractal load box SIC for all my tones for awhile now. I'd love to see a real pro do it. Happy to see you feeling better and creating great content again!
One thing that made a huge impact in the way I feel my ampless pedalboard through inear monitoring is adding a light room verb to the end of the effect chain. This makes it sound more "acoustic like", or more like a miked amp would've sound, I even reduce the reverberation itself in favor to the first reflections to get just the feel of room placement. The downside is having to sacrifice an Reverb just to simulate the ambience of an amp in a real room, but you'll be surprise on how this simple trick can help (despite the fact that the moving air factor is unbeatable to be honest).
This trick doesn't substitute the ways an real amp react being pushed hard by a guitar, aspects like power sagging, tube and transformer compression, speaker asymmetrical impedance and dynamic reactance, it just makes your ampless system sound a little more like a miked amp.
Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. Hope you’re getting back to 100% after your surgery.
I love the OX, best of both worlds, attenuator to feel your sound, spdif to get stereo to the DAW and do wet-dry-wet
Hi, what worries me about buying the ox box is that a UA-cam company says it has problems connecting. And that Universal Audio doesn't produce updates and I'm afraid to buy such an expensive device and end up stuck with it. What do you think about this topic? Thanks
@@Avim111 I love my Ox, but the wi-fi connection can be really irritating. I happen to have an iPad i don't use for much else, so i just have that connected to the OX at all times and control it from there, meaning i don't rely on routing the OX through my home network. i wish UAD would release some more updates, but, all in all, it's such a great device for recording in my bedroom and environments I can't just blast an amp. I think it's worth it overall.
I have not done this personally on a long term basis, but the best tone I have experienced is the remote cabling and Isolation room method. Tim Pierce does this. His tone is insane! It should be, he's one of the top session guys in L.A. But you can't go wrong this way, but you need isolation space, amps, cabs, mics. Your'e right......nothing beats moving air. Oh lastly, a huge factor: fingers
I just play my 1x12 ENGL cab raised to ear level. Feel super immersive without bothering the neighbours. Plug it into 15 watt tube preamp , loud enough for recording and a drummer in small room.
I mainly use my AXEFX3 when I record. I’m convinced that in a mix, nobody can tell it’s an amp and cab sim. I’ve recently started experimenting again with mic’ing my 2x12 and my Marshall DSL20 using two SM57s. It does sound different but in this particular setup, I actually prefer the AXEFX3 in a mix. Granted, I’m a hobbyist playing in my home and not in a professional studio.
I agree with your perspective here when to comes to recording. I still choose to use all the analog gear since I have it, but for guys that don't or don't want the hassle (which it is) the digital stuff has come a long way.
That said when I see live bands it's generally pretty obvious to me if they're analog or digital. In the room the digital stuff is usually much more flat. I've seen a couple exceptions but...
Definitely need more, "This is what I've learned" vids
I have the Ox and will use it with my JCM 800 2205. Sometimes micing up my 2x12 mesa cab with a 57/421. With attenuator set on 3 or 4. Or sometimes just using cab sims. I was starting to not be inspired by the tone I was getting with the attenuator and the 800 so I decided to unhook the ox and connect amp directly to cab and wow! I was blown away by the incredible tone of that amp! I had forgotten. Even setting the master volume on 2 was better than the ox attenuator set on 3 to 4 with master volume at noon. Not sure how I feel now about the quality of the ox attenuation? Cab sim and recording silently is fine but nothing beats pushing real air with a fire breathing dragon!
I’ve done it this way for about 2 years now. My amps going into Fractal X Load into my Axe Fx 3 with the amp block off. I use the cab block for the desired cab or IR. It’s my preferred way, but I do want to try a Red Seven Amp Central.
I have used a lot of Virtual amps over the past few years and the biggest problem I have had is headroom and the way headroom behaves in a plugin as opposed to a real amp. I do a lot of low to mid gain stuff and usually with a plugin the headroom just isn't there so there is very little play in the level where things distort and a of the creaminess from your pedals just isn't there. However , like most people I am working on my own with limited space and not needing actual cabs and mics really helps.
John Nathan Cordy did a video on setting proper input gain on your interface to make plugins behave more like the real thing. This could help your headroom problem.
Tim Pierce and Pete Thorn actually have that kind of setup, with the speaker cab in the other room, mics, preamps, etc.
Pete Thorn also uses reactive load boxes. You can see them in many of his videos.
I've been using IR's for several years out of necessity. They are convenient, easy to use, silent (an absolute must when you live in an apartment building with poor sound isolation) and you have (almost) unlimited options, but I certainly miss the fun in mic'ing a real cab. I'm like you, I like using my real amps hence why I own a Torpedo Captor.
You can always make your own IRs with your own cabinets. Even in an apartment, it wouldn't be too bad to make them in the middle of the day. Sure, you will be running test tones through them, but it's not nearly as loud as chugging on your guitar, and you don't need to do it for very long.
@@justsomerandomguyman Making IR's would not be an issue at all, but what would I do with the cabinet itself if I don't use it?
I love my Suhr Load Box with IRs. Nothing beats a real amp for saturation.
The best sound I have gotten so far in my 20 years of playing has come from using real amps into a Two Notes Torpedo Reload and Wall of Sound. Nothing beats a real amp, and nothing beats a real cab/microphone, but I'll concede that load boxes and IRs have gotten so close that I've stopped caring about the cab/microphone part
If I'm recording my band's stuff, I go ahead and set up a cab and mics to get an original, unique(to that recording session) sound and take the time necessary to move mics and all that jazz.
But when I'm doing UA-cam, unless the video is _about_ a cab or speaker or something similar, it's IR's every time. The workflow and the consistency is so much better that way. And I just use a Torpedo Captor and a freeware IR loader with IR's I've made of my cabs. If it sounds good, it is good!
I've had a ton of people bring Kempers and AxeFX and Helix and blahblahblah into my studio. I've beat every tone from every one of those boxes with my cabs.
Every time.
...and it's a bummer.
I WANT to use the simple solution. I WANT to love that stuff. I WANT to get guitar tones I and my clients love super quickly and with no fuss. But it seems like I just don't know how yet. Good news is I'm pretty efficient with getting a good tone from my cabs and I have an iso room that does a pretty good job keeping the cabs acoustically separate from everything else.
I dig the X-Load option, though. Theoretically I could get a great amp sound into the computer, cab it adequately but quickly with an IR, and then recab it later (rather than a full reamp) if necessary with a line out of the interface to a power amp and a cab. I wonder what we'll be looking at in that case.
Have you tried anything like that, Fluff?
I have a Rivera rockcrusher recording and a great feature is that the EQ curve can be shaped to produce the tone characteristics of specific classic speakers.
No one ever mentions it since the UA Ox which is a real shame as it is a brilliant product.
I understand the wanting to use your amps, I totally relate to that feeling. I have not made the leap to IR's and the word on the street is they are very good.
I love all my Headrush gear (former employee), but when I want to use my actual amps (VHT 50/CLEQ, 5150II, JCM800 2205, Boogie Racktifier and Mark V / 25, etc), the Two Notes Torpedo Reload and C.A.B. M+ knock it out of the park for me. The amps still sound like themselves; Each one's unique character is unaffected. I still have all my cabs and microphones, because I hate to sell stuff, but I can do without them, no problem. Great video, as always, Fluff!
I find some duality in the statements of 'Nothing beats moving air' (which i do fully agree with and will further elaborate on later) but also stating that using an IR is way more effecient and doesn't sound that much worse that it outwheighs the effecieny (which i also fully agree with) but you still like using a real amp over using a real cab (which i don't agree on and definitely think it's more in the cab then the amp). Indeed i agree that it all comes down to moving air, hence why music will always be more exciting when played louder (which also translates to the louder is always better thingy in the mixing and mastering areas but also everywhere else. But the thing is. Music is ALWAYS moving air. So even when you record your guitar fully digitally (straight into interface, VST amp, IR, mixed fully in digital realm. You're still listening to it on speakers thus at some point in time it will always be converted to an analog signal going through speakers (moving air) into your ears. An IR (in the case of guitar cab IR's) Is basically just a Mathematical representation of how that specific microphone behaves in that specific environment with those specific speakers blaring a signal into it that your computer or software can understand and simulate on other sources. Ofcourse there are certain limits with this mathematical calculation and the abilities of your digital system (computer and software) to read, understand and simulate which can result in slight audible differences (argueable degradation of the signal) over time when passing more and more of these calculations (digital processing). However these same limitations could be presented in AD/DA in the first place. So this will also affect whenever you take an analog signal and convert it to digital or the other way around, thus also when recording a cab into your DAW and processing it digitally. Yes i am a big fan of cabs on stage, i think this is the prime reason people think modelers sound bad is because either the ones you heard weren't dialed right or they weren't playing through a power amp and cab. I learned early on that cabs and speakers have a way bigger impact on your tone compared to amps. Play the same amp through different cabs and speakers and it will sound widely different whereas if you play different amps through the same cab, well it all kinda sounds like a slight deviation of the same tone when dialed to reach the same. A custom cab and figuring out how exactly to mic that cab to get the best of it will have so much more impact on your tone then trying different amp heads. However i believe in the studio it doesn't really matter and you'll easily get away with IR's as long as it's a good tone in the end, same for big stages with serious level of PA esquipment and a big name sound guy. But if you really wanna go for your own sound, get your own cab with your own unique speaker combo and learn what it's best mics and mic positions are, instant secret to developing a signature sounds and sounding different from everyone using the same IR's (probably a v30 with an SM75 in there somewhere). The best live bands i've seen always had a loud stage volume and interesting cab combo's. and every time i hated the guitar sound it's because they're using modelers without real cabs. Find your speakers, blow some up in the process, it's cheaper and more fun then buying amp heads. Just find one decent amp you like, wether it's a modeler or a real tube amp, try to as much speakers as you can, pick your favourites, try some blends in different cabs, try different ways of micing it. Now you can swap out effects, guitars and amps, but you got that sick ass cab you can rely on. That cab is like your beacon of hope and light and will never fail to deliver YOUR sound.
Surprised you never tried the Two Notes Wall of Sound software for IR where they have different size rooms to put the cabinets, different mics with placement by drag and drop, as well as power amps if you want to use just a real preamp. I love it.
This man is correct.
A while back when I was selling a friend my old Two Notes Cab, he rolled his eyes and cut me off when I was explaining that speaker bruising was, and how regular IR's lacked it and was obvious even in a Mastered mix. Oh well.
DynIR have really made it hard to tell the difference in a full mastered mixed if a real cab was used or an DynIR was used.
IMO the Fryette PS100 is the best Loadbox+ ever.
This kinda reminds me of watching infomercials at night where basic things look harder than they need to sell the flashy new product.
Ive been using an inexpensive Line 6 for my electric right through the PA in the last few months. What I miss is the feedback that I can get with a Small tube combo cranked. Actually I played a gig with a hundred watt Katana and my pedal board and I was able to get the same feedback in crunch mode which shocked me being a tube amp snob.
The man knows what he's talking about...the ONLY time I've ever been happy with my sound is playing through a REAL amp (TC-50 head) into my Torpedo. This is the only setup that I've never felt like fiddling with settings or sounds once I got something I liked.
The Captor X has lead me to the same conclusion. I use a combination of modelers (HX) and tube amps at home: when I switch to the 'real' thing for recording, I go, "oh, there it is." But, with the modeling, I can put away the note pad and not have to worry about finding the correct settings if I come back later to work on a project. A healthy mix of both works for me. And, I just have one cabinet now - I sold the rest of them over a year ago and haven't missed them.
I'm using a Suhr Reactive Load with Two Notes Wall of Sound and DynIRs. Wonderful tones!
Great video. Thanks for sharing
Cool video! I am using a syn-2, helix rack for the effects and the OX stomp. And it kicks ass! Greetings from Holland
Hi, what worries me about buying the ox box is that a UA-cam company says it has problems connecting. And that Universal Audio doesn't produce updates and I'm afraid to buy such an expensive device and end up stuck with it. What do you think about this topic? Thanks
I’ve come to a similar conclusion. I’m much happier with the high gain tones from my real amp but for home use and recording I use a Captor X and it’s been fantastic. I just bought the modelled cab that best matches my real amp, set the mics and other settings, then removed the USB and never used the software again. No fuss, no choice paralysis, just (close to)my real setup only silent
I fell off of watching your videos for a little while... maybe 6 months or so, after having watched consistently since what...2011 or 2012? But here lately, I've REALLY been enjoying your videos. Keep 'em coming. Here's hoping your recovery is going smoothly!
This got me thinking - What is sound but a reaction of air molecules due to changes in frequency? More speakers offers more power to move more air, but it goes further than that. Each individual speaker is slightly different and those subtle differences offer more detail. The same can be observed when you double track guitars. The subtle differences of each take equates to more detail in the bus track. I use IRs for the convenience but to this day the best in the room tone I've heard was with a mid 2000s mesa cab. Since I need to be ready to track at a moments notice, IRs are the way. Also the ability to cycle through IRs during the mixing phase shouldn't be overlooked.
100 percent agree.
Tubes are everything. And the Ox box comes close to the sound of a cab.
Nothing can compete with the real thing but 95 percent is very close.
And only if you know what you’re doing w the real thing of course.
I've honestly struggled with both mics and IRs. There's only been a handful of times where I've just nailed the right positions with my microphones without much pre or post production, but at least my IRs (ones I made myself) are consistent and I can use them in any situation I want. I want to use my Triamp Mark 3 and not digital stuff.
I got a suhr reactive load back in 2021 and have used ir's since. But I still reach for a cab for when I want to crank it up and get the in room sound. Shows i've seen where there are no live amps sound generally dull with few exceptions.
Bogren's IRDX tech they used on the MLC sim really gives any IR I load some extra "oomph". They really need a standalone cab sim with that, shits huge.
I just turn the amp off and use it as a ir loader it does add a little something
I've switched to almost entirely digital, but I have the line 6 spider valve mkii tube amp, where they teamed up with bogner, and it sounds amazing. I've never been able to get the oomph (air movement) to feel quite right digitally. Even though I love my digital stuff, and it's like 96% of the way to perfection, the amp in the room sound is still irreplaceable...for now.
Agree with you. The convenience of IRs is hard to beat, and, of course, the flexibility and recall options they give you is just way better. Have you used the Driftwood or RedSeven reactive load boxes? They are the best on the market, IMO. The Driftwood seems to have a bit of extra bass and thump to it, whereas the RedSeven seems more neutral or balanced, but both are great, and it comes down to preferences, and those preferences might change depending on the amp being used.
The Suhr Reactive load is decent too, but its impedance curve is based on a greenback, and it's much thinner and brighter sounding than the Driftwood or RedSeven. It doesn't have nearly as much thump, making it perhaps not as well suited to high gain modern metal stuff.
I play with in-ears every weekend and it gets tiring. I always go back home and plug my guitar into my amp and it feels so much better.
I have the FM3, which sounded great before, but once Dyna Cabs came out.... total game changer. Not having to wade through and audition different IRs streamlines the process so much, and is super easy to dial in tones now. Haven't used real speaker cabs for two years and as far as practicing and recording goes.... I don't miss them.
Moving air=volume. Yes tube amps can sound and feel incredible at volume. I’m just a basement player. At the volume I’m playing at, a tube amp sounds no better than my Helix. I really like my Helix. I don’t know if I’ll ever sell my tube amps but these days I turn on my Helix about 80% of the time.
This has been the case for my home rig for several years now. Been going directly to a powered FRR speaker from simulated cab output of a couple different preamp options. I can't imagine going back living in an apartment. The whisper quiet volume allowed in a shared living space from a regular 12 inch guitar speaker just doesn't sound good. Can sound good at an volume through FRR speaker. Still using a cab for stage volume or at rehearsal, but only to hear myself. Going direct to FOH from the same IR output.
This is the biggest issue for guitar players today, I hope companies keep upping their game in the load box / speaker simulation space!
Loving these talking head style videos!
Awesome Video. Over the years Ive discoverd my personal nirvana is a compact 1x12 and a Captor-X. It gives me that "thing" I need to caputure a genuine performance.
I’m waiting for someone to make a loadbox with various impedance curves of common speakers. I’m aware of the Fractal one but have not tried it yet. My approach is the same where I use the Axe FX III for the cab and effects after the amp line out from the loadbox. What’s great about the Axe FX modeling is that you can change the impedance curve to match or mismatch the Dynacab. Those of us who still like real amps really need a device with many different impedance curves but I realize it’s hard to build a loadbox with all those physical traits to the hardware in one device.
The Boss Waza loadbox is the only one that has the selector. But yeah agree.
@@RiffsAndBeardsDo you now prefer the X-Load over the Ox Box purely on the loadbox/impedance curve side of things?
I'm good at making noise, but not capturing it. I will forever love the sound in the room coming out of a cab, but when it comes to recording, it's going to be impulse responses. Setting up a mic in front of a cab properly in a room that's not ideal and trying to record it well enough to sound good in a mix is a skill that often gets overlooked. My Two Notes just takes care of that for me. It's the easy way out and purist may shake their heads, but the listener (myself and the audience) gets a better result in the end.
I've been considering going down the Valve-Preamp-Pedal > IR Stompbox > Powered-FRFR-2x12 route for a while.
I'm not a gigging musician, but I like the idea of being able to play uber-quietly at home, but also ramp-up the volume when I jam with friends and want to be heard over the drummer. I'm also old-fashioned enough to want to get all my distortion from analogue sources hence not just getting an HX-Stomp and nothing else (which is absolutely what I would do if I were a touring player), and as someone who owned a 4x12 as a teen, I do miss having lots of air moving around me when playing, especially at low volume (I currently use a 1x8 and while it does quiet well, it's not the same quiet as you get from a 4x12 running very low)
I'd be interested in others' thoughts on this approach
Great vid. I honestly couldn't tell that you hadn't used a cab. And I remember you saying some of the tones on the dragged under records were plug ins and you couldn't tell. They album sounded fantastic.
But now that you've made this video. I'm genuinely curious to see you do a comparison video between using a real amp and can vs a real amp and IR vs a plug in and IR. Just to see how different they all sound
Try the Fractal (or Suhr) load into the OX Stomp if you haven't. Best of both worlds.
Hi, what worries me about buying the ox box is that a UA-cam company says it has problems connecting. And that Universal Audio doesn't produce updates and I'm afraid to buy such an expensive device and end up stuck with it. What do you think about this topic? Thanks
Don't worry, you can trust grandpa shill above, he certainly isn't being given free gear all the time, right?
Makes sense. Much easier and convenient to do it that way. AND, you aren't in a studio, so you can't push a cab to the point where it sounds the best, so this setup is the best sound as well. Win,win,win 😊
Attenuator. You should look one up bro.
@Rick_Johnson82 yeah... you clearly didn't get my point. You should look up reading comprehension bro 😉
UA OX has the best cabs+cone cry. This in my opinion is better than have the correct impedance curve, which you can set with eq if you know what you are looking for.
“Nothing beats moving air” - there it is, my Achilles heel. Certainly my preference for playing at home at a minimum
I have been afraid to give up my cabs. I am so used to the "Feel" of cabs. I use modelers into tube power amps and have really enjoyed it. So I haven't gone the rabbit hole persay of IR's. So this is interesting to me..
i cant even stand playing a modeler into my amp
@@poorman9259 you have to treat it like a "preamp pedal". Setting it with that mentality and adjusting it with a clean setup, it works pretty damn good.
@@TVoltG I get that, even bypassing the preamp and just running into effects return I always just feel like I’m playing through two things and I don’t like it, I don’t have the same feeling when I play one or the other
@@poorman9259 I don't ever run into any effects loop. If I am using a tube amp, I use the clean channel set the gain clean and volume high, the output on the modeler becomes the master volume into a couple 412 cabs. Sounds massive and even amazing at home volumes.
But using a Fryette Power Station is fantastic as well. Just used one the other day. Bout to get a couple for a mono wet dry setup.
@@TVoltG I’ll give the ole axefx3 a run through the front of my again for shits and giggles here in the next few days and check it out, I’ve always been curious about getting a power amp like a freyette but I didn’t wanna be stuck with it if I didn’t like it
Great video! and thanks. Making the changes outlined makes sense for your needs. I enjoy metal and I like clean tones, and I think the mfg's of "multiple amps in a box" have done an outstanding job for everything except clean tones. Regardless of the amp cab(s) in a box, clean amps sims don't stack up to the real thing. Sorry, I love MK V's but my fav is a Fender Deluxe Reverb and no one comes close to the real deal, they just don't. The UA 65 Dream pedal is just fair, but that's it. Fractal isn't close and neither are the 10 or so top options. Great 2024 out of the box video - Happy New Years - Cheers
With a lot of modern production nowadays, it's always a mixture of real and digital amps and cabs. There's nothing wrong with either or as long as it sounds good. If you love real amps but don't have the space or the noise reduction to mic an actual cab, a loadbox is always nice to have along with some good quality speaker impulses. There's also nothing wrong with just using digital amps, whether you're using a hardware digital amp or in plugin form. You can get it to sound close to the real thing, and you also have that recall ability. Whatever you want to do to record guitars, as long as it sounds good, it shouldn't really matter how you get that tone. Only guitar nerds or musicians care about realism versus your common consumer who listens to your music who has little to no knowledge about music technology.
One thought: I have the Ox Box and play metal with Mesa Mark V. With the Ox, you can send out the raw amp sound via spidf and use an IR in the box. Would this solve the “fender twin” impedance issue?
Great question. I am not totally sure it’s possible tho. You would have to know how the OxBox was designed
The impedance curve has nothing to do with the IR. It’s the curve built into the hardware of the unit when receiving a load from an amp. The curve is the curve and you can’t change it hardware-wise.
@@chronicnarnia but is the di signal captured before or after the unit receives the load from the amp? Obviously the x load would be after and I assume the ox box would be the same, but I’m not sure. Previously I put an RNDI DI box between my mark V and the ox box and compared the di signal from the ox and RNDI and I could not tell any difference at all. I will likely get an x load to try out. I want the best metal sound I can get, worth a shot comparing.
Hi, what worries me about buying the ox box is that a UA-cam company says it has problems connecting. And that Universal Audio doesn't produce updates and I'm afraid to buy such an expensive device and end up stuck with it. What do you think about this topic? Thanks
@@Avim111 I have never had a problem with my ox box. Once you connect it via wifi and adjust the cab settings and program them to the knob, it never needs to connect again. I rarely connect to mine, I don’t need to.
All I need is my old Recto with a pedal in front and a 4x12
the mention of the impedance curve is ingenious, however for live applications which loadboax/IR loader combo would you recommend? It is not always possible to carry a loadbox as well as an IR loader.
Modeling and Neural type of stuff are good and useful (I use them) but it’s just one giant glob of using out of necessity. I love using cabs and monitors at the same time along with the PS100 for attentiation and OX for the it’s modeling to my monitors. But my use is not for recording purposes so a bit different than what Fluff is focused on here. But for those who just want to enjoy the sonic bliss try it, it’s amazing.
Interesting. Would you do a video between different loadbox. Because My boss or my OX or my 2notes reload doesn’t sound the same. Like one amp, different loadbox, same IR. Should be cooooool
Amp sims have their place. But the feel and sound you get using good amps with the OX, It’s so good
I use my 03 Mesa Rectifier 2x12 vertical. V30 pre-China.
I play for shits more than anything else these days. I prefer my 4x12 to playing with headphones or through my studio monitors. It fills my room better. I don't need to second guess anything, or tweak and fiddle. Literal plug-and-play.
Yeah i think this is the best option if you are not doing any recording. The world of guitar playing and guitar recording are worlds apart, cuz the sound you hear in your room is nowhere near the sound you hear recorded. Thus the endless tweaking
We’ve been using ox for a year and now switching back to cab. For me, there’s so much more air and not overly compressed. Maybe just got it overdone by UA-cam and instagram perfect sounding and all very similar. Live much easier to use Ox. Just my humble opinion and my hearing
I do like your channel
Thanks for being the voice of reason!
My experience using digital speaker/ cabinet simulators is that the guitar tones are completely dependent on pa speakers and monitors, which need to be able to replicate sounds of the actual 212 or 412 cabinet.
I've yet to find a monitor that can do that without being inherently a 212 speaker cabinet, which seems to defeat the premise of not having to bring along a speaker cabinet.
Synergy pre-amps with stereo out into the Ox stomp for the win. :) JK, I ran amps through the Ox for a few years until going the pre-amp route. Ox Stomp was the end of the search. All solutions, while not created equal, are amazing and get tremendous results.
Very interesting. I got to an opposite conclusion that I can use preamp modelers and get the best results if the chain ends with a power amp into cab and mic. When tried real amp into a load box and then IR I got descent results but always lack some sonic dimension.
Great video! Another perspective: If you're working on a blues record and youre trying to get an old school, semi-lo-fi, accurate 50s/60s live recorded sound. I think if you can get that special "analog recording with a compressor mic hanging in the center of the room" it can sometimes be really worth it. It may also be worth it to Mic up your early reflection points like aim a mic at a flat spot of wall across from the amps to mix it in. But i think the key to getting that sound is - play your jam track through speakers crank up your amp to where it sounds good together and then place your mic in the sweet spot where you get clear guitar and some nice bleed from your jam track. Then blend them together in editing and add the early reflections if you want. And consider throwing in some 'bar background noise' for flavor in the background if you need to.
Old school lo fi sound on the cheap is probably not for this audience though 🤣 but im wrong about lots of stuff
Very interesting video- what studio monitors are you using to listen back on?
This is what I’ve been doing for the past couple years. I like plugins but they don’t play nice with my existing pedals. I’ve yet to see a rig where the plugin has an actual FX loop so the reverbs and delays and whatnot sound like they’re supposed to with some power amp saturation.
Have you thought about a iso cab? I love my Captor X, but i'm thinking about getting a quality iso cab and there are some that allow to quickly change speakers, which sounds like fun.
Software gets tones 95% as good as the real thing. And that 5% is worth the sacrifice to me for the convenience. You have unlimited flexibility with your tone at any stage of the song, and you don’t have to deal with time consuming reamping. Time is money, so if I can get mixes dialed in faster, and the sacrifice i make is something no average listener will pick up on, it’s worth it.
@riffs, beards and gear can you explain how you set that all up?
"impulse responses have come a long way" - just want to nitpick here a bit and point out that impulse responses as a technology haven't really gone anywhere at all since the 70s. It's an input and measured output from a sample, using the same file format and basic concept we use for capturing reverbs/spaces. I know that the way we consume and how much we have adopted IRs has changed a lot, but the underlying tech and its limitations hasn't really changed at all.
IRs are inherently linear, and they can be described as just an eq curve, because phase and eq is all they're able to contain. There is no dynamic information at all. Let that soak in. You can use fab filter to create or mimic a cab. You can eq two cabs together. you can play an impulse into a cab emulator to capture that cab (I've used this trick a bunch of times to rip cabs out of my favorite plugins.)
That being said, it is absolutely incredible what the results are, given how limited the information and concept is.
Can a tone x be used as a load box? What do you feel about the Tone X vs your set up with your amps and fractal ?
What about Mesa Badlander and Revv 100 that have built in cab clones and load box? Does impedance play a role in those? Asking for a friend.
How about the TwoNotes load boxes? Do you know what curve they use?