Darth Vader VS Yoda: Who Wins?
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- My totally not controversial take on one of the most infamous Star Wars Fandom debates of all time. :)
Check out my friend's full videos!
Jensaarai1's Vid: • Versus Series Redux: D...
Antoine Bandele's Vid: • Darth Vader vs Grandma...
I do NOT own the movie footage used in this. Star Wars is owned by Lucasfilm, Disney, and Fox.
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The Jedi being wiped out
Yoda in his swamp: vibing we are
😂😂😂
Yoda - "Only an experienced jedi can fight Vader."
Luke - "Well, why don't you go?"
Yoda - "Yeah, you're probably ready to fight Vader."
Luke - "Alright, here I go! (Gets hand cut off)
Yoda: here, bring this to your next battle. *gives luke a bag of sand*
Luke: what's this gonna do?
Yoda: You'll know when you use it. all you need to know is that sand is rouge, coerce, and it gets everywhere.
Ah yes ye old Family Guy Something Something Something Dark Side
Family guy
Wasnt it a part of Lukes graduation into a true Jedi
Vader was already prepared to face Yoda? literally days before, he was in training camp with younglings, working angles to penetrate small body types?
Ohhhh, dats MESSED UP
@@vt248 no that's genius
mr voice it’s both
Not only does that mean nothing, its arguable that thats not even Vader yet since he was still conflicted
You can't compare younglings to Yoda
I think alot of people discredit yoda and his stamina
He fought full out against sidious and managed to match him in sabres and disarm palps
Excactly, its not like either of them have bad stamina, Sidious casually stomped Maul and Savage and after his fight with yoda, he was stated as an old tired man
I know! And there’s no way that’s his prime, right? Like, you’re telling me that he dies of natural causes 20-30 years later, but, somehow, is still in his “prime” when fighting Sidious? FOH, that makes no sense.
Eduardo M. He was 900 year olds asf
@@eduardom.8766 his prime i think was like 200 years before that, so he was old as heck then to
Miquel Canosa Santeularia I mean, still old af, but the dude died of old age like 20-30 years later. So I just feel like debates like this should at least acknowledge that Yoda was past his prime when he fought Palpatine and still gave him smoke. (Which, IMO, suggest that prime Yoda beats Palpatine with mid to high dif.)
everyone thinks Vader is slow (not saying Evan said that) but in Lords of the Sith a twilek was amazed at his superhuman speed while running and also while climbing a cliff.
This is quite possibly the most evenly-matched fight in Star Wars outside of Yoda vs. the Emperor. I'd have to go with Yoda, but I wouldn't be surprised if it went the other way.
Lol Yoda would destroy Vader
Yah even yoda admits vaders that lightsaber skill is better but yoda force is notba game changer becuse wile power yoda hates using it offecnly
Vader is stronger then yoda in the force he has 9600 midecholrion and yoda has only 8000 Vader is stronger then yoda in the force
@@Zak-A wrong
DreamCatcher370 it’s not
Yoda says to Palpatine. If so powerful you are Why leave? That alone is the coldest sentence in my opinion to any sith
900 years of experience. Team Yoda duh!
Alicia Barnett ok no why? bc many young people beaten old masters
Yoda would NEVER fight the chosen one.
LeOtis Bennett beacuse the old Masters would not kill other Jedis
YODA SWAG GANG
CaptDeadPool vader is NOT a jedi. He was a jedi, but turned to a sith, and came back only when the emperor is shocking his son, so yes, yoda would fight vader.
In the midst of watching this now. This video has already impressed me. Well done Evan.
This is a thorough, well thought out, balanced video and the quality is as usual excellent. Well done Evan I very much enjoyed watching this and I'm pleased to see the increase in Sidious's power between ROTS and ROTJ addressed.
Thank you!
@@EvanNova95 I appreciate how you emphasize the power creep between Episodes III and VI, but the one thing I don't entirely agree with is your view on Yoda's power creep. Like many fans, myself included, you forget that after losing his lightsaber, Yoda didn't fight anyone. He showed Luke how to use the Force, but since he didn't teach Luke how to fight Vader with a lightsaber, Luke had to re-learn certain techniques after he lost his hand. Yoda may have grown more powerful in the Force during his exile, but I am not sure the same applies to his lightsaber skills. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's simply my two cents on this matter.
Once you realize Vader fights like a man who has nothing to lose, you realize why it's best to bet your money on him.
That means nothing. Yoda has greater skill with the lightsaber and better force abilities.
But Vader is evil so basically he can’t win because in the future he will lose because he doesn’t support democracy
@@-Extra_Lives George lucas saids otherwise
@@mrpastanicknuggets7269 Lucas was talikng about ESB Yoda, which is waaay weaker than ROTS Yoda, if they were to fight at the time of ESB, Vader wins, but otherwise... Yoda wins.
@@darthsidiousdarthsidious4589 I respectfully disagree, I still reckon he would eventually wear yoda down (bc of his age) bc vader was relentless and could fight for hours without breaking a sweat. I love yoda don't get me wrong obviously his youth self would destroy vader due to his pure speed and fitness but I don't see him beating vader from his ROS form. Yes yoda would land hits bc he is still quick but vader could still keep the speed up by augmenting his body to move faster with the force therefore keeping up, I respect your opinion tho bc yoda was a different jedi back then and more powerful but I still don't see it happening and vader also has something yoda doesn't. Nothing to lose, ik I might sound like a fan boy but I'm only saying these purely for facts, the pain the vader carries would make him and did make him never want to lose and that's damm scary.
Me: *Uses EvanNova's points as ammunition against his friends*
EvanNova: It's treason, then...
EvanNova didn’t say anything
Auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuah
@@nasiquedayes4805 *twirling intensifies*
I have been in 2 finals in my Facebook group going solely off Evannova vids. So yeah, I'm gonna use him. I took Satele Shan very far.
Good ol' fashion Yoda vs Vader. A classic
Ah...the good old days! Makes me want to go to my old school playground and beat the crap out of anyone who disagrees with me. lol
I feel like this is the Star Wars version of Goku vs Superman. Both have fans that will never give ground
The PriorStone And just like that battle, I feel that both sides will put great fights forward and both combatants can get a few victories.
I always assume Vader is stronger than Yoda because than Yoda could taken him out instead of relying on Luke.
EBros13 vader is alot by since yoda was training luke etc
What? Yoda isn't strong enough to face Palpatine, not Vader, thats why he needed either Luke or Leia, someone capable of challenging Palpatine with negative circumstances and still best the most powerful dark sider in history
Yoda is on Darth Sidious level of power, he stomps Vader, the reason he relied on Luke was because at that point he was wayyyy to old and he could no longer fight thought the prequels made this obvious
The Force no bc vader is 80% of a stronger sidious not the sidious that fought yoda back then
Yoda could've beat Vader even right before he died but not Vader and Sidious together it took Luke and Vader to take the emperor and he probably sensed that. ( Yoda at his prime was stronger and had more power than Sidious.
I actually think that Vader's stamina gives him the edge here. They both have very similar power levels, as you've noted. They're similarly matched with martial ability... It's easier to exploid an stamina weakness than a speed one, especially if we're dealing with a Vader who has already been adapting to the speed weakness by the time of ROTJ.
We`ll probably never get a good depiction of it now, but it would have been interesting to see Yoda in his actual Prime (assuming his 800+ years old version isn`t his Prime). He might be like 400-500 years past his Prime when we got to see him in action.
Yoda would have been able to beat a post Mustafar Vader, but only within about 3 years of order 66 old age caught up with Yoda severely after taking that blast of force lightning from Sideous.
And bc vader was getting used to his suit
Nope it was the fall but yea about 5 years out Vader > RoTS everyone
@@dontbemad.5435 In legends, Anakin > Vader, ROTS Sidious > Vader, Mace Windu > Vader.
Yoda can blast shit with very powerful force lightning. He just soaked up Palpatine's blast!
Thank goodness someone mentioned palpatines growth in strength
It's highly debatable.
@@DropkickNation welp,that's what we're here to do,debate
No way return of the Jedi Sidous was better then rots version
i'm still on Yodas side, i prefer him as a character and as a combatant, in my mind and from most of the things i've seen of him he's just a better fighter and better force user, that's just me
He wouldn’t be stronger if anakin was at full power 🤷♂️
LIL Ki11A Darth Vader is more powerful than anakin skywaler, Darth Vader was always angry had a suit design to irritate him and painful that rage fuel his power more and more anakin couldn’t beat yoda in my opinion
Kaze C do you not get what full power means I mean full potential chosen one
Kaze C Anakin would be way stronger than Vader at full potential
@@sexypeachmanforreal1428 but he is evil so at the end he is condamned to lose
17:14 Dear god look at Lukes arms, there freaking HUGE!
Another thing I was considering that would be in Vaders favor just a tiny tiny bit.Yoda would be unaware of Vaders increase in both Power/ ability/talent in the force. Anakin being mostly a swordsman leaning heavily on his amazing 5th form mastery. So between Vaders massive increase in force skill and his very different saber style, he might be able to surprise him enough to catch an early win. Still ….. it can really go either way.
Not to mention vaders incredibly OP force abilities when he REALLY gets pissed off
There are plenty of things that are ignored in this video especially with combat and thats vaders use of the force in adaption to the mixed 7 forms
I personally think vader would win because of his hulk (anger) abilities
Yoda must focus the force around him to fight properly as thats actually how he is capable to fight dooku in the first place whereas vader does not
He can concentrate the force to do other things whilst dueling with his saber
The force is like a power level. He would immediately understand the new found power vader had gained the moment they went in proximity of one another.
The only thing Vader might have is the fact he has learned new techniques. But none of which would be new to Yoda.
@@dikphukVader is powerful, skillful and nuanced. But there is nothing to suggest he could overpower Yoda with the Force, and even with nuance and skill there is very little to suggest he could pull any edge.
Yoda was the reigning master of telekinesis, superior even to Dooku, whose force tactics are not very different to Vader, and whose skill is comparable if not superior, but whose power is lesser.
Back and forth, I can't see anything Vader brings to the table giving an edge on Yoda, and I think Vader is too smart to delude himself into thinking that the Force would be his best bet when going up against Yoda. Depending on whose style you favor in a lightsaber fight, Vader would most likely use the force as a distraction or an interruption, but I personally can't see that coming to pass.
Yoda is too intense for that. Dooku was the second best at applying telekinesis in combat of all the Jedi, and he was so hard pressed he could not bring the force to bear against Yoda. If Vader loses focus or breaks his concentration to draw on the Force with enough strength and power to be of any use, there is serious risk that Yoda would capitalize on that and score hits, and if Vader creates distance Yoda would be very comfortable in responding to any force assault. After all, he could stalemate the Emperor, and Vader's force output, at the most generous, does not exceed that of the Emperor.
That's not to say Vader can't use the force fluidly or powerfully, he absolutely can. But his typical tricks won't faze Yoda and if he drew more intensely on the Force to overwhelm or undermine while they fought, I think it would open him up too much
@@gandurkThe Emperor in ROTS is Weaker than ROTJ and you should know The Doou Yoda fought is Weaker than the Dooku Anakin fought.
Yoda fought a day and a half battle with a Dark Side user with the same power as Early Vader and barely won ,this dark sider litterally had no control over his power too .
New hope Vader is stronger and more powerful, I believe Vader's control is definitely catching Yoda off guard and power too.
Vader would definitely exceed the Emperor by A New Hope since even as Anakin he was almost as powerful as both.
Sidious have equal or better force augmentation to Yoda?! Yoda forced Sidious in to a corner using his augmentation and made him rely on his other force abilities rather than physical combat. That alone is evidence that Yodas augmentation is greater than Sidious augmentation. Force augmentation enhances more than just physical strenght. Dooku can not contend with Yodas speed because he had to flee or else he would lose to Yoda. Vader did not beat Ben... Ben let him win by lowering his guard. It was not even a fight to begin with.
I've seen a few other comments on the topic, and it's worth pointing out a few things.
Darth Vader was more powerful than Anakin Skywalker, but had Anakin Skywalker not lost to Obi-Wan, his potential as a fully capable biological being would have far exceeded what he became. In other words, Darth Vader was stronger than what he was as Anakin, but not as strong as he could have been.
Anakin was brash and his hubris easily bested him on multiple occasions: His first fight against Dooku, him attempting to take the high ground, His assumption that he would be able to turn Luke. Assuming he tempered this at least a little during the events between RoTS and ANH, it was still a weakness.
Even though I think RoTJ Vader would win against RoTJ Yoda (primarily because it seemed Yoda had literally no energy left to give the physical world), I do think Vader was way out of his prime. He did lose to Luke as Luke used his anger to relentlessly attack him. And Luke's training was not near as close to being complete as Anakin's training even back in Attack of the Clones. Anakin had 10 years of life as a Jedi under his belt by that point. So a duel between a aged Yoda, prepared to become one with the force, and old man Vader would be an interesting sight to behold... Assuming Yoda wouldn't just pull an Obi-Wan recognizing that it was Luke's fight and not his own.
If we're comparing Yoda vs Anakin Skywalker, it's once again no contest, Obi-Wan bested Anakin and Obi-Wan was not as proficient a duelist as Yoda, and obviously arguably not as strong in the Force.
If you're talking Yoda several years after the events of RoTS vs Vader several years after RoTS, then I think you have the best comparison. Vader will have had several years of Dark Side training, and Yoda will have had several years of Exile. Both with their added benefits.
I'm still on the Yoda side of things, though I do believe a lot of people underestimate Darth Vader.
You should make a dedicated video on how powerful Old Ben Kenobi is, as his power is quite heavily debated amongst fans and it’d be good to have an in-depth analysis for many to see
Weaker overall than his ROTS counterpart, but with a much deeper and such a stronger connection to the force
I'd say he's a slightly less refined duelist than he was in ROTS due to age and lack of practice, but his increased power/connection to the force and newfound wisdom put him above ROTS Kenobi
The fact that Vader couldn't ragdoll him when he has stronger TK than Dooku speaks volumes about how much stronger Ben Kenobi's force abilities are
Regarding the Vanity Fair interview... Lucas is not exactly known for consistency regarding the lore of his own story, and I imagine he just pulled that number out of his arse. :D
It does give us insight to Lucas's intentions though. Vader could have been unstoppable, had his potential decreased, and ultimately, is inferior, but comparable to Sidious. Though yeah, seeing the quote itself after it being referenced so much makes me think we should stop directly citing the number itself. It was clearly an off the cuff answer that Lucas himself wasn't sure of, giving the use of "maybe 20% weaker" meaning that might be Lucas's lowest assessment of Vader.
@@desolatorstorm142 Lucas said that Anakin would e the twice as powerfull as Sidious (yoda lost to sidious) but after burned Anakin lost 20% of HIS potential...that means he would still be 1.6 x better then Sidious. but then he also said Anakin is 20% below Sidious power aswell..so yeah. he was pulling numbers out of nowhere
no5tre55 4me no5tre55 4me there’s no way it can be 20%. I know that his machinery should hampered his potential more than that. Since, the force don’t coped very well with machines that implanted with living tissue. I remembered, and correct me if I’m wrong. In the legacy books, Luke tried to reduce as much of metal materials in his cybernetic hand. since he stated that it reduces his connection to the force.
Edit: I don’t even know how Lucas got that kind of idea that he would lose that much
@@Grim_Kherac Yoda says "size matters not" and "luminous beings are we, not this crude matter".
While it must also be considered that the force can only be channeled through organic living beings, that implies that vader's loss of limbs should NOT affect his total capacity for power in the force. Unless a portion of his power is channeled into sustaining his vital functions alongside his cybernetics, the 20% thing just sounds like a load of inconsistent crap.
It would be more likely that his power in the dark side is impeded by conflict of conscience within himself, which stops him from equaling Palpatine. Remember that Anakin was a rising star, and was only continuing to grow in power with his connection to the force... yet his internal struggle between light and dark was, yes, holding him back.
Light-side, dark-side, it's always been about his struggle with both. There was no harmony of the force within him until the end.
It seems... At least to me... That if the duel were to continue long enough... Yoda's age would begin to slow him down. If Darth Vader knows he can't over power Yoda, he may try to drag the fight out long enough to fatigue Yoda.
I honestly do not see how this is even a contest. Yoda would destroy vader.
Shaun Rosenberg debatable
100% accurate
Right? He beat sidious or was even with sidious, Yoda wins easily
Did nobody see the video? The match-up is pretty close.
I wouldn’t say he destroys Vader, beat him yes, but Vader is quite a competent duelist and force user himself.
And now ... (bom-bom-bom) my thoughts. First off, I love Jensaarai and Antoine, and have utmost respect for their work. Second, I never actually put together the power differences between episodes 3 and 6, and find your take as stated interesting and informative. I must in this agree with you. Lastly, I consider, in my own opinion at least, any fight between Yoda and Vader to be so close as to be 50 / 50. I do not believe it would last particularly long, and would hinge on the slightest mistake made by either rather than one being beaten down, exhausted, or outflanked and "cut to pieces". I enjoyed this video immensely, and I want to thank you for it. Out here.
I agree 99.6% with the rundown of this encounter here. Yoda would most likely win this duel, not without great efforts however.
While I'm more of a fan of darth Vader than I am for yoda, I honestly do see yoda winning with the Lightsaber and force abilities, but it's definitely not a curb stomp. This is definitely a good analysis and shows you've progressed well over time, hope your life is doing well man and I can't wait to see more.
Also, is anyone going to use darth nihilus yet?????
Three years too late, but Nihilus can't really be used in a versus video (as Evan pointed out years ago). His powers make it to where he either curbstomps the opposition or is stomped in turn. Force Drain is his most developed attribute, and the rest of his Force powers are only above-average, while his lightsaber skills are also nothing too outstanding. If you can survive his Force Drain, he loses because you are likely more powerful and more skilled than he is overall. If not, you simply die.
Your arguments and analysis were appreciated. My opinion, if they were to fight 10 times: Yoda - 7, Vader - 3
Great video!
I agree
Well, you would be wrong.
Thank you we needed this you've hopefully brought balance too both sides of the arguments
This was a fantastic video which added to and expanded upon a very interesting debate. I stand on yours and Antoine’s side of the fence on who would win, but it is a close-ish fight. Yoda isn’t guaranteed the win. I’m looking forward to more videos from you and the other members of the Council whenever you release them.
I kinda want to see a colaboration, or Force Cast on the batitle, but I feel it would mostly just be restating points.
I love how half of these comments are just stating points that you directly argued against in this video, as if the people commenting aren't bothering to listen to anything you're saying. In any event, I'm glad you made a balanced analysis like this, in contrast to many of the extreme positions people take up on this topic.
InSanic i Agree. I’ve been called the Trolling master.. but even I get triggered when I see ignorance.
As Even pointed out, there's not much more to be brought to the table. So people are just pointing that they find one argument more valid than another
Well because it's not really worth watching I mean Yoda obviously would win
while I do think Vader is the guy who would never quit and the guy who was always getting stroner by facing tougher quests and I think Vader would win this duel I can't discard anything Evan hes pointed out.
no5tre55 4me Vader would win in Terms of power but Yoda would win in terms of Smartness on field
Great video. It was an entertaining video, and I'm glad I'm not the only one irritated by the Yoda VS ROTS Sidious being used again Vader when he had been already starting off extremely powerful, and was constantly growing. I do have some things I'd like to comment on though. 1. The Maul copy is shaky cannon wise. For one, it's pretty close to a hypothetical scenario to begin with and frankly uses what's a schoolyard talk "sith have power from hatred, so the stronger hatred wins" is what the comic was implying anyway. Second, it's within the star wars tales series, which has many stories dubbed strictly non-cannon.
2. You dismiss Star Wars the force unleashed 2 for Vader's force lightning deflection. Might I ask why? As far as I'm aware, there's nothing explicitly saying that Vader can't absorb and repel force lighting, just that he hasn't been shown doing so, which would make the game feat plausible. It's also worth noting that Tutaminis's ability to deflect force lighting is not related to proficiency level, but knowledge of force lightning, which Vader has. Luke failed to do so in the ROTJ novel because that was his first encounter with force lightning, and didn't know how to properly defend against it. When Yoda deflected Dooku's lighting in the AOTC novel, it leads Dooku to believe that Yoda steeped into dark knowledge. These 2 examples of movie novels would imply that Vader, who's confirmed to have both Tutaminis and the knowledge (but not capability) of force lightning, could probably defend against it (unless clearly overpowered).
3. Yoda is not ROTS Sidious's equal in force power. He's comparable, but not equal. While the movie is dubious, with some implications that Sidious is stronger (the pod scene), the novel directly states that Sidious has greater force power, and that Yoda lost the lightning struggle. Alternatively, Yoda is the superior swordsman in the novel.
You used a source to prove that Vader was the second strongest darksider of his era. That's not what it said. It said he had more power than any individual aside from the Emperor PERIOD. If you consider that a cannon source, then it's directly stating that Vader is more powerful than Yoda.
4. Finally, there's one comparison that I consider significant that you didn't do. DE Luke. Despite his excellent showings, only after darkside training and before their first fight, did Sidious compare Luke to Vader. Sidious explicitly said that DE Luke, the version that could at least fight against him decently, COULD become stronger than Vader, therefore, implying that DE Luke is, at best, equal to ROTJ Vader. This means Lukes feats directly scale to Vader, including the ability to fight an extended lightsaber duel against the strongest version of Sidious (although with a loss) and achieve a conditional victory, while also capable of at least scoring TK hits on him.
canon
Finally, someone with clear mind! Thank you!
Since the Yoda species die they disappear, there gotta be a time when like the dad goes to do something with out telling the wife or child and there like, “oh well he’s dead” right?
No it’s not their species that dies that way. If you recall that also happened to Obi-Wan, Luke and Leia. It’s the people that become force ghosts that disapear
Also at 10:40 (because I am sure you read comments on a video from a year ago)...a persons speed at which he strikes someone who is defenceless is going to be allot slower than striking at an opponent that is trying to kill you
The emperor would have been doing more of a lazy strike than a quick one
i realize we dont really have info for prime yoda but if there are any arguments to be made concerning when vader reached his prime one could only conclude that yoda would be at the very least have considerably more stamina in his
True but the videos depict them in their overall prime, not their physical prime.
Theres no evidence against Yodas prime not being in ROTS...
Eh, I'm still on Team Vader here, although it would unquestionably be a close fight that could go either way. I do think this is one of the most fair analysis of these two combatants against each other yet.
I do tend to think people lowball Vader's agility and overstate his weakness to lightning. Having robot limbs isn't THAT much of a handicap, and he is skilled with tutaminis.
Indeed. In many ways Vader actually has MORE protection against basic electrical attacks than most beings. Its only the highly concentrated ones produced by absurdly powerful individuals that give him pause.
If Yoda could've defeated Vader, than he would've. Vader wasn't hard to find, Yoda was the one hiding out on a swamp planet for 20 year's.
@@EvanNova95 I never understood why people even talk about LIGHTING?? I mean Obis wasn't harmed , he stopped it by lightsaber, yoda was able to wistand it by other means but mace expirienced full power of sdious and he did nothing to Mace-he blocked it with lightsaber..so why do people try to dismantle Vader by lighting is beyond me..it is like me saying Vader would just force choke sidious and yoda..nonsense
BTW subscribed xd..agreed or not on your conclusion Ilike how deep you go into this duel :) thxx for the effort
@@notreme Mace Windu's Lightsaber was literally being bent back towards him due to the sheer power of Palpatines Lightning, and this wasn't even Palpatine at his best.
12:37, um, you're wrong. Vader was a Djem So master and possibly a master of Soresu and Ataru as well, but while he incorporated elements from all 7 forms, that's not the same as being a master of all 7 forms.
17:39, nope. Djem So is already intrinsically weak against Ataru. Add in the factor that Yoda is basically the physical embodiment of Ataru, and the factor of Vader's suit limiting his movement and mobility, and you have Yoda with the clear but not necessarily large advantage.
20:01, nah, Yoda is pretty clearly better than Dooku, and notably so. The novelization and script for AotC trump the lower sources saying Dooku essentially fought Yoda as a a rough equal. And regarding their second fight, on Vjun, I find it ironic and hypocritical of you that you criticize others for omitting factors and context for Ahsoka, Galen, and ESB Luke's separate fights against Vader just a minute earlier, yet now you're omitting the fact that in Dark Rendezvous, when Yoda and Dooku had their rematch, Dooku was amped by the dark side nexus of Vjun, while Yoda was hindered by it.
So again, no, Dooku most certainly didn't do as well against Yoda as you believe.
29:23, actually, Yoda wasn't "one of..." he was THE most skilled and powerful Jedi of the Order's entire history. Luke is arguably the only Jedi to have surpassed Yoda.
I do agree with your conclusion that, while Yoda is the clear superior, there's by no means some vast disparity between them.
35:56, mind explaining this a bit more, because I'm SO not following. Why does Vader being in his prime in RotJ mean the Lucas quote about Vader now being 20% of Sidious' power pertaining to RotJ and not RotS? I mean the context of the quote in its entirety pretty heavily suggests RotS.
Props where it's due: I'm super glad you guys have begun to source your stuff more.
I see you speeding up Jen and Antoine's videos. Dem voices doh. XD
Just to answer your inquires in order:
1. While practicing all 7 forms and mastering all 7 are indeed different things, the only time the phrase "Mastery" ISN'T used in relation to Vader are in regards to Forms 1 and 7. However, given that he trained 2 high level practitioners of both art (Galen Marek and the Grand Inquisitor) is certain that his understanding of them is highly advanced.
Vader is also noted as a "Expert" in Makashi: static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4146240-vader+vs.jpg
Yoda still has a better understating of the 7 forms that Vader due to his greater experience.
2. Vader comes up shorter the Yoda no question, but his unique fighting style still affords him certain advantages like I explained.
3. I did mention the Vjun amp in the Force abilities section since it relates more to it. I my thought process at the time was that since I was talking more about technical skill than power, mentioning the amp wasn't all that important to the point I was making. With insight I portably should have least slipped it in, so I'll take fault for that one.
Addressing Dooku VS Yoda, while I of course agree with you that Yoda is superior my point was to showcase how a lesser DarkSider still challenged him, which he DID. We see Dooku parrying and reposting many of Yoda's strikes which isn't something that happens in a "Stomp".
“With a sudden burst of sheer power, Master Yoda flew forward, his blade working so mightily that its residual glow outshone even those of both of Anakin’s lightsabers when he was at the peak of his dance. Dooku held strong, though, his red blade parrying brilliantly, each block backed by the power of the Force, or else Yoda’s strikes would have driven right through.” - AOTC
Yoda even says outright "Fought well you have, my old Palawan." which he wouldn't do unless there was ample reason.
Yoda is superior to Dooku, no argument, BUT Dooku, a lesser Sith than Vader, wasn't helpless and as such neither would Vader be.
4. Agreed.
5. Well the way I see it is the flow of the power creep and the language used.
ROTS Sidious = ROTS Yoda
ROTJ Sidious > ROTS Sidious
Lucas says Darth Vader is 80% of Sidious in the Vanity Fair article.
The article makes NO reference to a specific era, however since the ROTJ Novel states that Vader was at his peak of power during the ROTJ Timeframe, the saying must in all likelihood apply to THAT specific incarnation.
“Lord Vader did not mind waiting, though, nor was he even aware of it. For it was an honor, and a noble activity, to kneel at his ruler’s feet. He kept his eyes inward, seeking reflection in his own bottomless core. His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been. It shimmered from within, and resonated with the waves of darkness that flowed from the Emperor. He felt engorged with this power, it surged like black fire, demon electrons looking for ground … but he would wait. For his Emperor was not ready; and his son was not ready, and the time was not yet. So he waited.” - ROTJ
Vader wouldn't stew over his standing in the DarkSide relative to the Emperor if he wasn't doing a 1-to-1 comparison at that specific time, which in this context is ROTJ.
Ergo, ROTJ Darth Vader = 80% ROTJ Sidious.
6. Thank You. One of my goals for the future is to provide a clear context to the things I'm referencing.
7. Yeah, there was a slight pitching issue during the editing, plus I wanted to speed them up for expediency.
Hope this helped answer your questions and I hope you still enjoyed the video.
1. Then what are the instances in which Vader is considered a master in all forms except, as you say, Shii-Cho and Juyo?
2. A more accurate statement is to say Vader's fighting style lessens the advantage Yoda has over him... because Yoda still has the advantage there.
3. I'm aware... however, you didn't include it in your point at the time.
Of course Dooku managed to challenge Yoda... the question however is how much. Given the sources we have, especially the highest sources, it's clear that, while Dooku can challenge Yoda, in normal circumstances he's still thoroughly outclassed. Their fight in the AotC Novelization demonstrates this quite clearly. And in regard to their fight on Vjun (and I might be wrong, but I think it's pronounced, "vYoon," like with a Nordic/Scandinavian J, and with only one syllable), it's rather clear-cut: even with a notably potent dark side nexus amping Dooku and hindering Yoda, Dooku still couldn't best him.
No, yeah, of course Yoda doesn't 'stomp' Dooku. I definitely don't support the belief that Yoda stomps the likes of Dooku. If Yoda were to go all-out like Mace did against Sidious however, yes, Yoda would then essentially 'stomp' Dooku. Needless to say though, that's outside the parameters of how Yoda operates. He's a Jedi through and through, and Mace was only able to cut loose as much as he did as a Jedi thanks to Vaapad and it allowing him to essentially do away with any Jedi restraint while not falling to the dark side. But I digress...
4. Can one "agree" to a fact??? XD
5. But... you just sorta begged the question. I'm still not getting the part as to WHY Vader being in his prime in RotJ means Lucas' quote must then be referring to that version and not possibly his RotS version right after Mustafar? Like, I understand the premises of your argument, and I understand what you mean by your conclusion. What I'm asking for is HOW your given premises lead to your conclusion that Lucas' quote is most likely referring to Vader in RotJ?
6. It's seriously greatly appreciated. I know I've been harping on you and I think others to source your info for a long while now (and I think you've been implementing it for a while too, but I'm just now really recognizing it and appreciating it). It just adds extra validity and credibility.
7. No, I gotcha. It was just humorous is all. XD
I did indeed enjoy the video. If I'm being honest, I wish you guys would make more. I miss the times when there was a new video each week from at least one of you guys... for the last several months to a year, maybe even longer actually, it's been closer to maybe one per month. I know Antoine barely makes versus vids or just vids at all right now. Grey rarely posts; that's not unusual. You and Jen are probably the most active currently.
And relating it back to you, I definitely disagree with certain beliefs you have (you maintaining your stance on your Hoth vs. Bane video being one of the main crimes), but I've noticed a markable overall improvement in your videos, both in presentation and in substance/content as of the past year or so, so props, man, and keep growing and making the content you want.
@@TinyTorah (Sorry about the late reply. Been a busy week, but I hate leaving long detailed questions unanswered.)
1. He's noted for his form Mastery in RODV, TFU, Soul Caliber 4, various guides, ect...
2. I suppose.
5. My way of looking at it is since Darth Vader considers ROTJ to be when his powers were at there peak, and he officially started down the Dark Path in the Chancellor's Office when Sidious christened him, it follows the he would be stronger in ROTJ than in ROTS. Not to mention that again, Lucas's statements don't directly refer to a specific era or film.
Lucas has a been of a habit of specifying era when discussing characters so the fact that he didn't directly do so for the Vanity Fair article suggests that he was referring to the broader whole of the SW films, in which case he is likely referring to classic trilogy era Emperor and Vader.
Finally, there is all the statements and declarations of classic trilogy Darth Vader being ahead of his ROTS iteration:
"Many years later, Obi-Wan and Darth Vader duel a second time. The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful."
-- Beware The Sith
"Once, he'd found the armor hateful, foreign, but now he knew better. He realized that he'd always been fated to wear it, just as the Jedi had always been fated to betray their principles. He'd always been fated to face Obi-Wan and fail on Mustafar-and in failing, learn.
The armor separated him from the galaxy, from everyone, made him singular, freed him from the needs of the flesh, the concerns of the body that once had plagued him, and allowed him to focus solely on his relationship to the Force."
-- Lords of the Sith
“This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words.”
-- A New Hope
"His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been. It shimmered from within, and resonated with the waves of darkness that flowed from the Emperor."
-- Return Of The Jedi
Hope this helped.
1. Simply stating sources isn't good enough in my book, especially since, in my experience, people (myself included) often misremember certain excerpts from various sources, or misinterpret the meaning of the quote. To clarify, I'm asking for PROOF for Vader being a master in the 5 other forms besides from Shii-Cho and Juyo.
What you did later on in your comment, where you're actually providing the quotes from various sources... THAT'S what I'm looking for in regard to this.
5. It didn't help unfortunately. I still have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. You keep begging the question, but I have no idea how to better explain what I'm asking, so *shrug* XD
Also, while I get where you're coming from, you certainly don't have to apologize for not getting back to me in an expedient manner or anything. I've been known to respond to things anywhere from weeks later, to straight up YEARS later. XD
Three things:
1.) One of - if not even - the best analysis I've ever watched regarding SW. Congratulations!
2.) If you urge others to not use your analysis as a tool for disrespect against your friends, it would be a better idea to keep your commentary regarding their content more respectful. Maybe I'm being too sensitive here but I did feel you ridiculed their views in numerous instances at the end, even though I understand that you most likely simply intended to make your commentary more entertaining.
3.) Should you have given us that information during your analysis I apologize but which Yoda are we talking about here? I fully agree that even prime Vader would ultimately be outperformed by ROTS Yoda, I just don't see a rusty TESB- and certainly not a weakened ROTJ Yoda defeating prime Vader.
I’m with Yoda. A lot of other analyses I’ve listened to have conflated Anakin’s potential strength with Darth Vader’s achieved strength. (Also, what I want to know is how strong actual prime - not 20 or so years from natural death - Yoda was; how strong was Yoda at age 450 or 600? I mean, he died at around 800-and change/900, which was just 20 or so years after he fought pre-prime Sidious?)
Dooku dismantled Kenobi twice on film not even breaking a sweat. And Rouge one Vader would certainly destroy yoda. Twice on sunday
Always enjoy hearing your analysis on Star Wars Evan! Looking forward to seeing what you have in store next time!!
You need to consider that is Sidious and Yoda fought only with force Yoda would lose that match in prequels 100%.
The things is that Yoda knew this and thats why he always wanted to enter a close distance combat. Vader was able
to stop a walker from stomping him with force. yes, Yoda killed a moutains sized beast, but so did Vader. Also todays vader
isnt same like on Mustafar. He knows what he must do, he wont act stupid, he would wait it out, use distractions with
telekinesis same way like Duku did.
Hopeful Dreamer I believe Against Yoda Vader will be a little Reckless because Yoda represents Everything Vader Hated
@@johnfitzgeraldkennedy4465 Nah. he wasnt reckless in rematch against Obi, he wouldnt be reckless here.
What if Emperor Vitiate suceeded in his Galactic wide ritual and how powerful would he be?
I for sure agree with you. There was always something about Jen's old video on this matchup that got under my skin, but I was never sure what it was, besides my suspicions that his verdict was colored by his distaste for the Jedi as a whole. Granted, this is based on years-old memory as I've not watched a Jen video in quite some time, but from what I remember, he personally had a (mostly understandable) dislike for the Jedi Order, and I often felt it seemed to bleed over into his decisions. Take that with a grain of salt, though, because as I said, it's been ages since I've watched any of his content.
This was a very well-researched video and I fully agree with most of your points and I think it's the most refined and honed take on this matchup I've seen thus far.
Also, because I feel the need to plug a future request, I'd love to see you make a video featuring Pong Krell. I just find him a very interesting and heavily under-used character from Star Wars lore.
Thank You! I sadly don't have any plans to feature Pon Krell at the moment, but I believe Connor has expressed interest in using him for his series. @@genderqueergorehound
@@EvanNova95 I know Caedus is on deck, but any plans for Saba Sebatyne, Darth Wyyrlokk (a fight between the "Substitute Grandmasters" would be amazing) or other NJO/Legacy characters?
If Yoda could defeat Darth Vader, why didn’t he just go after Vader himself? Why were both Obi-Wan and Yoda in exile for decades? Waiting for the right opportunity to train Luke as a Jedi knight. Why was Luke so important? I don’t think either Obi-Wan or Yoda had the power to stand a chance against Vader. Not necessarily because they aren’t powerful enough in the Force. But they are simply old. They are too old to fight. If the Empire was ever to discover Yoda and Vader went there to hunt him down, it would probably take a lot of effort, but Vader would still be able to defeat Yoda. In my opinion.
I personally side with Vader, though with EXTREME difficulty, but that’s just me
Zurround100 Well I agree that Yods is more skilled as a duellist but I feel like Vader could outlast and overpower him
Zurround100 Yeah though I feel like Vader won’t let him get in that hit, plus Vader has taken multiple lightsaber hits before and Yoda won’t automatically go for the head or chest plate and the longer the fight goes on Vader will just get madder and madder and more power with the dark side. Plus Yoda might be a better duellist but the gap isn’t so big it’s a stomp and Vader can always interrupt Yoda’s attack through the use of mild telekinesis like he did to Luke.
You know what I wanna see one day? Material for Prime-Yoda! Back when he was younger. It was hinted that he was even more powerful in his younger days.
The fight for me would be like a 8/10 in favour of yoda
@Zurround100 "an old but lethal martial artist that does not have the stamina to last for a multi round boxing match but all they need is one good hit to your pressure point and the street fight will only last about 20 seconds"
this doesn't happen in real life and "pressure points" in martial arts is far eastern fluff like tai chi and aikido that gets destroyed in seconds vs something like muay thai or mma
I change my mind on this one every few days to be honest
I feel like Yoda would win because Darth Vader is only 80% as powerful as Palpatene and Yoda is about as powerful as palpatine
Vader stronger than palpatine lol. That's how even a conflicted vader could kill palpatine. Palpatine can only overload his suit with lightning, shutting of his life support.
Also that 80 percent statement is not canon.
Vader could kill yoda and palpatine together if he wasnt weak to lightning.
Vader:I’m your father
Yoda:...I’m older than you555
I think Yoda would win mainly because of his mobility and Vader’s immobility in the suit
Vader isn't immobile, he's been shown to move at Incredible speeds when he wants to, such that he even surprised sidious and the royal guards in the lords of the Sith novel
cadkls Oh i didn’t know that
@@cadkls Suprised means that he moved faster than what they tought, not that hes actually on the speed of Sidious and Yoda
@@itsjonny1744 eexactly..he was faster then both
59 minutes 59 seconds. Well played Evan, well played.
Imagine young Yoda like 400 years old. He would vipe vader. If Yoda’s feats are this powerful at 800 years old. Imagine his feats as young Yoda. It was said in the comics by Sidious that Yoda would win against Anakin if they fought on Mustafar. Anakin was faster then vader and had unlimited movement. Vader having limited movement and not being as fast with the blade like Anakin.
Well, now we got Vader being evenly matched and eventually losing against an getting old man forgotten how to fight Ben. So yeah, Yoda around prime after RotS wipes the floor with Vader prime.
Vader is stronger than anakin, who is in the same League as yoda. Vader would win, easily.
I agree with jensaarai that Vader would outlast and overcome yoda, but I won’t condemn you or anyone else who thinks yoda could edge out a victory against him. Yoda is a tough old bastard and this fight could go either way. However, Vader uses his direct offensive force abilities against other force users in a lightsaber duel on a more consistent basis than yoda does ( at least from what sources I had seen). He also has the ability to withstand the few lightsaber strikes that would undoubtedly break through his guard, however, Vader has still shown himself to be able to withstand assaults from speed duelists for hours on end. Yoda would , in my opinion, would sadly burn out at the 20 minute mark, not because of any true flaws in his frenzy, but because he is not physically capable of keeping up the pace forever due to his extremely old age...and when that happens, Vader will leave luke skywalker as the last of the Jedi yet again.... I personally proclaim Darth Vader, Dark lord of the sith, the fallen son of the force....the victor
jensaarai is too biased against Yoda I don't take his opinion seriously when it comes to Yoda vs Who.
@@undead4500 That may be true, however, I still believe vader would win, but he would be in an even worse shape than when he battled starkiller in the first force unleashed.
@@kylemc2290 you do realize that the fight happened when Vader was not in his prime, right
@@silascraven I know that, I honestly think prime-suit vader would beat starkiller if there was no environmental factors at play (like the kamino battle in TFU 2)
I was just using that mental image as how he'd look at the end of the 1st starkiller fight as a good representation of the damage vader would sustain before finally taking down yoda.
So that means Vader would beat sidious in a fight
I believe that Yoda would beat Vader without question, because Yoda had the upper hand against Sidious in the early stages of their battle in Revenge of the Sith.
No battle Obi-Wan beat Vader at his best yet Yoda makes Palp run likea bitch... YODA WAS THE FORCE💯
I think the answer is obvious.
Martial Arts & Tactics shouldn't be one combined category in my opinion. Yoda easily holds the edge as a martial artist, but Vader is the superior overall combat tactician. Darth Vader is a brilliant military commander while the primary reason the Jedi Order crumbled at the end of the Clone Wars was largely due to the Jedi's hapless command over the Republic's military forces whilst under the authority of Grandmaster Yoda.
Despite the Republic's superiority over the Separatists in almost every meaningful category- numbers, troop quality, wealth, infrastructure, and combined resources -throughout the conflict, it was the Jedi's aimless military leadership which prevented the Republic from decisively squashing the Separatist insurrection. In particular, it was the indecision of Grandmaster Yoda that was mostly to blame for this. Count Dooku and Darth Sidious were much better suited to the realities of warfare, whereas Yoda and Mace Windu were too cautious and unresolved in their efforts.
Look, Yoda may have been a powerful Jedi and an excellent teacher, but he was a disaster as Grandmaster of the Jedi Order. He was oblivious to the reality that was being manipulated around him, and he wasted numerous opportunities by delaying. There were countless times throughout the Clone Wars where the Republic/Jedi could've gained the upper hand rightaway, but let them slip through their fingers because Yoda's stock reply to everything his generals reported back to him was that he first needed to "meditate on it" and take great precaution before ordering his next command. It was a flaw in the Jedi Order's command structure which often frustrated the Order's most effective field generals such as Anakin Skywalker, Obi Wan Kenobi, Kit Fisto, Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, and Ki Adee Mundi.
Yoda serving as the Republic's supreme military commander throughout the Clone Wars would be the equivalent of the Allies appointing the Pope as the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe during WW2.
Britton Thompson
There were far more factors to the Republic’s downfall.
The CIS were commanded by the biggest businesses in the galaxy, including the Banking Clan and Trade Federation. Wealth is nigh-unlimited for the CIS, and far more plentiful than the GR. In addition, the droid count is far more than the Clones.
In an additional point, ultimate authority goes to the Chancellor, so Palpatine could nullify any tactical ingenuity Yoda could show by directing the GR toward different targets.
Team Yoda
Is anyone we to identify that beautiful instrumental background music at 13:15?
And Evan, great video as ever. Always a joy to listen to your thoughts concerning Star Wars characters. Thanks ms for taking the time to assemble this video.
Yoda vs Vader is like the chicken or the egg: It's one of those arguments that'll never end.
If he hadn't loose his limbs, he could easily kill Yoda with a force lightening, because of the armour he wears is vunereable to lighting he can't use the ability
Didn't one of the books have Sidious tell Vader that Yoda would have killed Vader? Good video though!
Sidious always knew how to motivate Vader..Vader always succeeded in everything he was told he can't do
Vader didn’t beat Obi Won though, Kenobi threw the fight and dropped his guard!
BattlestarZenobia stop you know anakin could of killed obi won easily if he wanted anakin was way better than obi won
@@zarxy1x228 Actually on mustafar anakin lost that fight. Since anakin was all on the offensive and let his guard down. Obi wan won that because of his defensive style. Now if anakin won that fight he would of been the most powerful sith in star wsrs
I think there should be more "What Ifs" alternate timelines to the legends continuity, there are so many creative possibilities and it would at least somewhat give us new EU material. Imagine if we had a Secret Wars event where a team of notable sith from all sorts of timeperiods would have to challenge a Jedi equivalent or something like that, that would be a ton of fun.
Also quality video.
Agreed.
I love how amiable you are. Truly a well spoken gentleman. Love you vids.
At first, when I saw this video, my reaction was "this video is an hour long!? Ugh...", ten minutes in and I'm thinking "yes, this video NEEDS to be an hour long. There is much to discuss..."
Going to watch this next, but I'm still going to agree with Jensaarai1 from a few years ago. Vader dominates, but I think Yoda has a chance to actually win if it were Prequel Era Yoda.
Josh Davison you should watch Antoine’s response to Jensaraii
Yoda beats Vader
Ain't that the truth.
Vader seems the obvious winner since it otherwise makes the training of Luke and Yoda's exile pointless.
Yoda in his prime can kill vader because Vader's movements are limited by his suit and he also lost his limbs means his midichlorian count is lower.
But the 900 year old yoda that is so old cannot.
I don't think so, because in actuality grandmaster Luke was what Anakin could have been in a certain potential and guess what, he was way stronger then what Yoda could have ever been. Prime Vader, which is Vader from ROTJ, he was on par with grandmaster Luke, and if Vader and grandmaster Luke would fight to the death, it would be close. ESB Vader is Luke's hardest fight in his entire life, and he had gone up against some bad guys in his time of being grandmaster, as being his son, he understood his potential power and he understood that he never sought to kill him. Luke would have died in ESB and in ROTJ if it weren't for his conflicts with his emotions or his plans to overthrow the Emperror.
Lol. If we're taking games as factual TPM Kenobi > Koon.
The games were S-canon so gameplay footage was not canon. The story happened just not how it was exactly played.
Or TPM Obi Wan>Mace, as he beat him in a sparring match in the Obi Wan video game
Actually if you watch the cutscenes Mace only compliments Kenobi's skills.
Koon however confirms Kenobi won and concedes inferiority.
Remember gameplay itself is not canon, only the cutscenes are.
I’m only 8 minutes in, and I’m watching til the end, but I’ve already found (what I’d consider) a flaw ....Vader’s suit was intentionally designed with a weakness to force lightning, so doesn’t that automatically give Yoda a big advantage? In theory, all Yoda needs to do is blast Vader with prolonged force lightning to win. I do hope you cover that, as that is one of Vader’s major handicaps. And after I finish this video, I’m gonna look to see if you have a Dooku vs Vader, because that’s an interesting one to me. We all know how strong Vader is, buuuuttt the whole lightning issue, and Dooku’s use of Makashi seems like Vader wouldn’t win against Dooku.
EDIT: I really liked that you flat out told people you wouldn’t tolerate any attempt to use your words to disrespect your friends!!! Friends absolutely should be able to debate a topic! Doing so doesn’t mean you’re not friends or you’re insulting each other. Those of us who are adult enough to know that, understand that you meant no disrespect, and no one should use either point of view to bash the other.
Dude, Yoda was on the light side of the force. He would not use force lightning because that is a purely dark side ability that needs the user to feel an intense level of anger and hatred or uncontrolled dark side abilities due to a lack of training. To put it shortly, Yoda wont use force lightning against Vader because Yoda was a light side force being and didnt have the requirments to use the ability.
If Vader has 80% of a stronger version of the Emperor who formerly was equal to Yoda in power, the Emperor would only need to be 25% stronger for Vader to be equal to Yoda in power. I think that is very likely as Vader continually is being shown to do greater and greater feats as more works come out depicting his power. In particular, in the recent Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order, Vader holding back that flood of water while in an underwater facility on the particular planet he is on, is his greatest force feat yet. I am doubtful if Yoda has ever held back that much force before with telekinesis. An analysis of the feat estimates Vader is pushing approximately 136.5 million kg in weight away with his force powers. This is likely his upper limit as he is so distracted performing this feat that the target he is after is able to flee unhindered.
I believe yours is the closest opinion to mine in terms of Yoda vs Vader, regarding Jensaarai1 and Antoine Bandele. Great video, great discusion, great rebutal... there's been an awakening in the Force thanks to this video
26:01 is that a hut with a lightsaber????
O I Won DID NOT LOSE! He gave up his energy to strengthen Luke!
Vader lost to Obi-Wan who didn't touch the Force or a Lightsaber for 10 yearits safe to say Yoda would have crushed him like a tin can
I really liked this video . You show cased your opinions in an interesting way and since this has been debate
D to death by the fandom you cut through to the heart of the matter.
He's back!!!!!!!! He's back!!!!!!!!!!!
Love This channel!!!!!
Yoda all the way for me. Probably 9 times out of 10, he is just too much for Vader to deal with imo.
Like Vader comment yoda
I’m definitely inclined to disregard the statement of Plo besting Yoda, especially looking at the passage in Maul: Shadow Hunter which describes Yoda besting 3 council masters simultaneously whilst he was unarmed.
I would agree. Outliers are a thing in Star Wars and I would address this as one of those outliers.
The Grand Master
I'd say Yoda can tax Vader the same way Anakin pushed Dooku to his limits. Yoda's physical augmentation doesn't have as many physical lifting showings as Vader but even if his strength isn't on Vader's level it's close and his speed is definitely above his.
Vader is more durable but as Antoine noted in his video on the matter it wouldn't matter with lightsabers involved.
I'm not sure Ben Kenobi is on Dooku's level. He's likely below around Fisto.
9:11 Sidious was likely referring to Vader when he was Anakin.
12:22 This was Maul past his prime. I honestly could see SOD Maul taking a majority against ROTJ Vader. Possibly.
13:13 As Antoine made note of in his video there is a HUGE gap between them as Vader is around 80% less of Sidious who was an equal to Yoda.
14:25 Did you mean Makashi faints?
15:30 For me Vader isn't a top level duelist by Lucas's word and other sources such as fight saber.
17:17 This isn't the best example of this since this is Yoda having not fought with a saber for over 20 years.
20:10 In LOE Dooku reflects how he could've fought Yoda for longer if he didn't have to get the Death Star plans out of there.
20:27 I would say ANH Kenobi is vastly inferior to ROTS Kenobi. He's overall weaker and far past his prime.
21:41 Yeah Plo Koon's victory over Yoda was likely thrown in there for Filoni.
22:28 Lol
23:10 A doubt that as previously mentioned.
23:50 Agree with the martial arts edge.
25:20 That was only in close proximity to a Force enhancing artifact.
28:43 In terms of raw power Yoda is factually above Vader as I previously brought up.
29:53 Anakin does have TK showings on Yoda's level as of ROTS although the intention behind them is tough.
34:00 Even if Dooku's inferior to Vader in power it's not by much.
34:27 Yeah the nexus is what I was gonna say.
35:55 What specifically do we have that makes Lucas talking about which version of Sidious?
36:52 Agreed.
37:17 Young Yoda in his prime would destroy Vader. ROTS was technically not his prime.
38:07 I agree Yoda > Vader but I'm with Antoine in that it'd be more decisive.
38:40 Mace and Dooku is debated as their one fight was incomplete and Dooku was already retreating when Mace got to him.
43:25 Head to head also has Han Solo > Jango and Chewbacca > Grievous so it's not very valid.
46:52 Still aren't sure how Vader has grandmaster output.
49:16 Vader's helmet can be knocked off however.
51:55 Still doesn't mean Yoda's skill didn't decrease. I doubt ROTS Yoda would've fallen for the trick as he'd have a lightsaber to deflect the throw.
For the commentary section the disagreements I have are things I already brought up with power scaling.
Overall a fun video.
Yoda beats Vader, and in the fight between Anakin and Dooku, do you mean when Anakin held himself back, or when he decided he wanted to win by realising his fury? Both are above Dooku, but one made all of Dookus power and knowledge a joke.
ItsJonny Even when Anakin was holding back he was pushing Dooku to his limits. When Anakin used his furnace heart the fight became a joke.
@@TheNuisanceBird I know that Anakin was pushing Dooku to his limits when holding back. It is such a good feat for Anakin, as even without giving into his hatred, hes still pretty far from a Dooku tier duelist
Would Anakin Skywalker and Darth Tyranus have been amped and Obi-Wan Kenobi hindered by Palpatine's presence aboard the Invisible Hand, given that the novelization of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi hinted that Palpatine was a nexus of the Dark Side of the Force?
@@CulturalMarxist4985 nah since Palpatine was activly hiding his presence
Yoda being the qual of Sidious midichlorian count being 100% and vader being 80% i think vader lose. Yoda fighting dooku and Palpatine never made Yoda tapping to the dark side to beat them. Anakin beating dooku and many jedi is because he tapped into his darkside abilities. Imagine if Yoda fought while tapping into the dark side
It is about time someone gave me the respect I deserve and stopped low-balling me!
Vaders "victory" against Ben Kenobi in IV A new hope, should not count since Ben chooses to give him the victory and move on into the force and "become even stronger"rather than continue fighting Vader. We dont know that Vader would have won that duel if it was for real.
Lucas Holmberg But the part where Ben cannot use force to push Vader into the wall literally means he’s gonna lose to Vader
Vader’s force can easily smack Ben into the wall bro
@@Phoenix-fw7bm You're simply ill informed. Konrad Curze can't be moved by Any's finger neck pinches. He'd lightning claw that fool so hard he'll go back to being torso-boi.
Unfortunately we really can’t compare. We have never even seen Yoda in his prime. Maybe one day
Yes we have. That is his prime dude. Maybe not his physical prime but physical prime and overall prime are not the same.
@@kingorange7739 nope.
Cliff Booth what do u mean no?
@@kingorange7739 revenge of the sith was not his physical prime
@@kingorange7739 Or his prime in general
Obi-Wan Kenobi didn't die in the fight against darth vader. He knew he couldn't fight for long due to his old age so he decided to become one with the force. That's why he dissapeared instead of getting cut in half
Vader is a dark lord of the sith you can't mess with him
The interesting thing about the Lucas quote is that Lucas also confirms in it that Luke = Anakin in terms of force potential
I only have 59:59 available
One of your best so far. Excellent job, Evan.
Dude what a great video. Always enjoy watching. May the force be with you.
Even Sidious couldn't beat Yoda, how so Darth Vader? In the 2 Yoda vs. Sidious fights, Sidious had always been on the defensive and was always on the run. In both times, Sidious only escaped Yoda. In all his other duels, Sidious had always been an offensive juggernaut. The fact that he can't do this to Yoda and in fact, Sidious was forced to fight completely against his normal style simply shows that Yoda far surpasses him in lightsaber skills. TBH, I don't understand why so many doesn't get this.
Moreover, if both Sidious and Vader became stronger after Order 66, I don't see why the same won't apply to Yoda.
And btw, Vader never beat Obi Wan. Only an idiot would think Ob Wan was beaten by Vader in the New Hope. If someone disables his lightsaber, closses his eyes and practically invited you to strike him down, that's not beating him. Obi Wan had no intention to beat Vader in their battle as he knows it was not his role to do so. He wanted to be stricken down by Vader as it is his path to becoming one with the force. He even mentioned this fact at the beginning of their duel.
True
I would love to see yours (and even Jensaarai's and Antoine's) opinion on Vs Battle Wiki's analysis regarding the power levels of the Star Wars characters. Particularly Legends.
Aside from that, great video and 100% agree on it's outcome.
Thanks man this was exactly what I was looking for while I washed dishes cooked and ate ! Good video 🥇🤜🏽🤛🏽
If this is Canon then no one is a match for Vader on even ground and in his zone be it with force powers, lightsaber skills, and physical abilities yeah.