I’ve been enjoying the AM5. Its weak point is the altitude adjustment for Polar Alignment. The iOptron mounts appear to have a better adjustment for that
Tell me about it - the PA adjustement controls need significant improvement. I have had mine for a year and probably has about 800-1000 hours on it. Lately I have noticed that I can get PA down to about .50" of error, but when you tighten everything down, it can jump up to over 2" of error. Very frustrating and a waste of time. My buddies with CEM40s just turn a couple knobs and are done with PA in a couple minutes...
You may be interested in the UMi by Meow Astro. It's a strain wave mount driven through onstep that, at least spec wise, should actually outperform the am5, and sells for around $1300 USD, not counting shipping. They are a small company based out of China, so it's somewhat risky, but they've been doing a good job in terms of customer support so far, going as far at to provide testing data on your mount before it ships as well as trouble shooting. Likely, i hope that this means strain wave mount prices will drop soon.
@@mattysastropics I can't personally say since I use Kstars and NINA, but I did see that Cuiv tested out the UMi 17 Lite using an ASI Air, so I believe it works now.
I think more geared (pardon the pun lol) for mobility. If I were to drop that much on a new mount today, I think Id go with a larger EQ mount that offered better tracking and payload capacity for longer focal length setups. But If I were always moving with my mount to remote sites, and star parties, I think Id be really interested in a strain wave harmonic drive mount. Ease of setup, and lack of counterweights is a huge plus. Right now, what really has my attention is the recently released Sky-Watcher CQ350 Pro mount. It really seems to fill the void between the EQ6 class mounts and the EQ8 class. Thanks for putting in all the legwork here. Great vid.
Great video. Thank you! I am getting into this hobby and I am completely confused on which mount to buy... complete newbie . Trying to decide between: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro Computerized Equatorial Mount iOptron HAE43 Dual AZ/EQ SWG Mount with iPolar iOptron CEM40 Center Balance Equatorial Mount with iPolar, Hard Case and 1.75" LiteRoc Tripod ZWO AM5 Harmonic Drive Equatorial Mount and Tripod - but this one, I am almost certain that it will drop off my list... only because of weight capacity... not sure what I will end up with in terms of equipment and would like a mount that can grow with me if I decide to change/upgrade to any OTA that is heavier...
Hi there. Yes, you have a nice wish list. I wrote a blog about advanced mounts here: astroforumspace.com/top-10-advanced-telescope-mounts-for-astrophotography-in-2023/ Perhaps useful. As for the ZWO AM5, I did test it with an Edge HD 8" with a .7 reducer and autoguiding for deepsky and it did the job. Anything heavier or bigger may be better off on the skywatcher EQ6R Pro. That's a very stable, classic GEM, but obviously a lot heavier and you'll need to add counterweights. I still use both mounts.
Like you I find my guiding numbers are just as good with my edgeHD8 and AZ-EQ6 mount I’m easily getting sub 1 arc second. So the only real benefit would be portability. But then I’ve also heard of instability issues with Harmonic mounts. Where people have had to add weights etc to anchor them down. This is the main reason I stayed with a traditional EQ mount when I upgraded last month
I have an AM5 with the CF tripod and I put 10-15lbs of sandbags in the pouch when I put anything larger than a small refractor on the mount. I also owned an EQ6 and I would much rather deal with some sandbags than a 40lb mount head made of solid aluminum.
I have an AM5 and in decent seeing conditions, I can get down to .35" RMS with an OAG. I typically image between 300mm-600mm, but I recently took ownership of an EdgeHD 8. Imaging at 1400mm has presented a bit of a challenge in that the extra weight and bulk of the scope has pushed that number up to .70" RMS with similar seeing conditions - and that is with the counterweight. Additionally, if there is ANY wind, those numbers go well past 1.0" and the subs are trash. Consequently I am considering getting a heavier mount like a CEM40 or EQR6 to have for less than ideal conditions when I want to shoot at 800mm or longer with my current scopes. My other option is to BIN my camera (2600MC & MM), but that defeats the purpose of shooting longer focal lengths in my opinion.
For the last two weeks I've been nursing a bad back from lugging my EQ6 mount head up over the side and into the camping cart during the strip down (after a couple of hours sitting in the cold). Luckily I have a wheelchair and crutches readily available to help with the aftermath of such careless behaviour. So I'm absolutely fine with the attractive concept of a fraction of the weight, just not convinced on the spend, while I already have a perfectly functional (18 year old) mount. If I don't move house and build a runoff observatory, then at some point an AM5 will be my upgrade. Most of the others are unjustifiably expensive for my circumstances.
Aiaiai. I once tried to drag my EQ6R pro up to my rooftop with a bad knee and only using a small ladder. First and last time...I'm glad to have survived that endeavour:-). Happy holidays!
I use mostly an EQ8 and a 7inch Mak. In summer, I plan to buy an additional mount, so I can put my 10inch on the EQ8. I(61) try to get a harmonic life with my young gf.(28). It is not so easy. Thank you for an excellent video. I hope now for a big strong improvement.
Great comparison of the predominant harmonic mounts that are out there now, Wido! Thanks for that. I have the AM5 and it's fine for me in terms of portability and with my scopes less than 800mm fl with typical guiding accuracy between 0.4-0.8". However, I think that if I was to put a more permanent setup at home and/or use a longer fl scope I'd look for alternatives, either harmonic drives having encoders or a more mainstream mount. Thanks again and have a very Mery Christmas!
Hi Greg, great to hear your am5 is performing well! I'm actually considering that mount as well to take with me on holiday trips merry Xmas and a happy 2023!
Hello Wido. I have been a happy user of a ZWO AM5 since July (I pre ordered it in December last year). The simple facts of not having to carry the counterweights and not having to balance the mount are really game changers. As for the precision, it seems to be somewhat dependant on the load you put on the mount, ranging from .2 arc seconds with my Takahashi 60 to .8 arc second with my 8’ Edge HD, which is still good enough to get pinpoint stars with 2 minute exposures. And yes, believe me, the fact of just having to put the Edge HD on the mount, polar align and be ready to shoot meant that I used this OTA much more often this year. So definitely a worthy investment.
I ordered the AM5 a few days before I saw your review. Haven’t had a chance to use it yet, but will let you know. I was becoming concerned that my new SCT 9.25, with the long imaging train I put on it, was staining tfe capacity of my AVX, even though it’s long been paired and sold with that mount. The “so-so” tracking of the AVX was also going to make a bigger difference with the 9”. But with the 23 pounds of the SCT, I also wasn’t inclined to pile on a bulky mount with it. I’m getting older and my joints protest much more loudly than they used to when I challenge them. Also, given that my next scope down the road will likely be a smaller refractor for deep sky, the AM5 struck me as a promising pick. But the more I read, the more reservations seem to pop up about the AM5’s tracking. So, I know I’ve taken a bit of a risk. Will let you know how it turns out.
Hi Dough, thanks for sharing. I'm probably going to test that mount myself with my 8 inch at long focal length 😀. Let's hope for the best and a happy 2023.
There is a video on UA-cam showing how to thread the AM5 into the AVX tripod for more stability with heavier scopes, The carbon tripod it comes with is, according to the gentleman who made this visie, not optimal for big payloads, so someone at ZWO gave him this tip, . I’ll also go ahead and put the counterweight on the AM5 just to ensure the payload is stable. Happy 2023, and as always, thanks for the incredibly informative reviews!
I trialled AM5 for my 8”SCT with (and without) focal reducer 0.63 so basically 1300 - 2000 mm focal length. It was a disaster using my OAG. The need to set autoguide exposure to 0.5s-1.0s with these mounts meant i rarely (if ever) had good guiding stars. Now, without guiding i can get 60s image subs with my AZEQ6. With the AM5 it was challenging above 20s. On balance i agree with ZWO that any scope with FL larger than 1000mm needs to think carefully about the benefits of portability (using a separate autoguider) and its never attractive at around 2000mm (using OAG) imho.
I always do autoguiding with my 9.25 EHD (1645mm), but I do use a ZWO OAG L with the large prism and a 174MM guide camera. I haven't had any problems finding a star yet. But with those short shutter speeds that the AM5 requires, you may be right that it becomes a bit more difficult. I used to have my SCT on my EQ6R, and I found it struggled with this long focal length. The RMS value of guiding may be a good point of reference, but it doesn't say it all. If your peak to peak corrections are higher than the resolution of your system, you cannot expect perfect stars.
As a travel, or remote mount at moderate FLs, they are a very attractive proposition .. Im currently running a GT81 on a CEM40 which is fine for remote work but I might struggle to go abroad
Yep, a smaller APO refractor is the perfect match for these strain wave mounts I think. I'm tempted to get one and just test it to its max. capacity, perhaps I will :-)
Thanks for this, Wido. I'm looking to upgrade to an eq mount. I've had my eye on this. I'm just waiting for further feedback . Merry Christmas to you and yours, and everyone on your channel!
I have a iOptron Gem28 and I get 0,5-0,8 for pixel with 420 mm and perfect shots up 10 Min. It Is also good for mobility. Many thanks for your work and Happy new year
Well, I just started buying my first astrophotography base setup and my first telescope in over 30 years (pre-kids). I went for the ZWO AM5 since I was starting from zero. However, I was considering staying with a Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro but decided to spend the extra money for the AM-5. Hope I don’t regret that decision.. 😅
Interesting video, Wido! Thanks for uploading. I want to upgrade my AVX in the next year or so and these mounts have caught my eye. Probably keeping my FL to 1000 and under and portability is important as I have to image from a less obstructed site than at my home. We'll see.
The point is portability. If one pay more attention to the guiding accuracy, it should be compared with counterweights. The point is with harmonic drive one could use counterweight or not. So, one could get the pros of both worlds. It would be nice to get those numbers. Besides, if one lives on a big city and it is required to travel there is no chance for traditional.
For portability those harmonic drive mounts look to be a great addition in astro photography but sadly I don't have the budget for such things so I can't see me buying one any time soon, I'll be sticking with my good old trusty & heavy equatorial mounts for a long time yet. I've got an old one marked up for a rebuild for the observatory as it has a good payload capacity.
I just purchased the Juwei 14 for under 1000.00. It seems very quiet & can carry 18 lbs. without counterweight. It had some issues with some apps. Sky Safari plus is the best. It may need a firmware update. I have not tried it with ASIAIR or NINA yet but with Ascom it loaded my equipment. There is a Juwei 17 too but this one weighs only 7-8 lbs .
I’ve just purchased the ioptron hem 29: haven’t been able to test it due to weather but want to use it with my WOFL91 telescope (2nd telescope) and run and gun option.
I think those mounts are good at what they are produced for. That is a very lightweight mount for traveling and doing AP to about 750mm and visual up to the weight limit. I don't see how you can get good stars imaging above 1000mm, but that's only my opinion.
Strainwave gears are very strong. They can easily hold 20+ kgs. The challenge is in the reduction ratio and the associated accuracy in tracking and guiding. Clear skies and merry Xmas!
i just received a university loan C11 for a study of NEO and despite of this telescope being sold at the time with the Celestron AS-GT mount, it is a rather flimsy fit ... even if with the same mount with my TS 115/800 triplet apo I'm getting 0.28 total RMS guiding albeit with 0.5 seconds exposures ... problem being that I have my mount on an improvised pier on the outside of my window ledge at the top floor of my block of flats and I would love a mount that doesn't require 15 kgs of counterweight... an am5 would do .... but still undecided... I'd love to use that with a Hyperstar and guide via my Samyang 135 even at 0.2 secs ... should yield better tracking at least in theory and then switch cameras for even wider field shots ... thanks for the video! ;) ps ... there's also Sharpstar's take on harmonic drive mounts that can take 13/26 kgs of load for about 4k
I picked up an iOptron HEM44EC mount when it first came out and I've reliably maintained 0.5" to 0.7" guiding at focal lengths from 420mm to 2125mm. I LOVE mine! The wave of the future! Pun intended.
Nicely presented. I've got a few hundred hours on the ZWO AM5 with a short focal length (Redcat 51, 250mm), and I quite like it. Guiding has been adequate, and I look forward to see what it can do with an incoming refractor of 700mm of focal length.
@@AstroForumSpace my guiding software is the asiair plus and I haven't figured out how to view the log. Depending on the object's position, seeing, etc, I get an rms of 0.5 to 1.2. Is there a way to calculate/view the guiding rms over an entire imaging session?
I choose the AM5. Didn't cheked outside yet but my fisrt feeling is that we will be a real friends together with EdgeHD 800. Looking forward for clear sky.
You might note that some mounts use strain wave on both axes (ZWO) but others just on the RA axis (iOptron). I prefer both axes as not as sensitive to balance.
Hi David, i deliberately left out hybrid mounts. Ioptron has hae and hem mounts. The hae are full fledged harmonic drive mounts, the hems are hybrid mounts.
My guiding with perfect round stars is slightly better with the ZWO AM5 harmonic mount than my iOptron GEM45 worm-gear mount. That is with a Celestron 9.25 EdgeHD SCT at f/7 (FL= 1,640 mm). Furthermore, it is so much easier to use the AM5 than the iOptron GEM45 mount, that I will never again get a traditional worm-gear mount.
Wido, thanks for the summary - I have quite a few Astronomy friends and colleagues going to Harmonic drives when upgrading from Either less than or even from HEQ5 mounts. I myself have an AZ-EQ6-GT and I think I will stick with it for some time, since I get down as low as 0.2 > 0.3 if I have perfect polar alignment and the right conditrions. It did make me wonder though - you were quoting the sizes of the Image train focal lengths, i.e. 1000mm, and up to 2600mm... etc. So are you talking about using off-axis guiding rather than Guide-scopes? because otherwise I expect the Image train Focal length will be irrelevant.
Thanks, and yes. I quoted some off-axis guiding figures i could find with long focal length telescopes. To be completely honest, I do find those harmonic mounts intriguing, that's why I wanted to make this overview and I totally get why people are excited about these mounts.
@Wido's AstroForum Yes, it is a hybrid. I'm just getting it set up now. Wifi linked to rhe ASIAIR and slews nicely. Waiting for the camera to arrive and clear skies.
Hi, you mention the guiding accuracy with various focal lengths, surely that only applies with OAG setups, if you're using a guidescope it would be the focal length of the guidescope that affected this? Or am I being a bit obtuse?
I am not sure, but could it be possible to combine this design with the counterweight system of the equatorial mount system with a optical sensor to automatically polar align using built-in optics and software ? The counterweight would be used to counter balance the declination movement of the harmonic drive using GPS data of the smart phone driving the mount autocalibrating the mount to obtain polar alignment. After automatically obtained polar alignment and fastening the mount, the rod and counterweight can be removed. The idea of the rod and counterweight would be used so the declination movement is smooth and without putting too much stress on the gear system while the system auto calibrates to obtain perfect polar aligment. To prevent accidental removing the rod before the mount is fastened into position one could make a mechanism so the rod and counterweight can only be removed when the mount screw is firmly tightened.
@@AstroForumSpace Yes I know, but when I look at this design, I think it must be possible to add a (external) second gear system to make automatic polar alignment possible (using a scanning scope à la Starsense) that would auto calibrate the exact declination of this harmonic drive mount using your smartphone (which sends exact time and GPS position to the mount. The rod + counter weight can be used to neutralise the strain on the declination movement during the auto polar aligment of the mount and when this is done, by screwing the mount in the right (declinated) position tightly also unlock the rod and counter weight which then can be removed. AFAIK there are NO auto polar align mounts on the market: this would a game changer if this would be possible, because this significantly simplify the process combined by dropping the hand controller in favour of a smartphone/tablet driven app that could drive the mount by point and move towards the sky and using direct wifi connection. In short: assemble mount, roughly point to north/south, roughly rotate until the declination of the geographical position you are at the moment. put rod + counter weight on the mount so the declination is without strain. Open app, press on the polar align button and the mount will automatically polar align for you. After the right position and declination is obtained. Screw the obtained declination into place, by doing so the rod is unlocked and can be removed including the counter weight. On regular EQ-mounts the rod + counter weight is only used to balance the scope around the rotating axis that follows earth rotation. With this design one could use the rod and counter weight to balance the declination movement during the auto polar aligment process (could be done using software in your smartphone/tablet combining gps data + time from the smartphone/tablet + Star Sense-like camera built into the mount to calibrate).
Good Morning and hope you and your family had a lovely Christmas, love your channel,learning a lot as new to Astronomy. Can I please ask you for advice please,got my Svbony 503 102 telescop afew weeks ago but been frustrated as unable to get a clear focus on any objects day or night despite using the full range of svbony lenses,the focuser seems to run out of range just as you are about to get the object into focus then stops,have emailed svbony but not got any help. I have read on forums that this is a problem with the 102 version,I am just about to return the whole kit to Amazon for a refund but thought I could ask you am I doing something wrong?,I am using the eyepiece directly into the scope,I do have the Sv 188p Dielectric Mirror but not able to find out which adapter goes into it so it can fit the scope,again svbony have not been helpful with this either. Thank you,keep up the good work,I find your videos one of the most easy to follow and understand on the web,well done.
You'll probably be fine adding an extra extension tube like this one: www.astroshop.eu/extension-tubes/orion-2-telescope-eyepiece-extension-tube/p,14076
I've been looking at these as well at first thinking "What is not to like: no backlash and a much lighter alternative to my EQ6R-Pro?". But the more I read (like you) the guiding numbers turned me off. I was interested in one in particular but was disappointed both in its cable management and that it has a USB2 hub and not a USB3. Given its newness this felt like a shortfall in decisions made by the designers .. for that amount of money I really want to be enthused about the product. In the end I concluded I did not want to be an early adopter.
interesting, that these high tech mounts cant handle longer focal lengths. but they are great for mobile applications! light and handle medium scopes well it seems
I'll try to find out how that's possible, given the payload capacity it should be able to handle heavier payloads. But the online PHD graphs at greater focal lengths are somewhat disappointing. I'll try to get one and test out why that is...
These will be GREAT mounts but only after the third iteration. Right now, decent for those with wide field portable setups. But if you can wait, it will only get better.
Traditional GEM has no future. There is no going back after you have first used HDM. If your image scale is below 0.6”arc.s. you should start looking at your pixel size, and not the guiding. Guiding has it limits. So yeah, sell the EQ now while you still get money for it. Look at what happened to CCD cameras. Now you can barely sell a STL11000 for pocket money, and the camera is still as good as it was. Oh wait, the STL11000 would be great for your image scale 😂
I’ve been enjoying the AM5. Its weak point is the altitude adjustment for Polar Alignment. The iOptron mounts appear to have a better adjustment for that
Tell me about it - the PA adjustement controls need significant improvement. I have had mine for a year and probably has about 800-1000 hours on it. Lately I have noticed that I can get PA down to about .50" of error, but when you tighten everything down, it can jump up to over 2" of error. Very frustrating and a waste of time. My buddies with CEM40s just turn a couple knobs and are done with PA in a couple minutes...
You may be interested in the UMi by Meow Astro. It's a strain wave mount driven through onstep that, at least spec wise, should actually outperform the am5, and sells for around $1300 USD, not counting shipping. They are a small company based out of China, so it's somewhat risky, but they've been doing a good job in terms of customer support so far, going as far at to provide testing data on your mount before it ships as well as trouble shooting. Likely, i hope that this means strain wave mount prices will drop soon.
Do you know if their mount is supported by the ASIAir yet?
@@mattysastropics I can't personally say since I use Kstars and NINA, but I did see that Cuiv tested out the UMi 17 Lite using an ASI Air, so I believe it works now.
I think more geared (pardon the pun lol) for mobility. If I were to drop that much on a new mount today, I think Id go with a larger EQ mount that offered better tracking and payload capacity for longer focal length setups. But If I were always moving with my mount to remote sites, and star parties, I think Id be really interested in a strain wave harmonic drive mount. Ease of setup, and lack of counterweights is a huge plus. Right now, what really has my attention is the recently released Sky-Watcher CQ350 Pro mount. It really seems to fill the void between the EQ6 class mounts and the EQ8 class. Thanks for putting in all the legwork here. Great vid.
What mount would be great for 3000mm focal length any idea 💡
@@chandraxrayobs Planewave L350, MACH2, etc etc
Great video. Thank you!
I am getting into this hobby and I am completely confused on which mount to buy... complete newbie . Trying to decide between:
Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro Computerized Equatorial Mount
iOptron HAE43 Dual AZ/EQ SWG Mount with iPolar
iOptron CEM40 Center Balance Equatorial Mount with iPolar, Hard Case and 1.75" LiteRoc Tripod
ZWO AM5 Harmonic Drive Equatorial Mount and Tripod - but this one, I am almost certain that it will drop off my list... only because of weight capacity... not sure what I will end up with in terms of equipment and would like a mount that can grow with me if I decide to change/upgrade to any OTA that is heavier...
Hi there. Yes, you have a nice wish list. I wrote a blog about advanced mounts here: astroforumspace.com/top-10-advanced-telescope-mounts-for-astrophotography-in-2023/ Perhaps useful. As for the ZWO AM5, I did test it with an Edge HD 8" with a .7 reducer and autoguiding for deepsky and it did the job. Anything heavier or bigger may be better off on the skywatcher EQ6R Pro. That's a very stable, classic GEM, but obviously a lot heavier and you'll need to add counterweights. I still use both mounts.
Like you I find my guiding numbers are just as good with my edgeHD8 and AZ-EQ6 mount I’m easily getting sub 1 arc second. So the only real benefit would be portability. But then I’ve also heard of instability issues with Harmonic mounts. Where people have had to add weights etc to anchor them down. This is the main reason I stayed with a traditional EQ mount when I upgraded last month
I have an AM5 with the CF tripod and I put 10-15lbs of sandbags in the pouch when I put anything larger than a small refractor on the mount. I also owned an EQ6 and I would much rather deal with some sandbags than a 40lb mount head made of solid aluminum.
Hobym Crux 140 Traveler (mfg in South Korea) is also available. Capacity is advertised at 15kg. This is very accurate tracking.
Hi Joel, thanks. I've added the Hobym to the table: astroforumspace.com/harmonic-drive-mounts-table/
I have an AM5 and in decent seeing conditions, I can get down to .35" RMS with an OAG. I typically image between 300mm-600mm, but I recently took ownership of an EdgeHD 8. Imaging at 1400mm has presented a bit of a challenge in that the extra weight and bulk of the scope has pushed that number up to .70" RMS with similar seeing conditions - and that is with the counterweight. Additionally, if there is ANY wind, those numbers go well past 1.0" and the subs are trash. Consequently I am considering getting a heavier mount like a CEM40 or EQR6 to have for less than ideal conditions when I want to shoot at 800mm or longer with my current scopes. My other option is to BIN my camera (2600MC & MM), but that defeats the purpose of shooting longer focal lengths in my opinion.
For the last two weeks I've been nursing a bad back from lugging my EQ6 mount head up over the side and into the camping cart during the strip down (after a couple of hours sitting in the cold). Luckily I have a wheelchair and crutches readily available to help with the aftermath of such careless behaviour. So I'm absolutely fine with the attractive concept of a fraction of the weight, just not convinced on the spend, while I already have a perfectly functional (18 year old) mount. If I don't move house and build a runoff observatory, then at some point an AM5 will be my upgrade. Most of the others are unjustifiably expensive for my circumstances.
Aiaiai. I once tried to drag my EQ6R pro up to my rooftop with a bad knee and only using a small ladder. First and last time...I'm glad to have survived that endeavour:-). Happy holidays!
I use mostly an EQ8 and a 7inch Mak. In summer, I plan to buy an additional mount, so I can put my 10inch on the EQ8.
I(61) try to get a harmonic life with my young gf.(28). It is not so easy.
Thank you for an excellent video. I hope now for a big strong improvement.
Great comparison of the predominant harmonic mounts that are out there now, Wido! Thanks for that. I have the AM5 and it's fine for me in terms of portability and with my scopes less than 800mm fl with typical guiding accuracy between 0.4-0.8". However, I think that if I was to put a more permanent setup at home and/or use a longer fl scope I'd look for alternatives, either harmonic drives having encoders or a more mainstream mount. Thanks again and have a very Mery Christmas!
Hi Greg, great to hear your am5 is performing well! I'm actually considering that mount as well to take with me on holiday trips merry Xmas and a happy 2023!
Hello Wido. I have been a happy user of a ZWO AM5 since July (I pre ordered it in December last year). The simple facts of not having to carry the counterweights and not having to balance the mount are really game changers. As for the precision, it seems to be somewhat dependant on the load you put on the mount, ranging from .2 arc seconds with my Takahashi 60 to .8 arc second with my 8’ Edge HD, which is still good enough to get pinpoint stars with 2 minute exposures. And yes, believe me, the fact of just having to put the Edge HD on the mount, polar align and be ready to shoot meant that I used this OTA much more often this year. So definitely a worthy investment.
Hi Damian, great. Thanks for your feedback! I'll think it over 😀
I ordered the AM5 a few days before I saw your review. Haven’t had a chance to use it yet, but will let you know. I was becoming concerned that my new SCT 9.25, with the long imaging train I put on it, was staining tfe capacity of my AVX, even though it’s long been paired and sold with that mount. The “so-so” tracking of the AVX was also going to make a bigger difference with the 9”. But with the 23 pounds of the SCT, I also wasn’t inclined to pile on a bulky mount with it. I’m getting older and my joints protest much more loudly than they used to when I challenge them. Also, given that my next scope down the road will likely be a smaller refractor for deep sky, the AM5 struck me as a promising pick. But the more I read, the more reservations seem to pop up about the AM5’s tracking. So, I know I’ve taken a bit of a risk. Will let you know how it turns out.
Hi Dough, thanks for sharing. I'm probably going to test that mount myself with my 8 inch at long focal length 😀. Let's hope for the best and a happy 2023.
There is a video on UA-cam showing how to thread the AM5 into the AVX tripod for more stability with heavier scopes, The carbon tripod it comes with is, according to the gentleman who made this visie, not optimal for big payloads, so someone at ZWO gave him this tip, . I’ll also go ahead and put the counterweight on the AM5 just to ensure the payload is stable. Happy 2023, and as always, thanks for the incredibly informative reviews!
These listing videos are gr8, you are doing an amazing job Wido! :D
Merci! And merry Xmas.
I trialled AM5 for my 8”SCT with (and without) focal reducer 0.63 so basically 1300 - 2000 mm focal length. It was a disaster using my OAG. The need to set autoguide exposure to 0.5s-1.0s with these mounts meant i rarely (if ever) had good guiding stars. Now, without guiding i can get 60s image subs with my AZEQ6. With the AM5 it was challenging above 20s. On balance i agree with ZWO that any scope with FL larger than 1000mm needs to think carefully about the benefits of portability (using a separate autoguider) and its never attractive at around 2000mm (using OAG) imho.
Interesting Chris. Thanks for sharing your experiences on the am5! Merry Xmas.
I always do autoguiding with my 9.25 EHD (1645mm), but I do use a ZWO OAG L with the large prism and a 174MM guide camera. I haven't had any problems finding a star yet. But with those short shutter speeds that the AM5 requires, you may be right that it becomes a bit more difficult. I used to have my SCT on my EQ6R, and I found it struggled with this long focal length. The RMS value of guiding may be a good point of reference, but it doesn't say it all. If your peak to peak corrections are higher than the resolution of your system, you cannot expect perfect stars.
As a travel, or remote mount at moderate FLs, they are a very attractive proposition
.. Im currently running a GT81 on a CEM40 which is fine for remote work but I might struggle to go abroad
Yep, a smaller APO refractor is the perfect match for these strain wave mounts I think. I'm tempted to get one and just test it to its max. capacity, perhaps I will :-)
Thanks for this, Wido. I'm looking to upgrade to an eq mount. I've had my eye on this. I'm just waiting for further feedback .
Merry Christmas to you and yours, and everyone on your channel!
Thanks. Merry Xmas Perry!
Happy with my AM5. Same payload as the eq6-r but can fit in travel bag. Guiding is very good if using short guide exposure (~1s)
Thanks for sharing
I have a iOptron Gem28 and I get 0,5-0,8 for pixel with 420 mm and perfect shots up 10 Min. It Is also good for mobility. Many thanks for your work and Happy new year
It’s the only EQ mount I’d consider at this point. Balancing with counterweights is obsolete.
Well, I just started buying my first astrophotography base setup and my first telescope in over 30 years (pre-kids). I went for the ZWO AM5 since I was starting from zero. However, I was considering staying with a Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro but decided to spend the extra money for the AM-5. Hope I don’t regret that decision.. 😅
You'll be fine! Clear skies and enjoy!
Interesting video, Wido! Thanks for uploading. I want to upgrade my AVX in the next year or so and these mounts have caught my eye. Probably keeping my FL to 1000 and under and portability is important as I have to image from a less obstructed site than at my home. We'll see.
Hi Joe, yes, the reduction in weight is awesome! I'd also like a light-weight mount to replace my old avx. Happy holidays!
The point is portability. If one pay more attention to the guiding accuracy, it should be compared with counterweights. The point is with harmonic drive one could use counterweight or not. So, one could get the pros of both worlds. It would be nice to get those numbers. Besides, if one lives on a big city and it is required to travel there is no chance for traditional.
For portability those harmonic drive mounts look to be a great addition in astro photography but sadly I don't have the budget for such things so I can't see me buying one any time soon, I'll be sticking with my good old trusty & heavy equatorial mounts for a long time yet. I've got an old one marked up for a rebuild for the observatory as it has a good payload capacity.
The umi 17 costs as much as the heq5 if you buy directly from the supplier, without tripod tho
I just purchased the Juwei 14 for under 1000.00. It seems very quiet & can carry 18 lbs. without counterweight. It had some issues with some apps. Sky Safari plus is the best. It may need a firmware update. I have not tried it with ASIAIR or NINA yet but with Ascom it loaded my equipment. There is a Juwei 17 too but this one weighs only 7-8 lbs .
I’ve just purchased the ioptron hem 29: haven’t been able to test it due to weather but want to use it with my WOFL91 telescope (2nd telescope) and run and gun option.
Congrats! Hope that mount will serve you well Steven!
@@AstroForumSpace I won’t have a lot of weight on it. I don’t think it put the edge 8 HD on it
I think those mounts are good at what they are produced for. That is a very lightweight mount for traveling and doing AP to about 750mm and visual up to the weight limit. I don't see how you can get good stars imaging above 1000mm, but that's only my opinion.
Strainwave gears are very strong. They can easily hold 20+ kgs. The challenge is in the reduction ratio and the associated accuracy in tracking and guiding. Clear skies and merry Xmas!
ZWO said 900mm fl will be limits
Sharpstar also got one the Mark III and it looks pretty nice but pricey, at the end I think I will get the AM5.
Tx. I'll add this one to the dynamic table.
i just received a university loan C11 for a study of NEO and despite of this telescope being sold at the time with the Celestron AS-GT mount, it is a rather flimsy fit ... even if with the same mount with my TS 115/800 triplet apo I'm getting 0.28 total RMS guiding albeit with 0.5 seconds exposures ...
problem being that I have my mount on an improvised pier on the outside of my window ledge at the top floor of my block of flats and I would love a mount that doesn't require 15 kgs of counterweight...
an am5 would do .... but still undecided... I'd love to use that with a Hyperstar and guide via my Samyang 135 even at 0.2 secs ... should yield better tracking at least in theory and then switch cameras for even wider field shots ...
thanks for the video! ;)
ps ... there's also Sharpstar's take on harmonic drive mounts that can take 13/26 kgs of load for about 4k
Thanks Alex!
Interested to see if Cycloidal Drive EQ Mounts hit the market.
Yes, I'm not an expert but I noticed the differences between harmonic and cycloidal drives. Interesting.
I picked up an iOptron HEM44EC mount when it first came out and I've reliably maintained 0.5" to 0.7" guiding at focal lengths from 420mm to 2125mm. I LOVE mine! The wave of the future! Pun intended.
Sounds good, clear skies!
Nicely presented. I've got a few hundred hours on the ZWO AM5 with a short focal length (Redcat 51, 250mm), and I quite like it. Guiding has been adequate, and I look forward to see what it can do with an incoming refractor of 700mm of focal length.
Im imaging at max. 1500mm fl to capture tiny galaxies. Would love to see the guiding results of the am5. Clear skies.
@@AstroForumSpace my guiding software is the asiair plus and I haven't figured out how to view the log. Depending on the object's position, seeing, etc, I get an rms of 0.5 to 1.2. Is there a way to calculate/view the guiding rms over an entire imaging session?
@@nickreecy4229 for your redcat - which guiding exposure length in which bortle area? Thx
@@mr.f.9672 Bortle 4/5 and 1 second exposures.
I choose the AM5. Didn't cheked outside yet but my fisrt feeling is that we will be a real friends together with EdgeHD 800. Looking forward for clear sky.
Sharpstar Mark 3?
You might note that some mounts use strain wave on both axes (ZWO) but others just on the RA axis (iOptron). I prefer both axes as not as sensitive to balance.
Hi David, i deliberately left out hybrid mounts. Ioptron has hae and hem mounts. The hae are full fledged harmonic drive mounts, the hems are hybrid mounts.
My guiding with perfect round stars is slightly better with the ZWO AM5 harmonic mount than my iOptron GEM45 worm-gear mount. That is with a Celestron 9.25 EdgeHD SCT at f/7 (FL= 1,640 mm). Furthermore, it is so much easier to use the AM5 than the iOptron GEM45 mount, that I will never again get a traditional worm-gear mount.
Wido, thanks for the summary - I have quite a few Astronomy friends and colleagues going to Harmonic drives when upgrading from Either less than or even from HEQ5 mounts. I myself have an AZ-EQ6-GT and I think I will stick with it for some time, since I get down as low as 0.2 > 0.3 if I have perfect polar alignment and the right conditrions.
It did make me wonder though - you were quoting the sizes of the Image train focal lengths, i.e. 1000mm, and up to 2600mm... etc. So are you talking about using off-axis guiding rather than Guide-scopes? because otherwise I expect the Image train Focal length will be irrelevant.
Thanks, and yes. I quoted some off-axis guiding figures i could find with long focal length telescopes. To be completely honest, I do find those harmonic mounts intriguing, that's why I wanted to make this overview and I totally get why people are excited about these mounts.
I was looking at the EQ6 but when I read how much it weighed, my lower back said no way. I ordered the Ioptron HEM44 instead.
Lol, tx. Thats a hybrid mount right? How does it perform? Clear skies!
@Wido's AstroForum Yes, it is a hybrid. I'm just getting it set up now. Wifi linked to rhe ASIAIR and slews nicely. Waiting for the camera to arrive and clear skies.
Hi, you mention the guiding accuracy with various focal lengths, surely that only applies with OAG setups, if you're using a guidescope it would be the focal length of the guidescope that affected this?
Or am I being a bit obtuse?
I am not sure, but could it be possible to combine this design with the counterweight system of the equatorial mount system with a optical sensor to automatically polar align using built-in optics and software ? The counterweight would be used to counter balance the declination movement of the harmonic drive using GPS data of the smart phone driving the mount autocalibrating the mount to obtain polar alignment. After automatically obtained polar alignment and fastening the mount, the rod and counterweight can be removed. The idea of the rod and counterweight would be used so the declination movement is smooth and without putting too much stress on the gear system while the system auto calibrates to obtain perfect polar aligment. To prevent accidental removing the rod before the mount is fastened into position one could make a mechanism so the rod and counterweight can only be removed when the mount screw is firmly tightened.
I think the rod and weight option is mainly there to add stability and weightto prevent the lighter strain wave mounts from topling over. Cheers!
@@AstroForumSpace Yes I know, but when I look at this design, I think it must be possible to add a (external) second gear system to make automatic polar alignment possible (using a scanning scope à la Starsense) that would auto calibrate the exact declination of this harmonic drive mount using your smartphone (which sends exact time and GPS position to the mount. The rod + counter weight can be used to neutralise the strain on the declination movement during the auto polar aligment of the mount and when this is done, by screwing the mount in the right (declinated) position tightly also unlock the rod and counter weight which then can be removed. AFAIK there are NO auto polar align mounts on the market: this would a game changer if this would be possible, because this significantly simplify the process combined by dropping the hand controller in favour of a smartphone/tablet driven app that could drive the mount by point and move towards the sky and using direct wifi connection. In short: assemble mount, roughly point to north/south, roughly rotate until the declination of the geographical position you are at the moment. put rod + counter weight on the mount so the declination is without strain. Open app, press on the polar align button and the mount will automatically polar align for you. After the right position and declination is obtained. Screw the obtained declination into place, by doing so the rod is unlocked and can be removed including the counter weight. On regular EQ-mounts the rod + counter weight is only used to balance the scope around the rotating axis that follows earth rotation. With this design one could use the rod and counter weight to balance the declination movement during the auto polar aligment process (could be done using software in your smartphone/tablet combining gps data + time from the smartphone/tablet + Star Sense-like camera built into the mount to calibrate).
Hi Wido, how many kilos has the AM5 + Tripod?
Hi there, the mount is about 5.5kg, the tripod 2.3kg (TC40).
The best one is probably the one you can actually afford.
The best way to find them on the sites is to sort from highest to lowest price.
Good Morning and hope you and your family had a lovely Christmas, love your channel,learning a lot as new to Astronomy.
Can I please ask you for advice please,got my Svbony 503 102 telescop afew weeks ago but been frustrated as unable to get a clear focus on any objects day or night despite using the full range of svbony lenses,the focuser seems to run out of range just as you are about to get the object into focus then stops,have emailed svbony but not got any help.
I have read on forums that this is a problem with the 102 version,I am just about to return the whole kit to Amazon for a refund but thought I could ask you am I doing something wrong?,I am using the eyepiece directly into the scope,I do have the Sv 188p Dielectric Mirror but not able to find out which adapter goes into it so it can fit the scope,again svbony have not been helpful with this either.
Thank you,keep up the good work,I find your videos one of the most easy to follow and understand on the web,well done.
You'll probably be fine adding an extra extension tube like this one: www.astroshop.eu/extension-tubes/orion-2-telescope-eyepiece-extension-tube/p,14076
@@AstroForumSpace Thank you very much,👍.
I've been looking at these as well at first thinking "What is not to like: no backlash and a much lighter alternative to my EQ6R-Pro?". But the more I read (like you) the guiding numbers turned me off. I was interested in one in particular but was disappointed both in its cable management and that it has a USB2 hub and not a USB3. Given its newness this felt like a shortfall in decisions made by the designers .. for that amount of money I really want to be enthused about the product. In the end I concluded I did not want to be an early adopter.
Yep, I'm on the same thought train. Good for shorter FL telescopes but maybe not yet for my 1500mm fl f/7 Edge HD...clear skies!
interesting, that these high tech mounts cant handle longer focal lengths.
but they are great for mobile applications! light and handle medium scopes well it seems
I'll try to find out how that's possible, given the payload capacity it should be able to handle heavier payloads. But the online PHD graphs at greater focal lengths are somewhat disappointing. I'll try to get one and test out why that is...
Great video, but I don't understand what the RST-300 has that makes it cost so much.
I got the AM5 about a year ago, and I'm happy.
harmonic driver have a long smooth PE , most should use short expourse to autoguiding
Great video..also for the money really only sure they would be ok for a portable rig...anything on a mount I think a std equatorial mount is better
These will be GREAT mounts but only after the third iteration. Right now, decent for those with wide field portable setups. But if you can wait, it will only get better.
Traditional GEM has no future. There is no going back after you have first used HDM. If your image scale is below 0.6”arc.s. you should start looking at your pixel size, and not the guiding. Guiding has it limits. So yeah, sell the EQ now while you still get money for it. Look at what happened to CCD cameras. Now you can barely sell a STL11000 for pocket money, and the camera is still as good as it was. Oh wait, the STL11000 would be great for your image scale 😂
Having to use short exposures on your guiding, isn't that a problem when it comes to seeing?
That depends on...your seeing conditions, lol. I'm in a heavy light polluted city and can still guide with 1 second exposures.
Can any of those harmonic mounts take on a Ioptron CEM70? What do you think?
Ik heb geen cem70 dus dat weet ik niet.
Wd20 looks interesting..