I have taught hundreds of young children below the age of 12. I can honestly say that I have encountered some profoundly disturbing behaviour patterns including strategic gas lighting of teachers. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I'm not sure I would have believed it.
I deal with the gaslighting from my 10 year old SS mainly, but also his sister, my 12 year old SD. Very manipulative. NEVER want to accept accountability. Lie all the time. It's exhausting. Their biological mother is DEFINITELY, borderline personality/narcissist... Diagnosed!!
My 15 year old is a monster. Beyond the normal teenage behaviour..she mocks my disability and my lonely life as a single person. My home feels like a prison and I'm at a point now where I feel abused all over again as I did with my ex partner. And I genuinely don't care if I wake up in the morning or not. Your child abusing you is the worst pain imaginable.
Her father was one , I got rid of him because I did not want her to grow up seeing that kind of behaviour. Now she is doing it to me ,saying I am abusing ger to children's services . I love her beyond Ife itself. All I want is her beack at home with me . But I realise I need to keep myself safe as well from her.
Yes, a thousand times yes. My sister has been lying, and scapegoating me since the age of 4. She enjoyed seeing me get punished and getting others to laugh at me. It was daily torture. She never tired of it. I was 9, and didn't have anyone to protect me. She manipulated my mum and had her wound around her little finger. I grew up hating her, so everyone said I was the problem. She's now in her late 40s, and is a covert narc. Only a few of us in the family know the truth.
Your situation sounds similar to mine. Definitely by the time I started 1st or 2nd grade I can recognize that my sister had narc tendancies (she is a year and a half younger than I). Yes, always getting me in trouble and trying to pit my other younger siblings against me. It didn't help that my mother was also a narc and I was her scapegoat, too. I notice some really obvious narc-in-training behaviors in two of my sister's children starting around age 9 to 10-ish.
Very similar to my sister, who since early age was manipulative and deceitful, and today is a psycopath and covert narc. She is 2 years younger than i , and our narc mother was training her since she was born.
One of my high school students, an extremely intelligent 15 year old, constantly told me he was the best at everything: every sport and every subject. In addition he confided in me that he loved to turn people against each other. He bragged about how easy it was - and proceeded to explain to me that all you need to do is tell someone that another person is saying nasty things about them. I asked why he did it and he said it gave him a sense of power. According to him when you tell someone that another person is saying mean things about them- the person(target) can’t sleep or study because they are so consumed with the slander. He came from a wealthy family and would continually insinuate that he was superior and openly mocked people who worked blue collar jobs. I told him that was unacceptable behavior and shut him down if he started talking that way. He also had delusions about getting everyone’s attention. At one point he threatened another adult by saying he would tell people the guy hit him in public. This guy never touched him and handled it in a professional matter. When I asked why he threatened this man he admitted the guy never touched him, the student just wanted everyone to think about him and to feel bad for him. He craved being the center of attention. This same kid deleted important documents off my laptop when I went to use the restroom because he didn’t like my tone of voice when I reprimanded him the week before. Needless to say I no longer work with him. There is no doubt in my mind he had NPD.
My money is on that diagnosis.. my (would be) step-son is 13. And -I'm sorry to disagree with Dr Romani here- I totally see NPD already brewing. He's been subject to these types of behaviors from both parents all his life..plays them off each other..manipulation is his favorite tool...and I call him on it all. He doesn't come over anymore.
That kid sounds scary, that is not normal behavior for someone that age to be doing at all. I have to disagree with Dr Ramani as well, when a child exhibits extremely manipulative traits such as this, seeking out to intentionally hurt others in some passive aggressive way only because they don’t like something someone said, because it gives them satisfaction. This kid you described has absolutely no empathy, he very clearly does whatever he wants to get whatever he wants at any cost; ruining people’s lives. I would say he has NPD.
You can't just disagree with someone that has a degree because you are seeing very concerning behaviors. As she said there are other diagnosis such as conduct disorders that yes could lead into NPD later but NPD is a personality disorder and personality isn't concrete until mid 20s things could change and be worked through. My guess is the kid lacks attention from those that he most needs it from and is mirroring entitled behaviors he's seeing elsewhere with the hopes that it will get him noticed, not because he's a narc in need of supply but because he's desperate. He needs therapy no doubt but you are just proving her point, that by trying to identify these kids with these big personality disorders it can be self actualization because we ignore the bigger root that needs dealt with.
Yes, raised by a narcissist/(borderline) led by fear, most-likely alienated from a parent causing a splitting, self-hatred, lack of empathy, and low self-esteem, etc. Both parents are unique and irreplaceable in a child's life. To remove a parent from a child's life is the kind of bad idea that only narcissist/(borderline) would do and causes an attachment system trauma. Normal parents have an intrinsic understanding of how important the attachment a child has to both parents and tries to maintain and encourage the relationship even if the other parent is problematic. Narcissist/(borderlines) want their children to adopt the same anger, resentment and vengeful wishes that they have for their former spouse and do so by signalling the child to be afraid of the other parent as well as using severely damaging tactics of emotional manipulation to distort and delude the child's perceptions of their other parent until they do. This spreads the disease trans-generationally.
I felt like the songs from Daniel Tiger that I sang with my little girl fully applied for the behavior of my narcissist. "Stop stop stop, It's OK feel angry but it's not not not ok to hurt someone" was one that came to mind on a regular. ua-cam.com/video/Gbt3f4b3oeY/v-deo.html -10:02 if you'd like to hear it. ( These are the things that help me keep going is knowing I can parent my kids in a way to stop the cycle from continuing in them.) He just acted like a big toddler having a temper tantrum so often and it was so so so sad. That is why I had to leave. The children will thank me when they are adults.
Same here , my ex best friend whom I met in grade 7 literally mentally tortured me and was like keeping an eye on what I do , she does not understand boundaries
I met my ex narc at 15. He definitely displayed Narcissistic traits then. And as he got older, he got worse. He learned how to master his disorder over time. Becoming more exploitive and abusive.
I have seen this too! I used to work in mental health and I worked specifically with teenagers and there are kids and teens who show all the traits and need very intensive therapy and might still retain these traits even with therapy.
My daughter is displaying these behaviours just like her grandmother and she's the youngest of three with special needs. I'm fighting it with everything I've got.
The first time I don't agree with you. My sister's son is a 10 y.o. malignant, violent Narcissist. Since the age of 8 he gaslights his mother, he beats his mother, he threatens his mother, he has zero empathy, he manipulates , he triangulates, he scapegoats me, he's always testing limits, he's entitled, vengeful, he doesn't follow rules, he has narcissistic rage attacks. What am I missing??? Oh and he's always acting sweet and nice and shy in front of the other people, like an innocent angel, he also likes playing the victim, so not a conduct disorder ... He's not the kind of kid that would end up in juvenile justice system, but rather the one who would put someone in a prison for fun by false accusations ect. He's a monster hiding behind a sweet face. Before I knew about narcissism I even thought he was a kind of psychopath, but he's clearly driven by emotions, and that's the only difference.
No. That’s my daughter you are talking about. She is 12! 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹 Unbelievably malignant and feels zero emotions towards me (divorcee). I’m scared of her, i tiptoe when she’s around. I was trying to help her with her homework and it took one hour to do something of 15 min because she would just deny anything I told her do! Everything that I said (i was consulting google) she would roll her eyes and fist the notebook, erase whatever I told her to do, fight every single word I explained! I left her alone and went to cook my dinner. I was (am) drained, vampirized! She’s so so so entitled and rude!!
Why isn't mindfulness and regulating emotions in the classroom taught in schools and to the parents. Narcissists actually believe what their thoughts are saying to them so it just feeds it more. We wouldn't have this problem if mindful presence and emotional regulation and feelings feelings is taught at a young age. Talking therapies do not work. They damp it down for a while and put a band aid over it but it just keeps the ego alive and makes it eventually makes it stronger
Quite many experts agree it's possible to determine if a child or a teenager will potentially develop a personality disorder. I think it's dangerous to use such a wide umbrella and give the kids a pass just for "being kids" when a good chunk of them actively engage in bully-like behavior and push other teenagers to suicide.
Absolutely yes. I told my kids that my grandfather passed away, they all said oh I’m so sorry mom, except my stepson who said “cool”. He regularly makes racists, homophobic, etc jokes towards others but if someone playfully says anything to him (lighthearted nothing like his “jokes”) he screams at them. He regularly slaps, hits, pokes, etc the other kids and If they even try to tickle, poke or play around with him back, he screams “DONT YOU EVER TOUCH ME!” Everything has an excuse, a bad grade- teachers fault, a damaged item- the fault is whatever inanimate item made him mad. All the kids have the same rules- ask for a soda or a sweet, and only one per day. They always ask, he never does and takes as much as he wants. Ate an entire pie, no care that no one else had any. He says he is “treated unfairly” or like an “outsider” and that he gets in trouble more than the other kids. Yet I’ve told him, if he followed the same rules as everyone else in the home, he would get the same amount of discipline they do. He demands that the youngest child in the house fetch him items, rubs his feet, etc and when she finally started telling him no and standing up for herself (happening after school when we adults aren’t around) he would get in her face and say things like “I told you to _____ you little, insert derogatory comment.” Basically he acts like he can do anything and everything he wants and how dare you say otherwise and you better not to the same to him. His teachers and other people will comment on his nice and respectful he is and how much they like him. So it’s evident he knows how to behave and is acting to get his way or a reaction at home. Makes things exhaustingly stressful. His older sister said he was like that even at 6 yrs old (before I was around). He is 14. So ya, I do think some kids are narcissistic from a very young age.
I work with traumatised children and teenagers, in a carer capacity, many of them exhibit conduct disorder. There is a big difference between children being “child selfish” and a child who destroys belongings and property and is violent toward everyone and everything around them. Some of the kids are also ASD. Our biggest job is helping the learn to self regulate. They go from happy and playing to trying to put a chair through the window in 0.5 seconds because someone asked them to wash their hands for dinner. There is also an issue getting them the right mental health support as the system is completely overrun. Sometimes it seems like an uphill battle, if they don’t get the help they need before age 18 many will end up in jail or worse. One 17 year old used every narcissistic behaviour in the narcissists playbook. Gaslighting, blaming me for being late when he had refused to get in the car, projecting his thoughts and behaviours onto me, lying to others about me. He was intimidating yelling and using violence toward me and other carers all the time, and was so destructive. While he does also have ASD I have met his father who is very high in narcissistic traits, so is some of that behaviour born/learned from parents? Yes.
You sound very victim-blamey for someone who “works with traumatized children and teenagers.” Yet you are focused on their acting out behavior and not the abuse they must have endured to get there? And youre the adult in the situation. Maybe you shouldnt work with troubled kids.
You don't sound 'victim blamey' at all. Wow to that comment. You sound like you're willing to rip the lid off and tell it how it is. Straight facts. Teens with serious issues can be hardcore. Don't be afraid to talk about it because someone with no clue, calls you 'victim blamey'. People not talking about this stuff is the reason why so many parents and carers feel so isolated.
@@anju8376 Your comment suggests you missed the whole point,which was addressing the current behaviours. You can rest assured there are files with client info regarding life history,etc.
Young narcs in early relationships are testing the waters, seeing how far they can push & break someone. Harming animals or siblings. Abusers aren't defined by who doesn't clean their room or help with the dishes. Expect defiance in teenagers, it's helping shape their individuality, boundaries etc. Look to how they treat their friends & relationships.
Bravo! I've read at least 50 posted comments and you have really nailed it today. Those who have the traits get busy at this point, I think Dr. Ramani may have to revisit her response...
I completely agree! I think Dr. Ramani needs to revisit this video too. She might not have worked with many kids/teens high in narcissistic traits, but those who have know their issues are in how they treat their friends, manipulate, belittle gaslight, etc. It's a real phenomenon and I think this video will leave those who know it first hand confused or invalidated.
@@daleblack3229 yes yes 1000x YES... I know, I know about what Dr Romani said and I do agree except for in my (yes, vast) experience with these types throughout my ENTIRE DAMN LIFE... ENTIRE... that I can say are just inherently this way. Yes it certainly is a "Nuture" is and not necessarily "Nature" but... quite honestly, some kids are just set differently at birth, and their environment either helps or hinders.. period!!
My 11yo daughter found a narcissist in her class. She just described a situation at school that blew my mind. Daughter was nice to a boy who has trouble socially and needed a friend. She and another friend took it upon themselves to simply be kind to the kid. Empathy. Enter the narc, who's been a schoolmate since nursery school. She decided nobody should be nice to this boy. She has blocked my daughter's number because of it. She was lobbying other kids from other classes to dump on the awkward kid, providing weaknesses from years ago as ammo in case they don't know the victim. Brought a group of friends to kick daughter and co out from under shady tree at recess. The other two kids got up to leave, daughter said no, we're fine, we're staying. It's bizarre. Daughter went to the counselor in secret, dragging the victim and other kind soul along. It all blew up very recently, so counselor is alerting their 6th grade counselor at middle school, she was very concerned. I'm incredibly proud of daughter, though, I must say. All this by instinct! ❤️ Worse, as I shared how important it is for daughter to stay away from this psycho, she recognized all the things I described, like the flying monkeys and enablers coming to excuse the behavior because of temporary stress at home. The narc apologized and said same thing, home stress, attempting to hoover daughter. Sure enough, evil narc was back soon. Daughter was pretty shocked how well I predicted this stuff, so I thank Dr Ramani, and I respectfully assure her, this can start earlier than she thinks. I'm grateful for the opportunity to discuss the unhealthy behavior pattern and warn daughter to steer clear. Sad.
I was a teenager living in a narcissistic family system. I was always on survival mode; always on the look-out for danger. I didn't have the 'privilege' to be able to behave like a typical teen.
I understand. My parents were narcs and I didn't even realize the extent of what I missed until I dated and made friends in my 20's. You are loved here.
OMG I identify with you so well! Mine also ISOLATED me (and my dad) from all contact with the outside world, and my dad died a very painful, LONELY death in his room opposite hers, in the same house, under the same roof.
Mind you, if the kid has a sensory issue, they might still be fussy about the food on the table even in times like those - because some cases can be so severe the child will gag. In some cases, kids with sensory issues have even ended up vomiting after eating said food. So even if they know they aren't supposed to complain, they might do what they can not to be forced to eat the food that triggers sensory issues, especially when the issue being triggered is severe. The complaint might take a different form, though, than that of a kid who isn't in a food insecure household (one case I heard of, the kid complained more about losing a dessert for not eating the food, than they did directly about eating the food).
I feel like my original comment here was a little snippy so let me just say instead...A 100% compliant child is a traumatized child. Regardless of whether that trauma was caused by parents, food insecurity, or whatever.
@@rocketpsyence And I bet that this person, if they ever ran across a kid with sensory issues in a food insecure situation either ran across a kid whose parents dealt with them harshly if they uttered a complaint about their sensory issues, or else the kid DID complain and the person wrongly assumed the child wasn't food insecure because they were refusing the food that gives them sensory issues. Which in many cases could be a lot of foods, so unless that kid has food insecure siblings without sensory issues, their complaining might mean their food insecurity might not be obvious to someone using complaint as a metric for whether the child is food insecure or not. And speaking of which, it turns out that sometimes even people with starvation-level poverty are reluctant to try certain unfamiliar foods - initiatives that help such people have seen that sometimes - so no, complaining, or lack thereof, isn't a 100% reliable measure of food insecurity even when the person doesn't have sensory issues. But a whole group of people in which nobody complains but the circumstances are grim is pretty much a 100% reliable indicator that the people are desperate and that there is some kind of pressure ensuring they dare not complain.
That's true, but I still don't eat seafood or meat because I never got to experience that as a child. The thought of it, the taste and the smell makes me gag. Chicken is the only thing I can eat in that respect. Then again, I don't speak rudely to people who offer me such foods. I'll accept and try to eat it. It took me a long time to eat a variety of foods, and I still eat a lot of very bland food to this day.
I’m married to a man that got diagnosed with ADHD 1 yr age. I have known him since I was a teen and I worked with Special Ed right out of high school, so his behavior always seemed like the children with ADHD. There were times, I felt he may have be narcissistic. After 1 year of therapy, I can honestly say, it’s his ADHD and growing up with a narcissistic mom that give him traits of a narcissist. He has really changed throughout this year but he has shed A LOT of tears. My heart goes out to all those kids that have disabilities and a narcissistic parent.
ADHD runs in my family and so does narcissism so it’s definitely hard to distinguish the two! I totally feel what you’re saying because I have ADHD but have narcissistic parents! So people have thought that I am a narcissist myself even though I’m a clear empath! Now that I have children of my own and make sure that they always apologize and except accountability for their actions so that I don’t continue the narcissistic cycle!
Children and teenagers are commonly narcissistic, especially young children. They are not fully developed enough to meet their own needs, so they need other people to help them to survive. This is why older narcissists can often seem like they are stuck at the age of a young child or teenager.
I get what you’re saying but they have proven that most children are completely ego-based because they have to as a survival mechanism! I do believe it’s more environmental if children are not taught empathy or accountability for their actions they definitely can turn to narcissist very quickly! I absolutely love all your content 🙏🏻
I am a little confused. If narcissistic are created in childhood then why couldn’t a child be a narcissist? In the sibling video Dr. Ramani stated that some siblings said it was always there. I am 99.9% sure my step son is a narcissistic. I know kids, I know boys, but there is something drastically different in his actions and behavior. I really just want some help on what to do with him & how to protect my kids and myself. I am so drained everyday by him. Plus he is damaging my kids & marriage. If early intervention seems to work best with everything then maybe we could help these narcissistic so that they don’t continue to hurt others until we confirm they are narcissistic as adults. Just frustrated & there is no real information on how to deal with a narcissistic child.
Wow I’m dealing with the same thing except it’s a step daughter! I would love to know how you dealt with the child? Are you still married? I feel my marriage is over step daughter and husband have been out of the house for over a month
My 12 year old niece is 100 percent covert Narcissistic. Any correction or direction is a personal attack. Will never admit they don't know something or that she's wrong. Professional at gas lighting.
To everyone who is watching this and had to deal with a narcissist "friend" in their childhood/teenage years with nobody to help you, I see you, you are so so so strong and I hope we'll get our justice one day, one way or another. The most important now is to cut them from your life finally and work on healing yourself, because you deserve all the love you didn't get, and more.❤❤❤
Thank you for this comment. I've had to cut that person out of my life after being witness to their abuse to their parents, friends, coworkers, partners and pets over two decades. Saw something wrong from as young as 9/10, when they would throw things at animals and much younger children (incl my sibling), and both verbally and physically abuse their parents. Their parents are lovely, intelligent people from narcissistic families themselves, that really love their child and genuinely had no idea how to handle the entitled, difficult, and abusive behaviour. So the parents enabled this person's behaviour by trying to placate them both materially and emotionally, which made it worse. I stuck by them through so much horrific behaviour, abuse, insults, and more, because I felt bad for them and ended up kind of keeping them around out of a sense of obligation. While the bad behaviour escalated through teen years and solidified in adulthood, they were always abusive. Definitely a case of narcissism emerging from both genetic disposition and over-indulgence. By the time we were in our 20s, I had distanced them to VL contact. NC was from two last straws - first was their discarding of another pet (since turning 18, they had adopted, abused and rehomed 3 cats and a dog) which they forced onto their elderly parents, then adopting another kitten not two months later. Second was finding out that they had been serial-cheating on their long-term, long-suffering partner who they were really, really abusive towards. Couldn't deal with seeing it anymore, said something, they exploded and blocked me. This person's parents are still family friends, and apparently this person is getting even worse with age. I feel so bad for this person's parents, as their overindulgence of their child was a response to their own narc parents' abusive neglectful behaviours, and they did/do everything they can emotionally and financially to help, but everything just reinforces the terrible behaviour of their child. Am really, really worried about elder abuse down the road, as this person is already explosive and physically abusive to their parents. But at the end of the day, I'm really bloody glad I'm NC with this person now. It is not our obligation to stick around for these people, regardless of family ties and childhood bonds. Leaving them to marinate in their own toxicity is the best thing we can do for ourselves to move forward with our lives.
@@chloemorgan1385 @Chloe Morgan Thanks for sharing your experience ! Congratulations, you're FREE now, and although I know life's much harder for us people who had to endure abuse, there's so much time now to experience serenity, joy, learning to live and heal ! Never look back, and remember that YOU are the protagonist of your own life, they tried to steal that from you but you got your power back. There's a whole world to discover out there :) I really empathize with what you described, as someone's whos life been entangled with a psycho?/sociopathic "friend" from age 6 to 16. Your life circumstances are important too - did your parents/teachers/any adults neglect you at the time ? Did you have any other friends/support ? What coping mechanisms and beliefs did you develop, are they healthy ?etc. (as an aspie totally neglected by adults, it took time for me to connect the dots and appropriate my life narrative). Btw I really recommend Pete Walker books on complex PTSD, Dr Teahan and Dr Ravani here on youtube about narcissists. Sending lots of love and courage your way, remember we're all in this together❤🌠
Thank you so much for saying this and for describing your experiences in the comments! I could not relate more and I really really appreciate your words of support. I’m so glad you are healing now. ❤️
I had a narcissistic childhood friend who was spoiled rotten and all the kids in the neighborhood followed her, making her narcissistic behavior that much worse. Later in life, she attended my wedding and ended up bringing home a guy to our house to stay the night. I was mortified when I woke up the next morning. After she left and went home, she friend requested me on Facebook. I accepted and with two hours and I blocked her. I finally told myself enough is enough and the relationship must come to an end From the age of two until the age of 12 1/2 we were neighbors. At 12 1/2 my family moved to another state. Like I said before when she came to my wedding and brought home a guy to spend the night I knew she did not respect me. I’m so glad the relationship is completely over. I never want to see her nor hear from her ever again.
Oh god! My teen years.... So I have a mother who never actually grew up. So when I was a teen, my mom also was a teen. She never tried to understand me, but demanded me to always put her feelings and emotions first. I did not have the fair change to be a free teen (actually a free child for that matter). And it's so good to hear an Indian mother out there understanding what a teen goes through. Ugh, my heart still aches for my teenage self.
My mother is the same. I learned that I am unimportant, that my feelings don't matter, that I am here to be her servant and confident. She used to shower me with complaints regarding my father (even their sex life) as early as I was ten or so.
Same here, she would occasionally steal my clothes if they fit her (I am big in the chest) but much smaller elsewhere since she is 35 years older, she looked like a stage/side show not a mature adult. I used to hear gossip about her... She would flirt with my boyfriends, while my narc dad (covert) would compete with them for my attention (incest here as well as being sold for sex...). It was/is gross and while I never once think fondly of that time, I wonder how diff. life would have been had I not experienced such traumas. Especially, the medical issues I have today at 57.
This one made me emotional. My narcissistic parents took it personally that I was well me. I couldn’t be a child. I had to grow up fast in some ways. I was nerve taught emotional regulation or how to feel safe and bring myself back to safety. Something I am deeply struggling with in my 30s and grieving about. Because it has been a challenge to emotionally regulate myself and help myself feel safe during uncertainty and challenging times. I am deeply grieving this as an adult. My parents took every stage of my development personally and would call me selfish 🙉. The irony. Thank you for explaining this. Also I was misdiagnosed with ADHD
Why did you start of blaming your parents. If you knew something was wrong why didnt you seek help. Her video is not saying parents turned you into a narc. Narcs can be born. Having your emotional regulated doesn't automatically turn you into a narc. You don't even say how they wouldn't let you be s child, which is a damn lie or CPS would have came for them, teachers would have noticed. You are speaking coded which is narc like. You could have been born one and one when was a little kid, too soon to have been made a narc by your parents.
As Dr. Ramani points out children all want their needs met when they want them met. It's up to adults to teach patience, self control and empathy so the child will grow into a caring human being and not so selfish
I will tell you that some kids don't want to learn those things. They'd rather blame, avoid accountability, etc to get their "needs met" by using and abusing others. Narcissism is a choice--in adulthood and earlier. You can do all the right things and still have a child who chooses to be like this.
There are several areas in this video that lead to some serious concerns. I watched counselors and therapist refrain from identifying truths about my children (3 of them) that did cause them some serious problems when they turned 13 to 16, 17 - 19 and then 20 - 23. They chose not to diagnose them and ignored my input as their parent when I knew the dynamics of each of my children. Son 1: One was self medicating, since 13. He was clearly dealing with ADD/ADHD; he started smoking marijuana at 13 all the way through 25. At some point it ended up being laced frequently with K-2. I was ignored by the counselors frequently. So my son ended up unstable emotionally, psychologically and mentally; as a result. He ended up with “Arrested Development” emotionally, as well. All the counselors and therapist kept chalking up his behavior to be just adolescent issues, when I knew other wise, as an observant parent. Because I did not have a degree in psychology or was not a doctor in psychiatry; I was ignored and my son paid the price. Most counselors and therapist and doctors are not properly trained to recognize psychological mental disorders. I took him to many (over 20). At times they rely too much on the DSM. Ignoring the parents input or trivializing the parents input about the child is helping to create the mess we see to day; narcissistic pandemic. I had to finally place my son in a Psychiatric Ward at the age of 18, 19 and 23, as a result of all the professionals choosing not to place a suitable label on his behavior early on in his life as a child at 12 or 13. I saw the signs earlier; he was dealing with ADD/ADHD. This is sad. I watched my son struggle as a result of professionals ignoring and minimizing his parent’s perspective. He scrambled his brain with the K-2, as a result. After I started being more direct with the professionals; they finally assessed him with a Comorbidity related condition, as well. Along with the ADD/ADHD; he ended up developing Bipolar Disorder; now he is on medicine which has helped him. He tried to fix his executive functions early and almost destroyed himself. Son 2: Is also dealing with ADD/ADHD. I know the signs, but since I was not a doctor or licensed professional. I was ignored. So he is undiagnosed and is now a full blown Narcissist (undiagnosed) as an adult. I can not tell him anything, because he sees everyone beneath him and he has no empathy at all. I tried to encourage all my children to develop this area with a emotionally unhealthy wife (Diagnosed with ADD/ADHD years ago, but failed to disclose this until all three children were over 20; sad, my ex wife is a full blown undiagnosed Narcissist). I was ignored; exception he has my level headiness to offset his behavior, so he goes under the radar while at work in the medical professional. I know him. He becomes unhinged under any stress or when he feels slighted. There is a hidden rage ever present in all three children that is similar to my ex-wife’s rages; it gets ugly when they are under duress of any kind. Daughter 1: Only exception. I forced the counselor this time to make a diagnoses when my daughter turned 18, after the counselors and therapist encouraged her to continue her reckless adolescent behavior as a teen, which led her to getting an STD for life. This broke my heart. They ignored my input entirely and my daughter paid the price to her own detriment by ignoring what I knew to be true about her irresponsible behavior patterns. She started doing pot at 12-13; self-medicating and others stuff, getting involved sexually with boys, involved in risky inappropriate behavior and so on. The counselors and therapist (and my wife) encouraged the behavior for some asinine reason; Blew my mind.😡 My daughter has been diagnosed with ADD. She is now on medication and doing fine, except she is also now dealing with Arrested Development issues like her brothers (and her mother). All are adults (23, 29 and 31); except they become like two year olds when they hear the word “no” or feel “slighted or perceive a slight” in any way. **** Tell me; what was I to do when I understood the dynamics of each child while being married to a manipulative malignant narcissistic wife (with ADD)? My ex-wife went to counseling and therapy with me, thus I was ignored and appeared to be the one with a mental illness, because I would bring attention to our children’s behaviors that did not make sense to me at all, and were inappropriate. This is sad; I find too many doctors, therapist and counselors are poorly trained in recognizing psychological issues in children during their adolescence years, thus excessively use the excuse that it’s just “adolescent behavior”. Parents are to be viewed as being too hard on their children and so on. The therapist and counselor minimize the parents concerns; telling them to be patient and basically do nothing to help their child properly deal with undiagnosed mental issues at a young age. The earlier the diagnosis is made by actually listening to a parent’s true perspective about the child’s behavior; is essential and critical, the sooner the child can be properly helped. By time a child pretty much gets past 16, its too late; the damage is irreversible. I have three, and know this for a fact; all you can then do is help mitigate the problem with medication after they harmed themselves. Professional’s need to stop using cookie cutter approaches to addressing mental disorders and issues in people. Counselors and therapist need to stop trivializing, minimizing, ignoring parents views about their children. They need to properly observe and use the parents input (we tend to know our children, because we are around them the most) to help make a proper assessment earlier, leading to the right diagnosis; else other mental issues will result. (A fact.)😓
My heart breaks for you friend. But what can we do to change this. Dr Ramani is always interested in our comments about Narcs, I just hope that she or Richard Grannon or Sam Vankin turn their attention to this subject and how to advise and support.
Ya funny how it ends up as adolescence and all you need is therapy and that the therapist can coach both of you through the ordeal that ends up with money in their pockets and hardships and disappointments after disappointment for you.
Yes, the youngest narc I’ve witnessed was an 8 year old girl at my son’s school, she loved playing control games, scapegoating and manipulating other kids. I advised my son to keep his distance, the only thing you can do with a narc, no matter what age, is to disengage. No good could come out of trying to reason with them.
As a foster adopt parent i have watched a very disregulated 10 year old develop into a full blown adult narcissist. His behaviors were always extremely outside the norm.
Yes. My 16 year old son meets 9/9 criteria. He is impossible to parent. No one talks about this. There are no resources because everyone is reluctant to diagnose this. I know it is not bipolar, there is no mania. It MAY be BPD, but there is so much grandiosity and definitely a lack of empathy, self confessed even.
Hey, I would love to be in contact with another mom who is dealing with narc teens. I agree with everything you said. Do you have narcissists and sociopaths on your side of the family? On your sons fathers side? For me, its rampant on my side, I am saying that there are around 7 in my immediate family and on my childs father (ex husband) is a sociopath and narcissist and so is his mom and sister. I'm surrounded and have been forever. Only to start seeing the same in my young teen. Its really difficult without a support system. Would love to listen if you need an ear
@@aloysiusdevanderabercrombi470 exactly that’s y I washed my damn hands and I’m done. I have a 14 year old piece of shyt living in my home who’s a threat to my household and my daughters. He comes in at all times of the night and as I’m writing this it’s 2:53 and he still ain’t came in yet. I’m current waiting on the cops for about an hr but I made a report on his ass not coming in. He is in a mental health school and since he’s been there he’s gotten worst cuz now he feels like he’s untouchable and he walk around here like he’s grown. When people refer to him as my son I feel so out of place and disgusted. I’m waiting for him to get a residential placement so he will continue his stay there and only home on weekends which is up to me if I want him there or not. I can’t wait
I also worked in an intensive therapeutic setting with teenagers, and although when they are children and teens it's too early to put the label on them officially, I can tell you there are kids who do NOT show sign of any other other diagnoses (such as ODD, ADHD, conduct disorder, or autism), who are well beyond the norms of "difficult child/teen," who engage in narcissistic abuse with those they are friends with or otherwise, with extremely impaired empathy. It's not that they can't follow rules or have conduct issues- many of them are good students who follow all the rules "on the surface" who are cruel and dysfunctional in all their relationships. They are textbook narcissistic abusers to those they are close to. If your child or teen is like this, don't just wait it out or think you must be overreacting. Get them intensive therapy with a specialist who understands narcissism before it's too late, because these traits must be treated as early as possible or you are dealing with an intractable adult with all the same behaviors.
Just like most things in psychology, it all exists on a spectrum and depends on the severity. I'd say the most extremely narcissistic teenagers almost always end up narcissistic as adults. Most normal teenagers will be selfish, but will have moments of empathy that shine through. I would say the ones that are truly narcissistic don't just shit the nest, but shit on and manipulate the world at large, including their peers
My sister was about 7 or 8 when she started targeting certain children at school. She used to say to me "you know that girl in class 3....I hate her, don't you?" It made me cringe and I couldn't understand why she had this hatred inside her. Then the other girls all turned up one day wearing badges which read 'I hate ****' (my sister's name). The headteacher told my mother who didn't even ask why those girls did that. But I knew why! They were giving her a taste of her own medicine.They took matters into their own hands because the adults weren't looking to understand the situation. And it didn't work because my sister played the innocent victim. My mother died thinking my sister was wonderful and I that I was the bad mad child. My sister turned my brothers against me and flirted, and even dated, my boyfriends. She destroyed our family and many other lives. So yes. This experience convinced me that some children show dangerous tendencies early on. Maybe if my mother had ever challenged my sister's behaviour she might have turned into a normal human being?
A covert narc ex childhood friend of mine triangulated and ruined my 13th birthday party by manipulating and convincing the other kids to leave my party and see another movie leaving me isolated as my parents had trusted we’d all get along. He moved away that year to another state, but 12 years later he reached out to me trying to wiggle his way back into my life after his wife had left him by “ghosting” him. He was very much woe is me “Victim victim victim victim” and when he was drunk, he would admit to being VERY jealous and envious of me and also made very disturbing comments about shooting people up. When he thought I was hooked back into him as a friend, he immediately started up with the passive aggressive barbs, but I shut that down quickly and moved him out of my life. I could see why his ex wife was so scared of him that she felt the need to slip out in the night and serve him divorce papers in the mail. He was a Narc when were 12 years old when he ruined my birthday party. I very much believe this stuff starts in childhood.
If they are raised by a narcissistic parent....most definitely because the old narcissist lives vicariously through their child. Especially if the child is an only golden child.
I had a friend from the time I was 8-25. I distanced myself after high school because she was such a terrible friend. I see now that she was a cover narcissist. I have never seen a child act the way she acted (I've worked with children a lot during summers at summer camp). A few highlights: She HATES the word hypocrite, because once when I was 9 my sister and I called her a hypocrite because she got mad at someone for doing something, then did it herself. 18 years later and she still freaks out when you even joke about the word "hypocrite". When I was 12 I went away on vacation and came back and she was giving me the silent treatment. She was my only "friend" in gr. 7, so I was pretty hurt. She cruely bullied me for the school year, then decided she wanted me back and I took her back. She was a chronic liar (I knew that as a child, but didn't know her lying could stem from a personality disorder). She would lie, then I would call her out on it, she would deny it and tell me I was "attacking" her and I was being mean, then she would start crying (making everyone believe she was the victim), give me the silent treatment. She would make up feeling sick to manipulate people around her. She is 26 is now and hasn't changed. I don't want to argue with a psychologist here, but even as a child I could see that there was something wrong and abnormal about my friend lol. It wasn't normal child or teen stuff.
I had a very similar experience with a “best friend” From age 5-12. She had all the signs of narcissistic abuse behavior with me and everything you’re describing here too. It was so hard being best friends with her because she was so possessive, belittling, controlling, and gaslighting that it seriously damaged my self-esteem and even my idea of what I deserved or who I could be as a friend. I wish I hadn’t met her so young. She was basically my first best friend so I didn’t have any basis for comparison for a while and thought I must be defective. I realize she was enacting the exact behaviors she watched her malignant narcissist mother do to their meek and accommodating step dad. Ugh.
Yeah. However, the kids who are manipulators often had to have learned how to do so by watching adults do so. They may naturally have less empathy too, but they usually haven't had it modeled to them by a parent, I think.
Almost all adolescents will dabble in manipulative behaviors at some point. As Dr. Ramini pointed out, kids and adolescents are learning how to get their needs met. When they are kids often their needs are easy enough, and parents indulge. In adolescents their needs often seem like wants, since they need to feel independent and adults sometimes have to say no for their safety, as well as other teens and young adults are more self absorbed at that phase so they will experiment to see how to get their wants/needs met. It's the job of adults to sit them down and talk to them to understand underlying needs and help them meet them in a safe productive way and teach communication as the appropriate tool over manipulation.
@@gower72 I wasn’t talking about someone who dabbles. The person in question is very adept at this behavior, has caused a great deal of damage to others, has threatened to murder other children in the family. This person is an adult now and doesn’t appear to have matured out of it.
My darkest period of my life was from age 6-12 when my ''best friend'' who was the same age as me gaslighted, manipulated, degraded, humiliated me. I noticed how superficial and cold this person was and my little child self constantly hoped that she would learn and change as she got older. But she never really changed. I didn't have the tools at the time to know what was going on. I was someone who was taught to put everyone elses needs before my own, so this friend obviously took advantage of that. But her behaviour towards me carried on in secret, no one really noticed and then eventually it all ended when I became bed bound with fatigue for 6 months age 12. Needless to say I cut contact then. But these types of toxic relationships kept cropping up for me until I started focusing more on deeper healing. From my experience therefore, I really think some people are just born more empathetic and some aren't. I really think that some people are born narcissists. But I guess from a parents perspective it is good to not label and deal openly and take it as it comes with your children, because they are still your responsibility.
I'm so sorry you went through that. My child had an abusive Narcissistic friend too. Fortunately, it only went on for about a year. Because of having to deal with my Narc brother, I was able to see the signs, and able to help my child to stop being abused and manipulated. My child and I, like you, are normal, kind, giving people, that can be snatched up by a Narc. But, what I have come to realize is that we can be stronger than we think. And we can refuse to let anyone hurt us like this again.
@LeilaJane, I am so sorry you went through this, but thank you so much for sharing! Reading your story felt like you were telling my story almost exactly with my best friend from age 5-12 (except I was able to cut contact when we started at different schools thankfully). Not enough people are talking about this “beyond bullying” behavior from childhood “friends” that sounds and feels very much like a possessive, controlling, belittling, manipulative, abusive spouse, and few people can really envision how a child can enact all the narcissist abuse tactics with as much precision as an adult, but they can! I have trouble explaining to others just how damaging this experience was for my early life (and I’m still healing from the lifelong after effects). These formative experiences can really do a number on you, especially if this terrible treatment of you was a secret, you were just trying to do what you were taught and be a nice, loyal friend, and you had no support around this at the time. Thank you so much for sharing and I hope you are healing.
I have just gone no contact with my only child . She is 13. She was the most wonderful full of light throughout her childhood. An year ago started to behave in a very nasty way. Silent treatment, gaslighting, stone walking, devaluation, arrogance, self entitlement, mean towards me but not to her mother as far as I know , never thankful , never apologized and blamed me whenever confronted. I feel horrible next to her , anxious and an out of place dumb person. I have no authority whatsoever. I’m out . Her mother trust her and not me
I can attest to there being children who are impervious to other's suffering and I'm kind of surprised that Dr. Ramani didn't touch on that more in this video.
@@claired1336 I hope Dr. Ramani rethinks this. I realize she is speaking generalities but this missed the mark in my opinion and reading other's comments they felt similarly.
@@susanrhodes5681 I agree! I think this video really shows that Dr. Ramani's primary focus is working with adults because she is minimizing something that is very real. I have watched every video in her "narcissistic abuse" series because I had a childhood relationship (pre-puberty) with a "best friend" who displayed EVERY one of the traits of a narcissistic abuser towards me and was quite awful to me in private, yet rule-following, "nice," and got good grades (so good towards the outside world). I had been eagerly awaiting Dr. Ramani touching on narcissism in children/teens and I was very disappointed by this. I understand that Dr. Ramani doesn't want people over-pathologizing their kids, especially for normal "teenage difficulties," that they'll grow out of, but I'm shocked that she basically said children can't possess these traits and minimized the experiences of those of us who have first-hand experienced it or worked in a professional therapeutic capacity with young people and teens who are budding narcissists. I think a lot of people will watch this video looking for answers and will end up feeling confused and invalided when they have had experiences with children/teens with high narcissistic traits.
@@claired1336 my one nephew out of three (who's father was a severe narc), showed signs at about three. His brother, 18 mo. younger was bullied by him and his mother did not respond as strongly as I would have. Since she and I were both raised by a severe narc mother and a covert moderate father, I think she may have not been sensitized as she might have been. She was the golden child while I was the black sheep. We both married narcs. I repeatedly tried to get her to leave him (but he made good money), I even offered to allow her and the boys to live with me until she could start her new life. She seemed interested but then changed her mind and then resented me. Now she seems almost as serious a narc as her spouse. Both of her sons are brilliant, but the younger one has serious social issues (quiet, brooding and overweight) and has always lived with his brother narc (who has his girlfriend with them). When I invited them to move in, her non-narc son was showing signs of narcissism which confused me (but Dr. Ramani explained that can be a sign of fatigue from not having needs met). I said to my sister, please do it for your son (non-narc) before he becomes like his dad. My other sis is a narc, her daughter went no contact in college. It was very obvious my sister was a narc way before puberty. I went no contact 30 years ago (I'm almost 57) and I have never regretted it. I usually thumbs up, I decided to thumbs down, my first time ever for Dr. Ramani.
My middle son who is 21 years old. He is very selfish and self centered. I thought it was maybe he was just having a childhood moment. Some kids are this way and do change. No, he is still this way! Along with a dose of bring rude and disrespectful towards me, his little brother who is 19, my mom (his grandmother), and whoever else? 🤷🏾♀️ He gets what he wants out of you and is a big liar! Including a know it all with a smart mouth! So yes he is narcissistic! No matter how much love and respect I've shown him? I definitely don't get it in return. At this point in life? I don't care. Not sounding harsh. Just honest. I love my son. I just don't deal with him. If he was ever in any major trouble or danger? Yes, I would help! I love myself and my peace too much to let another individual to disrupt it! Grown children or not? I don't deserve nor need that treatment.
Yes. Having raised my daughter and experienced the narcissistic abuse, having to try to protect her brother from the same abuse and finally ending contact when she was 22 tells me that the answer is workout a doubt yes.
I one of my classes, one of the kids (8) is a bully. She bullies me and the other kids too. The owner of the school (private school) says that she is testing me and it'll take her some months to accept me, that a part of the other kids know her and that we cannot talk to the mother about her child's attitude problems because she is not better than the child. I asked her to offer the child private lessons because it is not good for her nor for the others kids who have to babysit her instead of learning and practicing the subject. What shocks me is that everybody talks about the bully and about how to make things better for her but nobody thinks about the other kids in the class and they are NOT ok with the situation.
I notice teenagers respond most to adults who don’t judge them, engage, and meet them at their level. Teenagers are naturally rebellious. They’re rebelling for their own identities. It’s healthy rebellion. Teenagers who are always compliant grow up to seek authoritarism later on in adulthood, with mental disorders bordering on Narcissism with a severe lack of empathy and critical thinking.
So trying to clarify your first sentence. They respond to adults who don't judge them. They respond to adults who don't engage. They respond to adults who don't meet them at their level. Am I understanding this correctly. Or is it that they respond to adults who don't judge them, adults that do engage and do meet them at their level? Struggling with a teenager who is very disturbed.
Going on strike is a phrase that indicates discontinuing one's duties without quitting the position requiring those duties, usually until some demands are met. In employment, people who go on strike stop working to protest something about their job without actually quitting their job.
I'm 3 months free from 15 year marriage with narc, and very worried about my 17 yo. She's been struggling with her MH (mostly because of his behavior) for some years, but now he's gone, it's like she's stepped up into his place with nasty comments and gaslighting 😔 I really think some videos on how to ensure we don't turn our kids into narcissists when they have a narc parent would be so beneficial! 🙏
I respectfully disagree. If the parent and/or surrounding family members are narcissistic, the abusive and negative behaviors are being passed down with or without realization to the child/children
yes, and with all due respect I think dr Ramani is not a child therapist. If all children are selfish, that only makes it easier for the narcissist to hide, but selfishness is also a spectrum, and some are clearly waaaay more selfish/manipulative/vengeful/entitled etc. than others. And as a scapegoat I'm not even sure if really ALL the children are selfish .
This advice was never available for me and my upbringing. It was out of financial reach but also it was looked upon as a weakness to seek therapy. "That's for crazy rich people" was the agenda verbalized when the topic came up. In todays world this information is at the tip of your fingers as long as you can become aware enough to acknowledge that there is something wrong. It took a narcissist to come into my life to allow me to see the deficits I acquired as a child and the lack of self awareness I developed all in the name of self protection. I look back and I see not only the upbringing of myself and my siblings but also how my parents were raised and how their parents were raised. The information that is provided on this channel is priceless and it's free.
My son was diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder and ADD/ADHD (not hyper), when he was 7. I ignored the ODD diagnosis because I thought it was being based on some tantrums that I thought were "just tantrums". I have been a single mom and 21 years later, my son is DEFINITELY narcissistic! I have been wondering if there is a direct connection. I will spare you the long story, which is how I ended up on this channel. He still lives with me, I'm the supply and verbal punching bag, disabled and financially dependent, and I'm trying to get out. If I could go back and do it over again.....boundaries would be set and strictly adhered to. I see all the mistakes I made and I can't unring the bell.
i agree, we shouldn't label a child to their face. To me the label isn't necessary, but seeing the signs and behaviors was. My child was being emotionally tortured by a friend, and having an understanding of what was going on helped me to help my child get free from the toxic relationship.
I was all of these by my narc fostermother. I was a problem child and the scapegoat. I copied her bahaviour in some areas like gaslighting, lying sometimes. I wasn't manipulating others for fun, I had just and still have cptsd and was terrified of being punished, humiliated and hurt. So I tried to avoid it the only way I knew and that was the way of my narc family. I never liked it and when I was a bit older as a teenager I tried to distance myself from it and unlearn that behaviour. I don't have any traits left, but I remember a few situations especially under 18 where I didn't react well. I was just scared out of my mind and saying, this didn't happen or I didn't say it like that. It was what I knew. I was never labeled as a narc, but if, I could see why. It's important to see if a child is reenacting a behaviour, because they don't know better or if they have the underlying issues like not being able to regulate themselfs, huge super ego ect.
Wow, it's like the narcs just want to hurt you as much as they can. My foster Mom hated my guts. She would always berate me. She planted some pills in my purse and.made sure I got in trouble, with her and the guy who ran the whole thing. John Walker. I understand everything you said. The reason I was in a foster home was because I had been molested by my own father. Before that I was raised by a schizophrenic Mom and a foster Dad who hated me, I got beat alot by both of them. As an adult I was an emotional cripple and a narc magnet. I'm married to one, it's been 23 years. I feel like an emotional mess I'm starting to hate an want revenge. I was not like that before. I hate being like that. I wonder if I will ever heal. We can pray to a higher power. God is there for us. God bless you and protect you.
Hi@@lisacurtis8162 I can relate. I was never narcissistic until I attempted escaping my narcissist family and ended up in another narcissistic situation. Only The Word of God seems to be helping my healing since it is the only source that does not coddle anyone about their capacity to become depraved. It is also the only book completely against unhealthy narcissism (2 Timothy 3:1-9). I struggle with revenge every day, but I just try to remind myself that we aren’t to take vengeance. Self-defense, however, is not the same. A passage that really helped me recently was Psalm 73, maybe it will help you as well.
Yes. I was a victim of a teenage narcissist whom befriended me at age 15. I didn’t know it at the time, but looking back all the signs were there...grandiosity, lack of empathy, huge sense of entitlement. A mask was worn that made you see this fun, outgoing person that everyone loved. She demanded the attention of the room. But I witnessed the lying, stealing, triangulation, envy, cheating all to benefit her ego. I was eventually devalued and discarded. I know her 25 years later and her behavior/personality is textbook NPD.
My nephew is definitely a Narc. Extremely spoiled, coddled and entitled. His Mom is a Narcissist as well. The older he is getting, the worse it gets. No emotional regulation. He can't handle disappointment. He throws temper tantrums if he doesn't get his way ( almost a teenager, not a small child). He is the spitting image of his mothers behavior.
My narcissitic mom would bring up music we listened to whenever she needed to further her argument that we were evil kids. Just a couple years ago she brought up the music my brother listened to in 1991, not even kidding! This video is not about narc moms, but my mom still will bring up stuff from our childhoods that we did wrong, when we were just kids. We are in our 30s and 40s now, been no contact 1 year couldnt take it anymore!
@Spoonie. Exactly my story and I was usually so shocked beyond disbelief until I finally figured out she’s a narcissistic mother ( thanks to Dr Ramani) . The worst part is she came to live with me my covert narcissistic spouse on and off for about 7 years . The worst mistake of my life but thank God I’ve gone no contact with her for a year now and I’m working on healing and moving on from the narc spouse. Very demonic personality.
My narc mother does this as well when we’ve had arguments and I point out her behavior. She will bring up the past and say I was never a good child and how I used to ditch school in jr high... I’m always thinking HUH!! I’m 34 now. Sure, I ditched school but I never dropped out and I even finished HS a little early. I think she purposely likes to confuse me when I’m onto her poor behaviors.
Narcissism is hereditary, and predisposed for the traits of this difficult mental disorder. Looking back you can see the early signs before an official diagnosis can be made.
Children learn ways to communicate and deal with others from their parents. It could be that they're just learning the wrong script. I wonder if the kids would grow up to be narcs if they were separated from their narcissistic parents at birth and raised by loving people.
@@hxub9626 Yes! I have seen an example of this (father died when child was baby). There seems to be something that is genetic. The child is now a grown man and has an amazingly similar personality as his father. Very likable and manipulative behind the scenes. It’s uncanny really.
The BLU PHOENIX FLAME SKY, I can see this could be true, as someone I know to be very narcissistic to the point of dangerous antisocial personality disorder, never knew his father, who died when he was a newborn. His mother was a kind and compassionate person, who told me that as he was growing up, it amazed her how his thinking was so unlike hers, but just like his father's, even though he never knew him, and no one else in the family was like this. Where else could it have come from except through genetics?
I work with a lot of kids, and some of them have all the boxes checked. From as early as 2-3 years old. Maybe it’s because their parents / caregivers have narcissistic tendencies? But even with siblings brought up in the same household, there are some more predisposed to narcissistic behavior.
I have worked with lots of kids and teens in a therapeutic capacity and have seen the same thing. I think Dr. Ramani minimized the reality of kids/teens with high narcissistic traits, and I hope she rethinks this video.
I have a 10 year old grand daughter and she Definity displays narcissistic behavior. I don't see her but twice per year and the rest of the time video calls. the video calls are always pleasant and enjoyable. Last summer due to unforeseen circumstances she ended up spending the summer with us. It was eye-opening! As long as she got her way all was fine, but if there was something she didn't like she had no qualms letting us know. I started noticing that she was running our household. She demanded that my husband (her grandfather) does not sing or play the guitar, which he performs on a daily basis, something I truly enjoy about my husband. She made new friends in our neighborhood, which were short lived, they stopped wanting to come over and play without explanation. She was uncooperative and refused to engage in activities. You may say all of the above was normal childhood behavior for her age, and I thought so too at first, but I caught her many times in gaslighting, embellishing and manipulating us. When I would confront her on something she always had an plausible explanation, except for I would catch her lying, but she would deny any responsibility. I also notice she had no sympathy for other and didn't care how other's were affected.. the more I tried to teach her the lessons of caring about her actions or take responsibility, the more I would get frustrated because there just was no getting through to her. When she called her mother , mom would sympathize with her woes and say oh poor baby, when you get home we'll do this or get you that. I truly don't thing there is any turning this around, especially since mom cuddles this behavior. She wants to come back next summer but I have already decided that is not something I choose to subject myself to. My husband understands but he struggles with this because this is his granddaughter. I don't want to blatantly admit I don't want her to come, and am hoping it will work itself out somehow. I just spend another week were her this winter and it just reenforced that there is no teaching her lessons on how to behave and be considerate of others, she simply doesn't care or is capable of acknowledging she did anything wrong. By the age of 10, child should already be passed the "me, me " phase, not this child, everything is about her!!!!
@Humble Wonder Yes, not seeing the child. If your environment doesn't provide dynamic reactions to you, or continually tries to tell you something which is clearly not true, this is a failure to "see" the child. They can be the center of attention yet completely invisible. In fact, going against the script created for them and expressing themselves or rejecting all these things put on them is implicitly punished.
absolutely. It starts with a perceived injustice that they refuse to get over or accept. My daughter came home from first grade many years ago (22 yrs to be exact) and demanded to know why we couldn't get a horse ranch. I bust up laughing but she was earnest in wanting a real answer. When I told her that horses and the care of horses are too expensive and we just couldn't afford it. She was sincerely pissed . There was a girl in her class who received all of the adoration of the teacher and this little girl happened to have had a horse ranch. Or, I should say her family did. My daughter thought if I could just get the horse ranch I too would be well loved by the teacher . That was the fork in the road for her. She never got over it and came to hate that little girl in first grade. She would tell me that she would get 2 little boys at recess to run up to the horse ranch girl and push her down . That shaped my daughter's life forever. Narcissists from an early age have an entitlement and become greatly bitter if they can't get what they want.
When I was little I believed if I have that sky blue , shiny training pack like the girl in my class and the beautiful long hair I would be lovable. Now I do have a shiny pack and long hair. ☺ I learned long ago it's not the cloths makes a fine human. I love myself today. ☺ I'm sorry your daughter turn out different.
Perhaps taking more time to work with her when she came to you for an explanation instead of laughing, especially when it was a big issue in her life. She resorted to anger and hate instead of understanding that people's circumstances are different. At that age she didn't know what "we can't afford it" means. She may have felt better if perhaps she saw her as an ally instead of an opponent
@@terib5467 , there are many times I wished to go back in time to see if I could have done things differently. I was a full time stay at home mom so I don't think that was the problem. My laugh was spontaneous but probably not helpful at the time. I truly wished I home schooled her instead.
Christina H. Wow, that's a powerful story. You sound like a good mother - you didn't support her need to 'demand' when she was in first grade. My parents would have laughed me out of the house and down the road! If your daughter is now having to support herself, she might begin to understand. I think all children are dreamers, and of course don't understand money yet, but it's how they evolve in their relation to money that's important. Because of the sensible parents that I had, I have well learned how to stretch a dollar and live well within my means. ❤️
Dear Dr. Ramani, thank you so much for this content.I have been one of this community members to have requested pointers on teens' behavioral pattern understanding. And I cannot thank you enough! The content was so informative and brought me immense relief :) More content in this area is always welcome, Dr. Ramani. Please and thank you 💞🙏
I Agree... As adults we really lack a knowledge about such topics. I also experienced it as adolescent. In last years of high school I was hit by my first episode of Depression. I felt so tired, was constantly sleeping during classes. I was a good student with good grades, already oriented for medical university, so some of the teachers were reducing the load of work for me, but no one suggested to seek for a professional medical help... I had some suspicions about depression, but was really resentful of seeking help. In summer after graduation everything got better, but now I understand that early medical treatment and help would've have been impacted my life in a much better way and maybe prevented further development of disease.
Every classroom, even of small children seem to have 2 or 3 very difficult children, who do not think that the rules apply to them. I have often wondered if they grew out of it as adults, or if they became narcissistic adults.
I think YES, my ex best friend was! I met her when we were in grade 7... she mentally tortured me and there was no boundaries, she would get jealous if I made new friends. It’s like few of us had to take permission from her to do literally anything. I am 26 now and I am glad I got rid of her this year. According to my old friends who knew her b4 me, the narc ex friend has always been like that since grade 1 or long b4 I know her.
It is painful to see so many people so dismissive of normal adolescent and children behaviours and labeling/disliking them instead of recognizing that theyre learning and still malleable at that age. Be the role model. Demonstrate the empathy that you want to see; look behind the curtain and empathise...don't validate the inappropriate (yet age appropriate) behaviour by saying, 'Yup, broken kid'. Kids become what you tell them they are. Catch them doing the right things and give them opportunities to succeed...it has an effect. At this age as teachers and extended family members, you have more of an impact than parents might. Encourage...don't dismiss.
My older brother was diagnosed with sociopathic tendencies when he was 16 and I was 12. It does exist. He did everything possible to extinguish my light, including attempted murder when I was 7. My mother with narcissistic tendencies covered his actions. I’m finally in therapy at 44 years old.
i babysat an 8 year old narcissistic child a few years ago and he was pretty awful. his background was a loving, yet slightly abusive and most of all coddling mother. the father hardly paid attention to him and so he most likely felt abandoned; plus they were separating. he was charismatic even at such a young age and charmed everyone he wished to charm. i suspect the mother had issues w/ babysitters and they would quit on him even me after a few months, and she herself told me that i couldnt be nice to him because he would take advantage, and he did. he felt i was weak because i lacked proper boundaries, and so i had to become tougher and very strict but he was still kind of abusive. i was soft on him at first because i sensed his sadness, he had dead eyes even at that age, no real childish joy. i wish i had been closer to the family and advised to take him to therapy which probably wouldve helped at such a tender age, but i doubt they wouldve listened to me anyways.....kids dont really have empathy and need to be taught it and encouraged to be compassionate but in abusive environments they more likely suffer arrested development and never grow up emotionally
My 16 year old son is definitely one, just like his father. I see the making of a teenage narcissist, that will turn into an adult narcissist. I see where or how it starts and his dad had a huge part in h turning out to be this way. He would never make him have consequences or anyone correct him, now we have a monster. He has lights me, just like his dad does…. I’m overwhelmed and exhausted and that is what has brought me to this video…..
What about a kid who is incessantly cruel to their younger sibling? What about a kid who gaslights their younger sibling? Not just selfishness, but regular cruelty followed by hoovering?
I'm gonna guess (before watching) I think kids can mirror the narcissistic behaviors of their narcissistic parents or other people in their life.... but not necessarily be narcissists themselves
I like this response because I genuinely believe there are also alot of adults who have narcissistic traits through learned behaviour and mirroring but arent necessarily narcissists theyve just normalised the behaviour.
@@jugalicious123 I agree. I grew up with a narcisist mom.. I used to pretend people to read my mind, now I grew up of it and I actually despise this type of behavior. I remember that my mom used to teach those "tricks" with people.
She said around mid to late twenties, and from what I have seen; I have to disagree. I really wish she would do another video on the topic. Because 20 and older seems to be ages where basically 90% of the development is already done. We as humans never stop growing until the day we die, but telling people are ''learning'' being adults when they are literally within the age of adulthood doesn't make sense. Yes we learn, but we don't learn how to be humane when we are 20,21,22... or 25 for that matter.
Yes. My stepdaughter was a master manipulator and had adult knowledge that a 5yr old should not have had. I found out that the whole family had problems in this area and by that I mean the ex-wife, sister-in-law and, stepdaughter. I regretted ever getting into this relationship, it was a nightmare... it cost me alot of loss for 20yrs
So is mine, now out of the house and still manages to poison, subliminally create issues, poison younger brother who still lives with me - and adored me until on Mothers day yelled at me Im not his mother! My emotions got the best of me and I yelled bacn "im the closest thing you have to it" - between the step grandma & my step daugther, they have continued to brainwash my step son, almost switching him from loving me to hate me! This has been the root of many if not 99.9% of arguments with my husband who doesnt see it, thinks im crazy, and does not confront their disrespect neither sets limits- it seems useless sometimes, I even feel not valued enough by husband who fails to stand up for me, and deman respect for me- so lately I started standing up for myself! They dont have to love me, but they absolutely have to respect me! It is hurtful to watch my hubby become papa bear and stand up and protect/yield his kids from any possible emotional harm, owning their responsibility and facing consecuences may cause them- but yet when it comes to me is an open door to walk all over me! It takes a kind, not sure what kind yet!
There is a difference also with someone who is self centered and a narc. A self centered person may just see themselves only but have zero care of what others think, because they cant. Then those grow up in 20’s and start realizing there are other things going on , not just their life. A narc seems to need from day one, attention, power, and the actions follow. Much different.
My stepson is 12. Incredibly book smart but has zero self regulation, empathy and cannot stop lying. He recently received the ADHD diagnosis. He has stolen things from neighbor's houses, gaslights me a ton, tries to spin my words as if I am being mean to him, lies about everything (that is not an exaggeration) and has lied about friends of mine trying to sabotage my relationships . I feel like I am going crazy because he consistently makes me doubt the reality of situations. I am walking on eggshells around him because I don't feel safe to be myself around him. I have worked with Borderline people and teens in the past and I am seeing some very concerning similarities. Getting him into therapy was my first step so we will see how this goes.
This was very eye opening to me. I came to this video in search of answers as to why my grandson was/is behaving the way he is, which has resulted in leaving us entirely out of his life although he claims that he loves us. It didn't make sense but his mother, who he is now estranged from, says he's a narcissist just like his father. All that to say that when you talked about looking to how the teen is around his peers and others is more a reflection of who they are (paraphrased), it really makes sense. He still remains highly empathetic, engaging, and protective of his peers, particularly in sports. My worry that he may worsen as he gets older seems unwarranted at this time. As I watch how he interacts around others (although I sure wish I was included), it seems I need not be quite as concerned as I have been. The estrangement is so very hard but I pray that, in time, he'll come into his own self and will include us once again.
Yes, kids and teens can be narcissistics. I met a girl who was one. The worst person I've ever met. She manipulated me and tried to do the worst things to me, and even abused another person before me. The scariest part is that she has a victims chain, she always looks out for a new toy. I met other people that might be narcissistics too... I don't know, sometimes I feel that my low self steem attracts this kind of people. Anyway, I'm far away from them now
Dr. Ramani, I love your videos. But, I have to admit I am disappointed in this one. First, narcissism does not magically appear once a person turns 18yo. There are indicators and signs long before adulthood. Behaviors of an emerging narcissist may be "normal." But what is not normal is the intensity, frequency and evolution of those behaviors. And this is usually the understanding that is lacking when parents of an emergent narcissist seek professional help and are counseled to try harder or love more. Second, while I know you are adressing the majority, this comes across as yet another, "If you turn out narcissistic, it's your parent's fault." For those of us who do deal with the "rare" and "uncommon," especially in the foster/adopt arena, it enforces blame on adoptive (or step) parents for creating an issue they are desperately trying to solve. Third, you have completely stripped children of their autonomy. Yes, they are still developing. However, they still have autonomy and can willfully lie, manipulate, triangulate and gaslight just to see how far they can get.
Yes, yes, you're right, narcissism doesn't magically appear when the child comes of age. When the parent sees the signs, even in early childhood, the only guidance given is love them more, or else. It's so unhelpful. I really want to know if there's a way to turn them back on the road to narcissism while they're not fully developed. Some 10 year olds can be surprisingly mature emotionally and show empathy, some of them are absolutely empty or rage filled. I've seen it with siblings, same parents. I really want to know what to do with the problematic teen while they're still young, if there's even a way to correct their ways. I just don't like the practice that you should love your child no matter what, but if they turn out to be a horrible person, you're to blame, no matter how much you loved them. I see children around me who obviously have the traits and parents are helpless, though some of them are desperately seeking help. I am not a really healthy person, but I'm working on stuff. Some of my children are quite difficult, and I refuse to let them stay liket that. Some of their stuff is truly shocking to me. I talk to them a lot, we discuss emotions, behaviors, relationships, whys and hows etc. The more difficult the child is, the more impatient they get, whet the subject comes up. They don't pay attention, can't hear the words, don't know the answers, don't care (Did your friend like the way you hit them with the ball? Dunno... let me go... - What happened at class that was problematic? Don't know, the teacher is unjust. - Please stop making these noises.. I didn't do it... You did, I'm here two steps away from you, please... OK, OK I'll stop.) At one point my healthiest child gave me this advice: Don't be too upfront about your request because they percieve it as an attack. Just somehow make them do it, we need them to want to do it. Well... "love" them or else, right? My request was about something they said they wanted. Loving our children doesn't mean we have to let them get away with bad behaviour. But I found that some children can't be guided, somehow you can't find the key to them, so you keep on trying endlessly, but everything is wrong about what you do. I seriously wonder if there is a key to them at all?
This is refreshing... My boyfriend's son is 10 years old. He's very observant & perceptive & remembers everything that is said to him to strategically use it later against someone to get his way. Sometimes he is fine with me & gets along well (I've been in a relationship for almost 2 years) but other times he's hurtful. He'll be rude, uncommunicative, (turning photos of me to the back side on the fridge). I think he's still calculating how people respond to different actions & being very territorial towards his dad. I try not to take it personally, but it hurts sometimes. Thanks for covering these topics.
I could be wrong about this, but I think that I was always empathetic and highly attuned to others, and didn't have to be taught this! Growing up in a highly religious and authoritarian family, I was 'well behaved' and I don't think I was ever 'insolent'. It wasn't safe for me to have the luxury of a rebellious, self-absorbed adolescence, as I was trying to take care of other family members. So I question whether ALL children and teens are 'naturally narcissistic', or whether its just the ones who feel safe enough to have a sense of self that is different from what their parents demand.
Dr Ramani, have you ever done a video about escaping being the golden child or when they get switched up? I used to be the golden child and was on my way to becoming just like my mother (as I look back I could see my own narcissistic tendencies) until I started down the path of an addiction. Even though that took 13 years from my life, it changed me for the better thank God. It humbled me, woke me up to the real world, made me see things differently. My brother is now her golden child. Let him have it.
YES. In my family of origin, our father was a malignant narcissist and 3 of my siblings, including my twin sister, began from a very young age, to practice the highly manipulative practices, emotional manipulation, temper tantrums, and outright meanness of our father. My twin became a malignant narcissist. It started when she was 4 years old. My brothers both had major, major behavioral issues as children and adolescents with drug and alcohol addictions, violent, threatening behavior and more.
Our one daughter started young. I know we said no, i know we didn't enable. We had her in counseling, talked to by police, we used every resource we had access to. As an adult she thanked us for never giving up during her formative years. At age 14 a narcissistic boy entered her sphere. They married. 25 years later they are hugely successful financially, socially. But his mom left them and now husband and I have to. There is no amount of giving or molding myself that keeps me out of the devaluation and discarding. When she was young she would attack without filter. As an adult she's a magnificent love bomber.
My daughters Father was a Narcissist and I see the same in her. It’s literally like living With him all over again. I’ve said it and tried to ignore it but I think it’s just best to go ahead and admit the fact that she is one to too period and I have to not make the mistakes with her that I made with him. So I’m here to learn. Grey rocking had saved my life with dealing with her. I don’t know if it’s genetic but if it’s not then it’s definitely spiritual!
Dr. Ramani you are literally an angel walking the Earth. You are changing so many lives and giving so many people strength; including myself. I’m sure you know how important the work you’re doing is, but in case you didn’t know I want to tell you again!
Yes. Mine was and still is. It was more than typical narcissism. She had bad ODD, and did frequently bully although she felt bullied. Heard over and over that she was one of the most difficult kids the person has seen. Teachers asked me every year how to cope with her.
Same with my daughter. Her counselor once told me it was very difficult to raise a child like her. That is such an understatement, there were times I just wanted to end myself. I was bullied in school and then bullied by my own child. I haven't spoken to her in 6 years.
@denisedevoto5703 Denise, I'm so sorry to hear that. I worked hard to get my daughter therapy and several long-term programs that and maturity, eventually helped a great deal. At 19 she is showing less narcissism, less manipulation and less bullying toward me. I just spend the afternoon with her and had a lovely time. Gotta say though, 3 full hours with her makes me want to rest afterwards.
Some children are full blown sociopaths. One of ours was emotionally abusing our other kids for years, but had sworn them to secrecy (we only found out years later). She even used to watch and cackle at videos of animals being abused and killed! She got angry anytime a friend needed emotional support, and would verbally abuse them, slander their reputations, and be cruel to their faces if they ever tried talking to her again. When she ran away from our home and decided we were evil (for trying to address these matters), we chose to not go after her. She lives with her malignant narcissistic mother now, and is no longer hurting the children we still have at home. May her karma teach her well. We cannot let her back into our home, our other kids need protection from her.
Teens can absolutely be narcissists and display a pathological lack of empathy and self-absorption.
Right she’s wrong on this one
I’m so glad you said this ! My heart is shattered. My daughter abused me until she left at 24 and never looked back she’s 37 now 💔😢
@@suzannehegarty350 Same here but she left at 21 when I started dating after staying single throughout her childhood.
@@dizzylemongaming2175 I’m so sorry it’s so heartbreaking 💔
Absolutely agree!
I have taught hundreds of young children below the age of 12. I can honestly say that I have encountered some profoundly disturbing behaviour patterns including strategic gas lighting of teachers. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I'm not sure I would have believed it.
I deal with the gaslighting from my 10 year old SS mainly, but also his sister, my 12 year old SD. Very manipulative. NEVER want to accept accountability. Lie all the time. It's exhausting. Their biological mother is DEFINITELY, borderline personality/narcissist... Diagnosed!!
Agreed, I have as well.
My step son 16yrs old is a huge gaslighter! I call him out on his crap all the time and he will deny every single word.
@@jg9838 do we have the same step children?
teachers are the greatest narcissist trainers of society
My 15 year old is a monster. Beyond the normal teenage behaviour..she mocks my disability and my lonely life as a single person. My home feels like a prison and I'm at a point now where I feel abused all over again as I did with my ex partner. And I genuinely don't care if I wake up in the morning or not. Your child abusing you is the worst pain imaginable.
I have witnessed how older children and teens can be horrible, yes narcissists. I am sorry, prayers for you and love
I am so sorry for what you are going through...
I am going through the same issues abuse my a teenage daughter due to my disability . Living it twice
I’m experiencing the exact same thing. My fifteen year old daughter is very abusive and manipulative. She tells me I should kill myself all the time.
Her father was one , I got rid of him because I did not want her to grow up seeing that kind of behaviour. Now she is doing it to me ,saying I am abusing ger to children's services . I love her beyond
Ife itself. All I want is her beack at home with me .
But I realise I need to keep myself safe as well from her.
Yes, a thousand times yes. My sister has been lying, and scapegoating me since the age of 4. She enjoyed seeing me get punished and getting others to laugh at me. It was daily torture. She never tired of it. I was 9, and didn't have anyone to protect me. She manipulated my mum and had her wound around her little finger. I grew up hating her, so everyone said I was the problem. She's now in her late 40s, and is a covert narc. Only a few of us in the family know the truth.
Your situation sounds similar to mine. Definitely by the time I started 1st or 2nd grade I can recognize that my sister had narc tendancies (she is a year and a half younger than I). Yes, always getting me in trouble and trying to pit my other younger siblings against me. It didn't help that my mother was also a narc and I was her scapegoat, too. I notice some really obvious narc-in-training behaviors in two of my sister's children starting around age 9 to 10-ish.
I’m so sorry
Very similar to my sister, who since early age was manipulative and deceitful, and today is a psycopath and covert narc. She is 2 years younger than i , and our narc mother was training her since she was born.
It sounds more as a psycho to me.
This is my story as well.
One of my high school students, an extremely intelligent 15 year old, constantly told me he was the best at everything: every sport and every subject. In addition he confided in me that he loved to turn people against each other. He bragged about how easy it was - and proceeded to explain to me that all you need to do is tell someone that another person is saying nasty things about them. I asked why he did it and he said it gave him a sense of power. According to him when you tell someone that another person is saying mean things about them- the person(target) can’t sleep or study because they are so consumed with the slander.
He came from a wealthy family and would continually insinuate that he was superior and openly mocked people who worked blue collar jobs. I told him that was unacceptable behavior and shut him down if he started talking that way.
He also had delusions about getting everyone’s attention. At one point he threatened another adult by saying he would tell people the guy hit him in public. This guy never touched him and handled it in a professional matter. When I asked why he threatened this man he admitted the guy never touched him, the student just wanted everyone to think about him and to feel bad for him. He craved being the center of attention.
This same kid deleted important documents off my laptop when I went to use the restroom because he didn’t like my tone of voice when I reprimanded him the week before. Needless to say I no longer work with him. There is no doubt in my mind he had NPD.
My money is on that diagnosis.. my (would be) step-son is 13. And -I'm sorry to disagree with Dr Romani here- I totally see NPD already brewing. He's been subject to these types of behaviors from both parents all his life..plays them off each other..manipulation is his favorite tool...and I call him on it all. He doesn't come over anymore.
Sounds like Tom Riddle and like psychopathy to me.
That kid sounds scary, that is not normal behavior for someone that age to be doing at all. I have to disagree with Dr Ramani as well, when a child exhibits extremely manipulative traits such as this, seeking out to intentionally hurt others in some passive aggressive way only because they don’t like something someone said, because it gives them satisfaction. This kid you described has absolutely no empathy, he very clearly does whatever he wants to get whatever he wants at any cost; ruining people’s lives. I would say he has NPD.
You can't just disagree with someone that has a degree because you are seeing very concerning behaviors. As she said there are other diagnosis such as conduct disorders that yes could lead into NPD later but NPD is a personality disorder and personality isn't concrete until mid 20s things could change and be worked through. My guess is the kid lacks attention from those that he most needs it from and is mirroring entitled behaviors he's seeing elsewhere with the hopes that it will get him noticed, not because he's a narc in need of supply but because he's desperate. He needs therapy no doubt but you are just proving her point, that by trying to identify these kids with these big personality disorders it can be self actualization because we ignore the bigger root that needs dealt with.
That's sociopathic behavior, with some narcisism. Conduct disorder, and he probably won't work it out.
That explains why we say a narcissist is "childish" because they never learned empathy and self-regulation, they never grew up emotionally. right?
Yes, raised by a narcissist/(borderline) led by fear, most-likely alienated from a parent causing a splitting, self-hatred, lack of empathy, and low self-esteem, etc. Both parents are unique and irreplaceable in a child's life. To remove a parent from a child's life is the kind of bad idea that only narcissist/(borderline) would do and causes an attachment system trauma. Normal parents have an intrinsic understanding of how important the attachment a child has to both parents and tries to maintain and encourage the relationship even if the other parent is problematic. Narcissist/(borderlines) want their children to adopt the same anger, resentment and vengeful wishes that they have for their former spouse and do so by signalling the child to be afraid of the other parent as well as using severely damaging tactics of emotional manipulation to distort and delude the child's perceptions of their other parent until they do. This spreads the disease trans-generationally.
It's a bit of arrested development. So as a society, we have to work on that so as to do better by the next generations.
WizardofGOP you accurately described parental alienation
They refuse to grow up because they enjoy exploiting others..
I felt like the songs from Daniel Tiger that I sang with my little girl fully applied for the behavior of my narcissist. "Stop stop stop, It's OK feel angry but it's not not not ok to hurt someone" was one that came to mind on a regular.
ua-cam.com/video/Gbt3f4b3oeY/v-deo.html -10:02 if you'd like to hear it.
( These are the things that help me keep going is knowing I can parent my kids in a way to stop the cycle from continuing in them.)
He just acted like a big toddler having a temper tantrum so often and it was so so so sad. That is why I had to leave. The children will thank me when they are adults.
YES, I have seen multiple people grow up into narcissists and they were definitely already narcs between the ages of 10 and 20
Same here , my ex best friend whom I met in grade 7 literally mentally tortured me and was like keeping an eye on what I do , she does not understand boundaries
Yup
I met my ex narc at 15. He definitely displayed Narcissistic traits then. And as he got older, he got worse. He learned how to master his disorder over time. Becoming more exploitive and abusive.
I have seen this too! I used to work in mental health and I worked specifically with teenagers and there are kids and teens who show all the traits and need very intensive therapy and might still retain these traits even with therapy.
My daughter is displaying these behaviours just like her grandmother and she's the youngest of three with special needs. I'm fighting it with everything I've got.
Maybe a child doesn't deserve the title of narcissist, but you can tell the ones that are well on their way to earning that title.
The first time I don't agree with you. My sister's son is a 10 y.o. malignant, violent Narcissist. Since the age of 8 he gaslights his mother, he beats his mother, he threatens his mother, he has zero empathy, he manipulates , he triangulates, he scapegoats me, he's always testing limits, he's entitled, vengeful, he doesn't follow rules, he has narcissistic rage attacks. What am I missing??? Oh and he's always acting sweet and nice and shy in front of the other people, like an innocent angel, he also likes playing the victim, so not a conduct disorder ... He's not the kind of kid that would end up in juvenile justice system, but rather the one who would put someone in a prison for fun by false accusations ect. He's a monster hiding behind a sweet face. Before I knew about narcissism I even thought he was a kind of psychopath, but he's clearly driven by emotions, and that's the only difference.
No. That’s my daughter you are talking about. She is 12! 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹
Unbelievably malignant and feels zero emotions towards me (divorcee). I’m scared of her, i tiptoe when she’s around.
I was trying to help her with her homework and it took one hour to do something of 15 min because she would just deny anything I told her do! Everything that I said (i was consulting google) she would roll her eyes and fist the notebook, erase whatever I told her to do, fight every single word I explained! I left her alone and went to cook my dinner. I was (am) drained, vampirized! She’s so so so entitled and rude!!
11pm 6/10/24. I totally agree with you. Drs don't seem to understand how to treat children like this 😢
@@pamelamitchell4069 Exactly
Why isn't mindfulness and regulating emotions in the classroom taught in schools and to the parents. Narcissists actually believe what their thoughts are saying to them so it just feeds it more. We wouldn't have this problem if mindful presence and emotional regulation and feelings feelings is taught at a young age. Talking therapies do not work. They damp it down for a while and put a band aid over it but it just keeps the ego alive and makes it eventually makes it stronger
Children and adolescents can be narcissists. They behave differently in many ways early on.
I‘m a teacher and i‘d say yes. I teach young adults and there are sometimes students with zero empathy.
And anxiety 😮
Quite many experts agree it's possible to determine if a child or a teenager will potentially develop a personality disorder. I think it's dangerous to use such a wide umbrella and give the kids a pass just for "being kids" when a good chunk of them actively engage in bully-like behavior and push other teenagers to suicide.
Absolutely yes. I told my kids that my grandfather passed away, they all said oh I’m so sorry mom, except my stepson who said “cool”. He regularly makes racists, homophobic, etc jokes towards others but if someone playfully says anything to him (lighthearted nothing like his “jokes”) he screams at them. He regularly slaps, hits, pokes, etc the other kids and If they even try to tickle, poke or play around with him back, he screams “DONT YOU EVER TOUCH ME!” Everything has an excuse, a bad grade- teachers fault, a damaged item- the fault is whatever inanimate item made him mad. All the kids have the same rules- ask for a soda or a sweet, and only one per day. They always ask, he never does and takes as much as he wants. Ate an entire pie, no care that no one else had any. He says he is “treated unfairly” or like an “outsider” and that he gets in trouble more than the other kids. Yet I’ve told him, if he followed the same rules as everyone else in the home, he would get the same amount of discipline they do. He demands that the youngest child in the house fetch him items, rubs his feet, etc and when she finally started telling him no and standing up for herself (happening after school when we adults aren’t around) he would get in her face and say things like “I told you to _____ you little, insert derogatory comment.” Basically he acts like he can do anything and everything he wants and how dare you say otherwise and you better not to the same to him. His teachers and other people will comment on his nice and respectful he is and how much they like him. So it’s evident he knows how to behave and is acting to get his way or a reaction at home. Makes things exhaustingly stressful. His older sister said he was like that even at 6 yrs old (before I was around). He is 14. So ya, I do think some kids are narcissistic from a very young age.
I'm scared for your younger child. Ordering someone to rub his feet won't stop there. I hope he is not left alone with your youngest anymore.
CPS exists for a reason
I’m so sorry that you’re experiencing this. My son is the same and I’m petrified for my younger daughter
I work with traumatised children and teenagers, in a carer capacity, many of them exhibit conduct disorder. There is a big difference between children being “child selfish” and a child who destroys belongings and property and is violent toward everyone and everything around them. Some of the kids are also ASD. Our biggest job is helping the learn to self regulate. They go from happy and playing to trying to put a chair through the window in 0.5 seconds because someone asked them to wash their hands for dinner. There is also an issue getting them the right mental health support as the system is completely overrun. Sometimes it seems like an uphill battle, if they don’t get the help they need before age 18 many will end up in jail or worse.
One 17 year old used every narcissistic behaviour in the narcissists playbook. Gaslighting, blaming me for being late when he had refused to get in the car, projecting his thoughts and behaviours onto me, lying to others about me. He was intimidating yelling and using violence toward me and other carers all the time, and was so destructive. While he does also have ASD I have met his father who is very high in narcissistic traits, so is some of that behaviour born/learned from parents? Yes.
You sound very victim-blamey for someone who “works with traumatized children and teenagers.” Yet you are focused on their acting out behavior and not the abuse they must have endured to get there? And youre the adult in the situation. Maybe you shouldnt work with troubled kids.
You don't sound 'victim blamey' at all. Wow to that comment. You sound like you're willing to rip the lid off and tell it how it is. Straight facts. Teens with serious issues can be hardcore. Don't be afraid to talk about it because someone with no clue, calls you 'victim blamey'. People not talking about this stuff is the reason why so many parents and carers feel so isolated.
@@anju8376 You are very wrong.
@@anju8376 Your comment suggests you missed the whole point,which was addressing the current behaviours. You can rest assured there are files with client info regarding life history,etc.
Young narcs in early relationships are testing the waters, seeing how far they can push & break someone. Harming animals or siblings. Abusers aren't defined by who doesn't clean their room or help with the dishes. Expect defiance in teenagers, it's helping shape their individuality, boundaries etc. Look to how they treat their friends & relationships.
Bravo! I've read at least 50 posted comments and you have really nailed it today.
Those who have the traits get busy at this point, I think Dr. Ramani may have to revisit her response...
I completely agree! I think Dr. Ramani needs to revisit this video too. She might not have worked with many kids/teens high in narcissistic traits, but those who have know their issues are in how they treat their friends, manipulate, belittle gaslight, etc. It's a real phenomenon and I think this video will leave those who know it first hand confused or invalidated.
I knew that my friend's daughter was a narcisist at age 10. She was just more than selfish - hard to explain. I unfortunately was right.
I know what you mean it's hard to explain stuff like this to people especially if they've never experienced it on some level
Happens all too often
@@daleblack3229 yes yes 1000x YES... I know, I know about what Dr Romani said and I do agree except for in my (yes, vast) experience with these types throughout my ENTIRE DAMN LIFE... ENTIRE... that I can say are just inherently this way. Yes it certainly is a "Nuture" is and not necessarily "Nature" but... quite honestly, some kids are just set differently at birth, and their environment either helps or hinders.. period!!
My 11yo daughter found a narcissist in her class. She just described a situation at school that blew my mind. Daughter was nice to a boy who has trouble socially and needed a friend. She and another friend took it upon themselves to simply be kind to the kid. Empathy. Enter the narc, who's been a schoolmate since nursery school. She decided nobody should be nice to this boy. She has blocked my daughter's number because of it. She was lobbying other kids from other classes to dump on the awkward kid, providing weaknesses from years ago as ammo in case they don't know the victim. Brought a group of friends to kick daughter and co out from under shady tree at recess. The other two kids got up to leave, daughter said no, we're fine, we're staying. It's bizarre.
Daughter went to the counselor in secret, dragging the victim and other kind soul along. It all blew up very recently, so counselor is alerting their 6th grade counselor at middle school, she was very concerned. I'm incredibly proud of daughter, though, I must say. All this by instinct! ❤️
Worse, as I shared how important it is for daughter to stay away from this psycho, she recognized all the things I described, like the flying monkeys and enablers coming to excuse the behavior because of temporary stress at home. The narc apologized and said same thing, home stress, attempting to hoover daughter. Sure enough, evil narc was back soon. Daughter was pretty shocked how well I predicted this stuff, so I thank Dr Ramani, and I respectfully assure her, this can start earlier than she thinks. I'm grateful for the opportunity to discuss the unhealthy behavior pattern and warn daughter to steer clear. Sad.
My child's Narc friend was 10 also. She had Typical Narc behaviors that went far beyond childhood selfishness.
I was a teenager living in a narcissistic family system. I was always on survival mode; always on the look-out for danger. I didn't have the 'privilege' to be able to behave like a typical teen.
I understand. My parents were narcs and I didn't even realize the extent of what I missed until I dated and made friends in my 20's.
You are loved here.
Me too
OMG I identify with you so well! Mine also ISOLATED me (and my dad) from all contact with the outside world, and my dad died a very painful, LONELY death in his room opposite hers, in the same house, under the same roof.
Why are you rushing to blame everything on your family that is narcissistic, take some accountability.
Teens can be narcissists when a certain kind of "maturity" covers their deeper, selfish demands and feelings of entitlement.
YES..Thank you😊
Agree
Sadly, the 18 year old I labeled as very narcissistic is STILL very narcissistic at age 37. No improvement or change. Still a jerk.
From my experience, children who endure poverty, or food insecurity, never complain about what food is on the table.
I lived that as a child and completely agree.
Mind you, if the kid has a sensory issue, they might still be fussy about the food on the table even in times like those - because some cases can be so severe the child will gag. In some cases, kids with sensory issues have even ended up vomiting after eating said food. So even if they know they aren't supposed to complain, they might do what they can not to be forced to eat the food that triggers sensory issues, especially when the issue being triggered is severe. The complaint might take a different form, though, than that of a kid who isn't in a food insecure household (one case I heard of, the kid complained more about losing a dessert for not eating the food, than they did directly about eating the food).
I feel like my original comment here was a little snippy so let me just say instead...A 100% compliant child is a traumatized child. Regardless of whether that trauma was caused by parents, food insecurity, or whatever.
@@rocketpsyence And I bet that this person, if they ever ran across a kid with sensory issues in a food insecure situation either ran across a kid whose parents dealt with them harshly if they uttered a complaint about their sensory issues, or else the kid DID complain and the person wrongly assumed the child wasn't food insecure because they were refusing the food that gives them sensory issues. Which in many cases could be a lot of foods, so unless that kid has food insecure siblings without sensory issues, their complaining might mean their food insecurity might not be obvious to someone using complaint as a metric for whether the child is food insecure or not.
And speaking of which, it turns out that sometimes even people with starvation-level poverty are reluctant to try certain unfamiliar foods - initiatives that help such people have seen that sometimes - so no, complaining, or lack thereof, isn't a 100% reliable measure of food insecurity even when the person doesn't have sensory issues. But a whole group of people in which nobody complains but the circumstances are grim is pretty much a 100% reliable indicator that the people are desperate and that there is some kind of pressure ensuring they dare not complain.
That's true, but I still don't eat seafood or meat because I never got to experience that as a child. The thought of it, the taste and the smell makes me gag. Chicken is the only thing I can eat in that respect. Then again, I don't speak rudely to people who offer me such foods. I'll accept and try to eat it. It took me a long time to eat a variety of foods, and I still eat a lot of very bland food to this day.
Some parents train their children to be narcissists
0 to 5 ethics and respect
😮😮😮
I’m married to a man that got diagnosed with ADHD 1 yr age. I have known him since I was a teen and I worked with Special Ed right out of high school, so his behavior always seemed like the children with ADHD. There were times, I felt he may have be narcissistic. After 1 year of therapy, I can honestly say, it’s his ADHD and growing up with a narcissistic mom that give him traits of a narcissist. He has really changed throughout this year but he has shed A LOT of tears. My heart goes out to all those kids that have disabilities and a narcissistic parent.
ADHD runs in my family and so does narcissism so it’s definitely hard to distinguish the two! I totally feel what you’re saying because I have ADHD but have narcissistic parents! So people have thought that I am a narcissist myself even though I’m a clear empath! Now that I have children of my own and make sure that they always apologize and except accountability for their actions so that I don’t continue the narcissistic cycle!
"got diagnosed with ADHD 1 yr age"
I'm sorry, what?
Sorry typo. I meant a year ago. He was diagnosed at 43 years old.
ADHD is often a trauma response from being scapegoated by a narcissistic parent (C-PTSD).
@@thevocalartsinstitute4594 shoot, I feel I have adhd
I experienced a 10 years old gaslighting... many times... and I wondered how he could developed such a skill in this age?
Children and teenagers are commonly narcissistic, especially young children. They are not fully developed enough to meet their own needs, so they need other people to help them to survive. This is why older narcissists can often seem like they are stuck at the age of a young child or teenager.
I think that it is up to their parents if they support such wrong behavior, or teach them compassion and empathy.
@UCzpiDL_6ME48da3Z6LnV8wg Nicely said.
Yes! Totally!
Hey Narc Survivor. Love your channel!👍
Lots of little children have empathy though.
I get what you’re saying but they have proven that most children are completely ego-based because they have to as a survival mechanism! I do believe it’s more environmental if children are not taught empathy or accountability for their actions they definitely can turn to narcissist very quickly! I absolutely love all your content 🙏🏻
I am a little confused. If narcissistic are created in childhood then why couldn’t a child be a narcissist? In the sibling video Dr. Ramani stated that some siblings said it was always there. I am 99.9% sure my step son is a narcissistic. I know kids, I know boys, but there is something drastically different in his actions and behavior.
I really just want some help on what to do with him & how to protect my kids and myself. I am so drained everyday by him. Plus he is damaging my kids & marriage. If early intervention seems to work best with everything then maybe we could help these narcissistic so that they don’t continue to hurt others until we confirm they are narcissistic as adults.
Just frustrated & there is no real information on how to deal with a narcissistic child.
exactly
Not all narcs are created in teen years, they could have been born a narc
Wow I’m dealing with the same thing except it’s a step daughter! I would love to know how you dealt with the child? Are you still married? I feel my marriage is over step daughter and husband have been out of the house for over a month
Narcissistic children is actually way too common. :(
My 12 year old niece is 100 percent covert Narcissistic. Any correction or direction is a personal attack. Will never admit they don't know something or that she's wrong. Professional at gas lighting.
To everyone who is watching this and had to deal with a narcissist "friend" in their childhood/teenage years with nobody to help you, I see you, you are so so so strong and I hope we'll get our justice one day, one way or another. The most important now is to cut them from your life finally and work on healing yourself, because you deserve all the love you didn't get, and more.❤❤❤
The best revenge or justice is to take back your life, stop being gullible, be a success and live your best life.
Thank you for this comment. I've had to cut that person out of my life after being witness to their abuse to their parents, friends, coworkers, partners and pets over two decades. Saw something wrong from as young as 9/10, when they would throw things at animals and much younger children (incl my sibling), and both verbally and physically abuse their parents. Their parents are lovely, intelligent people from narcissistic families themselves, that really love their child and genuinely had no idea how to handle the entitled, difficult, and abusive behaviour. So the parents enabled this person's behaviour by trying to placate them both materially and emotionally, which made it worse. I stuck by them through so much horrific behaviour, abuse, insults, and more, because I felt bad for them and ended up kind of keeping them around out of a sense of obligation. While the bad behaviour escalated through teen years and solidified in adulthood, they were always abusive. Definitely a case of narcissism emerging from both genetic disposition and over-indulgence.
By the time we were in our 20s, I had distanced them to VL contact. NC was from two last straws - first was their discarding of another pet (since turning 18, they had adopted, abused and rehomed 3 cats and a dog) which they forced onto their elderly parents, then adopting another kitten not two months later. Second was finding out that they had been serial-cheating on their long-term, long-suffering partner who they were really, really abusive towards. Couldn't deal with seeing it anymore, said something, they exploded and blocked me.
This person's parents are still family friends, and apparently this person is getting even worse with age. I feel so bad for this person's parents, as their overindulgence of their child was a response to their own narc parents' abusive neglectful behaviours, and they did/do everything they can emotionally and financially to help, but everything just reinforces the terrible behaviour of their child. Am really, really worried about elder abuse down the road, as this person is already explosive and physically abusive to their parents. But at the end of the day, I'm really bloody glad I'm NC with this person now. It is not our obligation to stick around for these people, regardless of family ties and childhood bonds. Leaving them to marinate in their own toxicity is the best thing we can do for ourselves to move forward with our lives.
@@chloemorgan1385 @Chloe Morgan Thanks for sharing your experience ! Congratulations, you're FREE now, and although I know life's much harder for us people who had to endure abuse, there's so much time now to experience serenity, joy, learning to live and heal ! Never look back, and remember that YOU are the protagonist of your own life, they tried to steal that from you but you got your power back. There's a whole world to discover out there :) I really empathize with what you described, as someone's whos life been entangled with a psycho?/sociopathic "friend" from age 6 to 16. Your life circumstances are important too - did your parents/teachers/any adults neglect you at the time ? Did you have any other friends/support ? What coping mechanisms and beliefs did you develop, are they healthy ?etc. (as an aspie totally neglected by adults, it took time for me to connect the dots and appropriate my life narrative).
Btw I really recommend Pete Walker books on complex PTSD, Dr Teahan and Dr Ravani here on youtube about narcissists.
Sending lots of love and courage your way, remember we're all in this together❤🌠
Thank you so much for saying this and for describing your experiences in the comments! I could not relate more and I really really appreciate your words of support. I’m so glad you are healing now. ❤️
I had a narcissistic childhood friend who was spoiled rotten and all the kids in the neighborhood followed her, making her narcissistic behavior that much worse.
Later in life, she attended my wedding and ended up bringing home a guy to our house to stay the night. I was mortified when I woke up the next morning. After she left and went home, she friend requested me on Facebook. I accepted and with two hours and I blocked her. I finally told myself enough is enough and the relationship must come to an end
From the age of two until the age of 12 1/2 we were neighbors. At 12 1/2 my family moved to another state. Like I said before when she came to my wedding and brought home a guy to spend the night I knew she did not respect me. I’m so glad the relationship is completely over. I never want to see her nor hear from her ever again.
Oh god! My teen years.... So I have a mother who never actually grew up. So when I was a teen, my mom also was a teen. She never tried to understand me, but demanded me to always put her feelings and emotions first. I did not have the fair change to be a free teen (actually a free child for that matter). And it's so good to hear an Indian mother out there understanding what a teen goes through. Ugh, my heart still aches for my teenage self.
My mother is the same. I learned that I am unimportant, that my feelings don't matter, that I am here to be her servant and confident. She used to shower me with complaints regarding my father (even their sex life) as early as I was ten or so.
Mine too 🙁
Same here, she would occasionally steal my clothes if they fit her (I am big in the chest) but much smaller elsewhere since she is 35 years older, she looked like a stage/side show not a mature adult. I used to hear gossip about her...
She would flirt with my boyfriends, while my narc dad (covert) would compete with them for my attention (incest here as well as being sold for sex...).
It was/is gross and while I never once think fondly of that time, I wonder how diff. life would have been had I not experienced such traumas. Especially, the medical issues I have today at 57.
@@Jane-gt6ef yes! I heard the sex stuff too. ICK
She is not just speaking of teens
This one made me emotional. My narcissistic parents took it personally that I was well me. I couldn’t be a child. I had to grow up fast in some ways. I was nerve taught emotional regulation or how to feel safe and bring myself back to safety. Something I am deeply struggling with in my 30s and grieving about. Because it has been a challenge to emotionally regulate myself and help myself feel safe during uncertainty and challenging times. I am deeply grieving this as an adult. My parents took every stage of my development personally and would call me selfish 🙉. The irony. Thank you for explaining this. Also I was misdiagnosed with ADHD
Why did you start of blaming your parents. If you knew something was wrong why didnt you seek help. Her video is not saying parents turned you into a narc. Narcs can be born. Having your emotional regulated doesn't automatically turn you into a narc. You don't even say how they wouldn't let you be s child, which is a damn lie or CPS would have came for them, teachers would have noticed. You are speaking coded which is narc like. You could have been born one and one when was a little kid, too soon to have been made a narc by your parents.
As Dr. Ramani points out children all want their needs met when they want them met. It's up to adults to teach patience, self control and empathy so the child will grow into a caring human being and not so selfish
beautiful, this is exactly my thoughts on this question✨👍🏾
Love is love ⚡🤗💎🥰📽️🎶🥰💎🤗🥰📽️💖❣️❣️❣️💖💖💖💯🎄💟🎧🎼📸🎼📸🎼💕💥🎬🔌🎤🎬💥💕🎬💕🎼🎼🎼🎶💖📽️💖🎶🎶😻💟🎧🎼🎼🎹🎬💎💎💎💎🎧🎧🎧
@@May54321 everyone has some narcissism....it's NPD that's complicated
They must also be educated well on narsisist , proxy narsisist and all their tactics and how to deal with them effectively.
I will tell you that some kids don't want to learn those things. They'd rather blame, avoid accountability, etc to get their "needs met" by using and abusing others. Narcissism is a choice--in adulthood and earlier. You can do all the right things and still have a child who chooses to be like this.
There are several areas in this video that lead to some serious concerns.
I watched counselors and therapist refrain from identifying truths about my children (3 of them) that did cause them some serious problems when they turned 13 to 16, 17 - 19 and then 20 - 23.
They chose not to diagnose them and ignored my input as their parent when I knew the dynamics of each of my children.
Son 1:
One was self medicating, since 13. He was clearly dealing with ADD/ADHD; he started smoking marijuana at 13 all the way through 25. At some point it ended up being laced frequently with K-2. I was ignored by the counselors frequently. So my son ended up unstable emotionally, psychologically and mentally; as a result. He ended up with “Arrested Development” emotionally, as well.
All the counselors and therapist kept chalking up his behavior to be just adolescent issues, when I knew other wise, as an observant parent.
Because I did not have a degree in psychology or was not a doctor in psychiatry; I was ignored and my son paid the price.
Most counselors and therapist and doctors are not properly trained to recognize psychological mental disorders. I took him to many (over 20). At times they rely too much on the DSM. Ignoring the parents input or trivializing the parents input about the child is helping to create the mess we see to day; narcissistic pandemic.
I had to finally place my son in a Psychiatric Ward at the age of 18, 19 and 23, as a result of all the professionals choosing not to place a suitable label on his behavior early on in his life as a child at 12 or 13. I saw the signs earlier; he was dealing with ADD/ADHD. This is sad.
I watched my son struggle as a result of professionals ignoring and minimizing his parent’s perspective.
He scrambled his brain with the K-2, as a result. After I started being more direct with the professionals; they finally assessed him with a Comorbidity related condition, as well.
Along with the ADD/ADHD; he ended up developing Bipolar Disorder; now he is on medicine which has helped him.
He tried to fix his executive functions early and almost destroyed himself.
Son 2:
Is also dealing with ADD/ADHD. I know the signs, but since I was not a doctor or licensed professional. I was ignored. So he is undiagnosed and is now a full blown Narcissist (undiagnosed) as an adult.
I can not tell him anything, because he sees everyone beneath him and he has no empathy at all. I tried to encourage all my children to develop this area with a emotionally unhealthy wife (Diagnosed with ADD/ADHD years ago, but failed to disclose this until all three children were over 20; sad, my ex wife is a full blown undiagnosed Narcissist).
I was ignored; exception he has my level headiness to offset his behavior, so he goes under the radar while at work in the medical professional. I know him. He becomes unhinged under any stress or when he feels slighted.
There is a hidden rage ever present in all three children that is similar to my ex-wife’s rages; it gets ugly when they are under duress of any kind.
Daughter 1:
Only exception. I forced the counselor this time to make a diagnoses when my daughter turned 18, after the counselors and therapist encouraged her to continue her reckless adolescent behavior as a teen, which led her to getting an STD for life. This broke my heart.
They ignored my input entirely and my daughter paid the price to her own detriment by ignoring what I knew to be true about her irresponsible behavior patterns.
She started doing pot at 12-13; self-medicating and others stuff, getting involved sexually with boys, involved in risky inappropriate behavior and so on. The counselors and therapist (and my wife) encouraged the behavior for some asinine reason; Blew my mind.😡
My daughter has been diagnosed with ADD. She is now on medication and doing fine, except she is also now dealing with Arrested Development issues like her brothers (and her mother). All are adults (23, 29 and 31); except they become like two year olds when they hear the word “no” or feel “slighted or perceive a slight” in any way.
****
Tell me; what was I to do when I understood the dynamics of each child while being married to a manipulative malignant narcissistic wife (with ADD)?
My ex-wife went to counseling and therapy with me, thus I was ignored and appeared to be the one with a mental illness, because I would bring attention to our children’s behaviors that did not make sense to me at all, and were inappropriate.
This is sad; I find too many doctors, therapist and counselors are poorly trained in recognizing psychological issues in children during their adolescence years, thus excessively use the excuse that it’s just “adolescent behavior”.
Parents are to be viewed as being too hard on their children and so on. The therapist and counselor minimize the parents concerns; telling them to be patient and basically do nothing to help their child properly deal with undiagnosed mental issues at a young age.
The earlier the diagnosis is made by actually listening to a parent’s true perspective about the child’s behavior; is essential and critical, the sooner the child can be properly helped.
By time a child pretty much gets past 16, its too late; the damage is irreversible. I have three, and know this for a fact; all you can then do is help mitigate the problem with medication after they harmed themselves.
Professional’s need to stop using cookie cutter approaches to addressing mental disorders and issues in people.
Counselors and therapist need to stop trivializing, minimizing, ignoring parents views about their children. They need to properly observe and use the parents input (we tend to know our children, because we are around them the most) to help make a proper assessment earlier, leading to the right diagnosis; else other mental issues will result. (A fact.)😓
Thank you so much for this comment. This situation HAS to change.
My heart breaks for you friend. But what can we do to change this. Dr Ramani is always interested in our comments about Narcs, I just hope that she or Richard Grannon or Sam Vankin turn their attention to this subject and how to advise and support.
Ya funny how it ends up as adolescence and all you need is therapy and that the therapist can coach both of you through the ordeal that ends up with money in their pockets and hardships and disappointments after disappointment for you.
A questionable behavior of yours is blaming the doctors for your children's behavior. Parents are the first teachers/counsellor
Very true. This why I tell parents I am an expert in my field. YOU are the expert on your child.
Yes, the youngest narc I’ve witnessed was an 8 year old girl at my son’s school, she loved playing control games, scapegoating and manipulating other kids. I advised my son to keep his distance, the only thing you can do with a narc, no matter what age, is to disengage. No good could come out of trying to reason with them.
Can u give an example? What kind of scapegoating and manipulation? Thanks
The problem is when you are the teacher of these little monsters.
Did you even listen? Children are not narcissists they display characteristics and have room to develope on there social and emotional behaviours.
As a foster adopt parent i have watched a very disregulated 10 year old develop into a full blown adult narcissist. His behaviors were always extremely outside the norm.
Yes. My 16 year old son meets 9/9 criteria.
He is impossible to parent. No one talks about this. There are no resources because everyone is reluctant to diagnose this.
I know it is not bipolar, there is no mania. It MAY be BPD, but there is so much grandiosity and definitely a lack of empathy, self confessed even.
YES. Nobody wants to talk about it, but no disordered personality just pops up fully formed as an adult. They are what they are from an early age.
Hey, I would love to be in contact with another mom who is dealing with narc teens.
I agree with everything you said.
Do you have narcissists and sociopaths on your side of the family? On your sons fathers side?
For me, its rampant on my side, I am saying that there are around 7 in my immediate family and on my childs father (ex husband) is a sociopath and narcissist and so is his mom and sister. I'm surrounded and have been forever. Only to start seeing the same in my young teen. Its really difficult without a support system.
Would love to listen if you need an ear
At what age have you start noticing that?
@@aloysiusdevanderabercrombi470 exactly that’s y I washed my damn hands and I’m done. I have a 14 year old piece of shyt living in my home who’s a threat to my household and my daughters. He comes in at all times of the night and as I’m writing this it’s 2:53 and he still ain’t came in yet. I’m current waiting on the cops for about an hr but I made a report on his ass not coming in. He is in a mental health school and since he’s been there he’s gotten worst cuz now he feels like he’s untouchable and he walk around here like he’s grown. When people refer to him as my son I feel so out of place and disgusted. I’m waiting for him to get a residential placement so he will continue his stay there and only home on weekends which is up to me if I want him there or not. I can’t wait
I also worked in an intensive therapeutic setting with teenagers, and although when they are children and teens it's too early to put the label on them officially, I can tell you there are kids who do NOT show sign of any other other diagnoses (such as ODD, ADHD, conduct disorder, or autism), who are well beyond the norms of "difficult child/teen," who engage in narcissistic abuse with those they are friends with or otherwise, with extremely impaired empathy. It's not that they can't follow rules or have conduct issues- many of them are good students who follow all the rules "on the surface" who are cruel and dysfunctional in all their relationships. They are textbook narcissistic abusers to those they are close to. If your child or teen is like this, don't just wait it out or think you must be overreacting. Get them intensive therapy with a specialist who understands narcissism before it's too late, because these traits must be treated as early as possible or you are dealing with an intractable adult with all the same behaviors.
100% agree with you.
I agree with you 💯.
Some kids don’t even want therapy they shut that down immediately
Just like most things in psychology, it all exists on a spectrum and depends on the severity. I'd say the most extremely narcissistic teenagers almost always end up narcissistic as adults. Most normal teenagers will be selfish, but will have moments of empathy that shine through. I would say the ones that are truly narcissistic don't just shit the nest, but shit on and manipulate the world at large, including their peers
Agreed! It's quite obvious when teens are more than just selfish and manipulative. Narcissistic teens (and kids) are a real phenomenon!
Spot on.
My sister was about 7 or 8 when she started targeting certain children at school. She used to say to me "you know that girl in class 3....I hate her, don't you?" It made me cringe and I couldn't understand why she had this hatred inside her. Then the other girls all turned up one day wearing badges which read 'I hate ****' (my sister's name). The headteacher told my mother who didn't even ask why those girls did that. But I knew why! They were giving her a taste of her own medicine.They took matters into their own hands because the adults weren't looking to understand the situation. And it didn't work because my sister played the innocent victim.
My mother died thinking my sister was wonderful and I that I was the bad mad child. My sister turned my brothers against me and flirted, and even dated, my boyfriends. She destroyed our family and many other lives.
So yes. This experience convinced me that some children show dangerous tendencies early on. Maybe if my mother had ever challenged my sister's behaviour she might have turned into a normal human being?
My son has autism. He behaves better than many "normal" children. He has an awesome therapist.
Hello, how did you find your therapist for your son?
@@Queen-ConsciousYa google
A covert narc ex childhood friend of mine triangulated and ruined my 13th birthday party by manipulating and convincing the other kids to leave my party and see another movie leaving me isolated as my parents had trusted we’d all get along. He moved away that year to another state, but 12 years later he reached out to me trying to wiggle his way back into my life after his wife had left him by “ghosting” him. He was very much woe is me “Victim victim victim victim” and when he was drunk, he would admit to being VERY jealous and envious of me and also made very disturbing comments about shooting people up. When he thought I was hooked back into him as a friend, he immediately started up with the passive aggressive barbs, but I shut that down quickly and moved him out of my life. I could see why his ex wife was so scared of him that she felt the need to slip out in the night and serve him divorce papers in the mail. He was a Narc when were 12 years old when he ruined my birthday party. I very much believe this stuff starts in childhood.
If they are raised by a narcissistic parent....most definitely because the old narcissist lives vicariously through their child. Especially if the child is an only golden child.
I know narc kids who dont have narc parents
I also know narc parents that don't have narc kids
I had a friend from the time I was 8-25. I distanced myself after high school because she was such a terrible friend. I see now that she was a cover narcissist. I have never seen a child act the way she acted (I've worked with children a lot during summers at summer camp). A few highlights: She HATES the word hypocrite, because once when I was 9 my sister and I called her a hypocrite because she got mad at someone for doing something, then did it herself. 18 years later and she still freaks out when you even joke about the word "hypocrite". When I was 12 I went away on vacation and came back and she was giving me the silent treatment. She was my only "friend" in gr. 7, so I was pretty hurt. She cruely bullied me for the school year, then decided she wanted me back and I took her back. She was a chronic liar (I knew that as a child, but didn't know her lying could stem from a personality disorder). She would lie, then I would call her out on it, she would deny it and tell me I was "attacking" her and I was being mean, then she would start crying (making everyone believe she was the victim), give me the silent treatment. She would make up feeling sick to manipulate people around her. She is 26 is now and hasn't changed.
I don't want to argue with a psychologist here, but even as a child I could see that there was something wrong and abnormal about my friend lol. It wasn't normal child or teen stuff.
My daughter (11.5) has a friend like this, a boy (12) Thankfully she is recognizing it and is about done with it.
I had a very similar experience with a “best friend” From age 5-12. She had all the signs of narcissistic abuse behavior with me and everything you’re describing here too. It was so hard being best friends with her because she was so possessive, belittling, controlling, and gaslighting that it seriously damaged my self-esteem and even my idea of what I deserved or who I could be as a friend. I wish I hadn’t met her so young. She was basically my first best friend so I didn’t have any basis for comparison for a while and thought I must be defective. I realize she was enacting the exact behaviors she watched her malignant narcissist mother do to their meek and accommodating step dad. Ugh.
What about children and teens who triangulate and manipulate the people around them?
Yeah. However, the kids who are manipulators often had to have learned how to do so by watching adults do so. They may naturally have less empathy too, but they usually haven't had it modeled to them by a parent, I think.
Almost all adolescents will dabble in manipulative behaviors at some point. As Dr. Ramini pointed out, kids and adolescents are learning how to get their needs met. When they are kids often their needs are easy enough, and parents indulge. In adolescents their needs often seem like wants, since they need to feel independent and adults sometimes have to say no for their safety, as well as other teens and young adults are more self absorbed at that phase so they will experiment to see how to get their wants/needs met. It's the job of adults to sit them down and talk to them to understand underlying needs and help them meet them in a safe productive way and teach communication as the appropriate tool over manipulation.
@@gower72 I wasn’t talking about someone who dabbles. The person in question is very adept at this behavior, has caused a great deal of damage to others, has threatened to murder other children in the family. This person is an adult now and doesn’t appear to have matured out of it.
@@kathaqua Sounds psychopathic.
@@cindys9491 yes this makes so much sense. A child mimicks what they parents do or even say
My darkest period of my life was from age 6-12 when my ''best friend'' who was the same age as me gaslighted, manipulated, degraded, humiliated me. I noticed how superficial and cold this person was and my little child self constantly hoped that she would learn and change as she got older. But she never really changed. I didn't have the tools at the time to know what was going on. I was someone who was taught to put everyone elses needs before my own, so this friend obviously took advantage of that. But her behaviour towards me carried on in secret, no one really noticed and then eventually it all ended when I became bed bound with fatigue for 6 months age 12. Needless to say I cut contact then. But these types of toxic relationships kept cropping up for me until I started focusing more on deeper healing. From my experience therefore, I really think some people are just born more empathetic and some aren't. I really think that some people are born narcissists. But I guess from a parents perspective it is good to not label and deal openly and take it as it comes with your children, because they are still your responsibility.
Wow, shocking
I'm so sorry you went through that. My child had an abusive Narcissistic friend too. Fortunately, it only went on for about a year. Because of having to deal with my Narc brother, I was able to see the signs, and able to help my child to stop being abused and manipulated. My child and I, like you, are normal, kind, giving people, that can be snatched up by a Narc. But, what I have come to realize is that we can be stronger than we think. And we can refuse to let anyone hurt us like this again.
Perhaps kids can be sociopaths…
@@karah916 They absolutely can be!
@LeilaJane, I am so sorry you went through this, but thank you so much for sharing! Reading your story felt like you were telling my story almost exactly with my best friend from age 5-12 (except I was able to cut contact when we started at different schools thankfully). Not enough people are talking about this “beyond bullying” behavior from childhood “friends” that sounds and feels very much like a possessive, controlling, belittling, manipulative, abusive spouse, and few people can really envision how a child can enact all the narcissist abuse tactics with as much precision as an adult, but they can! I have trouble explaining to others just how damaging this experience was for my early life (and I’m still healing from the lifelong after effects). These formative experiences can really do a number on you, especially if this terrible treatment of you was a secret, you were just trying to do what you were taught and be a nice, loyal friend, and you had no support around this at the time. Thank you so much for sharing and I hope you are healing.
I have just gone no contact with my only child . She is 13. She was the most wonderful full of light throughout her childhood. An year ago started to behave in a very nasty way. Silent treatment, gaslighting, stone walking, devaluation, arrogance, self entitlement, mean towards me but not to her mother as far as I know , never thankful , never apologized and blamed me whenever confronted. I feel horrible next to her , anxious and an out of place dumb person. I have no authority whatsoever. I’m out . Her mother trust her and not me
I think being a narcissist is about being impervious to other people's suffering.
Both sociopaths and psychopaths share those traits too. I think there is a great deal of overlap.
I can attest to there being children who are impervious to other's suffering and I'm kind of surprised that Dr. Ramani didn't touch on that more in this video.
@@claired1336 I hope Dr. Ramani rethinks this. I realize she is speaking generalities but this missed the mark in my opinion and reading other's comments they felt similarly.
@@susanrhodes5681 I agree! I think this video really shows that Dr. Ramani's primary focus is working with adults because she is minimizing something that is very real. I have watched every video in her "narcissistic abuse" series because I had a childhood relationship (pre-puberty) with a "best friend" who displayed EVERY one of the traits of a narcissistic abuser towards me and was quite awful to me in private, yet rule-following, "nice," and got good grades (so good towards the outside world). I had been eagerly awaiting Dr. Ramani touching on narcissism in children/teens and I was very disappointed by this. I understand that Dr. Ramani doesn't want people over-pathologizing their kids, especially for normal "teenage difficulties," that they'll grow out of, but I'm shocked that she basically said children can't possess these traits and minimized the experiences of those of us who have first-hand experienced it or worked in a professional therapeutic capacity with young people and teens who are budding narcissists. I think a lot of people will watch this video looking for answers and will end up feeling confused and invalided when they have had experiences with children/teens with high narcissistic traits.
@@claired1336 my one nephew out of three (who's father was a severe narc), showed signs at about three. His brother, 18 mo. younger was bullied by him and his mother did not respond as strongly as I would have. Since she and I were both raised by a severe narc mother and a covert moderate father, I think she may have not been sensitized as she might have been. She was the golden child while I was the black sheep. We both married narcs. I repeatedly tried to get her to leave him (but he made good money), I even offered to allow her and the boys to live with me until she could start her new life. She seemed interested but then changed her mind and then resented me. Now she seems almost as serious a narc as her spouse. Both of her sons are brilliant, but the younger one has serious social issues (quiet, brooding and overweight) and has always lived with his brother narc (who has his girlfriend with them).
When I invited them to move in, her non-narc son was showing signs of narcissism which confused me (but Dr. Ramani explained that can be a sign of fatigue from not having needs met). I said to my sister, please do it for your son (non-narc) before he becomes like his dad.
My other sis is a narc, her daughter went no contact in college.
It was very obvious my sister was a narc way before puberty.
I went no contact 30 years ago (I'm almost 57) and I have never regretted it.
I usually thumbs up, I decided to thumbs down, my first time ever for Dr. Ramani.
My middle son who is 21 years old. He is very selfish and self centered. I thought it was maybe he was just having a childhood moment. Some kids are this way and do change. No, he is still this way! Along with a dose of bring rude and disrespectful towards me, his little brother who is 19, my mom (his grandmother), and whoever else? 🤷🏾♀️ He gets what he wants out of you and is a big liar! Including a know it all with a smart mouth! So yes he is narcissistic! No matter how much love and respect I've shown him? I definitely don't get it in return. At this point in life? I don't care. Not sounding harsh. Just honest. I love my son. I just don't deal with him. If he was ever in any major trouble or danger? Yes, I would help! I love myself and my peace too much to let another individual to disrupt it! Grown children or not? I don't deserve nor need that treatment.
Yes. Having raised my daughter and experienced the narcissistic abuse, having to try to protect her brother from the same abuse and finally ending contact when she was 22 tells me that the answer is workout a doubt yes.
I one of my classes, one of the kids (8) is a bully. She bullies me and the other kids too. The owner of the school (private school) says that she is testing me and it'll take her some months to accept me, that a part of the other kids know her and that we cannot talk to the mother about her child's attitude problems because she is not better than the child. I asked her to offer the child private lessons because it is not good for her nor for the others kids who have to babysit her instead of learning and practicing the subject. What shocks me is that everybody talks about the bully and about how to make things better for her but nobody thinks about the other kids in the class and they are NOT ok with the situation.
I notice teenagers respond most to adults who don’t judge them, engage, and meet them at their level. Teenagers are naturally rebellious. They’re rebelling for their own identities. It’s healthy rebellion. Teenagers who are always compliant grow up to seek authoritarism later on in adulthood, with mental disorders bordering on Narcissism with a severe lack of empathy and critical thinking.
So trying to clarify your first sentence. They respond to adults who don't judge them. They respond to adults who don't engage. They respond to adults who don't meet them at their level.
Am I understanding this correctly. Or is it that they respond to adults who don't judge them, adults that do engage and do meet them at their level? Struggling with a teenager who is very disturbed.
Not necessarily true. Compliance is also a severe symptom of narcistic abuse applied to targeted empaths.
The latter@@kyleray9633, not the former.
My mother "went on strike" when I was 11 or 12 years old. She never stopped being "on strike" as far as I'm concerned. I'm 35.
Lmao like quit job??
What does that mean?
What do you mean by “on strike?” You mean as a healthy Mother? Please explain.
Going on strike is a phrase that indicates discontinuing one's duties without quitting the position requiring those duties, usually until some demands are met. In employment, people who go on strike stop working to protest something about their job without actually quitting their job.
@@danielkaiser8971 This is an accurate description. Thank you Daniel.
I'm 3 months free from 15 year marriage with narc, and very worried about my 17 yo. She's been struggling with her MH (mostly because of his behavior) for some years, but now he's gone, it's like she's stepped up into his place with nasty comments and gaslighting 😔 I really think some videos on how to ensure we don't turn our kids into narcissists when they have a narc parent would be so beneficial! 🙏
I respectfully disagree. If the parent and/or surrounding family members are narcissistic, the abusive and negative behaviors are being passed down with or without realization to the child/children
I think you have a valid point here. Narcissists (can) breed narcissists, and this 'negative socialization' process can begin in childhood I think!
yes, and with all due respect I think dr Ramani is not a child therapist. If all children are selfish, that only makes it easier for the narcissist to hide, but selfishness is also a spectrum, and some are clearly waaaay more selfish/manipulative/vengeful/entitled etc. than others. And as a scapegoat I'm not even sure if really ALL the children are selfish .
We love you Dr Ramani!!!! ♥️♥️♥️ thank you 🙏 for everything you are doing for us!
Hello 👋 from UK 🇬🇧
This advice was never available for me and my upbringing. It was out of financial reach but also it was looked upon as a weakness to seek therapy. "That's for crazy rich people" was the agenda verbalized when the topic came up. In todays world this information is at the tip of your fingers as long as you can become aware enough to acknowledge that there is something wrong. It took a narcissist to come into my life to allow me to see the deficits I acquired as a child and the lack of self awareness I developed all in the name of self protection. I look back and I see not only the upbringing of myself and my siblings but also how my parents were raised and how their parents were raised. The information that is provided on this channel is priceless and it's free.
Teaching right from wrong decisions, love and providing a healthy, mature environment is vital starting at a young age and beyond.
I have done all this and more for my child. It has made no difference. She is a narcissist
@@donna1420 ... same. Always trying to undoing his wrongs.
My son was diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder and ADD/ADHD (not hyper), when he was 7. I ignored the ODD diagnosis because I thought it was being based on some tantrums that I thought were "just tantrums". I have been a single mom and 21 years later, my son is DEFINITELY narcissistic! I have been wondering if there is a direct connection. I will spare you the long story, which is how I ended up on this channel. He still lives with me, I'm the supply and verbal punching bag, disabled and financially dependent, and I'm trying to get out. If I could go back and do it over again.....boundaries would be set and strictly adhered to. I see all the mistakes I made and I can't unring the bell.
I hope you can get out. We cut our son off. It is hard as a parent but necessary for serenity.
@shelbyjasmer3168 we all just want calmness, no more drama. Why can't they just stop.
@@grannyweatherwax9666 because they’re demonized. They need deliverance through Christ.
What if they are acting out because they are being physically, emotionally and sexually abused. Then to be labeled a problem child on top of that.
i agree, we shouldn't label a child to their face. To me the label isn't necessary, but seeing the signs and behaviors was. My child was being emotionally tortured by a friend, and having an understanding of what was going on helped me to help my child get free from the toxic relationship.
I was all of these by my narc fostermother. I was a problem child and the scapegoat. I copied her bahaviour in some areas like gaslighting, lying sometimes. I wasn't manipulating others for fun, I had just and still have cptsd and was terrified of being punished, humiliated and hurt. So I tried to avoid it the only way I knew and that was the way of my narc family. I never liked it and when I was a bit older as a teenager I tried to distance myself from it and unlearn that behaviour. I don't have any traits left, but I remember a few situations especially under 18 where I didn't react well. I was just scared out of my mind and saying, this didn't happen or I didn't say it like that. It was what I knew.
I was never labeled as a narc, but if, I could see why. It's important to see if a child is reenacting a behaviour, because they don't know better or if they have the underlying issues like not being able to regulate themselfs, huge super ego ect.
Wow, it's like the narcs just want to hurt you as much as they can. My foster Mom hated my guts. She would always berate me. She planted some pills in my purse and.made sure I got in trouble, with her and the guy who ran the whole thing. John Walker. I understand everything you said. The reason I was in a foster home was because I had been molested by my own father. Before that I was raised by a schizophrenic Mom and a foster Dad who hated me, I got beat alot by both of them. As an adult I was an emotional cripple and a narc magnet. I'm married to one, it's been 23 years. I feel like an emotional mess I'm starting to hate an want revenge. I was not like that before. I hate being like that. I wonder if I will ever heal. We can pray to a higher power. God is there for us. God bless you and protect you.
Hi@@lisacurtis8162 I can relate. I was never narcissistic until I attempted escaping my narcissist family and ended up in another narcissistic situation. Only The Word of God seems to be helping my healing since it is the only source that does not coddle anyone about their capacity to become depraved. It is also the only book completely against unhealthy narcissism (2 Timothy 3:1-9). I struggle with revenge every day, but I just try to remind myself that we aren’t to take vengeance. Self-defense, however, is not the same. A passage that really helped me recently was Psalm 73, maybe it will help you as well.
Saw a golden child at a very young age being the worst narcissist I ever met. Highly doubt it will change magically
I know of a daughter to a overprotective mother that show narcissistic signs at age 4. She is now a young adult and full blown covert narcissist.
Yes. I was a victim of a teenage narcissist whom befriended me at age 15. I didn’t know it at the time, but looking back all the signs were there...grandiosity, lack of empathy, huge sense of entitlement. A mask was worn that made you see this fun, outgoing person that everyone loved. She demanded the attention of the room. But I witnessed the lying, stealing, triangulation, envy, cheating all to benefit her ego. I was eventually devalued and discarded. I know her 25 years later and her behavior/personality is textbook NPD.
My nephew is definitely a Narc. Extremely spoiled, coddled and entitled. His Mom is a Narcissist as well. The older he is getting, the worse it gets. No emotional regulation. He can't handle disappointment. He throws temper tantrums if he doesn't get his way ( almost a teenager, not a small child). He is the spitting image of his mothers behavior.
My narcissitic mom would bring up music we listened to whenever she needed to further her argument that we were evil kids. Just a couple years ago she brought up the music my brother listened to in 1991, not even kidding! This video is not about narc moms, but my mom still will bring up stuff from our childhoods that we did wrong, when we were just kids. We are in our 30s and 40s now, been no contact 1 year couldnt take it anymore!
@Spoonie. Exactly my story and I was usually so shocked beyond disbelief until I finally figured out she’s a narcissistic mother ( thanks to Dr Ramani) . The worst part is she came to live with me my covert narcissistic spouse on and off for about 7 years . The worst mistake of my life but thank God I’ve gone no contact with her for a year now and I’m working on healing and moving on from the narc spouse.
Very demonic personality.
My narc mother does this as well when we’ve had arguments and I point out her behavior. She will bring up the past and say I was never a good child and how I used to ditch school in jr high... I’m always thinking HUH!! I’m 34 now. Sure, I ditched school but I never dropped out and I even finished HS a little early. I think she purposely likes to confuse me when I’m onto her poor behaviors.
Narcissism is hereditary, and predisposed for the traits of this difficult mental disorder. Looking back you can see the early signs before an official diagnosis can be made.
I fully agree. They say it isn’t, but my ex’s mom said that he showed the same traits of his dad at like age 3!!
Oh have they found the narcissist gene?
Children learn ways to communicate and deal with others from their parents. It could be that they're just learning the wrong script.
I wonder if the kids would grow up to be narcs if they were separated from their narcissistic parents at birth and raised by loving people.
@@hxub9626 Yes! I have seen an example of this (father died when child was baby). There seems to be something that is genetic. The child is now a grown man and has an amazingly similar personality as his father. Very likable and manipulative behind the scenes. It’s uncanny really.
The BLU PHOENIX FLAME SKY, I can see this could be true, as someone I know to be very narcissistic to the point of dangerous antisocial personality disorder, never knew his father, who died when he was a newborn. His mother was a kind and compassionate person, who told me that as he was growing up, it amazed her how his thinking was so unlike hers, but just like his father's, even though he never knew him, and no one else in the family was like this. Where else could it have come from except through genetics?
I work with a lot of kids, and some of them have all the boxes checked. From as early as 2-3 years old. Maybe it’s because their parents / caregivers have narcissistic tendencies? But even with siblings brought up in the same household, there are some more predisposed to narcissistic behavior.
I have worked with lots of kids and teens in a therapeutic capacity and have seen the same thing. I think Dr. Ramani minimized the reality of kids/teens with high narcissistic traits, and I hope she rethinks this video.
@@claired1336 I hope she does because it's really important to tackle this issue more deeply.
Child was not taught narcissism at 2 years old and instantly became one, they were born one.
I had two narcissists as parents and I'm pretty sure my " brother" has always been a narc too
I have a 10 year old grand daughter and she Definity displays narcissistic behavior. I don't see her but twice per year and the rest of the time video calls. the video calls are always pleasant and enjoyable. Last summer due to unforeseen circumstances she ended up spending the summer with us. It was eye-opening! As long as she got her way all was fine, but if there was something she didn't like she had no qualms letting us know. I started noticing that she was running our household. She demanded that my husband (her grandfather) does not sing or play the guitar, which he performs on a daily basis, something I truly enjoy about my husband. She made new friends in our neighborhood, which were short lived, they stopped wanting to come over and play without explanation. She was uncooperative and refused to engage in activities. You may say all of the above was normal childhood behavior for her age, and I thought so too at first, but I caught her many times in gaslighting, embellishing and manipulating us. When I would confront her on something she always had an plausible explanation, except for I would catch her lying, but she would deny any responsibility. I also notice she had no sympathy for other and didn't care how other's were affected.. the more I tried to teach her the lessons of caring about her actions or take responsibility, the more I would get frustrated because there just was no getting through to her. When she called her mother , mom would sympathize with her woes and say oh poor baby, when you get home we'll do this or get you that. I truly don't thing there is any turning this around, especially since mom cuddles this behavior. She wants to come back next summer but I have already decided that is not something I choose to subject myself to. My husband understands but he struggles with this because this is his granddaughter. I don't want to blatantly admit I don't want her to come, and am hoping it will work itself out somehow.
I just spend another week were her this winter and it just reenforced that there is no teaching her lessons on how to behave and be considerate of others, she simply doesn't care or is capable of acknowledging she did anything wrong. By the age of 10, child should already be passed the "me, me " phase, not this child, everything is about her!!!!
My sister’s oldest son keeps telling his son who is 14 what a “beautiful boy” he is. The kid is unbearable.
Infantalizing and putting on a pedestal, not seeing the child. Destructive and abusive.
😆
@Humble Wonder
Yes, not seeing the child. If your environment doesn't provide dynamic reactions to you, or continually tries to tell you something which is clearly not true, this is a failure to "see" the child. They can be the center of attention yet completely invisible. In fact, going against the script created for them and expressing themselves or rejecting all these things put on them is implicitly punished.
absolutely. It starts with a perceived injustice that they refuse to get over or accept. My daughter came home from first grade many years ago (22 yrs to be exact) and demanded to know why we couldn't get a horse ranch. I bust up laughing but she was earnest in wanting a real answer. When I told her that horses and the care of horses are too expensive and we just couldn't afford it. She was sincerely pissed . There was a girl in her class who received all of the adoration of the teacher and this little girl happened to have had a horse ranch. Or, I should say her family did. My daughter thought if I could just get the horse ranch I too would be well loved by the teacher . That was the fork in the road for her. She never got over it and came to hate that little girl in first grade. She would tell me that she would get 2 little boys at recess to run up to the horse ranch girl and push her down . That shaped my daughter's life forever. Narcissists from an early age have an entitlement and become greatly bitter if they can't get what they want.
When I was little I believed if I have that sky blue , shiny training pack like the girl in my class and the beautiful long hair I would be lovable. Now I do have a shiny pack and long hair. ☺ I learned long ago it's not the cloths makes a fine human. I love myself today. ☺ I'm sorry your daughter turn out different.
Perhaps taking more time to work with her when she came to you for an explanation instead of laughing, especially when it was a big issue in her life. She resorted to anger and hate instead of understanding that people's circumstances are different. At that age she didn't know what "we can't afford it" means. She may have felt better if perhaps she saw her as an ally instead of an opponent
@@terib5467 , there are many times I wished to go back in time to see if I could have done things differently. I was a full time stay at home mom so I don't think that was the problem. My laugh was spontaneous but probably not helpful at the time. I truly wished I home schooled her instead.
Christina H. Wow, that's a powerful story. You sound like a good mother - you didn't support her need to 'demand' when she was in first grade. My parents would have laughed me out of the house and down the road! If your daughter is now having to support herself, she might begin to understand. I think all children are dreamers, and of course don't understand money yet, but it's how they evolve in their relation to money that's important. Because of the sensible parents that I had, I have well learned how to stretch a dollar and live well within my means. ❤️
Dear Dr. Ramani, thank you so much for this content.I have been one of this community members to have requested pointers on teens' behavioral pattern understanding. And I cannot thank you enough! The content was so informative and brought me immense relief :) More content in this area is always welcome, Dr. Ramani. Please and thank you 💞🙏
I Agree... As adults we really lack a knowledge about such topics.
I also experienced it as adolescent.
In last years of high school I was hit by my first episode of Depression.
I felt so tired, was constantly sleeping during classes. I was a good student with good grades, already oriented for medical university, so some of the teachers were reducing the load of work for me, but no one suggested to seek for a professional medical help...
I had some suspicions about depression, but was really resentful of seeking help.
In summer after graduation everything got better, but now I understand that early medical treatment and help would've have been impacted my life in a much better way and maybe prevented further development of disease.
Every classroom, even of small children seem to have 2 or 3 very difficult children, who do not think that the rules apply to them. I have often wondered if they grew out of it as adults, or if they became narcissistic adults.
I think YES, my ex best friend was! I met her when we were in grade 7... she mentally tortured me and there was no boundaries, she would get jealous if I made new friends. It’s like few of us had to take permission from her to do literally anything. I am 26 now and I am glad I got rid of her this year. According to my old friends who knew her b4 me, the narc ex friend has always been like that since grade 1 or long b4 I know her.
It is painful to see so many people so dismissive of normal adolescent and children behaviours and labeling/disliking them instead of recognizing that theyre learning and still malleable at that age. Be the role model. Demonstrate the empathy that you want to see; look behind the curtain and empathise...don't validate the inappropriate (yet age appropriate) behaviour by saying, 'Yup, broken kid'. Kids become what you tell them they are. Catch them doing the right things and give them opportunities to succeed...it has an effect. At this age as teachers and extended family members, you have more of an impact than parents might. Encourage...don't dismiss.
My older brother was diagnosed with sociopathic tendencies when he was 16 and I was 12. It does exist. He did everything possible to extinguish my light, including attempted murder when I was 7. My mother with narcissistic tendencies covered his actions. I’m finally in therapy at 44 years old.
Jesus bless you you are amazing ❤
Their demons protect each other’s demons because they fear the exposure of one means the exposure of legion.
Totally right ! I taught 15 and 16 years old students and I felt their brains were jello and adults need to put good stuff in before it sets.
They absolutely can! I should know, I had the terrible misfortune of growing up with three of them. Heartless, soulless imps they were and are!
I have 2 teenagers, one is empathetic, happy and joyful, the other one completely narcissitic causing our home disastrous!
i babysat an 8 year old narcissistic child a few years ago and he was pretty awful. his background was a loving, yet slightly abusive and most of all coddling mother. the father hardly paid attention to him and so he most likely felt abandoned; plus they were separating. he was charismatic even at such a young age and charmed everyone he wished to charm. i suspect the mother had issues w/ babysitters and they would quit on him even me after a few months, and she herself told me that i couldnt be nice to him because he would take advantage, and he did. he felt i was weak because i lacked proper boundaries, and so i had to become tougher and very strict but he was still kind of abusive.
i was soft on him at first because i sensed his sadness, he had dead eyes even at that age, no real childish joy. i wish i had been closer to the family and advised to take him to therapy which probably wouldve helped at such a tender age, but i doubt they wouldve listened to me anyways.....kids dont really have empathy and need to be taught it and encouraged to be compassionate but in abusive environments they more likely suffer arrested development and never grow up emotionally
I always had those labels as a kid & now I realise it wasn't me, it was my response to my environment
My 16 year old son is definitely one, just like his father. I see the making of a teenage narcissist, that will turn into an adult narcissist. I see where or how it starts and his dad had a huge part in h turning out to be this way. He would never make him have consequences or anyone correct him, now we have a monster. He has lights me, just like his dad does…. I’m overwhelmed and exhausted and that is what has brought me to this video…..
What about a kid who is incessantly cruel to their younger sibling? What about a kid who gaslights their younger sibling? Not just selfishness, but regular cruelty followed by hoovering?
I'm gonna guess (before watching) I think kids can mirror the narcissistic behaviors of their narcissistic parents or other people in their life.... but not necessarily be narcissists themselves
I like this response because I genuinely believe there are also alot of adults who have narcissistic traits through learned behaviour and mirroring but arent necessarily narcissists theyve just normalised the behaviour.
@@jugalicious123 I agree. I grew up with a narcisist mom.. I used to pretend people to read my mind, now I grew up of it and I actually despise this type of behavior. I remember that my mom used to teach those "tricks" with people.
Yes children learn by their parents modelling life, love , how to be to them. And children do grow up, hopefully learn who they are too.
@@f.m.1259 what do you mean reading mind?
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She said around mid to late twenties, and from what I have seen; I have to disagree. I really wish she would do another video on the topic. Because 20 and older seems to be ages where basically 90% of the development is already done. We as humans never stop growing until the day we die, but telling people are ''learning'' being adults when they are literally within the age of adulthood doesn't make sense. Yes we learn, but we don't learn how to be humane when we are 20,21,22... or 25 for that matter.
Yes. My stepdaughter was a master manipulator and had adult knowledge that a 5yr old should not have had. I found out that the whole family had problems in this area and by that I mean the ex-wife, sister-in-law and, stepdaughter. I regretted ever getting into this relationship, it was a nightmare... it cost me alot of loss for 20yrs
Jezebel & Delilah spirit. Men can have it too.
So is mine, now out of the house and still manages to poison, subliminally create issues, poison younger brother who still lives with me - and adored me until on Mothers day yelled at me Im not his mother! My emotions got the best of me and I yelled bacn "im the closest thing you have to it" - between the step grandma & my step daugther, they have continued to brainwash my step son, almost switching him from loving me to hate me! This has been the root of many if not 99.9% of arguments with my husband who doesnt see it, thinks im crazy, and does not confront their disrespect neither sets limits- it seems useless sometimes, I even feel not valued enough by husband who fails to stand up for me, and deman respect for me- so lately I started standing up for myself! They dont have to love me, but they absolutely have to respect me! It is hurtful to watch my hubby become papa bear and stand up and protect/yield his kids from any possible emotional harm, owning their responsibility and facing consecuences may cause them- but yet when it comes to me is an open door to walk all over me! It takes a kind, not sure what kind yet!
There is a difference also with someone who is self centered and a narc. A self centered person may just see themselves only but have zero care of what others think, because they cant. Then those grow up in 20’s and start realizing there are other things going on , not just their life. A narc seems to need from day one, attention, power, and the actions follow. Much different.
When I’m a kid I never being selfish and I always get taking advantage by those selfish and narcissistic traits kids and teenagers
My stepson is 12. Incredibly book smart but has zero self regulation, empathy and cannot stop lying. He recently received the ADHD diagnosis. He has stolen things from neighbor's houses, gaslights me a ton, tries to spin my words as if I am being mean to him, lies about everything (that is not an exaggeration) and has lied about friends of mine trying to sabotage my relationships . I feel like I am going crazy because he consistently makes me doubt the reality of situations. I am walking on eggshells around him because I don't feel safe to be myself around him. I have worked with Borderline people and teens in the past and I am seeing some very concerning similarities. Getting him into therapy was my first step so we will see how this goes.
I love that doctor Ramani said "a kid who'd rather play fortnite than do the dishes"😂😂
This was very eye opening to me. I came to this video in search of answers as to why my grandson was/is behaving the way he is, which has resulted in leaving us entirely out of his life although he claims that he loves us. It didn't make sense but his mother, who he is now estranged from, says he's a narcissist just like his father. All that to say that when you talked about looking to how the teen is around his peers and others is more a reflection of who they are (paraphrased), it really makes sense. He still remains highly empathetic, engaging, and protective of his peers, particularly in sports. My worry that he may worsen as he gets older seems unwarranted at this time. As I watch how he interacts around others (although I sure wish I was included), it seems I need not be quite as concerned as I have been. The estrangement is so very hard but I pray that, in time, he'll come into his own self and will include us once again.
I wish I had you as a therapist when I was a kid. Not that I was antisocial or oppositional, but....
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Yes, kids and teens can be narcissistics. I met a girl who was one. The worst person I've ever met. She manipulated me and tried to do the worst things to me, and even abused another person before me. The scariest part is that she has a victims chain, she always looks out for a new toy. I met other people that might be narcissistics too... I don't know, sometimes I feel that my low self steem attracts this kind of people. Anyway, I'm far away from them now
May God free you from evil people and give you discernment ❤
Dr. Ramani, I love your videos. But, I have to admit I am disappointed in this one.
First, narcissism does not magically appear once a person turns 18yo. There are indicators and signs long before adulthood. Behaviors of an emerging narcissist may be "normal." But what is not normal is the intensity, frequency and evolution of those behaviors. And this is usually the understanding that is lacking when parents of an emergent narcissist seek professional help and are counseled to try harder or love more.
Second, while I know you are adressing the majority, this comes across as yet another, "If you turn out narcissistic, it's your parent's fault." For those of us who do deal with the "rare" and "uncommon," especially in the foster/adopt arena, it enforces blame on adoptive (or step) parents for creating an issue they are desperately trying to solve.
Third, you have completely stripped children of their autonomy. Yes, they are still developing. However, they still have autonomy and can willfully lie, manipulate, triangulate and gaslight just to see how far they can get.
Yes, yes, you're right, narcissism doesn't magically appear when the child comes of age. When the parent sees the signs, even in early childhood, the only guidance given is love them more, or else. It's so unhelpful. I really want to know if there's a way to turn them back on the road to narcissism while they're not fully developed. Some 10 year olds can be surprisingly mature emotionally and show empathy, some of them are absolutely empty or rage filled. I've seen it with siblings, same parents. I really want to know what to do with the problematic teen while they're still young, if there's even a way to correct their ways. I just don't like the practice that you should love your child no matter what, but if they turn out to be a horrible person, you're to blame, no matter how much you loved them. I see children around me who obviously have the traits and parents are helpless, though some of them are desperately seeking help. I am not a really healthy person, but I'm working on stuff. Some of my children are quite difficult, and I refuse to let them stay liket that. Some of their stuff is truly shocking to me. I talk to them a lot, we discuss emotions, behaviors, relationships, whys and hows etc. The more difficult the child is, the more impatient they get, whet the subject comes up. They don't pay attention, can't hear the words, don't know the answers, don't care (Did your friend like the way you hit them with the ball? Dunno... let me go... - What happened at class that was problematic? Don't know, the teacher is unjust. - Please stop making these noises.. I didn't do it... You did, I'm here two steps away from you, please... OK, OK I'll stop.) At one point my healthiest child gave me this advice: Don't be too upfront about your request because they percieve it as an attack. Just somehow make them do it, we need them to want to do it. Well... "love" them or else, right? My request was about something they said they wanted.
Loving our children doesn't mean we have to let them get away with bad behaviour. But I found that some children can't be guided, somehow you can't find the key to them, so you keep on trying endlessly, but everything is wrong about what you do. I seriously wonder if there is a key to them at all?
This is refreshing...
My boyfriend's son is 10 years old. He's very observant & perceptive & remembers everything that is said to him to strategically use it later against someone to get his way. Sometimes he is fine with me & gets along well (I've been in a relationship for almost 2 years) but other times he's hurtful. He'll be rude, uncommunicative, (turning photos of me to the back side on the fridge). I think he's still calculating how people respond to different actions & being very territorial towards his dad. I try not to take it personally, but it hurts sometimes. Thanks for covering these topics.
I could be wrong about this, but I think that I was always empathetic and highly attuned to others, and didn't have to be taught this! Growing up in a highly religious and authoritarian family, I was 'well behaved' and I don't think I was ever 'insolent'. It wasn't safe for me to have the luxury of a rebellious, self-absorbed adolescence, as I was trying to take care of other family members. So I question whether ALL children and teens are 'naturally narcissistic', or whether its just the ones who feel safe enough to have a sense of self that is different from what their parents demand.
Dr Ramani, have you ever done a video about escaping being the golden child or when they get switched up? I used to be the golden child and was on my way to becoming just like my mother (as I look back I could see my own narcissistic tendencies) until I started down the path of an addiction. Even though that took 13 years from my life, it changed me for the better thank God. It humbled me, woke me up to the real world, made me see things differently. My brother is now her golden child. Let him have it.
YES. In my family of origin, our father was a malignant narcissist and 3 of my siblings, including my twin sister, began from a very young age, to practice the highly manipulative practices, emotional manipulation, temper tantrums, and outright meanness of our father. My twin became a malignant narcissist. It started when she was 4 years old. My brothers both had major, major behavioral issues as children and adolescents with drug and alcohol addictions, violent, threatening behavior and more.
Our one daughter started young. I know we said no, i know we didn't enable. We had her in counseling, talked to by police, we used every resource we had access to. As an adult she thanked us for never giving up during her formative years. At age 14 a narcissistic boy entered her sphere. They married. 25 years later they are hugely successful financially, socially. But his mom left them and now husband and I have to. There is no amount of giving or molding myself that keeps me out of the devaluation and discarding. When she was young she would attack without filter. As an adult she's a magnificent love bomber.
My daughters Father was a Narcissist and I see the same in her. It’s literally like living
With him all over again. I’ve said it and tried to ignore it but I think it’s just best to go ahead and admit the fact that she is one to too period and I have to not make the mistakes with her that I made with him. So I’m here to learn. Grey rocking had saved my life with dealing with her. I don’t know if it’s genetic but if it’s not then it’s definitely spiritual!
It is both. Genesis 3:16a, Psalm 51:5, James 1:15, Genesis 8:21a, Romans 3:23, Romans 5:19.
Dr. Ramani you are literally an angel walking the Earth. You are changing so many lives and giving so many people strength; including myself. I’m sure you know how important the work you’re doing is, but in case you didn’t know I want to tell you again!
Yes. Mine was and still is. It was more than typical narcissism. She had bad ODD, and did frequently bully although she felt bullied. Heard over and over that she was one of the most difficult kids the person has seen. Teachers asked me every year how to cope with her.
Same with my daughter. Her counselor once told me it was very difficult to raise a child like her. That is such an understatement, there were times I just wanted to end myself. I was bullied in school and then bullied by my own child. I haven't spoken to her in 6 years.
@denisedevoto5703 Denise, I'm so sorry to hear that. I worked hard to get my daughter therapy and several long-term programs that and maturity, eventually helped a great deal. At 19 she is showing less narcissism, less manipulation and less bullying toward me. I just spend the afternoon with her and had a lovely time. Gotta say though, 3 full hours with her makes me want to rest afterwards.
Some children are full blown sociopaths. One of ours was emotionally abusing our other kids for years, but had sworn them to secrecy (we only found out years later). She even used to watch and cackle at videos of animals being abused and killed! She got angry anytime a friend needed emotional support, and would verbally abuse them, slander their reputations, and be cruel to their faces if they ever tried talking to her again. When she ran away from our home and decided we were evil (for trying to address these matters), we chose to not go after her. She lives with her malignant narcissistic mother now, and is no longer hurting the children we still have at home. May her karma teach her well. We cannot let her back into our home, our other kids need protection from her.