Why Do Gamers Dislike Vehicular Combat?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- I love vehicular combat games, whether its physical combat, or ones with weaponry. Yet, many don't like this genre, especially with games that have weapons. This video is going to dive into why the general gaming audience doesn't like weaponized vehicular combat games, while also touching on other aspects of the genre.
This video was partially inspired by JakeMG's 'Do Gamers Dislike Racing Games?' video. Make sure to also check out his video if you haven't already: • Do Gamers Dislike Raci...
#vehicularcombat #carcombat #arcaderacing
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Something I find funny is how you mention most racing game fans aren’t into weapons. So you’d figure the most particular and picky racing game fanbase, Need for Speed would hate weapons in a Need for Speed game. Yet, whenever someone brings up why they don’t enjoy Hot Pursuit, it’s NEVER about the weapons.
I was kinda thinking about what you mentioned here when I was making this video. It might help that Hot Pursuit 2010 also has a good balance of physical combat as well, as the only two weapons the game has is the EMP and spike strips (which are certainly not as extreme as machine guns or grenades). But yea that is a good point so maybe the NFS community isn't all that bad 🙏
Its mostly a matter of freedom that HP had. Weapons were an option, but they were not the primary way of having to deal with others. They were a nice addition that were not so much "in your face", instead they were a viable alternative with fair balance. Most of the weapon based combat games seemingly rely too much into weapons.
Because in Hot Pursuit 2010 its avoidable/defendable against. It doesnt impede racong aspect as much. In other games it might make it incredibly unfair.
Vehicular combat is much more fun and fair in something thay works like destruction derby or atleast doesnt punish you as severly.
HP2010 has this sorted out again, as it rewarss cops and for racers its more.of a survival gamemode fitting with intense theme of racing and cop chases.
In other racing games only its just festival of nastiness and unfair dirty play.
@GamerAlexVideos Rivals was pretty much HP 2.0, there were more weapons and a higher risk factor between races, it was a decent game but it was buggy and broken which is why we don't talk about it
@@GamerAlexVideos *MAGDUMP 4 EMPS ON RACERS INTENSIFIES*
People just fool themselves and then ram you in traditional racing games anyways, instead of games made for it.
_You are telling me I can't use other racers as my brakes? Damn_ 😆
@@GamerAlexVideosbest strat for corners
I think the reason why nfs hot pursuit 2010 was well received as a vehicular combat game was because of how the weapons worked. In other games weapons were mostly in the form of pick ups and could be activated instantly. In hot pursuit there weren't pickups as you had a set of weapons that worked based on cooldowns and that to with limited charges. As a result of this hot pursuit was less chaotic and could focus more on the driving experience
Wish more games did this tbh... I don't care if in fictionalized settings or in our world with real car models...
I absolutely _adore_ vehicular combat, mostly physical. Too bad that hardly exists since games nowadays use real life cars, and that’s car manufacturers detest having their cars in games destroyed to the bone. Hence why I prefer fantasy cars getting brutalized than real life cars.
At least we still have NFS Hot Pursuit 2010 and NFS Rivals...
@@timur5219 We don’t talk about that second atrocity…
Good point. Weaponized combat has too much going on in one scene while the physical combat one still like normal racing but you can ram others to crash the enemy
Very good vid, i personally love the physical vehicular combat games more than the weaponized ones. I love how raw the impacts feel and it's overall way more frantic to me, but it depends on the game of course.
While I do enjoy physical combat, I also really like weaponized combat for the weapon diversity and the interactivity. Full Auto 2 lets me choose whatever weapon I want so I can challenge myself with any weapon loadout I want.
Blur was my first PS3 game, and I find it to be VERY criminally underrated.
2010 was OVERWHELMING with tons of Racing Games. From popular to underrated, imo:
*Gran Turismo 5, NFS Hot Pursuit 2010, Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing, F1 2010, ModNation Racers, Split/Second, and then there's Blur.*
And then there's older releases from 2 Years back of 2010 people where still excited about:
*Forza Motorsports 3, MX vs ATV Reflex, Burnout Paradise, Mario Kart Wii, GRID and tons of Need For Speed, among others.*
Interstate '76 was the best vehicular combat game I've ever played, nothing has came close since. It has a great story, characters, and style. I've been hoping for a reboot of it for a long time. I think there is some cross over between these types of games, and the MechWarrior games that have very similar gameplay.
Another hidden gem that fits in with genre is "Split/Second" where you can explode buildings and crash planes on top of other players that completely change the track.
Yes! Interstate 76 was amazing! Loved how it wasn't just weaponized racing/battle arenas like other car combat games, but had a large emphasis on exploration. Also a lot more strategy then other games in the genre, with its location based damage and limited ammo.
You must have never seen Vigilante 8 and Vigilante 8 2nd Offense.
@@ItsDaJaxV8 was the sequel to Interstate 76, but lacks the open world elements.
Crossout came close to open world gameplay with their story mode. I'm guessing Mad Max does too even though I've never played it. I would like to see more of that kind of thing.
@@richardryley3660 It does. I've always wanted to play I76. I think V8 Arcade did the franchise even less justice. I had an idea years ago to write a v8 fan fic that would probably make a good story line for a worthy attempt at redoing the game. If only I could find that old reddit post of mine.
Technically people love vehicular combat games, but mostly in a military setting and without the racing, like War Thunder and World of Warships. I think this is one aspect that is charming but at the same time doesn't help these racing vehicular combat games for those that aren't into it, that for most part the games in this sub-genre are very much fantastical.
I've seen games like Flatout and Wreckfest that are more grounded in reality (they are just Jokamiesluokka/Folk racing the video game) gains respect and love even from people who don't usually appreciate the genre, the driving mechanics are solid and have enough depth to be engaging on it's own; not to mention, without weaponries to micromanage, the game is accessible yet still activates the neurons that other racing vehicular combat provides.
PS. I think this is also why people are more accepting of games such as NFS HP'10, the game adequately contextualize the weapons and gadgets and make them more believable; as opposed to for example games like Blur, where it's just mario kart power ups and they don't bother with pretenses. Along with having engaging driving, having something to help suspense someone's disbelief seems like a winning formula.
And of course War Thunder and World of Warships were good examples. Also, those two were indeed diffrent and I do am a player for both War Thunder and World of Tanks Blitz and I understand how those two games works differently than vehicular combat games and non-vehicular combat games (racing games).
Then they'd love Project Wingman and Armored Core (mecha still qualifies as vehicles)
It’s crazy how people hate these games yet they hop onto a game like gran turismo and try to pit manoeuvre everyone
I think it's the popularity of kart racers that hurts weaponized vehicular combat. Many would end up seeing a game like, say, Blur, as "Mario Kart but with licensed cars" ... which it kind of is, but it's seen as if it were a bad thing.
Combat racers as a genre need to find a good balance between rewarding aggression and good clean racing. Alot of combat racing games, like the old Burnout games rewarded players for aggression as well as skillfull driving, but without punishing the victims too hard if they got wiped out. It was basicly a worldstar street fight with cars.
The problem comes down to how do you reward both clean racers and aggressive players?
Personally, I'd be interested in a 'Death Race' style game with vehicle modification and weapons, provided the weapons were not guns and rockets, but instead where more improvised, air cannons that shoot cable harpoons, oil-slicks, cantrips or smoke clouds. Combine this with a basic tuning/modification system that also includes a weight vs durability system along side a damage system similar to something like Forza Motorsports, and you've got parts needed to make a decent combat racer.
So physical car combat, with an emphasis on non explosives and firearms. That sounds neat.
The closest to that would be cars from Carmageddon without power ups.
Wipeout. Good driving can ensure you have a racing line that keeps you in the lead. Good use of weaponry can ensure you move people out of the way, destroy them, or convert them into energy so you can keep doing barrel rolls for speed boosts.
My favorite combat racing game still to this day, is JAK X Combat Racing. That game in my opinion is the best blend of weapon combat and racing combined.
It is very easy to get into the game, but super hard to master all the abilities and handling mechanics.
Don't ever forget the OST's...
Came here to say this! Jak X was the best
I'd like to see more ppl giving a shot at Burnin' Rubber series
Ayyyy that takes me back to my childhood!
Someone should make a combat racing game based on the Death Race movies, specially Death Race 4
There was like one or two Death Race mobile games, but nothing for consoles/PC. Such a shame, would be a perfect series to adapt!
You mean like Full Auto and some of the games in this video?
Death Race Beyond Anarchy was legit underrated.
Wasn't a cinema masterpiece ofc, but that movie was one killer clown short of becoming a Twisted Metal movie. *(Arguably better than the Peacock TV show imo.)*
It's very interesting to revisit this video after Fortnite recently released a new season with a Mad Max/Twisted Metal-like vehicular combat as the main selling focus. Not even that kind of community liked it (well it's mostly the tryhards).
Just shows how incredibly niche the genre is. The car game people would rather just drive the cars than add combat into the mix and the combat/shooter game people would rather just fight without weird car mechanics getting in the way.
I think one aspect you largely overlooked when it comes to lack of interest of weaponized vehicular combat games has to do with the fact that it's less "kid friendly" compared to kart racers or physical combat games. It seems that people who play racing games aren't too big into shooters, and that probably boils down to the family friendly nature of racing games. Parents most likely do not want little timmy playing a game where you use guns to blow up cars and kill people. In a game like mario kart you generally have a pretty family friendly game where the characters do not face any consequences for being blown up and the power-ups are grounded in fantasy. Physical combat is also less violent compared to filling a car full of bullet holes or blowing it up with a rocket launcher. Also, I'd wager generally speaking if they're into shooters they'd probably go play COD, GTA, or Fortnite instead of an indie weaponized vehicular car combat game since those games have cars anyway.
That is definitely an interesting point that I never thought about when making the script. I do agree!
First of.... I loved Carmageddon back in the day, never finishhed a race by ... racing. But later on when Blur came around I wanted to like it ..... but yeah.... in the end, it really comes down to "I enjoy the driving, not getting nuked by a blue shell before I come across the finishing line."
Also you should've ended on "Have a N.I.C.E. Day" :D.
They dislike Vehicular combat racing because they don’t know how to have fun in an unrealistic racing game. Games like Roadkill, Downhill Domination, Splashdown, Blur, Split/Second, Ridge Racer: Unbounded, Full Auto 1 & 2, Grip, Quantum Redshift, Fatal Inertia, etc. never get that attention because gamers would rather play boring, super realistic racing games and it just takes the fun out of it.
Edit: Another classic is Midtown Madness 3, Nail’d and MotorStorm. Play those please if you can.
You can tell by my comment this gets me furious sometimes. I wish all arcade racing games would make a return. I would take a Jak X: Combat Racing sequel or a Blur sequel any day over another boring Gran Turismo type of game. This is why most games that I love to play are 7th Gen and before.
Edit one more time 😥: I feel bad for dissing simulation racing games. I literally got teary eyed today like crazy watching the Gran Turismo 3 & 4 intro since I’ve owned those games for a long time. There is a place for simulation racing, it’s just that there’s way too much of it these days instead of back in the day when so many racing games used to be arcade pick up and play style. If anybody read my previous comments before, I have nothing but respect for Gran Turismo series and Forza Motorsport series (in particular 1 & 4 since I only played those). Sorry for editing my comments 2 times now. I hope anybody who sees this comment have a good day and have fun with any kind of racing game if you can. 😁👍🏾
Peronsally, I feel like one of the issue with weaponized combat, is mostly when you can't defend youself well enough when you're in a race. Some of them have arenas where that style works well, but when it comes to racing, some of them have issues that while on paper, seems balanced. It ends up being frustrating.
Like some might not give you a decent option to defend yourself. Or even if they do, in some cases like being able to shoot back, they sometimes require your to be looking behind yourself, which can be frustrating to try and balance with avoiding wrecking. So while it might be balanced, you're first but you have to defend yourself. It might not be fun having to multitask to that degree. And in some cases ending feeling like the only way to meaningfully win is doing things like being second place until the very edn where you can destroy first place to snipe the victory from them.
Kinda feel like it does fit better in a single player enviroment, like the upcoming FUMES. Since then the balancing can feel less "cheesy".
Really loved Lego 2k Drive's take on this. Not only can you build a custom car yourself but the handling and the health of the cars is affected by how many bricks you use and what weight class your vehicle ends up being. The races for me are maybe a little too much on the easy side, especially when you figure out where to boost, but they do have a specific online brawl mode which is really challenging. The powerups work great but most of my knockouts were from boosting into people at full speed like a battering ram and destroying them.
Whenever I think of combat racers, I think of Mario Kart. The fun of item management to either gain or defend positions is cool. Then I’m reminded of the item RNG, the bare bones driving mechanics, and all of the blue shells that have stolen races from me.
I definitely agree with this sentiment, it's definitely an issue with balancing with these type of games
I like vehicular racing combat. My favorite racing game of all time is Burnout 3 which has vehicular combat mechanic. One of my top 5 NFS games is Hot Pursuit (2010) and my second favorite Ghost Games NFS is Rivals, which both are vehicular combat games that use actual weapon.
The reason why I like those games are they showed arcade racing games can be challenging without have realistic handling. As avid FPS player, the biggest fatal flaw for most older NFS games are they didn't implemented health system which made the game stale if you happen to use the perfect car (heavy+quick) for pursuit due to very low risk involved.
Another category of vehicular combat would have been environmental
Split second may be the only one because diseny patented most of the game play elements
And maybe close call though it's still in development
2:35 this. very few games get both the "combat" and "driving" right
Interstate 76 pretty much ruined car combat for me, it was just so good (and unique) that nothing else really compares. It wasn't just combat racing/arena battles, it was objective based with very large maps that required exploration, and a more tactical approach to combat with limited ammunition and location based damage.
For me it doesn't matter, if a game has vehicular combat with weapons or not. I just want an enjoyable racing game I can play. Yes, I sometimes imagined games like NFS Heat with weapons for your cars.
I like vehicular combat but I don't really like needing to run over power-ups all the time just to re-up my ability to fight. I agree with the sentiment in the comments that I'd like to see more games that borrow from ideas in the Death Race movies, or Mad Max. Some kind of cross-country racing event with no rules, where you still have to race but you can also win by killing the other drivers or maybe another alternate scoring method (such as running over peds, as carmageddon did.)
1:46 This is pretty bad and I feel sorry with you. Also I stand with you...
Wreckfest is the most fun racing game I've ever played honestly, it's sad that almost no one wants to create that kind of games
Underrated Vehicular Combat engine: The Halo series.
Warthogs in Halo: Reach and Halo 3 have great damage models and both games handle ramming into enemies at full speed perfectly. Co-operative might be a detriment, since you need at least 2 to dive into the weaponized combat.
Mini Car Racing / Asphalt Duell by eGames 2001 was by far the best vehicular combat game ever. No cringe voice acting, no obnoxious music, just racing with weapons. The game did these 2 things really really well! Does anyone else remember Mini Car Racing?
Vehicular Combat racers are my jam, man. They will always be. I've played VC racers for my entire life for more than 20 years now, and I absolutely love the genre. I had so much fun and great memories playing Bumper Wars (2001), NASCAR Racers (2000), Wild Metal Country (1999), Hi-Octane (1995), and more back then, all those years ago. And good god I remembered just now this gorgeous game, London Thames Racer (2001), man this game was BRUTAL!
Oh, and Carmageddon TDR 2000, I still replay it to this day (tbh I couldn't care less how players or even devs tend to hate or disregard this game, I just do not care, it's good enough to time, it has excellent levels and overall aesthetics, crazy wild cars, and one helluva banger of a soundtrack!). Good old times coming home after school to have another CRASHDAAAAAAAY, ohhhhh... Simply reminiscing & listing these games in my head brings so many wonderful memories.
NFSHP & Rivals, Burnout and FlatOut series, Gas Guzzlers, BLUR & Split/Second, ...
Ah... those were the days. Tried both Redout & Pacer lately, and wasn't impressed much really. It's either me, or the thrill is just not there anymore. Wipeout, however, still rocks despite simplier visuals and overall 'older' game design in general. There was The One game that surprised me so much it singlehandedly restored my faith in the bright future of the genre though (or at least a hope it would make it last longer), and that game was Wreckfest. Now that's a truly superb beast, I tell you.
Carmageddon 2 is still one of my all time favourite games, period. Its a shame that Carmageddon: Max Damage is such a disappointment.
Im not usually a fan of weaponised vehicular combat games but Crashday is definitely a good one.
6:15
Blur is meant to be that style of game too, just that it uses real cars instead of go-karts.
Honestly the most fun I have is using melee style weapons like the wheels in mad max or using items hanging behind you in Mario kart. I’d love a game where you have a race car and a buster sword
Random comment but I wanted to mention I really enjoy your opinions on racers. Currently my favorite racing games are definitely combat racing. I know it's not combat but motorstorm apocalypse is definitely the one getting the most play time these days
Nice vid! The only vehicular combat game that I know of were those Burnin Rubber flash games made by Xform, and I loved them through and through! Sadly I can't get to revisit any of the older ones cuz someone thought it would be a good idea to paywall them.
Except the first two games
It was XForm who decided to make BR5 a paid game on Steam. To be fair, they're only a pair of Dutchmen, so they kind of need that money to afford better tools for a better Burnin' Rubber game (6, if they every do it).
Carmageddon TDR 2000 on steam and Burnout 3 on a PS2 emulator is a banger low end pc vehicular combat mix
In played Burnout 3 on my Steam Deck and i fun playing it again
The old Burnin' Rubber series was an example via web browser, but it was a lot of fun, back 12-15 years ago.
i believe Burnin' Rubber 5 is now on Steam
I really do believe split second deserves some thought for vehicular combat where the "weapons" are the track itself with buildings being blown up by the ravers to destroy your opponents and while it is overwhelming visually there is no thought other than racing as there is no accuracy needed kust trigger the explosion with a button. Split Second is my personal favourite vehicular comnbat racinhn game
Its sad that weponized vehicular combat is hated/disliked by most players
I started loving them since i was a kid, and wasnt with console games
Flash and Shockwave games were i found this style, metal mayhem, Burning Rubber, drift n burn, ect
In console i had more contact with NFS and Burnout
IF they made a new and good 007 game with car combat as a focus it would be sick.Not "racing" but action driving.
I find weaponized vehicular Combat interesting, because it gives a way for drive-by shooting.
I liked playing Gas Guzzlers: Extreme and old Burnin Rubber series for example. To be honest, if I wanted make a weaponized combat, then I'd add handguns as a beginning weapon.
1:48 these are some really shitty takes, the whole point of arcade racers is to put the focus on something other than controlling the car. If you want to have an ultimate driving skill test in an arcade track racing game then turn on all the assists in forza or play Mario kart with 0 powers and see how much fun you have. And the more ambitious it gets the less chance it will use real cars which can be a major fault for some, so it becomes more radical to compensate. Full Auto is the most alive I’ve ever felt playing a game but real racing or some shit is boring as fuck to me because the car never poses a challenge, doesn’t oversteer, it’s just Gta driving without people to hit.
Need for speed before it became a bastardised Burnout was presenting a very different gameplay loop to it. Full Auto is focused around actual racing and Twisted Metal is about strategies, Cel Damage is something unique, a movement dodging game.
But now games need to do everything to appeal to everyone and end up doing nothing that makes a game appealing.
Mad Max and Twisted Metal movie and series feed my hunger for vehicular combat.
We need something as a game, it's been too long since that recent one that got shutdown, I forgot the name.
Edit: It was Onrush, that was actually fun but I understand why it got shutdown
To be honest, I like the Vehicular Combat. I enjoyed FlatOut, Vigilante 8 when I was young. But I liked Hotshot Racing more than Racing Apex. Racing Apex seemed unfinished and slow-paced.
2:22 whats this game guys I used to play it I forgot what's it called. Its like Burnin' Rubber
Gas Guzzlers Extreme
I wonder if my very first two PC games count too when I owned PC for the first time as Windows 98.
Both are racing with combat element.
-Nascar Racers (Hasbro Interactive)
-Battle Race 3D (Soft Enterprises)
This is an extremely popular thing, problem is only one game has all the vehicles combat, open world, non vehicle combat, flying, missions, a storyline. Aka GTA V
I like combat racing more. A Lot more.
as a regular racing game player, guns are cool but not really my favorite, but i dont see the absolute hate, i love derby games like flatout and others
Still nothing replace road rash until now.
Regular racing it's good for people who just want a direct entertainment, everything is equal.
While combat racing take more effort to utilize weapon to gain advantage, and built your own play style.
But what the most is, recent racing games losing it direction and the meaning of winning. Where the fun part is.
Since you mentioned Road Rash, have you tried Road Redemption?
@@GamerAlexVideos yes l have, but for me it's like fighting game with motorcycle, not racing.
I love one particular vehicular combat game i love is dirty driven
That is a very fun arcade game!
@@GamerAlexVideos it was like a twisted metal meets blur
I think people dont mind it in case of NFS because in Hot Pursuit 2010 its avoidable/defendable against. It doesnt impede racing aspect as much. In other games it might make it incredibly unfair.
Vehicular combat is much more fun and fair in something thay works like destruction derby or atleast doesnt punish you as severly.
HP2010 has this sorted out again, as it rewarss cops and for racers its more.of a survival gamemode fitting with intense theme of racing and cop chases.
In other racing games only its just festival of nastiness and unfair dirty play.
Its matter of balance and not making it nasty or a waiting game for players who loose.
In case of Hot Shots specificly its all racers. Against ai its fair game but in multiplayer setting its a toxic gameplay loop especially the more into actual races people are, because it takes away from skill of driving and add ti cheap weapons or tactics ala blue shell from Mario cart or vice versa, beating down on runner ups.
While I'm a big fan of the WRC & DiRT games, Project Cars and Assetto Corsa, I absolutely love the Twisted Metal games and thought Mad Max was great too. Not every racer fan hates vehicle combat.
This is an interesting subject. It seems to me that the core of the issue is movement. In a typical racing game you move very fast on the Y axis, slightly back and forth on the X axis, and not at all on the Z axis, and your car is typically pointed in one direction most of the time. This means there's limited potential for outplay through maneuverability. Contrast this to something like Rocket League. While it's not a racing game, the main thing that separates skill levels is control of the car's movement and orientation, and it's design allows for a lot of freedom of motion.
I think if a weaponized racing game were going to take off, it would probably need to be something like IGPX but where the racing isn't automatic and it would have to allow greater freedom of movement. It could raise the skill ceiling by making it very disadvantageous to go backwards as you wouldn't be able to see the track, but if you had an intimate understanding of the track you could manage it. This would also make being in the lead a trade-off that feels a bit more engaging than just getting hit by a blue shell.
If the screen was split in two with one camera facing forward and one backwards it would be fine. Or a big mirror at least to constantly see what was going on behind you without switching camera all the time. Don't understand why they dont do that. Also can feel like unlucky sometimes when you get shot right before the finishing line. maybe many games just do it bad?
My favorite games are
Rockn Roll Racing and
Upshift Strike Racer...R.i.p =/
Gas Guzzlers because it's hard to destroy the cars, and when they're destroyed they don't respawn, which made the game mode completely boring for me.
I feel that they work better as an Arena Deathmatch rather than Racing. Or if you want some kind of racing, you can make them in to a team survival match where you have to reach the goal to escape, which is what NFS Hot Pursuit does very well on. The thing is, Hot Pursuit is still an Arcade Racer because that's the main identity of it.
From my perspective, it looks like these games just don't focus on the racing, but just trying to survive in the middle of a race by killing other players. Once you're dead, you're out and that can really suck. Skill gets less invoved since you can easily cheap your way out to win and it's because the games allow you to do that.
Physical Combat like Burnout or Wreckfest are very skill dependent mostlt because you're risking to damage your vehichle to knock other players out as there's is a chance you may accident knock yourself out. Plus, they're not as chaotic as the games with weapons. If you're skilled enough, you can make it through a race without having too much damage to your car or in Burnout's case, still being back on track without any disqualification. Racing is more focused than the combat in them.
personally I like some of the racing games with weaponised vehicles such as Rock and roll racing.
I like weaponized combat as long as you dont need to look behind you. For example traps and such is fun or combat from the side aka Road Redemption
I like the non kart racer weaponized vehicular combat, since it's the best for strategic and quick thinking. Shooters like Counter Strike and Arcade Racers like Midnight Club need quick thinking. Fighting games like Smash Bros and Sim racers like Asseto Corsa need skill. This genre is a good combination of all 4, so things can be hectic and panic fueled in a fun way. Smash Bandits and Pako 2 is the ones that got me into it more
I yearn for more twisted metal style, guns aiming where your vehicle aims and combat focused over racing. Guns blazing style combat racing always felt too unfocused for me, and with everyone potentially having a missile or machinegun on you at all times it felt like you were always being punished for taking good positions.
I like both genres just fine.
It seems to come down to a balance situation - kart racing is fun for a while but falls off due to the driving physics yet something like Wreckfest keeps me engaged without weapons because of it's driving physics and damage modeling.
If I was to fund a vehicle combat game I'd prefer the driving physics to be developed first to at least a decent level then layer the aesthetic, world, lore and weapons on top. That way people who enjoy driving games because they can drive how they can't in the real world still enjoy it and people who enjoy the combat side can enjoy it too by selecting a "battle" mode which would add weapons etc. Driving physics doesn't have to be complicated, just enjoyable enough to feel good and not as shallow as a kart racer.
Alternatively, I'd love to see a kart racer with more depth to the driving physics and even a customization / upgrading mode for your karts - maybe even have different karts for different racing types.
One thought that kept coming back while watching this is GTA 4 & 5's idea - decent or even realistic-ish driving physics while still being able to use firearms or even vehicle mounted weaponry. It makes for an engaging experience while not being too over the top usually, if we're staying in land based vehicles that is. Jet bikes with homing rockets can get fucked!
Meanwhile, i just wish a new Road Redemption game. I absolutely loved RR because my love for the Road Rash series. Also, arcade bike games are lacking now.
Who the hell said we dislike combat racing, What we dislike all game companies make all racing games the same and unoriginal, Wreckfest is very popular, Mario Kart 8 is in its prime, and People are always ramming each other in any kind of car game which is vehicular combat, Forza and Gran Turismo for example
Are you familiar with the Speed Racer game that was released for the Wii? That had some slippery but excellent combat mechanics.
I've heard of it but never played it.
because they need to play more racing games and try more hard to beat the hard games
Something I'd like to input with weapon-focused combat is that no matter how snappy or arcadey you make the game, there's always going to be a certain sluggishness due to the fact you're playing with a vehicle as opposed to controlling an actual person. In Call Of Duty for example, if you're attacked by someone directly behind you, you can just pivot 180 and start attacking back. In a vehicular combat game you need to do a full-on J-turn just to FACE them, not even attack. Not to mention your projectiles will likely be bound to your car's orientation rather where you actually want the projectiles to go. There's also all the things that can happen to you in a game like that. Getting to top speed in most games is just as easy as pressing the sprint button, but you have to rely on acceleration and RPMs with cars.
There's also just an inherent wackiness that come with the genre. Even the most "grounded" (heavy emphasis on the quotation marks) combat racers like Burnout and Flatout are still full of inherent absurdity with over the top handling, unlicensed cars, and dramatized crash physics. Even with Hot Pursuit 2010, probably the most slickest implementation of a weaponized combat system, still just feel incredibly out of place for the game's setting. Say what you will, but having a game meant to be set in present day feature technology like EMPs including a little AI voice that tells you status updates on your pursuit tech is disorienting.
Addressing the sluggish point in particular, there are some that do try to minimize that. Twisted Metal being the most noticeable one since you can rotate your car in place without having to drive. Then you have Chaos on Wheels where you do have a static mounted weapon, but also a weapon you can do a full 360 around your car. But yea I definitely get your point, and its why I do prefer some aiming ability (like in Full Auto) so that aiming your car is less of an issue.
I love car combat games & bought the first 3 generations of Playstation consoles just to be able to play the first "Twisted Metal" game, then the PS2 for "Twisted Metal Black" & a PS3 Slim just for the "Twisted Metal" reboot. I own all the car combat games over 4 generations of consoles, so I'm the biggest of fans. I have well over 300 hours into "Mad Max" alone.
Motorstorm + Redline Crashday
I think the reason many are adverse to weapons in racing games is because racing is very skill focused, but it doesn't take much skill to knock someone out of the race with a homing missile or blue shell.
Also, is Crossout a niche game? I've watched a few videos about vehicular combat games recently, and none mention it. I consider it to be possibly the best example of the genre, and it has been around (and regularly updated) for a long time now. It also features a no weaponry race mode, which has decent enough physics to be enjoyable. Only drawback is the massive grind (or massive wallet) required to get anything good, which probably prevented it from making any impact on the eSports scene. There have been attempts to make something similar but more accommodating to casual players, but not many last long due to lack of a profitable business model
I used to love micro machines back on ps2. Other than that the only weaponised racing game I played was Hot Pursuit and I loved that aswell
I’d say twisted metal is kinda its own category because you don’t race it’s more like a demolition derby rather than a race.
I played Carmageddon 2 back in the day and hated it. Ramming other cars means slowing down or coming to a halt; why would I enjoy that in racing game? And why would I want to play a racing game where you can lose after coming in first? Then I played Wipeout and loved it except for the weapons. Having weapons means that you can be shot in the back and lose progress whenever the game feels like it. Again, how is that fun? I also tried various kart games and found all of them to be dreadful. Never in my life have I played a "kart" game (actual kart racing games are a different story) where driving was rewarding or gave a good sense of speed, and the weapons just make them even worse. I find them absolutely worthless as anything other than casual party games. I don't consider Burnout a combat game; it is a racing game with a flashy mechanic on top that barely detracts from the races, as you lose very little speed and don't really have to worry about getting destroyed yourself out of nowhere. Wreckfest was popular because of the damage model and the circumstances behind its development, not because slowly backing up into other cars for 5 minutes is engaging gameplay. The pure destruction derby events were a novelty that was there as something to try between racing events, to show off all the ways the cars could come apart.
Personally the case with the weaponry combat is that it just doesnt fit the genre that well. Personally i prefer more hands on physical engagement, it feels more fulfiling
Maybe even though futuristic ones or kart racers do have weapons? What about Certain contexts? Spyhunter/Burnout/Twisted Metal/flight/mechs? I play vehicle anything when I find an it human/animal or otherwise games movement and game design goals boring and want a vehicle feeling and different goals in the game to play but that's just me.
Certain contexts? I mean if we take real cars out of it even if Blur/Split Second do it as a certain angle.
We take marketing out of it maybe the lifestyle, maybe the open world focus appeals more.
It's not really about the cars and more the people I guess or the locations. Sure the cars matter drive fast cars or stylish ones on the streets.
Or whatever level of dream/fantasy people want then oh weapons that's too far. Oh an arena give me an open world, give me damage models but no weapon?
Or as vehicular games are more party games or mechs or Spyhunter type or whatever.
Or we have actual unique vehicles in Twisted Metal or others as the focus not all karts
I think it's the arenas or the theming that puts people off. Probably like how a smash bros or arena fighters only have so much appeal maybe?
Or we have to have realism these days forget fictional things unless your a superhero/fantasy and sci-fi with humans or something else.
To me vehicular games are like hack n slashes in the Twisted Metal sense while the more destruction derby are more no weapons but if want to crash things sure do that or see more damage models go a bit further.
Or well marketing.
Like dirty humour shooters or platformers people go nope that can't be a thing and it's like well there goes creativity there of platformers with a 180 and well sure they don't age well but still better than everything being serious all the time.
But hack n slashes have that over the top silliness/seriousness when necessary but without vehicles.
Destruction All-stars it was marketing to a casual audience and wasting it's time it could have been a good game.
I like OnRush as a new modes and different take on MotorStorm as an arcade racer but most people push arcade racers away not saying all are good but I mean who knows Gravel exists. It's always oh Dirt/Dirt Rally exists, anything else ignores it.
I'm always like you people want more but still grab onto the big IPs you liers.
But then everygame is just rub peoples cats like a horny driver
I really like this games and Ive been yearning for a full auto like game. The average gamer does not like vehicular combat games with a racing aspect to it because they can't handle the frustration of them being blown to pieces a few feet from the finish line 🤣
I mostly just doesn't like the settings of it. Clean cars with gun just isn't my thing. On the other hand i freaking love crossout and madmax. Hell yeah put armor plates on cars and add turret on it. That's hardcore
I love WipEout, both for the racing and for the weapons.
I don't know. I simply like broken car in full throttle. I remember when playing Driver 2 or GTA Vice City, i destroy my car visually while minimalizing damage.
Perhaps weaponized car without penalty is the one way. I do enjoy destroy other car, but when other car keep coming is try kiiling us is fun. Wait, NFS most wanted 2005 is really popular
I think it just hasn't been done properly. It's a niche inception of a dying game genre that also requires a lot of mechanical skill, so not very accessible.
IMO, the problem with the car combat genre today is that too many such games are focused on racing. You kind of alluded to this here when you talk about how putting guns in a racing game makes it too chaotic and distracts from the racing for a lot of people. The thing is, if you go back and look at the golden age of car combat in the late '90s and early '00s, you'll find that one of the big things that _Twisted Metal,_ _Vigilante 8,_ _Interstate '76,_ and other car combat games from that time had in common was that they _weren't_ racing games. They were shooters on wheels. You weren't trying to get to the finish line first, you were trying to be the last one standing. You don't see many people praising the racing levels in the 2012 _Twisted Metal_ reboot as the best parts of that game, is all I'm saying. The problem is, outside of open-world games like _Grand Theft Auto,_ these days lots of developers see "cars" and automatically think "racing game", so they try to shoehorn racing elements into these games even though this genre is called "car combat" rather than "combat racing". What's more, these days "racing game" usually means "racing sim", or at least "simcade" racers that maintain some level of realism, and that type of racing game suffers the most from trying to add combat elements. Like you said, the only kind of combat racing games that are consistently successful are kart racers, which throw realism to the wind and have most of the fun come from wacky hijinks and outrageous stunts.
The kind of modern car combat game I'd love to see, and one that I believe could be successful, is one that takes less influence from _Need for Speed_ or _Gran Turismo_ and more from _War Thunder_ or _World of Tanks._ Swap out the military vehicles for lighter, faster civilian vehicles and make the gameplay more fast-paced, but otherwise, have the same combat-focused gameplay, including game modes more reminiscent of a shooter (deathmatch, capture the flag, et cetera) than a racing game. If you wanna have the larger-than-life drivers of the classic _Twisted Metal_ games, you could also throw in elements of a hero shooter in there.
Carmageddon / Flatout 1 & 2 / Wreckfest love these racing games
Twisted metal and wipeout are some of my favorites. The more guns and rockets and specials the better. If i wanted a driving simulator id play one. Thats not what car combat is about.
I just want a car-fu style game like speed racer
Don't forget NFS Rivals, best modern NFS by far
I almost did include some footage of it in this video, but I already a good variety of games that I decided to not include it. I still prefer HP 2010 but Rivals can have its fun moments!
I recommand you Dethkarz, a very good weapon combat race game
Activision still sleeping on Blur's IP is a big fat shame, If they released a sequel without any licensing issues with cars and songs, I bet it will be up for a long time in digital stores.
Lego Racers & Lego 2k drive might come under cart racers
There's an additional division of vehiclular combat into those where the goal is still to race, as in Wipeout or Outrun, and those where the priority is the elimination of the other cars, as in Twisted Metal. One is about high speed and maneuvering skill, while the other is a free roaming hunt.
For Hotshot racing, it's thematically doesn't really fit guns and car style games
remember though this generation never got any taste of Twisted Metal or Vigilante. or even Burnout/Flatout, so there's another factor to the Forza addicted zoomers of an audiences
I also not much into weaponizes ones. It's not they are bad, it's just I can't focus on weapons that much. The only 3 games I like in weaponized categories are HP, Rivals ans Blur. Their weapons are easy to use and they don't distract you from the driving experience. Also I think those games use weapons in more balanced way.
can put the asphalt nitro to 9 games here as they basically do the same while still racing normally. or a popular web game series from 2009 (if im right) burnin rubber is the same as well (though only the 5th game is on steam but, you can get the other 4 from a website) but yeah, the games in the video are more popular anyways but just pointing out that there are more games that had this but people liked it.
ehm ehm... Twisted Metal Series?
It's funny because I'd take a Twisted Metal or Burnout any day of the week, but you kart racers only get distain from me... perhaps it's because I actually like the frenetic nature of a high octane car combat game in a more "grounded" setting...
I feel like the genre depends on the game. People prefer the physical one because it's "the go to arcade games" so to speak. They're fun, have simple but good driving physics, and the good games always have great physics overall. You can break stuff, bend the cars, and so on. They're really good as party games too. It's why I think these games would be the first to come back if given the change.
Kart racers are usually the most casual ones. Usually hated for their artstyle that usually appeals to younger audiences, but loved for the same forgiving nature and because they're also great party games to play with friends.
Now, the problem comes with the weaponized combat. Like Twisted Metal, usually these games have the most arcadey feeling physics of the genre, mostly because they have to compensate for the weapon system. Sometimes they even let you win by just taking out the other racers, and overall it doesn't feel that rewarding. Only exceptions I've seen are when gadgets are used (NFSHP 2010), and some sort of power up system that rather rewards skill, unlike kart racers (Wipeout and blur).
On these it's interesting because they both think of the racing first and later add the weapon system, which isn't really that deep compared to the usual weaponized vehicular combat games. Also, the weaponized vehicular combat games usually come with this gritty, edgy looking artstyle which is off-putting for many.
I just love the physical vehicular combat, without weapons, games in the kind of burnout, flat out and even gekkikotsu yonku battle from nes have my heart. I miss those games.
i hate need for speed hot pursuit 2010, need for speed for me is most wanted, carbon and underground, that entry was an absurd"