Sooo if there is an expectation for a gift to be given if you receive a gift. Then it’s not a gift. It’s a trade. A gift is free of any expectations, it is without any strings. It is an expression of esteem held toward the receiver. A thank you is all that is needed. You cheapen it if you get one just because you gave one.
There are definitely two Koreas for while those in the city worry about such things, many in the rural areas know nothing of such things and are proud of their humble lives.
I believe this concept can be found in certain forms in most countries that have been in some ways influenced by Confucianism - including China, Japan, or Vietnam. I love how Rachel focused on how it plays out in Korea, shared her observations on it & how it affects her personally. Great video! 👏
There is a difference between having to be respectful and having to be submissive and I have the impression that in the workplace, the latter is more expected.
I understand "Face" alot of Cultures have their versions of this, Its Relative I guess, Here in US its called "Keeping up with the jones" Thank you Ms Rachel
@@UpQuick I have spent 3 months in Montreal, I love that city, If I could I would move there, But yes our phrasing is different yet also unique, My French is ok not great
a lot of people here are not understanding the degree that sh'e refers to in Korean culture, just because there might be a relatable element in every society. i would say an analogy could be, at christmas time in the West, when you spend money you don't have to be able to be acceptable. at christmas time in America, many might do things outside their norm due to the need to reciprocate, the need to spend a certain amount to not look cheap, adhering to expectations of sending cards, buying gifts, all the thought that goes into that, yet during the year when it's not christmas, in America there is not this pressure. what the author was saying is that Korea this type of pressure is there in every day life around many types of interactions. and of course she touched on not causing conflict which is another topic.
Its a big difference to Australian and generally western culture. Face is not really a thing here - we prefer to be direct and express our true feeling, even if it can offend. Its considered more honest. Also it is quite normal to openly disagree with your boss, I do it all the time and I am not at all senior in the company.
Some of this is universal. A common phrase in the US is "keeping up with the Joneses," which specifically refers to acquiring stuff in order to maintain status in the community: the classic example is feeling pressure to buy a new car simply because a neighbor has done so. And the entire point of luxury goods, in _every_ society, is that the status they convey is wildly disproportionate to any practical benefits they offer (and sometimes "luxury" items are straight-up _less practical_ than less expensive alternatives, even apart from the higher prices they command). But there is definitely a much stronger emphasis on harmony, particularly on not causing other people to lose face, in Korea (and elsewhere in East Asia) than in North America and Western Europe. Sometimes that produces results which are frankly incomprehensible from an outsider's perspective.
I can’t say this is me. Only look to make myself look and feel happy, can’t do it as an image for others. And I do give gifts to friends, like snacks or food, but it’s nothing major because I’m not wanting to make them feel bad because they can’t afford the same or feel the pressure to do something similar. I do it just to be a friend with no expectations of them doing something in return. If they do something, it’s because they wanted to through their means without pressure.
This. That is why even though I really like Korean history and culture (so far, from what I have learned about) but in societies of South-East Asia - and especially the countries that have higher standard of living and rising costs related to them (eg. Korea, Japan, China...) will have this overwhelming, absurd pressure towards appearance and, thus, social status. It is noteworthy to mention as well that in these countries, you're evaluated for a position at a workplace through your face considerably more than your capacities/abilities which is demeaning and discriminatory and thus, prompts many into cosmetic surgery services in order to appear a certain way or fit within a certain beauty standard. Which is downright awful or even criminal. If anything, western beauty is one thing - and even that one will vary (eg. Hispanic won't look the same as Anglo-Saxons, Caucasian, or the same as those with dark complexions who may or not descend from African countries, Haiti, Caribbean, etc.) and Eastern beauty is another. Additionally, are also many ethnic groups within Asia, but because of mainstream media, Hollywood/movies and other media forms we often associate Asia with a specific appearance or stereotype when you have India, Mongolia, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. We have so many kinds of beauty, shouldn't we respect and celebrate them, instead? Beauty comes in all shapes, sizes, heights, colors, styles, etc.
What I don't get about the luxury goods obsession of Koreans...they seem to love brand names that may have become relatively meaningless as the original designers tend to be already dead and whose products get made in just another sweatshop, possibly in the third world. They do seem to love limited run items too...yet I have yet to notice an appreciation for high quality, custom made craftsmanship.
You are a fucking loser. Also obviously luxury goods are not worth what they charge but they aren’t made in 3rd world country. They market how they are made in atelier in France, Italy or whatever as a way to market their perceived quality. You wouldn’t know what quality goods are if it hit you in the face
Rachael, one reason I am coming to Korea is to go to Musangsa temple south of Seoul. I am a Zen bhuddist of the Hankook Chogyn Zen school. Omg we challenge ourselves to know “true self”. Saving face is not true self at all!! I like that you have questions and opinions. You are a bit more like Asian American woman. It’s a strong and lovely quality!! Keep questioning. Hapchang
This is not a culture by the way, this happened to a wounded society all around the world. This is one of those upbringing wound which cause by a childhood trauma. Childhood trauma manifests itself as: - communication patterns - coping mechanisms - inability to self regulate - chronic fight or flight - relational patterns (typically dysfunctional) - low self worth - chronic hypervigilance. These are why we tend to seek validation and recognition from others, that our existence has meaning.
That part of the coping mechanisme is by seeking for validation. And lot of people didn't know that The validation we seek from others is usually the self-love we don't know how to give ourself. We really need to learn to give ourself that love and respect so we don't have to seek Its elsewhere
If they were to buy gold or something I could understand as it is an investment. However to buy designer products is ridiculous since the value only goes down. Why not put the money into something that could grow your money?
A good video, it's nice topic to hear about and you explained it really well. But I heard a lot of this concept of "face" from other Asian countryes like Phillipines and so on too.
Saving face can work wonders in some instances and works very well when it comes to having people like you and making sure they see only the best sides of you....but like any good thing, it can go too far. Over the years people have made the mistake of thinking Asian people are too soft spoken and could be walked over and taken advantage of because they'd rather save face to look good and polite, when in reality, they can be just as passionate about things and their feelings as much as the next person. Lately it seems a lot of people would rather save their "face" than actually address a certain problem that's obviously hurting not only their people, but others all around them. :( Everyone's human and make mistakes. There's nothing wrong with that.
Very interesting. I'd heard about this before. In the UK and Ireland you can do this in certain circles but the intentions are different. In fact people would be suspicious of overt gift buying. There's a bit of this in the Philippines too where my wife is from but it's not as formal. What I think is different and some Koreans who live in the UK have noticed is that there is a different way that reciprocity is handled. It's much more subtle as is the politeness. But if you don't reciprocate from time to time with favours people think you are taking advantage. And the last thing you want to be is a moocher.
its different story in my country, usually people who's in definition of Rich for 10 generation. they dress up pretty simple but elegance, even they wore shirt pair with short or long cargo pants in daily basic to work. it doesnt mean they ar careless about apperance, they just too busy with their bussines. n as long as i know, people who seems to flexing with they looks, they're not as rich as them the cargo guy
Suppressing your thoughts and feeling often result in other negative manifestations. I'm wondering if that type of thinking is directly related to the Korean drinking culture? Drinking is a means of diluting the reality one lives in because they can't handle the issues head on.
Such a big topic. In exYugoslavia, people dressed casually, after the break up, wars, USA bombing, people started overdressing, all ages, not living there and visiting it felt so wrong... So the unusual conclusion is that violence has something to do with too much pressure on the appearance.
Hi Rachel, good evening. I think it's just part of Asian culture. Every country has something synonymous with their culture that could or should be changed. Maybe it's ok to have these things in our cultures. Maybe it's not. I hope you have an amazing evening, take care and God bless you my friend. 🙏🥰
This is very interesting. An aspect of "Face" has morphed and/or broaden itself to become a commodity. Especially when it's commercialized at a high level of expense. 🤔
here in visayas region in the philippines i have seen so many foreign exchange korean students since their parents put up a business in beach resorts.. and i remember my korean classmate she said those who buy luxury brands it is because thats a trend like plastic surgeries in kids they even allowed that🤦🏻♀️..but in reality i can say they are more thrifty than over spender 😀 some of them are friendly and some of them are immatures who likes to make fun of others especially if you are poor ... and one thing i can say they judge you base on your physical appearance and wealthy you are
Ya! Majority of Asia have this. Saving face thing. I learned about this fact several days ago. Can't believe myself that S.K spent more than U.S and China. I actually thought China would be #1. I learned yr ago that lots of S K have debt and lots of finance stress which led to lots of suicidal as well. I hope the society change or it would burns everyone out. I have ur notification on but I didn't see ur notice of upload.
Chinese Culture is the same, many other culture does the same thing as well. It's more habitual IMO, but my folks always trying to save face, bragging and boasting about irrelevant stuff. If someone gave me something I usually want to return and reciprocate with the same value, that was the old thinking, if someone get me a car there ain't no way I will reciprocate if I can't afford it. My close friend disclose that to me when I picked up the bill. Since he always buys me food, paids for sporting events, I'm grateful but he has a family to look after as well. One time I ended up treating him to a pretty pricy dinner. In the end he was grateful for the meal, but he explained to me it really wasn't nessessary. We shouldn't put value on time spent with families and friends. That's what a job is for.
Though the statistic of Koreans purchaing luxery goods and custom of gifting described in the videos are accurate, the reasons behind such acts are to each individuals. There are so many different mindset behind why ppl practice certain acts yet she makes it sound like there is only one motivation which she called as "saving the face". It maybe the reality to her, if that is the perspective she choses to live in, but I couldn't agree with her that is the perspective I or Korean ppl I know uphold. I gift to show my appreciation to someone. Never to "save my face" as she calls it. I find the perspective she holds rather skewed towards the negative.
OMG Rachel long time no see it's been over a yr i've seen your videos but now it came on my fyp and when the video started i was like - hmmm she looks familiar, ooo it's Rachel, Rachel Kim you're more attractive now ngl
Hi. I want to to congrats with you. I've followed your video sporadically through the last two, three years and your way of thinking and thus speaking matured and improved a lot.... I appreciate you're videos because you seem to me to be transparent while speaking and thus in your way of thinking. About the topic of this video I wanna say that the culture of face is spread all around the world. In Asia the face culture is mixed with harmony culture. I'd like if you want to explain us more about harmony culture. Last thing, the negative aspects about face culture get bigger in a capitalistic society spread in western countries and in Korea, that is among others asian countries, much westernised. Are you agree? What do you think about it? Watch you soon 😉!! 🖐️
Supposedly Korea has the worst "cockpit culture" in the world for the reasons you described. Not questioning the Captain's decision can sometimes be fatal. However, there are many positives for trying to preserve face and maintain harmony. It keeps the group moving along. Prefer this insightful, reflective and objective Rachel to blond haired Rachel; however, both are adorable!
Korea needs to learn how to love and value themselves and how respect is earned. Luxury items does not bring true happiness. Happiness comes from people you love and they love everything about you. Not what's on your back or what you're carrying around. Gift giving comes from the heart not the value of the gift. To improve a company, it comes together when all minds acts collectively and respectively. Koreans could be a happier society if they open their minds and value each other. Not the value of their clothes, value of gift or closing their mind to others thoughts. I know no society is perfect but in some aspects, Korea needs to find value in humanity.
Zero concept of 'face' in Ireland, and if someone thinks they're due a certain level of service because of their wealth or fame...they're in for a big disappointment 🤣🤣(even former Presidents have to take taxis😎😎) Christmas is about the only 'commercial gift giving' time in Ireland, other times would be an invite to a birthday or wedding. Businesses give gifts at Christmas as a 'thank you' for the customers patronage throughout the year , but there is no automatic expection of a gift.
....This sounds similar to Arab/Egyptian cultures.....🤔 When you are invited to someone's house (for a special occasion or even just dinner) it's an unwritten rule to take with you a gift ( in the past I've taken fancy sweet food or gateau) It's exhausting.....
The showoff nature and the social ladder status is something that s in every country with some variable,on the workplace it can be highly counterproductive. Every culture has this kinds of ups and downs 😅
I remember being asked to wait over 2 hours just to walk into a Cartier store in Seoul. I thought it was a joke or a scam at the time, turns out that’s just how it is, and people actually line up just to check out luxury good shops
Expecting a gift in return is quite sad and it is not a gift at all. ‘Keeping up with the Joneses’ is extremely harmful as is putting on a front. Was very saddened to hear of another suicide in South Korea. I lament at the many paradoxes.
1. If i lived in SK, i would do a luxury rental business because flexing to be a trend in SK 😂 2. If i lived in SK, i would build a media or be a journalist because it seems like it would make me a lot of money. I put out news based on the revenue, ill get from sources that want to use me. IF they want a very very good image, then i cover all the bad image that exist in them by all means. Besides, i can also earn money from them by blackmailing them 😂. If they want to discredit other people / person for some purpose or diversion, i will do whatever it takes to do that n i can get money from both sides 😂
I think the creance are probably really hard working and really study hard enter probably really educated and some of them a few of them anyway might be just a little bit with a Krazy.
A lot of young MZ generation in Korea have massive poor spending habits. They would spend several months' worth of their salary to buy a 'luxury' leather bag, but save almost nothing for their future housing. Hence, many of them still live with their parents till their 30s or even 40s.
In Spain this is brutal. We know so many people who can freeze at home. Eat lentils. Just pure rubbish. Just to show off and show another face to their friends, family, colleagues….
i love korean food, music and movies. they make good quality products but no one told me how racist Koreans are. they're prejudice towards north koreans and racist towards other Asians. that's what no one told me. Of all the Asian ethnicities, they're up there as being the most racist, there's even a survey on it.
To keep up with the Joneses is an English expression. Hence, this trait is really not unique just in Korea. It’s fairly widespread in almost all societies. A better word to describe he trait is : CONSUMERISM. The cure is to turn off all forms of advertisements coming onto the social media, television, radio….
When I when was teaching English years ago in South Korea, part of me liked the Saving Face concept, because growing up on Long Island, NY, but also in much of America in general, people are overall more confrontational in my culture. I found it easier to be diplomatic with people over South Korea. But, I clearly understand what you're saying about how the concept of saving face can come across sometimes as disingenuous and inauthentic. Plus, it can also prevent honest discussion of new ideas or new ways of thinking or addressing problems. It can discourage people from speaking when necessary and when it's important. I like the whole respect for authority figures in South Korean Culture, because I honestly feel that American Culture is often too rebellious and antagonistic by comparison to South Korean Culture. But sort get what your saying here about how the Korean concept of "Face or Image" can make people overly conformist in many respects. It can also make people care too much about what orhers around them think. But on the other side of coin it probably reduces crime and violence in your society, because Koreans don't want to bring shame upon their families, relatives, community, etc. In America nobody cares about or much considers bringing shame upon their family, because it doesn't really exist in my culture. In America, it's so individualistic here, that you can have a member of your family become a murderer and it won't affect the reputation of the rest of their family at all. Folks here, will just say, "Oh, Jerrey Daimler (Serial Killer) was just the "Black Sheep" of his family." That's the way people generally look at things here in America. Now, if a particular family in mind appears to have a whole bunch of shady characters within it, then yes word will definitely get around here in my culture inevitably. People will be like, "Avoid these people or this particular family or group at all cost. They are bad news all around!" But yeah, culture is a very interesting type of human concept. It effects how we each perceive things as individuals. What's polite in one culture could literally be rude in another culture and vice versa. As I get older though, I'm really getting very tired or weary of confrontational arrogant nature of people here in America. Everybody always has to be right all the time over here. At least in Korea the concept of saving face can and does at times project some sense of humbleness. I'd rather deal with humble people as I get older. It's less stressful for me personally. The side of "Face" dealing with buying luxury goods to look the part is very similar to the "keeping up with the Jones mentality" which I grew up with on Long Island, NY and which now exists in much of America these days. Rachel Kim please don't go into lots of personal consumer debt to impress others. It's not worth doing so. Trust me, it really isn't. Some people are going to genuinely like you for who you are already in this world and some are not going to like you regardless of how high your social status may be or become. Some people in this world you're not going to please no matter what you do or don't do. I learned this truth from my father who was natural gas salesmens. One in ten your almost never ever going to please, no matter what you do or say to them. Take this truth to heart as you build your future business empire!
I'm korean (live in US) and I feel korea is truly toxic. If you deviate even the tiniest amount from the norm you will be ostracized like a leper or as if you have the bubonic plague. But i can see how koreans may seem less confrontational than people in long Island. I don't believe koreans are genuinely kinder or nicer, just less confident in speaking against the hierarchy or against superiors. I must say though all I know about Long Island is the US TV show The Nanny where Fran Drescher and her mother are from Queens, Long Island, and they can spar plenty in their long Island accents!
@@danielkim7841 I think as a get older I just don't want to deal with all violent crime and political correctness anymore in American Society. I'm fully aware that South Korea isn't some social utopia, but compared to America these days at least it's well grounded in traditional values like family respect and family honor. At least it has societal standards. What real or true societal standards does America really have? America is literal free for all society where everybody is narcissistically obsessed with their own rights on the left and the right and nobody really has any sense of personal responsibility for much of anything in terms of famalial or greater civic responsibility towards anyone over here in the USA. Everything is pass the buck or pass the blame over here to someone else. I love Koreans more than Americans because they're far more inclined to take responsibility when they fail or mess up something. That's no longer the moral character of your average american. So yeah, overall I trust Koreans significantly more so than Americans for this reason. They have overall better integrity and disciple than Americans have these days. Integrity and Discipline are basically the fundamental cornerstones of ones overall moral character. I learned this as a boy from my maternal grandfather who grew up in rural Kansas.
" You gotta say yes to another excess" Dieter Meier 🇨🇭🎵 Yello music. Having extra things in life is good. What is worst is when people are double faced . This is the worst feature ,especially in your " friends". By the way Rachel, you look so lovely 🌹
Those who wants to keep face as a cultural practice are way too old-fashioned, unreasonable, and extreme. If people care so much about reputation just don't do crap that would taint your reputation it's simple enough. Side note you can live with integrity/dignity without putting up a front. And your superiors/others should never be allowed to abuse you because of their authority/social status. Freedom of expression/speech makes room for an authentic conversation that could get somewhere more productive/progressive. Being afraid to voice your opinions sounds more like a dictatorship than a democracy just saying.
I think I would be unhappy in a society where conformity is so prevailing. Also the concept of ''face'' or honor, is very annoying : you can't speak your mind freely without the risk of upsetting people who sometimes need to be told some truths. Generally it goes in par with a culture of never ending cycle of vandettas.
Sooo if there is an expectation for a gift to be given if you receive a gift. Then it’s not a gift. It’s a trade. A gift is free of any expectations, it is without any strings. It is an expression of esteem held toward the receiver. A thank you is all that is needed. You cheapen it if you get one just because you gave one.
Many people dislike getting gifts in Korea because of the pressure to give one back.
There are definitely two Koreas for while those in the city worry about such things, many in the rural areas know nothing of such things and are proud of their humble lives.
😀😀😀😀Thanks for the Honesty Rachel..as always. Love you for making things understanding to us USA People..Much Love to you always~~~~~~~
I believe this concept can be found in certain forms in most countries that have been in some ways influenced by Confucianism - including China, Japan, or Vietnam.
I love how Rachel focused on how it plays out in Korea, shared her observations on it & how it affects her personally. Great video! 👏
There is a difference between having to be respectful and having to be submissive and I have the impression that in the workplace, the latter is more expected.
I understand "Face" alot of Cultures have their versions of this, Its Relative I guess, Here in US its called "Keeping up with the jones" Thank you Ms Rachel
Interesting ive never heard it said that way before! I always hear "saving face"
@@UpQuick do you live in LA ?
@@mike190ify Haha nah. I’m actually in Canada. Montreal!
Maybe we say it differently across the boarder lol
@@UpQuick I have spent 3 months in Montreal, I love that city, If I could I would move there, But yes our phrasing is different yet also unique, My French is ok not great
a lot of people here are not understanding the degree that sh'e refers to in Korean culture, just because there might be a relatable element in every society. i would say an analogy could be, at christmas time in the West, when you spend money you don't have to be able to be acceptable. at christmas time in America, many might do things outside their norm due to the need to reciprocate, the need to spend a certain amount to not look cheap, adhering to expectations of sending cards, buying gifts, all the thought that goes into that, yet during the year when it's not christmas, in America there is not this pressure. what the author was saying is that Korea this type of pressure is there in every day life around many types of interactions. and of course she touched on not causing conflict which is another topic.
7:02 actually to me, "harmony" and "avoiding conflict" are too expensive when "self-expression" gets hindered.
Koreans care about how they are 'perceived' by others. Perceived is the key word here.
Thanks again Rachel. Oh you might want to mention that Korea has one of the largest credit card debt per capital in the world.
Its a big difference to Australian and generally western culture. Face is not really a thing here - we prefer to be direct and express our true feeling, even if it can offend. Its considered more honest. Also it is quite normal to openly disagree with your boss, I do it all the time and I am not at all senior in the company.
Some of this is universal. A common phrase in the US is "keeping up with the Joneses," which specifically refers to acquiring stuff in order to maintain status in the community: the classic example is feeling pressure to buy a new car simply because a neighbor has done so. And the entire point of luxury goods, in _every_ society, is that the status they convey is wildly disproportionate to any practical benefits they offer (and sometimes "luxury" items are straight-up _less practical_ than less expensive alternatives, even apart from the higher prices they command).
But there is definitely a much stronger emphasis on harmony, particularly on not causing other people to lose face, in Korea (and elsewhere in East Asia) than in North America and Western Europe. Sometimes that produces results which are frankly incomprehensible from an outsider's perspective.
I can’t say this is me. Only look to make myself look and feel happy, can’t do it as an image for others.
And I do give gifts to friends, like snacks or food, but it’s nothing major because I’m not wanting to make them feel bad because they can’t afford the same or feel the pressure to do something similar. I do it just to be a friend with no expectations of them doing something in return. If they do something, it’s because they wanted to through their means without pressure.
This. That is why even though I really like Korean history and culture (so far, from what I have learned about) but in societies of South-East Asia - and especially the countries that have higher standard of living and rising costs related to them (eg. Korea, Japan, China...) will have this overwhelming, absurd pressure towards appearance and, thus, social status.
It is noteworthy to mention as well that in these countries, you're evaluated for a position at a workplace through your face considerably more than your capacities/abilities which is demeaning and discriminatory and thus, prompts many into cosmetic surgery services in order to appear a certain way or fit within a certain beauty standard.
Which is downright awful or even criminal.
If anything, western beauty is one thing - and even that one will vary (eg. Hispanic won't look the same as Anglo-Saxons, Caucasian, or the same as those with dark complexions who may or not descend from African countries, Haiti, Caribbean, etc.) and Eastern beauty is another.
Additionally, are also many ethnic groups within Asia, but because of mainstream media, Hollywood/movies and other media forms we often associate Asia with a specific appearance or stereotype when you have India, Mongolia, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.
We have so many kinds of beauty, shouldn't we respect and celebrate them, instead? Beauty comes in all shapes, sizes, heights, colors, styles, etc.
What I don't get about the luxury goods obsession of Koreans...they seem to love brand names that may have become relatively meaningless as the original designers tend to be already dead and whose products get made in just another sweatshop, possibly in the third world. They do seem to love limited run items too...yet I have yet to notice an appreciation for high quality, custom made craftsmanship.
You are a fucking loser. Also obviously luxury goods are not worth what they charge but they aren’t made in 3rd world country. They market how they are made in atelier in France, Italy or whatever as a way to market their perceived quality. You wouldn’t know what quality goods are if it hit you in the face
it's social status
Thank you for this video, Rachel ssi. I hope Koreans realize that true happiness doesn't come from having a "high status" This is quite saddening.
Saving face is huge all over asia.
Rachael, one reason I am coming to Korea is to go to Musangsa temple south of Seoul. I am a Zen bhuddist of the Hankook Chogyn Zen school. Omg we challenge ourselves to know “true self”. Saving face is not true self at all!! I like that you have questions and opinions. You are a bit more like Asian American woman. It’s a strong and lovely quality!! Keep questioning. Hapchang
This is not a culture by the way, this happened to a wounded society all around the world.
This is one of those upbringing wound which cause by a childhood trauma.
Childhood trauma manifests itself as:
- communication patterns
- coping mechanisms
- inability to self regulate
- chronic fight or flight
- relational patterns (typically dysfunctional)
- low self worth
- chronic hypervigilance.
These are why we tend to seek validation and recognition from others, that our existence has meaning.
That part of the coping mechanisme is by seeking for validation.
And lot of people didn't know that The validation we seek from others is usually the self-love we don't know how to give ourself.
We really need to learn to give ourself that love and respect so we don't have to seek Its elsewhere
If they were to buy gold or something I could understand as it is an investment. However to buy designer products is ridiculous since the value only goes down. Why not put the money into something that could grow your money?
A good video, it's nice topic to hear about and you explained it really well. But I heard a lot of this concept of "face" from other Asian countryes like Phillipines and so on too.
Saving face can work wonders in some instances and works very well when it comes to having people like you and making sure they see only the best sides of you....but like any good thing, it can go too far. Over the years people have made the mistake of thinking Asian people are too soft spoken and could be walked over and taken advantage of because they'd rather save face to look good and polite, when in reality, they can be just as passionate about things and their feelings as much as the next person. Lately it seems a lot of people would rather save their "face" than actually address a certain problem that's obviously hurting not only their people, but others all around them. :( Everyone's human and make mistakes. There's nothing wrong with that.
Very interesting. I'd heard about this before. In the UK and Ireland you can do this in certain circles but the intentions are different. In fact people would be suspicious of overt gift buying. There's a bit of this in the Philippines too where my wife is from but it's not as formal. What I think is different and some Koreans who live in the UK have noticed is that there is a different way that reciprocity is handled. It's much more subtle as is the politeness. But if you don't reciprocate from time to time with favours people think you are taking advantage. And the last thing you want to be is a moocher.
its different story in my country, usually people who's in definition of Rich for 10 generation. they dress up pretty simple but elegance, even they wore shirt pair with short or long cargo pants in daily basic to work. it doesnt mean they ar careless about apperance, they just too busy with their bussines. n as long as i know, people who seems to flexing with they looks, they're not as rich as them the cargo guy
Suppressing your thoughts and feeling often result in other negative manifestations. I'm wondering if that type of thinking is directly related to the Korean drinking culture? Drinking is a means of diluting the reality one lives in because they can't handle the issues head on.
Such a big topic. In exYugoslavia, people dressed casually, after the break up, wars, USA bombing, people started overdressing, all ages, not living there and visiting it felt so wrong... So the unusual conclusion is that violence has something to do with too much pressure on the appearance.
Thank you for the info ❤ from walsenburg COLORADO
.
Great video. I like what you have done with your room ;)
Very interesting information. Thank you !,
Hi Rachel, good evening. I think it's just part of Asian culture. Every country has something synonymous with their culture that could or should be changed. Maybe it's ok to have these things in our cultures. Maybe it's not. I hope you have an amazing evening, take care and God bless you my friend. 🙏🥰
This is very interesting. An aspect of "Face" has morphed and/or broaden itself to become a commodity. Especially when it's commercialized at a high level of expense. 🤔
Long time no see👀👀.. But good to see you🙂😊🙌..
here in visayas region in the philippines i have seen so many foreign exchange korean students since their parents put up a business in beach resorts.. and i remember my korean classmate she said those who buy luxury brands it is because thats a trend like plastic surgeries in kids they even allowed that🤦🏻♀️..but in reality i can say they are more thrifty than over spender 😀 some of them are friendly and some of them are immatures who likes to make fun of others especially if you are poor ... and one thing i can say they judge you base on your physical appearance and wealthy you are
East Asian culture are all like that. Confucius countries regard highly of harmony, respect for the authority, and also save face
there's lots of haters out there so if you have something nicer than they do it's like flipping them the bird
This is a legitimate question. *I need help with making Korean friends.* Where do I go? Rather it be online or IRL?
You didn’t do the little pow gesture at the end. Miss it
Ya! Majority of Asia have this. Saving face thing. I learned about this fact several days ago. Can't believe myself that S.K spent more than U.S and China. I actually thought China would be #1. I learned yr ago that lots of S K have debt and lots of finance stress which led to lots of suicidal as well. I hope the society change or it would burns everyone out. I have ur notification on but I didn't see ur notice of upload.
Chinese Culture is the same, many other culture does the same thing as well. It's more habitual IMO, but my folks always trying to save face, bragging and boasting about irrelevant stuff. If someone gave me something I usually want to return and reciprocate with the same value, that was the old thinking, if someone get me a car there ain't no way I will reciprocate if I can't afford it. My close friend disclose that to me when I picked up the bill. Since he always buys me food, paids for sporting events, I'm grateful but he has a family to look after as well. One time I ended up treating him to a pretty pricy dinner. In the end he was grateful for the meal, but he explained to me it really wasn't nessessary. We shouldn't put value on time spent with families and friends. That's what a job is for.
Though the statistic of Koreans purchaing luxery goods and custom of gifting described in the videos are accurate, the reasons behind such acts are to each individuals. There are so many different mindset behind why ppl practice certain acts yet she makes it sound like there is only one motivation which she called as "saving the face". It maybe the reality to her, if that is the perspective she choses to live in, but I couldn't agree with her that is the perspective I or Korean ppl I know uphold. I gift to show my appreciation to someone. Never to "save my face" as she calls it. I find the perspective she holds rather skewed towards the negative.
OMG Rachel long time no see
it's been over a yr i've seen your videos
but now it came on my fyp
and when the video started
i was like - hmmm she looks familiar, ooo it's Rachel, Rachel Kim
you're more attractive now ngl
this is kinda in every country depending on your economic status
It exists everywhere under different name and concept
Hi. I want to to congrats with you. I've followed your video sporadically through the last two, three years and your way of thinking and thus speaking matured and improved a lot.... I appreciate you're videos because you seem to me to be transparent while speaking and thus in your way of thinking. About the topic of this video I wanna say that the culture of face is spread all around the world. In Asia the face culture is mixed with harmony culture. I'd like if you want to explain us more about harmony culture. Last thing, the negative aspects about face culture get bigger in a capitalistic society spread in western countries and in Korea, that is among others asian countries, much westernised. Are you agree? What do you think about it? Watch you soon 😉!! 🖐️
Supposedly Korea has the worst "cockpit culture" in the world for the reasons you described. Not questioning the Captain's decision can sometimes be fatal. However, there are many positives for trying to preserve face and maintain harmony. It keeps the group moving along. Prefer this insightful, reflective and objective Rachel to blond haired Rachel; however, both are adorable!
Gift-giving is the law of reciprocity. You can’t give less than you get
what a dumb perspective you got there..
That is part of the culture I really like. An cultural effort to not cause conflict because of your personal beliefs is great - until it goes too far.
But in k-drama there's a lot of violance, hitting each other even is slow and romantic ones...
Yeah, I know about the cultures now in Korea ❤❤❤ I want to make friends over there and shopping restaurants and bakeries, and to meet idols!!!
Korea needs to learn how to love and value themselves and how respect is earned. Luxury items does not bring true happiness. Happiness comes from people you love and they love everything about you. Not what's on your back or what you're carrying around. Gift giving comes from the heart not the value of the gift. To improve a company, it comes together when all minds acts collectively and respectively. Koreans could be a happier society if they open their minds and value each other. Not the value of their clothes, value of gift or closing their mind to others thoughts. I know no society is perfect but in some aspects, Korea needs to find value in humanity.
Zero concept of 'face' in Ireland, and if someone thinks they're due a certain level of service because of their wealth or fame...they're in for a big disappointment 🤣🤣(even former Presidents have to take taxis😎😎) Christmas is about the only 'commercial gift giving' time in Ireland, other times would be an invite to a birthday or wedding. Businesses give gifts at Christmas as a 'thank you' for the customers patronage throughout the year , but there is no automatic expection of a gift.
....This sounds similar to Arab/Egyptian cultures.....🤔
When you are invited to someone's house (for a special occasion or even just dinner) it's an unwritten rule to take with you a gift ( in the past I've taken fancy sweet food or gateau)
It's exhausting.....
saving face is an asian thing in general, before there was hangul, the Korean language used Chinese characters like everyone other asian language.
The showoff nature and the social ladder status is something that s in every country with some variable,on the workplace it can be highly counterproductive. Every culture has this kinds of ups and downs 😅
Sounds exhausting!
I remember being asked to wait over 2 hours just to walk into a Cartier store in Seoul. I thought it was a joke or a scam at the time, turns out that’s just how it is, and people actually line up just to check out luxury good shops
Expecting a gift in return is quite sad and it is not a gift at all.
‘Keeping up with the Joneses’ is extremely harmful as is putting on a front. Was very saddened to hear of another suicide in South Korea. I lament at the many paradoxes.
Today I learned I am actually korean
1. If i lived in SK, i would do a luxury rental business because flexing to be a trend in SK 😂
2. If i lived in SK, i would build a media or be a journalist because it seems like it would make me a lot of money. I put out news based on the revenue, ill get from sources that want to use me.
IF they want a very very good image, then i cover all the bad image that exist in them by all means. Besides, i can also earn money from them by blackmailing them 😂.
If they want to discredit other people / person for some purpose or diversion, i will do whatever it takes to do that n i can get money from both sides 😂
I don't care what people think cuz I know I'm better than they are
I think the creance are probably really hard working and really study hard enter probably really educated and some of them a few of them anyway might be just a little bit with a Krazy.
I wonder for everyone buying luxury goods how long the happiness last. I’m sure there’s a study somewhere 🤔
A lot of young MZ generation in Korea have massive poor spending habits. They would spend several months' worth of their salary to buy a 'luxury' leather bag, but save almost nothing for their future housing. Hence, many of them still live with their parents till their 30s or even 40s.
In Spain this is brutal. We know so many people who can freeze at home. Eat lentils. Just pure rubbish. Just to show off and show another face to their friends, family, colleagues….
i love korean food, music and movies. they make good quality products but no one told me how racist Koreans are. they're prejudice towards north koreans and racist towards other Asians. that's what no one told me. Of all the Asian ethnicities, they're up there as being the most racist, there's even a survey on it.
To keep up with the Joneses is an English expression. Hence, this trait is really not unique just in Korea. It’s fairly widespread in almost all societies. A better word to describe he trait is : CONSUMERISM. The cure is to turn off all forms of advertisements coming onto the social media, television, radio….
Thank Rachel !! 😁I am going to korea in two days !! If my wife and me see you will we will say hi !! 😁 we will be going to Seoul and jeju island.
When I when was teaching English years ago in South Korea, part of me liked the Saving Face concept, because growing up on Long Island, NY, but also in much of America in general, people are overall more confrontational in my culture. I found it easier to be diplomatic with people over South Korea. But, I clearly understand what you're saying about how the concept of saving face can come across sometimes as disingenuous and inauthentic. Plus, it can also prevent honest discussion of new ideas or new ways of thinking or addressing problems. It can discourage people from speaking when necessary and when it's important. I like the whole respect for authority figures in South Korean Culture, because I honestly feel that American Culture is often too rebellious and antagonistic by comparison to South Korean Culture. But sort get what your saying here about how the Korean concept of "Face or Image" can make people overly conformist in many respects. It can also make people care too much about what orhers around them think. But on the other side of coin it probably reduces crime and violence in your society, because Koreans don't want to bring shame upon their families, relatives, community, etc. In America nobody cares about or much considers bringing shame upon their family, because it doesn't really exist in my culture. In America, it's so individualistic here, that you can have a member of your family become a murderer and it won't affect the reputation of the rest of their family at all. Folks here, will just say, "Oh, Jerrey Daimler (Serial Killer) was just the "Black Sheep" of his family." That's the way people generally look at things here in America. Now, if a particular family in mind appears to have a whole bunch of shady characters within it, then yes word will definitely get around here in my culture inevitably. People will be like, "Avoid these people or this particular family or group at all cost. They are bad news all around!" But yeah, culture is a very interesting type of human concept. It effects how we each perceive things as individuals. What's polite in one culture could literally be rude in another culture and vice versa. As I get older though, I'm really getting very tired or weary of confrontational arrogant nature of people here in America. Everybody always has to be right all the time over here. At least in Korea the concept of saving face can and does at times project some sense of humbleness. I'd rather deal with humble people as I get older. It's less stressful for me personally.
The side of "Face" dealing with buying luxury goods to look the part is very similar to the "keeping up with the Jones mentality" which I grew up with on Long Island, NY and which now exists in much of America these days.
Rachel Kim please don't go into lots of personal consumer debt to impress others. It's not worth doing so. Trust me, it really isn't.
Some people are going to genuinely like you for who you are already in this world and some are not going to like you regardless of how high your social status may be or become. Some people in this world you're not going to please no matter what you do or don't do. I learned this truth from my father who was natural gas salesmens. One in ten your almost never ever going to please, no matter what you do or say to them. Take this truth to heart as you build your future business empire!
I'm korean (live in US) and I feel korea is truly toxic. If you deviate even the tiniest amount from the norm you will be ostracized like a leper or as if you have the bubonic plague. But i can see how koreans may seem less confrontational than people in long Island. I don't believe koreans are genuinely kinder or nicer, just less confident in speaking against the hierarchy or against superiors. I must say though all I know about Long Island is the US TV show The Nanny where Fran Drescher and her mother are from Queens, Long Island, and they can spar plenty in their long Island accents!
@@danielkim7841 I think as a get older I just don't want to deal with all violent crime and political correctness anymore in American Society. I'm fully aware that South Korea isn't some social utopia, but compared to America these days at least it's well grounded in traditional values like family respect and family honor. At least it has societal standards. What real or true societal standards does America really have? America is literal free for all society where everybody is narcissistically obsessed with their own rights on the left and the right and nobody really has any sense of personal responsibility for much of anything in terms of famalial or greater civic responsibility towards anyone over here in the USA. Everything is pass the buck or pass the blame over here to someone else. I love Koreans more than Americans because they're far more inclined to take responsibility when they fail or mess up something. That's no longer the moral character of your average american. So yeah, overall I trust Koreans significantly more so than Americans for this reason. They have overall better integrity and disciple than Americans have these days. Integrity and Discipline are basically the fundamental cornerstones of ones overall moral character. I learned this as a boy from my maternal grandfather who grew up in rural Kansas.
Rachel ! It’s pronounced as cha Ching not Ka Ching
The discord sound at 00:52 had me so confused
" You gotta say yes to another excess" Dieter Meier 🇨🇭🎵 Yello music. Having extra things in life is good. What is worst is when people are double faced . This is the worst feature ,especially in your " friends". By the way Rachel, you look so lovely 🌹
Thank U Rachel! ❤️
Hello! ❤❤❤🙏🙏🙏🙏...
Annyeong Rachel, You are such beauty with brain..
I dont know,from a middle estern standpoint, korea is lit in everyway.
Those who wants to keep face as a cultural practice are way too old-fashioned, unreasonable, and extreme. If people care so much about reputation just don't do crap that would taint your reputation it's simple enough. Side note you can live with integrity/dignity without putting up a front. And your superiors/others should never be allowed to abuse you because of their authority/social status. Freedom of expression/speech makes room for an authentic conversation that could get somewhere more productive/progressive. Being afraid to voice your opinions sounds more like a dictatorship than a democracy just saying.
I think I would be unhappy in a society where conformity is so prevailing. Also the concept of ''face'' or honor, is very annoying : you can't speak your mind freely without the risk of upsetting people who sometimes need to be told some truths. Generally it goes in par with a culture of never ending cycle of vandettas.
kavah
👍
It's ok if you can afford it but should not go into debt for it.
That is so messed up
Never cared! I must be antisocial.😅
You Koreans are so Good Looking.
Culture? Yes
Food? Yes
Girls? Yes
I love you so much ❤️
Is South Korea worth Visiting? YES!
Face thing is all the same for all cultures Not Koreans!
Do you have boyfriend. I want to be your boyfriend.