I jammed my little Winchester Wrangler .44mag when I was 19. Toppled a cartridge under the carrier. A loooong time ago. I had no clue about how to take it apart, so it went to the gunsmith. When he handed it back, he said "work this gun like you're tryin' to tear it up."
I have to agree. I myself witness people every day handling firearms 'gingerly' and much more slowly than they are meant to be and seems that the more people do this, the less the firearms work as designed. The things are built to handle extreme pressures and speed of the mechanisms.
I had to take automatic part that was jam so bad that it couldn’t even be taken apart, because it had a live cartridge stuck in the barrel, what is required a lot of work to get the action to open so that we can get the cartridge out, The people hadn’t been able to shoot it for years with that cartridge stuck in there
@@blakedavis2447 I will say that when I handle a firearm that is unloaded, I will ride the action forward as there are those that say the actions aren't meant to 'slam' forward on empty chambers. However, when using live ammo or dummy rounds, I let it fly full speed as that is required to reliably strip the round from the magazine. Yup, just tell your grandpa to smack the weapon around, lol
@@Jazzman-bj9fq I told him what to do then my uncle said the same thing and he was like “oh so that’s how it works” Btw it was at the rage with live rounds
I'm a Cowboy Acton shooter using a Rossi 92 44 rifle shooting 2k rounds a year . With Zero failures in over 10 years with the same rifle . And Zero parts replace after the initial setup 10 years ago . I know many people shoot AR15's more then that a year . But I have to say . That's pretty dang reliable if you ask me
You are selling yourself short. It takes skill to run a lever very well. Plus the setup is very important and almost a lost skill, again that’s user operation.
I dont think they're saying its unreliable, they are just saying that its more robust than a semi auto due to simplicity is a misconception. The innards are actually more complex than an AR from a user end point of takedown and maintenance, which I agree with. Levers are plenty reliable, but are they more reliable than a semi auto like an AR because of their perceived simplicity? No they are not.
The guy in this video lacks any real world experience with lever action rifles, and there fore his opinion is about worthless. I have carried Winchester lever guns for many decades and never had any problems with them. ... im glad to hear about your rossi 44 mag. I just got one a couple months ago, and i am impressed with mine. I have not had any problems with the couple hundred rounds i put thru it. I think the rossi quality is pretty darn good.
Lever actions vs modern semi autos, is rather like comparing a good mechanical watch to a gshock quartz watch.. sure mechanical watches have been around for a long time and have even been to the moon and back, but they require a different level of care and maintenance more suited to a slower paced world
Absolutely this. You are pretty spoiled for choice with modern day semi-autos. Leverguns biggest strength is their versatility. But modern day semi-autos with modern day ammo are just as reliable. Everything you can do with a levergun, I can do with a modern day AR style rifle. *The question is: which one fits your circumstances the most? The world of firearms is infinitely subjective.* I got a bro living in a log cabin in the middle of a forest running a 30/30 for home defense (where 9 times out of 10 an intruder on his property is an animal but a person isn't uncommon). I also have a bro living in downtown Austin Texas running a 5.56 AR for home defense because he lives in an apartment (where a 55gr high velocity bullet will minimize risk of collateral damage while maximizing effectiveness against attackers + the 30rd mag since multiple attackers are the norm for home invasions). Both of these are the best possible guns to run ...for each of their separate circumstances.
@@bebop_557 "Everything you can do with a lever gun I can do with a modern day AR rifle". How about "topping off", (adding more rounds to keep the magazine full)?. You can't do that with an AR. With an AR you either toss the mag away, (with unused rounds in it), or risk having to change magazines at an in-opportunistic time.
@@richardhinman3183 You can set up to load through the ejection port if you really want to. A tactical reload has all the benefits and more of ""topping off". It's unlikely that someone can get more than 2 rounds in to a lever action in the time someone can switch mags. You can then top off that mag as time allows. Many lever action only load from the end as well.
@@scoo73r only Henry uses a tube load. Marlin Winchester and mossberg all use side gate loading and browning has a detachable box magazine for their lever guns
@@richardhinman3183 You can't do that with an AR. But you can do that with any semi-auto that is set up for stripper clips, and has a bolt hold that can be manually activated. SKS and Vz58 can be arranged in this manner.
I have a Marlin 30 30. I've owned it for 36 years. It's never failed to fire, eject a cartridge, seized up, or stoved a round. It's been in rain, mud, freezing and hot weather, got some rust, been dropped, kicked, and bounced around in the back of my truck. Not once has a screw backed out and it's never had a broken part. It's the best and most reliable rifle I own.
I've worked on a fair number of lever actions as a gunsmith. Only a few needed repair that involved replacing parts. Most of my work was cleaning, refinishing, or touch up bluing. They are not the best SHTF rifle but a do everything hunting gun. I usually like them better than bolt actions.
Bought myself a Henry Golden Boy for Christmas... been my dream gun since I was a young boy. Nostalgia at its best.... makes me feel like a cowboy kid shooting my soda/pop cans! Great video by the way, as always you put out great content!
Did the same with a Big Boy in .44. My only regret is that I didn't research the cost of care and feeding for the beast. You'd think that 44 Mag ammo had gold cores and were blessed by the Pope himself.
A man does an entire series on lever action rifles to show how much he enjoys them and because he has the audacity to have an honest conversation about reliability (which is not even close to saying lever actions suck) I see people triggered in the comments. They’re inanimate objects people. Good job as always.
Good job. I've run several thousand rounds through a lever action, repaired many and tuned for competition many and I find your comments to be spot on.
Yeah anything can have trouble! Maintenance being the key however in 50 plus years as an active shooter I've never seen a maintained lever action or a revolver lock up so to speak. Anything mechanical can and will fail if not taken care of. People do get struck by lightning and bit by sharks! Take care of your chosen firearm and it will take care of you, and train , train, train . And hey the sky is not falling! So calm down and don't be so damn serious about everything. And try to have fun while at the range or just a day out plinking. P.S. If Biden/Harris win the presidency the sky will fall!! The constitution means little to those libatards!!! Stay safe and God bless 🇺🇸☠️🇺🇸!!!!
Yes, but with revolvers it is (1) very rare, (2) usually user induced error. Lever actions are inherently not as reliable as other operating systems. So, I would not hesitate to use a revolver for self defense, but i would not use a lever action unless had nothing better, even though I love them. Still, there is nothing more beautiful than a straight stock Winchester.
@@mountainhobo - I have to disagree with the "inherently less reliable". I've never had a lever malfunction for me except once when I fed an 1873 44 Specials. Didn't know way back then that "44 WCF" meant "44-40". Looking at the fired cases sent me back to the drawing board for a better understanding of what was going on. Now, I will agree with you if you are talking about the original Henry's with the split mag tube, or the next gen without a forearm, or the inherent weakness of the '73's linkage, and those kinds of things, but not "inherently less reliable".
Bad ammo can stop the best gun in the world. Take notice of the over all length of your ammo when loading your weapon. A long or short round can jam up or catastrophicly fail. And dont trust other peoples reloads, just don't.
Yep, I started hand loading for my revolvers which is as forgiving as it gets for sloppy procedure. When I started using the ammo in my lever gun and doing semi-auto cartridges it became clear that despite what some people say proper case prep is just as important for handgun cartridges. Just about all issues I had with feed issues was due to inconsistent OAL and damage at the case mouth in which a little bit of deburring on all of my casings eliminated most problems. You don't have to do this for every loading but when you have a bunch of mixed brass you've just bought a couple hours of case trimming can save many, many more hours of frustration down the line.
@@jeffumbach you are so right. I am 60. Been reloading since I was a kid. I have made all the mistakes and learned, there are no shortcuts. The other thing I learned was to take time to learn the mechanical side of lever guns. I took a 1894CB 357mag and slicked it up internally. It runs perfectly. It also runs on carefully crafted handloads.
Dovetailing into the ammo troubles, some leverguns can be quite troublesome with their weak primary extraction if you get overpressure cartridges (looking at you, PPU). The bolt on a regular bolt action might get a little sticky, but you have a lot of mechanical advantage stuffed into a very small space with that bolt. With my 94, it was an absolute bear to extract troublesome cases. And thank you for bringing up screws. When I was a broke young college kid first owning a 94, I very much did not have the tools for the job and had to break out the Mosin tool to help with some of those arbitrarily narrow screwheads.
Interesting views. Don't agree with all of them, but you made some good points. Regarding the AR styles, yes, they were battle inspired and problems in the battlefield were gradually corrected. However, the AR styles are gas impingement into the action. In fact, the first field reports were complete and total failures because the Army used the wrong powder. Worked fine with the correct powder, but the wrong powder turned them into paperweights. In a prepper scenario, powder choices may be limited and you might not get what keeps AR's happy. Semiautomatics fling cases. In the short term, this won't matter a whole lot, but in an extended "emergency" being able to save your fired cases might be VERY important. Personal experience tells me that I will only save 25% of fired cases from a semiautomatic unless I make advance arrangements to catch them all such as on a range during practice. Levers are more forgiving of powder variations and of reloaded ammo, and bolts are much more forgiving. You are quite correct about the screws. Most times it isn't an issue, but it seems like one or two of every 10 or 15 guns will have at least one screw that insists on working loose. Before loc-tite, we fixed that with a small piece of cardboard coated with rubber cement. Regarding the Marlin that you mentioned "locking up tight", the Marlins will all refuse to work right if the loading gate screw is loose. Not much else will cause that particular problem in a Marlin. One thing that I always think about is that a lever action can be fixed with some files and some good metal and a vice to hold the work. A bolt gun requires a lathe to make all the internals, and a semiautomatic does best with premade drop-in parts. Something to think about. Of course, if simplicity is the primary factor, a single shot is always the simplest type of action. Anyway, good points and something to think about.
I was going to say that the least complex and hence most reliable would be a single shot but you beat me to it :) . Also, proper and diligent care, matenance and handling go a very long way to maintaining reliability.
Yeah but, lever actions are just so fun to run overall. I know they're more complicated than a bolt action, but man running a lever gun is just so satisfying. I personally would never claim that they are easier to service. Just more fun to shoot. 😎👍😎
I have three Marlins, all are easy to shoot, and overall, easier to clean than an AR. Just a few relatively large parts. There are even manufacturers that make thumbscrew type machine screws for the lever pivot, so you don't need a screwdriver to clean the weapon. AR15s, M16s, and M4s are NOT fun to clean after extended usage.
My 87 is a little tricky but basically the receiver just kinda bangs around loose unless it has a shell on it or you're working the action. Luckily I was able to use a pocket knife for disassembly and reassembly. It's like a fraction of a second slower than a pump but I don't particularly care, it fits my hands quite well and feels very comfortable and familiar, which is extremely important when selecting a firearm
Although most of this chit chat is about larger caliber lever guns, I have two Winchester 9422 rimfire lever guns, one .22LR and the other .22WMR, both that have had thousands of rounds thru them and never ever has either of them had a 'glitch' or a jam or feed problem ever ! Even the .22 magnum has never had a mechanical problem. I don't shoot the magnum anymore as ammo is too expensive now. Also, I have a Browning BL22 lever and it too has never had even a little 'glitch', ever ! All these lever guns are silky-smooth in mechanical operation but I do make note that they are all tubular fed and not side loading which indeed is more complicated. AND I take super care of them all !
I'm a gunsmith and they are very reliable, but when you get a problem it's a big one. And they are miserable to fix and put back together. But I still love them and most people won't ever shoot them enough to experience a problem.
To be fair, if we're talking about a post-apocalyptic survival weapon, lever actions do have an incredibly specific advantage in that they're a manual action that can generally work well with black powder. If enough time passes in the post-apocalyptic world, factory made ammunition and reloading components will dry up and people will often need to resort to using homemade black powder in their ammunition, perhaps with the exception of particularly successful settlements that have factory production up and running on a small scale. So, anything with a gas system like an AR or AK will be toast at that point, and any semi-automatic without a gas system would become to fouled to function after only a magazine or two (people have tested semi-automatic pistols with black powder rounds and they can be reliable for a small number of rounds). In this world manual actions like lever actions and pump actions would shine. So, if you really want a gun for every conceivable prepping scenario, this would be the kind of thing to buy lol
Primers. End of story. I'd much rather run my AR until I am out of x thousands of rounds of ammo and then switch to my .54 St. Louis hawken than try to reload boxer primers with whatever fulminate or chlorate compound i come up with. (And yes, I'd much rather make percussion gaps with that stuff then try to do boxer primers)
Family has model 43 and 73 we still shot today. They came across the country in the 1800s in a covered wagon. Like you said it just good maintenance keep her working still today.
"Left to rust in the back of the closet". Indicates poor care of the rifle. Any rifle not properly serviced will have issues. Love my lever action rifle. True, bolt action rifles are the most simple mechanically.
You missed what he actually said. They were "left to rust in the back of the closet" because they were already broken and worn out before being left there.
To Keith Graham: If you can consider expanding the Trinity to a Quartet I'll nominate Robert Fuller, who was a maestro with speed-levering 5-In-1 blanks through his studio issued 1892 SRCs in dozens of episodes of his starring series, "Laramie" and "Wagon Train," from the late '50s to mid-'60s, both from Revue/Universal Television, and a little 1966 Universal feature western, "Incident at Phantom Hill," in which we were amazed at his ability to empty a tube magazine quicker than had he been firing semi-auto. . . . Along this theme, in interviews about 1950's theatrical "Winchester '73," star Jimmy Stewart recalled from the confines of his Arizona location motel room at night, furiously practicing an expert's working of a lever action rifle to such a degree and devotion that his hands bled. For decades and decades we western fans and lever action lovers specifically have and will continue to be amazed and entertained by the dedication to practice resulting in developed skills evident on screens, big and small, of and by Scott, Connors, the Duke, Fuller and Stewart -- making their characters look like they were born with a Winchester in their hands. . . . Oh, a last-minute candidate/addition: "Hombre" from 1967 wherein we see Paul Newman's oft-silent half-breed deftly dispose of his opponents with his 1873 carbine, with button magazine, 44 WCF (.44-40). Like Connors' "The Rifleman" and The Duke, Newman's "Hombre" was equally adept firing from the hip as from the shoulder. . . . Okay, before I 'wear out my welcome' and speaking of big and small screen, I'll close with a viewing recommendation, Universal TV's 1967 remake (for NBC) of Stewart's "Winchester '73" now with the apostrophe pre 73 absent, i.e., "Winchester 73" is the TV movie's title. Like the original, the studio used an original Winchester, following Universal's cross-USA search for rare 'one-of-a-thousand' and 'one-of-a-hundred' editions. No Italian interpretations allowed/necessary. Check out big, handsome Tom Tryon (Disney's TV western hero, Texas John Slaughter himself!) in Stewart's role; John Saxon very effective as the cold-blooded, killer brother, essayed by Dan Duryea in the original. Duryea's back here as is John Doucette. Doucette's gravel-voiced bartender wields a side-by-side shotgun behind his portable, blacksmith-created, iron-plated shield atop the bar at his remote way station's dusty, grimy saloon, which affords him one of the more colorful, deadly lines in the picture via his attempts to 'keep the peace:' "You'd make an awful mess on my floor." It's at this 'colorful' location we see John Dehner filling in for John McIntire as the card-sharp/gun-trader to any-and-all including the nearby hostile Indians (i.e., no scruples); and BarBara Luna as the pretty, 'seen-it-all,' fiery Latina saloon girl who deals cards for Dehner while waiting for her way out, ANY way out of this miserable outpost. . . . Duryea's gone from 1950 villain to 1967 nice, playing father to the mismatched brothers, Tryon and Saxon. For western movie and TV aficionados a real treat is to see multiple views of the extensive, oh-so-familiar western streets' set-up at Universal Studios' (then massive) backlot. The TV budget limited location filming to the nearby, familiar-looking, southern California desert -- unlike Arizona's wide, open spaces so beautifully captured -- even in b&w -- in 1950's telling. . . . . Here on UA-cam you can see "Winchester 73" scenes -- and sometimes the entire movie, apparently depending on how busy the Universal Studios copyright infringement attorneys are. Universal released it on VHS, back in the Dark Ages when that format ruled, but "Winchester 73" is M.I.A. in DVD and Blu-ray, unlike the 1950 theatrical classic, available in both.
My 44 mag 1892 has been full of bark, tree needles, and dirt in every crevice in the action and never skipped a beat. Any semi auto without a covered action would not have functioned in the conditions that I put my 1892 through. The problem with the levers is if you need to service the internals, what a nightmare. Thing is, is most people will never have to do that. So that being said I disagree to a certain extent.
I have a Marlin 336W 30-30 lever action rifle. I picked it as it has a side ejection port. I haven't used it lately. When I did take it to a rifle range north west of Steubenville, Ohio. I let my son and daughter shoot it after I did. I fired well without any problems for me, my son, and daughter. My daughter also served in the Army as an ordnance specialist.
Well I'm glad I've never had any problems with my Marlin 336 Texan in .30-30. It was built in 1972 and I bought it in 1984. Yes, I've tightened some screws occasionally and I don't run hundreds of rounds through it each year. I've taken care of it and it has never failed.
My first gun was a 10/22. The second was a G19. It is hard to go up from there as far as reliability. But I still love my lever gun. Good video as usual.
Grew up in Southeast Alaska spent some time hunting Sitka blacktail with my grandfathers Winchester model 94 30 30. Brush gun excellent for traversing densely forested areas and steep elevations. I’d recommend not chambering a round until you see something, and keeping the chamber empty afterwards.
I've had my Win94ae since 1983, shot more then 20,000 rounds through it, never jammed once. The Marlin 1894 has jammed quite a few times the first month I had it.
Great video. I've had this conversation with people and they treat this like blasphemy. I personally love and will continue to love using lever action rifles (they're awesome for left-handed shooters like me) but for those of us who have actually take one apart and put one back together, I'm under no delusion that a lever action is some sort of indestructible tank. They're more delicately assembled than most would believe.
Have Winchesters and Marlins lever actions,never had a problem..these are true New Haven Winchester and New Haven Marlin actions... very nice actions! Great Channel!!!
I will say, in some states like NY and a possible bad presidential election result, levers could become defacto go to rifles. So maybe they need to look into evolving and improving the design.
I like lever actions, but I'm not necessarily into the nostalgia for the old cowboy rifles. I think doing some modern evolution on the design would be fantastic!
With regards to your comments about lever-actions being picky about ammunition: In the manual for my Marlin 1894, it says not to use ammunition loaded with Semi-Wadcutter projectiles. I ignored this warning, because I had a lot of 158 grain LSWC ammo loaded for .357 magnum already. Rounds would fire just fine, but they would often hang trying to feed into the chamber. A little wiggle of the lever would get them to go every time...except the last one. I wound up breaking several parts in the lifter assembly. I was able to repair it, but now all of my 158 grain lead bullet reloads are with RNFPs, which work flawlessly.
To me the number.one appeal of lever actions, besides being lever actions, is they use the same ammo as a sidearm so you only need to take one kind of ammo.
Lever actions pack quite a bit of power. My brother was proud of these aluminum discs he'd put together for plinking at the range with his AR-15. I took a few shots with my Marlin 1894C in .357 (or it may have been .38) and he was shouting at me to stop punching holes in his targets.
I like lever action firearms but this dude makes some good points. As much as I love my Marlin I'll pick my AR-15 or something else before I pick my Marlin.
This is for educational purposes only. The user assumes all responsibility and liability. There is an alternative to a "safety delete" button. Make sure the gun is empty, remove the stock. You'll notice a little hex screw covered in some sort of paint on the left side of the gun as you look down the barrel where the stock butts up against the receiver. With the gun off safe, adjust the hex screw at your own risk. Tightening this screw may result in not being able to put the gun back on safe. Beware. You are responsible for your actions.
This is why my AR is my first rifle.. and my Savage makes the no. 2 spot. The winchester is batting cleanup. It's good to have a backup plan for your backup plan! The thudy thudy has a backup plan too.
I own every caliber Marlin has chambered in their levers. I started collecting them 50 years ago. I own Winchester as well. I do my own reloading and I have never in my life had a problem with a lever gun. in over A century of manufacturer, this is The testament to their durability, regardless of what anyone thinks!
Your videos are so well considered and presented. Even though I haven't shot a gun in many decades (City boy, now), they're great to watch and learn from. Thank You!
In my experience, the toggle link Winchester 1873 is the most reliable lever action rifle. I have used one for cowboy action and I never had a jam with proper ammo. The Marlin 1894 is still quite reliable, but you occasionally get the odd hiccup. The Winchester 1894 is quite unreliable when you try to cock it fast. The cartridge often sticks vertically out of the action when you try to run one fast.
Mine doesn't run into that issue. I'm not fast like Cowboy action shooting or anything lol but I can run it as fast if not faster than my American Ranch.
@@ApurtureSci With 92's in .357 a lot of the jams I've seen are ammo related. Wide JHP's like Gold Dots will not feed properly and some flat nose loads that are rather square had the same problems. But that's been my exerpience.
@Joseph Abbott Even the best of pump actions is susceptible to short stroking the pump which will cause problems. Depending on the receiver(steel vs aluminum) that can cause extraction issues if it gets hot. That said, a 12 gauge pumo with a 3 1/2 inch chamber is my preferred choice for a "Survival" gun.
Thanks for the info. Some I knew, some I hadn't considered, but good to have in the brain pan. One serious advantage of the lever gun was overlooked. It is the most practical saddle gun. Because of its narrow, flat profile, it is the best choice for quick access when mounted, as well as comfort for horse and rider.
"But when it's finally time to emerge from your nuclear fallout shelter and help rebuild society you're probably gonna want an AR-15" You ever try to kill a deathclaw with a NCR service rifle?
Well presented and thought out points, every one. Compromises abound any time you try to find the "one fits all" concept, and there are just others that come closer than the lever action. But they are nostalgic, and fun as all get out.
Yep. When cartridge companies brag about "advanced" features such as slightly chamfering the mouth of the brass to increase reliability, it tells you something. (Federal is using that for their line which seems to be aimed at taking market share from hornady leverevolution)
@@Leverguns50 Yes, and the gun took it. I have too. I've done it as well with way out of spec ammo. Having fixed broken examples of both, the AR is a much simpler more robust design. There are fewer ways it can fail, and they are easier to address in the field or in the shop.
Only if you have a shit lever. I absolutely love my AR's, but... my levers are far more powerful and reliable long term. (lets face it, few AR's can match a good 30-30 or the 45-70 or 45-100)
@@obiesunstreak2409 Not true. the ar-15 can be chambered for large bore cartridges such as the .458 socom, .450 bushmaster, or .50 Beowulf. And an ar-10 in .308 is much more powerful than a .30-30. Many would disagree with you on long term reliability as well.
I grew up with lever actions and bolts. They are reliable as can be. I’ve never had jambs like semis. I’ve seen brand new semis fail to feed or eject from the start. Never had that problem with a lever. I have noticed that now days many of the AR guys I know don’t believe in cleaning their guns until they get gummed up. I’ve never had any screws come loose either. Remember it is a design that has lasted for over 100yrs. A lot of men over the years bet their lives on them and came out alive. I did have a hunter education student short stroke my rifle once and get a snap cap stuck. Never have been able to figure out how he did it. I trust my levers an bolts, singles and doubles.
Chris always makes good, well researched critiques. I listen to him and respect him. But my (vastly more limited) experience has been perfect reliability in a 60+ year old Marlin 336 in 30-30 (I also have a Winchester 94 but the Marlin is better in every way). Regular cleaning and care has never been an issue, I take good care of it. I've been shooting it for 35 years myself. It was my dad's new. Every time I'm out at the range, ARs are jammed up. I've fixed more ARs than anything else. I did so yesterday. Their default function is jamming. Now I've never owned one myself, but I don't even want to. Maybe with the same care I give my guns, it'd be okay. I will relent that an AR in Remmington .223 is more accurate, especially at distance. I experienced that when sighting them in. I also reload for them, even though I don't own one. I have routinely embarrassed AR owners with my lever action 30-30 and iron peep sights. In terms of reliability and accuracy, I always come out on top so to speak. I actually wish that wasn't the case. If I could only have one gun, it would be the Marlin 336 in 30-30. The second choice isn't even close. I hope the new ones they are making now are every bit as wonderful as my old one. I haven't verified that.
Marlin 1894 : needs a flat head screw driver as disassembly tool. To deep clean only 3 need to be removed. I shoot mine for the last 20 plus years with 1000 plus rounds ,,no misfire. It goes out to 200 yds and my gunsmith tool is a leatherman. Switching between 44 special and 225 grain FTX also allows for wide range of application, never had an issue, actual mixed it up on purpose to check reliability 👍🏾. I do own AR10/15 platforms and enjoy shooting them , but my to go gun is the 1894
The answer is dependent on the user. A well taken care of, sound rifle with a user competent in its use can be very very reliable. I hunt with a Winchester model 97 that was my great grandfathers. He bought it in 1902. It depends on the user.
This was educational and I agree with what you said on how a lever action ain’t meant to be in dirt/mud and really the AR or any modern rifle has some flaws. Any gun has its flaws and does end up messing up.
All of what you say has merit and I appreciate you bringing this information to us. Depending on needed use and your home state laws an AR may not be an option for you. In my state an AR is not just a long gun, but an assault rifle which requires a higher level firearms license to purchase. Some may not qualify for this license so they need to choose something else. Another possible need is if you travel by car from state to state and want some form of protection a long gun can be a legal choice if locked in your trunk. This is not the best choice, but sometimes the only option. If your traveling and camping, once you get to where your going you can unlock the firearm and make it more readily available if needed. BTW love your videos, you do a great job bringing detailed excellent information to all who watch your channel.
I think this depends, I shoot cowboy action and I do modify my rifles for reliability, for the most part that means removing most of the built in safety's that have been added over the years. Second purple locktight is your friend, purple not red. If the right lever actions are set up the right way they can be extremely dependable, but they are so far from "idiot proof".
I have had a 30-30 Marlin for 35 years, I can hit a soda can at 100 yards with five shots in 10 seconds(maybe less never timed, but max 10 seconds). Deer stand no chance and except for one dud round ( not the rifles fault) it has been flawless. It is well maintained and was rebuilt just before I received it for my 16th birthday. Open sights, it is one of the best rifles I have ever handled. I do not think they are as delicate as described here, but do need to be maintained.
Great balanced & objective overview as always! I agree with everything you've said, however, I live in South Africa where things are crazy right now, and my preferred backup rifle at night is my 357 lever action. It's short and powerful enough for home defense, yet it won't blind me or blow my eardrums should I need to use it indoors at night. Thank you as always for sharing your well balanced opinions with us, and greetings from SA!
Love lever guns. Not as rugged but they can rapid fire keeping your eye on target and the gun grabbers don’t seem to be afraid of them. They are reliable
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
Really went hard on knocking down Marlin's. I've had a total of 3 Marlins. A 30As, a 336CS both 30-30 and 1895SS in 45-70. Never had any problems with any over a 40 year period. The marlin action is nothing like the Winchester that spills it's guts every time the action is cycled. I'm keeping my rugged and reliable Marlins. Good videos, always enjoy watching.👍
The new Marlins have quality control issue though, as do a lot of guns from well-known old brands nowadays. I have a new production Winchester 1892 in .357 Mag made by Miroku in Japan that seems to work well enough after 500 rounds.
No issues at all with the reasoning in this video, just like I have no issues at all with owning both my .357 1894CS Marlin and 10.5" AR Pistol build! However, if the BATF actually starts tea bagging law-abiding citizens for having pistol braces, I wouldn't feel the least bit under-prepared with my Marlin or 181 series Mini-14.
My first choice for a gun fight would be to not find myself in one, second would be with an AR or AK, but third would be my 45-70 lever gun. My safe is set up just that way in fact. One of the biggest positives to come from leverguns for me is it got me started reloading. When I think about leverguns, I think of the beautiful stock and the wonderful time I've spent at the reloading bench...oh there is that nostalgia you were talking about.
That bit about projectile shape is too real. I took me two whole months to discover my .357 1873 absolutely must be fed flat nose projectiles and nothing else. Found a mention of it on a cowboy action gunsmith's page about broken bolt tabs and not gonna lie, I felt pretty dang foolish.
- everything you say is spot on my friend, it also applies to pretty much anything mechanical. I find reliability is proportionally equal to the operator’s level of mechanical empathy.
Iv never had a lever gun apart until I had to help a friend put his back together and boy was I surprised how many parts are on the inside of these things
Clicked on this just because the last lever-action rifle I fired had the word "Daisy" on it. Interesting to see the pros and cons. Nice work, Lucky Gunner!
I see a lot of your points, it really sounds like you’ve been shooting a lot of Henry repeating arms lever actions. but if you used a AR in the same way that the average person use their lever action it wouldn’t work, first of all try shooting black powder out of your AR for 30 years, some people have never even cleaned their gun in 40 years because they’re shooting “smokeless powder it doesn’t need to be cleaned”, they just keep putting more oil on it, and yet when they needed it still functions, and they’ve been stored in the corner of the closet in a house that is not climate controlled, It is true that you can’t shoot the old ones thousands and thousands of times without wearing the barrel out, A lot of them were made out of mild steel not made for use with jacketed bullets or smokeless powder, but the nice thing about the lever action is it doesn’t take very many time shooting it to become very efficient with it, so it doesn’t require as much training. Plus most of them come in a caliber suitable to kill the predator whether four legged or two with one shot, so not requiring the ‘2 to 3 shots of the average AR” according to my good friend that was in the special forces, and has the taking out 43 enemys, however Just like any gun, a good modern made lever action especially the Japanese made will definitely last, with little bit of a lot of the cowboy action people are putting 40,000 rounds a year through their’s and a lot of them are using black powder. I have shot my New production 1886 in 50-110 with hot loads producing up to 6000 foot pounds thousands of rounds through it and haven’t had to replace any mechanical parts not even a screw. It is true some lever actions are more delicate than others, But I think that those people are talking about using it for survival gun, is because you could make your own gun powder meaning black powder and primers and it would still operate as a fast firing defense weapon, Some of the people I’ve talk to like them because they like to use black powder and the only guns that shoot black powder cartridge as fast are lever actions. That’s my pitiful two cents. Saying screws and more parts make something less reliable would eliminate jets and automobiles, screws often replace pins because pins keep falling out
Agreed. I knew a gent that owned a fine Italian made semi auto shotgun. Long story short he never cleaned it once in 4 years of use. It started jamming and not firing so he bought another and sold the old to me for $100. I cleaned 4 years of crud from it, oiled it and wallah, it worked great, sold it for $600.
The smile that my Henry .45-70 puts on my face when I cycle through a few rounds is well worth the extra maintenance and care required to keep the gun running well :) yeah it makes a good hunting and hog gun, but other guns can do that too, it's the smile and the feel of it that had me sold :)
As a lever gun competitor, I agree with your points, and as always, well presented. I did find it odd that you recommended ‘round nose full metal jacket’ ammunition in these tube magazine guns. I have done it and gotten away with it, but I have personally witnessed magazine tube explosions and dealt with repairing guns damaged by them. I have also experienced the rounded nose bullets bind as the bullet would wedge between the tube and the rim of the cartridge ahead of it and not feed from the tube. Cheers!
I'm not necessarily recommending round nose ammo, I just know some rifles run better with them. Never heard of them discharging in a mag tube, but I'm not really surprised.
My henry big boy .357 mag chokes on 38 SPL. especially aluminum cased. Which the Henry manual says to avoid anyway. it usually tries to do a double feed on me, and then failure to feed. So it is a picky gun, but I love it so much. Working a lever action is so much fun
Bought a Henry Big Boy (black steel receiver) in 357 last year and picked up a Henry Golden Boy in 45-70 Gov't this month. I grew up with a Marlin 1894c in 44 Mag and it was my default deer gun for 40 years. I handed it down to my oldest son several years ago and picked up a 30-06 bolt. My dad has a huge lever collection that date over the last 70 years (he is in his mid 80s) and include Savage, Winchester and Marlin. If you maintain them like you do all other guns they should last a lifetime. And I didn't buy my guns for survivalist purposes; I bought them to hunt.
Winchester lever guns have seen A LOT of combat over the last 140 years. Never heard or read any complaints about those that carried them into battle. Quite the contrary actually. I have heard and read alot of praise about them from such.
Not all leveractions are built the same and not all of them have alot of parts involved. Most of them do but not all. While it may not be a "combat" rifle. It is a great home defense rifle or great option for putting dinner on the table.
I jammed my little Winchester Wrangler .44mag when I was 19. Toppled a cartridge under the carrier. A loooong time ago. I had no clue about how to take it apart, so it went to the gunsmith. When he handed it back, he said "work this gun like you're tryin' to tear it up."
I have to agree. I myself witness people every day handling firearms 'gingerly' and much more slowly than they are meant to be and seems that the more people do this, the less the firearms work as designed. The things are built to handle extreme pressures and speed of the mechanisms.
I had to take automatic part that was jam so bad that it couldn’t even be taken apart, because it had a live cartridge stuck in the barrel, what is required a lot of work to get the action to open so that we can get the cartridge out, The people hadn’t been able to shoot it for years with that cartridge stuck in there
@@Jazzman-bj9fq my grandfather does that a lot , first time he shot an ar he rode the bolt back and it didn’t go into battery
@@blakedavis2447 I will say that when I handle a firearm that is unloaded, I will ride the action forward as there are those that say the actions aren't meant to 'slam' forward on empty chambers. However, when using live ammo or dummy rounds, I let it fly full speed as that is required to reliably strip the round from the magazine. Yup, just tell your grandpa to smack the weapon around, lol
@@Jazzman-bj9fq I told him what to do then my uncle said the same thing and he was like “oh so that’s how it works”
Btw it was at the rage with live rounds
I'm a Cowboy Acton shooter using a Rossi 92 44 rifle shooting 2k rounds a year . With Zero failures in over 10 years with the same rifle . And Zero parts replace after the initial setup 10 years ago .
I know many people shoot AR15's more then that a year . But I have to say . That's pretty dang reliable if you ask me
But yours isn't an AR so lucky gunner can't sell you the lego parts to make it "your gun"
You are selling yourself short. It takes skill to run a lever very well. Plus the setup is very important and almost a lost skill, again that’s user operation.
I dont think they're saying its unreliable, they are just saying that its more robust than a semi auto due to simplicity is a misconception. The innards are actually more complex than an AR from a user end point of takedown and maintenance, which I agree with. Levers are plenty reliable, but are they more reliable than a semi auto like an AR because of their perceived simplicity? No they are not.
I've got a Rossi in .357 mag. Love it. He's got a point about taking it apart tho.. it's a real chore
The guy in this video lacks any real world experience with lever action rifles, and there fore his opinion is about worthless. I have carried Winchester lever guns for many decades and never had any problems with them. ... im glad to hear about your rossi 44 mag. I just got one a couple months ago, and i am impressed with mine. I have not had any problems with the couple hundred rounds i put thru it. I think the rossi quality is pretty darn good.
Lever actions vs modern semi autos, is rather like comparing a good mechanical watch to a gshock quartz watch.. sure mechanical watches have been around for a long time and have even been to the moon and back, but they require a different level of care and maintenance more suited to a slower paced world
Absolutely this. You are pretty spoiled for choice with modern day semi-autos. Leverguns biggest strength is their versatility. But modern day semi-autos with modern day ammo are just as reliable. Everything you can do with a levergun, I can do with a modern day AR style rifle.
*The question is: which one fits your circumstances the most? The world of firearms is infinitely subjective.*
I got a bro living in a log cabin in the middle of a forest running a 30/30 for home defense (where 9 times out of 10 an intruder on his property is an animal but a person isn't uncommon). I also have a bro living in downtown Austin Texas running a 5.56 AR for home defense because he lives in an apartment (where a 55gr high velocity bullet will minimize risk of collateral damage while maximizing effectiveness against attackers + the 30rd mag since multiple attackers are the norm for home invasions). Both of these are the best possible guns to run ...for each of their separate circumstances.
@@bebop_557 "Everything you can do with a lever gun I can do with a modern day AR rifle".
How about "topping off", (adding more rounds to keep the magazine full)?. You can't do that with an AR.
With an AR you either toss the mag away, (with unused rounds in it), or risk having to change magazines at an in-opportunistic time.
@@richardhinman3183 You can set up to load through the ejection port if you really want to. A tactical reload has all the benefits and more of ""topping off". It's unlikely that someone can get more than 2 rounds in to a lever action in the time someone can switch mags. You can then top off that mag as time allows. Many lever action only load from the end as well.
@@scoo73r only Henry uses a tube load. Marlin Winchester and mossberg all use side gate loading and browning has a detachable box magazine for their lever guns
@@richardhinman3183 You can't do that with an AR. But you can do that with any semi-auto that is set up for stripper clips, and has a bolt hold that can be manually activated. SKS and Vz58 can be arranged in this manner.
I have a Marlin 30 30. I've owned it for 36 years. It's never failed to fire, eject a cartridge, seized up, or stoved a round. It's been in rain, mud, freezing and hot weather, got some rust, been dropped, kicked, and bounced around in the back of my truck. Not once has a screw backed out and it's never had a broken part. It's the best and most reliable rifle I own.
I've worked on a fair number of lever actions as a gunsmith. Only a few needed repair that involved replacing parts. Most of my work was cleaning, refinishing, or touch up bluing. They are not the best SHTF rifle but a do everything hunting gun. I usually like them better than bolt actions.
I love them too, but they are a pain to put back together.
Bought myself a Henry Golden Boy for Christmas... been my dream gun since I was a young boy. Nostalgia at its best.... makes me feel like a cowboy kid shooting my soda/pop cans! Great video by the way, as always you put out great content!
Did the same with a Big Boy in .44. My only regret is that I didn't research the cost of care and feeding for the beast. You'd think that 44 Mag ammo had gold cores and were blessed by the Pope himself.
A man does an entire series on lever action rifles to show how much he enjoys them and because he has the audacity to have an honest conversation about reliability (which is not even close to saying lever actions suck) I see people triggered in the comments. They’re inanimate objects people.
Good job as always.
Quite complaining literally no on is “triggered”
Good job. I've run several thousand rounds through a lever action, repaired many and tuned for competition many and I find your comments to be spot on.
Same with revolvers. There’s a myth that they never go wrong, but improper maintenance can easily lead to issues with the cylinder locking up.
And cylinder timing, which on some designs can be a catastrophic problem.
Yeah, the Internet really hates it whenever I point that out.
Yeah anything can have trouble! Maintenance being the key however in 50 plus years as an active shooter I've never seen a maintained lever action or a revolver lock up so to speak. Anything mechanical can and will fail if not taken care of. People do get struck by lightning and bit by sharks! Take care of your chosen firearm and it will take care of you, and train , train, train . And hey the sky is not falling! So calm down and don't be so damn serious about everything. And try to have fun while at the range or just a day out plinking. P.S. If Biden/Harris win the presidency the sky will fall!! The constitution means little to those libatards!!! Stay safe and God bless 🇺🇸☠️🇺🇸!!!!
Yes, but with revolvers it is (1) very rare, (2) usually user induced error. Lever actions are inherently not as reliable as other operating systems. So, I would not hesitate to use a revolver for self defense, but i would not use a lever action unless had nothing better, even though I love them. Still, there is nothing more beautiful than a straight stock Winchester.
@@mountainhobo - I have to disagree with the "inherently less reliable". I've never had a lever malfunction for me except once when I fed an 1873 44 Specials. Didn't know way back then that "44 WCF" meant "44-40". Looking at the fired cases sent me back to the drawing board for a better understanding of what was going on.
Now, I will agree with you if you are talking about the original Henry's with the split mag tube, or the next gen without a forearm, or the inherent weakness of the '73's linkage, and those kinds of things, but not "inherently less reliable".
Bad ammo can stop the best gun in the world. Take notice of the over all length of your ammo when loading your weapon. A long or short round can jam up or catastrophicly fail. And dont trust other peoples reloads, just don't.
Yep, I started hand loading for my revolvers which is as forgiving as it gets for sloppy procedure. When I started using the ammo in my lever gun and doing semi-auto cartridges it became clear that despite what some people say proper case prep is just as important for handgun cartridges. Just about all issues I had with feed issues was due to inconsistent OAL and damage at the case mouth in which a little bit of deburring on all of my casings eliminated most problems. You don't have to do this for every loading but when you have a bunch of mixed brass you've just bought a couple hours of case trimming can save many, many more hours of frustration down the line.
@@jeffumbach you are so right. I am 60. Been reloading since I was a kid. I have made all the mistakes and learned, there are no shortcuts. The other thing I learned was to take time to learn the mechanical side of lever guns. I took a 1894CB 357mag and slicked it up internally. It runs perfectly. It also runs on carefully crafted handloads.
Amen to that. I friend game me some of his reloads. I had squib load that pushed the bullet half way through the barrel!
Dovetailing into the ammo troubles, some leverguns can be quite troublesome with their weak primary extraction if you get overpressure cartridges (looking at you, PPU). The bolt on a regular bolt action might get a little sticky, but you have a lot of mechanical advantage stuffed into a very small space with that bolt. With my 94, it was an absolute bear to extract troublesome cases.
And thank you for bringing up screws. When I was a broke young college kid first owning a 94, I very much did not have the tools for the job and had to break out the Mosin tool to help with some of those arbitrarily narrow screwheads.
Interesting views. Don't agree with all of them, but you made some good points. Regarding the AR styles, yes, they were battle inspired and problems in the battlefield were gradually corrected. However, the AR styles are gas impingement into the action. In fact, the first field reports were complete and total failures because the Army used the wrong powder. Worked fine with the correct powder, but the wrong powder turned them into paperweights. In a prepper scenario, powder choices may be limited and you might not get what keeps AR's happy.
Semiautomatics fling cases. In the short term, this won't matter a whole lot, but in an extended "emergency" being able to save your fired cases might be VERY important. Personal experience tells me that I will only save 25% of fired cases from a semiautomatic unless I make advance arrangements to catch them all such as on a range during practice. Levers are more forgiving of powder variations and of reloaded ammo, and bolts are much more forgiving.
You are quite correct about the screws. Most times it isn't an issue, but it seems like one or two of every 10 or 15 guns will have at least one screw that insists on working loose. Before loc-tite, we fixed that with a small piece of cardboard coated with rubber cement.
Regarding the Marlin that you mentioned "locking up tight", the Marlins will all refuse to work right if the loading gate screw is loose. Not much else will cause that particular problem in a Marlin.
One thing that I always think about is that a lever action can be fixed with some files and some good metal and a vice to hold the work. A bolt gun requires a lathe to make all the internals, and a semiautomatic does best with premade drop-in parts. Something to think about. Of course, if simplicity is the primary factor, a single shot is always the simplest type of action. Anyway, good points and something to think about.
I was going to say that the least complex and hence most reliable would be a single shot but you beat me to it :) . Also, proper and diligent care, matenance and handling go a very long way to maintaining reliability.
A lever action rifle is the original assault rifle.
Shhhhhhhhh. Quiet
Shhhh or the cnn "gun experts" will hear us
No they were not. The single shot muzzle loader was. That was what was used to obtain our freedom from the British.
@@arrlmember nope. Lever actions were the ar15 of their day. OG assault rifle
Nah that's the gat
Yeah but, lever actions are just so fun to run overall. I know they're more complicated than a bolt action, but man running a lever gun is just so satisfying. I personally would never claim that they are easier to service. Just more fun to shoot. 😎👍😎
Thanks for actually giving an unbiased and wholesome opinion unlike some other folks lol
I have three Marlins, all are easy to shoot, and overall, easier to clean than an AR. Just a few relatively large parts. There are even manufacturers that make thumbscrew type machine screws for the lever pivot, so you don't need a screwdriver to clean the weapon. AR15s, M16s, and M4s are NOT fun to clean after extended usage.
My 87 is a little tricky but basically the receiver just kinda bangs around loose unless it has a shell on it or you're working the action.
Luckily I was able to use a pocket knife for disassembly and reassembly.
It's like a fraction of a second slower than a pump but I don't particularly care, it fits my hands quite well and feels very comfortable and familiar, which is extremely important when selecting a firearm
Chris this is the most well thought out and clearly explained video regarding the ise of lever actions for Defensive purposes specifically. Great job.
Although most of this chit chat is about larger caliber lever guns, I have two Winchester 9422 rimfire lever guns, one .22LR and the other .22WMR, both that have had thousands of rounds thru them and never ever has either of them had a 'glitch' or a jam or feed problem ever ! Even the .22 magnum has never had a mechanical problem. I don't shoot the magnum anymore as ammo is too expensive now. Also, I have a Browning BL22 lever and it too has never had even a little 'glitch', ever ! All these lever guns are silky-smooth in mechanical operation but I do make note that they are all tubular fed and not side loading which indeed is more complicated. AND I take super care of them all !
I'm a gunsmith and they are very reliable, but when you get a problem it's a big one. And they are miserable to fix and put back together. But I still love them and most people won't ever shoot them enough to experience a problem.
To be fair, if we're talking about a post-apocalyptic survival weapon, lever actions do have an incredibly specific advantage in that they're a manual action that can generally work well with black powder. If enough time passes in the post-apocalyptic world, factory made ammunition and reloading components will dry up and people will often need to resort to using homemade black powder in their ammunition, perhaps with the exception of particularly successful settlements that have factory production up and running on a small scale. So, anything with a gas system like an AR or AK will be toast at that point, and any semi-automatic without a gas system would become to fouled to function after only a magazine or two (people have tested semi-automatic pistols with black powder rounds and they can be reliable for a small number of rounds). In this world manual actions like lever actions and pump actions would shine.
So, if you really want a gun for every conceivable prepping scenario, this would be the kind of thing to buy lol
Good point
Primers. End of story.
I'd much rather run my AR until I am out of x thousands of rounds of ammo and then switch to my .54 St. Louis hawken than try to reload boxer primers with whatever fulminate or chlorate compound i come up with. (And yes, I'd much rather make percussion gaps with that stuff then try to do boxer primers)
? The chemicals used to make smokeless powder are common though???
Excellent! I love lever guns and they are very reliable -- until they aren't! then it's a nightmare. But I still love them.
Family has model 43 and 73 we still shot today. They came across the country in the 1800s in a covered wagon. Like you said it just good maintenance keep her working still today.
"Left to rust in the back of the closet". Indicates poor care of the rifle. Any rifle not properly serviced will have issues. Love my lever action rifle. True, bolt action rifles are the most simple mechanically.
Yep, a semi-auto that was "left to rust in the back of a closet" isn't going to fare well either.
@@jeffumbach even an AK
You missed what he actually said. They were "left to rust in the back of the closet" because they were already broken and worn out before being left there.
@@familyman3573 Apparently I misunderstood.
I reject your heresy! In the name of the Trinity, Randolph Scott, the Rifleman, and the Duke, I banish you to heck!
To Keith Graham: If you can consider expanding the Trinity to a Quartet I'll nominate Robert Fuller, who was a maestro with speed-levering 5-In-1 blanks through his studio issued 1892 SRCs in dozens of episodes of his starring series, "Laramie" and "Wagon Train," from the late '50s to mid-'60s, both from Revue/Universal Television, and a little 1966 Universal feature western, "Incident at Phantom Hill," in which we were amazed at his ability to empty a tube magazine quicker than had he been firing semi-auto. . . . Along this theme, in interviews about 1950's theatrical "Winchester '73," star Jimmy Stewart recalled from the confines of his Arizona location motel room at night, furiously practicing an expert's working of a lever action rifle to such a degree and devotion that his hands bled.
For decades and decades we western fans and lever action lovers specifically have and will continue to be amazed and entertained by the dedication to practice resulting in developed skills evident on screens, big and small, of and by Scott, Connors, the Duke, Fuller and Stewart -- making their characters look like they were born with a Winchester in their hands. . . . Oh, a last-minute candidate/addition: "Hombre" from 1967 wherein we see Paul Newman's oft-silent half-breed deftly dispose of his opponents with his 1873 carbine, with button magazine, 44 WCF (.44-40). Like Connors' "The Rifleman" and The Duke, Newman's "Hombre" was equally adept firing from the hip as from the shoulder.
. . . Okay, before I 'wear out my welcome' and speaking of big and small screen, I'll close with a viewing recommendation, Universal TV's 1967 remake (for NBC) of Stewart's "Winchester '73" now with the apostrophe pre 73 absent, i.e., "Winchester 73" is the TV movie's title. Like the original, the studio used an original Winchester, following Universal's cross-USA search for rare 'one-of-a-thousand' and 'one-of-a-hundred' editions. No Italian interpretations allowed/necessary.
Check out big, handsome Tom Tryon (Disney's TV western hero, Texas John Slaughter himself!) in Stewart's role; John Saxon very effective as the cold-blooded, killer brother, essayed by Dan Duryea in the original. Duryea's back here as is John Doucette. Doucette's gravel-voiced bartender wields a side-by-side shotgun behind his portable, blacksmith-created, iron-plated shield atop the bar at his remote way station's dusty, grimy saloon, which affords him one of the more colorful, deadly lines in the picture via his attempts to 'keep the peace:' "You'd make an awful mess on my floor." It's at this 'colorful' location we see John Dehner filling in for John McIntire as the card-sharp/gun-trader to any-and-all including the nearby hostile Indians (i.e., no scruples); and BarBara Luna as the pretty, 'seen-it-all,' fiery Latina saloon girl who deals cards for Dehner while waiting for her way out, ANY way out of this miserable outpost. . . . Duryea's gone from 1950 villain to 1967 nice, playing father to the mismatched brothers, Tryon and Saxon. For western movie and TV aficionados a real treat is to see multiple views of the extensive, oh-so-familiar western streets' set-up at Universal Studios' (then massive) backlot. The TV budget limited location filming to the nearby, familiar-looking, southern California desert -- unlike Arizona's wide, open spaces so beautifully captured -- even in b&w -- in 1950's telling.
. . . . Here on UA-cam you can see "Winchester 73" scenes -- and sometimes the entire movie, apparently depending on how busy the Universal Studios copyright infringement attorneys are. Universal released it on VHS, back in the Dark Ages when that format ruled, but "Winchester 73" is M.I.A. in DVD and Blu-ray, unlike the 1950 theatrical classic, available in both.
@@scvandy3129 Don't forget "SILVERADO", great movie !!
You have to include Steve McQueen and his Mares Leg.
The Duke was a pathetic fraud, who’s masculine image was entirely manufactured.
My 44 mag 1892 has been full of bark, tree needles, and dirt in every crevice in the action and never skipped a beat. Any semi auto without a covered action would not have functioned in the conditions that I put my 1892 through. The problem with the levers is if you need to service the internals, what a nightmare. Thing is, is most people will never have to do that. So that being said I disagree to a certain extent.
I have a Marlin 336W 30-30 lever action rifle. I picked it as it has a side ejection port. I haven't used it lately. When I did take it to a rifle range north west of Steubenville, Ohio. I let my son and daughter shoot it after I did. I fired well without any problems for me, my son, and daughter. My daughter also served in the Army as an ordnance specialist.
Well I'm glad I've never had any problems with my Marlin 336 Texan in .30-30. It was built in 1972 and I bought it in 1984. Yes, I've tightened some screws occasionally and I don't run hundreds of rounds through it each year. I've taken care of it and it has never failed.
Dude, you do the best analysis of your subjects anywhere on the net. Well done.
My first gun was a 10/22. The second was a G19. It is hard to go up from there as far as reliability. But I still love my lever gun. Good video as usual.
Grew up in Southeast Alaska spent some time hunting Sitka blacktail with my grandfathers Winchester model 94 30 30. Brush gun excellent for traversing densely forested areas and steep elevations. I’d recommend not chambering a round until you see something, and keeping the chamber empty afterwards.
I've had my Win94ae since 1983, shot more then 20,000 rounds through it, never jammed once.
The Marlin 1894 has jammed quite a few times the first month I had it.
Great video. I've had this conversation with people and they treat this like blasphemy. I personally love and will continue to love using lever action rifles (they're awesome for left-handed shooters like me) but for those of us who have actually take one apart and put one back together, I'm under no delusion that a lever action is some sort of indestructible tank. They're more delicately assembled than most would believe.
Have Winchesters and Marlins lever actions,never had a problem..these are true New Haven Winchester and New Haven Marlin actions... very nice actions! Great Channel!!!
This video was an eye opener,lever actions are way more complicated than i assumed once again thank you
yeah if you want reliability you better get bolt action
@@ファン百合 Or single shot.
I will say, in some states like NY and a possible bad presidential election result, levers could become defacto go to rifles. So maybe they need to look into evolving and improving the design.
I like lever actions, but I'm not necessarily into the nostalgia for the old cowboy rifles. I think doing some modern evolution on the design would be fantastic!
With regards to your comments about lever-actions being picky about ammunition:
In the manual for my Marlin 1894, it says not to use ammunition loaded with Semi-Wadcutter projectiles. I ignored this warning, because I had a lot of 158 grain LSWC ammo loaded for .357 magnum already. Rounds would fire just fine, but they would often hang trying to feed into the chamber. A little wiggle of the lever would get them to go every time...except the last one. I wound up breaking several parts in the lifter assembly. I was able to repair it, but now all of my 158 grain lead bullet reloads are with RNFPs, which work flawlessly.
To me the number.one appeal of lever actions, besides being lever actions, is they use the same ammo as a sidearm so you only need to take one kind of ammo.
You can do that with so many PCCs now too
Yeah, I love all my .30-30 revolvers
@@borkwoof696 I mean yeah if that's what you want to carry on your hip your more than welcome to.
Lever actions pack quite a bit of power. My brother was proud of these aluminum discs he'd put together for plinking at the range with his AR-15. I took a few shots with my Marlin 1894C in .357 (or it may have been .38) and he was shouting at me to stop punching holes in his targets.
I like lever action firearms but this dude makes some good points. As much as I love my Marlin I'll pick my AR-15 or something else before I pick my Marlin.
Sometimes the truth is disappointing but it is the truth none the less. Very well said! Great video!
When this....situtation....is done in getting a Marlin in 357. Gonna delete that safety as soon as I buy it.
Well, Ruger just purchased Marlin, so, hopefully, they'll get Marlin back to where they used to be.
@@MrIdasam hopefully, but I doubt theyll de-lawyer it.
Then again, Ruger didn't add Hillary holes, so maybe.
This is for educational purposes only. The user assumes all responsibility and liability. There is an alternative to a "safety delete" button. Make sure the gun is empty, remove the stock. You'll notice a little hex screw covered in some sort of paint on the left side of the gun as you look down the barrel where the stock butts up against the receiver. With the gun off safe, adjust the hex screw at your own risk. Tightening this screw may result in not being able to put the gun back on safe. Beware. You are responsible for your actions.
I have a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 and love it. Its super accurate and overall just an amazing gun.
Has anyone ever bought a Ruger firearm? Ruger puts safety crap all over their guns.(indicators, warning labels, safeties, mag releases, etc)
This is why my AR is my first rifle.. and my Savage makes the no. 2 spot. The winchester is batting cleanup. It's good to have a backup plan for your backup plan! The thudy thudy has a backup plan too.
I own every caliber Marlin has chambered in their levers. I started collecting them 50 years ago. I own Winchester as well. I do my own reloading and I have never in my life had a problem with a lever gun. in over A century of manufacturer, this is The testament to their durability, regardless of what anyone thinks!
I've got an heirloom Marlin 336 chambered in 32 win special. Love the rifle, and taught me how to reload, as the ammo used to be impossible to find.
@@netanmaldoran4816 and I'm willing to bet you've never shot a more comfortable rifle in your life. They were the essence of taming the West.
Bill Soinski Stay away from a Remlin 1894 in .44 mag. I’d hate to see you break your streak.
Your videos are so well considered and presented. Even though I haven't shot a gun in many decades (City boy, now), they're great to watch and learn from. Thank You!
In my experience, the toggle link Winchester 1873 is the most reliable lever action rifle. I have used one for cowboy action and I never had a jam with proper ammo. The Marlin 1894 is still quite reliable, but you occasionally get the odd hiccup. The Winchester 1894 is quite unreliable when you try to cock it fast. The cartridge often sticks vertically out of the action when you try to run one fast.
Mine doesn't run into that issue. I'm not fast like Cowboy action shooting or anything lol but I can run it as fast if not faster than my American Ranch.
I've found the same with '92s (in .357 at least). Work them too fast and the round ends up jamming vertical.
@@ApurtureSci huh. Mines a 30-30. Not terribly old but it is a side eject.
@@ApurtureSci With 92's in .357 a lot of the jams I've seen are ammo related. Wide JHP's like Gold Dots will not feed properly and some flat nose loads that are rather square had the same problems. But that's been my exerpience.
@Joseph Abbott Even the best of pump actions is susceptible to short stroking the pump which will cause problems. Depending on the receiver(steel vs aluminum) that can cause extraction issues if it gets hot.
That said, a 12 gauge pumo with a 3 1/2 inch chamber is my preferred choice for a "Survival" gun.
Great overview and thoughts. Thanks!
Man I haven't even finished the video and just by scrolling through the comments, I can tell it's going to be a good one.
Thanks for the info. Some I knew, some I hadn't considered, but good to have in the brain pan. One serious advantage of the lever gun was overlooked. It is the most practical saddle gun. Because of its narrow, flat profile, it is the best choice for quick access when mounted, as well as comfort for horse and rider.
"But when it's finally time to emerge from your nuclear fallout shelter and help rebuild society you're probably gonna want an AR-15"
You ever try to kill a deathclaw with a NCR service rifle?
I prefer the Garand for that.
@@LuckyGunner FAL for the win
@@LuckyGunner Or the C finder
@@LuckyGunner to your credit, the All-American with AP ammo isn't to bad at dealing with them.
@@colbunkmust The survivalist’s rifle works pretty well from personal experience. She’s finicky, but she’ll drop ‘em.
Well presented and thought out points, every one. Compromises abound any time you try to find the "one fits all" concept, and there are just others that come closer than the lever action. But they are nostalgic, and fun as all get out.
Totally agree. I've seem lever actions complete lockup on ammo types that they don't like.
Yep. When cartridge companies brag about "advanced" features such as slightly chamfering the mouth of the brass to increase reliability, it tells you something. (Federal is using that for their line which seems to be aimed at taking market share from hornady leverevolution)
I’ve seen people beating a AR on the ground trying to get the cartridge to come out too, lol
@@Leverguns50 Yes, and the gun took it. I have too. I've done it as well with way out of spec ammo. Having fixed broken examples of both, the AR is a much simpler more robust design. There are fewer ways it can fail, and they are easier to address in the field or in the shop.
Only if you have a shit lever. I absolutely love my AR's, but... my levers are far more powerful and reliable long term. (lets face it, few AR's can match a good 30-30 or the 45-70 or 45-100)
@@obiesunstreak2409 Not true. the ar-15 can be chambered for large bore cartridges such as the .458 socom, .450 bushmaster, or .50 Beowulf. And an ar-10 in .308 is much more powerful than a .30-30. Many would disagree with you on long term reliability as well.
Thank you for this video. I've always wanted a lever action (in .357/.38) but now I'm reconsidering.
By the way, newly subscribed.
I grew up with lever actions and bolts. They are reliable as can be. I’ve never had jambs like semis. I’ve seen brand new semis fail to feed or eject from the start. Never had that problem with a lever. I have noticed that now days many of the AR guys I know don’t believe in cleaning their guns until they get gummed up. I’ve never had any screws come loose either. Remember it is a design that has lasted for over 100yrs. A lot of men over the years bet their lives on them and came out alive. I did have a hunter education student short stroke my rifle once and get a snap cap stuck. Never have been able to figure out how he did it. I trust my levers an bolts, singles and doubles.
Chris always makes good, well researched critiques. I listen to him and respect him. But my (vastly more limited) experience has been perfect reliability in a 60+ year old Marlin 336 in 30-30 (I also have a Winchester 94 but the Marlin is better in every way). Regular cleaning and care has never been an issue, I take good care of it. I've been shooting it for 35 years myself. It was my dad's new.
Every time I'm out at the range, ARs are jammed up. I've fixed more ARs than anything else. I did so yesterday. Their default function is jamming. Now I've never owned one myself, but I don't even want to. Maybe with the same care I give my guns, it'd be okay. I will relent that an AR in Remmington .223 is more accurate, especially at distance. I experienced that when sighting them in. I also reload for them, even though I don't own one.
I have routinely embarrassed AR owners with my lever action 30-30 and iron peep sights. In terms of reliability and accuracy, I always come out on top so to speak. I actually wish that wasn't the case. If I could only have one gun, it would be the Marlin 336 in 30-30. The second choice isn't even close. I hope the new ones they are making now are every bit as wonderful as my old one. I haven't verified that.
Your closing statement was excellent. Thanks Chris.
I am imagining someone on youtube attempting a 5000 round torture test of a lever action rifle. That would be something to see.
Marlin 1894 : needs a flat head screw driver as disassembly tool. To deep clean only 3 need to be removed. I shoot mine for the last 20 plus years with 1000 plus rounds ,,no misfire. It goes out to 200 yds and my gunsmith tool is a leatherman. Switching between 44 special and 225 grain FTX also allows for wide range of application, never had an issue, actual mixed it up on purpose to check reliability 👍🏾. I do own AR10/15 platforms and enjoy shooting them , but my to go gun is the 1894
I gotta say, I'm loving the Lever Action Series
You are a great teacher. I have found so many of your videos super informative. Thank you
thanks
I think people get biased based on what they have. Good video and thanks for the advice.
The answer is dependent on the user. A well taken care of, sound rifle with a user competent in its use can be very very reliable. I hunt with a Winchester model 97 that was my great grandfathers. He bought it in 1902. It depends on the user.
This was educational and I agree with what you said on how a lever action ain’t meant to be in dirt/mud and really the AR or any modern rifle has some flaws.
Any gun has its flaws and does end up messing up.
More lever gun videos! I'd love to see one dedicated to the .30-30 modernized for defense!
All of what you say has merit and I appreciate you bringing this information to us. Depending on needed use and your home state laws an AR may not be an option for you. In my state an AR is not just a long gun, but an assault rifle which requires a higher level firearms license to purchase. Some may not qualify for this license so they need to choose something else. Another possible need is if you travel by car from state to state and want some form of protection a long gun can be a legal choice if locked in your trunk. This is not the best choice, but sometimes the only option. If your traveling and camping, once you get to where your going you can unlock the firearm and make it more readily available if needed.
BTW love your videos, you do a great job bringing detailed excellent information to all who watch your channel.
I think this depends, I shoot cowboy action and I do modify my rifles for reliability, for the most part that means removing most of the built in safety's that have been added over the years. Second purple locktight is your friend, purple not red. If the right lever actions are set up the right way they can be extremely dependable, but they are so far from "idiot proof".
I have had a 30-30 Marlin for 35 years, I can hit a soda can at 100 yards with five shots in 10 seconds(maybe less never timed, but max 10 seconds). Deer stand no chance and except for one dud round ( not the rifles fault) it has been flawless. It is well maintained and was rebuilt just before I received it for my 16th birthday. Open sights, it is one of the best rifles I have ever handled. I do not think they are as delicate as described here, but do need to be maintained.
Lucky Gunner. Forgotten Weapons. Inrange.
The triumvirate of shootybangy.
The Father, the Son, and the Holey Spirit
Dont forget Hickock
@@natemichael9655 Hickock is our Moses.
You misspelled paul harrell,ernest langdon and massad ayoob
@@andrewc9896 the Apostles
Another great video, I am looking forward to the whole series. Thanks.
clap, clap, clap. That was a precise presentation. You are in Paul Harrell territory. I sat with interest for 15 minutes on a video without rangefire.
Great balanced & objective overview as always! I agree with everything you've said, however, I live in South Africa where things are crazy right now, and my preferred backup rifle at night is my 357 lever action. It's short and powerful enough for home defense, yet it won't blind me or blow my eardrums should I need to use it indoors at night. Thank you as always for sharing your well balanced opinions with us, and greetings from SA!
Love lever guns. Not as rugged but they can rapid fire keeping your eye on target and the gun grabbers don’t seem to be afraid of them. They are reliable
You are very consistent in the great quality of your content. Please continue!
Lever Gun is probably the most reliable firearm I’ve ever owned. I don’t think I’ve ever had any kind of failure with my model 94 30-30.
Great, unbiased video on lever action reliability. Logic and experience is king!
"Everybody's got a set of Torx bits" -- No one in their right mind
I have bits AND drivers with handles. I can even take apart a hard drive. Torx are not exotic or hard to find anymore.
i built my entire computer with torx screws because i can never find a decent or right size phillups. always got a torx set tho.
I'm loving this series! I just bought a Henry Big Boy All Weather in .357.
Thank you for making this video. I learned a lot.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
whether he/she is receiving SSB, has received SSB in the past or whether or not there are any pending claims for SSB, including applications for benefits and appeals of benefit for denials.
Really went hard on knocking down Marlin's. I've had a total of 3 Marlins. A 30As, a 336CS both 30-30 and 1895SS in 45-70. Never had any problems with any over a 40 year period. The marlin action is nothing like the Winchester that spills it's guts every time the action is cycled. I'm keeping my rugged and reliable Marlins. Good videos, always enjoy watching.👍
The new Marlins have quality control issue though, as do a lot of guns from well-known old brands nowadays. I have a new production Winchester 1892 in .357 Mag made by Miroku in Japan that seems to work well enough after 500 rounds.
No issues at all with the reasoning in this video, just like I have no issues at all with owning both my .357 1894CS Marlin and 10.5" AR Pistol build!
However, if the BATF actually starts tea bagging law-abiding citizens for having pistol braces, I wouldn't feel the least bit under-prepared with my Marlin or 181 series Mini-14.
My first choice for a gun fight would be to not find myself in one, second would be with an AR or AK, but third would be my 45-70 lever gun. My safe is set up just that way in fact. One of the biggest positives to come from leverguns for me is it got me started reloading. When I think about leverguns, I think of the beautiful stock and the wonderful time I've spent at the reloading bench...oh there is that nostalgia you were talking about.
That bit about projectile shape is too real. I took me two whole months to discover my .357 1873 absolutely must be fed flat nose projectiles and nothing else. Found a mention of it on a cowboy action gunsmith's page about broken bolt tabs and not gonna lie, I felt pretty dang foolish.
- everything you say is spot on my friend, it also applies to pretty much anything mechanical. I find reliability is proportionally equal to the operator’s level of mechanical empathy.
Iv never had a lever gun apart until I had to help a friend put his back together and boy was I surprised how many parts are on the inside of these things
When I bought my Winchester 1892, I ask the gun store clerk how I was suppose to take it apart. He told me "You don't". 😐
Clicked on this just because the last lever-action rifle I fired had the word "Daisy" on it. Interesting to see the pros and cons. Nice work, Lucky Gunner!
Loving all the New Vegas references. I am playing through it now. Just got to the boomers at the air force base.
Ah, you're to the point where the game really takes off and you have more sidequests at one time than you imagined possible.
Thank you very much, this lever rifle was in my list and you open my eyes.
I see a lot of your points, it really sounds like you’ve been shooting a lot of Henry repeating arms lever actions. but if you used a AR in the same way that the average person use their lever action it wouldn’t work, first of all try shooting black powder out of your AR for 30 years, some people have never even cleaned their gun in 40 years because they’re shooting “smokeless powder it doesn’t need to be cleaned”, they just keep putting more oil on it, and yet when they needed it still functions, and they’ve been stored in the corner of the closet in a house that is not climate controlled, It is true that you can’t shoot the old ones thousands and thousands of times without wearing the barrel out, A lot of them were made out of mild steel not made for use with jacketed bullets or smokeless powder, but the nice thing about the lever action is it doesn’t take very many time shooting it to become very efficient with it, so it doesn’t require as much training. Plus most of them come in a caliber suitable to kill the predator whether four legged or two with one shot, so not requiring the ‘2 to 3 shots of the average AR” according to my good friend that was in the special forces, and has the taking out 43 enemys, however
Just like any gun, a good modern made lever action especially the Japanese made will definitely last, with little bit of a lot of the cowboy action people are putting 40,000 rounds a year through their’s and a lot of them are using black powder. I have shot my New production 1886 in 50-110 with hot loads producing up to 6000 foot pounds thousands of rounds through it and haven’t had to replace any mechanical parts not even a screw. It is true some lever actions are more delicate than others, But I think that those people are talking about using it for survival gun, is because you could make your own gun powder meaning black powder and primers and it would still operate as a fast firing defense weapon, Some of the people I’ve talk to like them because they like to use black powder and the only guns that shoot black powder cartridge as fast are lever actions. That’s my pitiful two cents. Saying screws and more parts make something less reliable would eliminate jets and automobiles, screws often replace pins because pins keep falling out
Agreed. I knew a gent that owned a fine Italian made semi auto shotgun. Long story short he never cleaned it once in 4 years of use. It started jamming and not firing so he bought another and sold the old to me for $100. I cleaned 4 years of crud from it, oiled it and wallah, it worked great, sold it for $600.
@@montanamountainmen6104 neat story but how’s that relate to to lever guns ?
@@blakedavis2447 Every firearm if not maintained no matter the maker is prone to fail.
@@montanamountainmen6104 all right then
I watch your videos and respect experience and knowledge of lever guns
The smile that my Henry .45-70 puts on my face when I cycle through a few rounds is well worth the extra maintenance and care required to keep the gun running well :) yeah it makes a good hunting and hog gun, but other guns can do that too, it's the smile and the feel of it that had me sold :)
The lever action rifle has been reliable for over 150 years or more, from since the original Henry.
You do have to clean and maintain them.
As a lever gun competitor, I agree with your points, and as always, well presented.
I did find it odd that you recommended ‘round nose full metal jacket’ ammunition in these tube magazine guns. I have done it and gotten away with it, but I have personally witnessed magazine tube explosions and dealt with repairing guns damaged by them. I have also experienced the rounded nose bullets bind as the bullet would wedge between the tube and the rim of the cartridge ahead of it and not feed from the tube.
Cheers!
I'm not necessarily recommending round nose ammo, I just know some rifles run better with them. Never heard of them discharging in a mag tube, but I'm not really surprised.
Yes
Edit: Well now I watched the video...
My henry big boy .357 mag chokes on 38 SPL. especially aluminum cased. Which the Henry manual says to avoid anyway. it usually tries to do a double feed on me, and then failure to feed. So it is a picky gun, but I love it so much. Working a lever action is so much fun
I want a henry x big boy, so bad i dream of it.
They are nice 👍
Just special ordered the . 357
@@paulbaerwald8055 From where? If you don't mind my asking. Everywhere i look is 100% out of stock.
Bought a Henry Big Boy (black steel receiver) in 357 last year and picked up a Henry Golden Boy in 45-70 Gov't this month. I grew up with a Marlin 1894c in 44 Mag and it was my default deer gun for 40 years. I handed it down to my oldest son several years ago and picked up a 30-06 bolt. My dad has a huge lever collection that date over the last 70 years (he is in his mid 80s) and include Savage, Winchester and Marlin. If you maintain them like you do all other guns they should last a lifetime. And I didn't buy my guns for survivalist purposes; I bought them to hunt.
The Big Boy X looks nice. Me personally I’m into the Big Boy Classic.
I’ve got an old marlin from the 70’s stuck open . I was cleaning it , have not fired it in years . Now I have to get it repaired .
Depends on the user.
This is an amazing video. Everything you say makes sense. Always look at the cons of anything you want to buy!
There's always the third option: Mosin.
Fourth option black powder rifle
Very unvarnished truth But the Beauty of these Rifles is What I admire....Not taking one to War is Reasonable..
Winchester lever guns have seen A LOT of combat over the last 140 years. Never heard or read any complaints about those that carried them into battle. Quite the contrary actually. I have heard and read alot of praise about them from such.
Not all leveractions are built the same and not all of them have alot of parts involved. Most of them do but not all. While it may not be a "combat" rifle. It is a great home defense rifle or great option for putting dinner on the table.
Hello Chris! Thank you for the videos.
I've shot my marlin 30-30 has never misfired for or jammed in 52 years. Bolts are good too.
Time is not nearly as good of a point of reference as shots fired
@@borkwoof696 yeah he could have shot 5 rounds in 52 years
@@patsyl8935 exactly
@@borkwoof696 how about hundreds?
@@jkoeberlein1 is that supposed to be impressive? Several hundreds of shots fired doesn’t really mean a lot.
Thanks this was worth the watch. 👍👍👍