Thank you for the review! Your comments were well thought out and you touched on a lot of things. Some very fair critiques..I'd like to see more crawlers doing more than just explore and kill all enemies..puzzles, challenges, etc..
A big box, a lot of minis, decent play mechanics, not as complicated as Sword’n Sorcery, cheap. Nothing special as long as “special” is something depending of one’s taste.
I’m not sure how much this will be at retail, but the KS base pledge was really a reasonable amount. Everything else you summed up I totally agree with.
I'm really looking forward to this game but hearing how big the board is has really put a damper on it for me. I usually play on a 75cm deep table in my office and although on the smaller size has handled games like Zombicide, Nemesis, Tainted Grail and AltarQuest easily with a bit of organisation. But a board that size is gonna overhand by a fair bit which is gonna be a pain.
Thanks again for showing of the game and for your input! I am still so darn excited to play! Not gonna lie would love another gameplay video the last one was awesome! Even if it was a fables episode to avoid some spoilers. Also be sure to let us know how your thoughts change as you get more and more into it! I know you said it’s a little bit of a grind, would you say like a heroquest type grind ? And have you had a lot of different types of enemies so far ? Thanks again for all the info so far. From an excited gamer who is trying my best to wait…… haha.
May I asked: what took you to Thailand? And thanks for the Information regarding the minis quality. My 3- and 5-year old sons will make a quick check, as my game arrives in germany. 😂
@@watchman4884 I'm actually in Taiwan, not Thailand. I initially came here to teach English many years ago. I'm settled here permanently now! They are some solid minis, toddler tested and approved!
Nice review however I would disagree on the quality of detail on the models. I've been painting them and the detail is actually excellent when you start picking them out. They all have fingers {not just mittens} and the facial expressions are nice. They're a joy to paint.
You say the game is just going from room to room fighting things with no variety , this is exactly what Gloomhaven is, which is quite a popular game. How does this compare to GH or Folklore that you mentioned? You seemed to have mostly negativity towards this but implied you had been playing alot, is there anything good apart from the door mechanics?
Hi John. Ultimately, the bread and butter of dungeon crawlers are moving from one space to another killing monsters, dodging traps etc, something that I typically enjoy. However, for a long campaign style game, I feel like the game needs to do more than just giving you monsters in each room to kill for it to stay interesting over many play sessions. Bardsung attempts this with the different challenges the asset cards it gives each room. However, few of them really change up the game significantly (as of yet), and the interesting narrative ones are few and far between, which means you're mostly just moving from room to room killing monsters in the same way as you did the previous two or three encounters. As to your comment about Gloomhaven, I actually has more interesting per player decisions, as well as per group decisions. And, because each of the scenarios have varied win conditions, you do need to decide who stays where to deal with what threat and who should go tackle the scenario objective. Also, each player has to carefully decide how to use their cards abilities, and also how to set up their decks to best suit each scenario. GH is not a game I'd play solo though, I think it works best with a group (which is how we play it). Folklore is more of an overland adventure RPG style game, heavily focused on narrative and less about dungeon crawling. It's combat is also less interesting than BS. Folklore is also a much tougher game, even at the start, and playing solo is equal to controlling 3 or 4 full RPG characters' worth of book keeping.
Thank you again for the overview. Looking forward to trying it out. We shall see how it goes, but I have a hard time with predictable grinding. If it does not pick up, will probably end up selling. I actually ended up selling Chronicles of Drungor due to sub par story and repetitive play.
Thank you for your videos as the rest of us wait. I am not really interested in a 1 to 10 score, but I do see a fair number of dungeon crawlers behind you. How does it stack up in the genre? As a solo game, once the newness wears off, would you rather play Descent RtL for example? What crawlers do you hold just above, below, or on par with Bardsung at this point? Do you see it earning its shelf footprint in a few years?
For me personally to stay on the shelf long term it’ll depend on if the community gets behind it. I think other than being a game with a half-decent campaign in itself, I think it’s a good toolbox for dungeon crawling in general. If the community fully gets behind this game it could potentially spawn some awesome content. As purely a solo game, it’s pretty good. But I think it’ll be just as good with 2 more players. Right now I’m not sure where to rate it compared to others, it’s a little too soon for me to definitively know. I like it more than Massive Darkness, less than Imperial Assault/Descent and Death May Die, possibly the same as the D&D adventure system games (which I think it’s the closest to).
Hi. Great videos and looking forward to getting my all in pledge. I notice your card holder and wonder what it is and where to get one from? I have been looking for one for some time. Thanks.
It's hard to explain without an image to reference, but outer most white line seems to be the agreed boundary (as apposed to the edge of the leather graphic or the inner broken line).
Ive found a few errors with the names of abilities, found it difficult at times to decipher the icons and combat. I havent played the campaign yet, i felt like it took too long to just work out the combat and the rulebook does a poor job of saying what tokens you need for combat. I feel like sfg need to send out an updated rulebook, otherwise it will be difficult to play. I can fudge rules when playing alone but taking this to the games club and saying oh the rules are messy so here is what we will do is pretty bad, especially for such a big game by such a great games maker.
Yes, the rules in the box and some wording and icons on cards should have had a bit more time spent on it, especially in proof reading. There are also some typos in the adventure books too. A real shame. Do check out the released errata though, you can print out and sleeve the printouts with the cards from the game if you’ve sleeved them.
Me and my friend tried it at the weekend and had similar issues, it was really frustrating at times as it took us a while to figure everything out, I do like that it gives you a tutorial but I agree that we really need an updated rulebook that has everything together in more detail
@@tacticaltaleshobby As a one-time proofer and editor myself, I find the lack of attention give to proofing text a very aggravating aspect of modern game and rule-book publishing. It is especially unforgivable with games as complicated - and expensive - as this one.
Thank you for your honest thoughts, appreciate it, however, it is so much negative aspects in your thoughts.. How would you rank the game so far from 1-10 scale ? Would you back it now, with knowledge and experience you have now or would you easily skip it ? How you think it plays with 2 players , when each player uses their own character ?
Again, I don't want to put out a final review and score until I've played it more, seen more of the enemies and got more of the story. There's so much content I haven't experienced yet that it would be unfair to rate it at the moment. I suspect this might be quite fun with 2 and 3 players (while at 2 it might be a little harder due to the enemy number scaling for 3 characters). Downtime between actions isn't that much as actions are quick, and having another player to experience this with could add a lot to the overall enjoyment.
I was playing today and been having a lot of fun with it. I have been running two characters while wife plays another two the early game is easy but fun. I think the fables additional heroes box has been worthwhile also
Alone Against Darkness does a lot for very little cost. Gloomhaven JotL is my favorite campaign-based RPG-like. Cthulhu Death May Die is just all around fantastic, and my favorite one-shot crawler. Just received Machina Arcana which is supposed to be excellent too!
Sadly can’t compare it but from my knowledge of WHQ95 this is a much “safer” and casual experience. You’re not going to get swamped and killed in the 2nd or 3rd room.
Hi Nick. Bardsung is quite a bit simpler to learn and play, also managing 3 characters solo in Bardsung is also a lot more manageable. Bardsung has 30 something chapters vs just a handful in S&S Immortal Souls. You’re getting a lot more hours out of it! You’re also getting a lot more, and quite a bit better looking minis. Having said that I think S&S is a much better game. Combat feels a lot tighter and crunchier (which some might not like) in S&S and the enemy AI is a lot more varied and harder to predict. Also, because of the predetermined map layout and objectives, each scenario feels a lot more unique, requiring different strategies each time. Bardsung feels quite Sammy after a while IMO. S&S is closer to something like Gloomhaven, and Bardsung closer to the D&D adventure system games.
Okay, sounds like what I anticipated when I decided to skip this: A quite good looking dungeon crawler with an amazing price point for the core pledge but ultimately pretty average and servicable, not bad but also nothing that sticks out, maybe aside from the story deck that "saves" your decisions, which I hope to see iterated on in other games. Thanks for sharing your honest impressions, helped me to confirm that there is no need for FOMO here, despite the big box that lures you in :D
It's a fun game, and has some cool and unique mechanics. But (as of now) I wouldn't call it a sure-fire hit for everyone. There are definitely people who are going to love this though!
Hi. Watched this video again after receiving my copy and playing the first two encounters. I agree with everything you said. The rule book is massively inconsistent veering from pretty good (icons at back) to lousy (clearly explaining key rules like Echo token placement, what is the difference between threshold and boundary, amount of figures in a zone, etc.) I want to like this more but so far it’s underwhelming. Like you I also have Folklore which is a pain to set up and play solo but the writing and theme / characters make me really forgiving to that game’s weak points. (Also it’s a labour of love from a single creator not from a private equity backed large publisher). I feel this game hasn’t been tested at all with the final version and rules set, it’s not on to have to go to a facebook group to iron out all of the questions when this had a large kickstarter fund. They needed a professional rule book writer to write the manual and as you put it some more “time in the oven” Ultimately I feel this is a large box of miniatures with half a game system bolted on but will try it with my group before I sell it.
Can't argue against anything you said here. I feel like there's a really good game in here that'll need a bit of work. I'm sort of holding onto this with the hopes the community will rally behind it and release some good variants and modes for it (I'm currently working on one myself on and off). I feel sad that I sorta grew tired of it before I got to fight some more enemies and bosses. I'll probably give it a rest for a while and get it to the table again in a month or so to continue the campaign. If it doesn't get better by then then I'll probably try and move it.
@@baysidejr Honestly, with the games you have (excellent selection btw) I really don't think Bardsung is doing anything radically different, or different enough to warrant retail price!
I have this game backed and I'm really excited. As far as comparing this to other SFG, what do you think. I'm usually unimpressed by their games but this one looked more put together. Maybe its because it's their own IP.
The game is designed so that the deeper you delve.. the aspect of the dungeon changes too...bringing more varied and complex trials and tribulations....the actual regions take on a living persona...reflecting those who dwell there and reacting differently to intruders. You will not be disappointed
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Great overview. I'll have to check if you have a final thoughts/review.
get a mic pls
Thank you for the review! Your comments were well thought out and you touched on a lot of things. Some very fair critiques..I'd like to see more crawlers doing more than just explore and kill all enemies..puzzles, challenges, etc..
A big box, a lot of minis, decent play mechanics, not as complicated as Sword’n Sorcery, cheap. Nothing special as long as “special” is something depending of one’s taste.
I’m not sure how much this will be at retail, but the KS base pledge was really a reasonable amount. Everything else you summed up I totally agree with.
Sounds pretty so far, looking forward to getting it soon!
Great job !! Highly recommended everyone watch this and subscribe. Can’t wait to try the game.
Thanks Johnny! Appreciate the kinds words. You're in for a good time for sure!
I'm really looking forward to this game but hearing how big the board is has really put a damper on it for me. I usually play on a 75cm deep table in my office and although on the smaller size has handled games like Zombicide, Nemesis, Tainted Grail and AltarQuest easily with a bit of organisation. But a board that size is gonna overhand by a fair bit which is gonna be a pain.
Thanks again for showing of the game and for your input! I am still so darn excited to play! Not gonna lie would love another gameplay video the last one was awesome! Even if it was a fables episode to avoid some spoilers. Also be sure to let us know how your thoughts change as you get more and more into it! I know you said it’s a little bit of a grind, would you say like a heroquest type grind ? And have you had a lot of different types of enemies so far ? Thanks again for all the info so far. From an excited gamer who is trying my best to wait…… haha.
Haha, I'll see what I can do!
Thanks for your thoughts. You do a really professionell job. Good work!
Much appreciated!
May I asked: what took you to Thailand?
And thanks for the Information regarding the minis quality. My 3- and 5-year old sons will make a quick check, as my game arrives in germany. 😂
@@watchman4884 I'm actually in Taiwan, not Thailand. I initially came here to teach English many years ago. I'm settled here permanently now!
They are some solid minis, toddler tested and approved!
@@tacticaltaleshobby i wish i had an english teacher like you 20 years ago 🤪 perhaps you should make a „how to Play bardsung“-Video…
Nice review however I would disagree on the quality of detail on the models. I've been painting them and the detail is actually excellent when you start picking them out. They all have fingers {not just mittens} and the facial expressions are nice. They're a joy to paint.
I’ve seen some of the models painted and they do look quite lovely!
You say the game is just going from room to room fighting things with no variety , this is exactly what Gloomhaven is, which is quite a popular game. How does this compare to GH or Folklore that you mentioned? You seemed to have mostly negativity towards this but implied you had been playing alot, is there anything good apart from the door mechanics?
Hi John. Ultimately, the bread and butter of dungeon crawlers are moving from one space to another killing monsters, dodging traps etc, something that I typically enjoy. However, for a long campaign style game, I feel like the game needs to do more than just giving you monsters in each room to kill for it to stay interesting over many play sessions. Bardsung attempts this with the different challenges the asset cards it gives each room. However, few of them really change up the game significantly (as of yet), and the interesting narrative ones are few and far between, which means you're mostly just moving from room to room killing monsters in the same way as you did the previous two or three encounters.
As to your comment about Gloomhaven, I actually has more interesting per player decisions, as well as per group decisions. And, because each of the scenarios have varied win conditions, you do need to decide who stays where to deal with what threat and who should go tackle the scenario objective. Also, each player has to carefully decide how to use their cards abilities, and also how to set up their decks to best suit each scenario. GH is not a game I'd play solo though, I think it works best with a group (which is how we play it).
Folklore is more of an overland adventure RPG style game, heavily focused on narrative and less about dungeon crawling. It's combat is also less interesting than BS. Folklore is also a much tougher game, even at the start, and playing solo is equal to controlling 3 or 4 full RPG characters' worth of book keeping.
Thank you again for the overview. Looking forward to trying it out. We shall see how it goes, but I have a hard time with predictable grinding. If it does not pick up, will probably end up selling. I actually ended up selling Chronicles of Drungor due to sub par story and repetitive play.
I'll report back after some more plays. Hoping it picks up soon!
Thank you for your videos as the rest of us wait. I am not really interested in a 1 to 10 score, but I do see a fair number of dungeon crawlers behind you. How does it stack up in the genre? As a solo game, once the newness wears off, would you rather play Descent RtL for example? What crawlers do you hold just above, below, or on par with Bardsung at this point? Do you see it earning its shelf footprint in a few years?
For me personally to stay on the shelf long term it’ll depend on if the community gets behind it. I think other than being a game with a half-decent campaign in itself, I think it’s a good toolbox for dungeon crawling in general. If the community fully gets behind this game it could potentially spawn some awesome content.
As purely a solo game, it’s pretty good. But I think it’ll be just as good with 2 more players.
Right now I’m not sure where to rate it compared to others, it’s a little too soon for me to definitively know. I like it more than Massive Darkness, less than Imperial Assault/Descent and Death May Die, possibly the same as the D&D adventure system games (which I think it’s the closest to).
Hi. Great videos and looking forward to getting my all in pledge. I notice your card holder and wonder what it is and where to get one from? I have been looking for one for some time. Thanks.
Hi Andrew! Thanks! Here's the one I got. www.amazon.com/Innovatium-Hold-it-Game-Card-Organizer/dp/B001LFA4IQ/
Great video. Very clear and honest. What is the agreed boundary on the board?
It's hard to explain without an image to reference, but outer most white line seems to be the agreed boundary (as apposed to the edge of the leather graphic or the inner broken line).
Ive found a few errors with the names of abilities, found it difficult at times to decipher the icons and combat. I havent played the campaign yet, i felt like it took too long to just work out the combat and the rulebook does a poor job of saying what tokens you need for combat. I feel like sfg need to send out an updated rulebook, otherwise it will be difficult to play. I can fudge rules when playing alone but taking this to the games club and saying oh the rules are messy so here is what we will do is pretty bad, especially for such a big game by such a great games maker.
Yes, the rules in the box and some wording and icons on cards should have had a bit more time spent on it, especially in proof reading. There are also some typos in the adventure books too. A real shame.
Do check out the released errata though, you can print out and sleeve the printouts with the cards from the game if you’ve sleeved them.
Me and my friend tried it at the weekend and had similar issues, it was really frustrating at times as it took us a while to figure everything out, I do like that it gives you a tutorial but I agree that we really need an updated rulebook that has everything together in more detail
@@tacticaltaleshobby As a one-time proofer and editor myself, I find the lack of attention give to proofing text a very aggravating aspect of modern game and rule-book publishing. It is especially unforgivable with games as complicated - and expensive - as this one.
I think zones was a design mistake.
I think the game has many design mistakes. XD
Thank you for your honest thoughts, appreciate it, however, it is so much negative aspects in your thoughts.. How would you rank the game so far from 1-10 scale ? Would you back it now, with knowledge and experience you have now or would you easily skip it ?
How you think it plays with 2 players , when each player uses their own character ?
Again, I don't want to put out a final review and score until I've played it more, seen more of the enemies and got more of the story. There's so much content I haven't experienced yet that it would be unfair to rate it at the moment.
I suspect this might be quite fun with 2 and 3 players (while at 2 it might be a little harder due to the enemy number scaling for 3 characters). Downtime between actions isn't that much as actions are quick, and having another player to experience this with could add a lot to the overall enjoyment.
I was playing today and been having a lot of fun with it. I have been running two characters while wife plays another two the early game is easy but fun. I think the fables additional heroes box has been worthwhile also
@@andrewhunter8054 Happy you're enjoying it! There's definitely some fun to be had with Bardsung. :)
Thank you for the video and sharing your honest opinion.
What other games in the genre were blowing your mind?
Alone Against Darkness does a lot for very little cost. Gloomhaven JotL is my favorite campaign-based RPG-like. Cthulhu Death May Die is just all around fantastic, and my favorite one-shot crawler. Just received Machina Arcana which is supposed to be excellent too!
@@tacticaltaleshobby
Very good taste! Although...
BGG doesn't familiar with "Alone against darkness". What is it..?
@@wishmeheaven Sorry, it should be Four Against Darkness (which I mixed up with Alone Against Fear from the same designer)! Doh!
How does it campare to the "gold standard" of dungeon crawl WHQ95 iyho?
Sadly can’t compare it but from my knowledge of WHQ95 this is a much “safer” and casual experience. You’re not going to get swamped and killed in the 2nd or 3rd room.
I see you have Sword & Sorcery on your shelf which is my current favorite dungeon crawler. How does this game compare?
Hi Nick. Bardsung is quite a bit simpler to learn and play, also managing 3 characters solo in Bardsung is also a lot more manageable. Bardsung has 30 something chapters vs just a handful in S&S Immortal Souls. You’re getting a lot more hours out of it! You’re also getting a lot more, and quite a bit better looking minis. Having said that I think S&S is a much better game. Combat feels a lot tighter and crunchier (which some might not like) in S&S and the enemy AI is a lot more varied and harder to predict. Also, because of the predetermined map layout and objectives, each scenario feels a lot more unique, requiring different strategies each time. Bardsung feels quite Sammy after a while IMO. S&S is closer to something like Gloomhaven, and Bardsung closer to the D&D adventure system games.
Okay, sounds like what I anticipated when I decided to skip this: A quite good looking dungeon crawler with an amazing price point for the core pledge but ultimately pretty average and servicable, not bad but also nothing that sticks out, maybe aside from the story deck that "saves" your decisions, which I hope to see iterated on in other games. Thanks for sharing your honest impressions, helped me to confirm that there is no need for FOMO here, despite the big box that lures you in :D
It's a fun game, and has some cool and unique mechanics. But (as of now) I wouldn't call it a sure-fire hit for everyone. There are definitely people who are going to love this though!
Hi. Watched this video again after receiving my copy and playing the first two encounters. I agree with everything you said. The rule book is massively inconsistent veering from pretty good (icons at back) to lousy (clearly explaining key rules like Echo token placement, what is the difference between threshold and boundary, amount of figures in a zone, etc.) I want to like this more but so far it’s underwhelming. Like you I also have Folklore which is a pain to set up and play solo but the writing and theme / characters make me really forgiving to that game’s weak points. (Also it’s a labour of love from a single creator not from a private equity backed large publisher). I feel this game hasn’t been tested at all with the final version and rules set, it’s not on to have to go to a facebook group to iron out all of the questions when this had a large kickstarter fund. They needed a professional rule book writer to write the manual and as you put it some more “time in the oven” Ultimately I feel this is a large box of miniatures with half a game system bolted on but will try it with my group before I sell it.
Can't argue against anything you said here. I feel like there's a really good game in here that'll need a bit of work. I'm sort of holding onto this with the hopes the community will rally behind it and release some good variants and modes for it (I'm currently working on one myself on and off). I feel sad that I sorta grew tired of it before I got to fight some more enemies and bosses. I'll probably give it a rest for a while and get it to the table again in a month or so to continue the campaign. If it doesn't get better by then then I'll probably try and move it.
@@baysidejr Honestly, with the games you have (excellent selection btw) I really don't think Bardsung is doing anything radically different, or different enough to warrant retail price!
I have this game backed and I'm really excited. As far as comparing this to other SFG, what do you think. I'm usually unimpressed by their games but this one looked more put together. Maybe its because it's their own IP.
I've only played Dark Souls from them, but people seem to really love the Resident Evil games.
The game is designed so that the deeper you delve.. the aspect of the dungeon changes too...bringing more varied and complex trials and tribulations....the actual regions take on a living persona...reflecting those who dwell there and reacting differently to intruders. You will not be disappointed
Looking forward to playing more soon!