About people who NEVER hear the gospel
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- A transparent and thorough treatment of the question from a biblical perspective. Various issues are dealt with such as why people get judged in the first place, what all people should know, biblical examples of people who were saved without hearing the gospel, a rebuttal of universalism, how we ought not suppose that all religions offer a path to God, and how the reality of people responding to the gospel means that we need to be serious and vigilant in evangelism.
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Thankyou Pastor Mike for this careful and helpful explanation!
C.S.Lewis said "Nobody is saved except through the blood of Christ. But not everyone who is so saved is aware of it."
Explain to me how is that possible because it sounds like sentimentalism theology to me. Or calvinism election, wich is heretical.
You may say like many others "that's not very loving of you", and I say, if we do not rebuke a false gospel that will save no one, are we loving our neighbor? I don't think so.
That is just a horrible and false understanding of salvation
Your understanding of Calvinism is false,@@JesusProtects No Calvninist would say someone is saved without having faith in Christ
If you're reading this, God bless you. No particular reason I say that other than that I've been too caught up in politics and fighting online. We all need to take a step back and pray.
God bless you!
and GOD bless you ❤
@@eli_tnpmartha1943 May God bless you and the rest of the church
God bless you..... The majority of people that argue online are just wanting to spread hate and your not going to change their minds... Find people that are genuinely wanting to live a better life and spread the word of Christ... Again God bless you and keep your mind fixed on Christ
And may God bless you!!!
I am from India. Your teaching is biblical rather than theological. That's impressive. I want to know more about your ministry.
In India, you might be lucky with the Saint Thomas Christians. They are one of the oldest (ancient) christian communities in the world. You could possibly have conversations with them in your native tongue (depending where in India you live or such).
This makes me SO grateful that I was born into a family that loves the Lord and that I had the opportunities I have had to learn about the truth of Jesus. Praise the Lord!
Amen!
agreed
@@jaziybabe me too
Thank you so much. I only started listening a few months ago. My friend suggested I listen to your sermon on Jehovah's witness. I have a friend who is in that cult. I have been listening ever since. Thank you for your preaching. You make everything easy to understand. Clear verse by verse teaching. May God continue to bless you and your ministry.
Well I thought I was the only one that first saw him through that video 😆 🤣
How's your friend doing? Is he out of the cult? I pray God bless him with the truth.
I've come to the same conclusion and I'm so happy to hear I'm not alone in this. I often think of the examples of the Ethiopian eunuch and Cornelius; people seeking God who's searches were met with answers.
I cannot see how God would reveal Himself in creation and conscience to those who never heard the gospel, and yet deny salvation to any who truly plead like the tax collector: "God have mercy on me, a sinner."
This sermon is the most biblically sound review and answer I have seen to the question of “What about those who have never heard of Jesus”? Thank you for your careful and loving diligence Pastor Mike.
Abraham's faith was in YHWH who revealed himself as "I AM", Jesus pointedly revealed that he is the "I AM". Salvation is through Christ,, regardless of the age or place of revelation. All tings are FROM and TO the Father, THROUGH Christ, the Word, and BY the power of the Holy Spirit whether we speak of Creation, Revelation or redemption.
Great point!
That's pretty
U may be right T, however, check out Bi lical Unitarian, I believe it's called. His claim is that ANYone who's on a mission from God, can be bestowed with the ' I am that I am tag?
Jesus did not say He was the I Am He simply said before Abraham was God and He has always been with God...John 17:3 plainly tells us that there is one God and it the God of Jesus, John 20 :17 Jesus tells us again His God is our God.....peace, love, and light
@@bobbywolfe7191Thomas said to Jesus “my Lord (wait for it….) “AND”
MY GOD..(John 20:28).
John 1:1 says : In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Colossians 1:16 says : For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. I COULD CONTINUE ENDLESSLY WITH THIS
Thank you for this clear, humble, biblical teaching. Another example from scripture: What gospel did God call Jonah to preach to over 100,000 people in the ‘great city’ of Nineveh? Whatever it was, it caused them to repent and believe in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
My goodness Mike I'm learning so much from your videos. You tackle the tough subjects that we Face everyday. This one here is an essential truth to understand and explain when we are witnessing. Thank you for doing such a great job here. I love it.
Then the other video on Romans 9 and Calvinism was absolutely fantastic as well. I took two pages of notes. Praise God. Thank you brother.
I agree with much of what you have said. However, I think you fall short in believing that you can ONLY be saved prior to physical death. Jesus spent three days and three nights in Hades preaching to the lost souls. That is called "Postmortem Evangelism." There are NO scriptures in the Bible to support that a person can not be saved after their physical death. You yourself said that God's will is that none be lost. I believe that He has the power to refine them through the work of Jesus on the Cross, and give them a chance to accept Jesus as the Way, the Truth, and the Life, even as they stand before the throne of judgment. I believe that ALL of creation will be reconciled through the finished work. Otherwise, you are condemning billions of dead souls to being lost, regardless of the price of their sins already being paid for by Jesus. He bought us all, lock, stock, and barrel. He will redeem and refine us now or later to His glory and our salvation.
I think this verse best sums things up:
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: - Acts 17:30
Not certain of the Old Testament times but in this age it is quite clear! Jesus is the ONLY way and the only way people will come to a saving faith in Christ is by hearing and understanding the Gospel message (Rom. 10:14-17)!
God will use his creation along with our conscience (Rom. 1:19-21, 2:12-15) to bear witness of himself and the fact that something isn’t right but it is the Gospel message and the Word of God that will bring one to an actual saving faith and understanding this makes me keenly aware of the incredible responsibility I have when he gives me opportunity to be a witness for him!
I am a Calvinist but a balanced, biblical Calvinist acknowledges both God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility!
Ray Sauter Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38
This such an encouraging message. I grew up in the former Soviet Union and there were many many millions of people who were born into the revolution and died before the collapse and never had a chance with the Gospel. You are also correct about the fact that God doesn’t really owe us anything. When people ask me “what about all the horrors in this world”; it’s exactly what I answer them.
try reading the book....Eternity in Their Hearts....and see if this would apply to the conditions that you have mentioned...….
@Patrick Montgomery
John 3:3-5
3 In response Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.” 4 Nic·o·deʹmus said to him: “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
So what happens to the people that died and was never born again?
Are they able to enter into the Kingdom of God anyway?
Did Jesus lie when he said "“Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God"?
@Patrick Montgomery
My question remains. In Della's post, what about those who died before the collapse and never had a chance with the Gospel? They never had a chance to come to the knowledge of the gospel and be born again.
2 Peter 3:9 (NIV) The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
How does your religion explain this conundrum?
@Patrick Montgomery
The bible has the answer but your religion does not have the correct interpretation so your religious leaders ignore scriptures they do not understand. It is a long explanation but I will show you the short explanation.
Re 5:9, 10
And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you BOUGHT PEOPLE FOR GOD OUT OF EVERY TRIBE AND TONGUE AND PEOPLE AND NATION, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and PRIESTS to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
Rev 20:6
Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years
God''s kingdom is in heaven. Those going to heaven will be kings and priests and rule with Jesus for 1,000 years. Priests officially represent God to the people they served, instructing them about God and his laws. In turn, they represented the people before God, interceding and pleading for the people.
Why are priests needed in heaven if everyone going there are saved?
Rev 20:6 speaks about a first resurrection where the second death has no authority. Doesn't that imply a resurrection to follow?
Who would be in the resurrection to follow where the second death does have authority?
How can they be resurrected to heaven if they are not born again?
Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
Psalms 37:11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it
If the resurrection to follow is an earthly resurrection. The people can be instructed about the gospel through the priests. The people become the subjects of the kings that go to heaven in the first resurrection. They do not need to be born again to see the kingdom of God in heaven since they will live forever on the earth. If a person then rejects the gospel the second death does have authority over them and they will die in their sins.
@Patrick Montgomery
Most Christians are taught they either go to heaven or go to hell. They ignore God's other promises about living forever on the earth. If you think these scriptures are errors and heresies then show me where I went wrong by pointing them out. You did not know how people that never heard the Gospel could be saved and go to heaven without being born again. You was going to leave it up to Jesus. But God has already revealed this.
The question is more why did God set the whole thing up like this? Saying that what would be fair is to send everyone to hell isn’t really a good answer to the fairness of God. I am a Christian and I struggle with this. God made us knowing how the the whole thing would go. So really what is the point? He made beings that he knew would be evil. Why? Ugh. I love Jesus, but I have a hard time understanding this. I know God can handle my questions. I just wanted to leave this comment because your sermon is good but it doesn’t really answer the questions being asked. In my opinion.
Why do people have kids knowing they can betray, hate you one day, not return what is given.
@@dante44 it is nowhere near the same thing. Your analogy is unrelated to my point.
wow that verse at the end has really got me thinking about some things .. i pray for God to give me wisdom in these matters.
Mike you are a true blessing to the kingdom don't stop. I was truly blessed by this word today
Did He?
@@betrion7 always ongoing ;) God knows what he is doing , we are co-workers in Gods service, it remains his work. When we dont know , it is safe to fall back on this concept : our knowing does not change the reality of Gods work. He is Just in every way. Even as I seek more knowledge, I pray for content in what I do know , what has been revealed unto me and pray for God to use me in any way required at what ever level of wisdom im at within my current context of existence.
You should add each verse that you use in the description so we can refer to them later when we’re not driving.
Haha
You're so good why don't you do it? 😆
A bit of appreciation that we all get this and for free would be nice. Thank about a sense of entitlement 🤦🏿♀️🤦🏿♀️
@@ifehansson2254 Entitlement? How’s the temperature up there on that high horse?
Wait a minute! Genesis clearly states that Abraham: "[Gen 26:4-5 KJV] 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." He was certainly pre-Law of Moses, but there was still Law before Moses.
There has always been the law of your conscience. Faith is believing God and obeying. Holiness is required with faith but faith is essential.
Romans 2 14-16
@mineben256 That doesn't change what I said about Genesis.
Thank you for taking the time to prepare this information and making it so accessible. Your humility and openess are so refreshing and also engaging into what you share.
How do you reconcile this with the below?
“for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
Romans 10:13-15, 17 NIV
General revelation brings people to their knees - where in scripture? I thought mankind suppress the truth of general revelation and though they know God, do not recognize him as God. (Romans 1). No one can come to the son unless the Father compels him to come. Through general revelation? Hmmm I don’t think that is orthodox
Found this video on 3/13/22. Mike has a BIG library, more than 600 videos on this channel. I look forward to watching all of them in time. But I've been looking for a scripture-based response to this exact question about those who are never exposed to the gospel for 20 yrs. MAY GOD BLESS YOU & KEEP YOU, PASTOR MIKE!
Jesus (Yeshua) = Salvation
Christ = Annointed One, implies “King”
Jesus Christ is THE Savior King!
they are guilty, as you and me, and this is why we take them the gospel, or they will perish. He will reach his sheep, he will not fail.
@A A God is such a loving God he actually went to the Cross was beat up and hung at Calvary for hour upon hour, spikes in his hands and feet. He was spit on they drove Branch spikes or thorns in his head, they buffeted him and he went through all that because he loves the people he created.
I would imagine that folks as you mention who were born without capabilities for much, they will be rejoicing in heaven with brand new bodies and praising God with the other believers. I have faith in God because he is so good he's given up so much to get me.
@A A very interesting, thank you for writing that. I'm going to have to read it a couple more times. I'd like to try and get full understanding of what you're saying.
All I know about judgement is that the Lord has prepared a Lake of Fire for the devil and his angels.
"But the fearful and unbelieving and the Abominable and murderers and whoremongers and Sorcerers and idolaters and all liars shall have their place in this Lake of Fire which burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death." That's all I know LOL
@Infinite Adriannn well no, what he said would not be Calvinistic
This is such an AMAZING sermon. Thank you Pastor Mike.
Revelation 5:9 can also be understood to mean, every tribe tongue people and nation who are in existence at the end times when the scene in heaven is happening will have representatives there. Not necessarily every one from history who ever existed. I take these verses very seriously as I am a missionary working in the remotest parts of the world who has purposely sought out a tribe to work among who had never as far as I know ever had a believer in the history of the world, since the tower of Babel. So I've based my life on this verse in believing that going to these last remaining tribes is worth while because at least someone from that tribe will be saved. In fact up til now we have just celebrated the first 16 believers and are now translating portions of scripture for them. It is impossible to know if someone from this language group has ever believed in Christ before if he appeared to them in a dream, or to an infant, etc. But by the "normal" means of salvation, this tribe had never heard of Jesus before we started working there in 2003. Since that time there has been a major change as they have began to accept the true and Living God little by little as they have come to understand Him. Praise the Lord for the freedom that has set them free from the bondage they were in to sin and evil spirits, etc. Practicing all forms of evil. They were not happier in their ignorance, but are experiencing real freedom and joy now for the first time ever. It's our privilege to get to be used by God to bring them the gospel for the first time. I can think of nothing greater. May the Lord inspire many more to devote their lives to bringing the gospel to those who have never heard.
Benny Hinn me.....hahahahahaha!!!
All my doubts were cleared.Thanks be to God
Cornelius is a good example of that minority seeking God but not knowing Him, God sent Peter
Jesus saves ALL the Sheep.....ALL of them.....not one more and not one less.......Men all deserve hell if God never sent Jesus to save anyone....thats what Arminians don't want to believe. It's God's mercy that He saves one person. So those who have never heard will be judged according to what they have done.....they were not one of the elect.....they were not predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ....In Adam all die; in Christ all shall be made alive.
@30:55 "how many people really are like this and they're out somewhere and maybe they're in a pagan culture surrounded by false religions and then they realize..." as someone who was cluelessly Catholic, and was converted by tribulation to look to God alone in _that tribulation_ questioning everything _but_ the Creator and the name of Jesus, which I did confess but hardly understood, I can testify that God Himself *will walk you right out of your error* if you are trusting Him above yourself. In our modern world that is hard and my tribulation effectively rendered me helpless (so that made it a lot easier to quit pursuing the way that seemed right in my _own eyes_ as I kind of didn't have many other options) but that blind walk in raw faith in God and this Jesus I did not know very well, was very biblical; God gave me understanding as needed, by deposit that I didn't even know was 100% consistent with the teaching I would later find in the bible. In other words, Isaiah 55 and Isaiah 30:20 in the _Greek_ are 100% true. If you seek God with your whole heart, He will guide you to His word through His understanding that He gives you in your faith. I was thrilled to eventually come to scriptures to see everything I _had already_ experienced was actually written.
Isaiah 30:20-21 In the Greek:
And The Lord will give you the bread of tribulation and straight water and those leading you astray will no longer approach you because your eyes will behold those leading you astray. and your ears will hear the words of those behind you misleading you saying "this is the way we should go, in it to the right or to the left"
inTruthbyGrace, thank you for your testimony. God is faithful to reveal Himself to those who seek Him.
Why then did you not learn about your Catholic Faith ??? You actually gave up the sacraments and especially the Eucharist for this !!! Why not progress to know God better ? Direct from Jesus …. leave the man made churches for the Catholic Church. .. Contrary to what Winger says Catholicism is at one with the bible as nothing in Catholicism is contrary to the bible. Every mass has four bible readings including the Eucharist which is based on John 6 & 14 other scripture verses. See Dr Scott Hahn a protestant pastor who turned to God in the Catholic Church
11:34... When a nonbeliever… Or a believer for that matter, asks me, “What about people who have never heard the gospel, Have no knowledge of the Old Testament or any of the patriarchs… Just none of it, how are they judged?“ I also go to the passage in Romans that talks about the law of God, the knowledge of good and evil, The knowledge of right and wrong written on their hearts.
Then I also add this: “I know the nature of God and that is that he is 100% just, rich in mercy, and compassionate. I believe firmly that the scripture supports that God will deal with any such individual with mercy and justice. I also know that just because he hasn’t stated exactly how he deals with such people does not mean he will not be just and merciful with them. I believe that even a person who has never heard of the gospel can make an internal choice to love good and hate evil and feel remorse for having failed in doing good.
I was waiting for the Q&A session at the end......
Roy Sammons Yes, me too.. Somehow, not included.
If someone can be saved apart from hearing and believing in Christ, then the worst thing we can do to someone is tell them about Christ
I think about my brother who has autism and downsyndrome and can’t really wrap his head around Christianity…
Ya know the creation never proved God to me but since I started believing and got saved, I see just how perfect everything really is made and the harmony of the creation which points to intelligent design. This is no cosmic accident, this is not order out of chaos (which by the laws of physics cannot happen), it is intelligent design!
The beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
God is good, gentle, wise, kind, just, and ... definitely fair.
"From one man He has made every nationality to live over the whole earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live. He did this so that they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us."
~ Acts 17:26-27
Preachers receive a lot of flack for merely presenting a message from god’s word. Now, I know why Jerimiah cried all the time. I don’t hear genuine questions here. I hear rebellious talk by those claiming to be rational and level headed. You stir the pot and refuse to look for god, either to the right or the left. You stiff neck people! I won’t name names. You simply need to read the negative comments to know who they are!
Yeah, this question is an atheist favorite. “What about the native people in the Amazon jungle who never heard about Jesus?” Not that these people actually care about natives in the Amazon. They just think it’s a good argument. Missionaries have been going to all parts of the earth for centuries and still are today. You’d be hard pressed to find a place where they haven’t gone. It’s harder to make that argument now than ever. The question for the atheist in return is to ask them which tribe they know of that hasn’t heard about Jesus yet?” I’d be interested to hear the answer.
Ignorance cannot wash away sins Acts 17:30, 2Thessalonian 1:6-9
@A A If that concerns you then feel free to help spread the good news of Jesus Christ to people who may not have heard of Him yet. 👍🏻
@A A Well if you're a Christian then you should know Romans 1 and that there's no excuse for unbelief. You'll also know that no one is out of God's sight or is forgotten either. All the Father gives to His Son will be saved.
The point I was making before is that atheists don't care about either of those things. They certainly don't care about some natives who they've never met and don't plan on meeting. They just use those people as an excuse to throw stones. People like that care much more for the accusation rather than the ones they're using to accuse.
@A A You don't understand that atheists like to accuse God of being unfair?
AA if you believe that ppl cant be held accountable because they didn't have opportunity to know Jesus then say you preach the "gospel?" Why? If you don't believe theyll be held accountable why would you place them at risk? You don't make sense. Maybe youre a JW or Mormon? In that case, those groups dont preach the True Gospel. Each group has man-made books they put above the Bible, namely the Book of Morman and The Watchtower.
We are the ones who bring the special revelation that the thirsty ones need to be saved. Let’s just preach the gospel.
We have to be careful with this though. Us simply spreading the gospel isn't the special revelation, it's God Himself, His Holy Spirit, working within us, that does the special revelation.
So, I have been a believer for 24 years. I know that the unsaved are judged by their conscience. The part I have struggled with is that I know how people are judged based on their conscience but how do they get salvation from this judgment without ever hearing the gospel? Aren’t they just set up to fail? For instance, the ancient Chinese or the Aztecs pre-Spanish. They have the law on their heart and are judged by this but from birth to death have no chance to change their destination due to never hearing that there is a cure for sin.
I have finally come to the fact that God can save who he wants to and no man will have an excuse. What that looks like on the day of judgment who knows. He didn’t have to save anyone and maybe people don’t hear the Gospel because God knows they would reject it even if they did.
God judges people outsides the body of Christ and his wisdom will be reveal on the day of Judgement. Jesus is God and great Savior, so let us pray for unbelieving brothers.
Thank you so much for addressing this! I've had this question for most of my life and I've had to rely on faith, knowing God is just.
Dante even addressed this issue in Paradiso 19, and came to the same conclusion.
Is it important to know African Americans are actually Hebrews of the Bible? U say u have knack for tough questions.
There are black Israelites but to conclude every African-American would be Biblical Hebrews is false. The tribes of Israel most likely had varying degrees of melanin from tribe to tribe. A hard truth that even many Christians have a difficult time embracing is..that there are no longer ANY chosen people of God outside of Christ and His Church. A Jew needs the Gospel, the African needs the Gospel, light and dark skinned Jews needs the Gospel. That's the nature of the New Covenant.
Also Galatians 3:8 says the gospel was preached beforehand to Abraham" (paraphrase) So I believe Abraham did have some knowledge of Christ.
John 3:18-19 KJVS
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
There's a lot of assumptions being made about morality. Morals can be learned through relative well being because we are a social species.
I truly want to believe in the Christian God, but logically it makes absouletly no sense. I've done everything to call for a higher being to give me an answer, but the further I look, the more I realize there's more to this than pointing to a book that tells us how we are to humanely (relatively speaking) treat other humans as our property. This video does well on explaining that God isn't some kind of mafia thug way saying "believe in me or I'll send you to hell." Some will argue that you send yourself to hell, but in the Christian religion, God created hell and if that person chooses not to believe in God and also chooses not to go to hell, then it is God who decides to send that person there.
The real problem still stands, and I've dug deep into understanding where the books came from within the Bible. Still I don't know, who wrote each book of the apostle's? Why were there verses omitted and some verses added (to which were not from the original source)? The reason I ask this is because this then questions the validity of the entire book.
I am an honest man, just seeking the truth because I would love to find a way to be with my beautiful family forever. It would be nice to see what comes next after death, but I also would see it being irrational to source a book that was used to commit inhumane atrocities in the name of God. Look at history, and look at all the different denominations. If God wanted us to know the correct means to avoid hell and go to heaven, wouldn't you think that it would be one United Church to which God actively participates in a form to which there is no doubt in our minds that it is a sound fact? Instead, we are left with several variations of the 10 commandments, convoluted assumptions about what we think God meant when we read scripture, and God who had to kill himself to prove a point.
Hi Johnny, have you come any closer to the end of your search from 4 months ago?
“A good example of our need for the gospel is found in Acts 10. Cornelius knew about God and was “devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly” (Acts 10:2). Did God save Cornelius because of his devotion to God based on the limited knowledge he had? No. Cornelius needed to hear about Jesus. God instructed Cornelius to contact the apostle Peter and invite him to come to Cornelius’ home. Cornelius obeyed, and Peter came and presented the gospel to Cornelius and his family. Cornelius and his household believed in Jesus and were therefore saved (Acts 10:44-48). No one, not even a “good” man like Cornelius, is saved simply by believing that God exists or by honoring God in certain ways. “
that makes god the worst being to ever exist because there are people who haven't heard the gospel who live in such remote places and speak their own language
I think this is the unanswerable question. All the Bible really talks about are those that hear the Gospel Message are responsible for their response to it. The Bible never mentions what will happen to Confucious, Native Americans, the modern day Sentinelese (uncontacted tribe), or to the person stuck in North Korea who is born into a country where they are expected from birth to worship the "Dear Leader".
None of those people have heard The Gospel. All the Bible seems to imply is the more you know, the greater your responsibility is to do what is right.
I believe the question is unanswerable. I mean, there are people who think they are going to heaven who aren't. Jesus even said, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Gospel Hand but it says that if you haven’t heard the Gospel you’ll be judged by your conscience
God try to bring salvation to the Sentinelese but they murdered Chau....
2024 July 21 questions skeptics episode brought me here. Great message ❤
I listened carefully and I could take issue with a few points, however, This subject was handled really well.
A great teaching.
Share those issues, please!
you obviously didn't have any real issues otherwise you would have listed them
Calvinists says those who never get to hear are simply not elect, even though never hearing would be a good excuse...
Nathan, man is condemned for his sins not for how he responds to the Gospel. Romans 1 is explicitly clear that God's eternal power and divine nature are revealed to us all by the created world we live in and we should worship God and give thanks to Him as our creator...
...But none of us do that. None of us. We all surpress that truth in unrightousness and we all exchange that truth for a lie of our preference whether it's worshiping the creation, money, power or ourselves and The Lord says we are WITHOUT EXCUSE because of this.
Completely false. The god taught by both Arminianism and Calvinism are both wrong. A god who creates all things, and then fails to save his creation and is happy with 1/3, is not good news. That means Satan won for all eternity
They have free will and eternity to chose God, not just one human life time as we are told.
Greetings Kyle. I wish you the best in life. God bless you.
I have presented this question many times to many different Christians. All of them presented weak and unconvincing arguments to defend this theology. I came to this video hoping for some brilliant defense, but Mike is not any better than the other people I spoke with.
I'm asked this question constantly. Mike your God sent. Bless you and your family.
Hello Mike
You said, isn’t God a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him ? Yes but the question I want to ask is why Paul writes in Romans 3:10
As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
There seems to be a contradiction here unless our faith and repentance are a gift freely given to us through the sovereign work of God in our regeneration .”a change of nature “ that’s why we now seek Him and did not before because we were dead in our trespasses and sins , He made us alive and gave us a measure of faith (Rom 12:3 )in order to please Him , all to His Glory.
So yes I agree that there are those who are ordained to obtain saving faith before knowing Gods full decreed plan for the unrighteous to be made righteous thru the sacrificial work the lamb of God ,our High Priest, our Mediator , our King . Who are they ? They are the elect , chosen by God before the foundation of the world by His will and Grace Alone .
2 Thessalonians 2
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:28 -34
John 3:3- 8
I appreciate your love of God and His Word
And your willingness to dialogue with reasonable brothers that oppose 😀
Lance Graham Romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8-9.
We’re judged by our capacity. If one never hears of Jesus or even the entire word of God, they are judged on their capacity for knowing what is sin and wether they chose not to. Sin is self evident, if you recognize you’re sinning, or recognize it’s wrong to do certain things, which every human does, and they choose not to do those things, they’re judged on that. People who aren’t exposed to any technology, no word of God, still know morality, they observe nature and they can see what’s evil and what’s good. They’re judged on how much they listened to their own conscience. Our conscience is what hears the Holy Spirit, they’re judged on that alone if they’ve never heard any word of God. Also, when the end comes, all living humans will have heard and given opportunity to repent and accept the lamb sacrificed by the father to save us from eternal destruction.
I'm a big fan of the Native American Indian, Tecumseh. He was just and righteous without knowing the Lord, and was terrorized by white "Christians" taking his people over. It's hard for me to reconcile that the one that is truly righteous, without knowing Jesus is damned, while the white man is saved. It's a hard topic for me to understand.
@@taylor6618 it’s not about taking over his people. It’s about sin, God uses evil people to do his work as well, when his people aren’t doing as they’re commanded, he allows ungodly people to conquer them and enslave them. He holds his own people to a higher standard than people who are already lost, if his people are being righteous and a cannibalistic tribe (unsaveable)is attacking them, he empowers his people. It’s true throughout history. If his people are being fools, not following his commands, and ignoring him, he allows them to fall and be conquered. I’m a big fan of Blackfoot because my great great grandmother was a Blackfoot princess traded for horses, but just because I’m a fan doesn’t mean I have to believe in something I know to be incorrect.
"It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me-" this verse is so true and real to me because I refused Jesus for a while but was open to Him but I believed in YHWH with all my heart needless to say it wasn't long till God revealed to me His Son and I believed because if you believe in Moses you believe in Jesus.
Yes if you truly seek God with all your heart he will reveal himself to you. Jesus is God!
Interesting. Good for you. But what of those who have desperately seeked God, cried and begged for him to reveal himself and He never did? Please spare me the “god reveals himself through his love and word.”
@@adamropp4757 Everyone travels the road at different speeds. So too is everyone’s journey to God. Keep seeking, He will reveal Himself to you when it makes the most impact on you.
If you believe that some are saved eternally and some are not, then you believe that Salvation is “of men”, and you do not know the Real Gospel. If you know that He came “to save the world” and was successful, and that all men shall be saved eventually through Him, then you know the Real Gospel.
Universalism is heretical teaching.
@@douglasmcnay644 Yeah, either that or Biblical. All of those Victorious verses you can tear out of your Bible. Who needs em? We got the horrifying “news” for mankind, that the evil god is going to torture us all for eternity. The story ends is an eternally tragic travesty and failure. A total disaster for mankind, with an evil sinner god torturing people alive forever. That’s all the Good News we need really.
Needed this I was trying today to explain this
Hi mike lately I’ve been watching your videos may i ask.. so do you believe that God still speaks to people who didn’t know the gospel, through revelations even the Bible is already written?
Thank you for this. I’ve been really struggling with this question.
Thank you for this scripture based study. I find no fault in these arguments and explanations.
It's easy to make up your own rules when basing them upon a book rooted in circular reasoning.
Except Hebrews tells us the OT Saints also needed Jesus’ gospel. They received it when He descended to the captives in Abraham’s bosom.
“These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.”
Hebrews 11:39-40
Why not progress to know God better ? Direct from Jesus …. leave the man made churches for the Catholic Church. .. Contrary to what Winger says Catholicism is at one with the bible as nothing in Catholicism is contrary to the bible. Every mass has four bible readings including the Eucharist which is based on John 6 & 14 other scripture verses. See Dr Scott Hahn a protestant pastor who turned to God in the Catholic Church
@@1234poppycat May I please mention this sir.... if you read John chapter 6 and you get the Holy Eucharist out of that I really don't understand it. You would have to be taught from someone that's what it means. The biggest question is AJA, have you been born again? I know that's not taught in the Roman Catholic catechism nor in RCIA class nor ever preached during mass. But it's in John chapter 3. You had to read that first before you got to John chapter 6.
My second question is if there's a heaven, who goes there? Is there a hell? Who goes there?
Here are just a few basic facts that may help you.
First, Faith comes hearing and hearing by the WORD of God.
In order to be saved you must be under the hearing of the gospel.
We can only be Born Again only by two means God uses to save one.
1-Being born again by the word of God 1 Peter 1:2
We are sanctified by the washing of the water BY THE WORD OF GOD. Eph. 5:26
Jesus is the author and Finisher of our faith. It is ours by the gift of God least any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9.Heb. 22:2
Going back to being born again, John 3:3-5
We must be Born Again by the word and by the Spirit of God. God must apply His word to our heart by His Spirit this is what makes the word real to us.
Only the true worshipers can worship God on Spirit and in Truth His word John 4:23.
Anything else is just the wisdom of man which is foolishness with God. For God is wiser than man so listen to Him rather to man.
More common sense. Actually more than common for to be as wise and such a fluent speaker as you who have to be opened to it. Every video of yours I learn something or have something reaffirmed
Damian....me also! Really a blessing! Although by some comments it's clear many hearts will stay hardened to the Truth!
Pastor Mike, thank you again. As a missionary pastor myself, I deal with this question ("What about those who never heard?") somewhat frequently. I don't know where you are going with this, but your characterization "as if they deserve salvation" isn't accurate to me. The question suggests, "If the only way is Jesus and they have never heard that, do they have no OPPORTUNITY for salvation?" Of course this sometimes leads to, "I can't handle a God who isn't as fair minded as I am!" That kind of pride is something I see far more than this specific question. "I would have created a world where nobody murdered!" is the kind of logic I hear from those who have not yet understood their own wickedness, the folly of such pride. I, however cannot condemn the reasonable question, "Is there still a way for them to be saved?" no matter what response comes after.
Someone who was saved by God but knew nothing of Jesus and wasn't Jewish? I noah guy like that!
And don't forget JOB! He was not even Jewish and was from a foreign land!
Contrary to what Winger says Catholicism is at one with the bible as nothing in Catholicism is contrary to the bible. Every mass has four bible readings including the Eucharist which is based on John 6 & 14 other scripture verses. See Dr Scott Hahn a protestant pastor who turned to God in the Catholic Church
The Roman Catholic Church says salvation is through faith and works but the Bible says
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"
Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."
Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."
Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."
James 2:24, not by faith alone
The Scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."
There is no contradiction. All you need to do is look at the context. James chapter 2 has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us to not show favoritism. Verses 8-13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.
James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14). In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith; that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions). Then he shows that that type of faith isn't much different from the faith of demons (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith that is words followed by actions. He writes of Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.
In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20).
Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul uses to support the teaching of justification by faith in Rom. 4:3. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example.
Conclusion
Justification is by faith. True faith is God's work (John 6:28-29), granted by God (John 1:29), and is concurrent with regeneration (2 Cor. 5:17), which God works in us by his will (John 1:13). This result of this justification and regeneration is that the sinner turns from his sin and towards doing good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor sustain it. Jesus accomplished all that we need to be saved and stay saved on the cross. All that we need, we have in Jesus. All we need to do to be saved--to be justified--is to truly believe in what God has done for us in Jesus on the cross; this is why the Bible says we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1). This true belief with justification before God and regeneration in the new believer results in good works.
God bless hope this helps
@@brucewayne5278 I have read your reply of which large parts have been cut and pasted. The problem is that nearly all your bible quotes do not support what you say. Nearly all say faith but NOT FAITH ALONE. The nearest you come to Faith Alone is … Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one." Note NOT faith alone. Note he says "apart from works of the Law" by which he is referring to Jewish legal requirements such as washing up to the elbow before eating etc... Now in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." You think you get out of it by saying it is "dead faith" he is talking about. Nowhere in James 2 does he talk about dead faith that is purely an invention on your part.
We have in scripture passages about faith but never faith alone.
+ Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
Pastor Mike, I’ve been watching your videos for many months and this one has really motivated me to evangelize especially to my friends and family. God Bless your ministry.
Don t you get it? He says: Wrath comes upon you for the sins you commit. That brings the wrath of God upon you. But otherwise he preaches: "God hates the sin, not the sinner - so why would the sinner be punished. Rubbish. And in the Romans: "I, God am the potter, I mold some to be wicked, some to be saints." So why would he first make wicked people, and the have a feeling of wrath upon them? So his analogy with teh firefighter is not valid. Correct me if I misunderstood, thank you wonderful people. Thank you also to Mike Winger for bravely defending God, although in my view with flawed data.
I think Jesus was insulting them with the Sodom and Gomorrah verse. He was saying you are so stubborn that you're worse than the most stubborn and condemned cities known to you. It's similar to when I told someone "you're so mean, Hitler would've been kinder to me before you."
Might seem minor, but I have a disagreement. You said wrath comes because of sin, and sin stays because of unbelief. I agree that wrath comes because of sin, but I would say sin comes because of unbelief. Unbelief being suppressing the truth as defined by Romans 1:18.
If you look at Romans 1, you can clearly see the order is this:
1. God reveals Himself in nature.
2. Men suppress the truth about God that can be seen in nature.
3. Men become foolish and vain in their imaginations (idolatry).
4. God gives men over to all kinds of sin.
5. Finally, God judges sin.
Outstanding pastor Mike !! Well done. I'm learning a lot about all the truths you say from gods holy word. Thank you and God bless you and all who believe in our lord Jesus
You would do better to go to "Catholic Answers" Why not progress to know God better ? Direct from Jesus …. leave the man made churches for the Catholic Church. .. Contrary to what Winger says Catholicism is at one with the bible as nothing in Catholicism is contrary to the bible. Every mass has four bible readings including the Eucharist which is based on John 6 & 14 other scripture verses. See Dr Scott Hahn a protestant pastor who turned to God in the Catholic Church
@@1234poppycat may I please ask this sir, why would I go to man to tell me what HE THINKS God says, when I can go directly to the Bible to see what God says?
If I go to the Bible it says this for instance, and I don't think this is taught in the Roman Catholic Church. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Ephesians chapter 2 look at verse 8. "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God," then look at verse 9 "not of Works, lest any man should boast." They definitely don't teach that in Roman Catholic Church I believe correct me if I'm wrong, they teach Works based salvation.
Check this out in the Holy Bible as well. Titus Chapter 3. That's in the New Testament right after 1st and 2nd Timothy and before Philemon and Hebrews. Look at verse 5 "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his Mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ Our Savior (in verse 6.) Wow glory to God my savior. AJA, are you born again ( have you had the washing of regeneration,) have you been saved from the Wrath to come?
I Peter Cap. 3 | NIV-EN
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits-
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
Verse 19 might be the answer
What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
Romans 7:7-9
For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law
Romans 5:13
Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.
John 9:41
Mike, I'm late to this video and know you probably don't have time to answer, but I have a question based on your sermon: Do you think the same "terms" apply between the OT and NT saints? "The new covenant not having been given yet" and "the new covenant having been given but not heard by everyone" are different circumstances. Different "terms and conditions." Right? The NT saints tell the requirement for salvation: belief in one's heart and confession with one's mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we *must* be saved. And because of sin inundating creation, many will never hear that Name (like you said near the end).
It seems you and I both part from Lewis, who essentially said in The Last Battle that sincerity is enough to save someone. Personally, I believe (like you seemed to say) that when someone realizes their need here in Anno Domini, God provides them the full Gospel message through some means.
thank you. I had similar thoughts about this.
I'm just interested what church is this? maybe I would visit it one day.
There are actually 3 types of Revelation from God
1. Historical revelation - we all have descended from Adam and Eve and Noah’s 3 sons (If someone grows up never hearing, it will be because their ancestors rejected God’s revelation to their forefathers
2. General revelation - Psalm 19 & Romans 1 the creation testifies to God’s reality
3. Special revelation- The Bible etc
Jesus said no one can be saved but by him, and Jesus is God. Therefore, general revelation should be enough. Right? God gave me a conscience, and my conscience tells me that some aboriginal guy on an island in AD 80 who believes in God, by evidence of creation, ought not burn in hellfire forever. Am I right?
There are so many testimonies of Jesus appearing to people who otherwise would have no opportunity to hear the gospel due to various circumstances.
Salvation must come through Christ, and it seems clear God will go out of His way to present the Gospel directly to someone unreachable by any Christian (usually because of real physical or circumstantial constraints) if God knows that person will respond well.
Thank you. The gospel → Christ died for our sins. He was buried. He was raised on the third day. He appeared to the apostles. １ Corinthians １５：１－５ Isaiah ５３ Anyone is saved just by believing in the gospel. Romans １：１６ Ephesians ２：８－９
I'm not sure if Mike is aware, but he kinda refuted his own argument in a way. He is making a case for the billions of people that won't know the name of Jesus, yet he is stating that the Biblical evidence for this kind of general-turned-special revelation is extremely rare. If it is extremely rare, how could it account for the billions? I'm not sure he even answered the question at all. The question of: "do the billions of people who don't hear the gospel get saved?" was not answered clearly imho. Simply showing that there were people in the OT that believed in Yah without Christ and got saved doesn't answer how the world under the New Covenant receives salvation without knowledge of Christ (not possible). As God has revealed, in the current times only those who hear and receive the Gospel of Jesus will be saved. A person cannot be saved without knowledge of their sin and need for a savior in Christ. That is EXTREMELY simply answered and Mike's whole sermon here seems to be attempting to wiggle around the fact that that sinners inherently deserve Hell, and the fact that those who don't hear the name of Christ never deserved to hear it in the first place, and lastly get what they deserve in Hell simply because of their sins regardless of their knowledge. I agree that general revelation can lead to saving faith through the acquiring of a Bible, being preached to etc. For example, someone in China who desires to learn about the true God and eventually finds a hidden church or gets their hands on a Bible. THEN they can be positioned for salvation. But the idea that someone could be, in the current world, positioned for salvation based on general revelation alone isn't Biblical.
That is the answer here. Everyone who doesn't hear the name of Jesus and dies will go to Hell because of their sins against God. And God is just for doing so. This question assumes that every person DESERVES to hear the name of Jesus, but clearly that is not true. No one does good, no not one. "NO ONE can come to the Father except through ME."
What about a sincere follower of Judaism that follows God but doesn't believe in Jesus as Messiah? Do they follow a false God?
The bible we have and the resources we have now is God's way of getting His message out to the entire world. I truly believe there is no excuse for any person in the world to deny His word (Bible) and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...His holy son...rejecting the free gift of grace and faith. Yes moral laws that are of God are inbeded in every human being and it is because of those moral laws that everyone person sould seek the true God and come to know Jesus as our only source for salvation. Even in the most remote areas of the world I find it difficult to accept the name of Jesus and who is can still be unknown. Old testament not everyone who knew of Jesus but yet were saved but when Jesus came in the flesh to earth in testament that brought the new covenant of God which is in and is Jesus Christ.
If you think conscience could save you, god will deal with consience. But god sent Christ! All men had sinned. And god sent Christ so whosoever believed be saved! Consience is not a way, Christ is! No Christ no salvation! Do not believe to another gospel. You will be cursed!!
If there was no Jesus and everyone would go to hell it would not be just or fair. Sin however bad does not justify ETERNAL damnation. It might Justify punishment but not ETERNAL one. That is never just. Never fair. How is the creation responsible for what creator made it do? Its the problem of free will all over again. An All knowing loving God doesn't put children next to matches in a room and expect them not to use those. He doesn't put an fruit he doesn't want you to eat in a garden next to you not knowing full well you'll eat it.
This comment alone makes you worthy of eternity in hell. Because it’s shows your enmity for God plainly. It also demonstrates you don’t want God to be who He is: fully righteous and holy. You have also no respect for the wisdom and authority of God, you don’t understand something thus God must have had evil intentions.
To summarize, you actually don’t want the be in the presence of God, His holiness makes you feel awful, His wisdom is a threat to your own authority. Therefore you can never be close to God, into all eternity, and there’s is only one place were the presence of God will be eternally absent.
@@Lena.9 I don't think you realize what eternity in hell means because you wouldn't condemn anyone so easily to it.
How is it fully righteous to condemn anyone to eternity of pain for a temporal non eternal crime? There is no amount of evil your child could do to condemn it for even a second of hell not to mention an eternity and how much greater is love of God for his creation then a humans love for his/her child?
There are people who spit at God and curse His name do they deserve an ETERNITY in hell for something they did during their finite life? I don't think its just even for hitler stalin or mao to spend an ETERNITY in hell for the pain they have created in their finite lives.
If God is just and merciful eternal punishment cannot exist.
@@dzikdziki2983 I do well realize what it means to some extent, therefore I wrote that comment. It was not meant to condemn you, but to let you reflect on your own words and attitudes. Because it *doesn’t matter* what *you* think what makes Gods judgment right or not.
I hope you will bow down to His authority and submit your mind and will to what God presented about this in His word.
Your sins are committed by a finite person, but things aren’t about *you* , the sins are committed against a *eternal* God. That’s what’s defining the punishment. And if you don’t stop rebelling, you will continue rebelling in hell. You will not miraculously stop sinning there, so you will are trapped in a vicious circle forever.
Please pray God He changes your heart from enmity to love! I know what it is to hate God because He seems to be unfair. But I was so wrong…
My life has become peaceful since I surrendered to the King:
‘Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.’
Psalms 2:12
@@Lena.9 Good for you then. Glad it brings you peace. God Bless.
These verses back up your last two sentences ...
" *God* has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all." (Romans 11:32, ESV).
"The creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of *him* who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Romans 8:19-21, ESV).
All people who ever lived will be resurrected after thousand years and judged according to their works and not all of them will be thrown into the lake of fire , but those whom God will judge that they deserve it. This is clearly written in Rev 20:13-15. This will be second and last resurrection . Believers in Jesus will be resurrected in first resurrection --Rev 20:5. What is called hell is not final eternal fire . Hell is hades(gr) and is temporary . So that all who are in hell- hades will stand before Great white throne judgement and will be judged according to their works , because majority of them never even heard the gospel. We the Church are special people chosen by God not only to be saved , but also to be his army on earth to stand against the works of the devil so that through us also plan of God comes to fulfillment .In verse 15 it is clear that only those who were not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. Hell also will be thrown into that eternal lake of fire, so that we see that hell is not eternal. It comes to the end at the Last judgement.
The Jehovas Witnesses have the most Biblical logical explanation. During the 1,000 years that Satan will be bound, God will ressurrect all those who never had a chance to hear the gospel (babies, people in remote islands etc) and will hear the gospel during that millenia. Then Satan will be unbound again to temp the nations once again just as all who have heard the gospel have.
This is theologically sound and yet the amount of evangelical Christianity (not Catholic or many other denominations) have seldom even entertained these thoughts yet alone taught them. You did well to bring up correct examples from the Bible and stay careful and open where we just don’t know. Only thing I could be slightly more open to is the idea that a person from another religion (however careful, rare or sticky this is) may be communing with the real God just by the concepts they hold in their individual minds when they do their thing. Each person translates and perceives things differently even when they are seemingly speaking or doing the same thing as others. Some may be unknowingly drinking from the rock that is Christ just like the Jews did. Or they may not. We don’t know
Um, Abraham definitely had knowledge of Jesus according to Galatians 3. It says God preached the same gospel to Abraham when He said Abraham's seed would bless the families of the earth. That's referring to Jesus bringing salvation to the Gentiles according to Galatians 3. Abraham definitely had faith in the Messiah.
Thank you for making the point about fair meaning we ALL die for our sins. I love dropping that bomb on my students in children's ministry. The realization helps to shift our paradigm about the unfairness of life. Personally, I'm glad life's not fair.
Aleithia Toews: "I love dropping that bomb on my students in children's ministry." - Your conflation of "students" and "children" is remarkable and deeply worrying. What people think of when they hear "student" is somebody who has, at least, reached the age of reason. But "children" is quite another matter. I do not mean to be unkind, I assure you, but imagine somebody was talking about communism or nazism and they wrote that they like to persuade by "dropping that bomb on [their] students in children's politics ministry." Please consider honestly what you would think.
To me, this desire to see children as "students" and to manipulate their beliefs, has terrible echoes of paedophilia.
I think the firefighter analogy is flawed somewhere. Because the firefighter who encounters a stubborn resident will, despite the resistance, still take care of the resident and drag him out of the building against his will.
Those who seek god will find him.
A point that comes to my mind is that all contemporary man is descendant from the children of Noah. All nations from the tribes that split apart from the tower of Babel.
We all descend from the direct witnesses of miracles and providence. That our fathers and mothers failed to pass on god's word is not god's fault.
Even the west, which was as Christianized as could be for a couple millennia, has now become secular and people living within it have no idea of the gospel. We've witnessed in real time what it looks like when it fails to be passed on.
The issue with people who have never heard of the gospel going to hell is not with regards with the fairness of God. Rather it raises the question if God is all-loving, and all-powerful, why did He not give them a chance to hear it to be saved? Would not an all loving God want to give everyone a chance to hear the gospel when there is now a righteous foundation to forgive sin through Jesus Christ?
Yes God is just even if people who do not hear the gospel go to hell, but is he all-loving?
Therefore the way to resolve this cannot simply be "God is just even if that is the case", the problem is not one of fairness.
Abraham did not even know, probably, the sacred name of the God of Israel. And there is plenty of examples where we can see that his understanding of many things was quite limited, and God interacted with him at this level.
Abraham knew about Jesus. The Gospel of Jesus Christ has been on the Earth since the time of Adam. This guy cherry picks the scriptures.
Sin is a jewish concept. Christian concept. It is unknown in almost all of the world. It seems so obvious to us right now but most cultures don't look at doing wrong as being against God. Those two things were very separate for most humanity. Most cultures had some kind of Taboos that is true but those are not sins as we know them.
Where in the bible you find stories of people who sought God from a general revelation? The text you quoted from Paul he was starting to give special revelation to the people so that they would believe. These people were lost and may or may not have responded positively to that special revelation which only shows they were not groping for God, even though they were responding to the general revelation. As you said, the fact they were involved in a false religion, worshiping other Gods..does not it show they were rejecting the true God - right when Paul said what he said to them?
General revelation does not bring people to God..special does. You come to odd conclusions...
Your last point is something that’s convicted me but as I re-read the gospel with that in mind it sometimes seems that those who would be saved had they heard are on the right side of Sheol (where Jesus went) and that perhaps He Himself ministered to them after death but before judgement?
At 12:24 I do not believe that is the right interpretation of the text. Notice that Romans 2:14 mentions "...by NATURE do the things in the law". How can a gentile by nature do the things in the law, when Paul stressed that ALL men have sinned and unable to obey the law.
The right interpretation is obtained when you take into account what Paul also said in Rom 2:15.."who show the work of THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEART". Paul is speaking about the regenerated nature in the gentiles who believe the gospel as confirmed in the old testament in Jer 31:33, where God talks about the new convenant and says, I will write my laws in their heart.
Lastly, notice Rom 2:16 also says "...when God will judge the secrets of men....ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL"..which is the Gospel of Christ. So these are gentiles who have heard and believed. Shalom
Fantastic teaching! So well explained. Thank you Mike.
I have never met anyone who hasn't heard of Jesus. I would state, as one who knows Him, that those who haven't heard of Him are neither saved nor condemned. That they will come before the one who judges and Jesus will make a judgment concerning them. I would add that nothing is hidden from Him.