The Controversial World of MLM's... And What Nobody is Talking About.
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- In this video, we delve into the world of MLMs (Multi-Level Marketing Companies) and explore their allure and controversy. And let me tell you... MLMs can be one of the strangest and most intriguing phenomena in the business world. I never intended this video to be as long as it did. But the more research I did, the more I decided that I needed to cover. It took me many, many hours and almost 2 months to do this research.
I have yet to see MLMs addressed from a Christian perspective. The real fuel for why I did this deep dive has to do with my background in New Thought and what I started noticing hidden within MLMs that needs to be talked about. (And it's not New Age.) I'm calling this the "dirty secret of MLMs."
My goal is to approach this with fairness but also firmness. I think there’s generally a lot of (understandable) anger and bitterness with some of the anti-MLM crowd, and I wanted to approach this from a different angle. I made this video with no resentments but with a genuine interest in the topic, your stories, and a love for people and truth. I actually had a really wholesome experience doing this research.
My view on MLMs might evolve as time goes on. But this is where I currently stand with MLMs. Thank you all for your help with this.
And thank you to my friend Phoenix Hayes for helping edit, especially the parts where I had to do a voiceover 🫶
Former MLM Leaders Share Why They Left it All: • Former MLM Leaders Sha...
Want to know more about New Thought? I wrote a book about it: amzn.to/3As8wTk
Timestamps:
Part 1: Definitions. What is an MLM?- 06:06
Part 2: Finances. Are MLM's Pyramid Schemes?- 21:01
Part 3: Mental and Emotional. Are MLM's Cults? - 49:10
Part 4: Spiritual. MLM's Dirty Little Secret- 01:23:10
Final Thoughts- 01:47:10
👀WATCH👀
Video References for this video:
●Jani James: • The Multilevel Marketi...
●Multilevel Marketing: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO): • Multilevel Marketing: ...
●In depth video about Amway according to a historian: • The Tools Cult: Histor...
●MLM’s are not Pyramid Schemes. They are WORSE: • Multi-Level Marketing ...
●I got Rich Working for an MLM: www.huffpost.c...
●Leaving LuLaroe: • Why Women Are Quitting...
●Interview with Robert FitzPatrick, an MLM expert: • MLM's Want To Steal Yo...
●How MLM’s are Legal- MLM Expert explains the History of MLM’s and How They Bought out the Government: • The History of MLM and...
●How MLM’s and Amway have cheated the system: • How Two Families Shape...
●How MLM’s protect themselves: • How Do MLM Companies D...
●MLM Expert: www.pyramidsch...
●Cult Expert and MLMs: • How To Protect Loved O...
●Article about MLM’s and cultish behavior from Cult Expert: www.psychology...
●Direct Selling vs MLM’s: www.pyramidsch...
●MLM’s are Modern Corporate Slavery: • Multilevel Marketing F...
●Concerns about John C. Maxwell: midwestoutreac...
●Videos about Mormonism: • Videos About Mormonism
●Video about Mind Control and Cults: • The Dark Secrets of Mi...
📚RESOURCES📚:
www.amazon.com...
🤗DONATE🤗:
If you are led, consider donating:
paypal.me/Meli...
📲FOLLOW📲:
Facebook: / newagetochristianity
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My Website: www.melissadou...
💡SEMINARY💡:
Looking for a solid theological education? Look at Southern Evangelical Seminary: ses.edu/melissa/
If someone messages you that you haven't seen since high school asking you to go for coffee you are probably being recruited into a pyramid scheme lol
It was such an awful stereotype I had to fight when my family joined missions and started reaching out to people to build our prayer and financial support support team. Had to start every conversation with "don't worry, it's not an MLM."
Yes. Watch out for obvious red flags.
Or being flirted with for a possible affair lol.
This happened to me! I don’t think it was intended to be hurtful but it was.
This is so bad over the last few years. I was surprised recently when I was contacted by an old friend for coffee and DIDN'T get a sales pitch. For once. Sheesh.
Update: We left. Thank you to anyone who prayed for us. God made things clear regarding this matter in our lives.
You know, I was one that messaged you with a pretty positive view on mlms and how it changed my life for the better. However lately, I feel myself being pulled away from it the closer I get to God. My heart is currently on fire for apologetics and I’ve stopped listening to the resources supplied by upline and my eyes have been opened to the new thought teachings that are taught there. I’ve started speaking against some of the things they say and have been feeling upset when I hear people twisting the Bible all out of context to make it fit the business. Yes it has been a great experience and that’s only because it’s where I found God in. Lately, things just feel wrong. I’m going to keep praying on it and see where God pulls us. I fully submit to His will. Definitely pray for us.
Wow yes... Pray to not believe lies. Pray for wisdom.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
God Bless You 💜🔥🙏
Seek only His Spirit ❤😊
🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
God pulled me out...follow His lead. He will give you "God-pportunities" instead. I'm more present at home and I dogsit now which I get more income from. Praying for you! Side note I learned and grew and utilized the mlm to fundraise and pray for others so not all was wasted!
I was invited to an MLM sales pitch. The speaker compared getting people to join with sharing the gospel. "How can you say you love your neighbor and yet not invite them join up? It's like not telling them about the gospel." I knew, right then, this was a scam.
Yes, that’s the problem. It replaces the gospel.
Yep that was the angle I heard a lot… “you’re not selling something, if you love someone you need to tell them about this product, it’ll help/heal them, if you use a competitors brand you could actually hurt them because they’re unsafe…” etc. manipulating to say the least
Wow, that’s especially scammy and borderline rude to many of the Christian faith, like myself
Mormans are told they must be housewives and mlms dont count as a real job. Many of the men dont make enough for the many kids they have
Also i am a
non morman happy housewife of 21 yrs for context
@@ghhtdesfhwrong.
Kind of reminds me of being in an abusive/narcissistic marriage. Alot of manipulation, gaslighting, shaming, and blame shifting. It's a relationship that's hard to escape. The victim is left an empty shell of themself.
You're spot on. I researched narcissism for years. And recently, I was invited to join a MLM. I saw the red flag right away. Everything was so similar to narc manipulation tactics. They're of the same mind....or rather the same spirit.
These are a disaster for friendships because you end up turning friends into customers. The relationship is changed - damaged- sometimes irreparably.
I agree. And cheapened 😒
So true
Yes. I had a friend who only reached out to me when she wanted to discuss her products. Long story short...we are no longer friends.
The last time my brother-in-law hit me up for one of these I said, "Look, here's the initial membership money - just take it." But, I don't want to hear another word about it - I'm not a networker, I will never make a dime off this, and you should know that by now. Just take the money and leave me alone about it.
That was a long time ago, and he hasn't bothered me again. I guess he got the message?
Spot on. My wife had a similar thing happen very recently.
I grew up as a daughter with a mom who did an MLM, and watches her often support other MLM’s her “friends” are involved in.
I watched when she finally made the decision to step down within the company and all of her friendships changed because she was no longer apart of the “group.”
To this day, I can still see the prosperity gospel clouding her judgement at times. She has called herself out verbatim with using “Christianese” it’s so weird that you used that term.
But what’s scariest to me after listening to this video and going through counseling is realizing that the “mlm positivity” is what often drives a wedge between me and my mom. It is so scary to think that she still looks up to prosperity gospel pastors and isn’t involved in a good Christian community anymore. I often worry about her faith but man, this gave me words I didn’t have.
Thank you for the in depth deep dive. I pray that this changes lives and pushes others toward the real Gospel, reading it right out of the Bible and having good Bible literacy, not just “claiming pretty verses.”
This is my mom too! She and my Dad were in Amway. They took us to conferences in Florida and Arizona. We would road-trip with bread bags filled with bologna sandwiches in the cooler. We were on a shoestring budget. I don’t believe they ever made money, but they got to rub shoulders with folks who had “made it.”
Today my mom is no longer involved in an MLM but is always open to an “opportunity” to make money easily aka “get rich quick.” These almost never work.
Spiritually she raised my sister and I to know the Lord. My sister and I have been involved in very solid, Bible-believing churches for decades. Meanwhile, my mom has no social circle outside of her sisters and children, and has no church home. She watches TBN all day and is a believer in the prosperity gospel. She will never allow herself to say she is sick. You know how that goes. Although I do believe she is saved, her judgment is definitely clouded, and I believe it all started to go off track with Amway in the 1980’s.
My mom was also a serial recruitee for multiple MLM's, and if she wasn't in one she was trying hard to support her friends that were in them..."Oh I really want to help them out and be supportive, you should buy something too"... finally we both realized it's not helping them. We're spending $100 or more so they can make a few bucks commission. If they really needed "help" it would be better to gift them that money.
would your momma watch this video? This video seems compelling to me, ... but.. i suppose i could understand people need to take a few layers of blinders off before a video like this can be understood.
@@cryptfire3158- her Mom should start by turning off the TV.
That's greed. Realistically speaking you cannot get rich quick in a ethical way. You can with selling drugs,maybe gambling, prostitution or other unethical ways, sure....@@sarahvilmain3770
The major life skill I learned being in an MLM is to use the word NO.
Excellent, Melissa! One of my very first experiences with an MLM - and there have been many - was at a Mary Kay meeting. I was duped into thinking I was going to get a free facial, but didn’t realize I had to do the facial myself! I also went to a Mary Kay meeting for sales consultants, and I will never forget everyone danced in a circle to the song Pink Cadillac before the meeting even got started. There were also tearful testimonies. The saddest thing for me about MLM’s is how they’ve ruined social constructs. It’s impossible to tell when you meet someone new if they genuinely want to be your friend, or if they see you as their future downline.
Yes!!
They are still doing this, making it sound like you get some kind of gifted spa treatment when really you sit in front of everyone and try the products. Just call it what it is please. ❤
I was in MK for years. Loved the products. Didn't like asking people for money or to join so that they could spend more of their money. So, I was very low producing for my upline. The thing that broke it for me was when my director (who I really didn't like personally) was giving a pep talk and told us that if we wanted to succeed, we needed to be just like her (perfect hair, nails, dressed to the nines driving a company Cadillac). I realized that I didn't want to be her, I wanted to be me (far from perfect!).
I also was with MK. My leader expected me to do a certain amount of MK parties a week just to make a certain amount of money for her. She also showed me how to do vision boards and such. And I had to keep ordering inventory even though I was not making enough money. I realized it was definitely not for me. Also I came to find out that the person who recruited me (and the leader) possibly created fake MK accounts to make it look like they have more recruits. That’s how they won their pink MK cars. I was so happy to get out of that!!!! But I was left with so much inventory that I sold to people and used myself Until it was gone!
I often heard from my upline “we are just so much alike , or can’t you see the similarities?? So if I can do this so can you”
Why would I not want to sell a magic oil that costs $25 for an amount that would not equal a patty of butter! Sounds great to me! Except... it will require me to convert everyone I meet and or know into a sales hound which they are not... and if they cannot be one they are ignored and considered as less than... just someone I used to know. Sounds like a bad romance... got along without you before I met you, gonna get along without you know. And yes I can get a new girl friend for the price of a reasonable dinner. I'll have some of that! So, I think I will go to that meeting, what could I lose? Run away! There is no free lunch.
I would've quit right away.
I was in the same MLM I'm going to assume Mary Kay oh had to be 40 years ago. I remember going to the meeting and everything was about materialism... Look at this ring look at this thing I got this I got that it was over the top materialism. I didn't have a car at the time so I never did well but I truly loved the makeup and the whole concept of makeup and skin care.
Thank you so much for addressing this topic and drawing the parallels between new thought in MLMs and church. My mom has been in a Word of Faith church for years but now she’s sick and it’s been so difficult communicating with her about her health care. She doesn’t want to talk about the cancer diagnosis or anything. She just walks around repeating her “healing” scriptures in her own world. I’m angry and sad all at the same time😞Pls keep us lifted in prayer.
Sorry friend. Prayers for you and your family.
Years ago I had two different times I was "invited to a party", eager to make friends in a new community, only to be sold overpriced junk be women who really didn't have an interest in being friends after all. The third such party invite came, and I told my husband I didn't really want to go but these ladies don't take no for an answer. He gave me carte blanche forever after to tell people "my husband won't let me go to these parties or buy these products". He actually doesn't care about them. But he cares about me, and how hurt I was by these fake friendships. A+ husband. Still married 30 yrs later.
Yay husband!!! My husband days God gave us to each other so that he could be my buffer. I've taken so much abuse. He won't tolerate it!!! ❤️
That is so sweet 🥲 God bless you both
❤ My husband says that too about stuff. 😅 I don't really feel like putting the blame on him because I want people to know it's my choice but it's nice he is willing to be the scape goat. 😊
Feminism and woke cu.ture are so strong now that people would now tell you that your bowing to the patriarchy.
He is awesome😂
I “sold” stampin up! For a few years. I say sold in quotations because I got into it to get the discount on products I loved. However I was often forced to buy the new product line to do demonstrations because you can not do them with older product. I had a great customer base for a couple years, women who were have a lot of fun with the craft tools and the draw for the “free” product when hosting. Then one of my consistent customers wanted to become a demonstrator and we were all set for her to be my first downline. I was a bit nervous about it because she would then be taking over all the home parties I was doing, taking my customer base. Guess what happened? My UPLINE got her to sign under HER behind my back!! I lost everything I had worked for three years plus my friendships with those women. And I had a craft room filled with current product I didn’t really want. Needless to say they went to garage sales for a tenth of their original cost. In retrospect, the best thing I got out of it is a wariness of other mlm traps and my desire to create beautiful cards with my own artwork.
MLM people can only look at others as a means of their own gain, while telling themselves it is to help others. I was involved, thank God, no more.
I have been witness to that when one of my dearest friends no longer had time for me because I was not a conduit for profit.
Its a rather opportunistic trend in today's culture
It requires a certain level of narcissism and sociopathy to work.
That was the worst part for me
You’re 100% correct! I was in one years ago and felt so icky every time I tried to get people to buy something. It was awful and I hated feeling like I was only after my friends money.
Melissa. Your statement “critical thinking is not negative thinking” is an outstanding point. Something I am definitely committing to my way of thinking, being objective about whatever it is I’m looking at. Very well said, and great video!
There’s also the huge contradiction of “work from home, flexibility, more time with kids” vs. once you’re in and it’s “you need to hustle and be working your business 12 hours a day if you want to be successful”
its a bait and switch aka FRAUD
That part. The social media posts about how passive and easy it is are very misleading, because it's exactly as you say... even if you reach a point where you're happy with the amount you're getting back, there's unending pressure to level up, contact / cold call people further out of your circle to get more sales because they don't care what you make, they care what they make as the level above you.
💯💯💯
Wow, that is scammy as all get out!
The ol’ bait and switch
Thank you for this. You’re the first Christian UA-camr that I’ve come across to actually go in depth on this topic. I’ve wrestled with this for a few years, and this gave me more perspective and freedom to continue to grow as a barber/entrepreneur and build a business that serves the community.
As you were going through all the different books/authors, I was surprised to hear John Maxwell and Rich Dad Poor Dad. From leadership to financial literacy, I’ve learned a lot from reading them. But it’s good reminder for me to continue to read the scripture in its context
Yes, and the thing is that I've learned a lot from these kinds of authors as well. A lot of people have. And that's what makes it so tricky. They throw in a Bible verse here or there about thinking things into existence and because the other things were good (and true) We just assume that this is good and true as well.
This is why I repeatedly say that things need to be tested against reality and truth and That is done through critically thinking about them. This is why when people want to shut down your critical thinking capabilities, you're not able to do that.
Apparently Robert Kiyosaki made that whole story up! Maybe I'm naive but I was shocked when I found out
I can't wait to watch this! I was telling my best friend the other day that one of the most disheartening things about MLMs is the way they're used to "look down on" other Christian women. I see so much content on social media about "I bought our new car/our fridge of groceries/our trip to the Maldives/my husband's retirement all from sitting on my couch and selling shampoo. I'M a good wife because I never left the house." and it makes me feel like I can't feel proud of having a freezer full good groceries that I bought by having a standard part time job....because I didn't do it "from my couch"
Don't feel that way at all. Those trips are not fully paid for at all. These women spend all day online hoping to make money. Many leave their home in the evenings once their husbands are home so they can peddle their wares at parties. I am telling you, do not think you are less. I flat out told someone who tried to get me to do Perry Pay (😏) that I have a guaranteed salary, with benefits, on a promotion track that does not require me to wonder if I will have paycheck. She never even tried to sell to me again. She does okey with Perry Pay, but she and her husband have been building their dream home now for over 7 years only using her salary... They are well I to their 40s now, no kids. Trust me, it's is not all it seems. Might ha e their dream home, but children's laughter will never fill it.
Those people sound like scam artists.
Never thought of it that way... you're right... very damaging to shame other women. Not every woman can stay home and shouldn't be shamed if they can't.
And they are also lying. More than 90% of distributors lose money. The ones on top of the pyramid who are making money from the rest underneath them, is because either they joined at the beginning or they were already some type of influencer with a huge following and they convinced their followers to join.
Both of my parents worked full time, but had different hours so when I wasn't in school, someone was almost always home. When someone else watched me, it was usually an aunt or grandparent and I had a great childhood in that respect.
There are lots of ways to be a good wife and you should feel proud that you support your family, and I'm sure your kids will be proud of you too.
When we were once Mormons some people we hardly knew in the ward called to invite us over. I said no thanks we don’t do those. She got annoyed and said but you don’t know what it is! I said exactly, because you aren’t telling me.
Yep! Had MLM acquaintances do this to me too... never talk to me then randomly reach out and invite me to something. I was getting really tired of it so when one friend reached out and said, "are you free next Thursday night? " I replied "It depends, what is the event?" She wouldn't tell me what it was and got mad, "what does it matter?! You're free or you aren't!" Finally got it out of her that she wanted me to go to a MLM party because she got something free of she invited so many people. No thanks! Stupid sales tactics.
Lop nice
I am lds. MLM would be the only thing I would let my (future) wife do.. because I would not want her out of the house to work I personally belive woman's job is at the house. I find it disgusting seeing a lot of pretty ladies at byu they are giving up too many years where they could. Be having children.
@@TheBrettMizerI hope this is a joke. But if you are actually serious I’m confused that you would allow your wife to get involved in a organization that has 99% chance of loosing money. And be exposed to theology that contradicts your own.
What put me off when I was taught at one of their conferences, "You have to convince your potential clients that they need something they actually don't need." I was disgusted at this deception.
That’s most advertising, though. I get especially suspicious when I’m told I deserve something in a commercial.
"they need something they actually don't need"
Sorry, are you referring to MLMs or religions like Christianity? Because that's a great description for both.
@@solly119119Do you think Christianity is monolithic in this regard?
@@Whydoyoubanothers Christianity monolithic? No, it most certainly is not.
You do realize the fact it isn't doesn't help your case. What kind of God sucks so much at communication it allows all kinds of different interpretations of its message?
@@solly119119Or what kind of sick twisted people exist who misinterpret the Word according to their own lustful hearts. Don't blame God for a problem man created
You are very gifted in sorting this out and presenting it in a comprehensible and interesting manner. Thank you for sharing.
The sunk cost fallacy is exactly why I stayed in MLMs for so long
That and the garageful of product
The problem with a product in an MLM is that it's usually not the best quality and is overpriced. That little onion chopper that you love...guaranteed you could find one similar for less that isn't connected to such a predatory and deceptive industry. This especially applies to skincare and supplements.
Good point.
Absolutely. Also, I know Mary Kay discontinues, rebrands, and/or repackages products on a regular basis which then pressures their sales reps to buy the new stuff even if they have a lot of the old still in stock.
Bought a generic - it broke. Went back to that chopper. It is the bomb!
@@KirstyE3 I still stand by my statement. There are dozens of companies that create quality products that do not participate in MLM. I have had the Cuisinart version for years and it is fantastic.
Yes, and regardless, I think we as Christian women can sacrifice some convenience for the sake of not supporting the industry.
You are so thorough, Melissa. Thank you for equipping the saints to discern. This is especially important where well meaning, God fearing Christians may be marketed to or recruited using deception.
**say NO to mind control!!**
And Yes To Freedom In Jesus Christ.
@@Believe-In-Hope He alone is the way!🙌
@@Believe-In-HopeUmmm, that is also mind control.
I love this video. I'm Hungarian, and MLM-system appeared here in about 1990. (I was born in 1973.) Right after that I was found the system by a lot of people in 1993. I saw a lot of people inside, I was invited to events, but I realized its real contets very quickly. In 2003 started to write a long study about the manipulation wasy of NET21 - it was published on the Internet in 2006 and soon it became part of Hungarian marketing literature. (I published it free for everybody.) The title is "Persuasion in Network-21, that is: how to make billions from millions' dreams." ... After almost 20 years I turned back to the topic and I am horrified to see that MLMs seem stronger and much more spread as 2 decades ago (thanx to Internet). I am strongly thinking about to translate my original study in English and make videos of it, like this brilliant one! Thanx for the experience!
You should do it! ❤❤❤
When I look back as my walk as a Christian... I look back at my time when I was still doing yoga and way into the oil company thing. Visualization, positive thinking, prosperity teaching - yep. The ladies who were my uplines we all about the self help, mindset...and what I call it now is *Christian Mysticism*.
I now know better. But I look back at how I was still a baby Christian in that time.
I was deceived.
“Christian mythology” would be a better choice of words.
Yes, you were deceived. They know to prey on baby Christians. Ask God for forgiveness, forgive yourself, and move on. 12:30
Part 2 and 3 were exactly correct, part 3 really resonated with me because, yes, you were not allowed to talk about your uplink or the company, and if you did your a negative person etc. same thing in word of faith prosperity gospel circles were they say “don’t touch gods anointed” which is just a silence tactic to not talk about the bishop/pastor or the church or your higher uplink that your tithing up to, same things!!! Great video Melissa
Thank you so so much for addressing this! Several of my friends and cousins have been roped into Monat. Seeing all the fake lifestyle posts and empty promises is so frustrating!
I am so very grateful that a prominent Christian is using her platform to inform and warn against these unethical companies!
After rhe the essential oil thing (Young Living) faded, Monat popped up.
Yikes. I'm only halfway through this video. I hope to finish this soon. But dayum...I was recruited into a certain company in 1999 that rhymes with Harry Fay. I could never build my business despite trying a few different times over the years. Because of things you said here, the light bulb came on over my tired head & I realize that yeah, it's time I finally cut the cord. I'm done!
I was in Pampered Chef while I was a personal chef. I did 4 shows a month and made just over a $1000 a month. When I went back to a position in a restaurant I no longer had time and then I could not meet the sales quota. It's a true direct sells company. I also never recruited anyone, just sold and it was great sideline income.
There is an MLM that starts with “M” but describe themselves as ‘the patriot store’. There is a mandatory amount to spend each month and it is $100. I almost did it, but the introvert in me said NO!
By the way, great job on your research Melissa!
Yup, was stuck in that one for several years. Getting out was ugly.
@@KirstyE3 oh really, I hadn’t heard of anyone getting out. I have been approached several times and they would never say the name just that it was an American company fighting against woke companies.
Yes, the constantly change their name too. To fool people. And there's many "Christian" people that sell this refuse to be transparent about the details of the mandatory membership they require. Won't even let you see the products unless you give over personal information. Alll the red flags!!!
I got out twice just sending them an email stating you want to cancel the subscription. I love the make up products but yes so hard to keep buying the same stuff. And no I didn’t recruit anyone lol.
And it’s so green washed. Not good products.
Thank you so much for making this video! I got saved out of new age/new thought/prosperity gospel/ MLM gospel and my whole life unraveled when I realized how controlled I was… people NEED to hear what you are saying!
Just here to say I hope this goes viral. I like some MLM products and buy them and some of my best friends are involved in them. But I am not comfortable with the business model, recruitment process, or marketing strategies of MLMs.
Maybe that's why lots of "networkers" don't succeed. Waste time working. ( spending time with those that should gave never have gotten them involved. ) Work with a few and make sure they succeed. Not with many some how hoping that a few do succeed. Hey bought larger bottle for less money at health food store. Total waste of $ poduct didn't do anything. Lol. Hey good way for pharmistical co to discredit a good product. Hey this happens with other industrial/ commercial product too. The rich get richer by discrediting a true competitor. By false product and false promotion. Ask this utuber what her real income is from? This utube is quite one sided. Why is that? Take away from a religios organization to recruite. Watch the religious organization die too. Eventually only senior left. Who eventually die off lol. Cult like behavior. Lol. Nice little rich Americian gal. What's her real take. Lol.
I'm glad you covered this, Shortly after having my second child, I had a friend from college reach out to me for coffee. It wasn't a good time, with a newborn in the Midwest cold, she seemed really desperate and so I was worried for her mental health. And although it was VERY inconvenient, I was worried something 'serious' like domestic abuse or depression was going on - so I went. It was a 1 hour drive one way - and I got there and it was a MLM pitch.
Oh, man. That's brutal. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I have also been hurt when friends reached out to me and it turned out to be a sales pitch, but nobody ever sneakily convinced me to drive an hour away.
It’s very frustrating when your spouse gets caught up in one of these *schemes.* My wife was involved in one of these for a few years selling and using diet products. She was brainwashed that she had to have this specific product to lose weight. All it consisted of was cheap processed food with low quality vitamins added to it. She did lose weight, but it wasn’t because of the food. She could have just as well lost weight eating twinkies and Flintstone vitamins. People lost weight from reducing their calorie intake not the special weight loss bars which were super ridiculously expensive. Even with her selling the bars to other people, we still paid more for her diet than she made selling the bars to other people. With all the time she spent trying to sell her bars to other people I calculated her making about two dollars an hour. I was never able to convince her that it was a scam, but she ended up stopping because we just didn’t have the money for it anymore. I think I remember it costing about $700 a month.
You're a good husband.
Optavia?
@@BobbiGail Sounds like it, ugh. You starve yourself for a long time, which is why they lose weight right away, but I noticed that many of the people have been doing the program for YEARS. Maybe because if they went back to eating food they would gain a ton of weight right away because the bodies are use to the low calories.
Melaleuca says the exact thing. They deny that they are an MLM and use direct sales company. Only thing is, compensation structure is the same, conventions are the same, same motivational books etc., Christianese, money money money focus. I have been in several MLMs and they are not pyramids but there are a lot of issues and there are a lot of positives as well. It’s not for me, but I have friends who do very well in them and are very happy.
Yes, yes...owner is mormon...you'll see lot of masonic #'s...gotta get 35 pts month and blah blah
As someone who experienced all of this I can say this video is extremely well done and absolutely true, thank you Melissa!
I love hearing all this from a Christian. I've been getting into anti mlm content and some videos I've heard use the anti mlm platform to attack Christians, conservatives, and people with traditional values. I appreciate all your research and efforts that went into making this video.
As someone who has been involved with my fair share of MLM’s, virtually no one in these companies makes decent money unless they focus on recruiting. They can still be deemed a pyramid scheme even when selling product. There have been numerous lawsuits won against MLM companies who were then forced to restructure for this very reason. It’s important to remember that just because something is illegal doesn’t mean people are not participating in it. Drugs are illegal and yet people get away with buying and selling them every day.
I appreciate the heart and effort put into this subject of Multi-Level Marketing. It’s a serious problem when people come to church to use people to move product or even use a church directory to approach Christian Brethren for “the business”. That’s not what a church directory is for.
However, to be fair, when we violate the Dorean Principle, we also turn Church Brethren into customers, like charging money for fellowship lunches, Bible Translations, Bible Commentaries, Bible Colleges, Seminaries, Christian Conferences, and even much needed Biblical Counseling. That’s selling the Gospel and Discipleship. And that needs to stop also.
There’s a book called the Dorean Principle written by Pastor Conley Owens that covers this topic and copyright, and there’s a UA-cam Channel called “Selling Jesus” that addresses this important issue. Ministry should be supported, not sold.
We gad a couple in the church I grew up in the 80s who liked to be the door greeters. Found out years later that they were handing out insurance businesses cards on the down low.
@@RCGWho Wow, that’s so wrong. It’s a reminder to actually get to know people before letting them serve in a formal setting.
We spent 6-ish yrs in Ham-Tray. The best thing that came out of it was we actually came to know the Lord at a conference Sunday svc! Praise God! 🙌 We had a theologocally sound pastor leading that Sunday Service. Also, hubby learned some people skills that translated to a legit sales career independent of Ham-Tray.
The bad...we left our kids frequently for conferences, spent money on conferences that we didn't have, were too influenced by the motivational organization who was at the top of our sponsorship line, not Ham-tray itself. We were encouraged to buy books and listen to tapes in order to be sucessful. A lot of self-help theology was poured into us. We focused more on the "tools" and recruitment than the product itself, however we were shamed into changing all of our buying habits for more expensive, not necessarily better products. For a time, we valued people only for how they might enhance our business. This was from '92-'98. I asked forgiveness from God many times for how I treated people. It strained family relationships as well. Thanks for this thorough overview of MLMs, Melissa.
Glad you got out but God still used it for his Glory when you got saved. Just goes to show God can use ANYTHING to bring people to Himself.
@@tvtreasurechest6155 Amen!
What is Ham-Tray? Just wondering
@@kaykirby7957 Amway
@@kaykirby7957 "sc"amway
Yes to all of this! MY SIL is part of "Sung Biving" and it is sooo cultish. Her entire identity is " living the oily life". I personally think it is almost bordering on witchcraft. A lot of their products are called things like " abundance" and "prosperity ". She literally mixed " prosperity " into her cabinet paint to attract financial blessings. Every room has some kind of magic potion diffusing 24/7. She is a Christian and touts that all these oils are from the Bible and teaches classes on this subject. I appreciate your video so very much.
Yes! I had a friend get sucked into YL and it was almost scary seeing how obsessed their entire family became. It does almost seem like witchcraft, the claims they make about their oils. Very new agey and cultish, IMO.
“New thought is a movement that is everywhere!” Honestly, this is so deep and dark and needs to be exposed!! I genuinely appreciate this so much! I was with Monat for 4 years and I’m surprised it didn’t completely destroy my life and family! I saw everything that you mentioned and questioned it in prayer! I’m thankful that the Lord saved me from this deceptive system. Thank you so much for this video… it’s so encouraging to see someone with a platform talk about it and to the degree you did! The spiritual element to it is SO Dark, but most people don’t see it or don’t care!
Does Monat have a lot of new thought in it? I was just about to buy some of their products 😮
Yes I agree!
@@goldmillennial576yes they do! That’s were I was first introduced to new thought techniques actually! The products are amazing but I personally couldn’t support it anymore!
I once had a boss who got involved with an MLM. She pressed the employees including myself to join under her. My coworker did and was rewarded with raises and better schedules. I did not, and my 30 hour schedule quickly went down to 8/week.
When you went through the BITE acronym, all I could think of was my brother’s Mormon experience. He drifted off from a lot of his family for a while because of the isolation and information control
Im sure someone else has mentiondd it already, but there is a youtuber named Hannah Alonzo who specializes in breaking down the MLM lie. There are a couple other ladies ive seen around as well.
They dont come at it from a Christian perspective, but they are thorough and merciless in their dismantling of this stuff.
Always Marco is also great
Two hours, schmoo hours! I was ready, and you're not disappointing! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Not to mention the fact that a lot of these companies want you to lie to potential customers about the quality, about the product's contents, about it's safety and about it being "clean" or cruelty-free.
The “clean” products remind me how some UA-camrs, some Conservative ones, will push their sponsors’ makeup or skincare products to say it has “clean” ingredients. And when you actually do your research, they’re not really clean at all. It’s so ridiculous how desperate these companies get, yet they’re so deceptive. Not all of them, but a lot.
Kind of off topic, but I feel like when atheists think of Christians, they're thinking of people in MLMs. It's this caricature of not thinking critically and just accepting any feel good positive messages. I love this in depth digging on mlms and it's something I've been craving for a while!
My dh & I are introverts, and having to present 'the plan' to others was way beyond what we could handle. We faked our way through for a year or so, but in the end, had to leave. Thanks Melissa---you're truly blessed with discernment.
This is one of the best explanations of MLM that I have ever heard. There are few things more cringe-effective than going to church and feeling like you finally made a "Christian friend," only to realize they are trying to make you one of their MLM peasants.
Thanks for putting this together Melissa!
Really appreciate the work you put into this as from our experience, this tends to be a polarizing & divisive subject.
Thank you so much for making a video on this topic! I'm working my way through it in "pockets of time" "from home". I knew you would, as a Christian who cares about theology, tackle the whole spectrum of issues associated with mlms, not overlooking the "personal development" new age/new thought stuff that Christians should not be embracing. It feels like a breath of fresh air. Since Christian women are a demographic that seems incredibly vulnerable to becoming involved in MLMs I'm grateful that you, a Christian woman yourself, are willing to broach the topic for the education and protection of many even though you will certainly get pushback from your own demographic. I hope other Christian leaders will follow your example.
If you are offered a "business opportunity" and it goes way beyond "business", something is wrong.
Thank you for all the work you put into these videos. A few years ago, I was in a new church, trying to make sense out of a painful marriage. Vulnerable, for sure!! A few women befriended me, and before too long, I was invited to a Juice Plus "party". The invite said, "a salad in a jar party". Of course, the spcheel sounded good, and before the evening ended, I signed up to be a rep, forking over money I hadn't intended to part with. The women love-bombed me, and made me feel special. I was supposed to leave my phone on to be contacted by anyone from the company night or day!!! I politely told them "NO WAY". I had to drink my product, as no one would buy it. The shakes were tasty, but I NEVER would have purchased them on my own as they were expensive. I left after a few months. think it is beyond reprehensible to take advantage of a fellow believer, especially one in a weakened, vulnerable state. Why not simply come out and be honest about their business, and ask if you if "you might want to learn more." I would have flat out said "NO THANK YOU"", having gotten sucked into MK makeup years before. Wow!! Melissa, I didn't realize I had so much to share...thanks again. Being used by another Christian sure doesn't help the cause of Christ!
Just watched part 1 and everything you said was absolutely correct, I used to be an IBO in Quixtar (now Amway Global) and I heard all these sales pitches from them, secondly, when I saw the pyramid schemes in prosperity gospel churches, I was like, hey, I’ve seen this before 😢
It's so crazy to see it so plainly now. I've known for a while that so many religious leaders are false teachers, but in this light it makes it feel that much more messed up.
Same! I was involved early when they rebranded as Quixtar. I was involved in 2001-2004 ish.
Thanks so much for covering this, Melissa. I've never fallen into participating in an MLM because I hate sales, lol, but I finally began to realize a few years ago how many times I had crossed paths with them. I was honestly somewhat embarrassed that it took so long to see/understand, but now I feel quite validated, so thank you ❤️
The closest I came to purchasing anything was after something of an elaborate hangout with a coworker who, at some point before, had started talking about "her business" and I didn't piece it together until I saw she had placed one of her soap products at the breakroom sink. It was labeled on the bottom ..."Hamtray"..., the name I was familiar with because my parents told me stories from the 80s/90s. (Their worst experience involved encountering a seemingly kind person in a waiting room who managed to learn enough about my mom to track her down later to try and sell her stuff.) When I expressed my surprise to my mom that they actually had good stuff she said, "Oh yeah, they have plenty of great products, it's just the way they went about selling them that was so upsetting."
Even with all that knowledge, I didn't know how common all of this was until I stumbled across ..."Snorbex"... in my research for a good microfiber cloth. I even had items in the cart on their site but hesitated long enough to come across youtube comments saying, "This is just another MLM." After that I started to see through the enthusiastic marketing and, like you, could not unsee it.
This video has connected so many dots for me, even outside of the topics discussed. Thank you again for your hard work and dedication, Melissa! You have taught me SO much over the years and I am forever grateful 🙏🏻
She's gone on and did the winger!😅 Next, I want 4 hours! Then you team up with the Winger and do a videothon. Anything under 12 hours will be unacceptable!
What's a winger?
Mike Winger
I'm assuming they are referring to Mike Winger, who is known for his long, in-depth videos. 2 hours is a just a warm-up for some of his stuff.
2 hours is just a warm up 🤣
Right on! 🤣
Watching this as I’m getting ready for bed and taking my supplements from an MLM that have literally been life changing for my health and my family’s health 🤷🏻♀️
I can understand some of the criticisms toward MLMs but I love our supplements .
but you can probably get the supplements elsewhere, too.
I belong to an MLM until I found out the leadership, who routinely give thanks to God, were all New Agers! I found out when the top leadership took me to a new age church, it woke me up! My wife belonged to an MLM, and when we went to a leadership meeting, we found out their leadership is deeply attached to the NAR. They are even close friends with the leaders of the NAR.
Your experiences are quintessential of Christians participating in MLMs in the last couple centuries.
I’ve been involved with 4 MLMs and they all push New Age training seminars.
Which ones are they? Call them out so that others aren’t deceived.
@@lilimccarthy8664after listening to the video, I should clarify that it’s more so New Thought being pushed in comparison to New Age, however, there is some of that also. The one I got involved the deepest in was R-Bon and it was very new thought and culty, next is Jews Plus (it was more so the upline than the business itself, although I didn’t listen to too much of their direct info), Bella & Bot has lots of New Agey pieces, and Rogano Boffee (didn’t get deeply involved whatsoever, but the starter kit came with advertising for LGAT meetings. All of these businesses take up all your time, you lose money to product, see lots of families split or struggle (I think lots of women get into them when I are already emotionally struggling), many quit the business and keep the mindset and train their families and friends how to think a New Though mindset. All of them try to send you to Large Group Awareness Training(LGAT) meetings that are basically New Thought mind control meetings and the founders of these meetings sometimes have ties to government, cults, and shady scientific organizations. I did a bunch of research into these meetings when a family member got deeply involved in one. They are actually basically an MLM in themselves…
Expose them.
This was so good. Thorough, well thought out, and gracious.
I joined an mlm. My upline was an influencer that i'd followed almost since her beginning days. She was great at the sales, a real go-getter, hitting goals and making rank and rewards. I was not. Our relationship stayed great because she's the real deal, but when she joined another mlm that in no way competed with the original, she was at first chastised, then penalized, then completely removed from the company. It was ugly.
I watched in horror as her former "friends" viciously tore her to shreds. People left the team over it, though im sure those who remained felt "closer" for the "trial" they all went through together. 😬
I've participated in many MLMs (not currently in any). I've seen and experienced just about everything you mentioned 😅 both the positive (exceptions) and negative (rule, and in one instance both within the same company, but under 2 different teams, it was like night and day). You were still able to bring some enlightenment on my experiences that I hadn't thought of before (and certainly didn't pick up on at the time). Thanks for putting this together! If you do a part 2, I'll send you some stories.
Same. If she wants to do another video on this... I can tell my experience as well
I wanted to hit the like button several times throughout the video. There was so many great points that you made. The sad part is that I watched this all the way through and everybody that I share with will probably not watch it all the way through, especially my friends who are in an MLM and I fear they may be too mind controlled so far.😢
“New Thought” is absolutely in many churches. Thank you!!!
Thank you,...GREAT work,...I've always felt uneasy about these but was never able to firmly put my finger on it
Thank you for taking the time to research this. MLM’s have bothered me for years, although I couldn’t quite articulate why. Well, other than the fact that they seemed to exploit a lot of women looking for some income while they homeschooled or cared for their children. I started a business on my own and have kept it going partly out of a desire to show that it can be done without an MLM. It’s not easy, but it can be done.
I did one for a while. It was fun until it wasn't fun. Haha. It started to get exhausting. I had to lug big, heavy crates of cookware to the parties so we could cook together, then I would lug them all back home and wash the cookware the next day, along with all of the dishes at my own house. I went to a different MLM party and she pulled cleaning cloths out of a small bag and I thought, "Dang! I picked the wrong business!" Lol
I also got tired of seeing everyone with a dollar sign over their heads. I think ALL of these companies are cult like, especially the conferences.
Commenting and liking to boost the Algo-gog.
Thanks for doing this, awareness of the predatory nature of MLMs are crucial.
I think that the UA-cam/online dating communities are similar. They all have a book, program, or coaching opportunity to sell. They constantly talk about personal development, growth, & positive mindset.
Wow! This video is spectacular and I lived your part 4. Thankfully, God’s tug pulled me back and kept me from going too far down the NT/NA road before I got too far. I actually found you while exploring the Law of Attraction, and in the end, my faith has been deepened by learning about these lies! Thank you for your work that was out in to this video.
SO INTERESTING!!!!!
I got a few friends in MLM (life insurance companies).
Just a side note. Maybe I’m wrong, but REAL direct sales is like Tesla. They sell their cars directly to the customer. No pyramid scheme necessary!
Tesla? Really? 😆
Wow, Melissa, well done! Thank you so much for all your research and for educating us. I had no idea about all the New Thought and Word of Faith influence in MLMs. No experience with MLMs personally but will definitely share your video as the Lord gives opportunity. ❤
I just tuned in and am bracing myself. Having been associated with a very large MLM for 13 years now, and having heard so many unfounded, frankly ignorant views all over the internet, I’m diving in. 🙏🏼
Also, it’s shame based. Quitting the MLM because you are losing money or spending too much time away from family is heavily shamed. So awful of those up line “boss babes” to treat people like that.
As a child of parents who attempted several several MLM's, I'm completely inoculated.
Yes some can get saved in an IBO conference, the one I attended they gave an alter call to accept Christ etc, but like you said Melissa that’s not the standard to judge everything, great job sis! Well done 😃
Another term they use is “network marketing” in place of mlm
I've been introduced to this recently, smelled a rat immediately - gonna do another zoom with the guy and call him out and share the Gospel with him
I was involved in an MLM on and off for years. Everything you said rang as true with me. The ladies I was involved with genuinely wanted to make women's lives better. However, the business consumed my time and thoughts, and I would feel defeated when I compared myself to the ones above me.
Wow! This was an excellent analysis of the MLM world! Thank you for doing this Melissa! I am a recovering MLM member and can see now what I felt squeamish about as I learned more about the inner workings but was both encouraged to ignore and convinced myself not to see. I no longer see others including my brothers and sister is Christ as "bread" to fulfill my needs, wishes and dreams, but as the people loved by God and whom He died for to have an eternal relationship with. That should by my focus for His sake.
My advise: Just say "not interested" if approached and always seek God's truth about yourself and who He is instead.
Thank you, Melissa. I’ve always hated MLMs and hated it when hubby used to be in one. Unless you are a hard core salesman and 100% bought in, you don’t make money. I know dozens of people in MLMs and they are mostly church people. Sad. I just ignore them.
This brings to mind how HOA’s work as well as Timeshares!
I was fresh out of the new age when I was recruited into an MLM. I pretty quickly got really uncomfortable with the new age/ new thought language but it was sold to me as a way to reach new ages for with the gospel.
Yeah, and I also have a theory of why so many ex New Agers are attracted to word of faith/Hyper charismatic teachings. I've gotten to the point where it's expected that this to be a huge temptation for them.
I'll probably make a video out of it soon.
@@MelissaDougherty It was opposite for me. I was raised in WOF & then reverse engineered it into the new age as a teen/ young adult before Jesus saved me.
Thank you so much for doing this! I’ve been praying and asking God for guidance in this area. I am in an MLM as I shared with you in email, one that is headed by Mormons. I was already in when I found this out & really do love the products. I didn’t get in it to make money. After finding out it was a Mormon company it’s just really bothered me. Now I have a decision to make & also think I need to repent for not looking into things beforehand. You’ve made a lot of sense & broke it down really well. ❤
I absolutely love your longer content!
This whole conversation reminds me of an episode of Designing Women when Charlene is selling cleaning supplies.
My mom briefly sold MK when I was very young, but didn't have much success with it. I remember playing around with her sample case and putting on the tiny lipsticks. I got wrapped up in a different MLM in college, and it's an experience I'd rather forget. My friend tried to get me recruited into a different one about a year later and I ran a mile.
As an adult, I've had a few Christian acquaintances who were involved with Young Living and AdvoCare. They always take it personally if you tell them you're not interested and try to give their products and company some deep spiritual significance. My biggest gripe with "oilies" is their insistence that essential oils can cure whatever ails you. I had people at work, church, women's retreats, etc. all try to cure my and my daughter's migraines, and hated being told we had already tried them and they didn't help. I appreciate essential oils as an alternative to artificial fragrances that aggravate my headaches, but that is the extent of what they are good for.
I started to sour on MLMs when I was in an energy company (rhymes with "spamwit"), trying to get my mom as a customer, but she had questions. I emailed my upline to see how he would talk to this potential customer (I never mentioned it was my mom), because she was on a fixed income, and on a budget plan. He told me to "dump that loser, she's not worth your time." This wasn't a one-off. A lot of the upper echelon of MLMs act like this (I was in too many when I was younger).
This is an absolutely fantastic overview with balanced, well- thought out insights. I'll be teaching an Entrepreneurship class in my homeschool co-op starting this coming Fall, and I'm seriously considering showing your video in class over the course of a few weeks, or maybe making it mandatory viewing for a homework assignment. It's a serious issue. I have friends who've been caught up in MLMs, and it's been so hard to watch the consequences unfold.
It's also ironic that Tony Robbins was the ad that popped up mid video. This self help, New Thought stuff is everywhere! 😅
I guarantee you that the EO community will come after this. They get so angry when people look beyond what they say.
And the Monat people!
What's EO?
@@miracles_metanoiaI imagine EO = essential oils?
You're probably right. I predict this in part 3. And I explain why in part 3. 👀
That is 100% where I've seen the most cultlike and new age nonsense from! I had a good friend get completely sucked in to an EO company and it was super weird watching her become so obsessed with them. When they sell oils that make claims to give you qualities that only come from the Holy Spirit...that's going to be a big no for me. An oil can't give you joy or faith or humility like they claim they can. Nor can they help you manage finances or make friends or grow spiritually like they also claim. It's super icky feeling and turned me off of EOs completely.
This is probably the best deep dive into MLMs i've listened too. You touched on a part of mlms that I too think is the most overlooked and you did so in a way that was straight forward and fact-based. Amazing video and deserves a lot more recognition!
I was invited to a massive meeting once,...reminded me of an old fashioned big tent prayer meeting totally focussed on all the money that can be made,...complete with an alter call
Back when jobs wanted ads were in rhe newspaper, I responded to a sales job. The interview was in a personal home, 1st alarm bell; then I got the pitch for the product 2nd alarm bell; then came the close for a monetary investment, last aarm bell. I was young, dumb, and stupid,and might have gone for it, but thankfully I was flat broke. The whole reason I went for the "job" was that I needed an income. This was years before the Internet was a thing, so I couldn't research the company but I quickly pieced it together that it was a scam.
I’ve had ‘friends’ in MLMs and it just didn’t feel like a genuine friendship. I wanted to be supportive, even met with one of the head people and went to a training (that felt like a weird worship service). But at the end of the day I’m grateful I didn’t get sucked in. And I actually enjoyed the product.
MLM meeting atmosphere of "what could you do with the money to advance God's Kingdom?" I remember that once when I went with a friend to hear their spiel.
Thank you for this, we got out of Amway, and it took about a year for us to realize that we were subject to a lot of Cultic behaviors. We blame our own greed for pulling us in. 6:01
This is just what i thought but did not have the words for. Genius Melissa! Thank you
"Hamper Jeff" 🤣 Loving this video
13:37 Due to the structure of MLMs with all the reps, the products are significantly more costly than they need to be, and usually the quality does not match the cost at all. There are also companies with scam products like ItWorks, where they claim a wrap around your stomach can make you lose fat, etc.
You are HILARIOUS with changing the MLM company names 🤣🤣🤣 SPOO-BLAROW🤣
Which was the ‘ham on trays’ cult??
Same thoughts here, having to use our brains to follow. Unfortunately I didnt get what “hemp on a tray” was…😢😂
I don't have time for their copyright strike nonsense, so it's easier to just use very average aliases 🤓
@@marciepreciado4067 No it's not, *hemp* in a tray. It's *ham* on a tray.
H*Am*... Is the * Way. * 😉
I got all of them but this one. It’s probably really obvious but can someone give me another clue? Or maybe I just haven’t heard of it. 🤷🏼♀️
WOW Melissa - you are a blessing. So much research and useful info - thank you
My mother in law is a successful Mary Kay lady. She’s been doing it for 30 years. While I would never be in an MLM and I think they should try to sell more products and less recruiting but I’m not a full on hater. We live in a buyer beware society and I’m smart enough to know I do not have the personality to be in sales what so ever
You sell more products by recruiting, because your recruits are the customers, who are kept at close range by signing them up, and mind controlling them into believing there is an opportunity for them.
@@thebusinessstrategistbw816we gotta raise a new generation of kids that won’t be easy to manipulate
So happy to see this episode! I've seen this connection, but never seen anyone speak about it before. Well done!