Star Trek Discovery 5.04 "Face the Strange" REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- LETS DO THE TIME WARP AGAIN!!!!!
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I loved the gag where in the last segment of the episode, Stamets clears engineering by just saying “get out, I’m grumpy!” I like that kind of self aware playing with the character’s development over the course of the show.
Stamets this whole episode proves why he's one of my favourite characters of the show. Him constantly shouting "spore breach" to clear engineering and then saying that he's kind of concerned that his staff doesn't know that a spore breach isn't a real thing was golden
I love Trek time travel episodes, and this was no exception. The only thing that would have made it even better, IMO, would have been for Reno to go up to Rayner afterwards and say, "You still owe me that drink," indicating she had put together Stemmets' odd "hypothetical time loop" conversation with meeting Reyner the first time, and realizing there were temporal shenanigans going on that she had to patiently wait out before she could cash in her drink order.
That would’ve been hilarious!
That would have been amazing 👏👏👏👏
Ok, seeing some other comments across the time continuum, we may actually get this payoff. Waiting…
In all honesty, I thought we're going to see either Lorca or Ash Tyler again. But I'm glad it was Airiam, up until now I can only imagine what kind upgrades she will received in the 32nd century if she was alive. And the actress playing Airiam in this episode is Hannah Cheesman.
No Lorca, but no problem, it was still a good episode. Just wondering why Lorca was not on the bridge? Rayner is a great character similar to Shaw from Picard S3.
I’m just realizing- if androids and cybernetic implants have improved that dramatically by the 32nd century, Airiam probably could’ve looked and felt a lot more like how she did pre-accident, and now I made myself sad😢
@@adrianvanleeuwenthey mentioned Lorca was on an away mission or something
I was thinking spock.
Lorca was on the Glenn in this time
Krenim Chronophage involves Red Foreman, now we know why it is a Red Directive.
Does that mean if they fail their mission, Burnham gets Vance's foot up her ass?
The time bug would be a delightful thing for Lower Decks to borrow for a fun episode.
That was Airiam 2, played by Hannah Cheesman. Airiam 1 was played by Sara Mitich, who went on to play Lt. Nillson. Nillson was said to have transferred to Voyager in "Jinaal", so I guess Mitich has moved on.
Bryce was on the bridge, the communication officer, Rhys was the one with S1 Burnham in the engine room.
I know, it’s confusing they gave characters similar names 😄
But I too like that Cmdr Rainer is growing as a person. I liked this character episode. It’s nice to flesh out characters a little, it’s what i liked a lot about Voyager and DS9 too
SMG definitely *killed it* as S5 Captain Burnham confronting her damaged S1 self. Like you, I appreciated Rayner's hard-won growth across this season -- even during this episode. Ariam's return & confrontation with her mortality made sad sense. Reno's quick, empathetic scenes with Rayner & Stamets once again marked her as Discovery's low-key MVP: genius engineer, tough fighter, everyone's crisis coach: "we're gonna get through this," "are you in a time loop, right now?"
It seems so weird (even if entirely reasonable) to see SMG stand for a person's name other than Sarah Michelle Gellar.
I suspect that "Calypso" was written with a previous version of the end of season 2 in mind, where the crew travels forward in time but the ship has to wait out the 930 years the long way. It didn't work out that way, and I don't think Zora was named until after the jump to the future in the final version, but it felt like that would've been the original plan for that story.
Considering Calypso is set farther ahead than those 930 years…unlikely that was ever the plan
@@Dave175 There's no indication of the date anywhere in it. Keep in mind that it was released between seasons 1 and 2, and very likely written before the plot of season 2 was finalized. Alex Kurtzman has said the Short Treks were designed to buy some time so they could "get the season right" and to connect with the season 2 story.
I agree with Calypso being the first draft of S3+, but I do think the Short Trek did mention Zora.
Liked all these comments bc anything is possible. Like Jessie, I’d like to know, but somehow guessing we never will…
@@thatotherted3555plus, the writers room got majorly shaken up halfway thru season 2. (Most visible by Cornwell suddenly going from S31 apologia to “always against it”). I definitely agree the original time travel plan wouldn’t have brought the ship with them.
Past Burnham fighting future Burnham got quite a chuckle out of me as a strong illustration of how confrontational, flawed and self hating she used to be. I immediately thought "this is so S1 Burnham!"
Normally I'd agree about gratuitous, unnecessary fight scenes but i actually think this served the character, as a metaphor of Burnham fighting herself, letting her worst tendencies getting in her way and how far she has come. Which made Raynor's speech at the end hit quite hard.
Truthfully this Season hasnt been great to me, but this episode was a well-written standout. It has a purpose and laser focused on it and not dealing with the season arc which I'm not a fan of.
My issue with the Burnham vs Burnham fight was that yes they had the same initial training, but Capt. Burnham should’ve learned some new moves over the five seasons to outmaneuver her past self. I did really enjoy the writer’s tactic of figuring out what would be the worst outcome in a situation, making the characters scramble, and then upping the calamity each encounter. Very satisfying. And even thought it was a small moment, I’m so happy they brought back Reece and we got to learn of him listening to radio signals with his grandma (and Reyce likes ships, I can tell them apart now).
Also, yeah this show deserves another 2 seasons if only to explain Kalypso, and get Aldis Hodge on an official show.
Note: 20:36 to 20:47 is fuzzy.
For someone who apparently spent her formative years on Vulcan, past-Michael sure was dumb.
If this new Burnham person was a shapeshifter don't you think she'd look more, y'know, like YOU? Different uniform, much longer hair, who exactly did you think she was trying to fool if she was pretending to be you? Where's the logic in that?
Also, she nerve-pinched you and then, when you were completely at her mercy, did *literally* *nothing* *else* to you at all. She didn't even lock you in a cupboard.
You think she might have been telling the truth about being a future version of yourself, Michael?
I definitely got some Calypso vibes from the 30 years in the future timeline. But I had kinda thought that Calypso was meant to have happened in one of the many timelines that Burnham's mom experienced during her time as the Red Angel... Like in the Calypso timeline they tried to hide Discovery from Control instead of going into the future, but that plan eventually doesn't work, so Burnham's mom resets it. Oh, it also wouldn't really work for the Discovery-A to be the one that's in the Calypso timeline would it? Who knows- haha. That was my favorite Short Trek, so I hope it's addressed at least somewhat, but I also understand if they leave it where it is.
I could never do Reno and Rayner together. The snark meter would overload and we would all die.
Also, I did not expect them to go into the future and reference the Short Trek Calypso with Aldis Hodge?
You are one of the few reviewers of Star Trek Discovery that I watch. You get the show and what they’re doing in showing the ups and downs of humanity and striving and struggling to be better, to do better. Thank you for your in depth analysis of the show. The one criticism about the show I had is that I wish I knew more about the bridge crew and I kind of got that in this episode. I really wanted to see Lorca as well when the jumped to season 1, heck I would have liked to see Ash Tyler too. I really wished this wasn’t the last season. I feel like DISCO should have gotten one more season to finish the series out to give it a proper send off.
This episode was so much better than I thought it would be at first! That's not to say that I did not think I would hate it, I enjoyed Shattered, and immediately got those vibes at the start of this episode. What I found unexpected and really interesting was how they developed Rayner in this episode. Loved that comment from Rayner about him and Stamets "showing that old dogs still know the best tricks" and then they just worked so well after that. That moment with Reno was nice too, I would love to see them become reluctant best friends, kinda like the Julian Bashir/Miles O'Brien friendship. I have not made up my mind about Moll and L'ak yet. Overall I really enjoyed watching this episode!
Star Trek is always great for the best kind of Competency P*rn! Thats mainly what I love about Discovery and the Original series the most!
There was an interview that was in the National Post (my local city paper was bought out by them, and a section is dedicated to NP. Anyways, it was with Sonequa Martin-Green, Mark Daniel was the interviewer, article published on April 16, 2024. 😀
___
She said: "We had wrapped. We thought we were going to see each other in eight months. Then they were like, 'You're not going back,'" Martin-Green, 39, told Post Media (owner of the NP) in a Zoom interview.
"(Showrunners) Alex Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise fought to get us some additional shooting. CBS and Paramount, they do treasure the show, and they agreed, but it was just a coda to wrap it up. We had little time and little pages. But I think people will be satisfied," she says. "They did a phenomenal job."
"We didn't know what we were doing in the beginning; we were on wobbly legs like when a horse is born," Martin-Green says, looking back. "We were breaking so many barriers and pushing the needle forward. We were going to dig out the path that we were ultimately going to take..."
With new characters added to the mix, Martin-Green concedes they had "a little bit of trouble getting started."
But by season 3, Martin-Green says the Toronto-shot Discovery established its own identity. "I'm so happy that we did that. We were able to create canon and still be connected (to the rest of the Star Trek series), but have our own vibe as well."
With the final episode in the can, Martin-Green says season 5 ends in a way that honours Discovery's legacy as a show that ushered a new era of Star Trek. "We went big... made it more fun and adventurous, but don't let the fun and adventure fool you, because we are going deep at the same time..."
Later this year, filming will kick off on the Discovery spinoff Star Trek Academy, which will shoot at the same Pinewood Toronto stages its predecessor did.
Martin-Green, who rose to prominence on The Walking Dead, says the experience on the show was life changing to her and her castmates.
"I've grown in every way that you can imagine from being Burnham. It changed me. It was so difficult, so thrilling at times, so impactful, so beautiful, so delightful. I praise God. It was necessary for my story, as Sonequa. But also for the entire Star Trek family. The way that it impacted us personally is how it will continue to impact those who take it in."
___
I'm thinking that Alex Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise asked CBS and Paramount to let them talk to Sonequa Martin-Green and the rest of the cast about the cancellation (and the added scenes they'd have to schedule in to wrap up the series) before the public announcement.
I cant believe you didnt catch that the temporal shield that the timebug uses is the same principle as the lower decks flashback where mariner and the beta shifters are growing old in a cave lol, i thought for sure you were gonna bring that up
I said in my last comment on your channel that Rayner was shut down. It was nice to have that confirmed [Spoiler] When he says he lost his family young also. It was such a quiet but powerful moment of convection, it was like a tacit acknowledgement of Rayners past having dictated his disconnection from others, and his previous captain style.
Agreed. That part was nice. I'm still wrestling with the way they are handling the character, some things I like some I don't.
Loved how similar the diagram of the time shenanigans in this episode were to the one in Prodigy.
Shaw is nothing like Rayner. Rayner actually puts the mission first, and is willing to learn. He's come a lot further in just a few episodes than Shaw did the entire season. Shaw never redeemed himself.
I think we can compare Shaw to Sisko (Shaw appears to have a prejudice against the Borg rooted in trauma), Jellico (known for his authoritarian command style), and Clancy (who similarly shot Picard down). Sisko still said he'd follow orders for the remainder of this particular first mission at DS9. He was curt with Picard, but only when specifically asked about how they met. He didn't volunteer any information about it, and just remained as polite as necessary, no more no less. He didn't deliberately let Picard know he was prejudiced against the Borg, just that he wanted his relationship with Picard to be purely professional. By contrast, Riker and Seven warned Picard about Shaw ahead of time, Seven said Shaw deadnamed her, and Shaw spent the entire dinner in a pissing contest with Picard, not even giving Picard a chance before entering dinner. Even Jellico cared what the crew thought of him, as he hung his kid's drawings on the wall, and asked Geordi for advice on dealing with Riker. The deadnaming alone should be a court martial offense. His crew also appear to work in fear. Even Lorca's crew at least felt comfortable expressing annoyance at his overt militarism on what was commissioned as a science vessel. Picard was a tad presumptuous asking for a course change, but surprise inspections are absolutely to be expected as captain, including such things as course changes. Compared to Picard's presumptuousness with CinC Clancy as a retired admiral, the back-in-service Admiral Picard was much more in line. But even Clancy clearly stated her objections before resorting to an F bomb as a last resort.
But there’s another comparison that we could make with Shaw right now: the cops that say their most important duty is to return home alive. This contrasts heavily with firefighters who regularly charge into fires, endangering their own lives to save others. There are certainly systemic biases amongst firefighters as well, but at least theoretically, they don’t prioritize their own lives over that of the people they’re there to save. Shaw’s only duty is to protect his crew, even if it means sacrificing rescue missions.
Instilling fear in his crew and deadnaming his first officer are tantamount to court martial, in my book. And I don’t think it surprises anyone that the source of much of his trauma is Wolf 359, as a grease monkey aboard the USS Constance with survivor’s guilt over being chosen for the one escape pod available. It’s a different scenario from what happened to Sisko, driven by Shaw’s place in the hierarchy. It’s a bit closer to Rios’, but even Rios was high enough up to have a relationship with his captain. There’s far less of a sense of control with Shaw. As is typical of the UFP of the 24th century, mental healthcare failed him. The character’s name is a reference to Shaw from Jaws, so this episode is his version of the story of the USS Indianapolis. He should not have been given a command. That said, he’s quite useful in this episode.
Using Seven's name in a recommendation letter, before the mission started, proved he knew better all season, but went out of his way to avoid using his chosen name. It's the opposite of redemption for Shaw.
If he had survived, the minimum that should happen would be a court martial, the removal from service pending counseling for PTSD, and a lengthy probationary period, if he even returned to service.
That martial sequence was a conversation of sorts.
It was the modern version of a "clip show" lol. Loved it, but part of the point was showcasing other times from the show.ship history. One thing they didn't directly address, but maybe they did? The Short Treks "Calypso" has DISCO "abandoned 1000 years in the future" ... and we saw DISCO abandoned about 1000 years after the original DISOC timeline. So, did Calypso take place in the alternate timeline they saw? Presumably it was a "false future" they were in, and SF won't be destroyed, but Calypso may have taken place in the timeline where SF was destroyed ...
Also, one interesting possibility ... I don't think Zora in the future was specific about who "the wrong hands" are, exactly. One interesting possibility might be that Star Fleet is "the wrong hands" and they destroy themselves, so the point of the season is to re-hide the tech, not research it ...
Also Also lol ... the original Calypso comment was written before I listened to the whole thing, but Ima leaving it lol
What I’ll say is that, as someone who does not look back on the early seasons of Discovery with nostalgia, this episode really worked for me, thanks to the focus on character. Rainer is there to be changed, but he brings out the best in the regulars, especially michael. I really like their interactions.
Almost halfthe season already gone. Dawn! I'll miss this show.
It was very similar to the Voyager episode, where seven has to travel between the different voyager episodes to prevent the planting of a bomb. And I mean that in a good way
Time may change me, but I can't trace time.
I loved Linus being all "Me seeing you is a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, isn't it? Well, I won't tell anyone if you don't."
And Michael just quietly having a realisation about Book, talking to both versions of him at once... there's got to be a reconciliation coming there. She could have weaseled out of saying "I love you", or talked around it, but to say it outright like that? She meant it.
Also L'ak got that poison on him, which says to me that he's under a ticking clock now.
I loved this episode! Its a good mix of action, humor, fun and character development. Raynor did piss me off in the beginning of this episode, but he kinda won me over in the end. I say kinda because someone in the comments pointed out that he now has Michael’s override code. I don’t trust him like that.
As for galaxy ending stakes, I don't think HQ being destroyed equates to galaxy ending stakes. Plus, that was going to be the outcome if they didn’t get out of that time lopp in time. They got out, so to me the stakes are pretty much what they have been - in the hands of wring hands, the tech can be detrimental, but in the right hands, great good can be done.
Finally, the fight scene between S1 Burnham and Capt Burnham was great! Fight scenes can be used for character development/ analysis, and that fight scene did that.
It makes sense that Calypso takes place in the timeline where the Brean get hold of the Progenitors device. Where the federation is destroyed.
A timeline which by the end of the season will be averted now they are aware of it
In this episode a part of me was hoping to get a cameo from Lorca but I guess that wouldn’t have fit the constraints of the story.
Todd Stashwick played a weird character in a series called Dharma and Greg. The characters name was Gunther.
10 internet points for catching the Enterprise references, but i’m docking 1 of them for using the shitty S3-4 version of the ENT theme.
I had the same “is she gonna say the thing?” moment btw
Yeah, WTF. It is firmly established that ENT s1-2 is the best of all Trek theme songs, and S3-4 is the worst!
I've been enjoying this season a lot so far and this episode was no exception. While I do ultimately feel that his inclusion wouldn't have added anything to the story, I was still hoping to see Lorca make a brief cameo with them constantly respawning back in the ready room, but it wasn't to be. Sure, I could have just checked the opening credits, but I always skip past it since it's bafflingly 8 actors and 22 producers every week, plus if there WAS a surprise, why ruin it?
Using the opportunity to give Airiam one last moment of heroism was really sweet, though. Very "Yesterday's Enterprise."
Oh yeah, this episode was kind alike "Shattered" from Voyager. Not one of my faves TBH but it holds a special place for me becuase SF Debris' review of the episode was half of the inspiration for what led me to create the Sevantha ship. Well, it's possible that there were Seven of Nine/Samantha Wildman shippers before that, but if any fics existed, they got lost in one of the great purges before AO3 became a thing.
Timeclone!
I was hoping to see Lorca when he got namedropped. Oh well.
Opening comment is correct. This is definitely the episode I spent too much time going "but where is Jett Reno?" whenever Jett was not on the screen. That's what they get for teasing the best character last episode and again this one. That's not even sarcasm or a joke, really, Jett is my favourite part of this show (I know I spoke glowingly of Wilson Cruz as Culber for the previous episode, but Jett just clicks on another level) and I am often sad there isn't more Jett Reno.
Okay, let's look at this episode more closely because this is one that really brought out mixed feelings for me (gonna type most - if not all - of this while I have this video paused after the intro because *I have thoughts*). First off, more than any other episode this season (of the 6/10 I've seen at this point, even if this is the video for #4), this feels like a final season episode. The way it's jumping between "eras" of the show, referencing various past events, it definitely has the retrospective vibe I'd expect from a penultimate episode, meant to remind us of where we've been and how far we've come since then before wrapping it all up. That said, I feel most of those were rather poorly used, more set dressing (or in the case of one, an excuse for an action scene to perk up people who'd gotten bored) than anything else.
The best use of the conceit is also one that highlights the biggest problem of Discovery for me: a lot of characters just aren't really characters, they're more a collection of trivia, at best. The whole point of this episode is to emphasize the connection of characters, but it just underscored for me that Airiam wasn't more than a glorified extra *until the episode where she dies*, that there isn't much more to Rhys than he likes ships (not even sure if that feels better than SNW's Ortegas being the "I fly the ship" girl because at least she's confident and secure in what she does, whereas he just has a hobby or interest), even Detmer and Owosekun (two of the [barely even qualifying to be called] supporting cast who get the biggest highlight over the series) barely amount to real characters here, as Burnham wins them over with a game of "know a single bit of trivia about each person" (it's a trope of this type of story, I get it, and we didn't want to drag it out too long, but it just feels like doing a captcha, ticking easy boxes, rather than actually treating them like real people). I know other people call out the "Stamets impersonating his gruff self from season 1" as a sign of self-awareness and a show of growth, but Stamets is a character that's never worked for me, and it's never felt like character growth to me so much as writers changing how they write a character, possibly in response to criticism about how a character grated for some people. That's how I feel most early character growth was handled on this show, and while it has vastly improved from season 3 on, the show stretches itself too much with recurring characters and a heavy focus on its plot, that anyone except for a few select characters get vastly left behind.
Back to Stamets, too: I know the tardigrade DNA's supposed to help with the spore drive and have other effects for Stamets, but "living outside of time" is not one I'd ever clocked and it just doesn't make sense to me. He's never seemed to "live outside time" in the past, the closest he's come was being in the mycelial network, which itself seemed to be outside time.* I know it's just their excuse for why Stamets would be a key part of this episode, but still seemed like a drastic change in character. Oh, speaking on Stamets, as well: this episode made me go "wow, Stamets has really been substantially sidelined this season, mostly just there to make a token technobabble comment after his exposition dump (that's supposed to be character emotion/motivation revealing) in the premiere". I don't mind that, as the character's never clicked for me, but for a character who used to be one of the most important of the series, he's really shrunk. Also, outside of that moment where he's impaled, it again felt like this episode did nothing with the time travel aspect for him: it didn't get him to challenge his beliefs, accept something about himself, no character work at all, which is a real disappointment. It doesn't really do that for anyone else except Rayner (the one person to whom the time travel plot point shouldn't even matter), which is a poor use of the conceit.
Finally, my other big issue: oh yay, it's a "the universe is doomed unless you ____" plot for the season. I'm so happy and excited. That's just what we needed: another "the fate of the universe is in your hands" story. Why can't Disco especially (and Picard, not so much Strange New Worlds or Lower Decks) just focus on somewhat smaller stakes. Maybe make them personal (like they've done for Book and pretty much no-one else this season and last, and haven't even really done for Burnham since season 2) rather than a dull "end of the world" dynamic? It's sad when The Federation/Klingon War is the lowest your stakes go.
Okay, my "post-episode, pre-video" thoughts out. Now to respond to what Jessie says. Hadn't clocked the parallels to Voyager's "Shattered", but that's mostly because I don't tend to think of Voyager episodes - it's a very apt comparison, and I agree it's a bit sad we didn't really see many characters return for this outside of...Airiam and Bryce, I guess? Yes, Sonequa Martin Green did a great job differentiating the two Burnhams.
Despite all my criticisms, this episode did something I think was really important (especially after the previous episode): it drilled down and focused on a particular story, which allowed them to do better on telling that story and focusing on characters, even if...well, they didn't utilize that quite as well as I'd've hoped.
*Right, Jessie addresses that and notes a time it did, which...I'll acknowledge, but I will say it was a plot point that never seemed to matter/exist outside of that time, so I'm going to stick to most of the criticism I had on this.
I do think the flashforward was their way of addressing that Short Trek, so that people will stop asking about that, etc., which would sadden me a bit.
Jessie is stuck in a Temporal loop of always enjoying time travel episodes
I loved this episode a lot! It was both funny and exciting while also having some interesting character beats and progressing Rayner's arc. The visualization of these time loops also reminded me of "Time Amok" from Prodigy, which was one of my favorite episodes from that show.
Good morning! I'm taking time out from watching "Face The Strange" for the fourth (?) time to watch your review! Love, love, LOVE this episode. And yep, I immediately thought of "Shattered" too! The only issue I have is something that someone said on UA-cam---was it you? You have a strong influence on me :) ---that we really didn't get to know the crew like we should. Ex: The character that died I don't remember! That would not have happened on any other Trek show (yes, even Enterprise :) ). i agree with you about the fight scene; I think they just wanted a Cap-vs.-Cap moment. I love Rayner because I *am* Rayner! Such a great dynamic in a great episode of a great show!!!! THANKS for this!!! I'm going right back to "Strange" the moment you are finished :)
(Also total high school flashbacks and idenifying much with Jet reno" "Ok, we can fix this, by he way any chance your peception is caught in a time loop af any kind??)
Anyone else thinks this is the Best disco episode ever?
Thanks for a great review.
I may have got this wrong about Calypso and Discovery season 2. But wasn't the original plan to send only Discovery to the future? Thus fulfilling Calypso. But because of the attack by control, the crew went as well, effectively stopping Calypso happening in that form at least.
I'm waiting for Raynar to meet Reno in the crew lounge sometime this season for that martini.... ;)
Timey Wimey Wibbly Wobbly
Absolutely loved this one.
Bringing key characters together, but also making connections with more of the crew
🖖
I was thinking of Calypso as well. It would have had a nice button on that random clip.
I love how this implies that Disco’s go to solution to make grumpy guys endearing to audiences and to the Disco crew is to do time loop scenarios haha 😆 this is starting to be Disco’s specialty
I'm just going to echo what Linus said to Michael, after seeing your thumbnail. Red is your color, Jessie.
This episode of Discovery was good. It was also very Star Trek.
I loved the character interactions.
I really like the addition of Rainer this season.
It’s not just that he is well acted and well written or the obvious arch of change and leaning; it’s that he is such a well realised character from the very beginning.
Yes, he is gruff and surly but we also shown that that is not all he is. He has layers and nuances that make him interesting and compelling.
He very much feels like Discovery’s Seven of Nine with the dynamic of challenging the rest of the crew and them challenging him back.
(Although I do have my biases. I freely admit to mildly swooning every time Callum Keith Rennie is on screen lol)
This season of Discovery might only be in its 4th episode but it already feels like its most confident season. The show feels like it knows its self now.
And Sonequa Martin Green is just utterly shining as Burnham.
It’s such a shame. Cancelled just when it hits its stride.
It’s just like what happened with Enterprise.
YES. This would have been the perfect payoff for Calypso. I was holding my breath when they arrived in that time. Hoping there's still a satisfying follow-up to that short trek.
This episode was okay, but it felt like filler, and a bit derivative of other Star Trek episodes that have time travel. My attention was wandering. The season plot wasn’t really advanced, and I am actually enjoying the artifact-quest plot, and liked the first few episodes. The bright spots were the comedy (for me, it’s always the comedy), such as Linus in the elevator, Stamets’ ways of clearing the room (spore leak, which he points out later is not a thing, or, “I’m grumpy so get out”) and anything that Reno says.
Season 1 Airiam was replaced because she was having allergic reactions to the makeup
I think this episode exactly show why Discovery is and has always been the BEST Star Trek show. Although it can have the problem of the mystery box that is disappointing once you finally open it, having continuity between the episodes allows for small changes and adjustments to happen to the characters over time in a very natural way. Having us go back to see where Burnham was originally and where she is now was a perfect way to illustrate the point that this show is about - Change. And Growth. Everything that came before is part of what has helped us reach where we are now. That has always been the point.
The people who have criticized this show for "Not being Star Trek" don't realize that a) going through this long process was the goal and b) thank god they did that because we now have this amazingly relevant gift before us that speaks directly to the heart of what Star Trek is truly supposed to be about.
This is like the reverse of the DC vs Marvel argument - where Marvel had multi-issue stories with continuity established over the entire range of books and DC had only single issue stories that all snapped-back to their original place when you get to the next issue.
Yes, you can do wilder more crazy stories if you can snap-back every time -- but then those stories have no meaning or relevance to anything. There's no stakes, nothing matters.
In one Episode McCoy is dying of an incurable disease and he decides to leave the Enterprise and get married - the next episode he's cured and back. In one Episode Kirk is in love with Edith Keeler and has to choose to let her die to save the future - next episode he's flirting with the Yeoman again. You cant do that kind of television anymore because no one would accept it. And that's a reason I don't enjoy Strange New Worlds as much because basically nothing matters.We know what happens to Uhuru, Spock and Pike but who cares about the rest of them?
😬
I do BECAUSE I don't know how it ends for them. There are things at stake.
@@paulfosten2094 They did an episode with Una that stated that her blood couldn't be mixed with human blood - then the very next episode she was taking a transfusion of plasma from Dr. M'benga.
She was also shown to have this amazing immunity system, but then the very next episode she was totally incapacitated - and it was like her super resilient system wasn't working (but they didn't even mention anything about it)
They established that Dr. M'Benga daughter was being held in the Sick Bay transporter buffer to preserve her life, but 2 episodes later all the systems in the sick bay were damaged - and all the transporters were rendered offline. They never mention anything about that being a danger to his daughter.
These are continuity breaks you get with episodic shows where they're written independently rather than in sequence. It breaks the immersion of being in a consistent world.
Gotta give Best of this Era to Lower Decks, writing is just leagues above Discovery IMO . DS9 is the best trek show to me ?
This might have been the best Discovery episode, ever.
I just love weird cool scifi time or spacial stuff
I'll probably leave a comment with my thoughts on the episode but I haaaaave to say YOUR OUTFIT IS SO FUCKING CUTE
This felt like a victory lap for the show. How was this written before they knew they were cancelled?!?
Also I love that we have a bit of extra lore regarding the Temporal War from Enterprise.
“Time to face the strange. Ch ch changes.”
Hey babe thanks for being there i love having another point of view to help me digest something I just watched thanks again❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ I don’t know if it’s your lighting, but you’re looking a little extra cute today😢😢😢😢😢
Loving that Sassy Lizard, although they probably take a bit of time getting up in the morning. Glad you got an Enterprise reference, thought of you when I heard that.
Will always love Discovery ❤
this was a really fun one!!
Goddammit, how do they dare to namedrop Lorca but not even a single second of a visual cameo? They gave me hope that it would get myself a little bit of Jason Isaacs just to take it away! 😭😭😭😭
Two comments:
1. It's Lieutenant Commander Gen Rhys that Rayner is brusque with not Lieutenant Commander R.A. Bryce.
2. I have to disagree on the "gratuitous" fight between past Burnham and present Burnham, I feel that the rawness of of Season One Burnham would lead her to be more pugilistic than later seasons Burnham and that this era of Burnham is much more distrustful than the older Burnham which might lead her to want to present a "Vulcan Hello" [using her Sus Manha (Vulcan Martial Arts)] to a future self that she is suspicious of.
To me this was the best episode of the series . Dialogue laughs at the end was kind of off but solid ep. I’ve had my issues with the writing of Discovery but I’m hopeful they will finish strong
Chief "Max, the "
Max "Not that again - I hate that"
Chief "Ok, the you know what is hanging in the you know what."
Great review as usual, Jessie! There's a track by a band named Therapy? called "Turn" Face the strange is a line from that track, and now I have the song looped ad infinitum in my head lol. I wonder if the title for this episode is a reference to that.
Also known from David Bowie's _Changes_
Raynar got Burnham's override code. That doesn't bode well
"That is the Federation's ass."
I love good time travel episode.
I really like time episodes and this is one of the better ones. High stakes, mystery to solve, mission to complete, meeting past selves and crews. Great recipe for an episode. This ranks high as one of the top 10 best Discovery episodes.
Jessie:"First no spoiler"
Spoiler avoider: 😊
Jessie:"Time travel"
Spoiler avoider: 😑
😁😁😁
love it !
The federation not existing isn't the same as "all life will end", not even close.
It is and it isn't. From an in world perspective there's certainly a big difference between the destruction of Starfleet and the destruction of the universe. From a storytelling perspective there's no Star Trek without Starfleet. But I think Jessie's point is, and I agree, that the threatlevel doesn't always have to be something that falls into the very highest threat level (and aim for that total destruction emotion in the viewer). They could tell this story about these characters finding meaning in their lives without a threat to the whole federation. In fact it might even be considered inspiring if people in the future were able to go on quests just for the sake of it (kind of like the concept of TOS and TNG?). There are other ways to get people emotionally invested than saying: EVERYBODY'S GONNA DIE. And if you're able to tell engaging stories about people coming together to deal with smaller mysteries and challenges, give them actual lives to be invested in beyond stumbling from crisis to crisis (f.ex. ep. 2 of this season managed to actually scare us that Saru might die) then it's actually more engaging if the stakes are raised, because there's a scale of challenges to compare it to.
I loved this episode. Like you, I am a huge fan of time travel stories. I probably misinterpreted this, but it seemed like Burnham said that Airiam will sacrifice herself to save the ship. Then everyone on the bridge said Airiam would never do that, but Airiam said she would. I thought sacrificing yourself for the greater good was a Starfleet thing. Wouldn't they all have done that? Also, I definitely don't understand this idea that Stamets is outside of time. What does that mean exactly?
I think the point was that she said Ariam gave up fighting. Where the point was that Ariam is capable of acknowledging fights that cannot be won, even when you don't want to believe it.
@@FeannaFey Thank you! That makes way more sense.
I was hoping that Season 1 Burnham would win, take over, and we'd get that one for the rest of the show. She's far less sentimental and much more logical.
(Also, yes I get so sick of time travel and mirror universe episodes, especially when they are current episodes being 'Not Dealing With Regular Universe.' I'm also hurting enough I will probably forget any spoilers if I cared, cause as far as I can tell, my 'lit crit' brain is entirely separate from my 'watch a movie brain.' As for Janeway, I forget where she was supposed to be from, bur if you asked me she was like Connecticut incarnate."Is she gonna give me a big hug and intellectual queries or gutshoot me with a shotgun slug,; "
(Anyway I noticed you have a new kittyfriend. Congrats. :) (Also I'm pausing hereI generally tend to feel like time travel and mirrror universe episodes are just Interrupting My Star Treksince even before they callled a dozen episodes a 'season.'
(Also here's me jst starting the episode and there's alll these characters breaking up for no apparent reason and I'm like, 'OK, that doesn't actuallly make any damn sense at all.' I think I just hate streaming. Why does everything have to be crammed into 'in betweenexplosions.' Why not let the characters breathe?
You are so awesome. Love you. LLAP 🖖
Engagement for the engagement god!
I share your frustration that this season is setting up yet another galaxy/Federation-ending threat; at this point I'm just numb to the constant high stakes. When I commented earlier that I was looking forward to this season exploring the ramifications of the Progenitors reveal in TNGs "The Chase", I meant how it would affect the galaxy culturally, with all these different races coming to terms with how they share a common ancestor, not just "we have to find the ancient civilization's big guns that pew real good". Ah well, the season isn't over yet, maybe it could still come up
That being said, I did enjoy the episode, it was a neat premise. I liked that they came up with a plausibly science-y sounding solution to getting past the time bug's time shield, which was itself an interesting protection mechanism
I think this season of Discovery has really found its groove. This season has been consistently enjoyable.
And yes, Rayner > Shaw.
20:36 what happened here?
I always find it funny (and sometimes frustrating) when you've watched a reviewer for long enough that you can call the things they will have a personal complaint about before watching thier review. In this case the idea of action being almost entirely unnecessary is a personality quirk of Jessie's.
Hannah Cheesman
Wasn't the gratuitous fight scene a nod to TOS?
Oh no, the entire way of life as we know it could be ended in this season of Disco, I never saw it as a possibility (since it's been the stakes over and over and over...)...
It was a great wibbly wobbly timey wimey episode.
Also loved Calypso.
But she should have said "Let's fly" at the end.
I totally agree
There are many episodes I haven't liked and have pretty much given up on Trek (obviously if I still watch there's some hope) , but this one was overall solid even if contrived (a "time bug" is a very Trek or Dr. Who form of tech magic). Agreed with your points as usual. Still don't like the characterization of Raynor - someone who is this "by the book" in terms o protocol would not openly step on the toes of the captain in front of the crew unless he's simply a total hypocrite/jerk/misogynist (maybe that's intended by the show).
But I agree that I liked the arc of character growth better than just telling him off in an "OK, Boomer" sort of way last episode. I do wonder if the writers (reportedly pretty young) are writing him in a certain way to tell off critics and represent critics of the show (many of whom may be Gen X and Boomers). I also wonder if there may be a generational divide among many fans in reaction to Raynor and other aspects. I'm Gen X, so I might respond differently than others would, and that's OK.
The prior episode pointed (intentionally or not) to where generational divides can make for toxicity (see Raynor and Tilly - that was not healthy on either of their parts).
I do think that generational divides are going to exist. People my age and older may identify in part with Raynor (the actor was born in 1960, I was later, Gen X). I can identify with traits I can picture others not liking, and consider that fair. But this is a highly exaggerated character. If this is going to be a good character study, great, that's enjoyable. But simply going the "OK, Boomer" route is a bit off-putting to some in the audience but I suspect whether that's off-putting depends on personal background to include age. Yes he grew in this episode but what does he really bring to the table that is of real value to the crew? What skills does he add? What can anyone learn from him? Other than pitying him, what's his role other than to stick his hand in a time field and irritate people and learn from the crew to be better? Put someone in a place to be pitied, where they serve very little purposefulness other than to be pitied, and often they will react negatively. Bringing someone in jus. to pity the person is a recipe for trouble if there's no real purpose served
Once again, I suspect the Disco writers are TROLLING the fans who have criticized the show’s lack of character development for half of the bridge crew, because in this episode, the fate of Discovery and the Federation hinged on Burnham knowing the bridge crew well enough and connecting with them to not only disregard Starfleet’s rules but to trust someone who committed mutiny and got her captain killed only a few weeks earlier.
It would’ve resonated emotionally if the audience had actually gotten to know the bridge crew in 5 seasons of Disco the way that this episode portrayed the characters as knowing each other. Imagine if Burnham had referenced insights about the bridge crew the audience had actually seen during Disco’s run, instead of spouting random personal facts. Once again, it’s the show writers defiantly throwing their faults in their critics’ faces by exploiting UNEARNED emotional familiarity with the characters. It doesn’t work!
Compare it to the “All Good Things” series finale of TNG, wherein Picard convinces the Farpoint-era Enterprise bridge crew to trust him: “All I can say is that although we have only been together for a short time, I know that you are the finest crew in the fleet. And I would trust each of you with my life. So, I am asking you for a leap of faith - and to trust me.” That speech worked because we had seen Picard connect with his bridge crew over 7 seasons, and we knew they would trust their Captain.
Disco hasn’t earned that, and I don’t believe if they had 7 seasons or the same total number of episodes as TNG, it still wouldn’t have mattered because the show writers chose NOT to develop half of the bridge characters. If the show had continued, it would just be one serialized 10-15 episode season arc after another, with only the 5 or so main cast members getting any character development.
More than anything, this felt like a FILLER EPISODE. It was Star Trek’s equivalent of a Bottle episode, just with time travel.
Finally, the choice to bring the BREEN back as the antagonists who apparently used Progenitor tech to destroy the Federation is so LAZY! The idea of the Breen “outbidding” all other bidders instead of just taking it by force seems ridiculous. Considering the L’ak and Moll used LATINUM as payment at the start of the episode, it obviously should’ve been the FERENGI!!!
Disco’s writers couldn’t even get that right!
You've read my mind, 😂Jessie ❤😊
The Federation? About to be destroyed? You mean a Thursday 😅
Never could get the hang of Thursdays.
👍
This might be an edgy opinion, but I think Rayner should have been forced to kill past Burnham in the episode. Yeah, one can argue that it doesn't fit with the arc the episode was trying to build towards - that he had to develop a working relationship with his captain built upon trust, and that reaching out to others with honesty and compassion works. However, we're essentially seeing Michael at her lowest, and it's within character for her at this time to react to any threat with deadly force. And of course, at this point it's a bubble universe (similar to Magic to Make the Sanest Man go Mad) meaning deaths here have no consequence.
The episode could have closed on a discussion where Rayner expressed regret that he had to kill past Michael, and his captain reassures him that she isn't the same person as she was back then, but she learned the lesson of trusting others soon afterwards - and that she knows he can do the same. I think that would be a far more poignant ending.
Wouldn’t that have prevented future Michael and future Discovery cease to exist?
@richardvinsen2385 No. They explained onscreen that the last time trip wouldn't become part of their reality if they squished the time bug in time. It was a dead-end timeline. Ariaim directly referenced this, noting they would all die if Michael was successful.
It’s interesting as an idea in isolation, given it’s a bubble universe, but given she’s a black woman I’m glad they didn’t do anything in that realm. Just for the modern viewer’s sensibility. Especially because they already killed Burnham to reset the time loop in season one. Now, as a solution for… Una to do to Pike in a time loop episode, say, it could work and be thought provoking.
Still like Shaw better. He was more of an a-hole and a lot funnier about it. I don't like timey wimey episodes because they often don't make much since and are full of plot holes, but I always like seeing Reno on screen whenever possible. I need a Trek show with just her doing snarky engineering shit all day.
Great content - the episode had its moment - Too busy - Not my favorite episode.......
Techno babble aside, I loved this episode! Rayner is finally realizing that he needs to tone it down and get to know and respect
the crew. I agree the fight scene between the two Burnham's went on for too long. I also really liked the humor in this episode.😃
The Breen really suck, don't they
what even are you?????
I'm not sure The Haunting of Deck 13 would be a fun episode, The Haunting of Deck 12 was awful (and that's coming from a Voyager fanboy)