Why Seven of Nine Actually Deserved Better
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- Опубліковано 8 тра 2024
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▶Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
01:56 - Re-introducing Seven of Nine
04:06 - Seven in Star Trek: Picard, Season 1
09:05 - Picard, Season 2
15:21 - Picard, Season 3
24:51 - Captain Seven of the USS Pander-prise
30:22 - Conclusion
31:51 - Shoutouts, Plugs, and Announcements
#startrek #videoessay #startrek #startrekvoyager #startrekpicard #sevenofnine - Розваги
![The Magic of [Problematic Fave]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjHfx7h4Ou8/mqdefault.jpg)
Star Trek Picard should have been about Picard and his dog solving cozy mysteries in the french countryside. That could have been lovely. Murder She Wrote, but with Bolians and stuff.
And as a spin-off series we could have gotten "Seven P.I." 😁
@@Andreas_42 Damn it, now I have a mental image of Jeri Ryan with a nanite-induced Tom Selleck moustache and CANNOT get it out of my head! 😂
Damit that would have been great. I much prefer smaller stories. Every show now is about a universe ending threat with everything thing on the line. Picard solving the murder of his barber would have been way better than sleeper agent borg and other terrible borg stories.
well shit now I want this
I never understood why they insisted on killing off or separating every single one of Seven's children from her. The killing of Icheb, her last remaining, felt so pointlessly cruel.
Yep.
It was mainly as a giant middle finger to the actor that originally played Icheb, Manu Intiraymi. He had said some pretty awful things a while back & basically got blacklisted, which is why they didn’t even use the same actor to play him in Picard for the death scene.
@@reidoha1066 Even if someone isn't desired to be a part of a show, are the people running it professionals, or high school gossip girls, that they'd write a scene like that?
@@Corbomite_Meatballs
It definitely looks unprofessional, especially in an episode which saw a gruesome murder, followed by 30 minutes of goofy comedy, followed by another gruesome murder.
A bizarre sandwich.
For the original 3 that left it was probably the practicalities of child actors, limited hours, complicated contracts yada yada, Icheb they had a bone to pick with the actor, but also like you already recast him though? So why 😢
When it came to Star Trek: Picard we ALL deserved better.
It's the reason I'm terrified of a stargate reboot is getting a stargate picard
I don't like the Titan being renamed the enterprise.
A good concept is the Titan name being reassigned to a similar ship to the STO Titan Class.
Also I would love Knightrider in space
i would raise a glass of kanar to that
@@danielduke832 I didn't like the idea that the creators put forward of the Titan-A being being some kind of refit of the Titan from the novel series.
Actually The 1st 2 seasons of Picard were more original than the 3rd….l personally liked the 1st season the best…..because it wasn’t just another reunion episode….
Imagine if, in Picard season 3, Seven was the object the villains were after rather than Jack Crusher Jr. Nobody I know grew to care much about the character of Picard's son, but we all knew and liked Seven and would have felt something much more dramatically valid if she were the one placed in that jeopardy.
I don’t think I ever got over the fact that Picard’s son was supposed to be like 23 years old.
I grew to care about Jack Picard-- Ed Speleer's a charmer. I wouldn't have been remotely interested in Seven being the center of the jeopardy, as she had never been one of my favorite characters. I don't mind her-- just don't particularly favor her.
@@richardvinsen2385My headcanon is he's already had his Inner Light experience living 15 years in the blink of an eye, not in his head but because tachyon blah blah. And he just doesn't talk about it, and everyone is polite about it but secretly wondering how this kid looks so old
I dunno. The idea that the intergalactic Borg, who have assimilated uncountable people from an unknown but staggering number of worlds, would care about any individual former Borg always feels forced to me.
But that wouldn't really be too hard to deal with because Seven can fight and take care of herself. She doesn't need anyone to be her knight in shining armor. So what story would we really get from that, other than Seven kicking ass and taking names? Not that that'd be a bad story.
I’d be on board with a Star Trek show with her as captain. As long as her first line is, “Computer, lights! Isn’t so much brighter in here? We’re on the flagship of the federation not a Borg cube!”
OUCH. That-ZINGER-has lots of mustard on it !!! LOL. But,it's so true,too many scenes were too dark,you couldn't make out anything in certain scenes.
The lighting choices in Picard s3 were ... questionable
Your sarcastic rage fan fiction has always been better than 100% of actual fan fiction. Never change Steve.
I write fanfic and I agree without reservation or hesitation.
That scene with Icheb was like something out of a slasher movie, Star Trek's no stranger to dark material but that moment felt like the show saying "Hey, think Star Trek is lame? Well how bout' this, this is dark and cool!".
I'd be much more interested in a Seven: Fenris Ranger series than whatever the hell "Legacy" would be.
The recent Firewall book is pretty good!
They even have a tagine ready: "They walk in the dark places no others will enter. They stand on the bridge and no one may pass. They stand between the darkness and the light, the candle and the star. *They live for the one, they die for the one."*
@@GSBarlev
captain_america_meme.gif
@@GSBarlevThat just slides off the tongue.
@@GSBarlev >giggle-snort< Wrong Rangers, my friend! Still... great reference! As a massive fan of the occasionally deeply flawed Babylon 5, I do love such callouts.
I stand firm in believing that a Seven of Rangers with warrior nun Romulan manboy would of been a way better series.
Go go seven of rangers...
*Guitar riffs intensify*
I would have liked to see that! 😊
I kind of agree, Seven was the first time I saw a character like me represented on screen, someone who was frustrated at the lack of consistency, feeling outside of a system they were trapped within and desperately wanting to be heard without always being misunderstood.
Sevens character meant a lot to me and I felt like the Picard show took some of that away by turning her into someone that gave in to the system, which sadly is what people like me have to do to limit our frustration with it. I guess the biggest sin the show made was by taking away the will and self determination of a character people like me desperately wanted to see flourish as they are not what the narrative needed from them.
I love the new Seven, but in a different way, almost like an entirely new character with different things to like about them. But I will always miss the Seven I saw and related to, but for me she is still there, I still have my "Seven moments" in life where I push back at a system that frustrates me, at least enough to not feel so disenfranchised by it.
*Maverick captain* is certainly a well they've been to rather frequently.
Still I guess Seven had to step up and take the helm eventually.
She was kinda Janeway's padawan in Voyager.
As an autistic woman, I feel similarly about her season 3 Picard character turn.
I agree with and feel all you shared. The frustration is real. I loved Sevens character since the very first and love the Fenris ranger direction.
"Star Trek: Oops! All Klingons", could be the type of idea that turns out to be fantastic. A total surprise. Something that you might not think you really want, and then BANG! You're watching a Klingon Downton Abbey.
Steve, Steve, Steve…
Molly O’Brien would *have to* be chief engineer, while Naomi Wildman would be science officer.
Put Icheb at operations and stick Molly’s brother Kirayoshi at tactical (“gong gong gong!”).
Sydney LaForge stays at helm.
Make Sara Yates (aka Sara Sisko, serving under her mother Kassidy’s maiden name to hide her identity) as the first officer.
Make Nog the captain (RIP Aron), and put them all on the Defiant.
Now, you got a great show.
CAPTAIN NOG IS EVERYTHING YES
So... Star Trek the *Next* Generation.
I'd watch this
Yup I’d watch!
@@OriginalJigen Star Trek: The Generation After That One You Liked
Seven didn’t live in a Borg commune teaching exborg to regain their individuality. They had Hugh for that…
Hugh should be Captain Seven's XO.
@@alanpennie8013 isn’t he dead though?
@@davidsamet6969
Death isn't very permanent in Star Trek.
@@alanpennie8013 Fair point, however it’s pretty hard to resurrect a character when there isn’t a show to resurrect them in.
“The Enterprise WTF” nearly spewed my coffee everywhere at that laughing.
Really good take I think.
Much as I enjoyed that and the SMH options too, I’d personally go for the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-FFS
4:37 I will forever regret sitting down to eat a pasta dinner while I watched the Seven/Icheb scene from PIC S1.
I wasn't really a fan of "Picard" as a whole, but I must admit, Jeri Ryan as Seven was a highlight, regardless of the script issues. Her presence on screen always brought a spark. I also appreciated seeing the legacy characters' children grown up, offering a sense of continuity and connection within the universe. It's a neat way to pass the torch-old, yet new.
That said, I really think they missed an opportunity by not including Worf’s son, Alexander. Considering the sexism and patriarchal nature of the Klingon Empire, Alexander’s character holds so much potential for a modern storyline. He’s not your typical Klingon, but he is Worf’s son, and Worf is a legendary figure, akin to a new Kahless. They should definitely revisit this angle in the future. Imagine Alexander, dealing with his own issues and experiences in Starfleet, navigating his path on whatever new ship features in the series, all while grappling with his resentment towards his father’s absence during his upbringing.
Seven of Nine was one of my favorite characters on Voyager. There was something about her that was very tragic. Her struggle to find her humanity and relate to the other characters who were never Borg was very interesting to me.
Now I want Knight Rider in space. Seven is captain of La Sirena with all those different holographic versions of Rios. Going to space farms and flipping space vans full of space bad guys. That'd be brilliant.
Seven is on the the show for no other reason than she’s a popular character. And Picard did their best to strip every part of what made the Seven character popular away. The Picard show was literally tragedy porn. Jeri even said she cried during the filming of the show because she had no idea how to even reconcile who this new Seven was in conjunction with the character that she played on Voyager.
Jeri Ryan was, and still is, a very attractive woman. But she definitely became one of the most compelling characters, along with the Doctor, in Voyager.
Her TV Guide interview was six paragraphs about her boobs and how they fit into her suit!
(No, really. Gwen de Marco's complaint was based on a real interview with Jeri Ryan.)
One Ex-Borg can make a difference. I wouldn't mind a new show with Seven at the helm. The one thing I can't get over is how the hell anyone would have thought that renaming the Titan-A, ostensibly already named that to honour Riker's ship, was the right thing to do when the ship had just made a name for itself. As much as there always needs to be an Enterprise, just rename one of the remaining Odysseys if you're not going to build a new flagship...
If one assumes that Starfleet is 1/10th the size of the US navy by population, there should be something like 160 000 starships. Starfleet should be so big there’s literally no way a person could know any significant number of officers or enlisted personnel. The fact that everyone seems to know everyone & that Starfleet seems like such a very small club populated by a handful of characters just doesn’t make sense given the size of the federation & the scope of the mission its officers say it has.
The way Picard started with a cast that was entirely outside Starfleet and progressively slotted them back in (Picard, Raffi and Rios in Season 2, Seven, Ro Laren and Jack in Season 3) really reminds me of what Robert Hewitt Wolfe (I think?) said about how the writers on TNG felt trapped and bored by the convention that everyone is Star Trek is in Starfleet, everyone wants to be in Starfleet, everyone has to be in Starfleet, so they decided that Wesley would go to the academy and hate it. You've got characters who actively reject Starfleet (see Jack emphasising that he isn't one to take orders) and then eventually sign up anyway. Not only is it a crushingly unimaginative thing to do with your characters, it just feels... really hard to imagine everyone wanting to do. You live in a post-scarcity utopia where you apparently don't need a job to live an ideal life, and you'd like to give that up to go back to taking orders all the time? Jack's whole life has been acting outside the laws of the Federation to help those in need, but he learns his absent father was a famous captain and now it's The Legacy all of a sudden?
Yes, yes, yes! At the end of Picard S1, that’s where I wanted to see this series go. Picard literally gets a new life, he can let go of whatever guilt he had about Data’s death, he saved one of Data’s “kids,” and he’s got a new crew on a new, non-Starfleet ship. He’s got history with Raffi, he doesn’t know Seven very well but we do, Jurati is our new science nerd, we have a freaking Romulan who isn’t an ice-cold jerk, and the guy driving the ship has holographic versions of himself with different accents popping up all over the ship.
That series as serialized adventures of this new, off the beaten path crew? That could have been AMAZING. Humor, interpersonal conflict, exploration, bridging the gap between the Federation and non-Federation worlds? SIGN ME UP.
But no, S2 had to be a weird mashup of Q, time travel, Picard’s mom, Picard’s astronaut ancestor, the f*cking Borg again, and Rios saying “screw the timeline, I found me a pretty girl, I’m staying behind!” (I have also found I just don’t enjoy when Trek is in our present day.)
The thing I liked about what they did with seven is the reality of the jaded and rage time-table when dealing childhood with trauma, especially if it’s cult related.
Often the darkness that comes from the experience gets turned inward and can manifest in high personal expectations with low e opinions of those around us. Trying to fix something that is assumed to be inherently broken.
When experience and life helps us learn differently that darkness doesn’t go away but turns outward with that understanding.
At this point it gets very very personal and the manifestations of the trauma vary greatly from person to person.
I myself was raised in one of those pseudo spiritual cults from back in the 80’s and 90’s. I was in junior high when it all blew up and I found myself suddenly in the “real world.” I went through similar patterns to Seven, at first diving hard and trying to learn as much as I could about how to live like everyone else. The thing I wanted most of all was to be accepted and, loved, and to be seen as useful to the people of this new part of my life.
My mid-to-late 20’s were. Colored very differently. Angrier, less concerned with anyone’s opinion but also very passionate about charity, philanthropy, and violent political activism (instill have scars on my knuckles from the ancillary fights outside of gay bars and gay rights protests.
My romantic relationships were very similar. I bonded with other similarly broken people but we never really could fill eachother’s voids and yes we often were both Oscar or Felix at any given moment.
It took years but eventually life evened out and my own sense of self became more stable. Now I’m a CPA and rather than violence, I aid various organizations by helping with book keeping, grant proposals, funding, etc. etc.
Aaaanyway, though I don’t disagree with every one of your points, Seven’s arch was very relatable and understandable.
When you spend your life being indoctrinated into toxic collectivism it’s difficult to find what you want and where you belong when that collective is gone. When the act of *wanting* is a sin the search itself is unimaginably difficult.
Thanks for sharing. You described well what I found compelling in Seven's arc. Personally, I think the writers did better by Seven than they did by literally any other character for _Picard._ That's just a *really low bar.*
As someone who runs a small business that provides technical assistance to a non-traditional lender focused on lifting up marginalized communities, thank you for what you do. Finding accounting folks who understand The Struggle at a visceral level is game changing for so many people. Knowing how to make your business work for you and help provide the assets you need to help others is the thing that set us on a successful path!
The Revolution (or whatever massive positive societal change looks like) may indeed come one day. But in the meantime, we have to live and thrive as best we can in the system we have. The breathing room and stability that comes with being able to do that lets us put real and actual energy into changing things for the better.
Your final paragraph hits really hard for me. I was raised in conservative, fundamentalist Christianity - which I realized as an adult actually ticks a lot of the boxes of a cult - and I spent a lot of time reciting things in church like “…l shall not want….” I literally had no idea HOW to want anything for myself. It was dangerous to want anything at all.
So, yeah, I agree that Seven’s struggling to overcome her deep physical and emotional trauma could result in her having a hard time finding herself on her own without her collective. It makes sense that she might eventually turn to another collective of sorts in the Federation. It would feel comfortable in a way.
I am wondering what I did to piss off the UA-cam gods. I’ve been making comments (not just in this channel) and then I’ve found them just GONE. No profanity, nothing too controversial, just responding to other comments. But they are getting deep sixed. This is very weird, and very disturbing to me.
Honestly, the only thing I liked about the Picard series was that it showed the utopian future of Roddenberry hadn't quite materialized -- humans were still violent and addicted sometimes. That seemed more realistic, because humans will never be perfect, nor will their society. I do wish they had done better by Seven.
Agree about humanity will never be perfect or society,plus,that would be a very boring tv series. Focusing on humanities attempt to better themselves despite their flaws,failings and short-comings is so much more compelling. Live Long and Prosper
Feels more like an extrapolation from TOS than TNG, which is pretty interesting in itself
@@kaitlyn__L I felt the same way! I mean, in the Organian episode, Kirk tells Spock that it's now time for them to "earn the salary Starfleet pays us," or words to that effect.
I'm a big fan of Star Trek:SOTG. (Security Officer That Guy). The episodes with Worf appearances are good and the ones with Tuvok and Odo are great. Talk about an Odd Couple with two Felixes.
As an outsider and in Starfleet
7of9 would be great as Captain of the USS Cerritos A
Should call the ex-Titan hero ship the "Nepo-Prize"!
Sydney La Forge gets a by from me as she was already a member of the Titan-A crew, but Jack Picard being on the Pander-Prise (to use Steve's excellent phrase) irritated me. This guy was literally an existential security risk five minutes ago, but sure, make him a senior member of staff. And Raffi's presence would've been a massive conflict-of-interest.
And yes, the Titan-A, a ship that had genuinely earned it's own legacy and place in Trek history, perhaps even a future spot at the fleet museum, having that name stripped away really p*ssed me off.
A Star Trek Legacy where Shaw lived and he and Seven as 1st officer working out their new working relations post-PIC S3 could've been fascinating to watch for both characters, and the Titan-A now having a reputation as the "Ship That Saved The Federation" could make for interesting conflict, (especially as the Constitution III seems like not the most potent of combat ships) and Syndey La Forge continuing to try and make her own name rather than being associated with her dad has potential.
But no, we're not allowed nice things. Instead Shaw got killed off and a nice little bow is tied around everything regardless of whether the plot string was finished. Although an episode where Seven meets up with Naomi Wildman could be interesting but it could only be a one-off, Naomi Wildman was hardly the most complex character at the best of times on Voyager.
Greetings from Germany!
In my opinion you overlook one major point Steve:
Seven has a lot of very good story in her character backpack and these stories could be told further in a possible future series with her as lead.
Such a series would have her struggling with her command or the authorities struggle with her as captain as a very good premise. There's drama in the air 🙂
Over all I can entertain the possibility of such a series.
The writers seriously underestimated how much and how immediately we all loved Captain Shaw. Having him still be with us for a future Seven of Nine show would have been great! He was hardly a 'good Nazi' that required a 'redemption death', Just a by the book and proactively disrespectful member of starfleet that acted as a great foil.. to us! (or at least me, a TNG mark!)
I'd be happier with a Legacy show if it had him as a lead.
I'm not all that fond of Jack.
Pity they killed off Elnor too.
Seriously. A Legacy series with the Titan still as the Titan with Shaw as Captain and Seven as First Officer would have been banger.
I have said it before and i will say it again until the powers that be make clear otherwise, seven of nine has resurrected the dead before. If she could bring neelix back from the dead, certainly she could bring back a character the fans actually like. Want seven to still be captain? Sure, promote shaw to commodore, but have him still be attached to the ship for whatever reason, say starfleet still not being 100% trusting of seven or even just having him along for the specific needs of their current mission. They can butt heads over the chain of command a la kirk and decker in the doomsday machine when they have disagreements. Y'know? It'd be a little fanwanky, but at least it would serve a positive end.
honestly pointing out the comparison of picard and seven both being assimilated... kinda want a spin of of seven leading a crew of ex borg, slowly being taught both how to be Starfleet, but how to be human (or insert species equivalent)
like i feel that's the obvious choice to progress her character from learning to be an individual to helping others be an individual, plus makes sense that that's a job Starfleet would give her given her unique experience of doing that
Just making some notes as I go:
- I never thought of Seven's inclusion as tapping into nostalgia-every _TNG_ character that was re-introduced had already had a decent enough conclusion to their arcs. There are only two characters across all of the TNG-era shows who I've ever felt _warranted_ revisiting, and those were Ezri Dax and Seven of Nine.
- I'd say less that Seven was "rescued" from the collective as *forcefully abducted.* It was _very clear_ for years on _VOY_ that she'd had no desire to leave the collective, and my reading of the numerous will-she-or-won't-she plots from the later seasons was that she *would have returned* if there was a way to do so without compromising the safety of the Voyager crew.
- Icheb's death was a deliberate (and petty) jab at actor Manu Intiraymi. I understand why (some) people at the time thought he deserved it, but I personally don't.
- Point of fact: it's inaccurate at 8:00 to say that _Picard's_ writers "made up" the Fenris Rangers, as they're pretty clearly *stolen whole-cloth* from _Babylon 5's_ Rangers ("We walk in the dark places no others will enter").
- I mostly agree with you about the disjointedness of _Picard's_ three seasons, but I viewed the implantless Seven in S02 as her "catching the car" moment-here she had been allowed to experience life as "Annika Hansen" and, by season's end, it allowed her to feel more comfortable in her own (Borg-augmented) skin. Without that arc, I don't think Shaw's deadnaming her in S03 would have been quite so egregious.
- Just to reinforce the point: I'm really glad you highlighted the importance (and present-day significance) of calling Seven by her chosen name.
- 23:00 Please stop giving the _Legacy_ writers ideas 🤦♂
- 23:30 Okay, but Hana Hatae is amazing, and I'd love for her to get a canon cameo on _something_
- 26:32 Does this mean you're not on board with a full series order for _Pog & Dar: Cop Landlords?_
- "Captain of the Enterprise isn't a trophy to be given out to our favorite characters" - shots fired, Captain Shelby!
- 29:10 Point of fact: Seven was _denied entry_ to Starfleet "despite Janeway's" lobbying (my headcanon was that Janeway actually pulled a Mulgrew and worked behind the scenes to keep her out)
- I actually disagree with you about Seven's character being better served as remaining an outsider. The *true arc* of _Picard_ was not that it was the redemption of any particular character, but the redemption of the *Federation itself,* from one of corrupt and cowardly admirals to one that truly upheld the ideals of exploration, peace and cooperation. The decision to make the Enterprise-G a tiny explorer ship (as opposed to the massive dreadnaughts of the _D_ and especially _F)_ was meant to signify that (right down to the ship's class being the "Constitution III"). Bottom line: it's not that Seven deserved to be a Federation captain. It's that the *Federation* finally deserved to have Seven as a captain.
Id watch Cop Landlords tomorrow if it was on P+
Interesting take on the last point, gonna think more about that :)
"[...] I'd say less that Seven was "rescued" from the collective as forcefully abducted. [...]" - This hits home hard. As a little kid she was taken by the Borg. The whole Voyager thing was basically Janeway forcing her into yet another life where she didn't get to choose. From the moment of being "abducted" it always seemed to me that Janeway wanted not for Seven to become an individual, but for Seven to become whatever individual Janeway wanted her to be. There's actually been some interesting, solid fanfics back in the day which leaned into such observations, buried among the flood of not-so-good and the downright mindless bdsm smut "fanfics" that popped up all over the internet back then.
@@EvilFookaire Yeah, although they kind of addressed that Seven used to be passive in regard to her own self exploration, and she really needed the bootkick the Doctor and Janeway to actually spend time developing a self besides work and standing in a regeneration alcove. The comment further on by @lifetheparty6195 kind of resonates with it. Seven is always busy trying to undue justice on the outside, or sacrificing / distancing herself from her friends, and pretty dismissive on self improvement.
Doesn't change the fact that there is an undertone of her surroundings taking charge of her life, and with Janeway's more 'authoritative traits', and the questionable moments where they had the Doctor indulge in fantasies about Seven when his dream routine got screwed up, only to dismiss this with comedic purposes before the episode reset, was not a great way to handle these tensions. Let alone when they forced Seven with a Chakotay relationship like some little kid playing with a barbie and ken doll, rubbing more salt in the wound that they where not planning to explore this aspect of re-integration further than cheap trailer-soundbits.
Man Jeri Ryan looks amazing! Does that woman age? They should have just made a Seven of Nine show.
it also disappoints me to see seven drinking the root beer and going starfleet. btw, in my headcanon, seven's decision to become a vigilante was influenced in part by her (stated but hardly shown) closeness with chakotay, former maquis. as sudden and random as it was, the relationship is technically canon and we don't know how long it lasted after endgame. great video as always, steve!
All relationships of Seven of Nine happened out of nowhere with characters she barely interacted at the very end of the shows.
"They just wanted to see her do what they wanted her to do."
I didn't watch Picard S2 and 3 and Voyagers allergy to almost any risk taking whatsoever and constant refusal to develop almost anything or anyone turned me off of it back in the 90's so I have no skin in this really. But this sentiment is exactly what you're saying too, just from another side. In Star Fleet, not in Star Fleet, maverick captain or lone ranger or whatever else it doesn't really matter; it just needed a plan and cohesive storytelling.
To be quite honest, this last season Picard corporate sellout show that Voyager was always accused of being and the irony of that season being produced by a guy who got his start as Rick Berman’s assistant and worked closely with Brannon Braga in many post-Trek projects is not lost on me.
In Star Trek Online, Naomi Wildman rises to the rank of Commander and is the Commanding Officer of Deep Space K-7.
I am so nervous to watch this one because I love Seven, I hate PIC, and the way they just shelve Seven in S3 sent me on a (now year long spiral) to fix it for them. But I don't post my fanfic bullshit on Tumblr so its okay 😅
Perhaps they can do a Seven-centric series where she's no longer captain of the Enterprise, nor even in Starfleet.
She found the boundaries too confining, and has rejoined/reformed the Fenris Rangers, and is following her own code once again.
I can’t even wrap my brain around how or why ST Picard was such a disaster - there’s so much wrong there, it’s hard to narrow it down. I loved Seven’s character from the moment she stepped on screen in voyager & Jeri Ryan is a flawless queen but they did her SO dirty :(
Concept: SCIS, or Starfleet Criminal Investigative Services. Your standard formula established by NCIS, but within the Trek universe. The team of Starfleet investigators that get called in when some crime (because there's always crime) includes someone within Starfleet. It's all Paramount, blend the two writing teams so that the investigatory drama is there, but still with respect to the wider Trek universe, and you've got a new project.
Seven as a Gibbs analogue would be hilarious, but her seemingly encyclopedic knowledge from being a Borg drone would kinda have her be more akin to Sherlock Holmes and able to solve cases almost always on her lonesome...or without the quirky lab tech figure, at least, due to seemingly being a science polymath as a result of her assimliaton and time as a drone.
That idea had crossed my mind as well. They would have a small starship to act as a mobile base to operate out of.🤓
It would have been great to show picard and seven meeting and discussing their borg experiences
Part of me wonders if the want for a Seven show comes from those of us who wanted a Sulu show and never got one.
Apparently by Picard 3 Starfleet Academy now has a fast-track program where cadets can go from freshmen to officers in just months! Either that or they have subspace courses.
Jack Crusher is the nepo baby we all accused Captain Archer and season 1 Mariner of being
@@KariIzumi1 I was thinking of Seven as well. Seven is not a Starfleet officer in either Voyager or Picard 1 & 2. Suddenly Season 3 comes along she is Commander / First Officer. Did she join the academy for four years after Voyager got home, graduated then quit Starfleet only to rejoin decades later? Either that or she was magically fast-tracked for the purposes of the story.
Ngl, it would've been heartwarming to se Naomi come back and have a moment with Seven
Now for Random Hank's Random Hot Take
1) justice for the Doctor. The thing with Chkotay was an ass pull. Her relationship with the Doctor was natural and just perfect. Also some Random Bias. Seven is my lady's favorite character, and she cosplayed as her once. Like Robert Picardo, Random Hank was also pre med in college before opting for a different career path
2) avenging Hugh did nothing. It would've been more impactful if the roles were switched: put down Hugh and avenge Icheb. He was a son to her after he was liberated from the collective
Yeah, but it's ST:Picard. They probably would have killed her off for shock value.
In the real world, do you talk about yourself in the third person?
@richardvinsen2385 not really, but it's fun. Random Hank recommends it
The actor who played Icheb deserved way better than the brief gory death. Icheb saved Voyager and Seven a number of times.
And then they just dropped the plot line: the continuing quest to save liberated borg from terrible ends and persecution.
Knight rider in space wouldve been so cool i think with 7 of 9 being a vigilante with the Fenris rangers.
A 7 Show with her ship could have her find a kid to pick up and travel the stars to protect the kid. Like the 7dorian.
You forgot Medical Officer Porthos, who also not only somehow survived all that time since ENT, but also joined Starfleet at some point for some reason.
"The Enterprise WTF?"
had me laughing for ages, had to go back to watch what I laughed over.
It was actually really important that Seven and Raffi stand around in that alley. They needed to help drag the main plot to a screeching halt so there could be some bonding between Rios and Theresa. Because why stop a 24th century cyborg running around 2024 Los Angeles when there's a romantic side plot to develop?
George Costanza would have no problem falling her Seven. Although, hed be pissed at the Borg for stealing that name
Damn, Seinfeld deep cut
I'm currently rewatching Voyager and had the very same thought that Seven deserved better just a couple of episodes ago. She's such a good character. Also, you know you're watching too much Voyager on a streaming service when you start reading Netflix as Neelix.
Great ep!
I like the virtual set, by the way. I liked the "Steve's house" setting fine too, but the move to this new one feels right somehow. Feels like it fits.
Can't wait for the Chief O'Brien episode, keep up the awesome work.
Captain Garak of the USS Enterprise!
I'd watch.
In fairness, we could assume that some cadets at Starfleet Academy had also been assimilated through the transporters, and I would have loved to have seen a certain veteran warhorse, Professor Miles O'Brian, lead the resistance on Earth with Keiko, Kirayoshi, and Molly all firing phasers together.
If there's one thing I have learned from all my tv watching, it's that it doesn't matter what elements you start your show with - the writers will either make it work or they won't. So even though Legacy would start off in a stupid and unearned place, it could be a good show in the right hands. It probably won't be. But it *could* be.
Excellent thoughts Steve. You know who also deserved better? Vadic and Ro too.
Crusher’s romantic lamp could have been an awesome choice for Mess Supervisor, like Nelix!
27:38 That era's version of the Enterprise - the flagship of the fleet that everyone knows about and gets all the cool new tech - is the Voyager-J.
Not to flog a dead horse, but it is really nice that a season as bad as PCD S3 (worst season of Trek in my opinion) was well acted, well paced, well directed and was a delight to both the eyes and the ears.
It's just that the story was shite.
Yeah, it is kind of what you get when they are willing to fork out actual money, hire actual talent and try to allocate the budget for an actual thought out plan, while still holding deep to the premise of 'make low effort slob to fill out a Star Trek franchise corps for nostalgia reasons'.
Instead of 'I have a good story idea, there is money in there' it became 'this franchise has money, contrive a story in there' that has taken to much presence in the 'write by committee' practice of nowadays. We've seen this happen before in cinema and TV history, I hope more creative minds will step up and try to do something interesting once again.
Apparently there were plans for her to appear at Riker and Troi's wedding in nemesis, but they felt it wouldn't make sense for her to be there
I read that Jeri herself declined to appear for that reason, regardless of what "they" felt.
@@speeta Good for her!
@@speeta right, but I read they decided not to include her in the film
"Star Trek: You Remember!" made me gut laugh.
Knight Rider in space with Seven and a sentient AI ship would actualy work pretty well as a follow on from Picard Season 1 considering her relationship with the Doctor on Voyager, and the AI rights stuff touched on in Picard Season 1
Ngl when he was proposing the next episode
I couldn’t decide if he was going to land on kim or obrien
I think in theory I was on board with the Fenris Ranger thing for Seven, but in practise it was one of the hallmarks of making the show overall incredibly grimdark. I think I still prefer her as the no-nonsense science badass from Voyager, but if they had not turned her into a vengeful murderer, not killed off Icheb in a needlessly brutal way and made her out to be exactly what you presented, someone who recognised that the Federation has it's limits, she would have been Great. And the proof of that lies within the character of Booker from Disco Seasons 3-5. Booker is such a cool character and very much playing in that kind of "I help the people who the Federation doesn't" kind of space.
The way things were going for most of PCD S3, I was expecting Seven to ultimately decide that Starfleet's rigid traditional command structure wasn't for her, and end up taking off to work in Starfleet Intelligence with Worf and Raffi in the end. That would have been a nice middle ground between staying in the Fenris Rangers versus... what actually happened.
Still, none of Picard's three seasons did Seven even half as dirty as they did to my poor, beautiful, beloved Enterprise-F. I have to believe that this "Titanprise-G" nonsense is just a temporary thing while the F spends a year or so undergoing a big big systems overhaul and fancy Yorktown-class refit... Otherwise, thank goodness I still have Star Trek Online.
Would love a 7 series.
The first season seemed planned, the second felt rushed, just trying to not die during the pandemic, and the third, limping along from the pandemic, was rushed to a conclusion.
I agree that 7 of 9 didn't get a fair shake. She's a great character.
I'm still glad they made Picard. Better some Star Trek than no Star Trek.
In some ways, I'd be super happy if they just let loose the rights to the universe so that no studio has sole control of the ability to make canon shows. Then we might see the IDIC in show ideas that the universe, in some ways, promises.
Agreed. Bottomline: better some star trek than no star trek. Loved seeing Seven again. Still beautiful as ever!
seven of nine, space ranger! a mix between knight rider and firefly? like, seeing her struggle with the injustice of whatever, doing what she can, and in the first episode picking up some motely crew to do what needs to be done, leading up at the end of season 1 joining the rangers?
six seasons and a movie, please!
If it makes you feel any better, I am now also salty we're never going to get Knight Rider in Space.
This really touches upon how to write good and bad Star Trek for me, good Star Trek is write a good story, with good social commentary then set it in the Star Trek universe to make it more easily digestible and flush it out with interesting characters. That for me was the essence of what made DS9 great. But bad trek comes at that from the other direction, take some established good characters, contrive a story and shoehorn in some social commentary where it doesn’t belong.
Steve brings up something here that I think is important and I wish they'd go even a step further: Not only is being Captain of the Enterprise-__. not a trophy for a favourite character to win, serving in Starfleet should not be the only, or even the most important thing Federation people do. We've now seen a little of how Lower Decks people live, what about people outside of Starfleet? Of course we do see them here and there. Chief O'Brien's assignment to infiltrate the Orion Syndicate and then Ezri Dax's sibling involving the family business with the Syndicate are interesting episodes to me in part because we get a tiny taste of people whose lives don't directly revolve around being in Starfleet. I think it would be quite interesting to see a series set in the Trek universe that entered on civilians. Of course, Starfleet would naturally be in he background. Sarek disfavoured Spock joining Starfleet. Clearly there is life on Vulcan outside of Starfleet. What about Earth? What about Betazed? What about Bajor after DS9? Or Denobula? The Denobulans might make a great Federation species to focus such a show on. Already in the 22n'd century they were involved in exchange programs with Earth, and, I believe, Vulcan. With what other planets? Phlox's quirks and his optimism were great and his wife that we met was interesting. Yes, the Denobulans might make a great species to base a non-Starfleet-centred series on and show their interactions with others. And don't ignore Starfleet! It is a major force for exploration and scientific discovery, as well as being the Federation's military (despite of what some say). Some episodes could involve characters spending some time taking specific journeys on a starship for scientific, diplomatic, or other reasons and thus having some interaction with Starfleet personnel, but I would envision those as being occasional and not involving the Starship ending up in any sort of confrontation. Some episodes might involve Denobulans or others trying to work together with Romulan civilians, or having trouble with Ferengi or working with Klingons. And of course, I'm not at all suggesting that Terrans should not play a major role. I take for granted that Humans would play a major role, given the model we have in ENT of Phlox's relationship with Dr. Lucas. Seeing how the values championed by Starfleet play out in every day civilian life could be very interesting.
You know, ST: Picard gets a lot of shit for just being nostalgia bait that retreads old ground, but people complaining about that always fail to acknowledge the way it drastically changed how Star Trek traditionally approached creating its shows. It was such a huge break from tradition to have the first season also be the best season.
😂
While I disagree on some points (I am ALL for the sugary sweet fan service of the Enterprise D and captain of the G), I greatly appreciate your well thought out criticisms and takes on how 7 was handled.
I think the constant deadnaming was part of a plot contrivance to sniff out the super changelings: Oh look, the only officer on this ship who doesn’t deadname me just deadnamed me; she must be a changeling!
1. Here’s my vote for literally anything that can accurately be described as Knight Rider in Space.
2. Do you really believe those clamoring for ST: Legacy are wishing for something *equally* as fatuous as the catsuit-slashfic of the late 90’s?
I would have been cool with a Legacy series if Shaw had lived, but TBH the real missed opportunity was to have set up a Fenris Rangers series built around Seven. Show us a part of that universe we haven't seen before with basically limitless storytelling opportunity.
swear to god I posted that before you said it
I wonder how Chakotay is doing. Maybe Admiral Janeway could go back in time and prevent Admiral Janeway from going back in time...keeping Voyager in the Delta Quadrant after all.
I would have loved a Seven-focused Fenris Rangers show.
I'm generally of the mind that there are no bad ideas, only bad writers. A much better writing staff could've made Seven making Captain feel satisfying.
Provided that she was Captain of the Titan-A. Like, I'm not anti-fan service. I love Lower Decks after all, but even I have my limits, and the Enterprise-G was my red line. I wasn't excited for the idea of Star Trek Legacy, the talk of which had started as early as Episode 8, but I would've been willing to give it a chance. Until they renamed the ship, and put Jack on the crew, and that's when I went "f*ck it, I'm out."
Well I'm a HUGE Seven Of Nine fan so I do hope to see ST Legacy>
I do share your opinion of the 'crew' though:
"'Jeri Ryan as Capt Seven, Michelle Hurd as Cmdr Musiker, Jeffrey Combs as Dr Philip Bryce the 3rd, Spot the cat as Lt Cmdr Spot Soong, Jeffrey Combs as Dominion ambassador Weyoun2.A, Ed Speleers as Jack Crusher , Jeffrey Combs as Subcommander Satok the Romulan exchange officer, and Garrett Wang as Ensign Kim...
No, they would have to get a good cast of characters and not overly rely of namedrop characters.
I like the idea of a standalone Seven series, but I don't want it to just be a female Kirk or something. I want her to try to fit into the starfleet thing for a while and then come up against a situation where she feels like starfleet is wrong and she basically becomes a maquis defector with a new name perhaps. So we get to see the inevitable course a starfleet career would go for Seven of Nine and then we get a suitable storyline for her that makes use of her previous experiences before Picard season 1 and all that. I don't think a series where she just stays in starfleet and ends up chafing about it but in the end not leaving starfleet would do well. But I think her story needs some conclusion to the idea of her being a good starfleet officer. She needs to see that through and then get onto her true destiny as an outsider with a heart of gold.
I mostly agree with you, and I particularly am pissed off they renamed the Titan. Sure, give us more Trek with Captain Seven, but keep the damned Titan - I think it earned it!
Until right now, I never knew how much I needed "Knight Rider in Space".
Picard Season 2 had a lot of interesting ideas... but were mishandled.
Great review of Seven's character throughout all her Star Trek appearances.
Imagine a world where Shaw lived and we got to see Seven and Shaw working together in command of the Titan. What a wonderful world that would be.
23:21 But, did he see a Koala? The Koala part is important.
As a whole, I very much agree. My previous comment should emphasise that they COULD make it work - not that it will naturally work. Something that really built on Jeri Ryan's past performances, all the way back to VOY, and Seven-of-Nine's experiences, and some creative NEW story telling with new challenges, would be good. And while I mentioned Harry Kim, they can't have him just to have him. There would have to be a really good reason for him to receive such an assignment. First of all, we've never seen 2 ships sent out on one mission, like my idea suggests. Why would Starfleet do that and why would Harry Kim be assigned to captain the other ship? Those questions would need to be thoroughly thought through for the idea to be anything other than a disaster.
I wish Jeri Ryan's other show, Boston Public, would get a release. Besides the low quality Tivo rips I have, it's lost media. One of my favorite shows of all time.
RIVETING - man, as much as I tend to disagree with you on Picard, that outburst was pure gold. Much love, my friend.
When I first saw Seven in the leather jacket in season 1, I wasn't exactly picturing Knight Rider in space, I was honestly expecting her to get a more Firefly kind of treatment. Which would have been ok. But Knight Rider in space, you might be on to something Steve. Let's do that with Robert Picardo's Doctor. Imagine the Doctor arguing with a laid back ship's computer (I'm just kidding or am I...)
In case it's unclear, I am kidding. I didn't feel like leaving that interpretation up to chance
Jerry's portrayal of Seven in Voyager is the ultimate space bitch attitude, and I love it! She does establish strong emotional bonds with captain Janeway, Tuvok and the Doctor. She has all of Picard's knowledge of star fleet up to his assimilation. I always would think she would be captain of like the Voyager-B
Hey folks, I agree. Seven did deserve better. It's not fun watching your friend lose their business because of their associations.
Thank you for saying it. I also thought the alternate Seven/Annika of Picard S2 was astonishing enough to carry on from there. And the Ranger Cube scenes were just plain gruesome. What if in S3 she was still fully human and not augmented? Wouldn't that solve all her Ex-Borg problems with Starfleet? Next - Ro Laren in S3 was poorly served as well.
Getting this recommended the day after having this exact conversation with my roomie yesterday is quite entertaining to me.
Small world, big algorithm, lol.
So many of the crew of Enterprise are so unlikely as to be ridiculous. Worf and Troi both come from the Noble Classes of their respective homeworlds. Previous interpersonal relationships that should preclude serving together alongside one another in an organization as large as Starfleet don’t seem to factor in (Picard/Crusher)(Riker/Troi). Allowing a literal child to pilot the Fleet’s flagship it ridiculous.
Interested in your "O'brien must suffer-take". For sure Worf will get special attention. He had to learn to fight his Klingon instincts all on his own as a child, developed for himself a twisted high standard of Klingon culture that clashed heavily when interacting with Klingon society. Suffers for it deeply, looses all of his family members, and for a time must have believed he himself is the source of so much pain to his closest family, while at the same time not being open to share with his closest friends.