Trans Narcissism: A Detrans Story | with Ray Williams
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- Опубліковано 15 лют 2024
- Exploring autogynephilia, transgenderism, and continental philosophy with @RayAlexWilliams
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#autogynephilia #narcissism #detransition
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I wondered when you'd have him on. The fact he had a pulmonary embolism from the estrogen is a point to be stressed. Wrong sex hormones are dangerous.
Even as a woman I’ve had bad experiences with hormones, causing me to have bad acne, cramps, mood swings, and a host of other issues. The results of long term birth control use are finally being talked about, where they weren’t able to be talked about before due to the political pressures of feminist groups who considered the pill to be such a huge part of the women’s movement that any attempt to have a conversation about the negative impacts was considered anti feminist. I feel that the same thing has happened with the discourse around hormones for trans people, where we haven’t been allowed to discuss the negative long term health implications due to the politics surrounding these things. I’ve also come to realize that a large push behind politicizing these medications has come from the pharmaceutical industry.
Well, as I understand it, males have estrogen naturally occurring but the levels are way above what they should be with transitioning thus the side effects.
Did you know that when menopausal women used Premarin it cost 17.00 per month. Now that men use it, it costs 6,500.00 per month. The public tittie ( no pun intended) pays for it in the usa. Women stopped using it because it was killing us, but it is perfectly fine for Not-women to use it.
Are we sure it wasn’t the Covid Vaccine?
True, especially long term! I've never gone on birth control pills because I want my estrogen levels to vary naturally with my innate monthly cycle, not synthetically. But even worse, for someone with a male body to take it long term. . . there are going to be a lot of class action lawsuits in the future. . .
I wonder if anyone will ever talk about parents of adult transitioners and what we go through. We are often vilified and shut out of formerly loving kids lives. Painful and very confusing. Particularly if we have not been rejecting of them
Look up Miriam Grossman. She is a psychiatrist who speaks about this.
I am experiencing this as a sister of a trans person! My sibling has a lot of deeply rooted emotional issues and traumas, resulting in episodes that are well beyond normal periods of depression and anxiety. I have been called transphobic, behind my back in a smear campaign to my parents no less, because I have suggested that they take transition very slowly and seek the support of a therapist to address their underlying issues before they consider medical procedures.
The trans community is VERY known for saying things like, "only we can understand you, we are your new family now" or "hate your parent" and of course "hate woman". That is very pushed by the community!
@juliekring7574 join some womens groups and parents groups of GC women
Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad talk about this on their podcast: 'Gender - A Wider Lens'. 'Genspect', the organisation whose members are therapists supporting distressed children to explore their distress and underlying or preexisting issues without medical intervention. They also support families to navigate the pain and complexity of the changing family relationships and dynamics, including support but not affirming 'gender identity'.
I don’t know if Ray will touch on this (I’m at the half hour mark), but it’s occurred to me that the trans explosion amongst teens may be related to fears and anxieties over “perception”. He mentioned that “passing” is the biggest concern of any trans individual. Although I’ve never suffered from gender dysphoria, I’ve experienced moderate-to-severe anxiety and insecurity over my appearance almost all my life. I’ve chased the dream of looking more “womanly” ever since I was able to consciously identify myself as a woman. The thought that I might be considered “less” of a woman because of my looks has always caused me immense pain. It takes conscious effort for me to overcome these anxieties; to remind myself that being a woman isn’t skin deep, like some people want to believe - it’s an intrinsic quality that cannot be stripped from you. It’s painful, and burdensome at times. But it’s what you are. Men who attempt to “pass” as a woman are so obsessed with it because you can’t directly control how other people see and treat you. You can try to influence it, but ultimately, they decide for themselves what they think of you. They think that if they can get someone to think they are a woman, this is proof of womanhood. But all it signifies is that they can change their body to conform to a person’s image of femininity - which, of course, doesn’t equate to actually being a woman. They don't want to be known as what they are; they want to be known as the delusional self that they've created for themselves.
Therein lies the rub: if all you need to do to be a woman is to look and act like the stereotype, then actual women will lose their womanhood status just because they don't follow that stereotype.
This so exactly what it is.
And if once transitioned they’re not ideal as the opposite gender, it doesn’t hurt as much as it doesn’t mean they’re inherently flawed and not the “ideal” they thought they should be in the body they were born into because they can never attain the ideal in the body the changed into -therefore they’re not a failure.
I don’t know about how this relates to AGP though - I think that’s entirely different
‘They don’t want to be known as what they are’
Do you think that in itself is closer to the definition of ‘transphobia’ than say your women’s rights activists, who say ‘present how you like bug you are not actually a woman and your condition should not negate women’s rights to female only spaces and sports?
Because a trans identified man doesn’t want to be called trans, he wants to be called woman
Amen to all that. My thoughts precisely. I hope you’ve reconciled more with being the woman you are already enough of (just by being born - lol) - I have had similar experiences and getting older (and off hormonal birth control, but that’s another topic) has seriously soothed some of that dis-/unease in my self as female and as a real woman. Much love ❤
The explosion in teens and particularly young girls is the new “anorexia nervosa”. The “grunge” look moved through the fashion industry and millions of young women were striving to be heroin chic, starving themselves & vomiting..when the “look” moved out of the mainstream the raging numbers declined. The process of starving themselves was a form of control over their lives. It’s the same thing.
Good of Benjamin to differentiate between "internal misandry" and "internal androphobia" and the sensitivity prevelant amongst some trans identifying agp men. Rays response was really important to hear on this as well. Especially how it was not possible to point out positive qualities of masculinity in the academic environment.
Sounds like what he's describing is addiction-- an addiction that the medical industry indulges. What an excellent guest! Smart, insightful guy.
actually the Bible calls them strongholds. Satan cleverly repackages every truth of God and has his own word (softens it up) for what God calls sin. God says its adultery Satan calls it an affair... God says its drunkenness, Satan calls it a disease. God says sex outside of marriage ( God ordained marriage between a man and a woman, Satan has a counterfeit marriage doesn't he? ) is fornication, Satan calls it a fling or living together. That is all he can do is pervert and make counterfeits. And look at this Satan is making counterfeit men and women completely going against the LORD who made us male or female, knitting us together in our mothers womb. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. Satan is the author of confusion and comes only to kill, steal, and destroy ! He is a master deceiver and hates us because we are made in Gods image.. I could go on but I think you get the point ! Blessings !
I went through ALLL the same stuff trans people did but with drug abuse and issues with my external environment. Hating it all and what not, not hating myself though. Of course I was always uncomfortable with myself, but drugs allowed me to find my identity. I could have created a different one like a church going identity, but I went the hippy freedom drug route. VERY closely aligned with leftism for years until I hit a brick wall and had to adjust course.
I still struggle so much but Ive become comfortable being uncomfortable. Or at least I force myself anyways.
My ex was an agp trans woman, i completely agree that internalized misandry is a HUGE componant
I was a weaker more nerdy/artistic guy and hated being around macho (well really machismo) men. At least growing up.
Now I understand where some of the “toxicity” comes from and why. Now I laugh at fake macho men.
But it made me want to not be like them. Not be a WOMAN but I purposefully distanced myself.
Me as a woman , I had the same experience with femininity. I always identified more as a a human than as a woman. I always felt that it irrelevant for me what sex I am, that it is just a coincidence, that I am a woman. And if I happened to be a man, I would have no problem with it either. I always wondered why is it such a problem for some people.
Yeah, me too, but we're lucky to live in a time and place that allows us the luxury of not really caring. For most of history, biology WAS destiny.
I cant believe these "academics" are talking about all this stuff all day. What a waste of energy. With all the problems in the world they could be solving.
I’m sure you’ll care if you’re ever wrongfully imprisoned & placed in a women’s prison to serve your time…Or maybe you’d be just as ok amongst male prisoners. The boundary dissolving bs should be called out. Imagine being a disabled woman coerced to accept same-sex intimate care from a trans-identified male b/c his feelings trump yours. Why should a vulnerable woman be put at more risk by having a male carer? Ever heard about catatonic comatose women falling pregnant by predators? If you don't have the capacity to recognize how misogynistic and harmful gender ideology is, how can you combat it and protect the rights of Women and girls? How can you protect children if you aren’t training them to sense the red flags?
This is such an alien concept to me.
To feel "more human than man"
Same here. I'd be perfectly happy as a woman but I'm also perfectly happy being a man, I'm just me.
Detrans stories are the most important pieces of information we need to keep women safe in the face of the new misogyny. Thank you for this important work. The autism hyperfocus is unmistakable.
The fact that misandry is a relevant, non-trivial, factor in these things should not need to be pointed out at this point. Why do you insist on being so myopic? Do you think men and boys suffering in the way that Ray Williams describes are benefiting from their complex of self-loathing? How is a psychological condition that can literally culminate in the decision to remove one's male genitals of primary, and implicitly exclusive, harm to women and girls?
Transbians are a class of predators, it requires studying. Buffalo Bills, the whole lot. It isn’t really about self-loathing IT’S A FETISH and women have been harmed by them, and many of them say absolutely shocking things. Even someone like Dylan Mulvaney who is a gay man, just seems like he is making fun of women in what he does. I do recognize that we live in a society that beats men down and hates them, so it is worth discussing with regards to this topic, surely it’s influencing some people, but a lot of these AGP types seem extremely narcissistic or have autism, and almost all have a porn problem.
As well, we who divorced suddenly crossdressing men know that they actually never "pass." There are many tells: the voice is false, the fake shimmy to prove joint flexibility, the shoulder/hip ratio, size of hands and feet, Adam's apple, brows, head size, height. Women have quite sophisticated observation skills for self-protection. The self-deception of "passing" should be debunked as gently and honestly as possible.
@@lancewalker2595 Feminists gonna feminist.
@@lancewalker2595 If becomes harmful to women and girls when they insist on invading female only spaces.
He's an evolving story so bring him back every year or so.
I feel like this "Luciferian will" causes deep pain because it doesn't have limits. I want to become more and more female, when it could never be so in the first place. It hurts deeply. Also Ray, thank you so so much for being so vulnerable and open. You're opening yourself up to people, which is frightening, but you're doing it to make the world a better place.
What is fascinating is how when men who previously transitioned, (medically or not,) return to recognizing and embracing the natural masculine that exists in all males, the natural feminine within is integrated into the whole person. There is no need to reject which sex one naturally is nor is their any need to aquire any affectation or superficial representation of the opposite sex. They become much more authentically their whole selves.
@@Gingerblaze - Completely agreed with this. Very profound
@@GingerblazeI think what you are saying is there is no ideal feminine or masculine. That is that men and women actually have more in common than what separates us.
The flesh is never satisfied that is why there is no limits because of trying to come to that place of peace and satisfaction which only comes through Jesus Christ who is the Prince of Peace and the God of peace. In Him we are complete. The devil is a liar and comes only to kill, steal, and destroy our lives that are created by God. The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Came for the cats playing at the start, stayed for the calm-versants. Thank you to both!
I like Ray. He has a good head on his shoulders and owns his life. Thank you Ray! 🐈
*bonk, bonk, bonk* *achoo* 😁
@@SydneyBristow0788 ... OMG 🙀you are completely BoNkNaNnAs 🍌... have gone bOnKrAzEe😵💫... bordering on BoNmOnKeY🐒and definitely bOnKaRoO🦘... Oh, the hoomanity😿
A magnificently thoughtful interview.
This may not are quite relevant: but as a 62 year old woman I have lived through the decades in which masculinity has been increasingly vilified...and one thing I noticed (so its a completely subjective view) but those heterosexual men who were so-called feminine had a great deal of hidden aggression, whereas more traditionally masculine men were more at home and less secretive about their aggression (positive & negative). It was therefore, as a woman, easier to relate to - both to celebrate or confront according to situation.
If you're still looking for more non-affirming males that have/had struggled with dysphoria, I'm willing to talk! I was once in therapy for transitioning, never on hormones, but eventually convinced myself to stay as I am, then continued to flirt with the idea of representing as a woman, and now I'm no longer doing it.
When I was a little girl and having to start wearking pantyhose because I was a "big girl" now, I can tell you it was a nightmare. Hated them, still do. Give me tights or jeans any day. Women's clothes are (or were) not softer nor more comforatable. Don't even get me started on bras...
Have you tried fishnets. ? They look better even on ugly legs and unlike gross beige nylon stockings, they will not cause bacterial vaginosis?
I can't wear old school panty-hose at all, (YUCK!) but was a circus performer and yes fishnets are very comfortable, but not really the type of stocking one would wear to a day job, or to school, or teaching or working with children. One of the slippery slopes society is sliding down is not recognising there is a time a place for appropriate clothing or behaviour. No prude here (obviously) but seriously, it's getting crazy with g-strings at public pools and drag queen story hours. @@marie-claudeblais6025
Bras! I'm very generously endowed, Bra shopping is a nightmare for me, I find a good one and they discontinue making them. The wired ones jab and pinch, the comfortable ones sag and sway, until they form a mono boob. It's the bane of my life. 😣
Most girl clothes are FREEZING too
Such a great guest to have on, and echo the gratitude for the work you are doing on this channel and elsewhere Benjamin. Lots of good fruits of understanding and real compassion coming ripe.
I think lots of little boys - and girls - develop a "thing" for the tactile feel of women's hosiery that puts in in touch with our deepest, most primal longings for the archetypal female because most of us were once needy tiny toddlers who desperately clung to our mother's legs. Most of us clung to our mother's legs in an effort to get her not to leave us when we were going through the stage of child development characterized by separation anxiety.
I never thought of this! It makes sense.
At about 48:30, as Ray was talking about the testosterone experimentation inducing the desire for trans masc ID, and also mentioned tiktok "top surgeries for everyone" it reminded me of another phenomenon that is apparently a gateway to desire for trans identity: trans p*rn/sissy p*rn.
One of the more notable examples of this I've heard about was an interview with Lilly Wachowski, when asked how they became interested in, and knew they were a woman, (instead of a man), they said it because of trans p*rn.
I think Ray‘s right about artificially created desires.. Isn‘t that what we keep experiencing constantly on a less physically invasive level with the masses of products we suddenly think we need bc we are told so directly or more subtly? It‘s what we are conditioned to do. Work, make money to buy whatever you like but don‘t need but are pushed to believe you needed bc most of us have everything we need to survive, so additional desires have to be created for us to keep spending money. When you have little money, you dream of more to be able to choose. If you have a lot of money and can buy everything, there are only abstract desires left or more exciting dark ones you only can „buy with power“..like investing in tech progress to become an eternally life as an artificial thing (AI) with a human (uploaded) mind😫
Check out Rene Giraud's concept of mimetic desire if you have a chance. He summarised it well
Interesting points. Yes we were changed from needs based society of customers to desire based society of consumers. The history of this social engineering is documented in depth in Adam Curtis's Century of the self documentary.
@@emmaherlihy6415 Oh thanks for that source of info, will definitely take a look!
Yes. My whole schtick was drugs and alcohol to “fix” and escape what was wrong with my environment. Of course I had a lot of internal struggles, but I was lucky and realized many of the issues I had were just a disagreement or ill feeling about my environment. External. I went through all the same stuff just from outside of my self. And so I retreated inside myself instead of trying to change myself. Then I hit a brick wall and had to change my identity from an alcoholic addict because I just had no choice at some point. I still struggle. I’m less happy but more calm and at peace. It’s always going to suck so I stopped running, mostly.
I still have to listen to the entire podcast, but he has a very interesting story. I'm glad he's openly discussing these taboo issues.
There is still so much to understand when it comes to the complexities of the psychology of gender and sexuality.
He was also on the Heterodorx Podcast recently, good episode.
i really appreciate a view into the academic philosophical/psychological aspects of this issue-it’s so useful and compelling. there isn’t enough of this. more light, less heat 😊
So glad to be introduced to this brave and brilliant mind. Great episode Boyce!
The comfortable (physically) life is depriving men of the manly instincts. And the diminishing opportunities in manly work (reign of desk and computers) create the ever present lack of demand for traditional manliness “strength, protection of the weaker ones, confidence in one’s ability, certainty of own male identity”…..
I'm inspired and humbled... thanks for this Benjamin and Ray. Benjamin- keep up the good work, agree with Ray- this channel is my go to!
Good interview, as usual. However, the guest expressed a common misunderstanding of the Bible verse of "Do not judge, least you be judged." Many people feel that this verse prohibits expressed discussion of sinful or immoral behavior. That's not what it says. To "judge" doesn't mean to "condemn." Something can be judged as being "good" or "bad." What the verse means is "If you want to judge someone else's behavior, you better be prepared to submit yourself to judgement too." Now, that will righty give most people pause because we know that this reciprocal act might not end up well for us either. While the commandment of "Let the person without sin cast the first stone" speaks against outright condemnation for behavior, I often hear ""Do not judge, least you be judged" taken too far to assert that sinful/immoral behavior can't be highlighted. This also isn't to suggest that people should run around pointing fingers and calling people "sinners!" My point is there's a time, a place, and a way to have such discussions. My personal observation is that is within many "progressive" denominations, the concept of "sin" has almost vanished in-part because of this mindset. This isn't to hold anything against Ray, I just cringe whenever I hear "Do not judge..." thrown out like that.
Thanks for the comment! I’m planning on finding a church to start attending myself.
I find this an extremely thoughtful and ontologically sound treatment right up to the “I wouldn’t want someone to impose their religious views on me” commentary. This is where most of us hit a wall, philosophically. But the answer is quite simple. All of your former premises (what is the good?) are derived from a presupposition of Christian theology/epistemology. If you cannot embrace that initial premise, the rest of your reasoning/argumentation collapses and you are back where you started: “each man should do what is right in his own eyes.”
I’m kind of unique. I don’t really accept any particular religion but I align with religion (specifically Christianity) now. As in, I’m not sure it’s all “true” but I do know it IS true. If you know what I mean.
I’m not a practicing or model Christian but do walk that path fairly consistent.
Incredible interview. I totally adore Ray Williams. He is so authentic. I generally get described as too analytical but i have to admit that you two out-do me on that one. I actually had my fill for today and lost concentration around the one hour mark but will watch the rest of it tomorrow. I don't think the talks need to be shorter; I'm just saying that personally I need to break it up especially when I start watching fairly late in the evening when my mind has also been working on several other things during the day.
In the 1960’s organized religion collapsed in the United States. For many people, civil rights activism became a substitute for Christianity or Judaism.
The first civil rights cause was ending racial segregation and discrimination against blacks.
After that was achieved, the next cause was gay rights.
By 2010 gay rights had been basically achieved and therefore a new disadvantaged racial minority needed to be found.
Transvestites are adult men who are sexually aroused by wearing women’s clothing. They have always existed. Transvestites were renamed transgenders and the category was expanded to include any children who displayed behavior not stereotypical for their gender. A new disadvantaged racial category was created out of thin air: people who are really male but were born into a female body or vice versa. Surgeons and drug companies enthusiastically jumped in to modify the bodies of these people to more resemble the opposite sex, going a step beyond cross dressing to making physical changes through endless hormone injections and cosmetic surgeries.
After Civil Rights, wasn't the next cause feminism, then gay rights? Otherwise this all sounds right. There was overlap between Civil Rights activism and Christianity but not as much as there should have been, alas. Beyond that noble cause, these others all seem to have an element of knee-jerk rebellion in them...which is why, perhaps, a "new disadvantaged racial category" wasn't just found but had to be "created."
This is what psychiatrists and psychologists have always seen this correlation. The new explosion in teens and particularly young girls is the new “anorexia nervosa”. In the 90s the “grunge” look moved through the fashion industry and millions of young women were striving to be heroin chic, starving themselves & vomiting..when the “look” moved out of the mainstream the raging numbers declined. The process of starving themselves was a form of control over their lives. It’s the same thing.
I am glad to see you are doing well, Ray!
I think the lack of a womanhood or manhood ceremony in our culture isnt helping. We have no official recognition of the transition in to being a man or woman.
Well for females it still is having their first period. But yeah there’s no “tradition” about it and actual suppression with birth control and all sorts of shit.
However I also think that could “backfire” maybe… I rejected and rebelled everything growing up. My parents called me “opposite boy” although now I’m running the opposite direction I grew up as, for me personally I probably would have rejected it and had issues with something like that.
Yet, at the same time now in my life even at 27 I need like a drill sergeant to scream at me and pull me out of bed or whatever. I’m learning to just do it myself, but interesting comment!
Now at 27 I wish there was something like that, but younger I probably wouldn’t… who knows.
Yo Benjamin Benjamin…It’s been about 5-6 years, just thought I’d stop in and say hi.
Nice incarnation of Bijou/Bjorn you got there.
Interesting insight! Thanks Ray!
Dont forget he went from athiestic to religious. Thats a tough jump without the detransition for a married couple.
When did he mention religion in this video?
@@andrea-mj9ce he mentioned multiple times that he went from an atheistic worldview to Christian
It's fairly obvious to me that he adopted Christianity as a masculine stabilizing force after his father's own role model of "finding Jesus".
Great episode!
Benjamin's transition into an avatar towards the end of the intervew had an uncanny quality to it.
An interesting conversation, although the prospect of a phenomenologial discussion with a Heideggerian flavour is somewhat daunting.
Many thanks to Ray for his willingness to address his own experience with AGP so openly; it has become such a taboo subject, but without people willing to discuss it will remain a source of shame for those who experience it.
Wonderful interview. Welcome home to the body of Christ. We need more good men who can share testimonies such as yours! And apologetics is a natural step in our growth in Biblical understanding. Knowing why we believe what we believe. Thank you for your transparency and courage to speak about your journey. We are all on one.
Thank God for his testimony !! Keep using it Jesus to help others who are caught in Satans web of this confusion.
the recent episode of the Heterodorx Podcast with Ray Williams as the guest was great.
While I have great respect for the fundamental value of Jesus' best teachings - love, compassion, serving the poor and indigent, and most importantly for anyone suffering from shame, forgiveness -- it's hard not to sometimes see religion as a replacement for addiction. The metaphors in any religion can be immensely valuable and even life changing, but it seems like another form of altering/coping with existence rather than loving acceptance of our really painful dualistic philosophical and animalistic reality.
Agree. I think it depends on the ability of self awareness. If we know our emotions ( recognize them as what they are and understand why we‘re experiencing them), I think it‘s ok, not unhealthy to have faith as a basic guide in life but if we use faith to replace another one to further deceive ourselves and others, to not admit what‘s going on in us, what human nature is, it‘s not really a progress.. For example religious ppl who keep telling me to forgive my s abuser when I still kind of identify w him from unhealthy, as a child internalized coping mechanism, it‘s damaging and the religious ppl might mean well but also don‘t take their own mechanism seriously that keep them from facing inner suffering which won‘t help but keep that suffering and create dissonance they probably will push back even more by praying more and getting more obsessed with telling others to join their religion.
It‘s everyone‘s own choice though what they find helpful, so I just nicely tell ppl to not push anything on me when they try and I‘m trying to stick to what I believe is best for me to be as well as possible. But when it comes to kids and harmful procedures they perceive as helpful bc of a pushed ideology, I‘ll speak up publicly… Because it‘s not fair to push a belief on them that possibly has life changing consequences they can‘t reverse later on but have to live with forever. It‘s not fair to sell them an illusion without even being honest about the realistic impact! Trans ideology also is blurring lines of boundaries- kids are asked to ignore any boundary, girls are asked to ignore their uneasiness with a male in girl‘s spaces. Even with an adult male in a changing room.. That‘s so wrong and not at all beneficial to anyone‘s well being. To be nice is not the most important thing in life but it seems to be „sold“now this way. In the sense of: be nice and everyone will be nice to you. No. Not working this way, especially when that „be nice“ implies we should lie to ppl for the sake of not hurting anyone‘s feelings, even a man‘s feelings who is near a girl with ill intentions… Which is a real possibility and we shouldn‘t ignore it! Some boundaries are based on natural instincts and not on bias or prejudice!
I think Christianity does acknowledge our humanity, the bad part of it and it offers a solution to keep the bad part in check. It helps develop a path for us to reach for our better angels instead of the worst of our demons. So it would help someone with an addiction yes, but it's not a replacement. What other belief system could help someone out of addiction?
People will always use some kind of framework to shape their lives and thoughts. Many American exvangelicals have replaced church with left-wing politics, for example. I think what matters is that it's something positive and enriching.
Thanks for asking the question about detransitioning with a partner!!! I don’t have super strong feelings about detransitioning, but I’m married and I feel like it would be really hard for my husband so I never really accept it as possibility. It has some similarities to the trans widow issues even if it’s in the other direction… 😢
What I find most fascinating here was the subtext quest for certainty. It is so hard to find right now. Christianity provides that by preempting certain kinds of questions.
It would be great to start a support group for those of us recovering from/ dealing with AGP, on Zoom?!
The discussion on trans in respect of transhumanism enabling tech makes me think of... I can therefore I am.
Stealing
1:30:00 Ray talking about apophatic approach to knowledge and theology over here! Man this is good stuff.
I never thought a convo about God and morality would be helpful to me personally thinking about how to keep going with the boring stuff. Making it not be for me but for someone else is helpful.
And just the idea alone that the almighty everything is male is pretty funny in the context of all of these excellent calmversations. If there's ever been a truly male AND female existence, wouldn't it be that? Religion makes "God" so small, does it not?
Your last remark is so poignant and so absolutely on the mark
This is a man's world baby!
Thanks
31:40 No woman worries about ”passing”. Thats not a female thing😁😁
Where can I find that juicy Philosophy Tube drama?
New Zealand fruit 🥝 farms. Search the contra thread
@@lizzysmith5365 Thanks! Found a thread with 418 pages, but not sure where to find what Benjamin was talking about at 12:57. Got a post number by chance?
Passing equivalent would be black people passing for white, with the accompanying anxiety of being found out back in the day when it was dangerous to cross colour lines.
Interestingly, there is a current epidemic of black women donning European hair in a feeble attempt to gain status in Western culture, although ostensibly it's just a fashion trend.
Also, it is surprisingly rife among older black African women. (Skin lightening, illegal in some countries, is also at what I consider epidemic levels).
I've done the hair pat before, during my teenager years though now I wear my hair natural.
Wait -- women's hoisery "comfortable"?
I'm a woman with autistic sensory issues and I LOATHE most hoisery. 🤷🏾♀️
I guess everyone's different.
Edit: Ah yeah, the fifth button analogy, that makes more sense. Hoisery isn't generally comfortable.
Ah yeah non autistic woman here and I'm like WHAT???
I am a non autistic woman, who is tall and absolutely loath tights (hosiery) as the gusset is constantly between the knees 🤣
@@errin-mp1zy 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Same autism too, they definitely usually are not comfortable (sure some are more) but they kind of makes you feel bit more feminine if that's what you want to feel like.
If you're forced to wear them for whatever reason, buy two sizes larger. The size chart says I'm size A, so I buy size C instead and they fit more comfortably like leggings. They don't sag anywhere and look the same. I prefer leggings to jeans (sensory ofc. Jeans are scratchy.) I wear leggings one size larger too 😅.
Should be interesting conversation
I did get a small stroke (from blood clot) 3 months ago, been off HRT since…
I think we really need to go back to when people needed to see a psychiatrist or psychologist, and really determine whether or not that person is experiencing gender dysphoria or if there’s something else going on, but nowadays, we just affirm people no matter what, and people are just slipping through the cracks, so we’re going to have more and more transition than we ever had before. I think if people really were meant to sit down with a psychiatrist and work through their issues, some people might even be able to resolve some of this on their own or find out that they have other issues besides being trans or that they really are trans and a medical transition would help them.
Exactly. A commenter on this video said he told his therapist that he wanted to be a woman because he wasn't manly enough. He was given the green light.
@@AshleyWilliams-xq7lj thats horrible and sad and that person probably just needed counseling, not affirmation that theyre really a woman
If he would have lived in a time where men wore tights, then he would have gravitated towards something else that symbolizes the same thing that modern "hosery" symbolizes now?
I love your cats!
I never heard anyone mention narcissism. Did I miss it? Timestamp?
maybe the partner, because he doesn't seem to be a narc
I wonder if Ray was a gamer did he use male or female avatars and if so did this change or differ in any way once the idea of transitioning came about.
Great question.
I was also wondering about "sissy porn".
47:00 another word for "possibility model" with regards to mans invention or use of technology might be "temptation". The sorcerers apprentice and all.
Here is a stereotype I have of many trans "interested" people, they have a very high intellect. It's interesting. Although perhaps we only hear from the super smart people in the media. Anyway, I enjoyed listening to Ray's thoughts and ideas. Very enjoyable and enlightening. I'm curious: Is it possible to be a non-obsessed AGP. If you want. to cross dress at home for sexual gratification, is there something wrong with this. Or is it a slippery slope and an AGP can never be content with just that?
You have to have a certain degree of intelligence to manage the mental gymnastics required to make you decieve yourself that what you know from observing reality and your instinct is wrong.
A less intelligent person would say "A women can have a dick and balls? BS!" and he would be right.
Of course the most intelligent break through the desire to believe dumb things just to look smart, sift through the evidence and come to the same conclusion as the less intelligent man on the street.
Who was it that said "Some ideas are so absurd only intellectuals believe them"? It escapes me.
I honestly doubt it's possible for AGPs to contain themselves to the private realm.
Sexual kinks increase the frissons of pleasure, especially as social taboos.
So the sexual progression of the AGP would be naturally, so to speak, from privately dressing as a woman to publicly "performing" as one.
@@littleboots9800Orwell said it.
@@ribbrascal Hmm, maybe that's why some trans identified males insist on competing against women in sports? They seem totally shameless to me, but maybe they dump their shame to the onlookers instead
Until a few years ago, they had to be (content). Trans ideology is trying to normalise public display of this sexual fetish.
12:24
Taboo and novelty aspect was brought up in DarkHorse podcast as the driving force behind the pornography industry: different producers of pornography compete to the extreme in the spectrum of sexuality to get more views for the bottom line - for more $$$$
So nuts
I don't think spirituality is as ineffable as it's sometimes assumed like here, and this view is part of what holds some people back from it. It's all about getting to experience the world in its total nature, and if we're trying to do that, there shouldn't be a gap between spiritual experience and the exploration done in physics. Maybe Christianity has this verticality and innate vision of necessary mystery that leads to this view? I think Ray even is unconsciously aware of it, when he states people assume he jumped from one ideology to the next: in both cases, he's still a little bit dogmatic!
Agreeing that spirituality must have a lived, practiced side, though
Is it correct to refer to the phenomenon as trans narcissism? Isn't the resultant narcissism a feature due to the adoption of femaleness? "after five years of grad school"... I detect a plausible causal motive
I've been calling them "trans-narcissists" for I think about a year now.
~9:00 : ~Taboo, shame, binge & purge. cycles shorten~ . That's already worthwhile: I'd think we do want young men to be able to see through taboos & shames, sorting through which are valid and which aren’t and desensitizing to ones that aren’t. So how interesting that there'd be male conditions where we're stuck on the same one, indulging the shame itself or breaking just that boundary. Might be a hazard inherent in a great instinct.
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%$#&ing scratchy tags. Will mothers never learn?
Femininity in men and masculinity in women
"Husband, will you sleep with me tonight?"
*sigh* "Yes, honey, I shall make that sacrifice for you"
Every straight woman's dream, right there.
That's not exactly a fair interpretation.
It was the goodness of being with their partner vs the pleasure of cross dressing. Being with the wife was always in the good category so its closer to "I guess ill sacrafice having a mistress for you" haha
@@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756 You mean like resisting other women in order to be faithful? I suppose that makes sense.
Every straight woman dream. Not to have clots or cramps or heavy blood flow. Not to have bloating or pain with menstrual blood. To sit and not worry if blood has damaged your white skirt. That's is a woman's dream each month till menopause. Then menopause is the next big life challenges. 😊
@Lumbergh42 yep, pretty much that exactly. It's giving up something pleasurable that you have the power to do for something else you like to do that is also good instead of hedonistic.
It's not romantic to express directly, but it's a given notion for exclusive couples
@@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756 Sex with my wife would be the hedonistic thing I'd have to sacrifice to... get to work on time or make sure the kids get breakfast or something. That's why it sounded backwards to me.
1:28:30 Try explaining 'spirituality' to Benjamin Boyce lmao
Had me up until wicked Christian now. End to end.
Is Benjamin Boyce dating that other lady with the UA-cam channel who used to work for a college?
See my community tab.
Why u saying that when u have AGP?
The lesbian developing a mans identity after testosterone should be a given. Taking testosterone will have your thought process shift focus. I would imagine your sex needs increase, thoughts and behaviors change along with physical features. I think it would be stranger if your identity did not shift from this process. Hell for a pregnant woman, pregnancy itself and the shift of your body and things happening that never have is somewhat of an odd experience. I felt out of my identity having no control over my feelings/body it def was not my full self. That being said that shift does not mean oh wow i must be a man/ woman. It means your a woman who is taking male hormones lol. This stuff is a lot less about identities and far more about common sense science and sex hormones. The same with the pregnancy example - i was feeling my body shared with another human being which was shifting the hormones/ changing the functions- these processes were changing my behavior and body and making my feeling of self shift. Then again when it comes to pregnant women we are told the science behind the process and what is happening. The trans community says that is a "gender identity" and lies to the person.
PRIMVS!!!!
👍🏽😊
did I understand correctly that he calls himself a "philosopher" with a bachelor's degree? lmao
dude says things like "luciferian will" and thinks we should take him seriously as an academic thinker or something... he just says a ton of words without ever addressing any of the genuine points of the 'trans movement'
Interviews are better when the interviewer speaks little and the interviewee speaks 99% of the time (as you used to do).
In the first few minutes and listening to Ray describing the issues with "male" clothing. There are labels in "women's" clothes and they can be very irritating. That really doesn't cut it. Hosiery is a pet hatred of mine because tights are uncomfortable, often sweaty, and always drop the bloody crotch when wearing them as they should be worn. I'm, fortunately, now no longer seeing any need whatsoever to wear those ghastly things unless they are old thick woolly tights that I lopped the feet off. Then they are great under trousers to keep you warm. I know bikers who've worn tights in winter as effective thermals. I suspect this is to do with a masochistic streak and quite an offensive view of women as being a fourth class subspecies.
If they kept doing that then you were wearing ones too small for you. Quite a common mistake not helped by cheap manufacturers reducing material and letting the stretch do the work.
Interesting comparison of trans lifestyle to unhealthy coping mechanism.
We stand with the LGB alliance . Gender ideology is both homophobic and misogynist leave kids alone.
Speaking against homosexuality or trans does not make one homophobic friend nor does it make those who agree with it heterophobia.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and is the final authority.
Please watch Joe Dallas who was militant in the homosexuality movement.
Thank-you.
And plain destructive and delusional and incorrect..
@@alivingstone4Himthat’s what this person said as well. Not sure if you understood it correctly or just wanted to also promote Christianity. Which I have no problem with. I’m planning on finding a church to attend regularly myself.
he basically changed one sect for another one?
Boyce is too fixated on shame. Shame is a relatively early and surface level attribute of crossdressers. The deeper they go into their fetish, the more quickly any shame quickly evaporates in favour of an intense love and euphoria for the woman they love (them). Shame isn't really a factor driving anything except the purge cycle.
That sounds about right. I think it is more about the thrill. Put simply it is a turn on, and then they feel guilty afterwards because they know it's "not normal" but it is like an addiction they can't stop doing ; a bit like raiding the biscuit tin and then feeling awful afterwards, only with more serious implications.
@shweefranglais7900 exactly. At most, crossdressers can feel shame shortly after masturbatory. Some call it post nut clarity. But that's not exactly uncommon in men and the fact it's really only a thing in these men once their sexual arousal is the least strong is demonstrative of the fact that shame isn't really relevant to their fetishistic arousal
Omg ...oh, I thought he was that cat in the tree.
Complete narcissism. Absolute obsession with self.
Interesting. I wouldn't want anyone to sacrifice their harmless natural sexual urges for me. It sounds terrible how he says that having sex with his wife is a form of self-sacrifice. How can that ever be authentic and satisfying? Wouldn't it make more sense to find a compatible partner? But I get that he went through some kind of spiritual transformation that I have no chance to understand so maybe it's all about that.
Everyone has their own path up the mountain.
If they're determined to find one.
What did Jesus Christ, the perfect standard of morality teach?
”But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’“
Taoism also teaches that with the yin/yang concept.
Gonna have to rethink Joe Namath in the pantyhose.
Thanks for reminding me
✌️🖖
Your poor tree got mangled. Hey, Folks: Please read up on proper pruning techniques before you try it, and also choose a dwarf or semi dwarf if you want a smaller tree. Don't try to keep a tree smaller than it will grow to be naturally, unless you're committed to bonsai!
Secular liberalism will always be falling into itself. It will always devolve into new pathologies. Modernity needs to stop fearing Christian theology. I recommend reading/studying Saint Maximus’ “Cosmic Mystery” work to understand more of true Christian theology: on the logos/logoi.
Secular liberalism has the problem of sin against them. Only through Jesus Christ are we truly free.
I wish I could help others with this knowledge 😔
@@S.G.W.Verbeek I know what you mean but we all have the problem of sin against us. The difference is that the true Christian regrets the sin while the Secular Liberal justifies (or champions!) it.
9:16 this is exactly the cycle described by serial killers/rapists. I am not saying this man is any of those things but they do seem to lie on the same spectrum as agp.
Or gambling, drugs, DV
y
Benjamin hangs his head when our guest mentions his religious feelings. Does that really make you that uncomfortable? You certainly don't care to discuss this, do you?
If I'm not wrong sexologists conceptualize "autogynephilia" as a sexual orientation. If that's the case you'll probably never be able to change that; you can probably only be able to "control" it.
I think Dr. Az Hakeem, who treated such people as a therapist for about twenty years, characterizes them as more ‘asexual’ in that the primary sexual attraction they experience is to their own selves, not other people of either sex. He says a lot of them will identify as bisexual and are willing to engage in sexual activity with either sex, but only as a means to an end, and they’re really focused on themselves the whole time. I recommend seeking out interviews he’s done recently, as well as his recent book ‘De-Trans’.
Most sexologists consider agp to be paraphilic not a sexual orientation. Meaning: persistent and recurrent sexual interests, urges, fantasies, or behaviors of marked intensity involving objects, activities, or even situations that are atypical in nature.
There are few who vaguely equate it to orientation but they are often outliers in the field & also consider beastiality, necrophilia & pdophilia as “orientations” rather than abnormalities.
Blaming women and feminism for AGP is amazing think again brother.
Huh, I thought I made a comment about "Philosophy Tube" directing torture in the wokenista gulags, but it's not here.
Too spicy?
Click on "newest" above the comments
Since it’s about taboo, your social conservative types like Matt Walsh are helping by keeping the line somewhere sane.
Is that real facial hair? How did he get it?
Men grow facial hair. It’s a downstream effect of our sexual development.
@@BenjaminABoyce Not if they've reached a point where they can later claim to have "transitioned." They either never grew a beard in the first place, or had what little there was removed by electrolysis.
So this is just a normal guy who says he was a mild cross-dresser. Didn't 'transition' or 'detransition.' 🤗
A real stretch, Ben!
@@AlbertPaysonTerhuneI had 11 rounds of high powered laser hair removal and took hormones for 8 years. The laser was sufficient for hiding my shadow when I was clean shaven and electrolysis is super expensive time consuming and painful. But sure, I must be fake detrans and not really AGP.
@@AlbertPaysonTerhunehe took estrogen for 8 years and had a pulmonary embolism because of it. He transitioned.
@@AlbertPaysonTerhuneit grows back when they stop oestrogen, (he was on it for 8 years.) Oestrogen only thins and slows beard growth, it doesn't stop it.
I mean, I'm glad he's finding a path out of atheist academia and autogynephilia identity via Christianity, but it's clear his nature is that of "follower". What people have told him, that he follows different ideologies in a cult-like way has validity.
His voice physiognamy is indicative of his submissive nature.
I found myself rolling my eyes at some of the Christian pronouncements.
But good for him nonetheless. Most people need a spiritual ideology.
lol. I’m on the fence about religions yet I preach the Bible and sometimes go to church. I don’t ever want to be wrong and I can’t really PROVE Christianity or any other religion really is true. They all are true AND deceitful. They all can be used for good and for evil.
But I can admit something like Christianity is THE way for life here on earth regardless…. LOL. And I would call myself an agnostic or something.Maybe “his” or “it’s” name isn’t god, but something else. It’s still the same thing to me and it’s the most convincing ideology personally for me.
If you guys could step back you will see you are reinventing the wheel. Id suggest u both find older male role models who you have contact with daily...You are spinning your wheels at problems that have already been solved.
Sounds a bit simplistic tbh
@@ribbrascal because it's not that complicated
If they've been solved why is this crap still happening...hmmmm...
@@caitturner5678 you sweet summer child
Sorry, I don't speak redditor. Let me know what you are actually trying to say & I'll be happy to engage.