Cool little detail: Whenever Grisha can "see" Zeke, Eren is actually positioned behind both of them looking at them, so Grisha isnt actually "seeing" Zeke, rather he can see Eren's memories of seeing both of them. Its the same with when Eren talked to Grisha. Eren can actually control what memories get sent to Grisha and what don't, thats why Grisha asks why Eren won't show if Carla and Mikasa were safe, because Eren chose not to as leverage for Grisha to do what he wanted. So finally, when Eren was talking to Grisha, he was simply sending memories to the past of him speaking. Its really interesting once you start understanding the whole "memories of the future" thing
A very good explanation, but I wouldn’t say that this is a little detail it’s very important to understand for this episode cuz I feel like they didn’t quite get it. Your explanation clears how all past-future conversations are happening.
"Protect Mikasa and Armin". This was our first clue, but I don't think any of us really understood the actual complications of those words at the time. Such masterful story writing.
@@JollibeenosHasYourCoordinates That's not how the AT works. It's not like with other shifters, where you can just see memories. Here the future inheritor must choose to send them back. Otherwise, it works the same. Technically, it's possible that Eren sent it, too, as he witnessed the moment.
@@j_official4138 nope because the attack titan actually don't have the ability to see future...the future inherited should allow the past inheriter to see the future...and Kruger never was sure why he even said to protect Mikasa and Armin...it was like someone told Kruger to say that...eren Yeager really is the most amazing and complex character in the series
@امير مادرا bruh you're trying a lil bit too hard to Troll But no one is caring about ur reply on every comment 😂 anywayss.............. have a good day tho
@@ameerioo4757 ooh yess he iss No comments in that I was just saying that he was trying to Troll people by saying a character is goat and all to trigger others 😂
Someone give Hiroshi Tsuchida, Grisha's VA, an award. He owns absolutely every episode he's in. That Day, Sole Salvation, and now Memories of the Future. Absolutely heartbreaking performances. And to clarify, when Eren killed the human traffickers as a child, that was ALL him. He hadn't inherited the Attack Titan from Grisha yet. Eren's always had a screw loose. And when Grisha asks Zeke to stop Eren, he's saying that because he's already seen the future of what Eren's done. He even mentions that he couldn't believe how terrible a future it was.
I haven't finished the manga so please don't spoil me. I believe in aot the future is written. Even if you don't inherit the titan you are technically linked to it because the future is set. I believe eren manipulated Krueger to let Dina get converted and to pass the titan to grisha so the events of S1 to 3 happen, giving eren the drive and rage to save the world.
I swear since season 1, its not just Grisha VA that did an excellent Job. The entire cast team did an amazing. Voice acting in Attack On Titan is an other level and its one of the reason why Aot was 4 of the top 10 best series in the world. GG for the cast team
Your clarification is kinda wrong. Spoiler beneath. In the first chapter; and iirc the first episode, Eren does see the whole story. Being a subject of Ymir, he is tied to path, and we know the path transcend space and time to link all subjetcs of Ymir. We know that, through the path, all titan users can get access to previous users, since they are all linked. Now, we also know that Ymir and, therefore, the founder when used with royal blood, can literally do whatever it wants with said subjects, can easily send memories back in time. Hence the theory of determinism, and the fact that Eren was never really free.
@@patatebanine4278 honestly next to grisha, eren's voice acting is one of my favorites for aot. His jp voice actor normally irl has a rather high pitched and really cute and friendly voice, and he did such a good job bringing eren to life, from childhood to adulthood, his hope and despair and rage, everything. Eren's such a roller coaster of a character and he nailed it, couldn't have asked for a better eren voice. Apart from eren and grisha, i also really love the voice acting for zeke, reiner, gabi and falco, levi's voice acting in his OVA was really heartbreaking too (yknow, THAT scene) (just to clarify in case I get attacked by hardcore fanatics, just bc the charas I listed have my favorite voice acting in the show doesn't mean i think everyone else sucked, i just like how these characters really portray a wide array of emotions in their voices)
Your first instinct was correct Ange! Eren saw himself through Grisha's memories when he kissed Historia's hand. It's the same way Grisha saw Zeke in the basement, he was seeing Eren's memories of the future, of Eren and Zeke in his own memories!
To be more precise, Eren did not see himself the same way Grisha saw Zeke, cause Grisha saw Zeke through Eren's memories because Zeke was in Eren field of view, while Eren saw himself through Grisha's memories cause in those memories he actually saw the memories of himself (Eren) being there watching the scene, there's an extra step, therefore the title "memories of the future" maeks even more sense, cause in grisha's memories he saw memories of the future himself.
@@cianchetto4 Keep in mind Eren has to send the memory back to Grisha for Grisha to hear him. So in that moment, Grisha is actually seeing things from Eren's point of view. So when Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his dad's past memory from Eren's future point of view. So theoretically, Eren does see the memory from his own perspective
I think you guys completely missed the fact that grisha was looking at future eren in ep 1 when telling younger eren about the basement. Grisha was staring outside when telling eren about the basement in ep 1 and now we get to see he was actually looking at future eren at that time
Rather, Grisha was looking at himself through the eyes of Eren and his memories, and knew that must mean Eren has to be standing there to make that memory.
@@kevinhoage164 yeah I resent WIT for animating that scene like that, it gets some anime onlies confused but in the manga it's really clear that grisha is looking outside
Remember what Berthold said in S3? It was something like: "you guys have done nothing wrong and you aren't devils either. It's just that you still need to die here" and then later "the world is just this cruel". That summarizes this whole show, sadly there's no happy middle... You gotta make a choice and wherever side you pick, people must be killed in order to achieve your objectives.
AOT is like a world where doing evil to fight evil is necessary. Armin said it long ago multiple times back in season 1 "in order to overcome monsters, one must toss aside their humanity". He isn't talking about Eren but Armin should be the one to understand Eren better than anyone because they somehow believe in this but Armin wasn't able to maintain this belief later on.
That was the moment we realized Eren was indeed disgusted with his father and did lose his respect, but not for the reasons Zeke thought. Zeke thought Eren was disgusted by the murder of the royal children--instead he found out Eren was disgusted that his father wouldn't do it faster and second-guessed himself. His father let his humanity get in the way of his mission: and Eren's not having it.
Eren whispered in Isayama's ear and told him to write this story On a serious note, it's really scary how Grisha, someone who was so anti-Marley and pro-Eldia, saw one glimpse of Eren's plan and was like, "Zeke. You have to stop him." Despite Grisha's hate for Marley and how far he was willing to go, even HE thought his plan was too far. He was genuinely horrified. Whatever Eren's plan is, Grisha does not want it to happen. Speaking of, Zeke and Grisha finally getting to work out their issues and hug each other in a moment of pure love is really heartwarming. Grisha understood his mistakes when raising Zeke before. Instead of only treating him as a tool, he treats him as his son. Zeke is finally able to take his first step towards closure after years of trauma. Even if they had their differences, Grisha and Zeke can at least agree with one thing: Stopping Eren.
The thing is, though, that Grisha changed his mind once he learned of Carla's death when he came back. That was what pushed him to get Eren to inherit the Attack Titan, despite everything that Grisha knew was going to happen.
I wrote that comment for another reaction channel to explain what happened here. I share this with you: trust me, this is worth reading and ofc, without spoilers (also, there will not be any other explanation in the following episodes up until the end so...). Two thousand years ago, the titans were born from the powers of Ymir and in the previous episode, Zeke told us that she is a slave of the royal family for unknown reasons (at least for now). In this episode, Grisha tells us that the attack titan was created to fight the king's self-righteousness and that Frieda (the royal family) was unaware of it. In other words, Ymir would have created the attack titan behind the back of the royal family. We know that each primordial can see the memories of its predecessors (Porco seeing Marcel's memories or Armin with Bertholdt). But, in this episode, we learned that the attack titan has the power to read the memories of its future holders. This power, only Eren discovered it... When? How?. The response is simple: by mistake. When Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his father killing the royal family but he also saw his father chatting with Zeke and his future self. The power of the attack titan is not to see the future directly but simply to observe the memories of the next holder if this one accepts it. For example, at the end of the episode, Grisha does not see Zeke, he sees himself, facing Zeke, from Eren's point of view. You can see Eren as a camera where he can choose, whenever he wants, to share his current vision to his predecessors. Then, to "know" the future, he has to share his vision to the predecessors and then see in Grisha's memories what's going to happen. There can only be one future (obviously). So when Eren decided to share his memories, he writes history, and the future cannot change anymore, otherwise his memories could not be transmitted to others and history would change. It's fate. When Eren shows his memories, he transmits them to all his predecessors simultaneously. Now you know why Eren was saying "TATAKAE" in front of the mirror: he was actually sharing his memories and using the mirror so that his predecessors can see him. Try to imagine: the first person gets the attack titan two thousand years ago and sees Eren telling him "fight, if you don't fight, you can't win". Apart from this person, all those who inherited this titan thought they were seeing the memories of the first owner, when in fact, they were seeing the memories of the last owner of this titan. Exactly, Eren must be the last attack titan, because if there is a new one, he could share is memories to change history and that is not possible. To be precise, Grisha was also aware of the impact of the future on his time. When Eren shared his memories, by "mistake", he revealed the presence of Zeke. From this moment, Grisha start understanding the power of the attack titan. Another thing: Now, we know why Eren Kruger said "To save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else, you must see it through.". In fact, everyone who had the attack titan knew they had to save Mikasa and Armin, but they didn't know it was future memories. -------> To be clear: the moment the attack titan was created by Ymir, the whole story was written and could not be changed. To understand how the story is written, you have to admit that the story is written from the end. Okay, so Eren wants freedom for him and his friends. When he thinks he got that freedom, he shares his memories and the past can't change. In fact: two thousand years of history has been written at that exact moment. Inevitably, we are going to the future that Eren saw, and no one can change a thing. If for example, Eren wanted to be a pizza maker (yeah...), the attack titan goal would not be to fight the king's self-righteousness with freedom, but with pizza and the history would have been different. That's because Eren wants freedom that every holder of the attack titan wanted freedom as well. Eren Kruger told us on the wall that Grisha was "chosen" to have the attack titan. In fact, this titan is transmitted each time to someone revolutionary. Indeed, if someone revolutionary has the attack titan, he will want to bequeath it to someone who shares his revolutionary ideas and that's how the titan has travelled through history to "fight" the royal line. It's funny to see that Zeke thought that Eren was being manipulated by his father, when we learn that Eren was manipulating two thousand years of history ^^. The story is actually a loop: Grisha steals the founding titan -> Grisha gives both titans to Eren -> Eren can attack Marley -> The can "kidnap" Zeke -> they can "touch" each other -> they can travel in Grisha's memory -> Eren can "contact" Grisha through memories and tell him to steal the founding titan -> ... (loop) This is the ultimate paradox of Attack on Titan. You can't find a beginning to the story except from the end. Another paradox: Eren ordered Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> So he's going to look for his daughter (Historia) -> he will get killed by her -> She will become the new Queen of Eldia -> Eren will kiss her hand for the presentation of survey corps medals -> So he can look at his father's memories and see himself ordering to Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> ... (loop) Here is my last point: When Zeke wanted to use his scream, Eren said "Wait!". At first sight, we can think that Eren hesitates and does not want to lose the people dear to him (Pixis for example). It's not that at all. Eren tells him to wait a second, so that Falco, his brother (Colt) and Gabi can arrive and do their dialogue. Once Zeke uses his scream, he orders Falco to "defend" Eren. That's what allows Eren's run. Also, without that little second, Gabi wouldn't be there and couldn't shoot Eren. Since Eren kissed Historia's hand, there are many details like that and I encourage you all to watch SNK again to find out more. Thanks you for reading this, it is always with great pleasure that I like to discuss this masterpiece that is SNK.
i read attack on titan to the end and this explaination goes through things even i missed. This is such a beautful explaination and Isayama is a amazing story teller. Ty
Perfectly put! From the beginning It's been not the memories of the FIRST Attack Titan shaping the future, but the memories of the LAST one who chose a specific path.
Well thats not going change and i would even go that far and say that will never change. As longs as there is more than one person on this planet there will always be people who disagree and fight. I guess thats just how we humans are…
Zeke looks at him like that, because he was the little brother he wants to save from his fathers indoctrination, all the while Grisha was a loving father and Eren the mastermind.
the entire final scene is literally like...a master class in animation like wtf. its so gorgeous and the animation is so fluid and the voice acting is incredible, the shot compositions are insane, the music is crazy, the emotion is palpable.... its such a good episode. only gets BETTER FROM HERE too
This is the episode I thought of every time you guys theorized about like... teleportation, time travel, portals, etc. Knowing that TIME was going to become such a major a story element I was like holy shit they're on the right track!
Both the two Erens told Grisha the same lines when faced with dilemma: “You keep moving forward. Until death. Even after death. After all.. aren't you the one who started this story?” Poor man you can clearly see Grisha's regret and anguish after the two erens pointed out he “started this story.” So he stabbed the very same hand that grabbed Faye past the walls..
@@rationalmind3785 yeah, that's why I never get tired of rewatching it through people's yt reaction. Always gotta have a fresh pick up in every rewatch.
Even after death part such a strong line. We don;'t even know if Eren is alive, or if his will is moving forward after his own death, like the first kings.
I think supporting eren but not his actions is completely valid as we've been following his point of view since the very start of the show, and his actions aren't completely baseless either, horrible, but we can see how he came to this conclusion. Also he's just such an interesting and well written character that I just have to root for him
The story is well made that it puts the characters in desperate situations where they will be forced to do morally questionable acts but the only necessary one.
I don't know, if you actually follow his character and don't ignore his faults simply because he is a protagonist, there are plenty of reasons to dislike Eren. Him being a rage monster that constantly spouts about devouring and genociding well before season 4 being some examples as to why. Many of the SEVERE RED FLAGS for Eren get written off by some because they simply think it is angst or - like many protagonists - he will "get over it". Eren never "gets over it".
@@Tyrantofthewind Eren being a rage monster prior to Season 4 is him just a beginner shifter for the attack titan. He tends to lose control over his emotions due to the trauma other titans and shifter have done to his mom, friends, comrades and other people. He already said it before, he doesn't think these criminals as humans but dangerous animals.
Ive always thought it would be IMPOSSIBLE to beat the sheer intensity and brilliance and emotion of an episode like Midnight Sun when Levi makes that messed up choice, but this episode....my god. The writing is such perfection. It's crazy how many interconnected storylines there are in Attack On Titan that would be MASTERFUL stories in their own right. Attack On Titan probably counts as a modern epic in that sense.
At the end grisha said that he saw eren's memories of what happens next and that it was terrible (u already know what that is at this point) and eren when he kissed historia's hand 4 years ago he saw grisha's memories and as a result seeing his own memories of the future, meaning he saw that "terrible thing" that's why he was so shocked back then. Also, eren had to kill the reiss family to prevent them from getting back the founding titan.
Well to be fair most of them were terrible people anyway and they had to die one way or the other. If they didnt died there would be a high risk that one of them gets the founding titan back and erases alls Eldians memorys again and thus alls Edlains would die.
Love all your reactions. One note, when little Eren is talking about joining the Scouts and tells his dad "If we don't continue what they started it will all have been for nothing" is what made Grisha realize what he had to do. And Eren didn't control his father, he just reminded him in that moment that this had to be done, if he didnt kill the Reiss family all the lives lost before now, all the countless deaths would have been for nothing.
Exactly...they make it seem like eren is one puppetmaster...but to me it seems eren just shows them what is to come and they decide to go along (even though he doesn't show everything) Cos even after greisha says stop eren to zeke, he still goes and gives eren the power...I think its cos after all that he saw the destruction and death of his wife and was like nah...eren take the power.
@@essiensamuel1816 Eren did not control them directly, but he definitely manipulated them, Grisha himself in this chapter asked him why he did not show him if his wife and mikasa were okay, he did not do it so that they make decisions only with the knowledge that Eren gave him
@@wilsonarenas7583 I get your point...but I don't think it'd have changed anything...he'd have probably been panicked and fucked it all up...he still found out his wife was dead a few moments later...I think eren not showing him the memory was even a mercy cos then he'd know it was his first wife who killed his new wife .. basically he'd have fucked it up And when he finds out everything and is all caught up he eventually still decides to give the power to eren. Not entirely sure but I'm guessing that was still fully greishas choice. Also I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure I remember greisha seemed angry and yelling at eren when he gave him the shot 😅
29:35 We never lost the old eren. Its just like eren said to zeke earlier in the episode: He has been like this from the beginning ever since he was born, we just failed to see the issues that comes from having that mindset in a world like theirs where the whole world is their enemy. At first, their whole world was just the walls and the titans outside of it but as we see in the end of season 3, it's much more than that. Their world was so much bigger than what they initially thought as well as the enemies trapping them in "their cage". Still facing the same reality of being trapped in a cage and the world being their enemy, Eren keeps moving forward and "for freedom, he fights".
Great reaction and discussion as always guys! Kruger's quote about Armin and Mikasa weren't Eren's memories, but Grishas - when he injected Eren with the serum he said to him the same quote: "if you wanna save Armin and Mikasa, you must master this power!" (it was first shown when Eren's skeletal titan first appeared in S1).
OMFG, yes!!!! It may seem trivial, but what a fact! I'm just realizing that every attack titan inheritor takes ITS OWN decisions influenced by future inheritor's memories.
@@AnibalAlvarez I was always so lost whenever there was this past-future-element in shows and movies. it really confuses me and whenever I think I finally got it, I didn't. I get that Eren let them see what he wants them to see so he has the control. But does that mean Eren let Grisha see what he saw during their trip through grishas past? bc grisha could see zeke through erens eyes but that means he let grisha see it right? there is just this thing that always confuses me: so, grisha saw what eren planned (while he was in the past) which can only be bc eren let him see it. eren could only manipulate grisha through zeke showing him grishas past so how come the past is exactly how eren manipulated it when he could only do so in the future? for example: eren told grisha to kill the kids when he went through grishas past. but before eren told him to do so during the past traveling, it has already happened? grisha killed the kids before eren got in contact with zeke to tell grisha to do so which confuses me so much. i must've missed an important aspect.
@@PeyloBeauty Eren needed Zeke for directly intervening in very specific moments... But most of the Eren's job was simply letting Griesha access his memories through years. DO you remember Eren talking to the mirror saying "Tatakae!"? Clearly he was not talking to himself, but to Griesha, or even the Howl. Eren drove the behaviour of all his previous inheritors. The single phrase that move the "Attack" Titan during all the history was "Attack!" (Tatakae!). Eren made sure that each and every one of them watch him say it. That's why talking to the mirror was fundamental. Beside the Reiss massacre (which is a key event), Eren didn't really need to travel through his memories with Zeke. Indeed, it was Eren who let Zeke and Griesha close their cycle and forgive each other. Eren strategically stood up behind Griesha (like in the basement) so he could clearly see Zekke through his eyes. It was Eren who purposely made it possible! Questioning if the kids had already died before Eren forced Griesha to kill them isn't worth it. It's a time travel paradox! The circle will repeat once and again.
The Attack Titans will to fight & longing for freedom that was mentioned long ago is Eren's Will influencing all of the previous Attack titans before him. *That's why it seeks freedom, that's why it fights!* That's just how strong Eren's Will & Drive is, He very existence has influenced countless other Attack Titans to this exact point in time long before he was even born.
Ironically, Zeke whose himself thought that the Vow of Renouncing War doesn't have the power over him. And here he is, saying the same thing as the royal family, doing the same thing as the royal family (he would rather Eldians to perish instead of fighting), agreeing with the royal's ideology.
Something that they missed about the kruger scene "you have to save mikasa and armin", that was a line grisha says to Eren just before he injecting Eren so its technically Grishas memory and not Erens
Zeke thought his father was the devil and tried to save Eren from his influence. While trying to save, he realized that the real demon was Eren. What a masterpiece.
And Eren never would have become a devil in the first place if he never tried to save him, because Grisha wouldn't be able to kill the Royal family and get the founder
I like Ange still trying to see things from Eren's perspective. I think that's the whole point of the show, that there is no absolutely right answer. Ultimately how far would you go to save your world and everyone you love.
"Everyone's plan sucks." Man speaking fact. Absolutely agree with it. I really can't understand people who said Zeke's plan is better or Eren's plan is better. Nah. They all are bad. The only justification to all of the plans here is "there is no other way/we have no choice" And yes, even tho Eren has become villainous, doesn't mean he's the only big villain here. Zeke is getting sympathy because of his backstory and I totally understand that. I do too have sympathy for child Zeke. But there's just no way I'll ever forget that one moment when the beast massacred the scout and called it "Perfect game". He was literally toying with human's life, then some episodes later had the nerve to say "I saved lives" to Levi. Zeke has a good character arc, but he's just not a hero. And I totally disturbed by the fact how some people forgive Zeke so easily after his tragic backstory, but those same people still hating on Gabi to this day even after she had that great character's development.
I'm sorry, but comparing what Eren does to Zeke taking out military targets is a bit of a stretch. Where is your outrage for them feeding Bertholdt to Armin? A massively more disgusting moral offense than killing legit military forces. If you wanted to hit Zeke for something actually fucked up, it would be transforming people into Titans against their will. Not killing the scouts. People do morally questionable or outright atrocious things in real life and in this show for their own ends. But what those things are, and the scale, absolutely matters. And on both, Eren stands alone as the villain.
@Edu Alves He literally sacrificed himself and his happiness to build a different world for his friends and his people. It's true that only in that way they will be truly free. He just has the guts to do it no matter the hate he will get.
@@keane4464 it's not he was bound to do this..he choosed to do this because the other was of negotiations to peace was not happening..so eren decided to go 'I al atomic'...
I'm confident Grisha changed when Zeke turned him in. Remember his complete emotional breakdown when Kruger tells him to inherit that Titan? Yup, that's what makes me think so
Understanding the Attack Titan and how it can affect memory is so crazy. It feels so tragic that Eren saw his own future back in Season 3 and saw the path he would have to go down. It’s an interesting take on time travel and freedom of choice.
16:02 It’s simpler that that. Eren has the founding Titan. The founder allows for Eren to influence the past, since the coordinate and the paths exist outside of time. If another attack titan ever controlled the founder, then they could also enact their will on history. But that never happened.
Kruger's "if you want to save Mikasa and Armin" memory may have come from Grisha. It's word-for-word what Grisha said when he injected Eren. Kruger also told Grisha to find someone to love within the walls, as if he'd already seen Grisha's future memories. All this to point out that Eren isn't the only Attack Titan to send memories back.
that was a lot!! seen it for the 1st time shook me to my core I was like wtf just happened. I understand ange feeling this way especially that eren is his favorite character but with everything eren went through and the tole of all these memories, him changing isn't really strange, I watched this season until episode 22 and stopped to continue with you guys so happy you guys made it 🤩
Your words ANGE fit the descripton of what is happening in the show i couldnt phrase it better myself . "EREN has seen the only path for saving his people", "EREN doing everything for armin and mikasa" AND "show has done a good job of VILLAINIZING EREN"
Grisha's tragic stories His sister died and his parents cover it up His first son betrays him His first wife and all of his comrades are turned into titans in front of him His second wife was eaten by his first wife And now.. his second son manipulated him He is a character who suffers a lot That's was heartbreaking.. oh my god 😭
For someone so obsessed with the idea of freedom, having the attack titan would be the worst possible punishment. How could anyone possibly be free if the future is a known thing, no matter what he does every step he takes is guided by his future self. Doomed to walk in his own footsteps. Or to quote Eren "Those that push their own backs experience a different kind of hell" I feel like by the end he no longer believes there's hope, fate is real, freedom is a delusion. He just gives into the rage and directs his vengeance to the world that caused it to be possible. The only care is that he's not including his friends in that vengeance.
Zeke drags Eren into Grishas memories to change Eren's mind. Eren: Look at me, I'm the captain now 😎 By taking Eren into the memories, Zeke unwittingly made the entire show happen. If Eren hadn't been there to convince Grisha to follow through on taking the Founding from the Reiss, the Warriors (Reiner and co) would have succeeded and wiped out Paradis from the inside while Frieda was unable/unwilling to fight back. Eren was behind everything. All along.
In my eyes Eren didn't start it all It was marlin how set the stones into motion. By breaking the walls If marlin never sent the child soldiers eren's dad would not have a reason to get the founding Titans power. Because Eren's his mom wouldn't have died and Eren wouldn't have needed that power to save every in the second wall by closing it up. Eren did give his dad the attack titan power back on the walls. To save Armin and Mikasa before they where born.
That's the thing, everyone in this show have killed people, saddly, that's how cruel the AOT world is. Everyone is fighting for what they believe it's the "right" thing to do. And i really love how the anime gives you a lot of perspectives. The writing is amazing.
What a treat, I watched the last reaction a day ago, got appendicitis, got my appendix removed, came home and now I have another reaction to watch. And it's my favorite episode. Beautiful.
Honestly yeah! For most of the season, I held onto the hope that it was all a fluke and Eren would reveal a grand scheme that would sit right with me, but after this episode I realised that I was wrong and I should just let go lol. Just wait till you see the next episode too. Great reaction guys! Really love hearing your thoughts and listening to you guys discuss.
I am not sure and correct me if I am wrong but, when the attack on Marley happened eren said now or never Mikasa without seeing her and she appears behind him so I guess he saw that scene before , there is so much cool shit about this ability in this show and it’s kinda explain Erens strange behavior.
Some time ago I read a comment that said that Eren is the son that Grisha would have wanted in Marley and Zeke the son that he would have wanted in Eldia
Im an anime only like you guys. I also had that question also about why only eren was like able to influence the past attack titans. Remember that kruger and grisha has always been saying that the attack titan “has always been fighting for freedom”. This means that eren’s will is so strong that the past attack titans would want to obey eren’s will. Now, this would pop out a follow up question, “then why hasnt the further future inheritors of the attack titan influence eren and the others???” -the only possible answer is, “is because eren is gonna be the last attack titan”. It would be so much of a plothole if eren isnt the last one. Now, remember that if a titan shifter dies without passing it on, a newborn will inherit it, but we already established that eren is the last attack titan, therefore, somehow, eren will end the titan bloodline or wish to ymir to stop people from becoming titans anymore or any other way. This has got to be the ending of aot. Thanks if you read
One of the reasons i like your reactions is just because of Anges view on the world and morals. I agree with literally everything you said so far and especially what you said in this episode.
its absolutely amazing when you rewatch the previous seasons after watching S4 or after reading the manga. You'll notice little nuances that at first watch, didn't mean anything, but now knowing what you know, it just means so much more. One example is after the battle in Trost and the soldiers we're cleaning up and gathering the dead bodies. There was a scene that lasted for like 3 seconds, where Annie was saying 'i'm sorry' while looking at the pile of dead people. At first you'll think she's saying sorry because they died, but she's actually apologizing since they died because of her/them doing their mission.
When he kissed historia's hand, he saw himself, from his fathers POV, manipulating his father. Thats why he looked so messed up ever since then. Eren is someone who values freedom more than anything, and he learned that, nevermind freedom, he doesn't even have _free will_ as his future is already determined.
I don't know about that "future is already determined part". There might be some limit and that limit would be Eren himself. If Eren only wanted the founding Titan, Grisha could've easily given to what Eren wants but no, Eren wants Frieda's siblings killed too. It might have to do with one of Eren's valued friends - Historia, her future, her queenship, her charity for abandoned kids, her safety and political influence and position in power, etc.. I think Eren already changed some of the past that would benefit his friends and what we are currently seeing right now is the best path that Eren sees for his friends and his people.
@@RyzenShanks Well heres what we know, future Eren influenced Grisha without (at that time) present Eren's knowledge. So that at that time was not Erens will influencing that time. That was a future event influencing the past. As the literal ability is _future holders send whatever memories they want to previous holders_. Meaning the future, relative to the present, influences the past. There are two possible logical conclusions of this. 1. There are infinite parallel universes all with time slightly offset, and Grisha is actually being influenced by a near identical Eren from a parralel universe. This would mean that, in any given timeline, that timelines individual future is not inherently set, but is influenced by timelines which are moving along side them, slightly ahead in time. 2. There is one timeline, and in this timeline, the timelines own future influences the timelines past, meaning for the past to have been influenced, the future must have already been determined at that given point. Most people go with conclusion 2, as it fits in best with the ideas about freedom (or lack there of)
@@felix_patriot How does number 2 work if the timeline is linear succession of events. Why does the future Eren (having the founding titan) still need to influence the hesitating Grisha in the past just to get the founding Titan? If future Eren didn't do it, he would still have it in another way right?
@@RyzenShanks Its not linear. Dont confuse "1 timeline" for "1 linear timeline". Since the future is already determined, every decision everyone would ever make was calculated from the very beginning of the universe, and therefore since it was all essentially _written at the same time, destined to happen,_ there can be interaction between future and past without a paradox.
I've been preparing this comment for quite some time to explain what happened here. Trust me, this is worth reading and ofc, without spoilers (also, there will not be any other explanation in the following episodes up until the end so...). Two thousand years ago, the titans were born from the powers of Ymir and in the previous episode, Zeke told us that she is a slave of the royal family for unknown reasons (at least for now). In this episode, Grisha tells us that the attack titan was created to fight the king's self-righteousness and that Frieda (the royal family) was unaware of it. In other words, Ymir would have created the attack titan behind the back of the royal family. We know that each primordial can see the memories of its predecessors (Porco seeing Marcel's memories or Armin with Bertholdt). But, in this episode, we learned that the attack titan has the power to read the memories of its future holders. This power, only Eren discovered it... When? How?. The response is simple: by mistake. When Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his father killing the royal family but he also saw his father chatting with Zeke and his future self. The power of the attack titan is not to see the future directly but simply to observe the memories of the next holder if this one accepts it. For example, at the end of the episode, Grisha does not see Zeke, he sees himself, facing Zeke, from Eren's point of view. You can see Eren as a camera where he can choose, whenever he wants, to share his current vision to his predecessors. Then, to "know" the future, he has to share his vision to the predecessors and then see in Grisha's memories what's going to happen. There can only be one future (obviously). So when Eren decided to share his memories, he writes history, and the future cannot change anymore, otherwise his memories could not be transmitted to others and history would change. It's fate. When Eren shows his memories, he transmits them to all his predecessors simultaneously. Now you know why Eren was saying "TATAKAE" in front of the mirror: he was actually sharing his memories and using the mirror so that his predecessors can see him. Try to imagine: the first person gets the attack titan two thousand years ago and sees Eren telling him "fight, if you don't fight, you can't win". Apart from this person, all those who inherited this titan thought they were seeing the memories of the first owner, when in fact, they were seeing the memories of the last owner of this titan. Exactly, Eren must be the last attack titan, because if there is a new one, he could share is memories to change history and that is not possible. To be precise, Grisha was also aware of the impact of the future on his time. When Eren shared his memories, by "mistake", he revealed the presence of Zeke. From this moment, Grisha start understanding the power of the attack titan. Another thing: Now, we know why Eren Kruger said "To save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else, you must see it through.". In fact, everyone who had the attack titan knew they had to save Mikasa and Armin, but they didn't know it was future memories. -------> To be clear: the moment the attack titan was created by Ymir, the whole story was written and could not be changed. To understand how the story is written, you have to admit that the story is written from the end. Okay, so Eren wants freedom for him and his friends. When he thinks he got that freedom, he shares his memories and the past can't change. In fact: two thousand years of history has been written at that exact moment. Inevitably, we are going to the future that Eren saw, and no one can change a thing. If for example, Eren wanted to be a pizza maker (yeah...), the attack titan goal would not be to fight the king's self-righteousness, but to make pizza and the history would have been different. That's because Eren wants freedom that every holder of the attack titan wanted freedom as well. Eren Kruger told us on the wall that Grisha was "chosen" to have the attack titan. In fact, this titan is transmitted each time to someone revolutionary. Indeed, if someone revolutionary has the attack titan, he will want to bequeath it to someone who shares his revolutionary ideas and that's how the titan has travelled through history to "fight" the royal line. It's funny to see that Zeke thought that Eren was being manipulated by his father, when we learn that Eren was manipulating two thousand years of history ^^. The story is actually a loop: Grisha steals the founding titan -> Grisha gives both titans to Eren -> Eren can attack Marley -> He can "kidnap" Zeke -> they can "touch" each other -> they can travel in Grisha's memory -> Eren can "contact" Grisha through memories and tell him to steal the founding titan -> ... (loop) This is the ultimate paradox of Attack on Titan. You can't find a beginning to the story except from the end. Another paradox: Eren ordered Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> So he's going to look for his daughter (Historia) -> he will get killed by her -> She will become the new Queen of Eldia -> Eren will kiss her hand for the presentation of survey corps medals -> So he can look at his father's memories and see himself ordering to Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> ... (loop) Here is my last point: When Zeke wanted to use his scream, Eren said "Wait!". At first sight, we can think that Eren hesitates and does not want to lose the people dear to him (Pixis for example). It's not that at all. Eren tells him to wait a second, so that Falco, his brother (Colt) and Gabi can arrive and do their dialogue. Once Zeke uses his scream, he orders Falco to "defend" Eren. That's what allows Eren's run. Also, without that little second, Gabi wouldn't be there and couldn't shoot Eren. Since Eren kissed Historia's hand, there are many details like that and I encourage you all to watch AOT again to find out more. Thanks you for reading this, AND LOVE YOU TWO ;)
That little comment from Grisha during the episode while he's talking to Frieda "My wife, son, and daughter" just really hits. Grisha only had Mikasa in his life for a single year at the point but he considered her a daughter, cared for her in a way he hadn't cared for any other little girl since his sister was killed. Heartstrings have been pulled, the ninjas are cutting onions.
True, but its also easy to see how every else (except Gabi and Eren) have learned from their choices, or other peoples choices, and want or wish to be better or make better choices. While Eren seems to be escalating the cycle of violence, or causing history to repate itself on a bigger scale. Zeke was trying to break the cycle. We don't know what Eren is doing in this episode other than not supporting Euthanasia plan and forcing Grisha and Kruger to make the choices that lead to this episode. With all the double fakes and plot twists thrown into the story, I doubt we will know before the end of series.
@@surgrus4367 Go read the fcking MANGO! Nahh kidding, well its clearly shown how Grisha and Kruger were being manipulated by Eren's memories. We also know that all Shredded users fought for freedom that is an acknowledgement that Eren had something to do with it. I am also sure he somehow controlled Dina's Titan form to ignore Berutoruto and eat his own mother
@@mrsuperselenio5694 bro delete that last part! Ive read everything, but i still havent found clear proof that Eren manipulated all Shredded titans, ofc we see him break down his father, but not Kruger. Please point me to the clear evidence that Kruger was manipulated
In regard to Ange's question about it being when we turned our back to Eren: to me there is a huge difference between hating Eren and hating what he's doing. Personally I hate what he's doing and I can't root for him to succeed in what he's planning to do. But I still love him to bits! He's gone through so much, I understand where he's coming from, I'm convinced he himself hate what he's doing (like Ange said, that's why he was asking Hange to show him another way), but still feels he has to do it. My heart breaks for him, to me he's the second most tragic character in AoT.
@@kaidothedragon2821ymir fritz? I don’t really think it’s an opinion to say she’s suffered the most. She has been a slave making titans for 2000 years in a realms where a few seconds feel like years. That’s easily trillions of years suffering for nothing. Not even to mention her life before paths. It doesn’t even compare
I'm sad you seemed to have missed the part where Grisha tells Eren about the key and the basement. He's actually looking at grown-up Eren while saying it. The logical thing would be to either look at the key, or young Eren while speaking. But he's looking straight ahead and grown-up Eren is looking back at him.
When Shasa die Eren laughs and began to lament moments after, because he understands that the future, that he saw in his future memories, can't be changed
15:38 So, the Attack Titan's ability is that he can have glimpses of the future of its NEXT inheritor. So, Kruger could only have glimpses of Grisha's future and Grisha could only have glimpses of Eren's future. This means it wasn't Eren that spoke to Grisha through Kruger but Grisha himself. The first time we heard the phrase "If you want to save Armin and Mikasa..." was when Kruger was talking to Grisha in the wall. The second time was when Grisha gave Eren the Attack Titan in the forest. Now, if Eren said that to Grisha and Grisha showed that to Kruger that's not only mind-boggling but it actually opens many doors for discussion.
Discussion in the end was amazing....,imagine if Daenerys Targaryen had similar character development before going batshit crazy, GOT would've been my favorite series.
right at the door when Grisha is holding the key to his chest, in the memory where eren wants to join the scouts. Grisha is talking and not looking at his family but he is looking directly at future Eren, like he is talking directly to him. Pretty awesome stuff.
More and more the series goes on, Eren seems to go from main protagonist to main antagonist. It's kind of the opposite for Zeke. We saw all of Eren's evolution from season 1 to now. From season 1 to 3: Eren is the reason to be able to save humanity against the titans and to be able to face the higher grade titan, the Beast Titan. Season 4: Zeke has to stop Eren somehow. Knowing the Attack (shredded) Titan's ability, we can understand why Kruger said to Grisha: If you want to save Armin and Mikasa! Then seems confused about who's memories are those. It was Grisha or Eren's memories. Great reactions as usual! This episode was very emotional. It's kind of hard to believe to feel so sorry for Zeke or even cried for him, mostly since when we know about the Beast titan from season 2. Keep up the great work! 🤗
This for me makes Aot initially the best Show ever. Even before it has to be a top3 one just off the mindblows u get later S3, but this ep especially...holy crap. I was soo scared in the moment ''to be continued'' came. Bc last pic u saw was Eren looking down like a Demon. This Ep has no actionscene but even so it builds extreme tension and feels breathtaking all through. Reflecting old stories and situations from now on, just to later find out that Eren was like a Ghost, standing behind and directing the Story we all thought was the story just got the biggest Plottwist i've seen so far. How do you have 15Stories layered in Episode 1, but Isayama lets us think, we watch just one story from Season1-3. Never seen that, awesome buildup. SoOOOOO happy you uploaded today i really thought you would take a break today xo Future Eren already stands beneath them.
Cool little detail: Whenever Grisha can "see" Zeke, Eren is actually positioned behind both of them looking at them, so Grisha isnt actually "seeing" Zeke, rather he can see Eren's memories of seeing both of them. Its the same with when Eren talked to Grisha. Eren can actually control what memories get sent to Grisha and what don't, thats why Grisha asks why Eren won't show if Carla and Mikasa were safe, because Eren chose not to as leverage for Grisha to do what he wanted. So finally, when Eren was talking to Grisha, he was simply sending memories to the past of him speaking. Its really interesting once you start understanding the whole "memories of the future" thing
This is brain freezing.. I can't.
Nicely Explained
Wow.... 😲
A very good explanation, but I wouldn’t say that this is a little detail it’s very important to understand for this episode cuz I feel like they didn’t quite get it. Your explanation clears how all past-future conversations are happening.
Also what Eren said to provoke Grisha is the same monologue said by Kruger before handing his Titan to Grisha..
I will forever remember grisha's voice acting here. The best of the best
I don know why some people will watch English dub……
Fr this ep is top 3 aot episode for me
It made the whole scene it was everything
@@Daily659 cuz they are fart brain who don't like to read subs
same!
"Protect Mikasa and Armin". This was our first clue, but I don't think any of us really understood the actual complications of those words at the time. Such masterful story writing.
That line was said by Grisha, though. So he was sending memories to the past as well.
@@marcusgaius
Or Kruger just saw Grisha's memories
Nahh, our first clue was the first scene of the first episode of the first season, lol
@@JollibeenosHasYourCoordinates That's not how the AT works. It's not like with other shifters, where you can just see memories. Here the future inheritor must choose to send them back. Otherwise, it works the same.
Technically, it's possible that Eren sent it, too, as he witnessed the moment.
@@tey5471 💀lmao
One other crazy thing to think about is the fact that, in a way, Eren told his dad, through Kruger, to go have a family and have him.
Not completely sure if that was something forced by Eren himself, but it would be pretty trippy if it were
Eren mindcontrolled Issayama to write him
nah that was completely kruger and the line about saving armin and mikasa was actually something grisha said in season 1
@@j_official4138 nope because the attack titan actually don't have the ability to see future...the future inherited should allow the past inheriter to see the future...and Kruger never was sure why he even said to protect Mikasa and Armin...it was like someone told Kruger to say that...eren Yeager really is the most amazing and complex character in the series
No, that was just Kruger.
Grishas voice actor man, insanity
Check out the dub, Chris Hury did a great job as well
Zeke really thought he was doing something when he brought Eren into Grisha's memories. He was not ready.
no one was ready
except Eren, of course
Yes he was doing something
: helping eren 💀 🤣
Mans said “you thought I was locked in here with you but you’re locked in here with me”
fun fact: they actually spent years worth of time looking back thru grisha’s memories. all happening in an instant
Yes just like when Zeke was in the coordinate
Does that means they also saw the memory of grisha banging Carla?
@امير مادرا bruh you're trying a lil bit too hard to Troll
But no one is caring about ur reply on every comment 😂
anywayss.............. have a good day tho
@@joen4287 i mean reiner is a goated character too
@@ameerioo4757 ooh yess he iss
No comments in that
I was just saying that he was trying to Troll people by saying a character is goat and all to trigger others 😂
Someone give Hiroshi Tsuchida, Grisha's VA, an award. He owns absolutely every episode he's in. That Day, Sole Salvation, and now Memories of the Future. Absolutely heartbreaking performances.
And to clarify, when Eren killed the human traffickers as a child, that was ALL him. He hadn't inherited the Attack Titan from Grisha yet. Eren's always had a screw loose.
And when Grisha asks Zeke to stop Eren, he's saying that because he's already seen the future of what Eren's done. He even mentions that he couldn't believe how terrible a future it was.
I haven't finished the manga so please don't spoil me. I believe in aot the future is written. Even if you don't inherit the titan you are technically linked to it because the future is set. I believe eren manipulated Krueger to let Dina get converted and to pass the titan to grisha so the events of S1 to 3 happen, giving eren the drive and rage to save the world.
A screw loose? You mean based ideology
I swear since season 1, its not just Grisha VA that did an excellent Job. The entire cast team did an amazing. Voice acting in Attack On Titan is an other level and its one of the reason why Aot was 4 of the top 10 best series in the world. GG for the cast team
Your clarification is kinda wrong.
Spoiler beneath.
In the first chapter; and iirc the first episode, Eren does see the whole story.
Being a subject of Ymir, he is tied to path, and we know the path transcend space and time to link all subjetcs of Ymir. We know that, through the path, all titan users can get access to previous users, since they are all linked. Now, we also know that Ymir and, therefore, the founder when used with royal blood, can literally do whatever it wants with said subjects, can easily send memories back in time.
Hence the theory of determinism, and the fact that Eren was never really free.
@@patatebanine4278 honestly next to grisha, eren's voice acting is one of my favorites for aot. His jp voice actor normally irl has a rather high pitched and really cute and friendly voice, and he did such a good job bringing eren to life, from childhood to adulthood, his hope and despair and rage, everything. Eren's such a roller coaster of a character and he nailed it, couldn't have asked for a better eren voice. Apart from eren and grisha, i also really love the voice acting for zeke, reiner, gabi and falco, levi's voice acting in his OVA was really heartbreaking too (yknow, THAT scene)
(just to clarify in case I get attacked by hardcore fanatics, just bc the charas I listed have my favorite voice acting in the show doesn't mean i think everyone else sucked, i just like how these characters really portray a wide array of emotions in their voices)
Your first instinct was correct Ange! Eren saw himself through Grisha's memories when he kissed Historia's hand. It's the same way Grisha saw Zeke in the basement, he was seeing Eren's memories of the future, of Eren and Zeke in his own memories!
To be more precise, Eren did not see himself the same way Grisha saw Zeke, cause Grisha saw Zeke through Eren's memories because Zeke was in Eren field of view, while Eren saw himself through Grisha's memories cause in those memories he actually saw the memories of himself (Eren) being there watching the scene, there's an extra step, therefore the title "memories of the future" maeks even more sense, cause in grisha's memories he saw memories of the future himself.
@@cianchetto4 man my brain is steaming even thought I knew that already. Try telling this to a person that has never see AoT lol.
wibblywobbly timeywimey
@@cianchetto4 Keep in mind Eren has to send the memory back to Grisha for Grisha to hear him. So in that moment, Grisha is actually seeing things from Eren's point of view. So when Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his dad's past memory from Eren's future point of view. So theoretically, Eren does see the memory from his own perspective
I think you guys completely missed the fact that grisha was looking at future eren in ep 1 when telling younger eren about the basement. Grisha was staring outside when telling eren about the basement in ep 1 and now we get to see he was actually looking at future eren at that time
Rather, Grisha was looking at himself through the eyes of Eren and his memories, and knew that must mean Eren has to be standing there to make that memory.
@@IceMaverick13 yeah, I forgot to mention that
@@IceMaverick13 holy sheretas, that's crazy, really
In episode 1 we don't see where grisha is looking. In the manga we see he isn't looking at young eren, but the anime decided not to show grishas face
@@kevinhoage164 yeah I resent WIT for animating that scene like that, it gets some anime onlies confused but in the manga it's really clear that grisha is looking outside
Eren won the "Best Protagonist" and "Best Antagonist" award in 2022
Also best writer, Best main Character, Support Character, Background Character and Best animator award😂
@@mrsuperselenio5694 Best genocider too🤣
The best part? The nominator is Eren.
And he deserves both
@@hessiankyojin NSJSGSJSH TRU
Remember what Berthold said in S3? It was something like: "you guys have done nothing wrong and you aren't devils either. It's just that you still need to die here" and then later "the world is just this cruel". That summarizes this whole show, sadly there's no happy middle... You gotta make a choice and wherever side you pick, people must be killed in order to achieve your objectives.
Man, Bertholdt was the one who truly understood AOT's world first, such an underrated character
AOT is like a world where doing evil to fight evil is necessary. Armin said it long ago multiple times back in season 1 "in order to overcome monsters, one must toss aside their humanity". He isn't talking about Eren but Armin should be the one to understand Eren better than anyone because they somehow believe in this but Armin wasn't able to maintain this belief later on.
@@RyzenShanks agree
I think you're underestimating how many fans are supportive of Eren.
That's true, probably half of the fandom does or even a little bit more
Yeah. Supporters of Eren alone is many, if combine it with the other Jaegerists, it's even more.
Yh I'm one of them. I mean I'd rather kill than be killed.
@@bluedragon1181 facts these stupid people expect you to lay down and watch everyone you know get slaughtered
#TeamRumbling #Jaegerists
That was the moment we realized Eren was indeed disgusted with his father and did lose his respect, but not for the reasons Zeke thought. Zeke thought Eren was disgusted by the murder of the royal children--instead he found out Eren was disgusted that his father wouldn't do it faster and second-guessed himself. His father let his humanity get in the way of his mission: and Eren's not having it.
You make that sounds band for Grish and good of Eren... Are you also pure evil like Eren???
I thought he was disgusted by what grisha did but he still encouraged him to do it because he had to for his goals
@@jyjaeskz Nah, he was disgusted at Grisha for pussying out.
i think eren just lied bro eren clearly said he was disgusted with his dad smearing dead children all around which was the lie.
@@Edd211 evil like eren tf bro
Its alright ange a lot of people love him, infact he is the voted best protagonist and antagonist this year.
I still laugh at that... Crunchy roll doesn't know what protagonist means
@@azmalftw He’s a protagonist for his people bruh
@@azmalftw he is the protagonist though. He's a villain protagonist
He is an anti-villain protagonist (same for Light from Death Note, Ragna from Blazblue, Caius from FF13-2, Lelouch from Code Geass, etc.)
@@TechnoArpan yes but a protagonist can't be an antagonist as well... A protagonist can be a villain but can't be an antagonist
when Grisha hugs Zeke.... damn, it always gets me, the music, the voice acting, it's a mix of so much emotions I can't help but tear up a little
Same
Eren whispered in Isayama's ear and told him to write this story
On a serious note, it's really scary how Grisha, someone who was so anti-Marley and pro-Eldia, saw one glimpse of Eren's plan and was like, "Zeke. You have to stop him." Despite Grisha's hate for Marley and how far he was willing to go, even HE thought his plan was too far. He was genuinely horrified. Whatever Eren's plan is, Grisha does not want it to happen.
Speaking of, Zeke and Grisha finally getting to work out their issues and hug each other in a moment of pure love is really heartwarming. Grisha understood his mistakes when raising Zeke before. Instead of only treating him as a tool, he treats him as his son. Zeke is finally able to take his first step towards closure after years of trauma. Even if they had their differences, Grisha and Zeke can at least agree with one thing: Stopping Eren.
The thing is, though, that Grisha changed his mind once he learned of Carla's death when he came back.
That was what pushed him to get Eren to inherit the Attack Titan, despite everything that Grisha knew was going to happen.
but why did Grisha give eren the attack titan if he wants him to be stopped?
@@husseinmoussa2947 he asks that in this episode itself."Eren will this save Eldia? "
@@husseinmoussa2947 as I said, he changed his mind once he learned that Carla died.
Bruh why you copypasting the same shit on different channels
I wrote that comment for another reaction channel to explain what happened here. I share this with you: trust me, this is worth reading and ofc, without spoilers (also, there will not be any other explanation in the following episodes up until the end so...).
Two thousand years ago, the titans were born from the powers of Ymir and in the previous episode, Zeke told us that she is a slave of the royal family for unknown reasons (at least for now). In this episode, Grisha tells us that the attack titan was created to fight the king's self-righteousness and that Frieda (the royal family) was unaware of it. In other words, Ymir would have created the attack titan behind the back of the royal family.
We know that each primordial can see the memories of its predecessors (Porco seeing Marcel's memories or Armin with Bertholdt). But, in this episode, we learned that the attack titan has the power to read the memories of its future holders. This power, only Eren discovered it... When? How?. The response is simple: by mistake. When Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his father killing the royal family but he also saw his father chatting with Zeke and his future self.
The power of the attack titan is not to see the future directly but simply to observe the memories of the next holder if this one accepts it. For example, at the end of the episode, Grisha does not see Zeke, he sees himself, facing Zeke, from Eren's point of view. You can see Eren as a camera where he can choose, whenever he wants, to share his current vision to his predecessors. Then, to "know" the future, he has to share his vision to the predecessors and then see in Grisha's memories what's going to happen.
There can only be one future (obviously). So when Eren decided to share his memories, he writes history, and the future cannot change anymore, otherwise his memories could not be transmitted to others and history would change. It's fate.
When Eren shows his memories, he transmits them to all his predecessors simultaneously. Now you know why Eren was saying "TATAKAE" in front of the mirror: he was actually sharing his memories and using the mirror so that his predecessors can see him.
Try to imagine: the first person gets the attack titan two thousand years ago and sees Eren telling him "fight, if you don't fight, you can't win". Apart from this person, all those who inherited this titan thought they were seeing the memories of the first owner, when in fact, they were seeing the memories of the last owner of this titan.
Exactly, Eren must be the last attack titan, because if there is a new one, he could share is memories to change history and that is not possible.
To be precise, Grisha was also aware of the impact of the future on his time. When Eren shared his memories, by "mistake", he revealed the presence of Zeke. From this moment, Grisha start understanding the power of the attack titan.
Another thing: Now, we know why Eren Kruger said "To save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else, you must see it through.". In fact, everyone who had the attack titan knew they had to save Mikasa and Armin, but they didn't know it was future memories.
-------> To be clear: the moment the attack titan was created by Ymir, the whole story was written and could not be changed. To understand how the story is written, you have to admit that the story is written from the end.
Okay, so Eren wants freedom for him and his friends. When he thinks he got that freedom, he shares his memories and the past can't change. In fact: two thousand years of history has been written at that exact moment. Inevitably, we are going to the future that Eren saw, and no one can change a thing.
If for example, Eren wanted to be a pizza maker (yeah...), the attack titan goal would not be to fight the king's self-righteousness with freedom, but with pizza and the history would have been different. That's because Eren wants freedom that every holder of the attack titan wanted freedom as well.
Eren Kruger told us on the wall that Grisha was "chosen" to have the attack titan. In fact, this titan is transmitted each time to someone revolutionary. Indeed, if someone revolutionary has the attack titan, he will want to bequeath it to someone who shares his revolutionary ideas and that's how the titan has travelled through history to "fight" the royal line.
It's funny to see that Zeke thought that Eren was being manipulated by his father, when we learn that Eren was manipulating two thousand years of history ^^.
The story is actually a loop:
Grisha steals the founding titan -> Grisha gives both titans to Eren -> Eren can attack Marley -> The can "kidnap" Zeke -> they can "touch" each other -> they can travel in Grisha's memory -> Eren can "contact" Grisha through memories and tell him to steal the founding titan -> ... (loop)
This is the ultimate paradox of Attack on Titan. You can't find a beginning to the story except from the end.
Another paradox:
Eren ordered Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> So he's going to look for his daughter (Historia) -> he will get killed by her -> She will become the new Queen of Eldia -> Eren will kiss her hand for the presentation of survey corps medals -> So he can look at his father's memories and see himself ordering to Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> ... (loop)
Here is my last point:
When Zeke wanted to use his scream, Eren said "Wait!". At first sight, we can think that Eren hesitates and does not want to lose the people dear to him (Pixis for example). It's not that at all. Eren tells him to wait a second, so that Falco, his brother (Colt) and Gabi can arrive and do their dialogue. Once Zeke uses his scream, he orders Falco to "defend" Eren. That's what allows Eren's run. Also, without that little second, Gabi wouldn't be there and couldn't shoot Eren.
Since Eren kissed Historia's hand, there are many details like that and I encourage you all to watch SNK again to find out more.
Thanks you for reading this, it is always with great pleasure that I like to discuss this masterpiece that is SNK.
They defo need to see this!
Exactly, great explanation!
Fair fuckin play that was a good explination
i read attack on titan to the end and this explaination goes through things even i missed. This is such a beautful explaination and Isayama is a amazing story teller. Ty
Perfectly put! From the beginning It's been not the memories of the FIRST Attack Titan shaping the future, but the memories of the LAST one who chose a specific path.
Ange: "Everyone has morally flawed ideals and views on how people should go about things..."
That's it, you've correctly described our world as well
Well thats not going change and i would even go that far and say that will never change. As longs as there is more than one person on this planet there will always be people who disagree and fight. I guess thats just how we humans are…
The best plot twist ever ❤️
Also Grisha’s VA should win Oscar on his performance.
Zeke looks at him like that, because he was the little brother he wants to save from his fathers indoctrination, all the while Grisha was a loving father and Eren the mastermind.
@امير مادرا i agree with you.
the entire final scene is literally like...a master class in animation like wtf.
its so gorgeous and the animation is so fluid and the voice acting is incredible, the shot compositions are insane, the music is crazy, the emotion is palpable....
its such a good episode. only gets BETTER FROM HERE too
nah it got worse, the ending fell off
This is the episode I thought of every time you guys theorized about like... teleportation, time travel, portals, etc. Knowing that TIME was going to become such a major a story element I was like holy shit they're on the right track!
Grisha stabbed the same hand that dragged Faye past the walls. After all, he was the one who “started this story.”
🤧
@@joaniewwh3502 exactly
@@joen4287 it hurts
@@joaniewwh3502 makes the two of us
what the hell, never noticed that
you guys after ep19: Maybe Eren knows something that Zeke doesn't?
Episode 20: yes he fucking does
and so much more XD
Both the two Erens told Grisha the same lines when faced with dilemma:
“You keep moving forward. Until death. Even after death. After all.. aren't you the one who started this story?”
Poor man you can clearly see Grisha's regret and anguish after the two erens pointed out he “started this story.” So he stabbed the very same hand that grabbed Faye past the walls..
I dont know, I think what this signified is that the "Eren Kruger" that said this to Grisha then, is our current Eren but through Kruger.
@@kaeldeleon could be interpreted that way as well, since Kruger is seeing Eren's memories.
What the hell. This is some new shi_t I just realised. This show is so good in hints and signs.
@@rationalmind3785 yeah, that's why I never get tired of rewatching it through people's yt reaction. Always gotta have a fresh pick up in every rewatch.
Even after death part such a strong line. We don;'t even know if Eren is alive, or if his will is moving forward after his own death, like the first kings.
I think supporting eren but not his actions is completely valid as we've been following his point of view since the very start of the show, and his actions aren't completely baseless either, horrible, but we can see how he came to this conclusion. Also he's just such an interesting and well written character that I just have to root for him
The story is well made that it puts the characters in desperate situations where they will be forced to do morally questionable acts but the only necessary one.
I support his actions 100%
@@JoseRamirez-ew7vq lol
I don't know, if you actually follow his character and don't ignore his faults simply because he is a protagonist, there are plenty of reasons to dislike Eren. Him being a rage monster that constantly spouts about devouring and genociding well before season 4 being some examples as to why. Many of the SEVERE RED FLAGS for Eren get written off by some because they simply think it is angst or - like many protagonists - he will "get over it". Eren never "gets over it".
@@Tyrantofthewind Eren being a rage monster prior to Season 4 is him just a beginner shifter for the attack titan. He tends to lose control over his emotions due to the trauma other titans and shifter have done to his mom, friends, comrades and other people. He already said it before, he doesn't think these criminals as humans but dangerous animals.
Ive always thought it would be IMPOSSIBLE to beat the sheer intensity and brilliance and emotion of an episode like Midnight Sun when Levi makes that messed up choice, but this episode....my god. The writing is such perfection. It's crazy how many interconnected storylines there are in Attack On Titan that would be MASTERFUL stories in their own right.
Attack On Titan probably counts as a modern epic in that sense.
This episode couldn't be more better. It's absolute perfection. And Grisha's VA is truly phenomenal. Unrivaled!!!
At the end grisha said that he saw eren's memories of what happens next and that it was terrible (u already know what that is at this point) and eren when he kissed historia's hand 4 years ago he saw grisha's memories and as a result seeing his own memories of the future, meaning he saw that "terrible thing" that's why he was so shocked back then.
Also, eren had to kill the reiss family to prevent them from getting back the founding titan.
Well to be fair most of them were terrible people anyway and they had to die one way or the other. If they didnt died there would be a high risk that one of them gets the founding titan back and erases alls Eldians memorys again and thus alls Edlains would die.
God that scene with grisha at the end breaks my heart every time
Love all your reactions. One note, when little Eren is talking about joining the Scouts and tells his dad "If we don't continue what they started it will all have been for nothing" is what made Grisha realize what he had to do. And Eren didn't control his father, he just reminded him in that moment that this had to be done, if he didnt kill the Reiss family all the lives lost before now, all the countless deaths would have been for nothing.
Exactly...they make it seem like eren is one puppetmaster...but to me it seems eren just shows them what is to come and they decide to go along (even though he doesn't show everything)
Cos even after greisha says stop eren to zeke, he still goes and gives eren the power...I think its cos after all that he saw the destruction and death of his wife and was like nah...eren take the power.
@@essiensamuel1816 Eren did not control them directly, but he definitely manipulated them, Grisha himself in this chapter asked him why he did not show him if his wife and mikasa were okay, he did not do it so that they make decisions only with the knowledge that Eren gave him
@@wilsonarenas7583 I get your point...but I don't think it'd have changed anything...he'd have probably been panicked and fucked it all up...he still found out his wife was dead a few moments later...I think eren not showing him the memory was even a mercy cos then he'd know it was his first wife who killed his new wife .. basically he'd have fucked it up
And when he finds out everything and is all caught up he eventually still decides to give the power to eren. Not entirely sure but I'm guessing that was still fully greishas choice.
Also I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure I remember greisha seemed angry and yelling at eren when he gave him the shot 😅
29:35 We never lost the old eren. Its just like eren said to zeke earlier in the episode: He has been like this from the beginning ever since he was born, we just failed to see the issues that comes from having that mindset in a world like theirs where the whole world is their enemy. At first, their whole world was just the walls and the titans outside of it but as we see in the end of season 3, it's much more than that. Their world was so much bigger than what they initially thought as well as the enemies trapping them in "their cage". Still facing the same reality of being trapped in a cage and the world being their enemy, Eren keeps moving forward and "for freedom, he fights".
Props to Girsha's VA. He really delivers the line with so much emotion. You can feel the regret and sadness in every line.
Ange speaking about still supporting Eren is 100% what I'm here for.
I'm here for the opposite. I wanna see Ange finally abandon his support of Eren.
Such a shame it will never happen...
Though...
@@angr2773 good lol
@@angr2773 y did I laugh!?!??!
@@angr2773 a shame !!!??? ITS AN OPINION respect other opinions wtf ? Not all people will think the same way u do people have different opinions
@Y94R delusional
Great reaction and discussion as always guys!
Kruger's quote about Armin and Mikasa weren't Eren's memories, but Grishas - when he injected Eren with the serum he said to him the same quote: "if you wanna save Armin and Mikasa, you must master this power!" (it was first shown when Eren's skeletal titan first appeared in S1).
OMFG, yes!!!! It may seem trivial, but what a fact!
I'm just realizing that every attack titan inheritor takes ITS OWN decisions influenced by future inheritor's memories.
wait but since grisha carries erens future memories those are erens memories that krüger and grisha saw? i thought eren showed them to them?
@@PeyloBeauty They saw what Eren let them see
@@AnibalAlvarez I was always so lost whenever there was this past-future-element in shows and movies. it really confuses me and whenever I think I finally got it, I didn't. I get that Eren let them see what he wants them to see so he has the control. But does that mean Eren let Grisha see what he saw during their trip through grishas past? bc grisha could see zeke through erens eyes but that means he let grisha see it right? there is just this thing that always confuses me: so, grisha saw what eren planned (while he was in the past) which can only be bc eren let him see it. eren could only manipulate grisha through zeke showing him grishas past so how come the past is exactly how eren manipulated it when he could only do so in the future? for example: eren told grisha to kill the kids when he went through grishas past. but before eren told him to do so during the past traveling, it has already happened? grisha killed the kids before eren got in contact with zeke to tell grisha to do so which confuses me so much. i must've missed an important aspect.
@@PeyloBeauty Eren needed Zeke for directly intervening in very specific moments... But most of the Eren's job was simply letting Griesha access his memories through years.
DO you remember Eren talking to the mirror saying "Tatakae!"? Clearly he was not talking to himself, but to Griesha, or even the Howl.
Eren drove the behaviour of all his previous inheritors. The single phrase that move the "Attack" Titan during all the history was "Attack!" (Tatakae!). Eren made sure that each and every one of them watch him say it. That's why talking to the mirror was fundamental.
Beside the Reiss massacre (which is a key event), Eren didn't really need to travel through his memories with Zeke. Indeed, it was Eren who let Zeke and Griesha close their cycle and forgive each other. Eren strategically stood up behind Griesha (like in the basement) so he could clearly see Zekke through his eyes. It was Eren who purposely made it possible!
Questioning if the kids had already died before Eren forced Griesha to kill them isn't worth it. It's a time travel paradox! The circle will repeat once and again.
The Attack Titans will to fight & longing for freedom that was mentioned long ago is Eren's Will influencing all of the previous Attack titans before him.
*That's why it seeks freedom, that's why it fights!*
That's just how strong Eren's Will & Drive is, He very existence has influenced countless other Attack Titans to this exact point in time long before he was even born.
Ironically, Zeke whose himself thought that the Vow of Renouncing War doesn't have the power over him. And here he is, saying the same thing as the royal family, doing the same thing as the royal family (he would rather Eldians to perish instead of fighting), agreeing with the royal's ideology.
Something that they missed about the kruger scene "you have to save mikasa and armin", that was a line grisha says to Eren just before he injecting Eren so its technically Grishas memory and not Erens
wait.. no that is all eren right? eren just shows them what he wants them to see? krüger and grisha both had erens future memories there i thought
Zeke thought his father was the devil and tried to save Eren from his influence. While trying to save, he realized that the real demon was Eren. What a masterpiece.
And Eren never would have become a devil in the first place if he never tried to save him, because Grisha wouldn't be able to kill the Royal family and get the founder
I like Ange still trying to see things from Eren's perspective. I think that's the whole point of the show, that there is no absolutely right answer. Ultimately how far would you go to save your world and everyone you love.
"Everyone's plan sucks."
Man speaking fact. Absolutely agree with it. I really can't understand people who said Zeke's plan is better or Eren's plan is better. Nah. They all are bad. The only justification to all of the plans here is "there is no other way/we have no choice"
And yes, even tho Eren has become villainous, doesn't mean he's the only big villain here. Zeke is getting sympathy because of his backstory and I totally understand that. I do too have sympathy for child Zeke. But there's just no way I'll ever forget that one moment when the beast massacred the scout and called it "Perfect game". He was literally toying with human's life, then some episodes later had the nerve to say "I saved lives" to Levi. Zeke has a good character arc, but he's just not a hero. And I totally disturbed by the fact how some people forgive Zeke so easily after his tragic backstory, but those same people still hating on Gabi to this day even after she had that great character's development.
Zekes plan is infinitely better than Mr. 3/10 wit’s 0 iq requiem.
@@ffRahz Zeke's plan is still genocide tho lol everyone's plan does suck.
I'm sorry, but comparing what Eren does to Zeke taking out military targets is a bit of a stretch. Where is your outrage for them feeding Bertholdt to Armin? A massively more disgusting moral offense than killing legit military forces. If you wanted to hit Zeke for something actually fucked up, it would be transforming people into Titans against their will. Not killing the scouts. People do morally questionable or outright atrocious things in real life and in this show for their own ends. But what those things are, and the scale, absolutely matters. And on both, Eren stands alone as the villain.
@@Tyrantofthewind arent warriors considered military units by marley standards????
@@Tyrantofthewind if someone forced you to do something horrible then the one who forced you is more at fault.
Eren will forever be my favorite character his story writing is amazing
Eren will forever be a KING
Eren is pure evil like A. Wesker
@@Edd211 eh i wouldnt say he's pure evil. Not to sugar coat what he did, but if he's evil he'd probably enjoyed the process much more
@Edu Alves He literally sacrificed himself and his happiness to build a different world for his friends and his people. It's true that only in that way they will be truly free. He just has the guts to do it no matter the hate he will get.
nah, he's a slave of the timeline itself, he's got no other choice
@@keane4464 it's not he was bound to do this..he choosed to do this because the other was of negotiations to peace was not happening..so eren decided to go 'I al atomic'...
I'm confident Grisha changed when Zeke turned him in. Remember his complete emotional breakdown when Kruger tells him to inherit that Titan? Yup, that's what makes me think so
Grisha had no hesitation once he learned of Carla's death
How much more is the man supposed to suffer
Understanding the Attack Titan and how it can affect memory is so crazy. It feels so tragic that Eren saw his own future back in Season 3 and saw the path he would have to go down. It’s an interesting take on time travel and freedom of choice.
16:02 It’s simpler that that. Eren has the founding Titan. The founder allows for Eren to influence the past, since the coordinate and the paths exist outside of time. If another attack titan ever controlled the founder, then they could also enact their will on history. But that never happened.
Kruger's "if you want to save Mikasa and Armin" memory may have come from Grisha. It's word-for-word what Grisha said when he injected Eren. Kruger also told Grisha to find someone to love within the walls, as if he'd already seen Grisha's future memories. All this to point out that Eren isn't the only Attack Titan to send memories back.
that was a lot!! seen it for the 1st time shook me to my core I was like wtf just happened. I understand ange feeling this way especially that eren is his favorite character but with everything eren went through and the tole of all these memories, him changing isn't really strange, I watched this season until episode 22 and stopped to continue with you guys so happy you guys made it 🤩
Your words ANGE fit the descripton of what is happening in the show i couldnt phrase it better myself .
"EREN has seen the only path for saving his people", "EREN doing everything for armin and mikasa" AND "show has done a good job of VILLAINIZING EREN"
I love how much more solem Ange and Carlie are here. Awesome reaction guys. Can't wait for the next one. Minor spoiler next episode is next level.
Eren: Aren’t you the one who started this story?
Eren: SYKE!!!!
“Why is Zeke looking at Eren as if he’s this outrageous monster”
If only they knew 😂😂😂
Grisha's tragic stories
His sister died and his parents cover it up
His first son betrays him
His first wife and all of his comrades are turned into titans in front of him
His second wife was eaten by his first wife
And now.. his second son manipulated him
He is a character who suffers a lot
That's was heartbreaking.. oh my god 😭
For someone so obsessed with the idea of freedom, having the attack titan would be the worst possible punishment.
How could anyone possibly be free if the future is a known thing, no matter what he does every step he takes is guided by his future self. Doomed to walk in his own footsteps.
Or to quote Eren "Those that push their own backs experience a different kind of hell"
I feel like by the end he no longer believes there's hope, fate is real, freedom is a delusion. He just gives into the rage and directs his vengeance to the world that caused it to be possible.
The only care is that he's not including his friends in that vengeance.
Zeke drags Eren into Grishas memories to change Eren's mind.
Eren: Look at me, I'm the captain now 😎
By taking Eren into the memories, Zeke unwittingly made the entire show happen. If Eren hadn't been there to convince Grisha to follow through on taking the Founding from the Reiss, the Warriors (Reiner and co) would have succeeded and wiped out Paradis from the inside while Frieda was unable/unwilling to fight back.
Eren was behind everything. All along.
In my eyes Eren didn't start it all
It was marlin how set the stones into motion.
By breaking the walls
If marlin never sent the child soldiers eren's dad would not have a reason to get the founding Titans power.
Because Eren's his mom wouldn't have died and Eren wouldn't have needed that power to save every in the second wall by closing it up.
Eren did give his dad the attack titan power back on the walls.
To save Armin and Mikasa before they where born.
@@sownheard even after editing ur comment u didn't managed to correct it 💀, but ur eng is fine
I've seen worse
Nah this whole story started with the creation of the Attack Titan and his special power.
my fav episode!! i was so mind blown after watching it
That's the thing, everyone in this show have killed people, saddly, that's how cruel the AOT world is. Everyone is fighting for what they believe it's the "right" thing to do. And i really love how the anime gives you a lot of perspectives. The writing is amazing.
What a treat, I watched the last reaction a day ago, got appendicitis, got my appendix removed, came home and now I have another reaction to watch. And it's my favorite episode. Beautiful.
Honestly yeah! For most of the season, I held onto the hope that it was all a fluke and Eren would reveal a grand scheme that would sit right with me, but after this episode I realised that I was wrong and I should just let go lol. Just wait till you see the next episode too.
Great reaction guys! Really love hearing your thoughts and listening to you guys discuss.
the smoke in the shape of the coordinate is such a lit detail to add
I am not sure and correct me if I am wrong but, when the attack on Marley happened eren said now or never Mikasa without seeing her and she appears behind him so I guess he saw that scene before , there is so much cool shit about this ability in this show and it’s kinda explain Erens strange behavior.
After hearing your reaction it's my first time thinking about the next attack titan omg this could literally changed all. Thank u.
Some time ago I read a comment that said that Eren is the son that Grisha would have wanted in Marley and Zeke the son that he would have wanted in Eldia
Everytime i see this scene i always cry about it its so emotional omg
Im an anime only like you guys.
I also had that question also about why only eren was like able to influence the past attack titans. Remember that kruger and grisha has always been saying that the attack titan “has always been fighting for freedom”. This means that eren’s will is so strong that the past attack titans would want to obey eren’s will.
Now, this would pop out a follow up question, “then why hasnt the further future inheritors of the attack titan influence eren and the others???” -the only possible answer is, “is because eren is gonna be the last attack titan”. It would be so much of a plothole if eren isnt the last one.
Now, remember that if a titan shifter dies without passing it on, a newborn will inherit it, but we already established that eren is the last attack titan, therefore, somehow, eren will end the titan bloodline or wish to ymir to stop people from becoming titans anymore or any other way. This has got to be the ending of aot.
Thanks if you read
As a manga reader myself , I have to say that's a good analysis from u
@@azmalftw hmmmm i don’t know where i hit the bulls eye but dont tell me 😅 and thanks!
@@ruscul7155 yeah don't worry I won't spoil anything... Next season will be one of the best if adapted properly
@@azmalftw maybe if AOE happens.
@@azmalftw yeah. Still wont read manga. Im gonna wait for the anime. 😅
One of the reasons i like your reactions is just because of Anges view on the world and morals. I agree with literally everything you said so far and especially what you said in this episode.
Also Grisha was never as cold-blooded as Eren or Kruger, he even felt disgusted about the guy who fed his sister to dogs getting eaten by a titan.
yep, eren also felt no remorse when he killed many children while grisha went crazy about it right
Fun fact: Eren Yeager was nominated for both best protagonist and antagonist of the year at crunchyrole anime awards.
My favorite episode for this part of the season hands down.
its absolutely amazing when you rewatch the previous seasons after watching S4 or after reading the manga. You'll notice little nuances that at first watch, didn't mean anything, but now knowing what you know, it just means so much more. One example is after the battle in Trost and the soldiers we're cleaning up and gathering the dead bodies. There was a scene that lasted for like 3 seconds, where Annie was saying 'i'm sorry' while looking at the pile of dead people. At first you'll think she's saying sorry because they died, but she's actually apologizing since they died because of her/them doing their mission.
When he kissed historia's hand, he saw himself, from his fathers POV, manipulating his father. Thats why he looked so messed up ever since then. Eren is someone who values freedom more than anything, and he learned that, nevermind freedom, he doesn't even have _free will_ as his future is already determined.
I don't know about that "future is already determined part". There might be some limit and that limit would be Eren himself. If Eren only wanted the founding Titan, Grisha could've easily given to what Eren wants but no, Eren wants Frieda's siblings killed too. It might have to do with one of Eren's valued friends - Historia, her future, her queenship, her charity for abandoned kids, her safety and political influence and position in power, etc.. I think Eren already changed some of the past that would benefit his friends and what we are currently seeing right now is the best path that Eren sees for his friends and his people.
@@RyzenShanks Well heres what we know, future Eren influenced Grisha without (at that time) present Eren's knowledge. So that at that time was not Erens will influencing that time. That was a future event influencing the past. As the literal ability is _future holders send whatever memories they want to previous holders_.
Meaning the future, relative to the present, influences the past.
There are two possible logical conclusions of this.
1. There are infinite parallel universes all with time slightly offset, and Grisha is actually being influenced by a near identical Eren from a parralel universe. This would mean that, in any given timeline, that timelines individual future is not inherently set, but is influenced by timelines which are moving along side them, slightly ahead in time.
2. There is one timeline, and in this timeline, the timelines own future influences the timelines past, meaning for the past to have been influenced, the future must have already been determined at that given point.
Most people go with conclusion 2, as it fits in best with the ideas about freedom (or lack there of)
@@felix_patriot How does number 2 work if the timeline is linear succession of events. Why does the future Eren (having the founding titan) still need to influence the hesitating Grisha in the past just to get the founding Titan? If future Eren didn't do it, he would still have it in another way right?
@@RyzenShanks Its not linear. Dont confuse "1 timeline" for "1 linear timeline". Since the future is already determined, every decision everyone would ever make was calculated from the very beginning of the universe, and therefore since it was all essentially _written at the same time, destined to happen,_ there can be interaction between future and past without a paradox.
if you find this kind of stuff interesting, i would recommend reading up on predeterminism.
our boy become the biggest villain for the whole time. freakin plot twist.
It makes the scene when Sasha does a lot sadder because his laughing is like a realization that the future is set in stone
Nice that yall have kept such a consistent schedule with your uploads. Can't wait for your Part 3 reactions. Love you both! ❤️
I've been preparing this comment for quite some time to explain what happened here. Trust me, this is worth reading and ofc, without spoilers (also, there will not be any other explanation in the following episodes up until the end so...).
Two thousand years ago, the titans were born from the powers of Ymir and in the previous episode, Zeke told us that she is a slave of the royal family for unknown reasons (at least for now). In this episode, Grisha tells us that the attack titan was created to fight the king's self-righteousness and that Frieda (the royal family) was unaware of it. In other words, Ymir would have created the attack titan behind the back of the royal family.
We know that each primordial can see the memories of its predecessors (Porco seeing Marcel's memories or Armin with Bertholdt). But, in this episode, we learned that the attack titan has the power to read the memories of its future holders. This power, only Eren discovered it... When? How?. The response is simple: by mistake. When Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his father killing the royal family but he also saw his father chatting with Zeke and his future self.
The power of the attack titan is not to see the future directly but simply to observe the memories of the next holder if this one accepts it. For example, at the end of the episode, Grisha does not see Zeke, he sees himself, facing Zeke, from Eren's point of view. You can see Eren as a camera where he can choose, whenever he wants, to share his current vision to his predecessors. Then, to "know" the future, he has to share his vision to the predecessors and then see in Grisha's memories what's going to happen.
There can only be one future (obviously). So when Eren decided to share his memories, he writes history, and the future cannot change anymore, otherwise his memories could not be transmitted to others and history would change. It's fate.
When Eren shows his memories, he transmits them to all his predecessors simultaneously. Now you know why Eren was saying "TATAKAE" in front of the mirror: he was actually sharing his memories and using the mirror so that his predecessors can see him.
Try to imagine: the first person gets the attack titan two thousand years ago and sees Eren telling him "fight, if you don't fight, you can't win". Apart from this person, all those who inherited this titan thought they were seeing the memories of the first owner, when in fact, they were seeing the memories of the last owner of this titan.
Exactly, Eren must be the last attack titan, because if there is a new one, he could share is memories to change history and that is not possible.
To be precise, Grisha was also aware of the impact of the future on his time. When Eren shared his memories, by "mistake", he revealed the presence of Zeke. From this moment, Grisha start understanding the power of the attack titan.
Another thing: Now, we know why Eren Kruger said "To save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else, you must see it through.". In fact, everyone who had the attack titan knew they had to save Mikasa and Armin, but they didn't know it was future memories.
-------> To be clear: the moment the attack titan was created by Ymir, the whole story was written and could not be changed. To understand how the story is written, you have to admit that the story is written from the end.
Okay, so Eren wants freedom for him and his friends. When he thinks he got that freedom, he shares his memories and the past can't change. In fact: two thousand years of history has been written at that exact moment. Inevitably, we are going to the future that Eren saw, and no one can change a thing.
If for example, Eren wanted to be a pizza maker (yeah...), the attack titan goal would not be to fight the king's self-righteousness, but to make pizza and the history would have been different. That's because Eren wants freedom that every holder of the attack titan wanted freedom as well.
Eren Kruger told us on the wall that Grisha was "chosen" to have the attack titan. In fact, this titan is transmitted each time to someone revolutionary. Indeed, if someone revolutionary has the attack titan, he will want to bequeath it to someone who shares his revolutionary ideas and that's how the titan has travelled through history to "fight" the royal line.
It's funny to see that Zeke thought that Eren was being manipulated by his father, when we learn that Eren was manipulating two thousand years of history ^^.
The story is actually a loop:
Grisha steals the founding titan -> Grisha gives both titans to Eren -> Eren can attack Marley -> He can "kidnap" Zeke -> they can "touch" each other -> they can travel in Grisha's memory -> Eren can "contact" Grisha through memories and tell him to steal the founding titan -> ... (loop)
This is the ultimate paradox of Attack on Titan. You can't find a beginning to the story except from the end.
Another paradox:
Eren ordered Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> So he's going to look for his daughter (Historia) -> he will get killed by her -> She will become the new Queen of Eldia -> Eren will kiss her hand for the presentation of survey corps medals -> So he can look at his father's memories and see himself ordering to Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> ... (loop)
Here is my last point:
When Zeke wanted to use his scream, Eren said "Wait!". At first sight, we can think that Eren hesitates and does not want to lose the people dear to him (Pixis for example). It's not that at all. Eren tells him to wait a second, so that Falco, his brother (Colt) and Gabi can arrive and do their dialogue. Once Zeke uses his scream, he orders Falco to "defend" Eren. That's what allows Eren's run. Also, without that little second, Gabi wouldn't be there and couldn't shoot Eren.
Since Eren kissed Historia's hand, there are many details like that and I encourage you all to watch AOT again to find out more.
Thanks you for reading this, AND LOVE YOU TWO ;)
Can't agree more
WELL DONE SOLDIER
hope they read this
leaving a like so they can this
god I love aot and this comment
This is one of my favorite chapters, it's just... AMAZING
You are right Ange, Eren is the villian. The best villian (in the same level of the Joker, or Vito Corleone)... this anime is a masterpiece.
Keep up the great work on attack on titan.I’m only on episode 13 but love you guys
never turned my back on Eren, we don't need to justify his action but we can still love him. Eren is my favorite from start to last.
Same
Same
His actions are justified though. He never started this but he’ll end it. It may be extreme but it’s understandable.
@@Aartisme that’s why it’s understandable but not justified.
Same
This is a mind-blowing ep and Grisha's VA is on another level really, can't wait for next one!!
ange is so funny when he tries to bend backwards to defend eren
That little comment from Grisha during the episode while he's talking to Frieda "My wife, son, and daughter" just really hits. Grisha only had Mikasa in his life for a single year at the point but he considered her a daughter, cared for her in a way he hadn't cared for any other little girl since his sister was killed. Heartstrings have been pulled, the ninjas are cutting onions.
Eren is one of the best characters ever written
The acting of the voice actor is too amazing.
It's very easy to hate Eren for the choices that he made and it's also very easy to forget that somebody had to make that choice.
True, but its also easy to see how every else (except Gabi and Eren) have learned from their choices, or other peoples choices, and want or wish to be better or make better choices. While Eren seems to be escalating the cycle of violence, or causing history to repate itself on a bigger scale. Zeke was trying to break the cycle. We don't know what Eren is doing in this episode other than not supporting Euthanasia plan and forcing Grisha and Kruger to make the choices that lead to this episode. With all the double fakes and plot twists thrown into the story, I doubt we will know before the end of series.
@@omegaspecter Gabi definitely learned from her actions wtf
The post reaction discussion in this ep was so good ! :P
"We'll always have Mr. Braun" hahaha lol
Just like King's will.
Every Shredded Titan is bound to Eren's will.
Where is that confirmed?
@@surgrus4367 Go read the fcking MANGO!
Nahh kidding, well its clearly shown how Grisha and Kruger were being manipulated by Eren's memories. We also know that all Shredded users fought for freedom that is an acknowledgement that Eren had something to do with it. I am also sure he somehow controlled Dina's Titan form to ignore Berutoruto and eat his own mother
@@mrsuperselenio5694 bro delete that last part! Ive read everything, but i still havent found clear proof that Eren manipulated all Shredded titans, ofc we see him break down his father, but not Kruger. Please point me to the clear evidence that Kruger was manipulated
The soudtrack starting from Grisha stabbed his hand is AMAZING!
In regard to Ange's question about it being when we turned our back to Eren: to me there is a huge difference between hating Eren and hating what he's doing. Personally I hate what he's doing and I can't root for him to succeed in what he's planning to do. But I still love him to bits! He's gone through so much, I understand where he's coming from, I'm convinced he himself hate what he's doing (like Ange said, that's why he was asking Hange to show him another way), but still feels he has to do it. My heart breaks for him, to me he's the second most tragic character in AoT.
is reiner no.1 or zeke?
@@kaidothedragon2821 no ymir
@@Endisfree_ disagree, but everone has his own op
@@kaidothedragon2821ymir fritz? I don’t really think it’s an opinion to say she’s suffered the most. She has been a slave making titans for 2000 years in a realms where a few seconds feel like years. That’s easily trillions of years suffering for nothing. Not even to mention her life before paths. It doesn’t even compare
@@Endisfree_ Oh no I agree to that, I thought you were talikng about S2 Ymir
The episode that changes EVERYTHING.
I'm sad you seemed to have missed the part where Grisha tells Eren about the key and the basement. He's actually looking at grown-up Eren while saying it.
The logical thing would be to either look at the key, or young Eren while speaking. But he's looking straight ahead and grown-up Eren is looking back at him.
Can't blame them. It must be quite hard reading all the subs while also attending every little detail like where grisha is looking at.
When Shasa die Eren laughs and began to lament moments after, because he understands that the future, that he saw in his future memories, can't be changed
15:38 So, the Attack Titan's ability is that he can have glimpses of the future of its NEXT inheritor.
So, Kruger could only have glimpses of Grisha's future and Grisha could only have glimpses of Eren's future. This means it wasn't Eren that spoke to Grisha through Kruger but Grisha himself.
The first time we heard the phrase "If you want to save Armin and Mikasa..." was when Kruger was talking to Grisha in the wall. The second time was when Grisha gave Eren the Attack Titan in the forest.
Now, if Eren said that to Grisha and Grisha showed that to Kruger that's not only mind-boggling but it actually opens many doors for discussion.
Hi Ange, I agree with you 100%!!! Thank you both for making these reactions! :D
Discussion in the end was amazing....,imagine if Daenerys Targaryen had similar character development before going batshit crazy, GOT would've been my favorite series.
right at the door when Grisha is holding the key to his chest, in the memory where eren wants to join the scouts. Grisha is talking and not looking at his family but he is looking directly at future Eren, like he is talking directly to him. Pretty awesome stuff.
More and more the series goes on, Eren seems to go from main protagonist to main antagonist. It's kind of the opposite for Zeke. We saw all of Eren's evolution from season 1 to now. From season 1 to 3: Eren is the reason to be able to save humanity against the titans and to be able to face the higher grade titan, the Beast Titan. Season 4: Zeke has to stop Eren somehow.
Knowing the Attack (shredded) Titan's ability, we can understand why Kruger said to Grisha: If you want to save Armin and Mikasa! Then seems confused about who's memories are those. It was Grisha or Eren's memories.
Great reactions as usual! This episode was very emotional. It's kind of hard to believe to feel so sorry for Zeke or even cried for him, mostly since when we know about the Beast titan from season 2. Keep up the great work! 🤗
My favourite shredding the evidence segment of all time
This for me makes Aot initially the best Show ever. Even before it has to be a top3 one just off the mindblows u get later S3, but this ep especially...holy crap.
I was soo scared in the moment ''to be continued'' came. Bc last pic u saw was Eren looking down like a Demon.
This Ep has no actionscene but even so it builds extreme tension and feels breathtaking all through. Reflecting old stories and situations from now on, just to later find out that Eren was like a Ghost, standing behind and directing the Story we all thought was the story just got the biggest Plottwist i've seen so far.
How do you have 15Stories layered in Episode 1, but Isayama lets us think, we watch just one story from Season1-3.
Never seen that, awesome buildup. SoOOOOO happy you uploaded today i really thought you would take a break today xo Future Eren already stands beneath them.
I've been waiting for your reaction to this episode! This one blew my mind o.O