Cool little detail: Whenever Grisha can "see" Zeke, Eren is actually positioned behind both of them looking at them, so Grisha isnt actually "seeing" Zeke, rather he can see Eren's memories of seeing both of them. Its the same with when Eren talked to Grisha. Eren can actually control what memories get sent to Grisha and what don't, thats why Grisha asks why Eren won't show if Carla and Mikasa were safe, because Eren chose not to as leverage for Grisha to do what he wanted. So finally, when Eren was talking to Grisha, he was simply sending memories to the past of him speaking. Its really interesting once you start understanding the whole "memories of the future" thing
A very good explanation, but I wouldn’t say that this is a little detail it’s very important to understand for this episode cuz I feel like they didn’t quite get it. Your explanation clears how all past-future conversations are happening.
"Protect Mikasa and Armin". This was our first clue, but I don't think any of us really understood the actual complications of those words at the time. Such masterful story writing.
@@JollibeenosHasYourCoordinates That's not how the AT works. It's not like with other shifters, where you can just see memories. Here the future inheritor must choose to send them back. Otherwise, it works the same. Technically, it's possible that Eren sent it, too, as he witnessed the moment.
@امير مادرا bruh you're trying a lil bit too hard to Troll But no one is caring about ur reply on every comment 😂 anywayss.............. have a good day tho
@@ameerioo4757 ooh yess he iss No comments in that I was just saying that he was trying to Troll people by saying a character is goat and all to trigger others 😂
Someone give Hiroshi Tsuchida, Grisha's VA, an award. He owns absolutely every episode he's in. That Day, Sole Salvation, and now Memories of the Future. Absolutely heartbreaking performances. And to clarify, when Eren killed the human traffickers as a child, that was ALL him. He hadn't inherited the Attack Titan from Grisha yet. Eren's always had a screw loose. And when Grisha asks Zeke to stop Eren, he's saying that because he's already seen the future of what Eren's done. He even mentions that he couldn't believe how terrible a future it was.
I haven't finished the manga so please don't spoil me. I believe in aot the future is written. Even if you don't inherit the titan you are technically linked to it because the future is set. I believe eren manipulated Krueger to let Dina get converted and to pass the titan to grisha so the events of S1 to 3 happen, giving eren the drive and rage to save the world.
I swear since season 1, its not just Grisha VA that did an excellent Job. The entire cast team did an amazing. Voice acting in Attack On Titan is an other level and its one of the reason why Aot was 4 of the top 10 best series in the world. GG for the cast team
Your clarification is kinda wrong. Spoiler beneath. In the first chapter; and iirc the first episode, Eren does see the whole story. Being a subject of Ymir, he is tied to path, and we know the path transcend space and time to link all subjetcs of Ymir. We know that, through the path, all titan users can get access to previous users, since they are all linked. Now, we also know that Ymir and, therefore, the founder when used with royal blood, can literally do whatever it wants with said subjects, can easily send memories back in time. Hence the theory of determinism, and the fact that Eren was never really free.
@@patatebanine4278 honestly next to grisha, eren's voice acting is one of my favorites for aot. His jp voice actor normally irl has a rather high pitched and really cute and friendly voice, and he did such a good job bringing eren to life, from childhood to adulthood, his hope and despair and rage, everything. Eren's such a roller coaster of a character and he nailed it, couldn't have asked for a better eren voice. Apart from eren and grisha, i also really love the voice acting for zeke, reiner, gabi and falco, levi's voice acting in his OVA was really heartbreaking too (yknow, THAT scene) (just to clarify in case I get attacked by hardcore fanatics, just bc the charas I listed have my favorite voice acting in the show doesn't mean i think everyone else sucked, i just like how these characters really portray a wide array of emotions in their voices)
Your first instinct was correct Ange! Eren saw himself through Grisha's memories when he kissed Historia's hand. It's the same way Grisha saw Zeke in the basement, he was seeing Eren's memories of the future, of Eren and Zeke in his own memories!
To be more precise, Eren did not see himself the same way Grisha saw Zeke, cause Grisha saw Zeke through Eren's memories because Zeke was in Eren field of view, while Eren saw himself through Grisha's memories cause in those memories he actually saw the memories of himself (Eren) being there watching the scene, there's an extra step, therefore the title "memories of the future" maeks even more sense, cause in grisha's memories he saw memories of the future himself.
@@cianchetto4 Keep in mind Eren has to send the memory back to Grisha for Grisha to hear him. So in that moment, Grisha is actually seeing things from Eren's point of view. So when Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his dad's past memory from Eren's future point of view. So theoretically, Eren does see the memory from his own perspective
That was the moment we realized Eren was indeed disgusted with his father and did lose his respect, but not for the reasons Zeke thought. Zeke thought Eren was disgusted by the murder of the royal children--instead he found out Eren was disgusted that his father wouldn't do it faster and second-guessed himself. His father let his humanity get in the way of his mission: and Eren's not having it.
Zeke looks at him like that, because he was the little brother he wants to save from his fathers indoctrination, all the while Grisha was a loving father and Eren the mastermind.
This is the episode I thought of every time you guys theorized about like... teleportation, time travel, portals, etc. Knowing that TIME was going to become such a major a story element I was like holy shit they're on the right track!
Both the two Erens told Grisha the same lines when faced with dilemma: “You keep moving forward. Until death. Even after death. After all.. aren't you the one who started this story?” Poor man you can clearly see Grisha's regret and anguish after the two erens pointed out he “started this story.” So he stabbed the very same hand that grabbed Faye past the walls..
@@rationalmind3785 yeah, that's why I never get tired of rewatching it through people's yt reaction. Always gotta have a fresh pick up in every rewatch.
Even after death part such a strong line. We don;'t even know if Eren is alive, or if his will is moving forward after his own death, like the first kings.
the entire final scene is literally like...a master class in animation like wtf. its so gorgeous and the animation is so fluid and the voice acting is incredible, the shot compositions are insane, the music is crazy, the emotion is palpable.... its such a good episode. only gets BETTER FROM HERE too
29:35 We never lost the old eren. Its just like eren said to zeke earlier in the episode: He has been like this from the beginning ever since he was born, we just failed to see the issues that comes from having that mindset in a world like theirs where the whole world is their enemy. At first, their whole world was just the walls and the titans outside of it but as we see in the end of season 3, it's much more than that. Their world was so much bigger than what they initially thought as well as the enemies trapping them in "their cage". Still facing the same reality of being trapped in a cage and the world being their enemy, Eren keeps moving forward and "for freedom, he fights".
Love all your reactions. One note, when little Eren is talking about joining the Scouts and tells his dad "If we don't continue what they started it will all have been for nothing" is what made Grisha realize what he had to do. And Eren didn't control his father, he just reminded him in that moment that this had to be done, if he didnt kill the Reiss family all the lives lost before now, all the countless deaths would have been for nothing.
Exactly...they make it seem like eren is one puppetmaster...but to me it seems eren just shows them what is to come and they decide to go along (even though he doesn't show everything) Cos even after greisha says stop eren to zeke, he still goes and gives eren the power...I think its cos after all that he saw the destruction and death of his wife and was like nah...eren take the power.
@@essiensamuel1816 Eren did not control them directly, but he definitely manipulated them, Grisha himself in this chapter asked him why he did not show him if his wife and mikasa were okay, he did not do it so that they make decisions only with the knowledge that Eren gave him
@@wilsonarenas7583 I get your point...but I don't think it'd have changed anything...he'd have probably been panicked and fucked it all up...he still found out his wife was dead a few moments later...I think eren not showing him the memory was even a mercy cos then he'd know it was his first wife who killed his new wife .. basically he'd have fucked it up And when he finds out everything and is all caught up he eventually still decides to give the power to eren. Not entirely sure but I'm guessing that was still fully greishas choice. Also I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure I remember greisha seemed angry and yelling at eren when he gave him the shot 😅
Great reaction and discussion as always guys! Kruger's quote about Armin and Mikasa weren't Eren's memories, but Grishas - when he injected Eren with the serum he said to him the same quote: "if you wanna save Armin and Mikasa, you must master this power!" (it was first shown when Eren's skeletal titan first appeared in S1).
OMFG, yes!!!! It may seem trivial, but what a fact! I'm just realizing that every attack titan inheritor takes ITS OWN decisions influenced by future inheritor's memories.
@@AnibalAlvarez I was always so lost whenever there was this past-future-element in shows and movies. it really confuses me and whenever I think I finally got it, I didn't. I get that Eren let them see what he wants them to see so he has the control. But does that mean Eren let Grisha see what he saw during their trip through grishas past? bc grisha could see zeke through erens eyes but that means he let grisha see it right? there is just this thing that always confuses me: so, grisha saw what eren planned (while he was in the past) which can only be bc eren let him see it. eren could only manipulate grisha through zeke showing him grishas past so how come the past is exactly how eren manipulated it when he could only do so in the future? for example: eren told grisha to kill the kids when he went through grishas past. but before eren told him to do so during the past traveling, it has already happened? grisha killed the kids before eren got in contact with zeke to tell grisha to do so which confuses me so much. i must've missed an important aspect.
@@PeyloBeauty Eren needed Zeke for directly intervening in very specific moments... But most of the Eren's job was simply letting Griesha access his memories through years. DO you remember Eren talking to the mirror saying "Tatakae!"? Clearly he was not talking to himself, but to Griesha, or even the Howl. Eren drove the behaviour of all his previous inheritors. The single phrase that move the "Attack" Titan during all the history was "Attack!" (Tatakae!). Eren made sure that each and every one of them watch him say it. That's why talking to the mirror was fundamental. Beside the Reiss massacre (which is a key event), Eren didn't really need to travel through his memories with Zeke. Indeed, it was Eren who let Zeke and Griesha close their cycle and forgive each other. Eren strategically stood up behind Griesha (like in the basement) so he could clearly see Zekke through his eyes. It was Eren who purposely made it possible! Questioning if the kids had already died before Eren forced Griesha to kill them isn't worth it. It's a time travel paradox! The circle will repeat once and again.
I think supporting eren but not his actions is completely valid as we've been following his point of view since the very start of the show, and his actions aren't completely baseless either, horrible, but we can see how he came to this conclusion. Also he's just such an interesting and well written character that I just have to root for him
The story is well made that it puts the characters in desperate situations where they will be forced to do morally questionable acts but the only necessary one.
I don't know, if you actually follow his character and don't ignore his faults simply because he is a protagonist, there are plenty of reasons to dislike Eren. Him being a rage monster that constantly spouts about devouring and genociding well before season 4 being some examples as to why. Many of the SEVERE RED FLAGS for Eren get written off by some because they simply think it is angst or - like many protagonists - he will "get over it". Eren never "gets over it".
@@Tyrantofthewind Eren being a rage monster prior to Season 4 is him just a beginner shifter for the attack titan. He tends to lose control over his emotions due to the trauma other titans and shifter have done to his mom, friends, comrades and other people. He already said it before, he doesn't think these criminals as humans but dangerous animals.
Zeke thought his father was the devil and tried to save Eren from his influence. While trying to save, he realized that the real demon was Eren. What a masterpiece.
And Eren never would have become a devil in the first place if he never tried to save him, because Grisha wouldn't be able to kill the Royal family and get the founder
Ironically, Zeke whose himself thought that the Vow of Renouncing War doesn't have the power over him. And here he is, saying the same thing as the royal family, doing the same thing as the royal family (he would rather Eldians to perish instead of fighting), agreeing with the royal's ideology.
The Attack Titans will to fight & longing for freedom that was mentioned long ago is Eren's Will influencing all of the previous Attack titans before him. *That's why it seeks freedom, that's why it fights!* That's just how strong Eren's Will & Drive is, He very existence has influenced countless other Attack Titans to this exact point in time long before he was even born.
Something that they missed about the kruger scene "you have to save mikasa and armin", that was a line grisha says to Eren just before he injecting Eren so its technically Grishas memory and not Erens
For someone so obsessed with the idea of freedom, having the attack titan would be the worst possible punishment. How could anyone possibly be free if the future is a known thing, no matter what he does every step he takes is guided by his future self. Doomed to walk in his own footsteps. Or to quote Eren "Those that push their own backs experience a different kind of hell" I feel like by the end he no longer believes there's hope, fate is real, freedom is a delusion. He just gives into the rage and directs his vengeance to the world that caused it to be possible. The only care is that he's not including his friends in that vengeance.
@Edu Alves He literally sacrificed himself and his happiness to build a different world for his friends and his people. It's true that only in that way they will be truly free. He just has the guts to do it no matter the hate he will get.
@@keane4464 it's not he was bound to do this..he choosed to do this because the other was of negotiations to peace was not happening..so eren decided to go 'I al atomic'...
Kruger's "if you want to save Mikasa and Armin" memory may have come from Grisha. It's word-for-word what Grisha said when he injected Eren. Kruger also told Grisha to find someone to love within the walls, as if he'd already seen Grisha's future memories. All this to point out that Eren isn't the only Attack Titan to send memories back.
I'm confident Grisha changed when Zeke turned him in. Remember his complete emotional breakdown when Kruger tells him to inherit that Titan? Yup, that's what makes me think so
I've been preparing this comment for quite some time to explain what happened here. Trust me, this is worth reading and ofc, without spoilers (also, there will not be any other explanation in the following episodes up until the end so...). Two thousand years ago, the titans were born from the powers of Ymir and in the previous episode, Zeke told us that she is a slave of the royal family for unknown reasons (at least for now). In this episode, Grisha tells us that the attack titan was created to fight the king's self-righteousness and that Frieda (the royal family) was unaware of it. In other words, Ymir would have created the attack titan behind the back of the royal family. We know that each primordial can see the memories of its predecessors (Porco seeing Marcel's memories or Armin with Bertholdt). But, in this episode, we learned that the attack titan has the power to read the memories of its future holders. This power, only Eren discovered it... When? How?. The response is simple: by mistake. When Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his father killing the royal family but he also saw his father chatting with Zeke and his future self. The power of the attack titan is not to see the future directly but simply to observe the memories of the next holder if this one accepts it. For example, at the end of the episode, Grisha does not see Zeke, he sees himself, facing Zeke, from Eren's point of view. You can see Eren as a camera where he can choose, whenever he wants, to share his current vision to his predecessors. Then, to "know" the future, he has to share his vision to the predecessors and then see in Grisha's memories what's going to happen. There can only be one future (obviously). So when Eren decided to share his memories, he writes history, and the future cannot change anymore, otherwise his memories could not be transmitted to others and history would change. It's fate. When Eren shows his memories, he transmits them to all his predecessors simultaneously. Now you know why Eren was saying "TATAKAE" in front of the mirror: he was actually sharing his memories and using the mirror so that his predecessors can see him. Try to imagine: the first person gets the attack titan two thousand years ago and sees Eren telling him "fight, if you don't fight, you can't win". Apart from this person, all those who inherited this titan thought they were seeing the memories of the first owner, when in fact, they were seeing the memories of the last owner of this titan. Exactly, Eren must be the last attack titan, because if there is a new one, he could share is memories to change history and that is not possible. To be precise, Grisha was also aware of the impact of the future on his time. When Eren shared his memories, by "mistake", he revealed the presence of Zeke. From this moment, Grisha start understanding the power of the attack titan. Another thing: Now, we know why Eren Kruger said "To save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else, you must see it through.". In fact, everyone who had the attack titan knew they had to save Mikasa and Armin, but they didn't know it was future memories. -------> To be clear: the moment the attack titan was created by Ymir, the whole story was written and could not be changed. To understand how the story is written, you have to admit that the story is written from the end. Okay, so Eren wants freedom for him and his friends. When he thinks he got that freedom, he shares his memories and the past can't change. In fact: two thousand years of history has been written at that exact moment. Inevitably, we are going to the future that Eren saw, and no one can change a thing. If for example, Eren wanted to be a pizza maker (yeah...), the attack titan goal would not be to fight the king's self-righteousness, but to make pizza and the history would have been different. That's because Eren wants freedom that every holder of the attack titan wanted freedom as well. Eren Kruger told us on the wall that Grisha was "chosen" to have the attack titan. In fact, this titan is transmitted each time to someone revolutionary. Indeed, if someone revolutionary has the attack titan, he will want to bequeath it to someone who shares his revolutionary ideas and that's how the titan has travelled through history to "fight" the royal line. It's funny to see that Zeke thought that Eren was being manipulated by his father, when we learn that Eren was manipulating two thousand years of history ^^. The story is actually a loop: Grisha steals the founding titan -> Grisha gives both titans to Eren -> Eren can attack Marley -> He can "kidnap" Zeke -> they can "touch" each other -> they can travel in Grisha's memory -> Eren can "contact" Grisha through memories and tell him to steal the founding titan -> ... (loop) This is the ultimate paradox of Attack on Titan. You can't find a beginning to the story except from the end. Another paradox: Eren ordered Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> So he's going to look for his daughter (Historia) -> he will get killed by her -> She will become the new Queen of Eldia -> Eren will kiss her hand for the presentation of survey corps medals -> So he can look at his father's memories and see himself ordering to Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> ... (loop) Here is my last point: When Zeke wanted to use his scream, Eren said "Wait!". At first sight, we can think that Eren hesitates and does not want to lose the people dear to him (Pixis for example). It's not that at all. Eren tells him to wait a second, so that Falco, his brother (Colt) and Gabi can arrive and do their dialogue. Once Zeke uses his scream, he orders Falco to "defend" Eren. That's what allows Eren's run. Also, without that little second, Gabi wouldn't be there and couldn't shoot Eren. Since Eren kissed Historia's hand, there are many details like that and I encourage you all to watch AOT again to find out more. Thanks you for reading this, AND LOVE YOU TWO ;)
I like Ange still trying to see things from Eren's perspective. I think that's the whole point of the show, that there is no absolutely right answer. Ultimately how far would you go to save your world and everyone you love.
16:02 It’s simpler that that. Eren has the founding Titan. The founder allows for Eren to influence the past, since the coordinate and the paths exist outside of time. If another attack titan ever controlled the founder, then they could also enact their will on history. But that never happened.
Understanding the Attack Titan and how it can affect memory is so crazy. It feels so tragic that Eren saw his own future back in Season 3 and saw the path he would have to go down. It’s an interesting take on time travel and freedom of choice.
When he kissed historia's hand, he saw himself, from his fathers POV, manipulating his father. Thats why he looked so messed up ever since then. Eren is someone who values freedom more than anything, and he learned that, nevermind freedom, he doesn't even have _free will_ as his future is already determined.
I don't know about that "future is already determined part". There might be some limit and that limit would be Eren himself. If Eren only wanted the founding Titan, Grisha could've easily given to what Eren wants but no, Eren wants Frieda's siblings killed too. It might have to do with one of Eren's valued friends - Historia, her future, her queenship, her charity for abandoned kids, her safety and political influence and position in power, etc.. I think Eren already changed some of the past that would benefit his friends and what we are currently seeing right now is the best path that Eren sees for his friends and his people.
@@RyzenShanks Well heres what we know, future Eren influenced Grisha without (at that time) present Eren's knowledge. So that at that time was not Erens will influencing that time. That was a future event influencing the past. As the literal ability is _future holders send whatever memories they want to previous holders_. Meaning the future, relative to the present, influences the past. There are two possible logical conclusions of this. 1. There are infinite parallel universes all with time slightly offset, and Grisha is actually being influenced by a near identical Eren from a parralel universe. This would mean that, in any given timeline, that timelines individual future is not inherently set, but is influenced by timelines which are moving along side them, slightly ahead in time. 2. There is one timeline, and in this timeline, the timelines own future influences the timelines past, meaning for the past to have been influenced, the future must have already been determined at that given point. Most people go with conclusion 2, as it fits in best with the ideas about freedom (or lack there of)
@@felix_patriot How does number 2 work if the timeline is linear succession of events. Why does the future Eren (having the founding titan) still need to influence the hesitating Grisha in the past just to get the founding Titan? If future Eren didn't do it, he would still have it in another way right?
@@RyzenShanks Its not linear. Dont confuse "1 timeline" for "1 linear timeline". Since the future is already determined, every decision everyone would ever make was calculated from the very beginning of the universe, and therefore since it was all essentially _written at the same time, destined to happen,_ there can be interaction between future and past without a paradox.
Im an anime only like you guys. I also had that question also about why only eren was like able to influence the past attack titans. Remember that kruger and grisha has always been saying that the attack titan “has always been fighting for freedom”. This means that eren’s will is so strong that the past attack titans would want to obey eren’s will. Now, this would pop out a follow up question, “then why hasnt the further future inheritors of the attack titan influence eren and the others???” -the only possible answer is, “is because eren is gonna be the last attack titan”. It would be so much of a plothole if eren isnt the last one. Now, remember that if a titan shifter dies without passing it on, a newborn will inherit it, but we already established that eren is the last attack titan, therefore, somehow, eren will end the titan bloodline or wish to ymir to stop people from becoming titans anymore or any other way. This has got to be the ending of aot. Thanks if you read
Your words ANGE fit the descripton of what is happening in the show i couldnt phrase it better myself . "EREN has seen the only path for saving his people", "EREN doing everything for armin and mikasa" AND "show has done a good job of VILLAINIZING EREN"
Grisha's tragic stories His sister died and his parents cover it up His first son betrays him His first wife and all of his comrades are turned into titans in front of him His second wife was eaten by his first wife And now.. his second son manipulated him He is a character who suffers a lot That's was heartbreaking.. oh my god 😭
I am not sure and correct me if I am wrong but, when the attack on Marley happened eren said now or never Mikasa without seeing her and she appears behind him so I guess he saw that scene before , there is so much cool shit about this ability in this show and it’s kinda explain Erens strange behavior.
Zeke drags Eren into Grishas memories to change Eren's mind. Eren: Look at me, I'm the captain now 😎 By taking Eren into the memories, Zeke unwittingly made the entire show happen. If Eren hadn't been there to convince Grisha to follow through on taking the Founding from the Reiss, the Warriors (Reiner and co) would have succeeded and wiped out Paradis from the inside while Frieda was unable/unwilling to fight back. Eren was behind everything. All along.
In my eyes Eren didn't start it all It was marlin how set the stones into motion. By breaking the walls If marlin never sent the child soldiers eren's dad would not have a reason to get the founding Titans power. Because Eren's his mom wouldn't have died and Eren wouldn't have needed that power to save every in the second wall by closing it up. Eren did give his dad the attack titan power back on the walls. To save Armin and Mikasa before they where born.
That's the thing, everyone in this show have killed people, saddly, that's how cruel the AOT world is. Everyone is fighting for what they believe it's the "right" thing to do. And i really love how the anime gives you a lot of perspectives. The writing is amazing.
Honestly yeah! For most of the season, I held onto the hope that it was all a fluke and Eren would reveal a grand scheme that would sit right with me, but after this episode I realised that I was wrong and I should just let go lol. Just wait till you see the next episode too. Great reaction guys! Really love hearing your thoughts and listening to you guys discuss.
In regard to Ange's question about it being when we turned our back to Eren: to me there is a huge difference between hating Eren and hating what he's doing. Personally I hate what he's doing and I can't root for him to succeed in what he's planning to do. But I still love him to bits! He's gone through so much, I understand where he's coming from, I'm convinced he himself hate what he's doing (like Ange said, that's why he was asking Hange to show him another way), but still feels he has to do it. My heart breaks for him, to me he's the second most tragic character in AoT.
@@kaidothedragon2821ymir fritz? I don’t really think it’s an opinion to say she’s suffered the most. She has been a slave making titans for 2000 years in a realms where a few seconds feel like years. That’s easily trillions of years suffering for nothing. Not even to mention her life before paths. It doesn’t even compare
Some time ago I read a comment that said that Eren is the son that Grisha would have wanted in Marley and Zeke the son that he would have wanted in Eldia
Ange: I am not a Jaegerist, I do not condone his actions. Also Ange: Eren means well, he is making the hard decisions. Ange: I am not a Jaegerist, I do not condone his actions. Eren: Kills adults as a child, manipulates his father to kill so he gets the Founding Also Ange: Eren was acting selflessly.
When Shasa die Eren laughs and began to lament moments after, because he understands that the future, that he saw in his future memories, can't be changed
That little comment from Grisha during the episode while he's talking to Frieda "My wife, son, and daughter" just really hits. Grisha only had Mikasa in his life for a single year at the point but he considered her a daughter, cared for her in a way he hadn't cared for any other little girl since his sister was killed. Heartstrings have been pulled, the ninjas are cutting onions.
that was a lot!! seen it for the 1st time shook me to my core I was like wtf just happened. I understand ange feeling this way especially that eren is his favorite character but with everything eren went through and the tole of all these memories, him changing isn't really strange, I watched this season until episode 22 and stopped to continue with you guys so happy you guys made it 🤩
True, but its also easy to see how every else (except Gabi and Eren) have learned from their choices, or other peoples choices, and want or wish to be better or make better choices. While Eren seems to be escalating the cycle of violence, or causing history to repate itself on a bigger scale. Zeke was trying to break the cycle. We don't know what Eren is doing in this episode other than not supporting Euthanasia plan and forcing Grisha and Kruger to make the choices that lead to this episode. With all the double fakes and plot twists thrown into the story, I doubt we will know before the end of series.
The blondie that was talking to Mikasa about the scarf in the last episode is the same girl that Mikasa saved back in trost in season 1 from the titan who she saluted to in response to her thanks. Was a sweet moment then but she now idolize's Mikasa.
15:38 So, the Attack Titan's ability is that he can have glimpses of the future of its NEXT inheritor. So, Kruger could only have glimpses of Grisha's future and Grisha could only have glimpses of Eren's future. This means it wasn't Eren that spoke to Grisha through Kruger but Grisha himself. The first time we heard the phrase "If you want to save Armin and Mikasa..." was when Kruger was talking to Grisha in the wall. The second time was when Grisha gave Eren the Attack Titan in the forest. Now, if Eren said that to Grisha and Grisha showed that to Kruger that's not only mind-boggling but it actually opens many doors for discussion.
its absolutely amazing when you rewatch the previous seasons after watching S4 or after reading the manga. You'll notice little nuances that at first watch, didn't mean anything, but now knowing what you know, it just means so much more. One example is after the battle in Trost and the soldiers we're cleaning up and gathering the dead bodies. There was a scene that lasted for like 3 seconds, where Annie was saying 'i'm sorry' while looking at the pile of dead people. At first you'll think she's saying sorry because they died, but she's actually apologizing since they died because of her/them doing their mission.
Discussion in the end was amazing....,imagine if Daenerys Targaryen had similar character development before going batshit crazy, GOT would've been my favorite series.
Craziest part to consider is Grisha's line about "I killed them all, except the father, just like you told me." This implies that entire developments of seasons one to three were of Eren's doing. Without Rod Reiss leaving alive, there's no way that Historia ends up becoming queen, and by default, Eren kissing her hand. In fact, without Historia being forced into the scouts, Ymir would have never even joined them, which would have drastically affected the entirety of season 2 (Pretty much Ymir's season), which lead to the scouts understanding Titans a lot more, and to Eren discovering his ability to control Titans through the use of a titan of royal blood. And going even further, it's very likely that even if the military had still managed to pull of their coup, without Historia as a figurehead, they would have never gotten the support of the populace. So, future Eren is the reason most of the events of the three previous seasons happened at all.
Fully agree with this, it feels as if Eren sent memories just to make sure (or generate) that things would transpire as they should, or rather hsi future self remembered. The only thing i keep thinking about is how did Eren "told Griesha" to kill all but Rod Reiss as he referenced. Was it just Eren sometime before showing memories of those events transpiring while on the paths to Griesha, and then Griesha though they were messages on how to do it ?
More and more the series goes on, Eren seems to go from main protagonist to main antagonist. It's kind of the opposite for Zeke. We saw all of Eren's evolution from season 1 to now. From season 1 to 3: Eren is the reason to be able to save humanity against the titans and to be able to face the higher grade titan, the Beast Titan. Season 4: Zeke has to stop Eren somehow. Knowing the Attack (shredded) Titan's ability, we can understand why Kruger said to Grisha: If you want to save Armin and Mikasa! Then seems confused about who's memories are those. It was Grisha or Eren's memories. Great reactions as usual! This episode was very emotional. It's kind of hard to believe to feel so sorry for Zeke or even cried for him, mostly since when we know about the Beast titan from season 2. Keep up the great work! 🤗
not only that, he saw his future self doing terrible things and cusing untold numbers of deaths and knew that he HAS to do them because the future has already been decided in order for these memories to reach him; the attack titan see's future memories, not "potential future memories", so the things he see's WILL happen because otherwise he wouldn't see them. it's no wonder why he looks so broken and acts so different after kissing Historia's hand, he knows the future looks grim and he HAS to make it happen that way
My favorite episode, honestly. This is the moment i fully rooted for Eren. At first he was just a Angry Kid but now it's someone read to sacrifice everything to save his people (eldians).
To anyone upset. Eren had no choice. He looked for other options. It was either he let his home get destroyed or he destroys everyone else. Either way it would be the same result, but different victims.
Eren didn’t see a better choice, but we don’t know there wasn’t one. “Glimpses into future memories” doesn’t mean full knowledge or control. Just in this episode we can see that the memory sharing effects are more like persuasion than mind control (e.g. we end with Grisha arguing back). Likewise, there’s no reason to be sure Eren is omniscient and omnipotent, and to what degree his situation is free or fatalistic. Especially since at this point we don’t know what “future memories” (if any) he has access to, and what his complete plan looks like. In general, reading the story as a trolley problem (ie. the characters are stuck with strongly predetermined bad either/or choices) may be fun, but lets be cautious when the fandom piles up its own head canons on top of the limited information that’s actually given. Isayama treaded the line with many moral dilemmas, leaving enough up to interpretation that we can keep arguing about this. Some theme directions may become clearer in future episodes; during 4x20 though the audience still has way more questions than answers.
This is patently incorrect and a misreading. Eren does have a choice, he simply won't make any different ones because he can't or won't change himself. If what you were saying was true, he could have tried any number of ways to avoid the future - but he doesn't - because he agrees with it. Eren is a slave to himself. He is not bound any more than that. This is THE ENTIRE REASON Eren says him and Reiner are alike, he does what he does because that is who he is and he believes Reiner is the same way.
@@Tyrantofthewind I get what your saying, but Eren did what he had to keep his friends safe. It’s not his fault Marley made everyone hate the Eldians. Eldia was never going to survive, so he made it survive as long as he could. He only said they’re alike because they both had to the things they did to “save the world.” The whole point of the story is hate spreads hate. As bad as Erens actions are he did what he had to to achieve his goal.
No, he did have a choice. He could've agreed to make Historia a Titan while Paradis develops technologically but for certain reasons he didn't want to do that.
Now comes the part where we can just flop everything on the table, spoilers don't matter anymore when Eren has been spoiling himself and every other Attack Titan in the past. Eren has been in control of the whole story. In fact, there are a bunch of spots in even season 1 where you see a figure in a jacket that looks like Present Eren watching Past Eren and friends, as early as Episode 2! It's ironic and tragic when you think about it: Eren as a character has always desired freedom above all else, and here he is trapped in a set destiny of his own making. He knows the future and knows how events must play out to get to the future he wants. So in theory he could make different choices if he wanted to, but he knows he won't because otherwise it won't lead to the future he wants for his friends. So he is trapped on this railroad and all the atrocious decisions that lay along it. You'll find out exactly how much control Eren has over this story in further episodes, but let's just say it's not just Grisha killing the Reiss family that made Eren make that horrified face.
this concept got me mind f'd for days. imagine having a first hand account of a moment your are living while at the same time having a second person account of a memory of a moment you are currently living in. i feel like if you have too many memories like that it would just turn you insane, you wouldnt know what was present or past
Okay, so fun fact, look close and you can notice that Grisha is seeing these memories through the eyes of Eren too. That’s why it seems like he always knows where Eren is. When Eren sends his memories back to Grisha, they’re always going to be through Eren’s perspective. They aren’t connected to his will. This is just his plan and he has been sending select memories back specifically only to try to influence them in the direction Eren wants
@@Edd211 we all know eren is trying to do whatever it takes ensure his people survival, few hard calls had to be made along the way, deep down almost everyone understands where Eren is coming from.
right at the door when Grisha is holding the key to his chest, in the memory where eren wants to join the scouts. Grisha is talking and not looking at his family but he is looking directly at future Eren, like he is talking directly to him. Pretty awesome stuff.
What I got from the flashback with the king's family was that Grisha had decided that he couldn't do it and had given up.. but then Eren egged him on by sending him memories.. so, in the end.. it wasn't just Grisha that killed them.. it was Eren convincing him to do it by showing him that specific moment as well as the future, showing Grisha the result of whatever plan Eren has in store for them all after this episode... and then at the end, Grisha begs Zeke to stop Eren.. because apparently Zeke's euthanization plan must be kind by comparison. Just chills, man.
I've always liked Eren, before watching this season I read all S4 on the manga until the end, like in 3 hours... I remember being like not rooting for Eren with his plan but still liked him very much because I was convinced he was doing all that for a better future or something. Things in AoT are always waaay more complex than they seem to be at first. Eren is my favorite character of the series and he will always be... it is just so well written, and ofc he's fine AF not gonna lie 😂
For those who didn't understand why grisha saw or see zek . The owner of the giant sees the future from the perspective of the owner of the future giant, meaning that Grisha saw Zeke from the perspective of Eren. and Eren was behind Grisha
One of the reasons i like your reactions is just because of Anges view on the world and morals. I agree with literally everything you said so far and especially what you said in this episode.
Attack on Titan, as you can probably see right now, is a show that offers no answers, only problems and what characters decide to about those problems. From the start, the show has been showing the different reactions people have to the reality of deciding between self-preservation and self-sacrifice, showing the horrors as well as the triumphs of people on both sides. Eren is determined to self-sacrifice, and he was ALWAYS talking about how it's for humanity, but as is true for everyone else in the show we also have our own personal reasons for doing these things. When those both align, a person becomes very powerful, but when they are not aligned they crumble or falter. We see this with eren, we see it with Mikasa, and we saw it with Erwin. But what makes this show great is we also see it with the non-main characters of the show, the "normal" people. How they panic in fear, but also have faith in those who will fight, and how they go back and forth. Nobody knows what's really right, the only difference is how much we believe, and what we are willing to do to show it to others, and also to ourselves. After all, we *all* need something to live for. Everyone is drunk on SOMETHING. It's the only way to deal with the awful things that come with being alive and sentient I think, but that's what I get from this show.
I'm done with the anime and i've read the manga and after all that eren is still my fav character, i never let him down bc i truly can understand his reasons and the fact that he's such a tragic character makes it way better, it's okay if you like eren or not, his actions are very very cuestionables hahaha i guess it depens in the light you're seeing it
Yes!! I think ppl forget what reiner zeke annie did!! They murdered ppl knowing they were INNOCENT and still kept killing them!! Eren is the same he knows they are innocent ppl but still doing all of this for his friends!! Yes genocide is not acceptable but the entire world despise them not just marley 👀 if it was just marley he would have stopped. But thats just me…
I don't think there are many people 100% turning their backs on Eren, it's more like getting away from him. For me, this kind of feeling towards Eren doesn't have an exact turning point, it's not just this episode, but building up through the whole Season 4. The part where he utilized Falco, the moment he shouted at Hanji and draggd her clothes, the moment he called Mikasa a slave and said how much he hated her, the moment he punched Armin to bleeding, the moment he knew exactly how many Eldian soldiers would become Titans but he still let them drink the wine(so that he could take advantage of Zeke to carry out his own plan), and this episode forcing his dad to kill. Eren never truly achieved anything on his own in the 3 seasons before, it's always teamwork. Rather than shutting his friends out and keeping his comrades in dark, he should at least let those who are closest to him know what he's up to, and try to discuss if there's a better way out. But no, he didn't. He pushed everyone away, not telling them what his plan is, acting like a lonely hero as if his plan is the only way that could save Eldians, while his friends still need to save his ass, endure his insult and be confused about who to trust. I think people still understand his position and motivation, but just hold a question mark on does he really have to go this far? Isn't there really a better way? Does he really successfully protect Eldians like he planed after everything he did(thinking about Sasha, Levi, Pixis and those soldiers who were turned into Titans so that Eren could use Zeke)? Nice reations as always. On Eren, I guess I hold the same position as Carlie. I gotta say Ange is a firm Jeagerist tho🤣🤣 But don't worry about that. This show, not only the content itself, but also reactions of all the readers and audiences, together they refleted just how different people and their views can be.
What i think is that attack titans rebellious nature from the very beginning is due to Eren past manipulation. He might have manipulated the very first attack titan and then the upcoming inheritors like he manipulated his father and even some of the kruger memories.Its just my thoughts so if anyone thinks they are wrong u can freely tell.
I agree...the very description of the attack titan (keeps moving forward in the pursuit of freedom) is the description of eren.. its more like the attack titan itself is eren and it just resided in different body's throughout time
This episode made me love eren even more than I thought possible. He's got brilliant tolerance to all the horrors he can see through his titan powers. He still makes the choices that is best to save his friends and hometown, who may I add suffured a whole deal without even doing anything wrong. I think that he's selfless and caring tbh
The lengths Ange is willing to go to defend Eren gives my life a meaning. Is he right? Hell no. But as an Eren simp from that shirt wearing scene.... I understand! Btw the children weren't dead, it was just the female Titan Blood 💀
Cool little detail: Whenever Grisha can "see" Zeke, Eren is actually positioned behind both of them looking at them, so Grisha isnt actually "seeing" Zeke, rather he can see Eren's memories of seeing both of them. Its the same with when Eren talked to Grisha. Eren can actually control what memories get sent to Grisha and what don't, thats why Grisha asks why Eren won't show if Carla and Mikasa were safe, because Eren chose not to as leverage for Grisha to do what he wanted. So finally, when Eren was talking to Grisha, he was simply sending memories to the past of him speaking. Its really interesting once you start understanding the whole "memories of the future" thing
This is brain freezing.. I can't.
Nicely Explained
Wow.... 😲
A very good explanation, but I wouldn’t say that this is a little detail it’s very important to understand for this episode cuz I feel like they didn’t quite get it. Your explanation clears how all past-future conversations are happening.
Also what Eren said to provoke Grisha is the same monologue said by Kruger before handing his Titan to Grisha..
"Protect Mikasa and Armin". This was our first clue, but I don't think any of us really understood the actual complications of those words at the time. Such masterful story writing.
That line was said by Grisha, though. So he was sending memories to the past as well.
@@marcusgaius
Or Kruger just saw Grisha's memories
Nahh, our first clue was the first scene of the first episode of the first season, lol
@@JollibeenosHasYourCoordinates That's not how the AT works. It's not like with other shifters, where you can just see memories. Here the future inheritor must choose to send them back. Otherwise, it works the same.
Technically, it's possible that Eren sent it, too, as he witnessed the moment.
@@tey5471 💀lmao
Eren won the "Best Protagonist" and "Best Antagonist" award in 2022
Also best writer, Best main Character, Support Character, Background Character and Best animator award😂
@@mrsuperselenio5694 Best genocider too🤣
The best part? The nominator is Eren.
And he deserves both
@@hessiankyojin NSJSGSJSH TRU
Zeke really thought he was doing something when he brought Eren into Grisha's memories. He was not ready.
no one was ready
except Eren, of course
Yes he was doing something
: helping eren 💀 🤣
Mans said “you thought I was locked in here with you but you’re locked in here with me”
fun fact: they actually spent years worth of time looking back thru grisha’s memories. all happening in an instant
Yes just like when Zeke was in the coordinate
Does that means they also saw the memory of grisha banging Carla?
@امير مادرا bruh you're trying a lil bit too hard to Troll
But no one is caring about ur reply on every comment 😂
anywayss.............. have a good day tho
@@joen4287 i mean reiner is a goated character too
@@ameerioo4757 ooh yess he iss
No comments in that
I was just saying that he was trying to Troll people by saying a character is goat and all to trigger others 😂
Someone give Hiroshi Tsuchida, Grisha's VA, an award. He owns absolutely every episode he's in. That Day, Sole Salvation, and now Memories of the Future. Absolutely heartbreaking performances.
And to clarify, when Eren killed the human traffickers as a child, that was ALL him. He hadn't inherited the Attack Titan from Grisha yet. Eren's always had a screw loose.
And when Grisha asks Zeke to stop Eren, he's saying that because he's already seen the future of what Eren's done. He even mentions that he couldn't believe how terrible a future it was.
I haven't finished the manga so please don't spoil me. I believe in aot the future is written. Even if you don't inherit the titan you are technically linked to it because the future is set. I believe eren manipulated Krueger to let Dina get converted and to pass the titan to grisha so the events of S1 to 3 happen, giving eren the drive and rage to save the world.
A screw loose? You mean based ideology
I swear since season 1, its not just Grisha VA that did an excellent Job. The entire cast team did an amazing. Voice acting in Attack On Titan is an other level and its one of the reason why Aot was 4 of the top 10 best series in the world. GG for the cast team
Your clarification is kinda wrong.
Spoiler beneath.
In the first chapter; and iirc the first episode, Eren does see the whole story.
Being a subject of Ymir, he is tied to path, and we know the path transcend space and time to link all subjetcs of Ymir. We know that, through the path, all titan users can get access to previous users, since they are all linked. Now, we also know that Ymir and, therefore, the founder when used with royal blood, can literally do whatever it wants with said subjects, can easily send memories back in time.
Hence the theory of determinism, and the fact that Eren was never really free.
@@patatebanine4278 honestly next to grisha, eren's voice acting is one of my favorites for aot. His jp voice actor normally irl has a rather high pitched and really cute and friendly voice, and he did such a good job bringing eren to life, from childhood to adulthood, his hope and despair and rage, everything. Eren's such a roller coaster of a character and he nailed it, couldn't have asked for a better eren voice. Apart from eren and grisha, i also really love the voice acting for zeke, reiner, gabi and falco, levi's voice acting in his OVA was really heartbreaking too (yknow, THAT scene)
(just to clarify in case I get attacked by hardcore fanatics, just bc the charas I listed have my favorite voice acting in the show doesn't mean i think everyone else sucked, i just like how these characters really portray a wide array of emotions in their voices)
Your first instinct was correct Ange! Eren saw himself through Grisha's memories when he kissed Historia's hand. It's the same way Grisha saw Zeke in the basement, he was seeing Eren's memories of the future, of Eren and Zeke in his own memories!
To be more precise, Eren did not see himself the same way Grisha saw Zeke, cause Grisha saw Zeke through Eren's memories because Zeke was in Eren field of view, while Eren saw himself through Grisha's memories cause in those memories he actually saw the memories of himself (Eren) being there watching the scene, there's an extra step, therefore the title "memories of the future" maeks even more sense, cause in grisha's memories he saw memories of the future himself.
@@cianchetto4 man my brain is steaming even thought I knew that already. Try telling this to a person that has never see AoT lol.
wibblywobbly timeywimey
@@cianchetto4 Keep in mind Eren has to send the memory back to Grisha for Grisha to hear him. So in that moment, Grisha is actually seeing things from Eren's point of view. So when Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his dad's past memory from Eren's future point of view. So theoretically, Eren does see the memory from his own perspective
I think you're underestimating how many fans are supportive of Eren.
That's true, probably half of the fandom does or even a little bit more
Yeah. Supporters of Eren alone is many, if combine it with the other Jaegerists, it's even more.
Yh I'm one of them. I mean I'd rather kill than be killed.
@@bluedragon1181 facts these stupid people expect you to lay down and watch everyone you know get slaughtered
#TeamRumbling #Jaegerists
That was the moment we realized Eren was indeed disgusted with his father and did lose his respect, but not for the reasons Zeke thought. Zeke thought Eren was disgusted by the murder of the royal children--instead he found out Eren was disgusted that his father wouldn't do it faster and second-guessed himself. His father let his humanity get in the way of his mission: and Eren's not having it.
You make that sounds band for Grish and good of Eren... Are you also pure evil like Eren???
I thought he was disgusted by what grisha did but he still encouraged him to do it because he had to for his goals
@@jyjaeskz Nah, he was disgusted at Grisha for pussying out.
i think eren just lied bro eren clearly said he was disgusted with his dad smearing dead children all around which was the lie.
@@Edd211 evil like eren tf bro
I will forever remember grisha's voice acting here. The best of the best
I don know why some people will watch English dub……
Fr this ep is top 3 aot episode for me
It made the whole scene it was everything
@@Daily659 cuz they are fart brain who don't like to read subs
same!
Its alright ange a lot of people love him, infact he is the voted best protagonist and antagonist this year.
I still laugh at that... Crunchy roll doesn't know what protagonist means
@@azmalftw He’s a protagonist for his people bruh
@@azmalftw he is the protagonist though. He's a villain protagonist
He is an anti-villain protagonist (same for Light from Death Note, Ragna from Blazblue, Caius from FF13-2, Lelouch from Code Geass, etc.)
@@TechnoArpan yes but a protagonist can't be an antagonist as well... A protagonist can be a villain but can't be an antagonist
when Grisha hugs Zeke.... damn, it always gets me, the music, the voice acting, it's a mix of so much emotions I can't help but tear up a little
Same
Grisha stabbed the same hand that dragged Faye past the walls. After all, he was the one who “started this story.”
🤧
@@joaniewwh3502 exactly
@@joen4287 it hurts
@@joaniewwh3502 makes the two of us
what the hell, never noticed that
Zeke looks at him like that, because he was the little brother he wants to save from his fathers indoctrination, all the while Grisha was a loving father and Eren the mastermind.
@امير مادرا i agree with you.
you guys after ep19: Maybe Eren knows something that Zeke doesn't?
Episode 20: yes he fucking does
and so much more XD
This is the episode I thought of every time you guys theorized about like... teleportation, time travel, portals, etc. Knowing that TIME was going to become such a major a story element I was like holy shit they're on the right track!
Both the two Erens told Grisha the same lines when faced with dilemma:
“You keep moving forward. Until death. Even after death. After all.. aren't you the one who started this story?”
Poor man you can clearly see Grisha's regret and anguish after the two erens pointed out he “started this story.” So he stabbed the very same hand that grabbed Faye past the walls..
I dont know, I think what this signified is that the "Eren Kruger" that said this to Grisha then, is our current Eren but through Kruger.
@@kaeldeleon could be interpreted that way as well, since Kruger is seeing Eren's memories.
What the hell. This is some new shi_t I just realised. This show is so good in hints and signs.
@@rationalmind3785 yeah, that's why I never get tired of rewatching it through people's yt reaction. Always gotta have a fresh pick up in every rewatch.
Even after death part such a strong line. We don;'t even know if Eren is alive, or if his will is moving forward after his own death, like the first kings.
the entire final scene is literally like...a master class in animation like wtf.
its so gorgeous and the animation is so fluid and the voice acting is incredible, the shot compositions are insane, the music is crazy, the emotion is palpable....
its such a good episode. only gets BETTER FROM HERE too
nah it got worse, the ending fell off
This episode couldn't be more better. It's absolute perfection. And Grisha's VA is truly phenomenal. Unrivaled!!!
Ange speaking about still supporting Eren is 100% what I'm here for.
I'm here for the opposite. I wanna see Ange finally abandon his support of Eren.
Such a shame it will never happen...
Though...
@@angr2773 good lol
@@angr2773 y did I laugh!?!??!
@@angr2773 a shame !!!??? ITS AN OPINION respect other opinions wtf ? Not all people will think the same way u do people have different opinions
@Y94R delusional
29:35 We never lost the old eren. Its just like eren said to zeke earlier in the episode: He has been like this from the beginning ever since he was born, we just failed to see the issues that comes from having that mindset in a world like theirs where the whole world is their enemy. At first, their whole world was just the walls and the titans outside of it but as we see in the end of season 3, it's much more than that. Their world was so much bigger than what they initially thought as well as the enemies trapping them in "their cage". Still facing the same reality of being trapped in a cage and the world being their enemy, Eren keeps moving forward and "for freedom, he fights".
Love all your reactions. One note, when little Eren is talking about joining the Scouts and tells his dad "If we don't continue what they started it will all have been for nothing" is what made Grisha realize what he had to do. And Eren didn't control his father, he just reminded him in that moment that this had to be done, if he didnt kill the Reiss family all the lives lost before now, all the countless deaths would have been for nothing.
Exactly...they make it seem like eren is one puppetmaster...but to me it seems eren just shows them what is to come and they decide to go along (even though he doesn't show everything)
Cos even after greisha says stop eren to zeke, he still goes and gives eren the power...I think its cos after all that he saw the destruction and death of his wife and was like nah...eren take the power.
@@essiensamuel1816 Eren did not control them directly, but he definitely manipulated them, Grisha himself in this chapter asked him why he did not show him if his wife and mikasa were okay, he did not do it so that they make decisions only with the knowledge that Eren gave him
@@wilsonarenas7583 I get your point...but I don't think it'd have changed anything...he'd have probably been panicked and fucked it all up...he still found out his wife was dead a few moments later...I think eren not showing him the memory was even a mercy cos then he'd know it was his first wife who killed his new wife .. basically he'd have fucked it up
And when he finds out everything and is all caught up he eventually still decides to give the power to eren. Not entirely sure but I'm guessing that was still fully greishas choice.
Also I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure I remember greisha seemed angry and yelling at eren when he gave him the shot 😅
Great reaction and discussion as always guys!
Kruger's quote about Armin and Mikasa weren't Eren's memories, but Grishas - when he injected Eren with the serum he said to him the same quote: "if you wanna save Armin and Mikasa, you must master this power!" (it was first shown when Eren's skeletal titan first appeared in S1).
OMFG, yes!!!! It may seem trivial, but what a fact!
I'm just realizing that every attack titan inheritor takes ITS OWN decisions influenced by future inheritor's memories.
wait but since grisha carries erens future memories those are erens memories that krüger and grisha saw? i thought eren showed them to them?
@@PeyloBeauty They saw what Eren let them see
@@AnibalAlvarez I was always so lost whenever there was this past-future-element in shows and movies. it really confuses me and whenever I think I finally got it, I didn't. I get that Eren let them see what he wants them to see so he has the control. But does that mean Eren let Grisha see what he saw during their trip through grishas past? bc grisha could see zeke through erens eyes but that means he let grisha see it right? there is just this thing that always confuses me: so, grisha saw what eren planned (while he was in the past) which can only be bc eren let him see it. eren could only manipulate grisha through zeke showing him grishas past so how come the past is exactly how eren manipulated it when he could only do so in the future? for example: eren told grisha to kill the kids when he went through grishas past. but before eren told him to do so during the past traveling, it has already happened? grisha killed the kids before eren got in contact with zeke to tell grisha to do so which confuses me so much. i must've missed an important aspect.
@@PeyloBeauty Eren needed Zeke for directly intervening in very specific moments... But most of the Eren's job was simply letting Griesha access his memories through years.
DO you remember Eren talking to the mirror saying "Tatakae!"? Clearly he was not talking to himself, but to Griesha, or even the Howl.
Eren drove the behaviour of all his previous inheritors. The single phrase that move the "Attack" Titan during all the history was "Attack!" (Tatakae!). Eren made sure that each and every one of them watch him say it. That's why talking to the mirror was fundamental.
Beside the Reiss massacre (which is a key event), Eren didn't really need to travel through his memories with Zeke. Indeed, it was Eren who let Zeke and Griesha close their cycle and forgive each other. Eren strategically stood up behind Griesha (like in the basement) so he could clearly see Zekke through his eyes. It was Eren who purposely made it possible!
Questioning if the kids had already died before Eren forced Griesha to kill them isn't worth it. It's a time travel paradox! The circle will repeat once and again.
I think supporting eren but not his actions is completely valid as we've been following his point of view since the very start of the show, and his actions aren't completely baseless either, horrible, but we can see how he came to this conclusion. Also he's just such an interesting and well written character that I just have to root for him
The story is well made that it puts the characters in desperate situations where they will be forced to do morally questionable acts but the only necessary one.
I support his actions 100%
@@JoseRamirez-ew7vq lol
I don't know, if you actually follow his character and don't ignore his faults simply because he is a protagonist, there are plenty of reasons to dislike Eren. Him being a rage monster that constantly spouts about devouring and genociding well before season 4 being some examples as to why. Many of the SEVERE RED FLAGS for Eren get written off by some because they simply think it is angst or - like many protagonists - he will "get over it". Eren never "gets over it".
@@Tyrantofthewind Eren being a rage monster prior to Season 4 is him just a beginner shifter for the attack titan. He tends to lose control over his emotions due to the trauma other titans and shifter have done to his mom, friends, comrades and other people. He already said it before, he doesn't think these criminals as humans but dangerous animals.
Zeke thought his father was the devil and tried to save Eren from his influence. While trying to save, he realized that the real demon was Eren. What a masterpiece.
And Eren never would have become a devil in the first place if he never tried to save him, because Grisha wouldn't be able to kill the Royal family and get the founder
Ironically, Zeke whose himself thought that the Vow of Renouncing War doesn't have the power over him. And here he is, saying the same thing as the royal family, doing the same thing as the royal family (he would rather Eldians to perish instead of fighting), agreeing with the royal's ideology.
The Attack Titans will to fight & longing for freedom that was mentioned long ago is Eren's Will influencing all of the previous Attack titans before him.
*That's why it seeks freedom, that's why it fights!*
That's just how strong Eren's Will & Drive is, He very existence has influenced countless other Attack Titans to this exact point in time long before he was even born.
Something that they missed about the kruger scene "you have to save mikasa and armin", that was a line grisha says to Eren just before he injecting Eren so its technically Grishas memory and not Erens
wait.. no that is all eren right? eren just shows them what he wants them to see? krüger and grisha both had erens future memories there i thought
Props to Girsha's VA. He really delivers the line with so much emotion. You can feel the regret and sadness in every line.
For someone so obsessed with the idea of freedom, having the attack titan would be the worst possible punishment.
How could anyone possibly be free if the future is a known thing, no matter what he does every step he takes is guided by his future self. Doomed to walk in his own footsteps.
Or to quote Eren "Those that push their own backs experience a different kind of hell"
I feel like by the end he no longer believes there's hope, fate is real, freedom is a delusion. He just gives into the rage and directs his vengeance to the world that caused it to be possible.
The only care is that he's not including his friends in that vengeance.
Eren will forever be my favorite character his story writing is amazing
Eren will forever be a KING
Eren is pure evil like A. Wesker
@@Edd211 eh i wouldnt say he's pure evil. Not to sugar coat what he did, but if he's evil he'd probably enjoyed the process much more
@Edu Alves He literally sacrificed himself and his happiness to build a different world for his friends and his people. It's true that only in that way they will be truly free. He just has the guts to do it no matter the hate he will get.
nah, he's a slave of the timeline itself, he's got no other choice
@@keane4464 it's not he was bound to do this..he choosed to do this because the other was of negotiations to peace was not happening..so eren decided to go 'I al atomic'...
Kruger's "if you want to save Mikasa and Armin" memory may have come from Grisha. It's word-for-word what Grisha said when he injected Eren. Kruger also told Grisha to find someone to love within the walls, as if he'd already seen Grisha's future memories. All this to point out that Eren isn't the only Attack Titan to send memories back.
I'm confident Grisha changed when Zeke turned him in. Remember his complete emotional breakdown when Kruger tells him to inherit that Titan? Yup, that's what makes me think so
Grisha had no hesitation once he learned of Carla's death
How much more is the man supposed to suffer
I've been preparing this comment for quite some time to explain what happened here. Trust me, this is worth reading and ofc, without spoilers (also, there will not be any other explanation in the following episodes up until the end so...).
Two thousand years ago, the titans were born from the powers of Ymir and in the previous episode, Zeke told us that she is a slave of the royal family for unknown reasons (at least for now). In this episode, Grisha tells us that the attack titan was created to fight the king's self-righteousness and that Frieda (the royal family) was unaware of it. In other words, Ymir would have created the attack titan behind the back of the royal family.
We know that each primordial can see the memories of its predecessors (Porco seeing Marcel's memories or Armin with Bertholdt). But, in this episode, we learned that the attack titan has the power to read the memories of its future holders. This power, only Eren discovered it... When? How?. The response is simple: by mistake. When Eren kissed Historia's hand, he saw his father killing the royal family but he also saw his father chatting with Zeke and his future self.
The power of the attack titan is not to see the future directly but simply to observe the memories of the next holder if this one accepts it. For example, at the end of the episode, Grisha does not see Zeke, he sees himself, facing Zeke, from Eren's point of view. You can see Eren as a camera where he can choose, whenever he wants, to share his current vision to his predecessors. Then, to "know" the future, he has to share his vision to the predecessors and then see in Grisha's memories what's going to happen.
There can only be one future (obviously). So when Eren decided to share his memories, he writes history, and the future cannot change anymore, otherwise his memories could not be transmitted to others and history would change. It's fate.
When Eren shows his memories, he transmits them to all his predecessors simultaneously. Now you know why Eren was saying "TATAKAE" in front of the mirror: he was actually sharing his memories and using the mirror so that his predecessors can see him.
Try to imagine: the first person gets the attack titan two thousand years ago and sees Eren telling him "fight, if you don't fight, you can't win". Apart from this person, all those who inherited this titan thought they were seeing the memories of the first owner, when in fact, they were seeing the memories of the last owner of this titan.
Exactly, Eren must be the last attack titan, because if there is a new one, he could share is memories to change history and that is not possible.
To be precise, Grisha was also aware of the impact of the future on his time. When Eren shared his memories, by "mistake", he revealed the presence of Zeke. From this moment, Grisha start understanding the power of the attack titan.
Another thing: Now, we know why Eren Kruger said "To save Mikasa, Armin, and everyone else, you must see it through.". In fact, everyone who had the attack titan knew they had to save Mikasa and Armin, but they didn't know it was future memories.
-------> To be clear: the moment the attack titan was created by Ymir, the whole story was written and could not be changed. To understand how the story is written, you have to admit that the story is written from the end.
Okay, so Eren wants freedom for him and his friends. When he thinks he got that freedom, he shares his memories and the past can't change. In fact: two thousand years of history has been written at that exact moment. Inevitably, we are going to the future that Eren saw, and no one can change a thing.
If for example, Eren wanted to be a pizza maker (yeah...), the attack titan goal would not be to fight the king's self-righteousness, but to make pizza and the history would have been different. That's because Eren wants freedom that every holder of the attack titan wanted freedom as well.
Eren Kruger told us on the wall that Grisha was "chosen" to have the attack titan. In fact, this titan is transmitted each time to someone revolutionary. Indeed, if someone revolutionary has the attack titan, he will want to bequeath it to someone who shares his revolutionary ideas and that's how the titan has travelled through history to "fight" the royal line.
It's funny to see that Zeke thought that Eren was being manipulated by his father, when we learn that Eren was manipulating two thousand years of history ^^.
The story is actually a loop:
Grisha steals the founding titan -> Grisha gives both titans to Eren -> Eren can attack Marley -> He can "kidnap" Zeke -> they can "touch" each other -> they can travel in Grisha's memory -> Eren can "contact" Grisha through memories and tell him to steal the founding titan -> ... (loop)
This is the ultimate paradox of Attack on Titan. You can't find a beginning to the story except from the end.
Another paradox:
Eren ordered Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> So he's going to look for his daughter (Historia) -> he will get killed by her -> She will become the new Queen of Eldia -> Eren will kiss her hand for the presentation of survey corps medals -> So he can look at his father's memories and see himself ordering to Grisha to spare Rod Reiss -> ... (loop)
Here is my last point:
When Zeke wanted to use his scream, Eren said "Wait!". At first sight, we can think that Eren hesitates and does not want to lose the people dear to him (Pixis for example). It's not that at all. Eren tells him to wait a second, so that Falco, his brother (Colt) and Gabi can arrive and do their dialogue. Once Zeke uses his scream, he orders Falco to "defend" Eren. That's what allows Eren's run. Also, without that little second, Gabi wouldn't be there and couldn't shoot Eren.
Since Eren kissed Historia's hand, there are many details like that and I encourage you all to watch AOT again to find out more.
Thanks you for reading this, AND LOVE YOU TWO ;)
Can't agree more
WELL DONE SOLDIER
hope they read this
leaving a like so they can this
god I love aot and this comment
I like Ange still trying to see things from Eren's perspective. I think that's the whole point of the show, that there is no absolutely right answer. Ultimately how far would you go to save your world and everyone you love.
16:02 It’s simpler that that. Eren has the founding Titan. The founder allows for Eren to influence the past, since the coordinate and the paths exist outside of time. If another attack titan ever controlled the founder, then they could also enact their will on history. But that never happened.
Understanding the Attack Titan and how it can affect memory is so crazy. It feels so tragic that Eren saw his own future back in Season 3 and saw the path he would have to go down. It’s an interesting take on time travel and freedom of choice.
When he kissed historia's hand, he saw himself, from his fathers POV, manipulating his father. Thats why he looked so messed up ever since then. Eren is someone who values freedom more than anything, and he learned that, nevermind freedom, he doesn't even have _free will_ as his future is already determined.
I don't know about that "future is already determined part". There might be some limit and that limit would be Eren himself. If Eren only wanted the founding Titan, Grisha could've easily given to what Eren wants but no, Eren wants Frieda's siblings killed too. It might have to do with one of Eren's valued friends - Historia, her future, her queenship, her charity for abandoned kids, her safety and political influence and position in power, etc.. I think Eren already changed some of the past that would benefit his friends and what we are currently seeing right now is the best path that Eren sees for his friends and his people.
@@RyzenShanks Well heres what we know, future Eren influenced Grisha without (at that time) present Eren's knowledge. So that at that time was not Erens will influencing that time. That was a future event influencing the past. As the literal ability is _future holders send whatever memories they want to previous holders_.
Meaning the future, relative to the present, influences the past.
There are two possible logical conclusions of this.
1. There are infinite parallel universes all with time slightly offset, and Grisha is actually being influenced by a near identical Eren from a parralel universe. This would mean that, in any given timeline, that timelines individual future is not inherently set, but is influenced by timelines which are moving along side them, slightly ahead in time.
2. There is one timeline, and in this timeline, the timelines own future influences the timelines past, meaning for the past to have been influenced, the future must have already been determined at that given point.
Most people go with conclusion 2, as it fits in best with the ideas about freedom (or lack there of)
@@felix_patriot How does number 2 work if the timeline is linear succession of events. Why does the future Eren (having the founding titan) still need to influence the hesitating Grisha in the past just to get the founding Titan? If future Eren didn't do it, he would still have it in another way right?
@@RyzenShanks Its not linear. Dont confuse "1 timeline" for "1 linear timeline". Since the future is already determined, every decision everyone would ever make was calculated from the very beginning of the universe, and therefore since it was all essentially _written at the same time, destined to happen,_ there can be interaction between future and past without a paradox.
if you find this kind of stuff interesting, i would recommend reading up on predeterminism.
Im an anime only like you guys.
I also had that question also about why only eren was like able to influence the past attack titans. Remember that kruger and grisha has always been saying that the attack titan “has always been fighting for freedom”. This means that eren’s will is so strong that the past attack titans would want to obey eren’s will.
Now, this would pop out a follow up question, “then why hasnt the further future inheritors of the attack titan influence eren and the others???” -the only possible answer is, “is because eren is gonna be the last attack titan”. It would be so much of a plothole if eren isnt the last one.
Now, remember that if a titan shifter dies without passing it on, a newborn will inherit it, but we already established that eren is the last attack titan, therefore, somehow, eren will end the titan bloodline or wish to ymir to stop people from becoming titans anymore or any other way. This has got to be the ending of aot.
Thanks if you read
As a manga reader myself , I have to say that's a good analysis from u
@@azmalftw hmmmm i don’t know where i hit the bulls eye but dont tell me 😅 and thanks!
@@ruscul7155 yeah don't worry I won't spoil anything... Next season will be one of the best if adapted properly
@@azmalftw maybe if AOE happens.
@@azmalftw yeah. Still wont read manga. Im gonna wait for the anime. 😅
“Why is Zeke looking at Eren as if he’s this outrageous monster”
If only they knew 😂😂😂
never turned my back on Eren, we don't need to justify his action but we can still love him. Eren is my favorite from start to last.
Same
Same
His actions are justified though. He never started this but he’ll end it. It may be extreme but it’s understandable.
@@Aartisme that’s why it’s understandable but not justified.
Same
Your words ANGE fit the descripton of what is happening in the show i couldnt phrase it better myself .
"EREN has seen the only path for saving his people", "EREN doing everything for armin and mikasa" AND "show has done a good job of VILLAINIZING EREN"
Also Grisha was never as cold-blooded as Eren or Kruger, he even felt disgusted about the guy who fed his sister to dogs getting eaten by a titan.
yep, eren also felt no remorse when he killed many children while grisha went crazy about it right
Grisha's tragic stories
His sister died and his parents cover it up
His first son betrays him
His first wife and all of his comrades are turned into titans in front of him
His second wife was eaten by his first wife
And now.. his second son manipulated him
He is a character who suffers a lot
That's was heartbreaking.. oh my god 😭
I am not sure and correct me if I am wrong but, when the attack on Marley happened eren said now or never Mikasa without seeing her and she appears behind him so I guess he saw that scene before , there is so much cool shit about this ability in this show and it’s kinda explain Erens strange behavior.
Zeke drags Eren into Grishas memories to change Eren's mind.
Eren: Look at me, I'm the captain now 😎
By taking Eren into the memories, Zeke unwittingly made the entire show happen. If Eren hadn't been there to convince Grisha to follow through on taking the Founding from the Reiss, the Warriors (Reiner and co) would have succeeded and wiped out Paradis from the inside while Frieda was unable/unwilling to fight back.
Eren was behind everything. All along.
In my eyes Eren didn't start it all
It was marlin how set the stones into motion.
By breaking the walls
If marlin never sent the child soldiers eren's dad would not have a reason to get the founding Titans power.
Because Eren's his mom wouldn't have died and Eren wouldn't have needed that power to save every in the second wall by closing it up.
Eren did give his dad the attack titan power back on the walls.
To save Armin and Mikasa before they where born.
@@sownheard even after editing ur comment u didn't managed to correct it 💀, but ur eng is fine
I've seen worse
Nah this whole story started with the creation of the Attack Titan and his special power.
That's the thing, everyone in this show have killed people, saddly, that's how cruel the AOT world is. Everyone is fighting for what they believe it's the "right" thing to do. And i really love how the anime gives you a lot of perspectives. The writing is amazing.
Honestly yeah! For most of the season, I held onto the hope that it was all a fluke and Eren would reveal a grand scheme that would sit right with me, but after this episode I realised that I was wrong and I should just let go lol. Just wait till you see the next episode too.
Great reaction guys! Really love hearing your thoughts and listening to you guys discuss.
In regard to Ange's question about it being when we turned our back to Eren: to me there is a huge difference between hating Eren and hating what he's doing. Personally I hate what he's doing and I can't root for him to succeed in what he's planning to do. But I still love him to bits! He's gone through so much, I understand where he's coming from, I'm convinced he himself hate what he's doing (like Ange said, that's why he was asking Hange to show him another way), but still feels he has to do it. My heart breaks for him, to me he's the second most tragic character in AoT.
is reiner no.1 or zeke?
@@kaidothedragon2821 no ymir
@@Endisfree_ disagree, but everone has his own op
@@kaidothedragon2821ymir fritz? I don’t really think it’s an opinion to say she’s suffered the most. She has been a slave making titans for 2000 years in a realms where a few seconds feel like years. That’s easily trillions of years suffering for nothing. Not even to mention her life before paths. It doesn’t even compare
@@Endisfree_ Oh no I agree to that, I thought you were talikng about S2 Ymir
Some time ago I read a comment that said that Eren is the son that Grisha would have wanted in Marley and Zeke the son that he would have wanted in Eldia
Fun fact: Eren Yeager was nominated for both best protagonist and antagonist of the year at crunchyrole anime awards.
our boy become the biggest villain for the whole time. freakin plot twist.
Ange: I am not a Jaegerist, I do not condone his actions.
Also Ange: Eren means well, he is making the hard decisions.
Ange: I am not a Jaegerist, I do not condone his actions.
Eren: Kills adults as a child, manipulates his father to kill so he gets the Founding
Also Ange: Eren was acting selflessly.
These quotes are completely inaccurate 😂
@@CarlieAndAnge They are a bit accurate, more or less😂 I've been keeping tabs 😂
When Shasa die Eren laughs and began to lament moments after, because he understands that the future, that he saw in his future memories, can't be changed
Eren is one of the best characters ever written
That little comment from Grisha during the episode while he's talking to Frieda "My wife, son, and daughter" just really hits. Grisha only had Mikasa in his life for a single year at the point but he considered her a daughter, cared for her in a way he hadn't cared for any other little girl since his sister was killed. Heartstrings have been pulled, the ninjas are cutting onions.
I love how much more solem Ange and Carlie are here. Awesome reaction guys. Can't wait for the next one. Minor spoiler next episode is next level.
that was a lot!! seen it for the 1st time shook me to my core I was like wtf just happened. I understand ange feeling this way especially that eren is his favorite character but with everything eren went through and the tole of all these memories, him changing isn't really strange, I watched this season until episode 22 and stopped to continue with you guys so happy you guys made it 🤩
It's very easy to hate Eren for the choices that he made and it's also very easy to forget that somebody had to make that choice.
True, but its also easy to see how every else (except Gabi and Eren) have learned from their choices, or other peoples choices, and want or wish to be better or make better choices. While Eren seems to be escalating the cycle of violence, or causing history to repate itself on a bigger scale. Zeke was trying to break the cycle. We don't know what Eren is doing in this episode other than not supporting Euthanasia plan and forcing Grisha and Kruger to make the choices that lead to this episode. With all the double fakes and plot twists thrown into the story, I doubt we will know before the end of series.
@@omegaspecter Gabi definitely learned from her actions wtf
my fav episode!! i was so mind blown after watching it
because eren is the last attack titan
The blondie that was talking to Mikasa about the scarf in the last episode is the same girl that Mikasa saved back in trost in season 1 from the titan who she saluted to in response to her thanks. Was a sweet moment then but she now idolize's Mikasa.
15:38 So, the Attack Titan's ability is that he can have glimpses of the future of its NEXT inheritor.
So, Kruger could only have glimpses of Grisha's future and Grisha could only have glimpses of Eren's future. This means it wasn't Eren that spoke to Grisha through Kruger but Grisha himself.
The first time we heard the phrase "If you want to save Armin and Mikasa..." was when Kruger was talking to Grisha in the wall. The second time was when Grisha gave Eren the Attack Titan in the forest.
Now, if Eren said that to Grisha and Grisha showed that to Kruger that's not only mind-boggling but it actually opens many doors for discussion.
Remember what Kruger said about the nature of the Attack Titan, when it said the iconic "tatakae" or something similar.
its absolutely amazing when you rewatch the previous seasons after watching S4 or after reading the manga. You'll notice little nuances that at first watch, didn't mean anything, but now knowing what you know, it just means so much more. One example is after the battle in Trost and the soldiers we're cleaning up and gathering the dead bodies. There was a scene that lasted for like 3 seconds, where Annie was saying 'i'm sorry' while looking at the pile of dead people. At first you'll think she's saying sorry because they died, but she's actually apologizing since they died because of her/them doing their mission.
Discussion in the end was amazing....,imagine if Daenerys Targaryen had similar character development before going batshit crazy, GOT would've been my favorite series.
Everytime i see this scene i always cry about it its so emotional omg
Eren is so tragic. A slave to his own quest for freedom.
"Keep moving forward. Even after death."
I've been waiting for your reaction to this episode! This one blew my mind o.O
My favorite episode for this part of the season hands down.
Craziest part to consider is Grisha's line about "I killed them all, except the father, just like you told me." This implies that entire developments of seasons one to three were of Eren's doing. Without Rod Reiss leaving alive, there's no way that Historia ends up becoming queen, and by default, Eren kissing her hand.
In fact, without Historia being forced into the scouts, Ymir would have never even joined them, which would have drastically affected the entirety of season 2 (Pretty much Ymir's season), which lead to the scouts understanding Titans a lot more, and to Eren discovering his ability to control Titans through the use of a titan of royal blood.
And going even further, it's very likely that even if the military had still managed to pull of their coup, without Historia as a figurehead, they would have never gotten the support of the populace.
So, future Eren is the reason most of the events of the three previous seasons happened at all.
Fully agree with this, it feels as if Eren sent memories just to make sure (or generate) that things would transpire as they should, or rather hsi future self remembered.
The only thing i keep thinking about is how did Eren "told Griesha" to kill all but Rod Reiss as he referenced. Was it just Eren sometime before showing memories of those events transpiring while on the paths to Griesha, and then Griesha though they were messages on how to do it ?
This is a mind-blowing ep and Grisha's VA is on another level really, can't wait for next one!!
More and more the series goes on, Eren seems to go from main protagonist to main antagonist. It's kind of the opposite for Zeke. We saw all of Eren's evolution from season 1 to now. From season 1 to 3: Eren is the reason to be able to save humanity against the titans and to be able to face the higher grade titan, the Beast Titan. Season 4: Zeke has to stop Eren somehow.
Knowing the Attack (shredded) Titan's ability, we can understand why Kruger said to Grisha: If you want to save Armin and Mikasa! Then seems confused about who's memories are those. It was Grisha or Eren's memories.
Great reactions as usual! This episode was very emotional. It's kind of hard to believe to feel so sorry for Zeke or even cried for him, mostly since when we know about the Beast titan from season 2. Keep up the great work! 🤗
So basically Eren got spoiled the whole show when he kissed Historia's hand ...
not only that, he saw his future self doing terrible things and cusing untold numbers of deaths and knew that he HAS to do them because the future has already been decided in order for these memories to reach him; the attack titan see's future memories, not "potential future memories", so the things he see's WILL happen because otherwise he wouldn't see them.
it's no wonder why he looks so broken and acts so different after kissing Historia's hand, he knows the future looks grim and he HAS to make it happen that way
@@thesyndrome43 very true, also why I think eren is paradoxically the least free person in aot
If you notice, each time Grisha sees Zeke. Eren is positioned behind Grisha and he’s looking at Zeke.
My favorite episode, honestly. This is the moment i fully rooted for Eren. At first he was just a Angry Kid but now it's someone read to sacrifice everything to save his people (eldians).
The post reaction discussion in this ep was so good ! :P
"We'll always have Mr. Braun" hahaha lol
To anyone upset. Eren had no choice. He looked for other options. It was either he let his home get destroyed or he destroys everyone else. Either way it would be the same result, but different victims.
Eren didn’t see a better choice, but we don’t know there wasn’t one. “Glimpses into future memories” doesn’t mean full knowledge or control. Just in this episode we can see that the memory sharing effects are more like persuasion than mind control (e.g. we end with Grisha arguing back). Likewise, there’s no reason to be sure Eren is omniscient and omnipotent, and to what degree his situation is free or fatalistic. Especially since at this point we don’t know what “future memories” (if any) he has access to, and what his complete plan looks like. In general, reading the story as a trolley problem (ie. the characters are stuck with strongly predetermined bad either/or choices) may be fun, but lets be cautious when the fandom piles up its own head canons on top of the limited information that’s actually given. Isayama treaded the line with many moral dilemmas, leaving enough up to interpretation that we can keep arguing about this. Some theme directions may become clearer in future episodes; during 4x20 though the audience still has way more questions than answers.
This is patently incorrect and a misreading. Eren does have a choice, he simply won't make any different ones because he can't or won't change himself. If what you were saying was true, he could have tried any number of ways to avoid the future - but he doesn't - because he agrees with it. Eren is a slave to himself. He is not bound any more than that. This is THE ENTIRE REASON Eren says him and Reiner are alike, he does what he does because that is who he is and he believes Reiner is the same way.
@@Tyrantofthewind I get what your saying, but Eren did what he had to keep his friends safe. It’s not his fault Marley made everyone hate the Eldians. Eldia was never going to survive, so he made it survive as long as he could. He only said they’re alike because they both had to the things they did to “save the world.” The whole point of the story is hate spreads hate. As bad as Erens actions are he did what he had to to achieve his goal.
It's called taking out just the alliance
No, he did have a choice. He could've agreed to make Historia a Titan while Paradis develops technologically but for certain reasons he didn't want to do that.
The episode that changes EVERYTHING.
Now comes the part where we can just flop everything on the table, spoilers don't matter anymore when Eren has been spoiling himself and every other Attack Titan in the past. Eren has been in control of the whole story. In fact, there are a bunch of spots in even season 1 where you see a figure in a jacket that looks like Present Eren watching Past Eren and friends, as early as Episode 2!
It's ironic and tragic when you think about it: Eren as a character has always desired freedom above all else, and here he is trapped in a set destiny of his own making. He knows the future and knows how events must play out to get to the future he wants. So in theory he could make different choices if he wanted to, but he knows he won't because otherwise it won't lead to the future he wants for his friends.
So he is trapped on this railroad and all the atrocious decisions that lay along it. You'll find out exactly how much control Eren has over this story in further episodes, but let's just say it's not just Grisha killing the Reiss family that made Eren make that horrified face.
If you know the future, doesn't mean you can go everywhere you want. You just know where the path leading you
this concept got me mind f'd for days. imagine having a first hand account of a moment your are living while at the same time having a second person account of a memory of a moment you are currently living in. i feel like if you have too many memories like that it would just turn you insane, you wouldnt know what was present or past
Okay, so fun fact, look close and you can notice that Grisha is seeing these memories through the eyes of Eren too. That’s why it seems like he always knows where Eren is. When Eren sends his memories back to Grisha, they’re always going to be through Eren’s perspective. They aren’t connected to his will. This is just his plan and he has been sending select memories back specifically only to try to influence them in the direction Eren wants
I support Eren until death, even after death. I keep moving forward.
Eren is pure evil like A. Wesker
@@Edd211 we all know eren is trying to do whatever it takes ensure his people survival, few hard calls had to be made along the way, deep down almost everyone understands where Eren is coming from.
14:05
Couldn't be more agreed, Grisha's voice actor are amazing!!! Finally someone mention it up. Great
right at the door when Grisha is holding the key to his chest, in the memory where eren wants to join the scouts. Grisha is talking and not looking at his family but he is looking directly at future Eren, like he is talking directly to him. Pretty awesome stuff.
"I will not cast Eren away because of this episode!"
Next episode: "Fine, I will finish the job!"
What I got from the flashback with the king's family was that Grisha had decided that he couldn't do it and had given up.. but then Eren egged him on by sending him memories.. so, in the end.. it wasn't just Grisha that killed them.. it was Eren convincing him to do it by showing him that specific moment as well as the future, showing Grisha the result of whatever plan Eren has in store for them all after this episode... and then at the end, Grisha begs Zeke to stop Eren.. because apparently Zeke's euthanization plan must be kind by comparison. Just chills, man.
I've always liked Eren, before watching this season I read all S4 on the manga until the end, like in 3 hours... I remember being like not rooting for Eren with his plan but still liked him very much because I was convinced he was doing all that for a better future or something.
Things in AoT are always waaay more complex than they seem to be at first.
Eren is my favorite character of the series and he will always be... it is just so well written, and ofc he's fine AF not gonna lie 😂
That's war...no side is wrong in their perspective..each side fighting for something they think what is the best for their people n future.
For those who didn't understand why grisha saw or see zek . The owner of the giant sees the future from the perspective of the owner of the future giant, meaning that Grisha saw Zeke from the perspective of Eren. and Eren was behind Grisha
One of the reasons i like your reactions is just because of Anges view on the world and morals. I agree with literally everything you said so far and especially what you said in this episode.
ANGELOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO no ep today ? 🥺
Attack on Titan, as you can probably see right now, is a show that offers no answers, only problems and what characters decide to about those problems. From the start, the show has been showing the different reactions people have to the reality of deciding between self-preservation and self-sacrifice, showing the horrors as well as the triumphs of people on both sides. Eren is determined to self-sacrifice, and he was ALWAYS talking about how it's for humanity, but as is true for everyone else in the show we also have our own personal reasons for doing these things. When those both align, a person becomes very powerful, but when they are not aligned they crumble or falter. We see this with eren, we see it with Mikasa, and we saw it with Erwin. But what makes this show great is we also see it with the non-main characters of the show, the "normal" people. How they panic in fear, but also have faith in those who will fight, and how they go back and forth. Nobody knows what's really right, the only difference is how much we believe, and what we are willing to do to show it to others, and also to ourselves. After all, we *all* need something to live for. Everyone is drunk on SOMETHING. It's the only way to deal with the awful things that come with being alive and sentient I think, but that's what I get from this show.
I'm done with the anime and i've read the manga and after all that eren is still my fav character, i never let him down bc i truly can understand his reasons and the fact that he's such a tragic character makes it way better, it's okay if you like eren or not, his actions are very very cuestionables hahaha i guess it depens in the light you're seeing it
Yes!! I think ppl forget what reiner zeke annie did!! They murdered ppl knowing they were INNOCENT and still kept killing them!! Eren is the same he knows they are innocent ppl but still doing all of this for his friends!!
Yes genocide is not acceptable but the entire world despise them not just marley 👀 if it was just marley he would have stopped.
But thats just me…
My favourite shredding the evidence segment of all time
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the hero, the anti hero, the anti villain and the villain himself eren yeager🙏
I don't think there are many people 100% turning their backs on Eren, it's more like getting away from him.
For me, this kind of feeling towards Eren doesn't have an exact turning point, it's not just this episode, but building up through the whole Season 4.
The part where he utilized Falco, the moment he shouted at Hanji and draggd her clothes, the moment he called Mikasa a slave and said how much he hated her, the moment he punched Armin to bleeding, the moment he knew exactly how many Eldian soldiers would become Titans but he still let them drink the wine(so that he could take advantage of Zeke to carry out his own plan), and this episode forcing his dad to kill. Eren never truly achieved anything on his own in the 3 seasons before, it's always teamwork. Rather than shutting his friends out and keeping his comrades in dark, he should at least let those who are closest to him know what he's up to, and try to discuss if there's a better way out. But no, he didn't. He pushed everyone away, not telling them what his plan is, acting like a lonely hero as if his plan is the only way that could save Eldians, while his friends still need to save his ass, endure his insult and be confused about who to trust.
I think people still understand his position and motivation, but just hold a question mark on does he really have to go this far? Isn't there really a better way? Does he really successfully protect Eldians like he planed after everything he did(thinking about Sasha, Levi, Pixis and those soldiers who were turned into Titans so that Eren could use Zeke)?
Nice reations as always. On Eren, I guess I hold the same position as Carlie. I gotta say Ange is a firm Jeagerist tho🤣🤣 But don't worry about that. This show, not only the content itself, but also reactions of all the readers and audiences, together they refleted just how different people and their views can be.
What i think is that attack titans rebellious nature from the very beginning is due to Eren past manipulation. He might have manipulated the very first attack titan and then the upcoming inheritors like he manipulated his father and even some of the kruger memories.Its just my thoughts so if anyone thinks they are wrong u can freely tell.
I agree...the very description of the attack titan (keeps moving forward in the pursuit of freedom) is the description of eren.. its more like the attack titan itself is eren and it just resided in different body's throughout time
This episode made me love eren even more than I thought possible. He's got brilliant tolerance to all the horrors he can see through his titan powers. He still makes the choices that is best to save his friends and hometown, who may I add suffured a whole deal without even doing anything wrong. I think that he's selfless and caring tbh
The lengths Ange is willing to go to defend Eren gives my life a meaning.
Is he right? Hell no. But as an Eren simp from that shirt wearing scene.... I understand!
Btw the children weren't dead, it was just the female Titan Blood 💀