Editing that new Mexican radar scope style was fun. Also thanks to that subscriber for sharing his sim reconstruction to show the aircraft and ECAM display. Good job pilots and ATC!
I worked that flight and did not depart 5 hours later, the airplane was grounded for 2 days until the AOG pieces arrived. False info on that, the rest of the video was great
Really appreciate the new radar map format and also the translations., this is why you are gaining more people coming to your channel because you have figured out how to stay ahead of the game and take the rest of us for the ride
Air shuttle really did their best to increase the controller's workload despite the emergency on frequency. Seems like they were unwilling to load a fix for holding that wasn't on their flight plan already. Then they ended up requesting vectors!
Air Shuttle 5861, I have a number for you to call regarding your lack of current destination area charts and approach plates, advise when ready to copy!
@@VASAviation From what I can tell, the AVROD intersection is on the high altitude IFR charts, the intersection the controller was mentioning is on the approach plate. It's possible the pilot was referring to an old chart, or a navigation chart instead of the correct ILS approach plate.
@@MatthewWalster well he was not listening that well either. First time round she spelled APDAV fonetically and in spellingalfabet and then he comes back, can you spell that, second time he comes back AADAV after she spelled APDAV fonetically and in spellingalfabet and then she corrects APDAV Alpha Papa etc again. Maybe he was too absorbed in his chart or he was not a nice guy, he failed on listening.
@@bertbergers9171 Nope. At 9:00 you can hear the controller give him the DME-3 approach, but he reads back DME-2 and the controller doesn't catch it. All of the waypoints he is referencing are on the DME-2 Approach, while the points she is giving him are on the DME-3. With her accent it can be quite hard for a native english speaker to pick everything up perfectly, I really can't blame him.
Air Shuttle had the wrong approach, if you take a look on the charts, they should be using the RNAV STAR 10 (SAMAR->APDAV->DULNO (IAF)) then use ILS 10 DME *THREE* approach (BUT instead they were following ILS 10 DME *TWO* approach). That's why they see the fix AVROD (IAF) (which is on the ILS 10 DME *TWO* chart)...09:00 they even read back the wrong approach...anyway...kudos to the controller and thanks for great vid always.
Thanks! I was wondering what was going on! I even noticed the controller was just about to ask them what star they were flying when she said "call you back in a minute"
I like how the American crew spoke clearly, confidently and direct about the services needed. I don't hear communications that clear on incidents in the states usually. It reminded me of the way British Airways handles emergency communication in the US.
@@clarkgriswold-zr5sb Her English was fine. Americans need to learn how to cope with accents. They can't even understand other English L1 speakers half the time.
Glad everything turned out safely! As a Private Pilot and ATC trainee it's always interesting to see how different scenarios affect both pilot and atc planning. I kept switching between thinking like the pilots and thinking like atc. I love aviation! Thanks for your videos.
what was with that Air Shuttle flight 5861. Just being a pain poor ATC had to tell them everything 3 and 4 times, even spelled out that holding point, and then they turn around and ask her to spell it...omg...Not sure if just lazy or playing stupid so could land right anyways (understand the need to confirm but this was a whole new level). That ATC deserves a Great big KUDO's for being professional
Fix could have been inop, returning a “not found” when he plugged in the read back, leading him to believe that he was hearing wrong when in reality his equipment was just malfunctioning.
Americans don't deal well with accents, generally. I've seen them often have trouble with non-american L1 English speakers. I put it down to the country being so insular, poorly educated, and culturally constrained.
Additionally, the controller offered to just let him hold at the 14 mile point on the course, eliminating the need to find a fix in the database. He really didn't want to hold.
@@k.pacificnw02134 Basically, because AAL387 had an engine failure, they wanted to inspect the runway and the aircraft after landing. They needed ASH5861 to hold at one of the waypoints on their flightplan while they carried out this inspection. For some reason, the pilot on ASH5861 wasn't able to find the waypoint ATC requested, even after she spelled it out twice.
Yeah I've raised eyebrows why 5861 does not have maps to find a waypoint if it's not on flight plan... Would they completely lost if something goes different?
ASH5861, are those guys VATSIM pilots??? I mean, come on, they are unable to find the IAF for the approach that they are expecting, or even just to put in a waypoint into their FMC and hold there as instructed... I hear that phrase "we dont have that in our flight plan" almost every session when I am controlling on VATSIM, but never really heard that in real life. And doing holding paterns 14 DME out shouldn't be a problem either for a seasoned pilot, either you do them by hand or program that into the FMC, the are far enough out and have enough time to do that. That one pilot really unnecessary congested the frequency with that while an emergency is in progress and put unnecessary workload on the controller, not that she was incapable or anything like that, it's just not helping, especially if the emergency aircraft's status would have worsened all of the sudden.
Yeah, but... ATC wasn't really the most helpful as well. I could only understand her "Papa" because it was spelled out on screen. From verbal only, this could be any of a number of words. I'm normally very lenient when it comes to aviation english - I myself am not a native speaker and anyone would surely identify my heavy german accent right off the bat. But there is some line you just can't go below. And that line is certainly reached if your accent is so heavy that it gets difficult to understand the NATO phonetic alphabet. This is *so basic* to international air travel that it is unacceptable to not pronounce them in a clear and concise manner. [Edit: To be clear - the pilot should've been able to find it regardless. At the latest when she told him to hold over the "initial approach fix for your planned approach". That is a little unorthodox, because you rarely hold over an approach fix like that, but it's certainly easy to find on your charts and computer if you did the prep correctly.] [Edit2: Two other planes had to ask for clarification as well, not being able to give immediate readback, indicating that they didn't understand her well, either.]
Marcel bro, shut up..... You're sitting there at your computer whilst reading subtitles, you have NO idea the quality of the audio that the pilots heard. You think the pilot is unprofessional but there you have an ICAO controller issuing instructions by spelling out words in non-phonetics? I gave high props to the crew for simply asking for vectors in the end, great airmanship.
@@cohen200 Oh wow, I didn't even consider this. But you're right.. She spelled them with just the letters and only switched to NATO when he couldn't understand. That's bad procedure on top of the lack in language proficiency...
@@cohen200 Well actually, in the first call she said direct APDEV, without spelling. After the pilot asked for her to say it again, she spelled it out both in ICAO/NATO phonetics and normal spelling. Yes the normal spelling is weird, but even looking away from the subtitles, I can understand her (and I'm a non native speaker). Nevertheless, the crew should have recognized the waypoint, because they probably briefed their approach, where things like IAF, FAF/FAP should come up. Regarding radio clarity I can say, that most of the time what the pilots hear is way better what we are hearing in those videos, because the radio scanners that are used for these recordings usually have way less powerful antenntas that those comms in an airplane. Also the scanner is at appx. ground level where buildings/trees/hills could weaken the signal.
I knew you would do it, thank you!! Just one thing, the aircraft didn’t depart 5 hours later, it had to stay in Guadalajara for at least 2 days. ¡Buen video como siempre y gracias!
Air Shuttle (Mesa Airlines) sounds pretty incompetent on basic holding instructions. This is all basic stuff you are prepared for don't rely on ATC to hold your pony hand.
Thanks for the amazing content man keep it up ! (If you ever need help to translate communications to French I’m a native Canadian speaker from Montreal so hit me up)
Spanish speaking ATC during emergency: cool, calm, good English with a slight accent American native speaking ATC at JFK during normal operations: Cletolan.
@@Trek001 I am a mom. 3 kids in 17 months. Intimidation is my Jam! Okay, yes, she did successfully land a plane without a front wheel last year? The first time I read the reference, I did have to do the Google, I have no shame. Stay safe and Stay sane! Peace!
I’m troubled about the cause of the engine failure. I know you can’t run down every bit of info for us, Victor, I really am thankful for all the work you DO do for us in these awesome presentations, and it shows. But I’m still curious!😁 Wonder what happened to that engine? Any warnings, no matter how seemingly mundane, in previous flight(s) that day (if any)? I’m just curious about the backstories to these hiccups in flight.
Hello, I have a little question: Do you have acess to ATC all around the world? Because LiveATC only shows us a few countries but I have found videos on your channel that show also non-LiveATC-airports
There is always one. No. English is required as the international language that all international pilots must speak, but Spanish pilots speak Spanish in Spanish countries, ditto French, Russian, Italian etc.
jjaus very interesting. I noticed this as well here in Quebec Canada when the pilots speak French. I thought it was important for safety to have all pilots aware of what is going on in their frequency and if they do not speak the local language they will not be fully aware.
@@riversquash Even if everyone is speaking English, I am not sure how aware pilots would be of the big picture. They do have TCAS, but unless I am not up to date, it just shows dots and whether the a/c is descending and its altitude above or below. Tracon and en route radar shows every a/c and all information.
Standard Emergency Return. Air Shuttle as usual causing problems. Just a quick Observation - When there is a Emergency Aircraft situation, shouldn't there be 1 language spoken until the situation is resolved?? I realize that it was Mexico, but having Spanish mixed with English could cause confusion in the emergency aircraft cockpit with communications. It was just a thought,
English is the ICAO standard for international communication. International pilots and controllers must be proficient in aviation English. The controller properly communicated with the American flight in English at all times. Spanish is an ICAO recognized language for local and regional communications. Not sure why having Spanish spoken on frequency would affect the emergency aircraft. While working the emergency aircraft crew would be focused only on communication directed to them in English.
It's not Airbus's fault. These new efficient low pollution jet engines from all the manufacturers are giving every operator frustrations. GE, RR, PW, are all making aircraft operators frustrated with lower than expected reliability and fuel efficiency.
Surprised to hear a Korean flight climbing at Guadalajara and the 3-digit number isn't typical of cargo flights. KAL278 is Guadalajara-Vancouver-Seoul. Seems like a very odd passenger route.
Back in the day, Varig (Brasil) used to operate Copenhagen to London Heathrow to Rio de Janeiro. It was worth hopping the CPH LHR leg as a change from the BA or SAS flights, 1st class where they would serve a snack plus champagne to your giant armchair seat. (Before the days of lay flat beds). OK so only 1.5 hour flight but very comfortable!
Why did the approach controller terminate radar services when handing AA387 off to tower? Without radar service, the aircraft is now VFR, and no longer under IFR control?
That is incorrect. IFR is possible without radar coverage with bigger separation, that is how it works over the oceans for example. Either tower has no radar and uses binoculars exclusively while only approach has radar or it was inoperative or the controller just misspeaks out of bad habit (most likely)
that makes more sense. I guess I’m so used to hearing “radar services terminated, squawk VFR” that I didn’t understand what “radar services terminated” by itself meant in an IFR context.
Rick Hornsby - Good question, Rick. From what we have seen and heard, 1. The emergency aircraft was on IFR flight plan. The pilot never cancelled IFR. If he had, then the radar service terminated, maintain VFR, etc., would be appropriate. 2. The emergency aircraft was never cleared for the ILS approach, why not? When approach control service is being provided, the aircraft is vectored to the final, cleared for approach and transferred to tower control at a specified point. The aircraft is under IFR rules until he lands. In a Radar facility, we are trained to provide separation using radar and we non-radar procedures. Non-radar, or procedural, was in use before radar came into usage. Separation, is provided based on time, speed and altitude. A very intense method, and it gets the job done, a bit slower but safely.
Felix Jankowski - Felix, you are talking about two different scenarios. One, is en-route/oceanic traffic, the other is Terminal approach control. It is well known radar coverage is not present over the oceans, so Procedural separation is provided, based on time, speed and altitude. In the Terminal environment, such as here, radar is available. The aircraft was IFR, never cancelled it, it is still IFR until landing. Reason for terminating radar service, would be if radar contact cannot be maintained, due to ground equipment restrictions. In some facilities, the radar is right up there in the tower cab. some do not have it at all. The use of binoculars is not a tool for applying separation, mostly used to locate ground objects or the occasional aircraft in the air.
David Spaulding - Radar, is an expensive bit of equipment. Before funds are allocated, studies are made to justify it. Usually, another facility can provide the approach control service, wether there is a tower or not. DME arcs, came into popularity in the early '70s, nothing new about them, and IFR, simply means you are complying with Instrument Flight Rules, no more, no less.
no their engines are build to be efficient had higher altitude, also less drag due to thinner air and the higher you get, you will find more powerfull winds to give you a boost to your destination. (America to Europe (Jetstream) will be a different route then vv due to windpaterns)
You won't find me trolling. I love Boeing and Airbus planes. My favorites are the 747 and A380 plus the 737 and the a320s . Both companies planes has issues.
Aircraft on a standard departure might have a published speed restriction (& generally below 10,000FT aircraft are restricted to 250 knots or less), the ATC was advising the crew that they could accelerate earlier if they wished.
To add to Sethalapod's response, the departing Korean plane was 'heavy'. Heavy planes on departure can have a very small window between stall speed and the 250kt speed restriction under 10Kft. Some standard departures have published speed restrictions that may fall below a heavy aircraft's stall speed and maneuverability speed. Pilots of 'heavy' designated flights often request high speed departures (while copying IFR clearance from delivery, from the tower, or from departure control - earlier is better for planning) so they don't have to operate in such a narrow speed corridor, thereby increasing safety margins.
It's Mesa Airlines, the crappiest regional airline in the USA. They literally hire anybody that either couldn't get on with any other airlines or failed out of other airline training programs.
I'm just guessing from the way they said it. It sounds like it had already been declared, but they had just changed frequencies and wanted to remind them.
Wow I like the added animation/new map. Of course the engine failure happened to an AA jet..... most of those planes are old as hell and not well maintained.
I believe it excuses them from the 250kts under 10k feet rule. Sometimes very big/heavy aircraft need to fly faster than 250kts to fly "clean" - put away the drag inducing flaps. In order to not climb inefficiently dragging flaps at 250kts, they can climb at say 270kts under 10k and be able to clean up the aircraft.
FifthElement Gaming If you had actually done that yourself you would have found nothing but references to high speed train departure schedules and a PDF explaining what V1, V2 and Vmu are in the first 10 pages. And an answer that may or may not have been true. That’s why I asked here. Thank you for taking the precious time out of your schedule full of undoubtedly critical stuff to be thoroughly unhelpful though, I’m touched.
You don’t know why one engine failed. It could be something that will affect the other engine too. Then you’ll be a very expensive and very inefficient glider...
Mayday by definition is only required if the aircraft is in imminent danger. An engine failure at FL230 can be well controlled for a normal ops landing return. Pan was appropriate given the circumstances.
David Spaulding I think you’ll continue to have a hard time on UA-cam if you’re firing up over someone asking a question/exercising their freedom of speech
David Spaulding common sense would suggest you were irritated when commenting ‘who cares’ and calling someone out for a question but sure let’s play oblivious.
Is it me, or do emergencies seem to happen more frequently these days? It's as if the aircraft aren't getting proper maintenance because of less frequent flying or something.
So is there no longer a requirement to speak English when talking to ATC? How are English speaking pilots supposed to know what other planes are doing if talking in Spanish?
ATC frequently communicates in native language with their home pilots. You hear that in European countries as well, and I doubt Asia is different... It's just mandatory to be able to communicate clearly in English so that there is at least a common language.
Not good for safety if towers start talking in 'other' languages. I always thought English has won as international air language? That said, maybe it is because I am not native English either but people who natively speak Spanish or Hindi are the hardest to understand when they speak English.
Flying in Mexico always drove me absolutely nuts. SPEAK ENGLISH. I am all for people embracing their language but we speak English in aviation for safety. You may not be speaking to me, but I am listening to paint a picture. You may have accidentally just told someone to take the runway when I’m 200 feet from landing on that runway, or told someone they are on a course heading for me, and I need to know. It’s fine to say “hi, how are you” in your language but after that, English. Montreal can be just as bad with French.
Yes again US pilots demonstrate their unwillingness to use the proper terminology, even when dealing with controllers for whom English is probably not a first language. Memo to American, you're supposed to say "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" not "We are a MAYDAY aircraft."
The engine issue wasn't discussed on this recording. That made it blatantly obvious to me that they had declared their official mayday with the previous controller and announced it when they switched frequencies for clarity.
aawillma - Excellent reply!. I find it interesting so many have such little understanding of ATC, but they jump on the bandbox and preach as an"expert".
Really irritating that some of the com is in Spanish and some are in English. If I were a pilot I’d get really annoyed. Why not stick to one standardized language. Even in Norway this is done.
It's standard practice for regional pilots to talk in their own language with their local ATC. Maybe in Norway this is not the case, but pretty much everywhere else it is
Editing that new Mexican radar scope style was fun. Also thanks to that subscriber for sharing his sim reconstruction to show the aircraft and ECAM display. Good job pilots and ATC!
Awesome job! Thanks all for the inputs!
Hola
Eres tu hugo payno o que SCP eres? :)
I worked that flight and did not depart 5 hours later, the airplane was grounded for 2 days until the AOG pieces arrived.
False info on that, the rest of the video was great
Really appreciate the new radar map format and also the translations., this is why you are gaining more people coming to your channel because you have figured out how to stay ahead of the game and take the rest of us for the ride
Thank you much!!
Good job declaring the Mayday right away! Instantly clears up any ambiguity. Thanks for posting!
Air shuttle really did their best to increase the controller's workload despite the emergency on frequency.
Seems like they were unwilling to load a fix for holding that wasn't on their flight plan already. Then they ended up requesting vectors!
i mean he couldnt really make out what the controller was saying
Air Shuttle 5861, I have a number for you to call regarding your lack of current destination area charts and approach plates, advise when ready to copy!
Air Shuttle 5861 clearly was not prepared for that arrival.
That was what I was thinking, maybe thought was a big enough of a pain they would just let them land....
They probably didn't know how to load a hold into the FMS. Way to go guys!
5:15 Legends say the ASH5861 keeps trying to copy the approach waypoint
Fun fact is APDAV was indeed in the arrival path
@@VASAviation From what I can tell, the AVROD intersection is on the high altitude IFR charts, the intersection the controller was mentioning is on the approach plate. It's possible the pilot was referring to an old chart, or a navigation chart instead of the correct ILS approach plate.
@@MatthewWalster well he was not listening that well either. First time round she spelled APDAV fonetically and in spellingalfabet and then he comes back, can you spell that, second time he comes back AADAV after she spelled APDAV fonetically and in spellingalfabet and then she corrects APDAV Alpha Papa etc again.
Maybe he was too absorbed in his chart or he was not a nice guy, he failed on listening.
or they just didnt want to hold, instead continue the approach at slow speed
@@bertbergers9171 Nope. At 9:00 you can hear the controller give him the DME-3 approach, but he reads back DME-2 and the controller doesn't catch it. All of the waypoints he is referencing are on the DME-2 Approach, while the points she is giving him are on the DME-3. With her accent it can be quite hard for a native english speaker to pick everything up perfectly, I really can't blame him.
Air Shuttle had the wrong approach, if you take a look on the charts, they should be using the RNAV STAR 10 (SAMAR->APDAV->DULNO (IAF)) then use ILS 10 DME *THREE* approach (BUT instead they were following ILS 10 DME *TWO* approach). That's why they see the fix AVROD (IAF) (which is on the ILS 10 DME *TWO* chart)...09:00 they even read back the wrong approach...anyway...kudos to the controller and thanks for great vid always.
Thanks! I was wondering what was going on! I even noticed the controller was just about to ask them what star they were flying when she said "call you back in a minute"
I like how the American crew spoke clearly, confidently and direct about the services needed. I don't hear communications that clear on incidents in the states usually. It reminded me of the way British Airways handles emergency communication in the US.
Nicholas Kaiser probably spoke more clearly to try and minimize the language barrier.
Clearly, trying to be concise with a marginally English proficient ATC controller.
@@clarkgriswold-zr5sb Her English was fine. Americans need to learn how to cope with accents. They can't even understand other English L1 speakers half the time.
@@iatsd nah sorry but her English was crap. I am not native English and usually I understand a lot of accents but this was very hard to follow
@@computerjantje her english was good enough, clearly you haven't listened to french pilots/atc try to speak english lmao
The new radar map is impressive.
It is a 3D VIEW from flightradar24
@@RohitSharma-pr9lb Nope, it is not. It is the radar from IVAO Mexico
YOU'RE impressive.
Glad everything turned out safely! As a Private Pilot and ATC trainee it's always interesting to see how different scenarios affect both pilot and atc planning. I kept switching between thinking like the pilots and thinking like atc. I love aviation! Thanks for your videos.
Love the radar display! Kudos to the crew for making concise requests. Very strong work by the approach controller. She had her hands full!
The American pilot on the radio was cool as a cucumber!
WE always are.
American admits only the finest of the steely eyed missile men into their ranks👍
So many incidents, so few flights lately.
That's seems to be the case sadly.
I expect it to get worse as airlines slack on maintenance for cost saving, especially on poorly regulated countries.
@@danannnnnn those were my thoughts.
what was with that Air Shuttle flight 5861. Just being a pain poor ATC had to tell them everything 3 and 4 times, even spelled out that holding point, and then they turn around and ask her to spell it...omg...Not sure if just lazy or playing stupid so could land right anyways (understand the need to confirm but this was a whole new level). That ATC deserves a Great big KUDO's for being professional
that Air Shuttle 5861 would have lost it if they had to close that runway....LOL
Fix could have been inop, returning a “not found” when he plugged in the read back, leading him to believe that he was hearing wrong when in reality his equipment was just malfunctioning.
Americans don't deal well with accents, generally. I've seen them often have trouble with non-american L1 English speakers. I put it down to the country being so insular, poorly educated, and culturally constrained.
Jeez, that AS5861 Pilot needs more training or to retire. Failed to find two holding fixes. It’s not that hard people, when it’s spelled out for you!
Additionally, the controller offered to just let him hold at the 14 mile point on the course, eliminating the need to find a fix in the database. He really didn't want to hold.
What does this mean? I like to learn. Thank you!
Yep she spelled it out twice for him.
@@k.pacificnw02134 Basically, because AAL387 had an engine failure, they wanted to inspect the runway and the aircraft after landing. They needed ASH5861 to hold at one of the waypoints on their flightplan while they carried out this inspection. For some reason, the pilot on ASH5861 wasn't able to find the waypoint ATC requested, even after she spelled it out twice.
Yeah I've raised eyebrows why 5861 does not have maps to find a waypoint if it's not on flight plan...
Would they completely lost if something goes different?
ASH5861, are those guys VATSIM pilots??? I mean, come on, they are unable to find the IAF for the approach that they are expecting, or even just to put in a waypoint into their FMC and hold there as instructed... I hear that phrase "we dont have that in our flight plan" almost every session when I am controlling on VATSIM, but never really heard that in real life.
And doing holding paterns 14 DME out shouldn't be a problem either for a seasoned pilot, either you do them by hand or program that into the FMC, the are far enough out and have enough time to do that.
That one pilot really unnecessary congested the frequency with that while an emergency is in progress and put unnecessary workload on the controller, not that she was incapable or anything like that, it's just not helping, especially if the emergency aircraft's status would have worsened all of the sudden.
Yeah, but... ATC wasn't really the most helpful as well. I could only understand her "Papa" because it was spelled out on screen. From verbal only, this could be any of a number of words. I'm normally very lenient when it comes to aviation english - I myself am not a native speaker and anyone would surely identify my heavy german accent right off the bat. But there is some line you just can't go below. And that line is certainly reached if your accent is so heavy that it gets difficult to understand the NATO phonetic alphabet. This is *so basic* to international air travel that it is unacceptable to not pronounce them in a clear and concise manner.
[Edit: To be clear - the pilot should've been able to find it regardless. At the latest when she told him to hold over the "initial approach fix for your planned approach". That is a little unorthodox, because you rarely hold over an approach fix like that, but it's certainly easy to find on your charts and computer if you did the prep correctly.]
[Edit2: Two other planes had to ask for clarification as well, not being able to give immediate readback, indicating that they didn't understand her well, either.]
Yeah, I thought this was more interesting than the mayday ac. Sounded lazy to me.
Marcel bro, shut up.....
You're sitting there at your computer whilst reading subtitles, you have NO idea the quality of the audio that the pilots heard.
You think the pilot is unprofessional but there you have an ICAO controller issuing instructions by spelling out words in non-phonetics?
I gave high props to the crew for simply asking for vectors in the end, great airmanship.
@@cohen200 Oh wow, I didn't even consider this. But you're right.. She spelled them with just the letters and only switched to NATO when he couldn't understand. That's bad procedure on top of the lack in language proficiency...
@@cohen200 Well actually, in the first call she said direct APDEV, without spelling.
After the pilot asked for her to say it again, she spelled it out both in ICAO/NATO phonetics and normal spelling. Yes the normal spelling is weird, but even looking away from the subtitles, I can understand her (and I'm a non native speaker).
Nevertheless, the crew should have recognized the waypoint, because they probably briefed their approach, where things like IAF, FAF/FAP should come up.
Regarding radio clarity I can say, that most of the time what the pilots hear is way better what we are hearing in those videos, because the radio scanners that are used for these recordings usually have way less powerful antenntas that those comms in an airplane. Also the scanner is at appx. ground level where buildings/trees/hills could weaken the signal.
Great video! The map, the aircraft reconstruction, the ATC communications 👌 thanks!
Thank you
Is it possible to get the Air India IX-1344 crash radio communication?
I knew you would do it, thank you!! Just one thing, the aircraft didn’t depart 5 hours later, it had to stay in Guadalajara for at least 2 days. ¡Buen video como siempre y gracias!
Air Shuttle (Mesa Airlines) sounds pretty incompetent on basic holding instructions. This is all basic stuff you are prepared for don't rely on ATC to hold your pony hand.
English international language of Aviation... MANY different accents
Yes!
Thanks for the amazing content man keep it up ! (If you ever need help to translate communications to French I’m a native Canadian speaker from Montreal so hit me up)
I heard that in live on LIVEATC was cool
This is amazing thank you and all that helped bring the maps
Spanish speaking ATC during emergency: cool, calm, good English with a slight accent
American native speaking ATC at JFK during normal operations: Cletolan.
Haha true ! I remember that video ! The ATC had such a strong accent it kept sounding cletolan instead of clear to land !
Professional Pilot.Good job.
Great to hear US pilots using correct R/T for a change, very impressive.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought English was the standard language for all pilots and ATC?
Probably not if they are local regional flights.
lightravenn well this was an American Airlines flight bound for Dallas so that can’t be right
@@quentinbonner5231 im talking about some chatter in spanish from some flights with the atc.
Last time I was this early to one of your videos, Captain Maggie was still in kindergarten
@Trek001, I've grown since then...
@@maggierezac5820 I didn't mean you... Unless you've changed your surname
@@Trek001 Spoiler... dammit! Can't an old lady 'dream' of being 17 and named Captain Maggie Taraska?
Damn those meddling kids! 😊☮✌
@@maggierezac5820 Sorry... But there can only be one true Captain Maggie - a pilot so great she simply intimidates aircraft by just looking at them
@@Trek001 I am a mom. 3 kids in 17 months. Intimidation is my Jam!
Okay, yes, she did successfully land a plane without a front wheel last year?
The first time I read the reference, I did have to do the Google, I have no shame.
Stay safe and Stay sane! Peace!
I’m troubled about the cause of the engine failure. I know you can’t run down every bit of info for us, Victor, I really am thankful for all the work you DO do for us in these awesome presentations, and it shows.
But I’m still curious!😁 Wonder what happened to that engine? Any warnings, no matter how seemingly mundane, in previous flight(s) that day (if any)? I’m just curious about the backstories to these hiccups in flight.
Could this be another issue with a plane post storage?
Looking through the plane history it was never in storage by the looks of it. Flew almost every single day between March and the date of the accident
Thomas Mortimore - Are you discussing the same aircraft?
Can you do a video about yesterday’s Air India express crash IX 1344
Hello, I have a little question: Do you have acess to ATC all around the world? Because LiveATC only shows us a few countries but I have found videos on your channel that show also non-LiveATC-airports
Their #2 took a #2.
"One eleven thousand" 😂
Great video as always. Isn’t all communications supposed to be in English? Or am I missing something here?
There is always one. No. English is required as the international language that all international pilots must speak, but Spanish pilots speak Spanish in Spanish countries, ditto French, Russian, Italian etc.
jjaus very interesting. I noticed this as well here in Quebec Canada when the pilots speak French. I thought it was important for safety to have all pilots aware of what is going on in their frequency and if they do not speak the local language they will not be fully aware.
@@riversquash Even if everyone is speaking English, I am not sure how aware pilots would be of the big picture. They do have TCAS, but unless I am not up to date, it just shows dots and whether the a/c is descending and its altitude above or below. Tracon and en route radar shows every a/c and all information.
Plane was designated as American 387, not 319.
Standard Emergency Return. Air Shuttle as usual causing problems.
Just a quick Observation - When there is a Emergency Aircraft situation, shouldn't there be 1 language spoken until the situation is resolved??
I realize that it was Mexico, but having Spanish mixed with English could cause confusion in the emergency aircraft cockpit with communications.
It was just a thought,
I thought English was the international standard, at least thats what I recall
English is the ICAO standard for international communication. International pilots and controllers must be proficient in aviation English. The controller properly communicated with the American flight in English at all times. Spanish is an ICAO recognized language for local and regional communications. Not sure why having Spanish spoken on frequency would affect the emergency aircraft. While working the emergency aircraft crew would be focused only on communication directed to them in English.
Whats up with these airbuses these days? I just keep flying my Mooney. LOL
What’s up with these 737’s overrunning runways these days?
It's not Airbus's fault. These new efficient low pollution jet engines from all the manufacturers are giving every operator frustrations. GE, RR, PW, are all making aircraft operators frustrated with lower than expected reliability and fuel efficiency.
@@tomstravels520 pilot error moron
Surprised to hear a Korean flight climbing at Guadalajara and the 3-digit number isn't typical of cargo flights. KAL278 is Guadalajara-Vancouver-Seoul. Seems like a very odd passenger route.
It was cargo I think
Back in the day, Varig (Brasil) used to operate Copenhagen to London Heathrow to Rio de Janeiro. It was worth hopping the CPH LHR leg as a change from the BA or SAS flights, 1st class where they would serve a snack plus champagne to your giant armchair seat. (Before the days of lay flat beds). OK so only 1.5 hour flight but very comfortable!
9:44 Oh, yes... I see them landing.
I hope you post the Indian flight that crashed this week
Thanks
Why did the approach controller terminate radar services when handing AA387 off to tower? Without radar service, the aircraft is now VFR, and no longer under IFR control?
That is incorrect. IFR is possible without radar coverage with bigger separation, that is how it works over the oceans for example. Either tower has no radar and uses binoculars exclusively while only approach has radar or it was inoperative or the controller just misspeaks out of bad habit (most likely)
that makes more sense. I guess I’m so used to hearing “radar services terminated, squawk VFR” that I didn’t understand what “radar services terminated” by itself meant in an IFR context.
Rick Hornsby - Good question, Rick. From what we have seen and heard, 1. The emergency aircraft was on IFR flight plan. The pilot never cancelled IFR. If he had, then the radar service terminated, maintain VFR, etc., would be appropriate. 2. The emergency aircraft was never cleared for the ILS approach, why not? When approach control service is being provided, the aircraft is vectored to the final, cleared for approach and transferred to tower control at a specified point. The aircraft is under IFR rules until he lands. In a Radar facility, we are trained to provide separation using radar and we non-radar procedures. Non-radar, or procedural, was in use before radar came into usage. Separation, is provided based on time, speed and altitude. A very intense method, and it gets the job done, a bit slower but safely.
Felix Jankowski - Felix, you are talking about two different scenarios. One, is en-route/oceanic traffic, the other is Terminal approach control. It is well known radar coverage is not present over the oceans, so Procedural separation is provided, based on time, speed and altitude. In the Terminal environment, such as here, radar is available. The aircraft was IFR, never cancelled it, it is still IFR until landing. Reason for terminating radar service, would be if radar contact cannot be maintained, due to ground equipment restrictions. In some facilities, the radar is right up there in the tower cab. some do not have it at all. The use of binoculars is not a tool for applying separation, mostly used to locate ground objects or the occasional aircraft in the air.
David Spaulding - Radar, is an expensive bit of equipment. Before funds are allocated, studies are made to justify it. Usually, another facility can provide the approach control service, wether there is a tower or not. DME arcs, came into popularity in the early '70s, nothing new about them, and IFR, simply means you are complying with Instrument Flight Rules, no more, no less.
There was a recent crash of air india (IX 1344)
Dubai-Calicut airport.
Theoretical question: If there was no such thing as humans on the ground to bother with noise, would airplanes fly a lot lower? Thanks!
Planes don't fly high to avoid noise
no their engines are build to be efficient had higher altitude, also less drag due to thinner air and the higher you get, you will find more powerfull winds to give you a boost to your destination. (America to Europe (Jetstream) will be a different route then vv due to windpaterns)
Recently there was an air India Express plane crash in Kozhikode , India. If possible could you find ATC communication for that🙏
You mean Air India Express
@@tomstravels520 Thanks for correcting
You won't find me trolling. I love Boeing and Airbus planes. My favorites are the 747 and A380 plus the 737 and the a320s . Both companies planes has issues.
I echo the others. Air Shuttle 5861 need to hit the simulator and flight school. I'm tempted to send this link to the company. The arrogance!
Please we need a video for IX 1344 crash in Calicut, India.
No puedo esperar ver las reconctrucciones en el nuevo MFS 2020
Lo estamos deseando
Amazing
I thought all ATC comms were in English only.
What does a “high speed departure” mean?
Aircraft on a standard departure might have a published speed restriction (& generally below 10,000FT aircraft are restricted to 250 knots or less), the ATC was advising the crew that they could accelerate earlier if they wished.
sethalapod Thank you!
To add to Sethalapod's response, the departing Korean plane was 'heavy'. Heavy planes on departure can have a very small window between stall speed and the 250kt speed restriction under 10Kft. Some standard departures have published speed restrictions that may fall below a heavy aircraft's stall speed and maneuverability speed. Pilots of 'heavy' designated flights often request high speed departures (while copying IFR clearance from delivery, from the tower, or from departure control - earlier is better for planning) so they don't have to operate in such a narrow speed corridor, thereby increasing safety margins.
They fly great with one engine. Very safe.
Unless it’s a fuel problem that may eventually show up in the second engine.
I was always led to believe everyone had to speak English. Obviously not the case. Would make sense if everyone was on the same page though.
That Airshuttle... what's up with that.... no maps?
It's Mesa Airlines, the crappiest regional airline in the USA. They literally hire anybody that either couldn't get on with any other airlines or failed out of other airline training programs.
Can you do one on the plane crash in India?
Jajajaja hello from Guadalajara
Hola amigo!
Why was some of the transmissions in another language than English?
I’d like to know as well. I thought all communication must be in English
Josh 104 - Because they can.
Joseph Huntley same
Ruben Villanueva I thought all transmissions must be in English no?
Josh 104 - Please, research ICAO Doc 4444 ATS, This matter has come up on this site many times before, and the kind people have explained it.
Such amateurs. Czech Smartwings pilot would just ignore it and continue to original destination 😂😂😂
shouldn't mayday be said 3 times?
I'm just guessing from the way they said it. It sounds like it had already been declared, but they had just changed frequencies and wanted to remind them.
ok this may be possible
Bro make on 1344AI
Wow I like the added animation/new map. Of course the engine failure happened to an AA jet..... most of those planes are old as hell and not well maintained.
Can someone explain “high speed departure” please?
I believe it excuses them from the 250kts under 10k feet rule. Sometimes very big/heavy aircraft need to fly faster than 250kts to fly "clean" - put away the drag inducing flaps. In order to not climb inefficiently dragging flaps at 250kts, they can climb at say 270kts under 10k and be able to clean up the aircraft.
Evan747 Thank you
FifthElement Gaming If you had actually done that yourself you would have found nothing but references to high speed train departure schedules and a PDF explaining what V1, V2 and Vmu are in the first 10 pages. And an answer that may or may not have been true. That’s why I asked here. Thank you for taking the precious time out of your schedule full of undoubtedly critical stuff to be thoroughly unhelpful though, I’m touched.
Heavies on departure (thus full of fuel) can have a pretty high stall speed, it's safer to be able to climb above 250 knots indicated.
SoupFork simple answer is they are getting permission to break a speed limit.
do AI1344?
Oh we have a emergency aircraft inbound,
lets have a spelling contest insteed and lets all talk in different languages ...
Airshuttle is deaf
Why is this a Mayday and not a Pan-Pan? The plane is flyable with one engine right?
Engine failure on a twin is a Mayday for me
You don’t know why one engine failed. It could be something that will affect the other engine too. Then you’ll be a very expensive and very inefficient glider...
Mayday by definition is only required if the aircraft is in imminent danger. An engine failure at FL230 can be well controlled for a normal ops landing return. Pan was appropriate given the circumstances.
David Spaulding I think you’ll continue to have a hard time on UA-cam if you’re firing up over someone asking a question/exercising their freedom of speech
David Spaulding common sense would suggest you were irritated when commenting ‘who cares’ and calling someone out for a question but sure let’s play oblivious.
Is it me, or do emergencies seem to happen more frequently these days? It's as if the aircraft aren't getting proper maintenance because of less frequent flying or something.
Waiting for the Airbus trolls to show up.
What are they supposed to say?
LOL
@M _ Boeing Boys, LOL
So is there no longer a requirement to speak English when talking to ATC? How are English speaking pilots supposed to know what other planes are doing if talking in Spanish?
Spanish is approved
ATC frequently communicates in native language with their home pilots. You hear that in European countries as well, and I doubt Asia is different... It's just mandatory to be able to communicate clearly in English so that there is at least a common language.
Yeah, Spanish should not be used. Stick to one language is always best to avoid any confusion - that’s my opinion anyway.
Aeternus Doleo the whole point of using one language is so it helps with situational awareness because then you understand what is going on around you
@@tomstravels520 regulations allow for local language on ATC. And this is done that way all over the world. Even in French Canada.
That's an old piece of crap Frontier aircraft.Used to have a Coyote on the tail.
Not good for safety if towers start talking in 'other' languages. I always thought English has won as international air language? That said, maybe it is because I am not native English either but people who natively speak Spanish or Hindi are the hardest to understand when they speak English.
ICAO has set English proficiency standards for international pilots and controllers.
Flying in Mexico always drove me absolutely nuts. SPEAK ENGLISH. I am all for people embracing their language but we speak English in aviation for safety. You may not be speaking to me, but I am listening to paint a picture. You may have accidentally just told someone to take the runway when I’m 200 feet from landing on that runway, or told someone they are on a course heading for me, and I need to know. It’s fine to say “hi, how are you” in your language but after that, English. Montreal can be just as bad with French.
Airbus?, Again!
Best planes of the world
Engine manufacturers again.
I’m sorry do airbus make/maintain the engines?
CFM 56 Again. There were engine failures on Boeings too
What kind of shitty receiver are you using? Garbled, distorted, crappy audio.
Why is tower allowed to speak Spanish? I thought it was only English.
Damn that ATC’s English is hard to understand.
You must be American
Yes again US pilots demonstrate their unwillingness to use the proper terminology, even when dealing with controllers for whom English is probably not a first language. Memo to American, you're supposed to say "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" not "We are a MAYDAY aircraft."
The engine issue wasn't discussed on this recording. That made it blatantly obvious to me that they had declared their official mayday with the previous controller and announced it when they switched frequencies for clarity.
aawillma - Excellent reply!. I find it interesting so many have such little understanding of ATC, but they jump on the bandbox and preach as an"expert".
It’s all Greek to me
Meg Punt - Well, ask some questions, and be enlightened!
Really irritating that some of the com is in Spanish and some are in English. If I were a pilot I’d get really annoyed. Why not stick to one standardized language. Even in Norway this is done.
Well, good thing you're not a pilot then
Josh Howell same to you, dude. Same to you. :)
It's standard practice for regional pilots to talk in their own language with their local ATC. Maybe in Norway this is not the case, but pretty much everywhere else it is
Damn I’m never 1st