Omg ROFL I was just thinking how my brain is only working now because I should be asleep and all my Adderall is finally activating my brain and helping my APD?
Please take the gift back. I’ll gladly not live this way with emotions that bring me physical pain and a lifetime of not being understood in every relationship I’ve ever had. The lack of working memory. Forgetting things constantly, hyper fixating on the wrong things or person. Take it, all of it.
Feels like a curse as soon as I’m obligated to do something. Feels like a gift when I have no pressure to deliver anything or live up to something. My mind goes to places normal people don’t reach, it’s enjoyable in a creative environment
Some of us by nature are more positive about our ADHD, and I think it’s down to personality traits. I’ve had tremendous struggle because I was undiagnosed. But I tend to see the glass half full and naturally push forward through adversity. It’s just in my wiring. I think Ned Hallowell and others have a similar bent. I’m glad we are all different because we need the Russell Barkleys to ground us and consider the negatives, too.
I believe that there is research in health psychology which describes how presenting examples of highly successful people with diseases (e.g., type 1 diabetes)can lead to a casual approach to management in others - rather than improving outcomes! So not achieving the goal of trying to inspire people that type-1 is not a barrier…. It is a barrier and requires management AND some people do incredible things… which likely took a lot of work, a lot of resource and a bit of LUCK too. As usual a balanced and reasoned argument… lovely to have this type of content on UA-cam! Thank you!
I also feel like people mistake some traits of ADHD for actual ADHD. Many of my friends are entrepreneurs, creatives, etc and we are alike in 80% of our traits, but they don’t have the dysfunction. They have the creative benefits that come from a somewhat loose attention span but are able to back it up with exceptional executive function on the other hand. I feel like this when medication works. I think many modern podcasts and “experts” are confusing such exceptional people as having ADHD because they’re not distinguishing based on executive function.
I'm not sure they are confusing...many of them sell a product that is not accessible to typical ADHDers, so they market to either high-functioning ADHDers (for which is truly only going to be a very small number) or those who simply like to identify with ADHD (as you say have some traits but not clinical dx....but these are the people with money to spend so let's keep feeding them the idea they have ADHD and that their diagnosis is valid)
Let me also clarify because I recognise the term high functioning ADHDer sounds absurd...refering to the few who have overcome the odds based off other gifts they have and supports they've received and become "successful" in one area of their life, usually career, but exhibit impairments in all the other domai a of life.
I’ve always thought that saying ADHD is a gift is almost gaslighting. For me, it’s a curse, a complete nightmare that is trying to destroy my life. The amount of time and money for therapy, doctor visits, the side effects of stimulants and other medications, trying to get accommodations, figuring out ways to compensate and work with instead of against my brain, is exhausting. It’s an hour-to-hour struggle. So the idea that it’s a gift, to me that is not only a sick joke, it’s adding deep insult to injury to sweep the misery away and try to say it’s a gift. I wouldn’t wish this gift on my worst enemy.
A curse can transform into its own and unique gift. I think that is the case for quite some people with ADHD, if you're able to overcome you can come out stronger (or at least with a new perspective) than before. And I think that should be celebrated. I therefore think that some people with ADHD are more equipped and suited to doing certain things, maybe even call it excellence. However, I don't think even for the ADHDers excelling it does not bring more positive than negative. Children with ADHD require more parental investment than neurotypical children to flourish. And that is simply not always possible, let alone plausible. However, when they are given what they need, they can bring something unique and special to all of us. A well-functioning diverse society is stronger than a homogeneous one.
Hi Dr. Barkley, in past lectures you've made a strong distinction between verbal working memory and non-verbal working memory. This is extremely helpful to me as I feel my verbal working memory is significantly impaired, but my non-verbal working memory is less so. I often struggle to recall common words during conversation. I wonder if you would consider doing a lecture specifically on verbal working memory? Inclusive of not only deficits in language comprehension but also language production. I know there has been at least a small amount of research on the latter, and I would really like to understand better. Thank you again for your lifetime of work and this youtube channel.
Thank you for sharing, this is very interesting. From my personal experience living with someone who has ADHD, I try to avoid using emotionally charged terms like "gift" or "curse". However, it's true that focusing solely on ADHD as an impairment can sometimes make the person feel trapped. It can be challenging to balance the understanding that ADHD is indeed an impairment, while also recognizing that you can live with it and even lead a successful life, whatever "success" means for you. I really value your perspective on ADHD, particularly how it can interact with other traits in ways that sometimes help individuals achieve certain goals, even as it creates difficulties in other areas. Your insights have been very helpful for me in navigating my relationship with someone who has ADHD, especially in practical terms. I truly appreciate the time and effort you’ve put into these lectures.
I completely agree with you that saying ADHD is a gift isn’t helpful because when I was in school telling my tutor I was having a difficult time comprehending the material because of my ADHD, she would reply “Your ADHD isn’t that bad!” Long story short after one semester I was dismissed from said school due to poor grades. I sit here constantly telling myself if my cries for help were taken more seriously I wouldn’t have been dismissed or even if I was at least I would have felt better in knowing that everything was done for me and not much more could have.
This series is some of your best youtube work. I do agree that the combo of other gifts with ADHD can lead to superior outcomes with concommitant disability. E.g. IQ. For example, picking up the high school physics book and reading it out of boredom... I was better than my peers at physics. This wasn't prescribed... other classmates might think "Who does that?" At the same time, 4 years of incompleted tax returns, not writing thank you correspondence, not opening emails, letters... curse! No one tells me to venture down rabbit holes, but often times they turn out useful, maybe not immediately. ADHD with other gifts is like having some lopsided D&D character with both outsize gifts and flaws. It's like having a powerful sword (the hyperfocus and knowledge from various rabbit holes one has hyperfocused on) with a low chance to hit, and a good chance of hitting other objects not aimed at. ADHD treatment is about reducing the downsides of the condition. If we understand people as sets of attributes we understand it is less about perfection and more about the right tool for the job, and using those tools effectively. But... the downsides can be debilitating.
Dear Russ, I hope you have time for a Q&A video sometime in the future. Some commentators here put out really interesting views and questions, and science is all about communication.
Thanks a lot for this awesome series of video! I do agree with you, while I understand why someone would portray this condition as some kind of gift, and while it may be true for very specific conditions, I think it causes more harm than good by misguiding people to think they are gifted. It also feeds the narrative of people that earn money from that, often with honest intentions, while ADHDers don't try to treat their condition. Why should I use treatment for a gift ? The slippery slope I see is that it would, in the worst cases, even promote misbehaviours, and reduce them as just personal quirks, preserving in the process the ego of people that would actually need help and might harm themselves and their loved ones. I see a similar pattern with giftedness and alleged deficiencies. A lot of therapists put high IQ alongside ADHD, autism or personality disorders as if it was some kind of target audience they want to treat. Except it's not a condition. Gifted people perform better in life on average, yet you will find a lot of blogs, videos and therapists online saying those patients suffer because of their giftedness. I don't know about the english-speaking world, but in french medias you come across people calling themselves "zebras". The term has been created and used by people who actively want to make it some kind of disorder. By choosing an easy scapegoat, it also casts a shadow on the real origin of the suffering they do have. It's disheartening to know so many people can't get appropriate help because of that..
Adaptation can be the gift, but it’s a curse overall. Ignored it for the past decade, left myself nothing but regret and damage to self esteem after being fired yet again and dealing with the depression that accompanies it. “If only he applied himself” “Why haven’t you saved any money?” “Why haven’t you been applying for jobs” “My co-worker has adhd and is wildly successful, why aren’t you”
Also, seeing it as a gift does not even always make me feel better. I like some aspects of my adhd, and reminding myself of the times my life has been impacted positively by it helps balance out the many ways in which I fall short of societal expectations because of it. So in that sense, viewing it as a gift in some areas (of my life, specifically) helps me feel better, and gives me the strength to get through a bad day. But all this talk about how incredibly entrepreneurial people with adhd supposedly are also makes me feel worse about never having wanted to start a company, and even being overwhelmed at all the steps (of admin work) that would probably go into that. How incredibly talented and creative adhd supposedly makes you, and I just think of all my unfinished paintings, that were just a fun time back then, but through this lease feel like a failure of making something out of my gift, The great athletes, and I can’t even get myself to stick with one workout routine for more than a few weeks. It’s just more random expectations to fall short of, and that doesn’t feel great in the long run.
Thank you Dr Barkley! I personally do not view ADHD as a super power of any kind. Rather a limp that I “through sheer determination and grit” got through life this far undiagnosed. I have high IQ and made it into the medical profession. But I am acutely aware of my shortcomings and struggles.- all attributed to ADHD. They have hindered my progress as a professional, a wife and a mother. ADHD has destroyed my family and seeks to destroy mine at every turn. It is no super power.
@russellbarkleyphd2023 Dr. Barkley, You should considering doing live streaming videos here. Maybe even a weekly live stream where you lecture and do some Q&A. I applaud you sir for your 'Downsides of Viewing ADHD as a Gift' segment of the video. This 'ADHD is a superpower' mythology that seems to be ubiquitous nowadays angers me to no end. It's bad enough that essentially nobody takes ADHD seriously as it is. The last 3 bullets points made me realize that this nonsense is potentially even more destructive than I realized. Quoting you, it's 'worse than wrong'. 😦
Very real, I ignored my adhd for a decade and looking back, I by my very nature set myself up for failure. I didn’t do anything for tomorrow me, I didn’t care, and now I’m left holding the bag, dealing with job loss, lack of career direction or growth, and in worse health. These are borderline passive common issues, and when propped up with societal expectations… “You should have thought of saving your money” “You should have gone to school and stuck with a career” “Where are my grandchildren” “Just try harder” “If only he applied himself” “Stop playing video games all day, it’s a waste of time” “Stop being a lazy loser” “Why is your credit score so low” “When I was your age…” One day you wake up and your 30 with no life direction, having been fired yet again, living in poverty, looking back at the damage and lack of care for the future as you start to face the consequences.
When they study a bunch of college students and find that wow, most ADHD students are gifted, the conclusion shouldn't be that ADHD kids are more likely to be gifted. A more probable explanation is that if you have ADHD, you need to be gifted to even get into college...
In true adhd fashion I was half way through a comment about benefits from other traits interacting with adhd when you changed slide and started talking about it. 😂 This mini series has been fascinating, thank you.
I do like Dr Hallowell but I do agree with you - this is by no means awesome for me. I see nothing positive about digging around in the wheelie bin at 2am because I inadvertently threw away my medication and then ending up hysterically crying about being a useless and ineffective person for an hour. True story.
The problem with this discussion is semantic. ADHD, as defined, is not a set of genetic traits or attributes but a combination of those with environmental factors that results in impairment. It's tautological, ADHD as defined excludes anyone who is significantly benefiting from the genetic traits common to it. So, any argument using studies of ADHD patients to refute the theory that the genetic traits associated with it can be beneficial are flawed by sampling bias. When people talk about the "benefits of ADHD", they are colloquially talking about the benefits of whatever physiological distinction leads many to an ADHD diagnoses, whereas ADHD research deliberately focuses on those whose lives have been negatively impacted. They're not talking about the same thing.
For me it's the messaging that gets my back up, rather then the underlying concepts that Dr Hallowell is talking about. The idea that some of my brain processes that impair me could be managed and harnessed to improve my life in other ways isn't out there. I've got the brain I've got, and while medication helps, no amount of swimming against the stream is going to change the flow of the river. But I find the boundless optimism rather invalidating. That said, I'm not sure I agree if someone is not impaired by their ADHD after extensive management of their life to achieve that, that it's sensible to say they no longer have the disorder. Perhaps it would be better to see these things as similar to aids like glasses - they do not erase the impairment.
How do individual or group differences among people with ADHD get researched and compared? I wondered if that ever happened but would be too big a study. And does positive psychology really help people with ADHD when receiving therapy? Has technology or modern society also lead people without ADHD lead to prefer simple answers so that they don't differentiate the gift or curse debate and take them as generalization?
In extreme brevity I wish address so many of the topics: - averaging: I think it is about time do some serious data mining; coming from computer science I _feel_ like ADHD and autism struggles from categories that are too broad with a huge chance of denial both by society and by the affected individual ("but you don't look autistic!"); there might coherent subtypes with very particular subsets of comorbidities - is it talent? Sport is a bad example, where you have to do the same thing over and over. I think where the disruption shines is in creative industries, where the variety of ideas and special interests can make or break the product. For example the Alien franchise benefitted a ton from the art of HR Giger, which is a thing that comes from narrow, special interests, unheard of in neurotypicals. - on special interests and hyperfocus: the question is that can you have those without autism or ADHD with that level? - on America and Australia: there's a very specific "comorbidity" of being a citizen of an ex-British colony to both think the entire world should be like them and at the same time thinking they are special. Nope these are just nations just like the others. This deficit certainly, and I believe measurably, shows up when the expats of these countries fail to fit in their chosen new cultures (e.g. not learning the language, or moving to Mexico and complaining about the loud music there...).
I have seen a doco on Bipolar Disorder where most said they would not choose to be cured if they could because the good times outweighed the bad. The manic phase may be seen as a gift?
I think the presentation of both 1) ADHD x gift = superpower and 2) accepting that it is a disorder is a good way to distill it. It is well known that the average public does not handle scientific results, but if there is agreement, they will go along with it. Making those two fight against eachother seems pointless in the face of such strong evidence for BOTH.
@@nowie4007 I did not say such thing. To clarify, the modulation of ADHD on a gifted person produces something unique and that can have a positive effect, even if it is negative on the average.
@@u_j134sThis might be true in some cases. In such cases, they most likely had the crazy amount of support and resources from the start. And/or their set of symptoms + comorbidities are not so impairing that they prevent effective use of gifts.
Being gifted is a super power on its own. By definition such a person is in the top few percentage of the population in some capacity, regardless of what disorders they might also have.
@@nowie4007 Being gifted with ADHD is like having a car with a powerful engine with brakes that don't work reliably, a transmission that slips sometimes, and a steering wheel with so much play in it that you can turn the wheel and count to two and then the car starts turning. The powerful engine is the giftedness. The crappy brakes, transmission, and steering are the ADHD. Those same crappy brakes, transmission, and steering don't allow you to effectively utilize all the power of the engine, just as ADHD doesn't allow you to effectively utilize your giftedness.
The other flip side of the coin: if ADHD is a superpower, then those of us that struggle with everyday tasks due to executive function, short term memory, etc. must just be uniquely stupid and unlucky 😅
I would love you to do a video on what the research says about people with ADHD and high IQs. Points of interest could be, do they tend to get diagnosed later than those with average IQs or is that just speculation? Are their symptoms less impairing or are they better at coping with them? On average at what age or period do they start struggling significantly if any? Does the potential lack of early support lead to worse outcomes than people than ADHD who have average IQs who are treated earlier? Or does the high IQ group still have similar or better outcomes? What are the outcomes of high IQ ADHDers compared to their neurotypical counterparts with similar cognitive profiles? If you could think of anything else that might be interesting that would be great. The emphasis of the video should be on what the research says rather than people’s hypotheses which may not be reflective of reality.
Another question is, for those who have high IQs who are diagnosed in childhood, is it because their ADHD is more severe? Or because they have a comorbid learning disability that presents itself and causes a closer look leading to an ADHD diagnosis that otherwise wouldn't have happened? What about those who are diagnosed with ADHD during the time when it was thought that one would outgrow it, leading to such things as their ADHD going untreated during high school (as happened to me)?
I’ve seen his video about IQ and ADHD, I’m asking him to specifically do a video about the intersection of high IQ and ADHD. A lot of ADHD as one would expect is based on the average. It would be interesting to see the effects of ADHD on this particular subgroup
Ooo I really like your question about whether those with high IQ and ADHD who were diagnosed as kids have potentially more severe presentations and/or a comorbid disorder. Yes it would be great to see what the literature says about that.
@@vans4lyf2013 I think too that the year of diagnosis also makes a difference, as the rates of diagnosis went up over time. I was diagnosed in 1984 at age 7, and while I was unable to find any data on the prevalence of diagnosed ADHD in the school age population at that time, I did find a paper from Oct 1985 which stated that 1% to 2% of school age children in the USA were on medication for ADHD. These days that's higher, something like 10% I believe. So assuming that the incidence of ADHD has remained the same though the years, the conclusion I come to is that only the more severe cases were being treated in 1984, compared to today. (I am considering a case of ADHD with a comorbid condition like learning disability as more severe).
This is why I pray and hope SOMETHING permanent in the form of a cure/treatment happens one day. It gives people the option to keep or reject their "gift". I never saw mine as a gift but a fucking curse. I PRAY AI will help us move AWAY from symptom management/lifelong treatments to actual disease/disorder elimination. It must be possible down the line to design and reshape your brain's neural system in adulthood. It simply must.
Halle-freaking-lujah. Russ you just stole all these thoughts from my head. This 4 part series was brilliant!!!! As a public health professional, an individual with ADHD and a parent to children with ADHD I couldn't agree more with all of this. The criticism you receive over taking the population approach is mirrored in all public health issues. The minds of folks these days is far too black and white. I enjoy the works of both you and Hallowell but it must be put into context as you so eloquently did. You are right 💯 times in this video. And yes, I must admit the recent release of a certain book you hinted at has been very off-putting ... From a family I used to enjoy very much watching the videos they produced, as a person deeply impacted by the intergenerational legacy of ADHD myself, I just find the whole thing woefully irresponsible. I admittedly have not read the book so perhaps I'll be proven wrong on my assumptions of the portrayal, but I have listened to podcasts of them being interviewed about the book and do also question myself if a person can have ADHD if life has just been so awesome for them. Let's rephrase: ADHD can be awesome but it mostly sucks. Or better yet: I can be awesome and have ADHD but that's because I work really hard every day to overcome the suck, and have been blessed with privileges and supports many don't have, and all that really sucks.
The same with Autism. Not a gift. Hindrance from hell. Having to prove your disability because "she has a boyfriend" she can't be Autistic. I hope you will do a video on the Co occurrence of ADHD and Autism
I have no doubt that my ADHD has helped me when writing music, but just because I jump from one thing to another, and by accident it happens to be brilliant. But the downside… Credit cards are a weapon of mass destruction in my hands, I might get letters from the tax office that say “important” and “read them later”. “At last I leave right on time… hold on… Where are my keys?” I know how to act on every occasion, but I just won’t. I have a significant high IQ. But my Working Memory hovers around 80 (at least the last time I took a test a year ago )scheduled for 9am, feeling tired, unrested and lazy, so when I had to say sequences of numbers backwards I’d give up most of times because the effort I had to put into it was not worth it. After all it was just a test I payed for, but I was looking forwards to get done and have lunch with a friend. ADHD has screwed so many things. I got the Japanese cops with search warrants at home because I was stupid enough to hang around someone that I suspected was using drugs. I should have stopped being around that idiot when I noticed something weird, but I kept leaving it for “later”. I’ve been living in Japan for 25 years now and anything related to drugs is jail and deportation for life for foreigners. And I have a beautiful daughter and a beautiful wife. And I almost lost it because of this. Thank God I don’t do drugs, had I tested positive I wouldn’t be writing this comment here… So what a gift.
The obsession about IQ or giftedness should be addressed and stopped. Those can be celebrated and nurtured outside the medical boundaries but not to confuse with the aspects that are considered as disorders.
You disagreed with the suggestion that the greater prevalence of ADHD in the USA and Australia was possibly due to a greater proportion of settlers having a criminal history. In disagreement, you noted that ADHD is found all around the world. But, that does not contradict the statement about prevalence. Why not address that directly by either citing other countries with similarly high rates of ADHD, or countries with similar criminal backgrounds with low rates?
Double curse if you have it and live with someone who also has it😱 No one would remember who put what where and when, "It's you!" "NO, I've NEVER even seen that thing "
@@mdp_lady The problem is that ADHD often comes with problems like learning disabilities and DCD (developmental coordination disorder) that aren't 100% treatable. Those aren't ADHD? Well, for me, they came together.
Most of what Dr Barkley says is great. But his whole focus on very traditional behaviour management has always irked me. I read his parent book but it was specifically all the techniques that made the behaviour of my chidm worse. Traditional structured, consequence and positive reinforcement parenting made.my Audhd child worse. Amd the more o did it the worse the behaviour. PDA strategies improved her behaviour. Reading booms specifically around girls with ADHD was far more helpful. My child does not t have a behaviour disorder BECAUSE i moved away from traditional parenting advice. She can now articulate the PDA emotional reaction as she has great insight. As long as she isn't in an environment where she is subjected to loads of external demands then she can now manage it internally. But like others have said, sometimes even self imposed demands trigger the PDA.
Hello.. I feel there is a general issue today, and profound injustice toward ADHD calling them disordered (= they have problem): basically if you think about it, ADHD percentagewise represents a very small minority in a society, this is why we call it disorder..it all comes down to the fact that Majority deciding that the Minortiy should be a disorder.. so there is some kind of injustice and abuse of power from majority toward minority..now lets assume ADHD'ers are majority and none-ADHD is minority in society , of course the ADHD will then be the none disordered conditions and the the NONE-ADHD would be called the disorder.. The scientists will tell you then, "well , ADHD is a disorder because cannot survive by itself", are you sure about that? have you seen us ADHD surviving without the help of none-ADHDer's ? I can tell you the ADHD'ers can survive very well and iin a great manner without the help of any none-ADHDer's, and we are extremley independant compared to the none-ADHDer's... so this is why it is not a disorder.. another arguement then always arises: how come we are a minority if we are not disordered people? well, because nature do not need more of our kind: we simply have role to play in a society, and society do not require more than our actual percentage for us ti play the role (so this is of course my belief, but it does make sense also when knowing nature like variety and diversity for survival of any sociaty, spiece, and nature decides about that percentage of each group and self regulate)... So now the question arises too: we need to clinically understand also the none-ADHDers and their slowliness in thinking, why they tend to panik in crisis situations ? a lot of noneADHD ers have tendency to be psychopathic (I feel ADHDers are more emphatics in general), it is worth investigating that: impairements of none-ADHDers with certain things..where are clinicians on that matter? I think too the none-ADHDers need to take a pill to speed up their thinking, they are too slow, we should do research on pills based on Ecstasy may be so that they can think faster and help them ..
I’ve worked with adhd kids for years and I love the way they think. It’s not IQ that I notice but a unique and often positive process in certain situations, that stands out.
"disorders are failures of adaptations that lead to functional ineffectiveness" , yes agree: minority cannot adapt to a world made up of a majority (a world created by the extrme majority of 95% of people, a socitey built by a majority ).. so the question is not that ADHD has problem , it is the society which does not understand that we are here to stay and that we are valuable asset for a society and that without us the socitey is diminushed..so the whole problem is to make them understand the society , to make understand that majority are in denial.. is nt this a problem of modern time? were ADHD'er throughout history always considered as disorder? I doubt it that 300 years ago the ADHD'ers were considered as disordered..
Both you and Hallowell are wrong: ADHD is neither a gift nor a curse; ADHD simply is! An ADHDer is always an ADHDer, whether they are "succeeding" or "failing". I take issues with the way that you say that [famous person] succeeded despite their ADHD, but struggled with addiction(e.g.) because of it. Were they suddenly "cured" while they were succeeding??? Did they re-aquire it when they got in trouble??? Do NT's never struggle with addiction or the law??? Even on meds, ADHD brains still diverge from the average human brain, and they don't stop diverging simply because we consider them more exploitable for capital gain
and I disagree pretty much on all your points… lol…. including your attack on Gabor Mate too. the dry science always misses the point and I see a proof of this in your work.
This being released at midnight is very ADD-appropriate 😂🎉🧠
5am here and I start work at 9. Ooops.
Omg ROFL I was just thinking how my brain is only working now because I should be asleep and all my Adderall is finally activating my brain and helping my APD?
Yeah...let the games BEGIN!! 👏 😆 👏👏. 👍👍
Please take the gift back. I’ll gladly not live this way with emotions that bring me physical pain and a lifetime of not being understood in every relationship I’ve ever had. The lack of working memory. Forgetting things constantly, hyper fixating on the wrong things or person. Take it, all of it.
Also the struggle with time, self esteem, future planning, functioning like a normal person with a savings account and long term plans.
Feels like a curse as soon as I’m obligated to do something. Feels like a gift when I have no pressure to deliver anything or live up to something.
My mind goes to places normal people don’t reach, it’s enjoyable in a creative environment
Some of us by nature are more positive about our ADHD, and I think it’s down to personality traits.
I’ve had tremendous struggle because I was undiagnosed. But I tend to see the glass half full and naturally push forward through adversity. It’s just in my wiring.
I think Ned Hallowell and others have a similar bent.
I’m glad we are all different because we need the Russell Barkleys to ground us and consider the negatives, too.
I believe that there is research in health psychology which describes how presenting examples of highly successful people with diseases (e.g., type 1 diabetes)can lead to a casual approach to management in others - rather than improving outcomes! So not achieving the goal of trying to inspire people that type-1 is not a barrier…. It is a barrier and requires management AND some people do incredible things… which likely took a lot of work, a lot of resource and a bit of LUCK too.
As usual a balanced and reasoned argument… lovely to have this type of content on UA-cam! Thank you!
I also feel like people mistake some traits of ADHD for actual ADHD. Many of my friends are entrepreneurs, creatives, etc and we are alike in 80% of our traits, but they don’t have the dysfunction.
They have the creative benefits that come from a somewhat loose attention span but are able to back it up with exceptional executive function on the other hand.
I feel like this when medication works.
I think many modern podcasts and “experts” are confusing such exceptional people as having ADHD because they’re not distinguishing based on executive function.
I'm not sure they are confusing...many of them sell a product that is not accessible to typical ADHDers, so they market to either high-functioning ADHDers (for which is truly only going to be a very small number) or those who simply like to identify with ADHD (as you say have some traits but not clinical dx....but these are the people with money to spend so let's keep feeding them the idea they have ADHD and that their diagnosis is valid)
Sorry should say "self-diagnosis" is valid
Let me also clarify because I recognise the term high functioning ADHDer sounds absurd...refering to the few who have overcome the odds based off other gifts they have and supports they've received and become "successful" in one area of their life, usually career, but exhibit impairments in all the other domai a of life.
I’ve always thought that saying ADHD is a gift is almost gaslighting. For me, it’s a curse, a complete nightmare that is trying to destroy my life. The amount of time and money for therapy, doctor visits, the side effects of stimulants and other medications, trying to get accommodations, figuring out ways to compensate and work with instead of against my brain, is exhausting. It’s an hour-to-hour struggle. So the idea that it’s a gift, to me that is not only a sick joke, it’s adding deep insult to injury to sweep the misery away and try to say it’s a gift. I wouldn’t wish this gift on my worst enemy.
A curse can transform into its own and unique gift. I think that is the case for quite some people with ADHD, if you're able to overcome you can come out stronger (or at least with a new perspective) than before. And I think that should be celebrated. I therefore think that some people with ADHD are more equipped and suited to doing certain things, maybe even call it excellence.
However, I don't think even for the ADHDers excelling it does not bring more positive than negative.
Children with ADHD require more parental investment than neurotypical children to flourish. And that is simply not always possible, let alone plausible. However, when they are given what they need, they can bring something unique and special to all of us.
A well-functioning diverse society is stronger than a homogeneous one.
I do enjoy the very accurate language on the critique over the multiple sides of a phenomenon. Appreciate it!
Hi Dr. Barkley, in past lectures you've made a strong distinction between verbal working memory and non-verbal working memory. This is extremely helpful to me as I feel my verbal working memory is significantly impaired, but my non-verbal working memory is less so. I often struggle to recall common words during conversation.
I wonder if you would consider doing a lecture specifically on verbal working memory? Inclusive of not only deficits in language comprehension but also language production. I know there has been at least a small amount of research on the latter, and I would really like to understand better.
Thank you again for your lifetime of work and this youtube channel.
Thank you for sharing, this is very interesting.
From my personal experience living with someone who has ADHD, I try to avoid using emotionally charged terms like "gift" or "curse". However, it's true that focusing solely on ADHD as an impairment can sometimes make the person feel trapped. It can be challenging to balance the understanding that ADHD is indeed an impairment, while also recognizing that you can live with it and even lead a successful life, whatever "success" means for you.
I really value your perspective on ADHD, particularly how it can interact with other traits in ways that sometimes help individuals achieve certain goals, even as it creates difficulties in other areas. Your insights have been very helpful for me in navigating my relationship with someone who has ADHD, especially in practical terms. I truly appreciate the time and effort you’ve put into these lectures.
I completely agree with you that saying ADHD is a gift isn’t helpful because when I was in school telling my tutor I was having a difficult time comprehending the material because of my ADHD, she would reply “Your ADHD isn’t that bad!” Long story short after one semester I was dismissed from said school due to poor grades. I sit here constantly telling myself if my cries for help were taken more seriously I wouldn’t have been dismissed or even if I was at least I would have felt better in knowing that everything was done for me and not much more could have.
This series is some of your best youtube work.
I do agree that the combo of other gifts with ADHD can lead to superior outcomes with concommitant disability. E.g. IQ. For example, picking up the high school physics book and reading it out of boredom... I was better than my peers at physics. This wasn't prescribed... other classmates might think "Who does that?"
At the same time, 4 years of incompleted tax returns, not writing thank you correspondence, not opening emails, letters... curse!
No one tells me to venture down rabbit holes, but often times they turn out useful, maybe not immediately.
ADHD with other gifts is like having some lopsided D&D character with both outsize gifts and flaws. It's like having a powerful sword (the hyperfocus and knowledge from various rabbit holes one has hyperfocused on) with a low chance to hit, and a good chance of hitting other objects not aimed at.
ADHD treatment is about reducing the downsides of the condition.
If we understand people as sets of attributes we understand it is less about perfection and more about the right tool for the job, and using those tools effectively.
But... the downsides can be debilitating.
What I learnt from you is priceless
Just in one week
Dear Russ, I hope you have time for a Q&A video sometime in the future. Some commentators here put out really interesting views and questions, and science is all about communication.
Thanks a lot for this awesome series of video! I do agree with you, while I understand why someone would portray this condition as some kind of gift, and while it may be true for very specific conditions, I think it causes more harm than good by misguiding people to think they are gifted. It also feeds the narrative of people that earn money from that, often with honest intentions, while ADHDers don't try to treat their condition.
Why should I use treatment for a gift ? The slippery slope I see is that it would, in the worst cases, even promote misbehaviours, and reduce them as just personal quirks, preserving in the process the ego of people that would actually need help and might harm themselves and their loved ones.
I see a similar pattern with giftedness and alleged deficiencies. A lot of therapists put high IQ alongside ADHD, autism or personality disorders as if it was some kind of target audience they want to treat. Except it's not a condition. Gifted people perform better in life on average, yet you will find a lot of blogs, videos and therapists online saying those patients suffer because of their giftedness. I don't know about the english-speaking world, but in french medias you come across people calling themselves "zebras". The term has been created and used by people who actively want to make it some kind of disorder. By choosing an easy scapegoat, it also casts a shadow on the real origin of the suffering they do have. It's disheartening to know so many people can't get appropriate help because of that..
Thank you for this video-the Holderness’s take on ADHD being “awesome” has been grating on my nerves and now I know why!!
Thank you once again, Dr Barkley. Fantastic series.
Adaptation can be the gift, but it’s a curse overall.
Ignored it for the past decade, left myself nothing but regret and damage to self esteem after being fired yet again and dealing with the depression that accompanies it.
“If only he applied himself”
“Why haven’t you saved any money?”
“Why haven’t you been applying for jobs”
“My co-worker has adhd and is wildly successful, why aren’t you”
Also, seeing it as a gift does not even always make me feel better.
I like some aspects of my adhd, and reminding myself of the times my life has been impacted positively by it helps balance out the many ways in which I fall short of societal expectations because of it. So in that sense, viewing it as a gift in some areas (of my life, specifically) helps me feel better, and gives me the strength to get through a bad day.
But all this talk about how incredibly entrepreneurial people with adhd supposedly are also makes me feel worse about never having wanted to start a company, and even being overwhelmed at all the steps (of admin work) that would probably go into that.
How incredibly talented and creative adhd supposedly makes you, and I just think of all my unfinished paintings, that were just a fun time back then, but through this lease feel like a failure of making something out of my gift,
The great athletes, and I can’t even get myself to stick with one workout routine for more than a few weeks.
It’s just more random expectations to fall short of, and that doesn’t feel great in the long run.
For some reason I am able to do that. Start very small, keep a log, and gradually add to it with progressive overload.
Thank you Dr Barkley!
I personally do not view ADHD as a super power of any kind. Rather a limp that I “through sheer determination and grit” got through life this far undiagnosed. I have high IQ and made it into the medical profession. But I am acutely aware of my shortcomings and struggles.- all attributed to ADHD. They have hindered my progress as a professional, a wife and a mother. ADHD has destroyed my family and seeks to destroy mine at every turn. It is no super power.
@russellbarkleyphd2023
Dr. Barkley,
You should considering doing live streaming videos here. Maybe even a weekly live stream where you lecture and do some Q&A.
I applaud you sir for your 'Downsides of Viewing ADHD as a Gift' segment of the video. This 'ADHD is a superpower' mythology that seems to be ubiquitous nowadays angers me to no end. It's bad enough that essentially nobody takes ADHD seriously as it is. The last 3 bullets points made me realize that this nonsense is potentially even more destructive than I realized. Quoting you, it's 'worse than wrong'. 😦
Very real, I ignored my adhd for a decade and looking back, I by my very nature set myself up for failure. I didn’t do anything for tomorrow me, I didn’t care, and now I’m left holding the bag, dealing with job loss, lack of career direction or growth, and in worse health.
These are borderline passive common issues, and when propped up with societal expectations…
“You should have thought of saving your money”
“You should have gone to school and stuck with a career”
“Where are my grandchildren”
“Just try harder”
“If only he applied himself”
“Stop playing video games all day, it’s a waste of time”
“Stop being a lazy loser”
“Why is your credit score so low”
“When I was your age…”
One day you wake up and your 30 with no life direction, having been fired yet again, living in poverty, looking back at the damage and lack of care for the future as you start to face the consequences.
Thank you for this thorough 4 part series Dr Barkley. It has been a great resource to tap in to. Ngā mihi
When they study a bunch of college students and find that wow, most ADHD students are gifted, the conclusion shouldn't be that ADHD kids are more likely to be gifted. A more probable explanation is that if you have ADHD, you need to be gifted to even get into college...
In true adhd fashion I was half way through a comment about benefits from other traits interacting with adhd when you changed slide and started talking about it. 😂
This mini series has been fascinating, thank you.
Thank you, Dr. Barkley, I enjoy watching your videos!
I do like Dr Hallowell but I do agree with you - this is by no means awesome for me. I see nothing positive about digging around in the wheelie bin at 2am because I inadvertently threw away my medication and then ending up hysterically crying about being a useless and ineffective person for an hour. True story.
The problem with this discussion is semantic. ADHD, as defined, is not a set of genetic traits or attributes but a combination of those with environmental factors that results in impairment. It's tautological, ADHD as defined excludes anyone who is significantly benefiting from the genetic traits common to it. So, any argument using studies of ADHD patients to refute the theory that the genetic traits associated with it can be beneficial are flawed by sampling bias. When people talk about the "benefits of ADHD", they are colloquially talking about the benefits of whatever physiological distinction leads many to an ADHD diagnoses, whereas ADHD research deliberately focuses on those whose lives have been negatively impacted. They're not talking about the same thing.
For me it's the messaging that gets my back up, rather then the underlying concepts that Dr Hallowell is talking about.
The idea that some of my brain processes that impair me could be managed and harnessed to improve my life in other ways isn't out there. I've got the brain I've got, and while medication helps, no amount of swimming against the stream is going to change the flow of the river.
But I find the boundless optimism rather invalidating.
That said, I'm not sure I agree if someone is not impaired by their ADHD after extensive management of their life to achieve that, that it's sensible to say they no longer have the disorder. Perhaps it would be better to see these things as similar to aids like glasses - they do not erase the impairment.
Thank you
Can someone help point me to where Hallowell said that ADHD people are smarter? I’ve read all of his books and I can’t recall him writing that.
Thank you for this.
How do individual or group differences among people with ADHD get researched and compared? I wondered if that ever happened but would be too big a study.
And does positive psychology really help people with ADHD when receiving therapy?
Has technology or modern society also lead people without ADHD lead to prefer simple answers so that they don't differentiate the gift or curse debate and take them
as generalization?
In extreme brevity I wish address so many of the topics:
- averaging: I think it is about time do some serious data mining; coming from computer science I _feel_ like ADHD and autism struggles from categories that are too broad with a huge chance of denial both by society and by the affected individual ("but you don't look autistic!"); there might coherent subtypes with very particular subsets of comorbidities
- is it talent? Sport is a bad example, where you have to do the same thing over and over. I think where the disruption shines is in creative industries, where the variety of ideas and special interests can make or break the product. For example the Alien franchise benefitted a ton from the art of HR Giger, which is a thing that comes from narrow, special interests, unheard of in neurotypicals.
- on special interests and hyperfocus: the question is that can you have those without autism or ADHD with that level?
- on America and Australia: there's a very specific "comorbidity" of being a citizen of an ex-British colony to both think the entire world should be like them and at the same time thinking they are special. Nope these are just nations just like the others. This deficit certainly, and I believe measurably, shows up when the expats of these countries fail to fit in their chosen new cultures (e.g. not learning the language, or moving to Mexico and complaining about the loud music there...).
I have seen a doco on Bipolar Disorder where most said they would not choose to be cured if they could because the good times outweighed the bad. The manic phase may be seen as a gift?
Dr. Barkley, can you post polls about random ADHD questions on your channel every time you release a video?
I think the presentation of both 1) ADHD x gift = superpower and 2) accepting that it is a disorder is a good way to distill it. It is well known that the average public does not handle scientific results, but if there is agreement, they will go along with it. Making those two fight against eachother seems pointless in the face of such strong evidence for BOTH.
It is not a gift , there is no evidence of ADHD making someone gifted, gifted people are people gifted, without ADHD or with ADHD
@@nowie4007 I did not say such thing. To clarify, the modulation of ADHD on a gifted person produces something unique and that can have a positive effect, even if it is negative on the average.
@@u_j134sThis might be true in some cases. In such cases, they most likely had the crazy amount of support and resources from the start. And/or their set of symptoms + comorbidities are not so impairing that they prevent effective use of gifts.
Being gifted is a super power on its own. By definition such a person is in the top few percentage of the population in some capacity, regardless of what disorders they might also have.
@@nowie4007 Being gifted with ADHD is like having a car with a powerful engine with brakes that don't work reliably, a transmission that slips sometimes, and a steering wheel with so much play in it that you can turn the wheel and count to two and then the car starts turning. The powerful engine is the giftedness. The crappy brakes, transmission, and steering are the ADHD. Those same crappy brakes, transmission, and steering don't allow you to effectively utilize all the power of the engine, just as ADHD doesn't allow you to effectively utilize your giftedness.
The other flip side of the coin: if ADHD is a superpower, then those of us that struggle with everyday tasks due to executive function, short term memory, etc. must just be uniquely stupid and unlucky 😅
I know right?!
I would love you to do a video on what the research says about people with ADHD and high IQs. Points of interest could be, do they tend to get diagnosed later than those with average IQs or is that just speculation? Are their symptoms less impairing or are they better at coping with them? On average at what age or period do they start struggling significantly if any? Does the potential lack of early support lead to worse outcomes than people than ADHD who have average IQs who are treated earlier? Or does the high IQ group still have similar or better outcomes? What are the outcomes of high IQ ADHDers compared to their neurotypical counterparts with similar cognitive profiles? If you could think of anything else that might be interesting that would be great. The emphasis of the video should be on what the research says rather than people’s hypotheses which may not be reflective of reality.
He has a video on ADHD and IQ
Another question is, for those who have high IQs who are diagnosed in childhood, is it because their ADHD is more severe? Or because they have a comorbid learning disability that presents itself and causes a closer look leading to an ADHD diagnosis that otherwise wouldn't have happened? What about those who are diagnosed with ADHD during the time when it was thought that one would outgrow it, leading to such things as their ADHD going untreated during high school (as happened to me)?
I’ve seen his video about IQ and ADHD, I’m asking him to specifically do a video about the intersection of high IQ and ADHD. A lot of ADHD as one would expect is based on the average. It would be interesting to see the effects of ADHD on this particular subgroup
Ooo I really like your question about whether those with high IQ and ADHD who were diagnosed as kids have potentially more severe presentations and/or a comorbid disorder. Yes it would be great to see what the literature says about that.
@@vans4lyf2013 I think too that the year of diagnosis also makes a difference, as the rates of diagnosis went up over time. I was diagnosed in 1984 at age 7, and while I was unable to find any data on the prevalence of diagnosed ADHD in the school age population at that time, I did find a paper from Oct 1985 which stated that 1% to 2% of school age children in the USA were on medication for ADHD. These days that's higher, something like 10% I believe. So assuming that the incidence of ADHD has remained the same though the years, the conclusion I come to is that only the more severe cases were being treated in 1984, compared to today. (I am considering a case of ADHD with a comorbid condition like learning disability as more severe).
This is why I pray and hope SOMETHING permanent in the form of a cure/treatment happens one day. It gives people the option to keep or reject their "gift". I never saw mine as a gift but a fucking curse. I PRAY AI will help us move AWAY from symptom management/lifelong treatments to actual disease/disorder elimination. It must be possible down the line to design and reshape your brain's neural system in adulthood. It simply must.
Halle-freaking-lujah. Russ you just stole all these thoughts from my head. This 4 part series was brilliant!!!! As a public health professional, an individual with ADHD and a parent to children with ADHD I couldn't agree more with all of this. The criticism you receive over taking the population approach is mirrored in all public health issues. The minds of folks these days is far too black and white. I enjoy the works of both you and Hallowell but it must be put into context as you so eloquently did. You are right 💯 times in this video. And yes, I must admit the recent release of a certain book you hinted at has been very off-putting ... From a family I used to enjoy very much watching the videos they produced, as a person deeply impacted by the intergenerational legacy of ADHD myself, I just find the whole thing woefully irresponsible. I admittedly have not read the book so perhaps I'll be proven wrong on my assumptions of the portrayal, but I have listened to podcasts of them being interviewed about the book and do also question myself if a person can have ADHD if life has just been so awesome for them. Let's rephrase: ADHD can be awesome but it mostly sucks. Or better yet: I can be awesome and have ADHD but that's because I work really hard every day to overcome the suck, and have been blessed with privileges and supports many don't have, and all that really sucks.
The same with Autism. Not a gift. Hindrance from hell. Having to prove your disability because "she has a boyfriend" she can't be Autistic.
I hope you will do a video on the Co occurrence of ADHD and Autism
He has done a video on this!
I have no doubt that my ADHD has helped me when writing music, but just because I jump from one thing to another, and by accident it happens to be brilliant. But the downside… Credit cards are a weapon of mass destruction in my hands, I might get letters from the tax office that say “important” and “read them later”. “At last I leave right on time… hold on… Where are my keys?” I know how to act on every occasion, but I just won’t. I have a significant high IQ. But my Working Memory hovers around 80 (at least the last time I took a test a year ago )scheduled for 9am, feeling tired, unrested and lazy, so when I had to say sequences of numbers backwards I’d give up most of times because the effort I had to put into it was not worth it. After all it was just a test I payed for, but I was looking forwards to get done and have lunch with a friend. ADHD has screwed so many things. I got the Japanese cops with search warrants at home because I was stupid enough to hang around someone that I suspected was using drugs. I should have stopped being around that idiot when I noticed something weird, but I kept leaving it for “later”. I’ve been living in Japan for 25 years now and anything related to drugs is jail and deportation for life for foreigners. And I have a beautiful daughter and a beautiful wife. And I almost lost it because of this. Thank God I don’t do drugs, had I tested positive I wouldn’t be writing this comment here… So what a gift.
I just missed my train lol
I think they do this in order to stop stimulant prescribing.
The obsession about IQ or giftedness should be addressed and stopped. Those can be celebrated and nurtured outside the medical boundaries but not to confuse with the aspects that are considered as disorders.
You disagreed with the suggestion that the greater prevalence of ADHD in the USA and Australia was possibly due to a greater proportion of settlers having a criminal history. In disagreement, you noted that ADHD is found all around the world. But, that does not contradict the statement about prevalence. Why not address that directly by either citing other countries with similarly high rates of ADHD, or countries with similar criminal backgrounds with low rates?
A curse 100% if you have to live with someone who has it when you don’t
Double curse if you have it and live with someone who also has it😱 No one would remember who put what where and when, "It's you!" "NO, I've NEVER even seen that thing "
And it's the "never even seen" one did it
@@mdp_lady The problem is that ADHD often comes with problems like learning disabilities and DCD (developmental coordination disorder) that aren't 100% treatable. Those aren't ADHD? Well, for me, they came together.
It is surely a gift - just make sure to take meds against it!
Most of what Dr Barkley says is great. But his whole focus on very traditional behaviour management has always irked me. I read his parent book but it was specifically all the techniques that made the behaviour of my chidm worse. Traditional structured, consequence and positive reinforcement parenting made.my Audhd child worse. Amd the more o did it the worse the behaviour. PDA strategies improved her behaviour. Reading booms specifically around girls with ADHD was far more helpful. My child does not t have a behaviour disorder BECAUSE i moved away from traditional parenting advice. She can now articulate the PDA emotional reaction as she has great insight. As long as she isn't in an environment where she is subjected to loads of external demands then she can now manage it internally. But like others have said, sometimes even self imposed demands trigger the PDA.
Hello.. I feel there is a general issue today, and profound injustice toward ADHD calling them disordered (= they have problem): basically if you think about it, ADHD percentagewise represents a very small minority in a society, this is why we call it disorder..it all comes down to the fact that Majority deciding that the Minortiy should be a disorder.. so there is some kind of injustice and abuse of power from majority toward minority..now lets assume ADHD'ers are majority and none-ADHD is minority in society , of course the ADHD will then be the none disordered conditions and the the NONE-ADHD would be called the disorder.. The scientists will tell you then, "well , ADHD is a disorder because cannot survive by itself", are you sure about that? have you seen us ADHD surviving without the help of none-ADHDer's ? I can tell you the ADHD'ers can survive very well and iin a great manner without the help of any none-ADHDer's, and we are extremley independant compared to the none-ADHDer's... so this is why it is not a disorder.. another arguement then always arises: how come we are a minority if we are not disordered people? well, because nature do not need more of our kind: we simply have role to play in a society, and society do not require more than our actual percentage for us ti play the role (so this is of course my belief, but it does make sense also when knowing nature like variety and diversity for survival of any sociaty, spiece, and nature decides about that percentage of each group and self regulate)... So now the question arises too: we need to clinically understand also the none-ADHDers and their slowliness in thinking, why they tend to panik in crisis situations ? a lot of noneADHD ers have tendency to be psychopathic (I feel ADHDers are more emphatics in general), it is worth investigating that: impairements of none-ADHDers with certain things..where are clinicians on that matter? I think too the none-ADHDers need to take a pill to speed up their thinking, they are too slow, we should do research on pills based on Ecstasy may be so that they can think faster and help them ..
my mother believes that adhd kids are more intelligent 😅
So does my dad 😂
Why?
I’ve worked with adhd kids for years and I love the way they think. It’s not IQ that I notice but a unique and often positive process in certain situations, that stands out.
"disorders are failures of adaptations that lead to functional ineffectiveness" , yes agree: minority cannot adapt to a world made up of a majority (a world created by the extrme majority of 95% of people, a socitey built by a majority ).. so the question is not that ADHD has problem , it is the society which does not understand that we are here to stay and that we are valuable asset for a society and that without us the socitey is diminushed..so the whole problem is to make them understand the society , to make understand that majority are in denial.. is nt this a problem of modern time? were ADHD'er throughout history always considered as disorder? I doubt it that 300 years ago the ADHD'ers were considered as disordered..
Both you and Hallowell are wrong: ADHD is neither a gift nor a curse; ADHD simply is!
An ADHDer is always an ADHDer, whether they are "succeeding" or "failing". I take issues with the way that you say that [famous person] succeeded despite their ADHD, but struggled with addiction(e.g.) because of it. Were they suddenly "cured" while they were succeeding??? Did they re-aquire it when they got in trouble??? Do NT's never struggle with addiction or the law???
Even on meds, ADHD brains still diverge from the average human brain, and they don't stop diverging simply because we consider them more exploitable for capital gain
and I disagree pretty much on all your points… lol…. including your attack on Gabor Mate too. the dry science always misses the point and I see a proof of this in your work.