@@williamacheson8188British manufactured ambiguity, does not equate to ,complexity, the history of the conflict is well documented and understood. To suggest that a small number of catholic priests operating in collusion with militant republicanism was equal and proportionally counter to , twenty three thousand troops, twelve thousand armed police along with many tens of thousands of loyalist paramilitaries , an untold number of spooks , assets and agents with unlimited access to funds and resources , is patently absurd. Indeed your assertion that the Catholic church was complicit is actually an inversion of the true turn of events. For some of what is known along with much ,yet to be exposed, regarding the extent to which the catholic church in Ireland had been compromised ,the extent of the vile crimes against children , being both carried out ,then covered up. Assuring the silence of the RC church was one of the greatest feats of MI's5+6.
@@williamacheson8188 In reply to your comment, which, by the way , isn't appearing on the comments proper. You seem to be unaware that both protestants and Catholics were murdered by Gusty and his equally beer soaked UVF comrades. Among them John Scullion May 27th 1966 , Peter Ward and Matilda Gould, not only prior to the year ,you state 1972 ,supposedly in response to violent republicanism. A fiction of course , as those I've named died before even the phrase ,the troubles, had been coined. So too did Samuel Devenny, beaten to death in his own home , by the the same RUC you claim merely baton charged rioters. The IRA , existed only in your head and that of the Paisleyites. Indeed such was the lack of a republican insurgency, that a number of the goodly doctors acolytes ,took it upon themselves ,to plant bombs including at both Silent valley and Ballylumford power station resulting in the death of a close friend and confidant of the reverend, D. Mc Dowell blowing himself up in that particular false flag operation. Of course Paisley denied all knowledge , preferring instead to resume convincing the protestant population of an impending papist plot to subvert and sabotage his beloved province , or at least one part of it. There were indeed old school militant republicans in nationalist areas , but most were , for the best part ,considered by their respective communities as eccentric romantics , recounting battles, usually lost , telling tall tales ,then meandering on home from the bar , listening to some rebel records before dreaming once more of reunification. That would have stayed the case too , but for the attacks on the civil rights movement. Your claim that protestants had their hand forced too in their foray into Bombay St , Short Strand and Ardoyne ,another fiction. To claim it as being of some strategic necessity, patently wrong. There's a line spoken in the movie , Mississippi Burning , by the character played by Gene Hackmann. There are parallels , I would contend, between the racism , sectarianism and discrimination in those southern states and your cherished NI. In an attempt to explain the thinking , if you can call it that , behind the Klan's hatred ,he says his Ole daddy , reasoned " Son if you ain't no better than a N****r , who is , you better than"? You see the people of the Shankill, even with the nepotism of the lodge , the dodgy handshakes and police militias ,all knew, that they too , were at very bottom of the ladder , unless that is , they could denigrate, demonise , ultimately attack , kill and dispossess their catholic counterpart's and that ,with limited success ,is what they did. As for your new King, good luck with that I imagine God will keep him safer than he /she managed to , his late wife , the woman who predicted her own death, for a while anyway. I , for my part intend to have an extensive collection of the pictures that you mentioned. Putting children through university is so very expensive ,although I am aware , not so much emphasis is placed upon this by , your lot , to borrow a phrase you used previously. I do so ,hope , that their grasp of politics and or law , is sounder than your rendition of history. Perhaps like many of your demographic your talents lie elsewhere, in music perhaps , mine sadly ,show not the slightest inclination to find time for band practice and selling buds or crack is a non starter , if you follow my drift. I'm off for now , I have over two dozen home works to mark. But please remember ,your opinion , mine too , for that matter , do not count , only the facts as documented matter and most importantly of all , they will be ,thoroughly, documented.
@@williamacheson8188 Priests I think you find more Protestant Revered/Pastors in UVF and UDA then Catholic Priests in IRA accept 1 guy and he was excommunicated if I'm not mistaken
@@jamesoneill2933 Jesus James, talk about putting someone back in their box.😂. Your sparring partner clearly hasn't the balls, for want of a better phrase, to post publicly.
Was thinking that myself. Growing up in Belfast and being immersed in the environment you can tell everything about this case doesnt add up or feel right. Going back to the late 80s it might have seemed complicated and confusing to those affected but in 2023 with the passing of so much time and with hindsight it seems obvious that the intelligence services operating in NI at the time were protecting their agents/informers.
I had the same reaction. Glad I found this. It makes me wonder if the actual perpetrators were people who were too valuable to the Brits and Unionists to be arrested for the crimes.
They are most likely innocent. The RUC and MI5 had a loyalist paramilitary on their payroll they didn't want people to discover so they allowed the UDR 4 to be blamed to cover for that agent.
@@patricktalbot8980I would say the UDR are totally innocent now, in light of revelations recently from a man who served life for the murders of soldiers. These 2 cases were investigated by the same RUC detective who it turns out to have some notoriety in obtaining confessions. However the UDR 4’s guilt was challenged by a Catholic Priest Fr Pat Buckley, who produced a witness many years ago to suggest Latimer was innocent. This was as usual, dismissed.
Yeh !. Jack-ass fools - doubly useful. Available cannon fodder for angry Republicans and useful 'fall guys' when somebody important needs to be protected.
Ah, the smell of sectarian bigotry is always alive on this channel. Doctor Who should stick all you loyalists in his tardis and drop you back off at 1690. Dont worry, you can still play the flute and build bonfires there too!
David Gallagher, I'll pay for a bag or wrap of your favourite gear Crack Smack or whatever , for each instance of loyalists, engaging with armed opponents that you can mention, that is excluding 1690 , ok ?
Loyalists jailed by loyalists for operating beyond the control of yet more loyalists.
@@williamacheson8188British manufactured ambiguity, does not equate to ,complexity, the history of the conflict is well documented and understood.
To suggest that a small number of catholic priests operating in collusion with militant republicanism was equal and proportionally counter to , twenty three thousand troops, twelve thousand armed police along with many tens of thousands of loyalist paramilitaries , an untold number of spooks , assets and agents with unlimited access to funds and resources , is patently absurd.
Indeed your assertion that the Catholic church was complicit is actually an inversion of the true turn of events.
For some of what is known along with much ,yet to be exposed, regarding the extent to which the catholic church in Ireland had been compromised ,the extent of the vile crimes against children , being both carried out ,then covered up. Assuring the silence of the RC church was one of the greatest feats of MI's5+6.
@@williamacheson8188 like I said it's all documented. Have , you , got your wee blue passport yet ?
@@williamacheson8188 In reply to your comment, which, by the way , isn't appearing on the comments proper.
You seem to be unaware that both protestants and Catholics were murdered by Gusty and his equally beer soaked UVF comrades.
Among them John Scullion May 27th 1966 , Peter Ward and Matilda Gould, not only prior to the year ,you state 1972 ,supposedly in response to violent republicanism.
A fiction of course , as those I've named died before even the phrase ,the troubles, had been coined.
So too did Samuel Devenny, beaten to death in his own home , by the the same RUC you claim merely baton charged rioters.
The IRA , existed only in your head and that of the Paisleyites. Indeed such was the lack of a republican insurgency, that a number of the goodly doctors acolytes ,took it upon themselves ,to plant bombs including at both Silent valley and Ballylumford power station resulting in the death of a close friend and confidant of the reverend, D. Mc Dowell blowing himself up in that particular false flag operation.
Of course Paisley denied all knowledge , preferring instead to resume convincing the protestant population of an impending papist plot to subvert and sabotage his beloved province , or at least one part of it.
There were indeed old school militant republicans in nationalist areas , but most were , for the best part ,considered by their respective communities as eccentric romantics , recounting battles, usually lost , telling tall tales ,then meandering on home from the bar , listening to some rebel records before dreaming once more of reunification.
That would have stayed the case too , but for the attacks on the civil rights movement.
Your claim that protestants had their hand forced too in their foray into Bombay St , Short Strand and Ardoyne ,another fiction.
To claim it as being of some strategic necessity, patently wrong.
There's a line spoken in the movie , Mississippi Burning , by the character played by Gene Hackmann.
There are parallels , I would contend, between the racism , sectarianism and discrimination in those southern states and your cherished NI.
In an attempt to explain the thinking , if you can call it that , behind the Klan's hatred ,he says his Ole daddy , reasoned " Son if you ain't no better than a N****r , who is , you better than"?
You see the people of the Shankill, even with the nepotism of the lodge , the dodgy handshakes and police militias ,all knew, that they too , were at very bottom of the ladder , unless that is , they could denigrate, demonise , ultimately attack , kill and dispossess their catholic counterpart's and that ,with limited success ,is what they did.
As for your new King, good luck with that I imagine God will keep him safer than he /she managed to , his late wife , the woman who predicted her own death, for a while anyway.
I , for my part intend to have an extensive collection of the pictures that you mentioned.
Putting children through university is so very expensive ,although I am aware , not so much emphasis is placed upon this by , your lot , to borrow a phrase you used previously.
I do so ,hope , that their grasp of politics and or law , is sounder than your rendition of history.
Perhaps like many of your demographic your talents lie elsewhere, in music perhaps , mine sadly ,show not the slightest inclination to find time for band practice and selling buds or crack is a non starter , if you follow my drift. I'm off for now , I have over two dozen home works to mark.
But please remember ,your opinion , mine too , for that matter , do not count , only the facts as documented matter and most importantly of all , they will be ,thoroughly, documented.
@@williamacheson8188 Priests I think you find more Protestant Revered/Pastors in UVF and UDA then Catholic Priests in IRA accept 1 guy and he was excommunicated if I'm not mistaken
@@jamesoneill2933 Jesus James, talk about putting someone back in their box.😂. Your sparring partner clearly hasn't the balls, for want of a better phrase, to post publicly.
The ruc were protecting a loyalist agent in this case as 40& of udr are loyalists at night but these 4 are innocent
😢😢
I can safely say i never knew that there was loyalists stitched up by the police aswell
Was thinking that myself. Growing up in Belfast and being immersed in the environment you can tell everything about this case doesnt add up or feel right.
Going back to the late 80s it might have seemed complicated and confusing to those affected but in 2023 with the passing of so much time and with hindsight it seems obvious that the intelligence services operating in NI at the time were protecting their agents/informers.
I had the same reaction. Glad I found this. It makes me wonder if the actual perpetrators were people who were too valuable to the Brits and Unionists to be arrested for the crimes.
you served your country well god bless you
So, without bias does anyone know if they were all guilty? Except the guy who served
They are most likely innocent. The RUC and MI5 had a loyalist paramilitary on their payroll they didn't want people to discover so they allowed the UDR 4 to be blamed to cover for that agent.
@@patricktalbot8980I would say the UDR are totally innocent now, in light of revelations recently from a man who served life for the murders of soldiers. These 2 cases were investigated by the same RUC detective who it turns out to have some notoriety in obtaining confessions. However the UDR 4’s guilt was challenged by a Catholic Priest Fr Pat Buckley, who produced a witness many years ago to suggest Latimer was innocent. This was as usual, dismissed.
All 4 were innocent, fitted up by the state. Read the book on it.
What’s happening with this guys case?
Shocking.
These British sokdiers pledged their allegiance to a state that then shafted them. Most enjoyable.
100%
Yeh !. Jack-ass fools - doubly useful. Available cannon fodder for angry Republicans and useful 'fall guys' when somebody important needs to be protected.
Allegiance to a state, you live under a rock. More for the reasons of finance so they can pay bills.
Random question but who gave the UDA guns from Lebanon in 1982
The Lebanese
Britain, Britain, Britain and Britain
@@j2msu341 🤯
@@jamesoneill2933 Israel did, not Britain
Israel captured vz58 rifles in Lebanon and sent them to Northern Ireland, they weren't made in Israel so they had plausible deniability
The 'murder' of Adrian Carroll.
Don't cry.
Nevermind 😁
Ah, the smell of sectarian bigotry is always alive on this channel.
Doctor Who should stick all you loyalists in his tardis and drop you back off at 1690. Dont worry, you can still play the flute and build bonfires there too!
@@ForeverEngland76 There's no evidence that Adrian Carroll was a member of a paramilitary organisation.
David Gallagher, I'll pay for a bag or wrap of your favourite gear Crack Smack or whatever , for each instance of loyalists, engaging with armed opponents that you can mention, that is excluding 1690 , ok ?
I'm sure that the IRA asked the loyalists for a ceasefire because they got to heavy with them. Funny that 😄
@@ForeverEngland76 T-O-O too , heavy.
Battle of the Somme 1916...
@@kingbillyja Ah, Huns with guns.
@@kingbillyja feuds don't count
Johnson Elizabeth Gonzalez Scott Williams Deborah