Well me personally I hope it does better just because having another big earner for Corvus Belli will really secure their place in the market, giving them more flexibility to do things that customers need but aren’t always the most profitable, like a qapu Khalqi or Neoterra rerelease. When it comes to the game though, I can’t help but feel that marketing is such a key aspect of any business, me just looking in; I don’t think I understood any faction’s key strengths or their whole motif in a more general sense.
I really enjoyed the dice mechanics when I got a demo, I think it has a very unique feel which is nice with so many fantasy games out there. I’m hoping it can really shine with the mechanic and stylistic choices they’ve made!
I am very interested in warcrow. I love warhammet but 9th and 10th ed 40k sucks. I also love the models on infinity and my favorite genre is fantasy. So if the company that is behind great miniatures and game that is infinity are now doing a fantasy game is a win win for me!
The game looks neat but after receiving my copy and looking at the quality of the miniatures, it was promptly returned. Being very much into the hobby side of all wargaming, any game who decides to make their models from siocast will not be picked up. The models have the detail however many of them are lost, not to mention the amount of gaps and fixing or modeling any mold lines just leads to more frustration due to the material. Even CB recognized this and stopped using siocast for infinity and is switching over to Unicool for their non metal. But since they bought the machines, sunk cost fallacy must be in effect as they make their complete new game from it. From there only 2 factions at launch makes for a slow grow to the game. Many players will be waiting for "their" faction to release and that could be years. I fear the game will be forgotten about and in about 4 years once there is a variety of factions (and hopefully they are made in a different material) it will resurface as it moves to a 2nd edition.
I am very much looking at Warcrow. But of course I dropped Infinity almost a decade ago after trying very hard to get into it. There aren't many fantasy "skirmish plus" size games around (Warmachine is kind of in its own little genre box for me even as we are having lots of fun with it with the new edition) that are actually worth playing, and while I just don't find Infinity 's d20 system fun (remember, I tried very hard for 2 years), CB are a company that care about their games and settings, and I deeply appreciate that in a company.
That's cool, maybe this till end up being to your liking, the dice mechanic looks a bit more standard than infinity, though it has enough added to it that I think it looks interesting
Oh, yeah. Two years after getting my hands on Defiance I am sure CB will definitely keep a decent level of support that won't hurt Infinity at all! (Nope) Let's face it, CB doesn't have resourses for that.
I do agree with you that the KS stuff from CB has been #WeakSauce... #TagRaid? #Defiance? ... I guess the Warcrow Adventures game is at risk in theory and that release schedule has been a disaster... that said, personally, I'm really not backing ANY KS that is "KS only" and not going to retail.. it just makes no sense to me to put that much effort into a product that people then can't buy... so odd. But Warcrow is at least a full release, so should get support for at least the first 6 factions.
I think you are wrong when saying they haven't stop helping Infinity. For a few years, we have the same classified, the same ITS mission with 1 keyword changing. We are playing the same game for years now. The release then, they went full characters, like we have 5 new Uxia in a year, but not really much else. ''New boxes'' are rebundle of older skus. When I dropped from CB products, they had announced concept arts for 3 years and no minis in sight ( Shakush? lol ). Then, well to me they are pulling a Privateer press. Less support on the main game while they go to kickstarter...that are late and starts other product. Infinity the main game got super stale at the time. I really do not care about Warcrow, it can be the best game out there, but that all reeeks of Privateer Press and I'd rather not sell my minis at 10%. I hope it does goes, but that stint made go away from CB products.
That's interesting. I've only been keeping up with the game for 3 years or so, but they seem to maintain a pretty aggressive release schedule compared to most other companies. I didn't think it was even more prior to that time. But another factor during that same timeframe is that the pandemic hit and metal got expensive.
@@DefectiveDice I mean most of their releases at this time is taking 2-3 blisters and packing them together. The ammount of skus per month is the same, just 4-5 of them are now rebundles. The ITS and classified haven't moved in any meaningful way since 2019. I have the same classified deck sonce 2017.
I guess you've not been paying attention then? They just added a huge new part to infinity with reinforcements and every faction is getting new models. Only they last four or five months...
@@SkyMurrin Is it because they are done with writting War crow stuff, so now they are back at the main game...if that is so that would be because War crow did indeed take dev time from the Infinity...anyhow. Can't say I saw, our meta and players base flat lined around last year. We have more people playing warhammer fantasy old edition and old warmachine nowaday at the biggest store around. I do hope it brings back people!
@9:30 in... "Warcrow Adventures coming out before Warcrow wargame"... lol.. did NOT age well.. sadly... and I'm sure this wasn't the plan, and I'm glad they didn't hold off on releasing Warcrow Wargame.. but yeah.. timing on this is not what they wanted for the Adventure Game!
If you're worried that CB will discontinue your army because they're releasing Warcrow-- don't worry they were going to anyway😂. I'm actually looking forward to Warcrow. I bounced off of Infinity a bunch but hoping this will stick for me.
Do some research and see what CB started off with as a company. Also, Corvus Belli literally means war crow. I think you would be interested in some of the origins of the company and some of this will make more sense. Good video though brother👍
Are you talking about their historical stuff? I know the company had always planned to make a fantasy game which is really cool that it's finally coming around. I'm not sure what point you're making as far as that goes, but if you wanna elaborate I would be curious. The corvus belli Warcrow thing is cool, I guess I just find Warcrow to be a little generic sounding. It also sounds a lot like Warcry and I've seen people getting confused about that. All that said, I don't consider it any kind of serious knock on the game, a lot of names sound outright bad until we all get used to them and then we barely think about them anymore.
Honestly the thing that drove me away from infinity the most was the Yu Jing JSA split & what felt like, at the time, the world getting far more black & white than it had been (I think my last post on the old forums was actually a fanfic piece trying to make the IS look more human) but warcrow looks really neat & I hope for the best for the company that actually got me into table top skirmish games.
Oo interesting! I'm finding that there seems to be a love hate relationship with the lore in a lot of the community. But I'm glad it got you into the hobby!
finding product or other players? Where you at? I do feel like Corvus Belli does a great job with their intro-2 player starters and the "beyond" boxes (for Code One) for example... so not sure what you mean by "problem is finding it"... ?
@@SciFiPorkChop28 no store carries their product here, Nevada, I have been looking. Places that say they have it don’t. No one here can talk about how to get into it as a game…..
People complaining about Warcrow not being as complicated as Infinity are missing the point. CB is diversifying their lineup. And simpler core rules doesn't mean a worse game. For example, there's a reason why Infinity's fireteam rules, despite years of work, still feels like a separate, bolted on system to give better use of the more basic units to represent a squad acting together. Warcrow has squads built into the core rules. Infinity has a lot of weird compounding complexity that they struggle to wrangle into coherency, and they have to do this every time they release new models. Warcrow hasn't even released.
You saying that fantasy feels samey tells me you are not paying attention to fantasy stuff. It is certainly not just lotr retelling anymore. Check out what parabellum is doing with Conquest. Sure you have dwarves but they are certainly not Tolkien dwarves.
I was commenting on Fantasy at large, and not specifically tabletop. Also I said it often (not always) feels samey as compared to Sci Fi, but there are obviously exceptions going both ways. That all said, I think Conquest is a great example of fantasy that feels new and unique, so agreed!
Wooooo!!!! Down with infinity, all haill our new wargaming overlord Warcrow!!! Ok, i watched the video now, and i guess both are fine, but i have several follow ups How many crows can i have? Why are they at war? Can i use owls instead? Are some of the crows orcs? Orcrow? Crowrk? Can some of the crows be pacificist ravens? Are we fighting over small grains and who get to be creepy in twilit cornfield? You have shown several models that weren't crows, have they been shapeshifted into people, or are they wearing people masks? Please let me crow! erm... know!
Why can't we have both?! 😭😭 Also the answer to all of your questions is: Yes. Yes crows, yes orkcrows, yes pacifist ravens (but they die to the fog), yes shape shifting crows (none of this is canon)
Hi, Hoopoe here, part of the development team behind Warcrow. I will personally make sure that all your crows are fairly delivered, as it should. All the crows. Never enough crows. Will let you crow. Know. Caw!
I'm interested in Warcrow but it's taking way too long to release in my opinion. I'm also not a fan of the custom measurements. All that said, I won't be an early adopter. I've brought into too many dead games in the past to take that risk again.
Yawncrow... ... pass... Anyone who thinks CB is going to sacrifice Infinity for anything, doesn't understand CB or the miniature gaming market in general. The exact opposite of this is the real problem... Every game that CB has released besides Infinity has been yawn inducingly mediocre. Aristeia has failed because it was a niche within a niche that couldn't even steal players from the dumpster fire that is Underworlds. Like a lot of what CB does, it was too complicated and catered to snobbish intellectuals. The miniatures were also too nuts to be used for anything other than Aristeia (a lot of them were even useless in Infinity) where games like Underworlds have minis that could be used for DnD, Warhammer, Frostgrave, etc... Defiance was one of the worst looking dungeon crawlers of all time. The components looked like they were printed on a color copier out of tissue paper. Great minis, but you can get a lot more minis from games like Zombiecide, Starsaga, or Imperial Assault, with far better components. No surprise that game was dead on arrival and no one is playing it. Only CB could overthink a dungeon crawler to the point where it's unable to even break into retail. The new ship combat game has similar problems. It doesn't have game components that look as flashy as games like X-Wing. As for the "distinct" miniatures, that's exactly their problem. They seem like they were just trying to make miniatures that look different. In the end, even though more detailed, they don't look any better than what Song of Ice and Fire has released. The Warcrow minis just end up looking "off". Carnivale can give the minis a run for their money because the weirdness fits the game's theme, and other niche board games like Nova Aetas already have any of the players who might adopt a game like Warcrow. As much as I utterly hate a lot of Warcry's miniatures, nothing CB has shown us is going to convince anyone that Warcrow is beating Warcry. Even though CB had the name Warcrow 20 years ago (I mean, it's the name of the company), all the GW zombies will be instantly turned off simply because they'll accuse CB of copying Warcry's name. Warcry's models are terrible, but have a lot more flash, and a geometrically higher level of marketing. Warcry players will disdain the game as having boring miniatures and trying to copy GW. The name alone tells me CB is following their usual pattern of overthinking everything and approaching their game design with academically arrogant tunnel vision. How that name got past anyone who's taken marketing at a community college is baffling. Any game that can't steal players from GW games is dead in the water. Today's market is dominated by GW in ways it wasn't during Infinity's pre-8th edition 40k heyday. Then there are games like Frostgrave, Vanguard, and a slew of other fantasy skirmish games that have flooded the market over the last 10 years. It's not like 2007 when CB started Infinity in a market that didn't even have GW participation. People now have dozens of games to choose from, with many of them far greater communities than Infinity currently has. Warcry won't be able to compete at all, and it feels really desperate, or like CB has a lot of hubris, that they're even releasing this.
Considering another sci fi wargane has a problem with actual nazis on the fringes of their player base, im fine with a small group in Infinity just being vocally grumpy.
What do you think of Warcrow so far?
Well me personally I hope it does better just because having another big earner for Corvus Belli will really secure their place in the market, giving them more flexibility to do things that customers need but aren’t always the most profitable, like a qapu Khalqi or Neoterra rerelease. When it comes to the game though, I can’t help but feel that marketing is such a key aspect of any business, me just looking in; I don’t think I understood any faction’s key strengths or their whole motif in a more general sense.
I really enjoyed the dice mechanics when I got a demo, I think it has a very unique feel which is nice with so many fantasy games out there. I’m hoping it can really shine with the mechanic and stylistic choices they’ve made!
Thank you for your input about our game!
And I am very glad you had fun at GenCon, it was a pleasure sharing the experience!
It was great chatting with you! Sadly I never had a chance to sit for a full demo, but I got to watch a bit and it got me very excited
I am very interested in warcrow. I love warhammet but 9th and 10th ed 40k sucks. I also love the models on infinity and my favorite genre is fantasy. So if the company that is behind great miniatures and game that is infinity are now doing a fantasy game is a win win for me!
Agreed!
The game looks neat but after receiving my copy and looking at the quality of the miniatures, it was promptly returned. Being very much into the hobby side of all wargaming, any game who decides to make their models from siocast will not be picked up. The models have the detail however many of them are lost, not to mention the amount of gaps and fixing or modeling any mold lines just leads to more frustration due to the material. Even CB recognized this and stopped using siocast for infinity and is switching over to Unicool for their non metal. But since they bought the machines, sunk cost fallacy must be in effect as they make their complete new game from it.
From there only 2 factions at launch makes for a slow grow to the game. Many players will be waiting for "their" faction to release and that could be years. I fear the game will be forgotten about and in about 4 years once there is a variety of factions (and hopefully they are made in a different material) it will resurface as it moves to a 2nd edition.
I am very much looking at Warcrow. But of course I dropped Infinity almost a decade ago after trying very hard to get into it. There aren't many fantasy "skirmish plus" size games around (Warmachine is kind of in its own little genre box for me even as we are having lots of fun with it with the new edition) that are actually worth playing, and while I just don't find Infinity 's d20 system fun (remember, I tried very hard for 2 years), CB are a company that care about their games and settings, and I deeply appreciate that in a company.
That's cool, maybe this till end up being to your liking, the dice mechanic looks a bit more standard than infinity, though it has enough added to it that I think it looks interesting
@@DefectiveDice As long as it doesn't have Infinity's swinginess it will probably be good.
Oh, yeah. Two years after getting my hands on Defiance I am sure CB will definitely keep a decent level of support that won't hurt Infinity at all! (Nope)
Let's face it, CB doesn't have resourses for that.
I don't think they ever said they were going to continue supporting defiance, did they? My impression was that it was Kickstarter and done
@@DefectiveDice There are still certain cards that make no sense and they never addressed it...
But yeah, I guess that's a typical KS expierience
I do agree with you that the KS stuff from CB has been #WeakSauce... #TagRaid? #Defiance? ... I guess the Warcrow Adventures game is at risk in theory and that release schedule has been a disaster...
that said, personally, I'm really not backing ANY KS that is "KS only" and not going to retail.. it just makes no sense to me to put that much effort into a product that people then can't buy... so odd. But Warcrow is at least a full release, so should get support for at least the first 6 factions.
I think you are wrong when saying they haven't stop helping Infinity. For a few years, we have the same classified, the same ITS mission with 1 keyword changing. We are playing the same game for years now. The release then, they went full characters, like we have 5 new Uxia in a year, but not really much else. ''New boxes'' are rebundle of older skus. When I dropped from CB products, they had announced concept arts for 3 years and no minis in sight ( Shakush? lol ).
Then, well to me they are pulling a Privateer press. Less support on the main game while they go to kickstarter...that are late and starts other product. Infinity the main game got super stale at the time.
I really do not care about Warcrow, it can be the best game out there, but that all reeeks of Privateer Press and I'd rather not sell my minis at 10%. I hope it does goes, but that stint made go away from CB products.
That's interesting. I've only been keeping up with the game for 3 years or so, but they seem to maintain a pretty aggressive release schedule compared to most other companies. I didn't think it was even more prior to that time. But another factor during that same timeframe is that the pandemic hit and metal got expensive.
@@DefectiveDice I mean most of their releases at this time is taking 2-3 blisters and packing them together. The ammount of skus per month is the same, just 4-5 of them are now rebundles.
The ITS and classified haven't moved in any meaningful way since 2019. I have the same classified deck sonce 2017.
I guess you've not been paying attention then? They just added a huge new part to infinity with reinforcements and every faction is getting new models. Only they last four or five months...
@@SkyMurrin Is it because they are done with writting War crow stuff, so now they are back at the main game...if that is so that would be because War crow did indeed take dev time from the Infinity...anyhow.
Can't say I saw, our meta and players base flat lined around last year. We have more people playing warhammer fantasy old edition and old warmachine nowaday at the biggest store around. I do hope it brings back people!
Not interested in most fantasy genre at all, only interested in the main Infinity game, which is my jam! Cyberpunk!
@9:30 in... "Warcrow Adventures coming out before Warcrow wargame"... lol.. did NOT age well.. sadly... and I'm sure this wasn't the plan, and I'm glad they didn't hold off on releasing Warcrow Wargame.. but yeah.. timing on this is not what they wanted for the Adventure Game!
Lol that's just how crowdfunding goes I guess
What specifically do you like about scifi?
I think the common themes tend to appeal to me more. Sci Fi also tends to be optimistic, I am not but I think it balances my pessimism.
I’ll be checking out Warcry on day1 of Essen. See you there CB!
Nice 🎉
If you're worried that CB will discontinue your army because they're releasing Warcrow-- don't worry they were going to anyway😂. I'm actually looking forward to Warcrow. I bounced off of Infinity a bunch but hoping this will stick for me.
I am good with war crow. Looking forward to it. What I don’t like is that they don’t support Defiance.
What else does the game need? Other than some improvements to the English translations
It needs more content. More expansions.
Do some research and see what CB started off with as a company. Also, Corvus Belli literally means war crow. I think you would be interested in some of the origins of the company and some of this will make more sense. Good video though brother👍
Are you talking about their historical stuff? I know the company had always planned to make a fantasy game which is really cool that it's finally coming around. I'm not sure what point you're making as far as that goes, but if you wanna elaborate I would be curious.
The corvus belli Warcrow thing is cool, I guess I just find Warcrow to be a little generic sounding. It also sounds a lot like Warcry and I've seen people getting confused about that. All that said, I don't consider it any kind of serious knock on the game, a lot of names sound outright bad until we all get used to them and then we barely think about them anymore.
what factions are there
Honestly the thing that drove me away from infinity the most was the Yu Jing JSA split & what felt like, at the time, the world getting far more black & white than it had been (I think my last post on the old forums was actually a fanfic piece trying to make the IS look more human) but warcrow looks really neat & I hope for the best for the company that actually got me into table top skirmish games.
Oo interesting! I'm finding that there seems to be a love hate relationship with the lore in a lot of the community. But I'm glad it got you into the hobby!
I have thought of trying to play infinity, my problem is finding it…. And even getting started
finding product or other players? Where you at? I do feel like Corvus Belli does a great job with their intro-2 player starters and the "beyond" boxes (for Code One) for example... so not sure what you mean by "problem is finding it"... ?
@@SciFiPorkChop28 no store carries their product here, Nevada, I have been looking. Places that say they have it don’t. No one here can talk about how to get into it as a game…..
Super excited for this game!
Same!
People complaining about Warcrow not being as complicated as Infinity are missing the point. CB is diversifying their lineup. And simpler core rules doesn't mean a worse game.
For example, there's a reason why Infinity's fireteam rules, despite years of work, still feels like a separate, bolted on system to give better use of the more basic units to represent a squad acting together. Warcrow has squads built into the core rules. Infinity has a lot of weird compounding complexity that they struggle to wrangle into coherency, and they have to do this every time they release new models. Warcrow hasn't even released.
I hope they dont simplify rules too much in warcrow. If the rules are on infinity level this could be my second system besides malifaux:)
So far it seems really different, but there does seem to be plenty of depth to it
You saying that fantasy feels samey tells me you are not paying attention to fantasy stuff. It is certainly not just lotr retelling anymore. Check out what parabellum is doing with Conquest. Sure you have dwarves but they are certainly not Tolkien dwarves.
I was commenting on Fantasy at large, and not specifically tabletop. Also I said it often (not always) feels samey as compared to Sci Fi, but there are obviously exceptions going both ways. That all said, I think Conquest is a great example of fantasy that feels new and unique, so agreed!
Wooooo!!!! Down with infinity, all haill our new wargaming overlord Warcrow!!!
Ok, i watched the video now, and i guess both are fine, but i have several follow ups
How many crows can i have?
Why are they at war?
Can i use owls instead?
Are some of the crows orcs? Orcrow? Crowrk?
Can some of the crows be pacificist ravens?
Are we fighting over small grains and who get to be creepy in twilit cornfield?
You have shown several models that weren't crows, have they been shapeshifted into people, or are they wearing people masks?
Please let me crow! erm... know!
Why can't we have both?! 😭😭
Also the answer to all of your questions is: Yes. Yes crows, yes orkcrows, yes pacifist ravens (but they die to the fog), yes shape shifting crows (none of this is canon)
dont care if its canon, just care if its defective approved. Dice approved? Something
@@DefectiveDice
Hi, Hoopoe here, part of the development team behind Warcrow. I will personally make sure that all your crows are fairly delivered, as it should. All the crows. Never enough crows. Will let you crow. Know. Caw!
I'm interested in Warcrow but it's taking way too long to release in my opinion. I'm also not a fan of the custom measurements. All that said, I won't be an early adopter. I've brought into too many dead games in the past to take that risk again.
Custom measurements work well in Star Wars Legion.
neat video, neater orcs
I assure you the orcs will make a mess
Yawncrow...
... pass...
Anyone who thinks CB is going to sacrifice Infinity for anything, doesn't understand CB or the miniature gaming market in general.
The exact opposite of this is the real problem...
Every game that CB has released besides Infinity has been yawn inducingly mediocre.
Aristeia has failed because it was a niche within a niche that couldn't even steal players from the dumpster fire that is Underworlds. Like a lot of what CB does, it was too complicated and catered to snobbish intellectuals. The miniatures were also too nuts to be used for anything other than Aristeia (a lot of them were even useless in Infinity) where games like Underworlds have minis that could be used for DnD, Warhammer, Frostgrave, etc...
Defiance was one of the worst looking dungeon crawlers of all time. The components looked like they were printed on a color copier out of tissue paper. Great minis, but you can get a lot more minis from games like Zombiecide, Starsaga, or Imperial Assault, with far better components. No surprise that game was dead on arrival and no one is playing it. Only CB could overthink a dungeon crawler to the point where it's unable to even break into retail.
The new ship combat game has similar problems. It doesn't have game components that look as flashy as games like X-Wing.
As for the "distinct" miniatures, that's exactly their problem. They seem like they were just trying to make miniatures that look different. In the end, even though more detailed, they don't look any better than what Song of Ice and Fire has released. The Warcrow minis just end up looking "off". Carnivale can give the minis a run for their money because the weirdness fits the game's theme, and other niche board games like Nova Aetas already have any of the players who might adopt a game like Warcrow.
As much as I utterly hate a lot of Warcry's miniatures, nothing CB has shown us is going to convince anyone that Warcrow is beating Warcry. Even though CB had the name Warcrow 20 years ago (I mean, it's the name of the company), all the GW zombies will be instantly turned off simply because they'll accuse CB of copying Warcry's name. Warcry's models are terrible, but have a lot more flash, and a geometrically higher level of marketing. Warcry players will disdain the game as having boring miniatures and trying to copy GW.
The name alone tells me CB is following their usual pattern of overthinking everything and approaching their game design with academically arrogant tunnel vision. How that name got past anyone who's taken marketing at a community college is baffling.
Any game that can't steal players from GW games is dead in the water. Today's market is dominated by GW in ways it wasn't during Infinity's pre-8th edition 40k heyday.
Then there are games like Frostgrave, Vanguard, and a slew of other fantasy skirmish games that have flooded the market over the last 10 years. It's not like 2007 when CB started Infinity in a market that didn't even have GW participation. People now have dozens of games to choose from, with many of them far greater communities than Infinity currently has.
Warcry won't be able to compete at all, and it feels really desperate, or like CB has a lot of hubris, that they're even releasing this.
No. I won't.
What if I told you there's lore...
Considering another sci fi wargane has a problem with actual nazis on the fringes of their player base, im fine with a small group in Infinity just being vocally grumpy.
Well I certainly can't disagree with you there