I was VERY critical of the selection of Tom Curry and of Henry Slade - but I have to concede, both had their best games in a long time!! Well done to both.
I've noticed that English club teams,as a general unit,tend to blowout around the 55-60minute mark ,in euro cup games. England were similar,yesterday. Are the players overloaded in the English prem? I think it might be a contributing factor. England were more than a match for us up to that point.
@@speak_your_truth. It's been going on for YEARS. So frustrating to watch. And I think the points made here about selling ourselves short in the lineout are spot on.
I like Freddie Stewart love a full back who dominates the air but if I was an England fan I'd be getting worried about the list of highlight reels for other players he's on, mostly making him look silly with steps it seems to grow every few weeks
@Daniboi971 I used to say he was slow, too. But, to be fair, his running and attacking has really improved. Overall, he's a better player now than when everyone thought he was God's gift and was locked-in for 10 yrs.
Interesting comment about England being out on their feet. I reckon they put in so much into properly competing against a world class side, their knackeredness was surely inevitable. The Irish are total beasts...and the French will also be one hell of a challenge- they looked massive against Wales last night!
@danniboi971 - Fair assessment that the rush defence on every occasion is going to tire the team and surely the coaching staff know this, BUT then there has to be either fitness or strategy changes to counter the issue!! In the last ¼ most of the players were knackered, including the Irish, but the Irish were better at managing it. Ireland bench also outplayed England's bench.
I love ben earl and obviously think he’s great but I think he might be even better as an impact sub off the bench against tired legs, give tom willis the starting number 8 jersey because then he can really get into the game from the off and show his premiership form
@@jamzy24 Horses for courses. I see Willis getting a start soon with CCS starting. Underhill back in and Chessum coming back up to form, we have options.
Both Currys impressed me with their activity today busy everywhere. Mitchell's kicking off ruck was quality today but made lot of mistakes in defense. I still think Furbank is your best 15 when fit I think he has much better back field awareness and defense positioning.
Agree except we're wedded to this dumb idea that we play Marcus Smith with Mitchell and Furbank and then bring Fin Smith on late and at a stage where we sub Micthell and Furbank and move Marcus Smith to FB. It's just such an obvious way to increase team cohesion to reverse that.
I’m very happy for Murley. And I hope he is given time to grow at this level. Everytime he got the ball he made metres, worked so hard in making sure we had good ball. And his try and assist were great; equally his mistakes were big but few. His numbers are comparable to LBB from France in terms of metres carried, tackles and beat three defenders compared to LBB’s 5. Our organisation cost us that game, not mistakes. Marcus Smith moving to fullback wasn’t what the game needed, Randall wasn’t either. What’s the point of tactical flexibility if your changes were pre determined?
@ Rugby is a team game, no one on the England side covered themselves in glory. Yes Murley made mistakes, but they’re clearly down to nerves. And when he got the ball he made metres, scored a try, and assisted one off of Lawrence’s back. So no I’m not making a joke, it was a good performance underneath the media microscope; but he can and will get better, having watched him at Quins over the last 3 years I know he’s capable of being better
Murley also looks good in Prem ball in hand. However, in defense at Prem and now test match level (albeit 1 game) he struggles. He made 2 critical errors that took a toll on England. When you give teams that sort of position in what was a tight game? It means even if Ire don't score, more tackles and energy are expended defending. Lad can get better but he needs to work on his defense big time.
From an irish fan, England have destructive ball carriers, demonstrated again today in first 20 minutes. So their commitment to kicking away attacking ball - led by Smith and Slade - is so strange to watch. They'll do the same thing against Scotland, Italy etc. Feel like this must be contributing to the continued sense that this team is underperforming with the talent they have.
It's a modern tactic. South Africa and some others have proved that the team with the lowest possession often wins with a good defence and clinical opportunitistic finishing. What ya think of them apples 😂😂
Totally agree. They look great when they run it but usually choose to kick. Case in point when Steward fielded an Irish kick he ran it back only for Smith to kick it back to Ireland on the next phase. Made no sense. They looked better ball in hand first ten and last ten.
@ That's a dated stat. Eddie Jones banged on about it. The top four teams in the world all have diametrically opposed game plans. England kicked more than all of them in the 2023 RWC. Some attacking kicking is a necessity but when England can win gainline (an area Ireland can struggle sometimes), I believe they lose a lot of momentum and cough up opportunities for points. Also if the above logic followed, they'd want to be very low on defensive penalties, but that's never been a strength for this modern England team. In my opinion.
@@bybdy maybe the rule changes of last year might have changed all that. If IF we Ireland can beat Scotland next week then it's the French maestros the week after. I think they will beat us but it should be an absolute corker of a match. And possibly getting beat by rugby of the calibre of Duponts rugby will feel less crushing as you reflect on how exactly did he do that. Dupont is a force an exception to any rule he is wonderful.
We seem to be the only team in the 6 nations still obsessed with this constant kicking game ala Eddie jones. It was clear early on Ireland were winning most of the knockdowns, and they are too good a side to give them back possession constantly, especially when you see they are starting to get round the blitz etc. It’s makes our rugby so painful to watch. Ironically the tries we scored came when we didn’t kick it and actually looked dangerous running it
There's nothing wrong with good kicking. What kills teams is bad kicking. We kicked badly - you need to learn the difference. The Red Roses are world no.1 and everyone emjoys their matches - they kick the most out of all women's teams.
England scored the 1st try from bad Irish kicking ..... and England done the same there after was a great game 1st half Belonged the the Crown just werent clinical
Just in from the game, was worried at half time, thought Englands blitz defence worked very well but they tired noticeably after 50 minutes. The losing bonus point could be very important at the end.
Don’t agree there chum. England are not hitting the rite notes in any order. Just not good enough. Obviously the players are giving more than 100% have coming off early but not sense of being dangerous to play against. I would be rubbing my hands to play them were I an internationally talented player. I’m not.
England might get better, but I think Ireland will also get better, so, honestly, I don't think it matters at all when we play England in the schedule.
I might have missed this but I always think it's helpful to refer to what your rating scale is. eg for me 5 is a totally balanced performance. Contributed but not overall a huge plus or minus. 6 would be starting to make an overall positive performance. 10 would be a performance that we'll be speaking about in a years time and 9 a match-defining one. Normally the person I feel was an 8 is the MotM. Anything below 3 asks questions about whether that person should have been picked OR they made one or more very significant mistakes. Match losing in the same way as a 9 is acknowledgement of match defining. I also like to mark against a basic understanding of the quality of the opposition. So a 9 against the best French team would maybe be a 7 against a weak Welsh one with essentially the same performance.
Scotland fan here. Just an observation, but is England's size of player pool and number of clubs in the Gallagher perhaps muddying the waters, and causing a lack of cohesion in the team? I ask because the French team is largely comprised of Toulouse and UBB players, Scotland from its two pro sides and Ireland from 3 of the 4 Provinces (only 1 Ulster player in R1) Can England really expect to gel as a team in the brief window before the 6N, given their players are drawn from so many clubs? No agenda, just wondering if there is an issue with selecting individuals instead of proven club combinations ...?
Steve hates picking players that don’t or haven’t played for sarries or tigers and god forbid he ever makes a captain out of a quins or west country player
One phase and kick regardless of position on field is killing England's attack, out of all those kicks we had one that resulted in a try. We have so much talent and its getting wasted with miss poor management. Wigglesworth without a doubt is the worst attacking coach I've ever seen and it makes sense since all he did was kick the ball away when he played. A good example was France yesterday creating phases and space to kick into rather than allowing defence to set. The last 5-10mins England kept ball in hand we need to do that more.
What went wrong for England? 1) Most starters visibly tired after 55 mins 2) NO bench players ADDED anything, with the sole exception of Willis - who tried really hard. 3) Nightmare shifts from Murley & Mitchell defensively. Both were v good offensively. 4) Borthwick has ZERO attacking strategy - he relies on Marcus totally 5) Lineouts were horrible. LCD is a liability with consistent inaccuracy. 6) Steward is the world’s easiest FB to ‘step’, and provides little attack-wise
Agree on murley was absolutely shocking . Think the ref had a hand in changing the momentum with very marginal calls . The rest were not so bad and looked very good for periods of the game .
Firm disagree with Murley. Outside of those two howlers over the dead ball line, he was excellent. Made a lot of tackles and added to the England attack.
@@fraserposford144 I think I said, he was jittery defensively but had a good game going forward. Both of which I stand by - and nothing there that PROPER COACHING could not put right. But -since Fat Bill Sweeney and the blazers, seem utterly unconcerned - that’s clearly not going to happen, and Borewick will probably bin Murley …. which is the wrong call, whilst both Feyi and Ibitoye are crocked.
Fantastic assessments as always Tim. One suggestion re player ratings: in a game of two very different halves it might be more insightful to rate per half and then total.
As an England fan I've been in a slump of not caring about the result but just wanting a good game to watch. I thought it was. Some interesting calls but that's the game. Too many penalties and itoje being part of that doesn't help as him captain.
Big fan of the channel, Tim. Respectfully, i think you've overlooked LCD's defensive effort. We were backs against the wall a few times in the first half and ireland came away with nothing.
England are playing well but they have a problem I haven't seen people talking about. Rugby is inevitably a game of highs and lows and England can capitalise on their highs, but just can't minimise their lows. They need to devise and strategy (but most importantly grit) to pull themselves out of a momentum slump and turn the game around, not just wait for the other team to lose their momentum naturally.
We really missed Feyi-Waboso - he is a very young guy who has excellent positional and arial skills, unlike Murley, who was simply exposed by Ireland, who targeted him successfully. He shouldn’t play for England again until he proves he has sorted his issues with kicks. I agree Randall isn’t up to the standard and I think Spencer should have started anyway. He is physically more powerful aswell. I would love to see Quirk fit and back playing for England. Also Freeman isn’t quite a winger for me - he’s too slow - he’d be better at outside centre. Steward also is too weak in defence. The pack did ok, but need to give away fewer penalties, though England were unlucky at crucial moments in this game. It’s in the backs where England have more issues - they need Feyi-Waboso and Fairbanks back to get them up to last year’s level. I also prefer Sleighthome to Murley, though I understand he’s injured. Ireland were the better team, but England have potential still.
The same Cadan Marley that England fans have been screaming for for years? One game against arguably the best team in the NH, and you just want to drop him?
Love this channel and the analysis you provide, on the dropping Murley point I’d put him on the bench that may be harsh but he’s been exposed under pressure. I’m really uncertain about Randall he’s had enough chances for me when will we see Quirke that lads electric
Fair scores. I dont know if you saw but On the Love of Rugby pod they pointed out that at least one of the Murley 'error' he actually touched it so didnt think he could touch it down which is why he ran it out. Not sure but if true that increases his rating considerably. The Curry's were immense, but we missed our lineout weapon. Willis was disappointing, but maybe strat him at 8 with Earl coming on?
Tom Curry: Excellent. Himself reminds me of the bane of seeing and hearing Lewis Moody's name being on an English team announcement. Fierce, Brave, Ruthless, "Loopycidal".
Strongly disagree on the Marcus Smith front, he was incredibly quiet in the 2nd half until Fin came on and he went to fullback. Scored two tries in that configuration didnt we?
Hi Tim, love your vids mate and wishing you every success. I comment mostly only on your you tube videos of all the content creators on UA-cam I watch. I am eager to see your videos and squidge. I am big into heuristics and biases and have made similar comments on some of your videos , mainly on ref decision making and ref calls. I looked at this video last night and watched your Irish player rating this morning, went back to watch this video to check you weren’t biased as an English fan, not to be a dick but to point out any potential bias. I was happy to find your scoring of both teams was consistent. I happily found it was. Well done Tim! ps also I hope you get to Australia for the British and Lions tour. Is there any other way for your followers to sponsor you? Pss. I watch two cents for the southern hemisphere view. Pss. Your assessment of the impact of the bench was spot on. England are tracking nicely. Johnny Wilkinson made some great points in post match commentary about England, that they need to be rock solid and consistent on the basics/defence and the creativity will come. BOD also made a similar point in that England need to become more of an 80minute team. From an Irish and Munsterman.
Agree a lot with that. Though the backline is still a collective issue. Dropping Murley feels harsh. I’d consider Roebuck for Freeman. Steward unfortunately locked in as there are no mega obvious replacements. Prop replacement a shambles. Surprised that wasn’t covered. Giving bench props 10 mins is pointless. May as well have Asher on the bench. He’s not quite ready but his ceiling is comfortably higher than Heyes and Stuart. If you want bench impact Rodd has to be on the bench too. Don’t know if Quirke is fit, if not Spencer offers more control. Randall clearly not up to it at this level as he’s shown time and time again.
Irish fan . Imo as good as their kicking was , i felt their was too much kicking . Imo curry was man of the match . Fair play England, can see your improvements
Tim I suggest that you do a players rating on how well they performed in what has become two key aspects of the game - spitting and nasal clearance. Not sure the science behind these two skills, but is not a great advert for the game.
I’m so happy that the curry’s made a lot of people surprised of them playing together but being a sale fan watching them every week this is just a normal performance from them and I hope that it’s made all those people in the comments realise how good they are! Despite the result I think it was a good performance by England, attacking wise we didn’t offer too much in the second half and it didn’t help there were a few calls that didn’t fall our way but the team did alright few things to improve of course.
I agree with most of your marks, I didnt expect England to play as well as they did in the First half, Itoje got on the wrong side of the Ref and some media streams say he stamped on an Irish player.
To defend Fin Smith, Ireland had gained momentum way before Fin came on, he came on with 16 mins to go and then Marcus moved to full back, by that time Ireland had scored 3 tries. Personally I think England would play better with Fin starting, but I can understand why that will not happen soon. Regarding Murley,, he did make some howlers, I never heard why was Sleighthome dropped?
Why can you understand why it will not happen soon? Marcus Smith is doing a terrible job of getting the best out of the players around him which for me is the primary job of the 10. He had a genuinely poor game yesterday for all bar the first 20 and showed again that he's not a FB. Were building a team around an individual and it's clearly not working. That his competition already plays with up to half of the backs likely to start if all are fit should make picking him a no-brainer.
murley probably needs to start though, any other winger will be outpaced too easily, Borthwick might bring in Radwan now he plays for his favourite club
If Steward can continually miss bread and butter fullback tackles, Murley can be re-selected after his 2 errors vs Ireland. Besides those two moments of madness, he was excellent in attack and defence but fans will be quick forget that because of the result.
Love your stuff! Do you really think it's Genge's job to convince the ref? Also I heard little about how poor the ref was in terms of impartiality/consistency.
Unfair to rate players when they play a doomed strategy. A physically exhausting strategy of kicking and chasing and highline defence leaves England exposed to strong attacking sides in second half / last quarter. Problem compounded by playing 3 no.7s and consequent lineout failings. Srategy of kick chase yielded little. The result is a team with exhausted defence and not scoring enough points to win. Progress is needed in strategy and coaching not from the valiant players.
I would change murley for Sleightholme start Martin chessum and Willis dont Put smith at full back .Steward apart from sidestep overlaps for Tigers make him do same at international level.On yhe hour some players ran out of gas .Slade and Lawrence worked for once need more offloads .
Reading the comments, I find many of them ridiculous. The often stated 'fact' that England should be world beaters because of player depth is a myth. The premiership is teetering on the edge of financial oblivion. Compared to France and Ireland there is no money to create depth in the premiership teams. This has a predictable knock on effect for England. The best players are overworked, struggle to stay fresh and always carrying injuries. This is a structural problem and, while it remains true, England will continue to struggle.
A woman at the Test asked me do I think Leinster could actually beat England and she was Irish, I said yes I do believe they could. But she also thought that England were much fitter than Ireland and Ireland would be thrashed at half time, She in her ignorance had no idea that the Irish team was 98% Leinster. Maro Itoje questioned before the test, how hard it would be to face a Leinster dominant team, because cohesion is a huge benefit as England use to do when they were Saracen dominant.
Agree. I don't think that's a big call in a similar way prime Saracens could probably have beaten most of the 6 Nations teams you could have fielded against them. The value of familiarity of game plan and personnel that you get from a club team that plays together (which lets not forget is what teams like Ireland, Scotland and Italy are to a large part) is invaluable. It's why having a club lineout spine 2, caller, jumper is valuable. Or why you'd play a club 9 and 10 (and 15) together if you could ... well you would if you were a semi competent coach.
I think this is a decent assessment, what was so good about the Curries was that they kept Tadgh Beirne and Josh Van der Flier quiet for a lot of the game.(a bit task) In fact the Irish pack didnt gain parity till well into the 2nd half. If you give Jamieson GP the man of the match, then you have to look at his opposite no as to why he had such a good game. James Lowe had to have run him close though. He exploited weaknesses on Englands right but then very smartly hit a fantastic gap tight (which the Aussies did twice in the Autumn,) showing Genge's tackling there isnt what it should be. The Irish cant start that slow against Scotland or France though, better teams than England will punish them. But I think they'll be more up for those matches.. Im English and if I were picking the Lions squad today, only Tom Curry and Maro would be thought about from England, the rest would be Irish and Scots with Tommy Reffel from Wales
Recall when England used to run from fullback:- Josh Lewsey, Jason Robinson, Mike Brown. That seemed to be a good idea at the time. New Zealand play it very well. Do you think we could reinvent it? We can all recall the great fullbacks from the history of the development of the game, starting back in the 70’s, let’s reinvent it and run the ball back at the opposition, linking in with back row and wingers.
@expressoevangelism80 Could be the Gallagher Premiership. The pace, hits and size in Top 14 is much greater. The French teams are tearing up the Champions Cup. We have to level up, but we can't attract similar talent and therefore don't have a marker to compete against. Not saying we are bad, just not as competitive as we are stuck in the equivalent of a rugby echo chamber. Thoughts?
@ Money. The game is very much 2nd fiddle to the FA. Certainly top rugby players in England get good money, but the depth of resources aren’t there within the clubs. They are going bust. We haven’t signed up corrupt Russian oligarchs as yet. Any player has a short existence at the top, they have to grab what they can, when they can. We see very clearly from N.Z and France, where the money is. The game in Oz is strangling itself. The Pacific Islanders sell their talent to NZ if they are good enough. Good English players go to France, and by some peculiar reasoning, they exclude themselves from international selection. So much seems to be out of balance for the better, regarding the development of the English game. We do not need 50 old farts sitting around a table at the top end of our game. As for the frustrations of employing Steve Borthwick as manager, obviously has limitations when we recall as to why the very expensive attack coach walked away from his post.
Steward is great BUT his lack of speed when turning worries me. Murley will learn from those mistakes. Game management is the biggest worry, specially in the second half.
I agree with your selection policy. However, you could mix the back row up completely and start the subs and bench the Curry's and Earl. Chessum 6 (lineout option) CC-S 7 to smash (Meafou and co) and Willis 8 (Smash ball) Imagine bringing on the Curey twins and Earl at the 50th minute and go... Okay guys, chase the ball. Chessum could possibly go to lock if Martin is knackered. Also put Beard on the bench with Smith (not have a nine)... Or start just Beard instead of Slade 😅
I'm French (well actually half English & French) and I think if England has a great start, taking the lead quickly, it will be very difficult for France. England will focus on Jalibert's weak defense and aim at Ramos with up & unders. In two years England has really improved and playing home is very important.
I’ve never seen a call like the Itoje line out penalty. It was bizarre, even in football that would be deemed a complete farce, still struggling to see on what planet that is worth a penalty.
Yes I’m Irish, and it was exactly that, a complete farce; and given the timing, a key turning point in the match. If I was English I’d be so pssed at that. It is what it is & one has to pick oneself up .. Eng Fra will be close based on what I saw today
@denniswaites5593 No, I don't. You're implying that a single call lost the game for England, which clutches at straws mate. England where out played simple.
I said England's discipline would let them down and it really did! They were lucky to only have one man in the bin in my opinion! England's backrow was far better than ours but Jack Conan was outstanding off the bench! As was Jack Crowley and Thomas Clarkson, but Dan Sheehan is well and truly back baby! As physical as England were, Ireland were fitter and wore England down. Andrew Porter and Tadhg Beirne were absolutely outstanding! JGP deserved man of the match though!! Slowing down CCS, cover tackle on Slade and a try! Our kiwis stepped up big time!! Given how good England were, Ireland had to be brilliant to beat them and they absolutely were!! Great opening round of the 6 nations!! Feel Crowley was better than Prendergast but fairplay to Prendergast! I was nervous watching so can only imagine how nervous he was
I really like that. Perhaps overly lyrical. England were good in the first half but the Irish half time two was brilliant. Thought P’ghast struggled a little and nerves got the better of his Kicks. Crowley played brilliantly when he came in but Smith had already moved to 15 and the replacement England back row came up short I thought. Gutted to be honest. Well played Ireland……
@owenfarmer4197 great game of rugby!! England played really well but I do feel if their discipline was better they would've won that game! But an absolutely phenomenal Irish performance it has to be said! Glad you liked it!🤝👌
Pretty much agree. Thought it was a great test match and the Irish boys I watched with were far more positive about our performance than it seems English fans were.....why is that? I would however make a few more changes for next week I'd start Willis alongside Chessum and TC (if fit seemed he was carrying that hip at the end) just for extra power against the French mountains....
Good analysis. I didn't see any leadership on the pitch, trying to change things when the second half was going away. Is this a deficiency in the players or a facet of being over coached? And as you say, no impact off the bench.
Mainly agree with your ratings - I'd probably drop Earl to a 6 and boost Lawrence to an 8 but these are minor quibbles. I understand why Borthwick picked 3 7s against Ireland but I feel we need a more balanced back row against France. I'd be tempted by Hill/Chessum at 6, Tom Willis at 8 (he needs a full game to see what he can do) and a Curry at 7 with the other on the bench. I hope Murley keeps his spot, he misjudged the ball going over his head for the first mistake he made and I think that fried his brain resulting in the howler when he didn't just fall on the ball for the second mistake. I think Freeman's a fantastic player who does a lot of things right but I do wonder whether he's got the top end pace for an international winger - he reminds me a bit in that way of Mark Cueto. I don't really like a 6 - 2 split on the bench and it seems a bit pointless if you're going to play your loose head for 70+ minutes.
Without wishing to upset England supporters, I really don't get Marcus Smith at all. He's clearly got talent but other than in occasional flashes, I find his game at international level underwhelming. IMO he's more of a show pony. He's still reasonably young and has time to improve but he really needs to focus on doing what is best for his team, especially if he wants a place in the Lions squad.
Finn Smith at 10. I'll die on this hill. He should be playing with his club partner Mitchell. We are not winning games with Borthwick and Marcus together.
I'll be there with you. Mitchell, F Smith and Furbank together gives the England backs their best chance of playing in a team sport and being more than the sum of their parts or you know we could waste another 30 caps on the Marcus Smith show, like the Muppet Show but with less talent.
Great game, well done Ireland. When will Fin Smith get a start at 12? Michelle, M. Smith, F. Smith, O. Lawrence, E.Feyi-Waboso, T.Freeman, G. Furbank. If when all available
Really think Roebuck deserves a start. He’s so good in the air but I feel it’d be really unfair to Murley and would probably destroy his confidence if he were to be dropped. Also would pick Spenser over Randall on the bench. Personally think he’s more reliable and has a brilliant box kick.
Interesting video Tim. I agree with your ratings with the the following exceptions: Genge = 5.5 as he was pinged by the ref in the scrum. I thought Cowan Dickie = 5.5 his throws to the lineout were exceedingly poor. Slade = 5.5 as his defence is almost non existent. Murley = 5 Stuart =5.5 he played well in the first half but like the rest of the team, fell away in the second half. Why is Borthwick training the team to only play good rugby for 40 minutes instead of 80 minutes? I also thought Itoje should have had a team talk on the pitch to tell the team to stop giving away silly penalties and free kicks. My starting team against France would be 1= Fin Baxter 2 = Theo Dan 3 = Asher Fordjour 4 = Mario Itoje 5 = Ollie Chessum 6 = Tom Curry 7 = Ben Earl 8 = Tom Willis 9 = Raffi Quirke(if available) 10 = Marcus Smith 11 = Ollie Sleightholme 12 = Tom Freeman 13 = Ollie Lawrence 14 = Tom Roebuck 15 = Freddie Steward The bench = Ellis Genge, Cowan Dickie, Ted Hill, Joe Heyes, George Martin, Michell, Fin Smith, Cadan Murley. I was disappointed with Murley because he made some errors that would embarrass a schoolboy let alone an international player!! If England fall away against France they will lose by 30 points!!
Bring Ojomoh or another 12 in, one of Slades better games but doesn't offer enough anymore. Missed too many of his plays which just killed the attack for me, one good grubber a game isn't enough. Murley had a howler. Maybe Finn at 10 and Smith at 15 to start then Steward on the bench, won't be as much of a liability when the opponent has more tired players, Smith wouldn't have got stepped as last defender and might have attempted a tackle rather than flapping at wind as Steward does all too often. Can't keep being plucky losers in a professional game
Inconsistent performance from both sides. Great win for us, but we need to tighten things up. There are too many mistakes, handling errors Etc. Totally agree with your annalise re Tom Currie. He had a great game.
Harry Randall just isn’t an international quality 9. His skill set isn’t good enough to make up for his lack of size. Tough for England because no one is really putting their hand up behind Mitchell, but Randall just isn’t it…
@@Athorner.53 Spencer has been good for sure, but obviously already being 32 and lacking international experience, I can see why they don’t seem to trust him. Quirke could be the answer if he can stay fit….
For me you were a bit generous to Murley with the rating. I think he showed sparks of brilliance, and I love him in the prem, but he didn't just make a few mistakes, he mad a handful of unforced, schoolboy errors that gave Ireland a target to aim for, and unearned territory. I hope it's not his last time in an England shirt, but I don't think it was fair to debut him against Ireland in Dublin. I'd have gone for Roebuck, who has already shown some great stuff off the bench for England. Maybe hold Murley back for a Wales game. For me the 23 for France should look like this: 1. Genge 2. George 3. Stuart 4. Itoje 5. Martin 6. Chessum 7. T.Curry 8. Earl 9. Mitchell 10. Smith 11. Freeman 12. Slade 13. Lawrence 14. Roebuck 15. Daly 16. Dan 17. Rodd 18. Heyes 19. CCS 20. B.Curry 21. Willis 22. Quirke 23. Sleightholme Steward is great, but anytime there's a backfield break it feels like his cover defence will be beaten. Daly is in great form for Sarries, and has that experience you talked about. Can also cover wing and centre, so gives us good options, and a long distance kicking threat.
Hey Tim- thanks for all the reviews and so fast - very good, I'm not getting the relevance of players ratings, England or the Ireland ones you gave, the range is 6..5 to -8.5 so why 0-10 and , I've not added it up but seems England and Ireland are same if totaled, so doesnt reflect the game maybe. So whats the point - does it accumulate, is it about slection for next game against another player option? How are we finding it useful without maybe a history average per player? Or total/team? Dont become a statistician but whats it mean?
Ok - sorry - 5-8.5 , would be good if you tallied it - hard with minutes on field, I know but a rought tally for each team with the numbers per player. , which when I think about it would be impossible relate from game to game... ok - I dont have an answer to how to do. Ireland get 5 points from a possible 5 - ohh wait ... Great channel, thans mate, great rugby and a great win for Ireland.
I would put Tom Willis at number 8 with the Curry brothers at 6 and 7. The rest of the team stays the same. However, the bench must have much more of an impact in the last 20/30 minutes as this is the time when England became less effective. Other than reduce the penalty count I would add Ted Hill to the bench with Ben Earl.
I know it’s a risk but next week I’d play Marcus at 15. Steward could he really badly exposed by Bielle-Biarrey and Attissogbe. They are absolutely rapid but also have that ability to turn on a sixpence, something Steward is notoriously not exactly the greatest at.
Do you remember last years 6 Nations? It was the one with Marcus Smith at FB where it was clear to most that he should never be played at FB against a decent team as he had an absolute mare ... Steward isn't the answer but neither is replacing him with another player who isn't good enough in that position. Both Freeman and Roebuck have played there and Id suggest are better options.
@ mate I’m just envisioning Steward being the last man in defence and getting his ankles broken by Attissogbe or LBB. Marcus is the only other alternative option. Freeman potentially but he’s only ever played 15 for England vs the Barbarians.
I liked our team overall. I liked the way we played. This could have gone the other way with another official. Itoje was excellent, but he got right up O’Keefe’s nose which cost us, with some justification to be fair. Wing needs sorting. When the ref says he will “yellow card any afters” and then doesn’t when Lowe started sh1t (again) we don’t have a standard. No fault on Lowe, he was excellent.
Is it always right to make all the replacements after 60 minutes? I know Eddie Jones seemed to make it mandatory, but is it always right from now on? Surely a fit player ought to be able to play a full game.
Do not understand swapping out 9 & 10 at the same time… worse moving Marcus to 15, he’s not a natural full back and it showed, they lost structure then,,, and the game.
The tight five were 7.5 to 8. The loosies combo didn't work. The back 3 are not of international class. Same old story England. Sorry Tim, smiths missed tackle, cost a try.
Been saying that for a while. He does some good things in the loose but is not good at his day job. Also opposition teams target him as his tackling around the fringes is horrible. Decent player but a little overrated.
@@kevinpillay6103 He was asleep at ruck guard for a break that lead to the try. Same thing happened twice in the AIs. Some players are just very slow to learn. Ditto chopsing away to his opposite number and the referee rather than focusing on his actual scrummaging. You'd think that since being schooled by Fasogbon he's have smartened up but no.
@@EggchasersRugby Throwing out a hypothetical… We need a mutant to either start or replace him. Genge off the bench, I think helps the impact you’re looking for from a sub - even use him like Eddie did in France (Kick Return option)
Cadan Murley - 3. If he can't remember basic laws in an international match, why is he there? Sleightholme did nothing wrong and was dropped. Murley should be the next Hassell-Collins
I was VERY critical of the selection of Tom Curry and of Henry Slade - but I have to concede, both had their best games in a long time!!
Well done to both.
@@mikegray8776 Love Island has finished so Sladey boy can give rugby 100% of his attention now 😅
Slade ?? What did he achieve attacking-wise ??
@ Well he assisted the first try with a gorgeous grubber and his silky hands nearly put us away for another 😊
I've noticed that English club teams,as a general unit,tend to blowout around the 55-60minute mark ,in euro cup games. England were similar,yesterday. Are the players overloaded in the English prem? I think it might be a contributing factor. England were more than a match for us up to that point.
As an Irish man,have to admit,the Curry brothers were sensational yesterday . They gave everything they had,and more.
Lawrence best game for england imo nassive hits great lines and offloads
Agree was excellent today
He was brilliant and had improved so much over the past year, really exciting player now and so physical 🔥
Ben Earl roaring,screeching and gumshield hanging from his mouth totally overrated by England fans
@@neillscannell9278 watch the game dont watch his mouth.
@@neillscannell9278 englands best player last 6 nations , plays 7 for his club though
Irish fan.. England don’t kick so much. You have the skill and players to do a lot more positives. Great win for Ireland.
They always will under Borthwick. No ambition.
@@speak_your_truth. It's been going on for YEARS. So frustrating to watch. And I think the points made here about selling ourselves short in the lineout are spot on.
I like Freddie Stewart love a full back who dominates the air but if I was an England fan I'd be getting worried about the list of highlight reels for other players he's on, mostly making him look silly with steps it seems to grow every few weeks
He turns like a tank unfortunately.
@@onlookervb he offers nothing other than high ball catching. He’d be slow for a forward
You're bang on with this. I'm Irish and I love seeing his name on a team sheet
Milk turns quicker than Steward
@Daniboi971 I used to say he was slow, too. But, to be fair, his running and attacking has really improved. Overall, he's a better player now than when everyone thought he was God's gift and was locked-in for 10 yrs.
Interesting comment about England being out on their feet. I reckon they put in so much into properly competing against a world class side, their knackeredness was surely inevitable. The Irish are total beasts...and the French will also be one hell of a challenge- they looked massive against Wales last night!
@@starmersbarber it’s our line speed as well. It’s knackering playing like that
@danniboi971 - Fair assessment that the rush defence on every occasion is going to tire the team and surely the coaching staff know this, BUT then there has to be either fitness or strategy changes to counter the issue!!
In the last ¼ most of the players were knackered, including the Irish, but the Irish were better at managing it.
Ireland bench also outplayed England's bench.
Agree. England need to work on their fitness
@@glentweedie602 you noticed how many coaches we go through? The current D coach is a second division french league coach….
Cymru was a training match, Ireland vs Francais will be speical.....
I love ben earl and obviously think he’s great but I think he might be even better as an impact sub off the bench against tired legs, give tom willis the starting number 8 jersey because then he can really get into the game from the off and show his premiership form
@@jamzy24 Horses for courses.
I see Willis getting a start soon with CCS starting. Underhill back in and Chessum coming back up to form, we have options.
Both Currys impressed me with their activity today busy everywhere.
Mitchell's kicking off ruck was quality today but made lot of mistakes in defense. I still think Furbank is your best 15 when fit I think he has much better back field awareness and defense positioning.
I didn’t rate Mitchell today, few bad decisions and flaping around at Lowe’s man bun was unforgivable
@@InsanelyIrish missed furbank and manni big time.
Agree except we're wedded to this dumb idea that we play Marcus Smith with Mitchell and Furbank and then bring Fin Smith on late and at a stage where we sub Micthell and Furbank and move Marcus Smith to FB. It's just such an obvious way to increase team cohesion to reverse that.
I’m very happy for Murley. And I hope he is given time to grow at this level. Everytime he got the ball he made metres, worked so hard in making sure we had good ball. And his try and assist were great; equally his mistakes were big but few. His numbers are comparable to LBB from France in terms of metres carried, tackles and beat three defenders compared to LBB’s 5.
Our organisation cost us that game, not mistakes. Marcus Smith moving to fullback wasn’t what the game needed, Randall wasn’t either. What’s the point of tactical flexibility if your changes were pre determined?
This is a joke right? Hopefully we don’t see murley in an England shirt again
@ Rugby is a team game, no one on the England side covered themselves in glory. Yes Murley made mistakes, but they’re clearly down to nerves. And when he got the ball he made metres, scored a try, and assisted one off of Lawrence’s back.
So no I’m not making a joke, it was a good performance underneath the media microscope; but he can and will get better, having watched him at Quins over the last 3 years I know he’s capable of being better
Murley also looks good in Prem ball in hand. However, in defense at Prem and now test match level (albeit 1 game) he struggles. He made 2 critical errors that took a toll on England. When you give teams that sort of position in what was a tight game? It means even if Ire don't score, more tackles and energy are expended defending. Lad can get better but he needs to work on his defense big time.
Steward is a supertanker, good at one thing but turning circle of half a mile.
I agree that the Twindaloos were superb. It takes quite some performance to get amongst these irish boys.
From an irish fan, England have destructive ball carriers, demonstrated again today in first 20 minutes. So their commitment to kicking away attacking ball - led by Smith and Slade - is so strange to watch. They'll do the same thing against Scotland, Italy etc. Feel like this must be contributing to the continued sense that this team is underperforming with the talent they have.
It's a modern tactic. South Africa and some others have proved that the team with the lowest possession often wins with a good defence and clinical opportunitistic finishing.
What ya think of them apples 😂😂
Totally agree. They look great when they run it but usually choose to kick. Case in point when Steward fielded an Irish kick he ran it back only for Smith to kick it back to Ireland on the next phase. Made no sense. They looked better ball in hand first ten and last ten.
@ That's a dated stat. Eddie Jones banged on about it. The top four teams in the world all have diametrically opposed game plans. England kicked more than all of them in the 2023 RWC.
Some attacking kicking is a necessity but when England can win gainline (an area Ireland can struggle sometimes), I believe they lose a lot of momentum and cough up opportunities for points.
Also if the above logic followed, they'd want to be very low on defensive penalties, but that's never been a strength for this modern England team.
In my opinion.
No ambition.
@@bybdy maybe the rule changes of last year might have changed all that.
If IF we Ireland can beat Scotland next week then it's the French maestros the week after.
I think they will beat us but it should be an absolute corker of a match.
And possibly getting beat by rugby of the calibre of Duponts rugby will feel less crushing as you reflect on how exactly did he do that.
Dupont is a force an exception to any rule he is wonderful.
We seem to be the only team in the 6 nations still obsessed with this constant kicking game ala Eddie jones. It was clear early on Ireland were winning most of the knockdowns, and they are too good a side to give them back possession constantly, especially when you see they are starting to get round the blitz etc. It’s makes our rugby so painful to watch. Ironically the tries we scored came when we didn’t kick it and actually looked dangerous running it
There's nothing wrong with good kicking. What kills teams is bad kicking. We kicked badly - you need to learn the difference. The Red Roses are world no.1 and everyone emjoys their matches - they kick the most out of all women's teams.
England scored the 1st try from bad Irish kicking ..... and England done the same there after was a great game 1st half Belonged the the Crown just werent clinical
Just in from the game, was worried at half time, thought Englands blitz defence worked very well but they tired noticeably after 50 minutes. The losing bonus point could be very important at the end.
Agree on both counts
As an I.F. I'm glad we have England out of the way so early in the 6N, England are only going to get better!
Agree totally
Don’t agree there chum. England are not hitting the rite notes in any order. Just not good enough. Obviously the players are giving more than 100% have coming off early but not sense of being dangerous to play against. I would be rubbing my hands to play them were I an internationally talented player. I’m not.
England might get better, but I think Ireland will also get better, so, honestly, I don't think it matters at all when we play England in the schedule.
Based on what ?? There's no evidence for that in yesterdays, or last years performances
What I love about the Ben Curry performance is that it was in front of Eddie Jones.
What redemption and a massive middle finger.
I might have missed this but I always think it's helpful to refer to what your rating scale is.
eg for me 5 is a totally balanced performance. Contributed but not overall a huge plus or minus. 6 would be starting to make an overall positive performance. 10 would be a performance that we'll be speaking about in a years time and 9 a match-defining one.
Normally the person I feel was an 8 is the MotM.
Anything below 3 asks questions about whether that person should have been picked OR they made one or more very significant mistakes. Match losing in the same way as a 9 is acknowledgement of match defining.
I also like to mark against a basic understanding of the quality of the opposition.
So a 9 against the best French team would maybe be a 7 against a weak Welsh one with essentially the same performance.
Scotland fan here. Just an observation, but is England's size of player pool and number of clubs in the Gallagher perhaps muddying the waters, and causing a lack of cohesion in the team? I ask because the French team is largely comprised of Toulouse and UBB players, Scotland from its two pro sides and Ireland from 3 of the 4 Provinces (only 1 Ulster player in R1) Can England really expect to gel as a team in the brief window before the 6N, given their players are drawn from so many clubs? No agenda, just wondering if there is an issue with selecting individuals instead of proven club combinations ...?
when every player was from saracens pretty much, england were winning the 6 nations easily and making wc finals, so that point does make sense
Totally agree, well
Made observation
Steve hates picking players that don’t or haven’t played for sarries or tigers and god forbid he ever makes a captain out of a quins or west country player
it’s more a case we just don’t have very good players in key positions. For example our centres are the worst of any top 10 nation.
China has a bigger player pool
!!
One phase and kick regardless of position on field is killing England's attack, out of all those kicks we had one that resulted in a try. We have so much talent and its getting wasted with miss poor management. Wigglesworth without a doubt is the worst attacking coach I've ever seen and it makes sense since all he did was kick the ball away when he played. A good example was France yesterday creating phases and space to kick into rather than allowing defence to set. The last 5-10mins England kept ball in hand we need to do that more.
What went wrong for England?
1) Most starters visibly tired after 55 mins
2) NO bench players ADDED anything, with the sole exception of Willis - who tried really hard.
3) Nightmare shifts from Murley & Mitchell defensively. Both were v good offensively.
4) Borthwick has ZERO attacking strategy - he relies on Marcus totally
5) Lineouts were horrible. LCD is a liability with consistent inaccuracy.
6) Steward is the world’s easiest FB to ‘step’, and provides little attack-wise
Agree on murley was absolutely shocking . Think the ref had a hand in changing the momentum with very marginal calls . The rest were not so bad and looked very good for periods of the game .
LCD is an upgrade on Jamie George 100%. Far more physical and dynamic, plus only really had the one errant throw.
Firm disagree with Murley. Outside of those two howlers over the dead ball line, he was excellent. Made a lot of tackles and added to the England attack.
@@fraserposford144 nah his defensive positioning was hard to watch. Not up to scratch
@@fraserposford144 I think I said, he was jittery defensively but had a good game going forward.
Both of which I stand by - and nothing there that PROPER COACHING could not put right.
But -since Fat Bill Sweeney and the blazers, seem utterly unconcerned - that’s clearly not going to happen, and Borewick will probably bin Murley …. which is the wrong call, whilst both Feyi and Ibitoye are crocked.
Fantastic assessments as always Tim. One suggestion re player ratings: in a game of two very different halves it might be more insightful to rate per half and then total.
As an England fan I've been in a slump of not caring about the result but just wanting a good game to watch. I thought it was. Some interesting calls but that's the game. Too many penalties and itoje being part of that doesn't help as him captain.
Let's not start a blame game as us Kiwis are good at.
Itogy is too immature to be captain.
Harsh on Maro. That line out penalty was really brutal and unfair.
As an Ireland fan curry was man of the match
@@shanemcdonagh1979 ❤️
Big fan of the channel, Tim. Respectfully, i think you've overlooked LCD's defensive effort. We were backs against the wall a few times in the first half and ireland came away with nothing.
England are playing well but they have a problem I haven't seen people talking about. Rugby is inevitably a game of highs and lows and England can capitalise on their highs, but just can't minimise their lows. They need to devise and strategy (but most importantly grit) to pull themselves out of a momentum slump and turn the game around, not just wait for the other team to lose their momentum naturally.
We really missed Feyi-Waboso - he is a very young guy who has excellent positional and arial skills, unlike Murley, who was simply exposed by Ireland, who targeted him successfully. He shouldn’t play for England again until he proves he has sorted his issues with kicks. I agree Randall isn’t up to the standard and I think Spencer should have started anyway. He is physically more powerful aswell. I would love to see Quirk fit and back playing for England. Also Freeman isn’t quite a winger for me - he’s too slow - he’d be better at outside centre. Steward also is too weak in defence. The pack did ok, but need to give away fewer penalties, though England were unlucky at crucial moments in this game. It’s in the backs where England have more issues - they need Feyi-Waboso and Fairbanks back to get them up to last year’s level. I also prefer Sleighthome to Murley, though I understand he’s injured. Ireland were the better team, but England have potential still.
The same Cadan Marley that England fans have been screaming for for years? One game against arguably the best team in the NH, and you just want to drop him?
Love this channel and the analysis you provide, on the dropping Murley point I’d put him on the bench that may be harsh but he’s been exposed under pressure. I’m really uncertain about Randall he’s had enough chances for me when will we see Quirke that lads electric
Fair scores. I dont know if you saw but On the Love of Rugby pod they pointed out that at least one of the Murley 'error' he actually touched it so didnt think he could touch it down which is why he ran it out. Not sure but if true that increases his rating considerably. The Curry's were immense, but we missed our lineout weapon. Willis was disappointing, but maybe strat him at 8 with Earl coming on?
Englands defence is what kept them in the game 😊
The failings were in attack. Persisted with kicks and lost possession and then exhausted by counterattack.
Tom Curry: Excellent. Himself reminds me of the bane of seeing and hearing Lewis Moody's name being on an English team announcement. Fierce, Brave, Ruthless, "Loopycidal".
Strongly disagree on the Marcus Smith front, he was incredibly quiet in the 2nd half until Fin came on and he went to fullback. Scored two tries in that configuration didnt we?
Ireland let their foot off the gas once the game was won
The 2 late tries are irrelevant , if the game was in the balance, it's unlikely Ireland would have been so lackse.
Hi Tim, love your vids mate and wishing you every success. I comment mostly only on your you tube videos of all the content creators on UA-cam I watch. I am eager to see your videos and squidge. I am big into heuristics and biases and have made similar comments on some of your videos , mainly on ref decision making and ref calls. I looked at this video last night and watched your Irish player rating this morning, went back to watch this video to check you weren’t biased as an English fan, not to be a dick but to point out any potential bias. I was happy to find your scoring of both teams was consistent. I happily found it was. Well done Tim! ps also I hope you get to Australia for the British and Lions tour. Is there any other way for your followers to sponsor you? Pss. I watch two cents for the southern hemisphere view. Pss. Your assessment of the impact of the bench was spot on. England are tracking nicely. Johnny Wilkinson made some great points in post match commentary about England, that they need to be rock solid and consistent on the basics/defence and the creativity will come. BOD also made a similar point in that England need to become more of an 80minute team. From an Irish and Munsterman.
Ben Spencer has been pretty hard done by
Agree a lot with that. Though the backline is still a collective issue. Dropping Murley feels harsh. I’d consider Roebuck for Freeman. Steward unfortunately locked in as there are no mega obvious replacements. Prop replacement a shambles. Surprised that wasn’t covered. Giving bench props 10 mins is pointless. May as well have Asher on the bench. He’s not quite ready but his ceiling is comfortably higher than Heyes and Stuart. If you want bench impact Rodd has to be on the bench too. Don’t know if Quirke is fit, if not Spencer offers more control. Randall clearly not up to it at this level as he’s shown time and time again.
Hey, tim, love the video will you be doing one for ireland
Irish fan . Imo as good as their kicking was , i felt their was too much kicking . Imo curry was man of the match . Fair play England, can see your improvements
Tim I suggest that you do a players rating on how well they performed in what has become two key aspects of the game - spitting and nasal clearance. Not sure the science behind these two skills, but is not a great advert for the game.
I’m so happy that the curry’s made a lot of people surprised of them playing together but being a sale fan watching them every week this is just a normal performance from them and I hope that it’s made all those people in the comments realise how good they are! Despite the result I think it was a good performance by England, attacking wise we didn’t offer too much in the second half and it didn’t help there were a few calls that didn’t fall our way but the team did alright few things to improve of course.
I agree with most of your marks, I didnt expect England to play as well as they did in the First half, Itoje got on the wrong side of the Ref and some media streams say he stamped on an Irish player.
To defend Fin Smith, Ireland had gained momentum way before Fin came on, he came on with 16 mins to go and then Marcus moved to full back, by that time Ireland had scored 3 tries. Personally I think England would play better with Fin starting, but I can understand why that will not happen soon.
Regarding Murley,, he did make some howlers, I never heard why was Sleighthome dropped?
england did score more tries with f smith at 10 than m smith at 10
Sleightholme not really dropped. Did his hamstring a few weeks ago
Why can you understand why it will not happen soon?
Marcus Smith is doing a terrible job of getting the best out of the players around him which for me is the primary job of the 10. He had a genuinely poor game yesterday for all bar the first 20 and showed again that he's not a FB.
Were building a team around an individual and it's clearly not working. That his competition already plays with up to half of the backs likely to start if all are fit should make picking him a no-brainer.
The curry’s were brilliant.
Murley obviously has so much potential needs to revise goal line rules haha but deserves a second showing.
TBH if Murley starts against France, they will destroy him.
Those mistakes have put a real target on his back.
Borthwick won't drop him to prove a point. Stubborn coach
murley probably needs to start though, any other winger will be outpaced too easily, Borthwick might bring in Radwan now he plays for his favourite club
If Steward can continually miss bread and butter fullback tackles, Murley can be re-selected after his 2 errors vs Ireland. Besides those two moments of madness, he was excellent in attack and defence but fans will be quick forget that because of the result.
Love your stuff! Do you really think it's Genge's job to convince the ref? Also I heard little about how poor the ref was in terms of impartiality/consistency.
Unfair to rate players when they play a doomed strategy. A physically exhausting strategy of kicking and chasing and highline defence leaves England exposed to strong attacking sides in second half / last quarter. Problem compounded by playing 3 no.7s and consequent lineout failings. Srategy of kick chase yielded little. The result is a team with exhausted defence and not scoring enough points to win. Progress is needed in strategy and coaching not from the valiant players.
England destroyed by 3 kiwis, Lowe, Gibson park, and the ref 🇳🇿
Four kiwis- Aki
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I would change murley for Sleightholme start Martin chessum and Willis dont Put smith at full back .Steward apart from sidestep overlaps for Tigers make him do same at international level.On yhe hour some players ran out of gas .Slade and Lawrence worked for once need more offloads .
Reading the comments, I find many of them ridiculous. The often stated 'fact' that England should be world beaters because of player depth is a myth. The premiership is teetering on the edge of financial oblivion. Compared to France and Ireland there is no money to create depth in the premiership teams. This has a predictable knock on effect for England. The best players are overworked, struggle to stay fresh and always carrying injuries. This is a structural problem and, while it remains true, England will continue to struggle.
A woman at the Test asked me do I think Leinster could actually beat England and she was Irish, I said yes I do believe they could. But she also thought that England were much fitter than Ireland and Ireland would be thrashed at half time, She in her ignorance had no idea that the Irish team was 98% Leinster. Maro Itoje questioned before the test, how hard it would be to face a Leinster dominant team, because cohesion is a huge benefit as England use to do when they were Saracen dominant.
Leinster would beat Ireland most likely.
Agree.
I don't think that's a big call in a similar way prime Saracens could probably have beaten most of the 6 Nations teams you could have fielded against them.
The value of familiarity of game plan and personnel that you get from a club team that plays together (which lets not forget is what teams like Ireland, Scotland and Italy are to a large part) is invaluable.
It's why having a club lineout spine 2, caller, jumper is valuable. Or why you'd play a club 9 and 10 (and 15) together if you could ... well you would if you were a semi competent coach.
I think this is a decent assessment, what was so good about the Curries was that they kept Tadgh Beirne and Josh Van der Flier quiet for a lot of the game.(a bit task) In fact the Irish pack didnt gain parity till well into the 2nd half. If you give Jamieson GP the man of the match, then you have to look at his opposite no as to why he had such a good game. James Lowe had to have run him close though. He exploited weaknesses on Englands right but then very smartly hit a fantastic gap tight (which the Aussies did twice in the Autumn,) showing Genge's tackling there isnt what it should be. The Irish cant start that slow against Scotland or France though, better teams than England will punish them. But I think they'll be more up for those matches.. Im English and if I were picking the Lions squad today, only Tom Curry and Maro would be thought about from England, the rest would be Irish and Scots with Tommy Reffel from Wales
agreed Chessum for lineout and carries should start
Recall when England used to run from fullback:- Josh Lewsey, Jason Robinson, Mike Brown.
That seemed to be a good idea at the time. New Zealand play it very well. Do you think we could reinvent it?
We can all recall the great fullbacks from the history of the development of the game, starting back in the 70’s, let’s reinvent it and run the ball back at the opposition, linking in with back row and wingers.
Not fit enough, maybe? We only manage 60 minutes at the moment before we collapse mentally and physically.
@ They seem to spend their lives in match play situations, getting fit and eating mountains of food. They should be fit. It’s their job to be fit.
@expressoevangelism80 Could be the Gallagher Premiership. The pace, hits and size in Top 14 is much greater. The French teams are tearing up the Champions Cup. We have to level up, but we can't attract similar talent and therefore don't have a marker to compete against. Not saying we are bad, just not as competitive as we are stuck in the equivalent of a rugby echo chamber. Thoughts?
@ Money.
The game is very much 2nd fiddle to the FA. Certainly top rugby players in England get good money, but the depth of resources aren’t there within the clubs. They are going bust. We haven’t signed up corrupt Russian oligarchs as yet.
Any player has a short existence at the top, they have to grab what they can, when they can.
We see very clearly from N.Z and France, where the money is. The game in Oz is strangling itself. The Pacific Islanders sell their talent to NZ if they are good enough.
Good English players go to France, and by some peculiar reasoning, they exclude themselves from international selection.
So much seems to be out of balance for the better, regarding the development of the English game.
We do not need 50 old farts sitting around a table at the top end of our game. As for the frustrations of employing Steve Borthwick as manager, obviously has limitations when we recall as to why the very expensive attack coach walked away from his post.
Steward is great BUT his lack of speed when turning worries me. Murley will learn from those mistakes. Game management is the biggest worry, specially in the second half.
Tom Curry... absolutely agree. What a warrior
I agree with your selection policy. However, you could mix the back row up completely and start the subs and bench the Curry's and Earl.
Chessum 6 (lineout option) CC-S 7 to smash (Meafou and co) and Willis 8 (Smash ball)
Imagine bringing on the Curey twins and Earl at the 50th minute and go... Okay guys, chase the ball.
Chessum could possibly go to lock if Martin is knackered.
Also put Beard on the bench with Smith (not have a nine)... Or start just Beard instead of Slade 😅
I'm French (well actually half English & French) and I think if England has a great start, taking the lead quickly, it will be very difficult for France. England will focus on Jalibert's weak defense and aim at Ramos with up & unders. In two years England has really improved and playing home is very important.
I’ve never seen a call like the Itoje line out penalty. It was bizarre, even in football that would be deemed a complete farce, still struggling to see on what planet that is worth a penalty.
Yes I’m Irish, and it was exactly that, a complete farce; and given the timing, a key turning point in the match. If I was English I’d be so pssed at that. It is what it is & one has to pick oneself up .. Eng Fra will be close based on what I saw today
@@danielgriffin9431
It was not a turning point, ffs!
England's defensive woes cost them the game and silly basic errors. Not one isolated call. 😢
@@nepiahemopo1702 not a turning point? England went from an attacking situation to a kicked penalty and you don't class that as a turning point!
@denniswaites5593 No, I don't. You're implying that a single call lost the game for England, which clutches at straws mate. England where out played simple.
@@nepiahemopo1702thats not true . The games momentum especially at the highest levels is from the whistle from the ref .
I said England's discipline would let them down and it really did! They were lucky to only have one man in the bin in my opinion! England's backrow was far better than ours but Jack Conan was outstanding off the bench! As was Jack Crowley and Thomas Clarkson, but Dan Sheehan is well and truly back baby! As physical as England were, Ireland were fitter and wore England down. Andrew Porter and Tadhg Beirne were absolutely outstanding! JGP deserved man of the match though!! Slowing down CCS, cover tackle on Slade and a try! Our kiwis stepped up big time!! Given how good England were, Ireland had to be brilliant to beat them and they absolutely were!! Great opening round of the 6 nations!! Feel Crowley was better than Prendergast but fairplay to Prendergast! I was nervous watching so can only imagine how nervous he was
I really like that.
Perhaps overly lyrical. England were good in the first half but the Irish half time two was brilliant. Thought P’ghast struggled a little and nerves got the better of his Kicks. Crowley played brilliantly when he came in but Smith had already moved to 15 and the replacement England back row came up short I thought. Gutted to be honest.
Well played Ireland……
@owenfarmer4197 great game of rugby!! England played really well but I do feel if their discipline was better they would've won that game! But an absolutely phenomenal Irish performance it has to be said! Glad you liked it!🤝👌
Hard working man
Pretty much agree. Thought it was a great test match and the Irish boys I watched with were far more positive about our performance than it seems English fans were.....why is that? I would however make a few more changes for next week I'd start Willis alongside Chessum and TC (if fit seemed he was carrying that hip at the end) just for extra power against the French mountains....
Good analysis. I didn't see any leadership on the pitch, trying to change things when the second half was going away. Is this a deficiency in the players or a facet of being over coached? And as you say, no impact off the bench.
Mainly agree with your ratings - I'd probably drop Earl to a 6 and boost Lawrence to an 8 but these are minor quibbles.
I understand why Borthwick picked 3 7s against Ireland but I feel we need a more balanced back row against France. I'd be tempted by Hill/Chessum at 6, Tom Willis at 8 (he needs a full game to see what he can do) and a Curry at 7 with the other on the bench.
I hope Murley keeps his spot, he misjudged the ball going over his head for the first mistake he made and I think that fried his brain resulting in the howler when he didn't just fall on the ball for the second mistake.
I think Freeman's a fantastic player who does a lot of things right but I do wonder whether he's got the top end pace for an international winger - he reminds me a bit in that way of Mark Cueto.
I don't really like a 6 - 2 split on the bench and it seems a bit pointless if you're going to play your loose head for 70+ minutes.
Tim you should do rating for scrum, backline, breakdowns, lineouts, scrums etc.. that would be interesting
Tom Curry was an absolute warrior yesterday. His brother not far behind.
Randall is lucky to get a 5
Without wishing to upset England supporters, I really don't get Marcus Smith at all. He's clearly got talent but other than in occasional flashes, I find his game at international level underwhelming. IMO he's more of a show pony. He's still reasonably young and has time to improve but he really needs to focus on doing what is best for his team, especially if he wants a place in the Lions squad.
Finn Smith at 10. I'll die on this hill. He should be playing with his club partner Mitchell. We are not winning games with Borthwick and Marcus together.
I'll be there with you. Mitchell, F Smith and Furbank together gives the England backs their best chance of playing in a team sport and being more than the sum of their parts or you know we could waste another 30 caps on the Marcus Smith show, like the Muppet Show but with less talent.
Great game, well done Ireland. When will Fin Smith get a start at 12? Michelle, M. Smith, F. Smith, O. Lawrence, E.Feyi-Waboso, T.Freeman, G. Furbank. If when all available
Really think Roebuck deserves a start. He’s so good in the air but I feel it’d be really unfair to Murley and would probably destroy his confidence if he were to be dropped. Also would pick Spenser over Randall on the bench. Personally think he’s more reliable and has a brilliant box kick.
Move Marcus Smith and Murley onto the bench. That's where they should be and it would mean a Quins connection when they came on.
@ who starts at 10 then, Ford or Fin Smith?
Hi Tim , love the channel. Id be very interested to see an Ireland player rating 🙏🏻
Interesting video Tim. I agree with your ratings with the the following exceptions: Genge = 5.5 as he was pinged by the ref in the scrum. I thought Cowan Dickie = 5.5 his throws to the lineout were exceedingly poor. Slade = 5.5 as his defence is almost non existent. Murley = 5 Stuart =5.5 he played well in the first half but like the rest of the team, fell away in the second half. Why is Borthwick training the team to only play good rugby for 40 minutes instead of 80 minutes? I also thought Itoje should have had a team talk on the pitch to tell the team to stop giving away silly penalties and free kicks. My starting team against France would be 1= Fin Baxter 2 = Theo Dan 3 = Asher Fordjour 4 = Mario Itoje 5 = Ollie Chessum 6 = Tom Curry 7 = Ben Earl 8 = Tom Willis 9 = Raffi Quirke(if available) 10 = Marcus Smith 11 = Ollie Sleightholme 12 = Tom Freeman 13 = Ollie Lawrence 14 = Tom Roebuck 15 = Freddie Steward The bench = Ellis Genge, Cowan Dickie, Ted Hill, Joe Heyes, George Martin, Michell, Fin Smith, Cadan Murley. I was disappointed with Murley because he made some errors that would embarrass a schoolboy let alone an international player!! If England fall away against France they will lose by 30 points!!
What’s with the Freddie Krueger jumper Tim ?
I agree about England needing to kick the ball into touch, France have always been good at running the ball back so keeping it in could be dangerous.
Harry Randall was an O. This guy needs to go back to first 15 rugby.
Your right Ben is a 7 & should play there. England need to keep it simple, and play players in the position they are used to.
Lawrence close to a 9. I watched the second half again yesterday and he was aggressive, deft and accurate.
Is why Im subscribed, ur un biased blunt analysis cant be beat remember England has a RWC ,IRELAND HAS 1/4 finals painful but true !!!
Bring Ojomoh or another 12 in, one of Slades better games but doesn't offer enough anymore. Missed too many of his plays which just killed the attack for me, one good grubber a game isn't enough. Murley had a howler. Maybe Finn at 10 and Smith at 15 to start then Steward on the bench, won't be as much of a liability when the opponent has more tired players, Smith wouldn't have got stepped as last defender and might have attempted a tackle rather than flapping at wind as Steward does all too often.
Can't keep being plucky losers in a professional game
This would be my team -
1) Genge
2) George
3) Stewart
4) Itoje
5) Martin
6) T.Curry
7) B.Curry
8) T.Willis
9) Mitchell
10) Smith
11) Murley
12) Laurence
13) Beard
14) Roebuck
15) Steward
16) LCD
17) Rodd
18) Opoku-Fordjour
19) Chessum
20) C.South
21) Hill
22) Quirke
23) Slade/Freeman
I think Ben was better than Tom while he was on the pitch. Great coverage Tim already longing for next weekend
Inconsistent performance from both sides. Great win for us, but we need to tighten things up. There are too many mistakes, handling errors Etc. Totally agree with your annalise re Tom Currie. He had a great game.
I think they should have started Sleighthome for Ireland/France/Scotland and tactically blooded Murley against Azzuri and Wales
Is he fit? I thought he still had a knock.
@ Oh damn, you may be right there. I hadn’t heard anything but that would make sense👍
Harry Randall just isn’t an international quality 9. His skill set isn’t good enough to make up for his lack of size. Tough for England because no one is really putting their hand up behind Mitchell, but Randall just isn’t it…
raffi quirke is probably closest to mitchell, spencer as well
I agree Randall isn’t good enough
@@Athorner.53 Spencer has been good for sure, but obviously already being 32 and lacking international experience, I can see why they don’t seem to trust him.
Quirke could be the answer if he can stay fit….
@@Athorner.53 agree is he stayed fit would have 30 caps by now.
@@blueboy1788 apparently borthwick doesn't rate him, hes just been taken out of the 36 man squad
The backrow selection shows , not losing was the priority ,
What's happened to Sleighthome? Is he injured? I thought he did pretty well when picked.
For me you were a bit generous to Murley with the rating. I think he showed sparks of brilliance, and I love him in the prem, but he didn't just make a few mistakes, he mad a handful of unforced, schoolboy errors that gave Ireland a target to aim for, and unearned territory. I hope it's not his last time in an England shirt, but I don't think it was fair to debut him against Ireland in Dublin. I'd have gone for Roebuck, who has already shown some great stuff off the bench for England. Maybe hold Murley back for a Wales game.
For me the 23 for France should look like this:
1. Genge
2. George
3. Stuart
4. Itoje
5. Martin
6. Chessum
7. T.Curry
8. Earl
9. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Freeman
12. Slade
13. Lawrence
14. Roebuck
15. Daly
16. Dan
17. Rodd
18. Heyes
19. CCS
20. B.Curry
21. Willis
22. Quirke
23. Sleightholme
Steward is great, but anytime there's a backfield break it feels like his cover defence will be beaten. Daly is in great form for Sarries, and has that experience you talked about. Can also cover wing and centre, so gives us good options, and a long distance kicking threat.
Murley , should be a one cap wonder , I was against his selection and he proved me right
Hey Tim- thanks for all the reviews and so fast - very good, I'm not getting the relevance of players ratings, England or the Ireland ones you gave, the range is 6..5 to -8.5 so why 0-10 and , I've not added it up but seems England and Ireland are same if totaled, so doesnt reflect the game maybe. So whats the point - does it accumulate, is it about slection for next game against another player option? How are we finding it useful without maybe a history average per player? Or total/team? Dont become a statistician but whats it mean?
Ok - sorry - 5-8.5 , would be good if you tallied it - hard with minutes on field, I know but a rought tally for each team with the numbers per player. , which when I think about it would be impossible relate from game to game... ok - I dont have an answer to how to do. Ireland get 5 points from a possible 5 - ohh wait ... Great channel, thans mate, great rugby and a great win for Ireland.
tom curry was lethal he helped a lot
I would put Tom Willis at number 8 with the Curry brothers at 6 and 7. The rest of the team stays the same. However, the bench must have much more of an impact in the last 20/30 minutes as this is the time when England became less effective. Other than reduce the penalty count I would add Ted Hill to the bench with Ben Earl.
I know it’s a risk but next week I’d play Marcus at 15. Steward could he really badly exposed by Bielle-Biarrey and Attissogbe. They are absolutely rapid but also have that ability to turn on a sixpence, something Steward is notoriously not exactly the greatest at.
Do you remember last years 6 Nations? It was the one with Marcus Smith at FB where it was clear to most that he should never be played at FB against a decent team as he had an absolute mare ... Steward isn't the answer but neither is replacing him with another player who isn't good enough in that position. Both Freeman and Roebuck have played there and Id suggest are better options.
@ mate I’m just envisioning Steward being the last man in defence and getting his ankles broken by Attissogbe or LBB. Marcus is the only other alternative option. Freeman potentially but he’s only ever played 15 for England vs the Barbarians.
I liked our team overall. I liked the way we played. This could have gone the other way with another official. Itoje was excellent, but he got right up O’Keefe’s nose which cost us, with some justification to be fair.
Wing needs sorting.
When the ref says he will “yellow card any afters” and then doesn’t when Lowe started sh1t (again) we don’t have a standard. No fault on Lowe, he was excellent.
J'aurais apprécié venir à Twick, ca va être un gros match
Is it always right to make all the replacements after 60 minutes? I know Eddie Jones seemed to make it mandatory, but is it always right from now on? Surely a fit player ought to be able to play a full game.
Do not understand swapping out 9 & 10 at the same time… worse moving Marcus to 15, he’s not a natural full back and it showed, they lost structure then,,, and the game.
freeman wasnt too bad and mitchell did a crazy try saving tackle
The tight five were 7.5 to 8. The loosies combo didn't work. The back 3 are not of international class. Same old story England. Sorry Tim, smiths missed tackle, cost a try.
Can we just accept that Genge is not a scrummaging prop…
He seems better this season. Decent in November, and ok today. I will scrummaging isn't his best attribute though..100%
Been saying that for a while. He does some good things in the loose but is not good at his day job. Also opposition teams target him as his tackling around the fringes is horrible. Decent player but a little overrated.
@@kevinpillay6103 He was asleep at ruck guard for a break that lead to the try. Same thing happened twice in the AIs. Some players are just very slow to learn.
Ditto chopsing away to his opposite number and the referee rather than focusing on his actual scrummaging. You'd think that since being schooled by Fasogbon he's have smartened up but no.
@@EggchasersRugby Throwing out a hypothetical…
We need a mutant to either start or replace him. Genge off the bench, I think helps the impact you’re looking for from a sub - even use him like Eddie did in France (Kick Return option)
Cadan Murley - 3. If he can't remember basic laws in an international match, why is he there? Sleightholme did nothing wrong and was dropped. Murley should be the next Hassell-Collins
Absolute shocker, hopefully we don’t see him again
Tough weekend for 10s