I own an INT 650 and Meteor 350. Valve adjustments and other scheduled maintenance is simple especially on the 650. I remember seeing the W 800 in a showroom available for a jaw dropping $9200.00. My '20 INT was $5799.00. I anticipate the BSA, if it becomes available here (US), will be in the $7000.00 -$7500.00 range. I'm happy to see the BSA debut but RE has a huge head start and has gained a favorable reputation. I own liquid cooled bikes and there is maintenance involved there too. The INT is arguably a better-looking bike. Time of course will tell. Thank you for your thought-provoking review.
Thanks Michael. Oh yes, RE have been storming ahead for years and the brand is an 100% success. You are anticipating quite a price differential in the US if the BSA ever gets there. They haven't got to Ireland yet but in the UK the difference in price is £400 ($500 US). I think I would be willing to pay that for the engine, Brembo brakes and the valve service interval. A painted engine also bodes well for those that like a winter ride in these parts.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff you can polish light corrosion off the alloy on an Enfield, but once the paint on an engine goes it soon ends up looking like a BMW!
@@richardsimpson3792 🤣. Never owned a BMW but will next year for the first time, we’ll see😬. My painted Triumph Tiger engine was immaculate after 5 years and it went out in all weather. My CB1100 engine paint with much less mileage hasn’t faired so well though. Cleaning bike’s isn’t my favourite pastime and I work full time 5-6 days a week still so time is at a premium for me and I can’t be wasting it polishing alloy, I wish I did. 👍
very interesting video Terence and one of the reasons i won't be buying a new RE anytime soon. My Himalayan had to go to Edinburgh the night before so that the valves were cold for the check next day, fair enough thats standard practice but it left me with a 50 mile journey home on the bus and a similiar return to collect as no courtesy bike offered. At 10k a year it would have meant me doing that every few months, just did them myself but it did invalidate my warranty when I needed it. Like the video style keep it up
Thanks for the kind words, yes the Himalayan and Scram 411 have a valve service interval half that of the 650. Fine if you are going to do 2k a year (which I reckon a lot do) but as you say, that doesn't work for you.
History and facts speak for themselves, since 1901. No better place to test them than in India. Almost anyone can work on a Royal Enfield. Everybody has a choice. Thanks for the vid. 😎
100% Correct, I'll take any of these classic retros and be happy with it and yes, almost anyone can work on one but lots of people don't want to aswell. It is possible the BSA might attract a larger retro classic scene because they were put off by the RE service schedule? That's a hard argument to make but the best thing is we are are spoilt for choice.
i used to know a bike mechanic, he told me the guys in the kawasaki centre servicing the bikes with shim under bucket just started them up, if they sounded ok they didnt check them, as he pointed out as the valve seats wear the clearances closed up so the engines got quieter, i will take the screw and locknut and my feeler guages thanks, good point though
I had my 1st service (300 miles) done by my dealer, on my 350 Meteor. When I went to leave I turned the handle bar fully right and the engine revd up. They had a new guy performed the service and he got a little carried away with the cable ties and routed the throttle cable too tight. So I made the shop owner take off the tank (he wasn't happy) and correct the problem. I showed him another Meteor on the show room floor where the throttle was routing. He routed it the same and it corrected the problem. 😎
And right there his margin on the job went up in smoke. A basic mistake, how do you think he faired on the valve inspection then 😬. Thanks for the comment and sharing your experience. 👍
Saw the Gold Star in the flesh last week and was impressed. I have ridden the Interceptor but the things that would tip me to the Gold Star is the old school character of the single cylinder and, as mentioned here, service intervals.
Valve clearance isn't a deal breaker, a mug of coffee and two or three cigarettes and job done. I own an Interceptor and a Himalayan and most of the time they're spot on and don't need adjusting.
I agree, for someone who knows how to do it and wants to do it. I did my shim over bucket Daytona 1200 too and was happy to do so but lots of people just want to have a simpler ownership experience OR just haven't got the time or garage space.
@@daveinwla6360 It's included in the service charge, or in my case it's free, I do all the servicing myself with genuine parts. It's an easy job and no specialist tools required.
Paul, I recently bought a RE 350 REborn. UK expat now live in New Hampshire, US. My nearest dealer is a 2 hour one way ride and no public transport options. The valve clearance job is def do-able. And will make a good 'bonding' experience with the bike. Yes it would be a warranty issue, should anything go wrong. So be it. 'Ride With Warro' has a great 'how to'. Do you know of any other examples?
@@jamesdspaderf2883 - Do a UA-cam search on "Enfield 350 valve adjustment". There are many excellent how-to videos on that. They make you wanna DIY! :-)
The old RE Bullets tappet adjustment was ease in itself, just remove the single screw cover to access the pushrods where adjustment is on the pushrods, spin freely with zero up & down play. The later efi Bullets had hydraulic tappets so no adjustment needed, now we have the OHC models with a screw & lock nut system that would have benefited being hydraulic.
Thanks for the info Bob, love the old inspection covers. I suspect Hydraulic would just be too expensive on these smaller cc bikes from all manufacturers. I was surprise Harley's new 1250 V-Twin had hydraulics as it doesn't half spin up some.
My local RE dealer said to me that at the first 500km service they don't even bother checking the valve clearance any more because it"s always been within spec when they have done it.
They would say that wouldn't they. So why do RE still keep putting it in the service manual? What happens to your warranty if you just take it to 6,000 miles and burn a valve out and RE look for proof it was checked? It is no excuse for a dealer not to at least measure the clearances, its not that hard.
@@skotty1962 that may be true! I'm guessing the dealer's mechanics should know this. And provided the service stamp is in the Owner's Manual, you're covered.
Hi Terance, great video. I own the CB1100RS and was thinking of downsizing and enfield was one of my options but having seen the BSA and the information I know now , and the less maintenance sounds good , even thou the job seems straight forward enough and working on the bike is part of biking, I feel less tinkering on the engine leaves more time for other things . My CB has done 15k now and have never thought about the valve clearance , as you touched on , forums and other CB owners have checked at the time and everything was spot on, The bike runs the same since the day a bought it and i can think of more things £600+ can be spent on. cheers for the info.
Cheers LaneSplitter, yes, a good choice as a downsize from the CB, I thought the very same when I rode the W800. I'll keep the CB for now as it is costing me very little to insure on a multibike policy. The RE and BSA are both going to fit the bill too but the BSA seems to be getting good feedback on comfort which as I age is more important than anything else. I'm just not mad on the RE's 88mm rear suspension travel, it will be very interesting to see what it is on the Gold Star.
Yeah it will be interesting to test ride the BSA , I love the CB but i only have the option of having the one bike so I'll test the water with the BSA .The only reason I'm thinking of changing is the running cost petrol wise, although the Honda does surprise me with it's MPG, never under stress it just purrs along, and I've had over 60 per gallon doing a tour in Scotland. I'll keep an eye on the channel see what you think when you test ride. Keep safe . cheers Kevin @@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff
I had a CB1100XE too. I couldn't keep it though as I was constantly worried about being a custodian to all that lovely chrome and alloy. I sold it because it turned me into a dry day only rider. The RS is much easier to look after properly. It was also getting a bit heavy for me.
@@PhilipBallGarry Yes, that’s what the EX does for you, it’s just not a bike for winter riding with all that chrome. The BSA will be a good winter choice if that engine paint holds up.
@@PhilipBallGarry yep it's a bit of a task keeping them clean, and yep it's a heavy bugger. T he way things are going we will all be on lower capacity bikes shortly, too be fair it's all that's needed 50-70 Hp .
If the BSA ever becomes available, then we can talk about service intervals and reliability, all the BSA reviews and videos are irrelevant until we see bikes in show rooms.
Great stuff, this was one detail I could not find the answer for, having owned Japanese bikes, valve services are normally a once in a lifetime of the bike, won't make a difference for all, however good to know. I fall into your camp, can do them, would rather not have to :)
Terrance you make a valid point on valve clearances and their intervals ,and ease of ownership. I am comfortable in doing my own valves of all types as per manual as I have years of practice and was trained well to do it right. However not many will ever take valve clearance intervals as one of main buying criteria. RE has shaken up the market for price conscious buyers, and Aldi or Lidl comparisons have crept in which is fine people have budgets to work with. But your spot on that the engineering gone to achieve that higher clearance will come to your advantage. BSA is more of less at the same price point as the RE twins plus minus a few hundred, but the rotax engine has possibilities of higher horse power, which can be done by a ECU tune
Many thanks for your comments. You are dead right, many won’t take the valve service schedules into account and that is why I am highlighting the fact, I’m trying to change the mindset a little😀. Britain is becoming increasingly poorer and impoverished as decades pass and Aldi and Lidl type bikes (nothing wrong with those brands) will be ever more popular. But in these parts at this level these bikes are still a luxury. In Ireland where I live there are extra taxes on bikes and Royal Enfield’s are not that competitively priced and are as expensive as anything else. So maybe, just maybe owning the RE here is just not a great proposition?
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I am not sure of your statement-: "Britain is becoming increasingly poorer and impoverished as decades pass" I am not clear how this statement mid paragraph on Motorcycles and service interval schedules fit into the general conversation? Maybe I am misreading or misunderstanding the point you are trying to make? Please do feel free to enlighten me.
@@johnokelly8166 it was your reference to Aldi and Llidl that prompted that part of my response. Britons are increasingly looking for cheaper motorcycles of this ilk rather than high end premium machines as reflected in a huge sales success of the RE bikes. Given that trend and the relatively low mechanical skill sets in the general population the BSA would seem to offer a good solution in both regards.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I am afraid you really do need to re read the posts on here! I made no reference to Aldi or Lidl, it's not my post, it's '@cjsingh4070 post. I had not made any comments at that stage. If you check, I think you will agree that I only contacted you on your remark.
Not nuclear physics setting locknut and screw tappets, 10mm spanner and set of feelers. A lot to be said for keeping things simple. The rest is simple oil drop and changing of screw on oil filter cartridge 🤔🙄
My Yamha xv1900 road liner didn't have to have the valves done either because they were hydraulic (like the new Vee twin HD's) but that was a bike designed and built in the early 2000"s.
Yes, the big slow revvers can get away with the hydraulic design, I'm amazed HD managed it on the new, relatively high revving Revolution-Max 1250. There is a lot to like about that engine.
On my CB1100RS I had to change engine gasket as 16k miles, as it was sweating oil all around the engine. I've also done valve clearance, and it's all seems to be within the limits.
I've admired the DIY maintenance ease of the Royal Enfield bikes, especially the screw-n-locknut valve adjustment. But being forced to pay for dealer "servicing" by the threat of loss of warranty is a disappointing 2nd thought. It will be revealing of RE's future direction to see the valve train of the upcoming 450cc Himalayan engine.
Excellent information, I've just tested a bsa and put deposit down. Was considering an Enfield, but bsa looks nicer/classier, engine on the Enfield looks too big for the bike, and now I know about valves service's, I made the right choice..
While I may prefer to buy the BSA over the RE for other reasons the Valve adjustment on the Royal Enfield shouldn't put you off unless you really hate wrenching on your own motorcycle.
The new Goldstar 650 shims are £42 to£47 each on the Fowlers website ! 2 sparkplugs no centre stand ? I don't trust mechanics I do my own servicing and about to buy the RE interceptor because of this ,I expected the new Goldstar to be a more practical bike being made in by Mahindra .The motor is an old reworked Rotax unit which is ok I suppose ,my heart says BSA but my head says Enfield ,good reviews .
Thanks Steven. I am used to screw and locknut and would be happy to do them myself but I know a lot wouldn't be. Those Goldstar shims are excessively expensive but my guess is very very few owners are going to reach that service interval. I don't think there can be a wrong choice if you have considered the options. Good luck whichever you run with.
I bought a new 2001 Honda VT 1100 Shadow for $7,000.00 and drove it 12,000 or more a year. In 2020 my health got bad and I couldn’t ride anymore, I literally cried for months. I gave it to my son and she had 78,000 miles on it and road like it did when I bought it and I never😊 had to adjust the valve’s. VT 1100 had hydraulic self-adjusting lifter’s. All I had to do was put a new set of tires on it once a year and I changed the oil every 3,000 miles, no cam chain adjustment’s (it was self adjusting). In even rode it from Alabama to Montana and back in 2005, 4,000 mile’s in 7 days, and she never missed a beat. Man…I sure miss her.
Sorry to hear about your health problems Glenn, it was nice that your son could take on the bike on after you gave up riding. I think the VT1100 was the last Honda to have hydraulic lifters. The 80's four pot nighthawks were well known for it too. That was it, as long as you changed the oil frequently those engines just went on forever. Take care Glenn.
I think and I may be speaking in generalizations but personally I think what attracts most to purchasing decisions is performance, cost of ownership and overall budget. Maintenance costs or schedules of service requirements should not be a huge delta. I owned Corvettes in my life and just a basic oil change was $500.00 at the dealer. Tires were $1,000 a piece once a year, Car washing supplies, insurance and yes gas....it all adds up....the point I am making is buy what you like, ride what you like and stop picking the fly poop out of the rice. What I hate is the fact that TRIUMPH is requiring you to take you bike into them for basic service in order to shut off the service due light.....however I just found out about TuneECU and bought the app and OBD link will be doing my own oil changes and basic maintenance thank you very much. Shame on TRIUMPH for that bone head move. Yes you are right the average salesman does not want you to know...might be a good top 10 video coming soon to rant on. "What Motorbike Salesmen Don't want you to know" or "Marry a Indian woman and never worry about maintenance again" I will let you decide on that Terence.
There is a different mindset between North America and Europe. Europeans with everything on their doorstep are very used to dealer servicing and letting "someone else" do it whereas the ingrained NA spirit of of pushing west, self sufficiency, can do attitude would make you annoyed about that silly service light when you are taking care of things yourself. Thanks for the new content suggestions ;-)
That I don't know. I have an old fashioned paper element on my Triumph Daytona 1200 and they can be a little messier to replace but the paper elements are very cheap.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff you are saying about a service on a RE. And you got a D1200. Good luck doing the air filter and front sprocket. Think id rather do the RE valves lol.
@@paulmessenger1006 Tell me about it Paul, I know you are well versed. I have done the air filter of course but glad it is good for a gazillion miles so something not often done. Thankfully the front sprocket is all good, just keeping my fingers crossed on the sprag!
At last someone mentioned the elephant in the room👍 ! I own an RE 650 and I can confirm the short interval span for tappet adjustment is necessary and it's also a real pain. The engine cover is a pig to remove as there is very little wriggle room so it's best to remove the tank and loosen the abs bolts to give more room. The tappets are fairly straight forward but rotating the engine a few times after adjustment by hand reveales a lot of potential for error. One more thing 😲, replacing the cover while trying to keep the bloody gasket in place is a real pain in the arse too and it takes a lot of attempts due to the lack of manoeuvring room. That being said I think the RE 650 is a great fun bike and if like me you have the time and patience to do the work yourself it's still a good option , but if I could do a straight swap for the BSA I would seriously consider it even though it's a bit ugly in my eyes due to the radiator .Whatever!! Happy biking folks😁
Great detailed insight Aladin Fox. I think there is great potential for home enthusiasts to make a right balls of this unless used to this type of work. The W800 is a masterclass as to how it should be done with shims and sliding rockers on the shaft, absolute genius. Agree, the RE650 is a class bike for the price although I do slag it on occasions, but only in jest.
The problem with RE 650 valve adjustment is having to take off the rocker cover and have a new gasket ready to go on, unless it is a rubber seal? This is what always annoyed me (still annoys me) about my A65, having to replace the gasket with valve clearance checks. Lucky that when you get your ear in, you can hear if it is critical to do the adjustment or not. I have long wondered whether I could caste a rocker cover for the A65 with the same shape but have something akin to Triumph inspection covers on it or better still round ones on the front and an elongated cover on the rear like on a trident engine.
I think the RE650 will be a rubber seal by now. Many bikes are a pain to get them to sit exactly right now with so much electrics/electronics in the way. On my 90's Triumph I was lucky in that it only took the removal of two coils.........after removing mountains of plastic fairing! 🤣 Aah, inspection covers now wouldn't they be just great if they ever made a comeback. I wouldn't be good enough to rely on my hearing when riding different bikes all the time but if I lived with the same bike for long enough yes, I think you would get used to its sound. Spotting a quickly opening gap is easy enough, tougher to spot a slowly closing.🤣. Thankyou for your comments.
Let’s face it Terry, what are we really looking at in terms of cost? 3 x £200 tops for the 3 services to keep the warranty. And when you compare the cost of the 2 bikes; BSA £6500 vs RE £6039. we are looking at just £140 after which one could either do it yourself or a non-franchised dealer for little cost.
But for that price difference I'm getting Brembo brakes, a painted engine which would suit me as I like a winter ride (not an issue for many I know) and what looks like to be a less crashy ride, that coming from test riders who have ridden both. I would be interested to see the dealer who charges £200 for an annual service which includes a valve service. RE UK showing the base bike at £6199 for single colour, £6399 dual and £6699 chrome tank. The BSA with its part chrome tank could be equated somewhere in the middle I would of thought making the difference nearer £400. But it's great to have the choice. 👍
I think if I had to choose on looks I'd go BSA. The main reason I'd get the interceptor would be because I live close to a royal Enfield dealer and I know parts and repairs are not going to be any trouble. I considered the benelli 400 but again I just think RE have the reputation and are less of an unknown quantity. I can imagine the benelli rusting quite quickly. But the Gold Star is a fantastic looking bike and if it wasn't over my maximum 6k budget I'd consider one. Atm I'm looking at the 350 and 411 bikes as honestly I just don't ride fast anymore. But yeah the short services aren't ideal especially if you're someone who does like 6k a year. I'd probably only do about 2k , so no biggie for me.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff In reality things are more complicated than mere valve timing costs aren’t they? Let’s face it we are comparing the most established motorcycle company in the world who sell 800k bikes a year of many varieties to what boils down to a start up company with 1 bike as yet unproven, indeed no prospective customer owns one and won’t for some months ahead. A company that has already trashed their reputation from day 1 by delays. Money is not the only driver and for many, possibly most, not even a factor as these being largely luxury indulgences rather than transport. Your point is valid and true and it’s vital that people understand what they are investing in but to suggest BSA and performed “a blinder” over RE is somewhat of a stretch.
To be fair, my local dealer have been selling the RE650 since it came out and have a lot of practice doing valve clearance adjustments. They can offer the service for an hours labour which is reasonable. We considered the Interceptor before choosing our T100 but as we ride two up 90% of the time the pillion provision was an essential factor. The length of seat and pillion footpeg position was much better on the T100. Yes, I paid a considerable premium for our choice and Triumph's factory support has a lot to be desired. My next bike (in 18 months) might be either the BSA Goldstar or the Super Meteor though. The SM looks fantastic especially the fit & finish. It's not "heavy" compared to some of the bikes I've owned but I wonder if the power to weight ratio might be a little compromised because of it? I do like the choice of finish on the engine cases which look more durable than the polished alloy of the Interceptor. Tubeless rims also remove some of the worries if you intend to tour on the SM too. BSA have done a brilliant job on the new Goldstar and any potential issues experienced by the early adopters will be long gone by the time I'm ready to swap? Why not keep the T100 you might think? Well, that would be the ideal solutuion but at the end of the PCP I'm not sure I could finance the balance for an affordable cost given the current financial situation we're all facing and the interest rates available.
Yes, ones considerations and bike choices change appreciably once a pillion is involved. Triumph have a good history of providing bikes with excellent load capacities. The little 660 Sport has a greater load capacity than a BMW R1250GS for example, remarkable. That Super Meteor, looks a million $$$ but boy that weight? I know what you mean, the weight itself is not really the problem but not a lot of power to haul that weight. To put it into perspective it is within a few kg's of a Triumph Tiger 1200! I'm not sure if the BSA will be a good two up machine yet, there just isn't enough information on load capacities etc. On a positive note, you have all the excitement to come of a few test rides and choice of a new bike. Thanks for your thoughts.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Thanks Terry. My local dealer have the RE and BSA franchises so it'll be possible to road test them back to back. It might be of interest that we tested both the T100 and T120 back to back and found the former completely adequate without the additional cost. The T100 also handled slightly better due to it's single front disc and the fuelling was much sweeter with it's single throttle body. True, it can't cruise at 80mph like the T120 (6th gear) but that speed is incredibly uncomfortable for any length of time on a naked bike (and not legal) anyway. At 70mph in top (5th) the T100 is pulling 3500rpm which is roughly peak torque so it's incredible efficient. Not that we like A roads and motorways - using them only as a means to join up the twisty stuff 😉. Oops! I went a bit off topic there didn't I? Sorry all 😇
@@PhilipBallGarry ha ha, no worries. That’s not the first time I have heard that about the T100 Vs the T120 actually so there must be something in it. Cheers 👍.
Yes, that is going to be very interesting. BSA looks like they are out of that size market for the foreseeable future. It is interesting that Honda don't bring the Honda Highness 350 out in this part of the world where RE can thrive with their 350 single.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Exactly . The Honda CB/GB 350 is a very good motorcycle. Even the Japs use the Indian model in their market. Really don't know why Honda has not used that sucess in the other parts of the world.
Another great thought provoking video. I guess if RE insist on you taking your bike to them for services or loose your warranty then whether you can do it you or not becomes irrelevant! Yes, I think the engine in the BSA is a Rotax and that’s not to be sniffed at eh? Many UA-camrs felt the BSA is the better bike, and still a great price. I’d have one for sure.
Obviously, there is more to cost of ownership than valve clearance checks. For example, the watercooling system and replacing all those tacky BSA stickers...
Yes, but think of all the savings on not having to replace the shocks or pay for anymore physiotherapists visits. The new 450cc single from RE is going to be watercooled, would you not consider it because of that?
As decimate means 1 in 10, I agree that is the amount of sales BSA might take from RE, even though the Int and GT are far better value, better finished and just better looking.
Really ? most people I have spoken too think the BSA is a far better looking bike and as for finishing the closer you get to an Interceptor the worse it gets . its one of the few bikes that looks far better in the pictures than in the flesh where the crude finishing, welding and component quality really begins to show. Park one next to a budget Japanese bike and its night and day.
@@WyreForestBiker Those engine covers? Tank badge? Looks like cheap ABS plastic. My Int is well finished and the welds are neat and tidy, far better than my HD Dyna and almost on par with my Triumph. The BSA is overpriced, sounds good but next to the Int, for me it's not contest.
I think a ride is in order, by all accounts the BSA runs a little smoother and I do find the RE650 a bit crashy on the suspension. But people will vote with their pocket and BSA have to actually make enough to sell them!
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I agree, the rear suspension is a bit pants, to be honest! Hit anything bigger than a Harley owners wallet and you know about it!
The "shim under bucket" style I first encountered on my Rover 2000 dating from the 1960s and they were an absolute nightmare to set as it involved removing the cam shaft every time you got it wrong, so for me it ain't the greatest innovation.
Things have come a long way since then. My parents had the same car, it was a wonderful tank. Part of my point was most owners will never get to that mileage on this sort of bike.
So what ? The Enfield is proven has good spares back up and of course Hitchcocks for wonderful service and extras. BSA is a Mahindra well known for poor customer service and spares backup so long term owners may be difficult and potentially poor.
Oh yes, Mahindra will have to prove themselves, balls it up and people will leave the brand. This manufacturing in the UK does look a bit wobbly I will say. But they have to say they will do it along with EV research to take the UK Government grants. That bit is smoke and mirrors, no more than what Triumph are doing I suspect.
I'll keep my Interceptor, in Ravishing Red ! ... and with 20 bikes in the stable I do all my valve adjustments except the Italian singles. I don't do " shims ". UA-cam is full of pundits blowing the BSA horn, but nothing compels me find my wallet. As to date.... there are no BSA dealers in my area and I've asked several dealerships..... no one plans on putting then on the showroom floor. 😎
Choice is a great thing but 20 bikes is a lot! Do you put enough individual mileage on any to do a valve service? 😀😀. There is no BSA dealer in Ireland yet either, I think it will take some time here, we have an odd market here. Never say never 👍. Thanks for the comment.
Do you have to take the camshafts out to adjust the clearance on the gold star? That's not exactly a simple task and if you pay the labour will cancel out the vast majority of the savings of the RE more frequent changes...I personally hate shim bucket valve systems with a passion for this reason and wouldn't buy a bike with it for that reason. Having said that I do 20 thousand kms a year min so the ease of adjustment is a big factor for me
I think you know the answer to your question and I stated you do, so? My point was the greater majority of owners of these bikes will do reasonably low mileage and quite likely will never encounter the adjustment at all. Seeing as you are in km, they won't have to look at this until 38,624km. I like shim/bucket systems because in many bikes they can just be completely ignored. But I do have three vehicles with screw and locknut adjustment and can get on with those just fine too.
@Terence O'Keeffe's Motorcycle Stuff (TOMS) yeah that's fair. I'd just hate to be taking camshafts off and re doing timing every year and a half. I'd also be dreading the milage knowing the labour costs incoming for paying someone to do it.
One of the strong selling point of the Royal Enfield 650 is the sound, how can the BSA beat that ? More and more manufacturers go for the parallel twin with 270 crank. I was shocked at the news of BSA releasing a 650 single that sounds like a dirt bike
How times change. I loved the old school 360 crank on the W800 I rode, the true //twin British crank/firing order. Royal Enfield and their new fangled 270 firing order, it's heresy I say, heresy!
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff sales numbers are speaking louder than comments. Internet is full of RE videos. Triumph ditched the 360 crank in favour of the 270 which is clear sign that the engine sound is a strong selling point
@@danscram Yes, I completely agree with you, I was being a little tongue in cheek. RE are very well established and BSA will have a steep climb ahead of them but they will undoubtedly take RE sales with this bike. For every guy that likes a 270 crank twin there's a guy who likes a single thumper too.
It is a great design but is harder to implement in higher revving engines. Having said that Harley’s Pan America is a hard revving engine and copes just fine. I suspect it is all down to price.
I have vivid memories of my mate doing his shims and 'fuggin' buckets back in the day. I felt for 'them'. And what biker does 2,000 miles a year? I'm on 22,000 three years into the RE 650. It's a peach, and the tappets are not just a doddle, but a pleasure. Shims, buckets and pronouns? You're welcome to them.
Nono, you can have the pronouns! 😬😀. You only have to look at the hundreds of bikes for sale in this category on Auto-trader to see what sort of mileage is done on them annually. At your mileage you are the exception and I agree adjusting the valve clearance is easy. But it is not easy for many and I would say most owners are not inclined towards doing them themselves. Safe travels 👍.
You have absolutely right, but the twin cylinder will last better from a single cylinder engine. Also it has only 5 speed transmission gears. Also, make a video about the T120 & Speedmaster engine service intervals. I read at youtube that 1200cc engine has reliability issues with their transmissions & Triumph hasn't solved it yet.
I don't know how widespread that Triumph gearbox issue is, it is hard to tell I think a lot of these sorts of bike do low annual mileage and any issues lurking tend not to get exposed. I don't mind five speed bikes If they are ratioed well and have an engine characteristics to make good use of it. Five speed used to be "luxury" compared to the old 3 or 4 speed vehicles.
Sorry valve adjustment isn't all that difficult if you can remember righty tighty and lefty losey. Considering that it is a simple screw type lash adjuster vice many bikes out there that use shim under bucket that requires you to remove the cam to service the lash if one is out of specs. From what I have heard from numerous sources, the Royal Enfield bikes go quite a while before you actually have to adjust the lash. So this is a big issue being presented for for absolutely NOTHING. Have been twisting wrenches for over 50 years on my equipment. A good example is that most people didn't know that the old Dodge slant 6 had solid lifters, well the last couple of years had hydraulic lifters, have seen them with over 200k without lash adjustment. Buddy of mine had one he got used and knew the history since new, the valves had never been adjusted in his Dodge pickup, had a leaking valve cover gasket so we pulled it to change gasket and found that the valves were still within specs, but a little on the tight side with only 240k miles.
“Valve adjustment isn’t all that difficult…….” As I have said to many others in the comments. Not difficult for you. Others are challenged by time constraints, lack of available working space, limited mechanical skills or just total lack of interest in wrenching. I maintain my point is valid and the RE provided the perfect comparison as the obvious targeted competitor. 240k miles is some going, a testament to the designers of the day. Thanks for the interesting story 👍.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff This actually follows through the younger generation. Most of those 40 and below, can't even check the oil in their vehicle. We have raised a generation or so that are basically helpless, but experts in video games and such. These people should not be on a motorcycle for any reason, even as a passenger, and I can support that statement with experience. These are the same individuals that put people down because they are not computer-literate. The kids are now in their late 30's and early 40's and were taught to use their hands and minds, at the same time. They are finding that they can get good employment rapidly as they are skilled.
Valid point but many buts. The Owneeship is more than just warrenty period. Many will home sevice their bikes after and how many will poo the bed when it comes to doing BSA shims. The Enfield is not service shims every year. But 6k. The Inty could be done by the roadside, its that simple. Can a BSA be moified? From day one you could get high comp pistons, 750 kits 865 kits what is a ailable for BSA? Didley squat. If you were buying a BSA and bought with your eyes. We all love our bikes right. Don't look at the left side.
What I was eluding too though Paul was that many, maybe most of the owners will never get round to doing the valve service on the BSA as they will just not put that much mileage on the bike. Most owners of these style bikes do not seem to be putting big mileage on them but using them for sunny days out. I have no problem with that at all, I have such a bike too. There will always be the exceptions of course. The RE service schedule specifically states an annual valve service regardless of mileage so that is where that comes from. Out of warranty an owner can decide to do whatever they like of course. I'm not surprised there is not much aftermarket stuff out for the BSA yet, there are none for sale yet so early days. If I went to the trouble of putting and 865 kit on an RE I think I would of just bought a larger engined bike in the first place, I don't see the point.
@@daveinwla6360 As I mentioned Dave, yes, increasingly so. The dealer I spoke to said the all three of his manufacturers are now looking for full proven service intervals to validate any warranty work now. Manufacturers were subject to the same pressures as anyone due to the pandemic, they aren't all awash with cash.
A quick oil change maybe but yes, very low for a valve check. The BMW 1250 isn’t brilliant at 12,000 miles but at least checking them is a very quick job.
On checking with a Royal Enfield dealer the yearly service you highlight about is a cost of around £190 - £200 including valve adjustment which by comparison to most other bikes sold in the UK is very cheap indeed most other bikes would cost around that with vat inc for a ordinary oil service yearly. What our local BSA dealer here on the south coast told me they have to get all parts from a large multi franchise bike dealer in Bristol they won't holp parts themselves in stock it would interesting to see how much that large cooling radiator on the Goldstar cost to replace!!!
Call me naive, but why can't modern bikes have zero-maintenance hydraulic valve lifters like cars? Sure there's a good reason - would like to know what it is.
Cost! There has been plenty of precedent, especially from Honda way back. The new Harley 1250 motor revs it’s tits off, pumps out 150HP, but manages to use a hydraulic lifter, an absolute peach of an engine but then you pays for it! What say you? 👍😀
For the U.S. Market, I don't see a $ 7000 single as a threat to R.E. Singles don't have a huge following, especially compared to smoother twins. Why pay the same amount of money for a bike with half the engine of a R.E. RE's singles are cheaper and better focused for specific purposes. R.E's Himalyan is a better tourer, commuter, off road bike than the BSA. Watercooling means more maintenance by virtue of an additional system to maintain. RE's are easily user serviceable and valve adjustments are ridiculously easy. My RE Continental is slow, but it is still fast enough to be entertaining. I don't want anything slower, I.E. BSA.
Test rides seem to indicate the BSA has similar performance to the RE650 twin with many praising the lower rev range grunt. The bike has been universally praised for its smoothness so no lumpy old KLR style thumper here.(which do seem incredibly popular in the USA). BSA does not have a model in the Himalyan style/price bracket so that is really apples and pears. I did say valve adjustment was easy, do it all the time myself. But easy for me and easy for you and many others but lots and lots of people do not find it easy or have the inclination to spanner on their own bikes. Half the engine? Half the pistons twice the camshaft but not really a valid point. That's like saying my CB1100 there is better than a 1700cc $35K Harley because it has four pistons instead of two. I'm just talking about a motorcycle here, not your first born child.😅
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff CB 1100 better than a harley? Well, that depends on what you plan to do with it. For sheer performance, my money is on the CB. For cruising comfort (depending on Model) or the aura of "Americana" perhaps the Harley. There in lies the rub. The BSA is not very focused, even as much as the Interceptor. The Interceptor is also general purpose retro motorcycle that was air and oil cooled and still is and even harkens back to the original with engine cases and looks that truly keep in spirit with the original. The BSA is a frame that has a liquid cooled Rotax engine (not lauded for reliability) heaped on it with a barn door radiator. Not all that nostalgic. Tastes differ, so I guess it depends on how much nostalgia you can stand or stand to sacrifice. Yes the Himalayan is a Thumper, one that will not be called upon for endless miles of high speed, but will manage 70 comfortably. It's Thumper torque is for where you need it most. Low speed off road. The BSA may have torque. But It's riding position is wrong for top end. It's torque will not see "Off road". So I have to ask. What is it for? I chose the Continental Gt to maximize top end performance and handling and I bet, along with the Interceptor It will out perform the BSA in any "road bike" category you would care to measure. Except maybe 0 to 30? The beauty of motorcycling is our ability to choose such a wide variety of wonderful tools to do our bidding. Try not to take it so personal. Your mileage or opinions may very.
@@Phuc_Socialist_You_Tube It’s all relative, a W800 owner might lament the ugly oil cooler slapped on the front of an Interceptor? But yes, it’s great we all have a choice and are richer for it. My video was outlining what might affect one’s choice in terms of servicing comparing two bikes. In this neck of the woods these sort of bikes are purchased for scooting around the country lanes on a sunny Sunday day and are not serious tourers, scratchers or cruisers. The used bike market is overflowing with 2nd hand RE650’s with very little mileage. I’ll leave it there so, be good! 👍😬😁
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff There are always posers who have to run out and buy what they think everyone else will envy them on, only to find out its not for them. Harleys are like that in the states. I hope BSA succeeds. There was a time you couldn't give me an RE. Pre Siddhartha Lal days. RE has earned itsarket share. If BSA does, then perhaps I'll be inclined to pick one up. Only god knows what future models could be in store. Maybe from a poser who was kind enough of absorb depreciation, leaving the bike with low miles. Cheers and best wishes.
Uncle Stu won't review the BSA until the units are installed, and make an appearance and for sale by the dealers. Until now only biker journo units were available. That decision to 'buy or not to buy' will be predicated on a lot more than any worry about valve clearance! Not least the Company itself and it's shaky reputation. Just sayin'.....
You are right of course. Not sure why he is taking that stance on the BSA though, it will arrive and the demo units are here to ride, seems a bit dramatic? They don't have form on the Goldstar yet and in reality it cannot be delivered right now as you say. It could fall flat on its face but i hope not. The valve clearances won't matter if owners don't ride them, there are a lot of very low mileage 650's out the for sale, one has to wonder if this is a comfort issue with older riders? The Goldstar seems to be suspended quite differently by all accounts which may garner a high approval rate. We'll see. Cheers James.
I just wasted 10 minutes of my time learning that the new BSA has a long period between valve services compared to the old fashioned nut and screw RE , and that RE's excellent warranty is dependant upon the owner getting timely valve services. I am a mechanic. I like to own things I can fix myself at a pinch. I hate bucket and shim engines. They can be expensive and nightmarish to repair. I think I would go for the Enfield. P.S. I don't think I heard you mention the length of the BSA warranty did I ?
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Cool. That's a great warranty. Thanks for putting me straight. Great looking bike. Forgive my scepticism , but I am dubious about. Rotax. I rebuilt several of their two strokes out of jet boats. Very tricky to get running properly after a salt water induced rebuild . I vowed never to work on one again, not withstanding that the BSA engine is a 4 stroke , the name Rotax still gives me the jitters.
@@graememorris7820 No no. i was referring to the RE warranty of three years, I thought you were eluding to that. It is two years on the Gold Star. I think that Rotax engine has proven itself in other implementations to give some peace of mind. But your experience...once bitten! I know how you feel. 😬
It’s pointless comparing a single bucket with a twin . Why buy a single style classic if you really want a twin . It’s not as if doing valves is hard & as you know the screw & lockout even easier . What usually takes the time is removing all the stupid Euro gubbins in the way . I always junk the guarantee once I have had chance to assess ,that I haven’t been lumbered with a Friday afternoon lemon & do the servicing myself . I only know of 2 old school mechanic dealers ,most of them are now kids still wet behind the ears ,& others no more than glorified part fitters .. Last time I bought a new motorbike & had it serviced under warrantee period ,I kept. getting less of my bike back ,missing nuts bolts & screws & finally damage . Also not once did they tell me to leave the bike the night before ,to allow it to cool for valve check & set, because they never touched them ,just gave it an oily rag & an oil change & tightened the chain like a banjo string . I service repair & build my own ,that way I know it’s been done correct . Most dealer service stamps aren’t worth the paper they are stamped on ,never had a problem selling any of my bikes just on their merit . If you’re buying an Indian or Chinese budget bike ,you can always upgrade things like tyres ,brake lines & pads & suspension as they wear out ,like we always did with the Japanese bikes & any other bike come to think of it .
Your attitude to warranty is something that I think is very widespread. It must be especially more common where dealers are 100's of miles away and the cost of getting the bike there and back just doesn't make it worth it. You say adjusting the valve clearances are not that hard, not for you but it is for many and there are those that just don't want to get involved at that level. Think of many urban owners with little or no service space, just disposing of old oil is a chore. In those instances dealers look attractive. But yes, can you even trust a dealer to have the skills to do the basic work, something I was eluding to. Thanks for the comment 👍.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff 300miles actually, but it's hardly a bank breaker, most interceptors e4 at least haven't needed the warranty, time will tell with the bsa,
Whilst it is true about the valve clearance I suspect that the majority sales for these bikes will be the home Indian market.Having spent a bit of time in India on bikes in the last 20 years, it seems many people do home servicing. Many others take bikes to local mechanics , often little more than a hut on the side of the road. Adjusting a lock nut tappet is dead easy . Certainly something within the capability of an average home mechanic with no training. I can do a tappet service on an Enfield in under 30 minutes at no cost at all. A shim change to adjust the tappets , on a BSA will cost at least the price of each shim that needs changing. This means stripping the rocker box , measuring the shim and then purchasing one. Adding a week or so delivery time for the home mechanic or the back street dealer. Or forcing use of a main dealer at considerable extra expense. Fine for your wealthy first world owner who has no ability or desire to look after their own vehicle ; but will they be the majority of the likely market? You are completely accurate that the majority of western owners who pass vehicles on quickly will never need to address this issue. Serious riders and those enthusiasts who enjoy home maintenance may feel otherwise? I certainly would never again own a bike that had shims, my Zeds in the 80’s and 90’s cost far to much money in shims where as BMW , Harley , Hondas , Enfields and others cost no more than a bit of time to adjust.
All good points well made and my remarks were aimed at the typical buyer in Europe. Although an easy task many would still shy from doing this themselves. I was trying to make that point about India as well in that this is a non issue for them. Our sales here are meager compared to the Indian market but foreign currency sales are good for RE. Having said that are spy shots emerging of RE’s latest 450 single being water cooled? It seems the next logical step and I can’t see the Indians shying away from a shim swap either if it goes that way even if it does mean a camshaft coming out every 24,000 miles. Thanks for the detailed response 👍.
Thanks for response. I guess we are in agreement . Not that it matters ,debate is fun. For anyone who has not seen the BSA in person I would urge you to its a cracking looking bike.
@@philroberts5537 yes, I saw it at the NEC show and sat on it Phil, looks very well. No dealers appointed in Ireland as yet but distribution here has its challenges!
Me too at NEC .I.must say the reviews are very promising too. Let's hope they sort a dealer network before they loose credibility. I hear suspension and seating are up on Enfield with a lower seat height which will suit those who malingered in their childhood instead of growing taller🤣
Just scare tactics , i can do my suzuki dr650 valves in 45 minutes including removing the seat , tank etc . i just bought a continental gt650 no regrets .... shim valve jobs suck having to remove cams etc no thanks .
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I should have thought of that but at least it will be cheaper to get done and if someone wants to learn it is one of the easier valve adjustments to do .
Sorry, But you are talking absolute tripe, The law has changed with regards to Warranties, Service's can be carried out by a competant person, as long as you use recommend oil's, Genuine part's, And keep All your recipes, You should check this out, Because UK Law on warranty work has changed,! Whilst the Interceptor 650 was designed from the ground up,😅 Cheers Paul Foster
Don't hold back or anything Paul ! 😯 I am aware of the UK warranty situation. I was aluding to the fact that most owners do not want to take care of valve service maintenence. They either don't have the time to adjust them themselves (or value their time elsewhere) or don't have the capability to adjust them. In some geographies the interval is as little as 3,000 miles for the valve clearance check. So what are those owners to do apart from paying for that service at a dealer OR just taking a gamble? What would you suggest? If you do the valve servicing yourself how do you prove this to RE in the event of a warranty claim? If it was my bike I would do them myself but I am that way inclined, most are not. Having said all that I have recently seen a growing number of vdeoes on the awful trade-in values been offerred on the RE's, quite shocking. Given this scenario I wouldn't put a penny into dealer services as it would not seem to add any value whatsoever come sale time. But that will always be the case with cheap bikes from any manufacturer. I service my own Daytona 1200, including valve shim swaps and my CB1100EX never see's a dealer but I have no warranty with either of those bikes either.
All makes ofmotorcycles at the moment are not doing very well in the Part exchanging deal, It's just the way it is at the moment , Also I have said, you provide proof to any make of Motorcycle for a potential warranty claim, By keeping your recipes, also mileage time's of work carried out, Photo's if required, They are required to except this now by law, I except for some people this is not an option, but it's certainly not a reason not to buy a bike because of costs you may incur, Cheers Paul Foster
If the shit hits the fan you know where most of the population will be sucking their thumbs looking to the Government for help. Around here we get a strong wind and they close all the schools.
Thanks for the considered analysis of my content ROGER BEEDHAM. Always great to get the experts view on these things, especially when so well articulated. Made you watch….
Good video. I didn't buy an RE because of the valve check requirements. I thought the servicing was too quick and short, here at least in Australia it's every 5k or 6 months. No thanks. Imagine, you're already putting lube on your chain, tensioning it, then also oil every 6 months and checking its valves all the time. You're working on it more than you're riding it. I went with a CB300R instead, more reliable, more power, I see the CB300R as in competition with the Hunter 350, it's a better bike in every way.
I 100% agree and that is the exact choice I would make if I was in the market for something of that nature. The CB300R is a fantastic bike and you know it will just work.
I own an INT 650 and Meteor 350. Valve adjustments and other scheduled maintenance is simple especially on the 650. I remember seeing the W 800 in a showroom available for a jaw dropping $9200.00. My '20 INT was $5799.00. I anticipate the BSA, if it becomes available here (US), will be in the $7000.00 -$7500.00 range. I'm happy to see the BSA debut but RE has a huge head start and has gained a favorable reputation. I own liquid cooled bikes and there is maintenance involved there too. The INT is arguably a better-looking bike. Time of course will tell. Thank you for your thought-provoking review.
Thanks Michael. Oh yes, RE have been storming ahead for years and the brand is an 100% success. You are anticipating quite a price differential in the US if the BSA ever gets there. They haven't got to Ireland yet but in the UK the difference in price is £400 ($500 US). I think I would be willing to pay that for the engine, Brembo brakes and the valve service interval. A painted engine also bodes well for those that like a winter ride in these parts.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff you can polish light corrosion off the alloy on an Enfield, but once the paint on an engine goes it soon ends up looking like a BMW!
@@richardsimpson3792 🤣. Never owned a BMW but will next year for the first time, we’ll see😬. My painted Triumph Tiger engine was immaculate after 5 years and it went out in all weather. My CB1100 engine paint with much less mileage hasn’t faired so well though. Cleaning bike’s isn’t my favourite pastime and I work full time 5-6 days a week still so time is at a premium for me and I can’t be wasting it polishing alloy, I wish I did. 👍
very interesting video Terence and one of the reasons i won't be buying a new RE anytime soon. My Himalayan had to go to Edinburgh the night before so that the valves were cold for the check next day, fair enough thats standard practice but it left me with a 50 mile journey home on the bus and a similiar return to collect as no courtesy bike offered. At 10k a year it would have meant me doing that every few months, just did them myself but it did invalidate my warranty when I needed it. Like the video style keep it up
Thanks for the kind words, yes the Himalayan and Scram 411 have a valve service interval half that of the 650. Fine if you are going to do 2k a year (which I reckon a lot do) but as you say, that doesn't work for you.
History and facts speak for themselves, since 1901. No better place to test them than in India. Almost anyone can work on a Royal Enfield. Everybody has a choice. Thanks for the vid. 😎
100% Correct, I'll take any of these classic retros and be happy with it and yes, almost anyone can work on one but lots of people don't want to aswell. It is possible the BSA might attract a larger retro classic scene because they were put off by the RE service schedule? That's a hard argument to make but the best thing is we are are spoilt for choice.
Great video, but I wouldn't let having the valve clearances done put me off a nicer looking bike in my opinion 👍🇬🇧🏍
Yes, it won’t bother many but it probably will bother others. I’d have either bike, love both.
i used to know a bike mechanic, he told me the guys in the kawasaki centre servicing the bikes with shim under bucket just started them up, if they sounded ok they didnt check them, as he pointed out as the valve seats wear the clearances closed up so the engines got quieter, i will take the screw and locknut and my feeler guages thanks, good point though
Cheers, yes, I reckon a lot of that goes on.
I had my 1st service (300 miles) done by my dealer, on my 350 Meteor. When I went to leave I turned the handle bar fully right and the engine revd up. They had a new guy performed the service and he got a little carried away with the cable ties and routed the throttle cable too tight. So I made the shop owner take off the tank (he wasn't happy) and correct the problem. I showed him another Meteor on the show room floor where the throttle was routing. He routed it the same and it corrected the problem. 😎
And right there his margin on the job went up in smoke. A basic mistake, how do you think he faired on the valve inspection then 😬. Thanks for the comment and sharing your experience. 👍
Saw the Gold Star in the flesh last week and was impressed. I have ridden the Interceptor but the things that would tip me to the Gold Star is the old school character of the single cylinder and, as mentioned here, service intervals.
A single is oddly satisfying to ride, I had a DR350 for ages and I loved it. I briefly rode a Rotax powered BMW GS650, great engine feel. 👍
Valve clearance isn't a deal breaker, a mug of coffee and two or three cigarettes and job done.
I own an Interceptor and a Himalayan and most of the time they're spot on and don't need adjusting.
How much do they charge if no adjustment is necessary, versus doing an adjustment?
I agree, for someone who knows how to do it and wants to do it. I did my shim over bucket Daytona 1200 too and was happy to do so but lots of people just want to have a simpler ownership experience OR just haven't got the time or garage space.
@@daveinwla6360 It's included in the service charge, or in my case it's free, I do all the servicing myself with genuine parts. It's an easy job and no specialist tools required.
Paul, I recently bought a RE 350 REborn. UK expat now live in New Hampshire, US. My nearest dealer is a 2 hour one way ride and no public transport options. The valve clearance job is def do-able. And will make a good 'bonding' experience with the bike. Yes it would be a warranty issue, should anything go wrong. So be it. 'Ride With Warro' has a great 'how to'. Do you know of any other examples?
@@jamesdspaderf2883 - Do a UA-cam search on "Enfield 350 valve adjustment". There are many excellent how-to videos on that. They make you wanna DIY! :-)
Hi Terence, I have to say, this is about the best video out there, brilliant 😊 Thank you
You are too kind sir. I am enjoying the mutterings!
The old RE Bullets tappet adjustment was ease in itself, just remove the single screw cover to access the pushrods where adjustment is on the pushrods, spin freely with zero up & down play. The later efi Bullets had hydraulic tappets so no adjustment needed, now we have the OHC models with a screw & lock nut system that would have benefited being hydraulic.
Thanks for the info Bob, love the old inspection covers. I suspect Hydraulic would just be too expensive on these smaller cc bikes from all manufacturers. I was surprise Harley's new 1250 V-Twin had hydraulics as it doesn't half spin up some.
My local RE dealer said to me that at the first 500km service they don't even bother checking the valve clearance any more because it"s always been within spec when they have done it.
They would say that wouldn't they. So why do RE still keep putting it in the service manual? What happens to your warranty if you just take it to 6,000 miles and burn a valve out and RE look for proof it was checked? It is no excuse for a dealer not to at least measure the clearances, its not that hard.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff that's what I thought too.
@@skotty1962 that may be true! I'm guessing the dealer's mechanics should know this. And provided the service stamp is in the Owner's Manual, you're covered.
Hi Terance, great video. I own the CB1100RS and was thinking of downsizing and enfield was one of my options but having seen the BSA and the information I know now , and the less maintenance sounds good , even thou the job seems straight forward enough and working on the bike is part of biking, I feel less tinkering on the engine leaves more time for other things . My CB has done 15k now and have never thought about the valve clearance , as you touched on , forums and other CB owners have checked at the time and everything was spot on, The bike runs the same since the day a bought it and i can think of more things £600+ can be spent on. cheers for the info.
Cheers LaneSplitter, yes, a good choice as a downsize from the CB, I thought the very same when I rode the W800. I'll keep the CB for now as it is costing me very little to insure on a multibike policy. The RE and BSA are both going to fit the bill too but the BSA seems to be getting good feedback on comfort which as I age is more important than anything else. I'm just not mad on the RE's 88mm rear suspension travel, it will be very interesting to see what it is on the Gold Star.
Yeah it will be interesting to test ride the BSA , I love the CB but i only have the option of having the one bike so I'll test the water with the BSA .The only reason I'm thinking of changing is the running cost petrol wise, although the Honda does surprise me with it's MPG, never under stress it just purrs along, and I've had over 60 per gallon doing a tour in Scotland. I'll keep an eye on the channel see what you think when you test ride. Keep safe . cheers Kevin
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff
I had a CB1100XE too. I couldn't keep it though as I was constantly worried about being a custodian to all that lovely chrome and alloy. I sold it because it turned me into a dry day only rider. The RS is much easier to look after properly. It was also getting a bit heavy for me.
@@PhilipBallGarry Yes, that’s what the EX does for you, it’s just not a bike for winter riding with all that chrome. The BSA will be a good winter choice if that engine paint holds up.
@@PhilipBallGarry yep it's a bit of a task keeping them clean, and yep it's a heavy bugger. T he way things are going we will all be on lower capacity bikes shortly, too be fair it's all that's needed 50-70 Hp .
If the BSA ever becomes available, then we can talk about service intervals and reliability, all the BSA reviews and videos are irrelevant until we see bikes in show rooms.
They do have to get them out there yes. It has been a botched launch.
..could listen to ya all day Terry!! :)
Cheers Niall
Great stuff, this was one detail I could not find the answer for, having owned Japanese bikes, valve services are normally a once in a lifetime of the bike, won't make a difference for all, however good to know. I fall into your camp, can do them, would rather not have to :)
Yes, as times get tight and we all get squeezed for our own personal time this is another thing to drop off the list, very welcome to my mind.
Terrance you make a valid point on valve clearances and their intervals ,and ease of ownership. I am comfortable in doing my own valves of all types as per manual as I have years of practice and was trained well to do it right. However not many will ever take valve clearance intervals as one of main buying criteria. RE has shaken up the market for price conscious buyers, and Aldi or Lidl comparisons have crept in which is fine people have budgets to work with. But your spot on that the engineering gone to achieve that higher clearance will come to your advantage. BSA is more of less at the same price point as the RE twins plus minus a few hundred, but the rotax engine has possibilities of higher horse power, which can be done by a ECU tune
Many thanks for your comments. You are dead right, many won’t take the valve service schedules into account and that is why I am highlighting the fact, I’m trying to change the mindset a little😀. Britain is becoming increasingly poorer and impoverished as decades pass and Aldi and Lidl type bikes (nothing wrong with those brands) will be ever more popular. But in these parts at this level these bikes are still a luxury. In Ireland where I live there are extra taxes on bikes and Royal Enfield’s are not that competitively priced and are as expensive as anything else. So maybe, just maybe owning the RE here is just not a great proposition?
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I am not sure of your statement-: "Britain is becoming increasingly poorer and impoverished as decades pass" I am not clear how this statement mid paragraph on Motorcycles and service interval schedules fit into the general conversation? Maybe I am misreading or misunderstanding the point you are trying to make? Please do feel free to enlighten me.
@@johnokelly8166 it was your reference to Aldi and Llidl that prompted that part of my response. Britons are increasingly looking for cheaper motorcycles of this ilk rather than high end premium machines as reflected in a huge sales success of the RE bikes. Given that trend and the relatively low mechanical skill sets in the general population the BSA would seem to offer a good solution in both regards.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I am afraid you really do need to re read the posts on here! I made no reference to Aldi or Lidl, it's not my post, it's '@cjsingh4070 post. I had not made any comments at that stage. If you check, I think you will agree that I only contacted you on your remark.
@@johnokelly8166 OK John, fair enough, I replied in the wrong place.
Not nuclear physics setting locknut and screw tappets, 10mm spanner and set of feelers. A lot to be said for keeping things simple. The rest is simple oil drop and changing of screw on oil filter cartridge 🤔🙄
Agree completely, but you come from a position of being perfectly comfortable doing it which many are not.
My Yamha xv1900 road liner didn't have to have the valves done either because they were hydraulic (like the new Vee twin HD's) but that was a bike designed and built in the early 2000"s.
Yes, the big slow revvers can get away with the hydraulic design, I'm amazed HD managed it on the new, relatively high revving Revolution-Max 1250. There is a lot to like about that engine.
On my CB1100RS I had to change engine gasket as 16k miles, as it was sweating oil all around the engine.
I've also done valve clearance, and it's all seems to be within the limits.
Thanks for the feedback Dmitry. You are not alone on the valve cover gasket weaping on the CB1100 engine. Good to hear your 16k check was all good 👍.
I've admired the DIY maintenance ease of the Royal Enfield bikes, especially the screw-n-locknut valve adjustment.
But being forced to pay for dealer "servicing" by the threat of loss of warranty is a disappointing 2nd thought.
It will be revealing of RE's future direction to see the valve train of the upcoming 450cc Himalayan engine.
Just so Dave 👍
Excellent information, I've just tested a bsa and put deposit down.
Was considering an Enfield, but bsa looks nicer/classier, engine on the Enfield looks too big for the bike, and now I know about valves service's, I made the right choice..
I always thought the engine looked a bit squashed on the Enfield. Congrats on the new purchase.
While I may prefer to buy the BSA over the RE for other reasons the Valve adjustment on the Royal Enfield shouldn't put you off unless you really hate wrenching on your own motorcycle.
It shouldn’t but I am sure it puts off many who just don’t want to get involved in anyway. The BSA gives them that choice. Thanks for commenting 👍.
The new Goldstar 650 shims are £42 to£47 each on the Fowlers website ! 2 sparkplugs no centre stand ? I don't trust mechanics I do my own servicing and about to buy the RE interceptor because of this ,I expected the new Goldstar to be a more practical bike being made in by Mahindra .The motor is an old reworked Rotax unit which is ok I suppose ,my heart says BSA but my head says Enfield ,good reviews .
Thanks Steven. I am used to screw and locknut and would be happy to do them myself but I know a lot wouldn't be. Those Goldstar shims are excessively expensive but my guess is very very few owners are going to reach that service interval. I don't think there can be a wrong choice if you have considered the options. Good luck whichever you run with.
I bought a new 2001 Honda VT 1100 Shadow for $7,000.00 and drove it 12,000 or more a year. In 2020 my health got bad and I couldn’t ride anymore, I literally cried for months. I gave it to my son and she had 78,000 miles on it and road like it did when I bought it and I never😊 had to adjust the valve’s. VT 1100 had hydraulic self-adjusting lifter’s. All I had to do was put a new set of tires on it once a year and I changed the oil every 3,000 miles, no cam chain adjustment’s (it was self adjusting). In even rode it from Alabama to Montana and back in 2005, 4,000 mile’s in 7 days, and she never missed a beat. Man…I sure miss her.
Sorry to hear about your health problems Glenn, it was nice that your son could take on the bike on after you gave up riding. I think the VT1100 was the last Honda to have hydraulic lifters. The 80's four pot nighthawks were well known for it too. That was it, as long as you changed the oil frequently those engines just went on forever. Take care Glenn.
I think and I may be speaking in generalizations but personally I think what attracts most to purchasing decisions is performance, cost of ownership and overall budget. Maintenance costs or schedules of service requirements should not be a huge delta. I owned Corvettes in my life and just a basic oil change was $500.00 at the dealer. Tires were $1,000 a piece once a year, Car washing supplies, insurance and yes gas....it all adds up....the point I am making is buy what you like, ride what you like and stop picking the fly poop out of the rice. What I hate is the fact that TRIUMPH is requiring you to take you bike into them for basic service in order to shut off the service due light.....however I just found out about TuneECU and bought the app and OBD link will be doing my own oil changes and basic maintenance thank you very much. Shame on TRIUMPH for that bone head move. Yes you are right the average salesman does not want you to know...might be a good top 10 video coming soon to rant on. "What Motorbike Salesmen Don't want you to know" or "Marry a Indian woman and never worry about maintenance again" I will let you decide on that Terence.
There is a different mindset between North America and Europe. Europeans with everything on their doorstep are very used to dealer servicing and letting "someone else" do it whereas the ingrained NA spirit of of pushing west, self sufficiency, can do attitude would make you annoyed about that silly service light when you are taking care of things yourself. Thanks for the new content suggestions ;-)
Regarding ease of servicing, does the new Gold Star have a spin-on or cannister *oil filter* ?
That I don't know. I have an old fashioned paper element on my Triumph Daytona 1200 and they can be a little messier to replace but the paper elements are very cheap.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff you are saying about a service on a RE. And you got a D1200. Good luck doing the air filter and front sprocket. Think id rather do the RE valves lol.
@@paulmessenger1006 Tell me about it Paul, I know you are well versed. I have done the air filter of course but glad it is good for a gazillion miles so something not often done. Thankfully the front sprocket is all good, just keeping my fingers crossed on the sprag!
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff keep your battery well topped up and if running std battery get a YTX14AHL-BS
At last someone mentioned the elephant in the room👍 ! I own an RE 650 and I can confirm the short interval span for tappet adjustment is necessary and it's also a real pain. The engine cover is a pig to remove as there is very little wriggle room so it's best to remove the tank and loosen the abs bolts to give more room. The tappets are fairly straight forward but rotating the engine a few times after adjustment by hand reveales a lot of potential for error. One more thing 😲, replacing the cover while trying to keep the bloody gasket in place is a real pain in the arse too and it takes a lot of attempts due to the lack of manoeuvring room.
That being said I think the RE 650 is a great fun bike and if like me you have the time and patience to do the work yourself it's still a good option , but if I could do a straight swap for the BSA I would seriously consider it even though it's a bit ugly in my eyes due to the radiator .Whatever!! Happy biking folks😁
Great detailed insight Aladin Fox. I think there is great potential for home enthusiasts to make a right balls of this unless used to this type of work. The W800 is a masterclass as to how it should be done with shims and sliding rockers on the shaft, absolute genius. Agree, the RE650 is a class bike for the price although I do slag it on occasions, but only in jest.
The problem with RE 650 valve adjustment is having to take off the rocker cover and have a new gasket ready to go on, unless it is a rubber seal?
This is what always annoyed me (still annoys me) about my A65, having to replace the gasket with valve clearance checks. Lucky that when you get your ear in, you can hear if it is critical to do the adjustment or not. I have long wondered whether I could caste a rocker cover for the A65 with the same shape but have something akin to Triumph inspection covers on it or better still round ones on the front and an elongated cover on the rear like on a trident engine.
I think the RE650 will be a rubber seal by now. Many bikes are a pain to get them to sit exactly right now with so much electrics/electronics in the way. On my 90's Triumph I was lucky in that it only took the removal of two coils.........after removing mountains of plastic fairing! 🤣 Aah, inspection covers now wouldn't they be just great if they ever made a comeback. I wouldn't be good enough to rely on my hearing when riding different bikes all the time but if I lived with the same bike for long enough yes, I think you would get used to its sound. Spotting a quickly opening gap is easy enough, tougher to spot a slowly closing.🤣. Thankyou for your comments.
It’s a rubber seal and whole job takes me about 30 mins .
Let’s face it Terry, what are we really looking at in terms of cost? 3 x £200 tops for the 3 services to keep the warranty. And when you compare the cost of the 2 bikes; BSA £6500 vs RE £6039. we are looking at just £140 after which one could either do it yourself or a non-franchised dealer for little cost.
The meteor 650 could well over 7k.
The interceptor seems to start at £6200 now.
It's not really a biggy the service thing though.
But for that price difference I'm getting Brembo brakes, a painted engine which would suit me as I like a winter ride (not an issue for many I know) and what looks like to be a less crashy ride, that coming from test riders who have ridden both. I would be interested to see the dealer who charges £200 for an annual service which includes a valve service. RE UK showing the base bike at £6199 for single colour, £6399 dual and £6699 chrome tank. The BSA with its part chrome tank could be equated somewhere in the middle I would of thought making the difference nearer £400. But it's great to have the choice. 👍
I think if I had to choose on looks I'd go BSA.
The main reason I'd get the interceptor would be because I live close to a royal Enfield dealer and I know parts and repairs are not going to be any trouble.
I considered the benelli 400 but again I just think RE have the reputation and are less of an unknown quantity.
I can imagine the benelli rusting quite quickly.
But the Gold Star is a fantastic looking bike and if it wasn't over my maximum 6k budget I'd consider one.
Atm I'm looking at the 350 and 411 bikes as honestly I just don't ride fast anymore.
But yeah the short services aren't ideal especially if you're someone who does like 6k a year.
I'd probably only do about 2k , so no biggie for me.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff In reality things are more complicated than mere valve timing costs aren’t they? Let’s face it we are comparing the most established motorcycle company in the world who sell 800k bikes a year of many varieties to what boils down to a start up company with 1 bike as yet unproven, indeed no prospective customer owns one and won’t for some months ahead. A company that has already trashed their reputation from day 1 by delays. Money is not the only driver and for many, possibly most, not even a factor as these being largely luxury indulgences rather than transport. Your point is valid and true and it’s vital that people understand what they are investing in but to suggest BSA and performed “a blinder” over RE is somewhat of a stretch.
@@letni9506 I like the look and idea behind that Beneli 400 but it doesn’t seem to catch people’s eyes or imagination.
that is VERY interesting. thanks
thanks for watching Jason.
To be fair, my local dealer have been selling the RE650 since it came out and have a lot of practice doing valve clearance adjustments. They can offer the service for an hours labour which is reasonable. We considered the Interceptor before choosing our T100 but as we ride two up 90% of the time the pillion provision was an essential factor. The length of seat and pillion footpeg position was much better on the T100. Yes, I paid a considerable premium for our choice and Triumph's factory support has a lot to be desired. My next bike (in 18 months) might be either the BSA Goldstar or the Super Meteor though. The SM looks fantastic especially the fit & finish. It's not "heavy" compared to some of the bikes I've owned but I wonder if the power to weight ratio might be a little compromised because of it? I do like the choice of finish on the engine cases which look more durable than the polished alloy of the Interceptor. Tubeless rims also remove some of the worries if you intend to tour on the SM too. BSA have done a brilliant job on the new Goldstar and any potential issues experienced by the early adopters will be long gone by the time I'm ready to swap? Why not keep the T100 you might think? Well, that would be the ideal solutuion but at the end of the PCP I'm not sure I could finance the balance for an affordable cost given the current financial situation we're all facing and the interest rates available.
Yes, ones considerations and bike choices change appreciably once a pillion is involved. Triumph have a good history of providing bikes with excellent load capacities. The little 660 Sport has a greater load capacity than a BMW R1250GS for example, remarkable. That Super Meteor, looks a million $$$ but boy that weight? I know what you mean, the weight itself is not really the problem but not a lot of power to haul that weight. To put it into perspective it is within a few kg's of a Triumph Tiger 1200! I'm not sure if the BSA will be a good two up machine yet, there just isn't enough information on load capacities etc. On a positive note, you have all the excitement to come of a few test rides and choice of a new bike. Thanks for your thoughts.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff
Thanks Terry. My local dealer have the RE and BSA franchises so it'll be possible to road test them back to back. It might be of interest that we tested both the T100 and T120 back to back and found the former completely adequate without the additional cost. The T100 also handled slightly better due to it's single front disc and the fuelling was much sweeter with it's single throttle body. True, it can't cruise at 80mph like the T120 (6th gear) but that speed is incredibly uncomfortable for any length of time on a naked bike (and not legal) anyway. At 70mph in top (5th) the T100 is pulling 3500rpm which is roughly peak torque so it's incredible efficient. Not that we like A roads and motorways - using them only as a means to join up the twisty stuff 😉.
Oops! I went a bit off topic there didn't I? Sorry all 😇
@@PhilipBallGarry ha ha, no worries. That’s not the first time I have heard that about the T100 Vs the T120 actually so there must be something in it. Cheers 👍.
Very interesting 👍
Glad you think so!
I've just seen the royal Enfield shotgun omg. Xxx coming October ❤️❤️❤️❤️
It’ll go down well with the younger kids. Not too sure about that headlight bezel 😬,
I've got the honda vfr. Next one will defo be Brit classic. 😁🏍️
Bajaj is building a 350 for Triumph which will be out sometime next year
Yes, that is going to be very interesting. BSA looks like they are out of that size market for the foreseeable future. It is interesting that Honda don't bring the Honda Highness 350 out in this part of the world where RE can thrive with their 350 single.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Exactly . The Honda CB/GB 350 is a very good motorcycle. Even the Japs use the Indian model in their market. Really don't know why Honda has not used that sucess in the other parts of the world.
Until you can actually buy one it will not be a problem for Royal Enfield. It needs be available.
That is very true of course, the longest release in history. They shouldn't have go to the Birmingham show in 2021.
Another great thought provoking video. I guess if RE insist on you taking your bike to them for services or loose your warranty then whether you can do it you or not becomes irrelevant! Yes, I think the engine in the BSA is a Rotax and that’s not to be sniffed at eh? Many UA-camrs felt the BSA is the better bike, and still a great price. I’d have one for sure.
Me to, it's quite a looker.
I still prefer the broad shouldered look of the RE 650 engine and don’t consider adjusting screw type valves to be any big deal.
Obviously, there is more to cost of ownership than valve clearance checks. For example, the watercooling system and replacing all those tacky BSA stickers...
Yes, but think of all the savings on not having to replace the shocks or pay for anymore physiotherapists visits. The new 450cc single from RE is going to be watercooled, would you not consider it because of that?
As decimate means 1 in 10, I agree that is the amount of sales BSA might take from RE, even though the Int and GT are far better value, better finished and just better looking.
Really ? most people I have spoken too think the BSA is a far better looking bike and as for finishing
the closer you get to an Interceptor the worse it gets . its one of the few bikes that looks far better in
the pictures than in the flesh where the crude finishing, welding and component quality really begins
to show. Park one next to a budget Japanese bike and its night and day.
@@WyreForestBiker Those engine covers? Tank badge? Looks like cheap ABS plastic. My Int is well finished and the welds are neat and tidy, far better than my HD Dyna and almost on par with my Triumph. The BSA is overpriced, sounds good but next to the Int, for me it's not contest.
I think a ride is in order, by all accounts the BSA runs a little smoother and I do find the RE650 a bit crashy on the suspension. But people will vote with their pocket and BSA have to actually make enough to sell them!
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I agree, the rear suspension is a bit pants, to be honest! Hit anything bigger than a Harley owners wallet and you know about it!
One problem, no bikes in showrooms yet.
See, your'e already not doing valve services. 😬
The "shim under bucket" style I first encountered on my Rover 2000 dating from the 1960s and they were an absolute nightmare to set as it involved removing the cam shaft every time you got it wrong, so for me it ain't the greatest innovation.
Things have come a long way since then. My parents had the same car, it was a wonderful tank. Part of my point was most owners will never get to that mileage on this sort of bike.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff But those that do . . .
@@soloperformer5598 of course. 👍
So what ? The Enfield is proven has good spares back up and of course Hitchcocks for wonderful service and extras. BSA is a Mahindra well known for poor customer service and spares backup so long term owners may be difficult and potentially poor.
Oh yes, Mahindra will have to prove themselves, balls it up and people will leave the brand. This manufacturing in the UK does look a bit wobbly I will say. But they have to say they will do it along with EV research to take the UK Government grants. That bit is smoke and mirrors, no more than what Triumph are doing I suspect.
I'll keep my Interceptor, in Ravishing Red ! ... and with 20 bikes in the stable I do all my valve adjustments except the Italian singles. I don't do " shims ". UA-cam is full of pundits blowing the BSA horn, but nothing compels me find my wallet. As to date.... there are no BSA dealers in my area and I've asked several dealerships..... no one plans on putting then on the showroom floor. 😎
Choice is a great thing but 20 bikes is a lot! Do you put enough individual mileage on any to do a valve service? 😀😀. There is no BSA dealer in Ireland yet either, I think it will take some time here, we have an odd market here. Never say never 👍. Thanks for the comment.
On a 2004 vstrom 650 its valve check when you bother😄😄.
🤣
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff how was you 1200 at first valve check? Any ajustment?
@@toby7504 11 out of 12 on the Tiger 1200 plus the camshaft did need the adjust for the slackened chain Toby.
If only the goldie had another 3ltrs in fuel capacity,, 150 ish miles between fill ups 🤔🤔🤔
A little bit more would be nice sure 👍 but I can imagine 95% of owners only doing 50-100 mile rides at a time.
If any one is that worried best stay in doors and draw the curtains.
Yes Michael. Also, anyone who gets upset by a video they don't have to watch best stay clear of computers and the internet lest they get offended.
Do you have to take the camshafts out to adjust the clearance on the gold star? That's not exactly a simple task and if you pay the labour will cancel out the vast majority of the savings of the RE more frequent changes...I personally hate shim bucket valve systems with a passion for this reason and wouldn't buy a bike with it for that reason. Having said that I do 20 thousand kms a year min so the ease of adjustment is a big factor for me
I think you know the answer to your question and I stated you do, so? My point was the greater majority of owners of these bikes will do reasonably low mileage and quite likely will never encounter the adjustment at all. Seeing as you are in km, they won't have to look at this until 38,624km. I like shim/bucket systems because in many bikes they can just be completely ignored. But I do have three vehicles with screw and locknut adjustment and can get on with those just fine too.
@Terence O'Keeffe's Motorcycle Stuff (TOMS) yeah that's fair. I'd just hate to be taking camshafts off and re doing timing every year and a half. I'd also be dreading the milage knowing the labour costs incoming for paying someone to do it.
8:02 that was a hilarious banter! it is true, though; we can macgyver our way around things.
You certainly can!
One of the strong selling point of the Royal Enfield 650 is the sound, how can the BSA beat that ?
More and more manufacturers go for the parallel twin with 270 crank. I was shocked at the news of BSA releasing a 650 single that sounds like a dirt bike
How times change. I loved the old school 360 crank on the W800 I rode, the true //twin British crank/firing order. Royal Enfield and their new fangled 270 firing order, it's heresy I say, heresy!
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff sales numbers are speaking louder than comments. Internet is full of RE videos. Triumph ditched the 360 crank in favour of the 270 which is clear sign that the engine sound is a strong selling point
@@danscram Yes, I completely agree with you, I was being a little tongue in cheek. RE are very well established and BSA will have a steep climb ahead of them but they will undoubtedly take RE sales with this bike. For every guy that likes a 270 crank twin there's a guy who likes a single thumper too.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff i’m not going to lie, I really like the BSA’s design more than the RE’s. Only time will tell…ride safe !
So the R.E is a rattler! Hence the frequent valve adjustment. The Gold Star with valve clearance stability says a lot about the quality of the engine.
I think so.
I have a classic 500 and although old design it has hydraulic tappets that are self adjusting why dont all manufacturers do this.
It is a great design but is harder to implement in higher revving engines. Having said that Harley’s Pan America is a hard revving engine and copes just fine. I suspect it is all down to price.
I have vivid memories of my mate doing his shims and 'fuggin' buckets back in the day. I felt for 'them'.
And what biker does 2,000 miles a year? I'm on 22,000 three years into the RE 650. It's a peach, and the tappets are not just a doddle, but a pleasure.
Shims, buckets and pronouns? You're welcome to them.
Nono, you can have the pronouns! 😬😀. You only have to look at the hundreds of bikes for sale in this category on Auto-trader to see what sort of mileage is done on them annually. At your mileage you are the exception and I agree adjusting the valve clearance is easy. But it is not easy for many and I would say most owners are not inclined towards doing them themselves. Safe travels 👍.
You have absolutely right, but the twin cylinder will last better from a single cylinder engine.
Also it has only 5 speed transmission gears.
Also, make a video about the T120 & Speedmaster engine service intervals.
I read at youtube that 1200cc engine has reliability issues with their transmissions & Triumph hasn't solved it yet.
I don't know how widespread that Triumph gearbox issue is, it is hard to tell I think a lot of these sorts of bike do low annual mileage and any issues lurking tend not to get exposed. I don't mind five speed bikes If they are ratioed well and have an engine characteristics to make good use of it. Five speed used to be "luxury" compared to the old 3 or 4 speed vehicles.
Sorry valve adjustment isn't all that difficult if you can remember righty tighty and lefty losey. Considering that it is a simple screw type lash adjuster vice many bikes out there that use shim under bucket that requires you to remove the cam to service the lash if one is out of specs. From what I have heard from numerous sources, the Royal Enfield bikes go quite a while before you actually have to adjust the lash. So this is a big issue being presented for for absolutely NOTHING. Have been twisting wrenches for over 50 years on my equipment. A good example is that most people didn't know that the old Dodge slant 6 had solid lifters, well the last couple of years had hydraulic lifters, have seen them with over 200k without lash adjustment. Buddy of mine had one he got used and knew the history since new, the valves had never been adjusted in his Dodge pickup, had a leaking valve cover gasket so we pulled it to change gasket and found that the valves were still within specs, but a little on the tight side with only 240k miles.
“Valve adjustment isn’t all that difficult…….” As I have said to many others in the comments. Not difficult for you. Others are challenged by time constraints, lack of available working space, limited mechanical skills or just total lack of interest in wrenching. I maintain my point is valid and the RE provided the perfect comparison as the obvious targeted competitor. 240k miles is some going, a testament to the designers of the day. Thanks for the interesting story 👍.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff This actually follows through the younger generation. Most of those 40 and below, can't even check the oil in their vehicle. We have raised a generation or so that are basically helpless, but experts in video games and such. These people should not be on a motorcycle for any reason, even as a passenger, and I can support that statement with experience. These are the same individuals that put people down because they are not computer-literate. The kids are now in their late 30's and early 40's and were taught to use their hands and minds, at the same time. They are finding that they can get good employment rapidly as they are skilled.
@@thomasheer825 just so 👍
Euro 6 ? I feel that combustion engines have reached the ceiling
Quite possibly Stephen, but I think it will be around for a long time yet, long enough for someone to add more restrictions.
Valid point but many buts. The Owneeship is more than just warrenty period. Many will home sevice their bikes after and how many will poo the bed when it comes to doing BSA shims. The Enfield is not service shims every year. But 6k. The Inty could be done by the roadside, its that simple.
Can a BSA be moified? From day one you could get high comp pistons, 750 kits 865 kits what is a ailable for BSA? Didley squat.
If you were buying a BSA and bought with your eyes. We all love our bikes right. Don't look at the left side.
What I was eluding too though Paul was that many, maybe most of the owners will never get round to doing the valve service on the BSA as they will just not put that much mileage on the bike. Most owners of these style bikes do not seem to be putting big mileage on them but using them for sunny days out. I have no problem with that at all, I have such a bike too. There will always be the exceptions of course. The RE service schedule specifically states an annual valve service regardless of mileage so that is where that comes from. Out of warranty an owner can decide to do whatever they like of course. I'm not surprised there is not much aftermarket stuff out for the BSA yet, there are none for sale yet so early days. If I went to the trouble of putting and 865 kit on an RE I think I would of just bought a larger engined bike in the first place, I don't see the point.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff all valid points, yes 865 is an undertaking. Not one for me.
Easy job checking the valves on the RE650.. not an issue. Better to care for your bike and not rely so much on the 'experts'
Is an invalidated warranty due to lack of dealer service an issue?
@@daveinwla6360 As I mentioned Dave, yes, increasingly so. The dealer I spoke to said the all three of his manufacturers are now looking for full proven service intervals to validate any warranty work now. Manufacturers were subject to the same pressures as anyone due to the pandemic, they aren't all awash with cash.
Service interval would influence my choice. 6000 miles is incredibly low this day and age.
A quick oil change maybe but yes, very low for a valve check. The BMW 1250 isn’t brilliant at 12,000 miles but at least checking them is a very quick job.
I was surprised by such a biases review can't help but wonder if this guy is on the BS A sales team or and ambassador
for them
I only stated facts so not sure where the bias comes in? To put your mind at rest am not connected with BSA in any capacity.👍
On checking with a Royal Enfield dealer the yearly service you highlight about is a cost of around £190 - £200 including valve adjustment which by comparison to most other bikes sold in the UK is very cheap indeed most other bikes would cost around that with vat inc for a ordinary oil service yearly.
What our local BSA dealer here on the south coast told me they have to get all parts from a large multi franchise bike dealer in Bristol they won't holp parts themselves in stock it would interesting to see how much that large cooling radiator on the Goldstar cost to replace!!!
Call me naive, but why can't modern bikes have zero-maintenance hydraulic valve lifters like cars? Sure there's a good reason - would like to know what it is.
Cost! There has been plenty of precedent, especially from Honda way back. The new Harley 1250 motor revs it’s tits off, pumps out 150HP, but manages to use a hydraulic lifter, an absolute peach of an engine but then you pays for it! What say you? 👍😀
For the U.S. Market, I don't see a $ 7000 single as a threat to R.E. Singles don't have a huge following, especially compared to smoother twins. Why pay the same amount of money for a bike with half the engine of a R.E. RE's singles are cheaper and better focused for specific purposes. R.E's Himalyan is a better tourer, commuter, off road bike than the BSA. Watercooling means more maintenance by virtue of an additional system to maintain. RE's are easily user serviceable and valve adjustments are ridiculously easy. My RE Continental is slow, but it is still fast enough to be entertaining. I don't want anything slower, I.E. BSA.
Test rides seem to indicate the BSA has similar performance to the RE650 twin with many praising the lower rev range grunt. The bike has been universally praised for its smoothness so no lumpy old KLR style thumper here.(which do seem incredibly popular in the USA). BSA does not have a model in the Himalyan style/price bracket so that is really apples and pears. I did say valve adjustment was easy, do it all the time myself. But easy for me and easy for you and many others but lots and lots of people do not find it easy or have the inclination to spanner on their own bikes. Half the engine? Half the pistons twice the camshaft but not really a valid point. That's like saying my CB1100 there is better than a 1700cc $35K Harley because it has four pistons instead of two. I'm just talking about a motorcycle here, not your first born child.😅
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff CB 1100 better than a harley? Well, that depends on what you plan to do with it. For sheer performance, my money is on the CB. For cruising comfort (depending on Model) or the aura of "Americana" perhaps the Harley. There in lies the rub. The BSA is not very focused, even as much as the Interceptor. The Interceptor is also general purpose retro motorcycle that was air and oil cooled and still is and even harkens back to the original with engine cases and looks that truly keep in spirit with the original. The BSA is a frame that has a liquid cooled Rotax engine (not lauded for reliability) heaped on it with a barn door radiator. Not all that nostalgic. Tastes differ, so I guess it depends on how much nostalgia you can stand or stand to sacrifice. Yes the Himalayan is a Thumper, one that will not be called upon for endless miles of high speed, but will manage 70 comfortably. It's Thumper torque is for where you need it most. Low speed off road. The BSA may have torque. But It's riding position is wrong for top end. It's torque will not see "Off road". So I have to ask. What is it for? I chose the Continental Gt to maximize top end performance and handling and I bet, along with the Interceptor It will out perform the BSA in any "road bike" category you would care to measure. Except maybe 0 to 30? The beauty of motorcycling is our ability to choose such a wide variety of wonderful tools to do our bidding. Try not to take it so personal. Your mileage or opinions may very.
@@Phuc_Socialist_You_Tube It’s all relative, a W800 owner might lament the ugly oil cooler slapped on the front of an Interceptor? But yes, it’s great we all have a choice and are richer for it. My video was outlining what might affect one’s choice in terms of servicing comparing two bikes. In this neck of the woods these sort of bikes are purchased for scooting around the country lanes on a sunny Sunday day and are not serious tourers, scratchers or cruisers. The used bike market is overflowing with 2nd hand RE650’s with very little mileage. I’ll leave it there so, be good! 👍😬😁
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff There are always posers who have to run out and buy what they think everyone else will envy them on, only to find out its not for them. Harleys are like that in the states. I hope BSA succeeds. There was a time you couldn't give me an RE. Pre Siddhartha Lal days. RE has earned itsarket share. If BSA does, then perhaps I'll be inclined to pick one up. Only god knows what future models could be in store. Maybe from a poser who was kind enough of absorb depreciation, leaving the bike with low miles. Cheers and best wishes.
@@Phuc_Socialist_You_Tube and the same to you, Happy Christmas. 👍
Uncle Stu won't review the BSA until the units are installed, and make an appearance and for sale by the dealers. Until now only biker journo units were available. That decision to 'buy or not to buy' will be predicated on a lot more than any worry about valve clearance! Not least the Company itself and it's shaky reputation. Just sayin'.....
You are right of course. Not sure why he is taking that stance on the BSA though, it will arrive and the demo units are here to ride, seems a bit dramatic? They don't have form on the Goldstar yet and in reality it cannot be delivered right now as you say. It could fall flat on its face but i hope not. The valve clearances won't matter if owners don't ride them, there are a lot of very low mileage 650's out the for sale, one has to wonder if this is a comfort issue with older riders? The Goldstar seems to be suspended quite differently by all accounts which may garner a high approval rate. We'll see. Cheers James.
I just wasted 10 minutes of my time learning that the new BSA has a long period between valve services compared to the old fashioned nut and screw RE , and that RE's excellent warranty is dependant upon the owner getting timely valve services.
I am a mechanic. I like to own things I can fix myself at a pinch. I hate bucket and shim engines. They can be expensive and nightmarish to repair. I think I would go for the Enfield.
P.S. I don't think I heard you mention the length of the BSA warranty did I ?
No you didn’t hear me, I stated it was 3 years.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Cool. That's a great warranty. Thanks for putting me straight.
Great looking bike.
Forgive my scepticism , but I am dubious about. Rotax. I rebuilt several of their two strokes out of jet boats. Very tricky to get running properly after a salt water induced rebuild .
I vowed never to work on one again, not withstanding that the BSA engine is a 4 stroke , the name Rotax still gives me the jitters.
@@graememorris7820 No no. i was referring to the RE warranty of three years, I thought you were eluding to that. It is two years on the Gold Star. I think that Rotax engine has proven itself in other implementations to give some peace of mind. But your experience...once bitten! I know how you feel. 😬
Go on a Terry, spill the beans which main dealer was a naughty boy?
I won’t say, it was a big enough well known dealer and the service book is stamped. 😉
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff Well, I'd never suggest it was
A1 Moto in Yorkshire, though some may do so?😉
@@grayjohn1906 🥶
It’s pointless comparing a single bucket with a twin . Why buy a single style classic if you really want a twin . It’s not as if doing valves is hard & as you know the screw & lockout even easier . What usually takes the time is removing all the stupid Euro gubbins in the way . I always junk the guarantee once I have had chance to assess ,that I haven’t been lumbered with a Friday afternoon lemon & do the servicing myself . I only know of 2 old school mechanic dealers ,most of them are now kids still wet behind the ears ,& others no more than glorified part fitters .. Last time I bought a new motorbike & had it serviced under warrantee period ,I kept. getting less of my bike back ,missing nuts bolts & screws & finally damage . Also not once did they tell me to leave the bike the night before ,to allow it to cool for valve check & set, because they never touched them ,just gave it an oily rag & an oil change & tightened the chain like a banjo string . I service repair & build my own ,that way I know it’s been done correct . Most dealer service stamps aren’t worth the paper they are stamped on ,never had a problem selling any of my bikes just on their merit . If you’re buying an Indian or Chinese budget bike ,you can always upgrade things like tyres ,brake lines & pads & suspension as they wear out ,like we always did with the Japanese bikes & any other bike come to think of it .
Your attitude to warranty is something that I think is very widespread. It must be especially more common where dealers are 100's of miles away and the cost of getting the bike there and back just doesn't make it worth it. You say adjusting the valve clearances are not that hard, not for you but it is for many and there are those that just don't want to get involved at that level. Think of many urban owners with little or no service space, just disposing of old oil is a chore. In those instances dealers look attractive. But yes, can you even trust a dealer to have the skills to do the basic work, something I was eluding to. Thanks for the comment 👍.
Making a mountain out of a molehill
For some maybe but not for others possibly.
One valve service a year is only 2 services to keep your 3 year warranty, re proven tec, better looks, I'd say bsa have more problems.
Plus the first at 500 miles.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff 300miles actually, but it's hardly a bank breaker, most interceptors e4 at least haven't needed the warranty, time will tell with the bsa,
Worth it 10 times over ? Really ? Unproven company and unproven bike ! They could fold in 6 months ! The hype behind these BSA's isn't justified !
No, you are right, they have to prove themselves. I think the hype is excitement more than anything else. 👍
Whilst it is true about the valve clearance I suspect that the majority sales for these bikes will be the home Indian market.Having spent a bit of time in India on bikes in the last 20 years, it seems many people do home servicing. Many others take bikes to local mechanics , often little more than a hut on the side of the road. Adjusting a lock nut tappet is dead easy . Certainly something within the capability of an average home mechanic with no training. I can do a tappet service on an Enfield in under 30 minutes at no cost at all.
A shim change to adjust the tappets , on a BSA will cost at least the price of each shim that needs changing. This means stripping the rocker box , measuring the shim and then purchasing one. Adding a week or so delivery time for the home mechanic or the back street dealer. Or forcing use of a main dealer at considerable extra expense. Fine for your wealthy first world owner who has no ability or desire to look after their own vehicle ; but will they be the majority of the likely market?
You are completely accurate that the majority of western owners who pass vehicles on quickly will never need to address this issue. Serious riders and those enthusiasts who enjoy home maintenance may feel otherwise? I certainly would never again own a bike that had shims, my Zeds in the 80’s and 90’s cost far to much money in shims where as BMW , Harley , Hondas , Enfields and others cost no more than a bit of time to adjust.
All good points well made and my remarks were aimed at the typical buyer in Europe. Although an easy task many would still shy from doing this themselves. I was trying to make that point about India as well in that this is a non issue for them. Our sales here are meager compared to the Indian market but foreign currency sales are good for RE. Having said that are spy shots emerging of RE’s latest 450 single being water cooled? It seems the next logical step and I can’t see the Indians shying away from a shim swap either if it goes that way even if it does mean a camshaft coming out every 24,000 miles. Thanks for the detailed response 👍.
Thanks for response. I guess we are in agreement . Not that it matters ,debate is fun. For anyone who has not seen the BSA in person I would urge you to its a cracking looking bike.
@@philroberts5537 yes, I saw it at the NEC show and sat on it Phil, looks very well. No dealers appointed in Ireland as yet but distribution here has its challenges!
Me too at NEC .I.must say the reviews are very promising too. Let's hope they sort a dealer network before they loose credibility. I hear suspension and seating are up on Enfield with a lower seat height which will suit those who malingered in their childhood instead of growing taller🤣
@@philroberts5537 that’s what you get for not eating your 🥗 🥦 🥕.
Just scare tactics , i can do my suzuki dr650 valves in 45 minutes including removing the seat , tank etc . i just bought a continental gt650 no regrets .... shim valve jobs suck having to remove cams etc no thanks .
Not scare tactics, just facts. You might be very skilled at it but the majority are not.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff I should have thought of that but at least it will be cheaper to get done and if someone wants to learn it is one of the easier valve adjustments to do .
@@13ratchet it certainly is. But I suspect (but don’t know) the new Watercooled 450 single Royal Enfield are developing will be using shims too.
Harley davidson valve clearance service intervals = never ever. 😁
Got to love Hydraulics!
So easy to do the valves on an Enfield...what's the problem?
Your typical Enfield owner will actually enjoy the job.
I don't mind doing them myself either but people who don't want to do it or can't won't buy it for that very reason which may lead them to the BSA?
Gee 24.000mls between valve gap checks.....WWWWWWaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy to long.
It is a well known tried and tested Rotax engine, I think they are very comfortable with it.
Sorry, But you are talking absolute tripe,
The law has changed with regards to Warranties,
Service's can be carried out by a competant person, as long as you use recommend oil's, Genuine part's,
And keep All your recipes,
You should check this out,
Because UK Law on warranty work has changed,!
Whilst the Interceptor 650 was designed from the ground up,😅
Cheers Paul Foster
Don't hold back or anything Paul ! 😯 I am aware of the UK warranty situation. I was aluding to the fact that most owners do not want to take care of valve service maintenence. They either don't have the time to adjust them themselves (or value their time elsewhere) or don't have the capability to adjust them. In some geographies the interval is as little as 3,000 miles for the valve clearance check. So what are those owners to do apart from paying for that service at a dealer OR just taking a gamble? What would you suggest? If you do the valve servicing yourself how do you prove this to RE in the event of a warranty claim? If it was my bike I would do them myself but I am that way inclined, most are not. Having said all that I have recently seen a growing number of vdeoes on the awful trade-in values been offerred on the RE's, quite shocking. Given this scenario I wouldn't put a penny into dealer services as it would not seem to add any value whatsoever come sale time. But that will always be the case with cheap bikes from any manufacturer. I service my own Daytona 1200, including valve shim swaps and my CB1100EX never see's a dealer but I have no warranty with either of those bikes either.
All makes ofmotorcycles at the moment are not doing very well in the Part exchanging deal,
It's just the way it is at the moment ,
Also I have said, you provide proof to any make of Motorcycle for a potential warranty claim, By keeping your recipes, also mileage time's of work carried out,
Photo's if required,
They are required to except this now by law,
I except for some people this is not an option, but it's certainly not a reason not to buy a bike because of costs you may incur,
Cheers Paul Foster
Lol, valve adjustments are easy on a RE. Nice try.
Easy for you maybe. Many others don’t find it easy or just don’t have the facilities to do it or even the inclination to do it.
I loved the comment about pronouns! 😂
:-) I refuse to be drawn in by that garbage!
Softly...you are upsetting Uncle Stuart!!! He's spend a lot of time and effort singing RE praises and you've just undone him.
😁🤣 no Christmas Card for me this year!
My bikes' valve clearances are fine but my pronoun proficiency is a mess., just the way I like it. 🙂
100% :-)
Most people in the UK can't do anything themselves. They can't even change an electric plug.
If the shit hits the fan you know where most of the population will be sucking their thumbs looking to the Government for help. Around here we get a strong wind and they close all the schools.
@paulroberts7561 Really??? Where are you living in outer Mongolia.
@@johnokelly8166 actually most people here in Ulaanbaatar are quite capable of stripping down and rebuilding their tractor completely.
@@paulroberts7561 Your reply makes no sense with your original post, in fact it's totally contradictory.
Anyone who links valve service intervals with pronouns gets a subscription from me 😂
🤣, I identify as "I'm a twat", please address me as so.
A simple valve service so what
Simple to you maybe.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff if U cant work on your bike why ride them
@@kerrykelly2707 what a stupid comment.
That guy talks a load of Rubbish….
Thanks for the considered analysis of my content ROGER BEEDHAM. Always great to get the experts view on these things, especially when so well articulated. Made you watch….
Good video. I didn't buy an RE because of the valve check requirements. I thought the servicing was too quick and short, here at least in Australia it's every 5k or 6 months. No thanks. Imagine, you're already putting lube on your chain, tensioning it, then also oil every 6 months and checking its valves all the time. You're working on it more than you're riding it. I went with a CB300R instead, more reliable, more power, I see the CB300R as in competition with the Hunter 350, it's a better bike in every way.
I 100% agree and that is the exact choice I would make if I was in the market for something of that nature. The CB300R is a fantastic bike and you know it will just work.