i legit feel that. i've gotten into punk rock, which is way faster and requires a lot more control than I'm used to, and I realized just how legitimately terrible I am at drums, especially after 11 years starting when I was 5
that's actually called the Dunning-Kruger Effect... makes you feel like you're not improving or getting worse but it actually just seems like you are (because the longer you've been learning something the more you know about a subject and how much you don't know/ can't do yet) and you just aren't noticing that you're actually getting better and better:)
That's always the mentality that most people have cause you think you know so much until your finally shot back down to earth. Like most drummers I can play pop and rock songs fairly easily, but when it comes to really fast punk songs it's only a matter of time before I cramp up or just drop my sticks from holding them too loose to try and play faster. So I feel I'm anywhere from high beginner to low intermediate right now.
It's funny how Drumeo is so humbling. I'm 66 and counting. Been drumming since I was 12. Took many breaks over the years but now pretty much play everyday. I've learned so much watching this channel. You guys have really put me in my place. Some days I think the sky is the limit and other days I think I should have taken up the flute. But when I gig with my classic rock band and get tons of compliments it makes it all worth it...sorry for rambling on but.........Thank you guys. You've come a long long way. Get Ringo on the show!
Improving on drums is so difficult, unlike on guitar, i find that its much harder to know what to practice to see results. Typically on guitar like when im practicing scales or whatever i usually come out the other side seeing results. Its easy to identify weakness. But on drums its not as obvious, its like working out. You dont really see the results immediately, its a slow overtime process that requires a ton of patience and confidence. That may just be me though
Word. That's one of the most frustrating things in being a multi-instrumentalist. With drums, I know what I want in my head. I have a clear vision of the beat, the pattern, the arrangement but when I sit on the throne, I'm like a monkey wondering what to do with two sticks
Very well said! As a beginner I am astounded at countless hours just to get something like basic sticking. Tons of fun but progress is in the sub millimeter level.
I’d say there’s beginner, intermediate, advanced, and then another level past that, pro/master/god level is well past advanced. So you can say you’re advanced and still put yourself in a lower category than the best of the best.
I agree with the idea, though I wouldn't do that as putting guys like that on a god tier level might make people think their skill level is unattainable, when it's usually not. Its all knowledge and practice. The "gods", probably more often than not, did very little with their lives besides obsess over their instrument. And that's not a bad thing, just where those differences are made
That's basically where I feel I'm at too. I'd definitely call myself advanced at this point, but I wouldn't ever have the audacity to compare myself to some of the greats. Maybe in another 20 years I'd be able to hold a candle to some of them hahaha
I would say 1. Beginner - Lars Ulrich, acdc drummer 2. Intermediate - most recreational drummers Advanced - me lol Master class - Mike Portnoy World class - ex. Mike Mangini , Neil Peart, Thomas Lang
It is all relative. If people see me playing at a jam session go oh yeah he’s on it but that is because I know the songs but the few times I have been asked to sit it at a jazz jam session I was floundering. Also the advanced drummers you mention may look at other drummers who blow their mind like Vinnie C or Virgil Donati and Dave Weckl and go they are advanced I’m intermediate. It is all relative but the main advice I give young drummers is forget technique, chops etc just get in a band as soon as you can and enjoy yourself. I joined my first band 6 weeks after buying my first kit and I wasn’t even at the beginner mark as I couldn’t even play a single stroke roll but there are always workarounds I didn’t learn any technique until after 2 years of giggling constantly.
they ARE all intermediate or below. Kyle is the most experience guy in the entire organization, with the most time playing at the highest levels of anyone there. He's toured, played on projects, does sit-ins and knows his stuff inside and out. But is he one of the best drummers in the Vancouver area? Nope. There are other guys that are much more advanced and he'd be the first guy to tell you that.
I completely agree I would personally two other levels called "advanced" & "expert" and would place Dave, Jared and many others that underrated themselves at high intermediate or advanced and myself at intermediate.
Been playing for 12 years. I guess I'm a beginner in intermediate. After 12 years playing and most of that only to play with a band and little actual practice, I'm finally learning rudiments. When I started I felt so stupid, it's supposed to be basic and I just couldn't do it. But I'm starting to get the hang of double strokes and I feel so excited to work towards actually becoming a better drummer. Thanks for all the great advice, guys! And to anyone out there who feels stuck, I can now testify that if you practice, little by little you'll get better! Cheers, everyone!
I've played for 44 years and still know Jack shit! I also have taught the drums for 22 years. WE ALL should be able to find new things to learn as well as relearning things you thought you could play well!!! t The learning should ONLY stop at our final breath!
The weirdest part of playing live was getting glowing feedback from people, being asked in analytical ways about something I played, and trying to still be able to actually feel good about my performance. I know my weaknesses and playing around my weaknesses/nerves on stage always kept me humble. Even before watching this video I was thinking to myself that there was no way I was even intermediate, I mean maybe I could’ve been, but wasn’t sure. Once I watched I was pleasantly happy and honestly pretty fucking proud of myself to call myself a high intermediate. I’m aware of everything I can do well, and where my weaknesses lie. I can check off every box presented in this video. I’m honestly pleasantly surprised! Thank you for making this very insightful video!
Dude... Jared always explains things in such a comprehensive, unintimidating way. This dude is a fantastic drummer, but lets also praise that freakin' way he communicates perfectly too
I played drums in my youth for roughly 10 years, almost exclusively rock / metal. Most of that time was spent playing with a band and way too little actual practice... so, now, almost 20 years later, I'd say I'm a good beginner rock drummer and I'm fairly good at improvising in that genre, but my vocabulary is pretty small and I know next to nothing about anything but rock / metal drumming.
Exactly my experience. When I used to play with a band, my drums were always set up at someone else's house. I am self taught and after learning how to keep beats like bands on the radio do, my actual time on the drums was 90 percent practicing with the band. Very little time actually playing or practicing solo. Maybe a few minutes before band practice, but usually within a few minutes of trying to groove a bit, the bassist would start jammin with me and then right into band practice. Never took time to learn rudiments or practice drills, but was still always a pretty good rock/metal drummer. Then after getting married and having kids, the whole band thing fizzled and I'm lucky to get down to the basement and screw around for 15 minutes at a time or so, maybe a couple times a month. I can rock a drum set pretty well and impress people when I'm playing what I WANT TO PLAY! But when I get online and see what some of these guys and girls do with paradiddles and other things that I never learned, I feel so insignificant. Sometimes I just want to burn my kit after I watch these guys. There's SO much room for improvement! But I'm gonna keep on bangin, and at almost 40 years old and 25 years playing I think I'm actually going to drill on some basic rudiments and see if I can get to another level.
Exactly my experience. Playing for 25 years now, with 20 years of rockband-experience. Right now I consider myself to be some kind of a beginner cause I realize my techniques can be sloppy at times. But I think it’s because the more you know (bout drumming) the more you realize what you don’t know. I guess the same thing might be true for you.
Same here guys. I feel pretty good about my drumming until I see some 10 year old kid blasting out jazz fusion on UA-cam and then I'm reminded that I know freakin nothing.
It sure is. I've had 2 times in my life, college, & now during this pandemic, where i had REAL TIME to PRACTICE HARD. BOTH times ive spent no less than 4, w/ an avg of 6, & often going 8-10 HOURS EVERY DAY..... & Now my savings is gone, but it was worth it 🤣🤣😁😁 I find Drums is ALOT like weight training, really..... U gotta keep @ it, but you gotta allow yourself time to recover too..... With that said, no matter how many hours i put in, its always good to take an entire day or 2 to just rest & recover. Drums are VERY PHYSICAL & it can do wonders. Just dont take TOO MUCH TIME OFF 🤣🤣🤣
Great video lesson Jared. Three years ago at Drumeo (one of the best weeks of my life) I said I thought I was an advanced beginner if that is possible. The comment about knowing you have so much more to learn is so true. I now think I am a beginner who has ten years of trying to play. Drums are so interesting. You can teach a non-player how to do a very basic rock beat in 20 minutes if he or she has some coordination. And she or he will feel good. But man what a journey to get better from there. Endless fascination. Thanks again Jared.
Completly agreed!☝🏻 for example i realized that i might be drifting a little bit from beginner to intermediate when I stopped playing “American Idiot” etc. and for my surprise I could cover “Master of Puppets” quite comfortably. I hope you see my point!
@@RedoXen american idiot is a very hard song in my beginner's opinion. My bandmates were astounded when i told them for me as the drummer it's the hardest song we play. To me, a person who can play american idiot pretty much got the whole punk genre covered, so you did good advancing your knowledge moving forward to another genre.
The best advice I can give a young drummer is to focus on being the best musician you can be. Learn a melodic instrument and develope your singing voice. Only then will you truly understand the relationship between yourself, behind the drums, and the other players surrounding you.
I've been in that weird position where you're not quite a beginner but not quite intermediate. At this point, I'm almost completely self taught. I've listened to songs a few times and then played them. I'm a newbie when it comes to theory, and that's the main reason I'm in lessons.
I've seen too many great drummers on the internet and in real life to know better xD I'm always a beginner and forever a student. I can learn something new from everyone, whether they're drumming for 3 months, or 300000 years Peace and Love
I'd like to add that you can improvise on a lot more than what's mentioned here. I sometimes like to improvise on congressional hearings, American politicians have a tendency to speak with a clear backbeat on 2 and 4, especially if they're reading from paper.
I love how everyone on the team is humble and seems to know there's always gonna be someone better. Especially liked the part about metronomes. I'm not a fan, alot of times it seems to be more for the engineer if ur in studio. If I gotta play to a click sometimes my entire style has to go out the window! Gr8 vid!
I’ve drummed for decades and never practice, I drum to songs only, to be honest it’s all about drumming to suit the song your playing, during the song I let the “self” take over which can produce techniques I’ve never used before, sometimes we practice to much and become mechanical rather then spontaneous/amazing….
I'm definitely an intermediate drummer, most likely lower middle. I've been playing for over 20 years and I can do/understand almost everything on this list (although some definitely need improvement). I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing most of the time though and I definitely have a lot more to learn. Pretty cool to hear this because a lot of these I do without even thinking about it.
i would say im a low intermediate drummer, made huge progress because of you guys at drumeo, wanna say thank you for the phenomenal content!! For myself my final goal is to allways have fun behind the kit and never feel stressed out or something and allways try to learn from others instead of feeling bad because im not as good es they are! If you ever feel stressed or something keep in mind we all do this because we have fun behind the kit, Drums are Life, Drums are love
Been drumming for more than 15 years and just recently really started to focus on basic techniques and drills. I always found ways to play things intuitively, cool things, but never the best and most efficient way, just my workaround way, and always with compromise because of lack of skill in some areas. So happy about how this improved my play lately, also thanks to your videos. Don't really feel like a beginner anymore, but sure af don't feel like I'm intermediate either.
Have watched so many Drumeo videos but this was one of the most fun and both confidence building ("Hey I'm an Intermediate drummer!") but also humbling in so much more to learn! Jared you are the best, man. You are Advanced in so many ways, not just your drumming.. excellent instructor and communicator. Keeps me inspired to keep practicing, not just jamming!
I think to determine how good you are at your craft (be it drums, guitar, baseball, woodworking or whatever it is) also has alot to do with the mental knowledge. When someone plays a gig and plays alot of crazy stuff the crowd may think "wow that guys good", but to other musicians they will see how that might possibly be hurting the song itself, or that it's unnecessary. Also, I think that when somebody just practices just because they are told it will make them better isn't as valuable as knowing what you should practice and how it will help you specifically in the long run. I don't know it may all sound like common knowledge, but I think constant self evaluation and constant observation of music and other musicians can greatly help. If you actually read all this, thanks haha
Great outlook to have but don’t forget your social game. If you serve the song and love the music but are introverted or anti-social, and there’s another person who serves the song and loves the music but also goes to plenty of gigs and knows how to make friends, maybe you’ll do a gig or two a week but they’ll be doing five.
Been watching you Jared since i was 14. Seen your heel toe technique video all those yrs ago, and i must say i totally understand how much you've progressed. Im 24 now just wanted Thank you so much for always being a thorough teacher. Love the Paiste cymbals!
i play for 2 years, started as a beginner in a band. My friends tolds me i made huge progress..i think i still suck and the road is very looong. but it's such a great journey.
Extremely important video !! Thank you, Jared and Drumeo. As Mike said, “i’m always a beginner” because, for me, no matter how good I think I am, I realize that I have MORE AND MORE to learn, and I CANNOT wait to learn and enjoy the process of learning and having fun while doing it. Thank you very much for this very important video !!!!!
I have been for playing for 33 years and I was really worried I was going to think of myself as a beginner at the end of the video. Thanks for not making the standard TOO high. I guess I am can consider myself an intermediate. I actually consider there to be 4 levels. Beginner - Intermediate - Advanced and Expert.
@@DavidOakesMusic So true. This is also why people who only have experience on one instrument underestimate what it takes to play the other instruments in the band. I remember at university there was a real problem with lead guitarists that thought everything that everyone else did was simple and that the solo is the peak of musical difficulty. I always tell people to try to learn the basics on a few instruments because not only will it broaden your perspective but it will also humble you and make you appreciate your band mates. Plus you will also improve band communication if you know how to explain something the way that the other person conceptualises it.
Jared this is a great explanation of what it means to be an intermediate drummer. At first I was surprised when Mike Michalkow said that he is an intermediate level. Then when he said that he approaches the drums like a beginner I totally agree with him. He is an Amazing drummer. I know he is one of your teachers. I often remind my students that I am a lifelong student of the drums. I tell them that what I have learned up to this point is minute compared to what I need to learn. The musical journey never ends. Awesome video and great insight. Thank-you for filming this.
At 68 years old , returning to drumming last year after a 50 year hiatus,. I am definitely a Beginner. I was content to play as a hobby to My Music in my basement, trying to keep time and playing simple fills. But after surfing UA-cam videos about drumming like this one (Jared is seriously very good at teaching) it brings the reality to the forefront. It brings to light how much practice and devotion combined with the passion , is required to play drums well and for that matter any instrument. I am trying not to let that frustrate my retirement pleasure. If you play any instrument, you aim to get better and achieve new hieghts in your playing level. At this point, I would be content to play a Meloncamp or Clapton or CCR tune completely in time and not miss any beats. Happy Drumming to all. Stay safe
After playing for 40 years I am definitely an upper intermediate and probably will never reach that upper tier (Weckl, take your pic, etc.) but I’m okay with that. I’ve found that the most important things you can do for the band is keep straight time (behind, ahead or dead-on pocket) and...play with feel. I may not be able to play with Chick Corea but I’ve been told my feel is impeccable. Most bands would be happier with a drum machine on stage than a drummer that doesn’t have those other two skills. My 2
I've been playing drums for 38 years and I've learned that there is no point to anything beyond being an eternal student of MUSIC, as opposed to the instrument.
Thank you drumeo for reminding me I’m not a beginner anymore! Lol I have my insecurities but this video definitely helped me decide on where I stand playing the drums.
I was at a Derek Roddy clinic here in Sydney a few years back and he's quite the versatile drummer. One thing he said at that clinic that stuck with me was "think melodically when you're playing". From that night on, my groove and feel changed.
Years ago I was working a lot with metronomes in live settings. There is a technique I discovered where you can, with a lot of practice, get the volume of the metronome in your ear balanced with the volume of the kit and start "flaming" the metronome. So intentionally play a little ahead or behind the click to create a flam effect in your ear. Playing ahead will sound different from playing behind. You can play it straight through a measure continuously or only on certain notes to create different feels and impacts. Advanced level is noticing where the band like to hit certain downbeats late or early when moving into different structural parts of songs. Instead of forcing them to play to the click, you as the drummer can just catch the new "flam" effect of the late or early note and play the tempo with an offset from the click track. You get all the drive and tightness of using a click track, but you don't compromise the human component of the music. Fun stuff and definitely a head screw for other musicians when they figure out what you're doing. You're gonna get some weird looks like you're some kind of Rainman, but you're gonna earn a lot of respect too.
Having just finished my Third record with three different bands I can't stress enough the importance that you touched on and that is "serving the song". Rule #1 don't stomp on the vocal line. Rule #2 see rule #1. Rule #3 less isn't more... Less costs more (N. Peart Test for Echo drum video R.I.P). Rule#4 Have fun. Your channel popped up in my feed I'm gonna give it a run through. Cheers, to all you drummers out there waiting, itching and scratching to get back out there.
wow! mike michalkow! what a G! i remember the early days when i started learning with this channel, he shook my world w his paradiddles. nice to see he is in good health & with yall!!!
Hi, Jared and Drumeo, your words and thoughts are honourable. My advice for drummers is: be honest to yourself; learn the basics; try to reach the skill to play "in the pocket"; prepare for gigs or auditions and ..... feel good and make the band and the audience feel good! And love your drums and your drumming! Greetings to the whole community from good old germany!
I’ve been playing drums for 7 almost 8 years and i can do most all of this but i definitely still feel like a major beginner. Music has a never ending skill cap and the more you learn the more you realize how you can never stop getting better.
In all fairness, you probably are if you got this far. Just might've been some things you missed. But that happens, so ya don't have to beat yourself up over it. Try to see it as more of a checklist to make sure you packed everything in your luggage, as opposed to a grade. Lol. It's possible to pack everything else important in your luggage but forget the pickles. 😂😂😂😂
I am an advanced to 3rd level professional drummer - I have 6 years of studio session experience, plus a combined total of 30+ years playing and teaching drums in rock, jazz, blues, r & b, soul, swing, country, and big band styles.
A proffesional drummer cant be defined by the amount of chops you have or even worse comparing your self with others that people thing are THE BEST. You can figure it out if you are a pro player if you can do the following ( its my opinion): 1. Be able to play with and without click tracks etc and have implecable timing 2. Be able to play for the song , doesnt matter what style 3. Groove, feel and concept 4. Be able to be on the road and dont fuck up 5. Learn material fast and be able to get along with others 6. Understand that music is NOT ABOUT CHOPS 7. Make sure you know how to play loud and solid if you are going to hit the road. Being a pro has nothing to deal with chops or if u compare yourself with that guy or that guy. Make sure you play with musicians BETTER THAN YOU and hit the road and play nightly. REAL ROAD IS THE ONLY THING THAT MAKE U A REAL PRO . NO MATTER STYLE YOU PLAY. TO BE A PRO YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY 300.000 STYLES. PLAY 4 OR 5 REALLY WELL!!!
Play 4 or 5 styles really well: rock, jazz, funk, Latin. [or] Play 4 or 5 styles really well: hard rock, country rock, glam rock, punk rock, heavy metal. Kinda depends on your definition of "style" I guess. Honestly, if someone can play rock, jazz, funk and Latin really well - forget about the definition of "really well" for now - then they probably have more or less the whole shebang already.
I've been drumming for 40 years now. Lots of different styles, played in amateur and (semi)professional bands and orchestras. I drum every day. I wouldn't call myself "professional" because I see UA-cam video's every day where someone does things on the drums that I've never done. That's inspiring and motivates me to learn techniques and styles that are out of my comfort zone. I guess it's just like judo or jiujitsu (my sports): you'll always be a student, trying to improve yourself. One last thing: I started my drumming in a marching band. The techniques I learned there (traditional grip, paradiddles, rudiments and so on) have been of great value throughout my drumming "career".
This could not have come at a better time. I've been feeling lost and stuck in my drumming and have really noticed some inconsistencies in my playing recently. There's some on this list that I feel comfortable with and others I don't, so it feels great to have both new goals to work towards and the validation that I've made some progress over the years. I still feel like a total beginner and that I'm in over my head lol but thank you for the motivation and the new challenges!
How can you be a beginner after playing for 33 years .That cant be .The only way it can be is if you were not playing but just knocking the drum now and then for 30 years . I am playing for 15 years and people say that I am really good .
In reference to the bit at the end about remaining humble. So one thing that really impacted the way I see drumming is how people treat me as a drummer. Around here, I'm one of maybe two intermediate drummers in my age group, not a brag just statistics. Many musicians, especially my old band, liked to suck up an tell me I was the best drummer they'd ever met. Everyone was like that, to the point where I got tired of knowing otherwise and one day I responded to my lead singer saying that to me with "Okay, but that's not helpful. Critique me, tell me I suck, give me something to work on, don't just blow me all day." That was a moment I really learned the value of humility and began to appreciate other drummers as cooperative students rather than competition.
One realization that came to me is that if you feel like you're a beginner/high beginner/low intermediate you should listen to intermediate or high intermediate drummers. It's easy to be amazed by advanced drummers, but If you listen to others with the intention of learning, you should obviously listen to people who are better than you, but not WAY better than you. Like all skills you have to build a solid foundation before moving on to the more advanced stuff. Listening to players like Benny Greb or Marco Minneman doesn't necessarily serve the purpose of teaching you, because they're doing stuff that is simply out of your league. Even if you learned a fill or a groove or whatever it is that they're playing, it wouldn't really fit well into your own playing. You wouldn't necessarily be able to utilize it in any meaningful way. I feel like i'm a high beginner/low intermediate, maybe intermediate at best. I've been playing for over 10 years, but never really practiced properly or consistently. I mainly played for fun by myself and felt happy that I "practiced" for an hour or whatever when in reality I had just been playing some nonsense without any thought on what I should work on to get better or even really listening my own playing. Never played drums in a band until recently when we started a new project with a friend of mine and that has really pushed me into learning. To keeping better time and to improve my technique and such. It's a great feeling to finally play with a friend and also already hear the difference just these few weeks of practice have made in my playing!
We're all somewhere between the day we picked up sticks and Buddy Rich. Been playing for 18 years. I can confidently call myself an intermediate player, but I'll be a forever student of the drums. There's always more to learn!
@@ashmonkey2572 You have to think that your foot is a piano mallet. The more you hit the bass pedal at a certain time, the faster your bass line will be. Bass pedal is not a gas pedal of a car; you actually have to treat it as an instrument and use your foot in a way that your instep moves up and down hell of much and your bass pedal just happens to be in a way of your crazy foot. Playing bass drum is like dancing. Opening hi-hat in a correct way is a nightmare.. - It just needs so, so much training until it somehow seems to be getting okay. - But it's more about your hi-hat hand than your hi-hat foot in my opinion, because you can kind of cheat by just hitting very fast, though your hi-hat speed is ridiculous. (Everything depends on context though, but these are my tips.)
Great posts in the comments about how drumming is a journey. One area that I am weak in, but slowly learning from youtube and reddit, is equipment. Learning how to set up and tune my set, learning what sounds good and how to select, setup and tune the set according to my likes and to facilitate improving skill and technique. Tuning alone is a milestone of sorts that could be used to separate begginner, intermediate and advanced. I know the mechanics of tuning but my ear for it is beginner-ish, but I try things and get better. Great video and topic, thank you.
Started watching the video thinking, yeah, totes intermediate. Then, by the end Jared calls himself intermediate and I'm like, "Is there a pre-beginner level?"
What you've missed is a decent sounding and tuned kit. I played on a pro kit once........my skill level seemed to go up 3 notches immediately. You guys play on the best gear, most of us don't. I wish....! Love your work, learn so much for you guys. Never finish learning.
Loved this!. I clicked on this video knowing that I'm not intermediate, I'm way below that. But watching it, was highly motivating. It means that if I put in the hours and the dedication I might be able to do the things you showed. The one advice I could give is admire great drummers but don't idolize them. Admiring will make you work hard trying to catch up, idolizing means that you'll think that you'll never be good enough so why even try.
Thank you Jared + Drumeo crew. Taking on the universe of drumming can be seriously intimidating. Glad we have resources like you to break into bite size chunks!
I’m honestly immediate at this rate playing for 5 yrs now Performing with Worship in Churches at a early stage really helped with timing Especially recently the click track whipping my ass in shape
All these guys saying they are intermediate have played for 20 years lol, chances are you arent on their level especially if playing with click is still a challenge for you, also its TIME, not timing
Men love numbers: Stage 1: No Drummer Stage 2: Beginner Stage 3: Intermediate Stage 4: Advanced Stage 5: pro (Todd Zucherman, Annika Nilles) Stage 6: prodigy (Tony Royster, Eric Moore, Thomas Lang) While most of us struggle between 3 and 4, Jared proceeds to climb from 4 to 5 I think.
You can always learn more, practice more, listen more and improve. Being "Intermediate" is nothing to be ashamed of in the drumming world. Of all the drummers out there in the world? 70% are beginners. 20% are intermediates. 6% are advanced professionals. 3% are the untouchables who inspire. And, less than 1% are the elite/immortals. If you are in the "intermediate" category, you're a damn good drummer.
💯. It always knocks me out when I read interviews with all-time great players that say they ‘cringe if they listen back to past recordings’ it’s like wow, there’s some perspective
To add on to the last point, it took me a long time to switch from "it's never good enough" to "there's always room for improvement." Sometimes I find myself in the former, but I've definitely come to embrace the latter.
I've been playing about 20 hours on an acoustic kit. I was really enjoying it. Yesterday I bought an electric kit. On that I feel like I'm 4 steps under a complete beginner.
I think there's a real problem in these categories. The more time you spend in practicing drums and understanding the instrument the more you realize how much of a "beginner" you still are. Since my first day of drumming until know (10 years later) I always felt like a beginner. As I started playing with other musicians in bands or as a session musician I was overwhelmed by the mass of selftitled "advanced" oder "intermediate" drummers, but after talking to them, seeing them play and working with them I was always wondering if I treat myself too bad or if they're just too self-confident. And that's why I think the difference between beginner, intermediate and advanced is not about what you can or can't play. It's more about how you see yourself. Therefore someone who calls himself a beginner can be way better as someone who calls himself an intermedate or even advanced just because the beginner knows how much is possible and he feels like he hasn't reached his maximum while someone may call himself an intermediate because he doesn't know what's possible on the drumset and doesn't think this intensely about the drums themselves as a part of communication, expression or stuff like that. To come to an end and my conclusion.. How you call yourself doesn't say anything about how good you are. I guess most of the drummers I'd call advanced would call themselves beginner and some drummers I'd call beginners would call themselves advanced. I hope I could make my point. English is not my first language and so it was pretty hard for me the express what I wanted to say!
Seriously recommend going through rudimental drumming, as in performing in a drumline or looking at music in the marching style. Being in a marching band or Drum Corps of some sort, regardless of wether or not it's show style, corps style or fief and drum corps style, etc. All of them will you through 90% of the criteria shown here. Motion, rimshots, technique, "ghost" notes (more like grace notes, ghost notes usually mean something different in that setting), playing with a met, independence, even improv, just try throwing some rudiments together to the beat of a song, and then try doing that on a kit.
Rudiments also are very applicable as fills. There are surely pretty much infinite possibilities for how to use those simple, march-like hits in different kinds of music.
Where am I at. Hmmm. I just have a passion and love for drumming. I continuously educate myself and strive to be better each day. I don't grade myself as to where I am for drumming. It's about respect for my craft and respect to fellow drummers/musicians and others.. Just have fun and enjoy life. What you put into it is what you'll get out of it. Have a great day fellow drummers.
No matter what your skill level if you’re reading this you should join Drumeo Edge. It’s like an in depth drumming schematic. I’ve been playing close to 30 years, I can play multiple styles, and I’ve even been signed to a record label. Drumeo is constantly either improving my current skills or teaching me new skills all together.
Yup, I always consider myself a hobbyist. I just play for fun and exercise. Have since I was 13 so 31 years. But I would never call myself a pro or an expert.
I thought I would finally be somewhere close to intermediate as I can pick up new songs pretty easily and usually just improvise them through pretty well, but some technical things you mentioned, really made me think if I really am that good yet. Although, I think that those ghost note, rim hit, etc., things are pretty trivial and really needed for some special, very advanced cases. I might think that an intermediate drummer; - Knows how to variate bass drum tempo and rhythms, - Uses hi-hat pretty well, play ride in a decent way that doesn't sound like a shit, but isn't perfect either - Has a pretty good hand-feet coordination and independence, so that the first more punkish song doesn't make them lose temper completely, and they are able to master even the most difficult genres somehow (imo; metal, punk, jazz, reggae, hip hop). - Doesn't get their hands bloody and blistering all the time (knows that difference between dropping a stick and holding it very lightly) and still manages to play pretty well (that stupid whole-arm-drumming doesn't look or sound good ever, if one wants to play a bit faster than that casual beginner tempo at something like 60 BPM, which anyone can handle.) - Knows how to build up and tune a drum set - Doesn't break the sticks every second week, so that the new ones must be bought and drumheads are gonna get one bankrupt. - Is able to play in a band and not sound very dusty and/or shit-punk/wannabe-metal - Doesn't feel an urge to overplay everything - Doesn't think they are much better than they actually are - Understands why those paradiddles, grooves and ghost notes are so amazing, and knows how to use and variate them in a way, that sounds pretty plausible - Is honestly getting pretty good with basic fills and tempo-changes - Makes own fills, no matter if those actually are their own (most fills probably aren't, but that doesn't matter) - Just feels the beat and lives in a moment while playing - Doesn't actually need a metronome, because no one can hear those small fluctuations. They are still everywhere, for example, in our speech. Those fluctuations won't be that big and if they are, one probably has realized it and is already, ashamed as hell. (Handles these all pretty well and has something pretty professional to add on these kind of lists.)
I'm always going to be a beginner in drums. I've been playing for 35 years, and still can't do any fancy stuff. Listening to this doesn't really help me estsblish where I am. I can do about half of these things. My internal clock is really good, but my body doesn't do what the clock say. I can do the metronome with all the click variations. It gets really tight but very robotic and soul less.
i am 64 and have played since i was 10 , i have gigged consistently for 30 years 2- 3 gigs a week , i have no rudiment skills at all i have not developed my single or double stroke rolls ,i don,t have the capacity to tell you what i am playing , and in saying that i am in high demand in my state ,i get to play with some of the best musicians and bands my abilty lies in being able to play excellent time ,i actually call myself a parrot ,i play covers at the moment and have played many original bands as well , as an example i can play Midnight oils ,Power and the passion with the big drum solo in it note for note but i can not tell you what i am doing i just memorized it and played it
I started out advanced and over the years turned intermediate and now I've reached beginner. At least in my head.
i legit feel that. i've gotten into punk rock, which is way faster and requires a lot more control than I'm used to, and I realized just how legitimately terrible I am at drums, especially after 11 years starting when I was 5
I know what you mean!!
that's actually called the Dunning-Kruger Effect... makes you feel like you're not improving or getting worse but it actually just seems like you are (because the longer you've been learning something the more you know about a subject and how much you don't know/ can't do yet) and you just aren't noticing that you're actually getting better and better:)
Had the same thoughts myself!
That's always the mentality that most people have cause you think you know so much until your finally shot back down to earth. Like most drummers I can play pop and rock songs fairly easily, but when it comes to really fast punk songs it's only a matter of time before I cramp up or just drop my sticks from holding them too loose to try and play faster. So I feel I'm anywhere from high beginner to low intermediate right now.
I’ve been playing for 12 years, I’ve learned so many techniques and styles and a lot of times I still feel like a beginner
I've been playing for a 30 years, and I feel the same way.
@@aking8477 25 for me, exactly the same.
Dunning Krueger effect
@@reiyu4786 I'll have to check into that
Happens to the best of us king keep ur head up
•ghost notes
•rim shots
•dynamic limb interdependence
•motions (full/up/downstroke, taps)
•playing confidently with a (offset) metronome
Aaron Wong I don't think rim shots needed to be on the list
@@jimmyteriyaki9783 yeah but It should definitely include technique that’s like a high level beginner skill
@@jimmyteriyaki9783 im pretty new and not sure if theyre the same concept but accent shots on the high hat are a struggle, esp w the left hand
I'm addicted to pigger nussy 🤠
Me: Has literally never held drumsticks
UA-cam: Are you an intermediate drummer?
Me: "Guess I’ll have to watch to find out"
😂
Maybe thats a calling to a new hobby. You should probably think about becoming a drummer..if you want🤷🏾♂️
Lmao this is golden
Were you?
Great comment! 😂
It's funny how Drumeo is so humbling. I'm 66 and counting. Been drumming since I was 12. Took many breaks over the years but now pretty much play everyday. I've learned so much watching this channel. You guys have really put me in my place. Some days I think the sky is the limit and other days I think I should have taken up the flute. But when I gig with my classic rock band and get tons of compliments it makes it all worth it...sorry for rambling on but.........Thank you guys. You've come a long long way. Get Ringo on the show!
Improving on drums is so difficult, unlike on guitar, i find that its much harder to know what to practice to see results. Typically on guitar like when im practicing scales or whatever i usually come out the other side seeing results. Its easy to identify weakness. But on drums its not as obvious, its like working out. You dont really see the results immediately, its a slow overtime process that requires a ton of patience and confidence. That may just be me though
@@mightymorphingpo alright
I find drums to be harder than guitar
Word. That's one of the most frustrating things in being a multi-instrumentalist. With drums, I know what I want in my head. I have a clear vision of the beat, the pattern, the arrangement but when I sit on the throne, I'm like a monkey wondering what to do with two sticks
Very well said! As a beginner I am astounded at countless hours just to get something like basic sticking. Tons of fun but progress is in the sub millimeter level.
Work on stick control exercises...that will translate to anything you or play on a drum..
I’d say there’s beginner, intermediate, advanced, and then another level past that, pro/master/god level is well past advanced. So you can say you’re advanced and still put yourself in a lower category than the best of the best.
I agree with the idea, though I wouldn't do that as putting guys like that on a god tier level might make people think their skill level is unattainable, when it's usually not. Its all knowledge and practice. The "gods", probably more often than not, did very little with their lives besides obsess over their instrument. And that's not a bad thing, just where those differences are made
Agree
That's basically where I feel I'm at too. I'd definitely call myself advanced at this point, but I wouldn't ever have the audacity to compare myself to some of the greats. Maybe in another 20 years I'd be able to hold a candle to some of them hahaha
I would say
1. Beginner - Lars Ulrich, acdc drummer
2. Intermediate - most recreational drummers
Advanced - me lol
Master class - Mike Portnoy
World class - ex. Mike Mangini , Neil Peart, Thomas Lang
There is everyone else, and then there is Eric Moore, he is a god
When amzng advanced drummers modestly call themselves "intermediate", it's not fair to us real intermediates.
It is all relative. If people see me playing at a jam session go oh yeah he’s on it but that is because I know the songs but the few times I have been asked to sit it at a jazz jam session I was floundering. Also the advanced drummers you mention may look at other drummers who blow their mind like Vinnie C or Virgil Donati and Dave Weckl and go they are advanced I’m intermediate. It is all relative but the main advice I give young drummers is forget technique, chops etc just get in a band as soon as you can and enjoy yourself. I joined my first band 6 weeks after buying my first kit and I wasn’t even at the beginner mark as I couldn’t even play a single stroke roll but there are always workarounds I didn’t learn any technique until after 2 years of giggling constantly.
they ARE all intermediate or below. Kyle is the most experience guy in the entire organization, with the most time playing at the highest levels of anyone there. He's toured, played on projects, does sit-ins and knows his stuff inside and out. But is he one of the best drummers in the Vancouver area? Nope. There are other guys that are much more advanced and he'd be the first guy to tell you that.
Andrew Lund lol I became a very low intermediate because of this
I completely agree
I would personally two other levels called "advanced" & "expert" and would place Dave, Jared and many others that underrated themselves at high intermediate or advanced and myself at intermediate.
Yeah lol 😂 it makes me feel im a garbage can drummer 😭
Been playing for 12 years. I guess I'm a beginner in intermediate. After 12 years playing and most of that only to play with a band and little actual practice, I'm finally learning rudiments. When I started I felt so stupid, it's supposed to be basic and I just couldn't do it. But I'm starting to get the hang of double strokes and I feel so excited to work towards actually becoming a better drummer. Thanks for all the great advice, guys! And to anyone out there who feels stuck, I can now testify that if you practice, little by little you'll get better! Cheers, everyone!
Definitely a beginner thrashing around like an octopus.
We've allllllll been there, Inky! Ha ha, get it?
I've played for 44 years and still know Jack shit! I also have taught the drums for 22 years. WE ALL should be able to find new things to learn as well as relearning things you thought you could play well!!! t
The learning should ONLY stop at our final breath!
Octopus has no friends...
@@JM-vf3tx and what's that got to do with anything.
I'm an octopus thrashing around like a beginner!
The weirdest part of playing live was getting glowing feedback from people, being asked in analytical ways about something I played, and trying to still be able to actually feel good about my performance. I know my weaknesses and playing around my weaknesses/nerves on stage always kept me humble. Even before watching this video I was thinking to myself that there was no way I was even intermediate, I mean maybe I could’ve been, but wasn’t sure. Once I watched I was pleasantly happy and honestly pretty fucking proud of myself to call myself a high intermediate. I’m aware of everything I can do well, and where my weaknesses lie. I can check off every box presented in this video. I’m honestly pleasantly surprised! Thank you for making this very insightful video!
Me too.it sure makes you humble.im no Neil peart.but I cat hold my own.
Dude... Jared always explains things in such a comprehensive, unintimidating way. This dude is a fantastic drummer, but lets also praise that freakin' way he communicates perfectly too
"This isn't about that, Dave"
LoL
I played drums in my youth for roughly 10 years, almost exclusively rock / metal. Most of that time was spent playing with a band and way too little actual practice... so, now, almost 20 years later, I'd say I'm a good beginner rock drummer and I'm fairly good at improvising in that genre, but my vocabulary is pretty small and I know next to nothing about anything but rock / metal drumming.
Exactly my experience. When I used to play with a band, my drums were always set up at someone else's house. I am self taught and after learning how to keep beats like bands on the radio do, my actual time on the drums was 90 percent practicing with the band. Very little time actually playing or practicing solo. Maybe a few minutes before band practice, but usually within a few minutes of trying to groove a bit, the bassist would start jammin with me and then right into band practice. Never took time to learn rudiments or practice drills, but was still always a pretty good rock/metal drummer. Then after getting married and having kids, the whole band thing fizzled and I'm lucky to get down to the basement and screw around for 15 minutes at a time or so, maybe a couple times a month. I can rock a drum set pretty well and impress people when I'm playing what I WANT TO PLAY! But when I get online and see what some of these guys and girls do with paradiddles and other things that I never learned, I feel so insignificant. Sometimes I just want to burn my kit after I watch these guys. There's SO much room for improvement! But I'm gonna keep on bangin, and at almost 40 years old and 25 years playing I think I'm actually going to drill on some basic rudiments and see if I can get to another level.
Exactly my experience. Playing for 25 years now, with 20 years of rockband-experience. Right now I consider myself to be some kind of a beginner cause I realize my techniques can be sloppy at times. But I think it’s because the more you know (bout drumming) the more you realize what you don’t know. I guess the same thing might be true for you.
After watching the full vid I see Jared says the same in the end :)
Same here guys. I feel pretty good about my drumming until I see some 10 year old kid blasting out jazz fusion on UA-cam and then I'm reminded that I know freakin nothing.
@@E2112-s2p facts dude. I hear ya
Love how humble he is about his incredible skill and reminds us how much the struggle is REAL to be great.
It sure is. I've had 2 times in my life, college, & now during this pandemic, where i had REAL TIME to PRACTICE HARD. BOTH times ive spent no less than 4, w/ an avg of 6, & often going 8-10 HOURS EVERY DAY.....
& Now my savings is gone, but it was worth it 🤣🤣😁😁
I find Drums is ALOT like weight training, really..... U gotta keep @ it, but you gotta allow yourself time to recover too..... With that said, no matter how many hours i put in, its always good to take an entire day or 2 to just rest & recover. Drums are VERY PHYSICAL & it can do wonders. Just dont take TOO MUCH TIME OFF 🤣🤣🤣
Just to be clear: Intermediate drummers should play Simon says and only advanced drummers should play Simon Phillips says
The longer I play, the less I realize I know.
my31and37 i can relate to that
I came into this video with my head held high. I left the video rethinking my life decisions
That's with everything you can learn, I'm afraid...
Longer i play, the more i forget
You can search for the Dunning-krugereffect. I think thats what you feel
Great video lesson Jared. Three years ago at Drumeo (one of the best weeks of my life) I said I thought I was an advanced beginner if that is possible. The comment about knowing you have so much more to learn is so true. I now think I am a beginner who has ten years of trying to play. Drums are so interesting. You can teach a non-player how to do a very basic rock beat in 20 minutes if he or she has some coordination. And she or he will feel good. But man what a journey to get better from there. Endless fascination. Thanks again Jared.
Thank you Bill, it was great to have you here!
Playing along to songs also helps, and i find is an integral part of learning how to play with a band and with practicing your timing..
Underrated comment right here. I second this. Play along to music you know AND tunes you may not.
Completly agreed!☝🏻 for example i realized that i might be drifting a little bit from beginner to intermediate when I stopped playing “American Idiot” etc. and for my surprise I could cover “Master of Puppets” quite comfortably. I hope you see my point!
@@RedoXen american idiot is a very hard song in my beginner's opinion.
My bandmates were astounded when i told them for me as the drummer it's the hardest song we play.
To me, a person who can play american idiot pretty much got the whole punk genre covered, so you did good advancing your knowledge moving forward to another genre.
I'm a rim shot enthusiast.. the snare crack sound just gotta fill the room.. 🤩
That enjoyment you get when you see people covering their ears after a rim shot :D
Been my bread and butter for rock gigs for nearly 45 years. I love it!
Sameee, I always end up using them all the time when playing heavier stuff
I know a girl from the bar that's a rim shot enthusiast.
@@the6ig6adwolf Stole my comment ha ha
The best advice I can give a young drummer is to focus on being the best musician you can be. Learn a melodic instrument and develope your singing voice. Only then will you truly understand the relationship between yourself, behind the drums, and the other players surrounding you.
I've been in that weird position where you're not quite a beginner but not quite intermediate. At this point, I'm almost completely self taught. I've listened to songs a few times and then played them. I'm a newbie when it comes to theory, and that's the main reason I'm in lessons.
I've seen too many great drummers on the internet and in real life to know better xD
I'm always a beginner and forever a student.
I can learn something new from everyone, whether they're drumming for 3 months, or 300000 years
Peace and Love
I'd like to add that you can improvise on a lot more than what's mentioned here. I sometimes like to improvise on congressional hearings, American politicians have a tendency to speak with a clear backbeat on 2 and 4, especially if they're reading from paper.
Hmm, interesting...
Interesting
I love how everyone on the team is humble and seems to know there's always gonna be someone better. Especially liked the part about metronomes. I'm not a fan, alot of times it seems to be more for the engineer if ur in studio. If I gotta play to a click sometimes my entire style has to go out the window! Gr8 vid!
I’ve drummed for decades and never practice, I drum to songs only, to be honest it’s all about drumming to suit the song your playing, during the song I let the “self” take over which can produce techniques I’ve never used before, sometimes we practice to much and become mechanical rather then spontaneous/amazing….
I'm definitely an intermediate drummer, most likely lower middle. I've been playing for over 20 years and I can do/understand almost everything on this list (although some definitely need improvement). I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing most of the time though and I definitely have a lot more to learn. Pretty cool to hear this because a lot of these I do without even thinking about it.
i would say im a low intermediate drummer, made huge progress because of you guys at drumeo, wanna say thank you for the phenomenal content!! For myself my final goal is to allways have fun behind the kit and never feel stressed out or something and allways try to learn from others instead of feeling bad because im not as good es they are! If you ever feel stressed or something keep in mind we all do this because we have fun behind the kit, Drums are Life, Drums are love
Been drumming for more than 15 years and just recently really started to focus on basic techniques and drills. I always found ways to play things intuitively, cool things, but never the best and most efficient way, just my workaround way, and always with compromise because of lack of skill in some areas. So happy about how this improved my play lately, also thanks to your videos. Don't really feel like a beginner anymore, but sure af don't feel like I'm intermediate either.
Have watched so many Drumeo videos but this was one of the most fun and both confidence building ("Hey I'm an Intermediate drummer!") but also humbling in so much more to learn! Jared you are the best, man. You are Advanced in so many ways, not just your drumming.. excellent instructor and communicator. Keeps me inspired to keep practicing, not just jamming!
Serving the song (not your ego) will get you gigs and band mates. Accents, dynamics and good time. Great vid
I think to determine how good you are at your craft (be it drums, guitar, baseball, woodworking or whatever it is) also has alot to do with the mental knowledge. When someone plays a gig and plays alot of crazy stuff the crowd may think "wow that guys good", but to other musicians they will see how that might possibly be hurting the song itself, or that it's unnecessary. Also, I think that when somebody just practices just because they are told it will make them better isn't as valuable as knowing what you should practice and how it will help you specifically in the long run. I don't know it may all sound like common knowledge, but I think constant self evaluation and constant observation of music and other musicians can greatly help. If you actually read all this, thanks haha
True true
Great outlook to have but don’t forget your social game. If you serve the song and love the music but are introverted or anti-social, and there’s another person who serves the song and loves the music but also goes to plenty of gigs and knows how to make friends, maybe you’ll do a gig or two a week but they’ll be doing five.
I am so blessed to be a part of the Drumeo community...thanks..!
Been watching you Jared since i was 14. Seen your heel toe technique video all those yrs ago, and i must say i totally understand how much you've progressed. Im 24 now just wanted Thank you so much for always being a thorough teacher. Love the Paiste cymbals!
i play for 2 years, started as a beginner in a band. My friends tolds me i made huge progress..i think i still suck and the road is very looong. but it's such a great journey.
Extremely important video !! Thank you, Jared and Drumeo. As Mike said, “i’m always a beginner” because, for me, no matter how good I think I am, I realize that I have MORE AND MORE to learn, and I CANNOT wait to learn and enjoy the process of learning and having fun while doing it.
Thank you very much for this very important video !!!!!
I have been for playing for 33 years and I was really worried I was going to think of myself as a beginner at the end of the video. Thanks for not making the standard TOO high. I guess I am can consider myself an intermediate.
I actually consider there to be 4 levels. Beginner - Intermediate - Advanced and Expert.
What would you say your skill level is?
Everyone at drumeo "Humble"
Typical Canadians
@@drummingbad9358 Typical _musicians_ . The guys with the least skill are always the most arrogant.
@@DavidOakesMusic So true. This is also why people who only have experience on one instrument underestimate what it takes to play the other instruments in the band. I remember at university there was a real problem with lead guitarists that thought everything that everyone else did was simple and that the solo is the peak of musical difficulty. I always tell people to try to learn the basics on a few instruments because not only will it broaden your perspective but it will also humble you and make you appreciate your band mates. Plus you will also improve band communication if you know how to explain something the way that the other person conceptualises it.
Also…they are exposed to many of the world’s finest drummers, up close and live, day in and day out
Jared this is a great explanation of what it means to be an intermediate drummer. At first I was surprised when Mike Michalkow said that he is an intermediate level. Then when he said that he approaches the drums like a beginner I totally agree with him. He is an Amazing drummer. I know he is one of your teachers. I often remind my students that I am a lifelong student of the drums. I tell them that what I have learned up to this point is minute compared to what I need to learn. The musical journey never ends. Awesome video and great insight. Thank-you for filming this.
I've been playing on & off for 40 yrs & what I love is always something new to learn, I really like what you said about staying human & not robotic 👍🎶
At 68 years old , returning to drumming last year after a 50 year hiatus,. I am definitely a Beginner. I was content to play as a hobby to My Music in my basement, trying to keep time and playing simple fills. But after surfing UA-cam videos about drumming like this one (Jared is seriously very good at teaching) it brings the reality to the forefront. It brings to light how much practice and devotion combined with the passion , is required to play drums well and for that matter any instrument. I am trying not to let that frustrate my retirement pleasure. If you play any instrument, you aim to get better and achieve new hieghts in your playing level. At this point, I would be content to play a Meloncamp or Clapton or CCR tune completely in time and not miss any beats. Happy Drumming to all. Stay safe
I figured out that I'm more of a mediocre drummer lol
Just Some Guy without a Mustache YOU AGAIN
Foxygrandpa _91 This dude is everywhere. Just when I think he won't show up, there he is!
H2O Lui BUT WHY A DRUMMING VIDEO, SO MANY PLACES THIS MAN HAS BEEN, ANIME OPENINGS, SONGS, MEMES, TRENDING VIDEOS AAAAAAAAAAAAA
YOU ARE A FRIGGIN DRUMMER TOO?????!!!!!!!!
Haha surely am a beginner
After playing for 40 years I am definitely an upper intermediate and probably will never reach that upper tier (Weckl, take your pic, etc.) but I’m okay with that. I’ve found that the most important things you can do for the band is keep straight time (behind, ahead or dead-on pocket) and...play with feel. I may not be able to play with Chick Corea but I’ve been told my feel is impeccable. Most bands would be happier with a drum machine on stage than a drummer that doesn’t have those other two skills. My 2
Hey man, you should really upload some footage sometime, i’d love to see it
Jared, I so appreciate your articulateness and perspective on drumming levels. This is a helpful list for assessing one's own level. You guys rock!
I've been playing drums for 38 years and I've learned that there is no point to anything beyond being an eternal student of MUSIC, as opposed to the instrument.
Thank you drumeo for reminding me I’m not a beginner anymore! Lol I have my insecurities but this video definitely helped me decide on where I stand playing the drums.
I was at a Derek Roddy clinic here in Sydney a few years back and he's quite the versatile drummer. One thing he said at that clinic that stuck with me was "think melodically when you're playing". From that night on, my groove and feel changed.
Jared: Your timing will never be perfect
*Johnathan Moffet: WAIT WHA-*
I should have added that, my bad!
Gene Hoglan: hold my beer
DR.LILJAY so true .i try to get it perfect but you really can’t .
Steve Gadd:
Years ago I was working a lot with metronomes in live settings. There is a technique I discovered where you can, with a lot of practice, get the volume of the metronome in your ear balanced with the volume of the kit and start "flaming" the metronome. So intentionally play a little ahead or behind the click to create a flam effect in your ear. Playing ahead will sound different from playing behind. You can play it straight through a measure continuously or only on certain notes to create different feels and impacts. Advanced level is noticing where the band like to hit certain downbeats late or early when moving into different structural parts of songs. Instead of forcing them to play to the click, you as the drummer can just catch the new "flam" effect of the late or early note and play the tempo with an offset from the click track. You get all the drive and tightness of using a click track, but you don't compromise the human component of the music. Fun stuff and definitely a head screw for other musicians when they figure out what you're doing. You're gonna get some weird looks like you're some kind of Rainman, but you're gonna earn a lot of respect too.
That's some crazy metronome practice you've been doing, Jared!
Having just finished my Third record with three different bands I can't stress enough the importance that you touched on and that is "serving the song". Rule #1 don't stomp on the vocal line. Rule #2 see rule #1. Rule #3 less isn't more... Less costs more (N. Peart Test for Echo drum video R.I.P). Rule#4 Have fun.
Your channel popped up in my feed I'm gonna give it a run through. Cheers, to all you drummers out there waiting, itching and scratching to get back out there.
I'm drummer without having my own drumset, I'm 19 years old from Philippines, playing drums for 1 year, thank you drumeo for sharing your talents.❤🔥
I see Filipino, I hit like.
wow! mike michalkow! what a G! i remember the early days when i started learning with this channel, he shook my world w his paradiddles. nice to see he is in good health & with yall!!!
My first teachings was his drumming system box set like 15 years ago now. Definitely one of the OG teachers.
Improv, yeeahh. Top 40, ok. Ghost notes mm hmm. Rim shots...
GODDAMMIT IM A BEGINNER!
same lol. if he’s an intermediate i’m a beginner
Me too. But thanks for writing out some of the list! Lol
Hi, Jared and Drumeo, your words and thoughts are honourable. My advice for drummers is: be honest to yourself; learn the basics; try to reach the skill to play "in the pocket"; prepare for gigs or auditions and ..... feel good and make the band and the audience feel good! And love your drums and your drumming! Greetings to the whole community from good old germany!
Been playing for 10 years, will always be a beginner, at least that's how I feel about it
I’ve been playing drums for 7 almost 8 years and i can do most all of this but i definitely still feel like a major beginner. Music has a never ending skill cap and the more you learn the more you realize how you can never stop getting better.
I actually thought myself straight up "Intermediate", but I'm not even sure of that now!
In all fairness, you probably are if you got this far. Just might've been some things you missed. But that happens, so ya don't have to beat yourself up over it.
Try to see it as more of a checklist to make sure you packed everything in your luggage, as opposed to a grade. Lol. It's possible to pack everything else important in your luggage but forget the pickles. 😂😂😂😂
I am an advanced to 3rd level professional drummer - I have 6 years of studio session experience, plus a combined total of 30+ years playing and teaching drums in rock, jazz, blues, r & b, soul, swing, country, and big band styles.
A proffesional drummer cant be defined by the amount of chops you have or even worse comparing your self with others that people thing are THE BEST.
You can figure it out if you are a pro player if you can do the following ( its my opinion):
1. Be able to play with and without click tracks etc and have implecable timing
2. Be able to play for the song , doesnt matter what style
3. Groove, feel and concept
4. Be able to be on the road and dont fuck up
5. Learn material fast and be able to get along with others
6. Understand that music is NOT ABOUT CHOPS
7. Make sure you know how to play loud and solid if you are going to hit the road.
Being a pro has nothing to deal with chops or if u compare yourself with that guy or that guy.
Make sure you play with musicians BETTER THAN YOU and hit the road and play nightly.
REAL ROAD IS THE ONLY THING THAT MAKE U A REAL PRO . NO MATTER STYLE YOU PLAY.
TO BE A PRO YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY 300.000 STYLES.
PLAY 4 OR 5 REALLY WELL!!!
Play 4 or 5 styles really well: rock, jazz, funk, Latin.
[or]
Play 4 or 5 styles really well: hard rock, country rock, glam rock, punk rock, heavy metal.
Kinda depends on your definition of "style" I guess. Honestly, if someone can play rock, jazz, funk and Latin really well - forget about the definition of "really well" for now - then they probably have more or less the whole shebang already.
I've been drumming for 40 years now. Lots of different styles, played in amateur and (semi)professional bands and orchestras. I drum every day. I wouldn't call myself "professional" because I see UA-cam video's every day where someone does things on the drums that I've never done. That's inspiring and motivates me to learn techniques and styles that are out of my comfort zone. I guess it's just like judo or jiujitsu (my sports): you'll always be a student, trying to improve yourself. One last thing: I started my drumming in a marching band. The techniques I learned there (traditional grip, paradiddles, rudiments and so on) have been of great value throughout my drumming "career".
7:00 you forgot about the one where you just hit the rim :D
This could not have come at a better time. I've been feeling lost and stuck in my drumming and have really noticed some inconsistencies in my playing recently. There's some on this list that I feel comfortable with and others I don't, so it feels great to have both new goals to work towards and the validation that I've made some progress over the years. I still feel like a total beginner and that I'm in over my head lol but thank you for the motivation and the new challenges!
Playing 33 years. I still consider myself a beginner. It’s such a subjective thing.
How can you be a beginner after playing for 33 years .That cant be .The only way it can be is if you were not playing but just knocking the drum now and then for 30 years .
I am playing for 15 years and people say that I am really good .
@@dalemyrie597 He's saying he's always kept the outlook of a beginner, always attaining knowledge, as he's still doing
In reference to the bit at the end about remaining humble.
So one thing that really impacted the way I see drumming is how people treat me as a drummer. Around here, I'm one of maybe two intermediate drummers in my age group, not a brag just statistics. Many musicians, especially my old band, liked to suck up an tell me I was the best drummer they'd ever met. Everyone was like that, to the point where I got tired of knowing otherwise and one day I responded to my lead singer saying that to me with "Okay, but that's not helpful. Critique me, tell me I suck, give me something to work on, don't just blow me all day." That was a moment I really learned the value of humility and began to appreciate other drummers as cooperative students rather than competition.
8:29 I was not ready for that awesomeness
RIGHT! I'm like, ok I think I could attempt that exercise... and I'm out.
One realization that came to me is that if you feel like you're a beginner/high beginner/low intermediate you should listen to intermediate or high intermediate drummers. It's easy to be amazed by advanced drummers, but If you listen to others with the intention of learning, you should obviously listen to people who are better than you, but not WAY better than you. Like all skills you have to build a solid foundation before moving on to the more advanced stuff. Listening to players like Benny Greb or Marco Minneman doesn't necessarily serve the purpose of teaching you, because they're doing stuff that is simply out of your league. Even if you learned a fill or a groove or whatever it is that they're playing, it wouldn't really fit well into your own playing. You wouldn't necessarily be able to utilize it in any meaningful way.
I feel like i'm a high beginner/low intermediate, maybe intermediate at best. I've been playing for over 10 years, but never really practiced properly or consistently. I mainly played for fun by myself and felt happy that I "practiced" for an hour or whatever when in reality I had just been playing some nonsense without any thought on what I should work on to get better or even really listening my own playing. Never played drums in a band until recently when we started a new project with a friend of mine and that has really pushed me into learning. To keeping better time and to improve my technique and such. It's a great feeling to finally play with a friend and also already hear the difference just these few weeks of practice have made in my playing!
Of course, if you just want to enjoy sick shredding, by all means listen to Benny and Marco and all the others! :D
TBH, I see y'all as advanced. Just what y'all call advanced is more like "God-tier". I like the criteria established here though!
We're all somewhere between the day we picked up sticks and Buddy Rich. Been playing for 18 years. I can confidently call myself an intermediate player, but I'll be a forever student of the drums. There's always more to learn!
my hands are intermediate. feet not so much
Same! Keep working it tho, it's coming to me slowly but surely
Same. It's like i'm having to punch through a brickwall everytime i try to play sth faster on the kick.
My feet are pretty close to intermediate, but my hands are more wannabe-legend.
@@ashmonkey2572 You have to think that your foot is a piano mallet. The more you hit the bass pedal at a certain time, the faster your bass line will be. Bass pedal is not a gas pedal of a car; you actually have to treat it as an instrument and use your foot in a way that your instep moves up and down hell of much and your bass pedal just happens to be in a way of your crazy foot. Playing bass drum is like dancing.
Opening hi-hat in a correct way is a nightmare.. - It just needs so, so much training until it somehow seems to be getting okay. - But it's more about your hi-hat hand than your hi-hat foot in my opinion, because you can kind of cheat by just hitting very fast, though your hi-hat speed is ridiculous.
(Everything depends on context though, but these are my tips.)
This. This right here is my ass 100%. I'm trying to practice/learn technical metal and Jesus I couldn't have picked a worse style to lean towards 🙃
Great posts in the comments about how drumming is a journey. One area that I am weak in, but slowly learning from youtube and reddit, is equipment. Learning how to set up and tune my set, learning what sounds good and how to select, setup and tune the set according to my likes and to facilitate improving skill and technique. Tuning alone is a milestone of sorts that could be used to separate begginner, intermediate and advanced. I know the mechanics of tuning but my ear for it is beginner-ish, but I try things and get better. Great video and topic, thank you.
Started watching the video thinking, yeah, totes intermediate. Then, by the end Jared calls himself intermediate and I'm like, "Is there a pre-beginner level?"
What you've missed is a decent sounding and tuned kit. I played on a pro kit once........my skill level seemed to go up 3 notches immediately. You guys play on the best gear, most of us don't. I wish....!
Love your work, learn so much for you guys.
Never finish learning.
Loved this!. I clicked on this video knowing that I'm not intermediate, I'm way below that. But watching it, was highly motivating. It means that if I put in the hours and the dedication I might be able to do the things you showed. The one advice I could give is admire great drummers but don't idolize them. Admiring will make you work hard trying to catch up, idolizing means that you'll think that you'll never be good enough so why even try.
Awesome, I'm glad you liked it!
Thank you Jared + Drumeo crew.
Taking on the universe of drumming can be seriously intimidating. Glad we have resources like you to break into bite size chunks!
I’m honestly immediate at this rate playing for 5 yrs now
Performing with Worship in Churches at a early stage really helped with timing
Especially recently the click track whipping my ass in shape
All these guys saying they are intermediate have played for 20 years lol, chances are you arent on their level especially if playing with click is still a challenge for you, also its TIME, not timing
Hahaha funny kids!
15 years on drums, and still roockie ^^ The most important is that I still enjoy learning new things. Very nice video!
I thought I was intermediate till Jarod said he was.. guess I'm back to beginning for me hahaha
Men love numbers:
Stage 1: No Drummer
Stage 2: Beginner
Stage 3: Intermediate
Stage 4: Advanced
Stage 5: pro (Todd Zucherman, Annika Nilles)
Stage 6: prodigy (Tony Royster, Eric Moore, Thomas Lang)
While most of us struggle between 3 and 4, Jared proceeds to climb from 4 to 5 I think.
And then there's stage 10 the unattainable stage: John Bonham
*This isn’t about that, dude* HAHAHAHA I’ve been there.
You can always learn more, practice more, listen more and improve. Being "Intermediate" is nothing to be ashamed of in the drumming world. Of all the drummers out there in the world? 70% are beginners. 20% are intermediates. 6% are advanced professionals. 3% are the untouchables who inspire. And, less than 1% are the elite/immortals. If you are in the "intermediate" category, you're a damn good drummer.
I don't think anybody can ever reach a level where he can't find aspects of his drumming worth to improve.
I think a good comparison to this is steve vai. People (including my dad) think he's reached the top level but he keeps on finding things to improve
💯. It always knocks me out when I read interviews with all-time great players that say they ‘cringe if they listen back to past recordings’ it’s like wow, there’s some perspective
To add on to the last point, it took me a long time to switch from "it's never good enough" to "there's always room for improvement." Sometimes I find myself in the former, but I've definitely come to embrace the latter.
The moment you realize you are a beginner😂
I've been playing about 20 hours on an acoustic kit. I was really enjoying it. Yesterday I bought an electric kit. On that I feel like I'm 4 steps under a complete beginner.
I stopped watching right after "You can confidently improvise with other people", before I lose my intermediate status.
I think there's a real problem in these categories. The more time you spend in practicing drums and understanding the instrument the more you realize how much of a "beginner" you still are. Since my first day of drumming until know (10 years later) I always felt like a beginner. As I started playing with other musicians in bands or as a session musician I was overwhelmed by the mass of selftitled "advanced" oder "intermediate" drummers, but after talking to them, seeing them play and working with them I was always wondering if I treat myself too bad or if they're just too self-confident. And that's why I think the difference between beginner, intermediate and advanced is not about what you can or can't play. It's more about how you see yourself. Therefore someone who calls himself a beginner can be way better as someone who calls himself an intermedate or even advanced just because the beginner knows how much is possible and he feels like he hasn't reached his maximum while someone may call himself an intermediate because he doesn't know what's possible on the drumset and doesn't think this intensely about the drums themselves as a part of communication, expression or stuff like that.
To come to an end and my conclusion.. How you call yourself doesn't say anything about how good you are. I guess most of the drummers I'd call advanced would call themselves beginner and some drummers I'd call beginners would call themselves advanced.
I hope I could make my point. English is not my first language and so it was pretty hard for me the express what I wanted to say!
Hmm...in my head, I'm the best drummer on the planet! When I play back my recordings, not even quantize can fix that mess!
Same!
Seriously recommend going through rudimental drumming, as in performing in a drumline or looking at music in the marching style. Being in a marching band or Drum Corps of some sort, regardless of wether or not it's show style, corps style or fief and drum corps style, etc. All of them will you through 90% of the criteria shown here. Motion, rimshots, technique, "ghost" notes (more like grace notes, ghost notes usually mean something different in that setting), playing with a met, independence, even improv, just try throwing some rudiments together to the beat of a song, and then try doing that on a kit.
Rudiments also are very applicable as fills. There are surely pretty much infinite possibilities for how to use those simple, march-like hits in different kinds of music.
Where am I at. Hmmm. I just have a passion and love for drumming. I continuously educate myself and strive to be better each day. I don't grade myself as to where I am for drumming. It's about respect for my craft and respect to fellow drummers/musicians and others.. Just have fun and enjoy life. What you put into it is what you'll get out of it. Have a great day fellow drummers.
Wise words
Perfect.
No matter what your skill level if you’re reading this you should join Drumeo Edge. It’s like an in depth drumming schematic. I’ve been playing close to 30 years, I can play multiple styles, and I’ve even been signed to a record label. Drumeo is constantly either improving my current skills or teaching me new skills all together.
i can't even keep the stable tempo for a whole song ... LOL
OMG. Sick idea on changing the click to the "+". Love it!
Yup, I always consider myself a hobbyist. I just play for fun and exercise. Have since I was 13 so 31 years. But I would never call myself a pro or an expert.
I thought I would finally be somewhere close to intermediate as I can pick up new songs pretty easily and usually just improvise them through pretty well, but some technical things you mentioned, really made me think if I really am that good yet.
Although, I think that those ghost note, rim hit, etc., things are pretty trivial and really needed for some special, very advanced cases. I might think that an intermediate drummer;
- Knows how to variate bass drum tempo and rhythms,
- Uses hi-hat pretty well, play ride in a decent way that doesn't sound like a shit, but isn't perfect either
- Has a pretty good hand-feet coordination and independence, so that the first more punkish song doesn't make them lose temper completely, and they are able to master even the most difficult genres somehow (imo; metal, punk, jazz, reggae, hip hop).
- Doesn't get their hands bloody and blistering all the time (knows that difference between dropping a stick and holding it very lightly) and still manages to play pretty well (that stupid whole-arm-drumming doesn't look or sound good ever, if one wants to play a bit faster than that casual beginner tempo at something like 60 BPM, which anyone can handle.)
- Knows how to build up and tune a drum set
- Doesn't break the sticks every second week, so that the new ones must be bought and drumheads are gonna get one bankrupt.
- Is able to play in a band and not sound very dusty and/or shit-punk/wannabe-metal
- Doesn't feel an urge to overplay everything
- Doesn't think they are much better than they actually are
- Understands why those paradiddles, grooves and ghost notes are so amazing, and knows how to use and variate them in a way, that sounds pretty plausible
- Is honestly getting pretty good with basic fills and tempo-changes
- Makes own fills, no matter if those actually are their own (most fills probably aren't, but that doesn't matter)
- Just feels the beat and lives in a moment while playing
- Doesn't actually need a metronome, because no one can hear those small fluctuations. They are still everywhere, for example, in our speech. Those fluctuations won't be that big and if they are, one probably has realized it and is already, ashamed as hell.
(Handles these all pretty well and has something pretty professional to add on these kind of lists.)
damn eye opening
Man!. Jared, this is definitely one of the best, complete and most candid video of recent Drumeo catalog!! Great stuff!
This isn’t about that dude, lol.
haha! :-)
I'm always going to be a beginner in drums. I've been playing for 35 years, and still can't do any fancy stuff.
Listening to this doesn't really help me estsblish where I am. I can do about half of these things.
My internal clock is really good, but my body doesn't do what the clock say.
I can do the metronome with all the click variations. It gets really tight but very robotic and soul less.
"im not a god emperor expert sith, so im not advanced" k
i am 64 and have played since i was 10 , i have gigged consistently for 30 years 2- 3 gigs a week , i have no rudiment skills at all i have not developed my single or double stroke rolls ,i don,t have the capacity to tell you what i am playing , and in saying that i am in high demand in my state ,i get to play with some of the best musicians and bands my abilty lies in being able to play excellent time ,i actually call myself a parrot ,i play covers at the moment and have played many original bands as well , as an example i can play Midnight oils ,Power and the passion with the big drum solo in it note for note but i can not tell you what i am doing i just memorized it and played it