My associate, would you please be kind enough to ship a Circuit Specialists Inductance-Capacitance-Resistance multimeter to Latvian region? In other words: GIMME DA MEETAAA!!!!
Dad: What would you like for Christmas? Son: A Dragon! Dad: Be realistic. Son: Okay, how about part 2 of Linus Tech Tips 10 Years of Gaming PCs. Dad: And what color would you like that dragon?
Edit: LMG, please read and try this Try running them as a supplement to the radiator! Connect them after the radiator to see if you can get an extra boost in cooling compared to a standard water cooling set up!!!
@@TheVillainOfTheYear one of the flat sides of the peltier needs to be not in contact with the reservoir for it to work. simply putting it in, keep all the heat in the liquid and adding some because the wattage of the peltier itself.
I think just running one of those aquarium coolers after the radiator would suffice. Putting a peltier into the reservoir would add complications. It may be better for space. But it's not necessary for a proof of concept. Something custom would have to be designed and possibly 3D printed in order for that to work. For a commercial product, (assuming a peltier helps) it would sound like a good idea though.
I thought the same, talk about energy efficient that's almost 10x the draw of the rest of the computer! And it probably still won't be enough, it's like launching a rocket; you need more energy to dissipate the energy it uses, then you need more energy to dissipate that energy.
@@UltraNoobian Sure, no doubt, it's a ridiculous amount. Really nothing uses that much power besides like a fully operating entertainment system, a computer, some power tools. I've got a fan that uses 384 watts, it can pull all the air out of a 12x14 room in a matter of seconds, so for that to be just a very poor quality cooler... nah. Would probably be more energy efficient to use an ACTUAL FRIDGE with a huge spool of tubing in it lol.
Watts = Volts × Amps Anyway the reason it needs to draw so much is because it is actually working as a heat pump. Basically all refrigeration are heat pumps where heat is being pulled out of a low energy state (your cold food or room) and being "pumped" up and out into a higher energy state (ambient external air). But in order to do that the pump needs to be powered with equal the amout of energy being moved plus efficiency losses. So if the CPU is consuming 100W a perfect refrigeration system that's 100% efficient would have to consume 100W to bring the CPU back to ambient temperature and even more to get it below ambient.
I had an idea a few years ago, but have lacked the motivation to try it out. You keep the traditional water loop setup including rad, but insert a peltier device into the loop after the radiator. You have a thermocouple on the water block that is connected to the peltier and a humidity and temperature sensor measuring the ambient air hooked up to a micro-controller which controls the voltage applied across the peltier device. The micro-controller ensures that the temperature of your coolant never goes below dew-point, so you don't have to worry about condensation, and the peltier does not draw as much current. There is definitely some risk here of your radiator actually working in reverse and heating the coolant, depending on the thermal output of the system, but if you had a loop that cools not only your CPU, but also GPU and potentially MOBO chip-set (and maybe even RAM - because after all this is a crazy idea in from the get-go), I think there is little chance of the coolant reaching the rad at sub-ambient temperature.
That was not fair, the traditional watercooling solution had RBG fans while the peltier on had non-RGB. Everybody knows that RGB boosts cooling up to 50%
Der8auer made 2 videos on this. The second video was an update. But it was not too successful. But hay just like everyone. The more Tech Ideas. The better for the Tech Community.
it's too bad you can't turn your pc into the powerplant because it gives off so much consistent heat. unless this tech exists and i just have no clue because i'm a noob at this stuff? anyone have a clue if something like this exists?
I had a friend in high school in 2001 who built a TEC for his Athlon XP system and made a water cooling system using a motorcycle radiator. This is old news to me and people keep trying it. I can't imagine trying to cool off a Pentium 4 system during that era with a TEC without breaking a kilowatt of energy.
Siem dude that was kinda my exact comment, nice to scroll n see someone else thinks the same. Those watches are ridiculously overpriced. Literally it’s a $20 quality watch max selling at over $200 bucks. It’s a crazy scam and ppl falling for it because trusted channels like these guys promote it. Kinda shitty thing to do just to make a buck man.
@mohamed khan not even 20 Dollars... You can buy some of the watches on wish and other china trash websites for 5$ or less... Absolute Trash. And no, its not "almost" scam, it IS SCAM
@@reeceguisse17 If you can engineer that, that might just work, too. Because it's not "perpetual". There's a definite energy in/out, of the power into the CPU, and the heat out of the heat exchanger.
The Peltiers becoming an insulator is absolutely true. I bought 2 of them as a kid to cool a CPU and if the CPU gets too warm, they basically become heaters and the more power you dump into them, the more heat comes from both sides…
@@marioj6330 well a peltier module has a ratio of what maximum heat it can dissipate. lets say if your hot side is on 50 C then the cold side will be 5 C. but attach an radiator at the hot side to reduce the tempt to 25 C then the cold side will be lower than 0 C. now back to your question. it cannot reduce the heat of a cpu because the cpy destroys the hot and cold ratio on the 2 sides of the peltier module. the radiators or lets say heat dissipation system is not instantaneous and not 100% efficient as it can only draw such heat from the source. Thats why when the cpu is running and getting hotter, the peltier follows that hot and cold side ratio but with the cpu running the cold side is 30 C warmer(still increasing) and the hot side is already burning hot 70 to 100 C. the figures i said is just for representation and not its true value if applied in its formulas. but you can get the point of why it does not reduce the heat of a cpu
Hey, So I have been messing around with TECs for the last 2 months in my spare time and I have found that "overclocking" (overvolting) the Laird Thermal Systems ET15,24,F2,5252,TA,RT,W6 which is purchasable on digikey for about 60 CAD to around 46v which I found was best for directly cooling a cpu. The power consumption was nearing 900w but with 2 360mm radiators and the water temperature around 30C, I was able to cool i7 940 (yeah I not gonna use this on anything too new) at 4.4ghz at 1.43v while remaining sub ambient. I have already built a few peltier prototypes and I live in Coquitlam, BC so if you would like I can bring them if you would like to explore TECs further because its actually pretty fun for a silent subzero fun time.
I built, and still have, my TEC Swiftech waterblock like what was mentioned in the video that I paired up to my Core 2 Duo E6600. It was backed by a 3 120mm fan radiator and definitely got the job done under load never getting to above 80F/26C. The problem was when the CPU idled, the temperatures would drop to about -16C(!!) and I could never insulate my board well enough to prevent condensation from forming. I don't have it hooked up to anything anymore, but it's a pretty cool trick to show people how fast it'll freeze a wet paper towel.
The most badass CPU cooling system I ever saw was a copper pipe welded to a copper plate, insulated with foam, and filled with liquid nitrogen, for the ultimate ridiculawesome evaporative cooler of all time.
People use those things to set overclocking records. It really is nuts. However liquid nitrogen, without some way of returning it to liquid form continuously, isn't a long term solution
crazy stuff. I also love the immersion cooling solutions by 3m that have come out recently... i think it's called novec. basically looks like a pc submerged in a liquid that's boiling. By following all the bubbles, you can see all the hot spots on the cpu/gpu and memory.
@@jackhemsworth7515 It is also used for quantum systems and magnets. Generally, you simply feed liquid nitrogen into the system and exchange Dewers as they empty. Liquid Nitrogen is actually cheaper than milk per liter, but is a terrible idea for cooling as it is an expensive hazard to the computers.
@@Daniel-ub7ueI think that the peltier module just transfers the heat elsewhere using electricity, but at the same time the energy it's using also generates heat
@@phantombitly It works by having two plates. One of which is hot, and the other cold. If you bring electricity into the system the plates get hot/cold. Otherwise is you heat up one plate, and cool the other, it generates electricity.
@@phantombitly somewhat right. When you add power the Peltier module absorbs hear from one side making the other side cold. Cold enough to instantly freeze a drop off water with a 9v battery. They use these in hot/cold water dispensers, mini refrigerators etc etc
@@Daniel-ub7ue that wattage is not removing heat, one of the laws of energy is that energy cannot be destroyed nor created,peltier works by creating a difference between the plate using the energy,after that the energy become waste energy (heat)
I love that I'm seeing this right after Intel released their first consumer Thermoelectric cooler. The results are amazing, I can't even lie. Watched one on a 5950x all core 4.8ghz to 5ghz boost clock at 45 degrees C which is bloody insane.
liquid metal lol ua-cam.com/video/XqvBLBlzeNQ/v-deo.html headphone warning and speaker warning too - skip the first 35 seconds because intro song is complete earrape
I worked in a lab for two summers working on thermoelectric materials with heating and cooling. I am currently sitting here cringing through the entire video.
I had a CoolIt! cooler (whatever their higher end one was called) back in the day. The design was quite different from this; it was effectively an AiO cooler that had TECs between the loop and the radiator. Worked quite well for several years, up to the point that I ultimately had a pump failure.
The pumps always fail on these units. Im still using a modified FreezeOne that works on modern cpus. Replace the pump, the fan ( 120mm mod ) and the block and you have a great cooler. I ended up replacing the lines with Tygon chemical grade tubing for longevity. For even safer cooling, cover the resevoirs with closed-cell padding to avoid condensation.
Yeah . Too many tech channels set things up to fail. Id like to see what it would take to make TEC viable on modern CPUs . Well i know how id do it, i just want to see others use their brains
Something I figured out when I built a pretty decent custom loop with 2 GPUs, a CPU, 2 rads, and 4 inline thermometers in different places: Loop order doesn't matter. At all. No matter how I loaded the system or ran the fans, all 4 thermometers were always within ~.1C of each other. Sure, the whole loop temperature would move up and down with system load and fan speed, but all of them would move together. So yeah, loop order doesn't matter.
I had a machine where i measured well over 500W consumption at one time - overclocked Phenom II x6, GTX295, somewhat inefficient power supply. I should actually measure my current machine, which is still the same Phenom II X6, still the same Bronze class power supply, but the GPU is now GTX970 with a good bit of an overclock, which shouldn't actually be THAT bad. A coarse estimate told me i can expect 175W out of the CPU package on my current overclock. I think i can do more than 300W at least.
@@technologyanimals Yeah well certainly not brave, broke and indecisive. Phenom II is no longer fully usable. While the performance is still borderline tolerable (but it's been 9 years since it used to be a high-end CPU), the compatibility plain isn't, newer software frequently demands SSE4.2 or SSE3S and those are left missing from the CPU. But i paid mere 110€ for the CPU new from a store, and it served a fair good while. There was a time a few months ago when all the stores were dumping their FX-series stock and i could get something like an FX-8350 for 70€, but those are gone now, now you'd have to pay silly prices on the used market, completely indefensible. Will be considering a full system rebuild with an older-gen Ryzen. Alternatively i could snatch up a cheap FX-6300 or something - while the performance is likely to be a wash, at least the compatibility would be better and i can probably limit the power draw quite a bit. I am awaiting delivery of Shenmue 3 and i'll probably be interested in CP2077 and probably Watch_Dogs Legion. Then again i won't pay full price for Legion so that'll have to wait a year anyway. Legion won't run on the Phenom, if all the last year's Ubi releases are anything to go by, and a severe suspicion that Shenmue 3 and CP2077 won't either.
Yeah, those were great deals, got my FX8350 for $60 and swapped out my Phenom II x6 1090T so I could play more games. Performance is a quite a bit better and it's about the max my motherboard can support at that power rating.
@@SianaGearz you should do it like I do, either get a 2600x Ryzen for like 150€ or a 3600 Ryzen for like 50€ more. Combine that with ATLEAST a 450 board (for future Cpu upgrades) and the system will be fine for the next 5 Years+. (Also I recommend atleast 8GB 3000mhz Ram) AND THATS COMING FROM A guy with an i7 2700k on an Asrock Pro3Gen3 Z68 Board...
Vincero watches put commodity Quartz movements that cost single digit dollar amounts in cases that cost not much more, and then they sell the watch for $100s
Linus’s videos are always in queue and filmed WAY before they come out... look at for example...when one of them gets a haircut and comes on WAN and then look wt the most recent video 😅😅 you’ll see the new haircut after 2-3 weeks 😅
Like cooling with concrete, it kind of works, and like concrete, it's a bad idea. I hope you aspire to higher standards than "kind of works" in your PC builds.
I remember to have done the calculations for Peltier cooling on the late 90's or early 2000's and the numbers get really fastly big. When you use a peltier, you want: 1°) deltaT (hot temp - cold temp) as big as possible. 2°) hot side (and so cold side) as cold as possible. Then comes the problems: A peltier element can achieve his maximum deltaT when the heat input in 0w. When the eat input match the peltier maximum power, the deltaT become 0°C. It means that a peltier has to be much powerfull than a CPU if we want it to be well-cooled. So for example a 25W AMD K6-2 from this old times, to be quite well cooled, you need a 80W+ peltier. A 80W peltier means 80W power absorption capacity. And so 80W+ power consumption and eat generation. So the cooling system have to be big enough to evacuate 25 + 80+ = 105+W heat instead of the 25W from the CPU alone. Also sometimes, a peltier fries. So he become a powerful heat generator, leading to to the CPU to follow it in his death.
Back in the day Corsair made a TEC water block for ram which is actually practical as ram doesn't make enough heat to overwhelm the TEC but is temperature sensitive enough to benefit from superior cooling from a TEC.
Stock up those Peltier resistors, use about 5 one on to of each other, parallel connect them, such set up of dozens is used to create true cryo temperatures
The first Peltier CPU cooler for the PC market came up in the 486 era (i.e. before Pentium). The issue was that the extreme cold could lead to condensation, icing, and even embrittlement severe enough to snap the mainboard in half with vibrations if mounted vertically. The 1990s were wild; many chips could be clocked 50% above design specs back then.
I saw the title on my Firefox notification and I was like "this sounds like a Linus video. and that other guy who fiddles with electrical stuff". Been a while since we've seen Alex haha
TECs can be great, when done properly.... Like with my 400w TEC getting an athlon Xp Barton to sub zero temps with a liquid system chilling the hot side. And a second psu dedicated to the tec. ....as you said "in the old days"
And add it started, I skipped ahead. I'm heare to learn from others mistakes so I don't have to waste my time and money on things that don't work. I actually pay for UA-cam to avoid the 2-ad-per-minute nuisance. I'm not here to buy things I don't need.
The TECs can stacked. The TECs give approximately a 30°F difference. So when you run water across 1 and then another, you give it more time to lower the water temp but can never get below the limit of ~30° before ambient temp. However, if you put 1 TEC directly on top of the other, then you can get ~60° drop in ambient temp. Now try putting the TECs directly onto the CPU (using thermal paste). You can then put a water block on the hot side to send the fan cooling to another location. You can also use antifreeze in the water which absorbs heat better than plain water alone. There are other chemicals that absorb heat even better but some of those are expensive or they are poisonous to breath (ammonia) and so not good for residential use.
The only thing that matters in a sustained workload is the surface area of the fin stack. It doesn't matter whether you move the heat with heat pipes, water or TECs.
Also the temperature Delta (Fins/Ambient) matters, so if you could have a magic TEC, which could move the heat for free (and brakes thermodynamics), your fins would be more effective and you could use less area.
I successfully used an 80-watt peltier on my PC back before you guys were begging for happy meals. I inserted it between the CPU and the heatsink, and used lots of silver-based thermal goop. With the exact same fan speed settings, I was able to drop the core temps by 6 degrees C, and thus achieve a 67% overclock, compared to a 50% overclock. That meant I saved about $1,000 on the CPU. So the extra power wasn't really an issue. More recently, I designed and built a Peltier-based stove fan for atop our fire. It uses an alloy base to absorb the heat, and a massive old Coolermaster heatsink with 6 heatpipes. The temperature differential drives a 12" RC plane propellor which blows air over the heatsink, and maintains a 40-50 degree C difference between the two sides of the peltier. This generates 1.3 volts, and enough current to drive the propellor sufficiently quickly to remove a huge amount of heat from the flue. To avoid heat-soak, the device has to sit perched right at the front of the fire, so that cool air from in front of the fire can be pulled in to cool the heatsink. The thing is so well made, that it starts automatically when you light the fire, and it runs until the firebox cools to the point you can just touch it.
Exactly. A properly designed thermoelectric cooler system can definitely work well. Stacking 2 of them in a multistage configuration also tends to increase the Coefficient of Performance (COP) and decrease electrical consumption for a given amount of cooling.
This video still pisses me off everytime it pops up. What's next? "Freon cooling is a bad idea". Pc cooling is actually one of the use cases where peltiers can make sense, you just have to actually think instead of strapping stuff from ebay together and then say "muh thermodynamics" even though your engineering is the reason it failed
Back in the late 90's I had a peltier on my K6/2-500. I do not know who made it, but it was just attached to an aluminum heatsink, 60mm fan. I never had a single issue with it. Used it for about 3 years then gave it away. It came from a buddy who worked for a tiny town PC shop. The owner, in his 80's was 100% convinced that ALL limits had been hit, and wouldn't sell a high end PC without one. Then Slot1 came out. Someone asked me years later what I did about condensation. I told him I do the same people with a 100% acrylic case do about EMI. I don't think about it. Also bear in mind that my peltier was on a soc7, in a desktop case, no cover, extra PSU on top, 2 extra 5.25" drives, a stack of HD's, and a box fan bungied to it blowning down.
If you like the content, why would you avoid the ads? There's a price to pay for everything, if you value it, pay for it. Aw damn, this got my brain arguing with itself over thermodynamics again X/
Well if it needs a way lot power than decent air cooler or water cooler then it's basically poor idea. Most likely you'd cool down more efficiently with refrigerator and still with better results. So, yeah, TEC is dead, at least in PC world/
I remember seeing my first (and last) Peltier CPU cooler in the Pentium Pro days, which would be late 1995 to 1996... There was concerns and issues with condensation back then, as there was no regulation of the Peltier cooler, so it always ran at full blast, potentially getting cold enough to condense water from the air...right on top your CPU.
The Peltier needs to be PID controlled to maintain a constant CPU temp. There's not really a need to keep the CPU so cold. A proper PID will be able to regulate the peltier to keep the CPU from getting too cold. The PID also needs to be limited so that the Peltier doesn't operate at currents much higher than the COP maximum. That way when the CPU outpaces the Peltier the PID doesn't go past I_max and cook everything.
Peltier Coolers were used in the late 90's to early 2000's with the computer modding boom and worked very well for OC purposes. Buy a standalone Peltier that sits right on the CPU, then add a cooler to chill the hot side of the Peltier. If you look at a computerator build where the freeze tray is used to chill a bucket of alcohol, thats then pumped through a water block sitting on a Peltier. It gets stupid freezing temps. We had to add water proofing due to condensation, etc etc etc. most of this was completely impractical but was built just for fun. A favorite was a 400mhz celeron to overclock as these were basically just cheapy pentium 3's. @Linus
@@SimonWoodburyForget I guess, but isn't the whole point of an air conditioner is that the reactions that occur outweigh the added heat of its power consumption, if that makes sense? Well, certainly in that it pumps the heat away, so I guess it doesn't outweigh per se. Or does it..? That's interesting and a whole other question I guess. This almost sounds like you're pumping electricity directly INTO the device that needs cooling. But I guess that's not quite what's happening either the way Alex explained i. It just seems like this whole thing is a waste and that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know?
Many of those eBay Peltiers (assembled or just the chip) are not the power they state. I bought a 15-amp one and it was actually 3-amp and another was 8-amp.
@@davidmuth4571 With such a huge discrepancy I think it's more likely they print various model numbers on the same cheap units. How many people will actually measure the current draw?
@@Audio_Simon It's common practice among many DIYers to routinely test and sort various component parts. Audio modders test upgrade caps. R/C guys test their new motors, servos and batteries. CMOS chips which are processed in the same batch get ratings which determine their specs and price point. Chips from the same plate could cost as much as $1000 with a "0" rating, while another graded lower might cost $100. Variability in manufactured items of all kinds is a fact of life.
@@davidmuth4571 Everything you say is surely true. But in this case I just don't think production variability is what is what's going on. Are peltier 'chips' so difficult to make that they design it to draw 15amps and it only draws 3amps? That's 36watts instead of an expected 180watts.
I came here because of the new MYSTERY EK COOLER in the fastest pc in the world which is obviously a mix between a normal liquid cooler + a peltier cooler.
I think you can get really good results with this stuff if you use it smart: why not use it in series with a radiator so the radiator takes most of the heat out and the peltier kan chill the water below ambient. That way you use the strong points of both and the weaknesses of neither.
Most people have said that's the right way to TEC cool (if there can be a "right" way to do something so insanely inefficient). You don't want to cool the source with the TEC, you cool the thermal mass that it pulls from the heat source.
I remember seeing TEC coolers in computer magazines and catalogs back in 1998. They didn’t catch on due to condensation on the cold side. Given the control modern boards have, it would make more sense now though by the time it could have made sense CPUs started making so much heat that TECs couldn’t keep up.
I would love to see a project where you have an array of Tec coolers cooled on both sides by two large water blocks, where the cooling capacity is greater than the max power consumption of the cpu & gpu. You have the hot side a water loop to dump heat to probably 3 rads each with 3 120mm fans. Then the chilled side, a water loop to your cpu & gpu. It seems key to me to have the TEC coolers controlled by an arduino, that is monitoring the discharge cold water temp from the TEC, and comparing it to the local dew point inside the case, cutting power to the TECs when you’re within 2 degrees of the dew point. It would probably be a good idea to have thermal mass in the cold water loop, for when cpu and gpu ramp up and down. Maybe an insulated LTT tech bottle? Probs wouldn’t hurt on the hot side, but not entirely necessary. Little things I would then geek out on are the cpu and gpu being piped in parallel on the chilled water loop, with balance valve so you could divert flow for optimum temps between the two. I’d prob have all the hot flow go through 1 rad first (as it would be at high temp and thus dump heat quickly with the air), and then the second rads in parallel, running at lower temps but having a lot of air to approach ambient. Maybe experimenting with arrangements here would be fun. But the key part of it all is that arduino monitoring chilled water temps, as to not have condensation on the cpu or gpu. Which I think is one of the main faults with the coolers shown in this video, second only to their cooling capacity being much lower than the max power consumption (thus heating capacity) of the cpu.
I have to wonder if splitting the hot, out-loop, and sending equal amounts of water to both coolers wouldn't have worked much better. It would slow the water down while inside the cooler, allowing more heat rejection. Then combine the Peltier water outlets to send a single loop back to the CPU.
@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 But at a low enough voltage such as at a measly 12V DC, it couldn't overcome a human's body electric resistance so it is relatively safe. Amps still needs voltage to be dangerous.
@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 I'd say a TEC is quite reliable as it lacks any moving parts, except the water cooling part of course. It'll probably hurt the PSU like any other component if the peltier module does fail. It has contact with the CPU lid, but not the CPU itself as it's insulated unless you use a conducting TIM.
Cool fact: some dehumidifiers use peltier modules to dehumidify rooms as the warm humid air is drawn pass the cool fins the water is condensed and drips into a collecting tray in the bottom of the dehumidifier.
peltier chips are good for one things: using a joule thief circuit along with it you can make diy flashlights that are powered by your body warmth. power input creates temperature output and vice versa.
@casey360360 I should've mentioned the flashlight it'd be powering up p is not a very bright one, still useful though. Are you serious about the vest? I gotta look this up lol. I got a feeling It's probably gonna end up with me going down a rabbit hole.
I used Peltier cooling on a dual PII (300MHz) machine about 25 years ago. I've still got the coolers (60W each IIRC) and heatsinks in a box somewhere. They were better than stock fan cooling but not by much and the current draw for the Peltier devices was a problem for the wimpy PSUs of the day.
@@robertsneddon731 that sounds about right. I had one for an AMD K6-2, I think, might have been a K6-3. Got it from Maplin. Never really impressed me much so went back to an OG fan.
Bad Cooling Idea: 1: Take one shop vac hose 2: Attach PC fan with air flow direction going into hose and a variable speed controller. 3: Place or attach the opposite end of hose to front of PC case. 4: And here is the tricky part place the fan end out the window into THE COLD DEAD CANADIAN AIR! As a Wisconsinite I'm quite positive this set up should have some cooling effect 3/4 of the year. 5: the other 1/4 just duct tape the end to the AC output. (I'm talking Air Condition not Alternating Current) 6: Then crank up the AC and wear your LTT Hoodie available at........ Oh poo I forgot where to get those. Well that project's scraped.
Cooler Master V10 Air CPU Cooler had a peltier supporting the otherwise MASSIVE cooler . Cant remember when it was first launched BUT 2008-2009 would be my throw at it.
Hey can you test the cooling performance of the radiator by itself, against the radiator PLUS one of the chiller elements in the same loop? I think thermoelectric cooling may be a better assistant than the sole cooling power
Cooling is all about surface area. The water passing through a radiator is run through extremely thin pipes so it cools down much faster. Since the water in the Peltier loop was only passing through a small CPU block, it didn't stay in contact with the TEC long enough to cool down. It's like holding a match up to a 20-foot water pipe as the cold water passes through thinking you're going to get hot water on the other side. Slowing the flow of water would have been my first choice. My second choice would be to run the two TECs side-by-side on a single surface and use a much larger block with a chamber effect so the water has to pass back and forth over the surface several times. This may have worked better than using two large CPU blocks since the heat dissipation area was only about 5.12 square inches.
most car 12V "fridges" use TECs. But they can only do 20C below ambient. Cheapest compressor based fridge I found for a car, was at similar price as my home fridge.
Linus: "We're about to get cool, people! But first, a word from our sponsor..." It's too bloody hot to wait much longer to cool off, Linus! Addendum: Well, damn, he surprised me, too!
Couldn't you hook up like a 240 radiator before the water goes out of the reservoir or after it goes out to further increase Performance? I mean it doesnt need to be a good one just a cheap one would probaply do fine.
If you can't find a good cooling solution for the PC then you can always do so for the environment! Liquid Nitrogen Room Cooling RGB Linus! I want to see it!
My girlfriend's nephew fried his CPU with toothpaste as thermalpaste. I was like "nah, it's not the toothpaste, maybe it didn't connect properly. Here's my old mobo and CPU, try it again!"
Why not combine a standard loop with a fish tank chiller? The radiators still do the majority of the cooling. The chiller can be used to lower the water temp even further once there is enough radiator and fan capacity to keep things under control. With a temperature comparator to monitor ambient air and water temp and control the chiller, the water could be brought down to ambient at idle. At load, the radiators will do the majority of the cooling, the peltier just assisting the existing radiators. Thereby avoiding any issues of throttling by the peltier.
Trivially less effective because of science. P/A=sigma T^4. You just killed your radiation. Now you need to unload your thermoelectric heat as well. Very bad idea.
@@danielmorton1606 What? Why are you talking about irrelevantly small radiation losses in a system dominated by convective heat transfer? If you can dump the thermal energy of the coolant from the CPU water block using a standard ambient temp limited cooler, the peltiers can then "pump" energy out of the now close to room temperature coolant so it can be sub ambient. This is about the only way a system like this makes any practical sense.
@@TheNiktron I was replying to the top comment which specifically mentions radiators which and mentions nothing about liquid cooling. Radiators radiate heat. Even when considering air convection the delta temp matters. Placing it on a radiator doesn't make sense because it also needs to heat dump. Even what you mentioned is still just a refrigerator coupled to a liquid cooling which yeah it will improve the system, but so does water flow and volume. The only "practical" sense is to not use peltiers. You are better off with other refrigeration methods or even a phase change.
The only thing I have every found them useful for is that when I was a truck driver in the '90s, I had an Igloo cooler that had one built into it that was designed to fit in a specific space in Freightliner sleepers. It worked great. Never found a useful application again. They have a COP of about 2 max if you can find a place to dump the heat away from what you are cooling.
Tip for the blender benchmark, don't use the BMW for heavy testing, try the cosmos laundromat one!! This one brings my pc to its knees! The cpu has no time to get warm on the BMW
I ran usually a 180w Peltier sandwiched between "hot" and "cold" plates with the water block atop the "hot" plate and that had its own specific water circuit with a secondary circuit for the GPU, RAM, bridges etc as the Peltier could seriously warm up the water and the last thing you wanted was to wash your other components with warm or hot water. Special grease had to use as well to prevent any chance of frosting on the cold plate which would have condensed atmospheric water into ice, then melted zapping your components with angry pixies. I got into all that for an overclockers forum challenge of getting an AMD single core cpu (Barton) to 3ghz, still got a box full somewhere of the dead NF2 DFi Infinity motherboards, OCZ ram, 9800GTX vid cards and about 30 cratered AMD 1700(M) laptop CPU's and the one I got my name up on the leaderboard is in there too... lasted a few days before cratering but in those days 3ghz gaming was insane :)
The objective of cooling system is not to mask heat with cold but to pump it away. Fridges work exactly like this. When you pump cold air or water in, it warms up (2nd law of thermodynamics). Heat sink is called so for a reason, it basically drains heat away like a sink drains water. That's why they're usually warm. Your fridge has a radiator behind, it is usually warm because all the heat inside the fridge is transferred into the radiator and it gives the heat away. Peltier plate warms on one side (CPU), cools on the other (inside the body). Heat is converted into electricity. It can be used to power the cooling fans, if no or not enough power comes in then they can use motherboard power. Fans have to blow cool air in and hot air out. You would rather have a computer work like a fridge or an air conditioner.
“But what’s even cooler!”
*gets ready for sponsor*
“Are these coolers”
Me: What?
i literally double tapped my screen to skip at that part
Yupp me to 😅
@@mdante6236 Yep, pavlovian dogged it as well.
need a Linus Tech Tips plugin which automatically skips all sponsorships
@@psider1522 Are you willing to pay a fee to keep watching LTT? Because that's how you end up there.
Hey no fair! You did a Thermoelectric video too! Well at least they are a bit different!
My associate, would you please be kind enough to ship a Circuit Specialists Inductance-Capacitance-Resistance multimeter to Latvian region?
In other words: GIMME DA MEETAAA!!!!
I actually came here from your video! XD
@@xiidraco yea lol me too
you should try to adapt a liquid desiccant cooler ua-cam.com/video/R_g4nT4a28U/v-deo.html
lel.
"Bad Cooling Ideas"
Whole Room Water-Cooling 2 confirmed.
Scrolled down looking for this comment.
Was not disappointed.
Do you think if he does it again he will be smart enough not to use bare copper tube in the room he is trying to remove heat from?
Room cooling was good, just the implementation fo it, number of little things added to it not working as expected.
Whole room water cooling. In the server room! Whole server room water cooling!
Whole room PET cooling 1.0 Alpha build.
Yeah ! More than half the power is wasted in Heat
yaikes
Yiayks
Yaikys
yippie
You mean 100% of the power turns into waste heat.
Dad: What would you like for Christmas? Son: A Dragon! Dad: Be realistic.
Son: Okay, how about part 2 of Linus Tech Tips 10 Years of Gaming PCs.
Dad: And what color would you like that dragon?
MSI red
KGB coloured dragon
Oh sorry I meant RGB😏
"Bad" color
Green is not a creative color
@@arvindraghavan403 KGB is after you
Edit: LMG, please read and try this
Try running them as a supplement to the radiator! Connect them after the radiator to see if you can get an extra boost in cooling compared to a standard water cooling set up!!!
Stick one in a reservoir
@@TheVillainOfTheYear one of the flat sides of the peltier needs to be not in contact with the reservoir for it to work. simply putting it in, keep all the heat in the liquid and adding some because the wattage of the peltier itself.
Yes PLZ Firts a radiator and than a Peltier element wound be awsome! and might even be the first "good" Bad cooling idear.
@@testjeaapiel9707 have in flow on that water block go into the Peltier and the out flow for into the res.
I think just running one of those aquarium coolers after the radiator would suffice. Putting a peltier into the reservoir would add complications. It may be better for space. But it's not necessary for a proof of concept. Something custom would have to be designed and possibly 3D printed in order for that to work. For a commercial product, (assuming a peltier helps) it would sound like a good idea though.
32 amps... lmfao...
"Ok alex, fire it up!"
(kerchunk)
(sudden random shouting throughout the offices as power breakers are tripped)
I thought the same, talk about energy efficient that's almost 10x the draw of the rest of the computer! And it probably still won't be enough, it's like launching a rocket; you need more energy to dissipate the energy it uses, then you need more energy to dissipate that energy.
32 amps... at 12 volts, so... 3.2 wall amps. A typical home outlet can handle 15, some 20.
@@jetjazz05 That's still a significant 384 watts consumed regardless of voltage. I can't imagine my fans using ~380 Watts to cool my computer.
@@UltraNoobian Sure, no doubt, it's a ridiculous amount. Really nothing uses that much power besides like a fully operating entertainment system, a computer, some power tools. I've got a fan that uses 384 watts, it can pull all the air out of a 12x14 room in a matter of seconds, so for that to be just a very poor quality cooler... nah. Would probably be more energy efficient to use an ACTUAL FRIDGE with a huge spool of tubing in it lol.
Watts = Volts × Amps
Anyway the reason it needs to draw so much is because it is actually working as a heat pump. Basically all refrigeration are heat pumps where heat is being pulled out of a low energy state (your cold food or room) and being "pumped" up and out into a higher energy state (ambient external air). But in order to do that the pump needs to be powered with equal the amout of energy being moved plus efficiency losses. So if the CPU is consuming 100W a perfect refrigeration system that's 100% efficient would have to consume 100W to bring the CPU back to ambient temperature and even more to get it below ambient.
I had an idea a few years ago, but have lacked the motivation to try it out. You keep the traditional water loop setup including rad, but insert a peltier device into the loop after the radiator. You have a thermocouple on the water block that is connected to the peltier and a humidity and temperature sensor measuring the ambient air hooked up to a micro-controller which controls the voltage applied across the peltier device. The micro-controller ensures that the temperature of your coolant never goes below dew-point, so you don't have to worry about condensation, and the peltier does not draw as much current. There is definitely some risk here of your radiator actually working in reverse and heating the coolant, depending on the thermal output of the system, but if you had a loop that cools not only your CPU, but also GPU and potentially MOBO chip-set (and maybe even RAM - because after all this is a crazy idea in from the get-go), I think there is little chance of the coolant reaching the rad at sub-ambient temperature.
That was not fair, the traditional watercooling solution had RBG fans while the peltier on had non-RGB. Everybody knows that RGB boosts cooling up to 50%
It also increases framerates and improves hand-eye coordination, reaction time, and basic pattern recognition skills.
RGB also enables the ability to download free ram and drive storage
@@tgreaux5027 ok just letting you know that there is no such thing as RGB envy broski. My £12 mouse has rgb. Bruh moment
Best troll reply of the day. Well done, sir. Thank you for the giggles.
I don't get your jokes. It's just more load.
Everyone gangsta till Linus finds a liquid nitrogen cooler
ikr
A cryogenerator
@theKingofRandom
Too normal like a normal overclocker
@@austinan473 didn't he die?
0:50 who else thought he was going to say "But what's even cooler, is today's video sponsor" lol
i hit right the usual 5-6 times expecting the intro but i just missed content lmao
Yiff kinkdom
@@kepler656 how you know me broh
Sounds like we're revisiting this from the "The Fastest Gaming PC in the World! ...For now" video.
yes
yeah thats why im here too
Same ahahahah
I guess we all are here for that until Linus makes a whole video
Yup thats why I'm back watching this again
I think Der8auer build a chiller out of 12 TECs a few months ago
Wow, think of how much power that required.
@@Pwnstared i think it were a few hundred watts
He also tested it directly on CPU. Very old video. It will work, but problem still the same - it's need more power.
Der8auer made 2 videos on this. The second video was an update. But it was not too successful. But hay just like everyone. The more Tech Ideas. The better for the Tech Community.
@@rusTORK i don't think 3 or 11 Months are “very old“ but ok
4:01 *linus pretends to tighten screw while alex looks worried that screw is not tightening*
Assistant has a name... of some sort. Alex? At least I tried. It's important to try. People are real people, should be honored as such.
Zebulon Virginia It was spur of the moment, could not recall his name and didn’t want to lose the content
I feel like Alex never reads a script or planning
When your PC cooling requires it's own miniature power plant just to keep the CPU at sub ambient temps.
But how do you cool the power plant...?
@@obliviouz This is a computer tech channel, not a science channel. ;D
We're talking about Linus, not Cody or Tom Scott.
@@obliviouz typically water
@@obliviouz air
it's too bad you can't turn your pc into the powerplant because it gives off so much consistent heat. unless this tech exists and i just have no clue because i'm a noob at this stuff?
anyone have a clue if something like this exists?
I had a friend in high school in 2001 who built a TEC for his Athlon XP system and made a water cooling system using a motorcycle radiator. This is old news to me and people keep trying it. I can't imagine trying to cool off a Pentium 4 system during that era with a TEC without breaking a kilowatt of energy.
"In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!"
my favorite Homer quote
No, not really. More like obey the laws of human stupidity...
_Unballanced wheel stops spinning._
But if you had the choice...
@@BetterDeadThanRed99 well things getting more chaotic over time is both true for thermo dynamics and human stupidity
Linus going for the party in back look.
whats wrong with that?
@@dolmiominmio1776 Everything
At least he isn't wearing a sideways hat again. I couldn't even watch that video
@@rxallan20 I don't know about that look and I'm glad I don't
"Magic is not real."
Says a man who was at some point in his life cursed to drop anything and everything.
Fatty Corpuscle wait if your peter and im peter than who’s the real peter....
Except his balls
@@ivanshen7263 Got em.
That's not magic, that's luck. Luck is totally real. Magic is fantasy, luck is statistics.
people will see the decibels and think "wow its half as loud as a jet"
Isn't it a logarithmic scale
@@KatieTheDev Yes
@Sam Wikipedia copy pasta
@@Alislaboratory at least he read it. OP didn't.
6:49 wanna congratulate Linus on keeping that yawn back.
his face is so warped
😂
LOL
PLEASE stop working with vincero watches. There watches are cheap made and crappy. It's almost a scam for way they cost. Please stop Linus please.
Just like MVMT and Daniel Wellintwat
But he wants money
Siem dude that was kinda my exact comment, nice to scroll n see someone else thinks the same. Those watches are ridiculously overpriced. Literally it’s a $20 quality watch max selling at over $200 bucks. It’s a crazy scam and ppl falling for it because trusted channels like these guys promote it. Kinda shitty thing to do just to make a buck man.
@mohamed khan not even 20 Dollars... You can buy some of the watches on wish and other china trash websites for 5$ or less... Absolute Trash.
And no, its not "almost" scam, it IS SCAM
@@mohamedkhan5207 This comment chain describes Apple well
Bad Cooling Ideas : Using a sterling engine hooked up to a motor to pump the heat out of the CPU.
Andrew Vanderschaaf lindybeige turn you on to the sterling engine?
Stirling engine*
Use the heat differential generated by the CPU to run the Sterling Engine to pump the water to cool the CPU. It's perpetual genius!
@@reeceguisse17 If you can engineer that, that might just work, too. Because it's not "perpetual". There's a definite energy in/out, of the power into the CPU, and the heat out of the heat exchanger.
If you're going to use a sterling engine, you'd have to thank God for it.
The Peltiers becoming an insulator is absolutely true. I bought 2 of them as a kid to cool a CPU and if the CPU gets too warm, they basically become heaters and the more power you dump into them, the more heat comes from both sides…
Soy, it does not work for reduce the heat of a Cpu., why?
@@marioj6330 well a peltier module has a ratio of what maximum heat it can dissipate. lets say if your hot side is on 50 C then the cold side will be 5 C. but attach an radiator at the hot side to reduce the tempt to 25 C then the cold side will be lower than 0 C. now back to your question. it cannot reduce the heat of a cpu because the cpy destroys the hot and cold ratio on the 2 sides of the peltier module. the radiators or lets say heat dissipation system is not instantaneous and not 100% efficient as it can only draw such heat from the source. Thats why when the cpu is running and getting hotter, the peltier follows that hot and cold side ratio but with the cpu running the cold side is 30 C warmer(still increasing) and the hot side is already burning hot 70 to 100 C. the figures i said is just for representation and not its true value if applied in its formulas. but you can get the point of why it does not reduce the heat of a cpu
so, it actually starts cooking your cpu?
With a good insulated heat sink shouldn't it do no harm?
Hey,
So I have been messing around with TECs for the last 2 months in my spare time and I have found that "overclocking" (overvolting) the Laird Thermal Systems ET15,24,F2,5252,TA,RT,W6 which is purchasable on digikey for about 60 CAD to around 46v which I found was best for directly cooling a cpu. The power consumption was nearing 900w but with 2 360mm radiators and the water temperature around 30C, I was able to cool i7 940 (yeah I not gonna use this on anything too new) at 4.4ghz at 1.43v while remaining sub ambient. I have already built a few peltier prototypes and I live in Coquitlam, BC so if you would like I can bring them if you would like to explore TECs further because its actually pretty fun for a silent subzero fun time.
Electricity Bill:
*Allow us to introduce ourself*
I built, and still have, my TEC Swiftech waterblock like what was mentioned in the video that I paired up to my Core 2 Duo E6600. It was backed by a 3 120mm fan radiator and definitely got the job done under load never getting to above 80F/26C. The problem was when the CPU idled, the temperatures would drop to about -16C(!!) and I could never insulate my board well enough to prevent condensation from forming.
I don't have it hooked up to anything anymore, but it's a pretty cool trick to show people how fast it'll freeze a wet paper towel.
@@eddiemuller3157 Just add a thermal controller to turn on and off the peltier and keep it at 26C
@hardware fanboi When you care about CPU temperatures but not electricity costs.
Linus has to see this, it would be a great video
The most badass CPU cooling system I ever saw was a copper pipe welded to a copper plate, insulated with foam, and filled with liquid nitrogen, for the ultimate ridiculawesome evaporative cooler of all time.
People use those things to set overclocking records. It really is nuts. However liquid nitrogen, without some way of returning it to liquid form continuously, isn't a long term solution
crazy stuff.
I also love the immersion cooling solutions by 3m that have come out recently... i think it's called novec. basically looks like a pc submerged in a liquid that's boiling. By following all the bubbles, you can see all the hot spots on the cpu/gpu and memory.
Don't ignore those who immerse the entire motherboard in oil.
@@jackhemsworth7515 At that point you should just stick the whole rig into an oil filled industrial freezer
@@jackhemsworth7515 It is also used for quantum systems and magnets. Generally, you simply feed liquid nitrogen into the system and exchange Dewers as they empty. Liquid Nitrogen is actually cheaper than milk per liter, but is a terrible idea for cooling as it is an expensive hazard to the computers.
If you use a 300W peltier on a 100W cpu now you have to dissipate 400W. That's why it will always be unpractical.
It's impractical, but if you're into xoc it's impractical anyway.
@@Daniel-ub7ueI think that the peltier module just transfers the heat elsewhere using electricity, but at the same time the energy it's using also generates heat
@@phantombitly It works by having two plates. One of which is hot, and the other cold. If you bring electricity into the system the plates get hot/cold. Otherwise is you heat up one plate, and cool the other, it generates electricity.
@@phantombitly somewhat right. When you add power the Peltier module absorbs hear from one side making the other side cold. Cold enough to instantly freeze a drop off water with a 9v battery. They use these in hot/cold water dispensers, mini refrigerators etc etc
@@Daniel-ub7ue that wattage is not removing heat, one of the laws of energy is that energy cannot be destroyed nor created,peltier works by creating a difference between the plate using the energy,after that the energy become waste energy (heat)
I love that I'm seeing this right after Intel released their first consumer Thermoelectric cooler. The results are amazing, I can't even lie. Watched one on a 5950x all core 4.8ghz to 5ghz boost clock at 45 degrees C which is bloody insane.
It's discontinued now.
@@TheGrammarNazi123 cool
Bad Cooling Idea:
Custom Watercooler filled with thermal paste.
YES!
liquid metal lol ua-cam.com/video/XqvBLBlzeNQ/v-deo.html
headphone warning and speaker warning too - skip the first 35 seconds because intro song is complete earrape
But that's not water anymore...right?
@@wu1ming9shi my thoughts exactly
You'd need a 100,000 RPM pump or something lol
It's just as dumb as gold plated fiber optic cables
Cough, looking at you, toslink cables
Thomas Huang LOL is that so they conduct electricity better?
TechnologyConnections subscriber spotted
Please tell me this doesn't exist. This would be even below protecting one´s signal from earth gnomes.
@@hotzi9288 they do exist, search toslink on Amazon and plenty of them are gold plated.
@@gameconsole9890 Go back to your cave and write an essay on proper application of lame memes.
I worked in a lab for two summers working on thermoelectric materials with heating and cooling.
I am currently sitting here cringing through the entire video.
why would someone make this product?!? I mean, with Sony's aircondition does it make some what sense. But this? cringing with you body.
Us too :p
@@LinusTechTips It was entertaining!
How would you make it?
definty you wouldnt
I had a CoolIt! cooler (whatever their higher end one was called) back in the day. The design was quite different from this; it was effectively an AiO cooler that had TECs between the loop and the radiator. Worked quite well for several years, up to the point that I ultimately had a pump failure.
The pumps always fail on these units. Im still using a modified FreezeOne that works on modern cpus. Replace the pump, the fan ( 120mm mod ) and the block and you have a great cooler. I ended up replacing the lines with Tygon chemical grade tubing for longevity. For even safer cooling, cover the resevoirs with closed-cell padding to avoid condensation.
Next, try a TEC and a radiator in series, because science.
First the radiator hopefully (to bring temps down to nearly ambient, then sub-ambient, so that the CPU is just a bit higher than ambient).
Yea, Please do that :)
doooo iìiiiiiittttt Linus! Alex must put this together! who cares if it consumes 32 amps or 3000 watts, we need to see this!
Yeah . Too many tech channels set things up to fail. Id like to see what it would take to make TEC viable on modern CPUs . Well i know how id do it, i just want to see others use their brains
Something I figured out when I built a pretty decent custom loop with 2 GPUs, a CPU, 2 rads, and 4 inline thermometers in different places: Loop order doesn't matter. At all. No matter how I loaded the system or ran the fans, all 4 thermometers were always within ~.1C of each other. Sure, the whole loop temperature would move up and down with system load and fan speed, but all of them would move together.
So yeah, loop order doesn't matter.
....jesus. That Peltier you ordered draws more power than my entire machine. And, I run an overclocked Vega64. Thefuck.
*Laughs in r9 295x2*
I had a machine where i measured well over 500W consumption at one time - overclocked Phenom II x6, GTX295, somewhat inefficient power supply.
I should actually measure my current machine, which is still the same Phenom II X6, still the same Bronze class power supply, but the GPU is now GTX970 with a good bit of an overclock, which shouldn't actually be THAT bad. A coarse estimate told me i can expect 175W out of the CPU package on my current overclock. I think i can do more than 300W at least.
@@technologyanimals Yeah well certainly not brave, broke and indecisive. Phenom II is no longer fully usable. While the performance is still borderline tolerable (but it's been 9 years since it used to be a high-end CPU), the compatibility plain isn't, newer software frequently demands SSE4.2 or SSE3S and those are left missing from the CPU.
But i paid mere 110€ for the CPU new from a store, and it served a fair good while. There was a time a few months ago when all the stores were dumping their FX-series stock and i could get something like an FX-8350 for 70€, but those are gone now, now you'd have to pay silly prices on the used market, completely indefensible. Will be considering a full system rebuild with an older-gen Ryzen. Alternatively i could snatch up a cheap FX-6300 or something - while the performance is likely to be a wash, at least the compatibility would be better and i can probably limit the power draw quite a bit.
I am awaiting delivery of Shenmue 3 and i'll probably be interested in CP2077 and probably Watch_Dogs Legion. Then again i won't pay full price for Legion so that'll have to wait a year anyway. Legion won't run on the Phenom, if all the last year's Ubi releases are anything to go by, and a severe suspicion that Shenmue 3 and CP2077 won't either.
Yeah, those were great deals, got my FX8350 for $60 and swapped out my Phenom II x6 1090T so I could play more games. Performance is a quite a bit better and it's about the max my motherboard can support at that power rating.
@@SianaGearz you should do it like I do, either get a 2600x Ryzen for like 150€ or a 3600 Ryzen for like 50€ more.
Combine that with ATLEAST a 450 board (for future Cpu upgrades) and the system will be fine for the next 5 Years+.
(Also I recommend atleast 8GB 3000mhz Ram)
AND THATS COMING FROM A guy with an i7 2700k on an Asrock Pro3Gen3 Z68 Board...
Vincero watches put commodity Quartz movements that cost single digit dollar amounts in cases that cost not much more, and then they sell the watch for $100s
its crazy to see how far you guys have come in only 3 years. confidence and production value is exponentially higher
Jeez I remember peltier coolers back pre 2000 to allow CPU overclocking to 200MHz+ :)
Glad to see on other old school guy om the comments :)
Same here, i had it on a p3. I could never stop the condensation.
when linus said there may be older ones, i thought back to the celeron 300a days.
@@johndeerrm Imagine if you could like take the Noctua design back in time and emm patent heatpipes.
Then you get condensation
Ok, Linus and ElectroBoom both have a thermoelectric cooling video out within 24 hours of each other. Strange...
But Mehdi is a bit "nerder" therefore no use for 99% of Linus's subscribers aka schoolbois, aka have you finished your homework? aka it's summer mom
Both Canadian?
Linus’s videos are always in queue and filmed WAY before they come out... look at for example...when one of them gets a haircut and comes on WAN and then look wt the most recent video 😅😅 you’ll see the new haircut after 2-3 weeks 😅
You know what else is strange?
TODAYS SPONSOR...
@@ticTHEhero Boy you really love using "aka".......
Linus "Thermoelectric cooling is a bad idea"
Also Linus "Cooling with concrete kinda works!"
Yeah that was April 1 tho wasn't it?
Like cooling with concrete, it kind of works, and like concrete, it's a bad idea. I hope you aspire to higher standards than "kind of works" in your PC builds.
@@tankermottind shut the fuck up
@@ayylmao5955 Sheesh. Who hurt you?
@@hs_doubbing you shut the fuck up too
0:29 Alex smile priceless
yus
I want to see him grow up strong and healthy
I remember to have done the calculations for Peltier cooling on the late 90's or early 2000's and the numbers get really fastly big. When you use a peltier, you want:
1°) deltaT (hot temp - cold temp) as big as possible.
2°) hot side (and so cold side) as cold as possible.
Then comes the problems: A peltier element can achieve his maximum deltaT when the heat input in 0w. When the eat input match the peltier maximum power, the deltaT become 0°C. It means that a peltier has to be much powerfull than a CPU if we want it to be well-cooled.
So for example a 25W AMD K6-2 from this old times, to be quite well cooled, you need a 80W+ peltier. A 80W peltier means 80W power absorption capacity. And so 80W+ power consumption and eat generation. So the cooling system have to be big enough to evacuate 25 + 80+ = 105+W heat instead of the 25W from the CPU alone.
Also sometimes, a peltier fries. So he become a powerful heat generator, leading to to the CPU to follow it in his death.
16:29 *drops bench*
His face: That was worse than expected, hopefully linus doesn´t...
At least you can use this to get free water from air.
Oh wait...
Fontus intensifies
lmfao
Buy our new LTT water bottle with including non drinkable water
Nestlé dislikes this
Free with purchase of hundreds of watt-hours of electricity.
Back in the day Corsair made a TEC water block for ram which is actually practical as ram doesn't make enough heat to overwhelm the TEC but is temperature sensitive enough to benefit from superior cooling from a TEC.
Naw, it's awesome!
I remember when people TEC cooled Celeron 400s...
I almost miss my dualie Celerons...
@@thoughtlesskills i miss microsoft internet explorer & my 300a .... and interstate 76 !!@$
Those were the days.
I tried that... only time I ever actually cooked a cpu, glad it was just a celeron. Lesson is: don't put the TEC directly on a chip without an IHS.
ua-cam.com/video/T87tqpNkI18/v-deo.html My Peltier cooled PC
"My air conditioner doesn't have [a bluetooth speaker]..."
MY air conditioner doesn't have an AIR CONDITIONER.
My air conditioner has an extra H at the front... But it's really compact! =:o}
@@therealpbristow ahahhaa
Stock up those Peltier resistors, use about 5 one on to of each other, parallel connect them, such set up of dozens is used to create true cryo temperatures
The first Peltier CPU cooler for the PC market came up in the 486 era (i.e. before Pentium). The issue was that the extreme cold could lead to condensation, icing, and even embrittlement severe enough to snap the mainboard in half with vibrations if mounted vertically.
The 1990s were wild; many chips could be clocked 50% above design specs back then.
"Maybe it just wasn't mature enough."
Alex: *chuckle, look of disbelief*
I saw the title on my Firefox notification and I was like "this sounds like a Linus video. and that other guy who fiddles with electrical stuff". Been a while since we've seen Alex haha
TECs can be great, when done properly....
Like with my 400w TEC getting an athlon Xp Barton to sub zero temps with a liquid system chilling the hot side. And a second psu dedicated to the tec.
....as you said "in the old days"
Diavuno similar here, K6-2 450 @ 540 MHZ at -20 C using peltier and custom watercooling loop in 1999.
"TECs can be great"
like the one keeping my food cool on my road trips :)
0:50 "But what's even cooler, is..."
Who else braced themselves for "OUR SPONSOR!!!" ??
ME
And add it started, I skipped ahead. I'm heare to learn from others mistakes so I don't have to waste my time and money on things that don't work. I actually pay for UA-cam to avoid the 2-ad-per-minute nuisance. I'm not here to buy things I don't need.
The TECs can stacked. The TECs give approximately a 30°F difference. So when you run water across 1 and then another, you give it more time to lower the water temp but can never get below the limit of ~30° before ambient temp. However, if you put 1 TEC directly on top of the other, then you can get ~60° drop in ambient temp.
Now try putting the TECs directly onto the CPU (using thermal paste). You can then put a water block on the hot side to send the fan cooling to another location.
You can also use antifreeze in the water which absorbs heat better than plain water alone. There are other chemicals that absorb heat even better but some of those are expensive or they are poisonous to breath (ammonia) and so not good for residential use.
@@SI-GOD this is great info! Do you have a demo? Video? Or web page and pics?
The only thing that matters in a sustained workload is the surface area of the fin stack. It doesn't matter whether you move the heat with heat pipes, water or TECs.
Also the temperature Delta (Fins/Ambient) matters, so if you could have a magic TEC, which could move the heat for free (and brakes thermodynamics), your fins would be more effective and you could use less area.
On my MacBook Pro laughing at Linus’ reaction to a 100°C+ core temp as I burn my nuts.
"Weakness disgust me"
I successfully used an 80-watt peltier on my PC back before you guys were begging for happy meals. I inserted it between the CPU and the heatsink, and used lots of silver-based thermal goop. With the exact same fan speed settings, I was able to drop the core temps by 6 degrees C, and thus achieve a 67% overclock, compared to a 50% overclock. That meant I saved about $1,000 on the CPU. So the extra power wasn't really an issue.
More recently, I designed and built a Peltier-based stove fan for atop our fire. It uses an alloy base to absorb the heat, and a massive old Coolermaster heatsink with 6 heatpipes. The temperature differential drives a 12" RC plane propellor which blows air over the heatsink, and maintains a 40-50 degree C difference between the two sides of the peltier. This generates 1.3 volts, and enough current to drive the propellor sufficiently quickly to remove a huge amount of heat from the flue.
To avoid heat-soak, the device has to sit perched right at the front of the fire, so that cool air from in front of the fire can be pulled in to cool the heatsink. The thing is so well made, that it starts automatically when you light the fire, and it runs until the firebox cools to the point you can just touch it.
Exactly. A properly designed thermoelectric cooler system can definitely work well. Stacking 2 of them in a multistage configuration also tends to increase the Coefficient of Performance (COP) and decrease electrical consumption for a given amount of cooling.
This video still pisses me off everytime it pops up. What's next? "Freon cooling is a bad idea". Pc cooling is actually one of the use cases where peltiers can make sense, you just have to actually think instead of strapping stuff from ebay together and then say "muh thermodynamics" even though your engineering is the reason it failed
Back in the late 90's I had a peltier on my K6/2-500. I do not know who made it, but it was just attached to an aluminum heatsink, 60mm fan. I never had a single issue with it. Used it for about 3 years then gave it away. It came from a buddy who worked for a tiny town PC shop. The owner, in his 80's was 100% convinced that ALL limits had been hit, and wouldn't sell a high end PC without one. Then Slot1 came out. Someone asked me years later what I did about condensation. I told him I do the same people with a 100% acrylic case do about EMI. I don't think about it. Also bear in mind that my peltier was on a soc7, in a desktop case, no cover, extra PSU on top, 2 extra 5.25" drives, a stack of HD's, and a box fan bungied to it blowning down.
Linus: but what’s even cooler
Me: Skips 20 seconds
Also me: shit
I did the same thing. I think they're getting wise to our ad-avoiding strategies.
Kota W. XD
Lol! I was somewhat surprised that there was no sponsor until the end.
If you like the content, why would you avoid the ads? There's a price to pay for everything, if you value it, pay for it. Aw damn, this got my brain arguing with itself over thermodynamics again X/
FortisProcer I’m confused. Did you guys miss 1:25?
Ask Der8auer. He has a Peltier cooler that works great.
It just needs a lotta power.
A lot of power and a lot of heatsinks.
Well if it needs a way lot power than decent air cooler or water cooler then it's basically poor idea. Most likely you'd cool down more efficiently with refrigerator and still with better results. So, yeah, TEC is dead, at least in PC world/
I remember seeing my first (and last) Peltier CPU cooler in the Pentium Pro days, which would be late 1995 to 1996... There was concerns and issues with condensation back then, as there was no regulation of the Peltier cooler, so it always ran at full blast, potentially getting cold enough to condense water from the air...right on top your CPU.
The Peltier needs to be PID controlled to maintain a constant CPU temp. There's not really a need to keep the CPU so cold. A proper PID will be able to regulate the peltier to keep the CPU from getting too cold. The PID also needs to be limited so that the Peltier doesn't operate at currents much higher than the COP maximum. That way when the CPU outpaces the Peltier the PID doesn't go past I_max and cook everything.
And that boys and girls, is why we have thermostats!
Peltier Coolers were used in the late 90's to early 2000's with the computer modding boom and worked very well for OC purposes. Buy a standalone Peltier that sits right on the CPU, then add a cooler to chill the hot side of the Peltier. If you look at a computerator build where the freeze tray is used to chill a bucket of alcohol, thats then pumped through a water block sitting on a Peltier. It gets stupid freezing temps. We had to add water proofing due to condensation, etc etc etc. most of this was completely impractical but was built just for fun. A favorite was a 400mhz celeron to overclock as these were basically just cheapy pentium 3's. @Linus
The logic of this sounds like...
"Let's cool all them watts, by adding MORE watts!"
That's pretty much how TEC works.
I don't want to see that electricity bill which will arrive afterwards...
@@SimonWoodburyForget I guess, but isn't the whole point of an air conditioner is that the reactions that occur outweigh the added heat of its power consumption, if that makes sense? Well, certainly in that it pumps the heat away, so I guess it doesn't outweigh per se. Or does it..? That's interesting and a whole other question I guess.
This almost sounds like you're pumping electricity directly INTO the device that needs cooling. But I guess that's not quite what's happening either the way Alex explained i. It just seems like this whole thing is a waste and that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know?
Many of those eBay Peltiers (assembled or just the chip) are not the power they state. I bought a 15-amp one and it was actually 3-amp and another was 8-amp.
There are scammers on eBay? Imagine my shock…
@@TruthNerds The variability is the result of the manufacturing process and the failure to test and rate the individual units.
@@davidmuth4571 With such a huge discrepancy I think it's more likely they print various model numbers on the same cheap units. How many people will actually measure the current draw?
@@Audio_Simon It's common practice among many DIYers to routinely test and sort various component parts. Audio modders test upgrade caps. R/C guys test their new motors, servos and batteries. CMOS chips which are processed in the same batch get ratings which determine their specs and price point. Chips from the same plate could cost as much as $1000 with a "0" rating, while another graded lower might cost $100. Variability in manufactured items of all kinds is a fact of life.
@@davidmuth4571 Everything you say is surely true. But in this case I just don't think production variability is what is what's going on. Are peltier 'chips' so difficult to make that they design it to draw 15amps and it only draws 3amps? That's 36watts instead of an expected 180watts.
Cooler Master V10 had one too! i had a q6600 cranked to the max with one of them and it ran SWEET
I came here because of the new MYSTERY EK COOLER in the fastest pc in the world which is obviously a mix between a normal liquid cooler + a peltier cooler.
ikr
luckily that one actually works
I think you can get really good results with this stuff if you use it smart: why not use it in series with a radiator so the radiator takes most of the heat out and the peltier kan chill the water below ambient. That way you use the strong points of both and the weaknesses of neither.
The only strong point of a peltier is no moving parts. Cooling isn't.
Most people have said that's the right way to TEC cool (if there can be a "right" way to do something so insanely inefficient). You don't want to cool the source with the TEC, you cool the thermal mass that it pulls from the heat source.
12:58 _Linus always has a simple solution to complete the loop in half the time. You only get that after years of experience, kids._
I remember seeing TEC coolers in computer magazines and catalogs back in 1998. They didn’t catch on due to condensation on the cold side. Given the control modern boards have, it would make more sense now though by the time it could have made sense CPUs started making so much heat that TECs couldn’t keep up.
I would love to see a project where you have an array of Tec coolers cooled on both sides by two large water blocks, where the cooling capacity is greater than the max power consumption of the cpu & gpu.
You have the hot side a water loop to dump heat to probably 3 rads each with 3 120mm fans.
Then the chilled side, a water loop to your cpu & gpu.
It seems key to me to have the TEC coolers controlled by an arduino, that is monitoring the discharge cold water temp from the TEC, and comparing it to the local dew point inside the case, cutting power to the TECs when you’re within 2 degrees of the dew point.
It would probably be a good idea to have thermal mass in the cold water loop, for when cpu and gpu ramp up and down. Maybe an insulated LTT tech bottle? Probs wouldn’t hurt on the hot side, but not entirely necessary.
Little things I would then geek out on are the cpu and gpu being piped in parallel on the chilled water loop, with balance valve so you could divert flow for optimum temps between the two.
I’d prob have all the hot flow go through 1 rad first (as it would be at high temp and thus dump heat quickly with the air), and then the second rads in parallel, running at lower temps but having a lot of air to approach ambient. Maybe experimenting with arrangements here would be fun.
But the key part of it all is that arduino monitoring chilled water temps, as to not have condensation on the cpu or gpu. Which I think is one of the main faults with the coolers shown in this video, second only to their cooling capacity being much lower than the max power consumption (thus heating capacity) of the cpu.
I have to wonder if splitting the hot, out-loop, and sending equal amounts of water to both coolers wouldn't have worked much better. It would slow the water down while inside the cooler, allowing more heat rejection. Then combine the Peltier water outlets to send a single loop back to the CPU.
Yes indeed. Having the TEC and water block positioned after a radiator would offer some much better results.
"Draws 32 amps"
"From Ebay"
Sounds...safe...
Nmotsch idontwannagivemyrealname At only 12V DC it is safe.
@@CurtisLittlechild92 Voltage isn't everything. And you're trusting that it works properly.
@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 But at a low enough voltage such as at a measly 12V DC, it couldn't overcome a human's body electric resistance so it is relatively safe. Amps still needs voltage to be dangerous.
@@munchbit Isn't the real danger in if (and when) it eventually fails? Also, what about safety in terms of safe for your computer components?
@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 I'd say a TEC is quite reliable as it lacks any moving parts, except the water cooling part of course. It'll probably hurt the PSU like any other component if the peltier module does fail. It has contact with the CPU lid, but not the CPU itself as it's insulated unless you use a conducting TIM.
Put a tec inbetween a refrigerant phase change system block and the cpu. It doesnt really work, but thats sort of the point of these videos.
Cool fact: some dehumidifiers use peltier modules to dehumidify rooms as the warm humid air is drawn pass the cool fins the water is condensed and drips into a collecting tray in the bottom of the dehumidifier.
You want to know what draws more power than these coolers? All of these plugs for LTT merch.
I could understand if it was at the end but as it is in this video? It just feels forced.
@@gnaurai6251 money is money
I don't understand how that hoodie is stealth. I can see it and I'm not even straining.
peltier chips are good for one things: using a joule thief circuit along with it you can make diy flashlights that are powered by your body warmth. power input creates temperature output and vice versa.
Long ago, a company sold a vest that would supposedly power your laptop with body heat. The vest was just a SHIT TON of tec plates.
@casey360360 I should've mentioned the flashlight it'd be powering up p is not a very bright one, still useful though.
Are you serious about the vest? I gotta look this up lol. I got a feeling It's probably gonna end up with me going down a rabbit hole.
people were trying to use Peltier heat pumps 20 years ago for PC cooling.
It didnt take off then either.
I used Peltier cooling on a dual PII (300MHz) machine about 25 years ago. I've still got the coolers (60W each IIRC) and heatsinks in a box somewhere. They were better than stock fan cooling but not by much and the current draw for the Peltier devices was a problem for the wimpy PSUs of the day.
@@robertsneddon731 that sounds about right.
I had one for an AMD K6-2, I think, might have been a K6-3. Got it from Maplin.
Never really impressed me much so went back to an OG fan.
@Heads Mess 7:30 it shuts down at room temperature.
Bad Cooling Idea:
1: Take one shop vac hose
2: Attach PC fan with air flow direction going into hose and a variable speed controller.
3: Place or attach the opposite end of hose to front of PC case.
4: And here is the tricky part
place the fan end out the window into THE COLD DEAD CANADIAN AIR!
As a Wisconsinite I'm quite positive this set up should have some cooling effect 3/4 of the year.
5: the other 1/4 just duct tape the end to the AC output. (I'm talking Air Condition not Alternating Current)
6: Then crank up the AC and wear your LTT Hoodie available at........ Oh poo I forgot where to get those.
Well that project's scraped.
Cooler Master V10 Air CPU Cooler had a peltier supporting the otherwise MASSIVE cooler
. Cant remember when it was first launched BUT 2008-2009 would be my throw at it.
Who’s here after 2020 fastest gaming PC video ?
I am 😆
Weird seeing Linus without a beard again XD
I'm coming from his Water Cooled Chair video
Hey can you test the cooling performance of the radiator by itself, against the radiator PLUS one of the chiller elements in the same loop? I think thermoelectric cooling may be a better assistant than the sole cooling power
Cooling is all about surface area. The water passing through a radiator is run through extremely thin pipes so it cools down much faster. Since the water in the Peltier loop was only passing through a small CPU block, it didn't stay in contact with the TEC long enough to cool down. It's like holding a match up to a 20-foot water pipe as the cold water passes through thinking you're going to get hot water on the other side. Slowing the flow of water would have been my first choice. My second choice would be to run the two TECs side-by-side on a single surface and use a much larger block with a chamber effect so the water has to pass back and forth over the surface several times. This may have worked better than using two large CPU blocks since the heat dissipation area was only about 5.12 square inches.
Very informative video. I had no idea what a TEC was until today. Thanks for the great video as always! 👍
most car 12V "fridges" use TECs. But they can only do 20C below ambient. Cheapest compressor based fridge I found for a car, was at similar price as my home fridge.
Linus: "We're about to get cool, people!
But first, a word from our sponsor..."
It's too bloody hot to wait much longer to cool off, Linus!
Addendum: Well, damn, he surprised me, too!
Couldn't you hook up like a 240 radiator before the water goes out of the reservoir or after it goes out to further increase Performance? I mean it doesnt need to be a good one just a cheap one would probaply do fine.
If you can't find a good cooling solution for the PC then you can always do so for the environment! Liquid Nitrogen Room Cooling RGB Linus! I want to see it!
Maybe put the radiator on the warm output side of the CPU so the water going into peltiars is a little cooler?
1:23 wait is that a stone?
Next time use toothpaste as thermal paste
It's Alex's original DIY heatsink, a really poorly done lump of cast aluminum with even worse "fins". =)
My girlfriend's nephew fried his CPU with toothpaste as thermalpaste.
I was like "nah, it's not the toothpaste, maybe it didn't connect properly. Here's my old mobo and CPU, try it again!"
They already did use toothpaste for a video.
Why not combine a standard loop with a fish tank chiller? The radiators still do the majority of the cooling. The chiller can be used to lower the water temp even further once there is enough radiator and fan capacity to keep things under control. With a temperature comparator to monitor ambient air and water temp and control the chiller, the water could be brought down to ambient at idle. At load, the radiators will do the majority of the cooling, the peltier just assisting the existing radiators. Thereby avoiding any issues of throttling by the peltier.
Water loop for the next video should be CPU -> Radiator -> Thermoelectrics. Really curious how effective that would be
Yeah, I was hoping they would do that on this vid, could have actually been a sub ambient coolant setup if the rad was big enough
I wonder if it would work stuck on the side of a reservoir or something so that it could be in contact with the water for a longer period of time
Trivially less effective because of science. P/A=sigma T^4. You just killed your radiation. Now you need to unload your thermoelectric heat as well. Very bad idea.
@@danielmorton1606 What? Why are you talking about irrelevantly small radiation losses in a system dominated by convective heat transfer? If you can dump the thermal energy of the coolant from the CPU water block using a standard ambient temp limited cooler, the peltiers can then "pump" energy out of the now close to room temperature coolant so it can be sub ambient. This is about the only way a system like this makes any practical sense.
@@TheNiktron I was replying to the top comment which specifically mentions radiators which and mentions nothing about liquid cooling. Radiators radiate heat. Even when considering air convection the delta temp matters. Placing it on a radiator doesn't make sense because it also needs to heat dump. Even what you mentioned is still just a refrigerator coupled to a liquid cooling which yeah it will improve the system, but so does water flow and volume. The only "practical" sense is to not use peltiers. You are better off with other refrigeration methods or even a phase change.
Whip out the Tesco tower fan from your back pocket then. Obvs.
You guys should make a PC themed p0rn called ''Hot Motherboards Get RAMmed''.
basshead I hate that but I love that at the same time.
Linus has sucked so much dong its not even funny
Hot GPU gets taken apart and got thermal goop all over it
Chip’s day with his fans
The only thing I have every found them useful for is that when I was a truck driver in the '90s, I had an Igloo cooler that had one built into it that was designed to fit in a specific space in Freightliner sleepers. It worked great. Never found a useful application again. They have a COP of about 2 max if you can find a place to dump the heat away from what you are cooling.
Tip for the blender benchmark, don't use the BMW for heavy testing, try the cosmos laundromat one!! This one brings my pc to its knees! The cpu has no time to get warm on the BMW
When Linus said "And was even coller, is" I almost thought he was gonna Segway. Good for not being annoying today!
Next project: Einstein-Szilard Refrigerator cooling.
It would potentially be the ultimate quiet PC.
nice
I ran usually a 180w Peltier sandwiched between "hot" and "cold" plates with the water block atop the "hot" plate and that had its own specific water circuit with a secondary circuit for the GPU, RAM, bridges etc as the Peltier could seriously warm up the water and the last thing you wanted was to wash your other components with warm or hot water. Special grease had to use as well to prevent any chance of frosting on the cold plate which would have condensed atmospheric water into ice, then melted zapping your components with angry pixies. I got into all that for an overclockers forum challenge of getting an AMD single core cpu (Barton) to 3ghz, still got a box full somewhere of the dead NF2 DFi Infinity motherboards, OCZ ram, 9800GTX vid cards and about 30 cratered AMD 1700(M) laptop CPU's and the one I got my name up on the leaderboard is in there too... lasted a few days before cratering but in those days 3ghz gaming was insane :)
But he didn't use blowie matrons.........
yet?
Why not leave the rad in the loop?
CPU>radiator>reservoir>pump>TEC
16:15 oh goodness my man was just waiting for his moment to talk so awkwardly 😂😂😂
The objective of cooling system is not to mask heat with cold but to pump it away. Fridges work exactly like this. When you pump cold air or water in, it warms up (2nd law of thermodynamics). Heat sink is called so for a reason, it basically drains heat away like a sink drains water. That's why they're usually warm. Your fridge has a radiator behind, it is usually warm because all the heat inside the fridge is transferred into the radiator and it gives the heat away. Peltier plate warms on one side (CPU), cools on the other (inside the body). Heat is converted into electricity. It can be used to power the cooling fans, if no or not enough power comes in then they can use motherboard power. Fans have to blow cool air in and hot air out. You would rather have a computer work like a fridge or an air conditioner.
"cool" video, but I'm not here for that… may I have that wallpaper please 6:27
AFAIK It's on their twitter as a runner-up in the LMG Lounge wallpaper contest
@@qwertychouskie7815 Found it! Thank you so much, may Lisa Su bless you!
Who came here after 5.7Ghz 10900k?
hopefully you realize why this video doesn't apply to what you're looking for
I think you need to look for some LN2 or liquid helium cooled CPUs. However, I don't recall anyone doing that to a GPU.