After years of mulling over it, my interpretation is that the covenant engineers were actually an earlier, less refined experiment by the original engineers. Somewhere between engineers and human. If the Prometheus engineer was ancient then perhaps the covenant engineers, like humans with Christ saw them as gods and the return of the juggernaut would be the equivalent of the return of Christ in Christianity which is why they were celebrating. Unfortunately they got David instead. Romulus really changed everything we thought we knew about the xeno. If the black goo originated from the xenomorph and was a tool for the engineers and ultimately David rather than the other way around then the original derelict might not have been a war ship at all. It could have just been a cargo ship carrying xenos to harvest for the pathogen when something went wrong. Pretty fascinating how just a few pages of dialogue has the potential to re- contextualize so much in the series.
The black goo mutates xeno’s in the games and comics btw. Sure it can be explained as gene mutations like we have with our DNA but it’s kinda lame for the “perfect organism” to be mutated by the goo
I don’t think the black goo originated from the xeno the black goo created the xeno and the many versions that would be extremely dangerous. Interesting theory either way good movie Romulus was I saw it yesterday
The earlier Drafts of Prometheus indicated (as well as Concept Work) that the Engineers arrived in a familiar Horseshoe Shaped Ship). The Engineers being Gardners of Space is something that RS wanted to explore more than the Xenomorph. If we take the Sacrificial Scene.. a Engineer is dropped off at a World and consumes the Sacrificial Substance.... his broken down Genetic Soup giving Life. If the Engineers instead Sacrificed a number of their kind and collected the resulting Genetic Soup into Ampules/Urns... Then dropping these to SEED Worlds would be a more efficient means to carry out the task. If this was the prime reason for the Juggernauts and the Engineers saw that being chosen to be a Sacrifice is seen as a Honor and of Great Importance... The Engineers welcoming the Juggernaut Scene without initial Fear, then makes more sense. And so does the Statues of various Engineers in the Courtyard (in Honor of the Sacrificed maybe?).
Yes, your theory I believe is correct. Don't think of it as "types" of engineer: it's simply that they modify DNA for utility. I believe they encountered the xenomorph relatively early in their species' history and the xenomorph's reproductive cycles influenced the engineers' entire technological development. I actually believe their ships are pseudo living things, too, built from DNA.
Yep, I believe this is why the Engineers in Covenant both looked more human and reacted that way to the ship arriving. They had long lost the bio-technology that elevated their race into giant demigods and viewed the ship as a legend/prophecy from antiquity, bringing back their Prometheus fire, so to speak. They reacted to the ship arriving in the same way humans might react to religious figures appearing out of the sky and their "faith" was "rewarded" in the same manner as Shaw and the captain.
And it killed them all. Which was a cool idea, but I still can't figure out why there aren't more of them on the planet or who didn't come out to view the ship. It's a city afterall
based on their city maybe they've always been ancient. they did not progress to Engineer levels then lose it. just another interesting theory with no real evidence... yet.
The planet in PROMETHEUS was a Military outpost, so that means the bio-mechanical Engineers are soldiers. They were likely not just enhanced for survival in deep space, but combat as well. With their exoskeleton serving as a form of organic armor similar to shellfish. The Xenomorphs shed their skin as they grow just like a crab too.
We don't know 100%. I bet if u could ask Ridley he wouldn't answer. It would give away his ideas for future films. Engineers in PROM could be a rogue set. Like terrorists doing their own bidding. We don't know yet. They could also have suits on Markan OR it could be them playing with pathogen for their own purposes. It is like armor. BUT ship is designed same way. There is no definitive answer yet. The deacon does not look like the xeno. But their skin suit and ship design does. Ridley would have to still be thinking about how to tie this all together. I"M TELLING YOU... Ridley,,, in spite of all the haters,,,... is a very smart guy and doesn't do anything without a LOT of thought. He must have a dozen more TWISTS and Surprises we can't even imagine yet.
Id agree they are military and the form is enhanced biomechanical to enable wars and space look at the muscle on the neck etc.And the black shit is kept away from harm on a deserted planet or outpost to stop accidents as its very volatile. I'd say the cheer from the lesser engineers no military was because the ship dave rhe droid was sailing may well of been a royal or higher vehicle so they thought ay up visit time and davo the druid pops up an nukes em all .Gay
Remember in Prometheus, there's a xenomorph mural on the wall. The Engineers worshipped the xeno, and i really believe the Engineers discovered the xeno homeworld while exploring the stars and thats how they extracted the black goo. They reversed engineered it to enhance themselves and to create life. Weyland Yutani wants to reverse engineer it similar purposes but havent fully modified it to a stable substance yet. Really hope we get more Engineer references in future installments. Possibly an engineer fleet confronting humanity for decimating one of their planets.
@@idiot_city5444 Where did he say this? When did he say this? Thats not what the movies imply , simple and most logical explanation is budget constraints.
@@idiot_city5444 The movie implies David is getting revenge on the Engineer's world, for threatening Earth. Only in apocrypha is it revealed David is 💣ing them for Shaw - the woman he 🔪. No where is it said that the more primitive Engineers were created similarly to the humans on Earth - they had a massive anachronistic spaceport floating above their village! It really wasn't clear, though you may have felt it so - most of the lore wasn't in the movie.
Another big plot point that gets forgotten about is that if you notice the ship in the beginning of Prometheus isn't the juggernaut that is found later. So there are two factions of engineers. I believe this was covered in the Colonial Marine's videogame as an easter egg. You find a Hologram that shows the Juggernaut and the other craft fighting. They both crash and that is were the derelict on LV-426 comes from. So I always thought that you had the science engineers and then you had the military engineers.
There was shot scenes of the Engineer walking across the surface of LV-223 without any mask etc. This was Cut because it would conflict with the Re-shot Dr Shaw vs the Engineer which shows the Engineers Face Burn happened before he arrived at the Lifeboat (original it was caused by the Trilobite)
I think this theory is more a fragment of a larger possible theory Romulus gives us. The Engineers aren't one race, they're actually a convergent evolution of multiple races. The Space Jockey from Alien is from a much older race and perhaps one of the original Engineers. As Engineers seed worlds with their own DNA mixed with the Black Goo, new races evolve. These races eventually gain the ability to traverse space and are presented with a test: What will they do with the goo? Some races try to play god and give rise to xenomorphs. Other races harness the goo for scientific advancement and the goo evolves them to become a new breed of Engineers. The greed or compassion of a species plays a large role in what they become. Meanwhile, those who have already become Engineers aren't immune from darker emotions, and the Engineers who hate humanity fear that we are on the cusp of becoming xenomorphs, while the more peaceful Engineers prefer to wait and see. Those engineers who have biotech are a caste that have devoted themselves to continuing this cycle and perhaps go through several evolutionary steps before that final sacrifice and may not be any one specific species. In other words, Romulus completely rebrands the franchise. Where the original movies brand xenomorphs as the aliens and the Promethius duology has Engineers as the alien, Romulus instead suggests that WE are the alien and both the xenomorphs and engineers are part of our past and two potential evolutionary futures for our species as a whole. And personally speaking, if they run with this idea, I think there's a MASSIVE future for the franchise with possibilities we've never dreamed of.
I've always thought the Engineer starships, the Juggernaughts were also bio engineered. Organic starships. Designed to survive for extended periods in space and are biologically linked to the Engineers.
I think you can for sure extrapolate that after the interview Fede Alvarez did with Variety where he stated the it was clear Engineers came from the black goo. Which I don’t think it was clear. I believe you said that in a previous video as well. I think in his discussions with Ridley this idea was told to him and it became canon in his head. Ridley loves to go back and add or change lore after the fact. I don’t know if he meant that all life in its entirety including the engineers come from the goo or that just the engineers + what they made do but it’s an interesting concept that I like much better than it being strictly an experiment they made. They obviously have reverence for it with the mural walls from Prometheus.
It is my belief that the race David destroyed was another seed race of the engineers like humans. Because these "children" were obedient and had no technological way of challenging the engineers these were an approved of race, making a good juxtaposition with humans. This race regards the engineers as deities, proven by the scene where they gathered and extended their arms towards the docking ship David was on, a return of the Gods moment. Which also makes for an interesting moment for David, he essentially annihilates a race of "Davids" that the engineers created, possibly why he wept during the act. This also aligns with the themes of creators and the purpose for their creations.
After rewatching Prometheus and Covenant, I figured that David was crying when he released the pathogen to the engineer people because it was tragic, but necessary to him in his grand scheme of conquering and creation. This is foreshadowed at the very beginning of Prometheus when David is watching the old film on the ship while everyone is in cryosleep and repeats the quote "The trick... is not minding that it hurts." And also when he states that death is necessary for new life (or something along those lines.) At least, that was my interpretation of the two movies combined, it just made sense to me. Poetic.
I think this makes the most sense because the engineer kills David when he realizes he's a robot. They were going to destroy their seed colony "earth" because we created things that would lead to David like AI
fully agree with your theory here - in fact came here to say the same thing. Another human like race created by the engineers but not the engineers per se
Yes, this confirms the old theory that there are at least two different factions of the Engineers. I just want to know why they weren't on David's butt in a second when he terminated their whole crew? They must've had connections with other worlds, unless they purposely isolated themselves.
Prometheus actually had good lore threads. However, It is somewhat difficult to create lore and Mythos for world building when al the studio and the audience want is “more Xenomorph, more Xenomorph”
@@Wazszsa I also thought Prometheus was promising, stupid horror tropes aside. But you're right. It's hard to stick to one's gun in a world where information and feedback on your work are almost instantaneous.
Awesome, Mr. H. - I'd say you have hit on exactly what Ridley Scott was designing into his Engineer mythos in Prometheus. I always wondered what it was about those "suits" that seemed to blend into the Engineers' biology, LOL. One has to wonder if the space jockey was actually an even more evolved (or black-goo modified) Engineer, incorporating into its biology similar devices to what the space-faring Engineers of LV-223 had their "navigation chairs" automatically grafting onto their bodies pre-flight.
This is a solid theory, all things considered. One would have to assume that David transmitted all of the work the engineers had done leading up to his present day. Knowing this, the Company would replicate the engineers work around advancing human evolution.
Aliens dark descent just included a space jockey type of race grown out of walls. If you haven’t you should look up the titan xenomorph and the cutscenes because it’s all very geiger
Pretty much spot on theory I think.. Pisses me right off They make another film with more questions than answers.. should start calling the whole franchise Ridley's riddles 🤣
I think that's pretty sound because it's either two species or two factions. I do like the idea of two species. The ones David destroyed in Covenant were the ones that wouldn't harm us. While the ones at the end of Prometheus simply have a superiority complex and would gladly wipe us out.
The one at the beginning of Prometheus is probably from a different faction of the same species of Engineer seen at the end. They're physically near-identical but their motivations conflict.
You know, it makes sense why the military unit from Resurrection just cloned Ripley and the Xenomorphs instead of trying to find a planet with Xenos already on them. They were afraid of finding the engineers and the pathogen that they would use to wipe out the human race. That's just my opinion, though.
Great video Nate! I always saw the engineers "flight suit" as being bio mechanical since it blends perfectly with their skin. Love the theory of two engineer types. Just hope that future installments continue to go in a great direction. We talked on twitter a few days ago about David not creating the Xenomorph as we know it, would love to see some videos on that topic since Romulus added the pathogen. Hope you heal up quickly!
In Covenant the Engineers looks like this because they couldn't make the more sophisticated make-up from Prometheus to many people. It was too expensive.
It is good they made the Xenomorph the centerpiece of this franchise again and not David inferred as the creator. I think they are the universe's cleansing fire and what happens with species who want to become gods. It explains what happens to Kay's baby. And it is a never ending cycle we could be repeating.
I wish the prequel films had ignored the Xenomorph after the Deacon reveal. That was the only connection we really needed. Imagine all of the interesting directions we could have gone in if the films weren’t pressured to shoe horn the xenomorphs into it. Its pretty clear that Alien: Covenant (originally Paradise Lost) wasn’t originally meant to have xenomorphs.
I agree.. it would've been far more interesting if they explored the universe and bigger and different types of xenos instead of the drone type in most of them
Unfortunately the franchise is mired in branding to the casual fandom, in the way that Silent Hill as a franchise CANNOT escape Pyramid Head. At the least, I don't know why we didn't get further comics exploring prequel, black goo, engineer mythos.
They tried with Raised By Wolves to not include the Xeno although there are similar creatures. Those creatures are a throw back to a canned Alien script, written by the dude who wrote "Pitch Black".. A lot of these story lines that are more interesting were forgotten in favor of the Xenomorph. Raised By Wolves wasn't successful and got canceled by the 2nd season before the story could lead anywhere. General audiences were not interested in that brand of sci fi and how it was done.
I have another theory mate, the Space Jockey used the black goo extracted from Xenomorphs to create the Engineers, and that’s what Alvarez might meant by saying they came from the black goo
I find the engineers so interesting. It’s so sad they were pushed aside in Alien Covenant. Maybe They shouldn’t have said Prometheus was like a sequel to alien or something
They gave in to the snowflake fans who cried about "not enough xenomorph!" in Prometheus. The original sequel to Prometheus: Paradise Lost was so awesome sounding and it's a shame that we never got to see that.
The problem wasn’t that it was set in the Alien Universe. It was completely fine just being a spin off. The problem was that they caved into the complaints of fans who thought it was going to be a traditional “Alien” film. Instead of just continuing in the direction it was meant to go in. This is one of the rare occasions where the fans were actually wrong at the time.
@@plasmaarmelundthat sounds like a red herring or some made up excuse by a clueless studio executive. The only gripes I heard were characters doing dumb annoying things. I wasn’t online back when Promethes released so maybe their was some backlash I didn’t see from 2012-2015. Still, Ridley could’ve cooked a better movie. John Logan sucks balls, imho , so if he was involved with a engineer focused movie then I suspect it still flops.
@@captaincrunch1707Ridley made my favorite movie of all time which is blade runner but other than alien and blackhawk down I honestly think the dude is ass. All his other movies don’t do it for me
Why are you guys butthurt about what the OP said? lol. He's right. You can argue producers interfered. You can argue some part of the fans complained. Hence, RS had to change or twist the story to satisfy them, going awry from his original vision. But final product speaks for itself. RS was confused himself, didn't know what he was doing. Personally, I liked the Prometheus route. You guys should know pure Alien fans didn't like it. We end up with Covenant because of it. It ended satisfying neither.
In a previous video of yours Fede Alvarez said something about engeneers being from the black goo or OF the black goo (something along those lines) maybe this is what he was referring to?
Because they dont think these things like that, they think of them as "plot devices", people put too much into thinking for them, they simply though... we need to plot to move forward so we need a "map", this is basic Hollywood writing trope. If you want create a universe you need some kind of "lore Bible" which they dont have.
I am glad they brought the engineers back in a bit of a twist in Romulus. That said, the black goo remains as mysterious as ever. In Covenant, it was clearly a weapon as when David released it, it caused almost the same reaction to the humanoids there as when the engineer drank the golden liquid in the Prometheus intro; they sort of disintegrated and fell apart. Romulus seems to be saying that the black goo is a product of the xenomorphs, produced or obtained from their bodies. The implication here is that the engineers have a history with the xenomorphs, as shown in the big head room murals in Prometheus. If that is the case, it would be interesting to find out more about how/when the engineers came across the xenomorphs and how the liquid is "processed" into a form that isn't a deadly weapon and horribly disfigures and kills lifeforms that come in contact with it.
On a side note, after rewatching Prometheus and Covenant, I figured that David was crying when he released the pathogen to the engineer people because it was tragic, but necessary to him in his grand scheme of conquering and creation. This is foreshadowed at the very beginning of Prometheus when David is watching the old film on the ship while everyone is in cryosleep and repeats the quote "The trick... is not minding that it hurts." And also when he states that death is necessary for new life (or something along those lines.) At least, that was my interpretation of the two movies combined, it just made sense to me. Poetic.
Mr. H please make an Alien timeline video. I see so many others channels making them but I trust you the most when it comes to Alien/Predator. Good luck trying to explain Prometheus and Covenant 😅
3:52 Mr H but I guess if it wasn’t for his bio engineered suit, he wouldn’t have held off as long as he did during the scuffle with the trilobite! And it would’ve devoured him as soon as it grabbed him had he just been wearing the Gregorian robe his ancestors wore in the beginning of Prometheus.
I believe the engineers on Planet 4 was the DNA fork in their species. They can travel in space etc, however the transformative affects of the goo meant that one segment of society, by choice or policy needed to retain the original DNA thread, while another would be augmented by the goo. The fail safe was that if the augmented version couldn't procreate one or twenty generations down, then the original thread wasn't at risk. The Predators have also assimilated with the goo and other species to be battle hardened; at their core, they wouldn't risk all.. They've have an original thread, like the one in Prey, to allow normal genetic or evolutionary processes to persist. The risks of the goo or mixing DNA is fraught with unknown hazards. The whole species is at risk. The Engineers and Predators who are scientifically mature, weighed the risk and created their own balance. Planet 4, one of many per the star map on board the ship, was one original DNA thread. Those that were augmented, would oversee the worlds and protect them; planet 4 in Covenant was well masked and not easy to detect. This was by design by Type 4 or 5, or greater Kardashev scale civilizations.
Bro deserves to be minimum over 500k subs wtf is this I bin watching for a couple years now semi consistently whenever projects I love release and I want his opinions, and like I’m shocked he’s not passed the 500k mark. Everybody sub up deadass 💀💯
Even tho Prometheus showed the Engineer getting into the "cockpit seat" in a "space suit" I still refuse to believe it is the same as the Space Jockey. Alien Romulus did do a lot of good in correcting the Xeno and black goo relationship. Maybe the next good Alien film (if ever) will correct the Space Jockey vs Engineer "space suit" problem.
That's exactly what I've been saying since Covenant, but since there's no one in the movies to explain it to us or even an archaeologist who can read the engineers' writing, we're left with our guesses. That's why the prequels are so good, since they show us the civilization that can synthesize the pathogen at levels that would take humanity centuries to complete.
Dear, Mr H I gotta say i am a fan of ur channel! & Quiet enjoy many of the reviews u do!.. i Adore Cinema & All it's Glorious Creations over rhe Decades..with exception of last i say 10-15yrs Cinema has gone dry for lack of Creative properties..70's & 80's for me was THE BEST ERA..(i was born in mid 70's) & properties like StarWars, Back 2future,Poltiergiest, & so on are incredible & ALIEN/ALEINS is a huge one for me!!.So this subject is very dear one this topic is very interesting! (U manage to point out something I'd miss watching Prometheus sevreral times & that is that biomechanical suite is Actually his body Woah that's deep!!?..(i dont know how miss that) maybe cauae i didn't watch any bts footage..BUT I MUST RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE ON THIS whole 2 Breeds !!?...(IF WHAT WE SEEN IN ROMULUS THEN THERE MUST BE 3 BREEDS!?) ..HOW DO U COUNT FOR LONG TAIL & THE EXTENDING TONGUE?!?..IF FROM WHAT U PIONT OUT THE 2BREEDS HAVE NON OF THOSE FEATURES!!..(& Saying this that is my problem with the ending of Romulus) it's twistin the whole black goo out of context!..(Why would the girl pregant baby be born with Engineers feature as if the goo i Has a cloning effect or something?!? (That make No freak"n sense!) even the Engineer. /SpaceJockey was supposed was chestbursted by Xenomorph like creature in the 1st movie! So to me it makes No sense that an Engineer like creature would come from that girls birth!) Thus That should have been some variation of that or something Not a clone like Engineer Face!? & Qlso why wasnt the girl herself changed?!? Shaw gave birth to craeture Without direct contact form goo it was from her BF seed that happened..Ao how does sr directly inject with out some effects happing to jus her un born?!? It's just BS..& just a lack of thought on writer/writers & if u Really think about this whole black goo is going to debunk the Xenomorphs.. Cause accrodinf there while different type face f Alien now..that looks nothing like a Xenomorph & where do u fo from there?!? Are we expect more of hybrid Alien/Egineers species?!? Smmh pure Bullocks!!..(That movie had a Great start but that ending on sorry there's just No justifying & i think the Prometheus movie was an interesting & bold idea about the Prequel to Xenomorphs & i think the I'm want to continue on that the should make stand alone sequels much like Lucas Did wit StarWars..But to continue on the path of haphazardly throwing black goo in future films will be dangerous for the ALIEN FRANCHIAS IT IS!!..Let the Xenomorph be the fault createion for the goo but much like dinosaurs when recreated in Jurrassic Found away to continue to evlove ow that be that.
Makes sense , because the time from the first sacrificial engineer that drank the black goo at the beginning of Prometheus ,that seeded life on earth. Was obviously hundreds of thousands of years ago / millions of years ago . Perhaps the engineers only seeded human life and not all other life on earth , not sure Prometheus gets into that or explains it that deep. If that was the case; if it was all life that originaly started from that sacrificed engineer, it would definitely be millions of years . Either case , that vast amount of time would allow the engineers to evolve over millennia ( and some factions not ) . some factions evolved to eventually have technology integrated into their own bodies . Which is what we see in the engineer midway through Prometheus. It’s never explained whether the engineers actually created the first neomorphs ( we see on the wall in the chamber in Prometheus ) or whether neomorphs already existed and the engineers discovered them and extracted the black goo from them allowing them too seed life on planets for millions of years perhaps . Also, when they want to destroy life on planets as they wanted to do with earth as explained in Prometheus , the black goo could be used for that purpose too; as David demonstrated its power of death on mass in covenant . You are right in saying they may have been different types of engineers , the ones on the planet in the flash back scene in covenant, were obviously not as advanced faction of the engineer race. Then ontop of that we had sacrificial engineers that would go around seeding life on planets where they wanted; but at the same time there may have evolved war/ warrior space engineers as in Prometheus who’s job it would to to destroy life on planets when they see fit. To be honest I’m hoping for David’s story to be finished and perhaps if could tie into back end of how Romulus finished . I know a lot fans though want to see the back of the methos though that got introduced by Scott 🙈 Just think more xenomorphs , just gets more of the same and boring , but I wouldn’t mind the back story of how David had then created the xenomorph as we now it now and made it into the perfect killing machine , Basicly follow on from covenant , there’s a huge story there how he experimented to finally get the xenomorph to the one we have in Alien and onwards. Expansion of the universe is better and will have more longevity. Though I know a lot people hate the idea and of the engineers 🙈can’t please everyone🙄 Though I except i’m in the minority 🤣🙈
Love the theory/explanation content. Alway’s a pleasure to watch and explore. Makes perfect sense that the engineers experimented with the pathogen to enhance themselves for deep space travel, and why the biomechanical nature of their appearance mirrors that of the Deacon/Xeno. Although I imagine the trial and error they went through to perfect what we saw in Prometheus must have been deadly and potentially why we saw the hologram playback of them running away. Having too much of the pathogen results in the mutation we saw with Fifield, while having a massive amount simply deconstructs the organism like the sacrificial engineer.
I assumed that the robed figures in that Prometheus deleted scene were older engineers, hence their withered appearance next to the more ripped sacrificial guy. However, the engineers on LV-223 definitely look like a more militaristic breed, especially when compared to the inhabitants of Paradise.
No, the idea was that Christ was a human or half engineer. He was then brought to Paradise as a young man and was taught and learnt their ways and then was sent back to Earth teach humanity. That's what I read.
The only issue I have with this theory is one brief shot in the crossing short released for covenant. David sees the engineer suits in the ship. Other than that it's a fascinating theory
@@kellyredfearn537 the original derilict craft looks totally different the engineers designed according to the derilict but it was truly biomechanical unlike the engineers craft plus the original body is quite larger and was solo in its cockpit? i dont think that the derilict is even part of the engineers civilazation its a far more ancient alien species and civilazation.
@@DakotaCoughlin the only issue is Scott has stated that he retconned the space jockey into the engineer. The size difference and set design has always bugged me as well but I've kinda created the head cannon that the ship on the Prometheus planet was preserved due to being buried by the sandstorms. Lv426 seemed to have rockier terrain and the original ship was not only exposed to the elements on the planets surface but also contained xenos which could explain the more bio mechanical appearance. Obviously all of this amounts to Ridley Scotts stylistic choices but it's still fun to connect the dots. The only issue is the size of the space jockey as compared to the engineers but given the introduction of genetics into the series it could all be a part of the evolution of the engineers into humans. The space jockey created the Prometheus engineers by harvesting the mutagen from the xenos and were revered as gods. The Prometheus engineers which were smaller in size took the mutagen and used it for their own creations and so on and so forth right down to humans. Each generation stealing fire ( the black goo) from the generation before and paying the consequences.
So there's 2 different breeds of Engineers Well for me I kinda like the original idea of the space jockey from the Dark Horse Comics they look like tall elephant looking aliens.
The theory is sound but Ridley Scott changes his mind and perspective, like a lot. When you watch the prequels, you get the distinct feeling that the painted mural of the queen xenomorph has been around for a long time and see that the Engineers have been in space for a very long time but then Riddley Scott said in an interview that David created the xenomorphs and then in another interview he’s said that they were David’s version of the xenomorph. Then he said that the people David killed was the Engineer home world and then he said later that it was a different planet of Engineers or colonists. Ok, so which is it ? You see how this is a problem and this is exactly why I wasn’t happy with Alien Romulus bringing in the prequel information. I’m fine with the experiments but the black goo stuff and the Engineer half bread alien, really should’ve been saved for a different movie. It’s fine that Weyland Yutani is doing experiments to enhance human physical attributes for space travel. There are factual accounts of astronauts reporting dis-orientation and muscle weakness from being in outer space as well as depression. Being outside of Earth’s atmosphere causes weakness in bone structure. It’s not good for humans to be outside of Earth in space. I think the species that David destroyed is an offshoot of the Engineer people or colonist. I have doubts of them being the Engineer people themselves. We’ll never get a clear answer until Fox Studio lets Ridley Scott finish Alien Awakening. As far as the derelict ship in Alien 1979 that was carrying all of those eggs. There could be a lot of reasons why they were moving them. They probably conducted an experiment on a planet to see what the xenomorphs were capable of and they picked up the eggs from the planet for storage and containment and annihilated the planet with the black goo to clean it up. They were probably moving the eggs to a planet with hostile organism and instead of using the black good to kill everything, they decided to use the eggs to seed xenomorphs on the planet to get rid of the problem then and there. Another reason, is there was an outbreak on their home world or colony and they were transporting the eggs to properly dispose of them and to not bring the xenomorphs back into existence. In Aliens, Alien 3 and even Resurrection Ellen Ripley talks about the company using the xenomorphs for the bio-weapons division. They knew exactly what they were planning to do with this alien the moment they found out about it. You can re-watch the prequel movies and Romulus all you want but in a company’s nature who has the military in their corner and government, having control of a xenomorph and acid for blood would be a huge advantage to kill outside military resistance or company officials who are whistle blowers and even get people to do something they don’t want to do and you have a programmed xenomorph to go after a person or a group of people you don’t like. That would be more attainable and enjoyable than helping people cope in space and become better equipped for space travel. You already see in every movie that the company has no regard or respect for human rights or human life. It’s about the money, power and longevity of aging that they want. That’s the biggest reason you see and understand why the Engineers wanted to end human life and start over because there was no humanity or love for one another.
I think the Covenant society was just another planet seeded by the Engineers and this one was in their favour and so they had been visiting it - hence the Mother Juggernaut and the welcoming reception the Juggernaut got. There was no sign of advanced biotech on the Covenant planet.There were the seeding Engineers we saw at the start of Prometheus and the Engineers in the Juggernaut - these simply being a military caste.
I think the sacrificial and spacefaring engineers are examples of genetically perfected/optimized engineers. The species at their highest genetic potential. The one with the spacesuit could be genetically modified for space travel by the black goo. Or perhaps it's their standard military "armor" that's integrated into their body thus demonstrating their mastery of genetics and the black goo. The engineers that got clapped by David I think were simply a planet variant of the engineer DNA. They seed life with an engineer that's "genetically perfect" and then the planet's own chemistry combines with that DNA and slightly modifies it. Thus creating a variant. Maybe they seed life on different planets with their own DNA and allow evolution to do its thing with random mutations. Each planet can be viewed as a petri dish. Out of these planets, they take the best ones and implement it into their own genome and that's how they've genetically improved and perfected themselves. Essentially they're evolving simultaneously in parallel on many worlds. So what usually takes a species millions of years is done in a fraction of the time. It's possible they view this process as pure, precious, and holy or something and that's why the engineer ripped off David's head and hit Peter Weyland with it. He was disgusted at Peter's attempt to initiate life through non-organic means and possibly his entitlement and belief that he is worthy of immortality. He sees himself "above" the natural process of life. And the engineer was pissed off at that level of extreme arrogance.
The problem with the theory is that the ancient engineers at the start of Prometheus have the appearance (fully black eyes) of the advanced engineer. I get that he has an explanation but it is much too convoluted to be good story telling. The series is a confusing mess. Let's be honest - Ridley just makes it up as he goes I always assumed this all be true, but also that the Engineers in Covenant had technologically regressed over millennia as well as evolved to become more planet based, hence why they look like us. One could say it's a different planet and they are not engineers, which what many of us thought on film release except that every interview states it's the engineer homeworld. Then you throw in the fact they are 1/3rd the size of the space jockey and have human proportions...urgggh I hate mystery boxes when it's a box in a box. It's a sloppy way to make something interesting
Watch the beginning of Prometheus again. He doesn’t drink black goo. He drinks something highly acidic, and it seems to react to something (probably oxygen) when he opens the container. Perhaps he drinks alien blood? It’s definitely not the same black goo that is introduced later on in the movie.
perhaps the o.g.engineers decided that they didnt need a species adapted to deep space and staged a sabotage on the planet from the movie Prometheus, and the biomechanical engineers, in turn, decided to improve themselves further, to the level of the space jockey from the movie Alien. realizing that they are now competing species with each other. so the engineer from Prometheus spoke to Peter arrogantly asking him the question “why did he decide that he is worthy of eternal life” implying that he is not a perfect species, unlike him, then he realized that David is generally a robot and that our knowledge of dna(life) is very are meager, and those engineers who decided to sow such a life were generally mistaken, because this life (we) degraded (from an ideal engineer who drank black-gold liquid, we eventually turned into ordinary people)
So I feel like you’re right on the mark, with a caveat. I wouldn’t consider them separate species, maybe more social castes. I think the LV223 variants fulfill a hybrid religious/scientific role in their society, specifically towards the ends of applying their religious philosophy of seeding life in the universe while also expanding their empire and developing weapons. I love how this still leaves the question of whether the black goo is A) something they found or B) microscopic, AI nanite swarm that they designed to restructure DNA
So when we look at the Engineers we can make one of 3 conclusions. (1) The beings in Prometheus are our Engineers (although they likely Genetically Enhanced themselves in the past). And Planet 4 contained another Sub-Created Humanoid Race the Engineers had Created. (2) The beings on Planet 4 are the Engineers and the Prometheus Engineers are Genetically Enhanced Super Engineers... they either Evolved themselves or were Created by Genetically Evolving a Fetus etc. (3) The Engineers were like the Planet 4 guys who Evolved themselves to the Prometheus Guys using the Pathogen and due to Problems they turned their Backs on this Evolution and reverted back to a less Genetically Enhanced versions.
Kind of like the difference between the TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons. Though I realise that's a 'matter that is not discussed with outsiders' as Worf put it.
I'm liking this theory mostly because it leads to an interesting and almost obvious conclusion to the franchise at a later date. Eventually humans will harness the technology for ourselves and become able to battle the Xenomorphs head on in a more fair fight, plus it will allow us to travel deep space. This could be possibly the best eventual ending for a franchise in history.
I'm only recently learning the whole lore thing with aliens. When we saw the goo being extracted. Is it possible that the xenomorphs do exist naturally but the engineers ,or something else found them and managed to extract the goo? I'm getting confused with the origins of the goo!
This definitely feels like the old school Mr. H Videos
Yeah these are my favorites of his. He really has that voice for these creepy explanation/theory videos. Glad he’s still doing this shit in 2024!
Agreed. Like his Lovecraft reading.
Hell yeah
And no politics.
I miss this. It's the only reason I watched him.
After years of mulling over it, my interpretation is that the covenant engineers were actually an earlier, less refined experiment by the original engineers. Somewhere between engineers and human. If the Prometheus engineer was ancient then perhaps the covenant engineers, like humans with Christ saw them as gods and the return of the juggernaut would be the equivalent of the return of Christ in Christianity which is why they were celebrating. Unfortunately they got David instead. Romulus really changed everything we thought we knew about the xeno. If the black goo originated from the xenomorph and was a tool for the engineers and ultimately David rather than the other way around then the original derelict might not have been a war ship at all. It could have just been a cargo ship carrying xenos to harvest for the pathogen when something went wrong. Pretty fascinating how just a few pages of dialogue has the potential to re- contextualize so much in the series.
That's an interesting point too!
The black goo mutates xeno’s in the games and comics btw. Sure it can be explained as gene mutations like we have with our DNA but it’s kinda lame for the “perfect organism” to be mutated by the goo
This makes a lot of sense.
I don’t think the black goo originated from the xeno the black goo created the xeno and the many versions that would be extremely dangerous. Interesting theory either way good movie Romulus was I saw it yesterday
The earlier Drafts of Prometheus indicated (as well as Concept Work) that the Engineers arrived in a familiar Horseshoe Shaped Ship).
The Engineers being Gardners of Space is something that RS wanted to explore more than the Xenomorph.
If we take the Sacrificial Scene.. a Engineer is dropped off at a World and consumes the Sacrificial Substance.... his broken down Genetic Soup giving Life.
If the Engineers instead Sacrificed a number of their kind and collected the resulting Genetic Soup into Ampules/Urns...
Then dropping these to SEED Worlds would be a more efficient means to carry out the task.
If this was the prime reason for the Juggernauts and the Engineers saw that being chosen to be a Sacrifice is seen as a Honor and of Great Importance...
The Engineers welcoming the Juggernaut Scene without initial Fear, then makes more sense.
And so does the Statues of various Engineers in the Courtyard (in Honor of the Sacrificed maybe?).
Yes, your theory I believe is correct. Don't think of it as "types" of engineer: it's simply that they modify DNA for utility. I believe they encountered the xenomorph relatively early in their species' history and the xenomorph's reproductive cycles influenced the engineers' entire technological development. I actually believe their ships are pseudo living things, too, built from DNA.
Yep, I believe this is why the Engineers in Covenant both looked more human and reacted that way to the ship arriving.
They had long lost the bio-technology that elevated their race into giant demigods and viewed the ship as a legend/prophecy from antiquity, bringing back their Prometheus fire, so to speak.
They reacted to the ship arriving in the same way humans might react to religious figures appearing out of the sky and their "faith" was "rewarded" in the same manner as Shaw and the captain.
And it killed them all. Which was a cool idea, but I still can't figure out why there aren't more of them on the planet or who didn't come out to view the ship. It's a city afterall
based on their city maybe they've always been ancient. they did not progress to Engineer levels then lose it. just another interesting theory with no real evidence... yet.
@@chrispekel5709the mutagen killed them all then mutated and/or birthed new creatures which then hunted down everything else on the planet
The planet in PROMETHEUS was a Military outpost, so that means the bio-mechanical Engineers are soldiers. They were likely not just enhanced for survival in deep space, but combat as well. With their exoskeleton serving as a form of organic armor similar to shellfish. The Xenomorphs shed their skin as they grow just like a crab too.
Alien awakening was going to see a war break out between the military engineers and the others after what David did to paradise
Yeah them engineers with the bio suits are like xeno engineers.
@@jeltoninc.8542 its not a suit its their skin
We don't know 100%. I bet if u could ask Ridley he wouldn't answer. It would give away his ideas for future films. Engineers in PROM could be a rogue set. Like terrorists doing their own bidding. We don't know yet. They could also have suits on Markan OR it could be them playing with pathogen for their own purposes. It is like armor. BUT ship is designed same way. There is no definitive answer yet. The deacon does not look like the xeno. But their skin suit and ship design does. Ridley would have to still be thinking about how to tie this all together. I"M TELLING YOU... Ridley,,, in spite of all the haters,,,... is a very smart guy and doesn't do anything without a LOT of thought. He must have a dozen more TWISTS and Surprises we can't even imagine yet.
Id agree they are military and the form is enhanced biomechanical to enable wars and space look at the muscle on the neck etc.And the black shit is kept away from harm on a deserted planet or outpost to stop accidents as its very volatile. I'd say the cheer from the lesser engineers no military was because the ship dave rhe droid was sailing may well of been a royal or higher vehicle so they thought ay up visit time and davo the druid pops up an nukes em all .Gay
Remember in Prometheus, there's a xenomorph mural on the wall. The Engineers worshipped the xeno, and i really believe the Engineers discovered the xeno homeworld while exploring the stars and thats how they extracted the black goo. They reversed engineered it to enhance themselves and to create life.
Weyland Yutani wants to reverse engineer it similar purposes but havent fully modified it to a stable substance yet.
Really hope we get more Engineer references in future installments. Possibly an engineer fleet confronting humanity for decimating one of their planets.
It is such a shame that for some reason Ridley Scott felt the need to remove all of the explicitly interesting ideas from the Prometheus' script.
Studio interference
The two kinds of Engineer are the same. The planet in Covenant just didn't have a gym.
@@idiot_city5444Thanks bro, sick and tired of people who could not see the obvious things..
@@idiot_city5444 Where did he say this? When did he say this? Thats not what the movies imply , simple and most logical explanation is budget constraints.
@@SweetandFullofGracegoogle is a thing.
@@idiot_city5444 The movie implies David is getting revenge on the Engineer's world, for threatening Earth. Only in apocrypha is it revealed David is 💣ing them for Shaw - the woman he 🔪.
No where is it said that the more primitive Engineers were created similarly to the humans on Earth - they had a massive anachronistic spaceport floating above their village!
It really wasn't clear, though you may have felt it so - most of the lore wasn't in the movie.
@@idiot_city5444 So you are not going to tell me where and when he said it?
Another big plot point that gets forgotten about is that if you notice the ship in the beginning of Prometheus isn't the juggernaut that is found later. So there are two factions of engineers. I believe this was covered in the Colonial Marine's videogame as an easter egg. You find a Hologram that shows the Juggernaut and the other craft fighting. They both crash and that is were the derelict on LV-426 comes from. So I always thought that you had the science engineers and then you had the military engineers.
3:53 So that explains how he was able to breath in the atmosphere of LV-223 without a respirator! 😮
There was shot scenes of the Engineer walking across the surface of LV-223 without any mask etc.
This was Cut because it would conflict with the Re-shot Dr Shaw vs the Engineer which shows the Engineers Face Burn happened before he arrived at the Lifeboat (original it was caused by the Trilobite)
The worst aspect of this is that Ridley's answer constantly changed when asked about this...
I think it positively. It open rooms for fans speculations.
Well cause he probably didn't have it all figured out, and probably still doesn't. Some writers don't like to lock themselves in
@mwont There is no point in speculating. There are no answers to any questions. He just made it up as he went a long and hasn't a clue.
I think this theory is more a fragment of a larger possible theory Romulus gives us.
The Engineers aren't one race, they're actually a convergent evolution of multiple races. The Space Jockey from Alien is from a much older race and perhaps one of the original Engineers. As Engineers seed worlds with their own DNA mixed with the Black Goo, new races evolve. These races eventually gain the ability to traverse space and are presented with a test: What will they do with the goo? Some races try to play god and give rise to xenomorphs. Other races harness the goo for scientific advancement and the goo evolves them to become a new breed of Engineers.
The greed or compassion of a species plays a large role in what they become. Meanwhile, those who have already become Engineers aren't immune from darker emotions, and the Engineers who hate humanity fear that we are on the cusp of becoming xenomorphs, while the more peaceful Engineers prefer to wait and see. Those engineers who have biotech are a caste that have devoted themselves to continuing this cycle and perhaps go through several evolutionary steps before that final sacrifice and may not be any one specific species.
In other words, Romulus completely rebrands the franchise. Where the original movies brand xenomorphs as the aliens and the Promethius duology has Engineers as the alien, Romulus instead suggests that WE are the alien and both the xenomorphs and engineers are part of our past and two potential evolutionary futures for our species as a whole.
And personally speaking, if they run with this idea, I think there's a MASSIVE future for the franchise with possibilities we've never dreamed of.
I've always thought the Engineer starships, the Juggernaughts were also bio engineered. Organic starships. Designed to survive for extended periods in space and are biologically linked to the Engineers.
I think you can for sure extrapolate that after the interview Fede Alvarez did with Variety where he stated the it was clear Engineers came from the black goo. Which I don’t think it was clear. I believe you said that in a previous video as well. I think in his discussions with Ridley this idea was told to him and it became canon in his head. Ridley loves to go back and add or change lore after the fact. I don’t know if he meant that all life in its entirety including the engineers come from the goo or that just the engineers + what they made do but it’s an interesting concept that I like much better than it being strictly an experiment they made. They obviously have reverence for it with the mural walls from Prometheus.
It is my belief that the race David destroyed was another seed race of the engineers like humans. Because these "children" were obedient and had no technological way of challenging the engineers these were an approved of race, making a good juxtaposition with humans. This race regards the engineers as deities, proven by the scene where they gathered and extended their arms towards the docking ship David was on, a return of the Gods moment. Which also makes for an interesting moment for David, he essentially annihilates a race of "Davids" that the engineers created, possibly why he wept during the act. This also aligns with the themes of creators and the purpose for their creations.
After rewatching Prometheus and Covenant, I figured that David was crying when he released the pathogen to the engineer people because it was tragic, but necessary to him in his grand scheme of conquering and creation. This is foreshadowed at the very beginning of Prometheus when David is watching the old film on the ship while everyone is in cryosleep and repeats the quote "The trick... is not minding that it hurts." And also when he states that death is necessary for new life (or something along those lines.) At least, that was my interpretation of the two movies combined, it just made sense to me. Poetic.
@@jayceez7747”In order to create, one must first destroy.”
@@jayceez7747David is a 5150.
I think this makes the most sense because the engineer kills David when he realizes he's a robot. They were going to destroy their seed colony "earth" because we created things that would lead to David like AI
fully agree with your theory here - in fact came here to say the same thing. Another human like race created by the engineers but not the engineers per se
Yes, this confirms the old theory that there are at least two different factions of the Engineers. I just want to know why they weren't on David's butt in a second when he terminated their whole crew? They must've had connections with other worlds, unless they purposely isolated themselves.
These videos are how I got into your channel
Sadly, I think Ridley himself wasn't capable of thinking up a coherent lore for the Engineers, let alone the whole Alien universe.
Correct
Prometheus actually had good lore threads. However, It is somewhat difficult to create lore and Mythos for world building when al the studio and the audience want is “more Xenomorph, more Xenomorph”
@@Wazszsa I also thought Prometheus was promising, stupid horror tropes aside. But you're right. It's hard to stick to one's gun in a world where information and feedback on your work are almost instantaneous.
I was subscribed to this channel for so long & completely lost track. Glad to be back. Absolutely love this content.
Awesome, Mr. H. - I'd say you have hit on exactly what Ridley Scott was designing into his Engineer mythos in Prometheus. I always wondered what it was about those "suits" that seemed to blend into the Engineers' biology, LOL. One has to wonder if the space jockey was actually an even more evolved (or black-goo modified) Engineer, incorporating into its biology similar devices to what the space-faring Engineers of LV-223 had their "navigation chairs" automatically grafting onto their bodies pre-flight.
This is a solid theory, all things considered. One would have to assume that David transmitted all of the work the engineers had done leading up to his present day. Knowing this, the Company would replicate the engineers work around advancing human evolution.
Plus, the engineer from the first Alien movie is incredibly bigger that those in Prometheus
Aliens dark descent just included a space jockey type of race grown out of walls. If you haven’t you should look up the titan xenomorph and the cutscenes because it’s all very geiger
@@Malice_doll titan xenomorph is very creepy, it's the one with no hind legs, right?
@@adamgallyot9063correct!!
Hopped up on that goo
Pretty much spot on theory I think.. Pisses me right off They make another film with more questions than answers.. should start calling the whole franchise Ridley's riddles 🤣
Even the tubes in the hibernation pod connected into the genetically altered engineer. He was "evolved" for space travel.
I think that's pretty sound because it's either two species or two factions. I do like the idea of two species. The ones David destroyed in Covenant were the ones that wouldn't harm us. While the ones at the end of Prometheus simply have a superiority complex and would gladly wipe us out.
The one at the beginning of Prometheus is probably from a different faction of the same species of Engineer seen at the end. They're physically near-identical but their motivations conflict.
You know, it makes sense why the military unit from Resurrection just cloned Ripley and the Xenomorphs instead of trying to find a planet with Xenos already on them. They were afraid of finding the engineers and the pathogen that they would use to wipe out the human race.
That's just my opinion, though.
Great video Nate! I always saw the engineers "flight suit" as being bio mechanical since it blends perfectly with their skin. Love the theory of two engineer types. Just hope that future installments continue to go in a great direction. We talked on twitter a few days ago about David not creating the Xenomorph as we know it, would love to see some videos on that topic since Romulus added the pathogen. Hope you heal up quickly!
In Covenant the Engineers looks like this because they couldn't make the more sophisticated make-up from Prometheus to many people. It was too expensive.
Classic old school Mr h reviews
It is good they made the Xenomorph the centerpiece of this franchise again and not David inferred as the creator. I think they are the universe's cleansing fire and what happens with species who want to become gods. It explains what happens to Kay's baby. And it is a never ending cycle we could be repeating.
I wish the prequel films had ignored the Xenomorph after the Deacon reveal. That was the only connection we really needed.
Imagine all of the interesting directions we could have gone in if the films weren’t pressured to shoe horn the xenomorphs into it.
Its pretty clear that Alien: Covenant (originally Paradise Lost) wasn’t originally meant to have xenomorphs.
I agree.. it would've been far more interesting if they explored the universe and bigger and different types of xenos instead of the drone type in most of them
I completely agree it’s sad when you think about what could’ve been.😢
They knew they wouldn't get nearly as much from the sales if they didn't attach the Alien name to it. 🤷♀️
Unfortunately the franchise is mired in branding to the casual fandom, in the way that Silent Hill as a franchise CANNOT escape Pyramid Head.
At the least, I don't know why we didn't get further comics exploring prequel, black goo, engineer mythos.
They tried with Raised By Wolves to not include the Xeno although there are similar creatures.
Those creatures are a throw back to a canned Alien script, written by the dude who wrote "Pitch Black".. A lot of these story lines that are more interesting were forgotten in favor of the Xenomorph.
Raised By Wolves wasn't successful and got canceled by the 2nd season before the story could lead anywhere. General audiences were not interested in that brand of sci fi and how it was done.
I have another theory mate, the Space Jockey used the black goo extracted from Xenomorphs to create the Engineers, and that’s what Alvarez might meant by saying they came from the black goo
This is my new Canon for the different engineers we see 👍
I find the engineers so interesting. It’s so sad they were pushed aside in Alien Covenant. Maybe They shouldn’t have said Prometheus was like a sequel to alien or something
They gave in to the snowflake fans who cried about "not enough xenomorph!" in Prometheus. The original sequel to Prometheus: Paradise Lost was so awesome sounding and it's a shame that we never got to see that.
The problem wasn’t that it was set in the Alien Universe. It was completely fine just being a spin off.
The problem was that they caved into the complaints of fans who thought it was going to be a traditional “Alien” film. Instead of just continuing in the direction it was meant to go in. This is one of the rare occasions where the fans were actually wrong at the time.
@@plasmaarmelund This. Combining the classic atmosphere of Alien 1 with some Engineer/Prometheus elements would make the movies so much better.
@@plasmaarmelundthat sounds like a red herring or some made up excuse by a clueless studio executive. The only gripes I heard were characters doing dumb annoying things. I wasn’t online back when Promethes released so maybe their was some backlash I didn’t see from 2012-2015. Still, Ridley could’ve cooked a better movie. John Logan sucks balls, imho , so if he was involved with a engineer focused movie then I suspect it still flops.
@@captaincrunch1707Ridley made my favorite movie of all time which is blade runner but other than alien and blackhawk down I honestly think the dude is ass. All his other movies don’t do it for me
Ridley Scott doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s very inconsistent
I just don't think your brain can comprehend that level of writing
@@ChrisCryer-ni2gp lol
...says the totally random spoiled internet brat who could only dream of accomplishing half of what Ridley has lol
Why are you guys butthurt about what the OP said? lol.
He's right. You can argue producers interfered. You can argue some part of the fans complained. Hence, RS had to change or twist the story to satisfy them, going awry from his original vision. But final product speaks for itself. RS was confused himself, didn't know what he was doing.
Personally, I liked the Prometheus route. You guys should know pure Alien fans didn't like it. We end up with Covenant because of it. It ended satisfying neither.
In a previous video of yours Fede Alvarez said something about engeneers being from the black goo or OF the black goo (something along those lines) maybe this is what he was referring to?
Mr H theory video = a good day!
They left an invitation to a military instilation which is a big plothole I thought of when I first saw the film.
Agreed. that part didn't add up.
Well we interpreted it has an invitation. Theres a possibility that it wasn’t.
I think it was a warning for us to stay away from
Maybe all the ancient cave paintings were the engineers saying, "If you don't knock it off, we are going to get our goo!"
Because they dont think these things like that, they think of them as "plot devices", people put too much into thinking for them, they simply though... we need to plot to move
forward so we need a "map", this is basic Hollywood writing trope. If you want create a universe you need some kind of "lore Bible" which they dont have.
I am glad they brought the engineers back in a bit of a twist in Romulus. That said, the black goo remains as mysterious as ever. In Covenant, it was clearly a weapon as when David released it, it caused almost the same reaction to the humanoids there as when the engineer drank the golden liquid in the Prometheus intro; they sort of disintegrated and fell apart. Romulus seems to be saying that the black goo is a product of the xenomorphs, produced or obtained from their bodies. The implication here is that the engineers have a history with the xenomorphs, as shown in the big head room murals in Prometheus. If that is the case, it would be interesting to find out more about how/when the engineers came across the xenomorphs and how the liquid is "processed" into a form that isn't a deadly weapon and horribly disfigures and kills lifeforms that come in contact with it.
Well thought through theory. Best one I've heard. The Engineers are such a compelling concept that I hope will get explored more in the future.
We about to get a ton of new Mr H alien videos like in the golden age.
I hope you feel better Mr H. I couldn't get a popcorn bucket from Regal Theaters during the premier weekend for Alien: Romulus sold out.
At some point i hope we get to see more engineer settlements.
On a side note, after rewatching Prometheus and Covenant, I figured that David was crying when he released the pathogen to the engineer people because it was tragic, but necessary to him in his grand scheme of conquering and creation. This is foreshadowed at the very beginning of Prometheus when David is watching the old film on the ship while everyone is in cryosleep and repeats the quote "The trick... is not minding that it hurts." And also when he states that death is necessary for new life (or something along those lines.) At least, that was my interpretation of the two movies combined, it just made sense to me. Poetic.
Even the eyes of the engineers on the planet have pupils and the engineers in the vault had eyes without pupils as dark as obsidian.
Mr. H please make an Alien timeline video. I see so many others channels making them but I trust you the most when it comes to Alien/Predator. Good luck trying to explain Prometheus and Covenant 😅
More of these types of videos mate !
3:52 Mr H but I guess if it wasn’t for his bio engineered suit, he wouldn’t have held off as long as he did during the scuffle with the trilobite! And it would’ve devoured him as soon as it grabbed him had he just been wearing the Gregorian robe his ancestors wore in the beginning of Prometheus.
I believe the engineers on Planet 4 was the DNA fork in their species. They can travel in space etc, however the transformative affects of the goo meant that one segment of society, by choice or policy needed to retain the original DNA thread, while another would be augmented by the goo. The fail safe was that if the augmented version couldn't procreate one or twenty generations down, then the original thread wasn't at risk. The Predators have also assimilated with the goo and other species to be battle hardened; at their core, they wouldn't risk all.. They've have an original thread, like the one in Prey, to allow normal genetic or evolutionary processes to persist.
The risks of the goo or mixing DNA is fraught with unknown hazards. The whole species is at risk. The Engineers and Predators who are scientifically mature, weighed the risk and created their own balance. Planet 4, one of many per the star map on board the ship, was one original DNA thread. Those that were augmented, would oversee the worlds and protect them; planet 4 in Covenant was well masked and not easy to detect. This was by design by Type 4 or 5, or greater Kardashev scale civilizations.
Love this format for you and of course being on the topic of Alien, it's right on point. Great work
Mr H going back to his routes . I like this. Good to see you reverting to type . No politics lovely 👊
Bro deserves to be minimum over 500k subs wtf is this I bin watching for a couple years now semi consistently whenever projects I love release and I want his opinions, and like I’m shocked he’s not passed the 500k mark. Everybody sub up deadass 💀💯
I would like to see a Friendly Engineer how they would interact with a human
Even tho Prometheus showed the Engineer getting into the "cockpit seat" in a "space suit" I still refuse to believe it is the same as the Space Jockey.
Alien Romulus did do a lot of good in correcting the Xeno and black goo relationship. Maybe the next good Alien film (if ever) will correct the Space Jockey vs Engineer "space suit" problem.
We Definitely need more Lore videos from you Mr.H like this 👍
That's exactly what I've been saying since Covenant, but since there's no one in the movies to explain it to us or even an archaeologist who can read the engineers' writing, we're left with our guesses. That's why the prequels are so good, since they show us the civilization that can synthesize the pathogen at levels that would take humanity centuries to complete.
Dear, Mr H I gotta say i am a fan of ur channel! & Quiet enjoy many of the reviews u do!.. i Adore Cinema & All it's Glorious Creations over rhe Decades..with exception of last i say 10-15yrs Cinema has gone dry for lack of Creative properties..70's & 80's for me was THE BEST ERA..(i was born in mid 70's) & properties like StarWars, Back 2future,Poltiergiest, & so on are incredible & ALIEN/ALEINS is a huge one for me!!.So this subject is very dear one this topic is very interesting! (U manage to point out something I'd miss watching Prometheus sevreral times & that is that biomechanical suite is Actually his body Woah that's deep!!?..(i dont know how miss that) maybe cauae i didn't watch any bts footage..BUT I MUST RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE ON THIS whole 2 Breeds !!?...(IF WHAT WE SEEN IN ROMULUS THEN THERE MUST BE 3 BREEDS!?) ..HOW DO U COUNT FOR LONG TAIL & THE EXTENDING TONGUE?!?..IF FROM WHAT U PIONT OUT THE 2BREEDS HAVE NON OF THOSE FEATURES!!..(& Saying this that is my problem with the ending of Romulus) it's twistin the whole black goo out of context!..(Why would the girl pregant baby be born with Engineers feature as if the goo i
Has a cloning effect or something?!? (That make No freak"n sense!) even the Engineer. /SpaceJockey was supposed was chestbursted by Xenomorph like creature in the 1st movie! So to me it makes No sense that an Engineer like creature would come from that girls birth!) Thus That should have been some variation of that or something Not a clone like Engineer Face!? & Qlso why wasnt the girl herself changed?!? Shaw gave birth to craeture Without direct contact form goo it was from her BF seed that happened..Ao how does sr directly inject with out some effects happing to jus her un born?!? It's just BS..& just a lack of thought on writer/writers & if u Really think about this whole black goo is going to debunk the Xenomorphs.. Cause accrodinf there while different type face f Alien now..that looks nothing like a Xenomorph & where do u fo from there?!? Are we expect more of hybrid Alien/Egineers species?!? Smmh pure Bullocks!!..(That movie had a Great start but that ending on sorry there's just No justifying & i think the Prometheus movie was an interesting & bold idea about the Prequel to Xenomorphs & i think the I'm want to continue on that the should make stand alone sequels much like Lucas Did wit StarWars..But to continue on the path of haphazardly throwing black goo in future films will be dangerous for the ALIEN FRANCHIAS IT IS!!..Let the Xenomorph be the fault createion for the goo but much like dinosaurs when recreated in Jurrassic Found away to continue to evlove ow that be that.
The DNA match doesn’t mean they created as, it means we share same evolutionary origin
When they first heard about this thing, it was "crew expendable". The next time they sent in marines - they were expendable too.
Exactly!! This is old school Mr H.. give the keys to Hellraiser to this gentleman and we can behold how Mr could guide a franchise
PLEASE Mr H, more videos like this. Political stuff is all fine and dandy but this is GOLD
I miss these type of Mr. H videos🎉 more Alien PLEASE 😲
This makes perfect sense.
Great content and thoughts Mr H. It is great to see that you are going back to the roots of this channel. 😊
Makes sense , because the time from the first sacrificial engineer that drank the black goo at the beginning of Prometheus ,that seeded life on earth. Was obviously hundreds of thousands of years ago / millions of years ago . Perhaps the engineers only seeded human life and not all other life on earth , not sure Prometheus gets into that or explains it that deep. If that was the case; if it was all life that originaly started from that sacrificed engineer, it would definitely be millions of years .
Either case , that vast amount of time would allow the engineers to evolve over millennia ( and some factions not ) . some factions evolved to eventually have technology integrated into their own bodies . Which is what we see in the engineer midway through Prometheus.
It’s never explained whether the engineers actually created the first neomorphs ( we see on the wall in the chamber in Prometheus ) or whether neomorphs already existed and the engineers discovered them and extracted the black goo from them allowing them too seed life on planets for millions of years perhaps . Also, when they want to destroy life on planets as they wanted to do with earth as explained in Prometheus , the black goo could be used for that purpose too; as David demonstrated its power of death on mass in covenant .
You are right in saying they may have been different types of engineers , the ones on the planet in the flash back scene in covenant, were obviously not as advanced faction of the engineer race. Then ontop of that we had sacrificial engineers that would go around seeding life on planets where they wanted; but at the same time there may have evolved war/ warrior space engineers as in Prometheus who’s job it would to to destroy life on planets when they see fit.
To be honest I’m hoping for David’s story to be finished and perhaps if could tie into back end of how Romulus finished .
I know a lot fans though want to see the back of the methos though that got introduced by Scott 🙈
Just think more xenomorphs , just gets more of the same and boring , but I wouldn’t mind the back story of how David had then created the xenomorph as we now it now and made it into the perfect killing machine , Basicly follow on from covenant , there’s a huge story there how he experimented to finally get the xenomorph to the one we have in Alien and onwards. Expansion of the universe is better and will have more longevity.
Though I know a lot people hate the idea and of the engineers 🙈can’t please everyone🙄
Though I except i’m in the minority 🤣🙈
Some old school Mr H type stuff. Love it 👍
The engineers in Covenant were just British people in their purest form
Love the theory/explanation content. Alway’s a pleasure to watch and explore.
Makes perfect sense that the engineers experimented with the pathogen to enhance themselves for deep space travel, and why the biomechanical nature of their appearance mirrors that of the Deacon/Xeno. Although I imagine the trial and error they went through to perfect what we saw in Prometheus must have been deadly and potentially why we saw the hologram playback of them running away. Having too much of the pathogen results in the mutation we saw with Fifield, while having a massive amount simply deconstructs the organism like the sacrificial engineer.
I assumed that the robed figures in that Prometheus deleted scene were older engineers, hence their withered appearance next to the more ripped sacrificial guy. However, the engineers on LV-223 definitely look like a more militaristic breed, especially when compared to the inhabitants of Paradise.
Wasn't it going to be that Jesus was an engineer though and the engineers hate human's because we killed him or something?
No, the idea was that Christ was a human or half engineer. He was then brought to Paradise as a young man and was taught and learnt their ways and then was sent back to Earth teach humanity. That's what I read.
@@RIVAL30388 I can just see religious people going nuts if that was in the film.
Removing the mystery was the biggest error... Ridley needed a voice over his shoulder whispering heed those warning bells of your hungry youth...
I agree…🫡
The only issue I have with this theory is one brief shot in the crossing short released for covenant. David sees the engineer suits in the ship. Other than that it's a fascinating theory
@@kellyredfearn537 the original derilict craft looks totally different the engineers designed according to the derilict but it was truly biomechanical unlike the engineers craft plus the original body is quite larger and was solo in its cockpit? i dont think that the derilict is even part of the engineers civilazation its a far more ancient alien species and civilazation.
@@DakotaCoughlin the only issue is Scott has stated that he retconned the space jockey into the engineer. The size difference and set design has always bugged me as well but I've kinda created the head cannon that the ship on the Prometheus planet was preserved due to being buried by the sandstorms. Lv426 seemed to have rockier terrain and the original ship was not only exposed to the elements on the planets surface but also contained xenos which could explain the more bio mechanical appearance. Obviously all of this amounts to Ridley Scotts stylistic choices but it's still fun to connect the dots. The only issue is the size of the space jockey as compared to the engineers but given the introduction of genetics into the series it could all be a part of the evolution of the engineers into humans. The space jockey created the Prometheus engineers by harvesting the mutagen from the xenos and were revered as gods. The Prometheus engineers which were smaller in size took the mutagen and used it for their own creations and so on and so forth right down to humans. Each generation stealing fire ( the black goo) from the generation before and paying the consequences.
I think this theory works quite well... Also can explain the appearance of the face/head of the creature at the end of Romulus...
I was have expecting the Mr. H theme music to come in at the credits at Alien Romulus
Your theory makes a lot of sense and I love it.😁
So there's 2 different breeds of Engineers Well for me I kinda like the original idea of the space jockey from the Dark Horse Comics they look like tall elephant looking aliens.
The entire idea is terrible and contradicts Alien really badly. Engineers are fine but making them the space jockey...Ridley is an idiot
@@chrispekel5709 The SJ in Alien could have been a unusual large engineer.
Holy shit, this makes total sense.
Very interesting video I agree with you on this the Engineers definitely using the black goo to evolve themselves
Incredible video. Thank you for doing this.
Prometheus Engineers: Military
Covenant Engineers: Civilians
The theory is sound but Ridley Scott changes his mind and perspective, like a lot. When you watch the prequels, you get the distinct feeling that the painted mural of the queen xenomorph has been around for a long time and see that the Engineers have been in space for a very long time but then Riddley Scott said in an interview that David created the xenomorphs and then in another interview he’s said that they were David’s version of the xenomorph. Then he said that the people David killed was the Engineer home world and then he said later that it was a different planet of Engineers or colonists. Ok, so which is it ? You see how this is a problem and this is exactly why I wasn’t happy with Alien Romulus bringing in the prequel information. I’m fine with the experiments but the black goo stuff and the Engineer half bread alien, really should’ve been saved for a different movie.
It’s fine that Weyland Yutani is doing experiments to enhance human physical attributes for space travel. There are factual accounts of astronauts reporting dis-orientation and muscle weakness from being in outer space as well as depression. Being outside of Earth’s atmosphere causes weakness in bone structure. It’s not good for humans to be outside of Earth in space.
I think the species that David destroyed is an offshoot of the Engineer people or colonist. I have doubts of them being the Engineer people themselves. We’ll never get a clear answer until Fox Studio lets Ridley Scott finish Alien Awakening.
As far as the derelict ship in Alien 1979 that was carrying all of those eggs. There could be a lot of reasons why they were moving them. They probably conducted an experiment on a planet to see what the xenomorphs were capable of and they picked up the eggs from the planet for storage and containment and annihilated the planet with the black goo to clean it up. They were probably moving the eggs to a planet with hostile organism and instead of using the black good to kill everything, they decided to use the eggs to seed xenomorphs on the planet to get rid of the problem then and there. Another reason, is there was an outbreak on their home world or colony and they were transporting the eggs to properly dispose of them and to not bring the xenomorphs back into existence.
In Aliens, Alien 3 and even Resurrection Ellen Ripley talks about the company using the xenomorphs for the bio-weapons division. They knew exactly what they were planning to do with this alien the moment they found out about it. You can re-watch the prequel movies and Romulus all you want but in a company’s nature who has the military in their corner and government, having control of a xenomorph and acid for blood would be a huge advantage to kill outside military resistance or company officials who are whistle blowers and even get people to do something they don’t want to do and you have a programmed xenomorph to go after a person or a group of people you don’t like. That would be more attainable and enjoyable than helping people cope in space and become better equipped for space travel. You already see in every movie that the company has no regard or respect for human rights or human life. It’s about the money, power and longevity of aging that they want. That’s the biggest reason you see and understand why the Engineers wanted to end human life and start over because there was no humanity or love for one another.
Interesting and thought provoking
I think the Covenant society was just another planet seeded by the Engineers and this one was in their favour and so they had been visiting it - hence the Mother Juggernaut and the welcoming reception the Juggernaut got. There was no sign of advanced biotech on the Covenant planet.There were the seeding Engineers we saw at the start of Prometheus and the Engineers in the Juggernaut - these simply being a military caste.
I think the sacrificial and spacefaring engineers are examples of genetically perfected/optimized engineers. The species at their highest genetic potential.
The one with the spacesuit could be genetically modified for space travel by the black goo. Or perhaps it's their standard military "armor" that's integrated into their body thus demonstrating their mastery of genetics and the black goo.
The engineers that got clapped by David I think were simply a planet variant of the engineer DNA. They seed life with an engineer that's "genetically perfect" and then the planet's own chemistry combines with that DNA and slightly modifies it. Thus creating a variant.
Maybe they seed life on different planets with their own DNA and allow evolution to do its thing with random mutations. Each planet can be viewed as a petri dish. Out of these planets, they take the best ones and implement it into their own genome and that's how they've genetically improved and perfected themselves. Essentially they're evolving simultaneously in parallel on many worlds. So what usually takes a species millions of years is done in a fraction of the time.
It's possible they view this process as pure, precious, and holy or something and that's why the engineer ripped off David's head and hit Peter Weyland with it. He was disgusted at Peter's attempt to initiate life through non-organic means and possibly his entitlement and belief that he is worthy of immortality. He sees himself "above" the natural process of life. And the engineer was pissed off at that level of extreme arrogance.
The problem with the theory is that the ancient engineers at the start of Prometheus have the appearance (fully black eyes) of the advanced engineer. I get that he has an explanation but it is much too convoluted to be good story telling. The series is a confusing mess. Let's be honest - Ridley just makes it up as he goes
I always assumed this all be true, but also that the Engineers in Covenant had technologically regressed over millennia as well as evolved to become more planet based, hence why they look like us. One could say it's a different planet and they are not engineers, which what many of us thought on film release except that every interview states it's the engineer homeworld.
Then you throw in the fact they are 1/3rd the size of the space jockey and have human proportions...urgggh
I hate mystery boxes when it's a box in a box. It's a sloppy way to make something interesting
Watch the beginning of Prometheus again. He doesn’t drink black goo. He drinks something highly acidic, and it seems to react to something (probably oxygen) when he opens the container. Perhaps he drinks alien blood? It’s definitely not the same black goo that is introduced later on in the movie.
i like this the old school feeling of how you make videos and fan theories good on you mate
Old school Mr H vibes, AVP brought me to this channel Long ago.
perhaps the o.g.engineers decided that they didnt need a species adapted to deep space and staged a sabotage on the planet from the movie Prometheus, and the biomechanical engineers, in turn, decided to improve themselves further, to the level of the space jockey from the movie Alien.
realizing that they are now competing species with each other. so the engineer from Prometheus spoke to Peter arrogantly asking him the question “why did he decide that he is worthy of eternal life” implying that he is not a perfect species, unlike him, then he realized that David is generally a robot and that our knowledge of dna(life) is very are meager, and those engineers who decided to sow such a life were generally mistaken, because this life (we) degraded (from an ideal engineer who drank black-gold liquid, we eventually turned into ordinary people)
How did Derelict in Planet 4 crash?? I always assumed Shaw maybe got into a fight with David about what he was doing and she caused crash.
So I feel like you’re right on the mark, with a caveat. I wouldn’t consider them separate species, maybe more social castes.
I think the LV223 variants fulfill a hybrid religious/scientific role in their society, specifically towards the ends of applying their religious philosophy of seeding life in the universe while also expanding their empire and developing weapons.
I love how this still leaves the question of whether the black goo is
A) something they found
or
B) microscopic, AI nanite swarm that they designed to restructure DNA
So when we look at the Engineers we can make one of 3 conclusions.
(1) The beings in Prometheus are our Engineers (although they likely Genetically Enhanced themselves in the past). And Planet 4 contained another Sub-Created Humanoid Race the Engineers had Created.
(2) The beings on Planet 4 are the Engineers and the Prometheus Engineers are Genetically Enhanced Super Engineers... they either Evolved themselves or were Created by Genetically Evolving a Fetus etc.
(3) The Engineers were like the Planet 4 guys who Evolved themselves to the Prometheus Guys using the Pathogen and due to Problems they turned their Backs on this Evolution and reverted back to a less Genetically Enhanced versions.
Getting some old school video here! Love it!
Maybe in the near future we might be able to see Xenomorph Prime :)
Kind of like the difference between the TOS Klingons and TNG Klingons. Though I realise that's a 'matter that is not discussed with outsiders' as Worf put it.
Finally the content from when I subscribed to this channel
I'm liking this theory mostly because it leads to an interesting and almost obvious conclusion to the franchise at a later date. Eventually humans will harness the technology for ourselves and become able to battle the Xenomorphs head on in a more fair fight, plus it will allow us to travel deep space. This could be possibly the best eventual ending for a franchise in history.
I hope alien earth does more with the engineer lore
This Guy should write a book
I'm only recently learning the whole lore thing with aliens.
When we saw the goo being extracted. Is it possible that the xenomorphs do exist naturally but the engineers ,or something else found them and managed to extract the goo?
I'm getting confused with the origins of the goo!