I watched this episode for the first time when I was 4 years old and loved it. After I came home from Afghanistan it took on a whole new meaning for me.
Being trained to survive/fight in a combat situation...THEN to return home and told by friends/family, people in town "JUST TO FORGET" the war its over...aka PTSD. Gives new meaning to WRONG that you serve your country/people then next thing you hear "we dont want/need to hear about it. You served, now your home, its over......No it doesnt work that way.
I hear you. I volunteer in town and when we were discussion what I thought S.O.P.'s. Only to be informed, in the civilian world, they were "Standard Operating Suggestions" or words to that effect. There is no un-training.
One of the best episodes of Star Trek... When Data tells him "Like you I have also been programmed" it was chilling. We know a whole lot more about PTSD now then we did in 1990 making Brent Spiners line more chilling as it's true.
I mean it was the thrust of the overarching goal of MKULTRA. Programming super soldiers has been given millions and then billions in defense money every year for over half a century at this point. This is not just a message about PTSD and veteran healthcare, but about the hubris and sociopathy of militancy and nationalism.
Militancy yes. Nationalism, absolutely not. Do not conflate the two like most in power want you to believe. Im a nationalist but I absolutely hate war. Most citizen nationalists are the same, no need for war just focus on building you country better for your people. @@kylezo
Klingons are kind of xenophobic. How many non-Klingons have we seen serving on their ships? To my knowledge, just Riker on that officer exchange program.
@@koshi6505 Klingon military seems to have a pretty loose structure. Seems like a collection of captains that range from wealthy nobility to pirate clans that coalesce when thier is a call to arms. So I'd imagine that how a Klingon captain crews his ship is entirely up to him. Aside from Riker pretty sure Jadzia Dax served on a Klingon ship during the dominion war. While the show doesn't directly state it I think it implies that curzon dax ran with a Klingon pirate crew for a while. Also Data was definitely offered a spot on a Klingon ship during an episode. While Klingons do seem to look down on other races they are also willing to look past thier prejudices when you're a proven warrior.
@@koshi6505 True, but some of these guys show their combat and tactical prowess, tell me you couldn't see this guy going into battle alongside Worf and Martok.
Except that wasn't what he wanted. He wanted to live in peace. As William T. Sherman once said, "I am tired and sick of war." In most societies, it is a rare person that actually enjoys war so much that they would volunteer to spend a lifetime fighting it.
I don't know how far that would go, he took down Worf pretty quick, be quite a few Klingons having their honor kicked up their asses and ripped through their foreheads if they tried to challenge him,which they would, he'd send them to Sto' vakor, or however it's spelled, in pieces!
Used to work at a VA Hospital. Met a lot of characters who came to get their blood drawn. Veteran care, like any healthcare system, can benefit from serious improvements. Unfortunately, the campus is also a government-run facility. Meaning no improvements are made unless it's necessary. I support our veterans. They went and continue to go above and beyond what is needed. When they return home though, they need help. They should receive better healthcare, an ear to listen to them, and time to properly adjust to civilian life again. It takes time, money, and effort. However, it shouldn't be swept aside as veterans are a high demographic in suicide numbers. Don't let them become the final casualties of the battles they fought.
My favorite one-time character on Star Trek. Honestly, like might be my favorite Trek character ever. Forthcoming like Picard, smart like Data, fights like Worf. They need an Angosian super soldier in the new Trek movies/series.
I am just waiting for the day when the "address" the veteran situation. What did Kissinger say? Something about dumb animals? As I see it, they want vets to lose their nut so they can justify any and all actions against the vet. It is not surprising that the hoops we have to jump through are designed to make you lose it. SISIP stealing from the vet is a good start. Peace to you and yours. :)
What I found particularly insidious and outrageous about this government wasn’t that they couldn’t provide Daynar and other soldiers with the care they needed; that’s often the harsh reality for veterans and expected to be part and parcel of the sacrifice they make serving their country, as harsh as that may sound. No, what was particularly gross to me was (a) this gov’t at the beginning preening about how they were free of war and believed in resolving conflicts through dialogue and (b) near the end, admitting one of the reasons they wouldn’t repatriate Daynar and his fellow soldiers was because they “might need them again one day”. When you juxtapose those two positions, you find a gov’t that’s morally bankrupt.
I absolutely loved this episode. This one and "Loud as a Whisper" with the deaf diplomat were fantastic to me because the drama wasn't going on because anything was blowing up or anyone was declaring war. They were about the unglamorous consequences of that, how to prevent a war or what happens when the war outside stops but the problems keep going inside people's heads. And since all the drama was going on inside people's heads, the most important person on the show suddenly became the psychologist: Deanna. When the drama is taking place inside of someone's skull, it's critical that someone on board knows how to get a grip on that.
The only thing most Americans care about, is their own comfort. As long as they have their bread and circus, they don't give a single thought about the men and women that give up everything to protect them
@@ulfricthorsson8347 the US military doesn’t “protect” anyone or anything other than the profits of US capitalists. it is the brutal blunt instrument of US imperialism, responsible for countless crimes against humanity in service not to the people of America but to American capital, and anyone who joins up is doing so in service to the cruellest empire in human history. so why the fuck should anyone give a shit about US veterans when there are a far larger number of deeply traumatised people in need of support who were traumatised by things other than that they feel bad about murdering ppl to open up countries to US exploitation
This is why i thank every Veteran, Police officer, fireman... anyone who puts their lift on the line for others... as well as what i have personally endured, for the benefit of many: you just don't know what turmoil they(and myself) have to deal with. Every moment of every day. Gratitude goes a very long way to at least feel that someone SEES you... knows the risk, maybe even is thinking of families and loved ones that these individuals would love to return home to, every day... or acknowledge the ones who are so broken, they cant form stable relationships. and wishes the level of care, comfort and healing for them(and myself, as i feel this is more the experience in life i have had) so at the very least, they can be at peace. Powerful scene from a great episode. Thank you for posting tHis.
Oh my God this is so sad I cannot believe how cruel some people are it's very appalling I'm very God for him how cruel can people be I cannot believe this.
This is a interesting subject. However I'd like to pose a counter-argument, standing on the objective of course, with the lack of information regarding a soldier's tour of duty, between what they were forced to do and what they actually choose to do can shed a different light on a sensitive subject. We like to perceive that every soldier that signs and goes to war are idealists that goes forth and sees nothing but true horror that rips their humanity and souls from them and leaves only the machine or broken side of them after they return home, which has been the actual case for many (Patrick Stewart's father for one and he was an interesting case). However there have also been cases of soldier's who have committed selfish and cruel acts towards their own fellow soldier's and/or civilians either because they followed orders, while disregarding any code of honour or not because there were orders to begin with but an interest in committing an atrocity for money or pleasure. How can we be sure which is which just by meeting them? My point: There is no black and white, there is no 2-sided line. The human condition is a 3-dimensional complex system which requires truthful information to allow us to find the measure of a soldier, or a person in general. Wearing a uniform does not determine a person as a saint or sinner, it is their actions that defines them.
while that can be the case, this story is really just there as a Sci Fi way of telling the story of many soldiers coming home from wars like Korea and Vietnam. A good chuck on the villainous types, the selfish and cruel, were either tackled while still at war, by the military or their own men, or later on through imprisonment. This really is talking about the soldiers who did no wrong except think they were doing good only to come back and be marched against, told that they were murderers, warmongers, and baby killers by idealistic idiots who only saw in black and white. Sure there are many sides to this situation but it was only really tackling one of them.
It's more of a commentary on how soldiers are often a disposable class of society. Many return home damaged, physically or mentally (or both) and society doesn't want to deal with them or puts a price on helping them. Ironic, given that they were sent with the intent to pay the ultimate price. Whether they volunteered or were conscripted matters little when they come home.
Irrelevant. this is more about leaders who made them soldiers and sent them into battle not being willing to give them proper care and support when they come back.
de code this walla walla state pen where my step dad was sent in 1984 j ust happon to be the army VA too pen on out side of town an orbiting gulag shhh no code in tv shows
Programming. It was the thrust of the overarching goal of MKULTRA. Programming super soldiers has been given millions and then billions in defense money every year for over half a century at this point. This is not just a message about PTSD and veteran healthcare, but about the hubris and sociopathy of militancy and nationalism.
I watched this episode for the first time when I was 4 years old and loved it. After I came home from Afghanistan it took on a whole new meaning for me.
Its basically their Rambo episode. What happens to a soldier after the war.
Same for me after oif
Same for me after Iraq.
Curtis
I saw this episode when I was 4 months old and it changed my life completely!
There's a lot of lessons in TNG.
Being trained to survive/fight in a combat situation...THEN to return home and told by friends/family, people in town "JUST TO FORGET" the war its over...aka PTSD. Gives new meaning to WRONG that you serve your country/people then next thing you hear "we dont want/need to hear about it. You served, now your home, its over......No it doesnt work that way.
I hear you. I volunteer in town and when we were discussion what I thought S.O.P.'s. Only to be informed, in the civilian world, they were "Standard Operating Suggestions" or words to that effect. There is no un-training.
No, it doesn't
One of the best episodes of Star Trek... When Data tells him "Like you I have also been programmed" it was chilling. We know a whole lot more about PTSD now then we did in 1990 making Brent Spiners line more chilling as it's true.
I mean it was the thrust of the overarching goal of MKULTRA. Programming super soldiers has been given millions and then billions in defense money every year for over half a century at this point. This is not just a message about PTSD and veteran healthcare, but about the hubris and sociopathy of militancy and nationalism.
Militancy yes. Nationalism, absolutely not. Do not conflate the two like most in power want you to believe. Im a nationalist but I absolutely hate war. Most citizen nationalists are the same, no need for war just focus on building you country better for your people. @@kylezo
This is one of my favorite episodes that has a powerful message.
Dude should have just joined the Klingon empire. Thier he would receive honor glory and respect. Probably a fair few songs of his exploits too.
Klingons are kind of xenophobic. How many non-Klingons have we seen serving on their ships? To my knowledge, just Riker on that officer exchange program.
@@koshi6505 Klingon military seems to have a pretty loose structure. Seems like a collection of captains that range from wealthy nobility to pirate clans that coalesce when thier is a call to arms. So I'd imagine that how a Klingon captain crews his ship is entirely up to him. Aside from Riker pretty sure Jadzia Dax served on a Klingon ship during the dominion war. While the show doesn't directly state it I think it implies that curzon dax ran with a Klingon pirate crew for a while. Also Data was definitely offered a spot on a Klingon ship during an episode. While Klingons do seem to look down on other races they are also willing to look past thier prejudices when you're a proven warrior.
@@koshi6505 True, but some of these guys show their combat and tactical prowess, tell me you couldn't see this guy going into battle alongside Worf and Martok.
Except that wasn't what he wanted. He wanted to live in peace. As William T. Sherman once said, "I am tired and sick of war." In most societies, it is a rare person that actually enjoys war so much that they would volunteer to spend a lifetime fighting it.
I don't know how far that would go, he took down Worf pretty quick, be quite a few Klingons having their honor kicked up their asses and ripped through their foreheads if they tried to challenge him,which they would, he'd send them to Sto' vakor, or however it's spelled, in pieces!
Used to work at a VA Hospital. Met a lot of characters who came to get their blood drawn. Veteran care, like any healthcare system, can benefit from serious improvements. Unfortunately, the campus is also a government-run facility. Meaning no improvements are made unless it's necessary. I support our veterans. They went and continue to go above and beyond what is needed. When they return home though, they need help. They should receive better healthcare, an ear to listen to them, and time to properly adjust to civilian life again. It takes time, money, and effort. However, it shouldn't be swept aside as veterans are a high demographic in suicide numbers. Don't let them become the final casualties of the battles they fought.
When he said he did everything. They asked him to do. I did everything they asked. I was a good soldier. It kills me to see myself in this character
My favorite one-time character on Star Trek. Honestly, like might be my favorite Trek character ever. Forthcoming like Picard, smart like Data, fights like Worf. They need an Angosian super soldier in the new Trek movies/series.
Have you seen Lower Decks?
@@andrewxu3602 I have not.
@@viktorxhelilaj3087 ua-cam.com/video/6a-JjCG9GAw/v-deo.html
@@andrewxu3602 I can't believe this exists.
Did anyone else notice his bubble butt?
Where’s Big Boss’ Outer Heaven when you need it?
I am just waiting for the day when the "address" the veteran situation. What did Kissinger say? Something about dumb animals? As I see it, they want vets to lose their nut so they can justify any and all actions against the vet. It is not surprising that the hoops we have to jump through are designed to make you lose it. SISIP stealing from the vet is a good start. Peace to you and yours. :)
I know....sickening. Just look at the vet today. My home unit has changed so much. Peace to you and yours. :)
What I found particularly insidious and outrageous about this government wasn’t that they couldn’t provide Daynar and other soldiers with the care they needed; that’s often the harsh reality for veterans and expected to be part and parcel of the sacrifice they make serving their country, as harsh as that may sound.
No, what was particularly gross to me was (a) this gov’t at the beginning preening about how they were free of war and believed in resolving conflicts through dialogue and (b) near the end, admitting one of the reasons they wouldn’t repatriate Daynar and his fellow soldiers was because they “might need them again one day”. When you juxtapose those two positions, you find a gov’t that’s morally bankrupt.
Thank you. The message is clear. Peace to you and yours. :)
Funny how the super nerds got this even back in 1990... Yay War!
Sounds like the entire US military leaving their soldiers to cope with PTSD alone.
lol "veteran care". I'm with you vets on this one.
I absolutely loved this episode. This one and "Loud as a Whisper" with the deaf diplomat were fantastic to me because the drama wasn't going on because anything was blowing up or anyone was declaring war. They were about the unglamorous consequences of that, how to prevent a war or what happens when the war outside stops but the problems keep going inside people's heads. And since all the drama was going on inside people's heads, the most important person on the show suddenly became the psychologist: Deanna. When the drama is taking place inside of someone's skull, it's critical that someone on board knows how to get a grip on that.
Alles gesagt in nicht einmal 2 Minuten. Great
All he wanted was to start practicing law again as a company shyster.
It doesn't matter what happens to Veterans as long as the malls are open.
The only thing most Americans care about, is their own comfort. As long as they have their bread and circus, they don't give a single thought about the men and women that give up everything to protect them
@@ulfricthorsson8347 the US military doesn’t “protect” anyone or anything other than the profits of US capitalists. it is the brutal blunt instrument of US imperialism, responsible for countless crimes against humanity in service not to the people of America but to American capital, and anyone who joins up is doing so in service to the cruellest empire in human history. so why the fuck should anyone give a shit about US veterans when there are a far larger number of deeply traumatised people in need of support who were traumatised by things other than that they feel bad about murdering ppl to open up countries to US exploitation
Quite pessimistic view
You can't just turn it off, killings what I do!
I. AM. IRON. MAN.
Wait till they hear about the unsc spartan program.
This is why i thank every Veteran, Police officer, fireman... anyone who puts their lift on the line for others... as well as what i have personally endured, for the benefit of many: you just don't know what turmoil they(and myself) have to deal with.
Every moment of every day.
Gratitude goes a very long way to at least feel that someone SEES you... knows the risk, maybe even is thinking of families and loved ones that these individuals would love to return home to, every day...
or acknowledge the ones who are so broken, they cant form stable relationships. and wishes the level of care, comfort and healing for them(and myself, as i feel this is more the experience in life i have had) so at the very least, they can be at peace.
Powerful scene from a great episode. Thank you for posting tHis.
Oh my God this is so sad I cannot believe how cruel some people are it's very appalling I'm very God for him how cruel can people be I cannot believe this.
Rambo
This is a interesting subject. However I'd like to pose a counter-argument, standing on the objective of course, with the lack of information regarding a soldier's tour of duty, between what they were forced to do and what they actually choose to do can shed a different light on a sensitive subject. We like to perceive that every soldier that signs and goes to war are idealists that goes forth and sees nothing but true horror that rips their humanity and souls from them and leaves only the machine or broken side of them after they return home, which has been the actual case for many (Patrick Stewart's father for one and he was an interesting case). However there have also been cases of soldier's who have committed selfish and cruel acts towards their own fellow soldier's and/or civilians either because they followed orders, while disregarding any code of honour or not because there were orders to begin with but an interest in committing an atrocity for money or pleasure. How can we be sure which is which just by meeting them?
My point: There is no black and white, there is no 2-sided line. The human condition is a 3-dimensional complex system which requires truthful information to allow us to find the measure of a soldier, or a person in general. Wearing a uniform does not determine a person as a saint or sinner, it is their actions that defines them.
while that can be the case, this story is really just there as a Sci Fi way of telling the story of many soldiers coming home from wars like Korea and Vietnam. A good chuck on the villainous types, the selfish and cruel, were either tackled while still at war, by the military or their own men, or later on through imprisonment. This really is talking about the soldiers who did no wrong except think they were doing good only to come back and be marched against, told that they were murderers, warmongers, and baby killers by idealistic idiots who only saw in black and white. Sure there are many sides to this situation but it was only really tackling one of them.
It's more of a commentary on how soldiers are often a disposable class of society. Many return home damaged, physically or mentally (or both) and society doesn't want to deal with them or puts a price on helping them. Ironic, given that they were sent with the intent to pay the ultimate price. Whether they volunteered or were conscripted matters little when they come home.
Irrelevant. this is more about leaders who made them soldiers and sent them into battle not being willing to give them proper care and support when they come back.
@@tenjenk They were hoping they didn't come back.
de code this walla walla state pen where my step dad was sent in 1984 j ust happon to be the army VA too pen on out side of town an orbiting gulag shhh no code in tv shows
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MICHAEL N'A AUCUN POUVOIR ? SAIS MOI QUI PARDONNE ET QUI RÉTRIBUTION ICITE.ICI MICHEL
Roga Danar. YUM!!!!!
Best butt ever
I remember watching this episode when I was 12. This guy contributed to me realizing I was gay. The guy had an awesome butt.
Programming. It was the thrust of the overarching goal of MKULTRA. Programming super soldiers has been given millions and then billions in defense money every year for over half a century at this point. This is not just a message about PTSD and veteran healthcare, but about the hubris and sociopathy of militancy and nationalism.
Yes, I agree.
nationalism isn't the problem glowie dumbass.
It would have been fine if govts weren't funneling resources into nazi crap like the vile welfare state instead of taking care of their soldiers.
Damn Star Trek and their political agenda! ;-)
Trump’s fault !!! Clearly trumps fault
get lost