I get so many amazing ideas from what I hear here of involving Hunters, Vampires, Mages, Wraith for a Werewolf game. Allies, conspiracies, uneasy alliances, war. That is what I see.
I think it really says something that the closest thing to the Get of Fenris, the Red Talons and the Silver Fangs in Werewolf: The Forsake are all villainous groups. That's some major bad blood those groups must have built up in the fanbase.
The fanbase likes those 3 though, only the Red Talons really had any controversy. White Wolf isn't the White Wolf of 1990's - 2000's. 20th Anniversary was the last hurrah of the Old Guard.
Would love to play a boy who was born on a reservation and due to his upbringing and quiet family life is a kinda chilled out Wendigo, no pun intended.
I had almost all the books of World of Darkenes. Sadly, they were all stolen. If I ever find the thief:....anyway thank you Mr.Welch this brought me back to good times.
Project Twilight was the best version of the old WW games, where you played as the agents trying to uncover the goings on in the World of Darkness. Had the most potential for fun storytelling.
Our stable group of players played the WOD games pretty much in order of release. We went from Vampire, where you start off weak enough to be taken out by a gang banger with a Mac-10, to Werewolf where you could stomp an extra mudhole in everything. We immediately realized the two systems were not balanced and not compatible, but still...we tried. We had a real problem with the Ur plot and game setup as the scripted bad guys and conflicts bored us because we weren't raised by feral leftists and marxist anarchists.
I've thought about trying a game of Werewolf, but Kinfolk only. It seems like it would be a lot easier to get people to work together. I'd said that if I did I'd allow Lupine if they're Bone Gnawers passing as dogs, and I'd allow a BSD only if we agreed the Kinfolk had gone No Contact with their family, and were heavily medicated to keep them stable.
I played in a Rather good game of Werewolf. We were all the sons of the same werewolf who were raised by our mothers to hunt down and drag the Him back to the clan for being an unloyal asshole decided cause 5 of us to born. It was hilarious as we were a well oiled killing machine working together. Also I might we all mulits (forgot how to spell it, offspring of two werewolf in cronus form.) It was hilarious as we weren't smart, and required the help our older not mentally screwed over step brother who was small and squishy. It was great.
After finishing my CPA exam I've finally gotten time to sit down and actually play some WoD games, and I found a loophole in the rules big enough to drive a truck through. I'm amazed that not only did the Werewolf STs allow it, a Mage ST said it was fine to use it as part of my Mage's backstory: Unlike the Masquerade, the Veil explicitly only covers not revealing the existence of Werewolves to humans. So, if you're a Silent Strider who deals with Ghosts you just have to claim you're a Medium and you can literally drag humans into the Dark Umbra to meet their dead relatives as long as you aren't furry when you do it. Garou don't care about humans finding out about ghosts.
The garou are just big furry narcissists and never considered it might cause issues. And tbf, the veil not being lifted probably refers as much to the curse and the effects of delirium surrounding them more than it is a prescriptive law, as far as i've interpreted it. The garou would really have no problem ruling over humanity. It's the model of how their tribes function after all. There's an inherent caste system which favors garou over kinfolk, except kinfolk are basically just breeding stock for thr garou.
Not only did they take their sweet time forming Voltron, they then delayed using the Blazing Sword which usually defeated the enemy in one strike. Even as a kid, it was a WTF for me. Ultraman had a similar problem. Lots of chop-sockey, even when when firing 2 energy rings promptly tri-sected the monster of the week...
Werewolves have to be careful because their form drives normal humans crazy and sends up a flare to other groups like mages. And since the Technocracy considers werewolves to be reality deviants to be purged, attracting the attention of reality bending people is a bad thing.
I don't know, Exalted seemed to be even more combat focused. Or maybe it's just more over the top. After all, where else can you literally punch a guy into next week and have him languish in Hell until time catches up to him. Or punch someone into a duck.
in Exalted you can talk someone into believing he doesn't exist. He will then cease to exist I'd say it balances combat, social, and mental play equally well, in that all three can be used to remake the world in your own image
Exalted might just be their most batshit product line. Every single trick you could possibly think off in Wuxia is its own power. There are not only skill trees of powers, but entire skill _forests_ Plus every single type of Exalted needs its own special rules and its own special selection of skill forests. I think I'll go with Godbound or Legend of the Wulin instead, depending on whether I want to go all demi-god or Wuxia.
Great Vid! New favorite! I would have filled half the slides with pics of Wynona chain smoking, but that's just me. I actually love the Technocracy as cross over antagonists because of how that emphasizes their rationalism and it's appeal. Sure you feel like life amid the glare of convenient stores and screens is getting a bit repetitive, but the alternative is a giant worm with infinite, labyrinthine and Non-Euclidian equations that all equal covering the world in slime so they can roll around in it and purr.
Another White Wolf game that really relied on having the right kind of group/players would absolutely have to be Wraith: The Oblivion. The game itself was depressing to say the least and even if your group got past that the Shadow mechanic would frequently get abused. It was a nightmare for me to find a group for, even today people are more likely to want either the new stuff or some edition of the main three lines over Wraith.
When it comes to the Changing breeds, Were-Bear, Were-Snake, Were-Cat Etc, the one that stands out to me is the Rokea. I want to know what kind of Naked Lunch, Donnie Darko, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas amount of drugs and or sleep deprivation caused them to think that a whole species of immortal telepathic were-sharks was a brilliant idea. At least with the other breeds they had a purpose, or at least tried to, I mean even the Mokolé had some Gaia given purpose of being her memory (Though I'm not sure why you need to turn into a mini Godzilla to remember things when theoretically a quasi intelligent rock would do the same job) Wherein the Rokea only had the singular purpose of "Living"...... That's it...their entire job was to keep on living, not hunt the seaborne enemies of Gaia, not keep the deep ocean from forming umbral rifts that could swallow the world, not even wage unending war against the squid people of the depths. I think it's safe to say we've all been there when it comes to those 2-3 AM "Brilliant Ideas" where at the time it makes sense in your sleep deprived chemically addled consciousness, but the next morning when you look over the notes and go: "This concept of using Jello and granola to make cheap affordable housing for inner cities isn't going to work", but this time they got theirs published and made canon.
With the issues already going against Werewolf, it seemed to me that the people who would most want to play it were also the people who most wanted to play dwarves in D&D. Short, balding, bearded dudes that were grumpy, antisocial, and wanted the power fantasy.
Not all power fantasies are the same. The stereotype I mentioned wants to be strong, invincible, and so good at what they do they don't have to play nice or have social skills to be needed by others.
I just like to point out that unless you're talking about a Methuselah who are the oldest max level vampires in the masquerade or an antediluvian who are basically vampire gods and neither one of them waking up with me effectively the end of the world as we know it. Vampires in the world of darkness are not beating a werewolf in hand-to-hand combat one on one. They're not beating a werewolf five on one. I intentionally created an incredibly powerful sheriff and an almost unkillable Prince of the City for my vampire the masquerade tabletop game. One newbie werewolf nearly killed both of them. And these bastards were designed so that the entire rest of the game couldn't kill them unless they all work together.
For our GURPS Infinite Weirdos (Season II), one of the players wanted to play a White-Wolf-style Werewolf. That character is a blast. They're a Galliard, so they're trying to remember their adventure. But, when it's time, they shift and go Hulk smash.
So out of curiosity (and because Mr Welch doesn’t identify them) I’m wondering where a few of the images are from. Namely the ones for when he was talking about the Children of Gaia, the Silver Fangs, the Wendigo, and the ones at 10:32 and 13:38.
You left out an important factoid about the red talons. Due to the fact that they haven't bread with people in a llllllooooonnmnggggggg time, their homid form is not human, but in fact cro magnon. Try blending into the suburbs as one of those. I dare you.
I only found Werewolves interesting in their Time of Judgement book. Honestly, that collection of books had some of the best lore and world-building (and destroying) that I've seen outside of Exalted. I really enjoyed the Exalted campaign setting all around, though Abyssals were kinda boring, although the Deathlords (if I remember the title correctly) were great. The Exalted Underworld was actually a great setting, just that had the most uninteresting Exalted (to me, anyways).
Never get much into W:tA, but I love W:tF. Same with Changeling, the CoW [or nWoD, or whatever it is called now] version was much more easier to actual play, without having the right people at the right table.
Great summary. One thing I would say - the TV show, Kindred the Embraced, which I recently revisited, was far, faaaar better than I'd been led to believe. Only the pilot focuses on the mortals (and suffers for it, to be fair). The rest of the show wisely focuses on the Vampire Prince, Julian Luna, who is a mafia style Ventrue who oozes charisma, as played by the late, great Mark Frankel. The show died due to crappy scheduling, and ultimately, the death of Frankel in a motorcycle accident. I heartily recommend it to anyone who dug shows like True South and 90s Cop procedurals. It's far more in line with that than 90210.
I am so glad that the tribes in Werewolf:The Forsaken were made to work together by giving them each a niche they specialize in hunting. The tribes in Apocalypse seem like they require serious work on the part of the storyteller and player to make them functional members of the pack. Because as it portrayed, it seems like the only way a pack not made of only one tribe would get things done is if something happens that is major that they stop attacking each other for five minutes to attack it.
The games just never really clicked with me. They have this overly pretentious and/or edgy tone to them, it can sometimes be hard to figure out where the fluffy ends and the crunch starts, and I'd say it's too crunchy and bloated to be a tue storytelling game, especially with other systems like Fate around. Plus they love this thing where all the factions don't get along with each other and are full of douchebags.
"Egyptian Werewolf Necromancer" is possibly the best thing I'd never heard of. And it makes sense, because dogs like to fetch bones!
I get so many amazing ideas from what I hear here of involving Hunters, Vampires, Mages, Wraith for a Werewolf game.
Allies, conspiracies, uneasy alliances, war. That is what I see.
I like the summary of this game as "H.P.Lovecraft's Captain Planet"
Ah, Furry the Furying. Good, but mostly weird, times.
Red Talons are easy to play as a misanthrope. Just be smart. Work together and take notes on who to cull later with clanmates.
I think it really says something that the closest thing to the Get of Fenris, the Red Talons and the Silver Fangs in Werewolf: The Forsake are all villainous groups. That's some major bad blood those groups must have built up in the fanbase.
The fanbase doesn't write the books, though.
The fanbase likes those 3 though, only the Red Talons really had any controversy. White Wolf isn't the White Wolf of 1990's - 2000's. 20th Anniversary was the last hurrah of the Old Guard.
Would love to play a boy who was born on a reservation and due to his upbringing and quiet family life is a kinda chilled out Wendigo, no pun intended.
I had almost all the books of World of Darkenes. Sadly, they were all stolen. If I ever find the thief:....anyway thank you Mr.Welch this brought me back to good times.
I can tell you right now that there are very few things as dangerous as a glass rocker with a large budget.
It was my friends differing approaches to this game that made us realize who was a furry
Lol oh no!
Project Twilight was the best version of the old WW games, where you played as the agents trying to uncover the goings on in the World of Darkness. Had the most potential for fun storytelling.
I fell in love with the werewolf lore and really want to get into the game
Our stable group of players played the WOD games pretty much in order of release. We went from Vampire, where you start off weak enough to be taken out by a gang banger with a Mac-10, to Werewolf where you could stomp an extra mudhole in everything. We immediately realized the two systems were not balanced and not compatible, but still...we tried.
We had a real problem with the Ur plot and game setup as the scripted bad guys and conflicts bored us because we weren't raised by feral leftists and marxist anarchists.
I've thought about trying a game of Werewolf, but Kinfolk only. It seems like it would be a lot easier to get people to work together.
I'd said that if I did I'd allow Lupine if they're Bone Gnawers passing as dogs, and I'd allow a BSD only if we agreed the Kinfolk had gone No Contact with their family, and were heavily medicated to keep them stable.
I played in a Rather good game of Werewolf. We were all the sons of the same werewolf who were raised by our mothers to hunt down and drag the Him back to the clan for being an unloyal asshole decided cause 5 of us to born. It was hilarious as we were a well oiled killing machine working together. Also I might we all mulits (forgot how to spell it, offspring of two werewolf in cronus form.) It was hilarious as we weren't smart, and required the help our older not mentally screwed over step brother who was small and squishy. It was great.
Love playing WtA, especially Fenrir
After finishing my CPA exam I've finally gotten time to sit down and actually play some WoD games, and I found a loophole in the rules big enough to drive a truck through. I'm amazed that not only did the Werewolf STs allow it, a Mage ST said it was fine to use it as part of my Mage's backstory:
Unlike the Masquerade, the Veil explicitly only covers not revealing the existence of Werewolves to humans. So, if you're a Silent Strider who deals with Ghosts you just have to claim you're a Medium and you can literally drag humans into the Dark Umbra to meet their dead relatives as long as you aren't furry when you do it. Garou don't care about humans finding out about ghosts.
The garou are just big furry narcissists and never considered it might cause issues. And tbf, the veil not being lifted probably refers as much to the curse and the effects of delirium surrounding them more than it is a prescriptive law, as far as i've interpreted it. The garou would really have no problem ruling over humanity. It's the model of how their tribes function after all. There's an inherent caste system which favors garou over kinfolk, except kinfolk are basically just breeding stock for thr garou.
Plus, their numbers are so fucked, any new blood in their eternal war against the wyrm is probably welcome.
I really do enjoy how you explain table top game's you always so Frank yet passionate about it really puts me in a good mood Thank you.
Not only did they take their sweet time forming Voltron, they then delayed using the Blazing Sword which usually defeated the enemy in one strike. Even as a kid, it was a WTF for me.
Ultraman had a similar problem. Lots of chop-sockey, even when when firing 2 energy rings promptly tri-sected the monster of the week...
They have to build up meter before they can pull off their super move.
Lol. This is hilarious. Great video. You did the same good nacon did calling the tribes clans, but that's an easy one to flub.
Werewolves have to be careful because their form drives normal humans crazy and sends up a flare to other groups like mages. And since the Technocracy considers werewolves to be reality deviants to be purged, attracting the attention of reality bending people is a bad thing.
I don't know, Exalted seemed to be even more combat focused. Or maybe it's just more over the top. After all, where else can you literally punch a guy into next week and have him languish in Hell until time catches up to him. Or punch someone into a duck.
in Exalted you can talk someone into believing he doesn't exist. He will then cease to exist
I'd say it balances combat, social, and mental play equally well, in that all three can be used to remake the world in your own image
Exalted might just be their most batshit product line.
Every single trick you could possibly think off in Wuxia is its own power. There are not only skill trees of powers, but entire skill _forests_
Plus every single type of Exalted needs its own special rules and its own special selection of skill forests.
I think I'll go with Godbound or Legend of the Wulin instead, depending on whether I want to go all demi-god or Wuxia.
Dont forget my favorite Omar Sharif appearance, Top Secret!
Great Vid! New favorite! I would have filled half the slides with pics of Wynona chain smoking, but that's just me. I actually love the Technocracy as cross over antagonists because of how that emphasizes their rationalism and it's appeal. Sure you feel like life amid the glare of convenient stores and screens is getting a bit repetitive, but the alternative is a giant worm with infinite, labyrinthine and Non-Euclidian equations that all equal covering the world in slime so they can roll around in it and purr.
You can tell the world of Darkness takes itself less seriously in the 90s. When ENDRON sounds too over the top for a Captain Planet villain.
I think werewolves are cute and fluffy!
Wolfgirls are second only to catgirls.
@@EvilDoresh Ratgirls are better than both, though.
@@RoninCatholic *google-fu*
Ah, I see you are making a very strong argument here.
Fur-st. Thanks for doing these, good sir.
Another great video! And yes it always was fun playing a 9ft tall slathering death Beast.
Is a pug based werewolf an option?
Another White Wolf game that really relied on having the right kind of group/players would absolutely have to be Wraith: The Oblivion. The game itself was depressing to say the least and even if your group got past that the Shadow mechanic would frequently get abused. It was a nightmare for me to find a group for, even today people are more likely to want either the new stuff or some edition of the main three lines over Wraith.
I feel you. I love the material and what could be done with it, but never got a group together for it.
When it comes to the Changing breeds, Were-Bear, Were-Snake, Were-Cat Etc, the one that stands out to me is the Rokea. I want to know what kind of Naked Lunch, Donnie Darko, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas amount of drugs and or sleep deprivation caused them to think that a whole species of immortal telepathic were-sharks was a brilliant idea.
At least with the other breeds they had a purpose, or at least tried to, I mean even the Mokolé had some Gaia given purpose of being her memory (Though I'm not sure why you need to turn into a mini Godzilla to remember things when theoretically a quasi intelligent rock would do the same job) Wherein the Rokea only had the singular purpose of "Living"......
That's it...their entire job was to keep on living, not hunt the seaborne enemies of Gaia, not keep the deep ocean from forming umbral rifts that could swallow the world, not even wage unending war against the squid people of the depths.
I think it's safe to say we've all been there when it comes to those 2-3 AM "Brilliant Ideas" where at the time it makes sense in your sleep deprived chemically addled consciousness, but the next morning when you look over the notes and go: "This concept of using Jello and granola to make cheap affordable housing for inner cities isn't going to work", but this time they got theirs published and made canon.
With the issues already going against Werewolf, it seemed to me that the people who would most want to play it were also the people who most wanted to play dwarves in D&D. Short, balding, bearded dudes that were grumpy, antisocial, and wanted the power fantasy.
D&D players who want a power fantasy pick a spellcasting class.
Not all power fantasies are the same. The stereotype I mentioned wants to be strong, invincible, and so good at what they do they don't have to play nice or have social skills to be needed by others.
I just like to point out that unless you're talking about a Methuselah who are the oldest max level vampires in the masquerade or an antediluvian who are basically vampire gods and neither one of them waking up with me effectively the end of the world as we know it. Vampires in the world of darkness are not beating a werewolf in hand-to-hand combat one on one. They're not beating a werewolf five on one. I intentionally created an incredibly powerful sheriff and an almost unkillable Prince of the City for my vampire the masquerade tabletop game. One newbie werewolf nearly killed both of them. And these bastards were designed so that the entire rest of the game couldn't kill them unless they all work together.
What is all this dropping a video at 11PM?
Because I do them after I get home from work and unfortunately I have DSL so uploading is a pain
@@Mr_Welch Ouch! I'll never complain about my hours again.
For our GURPS Infinite Weirdos (Season II), one of the players wanted to play a White-Wolf-style Werewolf. That character is a blast. They're a Galliard, so they're trying to remember their adventure. But, when it's time, they shift and go Hulk smash.
I am Werewolf: The Mage
Nice
Funnily enough, my first Werewolf character was an IRA operative. Good times.
So out of curiosity (and because Mr Welch doesn’t identify them) I’m wondering where a few of the images are from. Namely the ones for when he was talking about the Children of Gaia, the Silver Fangs, the Wendigo, and the ones at 10:32 and 13:38.
The howling 2
A company of wolves
The howling 1
Nightbreed
Howl
You didn't mention the were sharks.
You left out an important factoid about the red talons. Due to the fact that they haven't bread with people in a llllllooooonnmnggggggg time, their homid form is not human, but in fact cro magnon. Try blending into the suburbs as one of those. I dare you.
I only found Werewolves interesting in their Time of Judgement book. Honestly, that collection of books had some of the best lore and world-building (and destroying) that I've seen outside of Exalted. I really enjoyed the Exalted campaign setting all around, though Abyssals were kinda boring, although the Deathlords (if I remember the title correctly) were great. The Exalted Underworld was actually a great setting, just that had the most uninteresting Exalted (to me, anyways).
What movie or series is the still from 7:22 taken from?
The Company of Wolves (1984).
@@blackraptor311 Thanks!
@@MrNetWraith No problem.
Never get much into W:tA, but I love W:tF. Same with Changeling, the CoW [or nWoD, or whatever it is called now] version was much more easier to actual play, without having the right people at the right table.
Great summary. One thing I would say - the TV show, Kindred the Embraced, which I recently revisited, was far, faaaar better than I'd been led to believe. Only the pilot focuses on the mortals (and suffers for it, to be fair). The rest of the show wisely focuses on the Vampire Prince, Julian Luna, who is a mafia style Ventrue who oozes charisma, as played by the late, great Mark Frankel. The show died due to crappy scheduling, and ultimately, the death of Frankel in a motorcycle accident. I heartily recommend it to anyone who dug shows like True South and 90s Cop procedurals. It's far more in line with that than 90210.
Excellent video as always!
I am so glad that the tribes in Werewolf:The Forsaken were made to work together by giving them each a niche they specialize in hunting. The tribes in Apocalypse seem like they require serious work on the part of the storyteller and player to make them functional members of the pack. Because as it portrayed, it seems like the only way a pack not made of only one tribe would get things done is if something happens that is major that they stop attacking each other for five minutes to attack it.
Furry Combat Simulator hsuahsauhsauhsauhsauhsua
White Wolf gave us incomprehensible rules disguised as “storytelling”, splat books, LARPing and the Twilight series. I hate White Wolf.
The games just never really clicked with me. They have this overly pretentious and/or edgy tone to them, it can sometimes be hard to figure out where the fluffy ends and the crunch starts, and I'd say it's too crunchy and bloated to be a tue storytelling game, especially with other systems like Fate around.
Plus they love this thing where all the factions don't get along with each other and are full of douchebags.
was hoping for an in-depth look at the Fera, but this was good. Maybe another time