7 years later and here I am with who knows how many play throughs sitting on the toilet trying to decide whether I should join the stormcloaks or the imperials
AdrenaLine _ its not a hard decision. Its the question, do you want pointless fights, murder and social unrest. Join the empire, cuz even with ulfrics dead the issues why the empire sucked won’t stop so people keep fight for sovereignty. Tulius gives you the order to kill every stormcloaks in there camps after ulfrics dead, but all of them are nord warriors and by genociding them you help the elves, cuz the empire wasn’t strong enough to win against the elves in the first great war, so they will loose the second one too.
Don’t listen to Floyd Lechner , he doesn’t seem to understand that one province alone cannot defeat the Thalmor and there’s no guarantee that Skyrim could forge an alliance with the Redguards. A united empire has the best chance of defeating the Thalmor .
Everything is already controlled by the deep state elites in America and total domination has been achieved. Politics do nothing but harm. But does the government have a technology to read people's minds yet? 🤔 As for me, ill just keep supporting the Empire! Empire is good for Skyrim and Tamriel
Doesn't matter who is president, the one who wins will always blame the Russians for intervening and supporting the other part. I mean, what does the Russians gain from having Trump as the president of the USA. Seriously? Barack Obama will probably be the last good president USA will ever have. The rest will only blame Russia and China for supporting the other party.
@Liam Dysart I understand but i thought ulfric is racist cuz in windhelm all the dark elves are living in the cramped space in the town not even cared for and in windhelm the first time you go in there you see some ulfric supporters bullying a dark elf just because and (i forgot his name but i think you know who) this guy in windhelm said that any argonian village or kajit caravan attacked ulfric doesn't even care even if the war is (technically) over
You follow the Stormcloaks at the start because the Imperials tried to execute you. You follow Hadvar the Imperial soldier because you liked the empathy Hadvar had for the player.
The beginning was a big reason why I sided with stormcloaks. Hadvar only said mere words and didn't stick up for someone that wasn't even supposed to be executed, letting an innocent life die is despicable. I found Ralof more empathetic as we were in the same boat (or wagon). I did think Hadvar was a good man and I might have even joined the imperials at first if he had enough empathy to do what was right. But now I'm just watching videos to see if there is an answer to which side is just.
hadvar was surroudned by imperial soldiers and attempting to help you flee or objecting would've just gotten him executed too. not even mentioning the fact that ralof didn't even try to tell the soldiers that you weren't with them and just told you to shut up and accept your death.
@@roeko5701 Isn't hadvar,like. somewhat highly respected in the imperials? That must have at least SOME influence. He could've just said to put you in jail or put you on trial ( i know alduin comes and ruins the party shut up about alduin shut up about alduin shut up about alduin ) and you were knocked out before the game starts right? Because ralof says ' hey you, you're FINALLY awake ' which implies you didn't know what happened while you were knocked out. I am pretty sure that they tried to tell them that you weren't part of their little coalition but they didn't listen. But you can twist that however you want. You always do. Imperial scum. You always do
no? he's just a regular soldier in the legion and is there to present you a choice in the beginning whether to go with him or ralof. where did you get the highly respected thing from?
Hadvar didn't even attempt to defend you. With obvious reason, given how authoritarian the Empire is, but he questions you not being on the list, and gives a sincere apology for sentencing you to your death. Not a single suggestion or word to hold the axe for this stranger in the wrong place at the wrong time, not a single alternative solution which could benefit them, just utter compliance. I really can't blame the guy. Hadvar is a good person, you can tell, but was bound by rules which restricted him from doing something about the situation. Understandably so. There was nothing he could do to stop his superiors. He had to leave me to die. Going into Helgan Keep, an Imperial Settlement, in the middle of an attack from one of the most fearsome dragons in existence, and I chose Ralof immediately. He was a brother in chains, and one who kept you company before your death, not to mention assisted you in getting through the wreckage, just like Hadvar. But unlike Hadvar, I could trust him not to hand me over to the Legion. I don't know of Hadvar's fate, but based on a few searches, it seems like he makes it out. Good for him.
@@SRK_223 do the dark brotherhood quest line (activate it by killing grelod the kind in the orphanage in riften then going to Aventus avenicci in windhelm and get a reward from him and then sleep in any bed)
I did the Dark Brotherhood quest line before siding with the Imperials. It was so funny to hear them say "Long live the Emperor" knowing full well that I killed him.
Here's everything you need to know about the war. Thalmor: No more Talos >:3 Empire: Okay Empire: *whispers to Skyrim* you can still worship Talos, just do it quietly so we can appease these nerds until we're ready for war Skyrim: *whispers to the Empire* Sounds fair m8 Ulfric: RAWR LOOK AT MEEEE I LOVE TALOS! FUCK THE ELVES!
he wasn't a thalmor agent, just someone the Thalmor used. the Thalmor couldn't control Ulfric but because he was waging war on the empire and wasn't going to attack the Thalmor (Probably) the Thalmor was like "Meh if he becomes a pest we'll just kill him."
+Tem PlaYZ!!! Then explain why: 1. Ulfric and the Thalmor had established contact after the Great War? 2. Ulfric was cooperative to this direct contact? 3. Ulfric only became uncooperative after the Markarth Incident?
General Tullius: "Are you ready to take the Imperial oath and swear loyalty to the Emperor?" *Me who just finished the Dark Brotherhood questline and killed the Emperor* : 👁️👄👁️ "Yes"
The rightful emperor is the Dragonborn, kill the false emperor, fight for the empire, and inevitably take the throne of the empire, as it’s rightful emperor!
I don't side with the Stormcloaks, but I didn't exactly side with the Empire. I side with Jarl Balgruuf. I can never turn against the first man who ever believed in me. I'm on the side of Whiterun. The Stormcloaks are selfish.
+Elisabeth Hawke I won't lie to you Balgruuf is great, but we all know the greatest man in Skyrim is clearly Sigurd. "I work for Belethor, at the General Goods store."
hey there's that theory saying the emperor was the one sending the hit on himself. in that sense you are serving the emperor the best way possible. creating a change in the government to improve it
Unrelated, if anyone is playing with mods on this thread. Just found this mod called "levelers jewel" increases skill gained by 2000%. I know it takes away the grinding aspect but just a lil shortcut if you want.
During the negotiation mission, I've always wanted to say: "Ulfric Stormcloak, your heart lies with your people, and that is most commendable. You wish the best for the people of this land, and you wish them freedom from their oppressors, yet your heart clouds your mind. You fail to see the bigger picture, and how that instead of fighting against the Empire you see as evil, you should prepare yourself for the coming fight against your common enemy. General, you sit on the other side of this coin. You can see what will come with the fall of the Empire in Skyrim, you can see the Dominion laying waste to this land shall you fail in your duty. But you do not acknowledge the smaller side of things, of how the worship of Talos lies at the soul of the Nordic people, and to take that away is a greater blow to them than any weapon that could be convinced. And to you, Agents of the Aldmeri Dominion... Go f*ck yourself" -The Dragonborn
I don't understand why the dragon born can't make his own empire Like wouldn't it be awesome to raise your own army and bring them to a stormcloaks vs. Imperials battle and cause a three army battle? Maybe ES6?
Well that is clearly just excellent timing on the people who sealed hims part. :) AND if you are being technical the ritual did exactly what it was supposed to... Send him forward in time to someone who could kill him. He is sent forward, directly in front of someone who can kill him a dragonborn.
I'm aware that this video is 5 years old but I wanted to add that if you side with the Imperials and kill Ulfric before heading to Sovengarde in the main quest you can find Ulfric there which implies he did indeed keep his honor. Also that has to be an awkward afterlife having Torygg and Ulfric basically spend eternity together.
I think that may say a lot. If you think about the idea of ulfric just being power hungry and all of the jazz, Ulfric would have been truky honourless given he's lying to the people he swore to be defending. Everything he was doing would have been for a very selfish reason. It goes to say that Ulfric was speaking the truth and was probably doing what he knew he only could do. All in all, I still side with the Imperials due to the fact that they do plan on going to war with the Thalmor just as Ulfric would have wanted. They were trying to keep some peace so that they could appease the Thalmor while sharping the blade they'll use to stab them in the back.
Not at all awkward. There's no personal animosity there. Ulfric killed him in fair combat (I say that even as someone who sides with the imperials literally every play through), and even so the idea of honour seems most important within Nord culture and killing someone "fairly" seems less personal (again, just as long as it's honourable). It's like with Roggvir and captain aldis. There was nothing personal between them, just two men doing what they thought was right. No personal vendettas or hatred or anything. If anything, svaknir and Olaf one-eye would be an awkward eternity, but even then Olaf is ready to greet him with open arms
Stormcloaks: Prejudiced against Dark Elves, starting a civil war during an already tenuous time, overthrew government violently rather than diplomatically. Imperials: Disallowing freedom of religion, siding with the Thalmor, making Skyrim a province of the Empire rather than an independent free state. This was a great choice they gave to the player. Way better than most moral choices which are like, "Do you want to save the babies or eat the babies?"
Skyrim was already a province of the Empire so you got one thing wrong, oh and they allow freedom of religion So you got two things wrong. Shit you got three things wrong, Empire never sided with Thalmor
The Empire never disavowed "freedom of religion," and the talk about Talos worshipers being "grabbed in the night by the Thalmor" is rebel propaganda. The Thalmor guard at Northwatch Keep even tells you that the only way one of their prisoners may be freed is "by ORDER (his emphasis) of the Imperial Legion." Note: He says "by the Imperial Legion" and not "by the Empire," meaning that the Thalmor in Skyrim are obligated to answer to General Tullis, the military governor of the province. As someone already said, Skyrim is already a province of the Empire. It is not a "free state" and especially not under the usurper "High King" Ulfric. Most importantly, the Empire never, ever sided with the "Thalmor" (the Aldmeri Dominion). On the contrary, General Tulius even refers to "Ulfric's little rebellion" as "a mere side show, before the main event against the Dominion resumes." Ulfric's enemy is the Empire. The Empire's enemy is the Dominion. The rebels should be seen as little more than indirect pawns of the Dominion, being used to weaken the Empire.
Yeah, or even tell Balgruuf about how Tullius intends to trick him.. if only they worked out a system where you could share information better with npcs
@@onemanarmysswampparty They werent exactly lazy, they had to cut half of the game's content to meet the gimick deadline of 11/11/11, had we not had that deadline the game wo
@@leepoppop5523 Yeah. I'm all for Skyrim's independence, and would fight for it, but their attitude of "Skyrim for the Nords" seems to extent dangerously past the Thalmor and towards innocent races when, ironically, the Nords weren't the first ones in Skyrim.
"You can't fight the elves alone." My level 1000 emo Shrek with a wooden sword that does 1300 chaos damage per hit with so much moon sugar they're an extra-terrestrial planet begs to differ.
Who would win? A race with superior magics that live a very long life and almost win a war against the biggest empire in tamriel Or One dragon boi with potion of fortify restoration
I think Sybille Stentor summed it up best on why I chose the Empire, despite having strong sympathies to the Stormcloaks: "Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire."
The empire, who won a major victory. Surrendered after they thought they’d lose the war, they betrayed Skyrim and also hammerfell who actually won their war against the dominion. The imperials are the epitome of milk drinkers that would rather sell out their allies for a chance to live on their knees than die on their feet. They cannot be trusted and are incapable of wielding power, so we will crush them from our lands and take up arms with our allies hammerfell and high rock with the help of the dragon born and his ability to control dragons, with the axes of the Stormcloacks, the curved swords and skilled art of combat of the redguards, the magical prowess of the Bretons and the godly given power of the dragon born we would crush the dominion and accomplish what the empire can’t or won’t do. Tamriel needs strong leaders not weak ones.
@@ThemoonsFullofgoons-qn9xl Hammerfell and the Redguards would have fallen at the beginning of the Great War had it not been for the Imperial Legionnaires that was present in their lands when the armies of the Aldmeri Dominion came to take Hammerfell, lol. Only reason why the Aldmeri Dominion failed is because the Empire was able to buy time for the Redguards to get their crap together and form an actual defense. Now whether or not Hammerfell and the Redguards can survive the Aldmeri Domion...The army the Aldmeri Dominion sent to Hammerfell was much weaker than the army they sent to take Cyrodiil. And yet, again, Hammerfell nearly fell, again, were it not for the Imperial Legion currently in Hammerfell. Meanwhile, the greatest army the Aldmeri Dominion sent to Cyrodiil was wiped out. That should tell you the power between the two and that Hammerfell isn't as strong as Cyrodiil and the Empire, if you think otherwise, well... It's nice to have dreams.
@@imperialtrooper927 so why did they surrender that’s the whole point imperials helped the redguards take back hammerfell nords helped the empire take back cyrodil and yet the empire still surrendered when we was all winning they betrayed everyone in the final moment the redguards and the nords certainly weren’t ready to give up which ties back into my original point the world needs stronger leadership not cowards who will sell everyone out
To be fair... 1. Ysgramor & his 500 were Atmorans, which are bigger & more beefy than the Nords we know. 2. Azhidal (pretty much an enchanting God) helped the 500 with his powerful-ass enchantment.
Oblivion is hell, as Sovengard is paradise. I admire how much Skyrim is based off on the Germanic-Roman war. Hence, why I am on Stormcloaks(Germanic) side
In the next game they should bring the thalmor plotline to a climax point(like a big war as you said) if not outright conclude it. If they keep slowly building it up like in skyrim it will be boring.
Let´s not forget that the real WRONG choice is to not choose a side, cuz that is what the Thalmore want, to keep the war going so that neither the legion or the nords are strong enough to defend themselves when the Thalmore finally tries to conquer all of Tamriel. That´s why the Thalmore were trying to interfere on Ulfric execution at the beginning of the game.
+Lazy Guy Unless they're attacked directly, the Argonians won't take part in the wars of Tamriel. The only people the Argonians have attacked in millennia were the Dunmer, and that was for revenge for centuries of slavery. And with the Argonians possibly occupying the southern part of Morrowind, their civilization just beginning to rebuild itself, and the fact they're likely still bitter at humanity for abandoning them during the Oblivion Crisis/ the Argonian invasion, the odds of the Dunmer fighting the Dominion is next to none.
Post Dragonborn DLC Skyrim would roflstomp the Thalmor, the Last Dragonborn is essentially an unstoppable force, with his Dragon summons, Fus Ro Dah, possible assistance from the Daedric Princes you entertain/assist, Bend Will, Dark Brotherhood and maybe even bringing back Dragon Priests/Miraak back to fight via Necromancy. The Last Dragonborn in Lore should be capable of Shattering Continents.
HumanOfPrey in Canon Lore, Miraak managed to bring Solstheim off of the mainland with a shout, Alduin was a threat to all of TES verse and Dragonborn beat him. Lord LDB is one of the strongest none divine/daedric.
+Fusion Zamasu One warrior, no matter how tough, can't beat an entire army. Even Pelinal Whitestrake couldn't do that and he was a Shezarrine (an avatar of Lorkhan).
My Proposal: The Empire is necessary for fighting the Thalmor. The Stormcloak Rebellion (However justified in motive imo) is weakening the Empire. (This is why I might support the Empire.) If I was the Emperor, I would make the Stormcloaks a special unit in the army to take out the Thalmor. If they agreed to do this, I'd allow Ulfric to be the High King and let Nords rule themselves, ie. worship Talos (Even if it has to be done secretly).
That's pretty smart actually. If only they joined forces against the elves. I always play as stormcloak because I hate general tulious. He's a self-righteous, racist tyrant.
Racist is slightly ironic, given Ulfric and the Stormcloak's treatment of... everyone who isn't a Nord? I play as a dark elf in my current playthrough and myyyyyy goshhhhh it doesn't end.
you guys are all looking at this the wrong way. what matters is not who wins a hypothetical war in the approximate future. What matters is wether or not the Thalmor (not the aldmeri dominion, just the Thalmor) will be able TO END THE WORLD. Thats right, because of how gods work in skyrim they think that if they can control the faith of mortals, they can control the gods. They want Talos out of the way, wich is why they want all belief of talos to end wich will effectively kill the divine (its how it works for them) and ultimately control the god of Time, Akatosh, so they can revert time back before the first era, when elves were immortal gods and were not cursed with mortality, and humans didnt exist. This is far beyond shitty conflicts. Siding with the empire is siding against humanity and against the world. I dont like racist nords, i hate ulfric, i know he's just an egotistical power junkie that doesnt give a turd about others, but this is just how things are.
I just simply can't see how the Stormcloaks could possibly stand a chance against the Thalmor. I hate the Thalmor and what they stand for as much as the next Dragonborn, I'm sure ;) haha, but the Stormcloaks can't even defeat the Imperials (not really, they basically lost the war at the start of the game if Alduin hadn't arrived). And the Imperials don't really like the Thalmor anyway, but they are far too weak to fight them off, as broken up as the Empire is fighting the Stormcloaks. The White-Gold Concordat ended the last war, but only barely. It's an obviously temporary thing. I truly believe that the Empire would fight the Thalmor given the chance and likelihood of success. The Stormcloaks are simply giving the Thalmor everything they want by weakening the Empire, and weakening Skyrim.
While I agree with the Stormcloaks more I see the need for a united empire. As most imperials still believe in Talos anyways and would overturn the ban in a heartbeat once the elves are beaten.
@@shuwamppp7300 I mean, when you enter sovngarde to fight Alduin, you can see it holds Nords who fought for either faction, so it doesnt matter which faction you choose, you just have to be a Nord and go down fighting
@@michaelhowze8198 not necessarily, not if that "Empire" isn't the same exact Empire now currently during Skyrim that he originally founded. especially since it's been weakened, corrupted, and infiltrated by the Nazi Elves. tho i can kinda understand WHY the Thalmor hate Talos since he truly was somewhat evil by being a tyrant and conquering other provinces in Tamriel that didn't WANT to be conquered, having an affair with Barenziah and then forcing her to abort his baby that she became pregnant with👶☠️😢💔 possibly killed his good friend/trusted advisor Culuthan behind his back, using that ginormous Numidium robot given to him as a gift from the Dwarves, to commit a genocide from what I've heard. but anyways, in my honest opinion, Talos would be ASHAMED of the current "Empire" during TES V: Skyrim
For the longest time I sided with the Stormcloaks. Religious freedom and power to the people and all that. But as I got older I really started to look at both sides and realized a few things. First the foremost, Stormcloaks are racist as hell. They constantly stream Skyrim is for the nords. They treat the Argonians and Dark Elves like trash around their city. Not to mention the fact that there are several hints and at times direct quotes that suggest Talos was still being worshiped in Skyrim until Ulfric made it an issue. Most importantly, there are also hints that the Imperials do not plan on submitting to the Thalmor forever. They needed to stop and recoup from the war, and have full intentions to 'rebel' against them once they feel ready, and Ulfric is just prolonging that. The final point I'm going to make is that the Stormcloaks, by themselves, do not stand a chance against the Thalmor if they were to invade. The Thalmor has been defeating entire empires, one little province isn't going to stand a chance. I could go on and on about this all day, but I really feel when you stop and look at the two sides, the Imperials are the clear choice in the long run. Or, you know, you could just side with the Imperials because Balgruuf is easily the best Jarl.
Doug Courtney Uhh Just saying Dark Elves are pretty damn racist themselves according to the lore. Not only that but they are refugees that were allowed to live in Skyrim making them citizens but once asked to defend Skyrim they refused. I’m not justifying the Nords actions I think they’re wrong but the whole “Stormcloaks are racist” as an argument when literally EVERY other nation in Tamriel is racist just makes no sense.
@@zachrobinson6801 exactly imagine a group of outsiders coming out of nowhere to live in your country and refuse to protect or provide any benefit to it while also posing a threat to its tradition and your culture
@@Anthony-ig9kj not really a dumbass as first impressions are really important in life as well as games and bad ones like that can really make a person loathe something and make them look for things that supports their already idea instead of trying to see the bigger picture with a open mind. And no no one in their right mind is going to forgive someone that gave them the death order and by extension the place that they worked for which is why a lot of people went against the imperials because of a bad first impression. And i am sure if the king found out about that in the first place he would have had that person executed like i say and can't stress enough first impressions means a lot and it could literally mean life or death
General Tulius captured you while you were in the same area as Ulfric's top rebel Lieutenants. Perhaps they believed you were affiliated somehow. What's worse is the rebels KNOWING you weren't affiliated with them, yet saying nothing of your innocence and willing to let you die with them. I did the Dark Brotherhood quest line once, and I was upset after killing Emperor Meade II. The man was a hero of The Great War and destroyed the Dominion's Army, and he embraced death with a sense of honor Ulfric only wishes he had. I gladly accepted his request to kill Motierre, and every play through after that I destroyed the Dark Brotherhood for the Penitus Oculatus.
@@briansheehan3430 the imperials would come to their conclusions where the stormcloaks supported you or not honestly if the carriage driver were smart he would have spoke up about how the horse thief and you aren't associated with the stormcloaks because they're going to their death and asking what your name is. Really like i said stormcloaks claiming you weren't with them flat out would be really damming "support".
I get that they probably didn't have time for it, but I would have liked them to give the player several chances to flip sides. I think that would have been an interesting thing RP-wise. Kinda bummed that you only get one chance to change side which is right at the beginning of the quest line. Mid-way betrayal after learning more about the details of Civil War and questioning your reasoning for joining either side would have been a cool mechanic.
i have many reason to side with them 1 freedom of religion i worship hircine and the Reclamation dunmer 2 blue Alba gu bràth Scotland forever nords are as close to scotland as they can get and i mostly play dunmer
Thalmor: Talos worship is outlawed! Make sure this is carried out, or the so called "Empire" will be erased from Tamriel! Empire: Yes, my superiors... - A few days later - Skyrim: Is it okay if we worship Ta- Empire: SHH! You can do it in "secret". Just don't expect us to save you when you're found out. Skyrim: Thank you! - A few more days later - Heimskr: TALOS THE MIGHTY! TALOS THE UNERRING! TALOS THE UNENDING! WE PRAISE HIM, FOR HE WAS ONCE MAN, BUT NOW, HE IS DIVINE! Dragonborn: Shut the hell up, or I'll gut you for getting Whiterun in trouble! Heimskr: WE ARE LETTING THE ELVES TAKE OUR FREEDOM, BUT WHAT NEXT? OUR HOUSES? OUR CHILDREN? OUR VERY LIVES!? Dragonborn: No, but I'll do the last one. Heimskr: TALOS TH- wait what? (Gets shouted into a Dustman's Carin, then gets chased by Draugr to Fort Greymoor,where he gets kidnapped and on the trail, but then Giants launch the escort,killing Heimskr.
_Alternate Ending_ Dragonborn: Shut the hell up,or I'll gut you for getting Whiterun in trouble! Heimskr: THE ELVES HAVE TAKEN OUR FREEDOM,BUT WHAT NEXT? OUR HOUSES? OUR CHILDREN? OUR VERY LIVES!? Dragonborn: Aaagh! I warned you, and now your time is limited. - A few days later, at night- (Heimskr is sleeping in his bed, but then Odahviing breaks through Heimskr's house's roof, and carries him to the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, where he is tortured by Cicero for several days, until he is bound and gagged. Cicero gives him to Vampires, so he can be turned into a stage 1 vampire. He is then taken to the Dawnguard, and has his bones broken by armoured trolls, and his limbs are chewed off by Huskies. He is finally killed by Isram and his snide remarks,but ends up on the Shivering Isles, and Sheogoratg turns him into a toilet, and shall be forced to literally eat sh*t for the rest of his life.) Empire: Here's your payment, Dragonborn.
Although I sympathise with the stormcloaks, I always got the impression that it was the wrong choice tactically for all of Tamriel since the empire would be weakened relative to the Thalmor. But then I started thinking... The empire is dying, and it has been ever since Martin Septim. In my own headcanon the Dragonborn, after saving the world, becomes such a popular demigod of a person that he spearheads the beginning of a new empire. Like the rebirth of Talos himself, with Skyrim at his back.
In my headcanon the Dragonborn becomes the Highkind of Skyrim and uses his influence and power to be declared the next Cyrodiil Emperor , because c'mon, Tiber was a Dragonborn, and so is the MC. They are both descendants of Akatosh and thus deserve to rule. Now give me my amulet and my mf crown or else I kill you all same I did with the world ending dragon.
@@XLucas54 One scenario could be that he wins over elements of the legion AND the stormcloaks to his side, perhaps convincing legionnaires and officers that they swore an oath to the emperor but as the dragonborn he is the only true emperor. Otherwise he sides with the stormcloaks and declares himself emperor, with Ulfric as High King supporting him, and marches on Cyrodiil. It would be the start of a new dynasty, so technically a new empire. This would all be based on the Dragonborn having the sheer popular support of the people who rever him/her for saving the world.
There are journals and notes in the Thalmor embassy that say Ulfric is their asset. Ulfric said he escaped after he was captured in the Great War. The journals say the Thalmor let him escape and played him for the fool he is. By starting the civil war he played directly in the Thalmor's hands, because it would weaken the empire, maybe even give them an excuse to root out followers of Talos. As long as the civil war continues or ends up in the favor of the Stormcloacks the Thalmor are happy. Delphine suspected the Thalmor to be behind the dragons because it allowed Ulfric to escape Helgen and continue the war. Aside from demanding the death of Paarthurnax, she is actually pretty smart and well informed.
No, wrong. The Thalmor never intended for Ulfric to actually win the civil war. Their entire plan revolves around him weakening the Empire, then losing and being executed. Anyone who sides against Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.
+XCHAP YEG If Skyrim is no longer part of the Empire it will still weaken it. You see, Skyrim will no longer send resources to the Empire like food coin weapons and soldiers. Hammerfell left the Empire earlier too, so nothing from them either. The Thalmor divided them, next they will conquer. The AD took the Imperial city even with their help in the Great War. Now without them it will be a breeze. Especially since the Aldmeri Dominion had time to rebuild their army and resources to full strenght, while the Imperials were fighting in Skyrim. Maybe the Dragonborn can do something about the Thalmor and the AD. If it's up to "High King" Ulfric however, then I'll have some serious doubts. The Empire might help out Hammerfell if the AD declares war on them although that also depends on what the details in the White-Gold Concordat treaty are. If the AD declares war on the Empire and both Hammerfell and Skyrim decide to stay out of it, then the next emperor will be an elf.
+XCHAP YEG The Empire and the Stormcloaks were at war and Skyrim even had a dragon crisis. They must have lost a lot of resources (men and coin). Even if Ulfric is willing and going to help the Empire in the next war against the AD, he still wouldn't contribute much. Skyrim needs time to rebuild and they won't have that if the Thalmor played their cards right. If they have then a fresh AD stands on their border ready to invade. A united Empire without internal struggle wasn't enough to stop the AD in the Great War. Unless the Dragonborn with dragon friends steps in, weakened Empire and Skyrim doesn't stand a chance against the AD. Even Tiber Septim needed the Brass God to defeat them. Actually now that I think about it, I don't think helping either side in the civil war would help keep the AD at bay. Ulfric never should have started the civil war in the first place. I still prefer the Imperials because Ulfric doesn't think things through and would make for a horrible king.
Sure sure, we could talk all day about who's right or wrong, Imperials, Stormcloaks, Thalmor, Dragons.. But regardless of what or who you are, there is one thing the entirety of Skyrim and perhaps even all of Tamriel and Nirn can agree with. Nelkir dies as soon as he opens his mouth.
I always have to side with the Imperials. At first it was just because I absolutely love the Roman aesthetic, but the more I got into the lore, the more I realized they're the best choice. The greatest display of this is in the fact that within several months of arrival, General Tulius already captured Ulfric. And it's not like he accomplished this with several veteran legions; no, this was accomplished by legions made up of untested Nordic warriors only recently raised to fight this rebellion. If Ulfric could barely handle this, there's no way he could handle the Empire, let alone the Dominion, at full strength. It's also fairly evident that while Ulfric is passionate, he's not a very good leader. He is overly vicious and barbaric (as displayed by his actions during the Markarth Incident). He prioritizes his own impatience over prudence and forethought (as displayed by his actions in murdering High King Torygg instead of talking). He is dishonorable (as displayed by his misuse of a power like the Voice in a duel). He is arrogant and self-centered (as displayed by how he responds to General Tulius's warnings about the Thalmor if you side with him and fight to Solitude). It is evident that he is not the right choice for High King, let alone Jarl of an entire Hold.
and add on the fact during the negotiation section of the main story. when the greybeards hold a council, to negotiate a truce so jarl balgruff can aid the dragonborn, and prioritise the dragon threat. Ulfric instantly goes to antagonising the Thalmor ambassador and worse immediately proceeds to make petty demands for more territory, from the imperials, and threatening to storm off like a child when he doesnt get what he wants. treating the Truce negotiation as a Powergrab attempt instead of prioritising Skyrims Safety against alduin and the dragons.
The Thalmor either way would get fucked if an Imperial or an Stormcloak victory is achieved. Ulfric though being a former agent of the thalmor would try to banish them aswell because let’s be fair everybody hates the damn Thalmor they are as racist arrogant and tyrannical as the Stormcloaks. 2nd you would have to see that almost every leader except balgruuf in skyrim is absolutely arrogant and barbaric for example the imperials trying to immediatly execute you without knowing your history or for example Noster in Solutide when he tells you how he was left alone by other imperial soldiers in battle to be killed
So to be fair yes Imperials do have more morals politically but in things like battle, the stormcloaks are way more brotherly and actually mourn the deaths of many of those that fell, coming back to racism it’s true that the Nord or Stormcloaks have a prejudiced against dark elves, but even that doesn’t stop you from becoming a stormcloak soldier even if you play as a dark elf so the Stormcloaks do have a little approval and tolerance for those that fight for them you can see that for example when you as a dark elf go to stormcloak camps they don’t comment on your race but rather inspire you to die like a hero so I truly think the Stormcloaks aren’t that bad like they seem
@@TheFallinhaloyou have to understand that the Thalmor are really the dicks in this game they are the true evil that seek domination they even tend to be racist just like the Stormcloaks when they battle you. Atleast in the German version they say „Stirb Menschliches Wesen“ which means Die Human Creature so seriously I can’t blame his hatred for the Thalmor especially after they tortured him if you read the dossier of ulfric stormcloak and his little agency with the Thalmor
The difference between that is: Hammerfell was united to fight against the Thalmor, just some nobles like Iman(Saadia) betrayed the resistance, so it's more easy to fight Thalmor united and with their all mighty curved swords
@@leonardozeni1167 both Hammerfell and Skyrim r countries that r impossible 4 the Thalmor to take over as the Altmer come from a rather balanced and humid environment on the Summerset Isles meaning that they're not used to extreme cold (Skyrim) or extreme heat (Hammerfell) as if the Thalmor wanted to take over Skyrim then they'd need to take Winterhold, the Pale and Eastmarch to do so and install the Frostfall mod and set the exposure as high as it will go, set the option to hardcore and walk around those areas and u would see just how successful the knife-eared Nazis would be :-)
@@GenericUsername-qp1ww 1. Hammerfell didn't beat the Thalmor. 2. What they did do, can largely be attributed to the large quantity of Legion veterans left behind by General Decianus. It's canon that the Concordat was the only way for the Empire to survive the onslaught of the Dominion.
@@dutchpatriot17 1: whether or not they did, they're seriously giving those knife-eared Nazi's a good hammering and shoving their curved swords up their asses 2: the Stormcloaks r made up of some disenfranchised Legion veterans (e.g Ulfric and Galmar) who feel the corrupt 4th era Empire have lost their way Titus Medes Empire is a joke which is y I believe him being assasinated is canon when ES6 comes along
I join the empire for two reasons; 1. Maven Black-Briar becomes Jarl of Riften 2. I don't like to invade Whiterun after all Balgruuf has done for us ;-;
Balgruuf done so much for i can't turn my back on him let's just admire that he put he's city and he's people on the line to help u kill alduin I honestly think imperials are goat even with there fucked up flaws
+Lauren Thorarinson, I don't wanna sound ungratefull, but what exactly did Balgruuf for us? I kinda like him myself, but he don't seem to be overly willing to do anything. He helped with catching Odahwiing, but after the Dragonborn solved the Civil War event, that's not the reason to side with him anyway. At least he owes the Dovahkiin for solving his problem, not the other way around. I even didn't join either Imperials, nor Stormcloaks, still sided with Balgruuf, because I needed him, lol.
I sided with them becouse the dragonborn has the only legitimate claim to the imperial throne. I think siding with the stormcloaks is just to press that claim.
Wow, some close parallels! Except the EU is more like the Aldmeri Dominion than the Empire. They don't take orders from foreign oppressors under sufferance, they are the ones directing it.
I joined the Stormcloaks in my first playthrough BECAUSE I AM A TRUE NORD, but then after the Battle of Whiterun I felt my heart break as they took Jarl Balgruuf (the truely true high king of Skyrim) away and my love of the Stormcloaks diminished into a decision to wipe them from the glorious emperor's soil. So yeah go team
greg seriously dude balgruuf respects you for who you are and respects your decisions and gave you two weapons and a home within the city and says he is honoured to have you as thane of whiterun and yet you call him a fag. Man I cannot wait to hear your side of the story
On the Thalmor notes on Ulfirc, small detail, at the very end it actually says the the thalmor don't want the Empire to win the civil war either. The thalmor doesn't want either side to win. The Thalmor wants the civil war to exist, not to be resolved. No matter who wins the civil war, the winner will have to face the thalmor. After the dragonborn DLC, i think the dragonborn faction is totally more plausible (if not quite perfectly plausible). The bend will shout changes everything.... Imagine building an army of dragons under your command. An army of dragons in the daytime, and an army of vampires in the night. Win the civil war. And then..... I don't care how tough you dainty high elves think you are. I don't care if you are from the Summerset Isles. I've got an army of mother fucking dragons, and I will slay you all. The empire has already proven impotent against the Thalmor. The only way to truly usurp the elves would be a game changer like a dragon army. I so want this.
The fact that today even 10 years later people still argue over this is amazing how much this game had a impact even yesterday on the official discord people were arguing over if balgruff should have joined stormcloaks or imperials
yea just did the civil war for the first time (on my first play through i’m a little late) and my buddy and i were arguing about who’s the better choice (i chose the empire he was dead set on the stormcloaks) and it’s still a on going rant
To be honest I believe the imperials are better. And I couldn't betray jarl balgruf I just wish they would betray the thalmor Now that I think about it why cant the imperials and stormcloaks team up to defeat the thalmor I HATE the thalmor with a passion
Daniel DiMario You should speak more with people then, In a speak with the dragonborn, Legat Rikke indicates, that the stormcloak attack makes the Empire using the Troops, the Empire and General Tulius build for ending the 'enslavery' of the fucking Thalmor asholes
Team Thlamor ALL DAY, nobody seems to know that first of all, Talos, during his conquest of Tamriel, when he came to the Summerset Isles, mass murdered the Elves for not joining the Empire. Some of whom whould have still been alive during the events of skyrim so they naturally are gonna hold a grudge. So hes a peice of shit and should be outlawed from being worshipped, secondly in no fucking universe could an independent Stormcloack Skyrim, fresh off a civil war no less, defend against the Aldmeri Dominion and the Thalmor, the Stormcloacks are an Elf racist, Ignorant regime whom worship a mass murderer, and the Empire is an oppressive, Elf hating Regime as well
The Dragonborn is still a mortal, eventually he would get overrun. One warrior, no matter how tough, can't beat an entire army. Even Pelinal Whitestrake couldn't do that and he was a Shezarrine (an avatar of Lorkhan).
I remember years ago, my friend had possibly the most logical reason for joining the stormcloaks (in his eyes anyhow) he said in his own wise words "because the imperials are gay, and they wear gay little skirts n that innit" From that day fourth I was inspired.
I’ve played through both quest stories,and I’d prefer to be on Whiterun side,Companions,going to the Steward for bounties,coming home to Lydia in Breezehome. I’m on Whiterun side.
But no matter what Titus Mede the second gets assassinated, this is the reason why i think siding with the empire make more sense, as at the end of the civil war you are a legate. So the empire has a high ranking soldier who just so happens to be the freaking DRAGONBORN and the emperor just died with no heirs, so of course they are going to crown the Drangonborn.
Heroes depart after their prophecies are fulfilled: thus was the case of the Vestige, thus was the case of the Eternal Champion, thus was the case of the Hero of Daggerfall, thus was the case of the Nerevarine, thus was the case with the Champion of Cyrodiil, thus will be the case of the Dragonborn.
The Champion of Cyrodiil is heavily implied to have ascended to the Godhood as Sheogorath reborn. In Skyrim, Sheogorath will tell you that he had was at the Oblivion Crisis for "that whole sordid affair" and that his position was passed down from him to himself.
No he cant dragonborn can reload! Respawn means that when you die you respawn and everything you did has hapened! that sweetroll you stealed? Thats in your inventory still! Shooting guards in the knee? They are mad at you still! You reload because everything you did has not happened yet
The best ending is in the High of Hrothgar: Both sides get what they want There is a truce: Enough time for both sides to regroup and reconsider who their real enemy is: the Thalmor I believe THIS is the actual ending that the writers intended for Skyrim or else they wouldn't bother to put a Season Unending questline but rather have the main hero just join either side and win the civil war for his/her preferable faction And I personally like it this way The scenario of the Empire either collapsing or EVEN somehow unrealistically rising and reconquering Tamriel are equally dumb for me
The civil war as a whole is stupid in my opinion, and I'd prefer not to side with either. However, I think your reasoning for the Stormcloaks not being able to beat the Aldmeri Dominion is false. First off we have to take into account that the Dominion was hurt every bit as badly during the war as the Empire. While lore is a little conflicting it's pretty clear that the Dominion wasn't really in much better a place after the great war. This is further explained by the lack of Dominion power in Skyrim. The fact is the Dominion would have crushed the Nords a long time ago if they were actually capable of doing so. They haven't because they're not physically capable of it anymore. Their empire is shattered after the war and they know it. They're continued presence in Skyrim is purely to continue to flex their muscles to keep the Nords and Imperials complacent. They're bluffing in an attempt to keep the humans scared. I'd also like to point out that the Dominion isn't just looking to rule the Nords and Imperials. They wouldn't have any problem destroying cities and leveling the countryside like you claimed. While it's never explicitly stated there are subtle hints that the Dominion has a much more sinister goal than just ruling the world. All this conflict is also not just for conquest, but for religion. The Dominion believe that humans are heretics to their religion. This isn't about resources or land, it's about ideals and race. The elves believe themselves superior to man. This is why they hate Talos so much. The very idea that a man acended to godhood is a slap in the face to them. The Dominion will not stop at ruling Tamriel. To them this is about destroying anyone that doesn't agree with them. The White Gold Concordat wasn't a "we own you" treaty as you said. The elves knew they couldn't go any more either, but they were smart enough to broker for a "peace" that benefited them more than others. The Emperor at the time was just too afraid and too tired of death and destruction leading to his signing. What's my proof of this? Hammerfell and Black Marsh. Both these nations have managed to remain "free" of the Dominion without any help at all. Hammerfell is no more powerful than Skyrim yet they have managed to hold their own in a constant war with the Dominion to this day. Black Marsh is far more powerful at this point and likely too dangerous for the Dominion to even try to take. Now lets say that the Stormcloaks win the civil war. They could easily join forces with the rebellious Redguard which would likely be enough on its own to take back Hammerfell and keep Skyrim. Now factor in the Orcs who would never bow to anyone. Out of pure necessity, and from lore I've read a likely respect I see no reason the Orcs wouldn't also join this cause. You also have to factor in the Dark Elves who hate the Altmer more than anyone. While the Nords are racist pricks the few remaining Dark Elves would almost certainly join forces with them in a war with the Dominion. After factoring in all these different groups, both large and small, you have a very formidable force. Now I will confess I don't know the current state of Highrock all that well, but if Hammerfell and Skyrim both became free in this scenario then it's likely it wouldn't matter one way or the other. Highrock would be an ally again out of pure necessity. You're not going to go against your two closest neighbors, especially when they're fighting someone you don't much like either. Finally we come to the Imperials. Yes, it's likely the bulk of the Imperial soldiers would work for the Dominion, whipping boys that they are. However, most Imperials don't like the Dominion at all. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and in a scenario like the one presented I doubt a little grudge like the civil war would be enough to make all Imperials decide to join a group that hates them out of pure spite. I could easily see many people rising up within Cyrodill itself which would destabilize the Dominion forces. Overall I honestly believe it would be totally possible for the Stormcloaks to win against the Dominion, or at least drive them from Tamriel. However, this whole scenario becomes a lot easier to pull off if Imperial forces and Stormcloaks work together in Skyrim to do what I said and then use Imperial influence to get the other groups mentioned to join the cause. If any of you read all of this rant then I appreciated you so very much, and I hope you enjoyed it. Please leave any comments, rebuttals, etc as I'd be really interested to hear them.
The Stormcloaks are capable of taking down the Dominion? Nope. They are born because the Dominion wanted to and they are so squishy and disorganised that they were losing with a single legion of the Empire (they captured their leader, another time? Dies he even learn from his errrors?!) at the beginning of the game. The lavk of power of the Dominion in Skyrim? Elenwen is always present, Thalmor patrols walk the wilderness taking prisoners, there are an Embassy and Dominion forts.....
"It's pretty clear" the contrary. The Concordat was signed because even if the Empire won the Thalmor were a menace however, if not it didn't make sense to accept it. The Dominion coukd have been weakened at the time and still the Empire, who had beaten it, feared it at the point to accept their claims. The same Empire who just used not even the 1/10 of its force to fight and arrive very closely to defeat the Stormcloaks.
+Giuseppe Ciullo The war between the Empire and the Stormcloacks is on every level very different to a war between the Stormcloaks and the Thalmor. This is because the Legion of the Empire they were was already in Skyrim and litraly only miles away fron the Stormcloaks.The distance between Skyrim and the summerset isles is nearly the size of Tamriel so the Thalmor sendind in a proper army would takes up to months, this would the Stormcloaks more than enoungh time to build proper defences around Skyrim giving the Stormcloaks a large advantege. Also as Wishbone mentioned not many people like the Thalmor and would most likely seize the opportunity to fight them as well even if there not helping the Stormcloaks directly, meaning the Thalmor would be fighting most countries in Tamriel, a fight they could not possibly win.
Giuseppe Ciullo It's very clear that if the Dragonborn doesn't pick a side the civil war would continue indefinitely. So, no, the Empire wasn't "very close" to beating the Stormcloaks. It's also pretty clear that the Imperial forces in Skyrim are probably the least damaged in all of Tamriel since the great war. Cyrodill from most accounts is pretty much 100% under Dominion control and since it took the brunt likely has little in the way of real forces left. So really the Empire is probably using far more than 1/10 of its power against the Stormcloaks. Another point is that Hammerfell has bands of rebels who are holding back Dominion soldiers pretty damn well at the same time as the events of Skyrim. Are you saying that a ragtag group of rebels are any better than the Stormcloaks? Also I said that the Stormcloaks alone could not win. However, there are a multitude of allies they can call on. This allied force would have a very good chance of pushing back the weakened Dominion. Finally the Emperor is clearly a tired old man. He accepts death without an ounce of fight in him if you play through the Dark Brotherhood storyline simply stating that "there is no escaping the Dark Brotherhood". He's accepted fate. Do you honestly believe that a man like this wouldn't have signed the Concordat just because he was tired of fighting and believed that death would find him and the empire either way? The state of the world at the time of Skyrim pretty much proves that the rest of the empire wasn't beaten yet. Cyrodill may have been, but not the empire as a whole. Titus Mede II signed the Concordat because he didn't *want* to fight anymore, not because he couldn't.
Giuseppe Ciullo The empire didn't have enough fight in them to even keep fighting the Dominion. Cyrodill is likely completely under Dominion control and acting as lapdogs at this point. That "one legion" is likely the bulk of the official Imperial forces left. Also, even if Ulfrick was killed in Helgen it wouldn't be the end of the Stormcloaks. His death would likely just work as a Martyrdom and create a fury within the remaining forces. Ulfrick's army is full of well trained leaders that could take his place. None are as charismatic, but that wouldn't matter when they could just shout the "great martyr" Ulfrick's name before every battle and have the troops ready to smash everything in their path. Also it's true that the Dominion wants the Stormcloaks to win because they believe they're just a bunch of lesser humans incapable of defeating the might of elves. However, what the Dominion believes doesn't translate to truth. The Dominion are boasters. They're not the type to just admit defeat. They'd be boasting and acting strong even if they were invaded in Summerset. You as the Dragonborn destroy the entirety of one of their "forts" by yourself in a sidequest (or with the help of a couple of Nords if you chose). That's not exactly a powerful force if they can loose a well defended fort to a group of at most 4 people. And like I said, the Stormcloaks alone could not win. No group on their own could. However, as I stated there are plenty of allies within a short distance from Skyrim. And if you look a real world history it's not hard for a weaker, less organized group of natives to beat a grand, invading empire. While the Stormcloaks couldn't beat the Thalmor empire as a whole they could easily do what Hammerfell is doing and keep them at bay in Skyrim. The Viet Cong in the real world are a perfect example of this.
@kerosin fuchs do you know that they were trying to free The rebel leader and the general is actually standing up the elves were trying to get him released so that the Civil War could keep on going that weakening the empire if it wasn’t for the dragon that attacked the Ford then the rebellion would’ve been crushed and the elves would have to fight a stronger empire
@@alexoisthestupid1469 Stronger Empire? If all the power the Empire has is in skyrim, they are all doomed even before the civil war. Now, go lick some Thalmors boots.
@@mistermustacheguy2763 yeah, i mean, the Empire is no longe a good government for other provinces. Im sure as hammerfell gained independency, things started to work better bcs they didnt had the Empire's taxes anymore.
@@MrAdam496 you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about if you think all of their power is in Skyrim lmao, their army there is a fraction of their actual army, hell they only sent a General after a while to the civil war and he captured Ulfric within months at most
I'd like to point out that during the main storyline you find out that Jarl Ulfric was sent by the Thamor to sow discontent and rebellion in Skyrim and while they themselves don't think he's on their side anymore he's doing exactly what they wanted him to do....for that reason Empire is the only right choice. End the rebellion and reunite the people against the real enemy
Exactly. The Empire may have a weaker military than the Thalmor and will have been weakened even more by the civil war, but they will also have more veterans, and more importantly, the power of the Dragonborn who can easily slay any Thalmor rats. That's one of the reasons I always join the Empire-I don't belief that they will be permanently subservient to the Thalmor, another war will eventually come, and when it does, the Thalmor will tremble before the power of the Dragonborn and the worship of Talos will be allowed again, all without the racism and bigotry of the Stormcloaks.
People tend to forget that in that book Is also written that a Stormcloak victory is not a good thing either. The Thalmor simply don't want a winner to emerge, but a civil war that lasts till the real war begin. There's not a good thing to do beside of the belief of the player. That's not the Septim empire either, that came to an end as Tiber Septim predicted in Morrowind. Talos conquered all the provinces slaughtering people with a god-machine.The Thalmor can't conquer Tamriel, they don't have the Power nor the men(they also lost to the redguard)
I side with Jarl Balgruuf, he is the true Hi-King. Edit: The Death of Torygg is also another reason why I side against Ulfric, I find his actions cowardly, nothing more then a greedy bully picking on someone who was clearly out of his league.
nctect cout Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you. Lights are on but no body is at home sort of ordeal. I am just going to assume you are either young or a troll, and not genuinely that naive.
The Thalmore are the real enemy, here. What finally tipped the scale for me was when I was infiltrating the Thalmore Embassy and came across their case files on Ulfric Stormcloak. They'd rather have the Stormcloaks win because it gives the Thalmore an advantage. The best move against them is to have the Imperials win, and win quickly. Less casualties = more people to fight the Thalmore later because they will be back.
Paige Peña I saw that too! The thalmor are even sabatoging the civil war in skyrim and had a plan to free ulfric at the beginning before the dragon showed up. They want skyrim to be split, and ulfric is doing that. Side with the imperials and unite skyrim!
@Paige Yeah, I've played a High Elf mage character... unfortunately, Bethesda doesn't allow you to join the Thalmor Faction, mores the pity. A more fleshed out story arc if you join them rather than the Imperials or the Stormcloaks would have been cool, maybe even some of the quests being some sabotaging to cause more strife. But now I'm playing a Nord Imperialist... death to the elves!
The Thalmor mention in the dossier written about Ulfric that an Imperial victory harms their overall position in Skyrim, and say that indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed and that Ulfric is their "asset." An independent Skyrim would be blocked off at all of its ports, and would receive no aid or resources from the Empire, and would thus have to rely on their own. Skyrim under the Empire has Cyrodil to the north, and the Empire could possibly restore relations with Hammerfell, seeing as how it was due to the Imperial Legion that Hammerfell was able to push out the Dominion and defeat Lady Arranelya's troops.
Lots of people don't seem to mention that the Aldmeri Dominion want BOTH sides to keep fighting. They have helped both sides to try and keep the war going and the empire distracted.
My thoughts on the lore. 1) I support the empire, as they do not support the Thalmor, as is often stated. They signed the WG Concordant as a peace treaty, not a surrender. This was likely signed to protect the WG tower, see point 4. 2) Both the Aldmeri Dominion and the Empire are preparing for a second war, and neither plans on having another truce. I want the Empire as unified and powerful as possible against the Dominion, and it is often stated that the Nords make up a considerable portion of their army, or at least a highly skilled portion of it. 3) I think the stormcloaks are racist, yes they gave the gray quarter to the dunmer but, despite what others say, they do not give them equal opportunities. The example often given to counter this point is that of the dark elf, Belyn Hlaalu, owning a farm outside the city. My response to this is simple, if you recall, Hlaalu is one of the Great Houses of Morrowind, of course a member of that house will recieve privileges that the commoners will not. The other example given is that of Niranye, a high elf, this example is a weak one. Niranye can be heard talking to Captain Lonely Gale, asking if he still has contacts in the shipping industry, he says he won't aid any smuggling, to which she calls him a wet blanket, clearly showing that, to own her meagre stall, she resorts to illegal smuggling. She can also be heard having conversations with Revyn and Torbjorn, which hint at her ties to the thieves guild, this connection is confirmed by the fact you can fence stolen items to her after helping the Guild gain influence in Windhelm. The two elves that are cited as the most successful are a noble and a thief/smuggler, hardly an indication of an equal opportunity environment. 4) The empire needs to be as strong as possible as it is heavily implied that the Aldmeri Dominion want to destroy the Towers, the very anchors of existance that keep the world from experiencing a planemeld, the reason for this is that they believe they can reach divinity through destruction of man. The reason they outlawed Talos worship is that, when a god has no believers in the ES universe, they cease to exist, Talos ceasing to exist would weaken all of mankind, as he protects them. The concordant was likely signed in order to prevent the destruction of the WG tower, one of the aforementioned Towers, another of which is the Adamantium tower in High Rock, which the dominion also attacked. This also explains why the empire recalled legions to protect the Imperial City in both the Oblivion crisis and the Great War, both attackers want to cause a planemeld, the only thing preventing it is the towers. 5) Without the empire's protection, both Skyrim and it will fall, the Dominion has the largest navy in Tamriel, as is stated often, allowing an invasion through the northern coast of Skyrim, and no, the Sea of Ghosts will not stop such an invasion, as it is not impossible to do so, the sea is regularly traversed by traders. 6) Talos will not approve of the Stormcloaks undoing the very empire he created, the same empire that he ruled, his formation of a unified empire caused his ascension to godhood, I wouldn't be surprised if the destruction of the Empire caused him to loose power or even cease to exist. 7) The Stormcloaks claim to be protecting the "Nord way of life" in a province that has been part of the empire longer than any other province, if the nord way of life were to disappear, wouldn't it have already done so, over the hundreds of years belonging to the Empire? 8) The Stormcloaks are impatient and whiney. It is clear that there is an established way to become High King, through a moot, if Ulfric can't become High King fairly, through a vote from the Jarls, then is he really fit for leadership? 9) Ulfric murdered the high king, and not in a fair duel, he is a former Greybeard apprentice, and used his powers to win. He even states that it was a message to the other Jarls. If you meet the high king in Sovengard, he will tell you the same thing, and that he just misses his beloved wife, Elisif. 10) Ulfric is the most irrational person in the room when negotiating a peace deal during the main questline, he is the one who demands Imperial held holds during a peace treaty, not Tulius. He endangers the Dragonborn's plan for defeating Alduin just because he wants Markarth. Then he tries to make it seem as though it was he who wants nothing more than to help defeat Alduin if you skew the deal in Imperial favour. He is a child, unable to fight fairly in anything, whining about everything because he is so very oppressed and misunderstood. Tulius, on the other hand, is mature throughout the whole event and does not need the blades to tell him that he is being a baby.
I completely agree with the last point, i was leaning a bit for stormcloaks at the very beginning until i figured out whiterun is rich and empire-owned while all the stormcloak cities seem a bit poorer. His attitude during the peace treaty was so bad that if given the option i would execute him myself in the middle of it.
The problem with Ulfric Is that he misses information and that he couldn't accept a foreign race stopping his kin from worshipping the creator of the empire. He doesn't knows that the Empire is planning to strike again on the Aldmeri, etcs, in his mind as in every stormcloak mind is that the empire was coward in giving up their creator. That was my opinion too lul. He could be more smarter and kinda of realize that, but put yourself on his position, you don't have acess to the information like gods as we do, and his anger and etcs makes him to narrowly focus on the attack on the Empire. Imagine Prussia as humans in WW1 and the French as altmor. Now imagine that you lost your whole family and friends fighting in the WW1 for in the end they sign up the white gold concordat and now you can't worship your main god (Talos). If Ulfric dies and raises to sovngarde he should know all that but the devs didn't want to give all that.
It's obvious that you held quite the bias when you were reviewing this information. One could easily turn these points against you. #8 for example, if you had actually seen the stormcloaks siege of Solitude; he refuses the mantle of high king until the moot deems him high king.
Henric Sjölin I have seen both endings, and I stand by my point, he is happy to go through with a moot once he replaces all the jarls with his supporters, of course he is. The empire on the other hand has no problem with having anti-empire jarls, the jarl of Morthal is very openly anti-thalmor, the jarl of dawnstar was jarl for a long time before the war broke out, and would have likely continued to rule if he hadn't raised his flag in rebellion, and he openly persecuted imperial veterans.
3:37 that's a great point actually. Like the problem the Mongols had for example was that the land they conquered didn't give any valuable ressources, because most of the times they butchered every resistance, from which there was plenty. The only thing the Mongols had that made them superior to other forces was the manpower they gained from the conquered lands, especially Asia since they kind of held back there. But ultimately that was their downfall when they destabilised considerably after the failed invasions of Japan and the death of the Khan. It's the whole "ruling with fear" debate basically, and the most important thing you can take away from all that, is that incorporating the culture and the religion in the conquered lands tends to always be better than going full Mongol. That's why the Roman Empire survived for over 1000 years (technically even 2000 if considering Byzantium) and the Mongols only a century and a few decades. And the thing that led to the downfall of the Romans was especially the slave rebellions, so people inside the Empire that were treated badly. So an immortal empire is probably somewhat possible actually, by treating it's habitants all the same in a democracy for example. I mean the best example for this is today, most western and westernised countries are far from being unstable and will probably, unless WW3 comes, continue to exist for forever, unless a radical party takes over or something which may screw things over. Also once again, a radical party can only gain enough support to take over if enough people feel treated badly.
treating it's habitants isn't necessary, as long as everyone basic needs fulfilled then even dictatorship can survive. democracy with shtty leader and government ain't going to feed people stomach or give people shelter
The civil war storyline is honestly really tragic; no matter what side you support both the Empire and Stormcloaks lose so many good warriors when they should have been allies against the Dominion. I sympathise with them in a few ways but I could never join the Stormcloaks. I could never betray the legacy of Martin and the Champion of Cyrodiil, plus a united Empire is the only way to beat the Dominion
That's right! If I'm not wrong, Martin became Akatosh (the hero of Kvatch says so) and all dragons, including the dragonborn, are a part of Akatosh's soul.
The Empire betrayed Martin's legacy by allowing the Thalmor to take all the credit for his sacrifice and the end of the Oblivion Crisis. I'm going to honor Martin's legacy by fighting for what's right, an independent Tamriel free of Thalmor corruption. Skyrim is just the first step. The Empire is nothing but a rotted husk now.
Okay, considering that Bethesda is likely going to be starting on elder scrolls 6 within the next year or so, I think I'll just get this out of the way; I was planning on saving it for my fanfic, but with time running out, here goes: This is something that's occurred to me within the past couple of months, and makes me DREAD a Stormcloak victory - quite simply put, the Empire sees the bigger picture here. And I don't just mean 'skyrim needs to Empire to fight off the Thalmor', I mean Skyrim needs the Empire to remain STABLE and survive long enough to fight them. To clarify what I mean, let's first look to Hammerfell, the providence that was able to fight the Thalmor/Dominion. A decent number of Stormcloak supporters claim that, if Hammerfell was able to fend off the dominion, then so can Skyrim when it claims it's independence. Wrong. You want to know why Hammerfell was able to remain stable enough to fight on? It was STABLE. To elaborate, you need to understand something: Hammerfell was, up until around the end of the Great War, divided into two factions (technically three, but the third one is a small minority), known as the Forebears (progressive) and the Crowns (conservative/traditional). The two factions have, historically, been bitter enemies, often clashing - _however_, as detailed in 'The Great War', in 4E 173 a Forebear Army from Sentinel broke a Dominion Siege on Hegathe, a _crown_ city, leading to the _reconciliation_ of the two factions. In other words, Hammerfell was _united_. With that in mind, it was the ENTIRETY of Hammerfell that was (justifiably) outraged when the white gold concordat was signed, and the two former enemies _together_, combined with some 'deserters' of the Imperial army (again, detailed in the lore book) as well as the fact that Hammerfell is particularly well known for it's naval warfare, that allowed them to fight the Dominion to a standstill, at the cost of leaving most of southern Hammerfell utterly devastated. I hope some of you can begin to see where I'm going with this. Again, Hammerfell was UNITED. Now, let's look at Skyrim, 4E 201 You know what I see? _A Nation divided_. Sure, the (most likely temporary, and not exactly 'enforced' beyond the bare minimum) ban on Talos worship was widely hated by Nords - but only _half_ were pissed enough to rebel and try to claim independence. A nation divided. What do you think is gonna happen if the Stormcloaks win? Sure, Talos worship is again permitted within skyrim, religious liberty for all - but those other Nords? The ones that still support the Empire? They're not going to take it lying down. And, worst of all for the Stormcloaks, the Empire is still alive (fractured, but still alive) in the south and will NOT be willing to give up their providence that easily, and will most certainly be supported by the other half of the Nords, the ones who still want to remain part of the Empire. Here's evidence to support this: en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Stormcloak_Missive_(Fort_Neugrad). ua-cam.com/video/7x8sRkr4Bso/v-deo.html The Stormcloaks, FRESH from victory in a Civil war, where morale will likely be highest, but troops in need of rest and recover, will be fighting another war within a week, two tops, from the west, south... And, most likely, east. Yeah, Morrowind will very likely get involved. The improved morale for the Stormcloaks extends to it's more radical parties, the ones who really are the racist ***holes the stormcloaks have been accused of being, who will likely make things even worse for the Dunmer, Argonians, and other races, stretching the already tense racial relations to the point where things will snap. And the problem isn't that the Stormcloaks are racist (though, they do, indeed have more racists among them the Imperial leaning Nords), it's that their rhetoric of 'Skyrim for the Nords' (and their general nationalistic attitude) emboldens the racists that DO exist, making them come out of the proverbial woodworks and do stupid **** that makes any existing tensions even worse! As for Ulfric himself...Well, I have my doubts if he would really do anything to try and stop those extremists (He DID ban the Argonians from being within the city walls (frankly, we don't know how long the Argonians have been there; they could have been more free-roaming in the city before Ulfric took over, for all we know) and he hasn't done anything to improve the Dunmer's conditions, even though doing so would likely give them more incentive to help the Stormcloaks) Regardless, a 'Stormcloak' victory is a freakin' _powder keg that's just been lit_! And all that in fighting is EXACTLY what the Thalmor want. With an Imperial victory, on the other hand, the racial tensions, while still not necessarily great, will likely stabilize, if not outright improve a bit, and any Stormcloak remnants will only have themselves to turn to, unable to do little more than grumble and simply try to stay alive. And, more importantly, everyone will be ready for the Second Great War, the OPPOSITE of what the Thalmor want. I have a great deal of sympathy for the Ulfric Stormcloak and his army, truly, I do, but the rebellion is just making things worse. God, I hope I didn't come across as condescending in this little tirade...
TheTurtleWolf I love this analysis because this is exactly what I think after years of observations and countless hours of playing the game in the past (though I just started a new playthrough recently in anticipation of TESVI). Couldn't say it any better. The heart says Stormcloak but the mind says Imperial. The Thalmor is the bigger picture everyone needs to take into account when considering the long-term survival of Skyrim.
You just said exactly what i was thinking if the rebellion win the thalmor has an excuse to attack or to build more burocratic walls.( i imagine that if the rebelion win the thalmor will say that the empire is weak that it can't even deal with a "small" rebellion and will use as an excuse to do whatever they want) while on the other hand if the empire win it gains time to rebuild strength enough to stand up to the aldmeri dominion until an full scale rebellion against the thalmor (hopefully that's what will happen) is able to occur
TheTurtleWolf the empire actually gonna win, even if the player choose stormcloak, cyroodil actually had a backup plan. Theres a channel who do an analysis about the upcoming result of the war, some of the empire soldier already in the skyrim border for the backup plan. Why the stromcloak can keep up with the current civil war with the empire ?, it is becouse cyroodil just send tullius, not the real army. So what the stromcloak deal with is had the same status as them, that is a farmer. The imperial army in the skyrim was a former farmer same like stromcloak. Tullius him self ever said "if only i had my legion here in skyrim, the rebel would be wiped out within a week" so whenever the outcome is i think the empire gonna win
I mean the Empire wasn't really enforcing the ban on Talos worship until Ulfric got pissy about it and the Aldmeri Dominion stepped in. The Stormcloaks are just pawns anyways for the Thalmor to destroy the Empire, Talos' Empire.
The Imperials are more professional and have goals, they hate the thalmor as much as the common person, so I feel like siding with the Imperials, killing the stormcloaks and building Skyrim back up enough to then fight back against the thalmor
@@sambradley9091 the aldmeri dominion cant be so strong anyways, can they? they are just a bunch of goofs that use magic well or archery, and we all know the dagger is the best weapon in skyrim
What about making your own army out of all the followers you have, the Companions, the Dark Brotherhood, Theives Guild, some wizards from the College of Winterhold, use some ties from all of the holds because your a thane of all the holds to possibly get some help , and maybe even call a legion of dovas, to make your army to destroy the Thalmor in the greatest war of Tamerial. (screw the Blades)
Yeah man my characters are always morally “good” but do DB and TG questlines anyway simply so I have more power and influence over Skyrim. Gonna need it if all out war breaks out again.
ThePoison38 same, I am usually play a “good” warrior of the empire but do the dark brotherhood questline and kill the emperor because I feel like if I kill him it’s cannon for the next game in the series and I want to know what would occur after the games time period
@@goldberg5024 at The same time though Parthernaxx(idk how to spell his name)murdered thousands of innocent people in the past and it’s kind of bittersweet because you don’t want to kill him because he helped you but at the same time if you don’t you’re not avenging the innocent souls he’s killed.
Thijs Tharn To be fair, the Imperials ambushed the Stormcloaks outside Darkwater crossing (Stormcloak territory) and you got caught crossing the boarder at some point. So it's really neither sides fault.
Usual Stormcloak here. I’ve only played one save which was on the Empire’s side. Just to see what’s what. It was fun! Loved it. But let me explain my reasons for being a Stormcloak. 1. It’s not because I hate all races that aren’t Nords. I’ve played Dark Elves, Nords, Argonians, Khajiit who’ve all sided with the Stormcloaks. Sure, untraditional but whatever 2. The Stormcloaks at its point seems to want independence from an Empire that they feel has betrayed them and failed to do its job in protecting and serving the people of Tamriel. Kinda like that right to revolution thing. 3. Every province and people of Tamriel have a right to worship whomever they want. The Nords are very fond and firm in their belief of Talos. When an outside entity takes away your gods to worship. Things can get very hairy. Yes, even if playing a Dark Elf or Khajiit sometimes, I still believe in Talos. 4. I know the Empire really wants to get rid of the Thalmor. But, sad to say, they’re not really good at it. They’re the only reason why the Thalmor wander freely around Skyrim in *imperial* cities. In a Stormcloak run Skyrim, it’s hard to find them. 5. It is utterly dumb how some Stormcloaks treat other races, it is not right in the slightest. However, are we just going to completely forget that the Thalmor hate humans, and all races for that matter? I feel as if a unity between Stormcloaks and other races can be very beneficial to the cause. Everyone has a right to live and prosper in Skyrim if they so choose. Without persecution from both Nord or High Elf. Stormcloaks fight for the right of Talos back, and to rid the failing Empire from Skyrim. But I do agree. Had Tullius and Ulfric just sat down, they would have a lot in common. And a unity amongst Stormcloak warriors and Imperial legions would completely annihilate the true enemy of Skyrim, the Thalmor. I rest my case. Talos be with us. All hail to Ulfirc. Long live the Empire. Hail Sithis. Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal. Also.. I WASNT ON THE DAMN LIST!!!
You see, not many people side with the Imperials due to the Stormcloak influence at the beginning of the game which kinda bantered your decision in my opinion. Once you break down both, it becomes simple. You see, the Stormcloaks want to have Skyrim to their selves, meaning all beastfolk folk would be pushed out of Skyrim. The legion was kinda pushed into a deal with the Aldmeri Dominion as I see it, they simply did it for peace. The imperials want to let other folk into Skyrim, look at Windhelm, the Dark Elves are treated like dirt beneath your feet and the argonians aren't even allowed in the city, they reside on the docks. YET the Imperials want to take away the Nords right to worship their deity known as Talos, you see that was merely a deal with the Aldmeri Dominion to settle peace between the wavering land of Tamriel since they believed that a man cannot become a God. You see, Skyrim is similar to current events, really, but I changed the subject, now really what would you choose, Ulfric Stormcloak, a power-hungry man who was willing to kill a king just for the sake of a throne, or more or less General Tulius (more like Legate Rikke) to free the land of man who hates beastfolk. The imperials obviously wanted more power and then sided with the high elves and to protect Cyrodil but let's be real, the Aldmeri are just out for blood. In coclusion, I think we can all agree that the Thalmor are the problem. In the next game, we should be able to destroy the Thalmor in anyway possible.
AlyssaJennings the Imperials don't WANT to take away worship of Talos, they have to according to the White-Gold Concordat. Talos actually technically isn't even part of the Nordic pantheon, he's part of the former Imperial pantheon of Nine Divines. He was only very popular among the Nords being one himself. As soon as another war breaks out between the Empire and the Dominion the White-Gold Concordat becomes null, and the Thalmor would no longer be able to legally operate in the Empire. Then literally what argument do the Stormcloaks have against the Empire? Nothing.
I heard ulfric had a fair fight with the imperials and rightfully killed the king with shout, the empire got Mad and wrote up lies to arrest ulfric, and the empire allows elves to capture there own citizens, manu elves murders the citizens and practices necromancy on them, i also was on markarth and did a mission where i talked to one of the members of the foresworn, and they talked about how there young daughter had her had cut off and he was thrown in jail, i believe the stormcloaks is the best choice since they care for their own people and doesn't allow others to walk over them,stormcloaks doesn't allow there own citizens to be captured and used for necromancy. I side with stormcloaks in the game, the empire is traitorous,corrupt, and cowardly, doesn't accept defeat.
I don't remember.. In oblivion were the altmers so arrogant and unlikable as in skyrim? However it will depend on how much time the events of elder scrolls 6 will take after skyrim. And of course they have to decide if the rebellion will be successfull or not.
I respect both factions, they both have their arguments, but seeing the bigger picture I side with the Empire. Wish the civil war could have a diplomatic closing so we could avoid all those deaths
I've imagined a scenario where two blood brothers side with opposite factions, work their way up the ranks and then have a 1v1 that's similar to when Lucas was against Claus in mother 3. It would've been either heart wrenching, badass or both.
Wuuthrad (I think I spelt that right)? Wuuthrad does a ton of damage against Elvish foes. Plus, Dragonborn has the ability to ride dragons and control them plus have the Blades. I would say unlike all the other protagonist of the Elder Scrolls series, none control all the factions and dragons. His shouts may be blocked by the magical shield but it won't last long against a dragon.
In my first play of this game, I sided with the Imperials, the first guy you meet is very empathetic(?). He really feels bad for you. He feels bad for you, he saves you, after that, he gives you stuff... like... bro, that's a great guy.
7 years later and here I am with who knows how many play throughs sitting on the toilet trying to decide whether I should join the stormcloaks or the imperials
No jokes, that's me right now😂😂
AdrenaLine _ its not a hard decision. Its the question, do you want pointless fights, murder and social unrest. Join the empire, cuz even with ulfrics dead the issues why the empire sucked won’t stop so people keep fight for sovereignty. Tulius gives you the order to kill every stormcloaks in there camps after ulfrics dead, but all of them are nord warriors and by genociding them you help the elves, cuz the empire wasn’t strong enough to win against the elves in the first great war, so they will loose the second one too.
Damn same here
So Empire im a high elf too lol idk
Don’t listen to Floyd Lechner , he doesn’t seem to understand that one province alone cannot defeat the Thalmor and there’s no guarantee that Skyrim could forge an alliance with the Redguards.
A united empire has the best chance of defeating the Thalmor .
I side with that one chicken thats always in the middle of the street of riverwood.
that's op
and reports your crimes if you steal stuff? i'll never forgive that chicken wing.
You are worse than the Thalmor
He's more powerful than ulfric and tullius combined
They should vault him, he's to OP
Imperial or Stormcloack, we can all agree we wanna see the Thalmor BURN!
Damn Right! DEATH TO THE THALMOR!!!
"The second great war" is a great mod for that
Oh God, i especially hate them on that stupid Thalmor Embassy mission!
Lets just kill all high elves
Thalos is a false god filthy human. Pay your taxes.
forget the american elections, THIS is the most heated political debate
Yeh u right
Everything is already controlled by the deep state elites in America and total domination has been achieved. Politics do nothing but harm. But does the government have a technology to read people's minds yet? 🤔 As for me, ill just keep supporting the Empire! Empire is good for Skyrim and Tamriel
Doesn't matter who is president, the one who wins will always blame the Russians for intervening and supporting the other part. I mean, what does the Russians gain from having Trump as the president of the USA. Seriously? Barack Obama will probably be the last good president USA will ever have. The rest will only blame Russia and China for supporting the other party.
@@tntfreddan3138 Obama was a traitor you moron.
@@tntfreddan3138 Obama was the worst president he was not a good president at all
I think the stormcloaks have their hearts in the right place but ulfric isn't a good leader
Now whiterun guard #7 he's a different story
Ahh, yes. Be sure to thank your veterans.
I got to thinking, maybe I'm the dragonborn and I just don't know it yet.
Racism=Good
@Liam Dysart I understand but i thought ulfric is racist cuz in windhelm all the dark elves are living in the cramped space in the town not even cared for and in windhelm the first time you go in there you see some ulfric supporters bullying a dark elf just because and (i forgot his name but i think you know who) this guy in windhelm said that any argonian village or kajit caravan attacked ulfric doesn't even care even if the war is (technically) over
But he can't be an effective leader anymore. Not since his knee injury.
Screw then I’m siding with the almighty mudcrab faction
Hahahaha
Never, all about the #bluewingbutterflies
God bless the mudcrabs
Ive fought mudcrabs more fearsome than you!
my son brought home a mudcrab glory to the mud crabs
You follow the Stormcloaks at the start because the Imperials tried to execute you. You follow Hadvar the Imperial soldier because you liked the empathy Hadvar had for the player.
The beginning was a big reason why I sided with stormcloaks. Hadvar only said mere words and didn't stick up for someone that wasn't even supposed to be executed, letting an innocent life die is despicable. I found Ralof more empathetic as we were in the same boat (or wagon). I did think Hadvar was a good man and I might have even joined the imperials at first if he had enough empathy to do what was right. But now I'm just watching videos to see if there is an answer to which side is just.
hadvar was surroudned by imperial soldiers and attempting to help you flee or objecting would've just gotten him executed too.
not even mentioning the fact that ralof didn't even try to tell the soldiers that you weren't with them and just told you to shut up and accept your death.
@@roeko5701 Isn't hadvar,like. somewhat highly respected in the imperials? That must have at least SOME influence. He could've just said to put you in jail or put you on trial ( i know alduin comes and ruins the party shut up about alduin shut up about alduin shut up about alduin ) and you were knocked out before the game starts right? Because ralof says ' hey you, you're FINALLY awake ' which implies you didn't know what happened while you were knocked out. I am pretty sure that they tried to tell them that you weren't part of their little coalition but they didn't listen. But you can twist that however you want.
You always do. Imperial scum.
You always do
no? he's just a regular soldier in the legion and is there to present you a choice in the beginning whether to go with him or ralof. where did you get the highly respected thing from?
Hadvar didn't even attempt to defend you. With obvious reason, given how authoritarian the Empire is, but he questions you not being on the list, and gives a sincere apology for sentencing you to your death. Not a single suggestion or word to hold the axe for this stranger in the wrong place at the wrong time, not a single alternative solution which could benefit them, just utter compliance.
I really can't blame the guy. Hadvar is a good person, you can tell, but was bound by rules which restricted him from doing something about the situation. Understandably so. There was nothing he could do to stop his superiors. He had to leave me to die.
Going into Helgan Keep, an Imperial Settlement, in the middle of an attack from one of the most fearsome dragons in existence, and I chose Ralof immediately. He was a brother in chains, and one who kept you company before your death, not to mention assisted you in getting through the wreckage, just like Hadvar. But unlike Hadvar, I could trust him not to hand me over to the Legion.
I don't know of Hadvar's fate, but based on a few searches, it seems like he makes it out. Good for him.
I’m choosing Imperials and ONLY because Jarl Balgruuf is the 🐐
nahh but the jarl put in place when the stormcloaks take over 😍😍
Ofc u are here
Why are you here
It warms my soul that so many people have played this game honestly. It's made so many memories for me and I'm sure it has for millions of others
@@tobimcn ah yes the Skyrim equivalent of Joe Biden 😭😭
Me: *Joins the Stormcloaks*
Also me: *Is a high elf*
ultimate edgelord
obviously high
I’m a dark elf .-.
Matthew Varney Literally my new character lol
They aren’t racist to races that help them
The Empire tried to behead me.
It was a bad first impression.
Grizzly Coyote42 oh relax. They thought you were a bad guy. They were clearly wrong... or were they???
Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnn!!!
I mean they probably knew in advance... I joined the thieves guild and kill or pickpocket anyone I see
That was partly the stormcloaks fualt
The Dragonborn was just was at the wrong place at the wrong time
True
Join the imperials, win the war, kill the emperor, now neither of the sides get a good ending
Is killing the emperor a thing in Skyrim? I'd like to try it
@@SRK_223 do the dark brotherhood quest line (activate it by killing grelod the kind in the orphanage in riften then going to Aventus avenicci in windhelm and get a reward from him and then sleep in any bed)
@@benboy9554 I thought it was only a dawnstar bed lol
Robert Trahan IV me and my friends started a new walkthrough last week!
Daniel Botox for skyrim type beat
Be an imperial, and then do the dark brotherhood story line.
"I play both sides so I always come out on top"
Literally what I did lmao.
A man of great wisdom😂
You still end up helping the empire joining the brotherhood
XD
I did the Dark Brotherhood quest line before siding with the Imperials. It was so funny to hear them say "Long live the Emperor" knowing full well that I killed him.
I used to pick sides... But then I took an arrow to the knee.
Lol
I used to pick sides. until I took Thalmor to the heart
Karlan Jones lol
You have committed crimes against Skyrim and her people what do you say in you defense
Karlan Jones 😂
Be a High Elf
and join the StormCloaks.
Thug Life.
It could be a good role-playing Character lol
Morekæ SleZero Secret Thalmor agent? Best choice for an Altmer is siding with the Stormcloacks, or the Empire? Well, The Dominion wins anyway.
Baldons if I play high elf mage... this is exactly what I do xD
this is exactly my char lol, I fucking hate the thalmor, I feel like my character realised the arrogance of his own kind and now wants to destroy them
Morekæ SleZero I am a khajiit and I joined stormxloaks
Here's everything you need to know about the war.
Thalmor: No more Talos >:3
Empire: Okay
Empire: *whispers to Skyrim* you can still worship Talos, just do it quietly so we can appease these nerds until we're ready for war
Skyrim: *whispers to the Empire* Sounds fair m8
Ulfric: RAWR LOOK AT MEEEE I LOVE TALOS! FUCK THE ELVES!
You forgot to say that Ulfric was a Thalmor agent.
He was kidnapped
he wasn't a thalmor agent, just someone the Thalmor used. the Thalmor couldn't control Ulfric but because he was waging war on the empire and wasn't going to attack the Thalmor (Probably) the Thalmor was like "Meh if he becomes a pest we'll just kill him."
+Tem PlaYZ!!! Then explain why:
1. Ulfric and the Thalmor had established contact after the Great War?
2. Ulfric was cooperative to this direct contact?
3. Ulfric only became uncooperative after the Markarth Incident?
Who needs Talos when we have Akatosh?
General Tullius: "Are you ready to take the Imperial oath and swear loyalty to the Emperor?"
*Me who just finished the Dark Brotherhood questline and killed the Emperor* : 👁️👄👁️ "Yes"
well he didn't say *which* Emperor at that point, so you're still good, lol
The rightful emperor is the Dragonborn, kill the false emperor, fight for the empire, and inevitably take the throne of the empire, as it’s rightful emperor!
tbpf it's a completely new Emperor you're swearing loyalty to soooooo
His dialogue changes when you assassinated the emperor doesn't it?
Me who kills the emperor after swearing loyalty to him 👀
I'm on Paarthurnax's side...
Wise choice.
Me too
Good cause I'm against him X)
Salvianus is awesome
*****
-
Great, another person who's willing to die for Paarthurnax. But I'll battle when someone challenges me.
-
I don't side with the Stormcloaks, but I didn't exactly side with the Empire. I side with Jarl Balgruuf. I can never turn against the first man who ever believed in me. I'm on the side of Whiterun. The Stormcloaks are selfish.
"If you're referring to the civil war, I'm on the side of Whiterun."
Jarl Balgruuf is one of the greatest men in Skyrim. I would not throw him down for trying to protect his people.
+Elisabeth Hawke I won't lie to you Balgruuf is great, but we all know the greatest man in Skyrim is clearly Sigurd.
"I work for Belethor, at the General Goods store."
"Everything's for sale, my friend. Everything. If I had a sister, I'd sell her in a second!"
+Dream War "Do you get to the Cloud District often? Oh, what am I saying? Of course you don't."
*joins the empire*
LONG LIVE THE EMPEROR
*joins the dark brotherhood*
*slays the emperor*
hey there's that theory saying the emperor was the one sending the hit on himself.
in that sense you are serving the emperor the best way possible. creating a change in the government to improve it
Whoops 😈😇
FALL BEFORE THE MIGHTY EMPIRE! *In warhammer voice* BURN IN HOLY FIRE!
Unrelated, if anyone is playing with mods on this thread. Just found this mod called "levelers jewel" increases skill gained by 2000%. I know it takes away the grinding aspect but just a lil shortcut if you want.
Ouch spoiler
my only struggle with choosing the stormcloaks is jarl balgruuf. i gonna miss him.
he was nice, but he's not dead
At least Maven won’t be the Jarl of Riften.
Feels so weird having stormcloaks as guards in Whiterun.
*Madanach has entered the chat from the Gray Quarter*
@@iarrived731 but than thonar who could be worse than maven becomes jarl of markarth.
" and I said to the lady " THATS NOT A HORKER THATS MY WIFE " -CISCERO
Underrated comment.
..I love that one!
I side with the dragons
The only one that one's to survive ,me too
Join the chicken empire.
Putridfoe 65 if u touch them, u die.
Xtremeswag YT I mean the dragon born is technically brothers with the dragons
Yeah I bet the Dragons Could Probably fuck up The Elves
"Damn faithless imperials".
- A Windhelm guard that imprisoned me for accidentally shouting "Fus".
Correction: Thus
Just figured you'd wanna hear that after 9 months 🙃
@@dalerife8101 What? He was clearly saying Fus, which is a first word of the Shout "Unrelenting Force"
@@dalerife8101 he was right
@@dalerife8101 It's fus. To be fair, the first time I played skyrim I misheard it as well. I thought the Dragonborn was shouting "BOOF"
@@dalerife8101 Have you ever played skyrim? Cause he's clearly right.
During the negotiation mission, I've always wanted to say:
"Ulfric Stormcloak, your heart lies with your people, and that is most commendable. You wish the best for the people of this land, and you wish them freedom from their oppressors, yet your heart clouds your mind. You fail to see the bigger picture, and how that instead of fighting against the Empire you see as evil, you should prepare yourself for the coming fight against your common enemy.
General, you sit on the other side of this coin. You can see what will come with the fall of the Empire in Skyrim, you can see the Dominion laying waste to this land shall you fail in your duty. But you do not acknowledge the smaller side of things, of how the worship of Talos lies at the soul of the Nordic people, and to take that away is a greater blow to them than any weapon that could be convinced.
And to you, Agents of the Aldmeri Dominion...
Go f*ck yourself"
-The Dragonborn
Too many words, the Dragonborn is limited to two, maybe three sentences max
@@rhett6946 true.
Correction: You should both stop or I'll make you
Tulius and Ulfric: Ok
@@ARC--5973 much more like Bethesda XD
That's what Torig would've said if he didn't murder his king & usurp his throne 2
@@ARC--5973 correction: You should stop or I’ll make you (Intimidate)
I don't understand why the dragon born can't make his own empire
Like wouldn't it be awesome to raise your own army and bring them to a stormcloaks vs. Imperials battle and cause a three army battle? Maybe ES6?
Caden Grossman I would say due to lore reasons.
hey fuck you and that flag
Charlotte Stewart Fuck you and your demand for anarchy
Charlotte Stewart calm down and just thought of something
Because the Dragonborn is in Apocrypha
I pick side of Alduin, if not him attacking Helgen, you as the Dragonborn is dead forever
I Named my character Darth Alduin II
Or, if Alduin didn't exist, dragonborn will die.
Or the Drgaonborn was on the carriage doing a crime or ambushed.
Well that is clearly just excellent timing on the people who sealed hims part. :) AND if you are being technical the ritual did exactly what it was supposed to... Send him forward in time to someone who could kill him. He is sent forward, directly in front of someone who can kill him a dragonborn.
he fumbled the bag for himself wym😂all he had to do was decide to attack helgen a day later and all of his plans would have came to fruition
Wish i could form my own army instead of picking a side. Bring all the houscarls and mercs for battles.
I agree. Bring the thiefs guild, dark brotherhood, the blades, mages guild, companions and that random kid in the street who's invincible.
Also Serana and the doggos of Dawngaurd
Yeah we would dominate
All the 9 yr olds
And an army of Reiklings
I'm aware that this video is 5 years old but I wanted to add that if you side with the Imperials and kill Ulfric before heading to Sovengarde in the main quest you can find Ulfric there which implies he did indeed keep his honor. Also that has to be an awkward afterlife having Torygg and Ulfric basically spend eternity together.
You can also find Legate Rikke
I don't think torygg is mad at ulfric
I think that may say a lot. If you think about the idea of ulfric just being power hungry and all of the jazz, Ulfric would have been truky honourless given he's lying to the people he swore to be defending. Everything he was doing would have been for a very selfish reason. It goes to say that Ulfric was speaking the truth and was probably doing what he knew he only could do. All in all, I still side with the Imperials due to the fact that they do plan on going to war with the Thalmor just as Ulfric would have wanted. They were trying to keep some peace so that they could appease the Thalmor while sharping the blade they'll use to stab them in the back.
Not at all awkward. There's no personal animosity there. Ulfric killed him in fair combat (I say that even as someone who sides with the imperials literally every play through), and even so the idea of honour seems most important within Nord culture and killing someone "fairly" seems less personal (again, just as long as it's honourable). It's like with Roggvir and captain aldis. There was nothing personal between them, just two men doing what they thought was right. No personal vendettas or hatred or anything. If anything, svaknir and Olaf one-eye would be an awkward eternity, but even then Olaf is ready to greet him with open arms
@@theace8502Didn’t he use the shout? The shout he learned from the greybeards? Who have to take an oath to not use it for violence?
Random stormcloak soldier: "can't wait to kill another imperial"
Me, an imperial race:👁👄👁
That is y ur a dumbster after all
@@brendanbogotto8976 ok boomer
@@profitsmash672 laughs in stormcloak victory canon
@Deathman Prime - Nice joke but do you know what’s even funnier ?
Ulfric Stormcloak thinking Skyrim can beat the Thalmor on its own !😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@Valencetheshireman927 correction. The dragonborn can beat the thalmor on its own
all of these comments have distracted me from the actual video
Same here. They’re so interesting and witty
Exactly...
i am youre 200th like
Stormcloaks: Prejudiced against Dark Elves, starting a civil war during an already tenuous time, overthrew government violently rather than diplomatically.
Imperials: Disallowing freedom of religion, siding with the Thalmor, making Skyrim a province of the Empire rather than an independent free state.
This was a great choice they gave to the player. Way better than most moral choices which are like, "Do you want to save the babies or eat the babies?"
Hahahahaha that last part is so true. Games be like “do you wanna start the Auschwitz shower or free everyone from it” hmMmMmMmM moRaL cHOiCe
Skyrim was already a province of the Empire so you got one thing wrong, oh and they allow freedom of religion So you got two things wrong. Shit you got three things wrong, Empire never sided with Thalmor
The Empire never disavowed "freedom of religion," and the talk about Talos worshipers being "grabbed in the night by the Thalmor" is rebel propaganda. The Thalmor guard at Northwatch Keep even tells you that the only way one of their prisoners may be freed is "by ORDER (his emphasis) of the Imperial Legion." Note: He says "by the Imperial Legion" and not "by the Empire," meaning that the Thalmor in Skyrim are obligated to answer to General Tullis, the military governor of the province.
As someone already said, Skyrim is already a province of the Empire. It is not a "free state" and especially not under the usurper "High King" Ulfric.
Most importantly, the Empire never, ever sided with the "Thalmor" (the Aldmeri Dominion). On the contrary, General Tulius even refers to "Ulfric's little rebellion" as "a mere side show, before the main event against the Dominion resumes."
Ulfric's enemy is the Empire. The Empire's enemy is the Dominion. The rebels should be seen as little more than indirect pawns of the Dominion, being used to weaken the Empire.
@@briansheehan3430 so you are with the empire?
@@satvikgarg3965 Yes.
I wish we had the option to show the Thalmor Dossier to both Ulfric and Tullius during the conference at High Hrothgar.
Yeah, or even tell Balgruuf about how Tullius intends to trick him.. if only they worked out a system where you could share information better with npcs
Duuuuuude, that would've been so cool
If Bethesda wasn't lazy on Skyrim that probably would've been a thing tbh
@@onemanarmysswampparty They werent exactly lazy, they had to cut half of the game's content to meet the gimick deadline of 11/11/11, had we not had that deadline the game wo
@@Sprite897 i see what you did there
I sided with the imperials because of the way Ulfric treated the other races of skyrim. And the Stormcloak Cuirass made me look fat.
JustProud
No one:
You: Does this Cuirass make me look fat?
ZqR Gaming this comment is so unappreciated
Ye But imperial armour gives you the most unflattering skirt ever
I don't want to join the stormcloaks because their racist assholes.
@@leepoppop5523 Yeah. I'm all for Skyrim's independence, and would fight for it, but their attitude of "Skyrim for the Nords" seems to extent dangerously past the Thalmor and towards innocent races when, ironically, the Nords weren't the first ones in Skyrim.
Why pick a side when you can SLAUGHTER THE THALMOR
Amen to that.
hey, i just got you to 69 likes, i got your back bro
Agreed
Why stop there when you can slay everything
@@sr.trolling a little bloodthirsty there buddy?
"You can't fight the elves alone."
My level 1000 emo Shrek with a wooden sword that does 1300 chaos damage per hit with so much moon sugar they're an extra-terrestrial planet begs to differ.
We've all seen the emo Shrek video. Orcs are the best race to choose
@@beamerboy- Indeed
Who would win?
A race with superior magics that live a very long life and almost win a war against the biggest empire in tamriel
Or
One dragon boi with potion of fortify restoration
Best comment so far
@@Ivnnih2774 with this technique is pretty easy to hit kill alduin with a dagger
I think Sybille Stentor summed it up best on why I chose the Empire, despite having strong sympathies to the Stormcloaks: "Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire."
Very nice, nailed it
The empire, who won a major victory. Surrendered after they thought they’d lose the war, they betrayed Skyrim and also hammerfell who actually won their war against the dominion. The imperials are the epitome of milk drinkers that would rather sell out their allies for a chance to live on their knees than die on their feet. They cannot be trusted and are incapable of wielding power, so we will crush them from our lands and take up arms with our allies hammerfell and high rock with the help of the dragon born and his ability to control dragons, with the axes of the Stormcloacks, the curved swords and skilled art of combat of the redguards, the magical prowess of the Bretons and the godly given power of the dragon born we would crush the dominion and accomplish what the empire can’t or won’t do. Tamriel needs strong leaders not weak ones.
@@ThemoonsFullofgoons-qn9xl Hammerfell and the Redguards would have fallen at the beginning of the Great War had it not been for the Imperial Legionnaires that was present in their lands when the armies of the Aldmeri Dominion came to take Hammerfell, lol.
Only reason why the Aldmeri Dominion failed is because the Empire was able to buy time for the Redguards to get their crap together and form an actual defense.
Now whether or not Hammerfell and the Redguards can survive the Aldmeri Domion...The army the Aldmeri Dominion sent to Hammerfell was much weaker than the army they sent to take Cyrodiil. And yet, again, Hammerfell nearly fell, again, were it not for the Imperial Legion currently in Hammerfell. Meanwhile, the greatest army the Aldmeri Dominion sent to Cyrodiil was wiped out. That should tell you the power between the two and that Hammerfell isn't as strong as Cyrodiil and the Empire, if you think otherwise, well... It's nice to have dreams.
@@imperialtrooper927 so why did they surrender that’s the whole point imperials helped the redguards take back hammerfell nords helped the empire take back cyrodil and yet the empire still surrendered when we was all winning they betrayed everyone in the final moment the redguards and the nords certainly weren’t ready to give up which ties back into my original point the world needs stronger leadership not cowards who will sell everyone out
@@imperialtrooper927 the empire cannot be trusted they can’t win without us but even with us they fail us
"You can't fight the elves by yourselves"
[Ysgramor and his 500 madlads have entered the chat]
Different times, and that was the Falmer too. Not all elves
@@joynelbonetdelgado4952 falmer were the snow elves at the time when ysgramor and the 500 companions fucked them up
[Pelinal Whitestrake and his *laser canon* has entered the chat along with a demigod’s head]
To be fair...
1. Ysgramor & his 500 were Atmorans, which are bigger & more beefy than the Nords we know.
2. Azhidal (pretty much an enchanting God) helped the 500 with his powerful-ass enchantment.
Pelinal laughs with exterminating millions of elves by himself along with a flying demi-god
If what Ulfric did was honor-less then why is it possible to see him in Sovngarde?
+Psycho Zebra Because he fought for what he believed until the very end.
+HumanOfPrey which is honourful.
393Xarne Wouldn't the hell equivalent be Oblivion?
Oblivion is hell, as Sovengard is paradise. I admire how much Skyrim is based off on the Germanic-Roman war. Hence, why I am on Stormcloaks(Germanic) side
***** But he wasn't honorful.
I wonder if Elder Scrolls VI has a questline involving a second great war with the Thalmor
I pay 100 bucks for this expansion if it is really available
In the next game they should bring the thalmor plotline to a climax point(like a big war as you said) if not outright conclude it. If they keep slowly building it up like in skyrim it will be boring.
there's actually a mod that adds a war with the thalmor
I hope it does
its not like Todd was being very subtle in Skyrim with his constant hinting at the Thalmor being the main antagonists of TES6
Let´s not forget that the real WRONG choice is to not choose a side, cuz that is what the Thalmore want, to keep the war going so that neither the legion or the nords are strong enough to defend themselves when the Thalmore finally tries to conquer all of Tamriel. That´s why the Thalmore were trying to interfere on Ulfric execution at the beginning of the game.
They need to unite and fight against the Thalmor. Problem solved.
Ergo, side with the Imperials, who are, in fact, trying to keep things unified for fighting the Thalmor.
Why just stormcloak n empire? Ya also got morrowind and argonia.
+Lazy Guy Unless they're attacked directly, the Argonians won't take part in the wars of Tamriel. The only people the Argonians have attacked in millennia were the Dunmer, and that was for revenge for centuries of slavery. And with the Argonians possibly occupying the southern part of Morrowind, their civilization just beginning to rebuild itself, and the fact they're likely still bitter at humanity for abandoning them during the Oblivion Crisis/ the Argonian invasion, the odds of the Dunmer fighting the Dominion is next to none.
+HumanOfPrey The dunmer aren't fond of the khajits, but argonians... ur right on that
I absolutely HATE the Thalmor.
"You cant fight the elves by yourself"Hammerfell: hold my beer
Hammerfell didn't beat the Dominion, they fought them to a standstill and asked for a treaty, after which the Dominion left willingly.
Post Dragonborn DLC Skyrim would roflstomp the Thalmor, the Last Dragonborn is essentially an unstoppable force, with his Dragon summons, Fus Ro Dah, possible assistance from the Daedric Princes you entertain/assist, Bend Will, Dark Brotherhood and maybe even bringing back Dragon Priests/Miraak back to fight via Necromancy.
The Last Dragonborn in Lore should be capable of Shattering Continents.
+Fusion Zamasu
The Dragonborn can do that...in your fanfic
HumanOfPrey in Canon Lore, Miraak managed to bring Solstheim off of the mainland with a shout, Alduin was a threat to all of TES verse and Dragonborn beat him.
Lord LDB is one of the strongest none divine/daedric.
+Fusion Zamasu
One warrior, no matter how tough, can't beat an entire army. Even Pelinal Whitestrake couldn't do that and he was a Shezarrine (an avatar of Lorkhan).
I just realised that Bethesda made an amazing fucking game dude.
Nathan /NeisanTheBear\ well you're late to the party
hail Bethesda,
the ones who can break the entire community about civil war, INSIDE THE VIDEO GAYME!!!
XD
btw, ill go for ULFRIC!
Nathan /NeisanTheBear\ you realized that about 6 years too late
Itsyaboi Wolfie you realize that youre a month too late.
Nathan /NeisanTheBear\ wtf you can't be late to comment on something dude, btw this video was uploaded in 2015 so you're late too
A good king isn't one who seeks war, but is one who is prepared for it.
Tell that to lelouch vi motherfucking Britannia
@@GodlyDra i mean yea he was a king but didn't think of being a "king". He just wanted to gather all the hate he can and then peaced out.
@@skullknight6584
Don’t change the fact that he was the best king/emperor/god possible for that scenario
“A wise king never seeks out war, but must always be ready for it” -Odin
You wrong, " If we go soft on corruption goverment it'll grow". Somebody got to stop that. And it"ll be The Ulfric high king
They should stop focussing on the racism between Imperials and Nords and start focusing on the racism between Humans and Khajiit and Argonians.
thijs piggelen No, everyone is always suspicious of them.
I feel the dunmer have gotten less racist after understanding what the argonians have gone through
don't forget the bad blood between the dunmer and argonians
Theres tons of bad blood between all races xD it can be overcome
+SeaBiscuit dude the elves are the supreme racists of the elder scrolls
My Proposal: The Empire is necessary for fighting the Thalmor. The Stormcloak Rebellion (However justified in motive imo) is weakening the Empire. (This is why I might support the Empire.) If I was the Emperor, I would make the Stormcloaks a special unit in the army to take out the Thalmor. If they agreed to do this, I'd allow Ulfric to be the High King and let Nords rule themselves, ie. worship Talos (Even if it has to be done secretly).
That's pretty smart actually. If only they joined forces against the elves. I always play as stormcloak because I hate general tulious. He's a self-righteous, racist tyrant.
Racist is slightly ironic, given Ulfric and the Stormcloak's treatment of... everyone who isn't a Nord? I play as a dark elf in my current playthrough and myyyyyy goshhhhh it doesn't end.
you guys are all looking at this the wrong way. what matters is not who wins a hypothetical war in the approximate future. What matters is wether or not the Thalmor (not the aldmeri dominion, just the Thalmor) will be able TO END THE WORLD. Thats right, because of how gods work in skyrim they think that if they can control the faith of mortals, they can control the gods. They want Talos out of the way, wich is why they want all belief of talos to end wich will effectively kill the divine (its how it works for them) and ultimately control the god of Time, Akatosh, so they can revert time back before the first era, when elves were immortal gods and were not cursed with mortality, and humans didnt exist. This is far beyond shitty conflicts. Siding with the empire is siding against humanity and against the world. I dont like racist nords, i hate ulfric, i know he's just an egotistical power junkie that doesnt give a turd about others, but this is just how things are.
I just simply can't see how the Stormcloaks could possibly stand a chance against the Thalmor. I hate the Thalmor and what they stand for as much as the next Dragonborn, I'm sure ;) haha, but the Stormcloaks can't even defeat the Imperials (not really, they basically lost the war at the start of the game if Alduin hadn't arrived). And the Imperials don't really like the Thalmor anyway, but they are far too weak to fight them off, as broken up as the Empire is fighting the Stormcloaks. The White-Gold Concordat ended the last war, but only barely. It's an obviously temporary thing. I truly believe that the Empire would fight the Thalmor given the chance and likelihood of success. The Stormcloaks are simply giving the Thalmor everything they want by weakening the Empire, and weakening Skyrim.
This is actually a great plan
While I agree with the Stormcloaks more I see the need for a united empire. As most imperials still believe in Talos anyways and would overturn the ban in a heartbeat once the elves are beaten.
You say that, but you also have to take into account that the Nords have to fight for what they believe in or they ain’t going to sovengarde
@@shuwamppp7300 What if they believe in the Empire which was founded by Tiber Septim who ascended into godhood as Talos?
@@shuwamppp7300 I mean, when you enter sovngarde to fight Alduin, you can see it holds Nords who fought for either faction, so it doesnt matter which faction you choose, you just have to be a Nord and go down fighting
@@shuwamppp7300 Fighting against the Empire in the name of the man(later God suck it elves) who established said Empire seems contradictory
@@michaelhowze8198 not necessarily, not if that "Empire" isn't the same exact Empire now currently during Skyrim that he originally founded. especially since it's been weakened, corrupted, and infiltrated by the Nazi Elves. tho i can kinda understand WHY the Thalmor hate Talos since he truly was somewhat evil by being a tyrant and conquering other provinces in Tamriel that didn't WANT to be conquered, having an affair with Barenziah and then forcing her to abort his baby that she became pregnant with👶☠️😢💔 possibly killed his good friend/trusted advisor Culuthan behind his back, using that ginormous Numidium robot given to him as a gift from the Dwarves, to commit a genocide from what I've heard. but anyways, in my honest opinion, Talos would be ASHAMED of the current "Empire" during TES V: Skyrim
It's been less than a month since I first dipped my toes into the multiverse of Skyrim, and I must say. I have enjoyed every nanosecond of it.
For the longest time I sided with the Stormcloaks. Religious freedom and power to the people and all that. But as I got older I really started to look at both sides and realized a few things. First the foremost, Stormcloaks are racist as hell. They constantly stream Skyrim is for the nords. They treat the Argonians and Dark Elves like trash around their city. Not to mention the fact that there are several hints and at times direct quotes that suggest Talos was still being worshiped in Skyrim until Ulfric made it an issue. Most importantly, there are also hints that the Imperials do not plan on submitting to the Thalmor forever. They needed to stop and recoup from the war, and have full intentions to 'rebel' against them once they feel ready, and Ulfric is just prolonging that. The final point I'm going to make is that the Stormcloaks, by themselves, do not stand a chance against the Thalmor if they were to invade. The Thalmor has been defeating entire empires, one little province isn't going to stand a chance. I could go on and on about this all day, but I really feel when you stop and look at the two sides, the Imperials are the clear choice in the long run.
Or, you know, you could just side with the Imperials because Balgruuf is easily the best Jarl.
Doug Courtney Stormcloaks is just like fallout’s brotherhood of steels while empire is enclave
My ancestors are smiling at me imperial, can you say the same?
*Reads a whole paragraph* : Not convinced
*Clicks Read More* : Long live to the Empire
Doug Courtney Uhh Just saying Dark Elves are pretty damn racist themselves according to the lore. Not only that but they are refugees that were allowed to live in Skyrim making them citizens but once asked to defend Skyrim they refused.
I’m not justifying the Nords actions I think they’re wrong but the whole “Stormcloaks are racist” as an argument when literally EVERY other nation in Tamriel is racist just makes no sense.
@@zachrobinson6801 exactly imagine a group of outsiders coming out of nowhere to live in your country and refuse to protect or provide any benefit to it while also posing a threat to its tradition and your culture
My case for the stormcloaks: “forget the list, he goes to the block.”
Caecilius Gaming dumbass
@@Anthony-ig9kj not really a dumbass as first impressions are really important in life as well as games and bad ones like that can really make a person loathe something and make them look for things that supports their already idea instead of trying to see the bigger picture with a open mind. And no no one in their right mind is going to forgive someone that gave them the death order and by extension the place that they worked for which is why a lot of people went against the imperials because of a bad first impression. And i am sure if the king found out about that in the first place he would have had that person executed like i say and can't stress enough first impressions means a lot and it could literally mean life or death
Well with live another life. You don’t go to the chopping block. So you have to sit back and see who is right.
General Tulius captured you while you were in the same area as Ulfric's top rebel Lieutenants. Perhaps they believed you were affiliated somehow.
What's worse is the rebels KNOWING you weren't affiliated with them, yet saying nothing of your innocence and willing to let you die with them.
I did the Dark Brotherhood quest line once, and I was upset after killing Emperor Meade II.
The man was a hero of The Great War and destroyed the Dominion's Army, and he embraced death with a sense of honor Ulfric only wishes he had. I gladly accepted his request to kill Motierre, and every play through after that I destroyed the Dark Brotherhood for the Penitus Oculatus.
@@briansheehan3430 the imperials would come to their conclusions where the stormcloaks supported you or not honestly if the carriage driver were smart he would have spoke up about how the horse thief and you aren't associated with the stormcloaks because they're going to their death and asking what your name is. Really like i said stormcloaks claiming you weren't with them flat out would be really damming "support".
My Cousin's out fighting Dragons , and what do I get ? Guard Duty ... 😂
Never gets old 😂
Lol
Your so funny hahaha kill me
The Dragonborn: *Gasp* Cousin?!
“I used to be an adventurer like you, *THEN I TOOK AN ARROW TO THE KNEE* “
I get that they probably didn't have time for it, but I would have liked them to give the player several chances to flip sides. I think that would have been an interesting thing RP-wise. Kinda bummed that you only get one chance to change side which is right at the beginning of the quest line. Mid-way betrayal after learning more about the details of Civil War and questioning your reasoning for joining either side would have been a cool mechanic.
I just like the color blue okay?
i have many reason to side with them
1 freedom of religion i worship hircine and the Reclamation dunmer
2 blue Alba gu bràth Scotland forever nords are as close to scotland as they can get
and i mostly play dunmer
Freedom of religion as longs as you are a nord
Lmao when I played Skyrim first I chose imperials cuz they were my favorite color
Are we moral enemy’s since my favorite color is red
CommanderM117 no, you are free to worship anyone in the Empire, as long as they aren’t a man.
i joined the empire but just for JARL BALGRUUF
all hail jarl ballin'.
Mans1ay3r jarl balgruuf rap
Ballin
It was so sad for me when Jarl Balgruuf decided to side with the empire. I couldn't join the empire for him,
Hell yeah!!
My first playthrough was with the stormcloaks, my heart broke into pieces when ballin' said he was dissapointed lmao
Thalmor: Talos worship is outlawed! Make sure this is carried out, or the so called "Empire" will be erased from Tamriel!
Empire: Yes, my superiors...
- A few days later -
Skyrim: Is it okay if we worship Ta-
Empire: SHH! You can do it in "secret". Just don't expect us to save you when you're found out.
Skyrim: Thank you!
- A few more days later -
Heimskr: TALOS THE MIGHTY! TALOS THE UNERRING! TALOS THE UNENDING! WE PRAISE HIM, FOR HE WAS ONCE MAN, BUT NOW, HE IS DIVINE!
Dragonborn: Shut the hell up, or I'll gut you for getting Whiterun in trouble!
Heimskr: WE ARE LETTING THE ELVES TAKE OUR FREEDOM, BUT WHAT NEXT? OUR HOUSES? OUR CHILDREN? OUR VERY LIVES!?
Dragonborn: No, but I'll do the last one.
Heimskr: TALOS TH- wait what? (Gets shouted into a Dustman's Carin, then gets chased by Draugr to Fort Greymoor,where he gets kidnapped and on the trail, but then Giants launch the escort,killing Heimskr.
_Alternate Ending_
Dragonborn: Shut the hell up,or I'll gut you for getting Whiterun in trouble!
Heimskr: THE ELVES HAVE TAKEN OUR FREEDOM,BUT WHAT NEXT? OUR HOUSES? OUR CHILDREN? OUR VERY LIVES!?
Dragonborn: Aaagh! I warned you, and now your time is limited.
- A few days later, at night-
(Heimskr is sleeping in his bed, but then Odahviing breaks through Heimskr's house's roof, and carries him to the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, where he is tortured by Cicero for several days, until he is bound and gagged. Cicero gives him to Vampires, so he can be turned into a stage 1 vampire. He is then taken to the Dawnguard, and has his bones broken by armoured trolls, and his limbs are chewed off by Huskies. He is finally killed by Isram and his snide remarks,but ends up on the Shivering Isles, and Sheogoratg turns him into a toilet, and shall be forced to literally eat sh*t for the rest of his life.)
Empire: Here's your payment, Dragonborn.
+Shou くん光武 INTO THE ASSES OF ELVES!
Anyone get that? No? Well fuck you.
+Dylan Rodriguez Yeah, that guy really didn't get the message.
+Dylan Rodriguez TALOS THE BADASS SNAKE-DEMON-THING KILLER
Although I sympathise with the stormcloaks, I always got the impression that it was the wrong choice tactically for all of Tamriel since the empire would be weakened relative to the Thalmor.
But then I started thinking... The empire is dying, and it has been ever since Martin Septim. In my own headcanon the Dragonborn, after saving the world, becomes such a popular demigod of a person that he spearheads the beginning of a new empire. Like the rebirth of Talos himself, with Skyrim at his back.
In my headcanon the Dragonborn becomes the Highkind of Skyrim and uses his influence and power to be declared the next Cyrodiil Emperor , because c'mon, Tiber was a Dragonborn, and so is the MC. They are both descendants of Akatosh and thus deserve to rule. Now give me my amulet and my mf crown or else I kill you all same I did with the world ending dragon.
So is the Dragonborn going to create a new empire or legion or will he side with ulfric and try to fight the dominion
@@XLucas54 One scenario could be that he wins over elements of the legion AND the stormcloaks to his side, perhaps convincing legionnaires and officers that they swore an oath to the emperor but as the dragonborn he is the only true emperor.
Otherwise he sides with the stormcloaks and declares himself emperor, with Ulfric as High King supporting him, and marches on Cyrodiil. It would be the start of a new dynasty, so technically a new empire.
This would all be based on the Dragonborn having the sheer popular support of the people who rever him/her for saving the world.
@@aurelmatthews4164 thats a dope concept for Elder Scrolls 6
@@jasperwhat5033 but es6 will take place in a different continent.
There are journals and notes in the Thalmor embassy that say Ulfric is their asset. Ulfric said he escaped after he was captured in the Great War. The journals say the Thalmor let him escape and played him for the fool he is. By starting the civil war he played directly in the Thalmor's hands, because it would weaken the empire, maybe even give them an excuse to root out followers of Talos. As long as the civil war continues or ends up in the favor of the Stormcloacks the Thalmor are happy.
Delphine suspected the Thalmor to be behind the dragons because it allowed Ulfric to escape Helgen and continue the war. Aside from demanding the death of Paarthurnax, she is actually pretty smart and well informed.
Very true, good observation.
No, wrong. The Thalmor never intended for Ulfric to actually win the civil war. Their entire plan revolves around him weakening the Empire, then losing and being executed. Anyone who sides against Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.
+XCHAP YEG If Skyrim is no longer part of the Empire it will still weaken it. You see, Skyrim will no longer send resources to the Empire like food coin weapons and soldiers. Hammerfell left the Empire earlier too, so nothing from them either. The Thalmor divided them, next they will conquer. The AD took the Imperial city even with their help in the Great War. Now without them it will be a breeze. Especially since the Aldmeri Dominion had time to rebuild their army and resources to full strenght, while the Imperials were fighting in Skyrim. Maybe the Dragonborn can do something about the Thalmor and the AD. If it's up to "High King" Ulfric however, then I'll have some serious doubts. The Empire might help out Hammerfell if the AD declares war on them although that also depends on what the details in the White-Gold Concordat treaty are. If the AD declares war on the Empire and both Hammerfell and Skyrim decide to stay out of it, then the next emperor will be an elf.
***** There is no way Skyrim would ever sit out a war against the Dominion. Hell, the Stormcloaks long term plan IS to end the Dominion.
+XCHAP YEG The Empire and the Stormcloaks were at war and Skyrim even had a dragon crisis. They must have lost a lot of resources (men and coin). Even if Ulfric is willing and going to help the Empire in the next war against the AD, he still wouldn't contribute much. Skyrim needs time to rebuild and they won't have that if the Thalmor played their cards right. If they have then a fresh AD stands on their border ready to invade. A united Empire without internal struggle wasn't enough to stop the AD in the Great War. Unless the Dragonborn with dragon friends steps in, weakened Empire and Skyrim doesn't stand a chance against the AD. Even Tiber Septim needed the Brass God to defeat them. Actually now that I think about it, I don't think helping either side in the civil war would help keep the AD at bay. Ulfric never should have started the civil war in the first place. I still prefer the Imperials because Ulfric doesn't think things through and would make for a horrible king.
*Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for nuclear winter*
Oh sorry wrong game.
Lol
@Tak4shi patrolling skyrim almost makes you wish for a dragon to attack
Tyler Morris dragons are a nuisance at the later levels
@@glassofwater281 yeah the r annoying when u have to fight two of them at the same time while accidentally hitting a chicken
Lol, try living in the Mojave
Sure sure, we could talk all day about who's right or wrong, Imperials, Stormcloaks, Thalmor, Dragons..
But regardless of what or who you are, there is one thing the entirety of Skyrim and perhaps even all of Tamriel and Nirn can agree with.
Nelkir dies as soon as he opens his mouth.
An- *SHANK*
Another wanderer here to lick my father's *BALLS*
Too bad they're gone
I always have to side with the Imperials. At first it was just because I absolutely love the Roman aesthetic, but the more I got into the lore, the more I realized they're the best choice. The greatest display of this is in the fact that within several months of arrival, General Tulius already captured Ulfric. And it's not like he accomplished this with several veteran legions; no, this was accomplished by legions made up of untested Nordic warriors only recently raised to fight this rebellion. If Ulfric could barely handle this, there's no way he could handle the Empire, let alone the Dominion, at full strength.
It's also fairly evident that while Ulfric is passionate, he's not a very good leader. He is overly vicious and barbaric (as displayed by his actions during the Markarth Incident). He prioritizes his own impatience over prudence and forethought (as displayed by his actions in murdering High King Torygg instead of talking). He is dishonorable (as displayed by his misuse of a power like the Voice in a duel). He is arrogant and self-centered (as displayed by how he responds to General Tulius's warnings about the Thalmor if you side with him and fight to Solitude). It is evident that he is not the right choice for High King, let alone Jarl of an entire Hold.
and add on the fact during the negotiation section of the main story. when the greybeards hold a council, to negotiate a truce so jarl balgruff can aid the dragonborn, and prioritise the dragon threat.
Ulfric instantly goes to antagonising the Thalmor ambassador and worse immediately proceeds to make petty demands for more territory, from the imperials, and threatening to storm off like a child when he doesnt get what he wants.
treating the Truce negotiation as a Powergrab attempt instead of prioritising Skyrims Safety against alduin and the dragons.
The Thalmor either way would get fucked if an Imperial or an Stormcloak victory is achieved. Ulfric though being a former agent of the thalmor would try to banish them aswell because let’s be fair everybody hates the damn Thalmor they are as racist arrogant and tyrannical as the Stormcloaks. 2nd you would have to see that almost every leader except balgruuf in skyrim is absolutely arrogant and barbaric for example the imperials trying to immediatly execute you without knowing your history or for example Noster in Solutide when he tells you how he was left alone by other imperial soldiers in battle to be killed
So to be fair yes Imperials do have more morals politically but in things like battle, the stormcloaks are way more brotherly and actually mourn the deaths of many of those that fell, coming back to racism it’s true that the Nord or Stormcloaks have a prejudiced against dark elves, but even that doesn’t stop you from becoming a stormcloak soldier even if you play as a dark elf so the Stormcloaks do have a little approval and tolerance for those that fight for them you can see that for example when you as a dark elf go to stormcloak camps they don’t comment on your race but rather inspire you to die like a hero so I truly think the Stormcloaks aren’t that bad like they seem
@@TheFallinhaloyou have to understand that the Thalmor are really the dicks in this game they are the true evil that seek domination they even tend to be racist just like the Stormcloaks when they battle you. Atleast in the German version they say „Stirb Menschliches Wesen“ which means Die Human Creature so seriously I can’t blame his hatred for the Thalmor especially after they tortured him if you read the dossier of ulfric stormcloak and his little agency with the Thalmor
@@bosniantheolog3451Well it was only ONE imperial that wanted you killed, and general Tulius apologizes!
"you cant beat the Thalmor by yourself"
Hammerfell: "you were saying?"
They had these curved swords
The difference between that is: Hammerfell was united to fight against the Thalmor, just some nobles like Iman(Saadia) betrayed the resistance, so it's more easy to fight Thalmor united and with their all mighty curved swords
@@leonardozeni1167 both Hammerfell and Skyrim r countries that r impossible 4 the Thalmor to take over as the Altmer come from a rather balanced and humid environment on the Summerset Isles meaning that they're not used to extreme cold (Skyrim) or extreme heat (Hammerfell) as if the Thalmor wanted to take over Skyrim then they'd need to take Winterhold, the Pale and Eastmarch to do so and install the Frostfall mod and set the exposure as high as it will go, set the option to hardcore and walk around those areas and u would see just how successful the knife-eared Nazis would be :-)
@@GenericUsername-qp1ww 1. Hammerfell didn't beat the Thalmor.
2. What they did do, can largely be attributed to the large quantity of Legion veterans left behind by General Decianus.
It's canon that the Concordat was the only way for the Empire to survive the onslaught of the Dominion.
@@dutchpatriot17 1: whether or not they did, they're seriously giving those knife-eared Nazi's a good hammering and shoving their curved swords up their asses
2: the Stormcloaks r made up of some disenfranchised Legion veterans (e.g Ulfric and Galmar) who feel the corrupt 4th era Empire have lost their way
Titus Medes Empire is a joke which is y I believe him being assasinated is canon when ES6 comes along
I join the empire for two reasons;
1. Maven Black-Briar becomes Jarl of Riften
2. I don't like to invade Whiterun after all Balgruuf has done for us ;-;
Lauren Thorarinson I don't know if i can agree with the first reason, :D
but i am with you, i don't want to betray Balgruuf and Whiterun itsself.
I'm with the stormcloaks and Maven became Jarl anyway
Balgruuf done so much for i can't turn my back on him let's just admire that he put he's city and he's people on the line to help u kill alduin I honestly think imperials are goat even with there fucked up flaws
Lauren Thorarinson I chose empire for the reason I don't get a shitty Jarl for whiterun. Jarl Bulgrauff for life
+Lauren Thorarinson, I don't wanna sound ungratefull, but what exactly did Balgruuf for us? I kinda like him myself, but he don't seem to be overly willing to do anything. He helped with catching Odahwiing, but after the Dragonborn solved the Civil War event, that's not the reason to side with him anyway. At least he owes the Dovahkiin for solving his problem, not the other way around.
I even didn't join either Imperials, nor Stormcloaks, still sided with Balgruuf, because I needed him, lol.
Other people: *Super complex reasons why they chose their faction*
Me: I like the color blue so I chose Stormcloaks
Obi_Wan Shinobi.34 Me: I like snow and blue.
Me : I like brown, and that is my reason why I choose the Imperial
I like red
I like the color red but chose Stormcloaks because everytime I kill an Imperial I see the color red :-)
@@GenericUsername-qp1ww funybuny
Every time I start a new game I struggle with this choice each time.
That’s why I’m here too
@@bryanenty8385 2 years later, here i am
The Stromcloaks just want a Skyrexit. Bethesda saw something coming.
They want to be an independent state, the empire wants to invade all of Nirn.
I sided with them becouse the dragonborn has the only legitimate claim to the imperial throne. I think siding with the stormcloaks is just to press that claim.
Actually I suspect this game influenced that.
Stormcloak supporters are THAT manipulatable.
Skexit*
Wow, some close parallels! Except the EU is more like the Aldmeri Dominion than the Empire. They don't take orders from foreign oppressors under sufferance, they are the ones directing it.
I joined the Stormcloaks in my first playthrough BECAUSE I AM A TRUE NORD, but then after the Battle of Whiterun I felt my heart break as they took Jarl Balgruuf (the truely true high king of Skyrim) away and my love of the Stormcloaks diminished into a decision to wipe them from the glorious emperor's soil.
So yeah go team
Yeah i feel that too
Basically what i witnissed 5 minutes ago, jist made a new ps3 acc and finally i can go mage!
@@xienvy5242 also you cant kill those cute whiterun soldiers!
No homo
greg seriously dude balgruuf respects you for who you are and respects your decisions and gave you two weapons and a home within the city and says he is honoured to have you as thane of whiterun and yet you call him a fag.
Man I cannot wait to hear your side of the story
I also feel that...man so much guilt
screw both create the dragonborn empire with the main character as king.
I think that's what the last dragonborn(Miraak) was trying to do.
LunaLakshmi miraak wasn't the dragonborn before he was the very first
what a horrible idea
that's actually highly possible
On the Thalmor notes on Ulfirc, small detail, at the very end it actually says the the thalmor don't want the Empire to win the civil war either. The thalmor doesn't want either side to win. The Thalmor wants the civil war to exist, not to be resolved. No matter who wins the civil war, the winner will have to face the thalmor.
After the dragonborn DLC, i think the dragonborn faction is totally more plausible (if not quite perfectly plausible). The bend will shout changes everything.... Imagine building an army of dragons under your command. An army of dragons in the daytime, and an army of vampires in the night. Win the civil war. And then..... I don't care how tough you dainty high elves think you are. I don't care if you are from the Summerset Isles. I've got an army of mother fucking dragons, and I will slay you all.
The empire has already proven impotent against the Thalmor. The only way to truly usurp the elves would be a game changer like a dragon army. I so want this.
The fact that today even 10 years later people still argue over this is amazing how much this game had a impact even yesterday on the official discord people were arguing over if balgruff should have joined stormcloaks or imperials
yea just did the civil war for the first time (on my first play through i’m a little late) and my buddy and i were arguing about who’s the better choice (i chose the empire he was dead set on the stormcloaks) and it’s still a on going rant
@@garretth6309 imperials all the way
@@garretth6309 stormcloaks are racist , and imperials are stronger overall in numbers. W
@@imhim3107so much stronger that they lose provinces to bandits, simperial
Stormcloaks, Imperials, Dragons. Don’t matter what i kill, let them come.
ok “whiterun guard”
You forgot the most important one on the list: THALMOR
But.. What if... You take an arrow... To the knee?
wish there was a bandit group you could join
@@Gerraint Vietnam flashbacks
To be honest I believe the imperials are better. And I couldn't betray jarl balgruf
I just wish they would betray the thalmor
Now that I think about it why cant the imperials and stormcloaks team up to defeat the thalmor
I HATE the thalmor with a passion
SPOILER: Have you forgot what General Tulius says to you at the end of the Civil War? The Thalmor are getting their asses kicked very soon!
The Stormcloaks are just pawns of the Thalmor to destroy the Empire that's why.
Daniel DiMario
You should speak more with people then,
In a speak with the dragonborn, Legat Rikke indicates, that the stormcloak attack makes the Empire using the Troops, the Empire and General Tulius build for ending the 'enslavery' of the fucking Thalmor asholes
Team Thlamor ALL DAY, nobody seems to know that first of all, Talos, during his conquest of Tamriel, when he came to the Summerset Isles, mass murdered the Elves for not joining the Empire. Some of whom whould have still been alive during the events of skyrim so they naturally are gonna hold a grudge. So hes a peice of shit and should be outlawed from being worshipped, secondly in no fucking universe could an independent Stormcloack Skyrim, fresh off a civil war no less, defend against the Aldmeri Dominion and the Thalmor, the Stormcloacks are an Elf racist, Ignorant regime whom worship a mass murderer, and the Empire is an oppressive, Elf hating Regime as well
First time i've seen anyone supporting the elves YOU FUCKING MONSTER THE EMPIRE WILL STRIKE SOON FOR TALOS
No army can stop me! For I am Dovakiin!
The Dragonborn is still a mortal, eventually he would get overrun. One warrior, no matter how tough, can't beat an entire army. Even Pelinal Whitestrake couldn't do that and he was a Shezarrine (an avatar of Lorkhan).
HumanOfPrey But I'm a human playing a computer simulated game, I'd easily win
Caramel Viking Don't equate gameplay with lore.
HumanOfPrey fuck lore
HumanOfPrey not if Ur level 1 billion and you can one shot anything lol
I remember years ago, my friend had possibly the most logical reason for joining the stormcloaks (in his eyes anyhow) he said in his own wise words "because the imperials are gay, and they wear gay little skirts n that innit"
From that day fourth I was inspired.
what a wise human being
Your friend was a poet
he deserves to be quoted upon the loading screens 🥺
Your friend is BASED AF.
@@Ignisan_66 oh mate, the lad is an idiot 🤣 has a heart of gold but a brain of mush
I’ve played through both quest stories,and I’d prefer to be on Whiterun side,Companions,going to the Steward for bounties,coming home to Lydia in Breezehome. I’m on Whiterun side.
Lydia died on me lol
@@glodafister5427 I married her lol she ain't dying ever
Slightly Nerdy white run is on Empires side though
@@valon5069 they're mainly undecided, the only reason they become empire is because they were pressured more by the imperials
MarcusofMenace but the lord of whiterun calls the Stormcloaks fools for rebelling after the Stormcloaks are successful at capturing whiterun
But no matter what Titus Mede the second gets assassinated, this is the reason why i think siding with the empire make more sense, as at the end of the civil war you are a legate. So the empire has a high ranking soldier who just so happens to be the freaking DRAGONBORN and the emperor just died with no heirs, so of course they are going to crown the Drangonborn.
Thijs Tharn He's already old, he would die very soon
Heroes depart after their prophecies are fulfilled: thus was the case of the Vestige, thus was the case of the Eternal Champion, thus was the case of the Hero of Daggerfall, thus was the case of the Nerevarine, thus was the case with the Champion of Cyrodiil, thus will be the case of the Dragonborn.
HumanOfPrey Just 2 of them were really erased from history (died), Neravarine, Dragonborn and HoK are still out there.
The Champion of Cyrodiil is heavily implied to have ascended to the Godhood as Sheogorath reborn. In Skyrim, Sheogorath will tell you that he had was at the Oblivion Crisis for "that whole sordid affair" and that his position was passed down from him to himself.
ohhh shiet im a mother fucking EMPEROR!!!
The Dragonborn can never be defeated you know why?...Because The Dragonborn can respawn...
The dragonborn can also eat 477 cheese wheels in a second when in trouble.
@@forsemasterjedi ah cheese,the greatest life saver
*Gasp time travel
also TGM
No he cant dragonborn can reload! Respawn means that when you die you respawn and everything you did has hapened! that sweetroll you stealed? Thats in your inventory still! Shooting guards in the knee? They are mad at you still! You reload because everything you did has not happened yet
The best ending is in the High of Hrothgar:
Both sides get what they want
There is a truce:
Enough time for both sides to regroup and reconsider who their real enemy is: the Thalmor
I believe THIS is the actual ending that the writers intended for Skyrim or else they wouldn't bother to put a Season Unending questline but rather have the main hero just join either side and win the civil war for his/her preferable faction
And I personally like it this way
The scenario of the Empire either collapsing or EVEN somehow unrealistically rising and reconquering Tamriel are equally dumb for me
If anyone sneaks up on J’zargo, he’ll smell them coming, or he might not. We’ll see!
May your roads lead you to warm lands
“Something smells foul”
Ah, we have found a cave. I don’t think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside
The civil war as a whole is stupid in my opinion, and I'd prefer not to side with either. However, I think your reasoning for the Stormcloaks not being able to beat the Aldmeri Dominion is false. First off we have to take into account that the Dominion was hurt every bit as badly during the war as the Empire. While lore is a little conflicting it's pretty clear that the Dominion wasn't really in much better a place after the great war. This is further explained by the lack of Dominion power in Skyrim.
The fact is the Dominion would have crushed the Nords a long time ago if they were actually capable of doing so. They haven't because they're not physically capable of it anymore. Their empire is shattered after the war and they know it. They're continued presence in Skyrim is purely to continue to flex their muscles to keep the Nords and Imperials complacent. They're bluffing in an attempt to keep the humans scared.
I'd also like to point out that the Dominion isn't just looking to rule the Nords and Imperials. They wouldn't have any problem destroying cities and leveling the countryside like you claimed. While it's never explicitly stated there are subtle hints that the Dominion has a much more sinister goal than just ruling the world. All this conflict is also not just for conquest, but for religion. The Dominion believe that humans are heretics to their religion. This isn't about resources or land, it's about ideals and race. The elves believe themselves superior to man. This is why they hate Talos so much. The very idea that a man acended to godhood is a slap in the face to them. The Dominion will not stop at ruling Tamriel. To them this is about destroying anyone that doesn't agree with them. The White Gold Concordat wasn't a "we own you" treaty as you said. The elves knew they couldn't go any more either, but they were smart enough to broker for a "peace" that benefited them more than others. The Emperor at the time was just too afraid and too tired of death and destruction leading to his signing.
What's my proof of this? Hammerfell and Black Marsh. Both these nations have managed to remain "free" of the Dominion without any help at all. Hammerfell is no more powerful than Skyrim yet they have managed to hold their own in a constant war with the Dominion to this day. Black Marsh is far more powerful at this point and likely too dangerous for the Dominion to even try to take.
Now lets say that the Stormcloaks win the civil war. They could easily join forces with the rebellious Redguard which would likely be enough on its own to take back Hammerfell and keep Skyrim. Now factor in the Orcs who would never bow to anyone. Out of pure necessity, and from lore I've read a likely respect I see no reason the Orcs wouldn't also join this cause. You also have to factor in the Dark Elves who hate the Altmer more than anyone. While the Nords are racist pricks the few remaining Dark Elves would almost certainly join forces with them in a war with the Dominion.
After factoring in all these different groups, both large and small, you have a very formidable force. Now I will confess I don't know the current state of Highrock all that well, but if Hammerfell and Skyrim both became free in this scenario then it's likely it wouldn't matter one way or the other. Highrock would be an ally again out of pure necessity. You're not going to go against your two closest neighbors, especially when they're fighting someone you don't much like either.
Finally we come to the Imperials. Yes, it's likely the bulk of the Imperial soldiers would work for the Dominion, whipping boys that they are. However, most Imperials don't like the Dominion at all. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and in a scenario like the one presented I doubt a little grudge like the civil war would be enough to make all Imperials decide to join a group that hates them out of pure spite. I could easily see many people rising up within Cyrodill itself which would destabilize the Dominion forces.
Overall I honestly believe it would be totally possible for the Stormcloaks to win against the Dominion, or at least drive them from Tamriel. However, this whole scenario becomes a lot easier to pull off if Imperial forces and Stormcloaks work together in Skyrim to do what I said and then use Imperial influence to get the other groups mentioned to join the cause.
If any of you read all of this rant then I appreciated you so very much, and I hope you enjoyed it. Please leave any comments, rebuttals, etc as I'd be really interested to hear them.
The Stormcloaks are capable of taking down the Dominion? Nope. They are born because the Dominion wanted to and they are so squishy and disorganised that they were losing with a single legion of the Empire (they captured their leader, another time? Dies he even learn from his errrors?!) at the beginning of the game. The lavk of power of the Dominion in Skyrim? Elenwen is always present, Thalmor patrols walk the wilderness taking prisoners, there are an Embassy and Dominion forts.....
"It's pretty clear" the contrary. The Concordat was signed because even if the Empire won the Thalmor were a menace however, if not it didn't make sense to accept it. The Dominion coukd have been weakened at the time and still the Empire, who had beaten it, feared it at the point to accept their claims. The same Empire who just used not even the 1/10 of its force to fight and arrive very closely to defeat the Stormcloaks.
+Giuseppe Ciullo The war between the Empire and the Stormcloacks is on every level very different to a war between the Stormcloaks and the Thalmor. This is because the Legion of the Empire they were was already in Skyrim and litraly only miles away fron the Stormcloaks.The distance between Skyrim and the summerset isles is nearly the size of Tamriel so the Thalmor sendind in a proper army would takes up to months, this would the Stormcloaks more than enoungh time to build proper defences around Skyrim giving the Stormcloaks a large advantege. Also as Wishbone mentioned not many people like the Thalmor and would most likely seize the opportunity to fight them as well even if there not helping the Stormcloaks directly, meaning the Thalmor would be fighting most countries in Tamriel, a fight they could not possibly win.
Giuseppe Ciullo It's very clear that if the Dragonborn doesn't pick a side the civil war would continue indefinitely. So, no, the Empire wasn't "very close" to beating the Stormcloaks. It's also pretty clear that the Imperial forces in Skyrim are probably the least damaged in all of Tamriel since the great war. Cyrodill from most accounts is pretty much 100% under Dominion control and since it took the brunt likely has little in the way of real forces left. So really the Empire is probably using far more than 1/10 of its power against the Stormcloaks.
Another point is that Hammerfell has bands of rebels who are holding back Dominion soldiers pretty damn well at the same time as the events of Skyrim. Are you saying that a ragtag group of rebels are any better than the Stormcloaks?
Also I said that the Stormcloaks alone could not win. However, there are a multitude of allies they can call on. This allied force would have a very good chance of pushing back the weakened Dominion.
Finally the Emperor is clearly a tired old man. He accepts death without an ounce of fight in him if you play through the Dark Brotherhood storyline simply stating that "there is no escaping the Dark Brotherhood". He's accepted fate. Do you honestly believe that a man like this wouldn't have signed the Concordat just because he was tired of fighting and believed that death would find him and the empire either way? The state of the world at the time of Skyrim pretty much proves that the rest of the empire wasn't beaten yet. Cyrodill may have been, but not the empire as a whole. Titus Mede II signed the Concordat because he didn't *want* to fight anymore, not because he couldn't.
Giuseppe Ciullo The empire didn't have enough fight in them to even keep fighting the Dominion. Cyrodill is likely completely under Dominion control and acting as lapdogs at this point. That "one legion" is likely the bulk of the official Imperial forces left.
Also, even if Ulfrick was killed in Helgen it wouldn't be the end of the Stormcloaks. His death would likely just work as a Martyrdom and create a fury within the remaining forces. Ulfrick's army is full of well trained leaders that could take his place. None are as charismatic, but that wouldn't matter when they could just shout the "great martyr" Ulfrick's name before every battle and have the troops ready to smash everything in their path.
Also it's true that the Dominion wants the Stormcloaks to win because they believe they're just a bunch of lesser humans incapable of defeating the might of elves. However, what the Dominion believes doesn't translate to truth. The Dominion are boasters. They're not the type to just admit defeat. They'd be boasting and acting strong even if they were invaded in Summerset. You as the Dragonborn destroy the entirety of one of their "forts" by yourself in a sidequest (or with the help of a couple of Nords if you chose). That's not exactly a powerful force if they can loose a well defended fort to a group of at most 4 people.
And like I said, the Stormcloaks alone could not win. No group on their own could. However, as I stated there are plenty of allies within a short distance from Skyrim. And if you look a real world history it's not hard for a weaker, less organized group of natives to beat a grand, invading empire. While the Stormcloaks couldn't beat the Thalmor empire as a whole they could easily do what Hammerfell is doing and keep them at bay in Skyrim. The Viet Cong in the real world are a perfect example of this.
I’m glad that tullius also hates the thalmor.
@kerosin fuchs do you know that they were trying to free The rebel leader and the general is actually standing up the elves were trying to get him released so that the Civil War could keep on going that weakening the empire if it wasn’t for the dragon that attacked the Ford then the rebellion would’ve been crushed and the elves would have to fight a stronger empire
@kerosin fuchs my proof is a voice line that although it’s never said in the game it’s in the code
@@alexoisthestupid1469 Stronger Empire? If all the power the Empire has is in skyrim, they are all doomed even before the civil war. Now, go lick some Thalmors boots.
@@mistermustacheguy2763 yeah, i mean, the Empire is no longe a good government for other provinces. Im sure as hammerfell gained independency, things started to work better bcs they didnt had the Empire's taxes anymore.
@@MrAdam496 you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about if you think all of their power is in Skyrim lmao, their army there is a fraction of their actual army, hell they only sent a General after a while to the civil war and he captured Ulfric within months at most
I'd like to point out that during the main storyline you find out that Jarl Ulfric was sent by the Thamor to sow discontent and rebellion in Skyrim and while they themselves don't think he's on their side anymore he's doing exactly what they wanted him to do....for that reason Empire is the only right choice. End the rebellion and reunite the people against the real enemy
Exactly. The Empire may have a weaker military than the Thalmor and will have been weakened even more by the civil war, but they will also have more veterans, and more importantly, the power of the Dragonborn who can easily slay any Thalmor rats. That's one of the reasons I always join the Empire-I don't belief that they will be permanently subservient to the Thalmor, another war will eventually come, and when it does, the Thalmor will tremble before the power of the Dragonborn and the worship of Talos will be allowed again, all without the racism and bigotry of the Stormcloaks.
There's a book telling how the Thalmore deceived Ulfric causing him to go to war. It's in the place where the Thalmore leaders live.
People tend to forget that in that book Is also written that a Stormcloak victory is not a good thing either. The Thalmor simply don't want a winner to emerge, but a civil war that lasts till the real war begin. There's not a good thing to do beside of the belief of the player. That's not the Septim empire either, that came to an end as Tiber Septim predicted in Morrowind. Talos conquered all the provinces slaughtering people with a god-machine.The Thalmor can't conquer Tamriel, they don't have the Power nor the men(they also lost to the redguard)
I side with Jarl Balgruuf, he is the true Hi-King.
Edit: The Death of Torygg is also another reason why I side against Ulfric, I find his actions cowardly, nothing more then a greedy bully picking on someone who was clearly out of his league.
I remember asking Balgruff why he sided with the Empire. He said he joined Empire side because Empire has military advantage! Now who's coward LOL.
nctect cout Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you. Lights are on but no body is at home sort of ordeal. I am just going to assume you are either young or a troll, and not genuinely that naive.
DravenWolfe
Did I say anything wrong?
nctect cout Apparently it is cowardly to be smart, that's about it.
Ulfric killed torygg in a fair fight
The Thalmore are the real enemy, here. What finally tipped the scale for me was when I was infiltrating the Thalmore Embassy and came across their case files on Ulfric Stormcloak. They'd rather have the Stormcloaks win because it gives the Thalmore an advantage. The best move against them is to have the Imperials win, and win quickly. Less casualties = more people to fight the Thalmore later because they will be back.
Paige Peña I saw that too! The thalmor are even sabatoging the civil war in skyrim and had a plan to free ulfric at the beginning before the dragon showed up. They want skyrim to be split, and ulfric is doing that. Side with the imperials and unite skyrim!
Paige Peña But they also say in the dossier that they don't want the Stormcloaks to win either. They just want to prolong the war.
@Paige
Yeah, I've played a High Elf mage character... unfortunately, Bethesda doesn't allow you to join the Thalmor Faction, mores the pity. A more fleshed out story arc if you join them rather than the Imperials or the Stormcloaks would have been cool, maybe even some of the quests being some sabotaging to cause more strife. But now I'm playing a Nord Imperialist... death to the elves!
Really simply doing the war on either side screws them over since they want the war to continue
The Thalmor mention in the dossier written about Ulfric that an Imperial victory harms their overall position in Skyrim, and say that indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed and that Ulfric is their "asset." An independent Skyrim would be blocked off at all of its ports, and would receive no aid or resources from the Empire, and would thus have to rely on their own. Skyrim under the Empire has Cyrodil to the north, and the Empire could possibly restore relations with Hammerfell, seeing as how it was due to the Imperial Legion that Hammerfell was able to push out the Dominion and defeat Lady Arranelya's troops.
My reason for the stormcloaks: "forget the list, he goes to block"
"I SAID NEXT PRISONER"
@Czterdziestysiódmy The whole thing showed how non caring and deaf the imperial leaders are.
Yall forgetting the nice guy imperial dude with the list
You did a wonderful job copying the top comment, very original.
@@jasperneybeepbeep9826 I made this comment before reading anything you balled up McDonald's napkin
KeylessTax That was the best insult I’ve ever heard, you have my respect and have earned my sub🥺
Picking between the two has been a tough decision for me since the game came out but now I feel that I have a new perspective on it
Lots of people don't seem to mention that the Aldmeri Dominion want BOTH sides to keep fighting. They have helped both sides to try and keep the war going and the empire distracted.
I hope the next game is about the war against the Aldmeri Dominion!
+Danilo Luís Faria also, could have big battles like in Mount & Blade!
It is taking place in argonia
+The Red Legionary That's a rumor at this point of time.
Jinmuu Shuihuotu ok
+Jude Bale Cooper actually it is, Black Marsh is the common name but some Argonians prefer to refer to it as Argonia
My thoughts on the lore.
1) I support the empire, as they do not support the Thalmor, as is often stated. They signed the WG Concordant as a peace treaty, not a surrender. This was likely signed to protect the WG tower, see point 4.
2) Both the Aldmeri Dominion and the Empire are preparing for a second war, and neither plans on having another truce. I want the Empire as unified and powerful as possible against the Dominion, and it is often stated that the Nords make up a considerable portion of their army, or at least a highly skilled portion of it.
3) I think the stormcloaks are racist, yes they gave the gray quarter to the dunmer but, despite what others say, they do not give them equal opportunities. The example often given to counter this point is that of the dark elf, Belyn Hlaalu, owning a farm outside the city. My response to this is simple, if you recall, Hlaalu is one of the Great Houses of Morrowind, of course a member of that house will recieve privileges that the commoners will not. The other example given is that of Niranye, a high elf, this example is a weak one. Niranye can be heard talking to Captain Lonely Gale, asking if he still has contacts in the shipping industry, he says he won't aid any smuggling, to which she calls him a wet blanket, clearly showing that, to own her meagre stall, she resorts to illegal smuggling. She can also be heard having conversations with Revyn and Torbjorn, which hint at her ties to the thieves guild, this connection is confirmed by the fact you can fence stolen items to her after helping the Guild gain influence in Windhelm.
The two elves that are cited as the most successful are a noble and a thief/smuggler, hardly an indication of an equal opportunity environment.
4) The empire needs to be as strong as possible as it is heavily implied that the Aldmeri Dominion want to destroy the Towers, the very anchors of existance that keep the world from experiencing a planemeld, the reason for this is that they believe they can reach divinity through destruction of man. The reason they outlawed Talos worship is that, when a god has no believers in the ES universe, they cease to exist, Talos ceasing to exist would weaken all of mankind, as he protects them. The concordant was likely signed in order to prevent the destruction of the WG tower, one of the aforementioned Towers, another of which is the Adamantium tower in High Rock, which the dominion also attacked. This also explains why the empire recalled legions to protect the Imperial City in both the Oblivion crisis and the Great War, both attackers want to cause a planemeld, the only thing preventing it is the towers.
5) Without the empire's protection, both Skyrim and it will fall, the Dominion has the largest navy in Tamriel, as is stated often, allowing an invasion through the northern coast of Skyrim, and no, the Sea of Ghosts will not stop such an invasion, as it is not impossible to do so, the sea is regularly traversed by traders.
6) Talos will not approve of the Stormcloaks undoing the very empire he created, the same empire that he ruled, his formation of a unified empire caused his ascension to godhood, I wouldn't be surprised if the destruction of the Empire caused him to loose power or even cease to exist.
7) The Stormcloaks claim to be protecting the "Nord way of life" in a province that has been part of the empire longer than any other province, if the nord way of life were to disappear, wouldn't it have already done so, over the hundreds of years belonging to the Empire?
8) The Stormcloaks are impatient and whiney. It is clear that there is an established way to become High King, through a moot, if Ulfric can't become High King fairly, through a vote from the Jarls, then is he really fit for leadership?
9) Ulfric murdered the high king, and not in a fair duel, he is a former Greybeard apprentice, and used his powers to win. He even states that it was a message to the other Jarls. If you meet the high king in Sovengard, he will tell you the same thing, and that he just misses his beloved wife, Elisif.
10) Ulfric is the most irrational person in the room when negotiating a peace deal during the main questline, he is the one who demands Imperial held holds during a peace treaty, not Tulius. He endangers the Dragonborn's plan for defeating Alduin just because he wants Markarth. Then he tries to make it seem as though it was he who wants nothing more than to help defeat Alduin if you skew the deal in Imperial favour. He is a child, unable to fight fairly in anything, whining about everything because he is so very oppressed and misunderstood. Tulius, on the other hand, is mature throughout the whole event and does not need the blades to tell him that he is being a baby.
I completely agree with the last point, i was leaning a bit for stormcloaks at the very beginning until i figured out whiterun is rich and empire-owned while all the stormcloak cities seem a bit poorer. His attitude during the peace treaty was so bad that if given the option i would execute him myself in the middle of it.
The problem with Ulfric Is that he misses information and that he couldn't accept a foreign race stopping his kin from worshipping the creator of the empire. He doesn't knows that the Empire is planning to strike again on the Aldmeri, etcs, in his mind as in every stormcloak mind is that the empire was coward in giving up their creator. That was my opinion too lul. He could be more smarter and kinda of realize that, but put yourself on his position, you don't have acess to the information like gods as we do, and his anger and etcs makes him to narrowly focus on the attack on the Empire. Imagine Prussia as humans in WW1 and the French as altmor. Now imagine that you lost your whole family and friends fighting in the WW1 for in the end they sign up the white gold concordat and now you can't worship your main god (Talos). If Ulfric dies and raises to sovngarde he should know all that but the devs didn't want to give all that.
Lord Thanatos I agree with that
It's obvious that you held quite the bias when you were reviewing this information. One could easily turn these points against you. #8 for example, if you had actually seen the stormcloaks siege of Solitude; he refuses the mantle of high king until the moot deems him high king.
Henric Sjölin I have seen both endings, and I stand by my point, he is happy to go through with a moot once he replaces all the jarls with his supporters, of course he is. The empire on the other hand has no problem with having anti-empire jarls, the jarl of Morthal is very openly anti-thalmor, the jarl of dawnstar was jarl for a long time before the war broke out, and would have likely continued to rule if he hadn't raised his flag in rebellion, and he openly persecuted imperial veterans.
3:37 that's a great point actually. Like the problem the Mongols had for example was that the land they conquered didn't give any valuable ressources, because most of the times they butchered every resistance, from which there was plenty. The only thing the Mongols had that made them superior to other forces was the manpower they gained from the conquered lands, especially Asia since they kind of held back there. But ultimately that was their downfall when they destabilised considerably after the failed invasions of Japan and the death of the Khan.
It's the whole "ruling with fear" debate basically, and the most important thing you can take away from all that, is that incorporating the culture and the religion in the conquered lands tends to always be better than going full Mongol.
That's why the Roman Empire survived for over 1000 years (technically even 2000 if considering Byzantium) and the Mongols only a century and a few decades. And the thing that led to the downfall of the Romans was especially the slave rebellions, so people inside the Empire that were treated badly.
So an immortal empire is probably somewhat possible actually, by treating it's habitants all the same in a democracy for example. I mean the best example for this is today, most western and westernised countries are far from being unstable and will probably, unless WW3 comes, continue to exist for forever, unless a radical party takes over or something which may screw things over.
Also once again, a radical party can only gain enough support to take over if enough people feel treated badly.
treating it's habitants isn't necessary, as long as everyone basic needs fulfilled then even dictatorship can survive. democracy with shtty leader and government ain't going to feed people stomach or give people shelter
The civil war storyline is honestly really tragic; no matter what side you support both the Empire and Stormcloaks lose so many good warriors when they should have been allies against the Dominion. I sympathise with them in a few ways but I could never join the Stormcloaks. I could never betray the legacy of Martin and the Champion of Cyrodiil, plus a united Empire is the only way to beat the Dominion
That's right! If I'm not wrong, Martin became Akatosh (the hero of Kvatch says so) and all dragons, including the dragonborn, are a part of Akatosh's soul.
Legacy of Martin?
Septim dinasty died when Martin sacrafised himself.
Its more of Mwde dinasty
@@velox3461 you should look up the meaning of the word legacy, dumbo
The Empire betrayed Martin's legacy by allowing the Thalmor to take all the credit for his sacrifice and the end of the Oblivion Crisis. I'm going to honor Martin's legacy by fighting for what's right, an independent Tamriel free of Thalmor corruption. Skyrim is just the first step. The Empire is nothing but a rotted husk now.
Okay, considering that Bethesda is likely going to be starting on elder scrolls 6 within the next year or so, I think I'll just get this out of the way; I was planning on saving it for my fanfic, but with time running out, here goes: This is something that's occurred to me within the past couple of months, and makes me DREAD a Stormcloak victory - quite simply put, the Empire sees the bigger picture here. And I don't just mean 'skyrim needs to Empire to fight off the Thalmor', I mean Skyrim needs the Empire to remain STABLE and survive long enough to fight them. To clarify what I mean, let's first look to Hammerfell, the providence that was able to fight the Thalmor/Dominion. A decent number of Stormcloak supporters claim that, if Hammerfell was able to fend off the dominion, then so can Skyrim when it claims it's independence.
Wrong.
You want to know why Hammerfell was able to remain stable enough to fight on? It was STABLE. To elaborate, you need to understand something: Hammerfell was, up until around the end of the Great War, divided into two factions (technically three, but the third one is a small minority), known as the Forebears (progressive) and the Crowns (conservative/traditional). The two factions have, historically, been bitter enemies, often clashing - _however_, as detailed in 'The Great War', in 4E 173 a Forebear Army from Sentinel broke a Dominion Siege on Hegathe, a _crown_ city, leading to the _reconciliation_ of the two factions.
In other words, Hammerfell was _united_.
With that in mind, it was the ENTIRETY of Hammerfell that was (justifiably) outraged when the white gold concordat was signed, and the two former enemies _together_, combined with some 'deserters' of the Imperial army (again, detailed in the lore book) as well as the fact that Hammerfell is particularly well known for it's naval warfare, that allowed them to fight the Dominion to a standstill, at the cost of leaving most of southern Hammerfell utterly devastated.
I hope some of you can begin to see where I'm going with this.
Again, Hammerfell was UNITED.
Now, let's look at Skyrim, 4E 201
You know what I see? _A Nation divided_.
Sure, the (most likely temporary, and not exactly 'enforced' beyond the bare minimum) ban on Talos worship was widely hated by Nords - but only _half_ were pissed enough to rebel and try to claim independence.
A nation divided.
What do you think is gonna happen if the Stormcloaks win?
Sure, Talos worship is again permitted within skyrim, religious liberty for all - but those other Nords? The ones that still support the Empire?
They're not going to take it lying down.
And, worst of all for the Stormcloaks, the Empire is still alive (fractured, but still alive) in the south and will NOT be willing to give up their providence that easily, and will most certainly be supported by the other half of the Nords, the ones who still want to remain part of the Empire. Here's evidence to support this:
en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Stormcloak_Missive_(Fort_Neugrad).
ua-cam.com/video/7x8sRkr4Bso/v-deo.html
The Stormcloaks, FRESH from victory in a Civil war, where morale will likely be highest, but troops in need of rest and recover, will be fighting another war within a week, two tops, from the west, south...
And, most likely, east. Yeah, Morrowind will very likely get involved. The improved morale for the Stormcloaks extends to it's more radical parties, the ones who really are the racist ***holes the stormcloaks have been accused of being, who will likely make things even worse for the Dunmer, Argonians, and other races, stretching the already tense racial relations to the point where things will snap. And the problem isn't that the Stormcloaks are racist (though, they do, indeed have more racists among them the Imperial leaning Nords), it's that their rhetoric of 'Skyrim for the Nords' (and their general nationalistic attitude) emboldens the racists that DO exist, making them come out of the proverbial woodworks and do stupid **** that makes any existing tensions even worse! As for Ulfric himself...Well, I have my doubts if he would really do anything to try and stop those extremists (He DID ban the Argonians from being within the city walls (frankly, we don't know how long the Argonians have been there; they could have been more free-roaming in the city before Ulfric took over, for all we know) and he hasn't done anything to improve the Dunmer's conditions, even though doing so would likely give them more incentive to help the Stormcloaks)
Regardless, a 'Stormcloak' victory is a freakin' _powder keg that's just been lit_!
And all that in fighting is EXACTLY what the Thalmor want.
With an Imperial victory, on the other hand, the racial tensions, while still not necessarily great, will likely stabilize, if not outright improve a bit, and any Stormcloak remnants will only have themselves to turn to, unable to do little more than grumble and simply try to stay alive. And, more importantly, everyone will be ready for the Second Great War, the OPPOSITE of what the Thalmor want.
I have a great deal of sympathy for the Ulfric Stormcloak and his army, truly, I do, but the rebellion is just making things worse.
God, I hope I didn't come across as condescending in this little tirade...
TheTurtleWolf I love this analysis because this is exactly what I think after years of observations and countless hours of playing the game in the past (though I just started a new playthrough recently in anticipation of TESVI). Couldn't say it any better. The heart says Stormcloak but the mind says Imperial. The Thalmor is the bigger picture everyone needs to take into account when considering the long-term survival of Skyrim.
You just said exactly what i was thinking if the rebellion win the thalmor has an excuse to attack or to build more burocratic walls.( i imagine that if the rebelion win the thalmor will say that the empire is weak that it can't even deal with a "small" rebellion and will use as an excuse to do whatever they want) while on the other hand if the empire win it gains time to rebuild strength enough to stand up to the aldmeri dominion until an full scale rebellion against the thalmor (hopefully that's what will happen) is able to occur
Lol I'm not gonna read that
TheTurtleWolf the empire actually gonna win, even if the player choose stormcloak, cyroodil actually had a backup plan. Theres a channel who do an analysis about the upcoming result of the war, some of the empire soldier already in the skyrim border for the backup plan. Why the stromcloak can keep up with the current civil war with the empire ?, it is becouse cyroodil just send tullius, not the real army. So what the stromcloak deal with is had the same status as them, that is a farmer. The imperial army in the skyrim was a former farmer same like stromcloak. Tullius him self ever said "if only i had my legion here in skyrim, the rebel would be wiped out within a week" so whenever the outcome is i think the empire gonna win
TheTurtleWolf, Damn well said.
I side with myself. Imperials: racial equality Stormcloacks: Freedom of religion
I just killed everyone.
I mean the Empire wasn't really enforcing the ban on Talos worship until Ulfric got pissy about it and the Aldmeri Dominion stepped in. The Stormcloaks are just pawns anyways for the Thalmor to destroy the Empire, Talos' Empire.
Vanessa AYYYYYYY nice reference!
Imperial Crusader not enforcing the ban? I bet those prisoners being escorted by the Thalmor would disagree and Ulfric's militia.
I Control My Fate That's a gross generalization that would come out of the mouth of a globalist.
Remember, the game had to put you under the imperial axe to make the stormcloaks even an option to join
The Imperials are more professional and have goals, they hate the thalmor as much as the common person, so I feel like siding with the Imperials, killing the stormcloaks and building Skyrim back up enough to then fight back against the thalmor
Skyrim is for the Nords, you Imperial Milk Drinker!
@@curlzncrush Say that to literally every other race in Skyrim that doesn't support the Thalmor
@@sambradley9091 the aldmeri dominion cant be so strong anyways, can they? they are just a bunch of goofs that use magic well or archery, and we all know the dagger is the best weapon in skyrim
The ban on the worship of Talos isn’t permanent.
Fuck you all. Hail sithis
What about making your own army out of all the followers you have, the Companions, the Dark Brotherhood, Theives Guild, some wizards from the College of Winterhold, use some ties from all of the holds because your a thane of all the holds to possibly get some help , and maybe even call a legion of dovas, to make your army to destroy the Thalmor in the greatest war of Tamerial. (screw the Blades)
Fr the blades tried to kill my boy parthonax
Yeah man my characters are always morally “good” but do DB and TG questlines anyway simply so I have more power and influence over Skyrim. Gonna need it if all out war breaks out again.
ThePoison38 same, I am usually play a “good” warrior of the empire but do the dark brotherhood questline and kill the emperor because I feel like if I kill him it’s cannon for the next game in the series and I want to know what would occur after the games time period
You become Talos.
@@goldberg5024 at The same time though Parthernaxx(idk how to spell his name)murdered thousands of innocent people in the past and it’s kind of bittersweet because you don’t want to kill him because he helped you but at the same time if you don’t you’re not avenging the innocent souls he’s killed.
The Stormcloaks are right. Why? Because I wasn't on the god damn list!
And the Stormcloaks DIDN'T say you weren't with them.
and the stormcloaks didn't try to cut my fucking head off
Thijs Tharn To be fair, the Imperials ambushed the Stormcloaks outside Darkwater crossing (Stormcloak territory) and you got caught crossing the boarder at some point.
So it's really neither sides fault.
Zoobeamer I agree
Thijs Tharn I'm not really sure how though, you're wearing rags and I'm pretty sure the boarder isn't very close to Darkwater crossing. I'm not sure.
Usual Stormcloak here. I’ve only played one save which was on the Empire’s side. Just to see what’s what. It was fun! Loved it.
But let me explain my reasons for being a Stormcloak.
1. It’s not because I hate all races that aren’t Nords. I’ve played Dark Elves, Nords, Argonians, Khajiit who’ve all sided with the Stormcloaks. Sure, untraditional but whatever
2. The Stormcloaks at its point seems to want independence from an Empire that they feel has betrayed them and failed to do its job in protecting and serving the people of Tamriel. Kinda like that right to revolution thing.
3. Every province and people of Tamriel have a right to worship whomever they want. The Nords are very fond and firm in their belief of Talos. When an outside entity takes away your gods to worship. Things can get very hairy. Yes, even if playing a Dark Elf or Khajiit sometimes, I still believe in Talos.
4. I know the Empire really wants to get rid of the Thalmor. But, sad to say, they’re not really good at it. They’re the only reason why the Thalmor wander freely around Skyrim in *imperial* cities. In a Stormcloak run Skyrim, it’s hard to find them.
5. It is utterly dumb how some Stormcloaks treat other races, it is not right in the slightest. However, are we just going to completely forget that the Thalmor hate humans, and all races for that matter? I feel as if a unity between Stormcloaks and other races can be very beneficial to the cause. Everyone has a right to live and prosper in Skyrim if they so choose. Without persecution from both Nord or High Elf.
Stormcloaks fight for the right of Talos back, and to rid the failing Empire from Skyrim. But I do agree. Had Tullius and Ulfric just sat down, they would have a lot in common. And a unity amongst Stormcloak warriors and Imperial legions would completely annihilate the true enemy of Skyrim, the Thalmor.
I rest my case. Talos be with us. All hail to Ulfirc. Long live the Empire. Hail Sithis. Dovahkiin, fah hin kogaan mu draal.
Also.. I WASNT ON THE DAMN LIST!!!
You see, not many people side with the Imperials due to the Stormcloak influence at the beginning of the game which kinda bantered your decision in my opinion. Once you break down both, it becomes simple. You see, the Stormcloaks want to have Skyrim to their selves, meaning all beastfolk folk would be pushed out of Skyrim. The legion was kinda pushed into a deal with the Aldmeri Dominion as I see it, they simply did it for peace. The imperials want to let other folk into Skyrim, look at Windhelm, the Dark Elves are treated like dirt beneath your feet and the argonians aren't even allowed in the city, they reside on the docks. YET the Imperials want to take away the Nords right to worship their deity known as Talos, you see that was merely a deal with the Aldmeri Dominion to settle peace between the wavering land of Tamriel since they believed that a man cannot become a God. You see, Skyrim is similar to current events, really, but I changed the subject, now really what would you choose, Ulfric Stormcloak, a power-hungry man who was willing to kill a king just for the sake of a throne, or more or less General Tulius (more like Legate Rikke) to free the land of man who hates beastfolk. The imperials obviously wanted more power and then sided with the high elves and to protect Cyrodil but let's be real, the Aldmeri are just out for blood. In coclusion, I think we can all agree that the Thalmor are the problem. In the next game, we should be able to destroy the Thalmor in anyway possible.
AlyssaJennings the Imperials don't WANT to take away worship of Talos, they have to according to the White-Gold Concordat. Talos actually technically isn't even part of the Nordic pantheon, he's part of the former Imperial pantheon of Nine Divines. He was only very popular among the Nords being one himself. As soon as another war breaks out between the Empire and the Dominion the White-Gold Concordat becomes null, and the Thalmor would no longer be able to legally operate in the Empire. Then literally what argument do the Stormcloaks have against the Empire? Nothing.
I heard ulfric had a fair fight with the imperials and rightfully killed the king with shout, the empire got Mad and wrote up lies to arrest ulfric, and the empire allows elves to capture there own citizens, manu elves murders the citizens and practices necromancy on them, i also was on markarth and did a mission where i talked to one of the members of the foresworn, and they talked about how there young daughter had her had cut off and he was thrown in jail, i believe the stormcloaks is the best choice since they care for their own people and doesn't allow others to walk over them,stormcloaks doesn't allow there own citizens to be captured and used for necromancy.
I side with stormcloaks in the game, the empire is traitorous,corrupt, and cowardly, doesn't accept defeat.
the nords would be to nice if they just kicked the "bestfolk" out they need to kill them
I don't remember.. In oblivion were the altmers so arrogant and unlikable as in skyrim? However it will depend on how much time the events of elder scrolls 6 will take after skyrim. And of course they have to decide if the rebellion will be successfull or not.
AlyssaJennings You see you see you see you see you see you see you see you see you see you see
I respect both factions, they both have their arguments, but seeing the bigger picture I side with the Empire. Wish the civil war could have a diplomatic closing so we could avoid all those deaths
Season unending is the closest thing there is to that .
I've imagined a scenario where two blood brothers side with opposite factions, work their way up the ranks and then have a 1v1 that's similar to when Lucas was against Claus in mother 3. It would've been either heart wrenching, badass or both.
reasonable the empire is playing the long game while the stormcloaks are misguided fools
No way, I'm glad they make you live with your choice. Hard decisons make a game way more interesting.
Thousands of elves? Oh please, I am the dragonborn. I can swipe an entire army by myself..
forgets that a spell shield can counter most shouts
He has dragons. But whether or not a Tiber Septim 2.0 could hold back the Altmeri Domnionn with an army ofdragons is, I think, an open question.
Its all good me and Karjo can take em......right?
That's until you take an arrow to the knee then you'll become a normal city gaurd
Wuuthrad (I think I spelt that right)? Wuuthrad does a ton of damage against Elvish foes. Plus, Dragonborn has the ability to ride dragons and control them plus have the Blades. I would say unlike all the other protagonist of the Elder Scrolls series, none control all the factions and dragons. His shouts may be blocked by the magical shield but it won't last long against a dragon.
In my first play of this game, I sided with the Imperials, the first guy you meet is very empathetic(?). He really feels bad for you.
He feels bad for you, he saves you, after that, he gives you stuff... like... bro, that's a great guy.
ma boi hadvar