Does the TFT Item System Need a Rework? - Mortdog
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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My biggest change would be to remove Runaan's. It's only usable every other set it feels and with the artifacts more being much more unit specific, I would turn it into an artifact. Then make bow/cloak into red buff, bow/bow into rageblade and make an entirely new item with bow/rod
I think replace runaan's with a nerfed wit's end.
Bow rod should be nashors tooth since that's the ONLY item in the game that uses those besides rageblade. Rod hp should be something else. Maybe something based on rylize?
W take tbf. Makes total sense. But yh rod being rageblade is too core I guess. We'll see, they do say rageblade is a noob trap anyway so could be good.
@@zaclittlejohn2701bow rod into nashar make ap carries too rod needy. They want you to have a chance to make offensive ap item from tank components
@@huyngo3086true i agree with this 3-4 rod needed if the ap item need rod.
IMO There is definitely a distinct reason. Rabadons is good all around especially in short fights. But if you have giga frontline and lots of time to stack archangels it pretty obviously dominates, you can get like 300+ AP.
Also, archangels has different components. If I want to build a guinsoo + shojin + AP item on my azir, I would rather go something that doesnt require 3 rods like rabadons, opting for archangels or jewelled gauntlet is better not even due to the item's effects.
I see the distinct reason as "what does this item provide?" Rabadon and archangels are literally just give damage. Unless the ability is a defensive ability that scales with ap, then they have a difference, but for most cases, you're probably not building archangels on a frontline tank. That is what I feel he means.
I could see a change to archangels be like instead of 25 ap every 5 seconds it becomes whenever you cast, gain 10 ap and a shield that scales with mana cost (or something like it). Then you actually have a reason to build one over the other.
This actually isn't as true as you think, because some of the power budget in AA is in the 15 mana. So they actually just perform pretty closely across the board. AA is actually better in a super quick fight, beacuse it means 1 or 2 less autos to cast, and then better in a long, drawn out fight. It's also generally easier to build. Deathcap is the generically stronger item, which is slightly stronger in most fights, but more difficult to build.
my only problem with the 2 items is that one is usually a lot better than the other from set to set rather than by the comp you play
The lead designer of the game might have a better understanding of the items in the game than you.
I like arcángel because the little numbers goes UP. Thats it.
zephyr shrinkray zzrot, ga, rapidcanon, red buff, ice cone,
I remembered they changed glove + spat from assassin to lagoon in midset and it f me up for a whole week.
same with jazz spat being craftable with SPAT + CLOAK, but then they changed it to country
I don't get the Archangel part tbh. There's a difference between building for scaling and building for immediate value. Like Guinsoo's vs Red Buff. Depending on the comp/characters you're running, and the state of the lobby, there is a genuine thought process to what is more suited. Especially when consider if fights are fast or slow.
Yeah, generally archangels isnt good early for that reason. You just aren’t going to get full value, but thats something you should always think about versus rabadons deathcap. Do i just want the full AP now? Or do I want to wait for my unit to actually scale up.
There's also the fact that getting two of the same component is more difficult than two different components due to how the item bag works. So there is the consideration of do you slam archangels which is slightly weaker at the start of the fight but stronger later or do you hold out for hopefully getting a second rod for a D.Cap so your cary can have that immediate damage?
If anything, D.Cap is the one that lost its purpose due to them removing the AP multiplier on it a few sets back, as its purpose used to be that it was the counterpart to JG/IE where you pick consistent high damage over potentially inconsistent higher damage, especially back when JG was just spell crit and 25% crit chance and not just AP IE.
@@xanithdegroot5407 Well yeah, duh. By all means if you wanna slam Archangels, do it. If you want to play for tempo and just slam something, then you have to do it, but I’m talking about whether you have the option to take dcap or Archangels. Both items have their pros and cons. Archangels kills tear and makes it so you cant make a mana item if you don’t already have one and dcap kills double rod making it so you cant go for spark if you don’t have it.
I feel like he means that the overall use of both items is just, give damage. One is immediate the other is over time. That is the only difference between the two. Just like steracks and titans, they both give 50% ad and they both give you survival stats one is hp the other is armor and mr. Yes there is a difference between the stats that they give but they practically function the same, giving survivability, steraks being worse for most cases as titans gives you ap as well.
For rabadons and archangels, the difference between the two is one gives damage immediately while the other gives more over time, yes there is a difference between the items but not much of a difference to really be unique. Now if archangels was change to whenever you cast, gain a shield (most likely should scale with max mana). Then the items fill two completely different purposes. One is straight damage the other is survival.
the problem is long fights borderline dont exist at mid-late game. no fights ever reach the point where archangels out DPS' rabadon before its already decided.
whereas for early game, it still wont win you fights most of the time, and tear is highly valued component since redemption BB shojin shiv and adaptive are far better slams worth greeding for still.
its easy to simply look at DPS, but you need to consider when you are slamming, what other items you give up on when slamming it, what components you can mitigate and so on.
In my opinion it is good to have kinda similar items, since if we look at the stats on most units there are like 3 good items and the rest are just trash. So for a melee carry if titians, bt and a damage item are bis, then steracks, being similar to titans, would also be good. This minimises getting punished for getting unlucky with the items. Also Steraks is better if you have a high hp champion, let's say an ad bruiser, or gnar with the driad stacks, but Titans having its ap almost removed has lost its identity, it used to be good on champs with good hybrid scaling. So yes they should make items more distinct, but not to the point where getting one over the other gets you a 6 place over a 3 place.
There are countless fun builds that only become possible because of the scaling effect of Archangels, I really don't want to see those kinds disappear. The "time bomb" offensive item that turns the match into a clicking clock is almost required to win when playing defensive front heavy comps like 8 bruisers. Without that Archangels on Sylas he might survive long enough to dance around, but he won't end up taking out any backline units.
Yeah I want to keep my archangel 8 bruiser tahm kench
I feel like bow+bow should be rageblade (fast AS), bow+rod should be shiv (AP related) , bow+belt should be red buff (belt = anti heal) and bow+tear should be nashors (casting related)
that's awful
@@eldigan431thx for the elaboration, have a nice day.
Thematically, he's got a point though.
There WAS a pretty clear distinction between Sterak's and Titan's, and that was the AP bonus from Titan's. With the earlier Titan's nerf cutting AP gains in half, there's a lot less difference between the two to the point where it barely matters at all.
Might be too late in the set to adjust the numbers so much, but the proper way to give a clear distinction between the two items would be to have Titan's give equal AD/AP stacking bonuses again, and then nerfing the AP values of every potential Titan's user instead of nerfing Titan's like we have currently.
or just make titan's give omnivamp instead of defensive stats when it finishes stacking. Sterak will be defensive choice each time, but if you go titan's your melee carry can explode even on full stacks
i think the issue is that titans gives too much ap compared to any other ad melee item, to the point where you would almost always play titans over other items - i think i agree with equal ad/ap stacking bonuses but just nerf both values - have titans as a more ap heavy defensive choice compared to other items
i dont know if i would reduce the number of stacks needed to stack it or just reduce the amount gained from each stack though, like by not changing the values but max 20 instead of 25 stacks can stack faster to gain armor mr bonus but less final stats
Most of the time, you will make titans over steraks because titans gives more than what steraks gives, they both give 50% ad and tank stats on a condition. They don't give the same stats but do almost the same thing with titans giving ap as well while steraks doesn't. That's why people build it more. Same with archangels and deathcap. The only difference between the two is how they give the stats, one gives all the stats immediately while the other has to wait to ramp up over time with the possibility of out-scaling. But they still functionality do the same thing, give damage. Now a change to archangels could be, whenever the unit casts, gain a shield (scales with mana cost or something) instead of gaining ap and then we have a clear distinction between the two.
You can't have two items competing over the same functions as eventually one will always be better than the other.
dude nerfing the ap value of a lot of champions for a single item is nuts
@@Willie6785 Tbf Yone really didn't have a right to have such an illegal AP value on his shield to begin with.
Why no one is talking about Runaan? Nobody is building Runaan unless it's the only item you can slam
It doesn't have a distinct purpose
That's what I thought before, but it is a great item. It basically is a plus 1 unit if you think about it, although it is very reliant to rageblade sometimes
It used to be so much fun back when it applied on-hit effects, now it's basically dead. After the changes it used to somewhat work on champions that had scaling AD like the trundle from a few sets back, but that was about the best we got out of it. Really wish they'd make it apply on-hits again or just remove it altogether.
@allengay7060 rageblade? Sounds like a bad use of runaans, u want more ad because the bolts trigger on certain abilities, like Kai sa who gets 3 or 4 shots per cast. They had to nerf this interaction with Zaun Gunner Jinx like 3 sets ago, 5 bolts per cast to 3. I feel like that's runaans issue they are never happy with cool interactions for it like removing on-hits or nerfing ad caster interactions
Runaan's screams artifact to me with the new take on artifacts being much more specific. There's been too many sets where Runaan's is just a bad item to build and never BIS on anyone
titans is good on 3 star yone because he already has a lot of HP, and can use the AP with his shield. steraks is good on kayn, because AP isn't useful on him, he could use some HP at 2 star, and usually with heavenly comps, altruist, or unified resistance you already have Armor / MR.
important to note though steraks scales with max hp so it's pretty good on high hp units
Makes Steraks scales off HP. Gives 150hp and 10AP and 10AP.
Effect ratio per %health lost max 25AD/25AP at 30%HP (OR)
BaseDamage% 10AD/10AP gain per 1000hp. Gains 500HP 3 secs Decaying when hit below 30%
but ngl Rod is just too OP rn, you can build Guinsoo, you can build Archangel, you can build Morello, you can build Crownguard when playing Umbral, or remember when Spark was so OP before and everyone talked about it, glad that its less common now?
I don't think the whole system needs a rework, but there are handful of items off the top of my head that just don't do enough in comparison to the other items. Specifically Runaan's, Sterak's, DB, Deathcap, Knight's Vow, Steadfast, and Crownguard. These items just get outshined and rarely/never BIS. Compare those to IE/JG, BB/Shojin, GS, Bramble/Claw, etc.
Playing flexibly is great and all and that's why items like Helm are awesome, but at the end of the day there's like 30-50% of items every set that basically just aren't BIS on any character and feel terrible to slam vs what you *could* build
Edit: that all said, slamming has never felt less punishing somehow lol
When do I build either Sterak's over Titan's? Easy question. Do I have more bows and vests, or swords and belts?
I know, I know, that's not what Mort is getting at, but in reality that's what it comes down to sometimes. I think having a bit of overlap in item identity isn't necessarily bad especially when the items needed are so different that you can build it from different spots.
can we not balance the game around some dumbasses who didn't play the game for 10 sets and returns and actually balance for the current players and remove guinsoos, blue and titans
I think arcangel is an easy fix, just change the flat skaling to an exponential skaling. So its way worse in de first 10 seconds and way better in the last 10 seconds then rabadons.
I don't get Mort's reason for wanting to change archangel's. The difference in which you create one in the other most likely is item economy, looking purely at what they do in a vaccum seems inaccruate.
I actually think rabadon and archangel being fairly similar feels good. You can build either and still be confident about it
Wait he's saying there's no diff between steraks and titans??? Titan's is best on melee units that use both AD and AP since it gives both. Steraks is best on AD melees that have a lot of natural HP. You'd never want to build a steraks on sylas over a titan's for example
I like deathcap and archangels. they both just need slight number tweaks to pushed into their respective roles. I feel like stridebreaker needs buff, warmogs needs rework its a bit lame, and yeah obviously steraks is in the worst spot. maybe give steraks holder and aoe explosion when they die. that way its like the opposite of a titans where you only want them to cast once and do the most dmg as possible as opposed to survive the whole fight
champions and traits change literally every set so they change core systems like every few months... lol.
Set 13 will be Foodfight Tactics and remember this comment
Maybe just turn Sword + Belt into Titanic Hydra (used to be belt+ bow in sets 1-2)
I only build starics if I have a BT but even then I rather have BT GA than BT starics
If u think about it sword + armor should be titans and armor + bow should be edge of night
And yet, since I’ve been playing in set 8, item stats and even recipes have changed quite a bit
Archangels purpose is to not waste 2 rods lmao
But how about just having multiple options to build a certain item type instead of being constrained to only a single combination? You won't always get Bow + Vest to build a Titan's, but you might get a Sword + Belt to build Sterak's.
I fully agree with you. I also disagree with him on saying that if you buff steraks people wont build titans. They actually synergise really well and steraks + titans + bloodthirster is a staple frontline carry build. Id take that over having 2 steraks or 2 titans unless I had gargantuan resolve
yeah like bis lee sin when was strong was steraks titans bt, not bt double steraks or double titans
I like most items rn but good god, runnaan's has to go. Item does nothing
Guardbreaker is another item that needs to get reworked
my thing rn is how steraks replaces wormogs as the prime more health item on units with more then like 3.3k HP
it feels like sterakes is just a better wormogs that consumed a sword if playing AP and laves a belt for Morello or redemption
getting some kind of rework/different item for wormogs would be fun, as the only time I wanna build it is if I have 3 belts and no good slams
Steraks hp good for bruiser or goliath
I actually agree with Mort here on the Deathcap vs Archangels. Should make Deathcap decay on each cast and Archangels grow on each cast as if stacking tears. Make Deathcap for units that ult once or twice, make archangels for machine gun casters
What needs a rework is M...g
I miss Luden very much
I think hand of justice needs to be looked at - it isnt optimal anywhere just a tear killer
yeah it literally fills the same position as bt, just as a crit item, a bit more stats traaded for the shield, but in general its worse unless if you need the crit
Why does there have to be a distinct reason for every item? A complete unique identity?
I feel like if it were that way, players would cling onto BIS even more than they are already. Having the option to go rod+rod or rod+tear helps flexibility and slam-bility.
they create nuanced situations where you have to read the room whether you should slam an item or greed, the same reason there's unique items at all. players clinging to bis is no different than forcing a contested comp. why should the game lose its depth/core mechanics because players haven't learned them yet?
For the same reason you wouldn't put tank items on a ap carry? The point of each item is to provide effects to your characters that match what they do. Titans and steraks do practically the same thing, give 50% ad give tank stats. Doesn't matter what conditions they need to achieve it, they still do the same function, with titans being better as it also gives 25 ap. If one item is absolutely better than the other, why would you build the item in the first place?
Same with the archangels and the deathcap. They both literally give damage. The only difference is one gives the damage in full immediately while the other gives it over time. The only situation in which more ap doesn't give more damage is if it is placed on a tank ability that scales with ap then the ap gives more defense than offense. But most of the time, you're aren't putting a archangels on a tank that is going to die quickly, so it ends up just being more damage on ap carries.
greed BIS and die classic 😂
Archangel is great on shield backline users. Had a great game with shojin, and 2 archangels on Janna. Though the first 4 stages, janna was unkillable, and that was very fun. But that’s about it
Honestly feel like both Hextech Gunblade and Hand of Justice needs reworked or replaced. Hextech allows you to heal ally champs, but with the current set, that bit of healing means nothing and the omnivamp does really feel helpful. HoJ meanwhile is better, especially if you get Idealism, but BT is just better. You could take HoJ for the crit+omnivamp, but you usually only be Crit on Reaper champs now, and Reaper 2 provides that 20% Crit chance you would usually want from HoJ. If you got a Kayn with Infinity Edge and Last Whisper, BT is just a better choice. I think other than when the set first came out, I have not once seen Hextech or HoJ be used, especially over BT.
Bring back ZZrod
the main problem with archangels is that it scales too quickly when compared to rabadons. After 10 seconds it has already outscaled rabadons in terms of raw AP. (obviously some adjustment in the calculations have to be made to keep the bonus damage passiv from rabadons into account)
Tbh if steraks also gave ap when dropping below then ppl might build it as an anti burst variation of titans where titand has good use for offensive/long fights, steraks can be anti burst dmg version
I heavily disagree with almost everything. Moving a recipe to a more logical one wouldn't be something confusing in my eyes, even better, since it cuts maaany LoL references from the builds. The option to right-click components should be enough for me to remember, but if it isn't, a button to access the item table with all the recipes and descriptions would help by a lot (could be added next to team planner, for example). For items, the only item that needs imidtate removal for the reasons Mort provided is Hurricane. This item has been a drought since idk when, it relies on attack triggers on ability way to heavily, but even then it gets outclassed by most other ad items.
I think that another item to think about is hextech gunblade. The issue with it is that it's only viable on DoT champions for it to be truly effective. Sure a burst of healing is great from a big damaging spell like Hwei as an example but at that point it's basically like a weak BT for whoever the lowest HP ally is.
And it's only made worse because Altruist exists particularly for THIS SET. Syndra and Teemo are the main DoT champions (and I say that since Syndra has a long ability). The lack of DoT champions makes this item have a lack of identity and until there are more viable users of this item other than AP users/DoT units, then it's basically a weak BT.
They need to rework gold income not items. Way too many games you hit everything and have a hundred gold to spend at the end or go level 10 and 3* 5 costs. Dial back all the encounters giving items & gold
The best use case for Sterak's in the current set is Storied Champion Garen. His HP scaling benefits from the delayed HP buff and he is an AD carry. Now, I would still also build a Titan's on him, too, and combine both with Dclaw for the regen and MR.
I like that Sterakk's can be a shitty tank item if you're stuck with a worthless sword. Having a 3 item tank, even if one of those items is Sterakk's, is soooo much better than a 2 item tank with a dead AD item on no one.
who miss the old shogin 18% of your mana pool on every hit 😭😭😭😭
1 thing hasnt changed since the set 1 is the tg bug. I cant believe how it still can give same items 2 rounds in a row or every 2-3 rounds.
Remove qss lol
I build streaks over titans whenever I have a champ that wants both and already have one of them on the champ 😂
Angels/Guinsoos/Titans are fine. It's more so steraks that is a bit out of place bcuz of how it works
Titans was for units that have any valuable AP scaling alongside AD (alongside some general tankiness/sustain). But then the AP part of it was nerfed so if anything I feel thats what made it lose its identity
Bow bow ginsoos would be so good. i really dont like rfc
id Like archangels over death cap the ininfite scaling is really nice. on the other hand with things balanced for blue buff amount of ap i think archangles is actually busted any neeeds to be removed. but id still be sad to see it go.
I love archangels for tanks though. If you are building an attackspeed carry and you have left over tear and rod, itll carry you through mid game.
I dont agree with this one, I could think in a thousand situations that justify both items.
zekes revert leaked
I mean arcangels is for long drawn out matches whilst deathcap is for immediate burst damage
Streaks and titans depend on what items you have
some items definitely need some looks at
Its always interesting, seeing the game dev POV on the systems inside the game. Honestly, I greatly appreciate the thought that Mortdog gives to the game as a person who plays the game, and at the same time develops it, since that is seldom seen in any sphere (at a relatively high level). I constantly see his suggestions challenged, but he really takes with improvement in mind, and wanting the game to be progressed in a positive direction. There is a lot to take into consideration with any changes to the game, and especially with how drastic some changes are, but never the less I feel that any change made is made with the best intention in mind rather senseless addition made just to garner favor with the community. I hope, with as hard is it, to push TFT into new directions and challenge players with new mindsets and perspectives on the game, while still remaining true to the core principles of the games. Edit: It's a quick edit, but I don't want to give all the credit to Mort, but also the entire team, values are important and happy that I feel that team has the same mindset moving forward. I just want to see the game keep in that wonderful direction, and challenge players to really open up and gain a fresh, creative prospective patch over patch.
i mean i think the bloodthirster argument isnt valid, like blood thirster and hoj are very similar, while steraks and titans are more dissimilar,
Also a big difference between steraks and titans is still the ap, generally steraks also is better on units that dont scale well with ap, like kayn, steraks is (should) be prefered over titans
This similarity between BT, HoJ, and Gunblade is very surface level. Play enough melee carries and you'll be able to tell they are completely different items.
BT is for "I want my guy to survive for as long as possible"
HoJ is for "I want my burst carry to have some healing but not enough to sacrifice damage for it"
Gunblade is for "I'm a scaling backline carry and there's enough splash hitting me that I need some healing"
Replace belt glove with scaling health atmas/titanic
Unit gains scaling crit based off health or something
If the whole reason to build archangels over dcap is to scale later into the fight, why not reduce the base AP and have the AP every 5 seconds start low and increase exponentially? like 10 -> 20 -> 30 -> 60 -> 90 - > 150
interesting idea, note the other reason is that certain units such as janna and hwei have portions of ability that cannot scale with crit or damage amp so archangels is better than jg or rabadons, dependent though because they still need to scale
also may add too much value to haveing archangels and all frontline
@@dachosens1 Yeah, I understand that the item could be broken on certain units depending on how their abilities are calculated. It's why they have to tweak certain items between sets because of how champions are designed.
archangel is good for long fights and for support units
yep, also for units that have mechanics that dont scale off of damage amp/crit - common example is janna but hwei is another one with his heal portion
I fells that the problem with steraks or titans IN THIS SET is the lack of "bruisers" on the set, there's 2 character that I think covers that role, riven and sett, other than them, I want Lee sin to have damage not so much survivability, so not usually I build steraks on him, because titans give armor (and Mr when stacked) but mainly the ad
Gnar?
@@Janav_Gupta oh yeah, 3... 3 characters, which you can still build ap, he stacks more ad with it anyways
I build steraks on champs that scale very well with health. Often in combination with bloodthirster or dragons claw or redemption.
But if you have additional resistances from Titan's, then you can use that health better too.
My solution is to lower the base ad. Add base ap equal to the new amount of base ad for flex. Play into the health identity of the item. Increase ad and ap gained by the item once the buff procs.
@@rhodexlx1659 in combination they are strong yea
That seems more like a balancing change. It doesn't seem to fix the issue of who would prefer building this item, especially since now it has AP, just like Titan's.
@@rhodexlx1659 Yorick is a good example. Sylas. One should be more ad focused and the other ap.
Gunga ginga
IQ lower than room temp
i think they should merge mr and armor, as right now every item that give one either give a trivial amount, give the other or give hps. I feel like it dont matter anymore, and i would prefer to have an other tank stat, maybe regen or heal/shield amplification