Mortdog Discusses the Future of Items Being Removable in TFT
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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its easy to fix. Give remover just in PvE rounds, so player can remove items just 4-5 times in one game and doesnt effect pvp rounds
Another fix I can think of is something like an "ethereal remover", you get a remover that is spent after using once, but recharges next round.
@@Warriorfalli believe that plays into the situation mort is trying to avoid with shroud/zephyr. I really like the idea of it being available on pve rounds
As much as I like this I think it lowers skill expression but I'm not going to want to practice thieves gloves moving simulator every game personally.
I was gonna comment the same thing
I think once/twice per stage is more fair.
It could be something like support items can't be removed to get rid of those shroud zephyr issues
Can we add a counter to removers and reforgers
So they take up less item bench space
Feels awful when you travel with removers on bench because half your items are stuck in an orb on home board
we went from "items staying on champions from carousel" to "removing items anytime" its crazy
Some mechanics are just plain stupid
Golden remover feels amazing. Honestly, I'd rather just see Zephyr/Shroud removed if it means we could have things like the ability to freely remove items. It would probably help flex play as well, half the reason you lock onto a comp is that if you can't pivot completely within a turn or two, you just lose SO much health. If you can freely remove things without having to straight up sell everything, it might allow for a more gradual pivot if for example you saw you ended up with Kaisa items instead of Ashe items.
agreed!!!
I love stuffs like Zephyr/Shroud but I'm totally down for this trade off. It would make the game so much more enjoyable and free, opening so many possibilities.
i agre with you sooo hard! i was never a fan of zephyr and shroud anyways so good riddance to them LOL. i dont think i can play ranked anymore since im spoiled by the golden remover in pengus lol
TG is also a problem but yea i feel like if they give one remover to the player every stage it should be ok
Agreed. Mostly because zephyr and shroud always feels bad, while rarely feeling good.
Also, the reason why assassins was bad, was not because of backline access, but because zephyr/shroud made your life a living hell. You either positioned for assassins or for the shroud/zephyr.
The amount of min-maxing would go crazy if this was allowed
One of the things maybe is : This item CANT BE removed like zephyr i like the idea, maybe u cant remove some core items or maybe u get "some uses" and not golden one that have infinite uses
Items that shouldn't be affected by golden remover should be Radiant and Ornn gloves. Moving a radiant or ornn gloves sounds too OP and can't be balanced. For example of how it can be abused: If the gloves rolled tank items it goes to tanks, if it rolled ap items it goes to ap carries, if it rolled ad items it goes to ad carry.
@@kiryuin0030 Correct me if I'm wrong, but when thieves gloves items are removed, I think they roll new items.
@@pinjakrinope
@@pinjakrii correct you because you're wrong
@@pinjakri was changed this set (or previous set idk exactly)
I really love the early game implications of golden remover, being able to do comps with shared units like kindred holding blue buff is really nice
I agree the problem is the possible min-maxing. Too many items become far more effective with inifnite removers and will punish players who don't abuse the mechanic.
Even among craftables we have tank items, especially Gargoyles, Ionic and Evenshroud, that can be swapped to whichever tank is on the correct side.
Sounds a little too micro-heavy to me.
Fact is you guys just got used to Pengus Party having a golden remover.
Bruh it's been for a couple days only.
@@LeaksHater Yeah, and we got used to it for just a couple of days. Its like when URF is available and we played so much of it, when we played rank something just felt off because of the distinct contrast between the two.
@@BeJolly3 it was the opposite issue for me. Urf was so fast paced, I genuinely hated it every time I gave it a try lol.
@@LeaksHater Aram used to be my go to mode when I wanted to play league but not spend 30+min but felt really crap when games actually went on for 30+. Then Arena got introduced and now thats my go to short mode.
@@LeaksHater because ur brain is slow.
As a ranked sweat, I love the golden remover of Pengus party
I'm just a hyperoll player, but at least I'm more willing to play pengu's party rather than normals because of the golden remover, if you're currently running an ap comp but you got ad items only, you can still put the items on them and wait for your ad carry, plus shroud and zephyr now are just support items which are much more rare to get
PLEASEE DO IT, other auto battler like auto chess and (RIP) chess rush also make their item removable and it isn't changing anything (maybe their item is less unique and what not) but not having to worry with slamming an item on a unit make the game thousands of time more enjoyable. I'm genuinely fine if someone can use it for an advantage (zephyr, etc.) because I can also do it too!
zephyr is a support item anyway, and u already fixed the thieves gloves problem (the one that give u better item later in the game).
they can just remove zephyr shroud and tg. i agree. i love having a golden remover! we need to start a petition imo LOL
After they introduced it this set, I really enjoyed every chance I got to use golden remover or have one of the encounters. But, since playing a lot of pengu's party, I feel like it shouldn't be available all the time. It removes the risk/payoff of slamming items early and as he mentioned, it can cause frustration with zephyrs/shrouds etc. I somewhat liken it to pandora's items, and we all remember what happened in set 9 when everyone had access to that all the time.
This would also kill lose streaking, cuz every lbody can easily make strongest and make augments like salvage bin beyond broken
I dont how this would kill lose streaking in any way. If anything it would make lose streaking more viable since you can slam items mid combat to save hp with no downsides
Just give people 1 or 2 magnetic removers at PVE rounds.
I like the idea of being guaranteed a single remover after creep round #2. It would still maintain the cost/decision of early slamming, but allow for smoother earlygame transitions (and discourage greedy gameplay) for say, slamming BB+JG on kindred early instead of holding them on a teemo so that you can swap to syndra later without selling kindred
I've been doing full item pivots between 3 carries in Malphite encounters. Part of me enjoys the skill expression in this, where I can purposely slam D Claw on my cornered Syndra vs Lillia for one round. But the other side of me thinks it should stay as an encounter specific thing. If optimized correctly, you're potentially asking players to do roll downs, scout, position, and redo 6+ items per round for perfect boards. There simply isn't enough time on the clock for it.
Honestly i like it when it happens. Not sure how I would feel if this was happening every game. I guess there would be too much freedom for organizing your items. An item rework would solve this problem.
Also the biggest loss this set is heavenly zzrot. There's just too many support items now, literally unplayable. Isn't that fun to allow people play the game the way the devs didn't think of?
I, among probably few. Are using golden remover at it’s highest ability… and its at the same power as a prismatic augment in it’s best of time, maybe even better than a prismatic. The ability to slam components on units level 1 with no downside, thief gloves will always give it’s best items to it’s best user, moving shroud and Zypher to blow opponents out, slamming artifacts or support items to later move them to high tier units with no downside.
I had people calling me a tryhard and an obnoxious player for this in Pengu’s and in Master.
I do believe this should stay with the fun mode.
Imagine having to move 4 different full builds because thieves gloves got BiS on these champs, having to place sunfire at the start near enemy healing tank, being able to easily screw over fortune players, having to put zephyr and shroud every round on a diff champ etc. I much rather not have it
Easier item removing opens up a ton of issues. Much more than most people would expect. But maybe there is a smart solution for that.
Honestly, I'd like something as simple as a single, guaranteed item remover some time during the game.
no, the constraint helps to control tradeoff. also we've removed zephyr as a buildable item.
I like the idea of making it like the Double Up token. You get a remover a stage for free. Feel like that limits how much optimization there is, while also allowing for feelsbads to exist less.
ive thought that having golden remover should be in the gam efor a long time and was surprised to see it in the new pengu party mode!! im definitely all for adding permanent golden remover tbh. it kind of sucks playing ranked now after being spoiled by the golden remover in pengus party LOL
Wouldn't it add skill aspect to the game ?
I mean with zenith switch from one screen to other not only chaning positions of your units but also by switching items
It'd be pretty cool
Also having item on a carry till you get someone would be better
Like i dont wanna sell my 3 star 1 cost to give 2 star 4 cost my items only for the sake of selling that one unit
The reason why it feels amazing and its enjoyable is cause it makes the game easier.
I think adding this as a feature similar to pengu would be a horrible change. It is fine as an encounter / augment. But to have access to a golden remover at any point means there is no punishment for slamming items.
One of the many strategies of tft is knowing when to slam items, who to slam on, and risking it and hoping you can remake the unit.
If it's going to be added, add it to for fun modes, or norms. The game is already immensely easy, no need to make it any easier in ranked. Anyone reading this comment can reach challenger just by watching streamers, it really is that simple.
I feel like slamming items should stay somewhat of a calculated risk, being able to move around items a bunch kinda removes a part of strategy if you ask me.
It's complicated because if people can remover anything at any time then the RNG of components has a much bigger impact since you should almost always slam in that case
how is this a thing being looked at when leaving uncollected orbs on your board when you travel is a thing? is the dev team just anti-fortune cashout?
Make it a portal atleast for the next set or soon would be ideal. If portals stay which i feel they should, or maybe that´s already decided since they have been on a while, does not have to be the main portal can be just a yes or no vote "Golden Remover added this game" and either majority gets their vote or random like the portals.
You get a golden remover at raptors (4-7) but it disappears as soon as that round ends.
U guys actually tried ledgends without even testing them ,why u can't let the people swap the items without selling the units, i can bet free item removal is not going to unbalanced like ledgends
i think everyone could have a silver remover which removes the items with unlimited uses but you cant put the removed item back to that champion so minmaxing doesn't become so easy
Just make all the PvE Rounds drop a normal Remover 100%? or is that to much
its sad when u chose the augment golden remover and thn the malphite encounter appears.. u play the game basically without an augment
i dont think this is healthy for the game and sure thing u guys dont want tft to be this easy.. part of the game is to make decisions and with that change u make it 10 times easier and risk free
I feel like there should be a set amount of removers given to everyone every game like one at stage 3 one at stage 5. Golden remover every game is way too casual to be healthy but knowing you will get at least 1 remover instead of hoping to get remover allows enough freedom
maybe a middle ground is gain an item remover after every player combat or something instead of infinite uses
It feels really good to play and also could be used as an added skill to the game, being able to use the golden remover properly
middle ground is to have an expected remover on 3rd carousel
How about golden remover but only get to use once a round, a great middle ground
i think when u complete champs maybe it should pop them out
if its too good maybe only allow one free remove per round.
I think the golden remover is a bit too much tbh.
No honestly, this is one of these Urf mode debates in Lol.
Just give us 1 regular remover at the start of the game
giv 1 remover at the start of the game
I would love it, one of the most frustrating things is to play items on a pladeholder u need in ur comp to never find that Unit again so u cant move the items to ur main carry. Thieve gloves might be one of the best items maybe to strong early though if u could just move it to any Unit Which benefits it
i agree. they could just remove tg zephyr and shroud if theyre too cheesy
this change would make the game SO much worse for anything playing seriously
I agree. It is fine as an encounter or an augment, because at least that way you're giving up something.
But if it is given out for free like pengu party, tft just becomes easier. And the game is already extremely easy.
Yea I've played pengu's party a lot lately and it definitely feels like golden remover adds complexity to the game rather than simplifying it. Moving items around 1 cost-> 2 cost->3 cost ->4 cost carries is a clear example, rather than having the classic item holder in the early game->transitioning to your comp.
Now all of a sudden for every comp you need to know who's the carry for every tier(cost) of champions(as you 2 star them you move items around), rather than just 2.
And I haven't even touched TG cheese, zephyr, shroud
Pengu's Party is an amazing gamemode! Also love golden remover, I think making it have limited uses, or have a set of items that can't be removed like shroud or zephyr would be one way to balance it. It's so fun to play around and min max because you're not selling 2 star units and losing fighting power just to put items on your carry or lose hp to waiting on finding your 2 star carry. You don't lose item value either when your items are not sitting on the bench collecting dust
Honestly, i got used to just playing with item holders. Having like a 2 star that carries the first few rounds when im playing a vertical like fated or story weaver. But hey, more removers means you can make full use of your item and traits which is pretty strong. I agree that a middle ground would be best
HOT TAKE, remove removers from normal drops in PVE, with how the loot tables work it feels bad. Make golden remover a prismatic augment, Give golden remover and a thiefs gloves or something.
Basically, make removers much more rare, so it feels better if you hit the augment to be more flexible / slam items, but you're punished late game for being down a prismatic augment (Maybe you can only get it in the first 2 stages)
IMO, I like the way it is now. Slamming items vs holding items is an interesting skill decision to make, and the additional option of giving golden remover as an augment/other special "boost" a player can potentially get feels good when you get it.
Think the solution is you can't add items after the round has started. Prevents people from abusing it, while allowing people to optimize their team. Also, Chibi Nautilus when?
Sounds pretty bad tbh. What about big econ trait cashouts / whole board transitions? Sometimes your roll down + positioning takes the whole planning phase and you end up slamming items at the start of combat. Or cheesing stuff like Zephyr / Eternal winter. I get your thought process, but I feel like it limits skill expression too much.
@@vastnumber the point is to avoid cheesing stuff like zephyr and shroud. I agree whole board transitions and cash outs may be more difficult, but either it's even a higher expression of skill or you have to plan to tank an extra round. Just a thought obviously, since I'm not the one to make the decision.
this also doesnt solve the problem of TG/TG augments getting a huge buff. You dont need to see opponents to know where TGs go
This is a great change would strengthen fast 9s even more being able to freely switch your carry without having to sell you can dump off your items on all the 5 costs for free
well, i like the strategy where you holder cannot be in your futur comp or you need to find another copy for when you need to move the object. Feels like it's what TFT is all about, finding holder until you do you final comp
Why don’t just make the remover cost gold or put it on a cd like double up
There's two things that can be cool, 1 would be that pve rounds let you remove 1 item from a champ and 2 would be a infinite remover for components, not items
i think either item remover with x charges per stage (might be cringe) or as others suggested, remover on pve rounds would be good. its nice to have flexibility of moving items, but i fear too much of it would be unfun at higher levels of optimization
I don't really like the idea, item economy and slamming is one of the things that make out a skilled tft player and is important to understand
Mate, they've changed so much about the game at this point you can barely call it TFT
I agree. The reason why it feels enjoyable is cause anything that makes anything easier feels enjoyable or pleasant.
It would remove any consequences of slamming items. I can just slam my items whenever I want and not have to worry cause I can just remove it anyways.
TFT is already extremely easy, why make it even easier?
I think a 3 times use remover would be fine. It would eliminate the constant spamming or the remover while allowing adjustments later
would be nice is PVE dropped a golden remover that lasted 1 round
Yeah I agree. On one hand it can be really annoying to be locked into items in certain situations, and the ability to move around items could genuinely open up MORE strategy. But at the same time being able to always move around items constantly could be really obnoxious, such as being able to slam items without worrying about the consequences of the character they're on since they'll just end up on higher tier characters for free anyways, or hyper optimizing thieves gloves/shrouds/zephyrs.
having a golden remover would be awesome and i think the actual gameplay mechanic to solve the issue of zephyrs and such would be to instantly lock item of the champions from receiving items as soon as the round starts BEFORE seeing your opponent
this makes crazy rolldowns that are already insanely hard even harder. As the "correct" allocation of time during the rolldown is to place ur items last and often in the 2-3 seconds after you see ur opponent and you can no longer star up units for that round
Ok maybe if you do this you make thieves gloves an artifact and create a new core item. You can up its power by making it always 2 core items (catered if need be) That's way it's harder to optimize.
Maybe then Something like only core items can be removed? Artifacts and supports cannot.
or just lock thieves gloves itself
Standard TFT should not reward slamming every game
There's not only the flexibility to consider, but also items like eon or qss that can be used in a more reacting way with this
Stop removing aspects of the game that make people have to actually think just because low elo players cant remember they put a sword on some random unit or keep track of what they need.
you've put all your items on your early carry and you're looking for a winstreak. Suddenly, the "6 prismatic items for one round" encounter appears and u have to put them on your filler champions while the enemies that were gathering econ can now stomp you. One of the examples where not having a remover is counter-intuitive and punishes you even if you play it right, while nobrainer players can benefit from it not being in the game.
pros and cons, as mort said i guess xD
@@prapraa3791 perfect response
@@prapraa3791 Well, then for that encounter they should just add a remover. And that's an encounter you're speaking about, something that rarely/barely happens, not the actual game. What happens when encounters are gone, is being able to move around items still a viable option? In my opinion, no. Because then like OP said, you're just handicapping the game so you don't get punished lmao. It's unfortunate when that encounter pops up, but if you removed the fact that you don't get item locked for the next sets, you're just handicapping the game and not adding any real consequences. Then the game just goes to shit
@@krash6951 same thing happens with augments that give you artifacts/prismatics, they will always be in the game. I'm not saying they should give out free removers because it is beneficial for the game, I'm just saying there are indeed pros and cons as mort said. My comment was only meant to give an example of why would redesigning the item lock even be considered
Build optimisation via online resources is already making the game braindead. Taking a balanced stance on this idea has made me lose more respect for Mort. I like golden remover when it randomly pops up, but being able to braindead slam 3 items on your trait bot while you look for your carry is braindead. Or even triple slamming your carry then replacing with BiS and moving the weaker items to your secondary. It is even worse for vertical comps; just move your AD items up the duelist chain 4head.
You can already do that and just sell your traitbot, this is already being done in high elo every single game, always slam items remover or not 100% of the time. golden remover does break things like tg though and Ive had games rotating 3 tgs between 5 good units depending on the roll which is kinda just stupid.
@@peterbergeon9001 you still have to replace your traitbot, which means rolling, which is gold. If you hit your 4 cost early (LVL 5,6) then it may be a free transition without loss of power. It means your highrollers get to highroll harder. I mean also your low rollers as well (i.e. can't find your carry). But that incentivises hard forcing so I am against it.
why dont they just make a portal where everyone gets a golden remover