@@mikemassaro6576 Landa is actually just 15 seconds behind Ayuso so him not sprinting makes this even more amazing it really felt more like Sepp was riding for Bahrain today then anything else. xD
Amazing, Landa sacrificed bonus time for himself when he was physically stronger to take the line. And yet Jonas and Roglic spat on Kuss today, leaving him in the dust with their middle fingers in the air. Unbelievable.
After the final day at the Vuelta, Sepp said into the radio for Primoz and Jonas to go race for the stage 17 win. Sepp is a class act. Let's get the facts before downing Primoz and Jonas for leaving Sepp.
@@letsexploreandtravelonadis6424 It is debatable what Kuss yelled into his radio. it is highly unlikely he told his two teammates to drop him. That just makes no sense at all.
@@marcusm8745first rule of cycling: don’t attack your own teammate. Defend your team, by all means, but don‘t attack when they’re not under attack from anyone else. What else would you like to know about cycling, I’ve been following it for 37 years
Wow all the work sepp had done for jonas, and he rides off without a worry, change teams sepp its time, dont forget sepp waited several times to help roglic on same climb last year, I'm sure UEA would love to have you. Good luck I am a huge Sepp Kuss fan
You all letting your emotions talk, jbv defitinky agreed on a certain distance for finishline where they could go and sepp agreed to that. Otherwise they wouldnt have go or he would have shown some remorse.
Sepp is the ultimate teammate who was a critical part of Roglic and Vingegaard winning their Grand Tours this year. It just makes me furious how they stabbed him in the back the last two stages. I blame Jumbo team manages even more than the riders for letting it happen.
@@gerttopmuller that was teamwork, man, Sepp kuss was in red, and even if it was different Sepp pulled Roglic and Vingenard to win Giro and the Tour but they decided to attack him just because he is a domestic
Exactly right. I used to have respect for JV and all the talent they had, but was a much bigger Pogacar fan anyway. Now I will hope that Sepp leaves the team, and every race JV loses.
@bryancarol3219 I don’t care what the team says, nobody that truly loves and respects cycling wants to watch a race where teammates are attacking teammates, myself included.
I’ve been following pro cycling for over 50 years. I raced at the pro level domestically for over 15. I have never seen the likes of what I saw yesterday and today. Roglic and Jonas attacking Sepp like they are is asinine! There was nothing for them to gain attacking him today - and on his birthday And after he led both of them to all their grand tour victories!?! WTF? How many times has Sepp waited for teammates when he could have won it all? Didnt that happen on a previous Angliru stage with Sepp waiting on Roglic? I hope Ineos is calling Sepps manager! Had I not watched, I would not believe it. Karma can be a bitch. I hope Jonas and Roglic both get both slapped!!
What do you mean there’s nothing to gain? They’re riders trying to win a fucking grand tour? They don’t have to let Sepp win just because he got lucky in a break away and has held on well. The acknowledgement of his service is that they’re not making him work for them despite clearly being stronger riders
Totally. I raced in he Pro/am class for over 30 years and agree. This is maddening. Obviously the majority of comments are from people who have never raced a bike in entire lives.
Really? 50 years and you don’t remember Hinault riding for himself after promising to support LeMond in 1986. I would love to see JV ride for Sepp, but at this point he has to take care of himself.
Agreed, also raced pretty seriously at one point, and the only other time I saw this was with Hinault and Lemond. Total horseshit moves, infamously so. wouldn't be surprised if Kuss suddenly comes down with polonium poisoning.
@@riquelmeoneliterally the team leader who is leading the race overall, the one in the red leaders jersey, how much more information do you require, numbnuts?
Sepp is not team leader - he is leading in the race - the managers broke the unwritten rule in bike racing that you don't attack a leading teammate ( team leader or not ) -- Sepp has done well to hold the lead. Sepp has done enough to earn the win.
Roglic and Vingergard still could not get the red jersey after stage 17. Hahaha... yet Kuss is such a gentleman congratulating both "enemies" at finish line
I think so too. Sepp actually gave credit to Landa and said that Landa deserves the podium more than himself. But he had to sprint to get the bonus points.
Whether Roglic & Vingegaard change their behaviour in the last few days remains to be seen but if they do it will be hard to believe they did it out of anything other reason than the negative backlash their actions have received. I'd like to see Sepp leave JV and go join Pog at UAE and stuff them next year.
As much as I wish for Kuss to get his glory (I do hope he ends the Vuelta in red) even if Pog gets such a strong teammate as Kuss I doubt UAE will be able to stop JV from getting his third TDF. He is just too strong when it comes to the grand tours.
@@TheGamingDukes I have to disagree with you. Pogacar targets the whole season & his crash prior to the Tour took away the top level fitness he needed to be able to win it. JV focused on the Tour & it obviously paid off. It’s up to Pogacar & UAE to decide what their #1 objective is for next season. If Pogacar decides he wants to be in top form to race against JV, I think it is a toss up, especially if Pogacar races more strategically in the Tour.
@@brianmchugh3757 I definitely see your point. Regardless of what happens I think we can all agree that we'll probably be in for one hell of a TDF next year. Because for sure Pog won't let JV get his third Tour victory without having to work harder than ever before. It's gonna be damn exciting for sure!
That song with the chorus “They smile in your face, and all the wanna do is take Your place” is being rereleased by a new group The Ojumbo Vismas… back stabbed on his birthday as well!
Sepp kuss won a large chunk of his lead in a breakaway. But Jonas also made up the lost time through favourable race dynamics due to Sepp being race leader and roglic doing a good ITT.
Stage 16 and 17 was the most disgusting grand tour stage ive ever seen,Roglic and Jonas attacking Kuss and eating into his lead was very unsportsmanlike,Kuss has worked his arse off to deliver multiple grand tours for Jonas and Roglic and its now their to return the favour,TJV owe Kuss this grand tour,he is the leader right now in red,so Primoz and Vingee must not attack the Red Jersey
I don't think the team contracts say that though... The reality is that Kus probably has to leave the team...or Roglic leaves and Kus becomes the 'other' GC man at JV.
Stage 16 to be fair was fine. Jonas attacked so the other teams had to give Kuss the free wheel. Roglic was only attacking only in the very end which is fair and Kuss was pretty much safe with his place. Stage 17 is ridiculous. Attacking your own teammate and left him to rot in Angliru? Jonas would have had the red jersey if Kuss did not have Landa's wheel to follow. Absolute craziness.
It's really disappointed that Step Kuss is already betrayed by both of them. He gave everything to won the grandtour for Rogliç and Vingegaard but now they are fighting for themselves😢.
Jonas can do whatever he wants and knows the team will back him because he's the current TdF winning rider. The team keeps saying all they care about is winning the race but they ARE winning the race with Kuss in the lead and he's had no serious challengers other than his own teammates. He's a loyal hardworking teammate and if the tables were turned and he attacked Primoz or Jonas in the same manner they would screams of mutiny all around. Just seems low class to hunt down and take away your teammates chance of winning when he has backed you selflessly all these years. I could understand if other riders were in the mix and they needed team tactics to control the win or even the podium sweep but that simply isn't the case. Low class and Jonas and Primoz are entering into the territory of Max Verstappen class of teammate here.
Zero knowledge is shown here. There is no point to ride massively for kuss if someone in thr Team or himself doubt his legs for the last couple of stages. Why use of Jonas or roglic if there is a Chance kuss gets dropt on one of thr final stages? JV is going save at this Point beeing so close to History
Nahhh man. You are talking with full emotion.. everyone want to see either sepp win or jonas/roglic lose… just accept that a super domestic is way too good for this race. Last year vuelta was full of amateurs compared to this one. And dont come back with ayuso or lando because they didnt had a change from the beginning
It's competition at the end of the day. Kuss also said he wants to win the tour on his own merit. Holding back Jonas and Primoz is a bad team strategy anyway. You don't want other teams to gain time on you. Kuss can simply follow Jonas and Primoz and he'll win the tour. That's all he has to do.
Kuss should go to another team and become GC rider. Imagine people working to help him he could challenge Vingegaard, Roglic, Pogi in grand tours maybe not beat them but defo top 5 in GC
Sepp Kuss helped PR and JV to win the Giro and the Tour, what a nice and humble domestique. Now in the Vuelta, JV attacked Kuss several times and doesn't help him. Hope that Kuss will leave the team and go to UAE to help Pogi.
I'm pretty furious at how TJV is treating Kuss, after all Kuss has done for that team's success. They keep on saying that it doesn't matter who wins as long as it's someone from TJV. If that's true, then why isn't Kuss the protected rider? They attacked their own guy on GC! I've never seen a team do this before except when Contador did it to Lance, and he was pilloried for it. TJV could have ridden the final 3ks up the last climb and crossed the line together taking 1-2-3 on the stage. Nobody is even close on the stage or on GC. Primo could still have won the stage. But instead Primo and Jonas attacked Kuss and put him into the red. A shameful display of greed and lack of sportsmanship and teamwork. Primo has won this race three times, and Jonas has won the last two TdFs. But apparently, there's not enough glory to be shared with a loyal teammate who's been in a big way responsible for EVERY grand tour win on that team. TJV should be ashamed of themselves. They still have time to redeem themselves though. DO THE RIGHT THING TJV!!! PS - Hey Jumbo and Visma....is this how you want your riders representing your brand?? You can either have one of your riders win and have the whole world cheer for it. Or you can have one of your riders win and have the world forever use it as an example of arrogance and greed.
I feeel like this is all part of Jumbo's masterplan - which is to see Sepp winning La Vuelta. Their whole "samen winnen" motto is out the window if Sepp loses to his teammates, particularly when there's no danger of other teams leapfrogging all of them. So on Stage 18 - which is really the last stage with potential significant time gains - Sepp will be protected at all costs by Jonas and Primoz, and they will ensure to finish behind him at the final climb. And after that it's just Stage 20 - which has Remco written all over it. The GC group will likely finish in a small bunch with no time gains. And boom - Sepp wins La Vuelta.
GC riders have big egos, they don't like being superseded by a mere domestique. Ving and Rog didn't protect Kuss yesterday or today and they won't tomorrow.
@@blackdog2994completely agree. Everything Sepp has right now is because he fought for it. The reality is that neither JV nor PR have helped Sepp at all. They talk like they want him to win but their actions indicate otherwise.
Funny how the Jumbo social media guy knew what was said on the radio within like 30 seconds, he must have been listening in the team car when he was sitting at his desk?? He seemed confident when he commented, "Kuss told the guys to go". Wonder if maybe that's a little-bit of stretched truth.
I wish TJV would play favorably to Kuss, like telling Roglic and Vingegaard to not attack him. But ultimately I think the team will decide who will be in the red jersey. Whether that means TJV is just letting them race against each other feathered or racing favorable to one of the three riders. Kuss will most likely be in the top three, but who knows how long he'll be in the red. I hope till the end of last stage.
The team directors obviously told Roglic to stop attacking which just goes to show the type of person Roglic is. He clearly had no respect for Kuss wearing the red jersey and did not congratulate him at the end until Kuss went to him. I have no interest in seeing Roglic win again and i hope he doesn't
On a side note, every one of the names on the Vencedores del Angliru headstone at the top of the climb contain names of all those who doped to get there...
Here’s the proper analysis. Jonas is happy for Kuss to win the race but there’s no way he’s letting Roglic take it. If that means taking the title ahead of Kuss, that’s what Jonas will do.
“That day at the Giro where Joao Almeida and Geraint Thomas went up the road and Roglic was not on a good day, Kuss stayed with his team leader and rode all the way to the finish. “I’m not saying Kuss could have won that stage, but it didn’t even come into his brain. [He thought] ‘I’m working for my team leader Primoz Roglic on this day - even though he’s not as strong as I am'.
unreal actions from TJV one of cyclings' premier domestiques holding the GC and you attack him on his birthday. hope he finds at team that will appreciate him
@@lmao7439 Makes more sense if he has GC aspirations. Truth is that if he had this chance on UAE, his teammates wouldn't be trying, or able, to take it away from him. Only cost would be having to help Pogacar at the tour, although with Yates there as well, there would be an opportunity to possibly take stages.
Hahaha! Yes, look at UAE at the Vuelta. So much team work! Like Pogacar would ever gift ANYTHING away 🤣🤣😂😂 He is even their leader at classics, one day races, stage races and Grand Tours. You're a clueless bot.
Kuss needs to find a new team. Landa was so professional by not contesting the bonus points. The same cannot be said by Kuss' teammates Roglic and Vinegaard who instead of supporting him are out seeking more glory for themselves. They've lost my respect.
At the end of the day it's competition. Kuss can simply follow Jonas and Primoz and he'll win the Tour. His legs and lungs failed to do that. Holding back Jonas and Primoz is a bad team strategy. You don't want other teams to gain time on you.
@@basstheangelo Yes. For sure. There is a rumour that Jumbo Visma was concerned that Ayuso and Enric Mas would drop them and solo into a 4 minutes lead tomorrow. They think this is a good possibility while all the other teams would sit up, let them do it, while all vingegaard, Roglic and Kuss cracked at the same time. All of these things have to be a legitimate concern at the same time for your argument to be valid
Jonas is trying to do the impossible. Win TDF and Vuelta in the same year. It would be an incredible feat if he managed to do that. Sports is cruel since the beginning of mankind. The strongest, smartest, most skillful, etc. always win. That's how competition works.
If Vingegaard wanted to win La vuelta he would by now, he is clearly the best climber by far in this race. It is clear TJV want Kuss to win. Roglic and Vingegaard are attacking so that enough gap is built to the 4th place rider. Even if Kuss is dropped in final mountain stage, they both wont attack him now since they have 3 min gap to 4th place now.
Fascinating brutal stage today! Those who are against TJV's antics are thinking way too much with their hearts though. Kuss won all his time in a breakaway, it's not because he is the strongest rider. It's tactically ridiculous for people to suggest that the Tour de France and Giro D'italia winners should ride for a guy who is clearly not as strong as them (unless they aren't competitive themselves) ... let alone ride in service for sixteen stages! I think TJV are giving Kuss a very fair shot at the Vuelta by not having him be on domestique duties like he came into the race anticipating and those who suggest Vingegaard and Roglic should simply gift it as a token gesture of gratitude are surely disrespecting the racing credibility of the Vuelta as one of the three GTs? If I were Kuss then I'd want to win the Vuelta on merit by digging in like he did today with the three riders coming in 1,2,3 and that'll be the best thank you by TJV he could ask for.
Yes, why not? If it doesn't matter who from TJV will win, than why not to work for Kuss, yes as gratitude. Nothing wrong about it. It's just will rase prestige and image of the team. And now, it's giving nothing but impression of ununited team with everyone self ambitions.
Kuss was potentially the strongest on Tourmalet but let Jonas win on team orders. There's a complete lack of respect from Jonas to Kuss and it's showing visibly on camera. Why should Kuss ever work for Jonas again when he can attack if he wants to from now on..
@@christophCymru The only way for TJV to have lost this tour is for them to have backed Kuss too early, used Vingegaard or Roglic to defend Kuss instead of having them take time on other GC contenders, only for Kuss to have cracked or had a mechanical on a stage like today. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense defensively for TJV to utilise all three offensively, Kuss will know this and it's probably why he is so cool with it and let Vingegaard go on Tourmalet to win. Personally I want Kuss to win, I actually think he may still win because a) the hardest stages are now over and all three have a sizeable advantage to make it a 1,2,3 and b) Vingegaard is incredibly sporting (need only see last years TdF vs Pogacar) but as a DS I know it'd leave Roglic and Vingegaard incredibly frustrated if they were both held back on stages with better legs because Kuss got in a breakaway on stage 6 and then a bad oyster or racing incident costs the whole team the Vuelta.
As we don't know what Kuss said on the radio loosing the wheel of Vingegaard, it's just speculation, and I think Sep want the fight for it, not to be given a victory. And remember how Jonas respectfully waited for his competitor Pogacar last year in the TDF, when Pogacar fell on a descent. Jonas surely wants it to be a fair fight, and Kuss might not be to happy to win, if it can be said that if his team mates had given all they had, he would not have won. Definitely, there is something else going on, than what others are so sure about.
Personally, were I already a multiple grand tour winner....I'd like it if I could help my team mate get at least one in their careers. Posterity will REMEMBER that.....more than a number. I wonder whether PR & JV might not have realised that by this time tomorrow?
because they would be grilled even more on channels like here... No matter what they do, it is considered wrong by the internet police - you can't win...
@@JespersenPhoto They wouldnt be getting grilled in the first place if they didnt ride like ungrateful pricks. Ungrateful for all the work Sepp has done for them.
They know they are getting trolled on the PR side of the brand. Take the trophy, lose some fan base. It'll be over tomorrow. Sepp will give them and the DS cover, though. Because.... CLASS!
That's not competition. Kuss has to prove he has the strongest lungs and legs for 3 weeks. Babying a professional cyclist is bad for spirit of competition and sport. This isn't a movie. This is real life professional cycling competition.
@@basstheangelo that’s major BS. The whole point of team cycling is that the team is stronger than any individual rider. Plenty of examples of GC grand tour winners who never won a stage, they win by being supported by their team and by team members controlling the race and sacrificing their own finish time like SK has done for these two losers. I wonder how many people today decided they would never buy a product from a company sponsoring JV or PR? I can think of a few. This kind of behavior has a way of coming back around, and is already hurting Jumbo as a team.
Rog and Jonas want to snatch that Red from Kuss by leaving him. I think the two are just holding back from doing it because they know they will get backlashed from fans if they decide do that. Well, if Rog and Jonas will do take the red (either of them), that's not being a team player. TVJ has done very well this year, other team members should be allowed to get the glory sometime. But I like the idea of Kuss leaving Jumbo and teaming up with Pog. :D
i think Jumbo's plan is taking turns in attacking while the other two hangs on to those responding to attacks. Yesterday was JV. Today was Roglic's turn (i honestly think JV could have attacked him and drop him but he did not). Hopefully Kuss' turn is tomorrow but he looks spent so we will see
To everyone saying let the best man win - Kuss IS THE BEST MAN. He’s on his third grand tour and had he not been so tired helping Jonas and Roglic, they perhaps couldn’t have distanced him. They should’ve taken him with them cuz the other teams weren’t in contention and it was a chance to help him. It’s no gift - if it is, everything that Kuss has done for them was a gift too.
Landa probably would have won the stage. And no, even a fresh Kuss won't keep with Jonas. He's ridiculously stronger. Remember, they're barely separated and Jonas was ill in the first week to the point of shitting during the stage
After all the work that Kuss has put for Roglic and Vingegaard, it's very distasteful what they are doing. Not that it matters to them or the team, but I am glad I did not buy the TJV's kit as I was intending to. I'll wait and see where Kuss goes.
Jonas could have attacked and won this stage, he was holding back letting Roglic win.. should either have attacked early on the steep or stayed with Sepp… think Roglics’s second attack was surprising for Sepp and Jonas. Anyways Jonas could have closed the GC today but didn’t… remember that.
Just wondering what happens if one of the JV leaders gets a puncture? Will they give a wheel to their team mate? or just keep riding for themselves and let support car or another team mate well back to catch up? I hope racing as individuals don't bite them in the butt.
If yeah…. History repeats itself, but it’s a Dutch team this time! Remember when ODM just suddenly pulled the whole team out the Tour? Yeah they were all caught out… something in this sport will never change
Jumbo looks so strong. Its unreal to watch them race. I wish people would stop making them out to fight each other. There is a lot of reapect between the three riders.
Exactly... no overall threat. So why not have the strongest rider (who ever that might be) win the race. They are anyway going to end 1,2,3, why not let them race? How is it any more ethical "giving" Sepp the win, then having them go at it and give it their best shot?@@lazlo2511
The body language of Jonas towards Sepp at the end looks to me like they are not a 'team' at all. Sepp has smashed himself for Jonas ans Primos and it looked very much like they 'owe him nothing' bad vibes indeed
It would be like a fairy tale if Kuss would win surrounded by 2 GT winners on the podium and I would actually also like to see that come true. But to suggest that Jonas and Roglic being captains and 2nd and 3rd should suddenly act as domeistiques to Kuss who got the lead not by racing the GT contenders but in a break away that got lucky is just stupid. If Jonas and/or Roglic were far behind it is a different scenario. Having the red jersey Kuss dont have to be a domestique and is treated like a co-captain, which is fair. If he is strong enough he will keep the jersey and win. Besides, I am sure that JumboVisma has an agreed gameplan. I am also confident that Jonas could have taken the lead today if he wanted, but he did not push but just stayed on the wheel of Roglic and stated in an interview that he hopes Kuss can keep the 8 second lead and Win. Yesterday he won for Nathan and was permitted to attack as he had "the legs". It might as well have been Kuss or Roglic that attacked but they did not. So it is up to Kuss to stay at the front and keep up with the GT contenders.
Agree, it's just a hollow victory if it is common knowledge that it was gifted you, there is no sense of achievement or pride if you don't have at least appear to fight for it. I had to turn the NBC commentary off - Bob Dole and Vande Lance were an embarrassment.
Must be a game plan… today’s results sure point us in that direction, so tomorrow is D-day for Sepp, he must now attempt an attack one last time or face losing the game…
All those words of thanks to their (Roglic & Vingegaard) teammates after victories ring very hollow now. Anyone who has raced a bike knows how much it can hurt and there must be something which drives you on (e.g. personal loyalty) and it isn’t just a question of money. Words are cheap and actions speak louder than words. I hope Sepp goes on to win then leaves Jumbo at the first opportunity.
I would like to see Vingegaard become one of the few riders who have won two grand tour titles in the same year. After all this is a competition so I see no reason why JV shouldn't win GC.
He still has many years to get that achievement. But the chance to piss off his superdomestique and potential lead him to change teams is unique. Obviously I don't know about internal communications and how Kuss would handle this but if it was me, my TJV contract would end asap and off to UAE or wherever Remco is I'm next.
Complete BS! Everyone in the team is expected to support JV but, when someone else gets the lead they get attacked and not supported. Now I understand why WVA was passed in the TDF.
2022 TDF was fair WVA was green jersey amazing to watch.. 2023 TDF Jumbo Visma put all efforts into Jonas, making WVA look selfish on Netflix to control his desire to win...WVA should have won at least one stage before he abandoned for his son's birth.
Sepp no longer needs to work for these 2 non teammates. Really? He has busted his legs for years for these 2 and this is what they give back. No longer a Jumbo fan. Sepp fan for sure though.
I’m hoping TJV is just messing with the rest of the peloton by keeping everyone guessing. Maybe privately they just wanted to get the other two closer to Kuss but in reality they will close for Kuss in the end…I hope so anyway
It's over now for Kuss. What a guy! More proud of his talent, fight, and class than ever. I predict Jonas attacks tomorrow on the final climb and puts 30-40 seconds into him plus bonus. Roglic 2nd. Sepp finishes 4th or 5th with no help in the last 5 km. Fix is in. DS is taking care of their GC investment, Jonas. Those who follow closely, know how much he has contributed to what will be 7 grand tour victories. Most of all, Sepp knows. His positivity and gratitude in spite of his sacrifices is inspiring.
Teammates attacking teammates who are already in the lead. Complete insanity. Kuss will be on a different team next year. Watch. Primoz and Jonas are losing their strongest ally.
That's what he's supposed to do. He Jumbos top lieutenant. He's not there to win grand tours. Roglic and Jonas are paid to win grand tours, there success as bike riders is on how they did in grand tours. Why people think they are going to let Kuss win because he's American and it's a great story is hilarious. Even Sepp has said he doesn't want to win that way
@@abuckeye26 not because he’s American moron 🤦♂️ but because he’s their teammate and they should be supporting who’s already in the lead. The only thing hilarious is Jumbo obvious team dysfunction. Kuss confirmed after the race he asked them to hold up.
Interesting, on the climbs its every man for themselves, pointless staying together unless it flattens off Stage 18 is a mountain finish so I predict TJV staying together until then If another team wants to get big time they need to go at 80-90km
@@Mike0 you must never watch racing. It has never been “every man for himself”. Cycling is a team sport, unless an American is in the lead apparently.. Suddenly it’s “every man for himself” hahahahah convenient rule change for Europeans.
How come that Jumbo-Visma's finest won't help the race leader but rather fight him? He who in the past helped each one of his team mates to win? He who has shown so much sportsmanship in the past really could do with the support of his "friends". Or am I being naive?
Yes, you're being naive. The idea to support the "leader" is to race for the one who has the best chance of winning the race, ie the strongest rider of the team.
@@Shadowboostthe race is over now they have a big gap in gc. They dont need to attack him anymore in the next stages. Kuss proved already that he is a strong rider keeping red while riding in his 3rd grand tour of the yr. If jv and pr attacks him in the last 4 stages knowing they already have an insurmountable lead will show their selfishness not protecting their leader.
I'm totally rooting for Kuss, but people are being a little harsh on JV/PR. There are several very good reasons they might want to get time on JV/PR - stage wins, securing 2nd/3rd, having a backup incase Kuss blows up (he is not normally a GC rider after all). Plus they are only dropping Kuss on steep ascents where there isn't much pulling to be done. That all said, it's also possible they simply have a "let the best man win" approach to this one since top 3 is in the bag - if so, that is a real shame but I kind of get it.
Pulling on the steep climb is important. It has a psychological benefits. The minimal drafting can also help the cyclists to endure longer and save energy. Any grand tour riders would tell you that haing a teammate is important especially when you crack. Runners who run in group run faster even if you eliminate the effect of drafting. He could have had one of them to sprint for the stage and have another guy drafting Sepp up. Let's just be honest here. No one really thought that Landa would be able to not only catch up but also out sprint them if they rode together
Its turning into a bit of a PR head ache now . I mean they had loads of wiggle room today to play with .The fallout from it tonight will be telling tomorrow to observe if any deals have been struck.
Landa / Bahrain was awesome... Really took it to JV... And most of all he didn't try to hard against Sepp so he could come third and get bonus seconds.
Well how deep will Mr Kuss go next time his teammates need him after attacking the race leader who made it possible for you to get glory. Yes JV and Roglics, Gentlemen I can assure you that you lost a lot of American fans today.
Listen to yourselves !!. Has anyone EVER given a Tour victory away to anybody else ?. This is not a kindergarten, where everyone gets to win. This is a grand tour. Show some respect to the race, and race for the victory. May the best rider win in Madrid
It's by far more complex since Kuss was so much times the key for the success of the others. At least it would be a great sign of a great team spirit, that Jumbo has and there's no real danger to lose the red to another team. I could understand it if he really has a multiple minutes gap to Rogliz or Jonas, but that's at least currently not the case.
So much for a birthday gift from his teammates. He got a better gift from Landa! Whatever TJV. Happy Birthday,Sepp! You're still the man!!
Landa knew Sepp need the 4 second bonus more than it would help him at 3+ minutes back.
@@mikemassaro6576 Landa is actually just 15 seconds behind Ayuso so him not sprinting makes this even more amazing it really felt more like Sepp was riding for Bahrain today then anything else. xD
Exactly 💯
Maybe time for him to switch team, Jumbo is loaded anyway! Go to a team that will support your efforts 100% regardless if you’re a domestiqué or not!
@@ongeeargos3621Sepp is in the spotlight because he is part big a team. If he leaves TJV he is done…Jonas, Roglic, Tadej are on another level.
Amazing, Landa sacrificed bonus time for himself when he was physically stronger to take the line. And yet Jonas and Roglic spat on Kuss today, leaving him in the dust with their middle fingers in the air. Unbelievable.
That's a little unfair. The team needs to put as much time between themselves and the rest of the field as possible. Still lots of climbing to come.
@@marcusm8745cope
After the final day at the Vuelta, Sepp said into the radio for Primoz and Jonas to go race for the stage 17 win. Sepp is a class act. Let's get the facts before downing Primoz and Jonas for leaving Sepp.
@@letsexploreandtravelonadis6424 It is debatable what Kuss yelled into his radio. it is highly unlikely he told his two teammates to drop him. That just makes no sense at all.
Wow! Gave me shivers to watch Sepp ride so well and hang on to the jersey! Happy Birthday!
The rest of the Peleton should work together to deliver a victory for Kuss. And Sepp's agent better be on the phone "seeing what's out there."
kuss is doing a fantastic job overall with no help from his team…
Team can't help you when riding up steep gradients like that.
The team helped a lot. Just the captains don't work for each other. There are 5 more riders in JV
@@marcusm8745 you don’t attack the leader when he is your team mate..
@@marcusm8745first rule of cycling: don’t attack your own teammate. Defend your team, by all means, but don‘t attack when they’re not under attack from anyone else. What else would you like to know about cycling, I’ve been following it for 37 years
@@Yaketyyak21 This.
Wow all the work sepp had done for jonas, and he rides off without a worry, change teams sepp its time, dont forget sepp waited several times to help roglic on same climb last year, I'm sure UEA would love to have you. Good luck I am a huge Sepp Kuss fan
That looked like Kuss was in a different team than JV and PR.
It's time to find a new team, Sepp.
He is on a different team, essentially. Jumbo are NOT riding for him. They are obviously riding for Vingegaard.
@@dclark142002 Think they are just letting the strongest rider win.......
You all letting your emotions talk, jbv defitinky agreed on a certain distance for finishline where they could go and sepp agreed to that. Otherwise they wouldnt have go or he would have shown some remorse.
@@klaushoff461exaclty, they agreed to riding to a kilometer point and from there on the strongest may win
Sepp is the ultimate teammate who was a critical part of Roglic and Vingegaard winning their Grand Tours this year. It just makes me furious how they stabbed him in the back the last two stages. I blame Jumbo team manages even more than the riders for letting it happen.
Letting what happen?
@@gerttopmuller that was teamwork, man, Sepp kuss was in red, and even if it was different Sepp pulled Roglic and Vingenard to win Giro and the Tour but they decided to attack him just because he is a domestic
JV is making cheering for Pogacar an easy choice. With friends like Roglic and Jonas, who needs enemies! I bet WVA is watching this closely as well.
Exactly right. I used to have respect for JV and all the talent they had, but was a much bigger Pogacar fan anyway. Now I will hope that Sepp leaves the team, and every race JV loses.
Sepp can join Ineos with Remco
Hahaha you guys were never fan of JV. Go cry in a corner clowns!
@bryancarol3219 I don’t care what the team says, nobody that truly loves and respects cycling wants to watch a race where teammates are attacking teammates, myself included.
@@bitang23-q5b Not a bad idea, Remco would never do what these two are doing to Sepp.
This was the second queen stage on this year's Vuelta, according to @GCN Racing!
I’ve been following pro cycling for over 50 years. I raced at the pro level domestically for over 15. I have never seen the likes of what I saw yesterday and today. Roglic and Jonas attacking Sepp like they are is asinine! There was nothing for them to gain attacking him today - and on his birthday And after he led both of them to all their grand tour victories!?! WTF? How many times has Sepp waited for teammates when he could have won it all? Didnt that happen on a previous Angliru stage with Sepp waiting on Roglic?
I hope Ineos is calling Sepps manager!
Had I not watched, I would not believe it. Karma can be a bitch. I hope Jonas and Roglic both get both slapped!!
What do you mean there’s nothing to gain? They’re riders trying to win a fucking grand tour? They don’t have to let Sepp win just because he got lucky in a break away and has held on well. The acknowledgement of his service is that they’re not making him work for them despite clearly being stronger riders
Totally. I raced in he Pro/am class for over 30 years and agree. This is maddening. Obviously the majority of comments are from people who have never raced a bike in entire lives.
agreed
Really? 50 years and you don’t remember Hinault riding for himself after promising to support LeMond in 1986. I would love to see JV ride for Sepp, but at this point he has to take care of himself.
Agreed, also raced pretty seriously at one point, and the only other time I saw this was with Hinault and Lemond. Total horseshit moves, infamously so. wouldn't be surprised if Kuss suddenly comes down with polonium poisoning.
Never saw a team leader get destroyed by his own team.
which team leader got destroyed?
I saw two leaders crossing the line as first and second. Didn’t check further behind.
Who are you referring to?
@@riquelmeoneliterally the team leader who is leading the race overall, the one in the red leaders jersey, how much more information do you require, numbnuts?
@@riquelmeonemaybe the one leading the race
@@Jponabike he’s not a team leader though
Sepp is not team leader - he is leading in the race -
the managers broke the unwritten rule in bike racing that you don't attack a leading teammate
( team leader or not ) --
Sepp has done well to hold the lead.
Sepp has done enough to earn the win.
Roglic and Vingergard still could not get the red jersey after stage 17. Hahaha... yet Kuss is such a gentleman congratulating both "enemies" at finish line
It really looked like Landa eased up to let Kuss take the bonus seconds
Landa is an honorary American for that
I think so too. Sepp actually gave credit to Landa and said that Landa deserves the podium more than himself. But he had to sprint to get the bonus points.
He did I believe, it's his birthday gift to Sepp, what a gentleman ML he is.
Wow so cool of Landa, he probably wanted to help him, recognizing how Jumbo, Jonas and Primoz are all doing him dirty
Could all be how TJV has their pay structure, extra for stage wins, grand tour podium etc. still holding out for Kuss
Whether Roglic & Vingegaard change their behaviour in the last few days remains to be seen but if they do it will be hard to believe they did it out of anything other reason than the negative backlash their actions have received. I'd like to see Sepp leave JV and go join Pog at UAE and stuff them next year.
As much as I wish for Kuss to get his glory (I do hope he ends the Vuelta in red) even if Pog gets such a strong teammate as Kuss I doubt UAE will be able to stop JV from getting his third TDF. He is just too strong when it comes to the grand tours.
@@TheGamingDukes I fear you may be right but if it could happen It would be nice. Pog and Sepp.... two guys that are very likeable.
Agreed.. Yates, Majka and Kuss would make a great team for Pog
@@TheGamingDukes I have to disagree with you. Pogacar targets the whole season & his crash prior to the Tour took away the top level fitness he needed to be able to win it. JV focused on the Tour & it obviously paid off. It’s up to Pogacar & UAE to decide what their #1 objective is for next season. If Pogacar decides he wants to be in top form to race against JV, I think it is a toss up, especially if Pogacar races more strategically in the Tour.
@@brianmchugh3757 I definitely see your point. Regardless of what happens I think we can all agree that we'll probably be in for one hell of a TDF next year. Because for sure Pog won't let JV get his third Tour victory without having to work harder than ever before. It's gonna be damn exciting for sure!
Kuss is still in Vuelta lead even when he did not have a domestique 🙄 working for him over last 3 stages itself tells how good of a GC man he is 😊
Much cooler than normal intro!
I thought the same - nice touch! buy a beverage for whoever put together that segment!
the biggest back stabb of all time by Jumbo and the biggest blunder of all time by Bahrain
That song with the chorus “They smile in your face, and all the wanna do is take Your place” is being rereleased by a new group The Ojumbo Vismas… back stabbed on his birthday as well!
100%
Lol the place belongs to Jonas, he is the strongest, Sepp just got lucky to find himself in red.
LET SEPP COOK 🇺🇸
I'm not liking your attitude, sir. This comment section is a pre-emptive commiseration thread.
@@yesitis1395let sep COOK
He's already cooked tbh
He looked cooked today 😉
There will definitely be more cooking in the days to come😂
dropped by your team mates .... great guys
Sepp kuss won a large chunk of his lead in a breakaway. But Jonas also made up the lost time through favourable race dynamics due to Sepp being race leader and roglic doing a good ITT.
It doesn't matter how Sepp got the jersey - he earned it! Time for Sepp to leave JV.
Team orders ! / as soon as Roglic&vinnygoogoo tk off Kuss answers radio and starts SOFT PEDALING!!!
Yeah thts 1 way to look at it
He would've probably Destroyed them BOTH if he was FREE TO RIDE HIS RACE & NOT FOLLOW TEAM ORDERS
Hmmm i thought that's how most riders GAIN TIME / BY BREAKING AWAY OR BEING IN A BREAKAWAY/ STOP HATING
Stage 16 and 17 was the most disgusting grand tour stage ive ever seen,Roglic and Jonas attacking Kuss and eating into his lead was very unsportsmanlike,Kuss has worked his arse off to deliver multiple grand tours for Jonas and Roglic and its now their to return the favour,TJV owe Kuss this grand tour,he is the leader right now in red,so Primoz and Vingee must not attack the Red Jersey
I don't think the team contracts say that though...
The reality is that Kus probably has to leave the team...or Roglic leaves and Kus becomes the 'other' GC man at JV.
did you hear team radio?
Have a cry
Stage 16 to be fair was fine. Jonas attacked so the other teams had to give Kuss the free wheel. Roglic was only attacking only in the very end which is fair and Kuss was pretty much safe with his place. Stage 17 is ridiculous. Attacking your own teammate and left him to rot in Angliru? Jonas would have had the red jersey if Kuss did not have Landa's wheel to follow. Absolute craziness.
@@UselessRandomJudas Vingego 🐍🐍🐍
It's really disappointed that Step Kuss is already betrayed by both of them. He gave everything to won the grandtour for Rogliç and Vingegaard but now they are fighting for themselves😢.
Jonas can do whatever he wants and knows the team will back him because he's the current TdF winning rider. The team keeps saying all they care about is winning the race but they ARE winning the race with Kuss in the lead and he's had no serious challengers other than his own teammates. He's a loyal hardworking teammate and if the tables were turned and he attacked Primoz or Jonas in the same manner they would screams of mutiny all around. Just seems low class to hunt down and take away your teammates chance of winning when he has backed you selflessly all these years. I could understand if other riders were in the mix and they needed team tactics to control the win or even the podium sweep but that simply isn't the case. Low class and Jonas and Primoz are entering into the territory of Max Verstappen class of teammate here.
They want to win every stage they can. That's the secondary goal to winning the overall
Zero knowledge is shown here. There is no point to ride massively for kuss if someone in thr Team or himself doubt his legs for the last couple of stages. Why use of Jonas or roglic if there is a Chance kuss gets dropt on one of thr final stages? JV is going save at this Point beeing so close to History
Nahhh man. You are talking with full emotion.. everyone want to see either sepp win or jonas/roglic lose… just accept that a super domestic is way too good for this race. Last year vuelta was full of amateurs compared to this one. And dont come back with ayuso or lando because they didnt had a change from the beginning
It's competition at the end of the day. Kuss also said he wants to win the tour on his own merit. Holding back Jonas and Primoz is a bad team strategy anyway. You don't want other teams to gain time on you. Kuss can simply follow Jonas and Primoz and he'll win the tour. That's all he has to do.
*Judas 🐍
Kuss should go to another team and become GC rider. Imagine people working to help him he could challenge Vingegaard, Roglic, Pogi in grand tours maybe not beat them but defo top 5 in GC
Sepp Kuss helped PR and JV to win the Giro and the Tour, what a nice and humble domestique. Now in the Vuelta, JV attacked Kuss several times and doesn't help him. Hope that Kuss will leave the team and go to UAE to help Pogi.
I'm pretty furious at how TJV is treating Kuss, after all Kuss has done for that team's success. They keep on saying that it doesn't matter who wins as long as it's someone from TJV. If that's true, then why isn't Kuss the protected rider? They attacked their own guy on GC! I've never seen a team do this before except when Contador did it to Lance, and he was pilloried for it. TJV could have ridden the final 3ks up the last climb and crossed the line together taking 1-2-3 on the stage. Nobody is even close on the stage or on GC. Primo could still have won the stage. But instead Primo and Jonas attacked Kuss and put him into the red. A shameful display of greed and lack of sportsmanship and teamwork. Primo has won this race three times, and Jonas has won the last two TdFs. But apparently, there's not enough glory to be shared with a loyal teammate who's been in a big way responsible for EVERY grand tour win on that team. TJV should be ashamed of themselves. They still have time to redeem themselves though. DO THE RIGHT THING TJV!!! PS - Hey Jumbo and Visma....is this how you want your riders representing your brand?? You can either have one of your riders win and have the whole world cheer for it. Or you can have one of your riders win and have the world forever use it as an example of arrogance and greed.
I feeel like this is all part of Jumbo's masterplan - which is to see Sepp winning La Vuelta. Their whole "samen winnen" motto is out the window if Sepp loses to his teammates, particularly when there's no danger of other teams leapfrogging all of them. So on Stage 18 - which is really the last stage with potential significant time gains - Sepp will be protected at all costs by Jonas and Primoz, and they will ensure to finish behind him at the final climb. And after that it's just Stage 20 - which has Remco written all over it. The GC group will likely finish in a small bunch with no time gains. And boom - Sepp wins La Vuelta.
Sounds like a great script
Hope you're right!❤
GC riders have big egos, they don't like being superseded by a mere domestique.
Ving and Rog didn't protect Kuss yesterday or today and they won't tomorrow.
@@blackdog2994completely agree. Everything Sepp has right now is because he fought for it. The reality is that neither JV nor PR have helped Sepp at all. They talk like they want him to win but their actions indicate otherwise.
I hope you're right! Would be really disappointing to see either of the other two win unless Sepp cracks
It's like Game of Thrones in JV
Funny how the Jumbo social media guy knew what was said on the radio within like 30 seconds, he must have been listening in the team car when he was sitting at his desk?? He seemed confident when he commented, "Kuss told the guys to go". Wonder if maybe that's a little-bit of stretched truth.
What a strange set of circumstances now. Looks like Sepp still has a chance
I wish TJV would play favorably to Kuss, like telling Roglic and Vingegaard to not attack him. But ultimately I think the team will decide who will be in the red jersey. Whether that means TJV is just letting them race against each other feathered or racing favorable to one of the three riders. Kuss will most likely be in the top three, but who knows how long he'll be in the red. I hope till the end of last stage.
Are you actually joking?
His teammates will attack him again on the next two mt top finishes as well.
Looks like my post aged like wine.
The team directors obviously told Roglic to stop attacking which just goes to show the type of person Roglic is.
He clearly had no respect for Kuss wearing the red jersey and did not congratulate him at the end until Kuss went to him.
I have no interest in seeing Roglic win again and i hope he doesn't
What a race !!!! really exiting to see how things unfold
why put a speed bump after a corner thats probably wet, 30 m before a finish. when all riders at nearly flat out speed...,,just thoughtless
I think that's technically against UCI regulations right? The organizing this year has been poor for the Vuelta
Happy Birthday from the USA, Sepp Kuss.
Let’s go Sep!!!
That voice you hear in the background is Sepp's agent calling every other top-tier team discussing a deal for next year.
Let the bidding wars begin... I for one can't wait to see Sepp riding for Tadej !
You’re in for a long wait !
Absolutely disgusting behavior from Vingegaard and Roglic. I hope Sepp leaves the team after all this BS
That's why you ain't a pro
It could well be the undoing of JV w such disloyalty
@@y.m.6988doesn’t take a pro to know that you shouldn’t attack your teammates. Is this your first bike race that you’re following?
this is Roglic vs. Vingegard on who will win 2 grand tours at the same year
On a side note, every one of the names on the Vencedores del Angliru headstone at the top of the climb contain names of all those who doped to get there...
happy birthday and victory in the Vuelta
Here’s the proper analysis. Jonas is happy for Kuss to win the race but there’s no way he’s letting Roglic take it. If that means taking the title ahead of Kuss, that’s what Jonas will do.
“That day at the Giro where Joao Almeida and Geraint Thomas went up the road and Roglic was not on a good day, Kuss stayed with his team leader and rode all the way to the finish.
“I’m not saying Kuss could have won that stage, but it didn’t even come into his brain. [He thought] ‘I’m working for my team leader Primoz Roglic on this day - even though he’s not as strong as I am'.
That intro 😍
Сепп ты лучший ! С Днём Рождения!
unreal actions from TJV
one of cyclings' premier domestiques holding the GC and you attack him on his birthday. hope he finds at team that will appreciate him
Anyone think this trio of pals will be in the same team next season? Even just two of them?
Kuss to UAE next year. Make that money Kuss and Tadej can have another great super domestique!
Exactly. Win or lose, I would be losing quite a bit of sleep if I were Sepp.
Leave a team to be a semi leader to be a domestique . Nice idea .
@@lmao7439 Makes more sense if he has GC aspirations. Truth is that if he had this chance on UAE, his teammates wouldn't be trying, or able, to take it away from him. Only cost would be having to help Pogacar at the tour, although with Yates there as well, there would be an opportunity to possibly take stages.
i hope for that move with Roglič to. Pogi, Rogla, Kuss vs others
Hahaha! Yes, look at UAE at the Vuelta. So much team work! Like Pogacar would ever gift ANYTHING away 🤣🤣😂😂 He is even their leader at classics, one day races, stage races and Grand Tours. You're a clueless bot.
Kuss needs to find a new team. Landa was so professional by not contesting the bonus points. The same cannot be said by Kuss' teammates Roglic and Vinegaard who instead of supporting him are out seeking more glory for themselves. They've lost my respect.
At the end of the day it's competition. Kuss can simply follow Jonas and Primoz and he'll win the Tour. His legs and lungs failed to do that. Holding back Jonas and Primoz is a bad team strategy. You don't want other teams to gain time on you.
@@basstheangelo Yes. For sure. There is a rumour that Jumbo Visma was concerned that Ayuso and Enric Mas would drop them and solo into a 4 minutes lead tomorrow. They think this is a good possibility while all the other teams would sit up, let them do it, while all vingegaard, Roglic and Kuss cracked at the same time.
All of these things have to be a legitimate concern at the same time for your argument to be valid
@@basstheangelo🐍🐍🐍
Landa has what's called class.....
What kind of team attacks its own overall GC leader on two successive days?! TJV, that’s who 🤦🏻♂️..maybe Mikel Landa is looking for a new teammate!
Jonas is trying to do the impossible. Win TDF and Vuelta in the same year. It would be an incredible feat if he managed to do that. Sports is cruel since the beginning of mankind. The strongest, smartest, most skillful, etc. always win. That's how competition works.
If Vingegaard wanted to win La vuelta he would by now, he is clearly the best climber by far in this race. It is clear TJV want Kuss to win. Roglic and Vingegaard are attacking so that enough gap is built to the 4th place rider. Even if Kuss is dropped in final mountain stage, they both wont attack him now since they have 3 min gap to 4th place now.
@@basstheangelo Bernard Hinault did the Vuelta / Tour double back in 1978, so it wouldn’t be a first if JV did it this year.
Landa helping Kuss 👏👏👏👏👏👏
Fascinating brutal stage today! Those who are against TJV's antics are thinking way too much with their hearts though. Kuss won all his time in a breakaway, it's not because he is the strongest rider. It's tactically ridiculous for people to suggest that the Tour de France and Giro D'italia winners should ride for a guy who is clearly not as strong as them (unless they aren't competitive themselves) ... let alone ride in service for sixteen stages! I think TJV are giving Kuss a very fair shot at the Vuelta by not having him be on domestique duties like he came into the race anticipating and those who suggest Vingegaard and Roglic should simply gift it as a token gesture of gratitude are surely disrespecting the racing credibility of the Vuelta as one of the three GTs? If I were Kuss then I'd want to win the Vuelta on merit by digging in like he did today with the three riders coming in 1,2,3 and that'll be the best thank you by TJV he could ask for.
Good points. Kuss is the weakest of the three.
Yes, why not? If it doesn't matter who from TJV will win, than why not to work for Kuss, yes as gratitude. Nothing wrong about it. It's just will rase prestige and image of the team. And now, it's giving nothing but impression of ununited team with everyone self ambitions.
Kuss was potentially the strongest on Tourmalet but let Jonas win on team orders. There's a complete lack of respect from Jonas to Kuss and it's showing visibly on camera. Why should Kuss ever work for Jonas again when he can attack if he wants to from now on..
@@christophCymru For sure. Kuss has bled for years for both of those guys.
@@christophCymru The only way for TJV to have lost this tour is for them to have backed Kuss too early, used Vingegaard or Roglic to defend Kuss instead of having them take time on other GC contenders, only for Kuss to have cracked or had a mechanical on a stage like today. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense defensively for TJV to utilise all three offensively, Kuss will know this and it's probably why he is so cool with it and let Vingegaard go on Tourmalet to win. Personally I want Kuss to win, I actually think he may still win because a) the hardest stages are now over and all three have a sizeable advantage to make it a 1,2,3 and b) Vingegaard is incredibly sporting (need only see last years TdF vs Pogacar) but as a DS I know it'd leave Roglic and Vingegaard incredibly frustrated if they were both held back on stages with better legs because Kuss got in a breakaway on stage 6 and then a bad oyster or racing incident costs the whole team the Vuelta.
As we don't know what Kuss said on the radio loosing the wheel of Vingegaard, it's just speculation, and I think Sep want the fight for it, not to be given a victory. And remember how Jonas respectfully waited for his competitor Pogacar last year in the TDF, when Pogacar fell on a descent. Jonas surely wants it to be a fair fight, and Kuss might not be to happy to win, if it can be said that if his team mates had given all they had, he would not have won. Definitely, there is something else going on, than what others are so sure about.
The opening music is superb 🙏🏽
Personally, were I already a multiple grand tour winner....I'd like it if I could help my team mate get at least one in their careers.
Posterity will REMEMBER that.....more than a number.
I wonder whether PR & JV might not have realised that by this time tomorrow?
100%!! Kuss has done so much for both of them in the Giro and Le Tour. He’s clearly capable why not let him take the overall?!
Absolutely
@@aidanpearce250”he’s clearly capable” well he’s not proving it.
Remember, both of them are in a position where they can join very few people who have won two GTs in the same year.
@@suziederkins3310 (love your screen name, BTW!) Sepp is also the only one of them to do all three Grand Tours this season, so there's that ...
Happy Birthday Sepp ! You may o may not win this Vuelta either way you are a true guy you shouldn’t hand up with assholes
Not a lot of celebrating by Primoz or Jonas at the finish......I wonder why
because they would be grilled even more on channels like here... No matter what they do, it is considered wrong by the internet police - you can't win...
@@JespersenPhoto They wouldnt be getting grilled in the first place if they didnt ride like ungrateful pricks. Ungrateful for all the work Sepp has done for them.
They know they are getting trolled on the PR side of the brand. Take the trophy, lose some fan base. It'll be over tomorrow. Sepp will give them and the DS cover, though. Because.... CLASS!
Jumbo losing lots of fans by not protecting Kuss. Help the man win!
That's not competition. Kuss has to prove he has the strongest lungs and legs for 3 weeks. Babying a professional cyclist is bad for spirit of competition and sport. This isn't a movie. This is real life professional cycling competition.
@@basstheangelo that’s major BS. The whole point of team cycling is that the team is stronger than any individual rider. Plenty of examples of GC grand tour winners who never won a stage, they win by being supported by their team and by team members controlling the race and sacrificing their own finish time like SK has done for these two losers. I wonder how many people today decided they would never buy a product from a company sponsoring JV or PR? I can think of a few. This kind of behavior has a way of coming back around, and is already hurting Jumbo as a team.
Rog and Jonas want to snatch that Red from Kuss by leaving him. I think the two are just holding back from doing it because they know they will get backlashed from fans if they decide do that. Well, if Rog and Jonas will do take the red (either of them), that's not being a team player. TVJ has done very well this year, other team members should be allowed to get the glory sometime. But I like the idea of Kuss leaving Jumbo and teaming up with Pog. :D
Kuss was leading JV and Primoz up the mountain like a good domestique. If he wants to win he needs to crush his teammates. Let them race!
That's what I've been saying all along. Let them race each other. It'sa healthy and friendly competition.
Thought I was the only one who noticed Sepp pulling on several stages.
Vuelta's writers are really doing a fine job, a great suspense!
JV is gonna loose some fans if he pulls an a-hole move and beats one of the most liked riders in the peloton.
He wont attack now. Kuss is good enough to handle whoever is in 4th place. They are just securing gap to ensure podium for all 3 and stage wins.
Not the happiest to see Kuss getting ditched, but I do understand that he’s rather his team win than himself. Too humble for his own good.
If Jonas was in red and Sepp attacked at the end for time, TJV and Jonas would be pissed. It's a double standard. I hope Sepp wins.
@@stangy007 Nope! Stop making up these backwards accusations. If Sepp is stronger and can attack Jonas at the end. The team will be happy for him too.
tbh to win all three grand tours with three different drivers in one year is also very impressive…so I‘m routing for sepp
@@BSnicks so at the TDF if Sepp dropped Jonas who’s wearing yellow you think that would be okay? No way!
@@stangy007Jonas didn’t drop Kuss today.
i think Jumbo's plan is taking turns in attacking while the other two hangs on to those responding to attacks. Yesterday was JV. Today was Roglic's turn (i honestly think JV could have attacked him and drop him but he did not). Hopefully Kuss' turn is tomorrow but he looks spent so we will see
To everyone saying let the best man win - Kuss IS THE BEST MAN. He’s on his third grand tour and had he not been so tired helping Jonas and Roglic, they perhaps couldn’t have distanced him. They should’ve taken him with them cuz the other teams weren’t in contention and it was a chance to help him. It’s no gift - if it is, everything that Kuss has done for them was a gift too.
Landa probably would have won the stage. And no, even a fresh Kuss won't keep with Jonas. He's ridiculously stronger. Remember, they're barely separated and Jonas was ill in the first week to the point of shitting during the stage
After all the work that Kuss has put for Roglic and Vingegaard, it's very distasteful what they are doing. Not that it matters to them or the team, but I am glad I did not buy the TJV's kit as I was intending to. I'll wait and see where Kuss goes.
Kuss should go to another team and actually become GC rider in my opinion he is good enough to be top 10 or even top 5 in grand tours
Great team mates Roglic and Jonas 😂😂😂 That's what Sepp gets for all them years of help.
Jonas could have attacked and won this stage, he was holding back letting Roglic win.. should either have attacked early on the steep or stayed with Sepp… think Roglics’s second attack was surprising for Sepp and Jonas. Anyways Jonas could have closed the GC today but didn’t… remember that.
Stayed with Sepp aNd possibly let Rog supersede him in GC? Sure 😅
Remember that Roglic didn't give his full power. I'm sure he could drive away from JV if he wanted
@@HARDSTYLEy Sure 😂
@@HARDSTYLEyno way in hell. He couldn't even drop Mas yesterday
@@ShadowboostHe dropped him today and heavily so🤷🏼♂️
2020 sepp waited for primoz on the angliru...this is how he repays him.
Just wondering what happens if one of the JV leaders gets a puncture? Will they give a wheel to their team mate? or just keep riding for themselves and let support car or another team mate well back to catch up? I hope racing as individuals don't bite them in the butt.
Only Roglic should outta the 3.
Hopefully it happens to JV and Roglic. Sepp wins and is the only JV member on the podium. That would be karma!
Sepp would because he is a man of God
I thought stage 13 was the queen's stage. How many queens are there?
Yeah. Is this Fire Island?
If the king has a harem, then there can be unlimited queens.
Drama queens ...apparently
Straight up Back Stab. Not cool No excuse. They should not WAIT but PULL!!!!! Bull
This has shades of the La Vie Claire team.
If yeah…. History repeats itself, but it’s a Dutch team this time!
Remember when ODM just suddenly pulled the whole team out the Tour? Yeah they were all caught out… something in this sport will never change
Yes, the Badger came right in the end, so hopefully JV will too...😊
Exactly.
Hinault making Lemond work so hard for the job as winner.
There is no value in a win handed to you out of pity. Kuss needs to go off tomorrow and show these guys he deserves the win.
@@Krunch2020 , Vingegaard is getting this win handed to him because he is the biggest contract.
Jumbo looks so strong. Its unreal to watch them race. I wish people would stop making them out to fight each other. There is a lot of reapect between the three riders.
That’s for the cameras, no overall threat and yet you leave the leader of the race to fight for himself ?..mmm 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 cone on.
Exactly... no overall threat. So why not have the strongest rider (who ever that might be) win the race. They are anyway going to end 1,2,3, why not let them race? How is it any more ethical "giving" Sepp the win, then having them go at it and give it their best shot?@@lazlo2511
No respect at all for Kus though...
@@lazlo2511 Kuss has to earn it. He can't hold back his teammates.
Sepp we’re rooting for you 🫶
The body language of Jonas towards Sepp at the end looks to me like they are not a 'team' at all. Sepp has smashed himself for Jonas ans Primos and it looked very much like they 'owe him nothing' bad vibes indeed
C’mon Sepp! Hope you find a team that values you.
Money, plenty of it buys big stars, and we're seeing the result of it this year. Let's hope it doesn't all end in tears
Watching here! Philippines 😊
It would be like a fairy tale if Kuss would win surrounded by 2 GT winners on the podium and I would actually also like to see that come true.
But to suggest that Jonas and Roglic being captains and 2nd and 3rd should suddenly act as domeistiques to Kuss who got the lead not by racing the GT contenders but in a break away that got lucky is just stupid.
If Jonas and/or Roglic were far behind it is a different scenario.
Having the red jersey Kuss dont have to be a domestique and is treated like a co-captain, which is fair.
If he is strong enough he will keep the jersey and win.
Besides, I am sure that JumboVisma has an agreed gameplan.
I am also confident that Jonas could have taken the lead today if he wanted, but he did not push but just stayed on the wheel of Roglic and stated in an interview that he hopes Kuss can keep the 8 second lead and Win.
Yesterday he won for Nathan and was permitted to attack as he had "the legs". It might as well have been Kuss or Roglic that attacked but they did not.
So it is up to Kuss to stay at the front and keep up with the GT contenders.
Agree, it's just a hollow victory if it is common knowledge that it was gifted you, there is no sense of achievement or pride if you don't have at least appear to fight for it. I had to turn the NBC commentary off - Bob Dole and Vande Lance were an embarrassment.
Must be a game plan… today’s results sure point us in that direction, so tomorrow is D-day for Sepp, he must now attempt an attack one last time or face losing the game…
That's not how it works at all
Well spoken. In a Grand tour best rider is supposed to win. Give away a Stage win is ok but not the GC. Would devalue la Vuelta.
All those words of thanks to their (Roglic & Vingegaard) teammates after victories ring very hollow now. Anyone who has raced a bike knows how much it can hurt and there must be something which drives you on (e.g. personal loyalty) and it isn’t just a question of money. Words are cheap and actions speak louder than words. I hope Sepp goes on to win then leaves Jumbo at the first opportunity.
Vingegaard wants Kuss to keep the jersey, but Roglic wants to compete... If Kuss can follow Roglic the rest of the week, he will win the Vuelta
I would like to see Vingegaard become one of the few riders who have won two grand tour titles in the same year. After all this is a competition so I see no reason why JV shouldn't win GC.
There are very few riders I dislike more than this guy…let me count them….nah, none…I dislike no one more than the greedy kid
TJV will win La Vuelta 2023. The excitement is just about who will win it. We don't even care if Remco is still in the race or not anymore.
But that reveals who you are for real - that disgusts me@@tonyg3091
Primoz is in the same position having won the Giro.
He still has many years to get that achievement. But the chance to piss off his superdomestique and potential lead him to change teams is unique. Obviously I don't know about internal communications and how Kuss would handle this but if it was me, my TJV contract would end asap and off to UAE or wherever Remco is I'm next.
Primoz ride for Sepp Kuss' Birthday guys.
Complete BS! Everyone in the team is expected to support JV but, when someone else gets the lead they get attacked and not supported. Now I understand why WVA was passed in the TDF.
2022 TDF was fair WVA was green jersey amazing to watch.. 2023 TDF Jumbo Visma put all efforts into Jonas, making WVA look selfish on Netflix to control his desire to win...WVA should have won at least one stage before he abandoned for his son's birth.
Sepp no longer needs to work for these 2 non teammates. Really? He has busted his legs for years for these 2 and this is what they give back. No longer a Jumbo fan. Sepp fan for sure though.
Happy Birthday Sepp. JV & PR😢
LET THE DISCUSSION BEGIN!
I Will start 😂 when you ar strong in tt we al expekt you give it All, wy is it wrong you give it All when your an Mountain specialist???
The Kuss is loose! Let’s go Sepp!
I’m hoping TJV is just messing with the rest of the peloton by keeping everyone guessing. Maybe privately they just wanted to get the other two closer to Kuss but in reality they will close for Kuss in the end…I hope so anyway
Landa is a true gentleman!
It's over now for Kuss. What a guy! More proud of his talent, fight, and class than ever.
I predict Jonas attacks tomorrow on the final climb and puts 30-40 seconds into him plus bonus. Roglic 2nd. Sepp finishes 4th or 5th with no help in the last 5 km. Fix is in. DS is taking care of their GC investment, Jonas. Those who follow closely, know how much he has contributed to what will be 7 grand tour victories. Most of all, Sepp knows. His positivity and gratitude in spite of his sacrifices is inspiring.
Teammates attacking teammates who are already in the lead. Complete insanity. Kuss will be on a different team next year. Watch. Primoz and Jonas are losing their strongest ally.
That's what he's supposed to do. He Jumbos top lieutenant. He's not there to win grand tours. Roglic and Jonas are paid to win grand tours, there success as bike riders is on how they did in grand tours. Why people think they are going to let Kuss win because he's American and it's a great story is hilarious. Even Sepp has said he doesn't want to win that way
@@abuckeye26 not because he’s American moron 🤦♂️ but because he’s their teammate and they should be supporting who’s already in the lead. The only thing hilarious is Jumbo obvious team dysfunction. Kuss confirmed after the race he asked them to hold up.
Interesting, on the climbs its every man for themselves, pointless staying together unless it flattens off
Stage 18 is a mountain finish so I predict TJV staying together until then
If another team wants to get big time they need to go at 80-90km
@@Mike0 you must never watch racing. It has never been “every man for himself”. Cycling is a team sport, unless an American is in the lead apparently.. Suddenly it’s “every man for himself” hahahahah convenient rule change for Europeans.
How come that Jumbo-Visma's finest won't help the race leader but rather fight him? He who in the past helped each one of his team mates to win? He who has shown so much sportsmanship in the past really could do with the support of his "friends".
Or am I being naive?
Yes, you're being naive. The idea to support the "leader" is to race for the one who has the best chance of winning the race, ie the strongest rider of the team.
@@Shadowboost No. This race has been over for awhile now. But JV and PR are being selfish.
@@Shadowboostthe race is over now they have a big gap in gc. They dont need to attack him anymore in the next stages. Kuss proved already that he is a strong rider keeping red while riding in his 3rd grand tour of the yr. If jv and pr attacks him in the last 4 stages knowing they already have an insurmountable lead will show their selfishness not protecting their leader.
@@elinoracedo7430 the leader is the strongest rider. It look like Jonas is the strongest among the three.
I'm totally rooting for Kuss, but people are being a little harsh on JV/PR. There are several very good reasons they might want to get time on JV/PR - stage wins, securing 2nd/3rd, having a backup incase Kuss blows up (he is not normally a GC rider after all). Plus they are only dropping Kuss on steep ascents where there isn't much pulling to be done. That all said, it's also possible they simply have a "let the best man win" approach to this one since top 3 is in the bag - if so, that is a real shame but I kind of get it.
Pulling on the steep climb is important. It has a psychological benefits. The minimal drafting can also help the cyclists to endure longer and save energy. Any grand tour riders would tell you that haing a teammate is important especially when you crack. Runners who run in group run faster even if you eliminate the effect of drafting. He could have had one of them to sprint for the stage and have another guy drafting Sepp up. Let's just be honest here. No one really thought that Landa would be able to not only catch up but also out sprint them if they rode together
Its turning into a bit of a PR head ache now . I mean they had loads of wiggle room today to play with .The fallout from it tonight will be telling tomorrow to observe if any deals have been struck.
PR disaster for TJV today. A sorry way to treat someone on their birthday!
@@robscarrow5108 professional cyclists for goodness sakes, not a bunch of school kids. Plus it’s a race.
Landa / Bahrain was awesome... Really took it to JV... And most of all he didn't try to hard against Sepp so he could come third and get bonus seconds.
Interesting dinner conversations at Team Jumbo Visma…
Well how deep will Mr Kuss go next time his teammates need him after attacking the race leader who made it possible for you to get glory. Yes JV and Roglics, Gentlemen I can assure you that you lost a lot of American fans today.
Sepp basically has to race this GC without domestiques as JV and Roglic don't play that role...
Listen to yourselves !!. Has anyone EVER given a Tour victory away to anybody else ?. This is not a kindergarten, where everyone gets to win. This is a grand tour. Show some respect to the race, and race for the victory. May the best rider win in Madrid
It's by far more complex since Kuss was so much times the key for the success of the others. At least it would be a great sign of a great team spirit, that Jumbo has and there's no real danger to lose the red to another team. I could understand it if he really has a multiple minutes gap to Rogliz or Jonas, but that's at least currently not the case.
Listen to yourself. Has anyone ever TAKEN a Tour victory from their teammate, when the GC was already sewn up for the team?
@@notreally2406 Yes. Greg Lemond from Bernard Hinault.
Study up, son.