I was trying to figure out how I’d map this board when I realized that the default layout was making me look at it the wrong way. Move the home row up one and suddenly instead of a Moonlander missing 20 keys I see a Planck that’s been split and gained 5 keys. That’s pretty appealing.
@@nickgoogle4525 Of course they don't; they're fine. But by sacrificing the number row to move your hand up one row you do get *more* thumb keys to work with.
@@SaveMeAzathoth ? The bottom row will not be usable good as thumb keys, if that is what you suggest. At least for me, but I find your approach to think outside the box good, although it will not be for me.
@@nickgoogle4525 I expect the exact thumb-convenient range to vary from person to person, but I think most people would expect to get at least a few keys based on what the thumb already handles on other boards. - The Voyager puts B and N where the Planck puts its spacebar, and V and M where the Planck puts Lower and Raise - basically all meant to be handled by the thumb. - C and , are still in a zone that I’d consider convenient to the thumb (e.g. Voyager’s C is where my Cmd key goes on Moonlander and Planck). - X and . are comparable in position to the modifiers on either size of a standard spacebar for thumb reachability (so not great but lots of people probably could manage if they really needed the keys). - Z and / is stretching it (for me pinky beats thumb, but honestly probably better to map something that isn’t touch typed). - Bottom outer corners are candidates for palm strikes or non-touch type to avoid the pinky stretch.
Thanks, great review. Would love a followup video after a couple of months of use; especially detailing how you're setting up layers, key mappings, RSI flare-ups, thumb cluster assessment, etc. God bless.
I bought the voyager after watching a few videos (yours included, so this comment is super late lol), I also bought the tripod kit from ZSA. I'm running tripods clamped to my desk and can get any angles that I want, typing at a very natural angle, it feels amazing. Nice review!
As the Voyager is marketed as being built around portability I'm guessing the loop at 24:05 is to fix the case to the internal leash of a tech bag, so the chances of it getting lost amongst other gear/having to reach further into the bag in order to get it out are minimised.
The loop inside the pocket is for the feet holder. The loop between the flaps is to connect it to a carabiner or a backpack or a key-ring. My Voyager came with the feet holder in the pocket.
To add to the previous comment, perhaps if you move the feet holder into the pocket, you will have more space for a cable in the fold of the case. 💡 Just a thought - still waiting for my Voyager. 🤔 Very nice review btw. 👍
I’m recently fascinated by these custom keyboards and started actually learning typing and maybe in the future will pickup one of these ergo keyboards. So thanks for the review.
I have an Apple keyboard for my iPad and it was a bit expensive. Just ordered a Voyager and I can’t wait to get my hands on it. I also looked at keyboard kits but the cost was about the same, but a lot less hassle. Thinking about going the full monty and trying out colmak for the layout of the keys.
Thank you for the in-depth review of the Voyager. I currently use a different split keyboard and have been debating whether the Voyager would help me or not. I appreciate a review that gets into the little details like this.
Have you looked at Dygma Defy? It has 8 keys in thumb cluster to lessen the work load for pinky. It's being delivered now for preorders and I'm waiting for mine.
Thanks for reviewing this, I'm considering picking it up! If you're struggling with layouts to reduce pinky usage, I had the same issue. My layout now uses the "tap" vs "hold" on my home row keys, so that e.g. in my qwerty layout when I hold "s" it gives me "shift", hold "d" for "control", hold "f" for a layer switch to give me a numpad on my right hand, and hold "g" for meta. I mirror that in my right hand too, with the only difference being that when I hold "j" instead of a numpad I get a symbol pad on my left hand. It takes a little getting used to and I definitely make silly typing mistakes every now but it means I hardly ever need to use my pinky fingers while typing anymore- just the odd quote or tab.
Faster than I do with a normal keyboard, and I can keep it up, I don't start feeling like I'm killing my fingers. It's true you do have to give yourself enough time to hold the key down when you need to activate one of those modifiers, but the extra time is negligibly more than what it takes me to stretch out my pinky to hold down the traditional shift or ctrl keys. The improvement is even more for typing out numbers versus stretching for the numbers on the top of the keyboard (though I find it is still nice to have those available). Reply
0:46 Well, if you itemize your taxes, or run your channel as a separate business... 1:44 My thoughts on RSI is the biggest thing we can do is type less. Macros to change "print(" or whatever into a single keystroke should reduce movements more than any ergonomic change probably could. What do you think? Something with a real-time / live macro recorder would help with specific variable names, etc., differently than programming standard words ahead of time. 11:02 Ben Vallack, perhaps?
The biggest thing that creates RSI are identical movements. Which is why RSI is typically created by touch typing. So the solution is either to reposition the hand so that it's in the most comfortable position and the movement is the most natural, and/or to make movements as varied and chaotic as possible.
Wait it looks like ctrl, cmd and opt keys are all missing? How do you get by with just an OS key and a layer key? It looks like a wonderful keyboard otherwise but right now I feel like the lack of extra thumb cluster and missing modifiers is a deal breaker unless I’m missing something !
Hey, I've had a look at your Voyager keyboard layout on Oryx and noticed that you dedicated you F and J keys to home row mod for shift. If you want shift on the thumb cluster you could add a hold action on where you have your return key, because how often do you need to hold return? This is what I have done anyway.
Thank you for this review! There's very little info about the Voyager and I thought I was on my own. I've been using the Planck, and like the commenter below, was also stumped at how to map the Voyager. The Oryx site only has two Voyager layouts up at this point ( maybe my search was off) so the more I hear what others are doing the more I feel comfortable with the keyboard. Looking forward to your follow-up video.
You could use #00E2C0 as layer/key color to make look it white. And yeah, having the hue changed by the switches is slightly annoying. Really enjoying the Voyager so far!!
Thank you for the video I think you’re gonna convinced a lot of us. I’m just a little bit disappointed that there is a lot of comparison with the moonlander would have been great to have more config tips and show how layers work. Really enjoyable anyway. Thanks
Very nice. I was looking at this when trying to decide which split keyboard to buy for my first split. I just couldn't justify the price. I ended up building my own Iris from Keebio. With the metal plate option, it feels very sturdy and well built. But they're both similar in size and layout. The Voyager has two fewer keys but is also slimmer with lower profile keycaps. If I had the disposable income, I probably would have gone with the Voyager for the ease of use out of the box. Though I'm kind of glad I got the Iris with 56 keys (4 om each thumb cluster) now that I have it in hand. I like this form factor though. Still just starting to get used to my first split board so not sure how it will work out yet, but I like it. I think if I stick with split boards and pick this up quickly, I might look at the Voyager for a travel option since I could set its layers up similar to my Iris' layers without sacrificing much. But I'd like to see 56 or 58 keys on a Mark II board. Would also like to see a board of this price ditch the TRRS cable for a USB-C one.
I have the same problem with pain in my left pinky. I tried many keyboards and ended up chanding my typing style to not use my left pinky at all. Making this change was easier than learning a new keyboard layout. Recently I started watching younger members of my team type, those who have had a laptop throughout high school (I definitely didn't) and most of them only use the first three fingers per hand to type very quickly, also they rely more on the mouse since they have been playing games all their life they have good mouse skills. Sometimes it's ok to let young ppl on your lawn.
The amount of thumb keys is what convinced me to back the Dygma Defy instead of getting a ZSA or pre-built open source design. Because of the similar MSRP I'm looking forward to compare it against your Voyager review!
My defy finally gets here tomorrow. Pretty excited. That being said… I bought it a long time ago with the intent to game. I started eye balling this and remembered I bought the defy last week. I also don’t game nearly as much. I wonder if using thumb keys for layers is as enjoyable in the typing experience. I just liked thumb hot keys in my vidya
Do you think you could comfortably use it with a thumbstick, like the gmk keyboard adjacent one? Magnetically attached to the bottom or back? I'm thinking of getting a Voyager to mount to my chair, but would want to integrate a mini joystick or touch pad to it.
Thank you for this fantastic video. I'd like to change to a split keyboard... But it a long journey... Last year, I purchased a keyboard with a 65% layout (Snowfox with Clicky MX). This switch was fantastic. After nearly a year, I purchased a Keychron K2 Pro (Snowfox lacks QMK), but with Tactile Brown switches and different keycaps than before, however the Tactile switches were not for me. For improved ergonomics, I am considering Voyager, Kyria Rev3, or Corne. I'm looking forward to your next Voyager movie
I swear.. I am going to build my own board soon if someone doesn't make the perfect one for me. lol. This board is almost there. The Iris that I use is pretty close too. I think most of us mechanical keyboard nuts have a variety of boards and wish we could combine a few things we like in each in to one perfect board, then have about 5 or 10 of those in backup should we ever need more. Like that perfect shoe you finally find (especially if you got big ass feet like me at size 14 to 15).. and it wears out and you go to buy another pair and they no longer make it! I bought the Lily58 Lulu version from boardsource with the aluminum frame and its fantastic. BUT.. I am an Iris fan.. been building them from rev 2 days. That said, I would love to see the thumb layout of this board (with the smaller keys being 1.5 instead of 1 size) but have two keys in the middle for the strong index finger. The problem with lily58/lulu is its 1 key and a dial (or a small key). I loved my Model 01 and got used to using the index finger (left hand) for tab and right hand for enter. But I didnt like the thumb cluster and it was a bit too big for travel use. The Iris and lily58 like this one are just small enough to take in a bag with your laptop so you have a keyboard and not use the laptop keyboard which I cant stand. So I'd say if you could build this board with those 2 buttons in the middle (even one on each side), plus case options like the iris heavy aluminum cases (Love them.. keyboard doesnt move and in a pinch they are truly a weapon if thrown).. but with these new choco low profile switches and keys.. and maybe one addition thumb key a little fruther back below the c/v key, for additional functions like F keys or arrow key layer switching, etc.. but keep the rgb LEDs this has to indicate layers, etc.. and lastly have tenting options that are not the crappy swing legs that never lock, or a specific one angle only the Iris board is, or the flimsy plastic crap the Lulu/Lily board comes with, and now you've got what could be the best board for typing/coder typing, gaming and anything else. Offer some sort of stable metal based connector of different lenghts to attach to the two borads in to a sort of single like what the Kinesis splits offer.. while ensuring tenting works for different angles.. and we're done. That's what I want! :D
Have you considered offloading some of the work to foot switches/pedals. I've actually done it a few times over the years for everything from keyboard functions to simply clicking with my mouse when dealing with RSI.
7 місяців тому
I've purchased this keyboard a month ago and I think it is an interesting keyboard indeed. I have got a written first-impression article coming on my blog soon. I detail how I configured it, especially the layers. Can I share it here newxt week? Thanks for your review.
Envy! I am waiting for mine... in the meantime I also bought a ZipKit for the Moonlander to reduce the keys so to match the voyager and not have to adapt to the different layout. Have you considered trying something like Miryoku to significantly reduce the movement of the fingers?
I believe the Miryoku layout has three keys on the thumb cluster, so it's a little hard to port over to the Voyager. I've been drawing inspiration from it though!
@@ifcodingwerenatural that is correct and I got an idea from a contact I have with ZSA where I have shifted the keys higher up, having the third button on the lowest layer. I will test it when I get it, but if you want to give it a try I have made a layout on Oryx that I am in the process of customizing
idk how much configuration the keymap on your Voyager has, but for qmk, you can map a key to do one thing when hold and another when just tap. So for me I make the home row i.e. asdf to command, control, option, shift when hold, so I don't have use my pinky for those modifier keys, same thing for the right side hjkl keys and they'll just type regular letters when I tap the keys
Not sure if this will help with less pinky use on your left. I use the base of my left pinky to press and hold CTRL. I'm not sure if the profile of the Voyager is low enough that it would impede that. Ordered mine yesterday and I'm excited to start customizing the keys. Also, where did you end up assigning your bracket keys?
for a cheaper alternative that still gives you an aggresive vertical finger offset, the piantor kit by beekeeb has been great. The only thing I miss from the moonlander is the firmware. I found the moonlander had way too many keys in my opinion, so I ended up just not using the top and bottom rows almost entirely. don't let the lower key count scare you, for me it's better.
Nice to have someone say the Kinesis well shape is comfortable. I have been wondering many years with it in my wishlist. I wonder if you have thought about adding one of them Elgato foot switches as another replacement for the thumb key you lost.
I m waiting for my Defy, but i’m seriously visiting returning it and picking up this one because of it form factor. It will be helpful if you could answer a couple of my questions: - Are the LEDs on this bright enough? - what is your opinion on black vs white? I m considering white but not sure if RGB shines better through them. I prefer to color code my layered keys. - Are these comfortable in longer coding session without a palm wrest? - Do the keys wobble? The low profile keys on my Dygma Raise or Logitech are not very stable. How do they feel?
You cat try looking into home-row mods (with something like a one-time shift on a thumb) to reduce your RSI. It definitely takes some time adjusting to, but it feels just so much better once you've used it for a while
I've been using homerow mods on the Kinesis to help reduce pinky movement. And on this keyboard, I feel like homerow mods are a must. And yes, the tapping term can be configured globally or on a per-key basis. The default timing does feel a bit sluggish to me.
@@ifcodingwerenaturalTry looking into PERMISSIVE_HOLD if you’re using qmk. It allows you to use the modifier when held if you have a key press nested inside of it e.g. k1down k2down k2up k1up where k1 is your mod tap key. That way you can type fast and consistent without thinking about timings. (Keep in mind I use something other than qmk so you might need to look into it a bit more) I used to be annoyed by homerowmods because of those annoying timings but now I see no disadvantages to them (unless gaming ofc)
a third button on the bottom is definitely missing. having cmd there would be great. coming for a 75$ low profile keychron (regular, non-split keyboard though), the pricing of this at > 350$ is wild
Just curious, how long did it take for yours to ship and arrive? They say 3 weeks, but I think they said the same for my Ergodox a year ago and it was only a week. But this is a new product
Can I ask what your tenting angle was on the Moonlander? It’s weird that you get RSI using it. Also which coding actions cause you the most pain? In Oryx I set up a macro for () => amongst other things, and a symbols layer. I honestly can’t see how the Voyager would help more with RSI. P.S. I use my own variation of Colemak. On the right it’s Colemak except I swap the Y and the O. On the left it’s basically still QWERTY except for the P, which is Colemak, and FG and RT have swapped rows.
hi, which switches does the keyboard from the video has? looking for quite one one ... but hard to find video with comparison ... or a demo like how cloud 9 has ergo tlk sound comparison
hey, i may be too late for you to read this comment. but have you looked into the home row modifier key concept? i have been thinking about trying this as well since it reduces the need of using the pinky finger for modifier keys, especially ctrl. so, basically you use assign ASDF and JKL; modifier key functionality when holding the keys while using keeping their traditional tapping functionality as the respective keys. i think it's definitely worth trying it out in your situation. on another note, you may also want to think about removing the number keys and shifting the whole rest one row up. this enables you to use the lowest row also via the thumb. i just stumbled upon this idea by accident while looking through public setups on the oryx configurator. this might tackle the lack of thumb keys but i'm not so sure since i don't have the keyboard at hand to try it out. and a request to end it, can you record a video of you using the keyboard? i'm interested how the hand fits onto the keyboard since i only see images and never see how the hands and fingers actually use a keyboard. alright, that's all. have a nice day!
Have had a white one for 2 years now the white collects dust and particles and looks really gross after a while. It gets into the porous keycaps and just becomes permanent have tried to clean it with brushes and soap still won't come out.
Nice early review. I have been holding out on the Moonlander due to assuming we would get an MK2 at some point, but who knows... Going to need to have a good think whether the 52 keys is enough.
Wait a moment. Are you saying @12:38 .. that you're using special keyboards because of your pinky fingers but the Moonlander didn't work out for you *because you* didn't shift the most painful keys away from your hurting fingers to less painful locations? I'm having a little of a hard time justifying blaming the keyboard there… ;)
The pinky finger revelation came later, but yeah, you're not totally wrong. However, my RSI comes back within a few minutes of typing on the Moonlander, even with homerow mods (i.e., less pinky movement).
Human hands are so weird, right? All built using the same plan, yet so very different. I hope you keep finding tech solutions to keep you going. Having to resort to surgery is rather scary and they don't give any guarantee that it will work and not get even worse. I'm using my Moonlander with their Platform accessory set to maximum tenting. That makes it even more expensive (still much better than be out of a job, of course), but it circumvents a few of the issues you've had. The extra heft of the metal construction makes it stand very solidly, and I don't have to fiddle around with the leggy thingies. The wrist rests I took off as I'd have to bend my hand joints to reach them which to me doesn't feel healthy. Instead, I'm using custom elbow rests on my chair to have my hands hover exactly where they should (hopefully). Since we're likely to have rather different hands the experience won't translate, but maybe someone can take some level of hint away from me sharing this. Currently - it's been only a few weeks - I'm still very optimistic. My pain isn't gone by any stretch but it has shifted to a region where it's far easier to deal with for now. Also, I'm just transitioning to (a personally tweaked version of) colemak-dh because this is my first ortholinear board and the good old Apple ABC layout doesn't work at all anymore, so my fingers are going through a ton of extra effort right now - I expect a lot of further improvement after the reconditioning of muscle memory was successful. Also also I'm not doing what I'm preaching and still use my own pinkies for Shift, time to adress that. ;)
Sure, it's just one that I picked up on amazon... and you just made me go down the rabbit hole of setting up an amazon affiliate account 😅: amzn.to/459Pxa0
I know this video is older now, but I would love to see a "programming typing test" - rather than monkey type. I'm considering this and the Kinesis, and the thing that scares me is how difficult it might be to type " { " and " } " all the time.
I'm more tempted than ever to switch to colemak with this keyboard. I've attempted a few times and can't quit commit. Layout is still a work in progress, but you can find it here: configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/wGj0j
@@karesztrk It's about the same, but the low profile keys are more comfy to type on so it could go up after getting more used to this keyboard. I used to be able to hit 150 WPM on my apple keyboard, but haven't been able to get those speeds since switching to a mechanical keyboard. But typing speed is a fairly low goal for me.
try to use different layout. For me it was colemak dh. Just watch the videos or the documentation. The typing speed will decreased at first, but ull see how much improvement it gives. Ur fingers stay at home row most of the time. It helps me a lot
Oh this is a tough one. I was planning on getting the voyager. I'm a huge fan of the moonlander, but I do like the flat layout of the voyager. It feels too small. And your review doesn't really clear that up.
How is your RSI symptoms with the Voyager? I am a software engineer too, and I am thinking between Voyager vs. kenesis advantage 360. If the Voyager does not make your RSI worse, then I think im gonna stick with it. I would appreciate your input, thank you in advance. btw I like your review videos, keep it up 🔥
My RSI wasn’t an issue for me on the Voyager, I think because of home row mods. But it’s different for everyone. The greatly decreased pinky movements seemed to be the key for me.
I watched your video on the Moergo ... and then ... waited .. and waited ... and waited for it to get here with China post ;) .... but finally I got it... I have about 5 minutes typing on it, but I think it is going to be my favourite. I am a Kinesis user for the last 10+ keys ..... so the "wanting to kill people when I have to type" phase is not something I have to enjoy going to this.... The only thing I am not feeling yet is the + and - keys, they feel a lot more further than it is on the Kinesis Advantage 2 ... I went with the blue clicky ... whatever colour is their clicky. It is clicky and id sounds really nice. ... Either way ... thanks for the video .... :) and yeah .. I should have ordered the double USB cable, but whatever ... my desk is a snake pit anyway, 2 more USB-C cables really do not make a difference...
PS : ever since I used a Magic keyboard and a Kinesis, I wanted a keyboard that was mechanical, clicky, tactile, but chiclet keycaps.. oh and key-well as well ... my gaming keyboard is a Logiteck TKL, blue clicky and chiclet keys, but that's the closest I came to this. When I saw this on your video I knew that I would love this. Took about 5 minutes to figure how to flash it ... Kinesis-like profile, swapped to Mac keys, and put ESC under Z and turned CAPS into a left control ... was up and running in less than 10 minutes. Also ... good documentations AFAIK and really feature rich. Such a shame the new Kinesis 360 all the problems, I was ready to order one, but after reading all the bad reviews I just gave up on them. I still love my Advantage 2 though. That is one great keyboard..... Hmm ... these keys feel a bit slippery ... I wonder how they are when they break in. Do these break in ? (The Moergo keys??) ... Also .. I touch-type but still appreciate the RGB ... I am a sucker for RGB .... just one colour is fine, bit it's just cool that it's glowing ... Cheers...
Share the layout you're using. :) Also, that little thing in the pocket is to move the metal plaque that holds the magnetic feet inside the pocket if you so wish. It's exactly the same as the loop where it hangs.
You have your keyboard so close to the edge of the desk that the wings hang off/your palms are resting on the edge of the table? Could this be a contributor to your RSI problems? Every ergonomic tips video I've ever watched strong advises not to have that and have your arms resting on the desk, flush with the arms of your chair and with your shoulders in a normal position.
If you go back and rewatch that part, I specifically mention resting my palms *on* my desk. I should've clarified how much, but the wings would only hang off about an inch (2-3 cm) or so. But that's all it takes for it to be a problem. Having your keyboard too far away is also non-ergonomic, and everyone is different for what's comfortable. For me, the sweet spot meant the wings hung off a little.
What youre seeing at 4:00 is probably a 3d model, not the actual product lol. Its probably not a 1:1 replica of the real product, which is why you think you see gaps or w.e. you said.
I actually lowered the number of keys to 34 keys and it feels great. Using some arms meant for camera rigging and cell phone magnetic attachments, I was able to set them up completely horizontal and it is the most ergonomic experience I’ve ever had.
Well, I really don't think I was waiting for a $365.00 keyboard. Having said that, it does look amazing. So, when the price drops to $65.00, I will definitely check it out.
@@F-aber The prices will drop. Remember, these keyboards all have replaceable, swappable keys. That's expensive and unnecessary - at least for me. Get rid of all that baggage and it becomes a normal keyboard with a funny shape and a couple of extra keys. The price for this type of keyboard will be about the same as all the regular ones.
@@itiswhatitis8179 there are a lot of ergo keyboards without these features, they have been at these or even higher prices for years, some models even close to a decade. When your target audience need your device to work properly you can get a way with pretty high prices
man that keyboard looks great... it is kind of expensive though... I am currently taking a look of the dilemma max... for my traveling keyboard. Nice video!
Personally I think its uglier because of the outline of it following the keys. Makes it look messy imo. Also not a fan of only two keys for the thumb cluster. I do like how slim it is though and the low profile keys. If they used that in the Moonlander, that would be my ideal.
"Very weak pre-frontal cortex" had me dead and earned you another sub 😂
same lolol
@@jbpandit same, so gonna use that line!
Thank you for the IN-DEPTH keyboard reviews. I appreciate that your reviews are focused on quality, usefulness, and overall comfort.
I agree that 3rd button for thumb would help a lot in my opinion.
I was trying to figure out how I’d map this board when I realized that the default layout was making me look at it the wrong way. Move the home row up one and suddenly instead of a Moonlander missing 20 keys I see a Planck that’s been split and gained 5 keys. That’s pretty appealing.
Nice!
The thumb keys will not move up!
@@nickgoogle4525 Of course they don't; they're fine. But by sacrificing the number row to move your hand up one row you do get *more* thumb keys to work with.
@@SaveMeAzathoth ? The bottom row will not be usable good as thumb keys, if that is what you suggest. At least for me, but I find your approach to think outside the box good, although it will not be for me.
@@nickgoogle4525 I expect the exact thumb-convenient range to vary from person to person, but I think most people would expect to get at least a few keys based on what the thumb already handles on other boards.
- The Voyager puts B and N where the Planck puts its spacebar, and V and M where the Planck puts Lower and Raise - basically all meant to be handled by the thumb.
- C and , are still in a zone that I’d consider convenient to the thumb (e.g. Voyager’s C is where my Cmd key goes on Moonlander and Planck).
- X and . are comparable in position to the modifiers on either size of a standard spacebar for thumb reachability (so not great but lots of people probably could manage if they really needed the keys).
- Z and / is stretching it (for me pinky beats thumb, but honestly probably better to map something that isn’t touch typed).
- Bottom outer corners are candidates for palm strikes or non-touch type to avoid the pinky stretch.
Thanks, great review. Would love a followup video after a couple of months of use; especially detailing how you're setting up layers, key mappings, RSI flare-ups, thumb cluster assessment, etc. God bless.
Super helpful review, thankyou. Appreciated the comparisons, and keen to see how the 52 key layout works for you over time :)
Danke!
I bought the voyager after watching a few videos (yours included, so this comment is super late lol), I also bought the tripod kit from ZSA. I'm running tripods clamped to my desk and can get any angles that I want, typing at a very natural angle, it feels amazing.
Nice review!
As the Voyager is marketed as being built around portability I'm guessing the loop at 24:05 is to fix the case to the internal leash of a tech bag, so the chances of it getting lost amongst other gear/having to reach further into the bag in order to get it out are minimised.
The loop inside the pocket is for the feet holder. The loop between the flaps is to connect it to a carabiner or a backpack or a key-ring. My Voyager came with the feet holder in the pocket.
To add to the previous comment, perhaps if you move the feet holder into the pocket, you will have more space for a cable in the fold of the case. 💡
Just a thought - still waiting for my Voyager. 🤔
Very nice review btw. 👍
Would love to hear an update about it later on after some usage, love the video btw! Thanks
thanks for the video. nobody else has made a video on this yet so you are the first.
Been looking for a review of this keyboard. Appreciate it!
a commercially available choc keyboard is a HUGE step in the right direction for the hobby... incredible
I’m recently fascinated by these custom keyboards and started actually learning typing and maybe in the future will pickup one of these ergo keyboards. So thanks for the review.
I have an Apple keyboard for my iPad and it was a bit expensive. Just ordered a Voyager and I can’t wait to get my hands on it. I also looked at keyboard kits but the cost was about the same, but a lot less hassle. Thinking about going the full monty and trying out colmak for the layout of the keys.
Thanks for the review! It's super helpful.
I'm interested in seeing a video on how you setup and customized you voyager as a software developer!
Thank you for the review. I’m convinced, ordering one soon.
This keyboard is still probably my favorite, hope you enjoy it!
Thank you for the in-depth review of the Voyager. I currently use a different split keyboard and have been debating whether the Voyager would help me or not. I appreciate a review that gets into the little details like this.
Have you looked at Dygma Defy? It has 8 keys in thumb cluster to lessen the work load for pinky. It's being delivered now for preorders and I'm waiting for mine.
Thanks for reviewing this, I'm considering picking it up!
If you're struggling with layouts to reduce pinky usage, I had the same issue. My layout now uses the "tap" vs "hold" on my home row keys, so that e.g. in my qwerty layout when I hold "s" it gives me "shift", hold "d" for "control", hold "f" for a layer switch to give me a numpad on my right hand, and hold "g" for meta. I mirror that in my right hand too, with the only difference being that when I hold "j" instead of a numpad I get a symbol pad on my left hand.
It takes a little getting used to and I definitely make silly typing mistakes every now but it means I hardly ever need to use my pinky fingers while typing anymore- just the odd quote or tab.
How fast do you type with that layout? I tried MT for instance and the delay just absolutely killed me.
Faster than I do with a normal keyboard, and I can keep it up, I don't start feeling like I'm killing my fingers. It's true you do have to give yourself enough time to hold the key down when you need to activate one of those modifiers, but the extra time is negligibly more than what it takes me to stretch out my pinky to hold down the traditional shift or ctrl keys. The improvement is even more for typing out numbers versus stretching for the numbers on the top of the keyboard (though I find it is still nice to have those available).
Reply
I'm a moonlander user and love it but was looking for something smaller. Thank you for your review :)
0:46 Well, if you itemize your taxes, or run your channel as a separate business...
1:44 My thoughts on RSI is the biggest thing we can do is type less. Macros to change "print(" or whatever into a single keystroke should reduce movements more than any ergonomic change probably could. What do you think? Something with a real-time / live macro recorder would help with specific variable names, etc., differently than programming standard words ahead of time.
11:02 Ben Vallack, perhaps?
The biggest thing that creates RSI are identical movements. Which is why RSI is typically created by touch typing. So the solution is either to reposition the hand so that it's in the most comfortable position and the movement is the most natural, and/or to make movements as varied and chaotic as possible.
Wait it looks like ctrl, cmd and opt keys are all missing? How do you get by with just an OS key and a layer key? It looks like a wonderful keyboard otherwise but right now I feel like the lack of extra thumb cluster and missing modifiers is a deal breaker unless I’m missing something !
Homerow mods my friend.
Ah that makes total sense@@ifcodingwerenatural
21:44 black on black i literally cannot see what you're showing here lol
Hey, I've had a look at your Voyager keyboard layout on Oryx and noticed that you dedicated you F and J keys to home row mod for shift. If you want shift on the thumb cluster you could add a hold action on where you have your return key, because how often do you need to hold return? This is what I have done anyway.
Thank you for this review! There's very little info about the Voyager and I thought I was on my own. I've been using the Planck, and like the commenter below, was also stumped at how to map the Voyager. The Oryx site only has two Voyager layouts up at this point ( maybe my search was off) so the more I hear what others are doing the more I feel comfortable with the keyboard. Looking forward to your follow-up video.
とても分かりやすくて、詳しい説明をありがとうございます。
I will never own a voyger for several reasons but I was curious. I really like your review style and can't wait for the glove 80.
This is exactly what I needed to make a decision. Thank you so much - subscribed!
You could use #00E2C0 as layer/key color to make look it white. And yeah, having the hue changed by the switches is slightly annoying.
Really enjoying the Voyager so far!!
Thank you for the video I think you’re gonna convinced a lot of us. I’m just a little bit disappointed that there is a lot of comparison with the moonlander would have been great to have more config tips and show how layers work. Really enjoyable anyway. Thanks
when configuring check out tap dance and home row mods. its super essential when using so few keys! Were you referencing ben vallack at 12:00?
quick question? where did you get those cables you're using with the voyager? not the ones that came with it, but the other ones? Thanks
Very nice. I was looking at this when trying to decide which split keyboard to buy for my first split. I just couldn't justify the price. I ended up building my own Iris from Keebio. With the metal plate option, it feels very sturdy and well built. But they're both similar in size and layout. The Voyager has two fewer keys but is also slimmer with lower profile keycaps. If I had the disposable income, I probably would have gone with the Voyager for the ease of use out of the box. Though I'm kind of glad I got the Iris with 56 keys (4 om each thumb cluster) now that I have it in hand.
I like this form factor though. Still just starting to get used to my first split board so not sure how it will work out yet, but I like it. I think if I stick with split boards and pick this up quickly, I might look at the Voyager for a travel option since I could set its layers up similar to my Iris' layers without sacrificing much. But I'd like to see 56 or 58 keys on a Mark II board. Would also like to see a board of this price ditch the TRRS cable for a USB-C one.
I have the same problem with pain in my left pinky. I tried many keyboards and ended up chanding my typing style to not use my left pinky at all. Making this change was easier than learning a new keyboard layout. Recently I started watching younger members of my team type, those who have had a laptop throughout high school (I definitely didn't) and most of them only use the first three fingers per hand to type very quickly, also they rely more on the mouse since they have been playing games all their life they have good mouse skills. Sometimes it's ok to let young ppl on your lawn.
The amount of thumb keys is what convinced me to back the Dygma Defy instead of getting a ZSA or pre-built open source design. Because of the similar MSRP I'm looking forward to compare it against your Voyager review!
My defy finally gets here tomorrow. Pretty excited.
That being said… I bought it a long time ago with the intent to game. I started eye balling this and remembered I bought the defy last week. I also don’t game nearly as much.
I wonder if using thumb keys for layers is as enjoyable in the typing experience.
I just liked thumb hot keys in my vidya
Do you think you could comfortably use it with a thumbstick, like the gmk keyboard adjacent one? Magnetically attached to the bottom or back?
I'm thinking of getting a Voyager to mount to my chair, but would want to integrate a mini joystick or touch pad to it.
Got mine today, very happy with it so far. I was surprised by the weight of it, feels very solid!
Right? Surprising how heavy it feels for its size.
How has it been for you having only two thumb keys? most complain that it should have a third one
@@juliancorredor1128 for me it's completely fine.still playing with the layout at the moment, only have 3 used at the moment.
Thank you for this fantastic video. I'd like to change to a split keyboard... But it a long journey... Last year, I purchased a keyboard with a 65% layout (Snowfox with Clicky MX). This switch was fantastic. After nearly a year, I purchased a Keychron K2 Pro (Snowfox lacks QMK), but with Tactile Brown switches and different keycaps than before, however the Tactile switches were not for me. For improved ergonomics, I am considering Voyager, Kyria Rev3, or Corne. I'm looking forward to your next Voyager movie
I swear.. I am going to build my own board soon if someone doesn't make the perfect one for me. lol. This board is almost there. The Iris that I use is pretty close too. I think most of us mechanical keyboard nuts have a variety of boards and wish we could combine a few things we like in each in to one perfect board, then have about 5 or 10 of those in backup should we ever need more. Like that perfect shoe you finally find (especially if you got big ass feet like me at size 14 to 15).. and it wears out and you go to buy another pair and they no longer make it! I bought the Lily58 Lulu version from boardsource with the aluminum frame and its fantastic. BUT.. I am an Iris fan.. been building them from rev 2 days. That said, I would love to see the thumb layout of this board (with the smaller keys being 1.5 instead of 1 size) but have two keys in the middle for the strong index finger. The problem with lily58/lulu is its 1 key and a dial (or a small key). I loved my Model 01 and got used to using the index finger (left hand) for tab and right hand for enter. But I didnt like the thumb cluster and it was a bit too big for travel use. The Iris and lily58 like this one are just small enough to take in a bag with your laptop so you have a keyboard and not use the laptop keyboard which I cant stand. So I'd say if you could build this board with those 2 buttons in the middle (even one on each side), plus case options like the iris heavy aluminum cases (Love them.. keyboard doesnt move and in a pinch they are truly a weapon if thrown).. but with these new choco low profile switches and keys.. and maybe one addition thumb key a little fruther back below the c/v key, for additional functions like F keys or arrow key layer switching, etc.. but keep the rgb LEDs this has to indicate layers, etc.. and lastly have tenting options that are not the crappy swing legs that never lock, or a specific one angle only the Iris board is, or the flimsy plastic crap the Lulu/Lily board comes with, and now you've got what could be the best board for typing/coder typing, gaming and anything else. Offer some sort of stable metal based connector of different lenghts to attach to the two borads in to a sort of single like what the Kinesis splits offer.. while ensuring tenting works for different angles.. and we're done. That's what I want! :D
Have you considered offloading some of the work to foot switches/pedals. I've actually done it a few times over the years for everything from keyboard functions to simply clicking with my mouse when dealing with RSI.
I've purchased this keyboard a month ago and I think it is an interesting keyboard indeed. I have got a written first-impression article coming on my blog soon. I detail how I configured it, especially the layers. Can I share it here newxt week?
Thanks for your review.
Envy! I am waiting for mine... in the meantime I also bought a ZipKit for the Moonlander to reduce the keys so to match the voyager and not have to adapt to the different layout. Have you considered trying something like Miryoku to significantly reduce the movement of the fingers?
I believe the Miryoku layout has three keys on the thumb cluster, so it's a little hard to port over to the Voyager. I've been drawing inspiration from it though!
@@ifcodingwerenatural that is correct and I got an idea from a contact I have with ZSA where I have shifted the keys higher up, having the third button on the lowest layer. I will test it when I get it, but if you want to give it a try I have made a layout on Oryx that I am in the process of customizing
@@ifcodingwerenatural i use Miryoku with the ferris sweep, they have a version for 34keys with combos.
I'd be curious to see how this compares to the Glove80. I can't decide between the two
I'll be getting the Glove80 in about a month, excited to do keyboard comparisons too!
idk how much configuration the keymap on your Voyager has, but for qmk, you can map a key to do one thing when hold and another when just tap. So for me I make the home row i.e. asdf to command, control, option, shift when hold, so I don't have use my pinky for those modifier keys, same thing for the right side hjkl keys and they'll just type regular letters when I tap the keys
Just got mine today. It is going to be interesting getting used to it 😅
Not sure if this will help with less pinky use on your left.
I use the base of my left pinky to press and hold CTRL. I'm not sure if the profile of the Voyager is low enough that it would impede that.
Ordered mine yesterday and I'm excited to start customizing the keys.
Also, where did you end up assigning your bracket keys?
for a cheaper alternative that still gives you an aggresive vertical finger offset, the piantor kit by beekeeb has been great. The only thing I miss from the moonlander is the firmware. I found the moonlander had way too many keys in my opinion, so I ended up just not using the top and bottom rows almost entirely. don't let the lower key count scare you, for me it's better.
Nice to have someone say the Kinesis well shape is comfortable. I have been wondering many years with it in my wishlist. I wonder if you have thought about adding one of them Elgato foot switches as another replacement for the thumb key you lost.
Dumb question, can you put full size switches since they are hot swappable?
Whats the status with your new keyboard? We cant wait your detailed review
I m waiting for my Defy, but i’m seriously visiting returning it and picking up this one because of it form factor. It will be helpful if you could answer a couple of my questions:
- Are the LEDs on this bright enough?
- what is your opinion on black vs white? I m considering white but not sure if RGB shines better through them. I prefer to color code my layered keys.
- Are these comfortable in longer coding session without a palm wrest?
- Do the keys wobble? The low profile keys on my Dygma Raise or Logitech are not very stable. How do they feel?
You cat try looking into home-row mods (with something like a one-time shift on a thumb) to reduce your RSI. It definitely takes some time adjusting to, but it feels just so much better once you've used it for a while
Homerow mods suck with Oryx. Can't adjust the timing.
@@impetuosity3381 you can change the tapping term in the configuration I think
I've been using homerow mods on the Kinesis to help reduce pinky movement. And on this keyboard, I feel like homerow mods are a must. And yes, the tapping term can be configured globally or on a per-key basis. The default timing does feel a bit sluggish to me.
@@ifcodingwerenaturalTry looking into PERMISSIVE_HOLD if you’re using qmk. It allows you to use the modifier when held if you have a key press nested inside of it e.g. k1down k2down k2up k1up where k1 is your mod tap key. That way you can type fast and consistent without thinking about timings. (Keep in mind I use something other than qmk so you might need to look into it a bit more)
I used to be annoyed by homerowmods because of those annoying timings but now I see no disadvantages to them (unless gaming ofc)
a third button on the bottom is definitely missing.
having cmd there would be great.
coming for a 75$ low profile keychron (regular, non-split keyboard though), the pricing of this at > 350$ is wild
Just curious, how long did it take for yours to ship and arrive? They say 3 weeks, but I think they said the same for my Ergodox a year ago and it was only a week. But this is a new product
Can I ask what your tenting angle was on the Moonlander? It’s weird that you get RSI using it. Also which coding actions cause you the most pain? In Oryx I set up a macro for () => amongst other things, and a symbols layer. I honestly can’t see how the Voyager would help more with RSI.
P.S. I use my own variation of Colemak. On the right it’s Colemak except I swap the Y and the O. On the left it’s basically still QWERTY except for the P, which is Colemak, and FG and RT have swapped rows.
How do you clean this?
nice video man, thanks for doing it!
Were you able to compensate with the RGB's so that you get white light despite the red switches? Perhaps tone down the red?
hi, which switches does the keyboard from the video has? looking for quite one one ... but hard to find video with comparison ... or a demo like how cloud 9 has ergo tlk sound comparison
hey, i may be too late for you to read this comment. but have you looked into the home row modifier key concept? i have been thinking about trying this as well since it reduces the need of using the pinky finger for modifier keys, especially ctrl. so, basically you use assign ASDF and JKL; modifier key functionality when holding the keys while using keeping their traditional tapping functionality as the respective keys. i think it's definitely worth trying it out in your situation.
on another note, you may also want to think about removing the number keys and shifting the whole rest one row up. this enables you to use the lowest row also via the thumb. i just stumbled upon this idea by accident while looking through public setups on the oryx configurator. this might tackle the lack of thumb keys but i'm not so sure since i don't have the keyboard at hand to try it out.
and a request to end it, can you record a video of you using the keyboard? i'm interested how the hand fits onto the keyboard since i only see images and never see how the hands and fingers actually use a keyboard.
alright, that's all. have a nice day!
@ifcodingwerenatural, Why did you choose black over white? how was your experience with a white moonlander?
Have had a white one for 2 years now the white collects dust and particles and looks really gross after a while. It gets into the porous keycaps and just becomes permanent have tried to clean it with brushes and soap still won't come out.
With 4 thumb buttons you should be able to define 16 layers. But maybe it is not practical to having to press multiple keys for a layer ?
Hi, will you test Moergo Glove80?
Nice early review.
I have been holding out on the Moonlander due to assuming we would get an MK2 at some point, but who knows... Going to need to have a good think whether the 52 keys is enough.
If they created a Moonlander Mark II with the improvements they made on the Voyager, that would be a VERY compelling keyboard.
It is. With layers, your hands will move less.
The Dygma Defy is also an option, actual customer reviews should be dropping soon. Kinda between moonlander and voyager, but 8 thumb keys.
Do you still use it or did you switch over again to the 360?
Unless this board has some sort of short circuit protections, it's generally not a good idea to unplug the TRRS cable while the USB cable is attached.
Thanks for the review. I am waiting for the wireless version to be released
What are your thoughs after a month?, I am between this one and the defy
Why is it so hard to find a split board with an F row..?
to dhtat price no wireless?
Would love to know what the default layout in oryx for this keyboard is.
configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/default/latest/0
Would have been nice to see how you mapped all keys to work with programming thats what i have a bit of trouble wrapping my head around.
I'm still trying to figure out what works too. You can check out my layout if you're curious: configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/wGj0j
Has anyone tried the Glove80 and the Voyager? How do they compare in ergonomics/comfortability?
I'm testing the Glove80 right now. Video hopefully coming in the next few days :)
Wait a moment. Are you saying @12:38 .. that you're using special keyboards because of your pinky fingers but the Moonlander didn't work out for you *because you* didn't shift the most painful keys away from your hurting fingers to less painful locations? I'm having a little of a hard time justifying blaming the keyboard there… ;)
The pinky finger revelation came later, but yeah, you're not totally wrong. However, my RSI comes back within a few minutes of typing on the Moonlander, even with homerow mods (i.e., less pinky movement).
Human hands are so weird, right? All built using the same plan, yet so very different. I hope you keep finding tech solutions to keep you going. Having to resort to surgery is rather scary and they don't give any guarantee that it will work and not get even worse.
I'm using my Moonlander with their Platform accessory set to maximum tenting. That makes it even more expensive (still much better than be out of a job, of course), but it circumvents a few of the issues you've had. The extra heft of the metal construction makes it stand very solidly, and I don't have to fiddle around with the leggy thingies. The wrist rests I took off as I'd have to bend my hand joints to reach them which to me doesn't feel healthy. Instead, I'm using custom elbow rests on my chair to have my hands hover exactly where they should (hopefully). Since we're likely to have rather different hands the experience won't translate, but maybe someone can take some level of hint away from me sharing this.
Currently - it's been only a few weeks - I'm still very optimistic. My pain isn't gone by any stretch but it has shifted to a region where it's far easier to deal with for now. Also, I'm just transitioning to (a personally tweaked version of) colemak-dh because this is my first ortholinear board and the good old Apple ABC layout doesn't work at all anymore, so my fingers are going through a ton of extra effort right now - I expect a lot of further improvement after the reconditioning of muscle memory was successful. Also also I'm not doing what I'm preaching and still use my own pinkies for Shift, time to adress that. ;)
should look into the bastardkb charybdis, like a mix of kinesis with a trackball, they now just came out with the 3x6 mini
Having gone through RSI and forever struggling with pain. I can say that you need home row mods. Specifically, timerless home row mods.
Hey! could i know what TRRS wire you are using?
Sure, it's just one that I picked up on amazon... and you just made me go down the rabbit hole of setting up an amazon affiliate account 😅: amzn.to/459Pxa0
you are soo nice! thank you!@@ifcodingwerenatural
Still liking?
I know this video is older now, but I would love to see a "programming typing test" - rather than monkey type. I'm considering this and the Kinesis, and the thing that scares me is how difficult it might be to type " { " and " } " all the time.
Can you please share your layout config? Btw 120wpm is impressive. Amy plan to move to Colemak? I had so much struggle on if this week
Look up Miryoku layout. Best layout I found for this keyboard and any small keyboard, as it focuses on home row keys and ease of access.
I'm more tempted than ever to switch to colemak with this keyboard. I've attempted a few times and can't quit commit. Layout is still a work in progress, but you can find it here: configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/wGj0j
I cannot wait your oppinion
Did your wpm go up after switching to this low-profile keyboard? I used to play faster on my regular keyboard (before the Moonlander)
@@karesztrk It's about the same, but the low profile keys are more comfy to type on so it could go up after getting more used to this keyboard. I used to be able to hit 150 WPM on my apple keyboard, but haven't been able to get those speeds since switching to a mechanical keyboard. But typing speed is a fairly low goal for me.
You can get more options for positioning with the tripod mount.
With many things more options leads to less work done. When you whittle away options productivity goes up a lot
try to use different layout. For me it was colemak dh. Just watch the videos or the documentation. The typing speed will decreased at first, but ull see how much improvement it gives. Ur fingers stay at home row most of the time. It helps me a lot
Oh this is a tough one. I was planning on getting the voyager. I'm a huge fan of the moonlander, but I do like the flat layout of the voyager. It feels too small. And your review doesn't really clear that up.
16:15 You can just assign a key to reset.
How is your RSI symptoms with the Voyager? I am a software engineer too, and I am thinking between Voyager vs. kenesis advantage 360.
If the Voyager does not make your RSI worse, then I think im gonna stick with it. I would appreciate your input, thank you in advance.
btw I like your review videos, keep it up 🔥
My RSI wasn’t an issue for me on the Voyager, I think because of home row mods. But it’s different for everyone. The greatly decreased pinky movements seemed to be the key for me.
I watched your video on the Moergo ... and then ... waited .. and waited ... and waited for it to get here with China post ;) .... but finally I got it...
I have about 5 minutes typing on it, but I think it is going to be my favourite. I am a Kinesis user for the last 10+ keys ..... so the "wanting to kill people when I have to type" phase is not something I have to enjoy going to this....
The only thing I am not feeling yet is the + and - keys, they feel a lot more further than it is on the Kinesis Advantage 2 ...
I went with the blue clicky ... whatever colour is their clicky. It is clicky and id sounds really nice. ...
Either way ... thanks for the video .... :) and yeah .. I should have ordered the double USB cable, but whatever ... my desk is a snake pit anyway, 2 more USB-C cables really do not make a difference...
PS : ever since I used a Magic keyboard and a Kinesis, I wanted a keyboard that was mechanical, clicky, tactile, but chiclet keycaps.. oh and key-well as well ... my gaming keyboard is a Logiteck TKL, blue clicky and chiclet keys, but that's the closest I came to this. When I saw this on your video I knew that I would love this.
Took about 5 minutes to figure how to flash it ... Kinesis-like profile, swapped to Mac keys, and put ESC under Z and turned CAPS into a left control ... was up and running in less than 10 minutes. Also ... good documentations AFAIK and really feature rich.
Such a shame the new Kinesis 360 all the problems, I was ready to order one, but after reading all the bad reviews I just gave up on them. I still love my Advantage 2 though. That is one great keyboard.....
Hmm ... these keys feel a bit slippery ... I wonder how they are when they break in. Do these break in ? (The Moergo keys??) ... Also .. I touch-type but still appreciate the RGB ... I am a sucker for RGB .... just one colour is fine, bit it's just cool that it's glowing ...
Cheers...
At least for me with the firmware version 3.0 are gone with the kinesis adv 360 ...
Share the layout you're using. :)
Also, that little thing in the pocket is to move the metal plaque that holds the magnetic feet inside the pocket if you so wish. It's exactly the same as the loop where it hangs.
A link to my layout is in the description :)
thank you!
You have your keyboard so close to the edge of the desk that the wings hang off/your palms are resting on the edge of the table? Could this be a contributor to your RSI problems? Every ergonomic tips video I've ever watched strong advises not to have that and have your arms resting on the desk, flush with the arms of your chair and with your shoulders in a normal position.
If you go back and rewatch that part, I specifically mention resting my palms *on* my desk. I should've clarified how much, but the wings would only hang off about an inch (2-3 cm) or so. But that's all it takes for it to be a problem. Having your keyboard too far away is also non-ergonomic, and everyone is different for what's comfortable. For me, the sweet spot meant the wings hung off a little.
What youre seeing at 4:00 is probably a 3d model, not the actual product lol. Its probably not a 1:1 replica of the real product, which is why you think you see gaps or w.e. you said.
I definitely prefer non-choc Corne keyboard (3x6 + 3 thumb keys).
I actually lowered the number of keys to 34 keys and it feels great. Using some arms meant for camera rigging and cell phone magnetic attachments, I was able to set them up completely horizontal and it is the most ergonomic experience I’ve ever had.
Well, I really don't think I was waiting for a $365.00 keyboard. Having said that, it does look amazing. So, when the price drops to $65.00, I will definitely check it out.
I don’t think it will ever drop down to that price lol, keyboards like that are all in that price range
@@F-aber The prices will drop. Remember, these keyboards all have replaceable, swappable keys. That's expensive and unnecessary - at least for me. Get rid of all that baggage and it becomes a normal keyboard with a funny shape and a couple of extra keys. The price for this type of keyboard will be about the same as all the regular ones.
@@itiswhatitis8179 there are a lot of ergo keyboards without these features, they have been at these or even higher prices for years, some models even close to a decade. When your target audience need your device to work properly you can get a way with pretty high prices
man that keyboard looks great... it is kind of expensive though... I am currently taking a look of the dilemma max... for my traveling keyboard. Nice video!
Nice, I haven't seen that keyboard before. The track pad on it looks awesome though!
Looks nice. Btw, I'm using a 34 keyboard. I code, I write in english and spanish (ñ, á, etc) and I feel pretty confortable
Respect. I don't think I could do it 😂
You remind me so much of Kevin Powell, the CSS guy.
they should've made it concave like the kinesis too, that would've made it perfect
Yeah and they should lose the top row of switches it would be perfect 👌🏻👌🏻
there is glove80 for that..
Personally I think its uglier because of the outline of it following the keys. Makes it look messy imo.
Also not a fan of only two keys for the thumb cluster. I do like how slim it is though and the low profile keys. If they used that in the Moonlander, that would be my ideal.