Oh that why you unlisted the first video. Yesterday I didn’t have the time to watch it so 2h ago with the beauty of YT history I managed to watch it even in unlisted but I didn’t find any error or things strange to force you to take it out. Anyway nice keyboard but the voyager is already my darling ^^
Dygma is a fantastic keyboard company. Amazing support. I haven’t used Defy since I got the Voyager at the same time and I love it. But this video has inspired me to give Defy a try after I put in some linear switches in them.
Thanks for review; also for pointing out that you prefer the Glove80 Ergonomics over the Voyager sound/feel as it has been something on my mind. For me personally I'd prefer an extra row of keys to a thumb cluster. Using those keys on the Glove80 or EZ is a lot easier than moving the thumb all the way inward. The Glove80 layout editor has support for per-key RGB via a custom firmware version. It's a bit finicky but I've been rocking it for weeks now. Might also be a good idea to (join and) point out that the Glove80 Discord is very active and helpfull! Compared to other vendors.
Went from the moonlander to the voyager. And honestly I want something with more keys. I don't want to reconfigure everything for everything and every layout I had now with the voyager just has some problems in one application or another. The moonlander was ok but the thumb cluster was so out of the way, that the big red button just didn't work for me. This one seems to be a good "compromise". The thumb cluster seems to be in the perfect spot. At least from just dry typing. Also for games I prefer more keys. That being said, I really don't want to buy another keyboard right now.
Hello mate! I pre-ordered a master forge keyboard (from the same guys that built the characorder) If I dislike it, would you want that I send it to you?
as a Dygma Defy owner. I can't recommend this keyboard enough. I have had 0 issues when it comes to built quality all I want for the Dygma Defy 2 is analog switches. with features like on the Wooting 60HE I think that would make the dual functions (layer, command keys and macros) and Superkeys feel more smooth and make the use of the mouse much much better with better speed control. that way you would practically not need to take you hands off the keyboard.
the Tenting kit is a must buy. the others you can take away if you are on a budget. but it feels nice having the underflow and to have the option to have Bluetooth/RF. although I mostly use it in wired mode.
@@brianfox340 yeah, also known as "Hall effect" switches. keyboards like Wooting60HE have them and some of SteelSeries as well. also razer has one that made CSGO ban them because they were considered to be cheating
I'm nervous to hear if going from a split ego to a Charachorder is worth it... i really shouldn't, but I'm tempted. I don't care about RGB, but i really can't imagine getting a split keyboard without tenting.
Not being able to add the tenting to the base model after purchase is a complete deal breaker for me. I'd like to get the Defy after saving up, then buy the tenting if I still want to keep using it after trying it out. That's a hook point for some strong buyer's remorse.
You can use the mounting holes for DiY tenting. I would personally decide with all the other factors if the Defy is most likely the best fit for you and order the built in tenting, it's one of reasons I chose the Defy. For me it was down to the Moonlander and Defy, I used the 1:1 printouts of each with layouts I had planned to help myself decide.
4:32 thanks for that. I'm on day 2 with the glove 80, after 30years on a trad. one, incl pretty effective automation. feeling like the last idiot with it, its really really tough. typing not so much but programming, with all the symbols, is killing me.
My first split keyboard was the glove80. I don't know that I would be able to buy another split keyboard without a well or a curve like the kinesis or the glove 80. If I didn't have RSI I might consider some of these other keyboards, I do like the look of this one but having that ergonomic key well it's just such a big deal. That being said I really haven't messed around with configuration, I really just have mine set up with a layer of numbers and a layer of symbols which I never use. I'll have to check out The timeless homerow mod, that looks pretty good as a introduction into using the full capabilities of this keyboard.
Is there any way this keyboard is capable of changing the volume and brightness on an apple device? If not, is there any split ergonomic keyboard you could recommend that has those function keys?
I make my living on my computer and easily spend 16 hours/day using it. I have no problems investing heavily in a quality setup. $600 is very steep for the keyboard, but once I got over the learning curve, the value is off the charts.
I have a first-batch Defy. One of the magnets positioning the palm rest came loose inside the keyboard. I was able to fix it myself and provide feedback (well received) in the Discord. I also had challenges with some details on an earlier version of Bazecor, the config software. Dygma helped me understand my misunderstanding and accepted a critique and suggestion to improve the software. Dygma has been HIGHLY transparent and communicative starting with the original funding all the way through production to the present day.
Love the intro 😆 Thank you for the amazing work and effort you put in those videos. I'm deep in the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole, and I'm itching to get a new keyboard even if I absolutely don't need a new one and your reviews are extremely helpful.
Dygma's support is top notch. I have had some issues with my Defy. But was usually resolved with any new updates from Dygma. Early on I had 1 issue which required a firmware reflash, Dygma team was VERY helpful in providing me the tools and instructions to get things working again. I also maybe biased as I have been a backer from the beginning with Raise 1. And they were gracious enough to interview me for feedback which they added my interview to a recent video they did. Great Video!
I love my dactyl Manuform, but the charachorder keyboards make me very curious. I may have gotten that instead if I knew they existed when I built my Manuform. But I'm not relearning to type again.
I have and love the defy, but I also live in the EU, meaning that for me the price tag is not that crazy because I would have to pay 23% extra and a carrier fee for handling customs if I would buy any of the others, so basically a voyager for 365 USD turns into a 500 USD voyager, where as in the defy that doesn't happen because the shipments are DDP for the EU, and if you remove the underglow the price stays at 539 and I have more thumb keys, better tenting, a nice palm rest, RFI and Bluetooth connectivity, for 39 USD more. Now to the other issues, yeah, they need to work on their software, I know they are on it, but missing some basic feature may be a deal breaker for some, specially when the price difference isn't 39USD for them
How long would you suggest it might take someone to adapt to the Defy or something like the Voyager... as a touch typist at 80 WPM? I love the idea of the Defy and LOVE Dygma as a company. However, I'm more considering the Voyager due to the footprint. I think I would love a version of the Defy built with low profile switches like the Voyager and without palm rests.
11:45 - 13:35 I'm not trying to sound like a nit-picky jerk, but it does somewhat feel like you're contradicting yourself here. A complaint of pricing with the tenting add-on but then later saying that it's "the best implementation of tilting" you've seen? Additionally, you say that if someone wanted tilting the same way the Defy offers, they would have to spend more than the price of the tilting add-on and use a mounting bracket. Keep in mind the prices of the keyboards are all fairly similar if not the same with the Defy being better than Glove80 and the Kinesis, yet the DIY option is more costly and not as good as the Defy. It's unfair criticism because the Defy beats its peers and does it at what ends up being a better investment. I completely agree with the other points in the video, especially regarding the software and firmware but this part seemed...unfair.
Hey, great video! I've been diagnosed with tenosynovitis, affecting the web space between my thumb and index finger. Do you know of any ergonomic split keyboards that minimize thumb stretching? I'm looking for something that will make typing more comfortable and less painful :( Thanks
I am considering buying one (I am still deliberating between the Dygma Defy and Glove80), but I just noticed you have a sponsor link for DD. Is there a limited validity on it? As in, do I need to make a decision on the keyboard when using that link within X time to make you earn your commission? (Might help me push my decision if there is money for you in it.) (Or is this something you can't/don't want to share?)
I am trying to decide between the voyager and the glove. I get rsi but I have small hands and the voyager appeals for that reason. I will mount mine using arms where I can move it however I like. Interested in why you dont focus on your mouse? I have a small mouse pad arriving today and considering a tiny/mini mouse like ploopy but also looking at keyboards that have a tiny trackpad and also trackball by the B/N keys which might be helpful in addition to a mouse pad like the lily58. Would be interested in your thoughts thanks!
I love my Defy. Luckily I ordered mine when they had the other colors so I have my dream purtpl KB, lol. I have not had any physical quality issues with mine. I do have rare occasions that the things will freak out and everything starts flashing but I just unplug the nueron for 10 seconds and plug it back in and all is well. Starting this journey, I was not the greatest typer, so I probably finger fumble it to that point lol. Learning to touch type with the ortholinear layout has been so much easier than when I tried on a staggard KB. I can't say much for the wireless as I don't go anywhere with the Defy so I just use it wired. I took all the options regardless if I needed them just to cover bases as I knew this would be a long time investment so wanted to future proof for any changes that could happen 🤷♀. I love my Defy and it's pretty easy to use with my smaller hands. I pretty much don't use the top row as it's too much of a stretch, but that is the beauty of layers. This whole experience with the Defy has been a journey for this old dragon trying to learn new tricks, but it has been an awesome with the Defy 😍
I have the wired with tenting, no underglow, my keyboard is from the first batch and has no physical issues. I do graphics work in the dark so didn't want the distraction of underglow. I use per key RGB for layer identification. I had to wait a bit for an update to have the LED's turn off after a set period of time and I think I had an issue with the superkeys that was fixed about the same time. I haven't yet used home row mods, but do plan to. They are aware things like home row mods need work so I'm waiting for that and combo keys. I use a bunch of superkeys in all my layouts and they have been working well even though they are a work in progress.
Love, love, love my defy. And support is top notch. I may or may not have destroyed the PCB on the right half of my defy (don't ask!), and they sent me a new one at no cost. The battery life isn't as great as it could be in wireless mode, but being able to disconnect everything, throw it in the case and in my backpack, and take it to work is incredibly convenient, and the battery lasts all day at work, so it's just perfect for me.
I had one pre-ordered, but the target shipping date kept getting moved forward to the point where it was 6 months behind. This is where I lost faith in them and cancelled the order. To their credit, I did get my money back. I think that if all of the problems are resolved, I would consider ordering one again.
the dygma defy is my 1st split keybaord and it feels great! The learning curve was pretty easy. I did have an isseu with a faulty inner board, but Dygma just send me a new one. In general their support team is quikc in replies and ppl help each other on discord as well. I use the underglow to know which layer i am currently in. Key rgb is used to highlight different setups in various layers which helps a lot too. I am mostly strugeling with the fact that due to tenting my hand placement is now higher compared to the mouse and this causes some isseus when gaming as it hurts my shoulder. As long as i am not gaming all is good.
I have 2 Defys. Wireless for travel and a wired one at home. I find the software and experience is better on the wired key board. Both have the Gateron Yellow keys.
I haven't paid more than $100 for a keyboard my entire life. I thought I might upgrade after 15 years of PC gaming. Then I saw the $600 price tag. You. Have. To. Be. Fucking. Joking.
what about you give an honest? If a $600 keyboard has faulty software, it's NOT a good buy, period. Why you keep dancing around the its too obvious to ignore. You are not really good at doing reviews, just say it as its, stop walking on egg shells.
For the sake of preserving comments, here’s a link to the original upload: ua-cam.com/video/mfSLSlVguJc/v-deo.htmlsi=T2b7d-EdoSx9PPKm
Oh that why you unlisted the first video. Yesterday I didn’t have the time to watch it so 2h ago with the beauty of YT history I managed to watch it even in unlisted but I didn’t find any error or things strange to force you to take it out.
Anyway nice keyboard but the voyager is already my darling ^^
Dygma is a fantastic keyboard company. Amazing support.
I haven’t used Defy since I got the Voyager at the same time and I love it. But this video has inspired me to give Defy a try after I put in some linear switches in them.
Truly your keyboard reviews are second to none. You are a master of your craft,
Thanks for review; also for pointing out that you prefer the Glove80 Ergonomics over the Voyager sound/feel as it has been something on my mind.
For me personally I'd prefer an extra row of keys to a thumb cluster. Using those keys on the Glove80 or EZ is a lot easier than moving the thumb all the way inward.
The Glove80 layout editor has support for per-key RGB via a custom firmware version. It's a bit finicky but I've been rocking it for weeks now. Might also be a good idea to (join and) point out that the Glove80 Discord is very active and helpfull! Compared to other vendors.
Went from the moonlander to the voyager. And honestly I want something with more keys. I don't want to reconfigure everything for everything and every layout I had now with the voyager just has some problems in one application or another. The moonlander was ok but the thumb cluster was so out of the way, that the big red button just didn't work for me. This one seems to be a good "compromise". The thumb cluster seems to be in the perfect spot. At least from just dry typing. Also for games I prefer more keys. That being said, I really don't want to buy another keyboard right now.
Hello mate!
I pre-ordered a master forge keyboard (from the same guys that built the characorder)
If I dislike it, would you want that I send it to you?
I ordered one too and hopefully receiving one in the first batch they ship out!
@@ifcodingwerenatural glad to hear !
In which country are you shipping it to?
I'm in France and doubt it will come on time
as a Dygma Defy owner. I can't recommend this keyboard enough.
I have had 0 issues when it comes to built quality
all I want for the Dygma Defy 2 is analog switches. with features like on the Wooting 60HE
I think that would make the dual functions (layer, command keys and macros) and Superkeys feel more smooth
and make the use of the mouse much much better with better speed control. that way you would practically not need to take you hands off the keyboard.
the Tenting kit is a must buy.
the others you can take away if you are on a budget. but it feels nice having the underflow and to have the option to have Bluetooth/RF. although I mostly use it in wired mode.
...Analog key switches? Why did you have to let me know that exists? Now I have to go down that rabbit hole 😅
@@brianfox340 yeah, also known as "Hall effect" switches.
keyboards like Wooting60HE have them and some of SteelSeries as well. also razer has one that made CSGO ban them because they were considered to be cheating
I'm nervous to hear if going from a split ego to a Charachorder is worth it... i really shouldn't, but I'm tempted.
I don't care about RGB, but i really can't imagine getting a split keyboard without tenting.
Not being able to add the tenting to the base model after purchase is a complete deal breaker for me. I'd like to get the Defy after saving up, then buy the tenting if I still want to keep using it after trying it out. That's a hook point for some strong buyer's remorse.
You can use the mounting holes for DiY tenting. I would personally decide with all the other factors if the Defy is most likely the best fit for you and order the built in tenting, it's one of reasons I chose the Defy. For me it was down to the Moonlander and Defy, I used the 1:1 printouts of each with layouts I had planned to help myself decide.
You should try the Ugreen magnetic phone holder for tenting the Voyager. Its very stable and allows you to have higher tenting angles that you like.
4:32 thanks for that. I'm on day 2 with the glove 80, after 30years on a trad. one, incl pretty effective automation. feeling like the last idiot with it, its really really tough. typing not so much but programming, with all the symbols, is killing me.
Could you please review the UHK 60 v2 next? I've seen a lot of reviews of it, but no one compare it with its competition.
My first split keyboard was the glove80. I don't know that I would be able to buy another split keyboard without a well or a curve like the kinesis or the glove 80. If I didn't have RSI I might consider some of these other keyboards, I do like the look of this one but having that ergonomic key well it's just such a big deal. That being said I really haven't messed around with configuration, I really just have mine set up with a layer of numbers and a layer of symbols which I never use. I'll have to check out The timeless homerow mod, that looks pretty good as a introduction into using the full capabilities of this keyboard.
Is there any way this keyboard is capable of changing the volume and brightness on an apple device? If not, is there any split ergonomic keyboard you could recommend that has those function keys?
Yes, it supports media and consumer controls. Pretty much any programmable keyboard you can build or buy will have this functionality.
Looks pretty sweet
Something something something glove80 something qmk something engagement
0:33 hahaha so random why am i laughing so hard
Algorithm
I make my living on my computer and easily spend 16 hours/day using it. I have no problems investing heavily in a quality setup. $600 is very steep for the keyboard, but once I got over the learning curve, the value is off the charts.
Rewatch boost! Went with the Glove80, but this would have been my non-concave well option.
I have a first-batch Defy. One of the magnets positioning the palm rest came loose inside the keyboard. I was able to fix it myself and provide feedback (well received) in the Discord. I also had challenges with some details on an earlier version of Bazecor, the config software. Dygma helped me understand my misunderstanding and accepted a critique and suggestion to improve the software. Dygma has been HIGHLY transparent and communicative starting with the original funding all the way through production to the present day.
Love the intro 😆
Thank you for the amazing work and effort you put in those videos. I'm deep in the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole, and I'm itching to get a new keyboard even if I absolutely don't need a new one and your reviews are extremely helpful.
Dygma's support is top notch. I have had some issues with my Defy. But was usually resolved with any new updates from Dygma. Early on I had 1 issue which required a firmware reflash, Dygma team was VERY helpful in providing me the tools and instructions to get things working again. I also maybe biased as I have been a backer from the beginning with Raise 1. And they were gracious enough to interview me for feedback which they added my interview to a recent video they did. Great Video!
That Master Forge keyboard you mentioned briefly looks like a winner. Can't wait to see the review on that one.
I love my dactyl Manuform, but the charachorder keyboards make me very curious. I may have gotten that instead if I knew they existed when I built my Manuform. But I'm not relearning to type again.
I have and love the defy, but I also live in the EU, meaning that for me the price tag is not that crazy because I would have to pay 23% extra and a carrier fee for handling customs if I would buy any of the others, so basically a voyager for 365 USD turns into a 500 USD voyager, where as in the defy that doesn't happen because the shipments are DDP for the EU, and if you remove the underglow the price stays at 539 and I have more thumb keys, better tenting, a nice palm rest, RFI and Bluetooth connectivity, for 39 USD more.
Now to the other issues, yeah, they need to work on their software, I know they are on it, but missing some basic feature may be a deal breaker for some, specially when the price difference isn't 39USD for them
Thanks so much for the audio update
It looks good except the thumb keys all seem like they have you folding your thumbs way under your hands and that seems really painful
“Don’t tell my wife” lol 😂
How long would you suggest it might take someone to adapt to the Defy or something like the Voyager... as a touch typist at 80 WPM?
I love the idea of the Defy and LOVE Dygma as a company. However, I'm more considering the Voyager due to the footprint. I think I would love a version of the Defy built with low profile switches like the Voyager and without palm rests.
For any split keyboard with a thumb cluster, I think most people can expect a transition period of 2-3 weeks. One week for the extremely dedicated.
11:45 - 13:35 I'm not trying to sound like a nit-picky jerk, but it does somewhat feel like you're contradicting yourself here. A complaint of pricing with the tenting add-on but then later saying that it's "the best implementation of tilting" you've seen? Additionally, you say that if someone wanted tilting the same way the Defy offers, they would have to spend more than the price of the tilting add-on and use a mounting bracket. Keep in mind the prices of the keyboards are all fairly similar if not the same with the Defy being better than Glove80 and the Kinesis, yet the DIY option is more costly and not as good as the Defy. It's unfair criticism because the Defy beats its peers and does it at what ends up being a better investment. I completely agree with the other points in the video, especially regarding the software and firmware but this part seemed...unfair.
Hey, great video! I've been diagnosed with tenosynovitis, affecting the web space between my thumb and index finger. Do you know of any ergonomic split keyboards that minimize thumb stretching? I'm looking for something that will make typing more comfortable and less painful :( Thanks
I am considering buying one (I am still deliberating between the Dygma Defy and Glove80), but I just noticed you have a sponsor link for DD. Is there a limited validity on it? As in, do I need to make a decision on the keyboard when using that link within X time to make you earn your commission? (Might help me push my decision if there is money for you in it.) (Or is this something you can't/don't want to share?)
I am trying to decide between the voyager and the glove. I get rsi but I have small hands and the voyager appeals for that reason. I will mount mine using arms where I can move it however I like. Interested in why you dont focus on your mouse? I have a small mouse pad arriving today and considering a tiny/mini mouse like ploopy but also looking at keyboards that have a tiny trackpad and also trackball by the B/N keys which might be helpful in addition to a mouse pad like the lily58. Would be interested in your thoughts thanks!
I love my Defy. Luckily I ordered mine when they had the other colors so I have my dream purtpl KB, lol. I have not had any physical quality issues with mine. I do have rare occasions that the things will freak out and everything starts flashing but I just unplug the nueron for 10 seconds and plug it back in and all is well. Starting this journey, I was not the greatest typer, so I probably finger fumble it to that point lol. Learning to touch type with the ortholinear layout has been so much easier than when I tried on a staggard KB. I can't say much for the wireless as I don't go anywhere with the Defy so I just use it wired. I took all the options regardless if I needed them just to cover bases as I knew this would be a long time investment so wanted to future proof for any changes that could happen 🤷♀. I love my Defy and it's pretty easy to use with my smaller hands. I pretty much don't use the top row as it's too much of a stretch, but that is the beauty of layers. This whole experience with the Defy has been a journey for this old dragon trying to learn new tricks, but it has been an awesome with the Defy 😍
I have the wired with tenting, no underglow, my keyboard is from the first batch and has no physical issues. I do graphics work in the dark so didn't want the distraction of underglow. I use per key RGB for layer identification. I had to wait a bit for an update to have the LED's turn off after a set period of time and I think I had an issue with the superkeys that was fixed about the same time. I haven't yet used home row mods, but do plan to. They are aware things like home row mods need work so I'm waiting for that and combo keys. I use a bunch of superkeys in all my layouts and they have been working well even though they are a work in progress.
Love, love, love my defy. And support is top notch. I may or may not have destroyed the PCB on the right half of my defy (don't ask!), and they sent me a new one at no cost. The battery life isn't as great as it could be in wireless mode, but being able to disconnect everything, throw it in the case and in my backpack, and take it to work is incredibly convenient, and the battery lasts all day at work, so it's just perfect for me.
I had one pre-ordered, but the target shipping date kept getting moved forward to the point where it was 6 months behind. This is where I lost faith in them and cancelled the order. To their credit, I did get my money back.
I think that if all of the problems are resolved, I would consider ordering one again.
the dygma defy is my 1st split keybaord and it feels great! The learning curve was pretty easy. I did have an isseu with a faulty inner board, but Dygma just send me a new one. In general their support team is quikc in replies and ppl help each other on discord as well. I use the underglow to know which layer i am currently in. Key rgb is used to highlight different setups in various layers which helps a lot too. I am mostly strugeling with the fact that due to tenting my hand placement is now higher compared to the mouse and this causes some isseus when gaming as it hurts my shoulder. As long as i am not gaming all is good.
I have 2 Defys. Wireless for travel and a wired one at home. I find the software and experience is better on the wired key board.
Both have the Gateron Yellow keys.
I really want one of these style of keyboards, but man are they cost prohibitive. Perhaps one day I can break out of my Keychron shell lol
I had problems with the thumbcluster low profile keycaps breaking multiple times and got replacemant in at most 7 days later every time.
Engagement boost 🫶
I appreciate it 😂
What did you think about the superkeys?
I think it could fix your issue with homerow mods.
that thumb cluster looks cursed.
Dygma? What's dygma
0:40 looooool
Quick question: How comfortable it is to reach the second row of the thumb cluster?
20:40
I haven't paid more than $100 for a keyboard my entire life. I thought I might upgrade after 15 years of PC gaming. Then I saw the $600 price tag.
You. Have. To. Be. Fucking. Joking.
what about you give an honest? If a $600 keyboard has faulty software, it's NOT a good buy, period. Why you keep dancing around the its too obvious to ignore. You are not really good at doing reviews, just say it as its, stop walking on egg shells.