The only reason why I uploaded this was because I make my own "cinema sins" videos on Viv's content. This was supposed to be a funny inside joke for my subscribers, not a video that appeared in a bunch of peoples' feeds who don't know the context. Edit 6/23/22: Good lord, is this video RE-appearing in peoples' feeds without context? Because this was uploaded almost seven months ago and has nothing to do with the current drama, just fyi.
Don't watch you, but watch similar things, so I do know the context. I get it, it's funny, and I know what she's talking about. Most channels like yours that I watch (like molinimus) are usually playful and still generally like the content they watch, but for anyone who does it just for negativity sake, that's just stupid
There are shows and movies I like that I will also acknowledge have their issues. It could be some poor writing, plot holes, poorly aged scenes, bad acting or annoying songs. I will still enjoy watching them in the moment but when a scene shows up with that glaring error I won't pretend it's not faulty. Neither will I pretend that a show created or co-created with a person who turned out to be an absolute scumbag/ nightmare behind the scenes and after the show ended wasn't an absolute scumbag/ nightmare- I like Ren and Stimpy, loved it as a kid, still do, Adult Party Cartoon was a fucking mess (with like 2 scenes that were okay and one reasonable-ish ep but even that's debatable) but John Kricfalusi was and still is an abuser and creep. The other workers on the show did a great job but suffered for it. Maybe the reboot will be crap- probably but at least he's not abusing anyone else on it. Watching something you KNOW you will hate just to pick on it even knowing that like the overall genre isn't for you because you were never interested in it is just wasted time and effort IMO. Go do something more productive rather than get mad at some Sci-Fi show you hate because 'It's got stupid fucking aliens and spaceships in it and it's for NEEERDS!' Why are you watching a sci-fi show if you HATE sci-fi? It's like me getting mad and ragging on a torture-fest horror movie knowing I hate torture-fest horror. What the fuck did you expect? A fucking romance film to come out of nowhere? A dumb action movie to get shat out mid-way, a bait and switch? I like Helluva Boss. The writing has improved but there are still some issues here and there. That's fine. I still watch it, enjoy it and don't go on long nitpicky rants about the most miniscule 'issue' it has. I do think sometimes the swearing can get a bit much but it's not utterly overshadowing the cartoon as a whole. I just think it's kind of like the belching in Rick and Morty. Initially started damn near constant but gradually eased over time. For some characters it makes sense, Mammon for example is an abusive dickbag who from the sounds of it is casually abusive to his fans but they're so thrilled by his presence and fanboying of him that they are too blind to notice it or are so desperate for his attention that they'd welcome his abuse just because it's some form of interaction from him directly TO them- 'HEY HE JUST SAID I'M A WORTHLESS SHIT WHO'S ONLY GOOD FOR THEIR MONEY! HE NOTICED MEE!!!' I'm rambling- TL:DR Quit getting mad at daft cartoons or seeking things to get mad at, be productive, it's okay to like imperfect things because nothing in life is perfect just so long as you recognise the issues that it has.
I have so many movies and shows that are "bad" that I love! My main example is the Percy Jackson movie. As a movie, it's not great, and as an adaptation, it's terrible. But I still love it, even when pointing out things that don't make sense or could have turned out better.
Literally everyone says this? If all you're doing is bitching about something you claim to love you're not a fan and you're just being toxic. Cut that media out for your own sake if it makes you that negative
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 Maybe they "claim" to love it because they actually love it lolol. I "complain" about the media I enjoy all the time but I still love it. I would be damned if somebody told me I dont actually love the series I personally spent 2k on, in order to support the creator(s), just because I love complaining about it. you would be surprised to know some people actually ENJOY picking at the things they like.
I get her frustration, seeing as most Cinema Sins clones do mostly nerdy nick-picking. Very few, including yourself however, seem to point out actual flaws that could actually hurt the series moving forward. It just so happens that the bad outweighs the good critiques.
But Cinema Sins often like what they make fun of. The do it for fun, to make jokes. Given how high some of those sin counts are at the end, you can see how they don't take the sin count seriously.
That's specifically why I like to watch Th3Birdman since he takes the time to correct Jeremy from Cinemasins' "criticisms".Also, as far as RandomGameCritic is concerned, he seems to actually care about Helluva Boss.
No, it’s obvious she doesn’t like it plus it’s always best to tell the creator permission before straight up doing it without them knowing that they don’t like it.
She has a big point. Sometimes you can't enjoy something because people will point out every single flaw with whatever you like and make you feel bad for enjoying things
Funny, personally I will enjoy them even more out of pure spite. For example, Mineta from MHA used to just a funny side character that I enjoy, but people keep shitting on him, so now he’s my favorite character in the entire series.
That's just not true for some people, there's tons of things I consume and enjoy that get pooped on regularly and I'm still consuming and enjoying those things and will continue to consume and enjoy them until I get tired of them or die.
@@InnerAtanihit depends. I love cringe stuff and 'so bad it's good' shows/movies. but a lot of people don't do that, they watch things that are clearly making them consistently very mad.
She has a point, a lot of folks watch content just to be bitter and hate on it instead of watching something they actually like. I think Viv used the wrong example here since Cinemasins normally nitpicks on purpose for comedic value. Personally, I believe you're one of the few people that criticizes Vivziepop's work that actually legitimately wants the show to improve and be the best that it can possibly be. I say this mainly due to the fact that a lot of other videos/channels that criticize Viv's work don't actually give substantial points on why they don't like the show and instead resort to just saying the show is bad....and that's it.. which in turn doesn't give the creators the feedback to improve. Keep on doing what you're doing man, you're a great reviewer and the whole Cinemasinsy aspect of it makes it a lot more enjoyable. Also, sorry for the Bible sized paragraph, I like to ramble a lot 😅
Honestly one of the best (from what I recall) first critiques of Viv's work such as Hazbin Hotel was by SolarSands. Though now I have no idea where that video went to. He brought up a lot of good points criticizing certain visual and audio aspects while appreciating the quality of some parts.
@@user-cp1lj3bn3b I agree! He did a good job of pointing out what the show did well and what it didn’t. He was one of the few people to point out some glaring issues that most negative reviews somehow missed (I guess because they were too focused on bashing on the comedic style or plot), which was that it was very hard to distinguish the characters from the background with how similarly colored they were and a few wonky composition shots. I think he also had a solid point about the character designs being a little too busy? But overall he did a great job balancing the good with the bad in a constructive and respectful manner, unlike some other reviews **cough** PKRussl **cough**
As someone who keeps up with the show through Tumblr - I get what she's trying to say: Cinemasins has cultivated a culture where it nitpicks stuff just to nitpick under the guise of satire (which, ironically, it cultivated by the "oh, just pointing out inconsistencies doesn't garner enough views" mindset) but in its influence the ripoffs come off as really whiny because they, like the original, missed the point of why they were created and morphed into a whole other thing. However, you've changed. You don't like the show, but now instead of being immature - you ate your crow and acknowledged when it was good - that speech was something I didn't see coming, and I subscribed to you because of it. She must have said this in response to the nitpicky side, and...yeah, I agree as a burgeoning writer that she needs to improve but they're not helping anymore. They're nitpicking shit they don't like. I ended up unsubscribing to Cinemasins for this exact reason, and now watch stuff like The Birdman and CinemaWins, who don't fawn over the movies, but are a more positive spin on the Cinemasins "culture."
I think cinema sins ripoffs are more liable to this than actual cinema sins they rerelease mean there criticism and often joke about not being able to resist the urge to sin. Like it’s literally a parody of obnoxious reviewers. And I find cinema sins really funny because they are joking and a lot of the movies they review Arnt bad
@@choesta They keep saying it is - but then their recent sins are like, observations of what's happening on screen or his weird fantasies ("Emma Watson isn't giving me a boner right now.") - which might have originally worked as a pastiché of That Nerd You'd Never Invite To Movies until the algorithm forced them to make longer videos, and thus totally make up sins as a result and overuse those "gags."
I think there's a difference between satirical nitpicking (that might not be the right word for it but whatever) and genuinely being critical of every little flaw a show has for no reason other than you want to hate on it
The thing is, to a creator both of these things are equally obnoxious and insulting to their hard work. Even a "joking nitpick" or "satirical" joke at their expense that's made by some nobody trying to capitalize on the hate from their work feels awful and frustrating regardless, because joke or not, people will unironically agree with them
except her fans can’t tell the difference and treat any kind of criticism like a personal attack. It's the main reason I stopped watching her, because it's impossible to discuss her work if it's not done as part of the positivity circlejerk
I honestly don't consider myself a fan of her stuff but I respect this take so much. I totally agree that people go out of their way to consume content they HATE just to feel bitter about it. Negativity is overrated.
except she then has constant meltdowns on twitter about her "haters" for pointing out legitimate flaws in her show and her characters. It's been 2 seasons and she still hasn't done anything with millie but just said "nuh uh" in the form of a multiple tweet tantrum
@@YodaOnABenderI think it’s mainly about emotional maturity which she doesn’t really seem to have, but that doesn’t make me see her as a villain. I just wish she took a break off of twitter
@@flufflecake9232 Agreed, she has flaws just like everyone else. Also, her not being able to handle critics could be because *SO MANY* people like to hate on it, 1, she could maybe not differentiate constructive criticism and plan hate anymore, or because there's been souch hate, she doesn't even want any form of criticism at all. I too agree she just needs to delete Twitter. The negativity from it and the pressure to keep *2 SHOWS* afloat must really get to her... I feel sorry for her :(
@@YodaOnABenderknow this is 7 months old now but im just seeing this now 😅 I totally agree, 2 seasons and still no millie episode? kinda sad man, but again, it was confirmed that helluva boss will have at least 4 season so i hope by then we can at least get ONE episode where they make millie the main character 🤦♀️ to keep in mind that helluva boss ain't all vivzie's work, we also have the writers so blame so honestly i really don't shame her too much for the "millie problem".
Idk sometimes hate watching things can be a healthy outlet. but you have to be careful not to take it too far and know when to quit when things get out of hand.
Holy CRAP, this thing blew up so much that it passed up my "Ozzie's" video in a single day! And there also seems to be a lot of confusion in the comments section, so let me clarify: First of all, I wasn't trying to make any sort of statement by posting this. I literally just did it because I thought it would be funny. Second, this clip was taken from a stream that aired LONG before I started making my sins videos. Viv definitely wasn't talking about me in this clip. And third, I don't consider myself to be the kind of person that falls under Viv's description in this clip. I genuinely like her content and 98% of my sins aren't even sins anymore. They're just jokes. Edit 11/28/2021 Okay so the algorithm gods have apparently decided to put this video in peoples' feeds even though this video was literally something that I posted JUST for my subscribers, because it's a pretty funny clip if you know the context. ...And the context is kinda important. So, to all of the people that found this video and aren't in on the joke: Sorry about that. Blame UA-cam.
How about we don’t at all, cause it just looks like your putting random shit in videos, getting content out of others videos just by seeing mistakes that don’t matter, instead of enjoying it you make stupid fast talking or whatever the fuck in videos, like come on, it’s obvious she doesn’t like it. 🤦♀️
@@evanorsomeoneelse127 it’s a joke :’) I don’t even watch this dude and got this on my recommendations but chill out it’s just a joke, people make jokes out of other people’s contents, and depending on the jokes that becomes their own content because theyre taking the original and adding things onto it! wowie, surprise surprise!
@@minced_man Is it tho? People are so corny nitpicking that show. I haven’t watched any of the videos but I did see one clip of people making fun of it. It seems like people just dragging it on and on.
@@VintageToilet The animators were so lazy they used a STOCK IMAGE LITERALLY FROM GOOGLE IMAGES RATHER THAN DRAWING A FUCKING LIGHT POST. So I can say yeah it's that bad.
@@minced_man I guess, but UA-cam kept recommending me those videos and they were filled with so much negativity that I had to keep myself away from the drama. At first they were funny, then they got malicious and exhausting. They were all from the same channel, like, if you wanna criticize something do it on a couple of videos and offer a way to improve it or therefore you aren't offering a critique. A lot of the viewers didn't even watch the show, they were just jumping on the hate train. And I know this because I never watched either. No idea why UA-cam was recommending them to me. And I'm not even interested in that show, but they give Kiwifarms vibes and my mind was like.... *nope* Not saying not liking something is bad, but when you invest your entire time on watching something that makes you mad and hateful when you could... do something positive or useful... I don't get it
Viv: I hate the cinema sinsy culture RandomGameCritic: Huh I wonder who that’s for Ps thanks for all the support this is possibly the most popular thing I’ll ever make
What's wrong with sin videos? Like Tf is she saying? I get it If you watch a series and you only watch it to nitpick or hate it and tell other people not to watch it. But when you literally have a channel that does that for the sake of a joke and content I don't get it.Like they aren't telling anyone the series is bad so what's wrong? It seems like she's just sensitive to critism.
The internet needs to understand that liking something ironically is still deep down just liking it. I like respectfully enjoying terrible media. Stuff like The Room makes me laugh because of how bad it is, but that doesn’t mean I’m a dick to its creator. In fact I thank them for all the laughs and good times they’ve brought me. When someone brings me that good juicy cringe I wanna shake their hand and tell them I’m their biggest fan, even if I’m enjoying their work on a level they didn’t intend.
Totally! For me, I absolutely adore Civil War era and historical romance novels. Are they garbage? Yes, they just about always feature racism, sexism, etc, and they're often poorly plotted and horribly written. HOWEVER, I acknowledge that they're problematic while I enjoy the media. (I also don't contribute financially and use stuff like the Internet Archive to read it for free.)
The creator of Helluva Boss: "You can like something and still be critical of it" The helluva boss fandom when you give any kind of valid criticism: *"iF yOu dOn'T liKe iT tHeN lEaVe!!!"*
@@RandomGameCritic viv: “noooooe! You can’t point out how underdeveloped Millie is after me having 2 seasons and failing to give her a single episode!”
@@santiaguo21 she deflect nearly all criticism, constructive or not about her show, fans trying to help her are getting pressured into deleting there tweets and some videos poking fun at her work.
Problem is, she considers most criticism leveled at her work as nitpicking, even when people point out major flaws in the writing, world building, pacing, design elements, etc.
Can you give an example? I've definitely seen her address unwarranted hate (which imo, she would do best to just ignore bc it just makes her look sensitive), but when has she got mad about good/constructive criticism?
I think she means if you don't like watching something but keep watching it just to hate it. It's less about actually criticism and more like you just go into something to just look for mistakes instead of just watching it cuz you enjoy watching it.
I mean yeah, you should only cinemasins a piece of media you actually enjoy. If you clearly hate it and are pointing to every minor flaw. That’s just being a bad critic. But when you really like the content and point to every minor flaw, that’s more like showing appreciation
@@frimi8593 yeah I get you, pointing out flaws in a work cuz you enjoy it and want it to do better is good. BUT If you point out just the bad stuff and barely the good stuff it can come off as hateful and nitpicky. I get discribing what you like in a peice can be difficult, sometimes you don't even know why you like it. You just do. You don't have to say everything you like about a work, it's just the thing that comes with being critical. Also maybe Viv just don't want harsh critic on the crew's work. She SHOULD, but Talking about a piece of paper not having writing on it properly seems a bit overboard to her.
But what if I hated watch something to review it, and look for the mistakes to judge it accurately. Like what is wrong with looking for the flaws/mistakes?
@@G.N.F462 If you want to critics things you don't like, fine. I don't care. But please recognise not everyone will not have the mentally to do that, it's straining Being negative all the time. and for some artists wanting to improve in story telling, picking apart the worst examples will not always help them improve. Also some people just wanna watch stuff cuz they like it no matter if it's trash or not. God the fact ya'll keep going back to "Why is critiquing bad things bad?" just proves the negative mindset you place yourself in. It's not about critics, it's about how much joy you derived from a work and liking it dispite it's flaws. God go and watch something you actually like then something you hate but like to critics and see how much joy you derived from the two.
@@G.N.F462 it’s not a matter of looking for broader mistakes like if a work has poor writing or something. That’s not what “cinemasins-ing” is. What were referring to is basically combing through every frame to find little inconsistencies, animation errors, kinda weird dialogue, etc. instead of examining the movie as a whole
While I believe cinema sins is and creators who series like it are genuinely just joking around, I get what she's saying and totally agree. Nowadays people are so overly critical of media and art
yea basically cinema sins is the one that made this satire critic culture (no, i dont think they made it entirely, but they made it Big the first place) its alll fun n games till someone actually does the most petiest nitpick project on some 4 second lipsync that was a lil off course and nearly missed by idk everyyonne in a goddamn 30 minute video?
People took Nostalgia Critic, CinemaSins and other "angry youtube reviewers" WAY too seriously during their peak. Combine that with the stereotypical nerdy superiority complex (because everyone on the Internet suddenly seems to think they're a genius) and you get some very hostile critics.
@@danielavanilla4331 I kinda think it's both? And ironically the most sensitive people also seem to be the most antagonistic when it comes to other artists' work.
As someone who has a bad habit of nick-picking [despite acknowledging that such small things shouldn't be that worrisome], I can agree to this. It's one thing if there is the slightest out-of-place detail in one's work, no one's perfect, but also not terrible; but to choose those particularly small details as much as an out-of-place color on a character and believe it's what would indefinitely make their work fail is asinine (not sure if that's a proper word for how I'm going with this). Also gotta consider the behind the scenes stuff in terms of how they work and their definition of perfect, such as what Viv has mentioned in this clip. Not every small detail can be noticed as work continues on, especially if one of the factors of it could be either a due date of the project or simply caring more about, for example, insuring that the in-between scenes in animation are as smooth as possible. But then again, as a guy who only went to art school for only 3 - 4 months and dropped out. This may not be the best examples or opinion that I have, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in since it's somewhat in my range of current knowledge in art and animation. Anyone is more than welcome to correct me on anything I said or show some better examples about what I've said.
100% agreed. Whenever you see a “everything wrong with (insert game, movie tv show here)” all points are mostly just stupid things that aren’t that big of a deal to come up with for more run time and an excuse for content
I mean, most Cinema Sins I have seen were actually nitpicky in a humorous way. It wasn't malicious. Just a silly video being nitpicky in a funny way to entertain people. On the other hand, I get where she is coming from. I will never understand people who are so determined to not let anyone enjoy something they don't enjoy. It's like, dude, move on. Find something you actually want to be silly and fun about
I think what she called it is a bit misleading. At the end of the day you’re not supposed to take CinemaSins serious at all. But there are people who un ironically nitpick every detail and treat it as a problem
@@rexventura4603 Yeah. I also think she used the wrong word for it, or perhaps she just doesn't like this type of entertainment. Which is okay, not everyone enjoys it.
@@rexventura4603 Yeah, probably just a way to explain the kind of nitpicky she means. People watching something just to tear it apart really is not cool.
The problem is that it can be a blurry line to differentiate between his joke part and his serious critique. Maybe it doesn't help that the internet culture is already filled with hostile desire, and his format unexpectedly gave them something to latch on to.
@@imageez well even when CinemaSins brings up an actual it’s often times something everyone has already brought up by that point. They sin movies that are months, and years old. There’s plenty of problems people of pointed out at that point. It’d be weird to not mention them in a video called “Every wrong with [Insert Film]”
Clearly Cinemasins picks out uneccessary details just for a big joke like "Oh this is a sin, satirically when it actually isn't." However, Cinemasins does occasionally pick out major things that were a detriment to the story/movie/video/episode. I get Vivienne's point though, it's a bit of a waste of time, picking out every minor detail just to call it a "sin", and all for youtube views.
I don't think she was specifically talking about THE Cinemasins, as he does it for satirical purposes, I think she was talking about people who do similar things without satire as a part of it.
@@themidknight1328 I'm pretty sure the Cinemasins guy did a few videos of himself claiming he's an arsehole and making a big joke about himself. Though, on his other videos about movies and whatever, it seems that nuance of humour is lost on any other copycat channels out there, which kinda sucks that he's the one blamed for it.
I think that is literally what makes cinemasins so annoying tho, like they sometimes do actual critique, and sometimes throw jokes around, and the jokes and actual critiques are usually done in such quantity with the same tone and without anything distinguishing them, that the line between the two things blur at times. and also how that has affected the people watching them who take them seriously is annoying too. at least thats how i remember it being till I stopped watching a couple of years ago.
I believe she meant the people who try to find flaws in places where you can't find something seriously bad or just wanna hate on that thing just because. If that's what she meant then I actually agree
Not really People have many reasons to hate her trash shows They are badly animated, written, voice acted, and have horrible songs This is not to mention how much of a hypocrite she is And shes a bad person all around, so theres no excuse
The idea of people watching something just to hate it, I think, is what she's trying to get accross as being the bad thing. While the critcs/reviewers may take a satirical approach with things, the viewers, however, may not. They accept the rage with blind faith.
To be honest, when I watch Hazbin and Helluva, I couldn't really see any flaws unless it was pointed out by somebody else. I mostly pay attention to the story and the animation and both are pretty great in my opinion! They're zany in a funny way, the jokes land pretty well for me, and they know especially how to set the tone of a scene, whether comedic or serious. People can say whatever they want on both shows, but for me, Hazbin and Helluva will always be my all time favorite shows!
What vivziepop was talking about is true there is a line between people who help you improve and people that just look for all of you mistakes and dosen`t help you improve instead calling you out from that.
this popping up on my recommended without any context and the show is now out is so crazy, i really hope other people who this pops up for read the comments and stuff cause i can see some of the fandom going after you for this
I respect this take, but at the same time she's awful at applying it to her own work. She hears criticism on her show and she interprets it all as people being haters. That, and she hates on other indie animated projects and encourages her teams to do the same. So yeah - a very do as I say, not as I do" moment.
This mindset is why people get confused or annoyed at me for still indulging in show or whatever complain about, I can like something yet still speak my mind on things I dislike about it. Hating an entire ANY over something small is ridiculous to me, barley anything in life is 100% thighs or titties mate.
I think it's fine to be a “critic” as long as you don’t turn that into your entire identity. The people who do end up actively seeking negative qualities so much that they miss the positives and at worst, get an inflated ego about their own opinions as if they're fact.
What's the point of it unless there are too much error involved that's when critical comes in. Not for the people out there but for your own damn project for those who support ya enjoy it
@@aliezahjuarez1212 well something is never gonna be perfect and there is always room for improvement. Criticism is a good thing, that’s why movie critiques exist
I love construtive criticism, both giving and receiving it. I always want to improve as a writer, and I often get ideas that never would have crossed my mind because of something a peer critiqued. However, there is a big difference between constructive criticism and hate. I often come off as the later, simply because i don't have the ability to be very delicate when making observations. Im incredibly blunt, and I rather other people do the same to me. I rarely mention the things I like in a work, because in my mind, if I didn't bring it up, it was good and there was nothing to improve upon. I only started realising this year that mu bluntness is not always appreciated. All of this to say-- even as a horribly blunt person who's critiques are often read as hate, I also very much dislike the way CinemaSins and other such content is laid out. Provide feedback and reasoning as to why something rubs you the wrong way. Feedback is the major difference between hate and criticism.
I like watching respectful critic videos that point out inconsistencies in plot or a character, but it's not an attack on the show or the creators. For example, i love the characters in miraculous ladybug. i just dont like how the writers portray certain characters and theres stuff they could've done better. I know i dont like watching the show so i stopped but i still love interacting with the fandom. Also, i love when people who do have specific criticisms reimagine the characters and plot in a different way. Like making character redesigns and making up a new backstory and traits that are totally cool.
I think there is a difference between picking something apart in a video maybe once or twice and being creepily obsessed with hating something. You see that a lot in shipping culture. (It’s not the same obviously, but the basic idea is) where people would rather constantly obsess over why they hate, for example DekuBaku, instead of enjoying the ships they do enjoy and being happy and content with that. I will never obsess over and antagonize people that like ships I don’t, because I’m an actual grown adult with a job and bills to pay, and priorities.
I feel like my biggest problem is not just the critique in these types of videos, but the pseudo-intellectual aspect to it, people nitpick the tiniest detail (often finding something that really have no effect on the movie) and act like finding it makes them smarter/more adept at understanding film. And it goes for the viewers too, I've had people quoting Gametheory and Cinema Sins believing it makes them seem more educated on the matter, in reality it just makes it look like you don't watch any movies.
I agree, and I feel that CinemaSins is especially bad for this kind of nonsense. Some of the nitpicks they’ve made in their videos have just been wrong, straight up fabricated, or something that is addressed later in the film. In videos for sequel movies, they’ve had sins that directly contradict sins from their video for the original movie. And I absolutely hate it, because even though CinemaSins will swear up and down that what they’re doing is “satire” and not a review, I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen users say that they will not watch a genuinely good movie because of the CinemaSins video on it.
There was someone that I knew for a time that this heavily reminds me of. I'm a Star Wars fan, and so were they, and they'd constantly talk about the newer releases (like Ahsoka, Book of Boba Fett, Mandalorian, etc.) with such distain and passionate hate that it felt as though they were the opposite of a fan. It kinda made be feel guilty for actually enjoying those releases, and I imagine that's how a lot of others that knew them felt too.
i super understand her point, one thing is judging but understanding the mistakes to do better later, but judging it just to be annoying and petty is horrible
What she described is literally EXACTLY what the haters are like. Love Vivzie or hate her, you gotta admit she has a point. The amount of times random people on tiktok who know NOTHING about me whatsoever have immediately judged me just bc I have a Hazbin Hotel pfp there is INSANE.
And she’s not wrong. You can absolutely watch something and be critical of it, and acknowledge that it has issues, but going out of your way to watch something specifically because you hate it and to pick it apart, and to find something to be angry about is not healthy in any way…
Cinema Sins culture are just pretty much joke channels. When they have nitpicks, they usually point it out that they are nitpicks. But, it's all mostly played for laugh and to fill up run time.
Bruh, it is 2023 (not for much longer) and this video and her point here will stand firm forever. I miss when the internet was new and we were all aware of ourselves enough to know that if we didn't like something, we could simply not partake. I feel like everyone having a platform to speak was a bad idea. Now everyone's take is supposed to be respected and heard when it really boils down to "I'm conically online and I have to share my feelings on how much I hate this because we don't go outside anymore" like no one wants to be in charge of themselves anymore. They wanna be in charge of everyone else. The fact people police FICTION so hard is pathetic indeed
I will admit I’ve had this problem before with a certain successful animator. While I am indeed a fan of his and even aspire to do what he does, over time I started to worry his level of talent was unattainable. So I started looking for any animation flaws I could find whenever he released a new video just so I could remind myself that he’s human too and not some otherworldly being with perfect, unreachable animating skills.
that's like 90% of what attention she gets too because of helluvaboss people seemed to think that she can't write or her humor is bad but people completely ignored "written by vivziepop AND brandon rogers" at the end of every episode, the jokes became repetitive because of brandon's humor vs adult comedy, everyone knows he makes offensive jokes but that's not just being put on youtube it's actually a story that's connected to another actual show that isn't posted on youtube, it could have affected the way hazbin was percepted or may not have been accepted, and people love to bring up her drama from years ago out of contexts and fill up the context w random shit. half my life i watched vivziepop and rooted for her dreams to come true only for ppl to shut her down when so many other professional artists and animators do the same or have had the same drama, and when hazbin got leaked ppl said angel's ep 4 episode was romanticizing abuse and SA WHICH IS SO GROSS to say ppl do that, say ppl's works support shit like that, i am a victim of sa and if i worked 4 years on a episode and show, inputting my feeling into a character and when my hard work gets LEAKED then ppl say IM ROMANTICIZING MY TRAUMA AND VENT i'd be miserable and depressed bc nobody cares to listen to actual victims, they just use victims as a way to argue.
I agree, but I also think it's annoying when someone refuses to acknowledge any criticism about a show they love. It is stupid to watch something you don't like just to criticize it, but it's also stupid to get mad and insult someone for saying something negative about a show you love. Nothing is perfect. So every show will have its flaws. I think it's great when you know the flaws within the show, but you still love it for what it is. My favorite show, I will admit the second season was a mess, but I still love the show because of the characters. I don't have to love everything about a show to love the show.
@@bronwenlaporte You made the mistake of asking me that question. Now I'm going to go on a rant. Okay, so I'm big into cartoons. I decided that my favorite show is Milo Murphy's Law. You can stop reading here if that's all you care about. I love this show because it plays on the saying Murphy's Law which means "If anything can go wrong, will go wrong." The main character is cursed with bad luck. He's super positive about it and learns to overcome his bad luck. But, my favorite part of the show was the B plot involving time travel! I'm a sucker for time travel stories. What happened to Season 2? Well, the creators of Milo Murphy's Law also created Phineas and Ferb. So Disney came up with the brilliant idea of added a character from Phineas and Ferb, Doofenshmirtz, to Milo Murphy's Law to try to get more views. At first I thought that idea was interesting. But they pretty much made him a main character! He pretty much became the new B plot of the show. He was in more episodes in season 2 than my favorite characters! Do you know how weird it is to have a show you love slowly get invaded by a more popular show for a whole season? Oh also, no more time travel in season 2, boooo. Even though there are other bad things I can say about this show, to me the positive outweighs the negative. I'm never going to blindly love a show. I have a critical eye. I like looking at everything and picking out the things I love and the things I don't. But I can appreciate this show for what it is. Even with all its flaws. And I can't get over the fact that they had an episode in season 1 about one of the time travelers dying over and over again while the other time traveler goes back in time to save him. I love it! I can't believe they got away with that in a show meant for kids.
That's kinda how I feel in my creative writing classes when students bring up tropes and how we shouldn't do tropes. We have thousands of years worth of stories, it's impossible to NOT do tropes, and not all tropes are bad!
On one hand I get it, but on another, hatewatching shit is p fun. My best friend and I hate-watched all of that god awful Highschool dxd and ragging on it was a blast.
I think what they mean is when people take concepts like Cinema-Sins and take it way too far. They put too much emphasis on things and take it too seriously, instead of playing it up for comedy: because there is definitely a difference. You can make jokes about flaws in things and play up the nit-picking for comedy's sake, but still really enjoy a show and find it entertaining. I think we can all appreciate that kind of humor. I think we all can relate to watching a series that's kind of "trash" or something that we can see is very flawed or can be flawed, and still finding entertainment out of it. It's basically junk food for our brain, as we love it and it's fine. What isn't fun is when someone takes themself and the series they are scrutinizing **way too serious**, to the point where they are just coming off as someone who is being an ass and hating the show. I think a majority of people can agree that they don't like having 'negative nancies' running around them when they are trying to enjoy something; no matter how "trashy" it is.
I agree with her. You can critique , but you shouldn't hate watch you know. Her work does have some flaws like overall pacing and certain plots , but it's mostly enjoyable. If you hate watch ANY content that isn't really deserving of the hate ( like some sort of bootleg finding Nemo movie) then don't watch it. You just give views to the product you don't like. Like I said Critism ( even if harsh) is valid. Imma add something here because I'm getting some less than thought out replies , YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE HER OR HER WORK. I'm saying if you get no enjoyment , like you can't even laugh at the work the why watch it? I'm saying if you have no valid critism to give on your UA-cam channel or in the comments , why watch it? If you are on your couch genuinely mad , just angry , and all you have to say is "this fucking blows" and you're just absolutely miserable , why are you watching it? Dislike her work all you want but don't stress yourself out in the process lmao
Actually, I disagree tbh. Positivity is not positivity without negativity. You need to find what you like to know what you dislike, and saying "i dislike this because of these reasons" (whether ironically or unironically) without making it personal never hurt anyone. Saberspark, for example, makes a whole bunch of videos on bootleg Christian animation making fun of it (since most of the companies who make it are just in it for the money), but he does give credit where credit is due. Again, criticism, yes, even satirical, is still criticism, and if a creator you can't realize people's intentions and act accordingly, you shouldn't be a widespread creator. You can't have the world protecting you from negative, harsh opinions, because then you're going to sit there and go "why does nobody like my work?" without any response, either harsh, satirical, or constructive. To know what works, you need to know what doesn't work, even if that means getting a bit butthurt.
@@DabroodThompson It not only subtly harms the person in question by making them jaded, but also makes them think that what they have to say about the media in question is so important that they have the right to constantly harass fans of said media with how much they hate it Like you literally can’t appeal anything nowadays without some random asshole coming in to trash on it and hurl all sorts of insults at its creators Additionally, hate watching shows that push genuinely harmful and bigoted narratives just gives them more financial support and shows the producers that people still want to see it, which will cause them to make more of it which will cause it to spread it’s perverted sentimentalities even further
I have to disagree with the premise of this vehemently. Some of my best memories with my brother were us both being drunk as a skunk watching something we both hated and ripping it to shreds. People who say hate watching is bad are lying to themselves and everyone else.
You can still be criticizing if you really don't like something or hate it, hating something in this is literally just something bothering you so much. There's levels of mood you can have while criticizing.
While I don't agree sith her completely I get where she's coming from....just...there is a thing called "constructive criticism" but some people nitpick and it get a little frustrating...tho I completely agree that you can watch a show even tho you see all the flaws...I do see some stuff that's wrong with this show or my all time favorite movie but they will never become anything less than favorites...and I think y'all can agree...
The only reason why I uploaded this was because I make my own "cinema sins" videos on Viv's content. This was supposed to be a funny inside joke for my subscribers, not a video that appeared in a bunch of peoples' feeds who don't know the context.
Edit 6/23/22: Good lord, is this video RE-appearing in peoples' feeds without context? Because this was uploaded almost seven months ago and has nothing to do with the current drama, just fyi.
Oooooh ok
Don't watch you, but watch similar things, so I do know the context. I get it, it's funny, and I know what she's talking about. Most channels like yours that I watch (like molinimus) are usually playful and still generally like the content they watch, but for anyone who does it just for negativity sake, that's just stupid
You've played yourself
Sorry
Thanks for the context 💖
Vivzipop: “I hate the Cinemasins-y culture…”
RandomGameCritic: **crying** That’s a mood Gabriella
😂😂😂
LMFAO
YES
LMAO YESS
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣I’m dead bruh
i love what shes saying here but "you can always be critical and still love something" deserves its own conversation too. not enough people hear this.
There are shows and movies I like that I will also acknowledge have their issues. It could be some poor writing, plot holes, poorly aged scenes, bad acting or annoying songs. I will still enjoy watching them in the moment but when a scene shows up with that glaring error I won't pretend it's not faulty. Neither will I pretend that a show created or co-created with a person who turned out to be an absolute scumbag/ nightmare behind the scenes and after the show ended wasn't an absolute scumbag/ nightmare- I like Ren and Stimpy, loved it as a kid, still do, Adult Party Cartoon was a fucking mess (with like 2 scenes that were okay and one reasonable-ish ep but even that's debatable) but John Kricfalusi was and still is an abuser and creep. The other workers on the show did a great job but suffered for it. Maybe the reboot will be crap- probably but at least he's not abusing anyone else on it.
Watching something you KNOW you will hate just to pick on it even knowing that like the overall genre isn't for you because you were never interested in it is just wasted time and effort IMO. Go do something more productive rather than get mad at some Sci-Fi show you hate because 'It's got stupid fucking aliens and spaceships in it and it's for NEEERDS!' Why are you watching a sci-fi show if you HATE sci-fi? It's like me getting mad and ragging on a torture-fest horror movie knowing I hate torture-fest horror. What the fuck did you expect? A fucking romance film to come out of nowhere? A dumb action movie to get shat out mid-way, a bait and switch?
I like Helluva Boss. The writing has improved but there are still some issues here and there. That's fine. I still watch it, enjoy it and don't go on long nitpicky rants about the most miniscule 'issue' it has. I do think sometimes the swearing can get a bit much but it's not utterly overshadowing the cartoon as a whole. I just think it's kind of like the belching in Rick and Morty. Initially started damn near constant but gradually eased over time. For some characters it makes sense, Mammon for example is an abusive dickbag who from the sounds of it is casually abusive to his fans but they're so thrilled by his presence and fanboying of him that they are too blind to notice it or are so desperate for his attention that they'd welcome his abuse just because it's some form of interaction from him directly TO them- 'HEY HE JUST SAID I'M A WORTHLESS SHIT WHO'S ONLY GOOD FOR THEIR MONEY! HE NOTICED MEE!!!'
I'm rambling-
TL:DR Quit getting mad at daft cartoons or seeking things to get mad at, be productive, it's okay to like imperfect things because nothing in life is perfect just so long as you recognise the issues that it has.
I have so many movies and shows that are "bad" that I love! My main example is the Percy Jackson movie. As a movie, it's not great, and as an adaptation, it's terrible. But I still love it, even when pointing out things that don't make sense or could have turned out better.
People love gatekeeping fans who do love the media they consume and it's frustrating to see/be on the other end of
Literally everyone says this? If all you're doing is bitching about something you claim to love you're not a fan and you're just being toxic. Cut that media out for your own sake if it makes you that negative
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 Maybe they "claim" to love it because they actually love it lolol. I "complain" about the media I enjoy all the time but I still love it. I would be damned if somebody told me I dont actually love the series I personally spent 2k on, in order to support the creator(s), just because I love complaining about it. you would be surprised to know some people actually ENJOY picking at the things they like.
Viv: "I hate Cinema sinsy culture..."
RandomGameCritic: "I don't feel safe."
Cinemasins: oh shi-
To be fair cinemasins also does cinemawins
@@matthewfoster6651 that's not the same dude
Your jokes are getting funnier and funnier guys, keep it up ._.
@@matthewfoster6651 No, they're different people who aren't associated with each other with very different mentalities and goals.
Hate watching is so stupid
That’s literally the reason Velma got a season 2
I hate watch it for fun and to have more reasons to hate it and dunk on it if im gonna be honest here
And 3
@@mariobermudez1228I sure hope they don't get a season 3 over this.
It’s actually because the season was already prepared for 2 seasons, it most likely wasn’t hate watching, but WB making dumbass decisions
@@GARFIELDENA true
I get her frustration, seeing as most Cinema Sins clones do mostly nerdy nick-picking. Very few, including yourself however, seem to point out actual flaws that could actually hurt the series moving forward. It just so happens that the bad outweighs the good critiques.
But Cinema Sins often like what they make fun of. The do it for fun, to make jokes.
Given how high some of those sin counts are at the end, you can see how they don't take the sin count seriously.
That's specifically why I like to watch Th3Birdman since he takes the time to correct Jeremy from Cinemasins' "criticisms".Also, as far as RandomGameCritic is concerned, he seems to actually care about Helluva Boss.
@@RigidRat I do too, really.
@@RigidRat cinima sins is literally a joke channel
Pokésins by Garonr1va and Chariii5’s are good.
She has a point tbh, you'll be fine since most of your nitpicks are jokes and you actually state when you're serious
Your likes tho..
@@BijouluvsJewels1234 holy shit I've been cursed
It was 777 but I made it to 778 😎
No, it’s obvious she doesn’t like it plus it’s always best to tell the creator permission before straight up doing it without them knowing that they don’t like it.
Im agree
She has a big point. Sometimes you can't enjoy something because people will point out every single flaw with whatever you like and make you feel bad for enjoying things
Funny, personally I will enjoy them even more out of pure spite. For example, Mineta from MHA used to just a funny side character that I enjoy, but people keep shitting on him, so now he’s my favorite character in the entire series.
@@sammysaito529Is it possible that you would end up loving Valentino? Because I would too.
That's just not true for some people, there's tons of things I consume and enjoy that get pooped on regularly and I'm still consuming and enjoying those things and will continue to consume and enjoy them until I get tired of them or die.
I've been feeling that shit for years. And everything I ever enjoyed ended up being poisoned by that nerd culture.
She's completely right. Hate-watching is completely stupid.
Hate watching is fun af lol not every show is good. Those objectively bad shows need their patrons too lol
@@InnerAtanihit depends. I love cringe stuff and 'so bad it's good' shows/movies. but a lot of people don't do that, they watch things that are clearly making them consistently very mad.
I don't think she was calling you out but more of the people who hate watch shows they know they don't like.
No, this stream aired long before I started making videos about her content lol.
@@RandomGameCritic you think she watches your videos
God, I hope not.
@randomgamecritic you make some of the most popular helluva boss content on the site so she has probably seen at least one of them.
@@RandomGameCritic it would be hella funny tho
I don’t know if this is a good thin or a bad thing. But start praying dude
same
She has a point, a lot of folks watch content just to be bitter and hate on it instead of watching something they actually like. I think Viv used the wrong example here since Cinemasins normally nitpicks on purpose for comedic value. Personally, I believe you're one of the few people that criticizes Vivziepop's work that actually legitimately wants the show to improve and be the best that it can possibly be. I say this mainly due to the fact that a lot of other videos/channels that criticize Viv's work don't actually give substantial points on why they don't like the show and instead resort to just saying the show is bad....and that's it.. which in turn doesn't give the creators the feedback to improve.
Keep on doing what you're doing man, you're a great reviewer and the whole Cinemasinsy aspect of it makes it a lot more enjoyable. Also, sorry for the Bible sized paragraph, I like to ramble a lot 😅
I think a good example would’ve been PKRussel’s video back when the Hazbin Hotel pilot came out
@@rexventura4603 the one that has been 👎 so much that now it get recommend in the antipode?
@@simoneval2619 I mean a good example of how unironically nitpicky some critics are. That video was awful
Honestly one of the best (from what I recall) first critiques of Viv's work such as Hazbin Hotel was by SolarSands. Though now I have no idea where that video went to. He brought up a lot of good points criticizing certain visual and audio aspects while appreciating the quality of some parts.
@@user-cp1lj3bn3b I agree! He did a good job of pointing out what the show did well and what it didn’t. He was one of the few people to point out some glaring issues that most negative reviews somehow missed (I guess because they were too focused on bashing on the comedic style or plot), which was that it was very hard to distinguish the characters from the background with how similarly colored they were and a few wonky composition shots. I think he also had a solid point about the character designs being a little too busy? But overall he did a great job balancing the good with the bad in a constructive and respectful manner, unlike some other reviews **cough** PKRussl **cough**
As someone who keeps up with the show through Tumblr - I get what she's trying to say: Cinemasins has cultivated a culture where it nitpicks stuff just to nitpick under the guise of satire (which, ironically, it cultivated by the "oh, just pointing out inconsistencies doesn't garner enough views" mindset) but in its influence the ripoffs come off as really whiny because they, like the original, missed the point of why they were created and morphed into a whole other thing.
However, you've changed. You don't like the show, but now instead of being immature - you ate your crow and acknowledged when it was good - that speech was something I didn't see coming, and I subscribed to you because of it.
She must have said this in response to the nitpicky side, and...yeah, I agree as a burgeoning writer that she needs to improve but they're not helping anymore. They're nitpicking shit they don't like.
I ended up unsubscribing to Cinemasins for this exact reason, and now watch stuff like The Birdman and CinemaWins, who don't fawn over the movies, but are a more positive spin on the Cinemasins "culture."
lmao i love pointlessly nitpicking things (also imo the nitpicking is satire)
I think cinema sins ripoffs are more liable to this than actual cinema sins they rerelease mean there criticism and often joke about not being able to resist the urge to sin. Like it’s literally a parody of obnoxious reviewers. And I find cinema sins really funny because they are joking and a lot of the movies they review Arnt bad
@@choesta They keep saying it is - but then their recent sins are like, observations of what's happening on screen or his weird fantasies ("Emma Watson isn't giving me a boner right now.") - which might have originally worked as a pastiché of That Nerd You'd Never Invite To Movies until the algorithm forced them to make longer videos, and thus totally make up sins as a result and overuse those "gags."
@@platypodesrock9221 That doesn't mean shit when their impact creates MORE obnoxious reviewers who missed their "satire."
Hot take: CinemaWins is just as bad.
I think there's a difference between satirical nitpicking (that might not be the right word for it but whatever) and genuinely being critical of every little flaw a show has for no reason other than you want to hate on it
Yeah. I like to poke fun at incosistencies and not suspend movies, but I don't hate them. I just enjoy not suspending disbelief sometimes.
im pretty sure that is what she is talking about
If that's the case, then I think that makes sense, yeah
The thing is, to a creator both of these things are equally obnoxious and insulting to their hard work. Even a "joking nitpick" or "satirical" joke at their expense that's made by some nobody trying to capitalize on the hate from their work feels awful and frustrating regardless, because joke or not, people will unironically agree with them
except her fans can’t tell the difference and treat any kind of criticism like a personal attack. It's the main reason I stopped watching her, because it's impossible to discuss her work if it's not done as part of the positivity circlejerk
I honestly don't consider myself a fan of her stuff but I respect this take so much. I totally agree that people go out of their way to consume content they HATE just to feel bitter about it. Negativity is overrated.
except she then has constant meltdowns on twitter about her "haters" for pointing out legitimate flaws in her show and her characters.
It's been 2 seasons and she still hasn't done anything with millie but just said "nuh uh" in the form of a multiple tweet tantrum
@@YodaOnABenderI think it’s mainly about emotional maturity which she doesn’t really seem to have, but that doesn’t make me see her as a villain. I just wish she took a break off of twitter
@@flufflecake9232 Agreed, she has flaws just like everyone else. Also, her not being able to handle critics could be because *SO MANY* people like to hate on it, 1, she could maybe not differentiate constructive criticism and plan hate anymore, or because there's been souch hate, she doesn't even want any form of criticism at all. I too agree she just needs to delete Twitter.
The negativity from it and the pressure to keep *2 SHOWS* afloat must really get to her... I feel sorry for her :(
@@YodaOnABenderknow this is 7 months old now but im just seeing this now 😅 I totally agree, 2 seasons and still no millie episode? kinda sad man, but again, it was confirmed that helluva boss will have at least 4 season so i hope by then we can at least get ONE episode where they make millie the main character 🤦♀️
to keep in mind that helluva boss ain't all vivzie's work, we also have the writers so blame so honestly i really don't shame her too much for the "millie problem".
Idk sometimes hate watching things can be a healthy outlet. but you have to be careful not to take it too far and know when to quit when things get out of hand.
Holy CRAP, this thing blew up so much that it passed up my "Ozzie's" video in a single day! And there also seems to be a lot of confusion in the comments section, so let me clarify:
First of all, I wasn't trying to make any sort of statement by posting this. I literally just did it because I thought it would be funny.
Second, this clip was taken from a stream that aired LONG before I started making my sins videos. Viv definitely wasn't talking about me in this clip.
And third, I don't consider myself to be the kind of person that falls under Viv's description in this clip. I genuinely like her content and 98% of my sins aren't even sins anymore. They're just jokes.
Edit 11/28/2021
Okay so the algorithm gods have apparently decided to put this video in peoples' feeds even though this video was literally something that I posted JUST for my subscribers, because it's a pretty funny clip if you know the context.
...And the context is kinda important. So, to all of the people that found this video and aren't in on the joke: Sorry about that. Blame UA-cam.
1: FIRST REPLY
2: It kinda felt that you were playing yourself tbh but its still funny...
How about we don’t at all, cause it just looks like your putting random shit in videos, getting content out of others videos just by seeing mistakes that don’t matter, instead of enjoying it you make stupid fast talking or whatever the fuck in videos, like come on, it’s obvious she doesn’t like it. 🤦♀️
🤡
@@evanorsomeoneelse127 it’s
a
joke
:’) I don’t even watch this dude and got this on my recommendations but chill out it’s just a joke, people make jokes out of other people’s contents, and depending on the jokes that becomes their own content because theyre taking the original and adding things onto it! wowie, surprise surprise!
@@CarmenRodriguez-gq5gq ah yes an emoji sooo offensive
I agree. I can't think of anything I watch solely to see it fail.
High guardian spice tho
@@hakujoudaidraws2633 There is always an expectation, that is one of them.
@@minced_man Is it tho? People are so corny nitpicking that show.
I haven’t watched any of the videos but I did see one clip of people making fun of it. It seems like people just dragging it on and on.
@@VintageToilet The animators were so lazy they used a STOCK IMAGE LITERALLY FROM GOOGLE IMAGES RATHER THAN DRAWING A FUCKING LIGHT POST. So I can say yeah it's that bad.
@@minced_man I guess, but UA-cam kept recommending me those videos and they were filled with so much negativity that I had to keep myself away from the drama. At first they were funny, then they got malicious and exhausting. They were all from the same channel, like, if you wanna criticize something do it on a couple of videos and offer a way to improve it or therefore you aren't offering a critique.
A lot of the viewers didn't even watch the show, they were just jumping on the hate train. And I know this because I never watched either. No idea why UA-cam was recommending them to me.
And I'm not even interested in that show, but they give Kiwifarms vibes and my mind was like.... *nope* Not saying not liking something is bad, but when you invest your entire time on watching something that makes you mad and hateful when you could... do something positive or useful... I don't get it
Viv: I hate the cinema sinsy culture
RandomGameCritic: Huh I wonder who that’s for
Ps thanks for all the support this is possibly the most popular thing I’ll ever make
Patrick :0
Mr enter:.....
What's wrong with sin videos? Like Tf is she saying? I get it If you watch a series and you only watch it to nitpick or hate it and tell other people not to watch it. But when you literally have a channel that does that for the sake of a joke and content I don't get it.Like they aren't telling anyone the series is bad so what's wrong? It seems like she's just sensitive to critism.
The Ps edit ruins this comment
True though
Vivziepop if she was written by vivziepop
The internet needs to understand that liking something ironically is still deep down just liking it. I like respectfully enjoying terrible media. Stuff like The Room makes me laugh because of how bad it is, but that doesn’t mean I’m a dick to its creator. In fact I thank them for all the laughs and good times they’ve brought me. When someone brings me that good juicy cringe I wanna shake their hand and tell them I’m their biggest fan, even if I’m enjoying their work on a level they didn’t intend.
That's so beautiful.
those are some great points you are making here!
Every good choice of words there buddy
Totally! For me, I absolutely adore Civil War era and historical romance novels. Are they garbage? Yes, they just about always feature racism, sexism, etc, and they're often poorly plotted and horribly written. HOWEVER, I acknowledge that they're problematic while I enjoy the media. (I also don't contribute financially and use stuff like the Internet Archive to read it for free.)
I mean
the creator of the Room was apparently a shitty person
and also potentially a criminal
the lore goes deep
On a completely unrelated note, RandomGameCritic has stopped making sins videos
When?
@@bluekunt I think they’re just joking
He hasn't but he said he he's changed how he views the series
Tbh I hope he doesn't
The creator of Helluva Boss: "You can like something and still be critical of it"
The helluva boss fandom when you give any kind of valid criticism: *"iF yOu dOn'T liKe iT tHeN lEaVe!!!"*
To be fair, Viv repeatedly insists that she can handle criticism but then she repeatedly demonstrates that she absolutely cannot.
@@RandomGameCritic viv: “noooooe! You can’t point out how underdeveloped Millie is after me having 2 seasons and failing to give her a single episode!”
honestly, i critisize the show sometimes too but the bad critsism always gets more spotlight than the ACTUAL good critisism which just sucks
@@YodaOnABender JUSTICE FOR MILLIE!!!
@@YodaOnABenderI personally think Unhappy Camper is a good episode
“That one didn’t age quite so well” JohnTron
why????
@@santiaguo21 she deflect nearly all criticism, constructive or not about her show, fans trying to help her are getting pressured into deleting there tweets and some videos poking fun at her work.
Problem is, she considers most criticism leveled at her work as nitpicking, even when people point out major flaws in the writing, world building, pacing, design elements, etc.
Can you give an example? I've definitely seen her address unwarranted hate (which imo, she would do best to just ignore bc it just makes her look sensitive), but when has she got mad about good/constructive criticism?
I don't think you're on her hit list, as most of your criticisms are harmless jokes and the actual critics you have with the show are agreeable
Yeah this clip is from ages ago long before he made his sins videos
I may not like hazbin hotel but THAT’S straight facts she’s spitting
I think she means if you don't like watching something but keep watching it just to hate it. It's less about actually criticism and more like you just go into something to just look for mistakes instead of just watching it cuz you enjoy watching it.
I mean yeah, you should only cinemasins a piece of media you actually enjoy. If you clearly hate it and are pointing to every minor flaw. That’s just being a bad critic. But when you really like the content and point to every minor flaw, that’s more like showing appreciation
@@frimi8593 yeah I get you, pointing out flaws in a work cuz you enjoy it and want it to do better is good. BUT If you point out just the bad stuff and barely the good stuff it can come off as hateful and nitpicky. I get discribing what you like in a peice can be difficult, sometimes you don't even know why you like it. You just do. You don't have to say everything you like about a work, it's just the thing that comes with being critical. Also maybe Viv just don't want harsh critic on the crew's work. She SHOULD, but Talking about a piece of paper not having writing on it properly seems a bit overboard to her.
But what if I hated watch something to review it, and look for the mistakes to judge it accurately. Like what is wrong with looking for the flaws/mistakes?
@@G.N.F462 If you want to critics things you don't like, fine. I don't care. But please recognise not everyone will not have the mentally to do that, it's straining Being negative all the time. and for some artists wanting to improve in story telling, picking apart the worst examples will not always help them improve. Also some people just wanna watch stuff cuz they like it no matter if it's trash or not. God the fact ya'll keep going back to "Why is critiquing bad things bad?" just proves the negative mindset you place yourself in. It's not about critics, it's about how much joy you derived from a work and liking it dispite it's flaws. God go and watch something you actually like then something you hate but like to critics and see how much joy you derived from the two.
@@G.N.F462 it’s not a matter of looking for broader mistakes like if a work has poor writing or something. That’s not what “cinemasins-ing” is. What were referring to is basically combing through every frame to find little inconsistencies, animation errors, kinda weird dialogue, etc. instead of examining the movie as a whole
A lot of people on Twitter need to hear this
While I believe cinema sins is and creators who series like it are genuinely just joking around, I get what she's saying and totally agree. Nowadays people are so overly critical of media and art
yea basically cinema sins is the one that made this satire critic culture (no, i dont think they made it entirely, but they made it Big the first place) its alll fun n games till someone actually does the most petiest nitpick project on some 4 second lipsync that was a lil off course and nearly missed by idk everyyonne in a goddamn 30 minute video?
People took Nostalgia Critic, CinemaSins and other "angry youtube reviewers" WAY too seriously during their peak. Combine that with the stereotypical nerdy superiority complex (because everyone on the Internet suddenly seems to think they're a genius) and you get some very hostile critics.
More like people are overly sensitive and offended over criticism over their media and art they made
You can blame critical theorists for that
@@danielavanilla4331 I kinda think it's both? And ironically the most sensitive people also seem to be the most antagonistic when it comes to other artists' work.
There really is nothing worse than an artist’s greatest fears being proven right
I was agreeing with u until I remembered the terrible people that exist😭
@@mrpickles-hb6zx I just meant they people pointing out every pixel mistake in an art piece are annoying
i think the youtube algorithm has a sense of humor 😭
As someone who has a bad habit of nick-picking [despite acknowledging that such small things shouldn't be that worrisome], I can agree to this. It's one thing if there is the slightest out-of-place detail in one's work, no one's perfect, but also not terrible; but to choose those particularly small details as much as an out-of-place color on a character and believe it's what would indefinitely make their work fail is asinine (not sure if that's a proper word for how I'm going with this).
Also gotta consider the behind the scenes stuff in terms of how they work and their definition of perfect, such as what Viv has mentioned in this clip. Not every small detail can be noticed as work continues on, especially if one of the factors of it could be either a due date of the project or simply caring more about, for example, insuring that the in-between scenes in animation are as smooth as possible.
But then again, as a guy who only went to art school for only 3 - 4 months and dropped out. This may not be the best examples or opinion that I have, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in since it's somewhat in my range of current knowledge in art and animation. Anyone is more than welcome to correct me on anything I said or show some better examples about what I've said.
100% agreed. Whenever you see a “everything wrong with (insert game, movie tv show here)” all points are mostly just stupid things that aren’t that big of a deal to come up with for more run time and an excuse for content
I mean, most Cinema Sins I have seen were actually nitpicky in a humorous way. It wasn't malicious. Just a silly video being nitpicky in a funny way to entertain people.
On the other hand, I get where she is coming from. I will never understand people who are so determined to not let anyone enjoy something they don't enjoy. It's like, dude, move on. Find something you actually want to be silly and fun about
I think what she called it is a bit misleading. At the end of the day you’re not supposed to take CinemaSins serious at all.
But there are people who un ironically nitpick every detail and treat it as a problem
@@rexventura4603 Yeah. I also think she used the wrong word for it, or perhaps she just doesn't like this type of entertainment. Which is okay, not everyone enjoys it.
@@rexventura4603 Yeah, probably just a way to explain the kind of nitpicky she means. People watching something just to tear it apart really is not cool.
The problem is that it can be a blurry line to differentiate between his joke part and his serious critique. Maybe it doesn't help that the internet culture is already filled with hostile desire, and his format unexpectedly gave them something to latch on to.
@@imageez well even when CinemaSins brings up an actual it’s often times something everyone has already brought up by that point. They sin movies that are months, and years old. There’s plenty of problems people of pointed out at that point. It’d be weird to not mention them in a video called “Every wrong with [Insert Film]”
Clearly Cinemasins picks out uneccessary details just for a big joke like "Oh this is a sin, satirically when it actually isn't." However, Cinemasins does occasionally pick out major things that were a detriment to the story/movie/video/episode.
I get Vivienne's point though, it's a bit of a waste of time, picking out every minor detail just to call it a "sin", and all for youtube views.
I don't think she was specifically talking about THE Cinemasins, as he does it for satirical purposes, I think she was talking about people who do similar things without satire as a part of it.
@@themidknight1328 I'm pretty sure the Cinemasins guy did a few videos of himself claiming he's an arsehole and making a big joke about himself.
Though, on his other videos about movies and whatever, it seems that nuance of humour is lost on any other copycat channels out there, which kinda sucks that he's the one blamed for it.
i prefer th3birdman, tbh.
I think that is literally what makes cinemasins so annoying tho, like they sometimes do actual critique, and sometimes throw jokes around, and the jokes and actual critiques are usually done in such quantity with the same tone and without anything distinguishing them, that the line between the two things blur at times.
and also how that has affected the people watching them who take them seriously is annoying too.
at least thats how i remember it being till I stopped watching a couple of years ago.
A video criticizing hazbin hotel happens to be in my autoplay lmfao
This is 100% being relevant now because of the whole twitter thing of: "Vivziepop's humour is swear word + slur + sex joke = Helluva Boss" stuff.
I believe she meant the people who try to find flaws in places where you can't find something seriously bad or just wanna hate on that thing just because. If that's what she meant then I actually agree
Well...
This just became relevant again
heartbreaking: the worst person you know just made a GREAT point
Not really
People have many reasons to hate her trash shows
They are badly animated, written, voice acted, and have horrible songs
This is not to mention how much of a hypocrite she is
And shes a bad person all around, so theres no excuse
me: watches this vid
UA-cam: anyways up next is "Everything Wrong With Helluva Boss S1 E3: Spring Broken"
The idea of people watching something just to hate it, I think, is what she's trying to get accross as being the bad thing. While the critcs/reviewers may take a satirical approach with things, the viewers, however, may not. They accept the rage with blind faith.
To be honest, when I watch Hazbin and Helluva, I couldn't really see any flaws unless it was pointed out by somebody else.
I mostly pay attention to the story and the animation and both are pretty great in my opinion!
They're zany in a funny way, the jokes land pretty well for me, and they know especially how to set the tone of a scene, whether comedic or serious.
People can say whatever they want on both shows, but for me, Hazbin and Helluva will always be my all time favorite shows!
Based
Based
Crazy how people have entire channels based around giving constructive critiques and they tend to point out the bad writing in both her shows
What vivziepop was talking about is true there is a line between people who help you improve and people that just look for all of you mistakes and dosen`t help you improve instead calling you out from that.
this popping up on my recommended without any context and the show is now out is so crazy, i really hope other people who this pops up for read the comments and stuff cause i can see some of the fandom going after you for this
Her mind would change real quick if she discovered the magic of bullying people for making bad shows.
I respect this take, but at the same time she's awful at applying it to her own work. She hears criticism on her show and she interprets it all as people being haters. That, and she hates on other indie animated projects and encourages her teams to do the same. So yeah - a very do as I say, not as I do" moment.
This mindset is why people get confused or annoyed at me for still indulging in show or whatever complain about, I can like something yet still speak my mind on things I dislike about it. Hating an entire ANY over something small is ridiculous to me, barley anything in life is 100% thighs or titties mate.
Shes right, nothing can be perfect! Thats fine obviously.
Vivzie should know one thing:
Everyone should accept criticism no matter what (as long they do have a point and being respectful)
I think it's fine to be a “critic” as long as you don’t turn that into your entire identity. The people who do end up actively seeking negative qualities so much that they miss the positives and at worst, get an inflated ego about their own opinions as if they're fact.
I feel like if you want to go into animation or film for example, it’s good to be critical of things including your own work
What's the point of it unless there are too much error involved that's when critical comes in. Not for the people out there but for your own damn project for those who support ya enjoy it
@@aliezahjuarez1212 well something is never gonna be perfect and there is always room for improvement. Criticism is a good thing, that’s why movie critiques exist
I love construtive criticism, both giving and receiving it. I always want to improve as a writer, and I often get ideas that never would have crossed my mind because of something a peer critiqued. However, there is a big difference between constructive criticism and hate. I often come off as the later, simply because i don't have the ability to be very delicate when making observations. Im incredibly blunt, and I rather other people do the same to me. I rarely mention the things I like in a work, because in my mind, if I didn't bring it up, it was good and there was nothing to improve upon. I only started realising this year that mu bluntness is not always appreciated. All of this to say-- even as a horribly blunt person who's critiques are often read as hate, I also very much dislike the way CinemaSins and other such content is laid out. Provide feedback and reasoning as to why something rubs you the wrong way. Feedback is the major difference between hate and criticism.
I like watching respectful critic videos that point out inconsistencies in plot or a character, but it's not an attack on the show or the creators. For example, i love the characters in miraculous ladybug. i just dont like how the writers portray certain characters and theres stuff they could've done better. I know i dont like watching the show so i stopped but i still love interacting with the fandom.
Also, i love when people who do have specific criticisms reimagine the characters and plot in a different way. Like making character redesigns and making up a new backstory and traits that are totally cool.
I think there is a difference between picking something apart in a video maybe once or twice and being creepily obsessed with hating something.
You see that a lot in shipping culture. (It’s not the same obviously, but the basic idea is) where people would rather constantly obsess over why they hate, for example DekuBaku, instead of enjoying the ships they do enjoy and being happy and content with that. I will never obsess over and antagonize people that like ships I don’t, because I’m an actual grown adult with a job and bills to pay, and priorities.
Damn she called you out
She sounds mad :)
Well knowing how she throws tantrums over people criticizing her show on Twitter, i wouldnt be suprsied lmao
"If you just watch it to look for the mistakes than grow up"
Velma: *sweats nervously in corner*
I 100% agree with her on that, why watch something you hate ? What do you get from hate watching ?
* Says Vivziepop as she gets mad at all the "(Video) If it was written by Vivziepop" videos *:
"My name is Caine, and I'm your bitch"
I feel like my biggest problem is not just the critique in these types of videos, but the pseudo-intellectual aspect to it, people nitpick the tiniest detail (often finding something that really have no effect on the movie) and act like finding it makes them smarter/more adept at understanding film. And it goes for the viewers too, I've had people quoting Gametheory and Cinema Sins believing it makes them seem more educated on the matter, in reality it just makes it look like you don't watch any movies.
I agree, and I feel that CinemaSins is especially bad for this kind of nonsense. Some of the nitpicks they’ve made in their videos have just been wrong, straight up fabricated, or something that is addressed later in the film. In videos for sequel movies, they’ve had sins that directly contradict sins from their video for the original movie. And I absolutely hate it, because even though CinemaSins will swear up and down that what they’re doing is “satire” and not a review, I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen users say that they will not watch a genuinely good movie because of the CinemaSins video on it.
Yep, she's right. People will miss the forest for the trees every chance they get.
Reading the comments, it's almost AMAZING how this backfired.
God, I know this was uploaded before the shit show currently happening, but this is just hilarious 💀💀
There was someone that I knew for a time that this heavily reminds me of. I'm a Star Wars fan, and so were they, and they'd constantly talk about the newer releases (like Ahsoka, Book of Boba Fett, Mandalorian, etc.) with such distain and passionate hate that it felt as though they were the opposite of a fan. It kinda made be feel guilty for actually enjoying those releases, and I imagine that's how a lot of others that knew them felt too.
i super understand her point, one thing is judging but understanding the mistakes to do better later, but judging it just to be annoying and petty is horrible
The first sentence she says is a big insight into how viv views her own show and its ironic that she cant take criticism
Well i mean,she was kinda have a point tho,like ive never seen any cinema or animation sins youtubers make animation themselves to know how hard it is
Vivzi woke up and decided to educate us. great clip!
Viv: I hate this Cinemasins-y culture
RGC: **cries**
What she described is literally EXACTLY what the haters are like. Love Vivzie or hate her, you gotta admit she has a point. The amount of times random people on tiktok who know NOTHING about me whatsoever have immediately judged me just bc I have a Hazbin Hotel pfp there is INSANE.
She’s after you bro
Exactly
@@ImproviseNow not really this was made ages ago
@@akiraohalloran oh I didn't know that
And she’s not wrong. You can absolutely watch something and be critical of it, and acknowledge that it has issues, but going out of your way to watch something specifically because you hate it and to pick it apart, and to find something to be angry about is not healthy in any way…
I do it for fun to be honest, and to have more reasons to hate GAYlluva boss, not because to feel miserable lol
@@anonymousnoise72601 Ngl this makes you sound pathetic as hell LOL
Cinema Sins culture are just pretty much joke channels. When they have nitpicks, they usually point it out that they are nitpicks. But, it's all mostly played for laugh and to fill up run time.
She so real for that
Hate-watch IS ridiculous.
Bruh, it is 2023 (not for much longer) and this video and her point here will stand firm forever. I miss when the internet was new and we were all aware of ourselves enough to know that if we didn't like something, we could simply not partake. I feel like everyone having a platform to speak was a bad idea. Now everyone's take is supposed to be respected and heard when it really boils down to "I'm conically online and I have to share my feelings on how much I hate this because we don't go outside anymore" like no one wants to be in charge of themselves anymore. They wanna be in charge of everyone else. The fact people police FICTION so hard is pathetic indeed
She's right There are a lot of people who make a big deal out of the smallest things
I will admit I’ve had this problem before with a certain successful animator. While I am indeed a fan of his and even aspire to do what he does, over time I started to worry his level of talent was unattainable. So I started looking for any animation flaws I could find whenever he released a new video just so I could remind myself that he’s human too and not some otherworldly being with perfect, unreachable animating skills.
that's like 90% of what attention she gets too because of helluvaboss people seemed to think that she can't write or her humor is bad but people completely ignored "written by vivziepop AND brandon rogers" at the end of every episode, the jokes became repetitive because of brandon's humor vs adult comedy, everyone knows he makes offensive jokes but that's not just being put on youtube it's actually a story that's connected to another actual show that isn't posted on youtube, it could have affected the way hazbin was percepted or may not have been accepted, and people love to bring up her drama from years ago out of contexts and fill up the context w random shit. half my life i watched vivziepop and rooted for her dreams to come true only for ppl to shut her down when so many other professional artists and animators do the same or have had the same drama, and when hazbin got leaked ppl said angel's ep 4 episode was romanticizing abuse and SA WHICH IS SO GROSS to say ppl do that, say ppl's works support shit like that, i am a victim of sa and if i worked 4 years on a episode and show, inputting my feeling into a character and when my hard work gets LEAKED then ppl say IM ROMANTICIZING MY TRAUMA AND VENT i'd be miserable and depressed bc nobody cares to listen to actual victims, they just use victims as a way to argue.
Except when it’s towards her lol
Every caseoh fan ever
This one boutta be particularly relevant in a bit
To be fair she's apparently known for being toxic at her workplace.
False
I agree, but I also think it's annoying when someone refuses to acknowledge any criticism about a show they love. It is stupid to watch something you don't like just to criticize it, but it's also stupid to get mad and insult someone for saying something negative about a show you love. Nothing is perfect. So every show will have its flaws. I think it's great when you know the flaws within the show, but you still love it for what it is. My favorite show, I will admit the second season was a mess, but I still love the show because of the characters. I don't have to love everything about a show to love the show.
Okay, now I'm curious: what was your favorite show with the messy second season?
@@bronwenlaporte You made the mistake of asking me that question. Now I'm going to go on a rant.
Okay, so I'm big into cartoons. I decided that my favorite show is Milo Murphy's Law. You can stop reading here if that's all you care about.
I love this show because it plays on the saying Murphy's Law which means "If anything can go wrong, will go wrong." The main character is cursed with bad luck. He's super positive about it and learns to overcome his bad luck. But, my favorite part of the show was the B plot involving time travel! I'm a sucker for time travel stories.
What happened to Season 2? Well, the creators of Milo Murphy's Law also created Phineas and Ferb. So Disney came up with the brilliant idea of added a character from Phineas and Ferb, Doofenshmirtz, to Milo Murphy's Law to try to get more views. At first I thought that idea was interesting. But they pretty much made him a main character! He pretty much became the new B plot of the show. He was in more episodes in season 2 than my favorite characters! Do you know how weird it is to have a show you love slowly get invaded by a more popular show for a whole season? Oh also, no more time travel in season 2, boooo.
Even though there are other bad things I can say about this show, to me the positive outweighs the negative. I'm never going to blindly love a show. I have a critical eye. I like looking at everything and picking out the things I love and the things I don't. But I can appreciate this show for what it is. Even with all its flaws.
And I can't get over the fact that they had an episode in season 1 about one of the time travelers dying over and over again while the other time traveler goes back in time to save him. I love it! I can't believe they got away with that in a show meant for kids.
That's kinda how I feel in my creative writing classes when students bring up tropes and how we shouldn't do tropes. We have thousands of years worth of stories, it's impossible to NOT do tropes, and not all tropes are bad!
On one hand I get it, but on another, hatewatching shit is p fun. My best friend and I hate-watched all of that god awful Highschool dxd and ragging on it was a blast.
I was going to say "this aged like milk" but those are just allegations
I think what they mean is when people take concepts like Cinema-Sins and take it way too far. They put too much emphasis on things and take it too seriously, instead of playing it up for comedy: because there is definitely a difference.
You can make jokes about flaws in things and play up the nit-picking for comedy's sake, but still really enjoy a show and find it entertaining. I think we can all appreciate that kind of humor. I think we all can relate to watching a series that's kind of "trash" or something that we can see is very flawed or can be flawed, and still finding entertainment out of it. It's basically junk food for our brain, as we love it and it's fine.
What isn't fun is when someone takes themself and the series they are scrutinizing **way too serious**, to the point where they are just coming off as someone who is being an ass and hating the show. I think a majority of people can agree that they don't like having 'negative nancies' running around them when they are trying to enjoy something; no matter how "trashy" it is.
THANK YOU, Vivziepop... I agree with this so much.
Always remember that "hate watching" something, still counts as watching it
I agree with her. You can critique , but you shouldn't hate watch you know. Her work does have some flaws like overall pacing and certain plots , but it's mostly enjoyable. If you hate watch ANY content that isn't really deserving of the hate ( like some sort of bootleg finding Nemo movie) then don't watch it. You just give views to the product you don't like. Like I said Critism ( even if harsh) is valid.
Imma add something here because I'm getting some less than thought out replies , YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE HER OR HER WORK. I'm saying if you get no enjoyment , like you can't even laugh at the work the why watch it? I'm saying if you have no valid critism to give on your UA-cam channel or in the comments , why watch it? If you are on your couch genuinely mad , just angry , and all you have to say is "this fucking blows" and you're just absolutely miserable , why are you watching it? Dislike her work all you want but don't stress yourself out in the process lmao
I agreed, her work has flaws
Actually, I disagree tbh. Positivity is not positivity without negativity. You need to find what you like to know what you dislike, and saying "i dislike this because of these reasons" (whether ironically or unironically) without making it personal never hurt anyone. Saberspark, for example, makes a whole bunch of videos on bootleg Christian animation making fun of it (since most of the companies who make it are just in it for the money), but he does give credit where credit is due.
Again, criticism, yes, even satirical, is still criticism, and if a creator you can't realize people's intentions and act accordingly, you shouldn't be a widespread creator. You can't have the world protecting you from negative, harsh opinions, because then you're going to sit there and go "why does nobody like my work?" without any response, either harsh, satirical, or constructive.
To know what works, you need to know what doesn't work, even if that means getting a bit butthurt.
@@DabroodThompson It not only subtly harms the person in question by making them jaded, but also makes them think that what they have to say about the media in question is so important that they have the right to constantly harass fans of said media with how much they hate it
Like you literally can’t appeal anything nowadays without some random asshole coming in to trash on it and hurl all sorts of insults at its creators
Additionally, hate watching shows that push genuinely harmful and bigoted narratives just gives them more financial support and shows the producers that people still want to see it, which will cause them to make more of it which will cause it to spread it’s perverted sentimentalities even further
I have to disagree with the premise of this vehemently. Some of my best memories with my brother were us both being drunk as a skunk watching something we both hated and ripping it to shreds. People who say hate watching is bad are lying to themselves and everyone else.
You can still be criticizing if you really don't like something or hate it, hating something in this is literally just something bothering you so much. There's levels of mood you can have while criticizing.
Well, that’s funny I got recommended to a cinema sins on helluva boss
I feel like that Garfield in the corner when Monday rolls around.
While I don't agree sith her completely I get where she's coming from....just...there is a thing called "constructive criticism" but some people nitpick and it get a little frustrating...tho I completely agree that you can watch a show even tho you see all the flaws...I do see some stuff that's wrong with this show or my all time favorite movie but they will never become anything less than favorites...and I think y'all can agree...
Shes right, hatewatching is annoying and useless
2 years later and it's still show up in peoples recommended videos without context lol
this is exactly why i can’t get my friends to like death grips lmao
You did this to test the unshown dislike count, didn't you?
This aged well.