i never understand why song writers never just sell these "poetry collections" as an Unfinished Songs Collection. like it solves the issue of the "poems" being a bit shit/analysed the way poetry is, and selling them as unfinished to start with means that the artist won't feel like they have to "finish" the piece to make it a complete poem. Plus, I feel like a fan of the musician is more likely to be excited to read lyrics/songs that never were over poetry.
I agree 1000%. I feel like if singer-songwriters released an unfinished drafts/unpublished songs/demo book instead of forcing poetry, it would bode way better with their fans. Having a huge fanbase like hers, we would have eaten that up as it's refreshing to see the creative process and ideas that were being entertained but not finished.
yeah exactly. it's nice for the fans to see what got left on the cutting room floor and it just manages the reader's expectations. if you aren't expecting polished poetry you won't be mad that you didn't get it.
Right? Post unfinished songs on their social media and ask the audience to critique or add to it. That would be great clicks and engagement for the creator and fun for the fans to feel involved. The pay wall for these published books is really what Rachel criticizes the most. She's only harsh when they sell lazy work to their fans based on nothing but their name
This is a bit like what Jarvis Cocker's book did, though it also contained lyrics for completed Pulp and solo songs. It was sold as "Selected Lyrics by Jarvis Cocker" instead of trying to pass them off as poetry when they weren't written as such.
23:25 As an inspiring songwriter AND poet I can absolutely say that I find it easier to write poems because it comes very comfortable with my style of writing; BUT I write in Spanish and I think it’s so much easier to write songs in English and poems in my native language bc of the musicality in the words. Songs in Spanish when it comes to being “profound” or talking about big feelings are so much harder to convey that poems. I think it’s the format too, honestly hispanic poetry it’s sooooooo sentimental and talks so much about our struggles that it may be another point why it’s easier maybe bc of the references we have? Idk, this comment it’s all over the place but yeah, English isn’t my native language. Edit: And I do think songs are a “form” of poetry but the thing is that the instrumentals tell a story too.
I’m also aspiring to be a songwriter and poet and I personally feel that poems are easier to write because they require less structure. Songs lyrics (usually) need to have a cohesive melody and consistent rhythm whilst still being catchy and then people start looking at the words. I find that I hone in on lyricism too much and all the other parts fall short. Poetry is far more lax in its rules.
These poems read distinctly like spontaneously written journal entries. I love the poems you pull up for comparison though. I hadnt come across the one with the lillies before. Please keep making more poetry content- you have a talent for analysis and your videos are a joy to watch. 🖤
Her description of why she chose to write poems instead of songs doesn’t sound like she is saying she gave up on these as songs so called them poetry, it sounds like she felt that the idea and structure she wanted for the ideas would work better as poetry. I think by reading it with a negative connotation instead of a neutral one you primed yourself, and your audience to view her shortcomings as her being ‘lazy’ or ‘not trying’ instead of being new to the medium and still learning what makes a good poem.
i felt this way too lol. it doesn’t even sound like these are straight up song lyrics that just got thrown into a book. they wouldn’t make sense in that way. it’s obvious she did rework the material to be more fitting in a poetry style. i am by no means an expert, and i don’t even read poetry, but i can read between the lines still.
I'll be perfectly honest I haven't watched the whole video. I got her poetry book for myself for Christmas. And ive been listening to marina for awhile. Probably close to 10 years so I'm super bias. But you always do such a great job at you poetry reviews I'm sure you had a lot of great points, and do have a lot of great points. I liked her poetry collection, I'm by no means super into poetry. And while I could tell it wasn't perfect. I appreciate it seemed like she tried. More so then like milk and honey, or Gabbie where its just like a tumbler post in a poem. Also I thought her poetry was definitely something I would expect from her. From listening to a lot of her music. I appreciated some of the raw and honest language in places. I really liked Land of Limbs. She's definitely has talent especially in her music. I overall liked the collection, I am happy I spent money on it. And I hope she improves in her work overtime and releases more. I do agree it definitely wasn't riot girl, female empowerment. This poetry book seems in theme with Electra Heart. Maybe more reflecting on the sadness, and trauma of her late teens and early 20s. Not in a self reflective way. But in the motions, she reflected her headspace at the time. Which is the personal vibe I got.
A bit of correction: Aspartame is safe. It'll took over 50 cans of Diet Coke everyday just to get elevated chance of cancer. You have to pretty much snort straight aspartame for it to be even potentially carcinogenic (not actual carcinogen, just maybe). Fun fact: aspartame have about the same caloric density as sugar, but since it's 1000x sweeter, you don't need much to make it unbearably sweet.
13:29 as a fan, it def was her vibe throughout all her albums is her fighting for and against the convictions of sexuality and how she presents herself as a pop-indie artist, but at the same time... Her work should be standalone so regular people can apperciate it without needed context. She has that disorder which blends her senses, is greek-british and also ended up working with dr.luke i believe, so her view of these conservative background to almost selling out is a theme that plays on. FROOT is definitely is all about her experience getting older and also still wanting to be sexy and loved as a beautiful women. Shampain single, electra heart album... Idk i feel like her whole aura has evn about dealing with the limitations and extreme highs of being a sexualized women in this world...lots of song with relationships. Ill have to read her poetry, but coming at it with my science degrees ain't as insightful as your critique as a poetry writer and expert.
I just bought The Book. I'd seen it around, and knowing it's legitimate and promoted by you made me get it. It looks a lot like "How to invent everything" by Ryan North. I'm very excited to get it.
I would love an hour long video of Rachel reading poems she really likes and like nothing else lol. I feel like whenever Rachel gives an example of a good poem, I discover a new favourite.
Have you listened to Marina’s last album Ancient Dreams In a Modern Land? I highly recommend it, she goes back to writing most of the material herself & there’s a lot more interiority to it like her first record.
I missed the poetry reviews so much, even though I write in Spanish my poems have actually improved so much with your analysis and constructive criticism.
I liked it! But all poetry is subjective. There’s plenty of poems from supposed “master poets” that I didn’t like which is totally valid. So if you like it great! If you don’t, great!
The people who make "The Book" need to make different ads. I see them all the time on youtube and they have the same energy as all the doomsday prepper patriot MRE's and stuff. I thought, gee it would be cool if a book like that existed but the ad gave tinfoil hat club vibes. Maybe it's just because i live in the southern US, so I get a lot of doomsday prepper ads and maybe it's just me, but I would never have seriously considered it if not for this recommendation.
I very much got the its a drop shipping scam vibes. Looking back on it, it's mostly because the excited unboxing scenes. Like where did this book come from? Why do so many people have it? Then I skip the add.
I like a few of Marina's songs, namely: 'Oh No!', 'Purge The Poison', 'Lies' and the acoustic version of 'Hollywood'. Without having read it, so just reacting to your video, there are questions to what she was trying to do with this book: Is it just a depository for her rejected song ideas? It is a memoir with a smattering of poetic devices? Or is it a serious attempt to write a poetry collection? I agree it's definitely a bit better than Rupi Kaur and Gabbie Hanna's works.
I dont think it's terrible, she may not be the best but i listen to her and love her music quite a bit. Not a superfan either but i do like her! And she seems like a good person as well. Im interested what you think of this book
My knowledge of Marina (& the Diamonds) only extends to her tracks that were remixed - Primadonna, I Am Not A Robot, Radioactive - and her work with Clean Bandit - Baby. Very basic, but she does have a good singing voice. Her lyrical skills... are Hit n Miss to me.
I loveee Marina so I like the book a lot as a curious fan as it is autobiographical. As a poetry writer, however, it's definitely lacking the majority of poetry conventions that make a poem a *poem* you know? I am all for breaking the rules, creating your own, etc. but these must be done with a purpose and with consistency. I personally feel like this book had a lot of potential and was most likely pressured by management to get this out ASAP, but that pressure (whether internal or external) made it even more difficult for her to hone this as a "passion project." I'm just a little disappointed because I think her lyricism is often crafty and clever, and it would have been good for her to include more of those elements in this book. Anyway ty for this video; I always appreciate your nuanced and thorough critiques ✨
16:23 i dont think thats what she meant, i think she just meant the form was better as a poem? I dont think she meant that they were literally just scrapped songs. I kept listening to you talking about it and I really dont think thats what she said at all
I got the opposite. I understood it as "I couldn't make these work as songs so I decided they should be poetry instead". It's literally recycling things that didn't really do well to make money. Hell artists do it all the time with demos they never realease. They don't know how to finish a song so they call it a demo and release it as is. Which isn't wrong or bad as they at least don't claim it is a finished refined piece. Which is kind of the issue here. She doesn't claim these are scrapped songs that didn't work out or she couldn't make them work out as songs. But instead she just slapped a label of them being poems in order to sell it as a whole new different work than maybe a demo nobody would've cared about. A similar thing would be just making a drawing and it turning out bad or never finish it, just to claim it was meant to look like that from the start. Rather than admit it didn't work because it wasn't good for anything. Or me write a book, then add some random scenario and then claim it was meant from the start just to make the product seem done and professional (I did it once in a story and I don't think it was good but I was less than 18 when I wrote that).
@@nikitatavernitilitvynova The thing is, I'm pretty sure all the things you describe are common practice. No author will ever tell you that a particular scene was added last minute, everyone will always claim that it was planned from the start. Many artists post unfinished drawings and simply don't label them as such, most of the time, nobody can tell (And I admit I do it too. When I can't make a background work or something like that, I scrap it, throw in some basic shapes and colours instead, and then I claim that it's supposed to be without a realistic background.). I honestly don't think it's bad to recycle things, provided they actually work fine that way. Sometimes you write a poem and realise that it doesn't work but that it works as a song. Sometimes you write a song and then you realise it literally cannot be played and sounds like shit but you read it aloud and go "Hey, that could make a fine poem." Sometimes you draw background and realise the drawing is better without it. There's nothing wrong with that imho and I don't think anyone is entitled to knowing that your art was originally supposed to be different.
@monochromedream-eatingbaku I don't know maybe it's the perfectionist in me. I recently saw a painting I made last year and although it looks good, I'd never claim the rough big brush strokes were done on purpose but rather that I couldn't paint so small and delicately. But maybe that's my autism making me too honest. I personally find it a bit dishonest because people are lead into thinking it was totally intentional as if they were this master genious when it's at most mediocre work. I was taught to do that for example in graphics design class at uni. To sell your work well. Because a not so good job that is sold well, has far more potential to be sold for lots of money than an actual good and amazing job being sold poorly. I don't know I find it disingenuous and a bit of a lie.
Honestly, the only sponsored thing I'd ever buy. I don't think it's available in my country and even if it was, a book like this is going to be hella expensive to get shipped. Still, this is possibly the only sponsored thing I'd ever buy. Seems just the perfect thing for my voracious hunger for knowledge.
It’s funny you said that about Ellie Goulding because I’m pretty sure on Froot Marina wrote essentially a diss track against her “better than that” I believe is the one. They seemed to have moved around in the same British singer scene and apparently did not get along…
Perhaps a contributing factor to why you fell out of love with her music is because you changed as a person, and it no longer spoke to you in the same way it did when you were younger? I can recall songs and albums that really resonated with me back when I was at university That don't anymore. In saying that, I think that her recent project Ancient Dreams in a Modern Land has some fun stuff on there and I like it overall. She has been doing the feminist thing for a while now to be fair, though I can't speak to how genuine it is
I just think it would more interesting if she wrote an autobiography of her life in a poetic way. I don’t know. Those poems really looks like unfineshed lyrics for song.
I remember talking to some people and they were like "i love marina" wnd i was like me too i adore the family jewels! And they were like ew.... No i like froot... And it was like oh...? I love some of her newest album and her first 2 but havent listened to froot or love+ fear, i think shes back embracing a wierd aand uniqueness from the family jewels.
I love poetry and I think the beauty of it is showing stuff and doing it in a way where anyone can put their own meaning to it , she is way too literal where it leaves no room for interpretation , it’s to a point where it feels like you’re just reading a journal not a poem
I didn't know who MARINA was, and i never listened to her music. I didn't think her poetry was bad and i though the imagery was wonderful but it felt like she lost her true creativity that made her vulnerable and i hope she could learn to have that creativity again if she decides to do another poetry book. To me, the poems in the book was more better than Drake's "poem."
1:06:53 "if i want good lyrics, ill read a poem" isnt that exactly what you didnt like about marina's intro? Switching the two out and not appreciating them as seperate art forms?
She was pretty tired at this point in the video, but I think what she was trying to say was that in her opinion a song needs to be appreciated as a marriage of music and lyrics and that it’s not a good song if only the lyrics are good.
Quite the opposite. I said if I want *just* good lyrics. I’m saying from a song, I also want all the other aspects of music to be good. If I only want the bits of good poetry then I’ll just read poetry but if I want the bits of good linguistics and rhythm and music and everything else then I’ll choose a song I like. I’m literally saying that I don’t just like a song for one part of it but for how it all comes together as a whole piece of art. When people assume I’ll like a song because maybe the musics work as good “poetry”, it misunderstands what both good poetry it and what good music is. If I want the bits that people assume I want, I’ll pick a poem to listen to, but with music I want a whole different package so I’m looking for other things. I’m the one separating the art forms, not the people telling me to listen to stuff just because they like the lyrics.
Personally quite enjoy Marina's Love + Fear album and Electra Heart. As well as Froot. But haven't listened to anything past Love+Fear. Interested to watch the video.
28:35 That's really interesting, I tend to capitalize words and phrases in kind of the opposite way, like they're proper nouns, to sort of delegitimize them
i think that these work more as essays, some kind of confessions rather than Poems Maybe the reviews would be Kinder if it wasnt marketed as Poems but rather a stream of consciousness type essays?
Hi Rachel, I find some parts of this video hard to listen to as your mic was buzzing here and there, in the early first reactions of the book after you finished it. Your mic in your usual section (more in depth discussion of the book) seems fine though...
The thing to me, is I really enjoy a great deal of the Marina's music and lyrics, I feel she could have released this as lyrics that didn't quite make it into a song and her fans would have responded well to that. I am obsessed with King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard and they often do release demos and other things that haven't quite made it into a song (though these are usually musical bits, not lyrical), sometimes those bits do make it into a song later down the line.
I have no idea who Pamela August Russell is but her "B is for Bad Poetry" (2009) is a good read. Short, funny, sad, brilliant stuff. It's been on my shelf for years. Excerpt: "Schadenfreude Encore" I watched you fall in love again and couldn't help but laugh.
Around 16:00 , could it be more akin to a YT video becoming second-channel material or a short? Are we maybe ascribing more value to her songs than she values them?
The discussion and sponsor made me think of two books on my tbr, "Rebel Girl" by Kathleen Hanna (musician memior), and "How to invent evrrything: a survival guide for the stranded time traveller" by Ryan North.
I’d never heard of The Book, but I got an ad for it at the beginning of this video, then you announced they were your sponsor 😂 I guess the algorithm’s working!
Already working on a script - I’ve got another finished script to film in the meantime and the Gaiman one is half done so should be out in the next 2 weeks.
FROOT is her best work. She wrote those songs and produced them with like one other person or something. Anyway, the poem about hollywood reads more like... a vignette? I liked it, but not quite as a poem.
Lol i have pretty much the same opinions on marina's music career as you, i just wish she had released a mv for bugglebum bitch bcs all her mvs from that era were just so fun conceptually
out of her recent music my fav song by far is “goodbye” which came out like 3 years ago so maybe give that a go. but other than that i haven’t connected with her more recent music either
i feel like these celebrities rarely read classic poetry i don’t mean it has to be like classic by any means, i just mean it seems like they’d prefer to write essays insteed…? or in marina’s case, it seems like these were journals turned into song rejects turned into a book :/
I just started the video but I agree. I loved her first album, really loved her second. When Froot came out, I liked it but noticed I listened to it way less. A good portion I found pretty boring. I kept up with her later work but the first two albums stay my favorites by far.
Girl, who are you talking about? What are those haters? I adore it. By no means we shoud judge, even a celebrity, for their wish to openly self-express in a comfortable for them way.
It’s boring and shows no real talent for poetry. There’s no substance. It’s the same as every other “poetry” book written like this. It’s extremely surface level, which is something I’ve noticed about her in recent years. There’s an extreme level of performance when it comes to her values and words. It just feels forced and fake.
Have you watched the video? There are many examples of her poems listed and analyzed that absolutely have a deeper meaning and show that she does have potential.
@0:26:00 Rachel: "I'm trying to keep this as concise as possible which is not an easy thing for me. It's a skill I'm working on. " Me, after watching her videos get longer and longer through the years 🤔
I can’t believe you didn’t like FROOT. That’s her best album and best written imo. I wish you would at least have went more in depth that Marina is an incredibly talented songwriter.
Lovely video .constructive criticism: a little thing. Could you have a think about how much you tap, spin, wiggle etc, the book u r discussing. It's distracting and anxiety making. The Ultimate Guide... book ur promoting is like analogue internet. 😂 very beautiful.
She might just have ADHD though lol. As someone with it, I tend to do the same unless if I take out something like a fidget cube. So maybe her videos just aren't for you if it physically (and mentally) affects you that much? She can't just stop her (possible) ADHD habits lmao.
I thinl you and felix (PewDiePie) could have best friends. I sub to many so i just noticed similarities lol. trying new things, actually smart, knowledgeble - love to explore good looking almost same age and selfharming behaviour left behind
I uh...you can just criticize something and say that it's bad or wish it was better and it does not have anything to do with misogyny. I criticize plenty of books written by men, does that make me a misandrist? On the other side, if I criticize work written by a woman does that automatically make me a misogynist? No, I'm looking at the text and reacting to it. That's what she's doing here too, it's not that deep. Saying oh this is just motivated by misogyny or whatever is just...a way to try to wave off valid criticism that someone has for a piece of art and trying to shut down conversation.
@@infinitecurlieNot to mention that it's utterly lazy thinking. A refusal to look or think beyond the superficial and a rejection of nuance. So absurd.
ahhhh i hate the title. oh i HATE it. the riot grrl ziney look is cute but that is a *poor* title. thats like... chatgpt, what is should i call my girlboss poetry book? eta of *course* there's tumbrised ED content, of *course* there is. that felt *very* glamourising.
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I got one, using your code! Thanks.
Just ordered one with 10% off ($20 AuD). I think this would be far more useful to my nephews than a Good News Bible!
Just ordered one! This will be the perfect gift for my mom!
i never understand why song writers never just sell these "poetry collections" as an Unfinished Songs Collection. like it solves the issue of the "poems" being a bit shit/analysed the way poetry is, and selling them as unfinished to start with means that the artist won't feel like they have to "finish" the piece to make it a complete poem. Plus, I feel like a fan of the musician is more likely to be excited to read lyrics/songs that never were over poetry.
I agree 1000%. I feel like if singer-songwriters released an unfinished drafts/unpublished songs/demo book instead of forcing poetry, it would bode way better with their fans. Having a huge fanbase like hers, we would have eaten that up as it's refreshing to see the creative process and ideas that were being entertained but not finished.
yeah exactly. it's nice for the fans to see what got left on the cutting room floor and it just manages the reader's expectations. if you aren't expecting polished poetry you won't be mad that you didn't get it.
Right? Post unfinished songs on their social media and ask the audience to critique or add to it. That would be great clicks and engagement for the creator and fun for the fans to feel involved. The pay wall for these published books is really what Rachel criticizes the most. She's only harsh when they sell lazy work to their fans based on nothing but their name
This is a bit like what Jarvis Cocker's book did, though it also contained lyrics for completed Pulp and solo songs. It was sold as "Selected Lyrics by Jarvis Cocker" instead of trying to pass them off as poetry when they weren't written as such.
Ego of the artists tbh who think their songwriting is poetry, and also maybe a part of publishers trying to market the work?
When you talk about it seeming more indie and less produced- in 2022 she literally left her major label and started her own
23:25 As an inspiring songwriter AND poet I can absolutely say that I find it easier to write poems because it comes very comfortable with my style of writing; BUT I write in Spanish and I think it’s so much easier to write songs in English and poems in my native language bc of the musicality in the words. Songs in Spanish when it comes to being “profound” or talking about big feelings are so much harder to convey that poems. I think it’s the format too, honestly hispanic poetry it’s sooooooo sentimental and talks so much about our struggles that it may be another point why it’s easier maybe bc of the references we have? Idk, this comment it’s all over the place but yeah, English isn’t my native language.
Edit: And I do think songs are a “form” of poetry but the thing is that the instrumentals tell a story too.
I’m also aspiring to be a songwriter and poet and I personally feel that poems are easier to write because they require less structure. Songs lyrics (usually) need to have a cohesive melody and consistent rhythm whilst still being catchy and then people start looking at the words. I find that I hone in on lyricism too much and all the other parts fall short. Poetry is far more lax in its rules.
These poems read distinctly like spontaneously written journal entries. I love the poems you pull up for comparison though. I hadnt come across the one with the lillies before. Please keep making more poetry content- you have a talent for analysis and your videos are a joy to watch. 🖤
Her description of why she chose to write poems instead of songs doesn’t sound like she is saying she gave up on these as songs so called them poetry, it sounds like she felt that the idea and structure she wanted for the ideas would work better as poetry. I think by reading it with a negative connotation instead of a neutral one you primed yourself, and your audience to view her shortcomings as her being ‘lazy’ or ‘not trying’ instead of being new to the medium and still learning what makes a good poem.
i felt this way too lol. it doesn’t even sound like these are straight up song lyrics that just got thrown into a book. they wouldn’t make sense in that way. it’s obvious she did rework the material to be more fitting in a poetry style. i am by no means an expert, and i don’t even read poetry, but i can read between the lines still.
I'll be perfectly honest I haven't watched the whole video. I got her poetry book for myself for Christmas. And ive been listening to marina for awhile. Probably close to 10 years so I'm super bias. But you always do such a great job at you poetry reviews I'm sure you had a lot of great points, and do have a lot of great points.
I liked her poetry collection, I'm by no means super into poetry. And while I could tell it wasn't perfect. I appreciate it seemed like she tried. More so then like milk and honey, or Gabbie where its just like a tumbler post in a poem. Also I thought her poetry was definitely something I would expect from her. From listening to a lot of her music. I appreciated some of the raw and honest language in places. I really liked Land of Limbs. She's definitely has talent especially in her music. I overall liked the collection, I am happy I spent money on it. And I hope she improves in her work overtime and releases more.
I do agree it definitely wasn't riot girl, female empowerment. This poetry book seems in theme with Electra Heart. Maybe more reflecting on the sadness, and trauma of her late teens and early 20s. Not in a self reflective way. But in the motions, she reflected her headspace at the time. Which is the personal vibe I got.
A bit of correction: Aspartame is safe. It'll took over 50 cans of Diet Coke everyday just to get elevated chance of cancer. You have to pretty much snort straight aspartame for it to be even potentially carcinogenic (not actual carcinogen, just maybe).
Fun fact: aspartame have about the same caloric density as sugar, but since it's 1000x sweeter, you don't need much to make it unbearably sweet.
13:29 as a fan, it def was her vibe throughout all her albums is her fighting for and against the convictions of sexuality and how she presents herself as a pop-indie artist, but at the same time... Her work should be standalone so regular people can apperciate it without needed context.
She has that disorder which blends her senses, is greek-british and also ended up working with dr.luke i believe, so her view of these conservative background to almost selling out is a theme that plays on.
FROOT is definitely is all about her experience getting older and also still wanting to be sexy and loved as a beautiful women.
Shampain single, electra heart album... Idk i feel like her whole aura has evn about dealing with the limitations and extreme highs of being a sexualized women in this world...lots of song with relationships.
Ill have to read her poetry, but coming at it with my science degrees ain't as insightful as your critique as a poetry writer and expert.
She's back with a poetry video!! You're the reason I got more into poetry and I've really looked forward to another poetry video! So excited!
I just bought The Book. I'd seen it around, and knowing it's legitimate and promoted by you made me get it. It looks a lot like "How to invent everything" by Ryan North. I'm very excited to get it.
I would love an hour long video of Rachel reading poems she really likes and like nothing else lol. I feel like whenever Rachel gives an example of a good poem, I discover a new favourite.
Please do a poetry analysis video of self published collections that u liked
Have you listened to Marina’s last album Ancient Dreams In a Modern Land? I highly recommend it, she goes back to writing most of the material herself & there’s a lot more interiority to it like her first record.
I missed the poetry reviews so much, even though I write in Spanish my poems have actually improved so much with your analysis and constructive criticism.
Ditto. They are my fav content from her.
I liked it! But all poetry is subjective. There’s plenty of poems from supposed “master poets” that I didn’t like which is totally valid. So if you like it great! If you don’t, great!
The people who make "The Book" need to make different ads. I see them all the time on youtube and they have the same energy as all the doomsday prepper patriot MRE's and stuff. I thought, gee it would be cool if a book like that existed but the ad gave tinfoil hat club vibes. Maybe it's just because i live in the southern US, so I get a lot of doomsday prepper ads and maybe it's just me, but I would never have seriously considered it if not for this recommendation.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one put off by The Book's marketing. All the ads I saw gave me MLM/woo woo pseudointellectual wellness scam vibes 😂
I very much got the its a drop shipping scam vibes. Looking back on it, it's mostly because the excited unboxing scenes. Like where did this book come from? Why do so many people have it? Then I skip the add.
I like a few of Marina's songs, namely: 'Oh No!', 'Purge The Poison', 'Lies' and the acoustic version of 'Hollywood'. Without having read it, so just reacting to your video, there are questions to what she was trying to do with this book: Is it just a depository for her rejected song ideas? It is a memoir with a smattering of poetic devices? Or is it a serious attempt to write a poetry collection? I agree it's definitely a bit better than Rupi Kaur and Gabbie Hanna's works.
I dont think it's terrible, she may not be the best but i listen to her and love her music quite a bit. Not a superfan either but i do like her! And she seems like a good person as well. Im interested what you think of this book
My knowledge of Marina (& the Diamonds) only extends to her tracks that were remixed - Primadonna, I Am Not A Robot, Radioactive - and her work with Clean Bandit - Baby. Very basic, but she does have a good singing voice. Her lyrical skills... are Hit n Miss to me.
@@QJ89 to be fair, those are some of the worst songs oyu could've picked. They're not at all representative of her music :D
According to UA-cam metrics I was in the top 5% of listeners a year ago. Found it funny and sad
Matches is one of my favorite poems in Reflections On Healing. I also really love the beach landscape photograph following it
Thank you!!
Man’s World is a beautiful example of her newer work, especially with the context of the music video
26:18 Beginning of actual poetry analysis
I loveee Marina so I like the book a lot as a curious fan as it is autobiographical. As a poetry writer, however, it's definitely lacking the majority of poetry conventions that make a poem a *poem* you know? I am all for breaking the rules, creating your own, etc. but these must be done with a purpose and with consistency. I personally feel like this book had a lot of potential and was most likely pressured by management to get this out ASAP, but that pressure (whether internal or external) made it even more difficult for her to hone this as a "passion project." I'm just a little disappointed because I think her lyricism is often crafty and clever, and it would have been good for her to include more of those elements in this book. Anyway ty for this video; I always appreciate your nuanced and thorough critiques ✨
16:23 i dont think thats what she meant, i think she just meant the form was better as a poem? I dont think she meant that they were literally just scrapped songs. I kept listening to you talking about it and I really dont think thats what she said at all
I got the opposite. I understood it as "I couldn't make these work as songs so I decided they should be poetry instead". It's literally recycling things that didn't really do well to make money. Hell artists do it all the time with demos they never realease. They don't know how to finish a song so they call it a demo and release it as is. Which isn't wrong or bad as they at least don't claim it is a finished refined piece. Which is kind of the issue here. She doesn't claim these are scrapped songs that didn't work out or she couldn't make them work out as songs. But instead she just slapped a label of them being poems in order to sell it as a whole new different work than maybe a demo nobody would've cared about.
A similar thing would be just making a drawing and it turning out bad or never finish it, just to claim it was meant to look like that from the start. Rather than admit it didn't work because it wasn't good for anything. Or me write a book, then add some random scenario and then claim it was meant from the start just to make the product seem done and professional (I did it once in a story and I don't think it was good but I was less than 18 when I wrote that).
@@nikitatavernitilitvynova The thing is, I'm pretty sure all the things you describe are common practice. No author will ever tell you that a particular scene was added last minute, everyone will always claim that it was planned from the start. Many artists post unfinished drawings and simply don't label them as such, most of the time, nobody can tell (And I admit I do it too. When I can't make a background work or something like that, I scrap it, throw in some basic shapes and colours instead, and then I claim that it's supposed to be without a realistic background.). I honestly don't think it's bad to recycle things, provided they actually work fine that way. Sometimes you write a poem and realise that it doesn't work but that it works as a song. Sometimes you write a song and then you realise it literally cannot be played and sounds like shit but you read it aloud and go "Hey, that could make a fine poem." Sometimes you draw background and realise the drawing is better without it. There's nothing wrong with that imho and I don't think anyone is entitled to knowing that your art was originally supposed to be different.
@monochromedream-eatingbaku I don't know maybe it's the perfectionist in me. I recently saw a painting I made last year and although it looks good, I'd never claim the rough big brush strokes were done on purpose but rather that I couldn't paint so small and delicately. But maybe that's my autism making me too honest. I personally find it a bit dishonest because people are lead into thinking it was totally intentional as if they were this master genious when it's at most mediocre work. I was taught to do that for example in graphics design class at uni. To sell your work well. Because a not so good job that is sold well, has far more potential to be sold for lots of money than an actual good and amazing job being sold poorly. I don't know I find it disingenuous and a bit of a lie.
Commenting for engagement! Cant wait to listen to this when i get home from work!
Honestly, the only sponsored thing I'd ever buy. I don't think it's available in my country and even if it was, a book like this is going to be hella expensive to get shipped. Still, this is possibly the only sponsored thing I'd ever buy. Seems just the perfect thing for my voracious hunger for knowledge.
It’s funny you said that about Ellie Goulding because I’m pretty sure on Froot Marina wrote essentially a diss track against her “better than that” I believe is the one. They seemed to have moved around in the same British singer scene and apparently did not get along…
Didn't her ex literally cheat on her with Ellie Goulding??
Video idea: Doormat mom's book
Perhaps a contributing factor to why you fell out of love with her music is because you changed as a person, and it no longer spoke to you in the same way it did when you were younger? I can recall songs and albums that really resonated with me back when I was at university That don't anymore.
In saying that, I think that her recent project Ancient Dreams in a Modern Land has some fun stuff on there and I like it overall. She has been doing the feminist thing for a while now to be fair, though I can't speak to how genuine it is
I'm curious to know why people are questioning her authenticity. Why do people assume that she is disingenuous?
@@barbarafruffier4880most of the time by famous people (normally famous men lol) it's done for image reasons.
I just think it would more interesting if she wrote an autobiography of her life in a poetic way. I don’t know. Those poems really looks like unfineshed lyrics for song.
Maybe your right, her autobiography would totally be something interesting. I don't think it should be some kind of poem necessarily though
Yay for a new poetry video! You got me into poetry, and now I love it.
Omg I’ve never been so early to one of your uploads!! Love the poetry reviews, Rachel! Thank you :)
I remember talking to some people and they were like "i love marina" wnd i was like me too i adore the family jewels! And they were like ew.... No i like froot... And it was like oh...?
I love some of her newest album and her first 2 but havent listened to froot or love+ fear, i think shes back embracing a wierd aand uniqueness from the family jewels.
family jewels is my absolute favorite album of hers and my favorite album of all time, i can’t believe people dislike it?!
2:20 right but leave them wanting more is rule #4
The second one feels more like a micro story than a poem.
I love poetry and I think the beauty of it is showing stuff and doing it in a way where anyone can put their own meaning to it , she is way too literal where it leaves no room for interpretation , it’s to a point where it feels like you’re just reading a journal not a poem
I think she has a lot of talent too! I think she just needs more practice, as many writers do.
I didn't know who MARINA was, and i never listened to her music. I didn't think her poetry was bad and i though the imagery was wonderful but it felt like she lost her true creativity that made her vulnerable and i hope she could learn to have that creativity again if she decides to do another poetry book. To me, the poems in the book was more better than Drake's "poem."
cant wait to listen!!! excited as always! :)
1:06:53 "if i want good lyrics, ill read a poem" isnt that exactly what you didnt like about marina's intro? Switching the two out and not appreciating them as seperate art forms?
She was pretty tired at this point in the video, but I think what she was trying to say was that in her opinion a song needs to be appreciated as a marriage of music and lyrics and that it’s not a good song if only the lyrics are good.
Quite the opposite. I said if I want *just* good lyrics. I’m saying from a song, I also want all the other aspects of music to be good. If I only want the bits of good poetry then I’ll just read poetry but if I want the bits of good linguistics and rhythm and music and everything else then I’ll choose a song I like. I’m literally saying that I don’t just like a song for one part of it but for how it all comes together as a whole piece of art. When people assume I’ll like a song because maybe the musics work as good “poetry”, it misunderstands what both good poetry it and what good music is. If I want the bits that people assume I want, I’ll pick a poem to listen to, but with music I want a whole different package so I’m looking for other things. I’m the one separating the art forms, not the people telling me to listen to stuff just because they like the lyrics.
It's like how all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. All lyrics are poetry, but not all poetry is lyrics.
idk about her poetry but her songs were top notch!
Personally quite enjoy Marina's Love + Fear album and Electra Heart. As well as Froot. But haven't listened to anything past Love+Fear. Interested to watch the video.
I got The Book for my brother for Christmas and it’s gorgeous and he loved it kinda expensive but a good splurge gift!
28:35 That's really interesting, I tend to capitalize words and phrases in kind of the opposite way, like they're proper nouns, to sort of delegitimize them
Yay!!! Another poetry video by Rachel!!!!
Yay! I love the poetry reviews! I also love that little grumble pig! Kyra is the bestest staffy!
i think that these work more as essays, some kind of confessions rather than Poems
Maybe the reviews would be Kinder if it wasnt marketed as Poems but rather a stream of consciousness type essays?
Wow that last one is a showstopper. I had chills
I didnt even know marina had a poetry book
Hi Rachel, I find some parts of this video hard to listen to as your mic was buzzing here and there, in the early first reactions of the book after you finished it. Your mic in your usual section (more in depth discussion of the book) seems fine though...
The thing to me, is I really enjoy a great deal of the Marina's music and lyrics, I feel she could have released this as lyrics that didn't quite make it into a song and her fans would have responded well to that. I am obsessed with King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard and they often do release demos and other things that haven't quite made it into a song (though these are usually musical bits, not lyrical), sometimes those bits do make it into a song later down the line.
Girl, you seem to be glowing and I hope I am right. You deserve the world.
I have no idea who Pamela August Russell is but her "B is for Bad Poetry" (2009) is a good read. Short, funny, sad, brilliant stuff. It's been on my shelf for years.
Excerpt: "Schadenfreude Encore"
I watched you fall
in love again
and couldn't help
but laugh.
I'm actually so stoked for this video hahaha
Love the videos from first impression and onwards! It‘s very interessting to see your thoughts and opinions form.
Around 16:00 , could it be more akin to a YT video becoming second-channel material or a short? Are we maybe ascribing more value to her songs than she values them?
The discussion and sponsor made me think of two books on my tbr, "Rebel Girl" by Kathleen Hanna (musician memior), and "How to invent evrrything: a survival guide for the stranded time traveller" by Ryan North.
I'm gonna watch later today just dropping a like and a comment right at the start
I’d never heard of The Book, but I got an ad for it at the beginning of this video, then you announced they were your sponsor 😂 I guess the algorithm’s working!
Thank you for another video Rachel ❤️
Not Rachel saying *her* name like she's Voldemort
Love your poetry reviews!❤
Yay!! A poetry review video!!
Would you consider looking at the Neil Gaiman stuff?
Already working on a script - I’ve got another finished script to film in the meantime and the Gaiman one is half done so should be out in the next 2 weeks.
Video idea: Girl Defined's new book if you can get it without giving them money
FROOT is her best work. She wrote those songs and produced them with like one other person or something. Anyway, the poem about hollywood reads more like... a vignette? I liked it, but not quite as a poem.
would love to see a part 2
didn't like froot? JAIL
retweet
Well, I’ll go listen to Ellie Goulding‘s and Marinas first two albums again now. I LOVE those 🤩
i've been waiting for this one!
Lol i have pretty much the same opinions on marina's music career as you, i just wish she had released a mv for bugglebum bitch bcs all her mvs from that era were just so fun conceptually
Her poetry doesn’t sound half bad honestly. She definitely has some good one liners! They do sound a bit more like songs than poems though.
If you eat the world it implies that, about a day later, you will shit the world
out of her recent music my fav song by far is “goodbye” which came out like 3 years ago so maybe give that a go. but other than that i haven’t connected with her more recent music either
omg i love marina so i shall be watching this, even if i expect criticism lol im just happy to be here
Video idea: Bindi Marc's video "(S2E5) BIBLICAL WOMANHOOD & Self Control" | Christian • Women • Black • Homemaker"
i feel like these celebrities rarely read classic poetry
i don’t mean it has to be like classic by any means, i just mean it seems like they’d prefer to write essays insteed…? or in marina’s case, it seems like these were journals turned into song rejects turned into a book :/
So when I read this book I didn’t read it as a book of poetry but as if it were an Ellen Hopkins book as if it were written in free verse.
I just started the video but I agree. I loved her first album, really loved her second. When Froot came out, I liked it but noticed I listened to it way less. A good portion I found pretty boring. I kept up with her later work but the first two albums stay my favorites by far.
Girl, who are you talking about? What are those haters? I adore it. By no means we shoud judge, even a celebrity, for their wish to openly self-express in a comfortable for them way.
Love your channel rachel. You are stunning. You are always interesting
Great review 👍
It’s boring and shows no real talent for poetry. There’s no substance. It’s the same as every other “poetry” book written like this. It’s extremely surface level, which is something I’ve noticed about her in recent years. There’s an extreme level of performance when it comes to her values and words. It just feels forced and fake.
Have you watched the video? There are many examples of her poems listed and analyzed that absolutely have a deeper meaning and show that she does have potential.
Sometimes i wish i could see you critique viewers poems.
I LOVE marina !!! About to watch but need to say I think she ATE🤭
@0:26:00 Rachel: "I'm trying to keep this as concise as possible which is not an easy thing for me. It's a skill I'm working on. "
Me, after watching her videos get longer and longer through the years 🤔
For a good book review I'd love to see you look at Samantha Shannon's books!
Did someone say my name?
Im curious what you think of Geena Rocero's "Horse Barbie" ❤
I can’t believe you didn’t like FROOT. That’s her best album and best written imo. I wish you would at least have went more in depth that Marina is an incredibly talented songwriter.
I'm so happy about this one!
I enjoyed the book.
Video idea: "5 ways to be a biblical wife" by Vlad Savchuk
Lovely video .constructive criticism: a little thing. Could you have a think about how much you tap, spin, wiggle etc, the book u r discussing. It's distracting and anxiety making.
The Ultimate Guide... book ur promoting is like analogue internet. 😂 very beautiful.
She might just have ADHD though lol. As someone with it, I tend to do the same unless if I take out something like a fidget cube. So maybe her videos just aren't for you if it physically (and mentally) affects you that much? She can't just stop her (possible) ADHD habits lmao.
@@infinitecurlieShe is AuDHD.
Came back wrong barbie print!!
I thinl you and felix (PewDiePie) could have best friends. I sub to many so i just noticed similarities lol. trying new things, actually smart, knowledgeble - love to explore good looking almost same age and selfharming behaviour left behind
Poetry is subjective but I gotta say that most criticisms aimed towards women artists are motivated by misogyny, so… you know
I uh...you can just criticize something and say that it's bad or wish it was better and it does not have anything to do with misogyny. I criticize plenty of books written by men, does that make me a misandrist? On the other side, if I criticize work written by a woman does that automatically make me a misogynist? No, I'm looking at the text and reacting to it. That's what she's doing here too, it's not that deep.
Saying oh this is just motivated by misogyny or whatever is just...a way to try to wave off valid criticism that someone has for a piece of art and trying to shut down conversation.
@@infinitecurlieNot to mention that it's utterly lazy thinking. A refusal to look or think beyond the superficial and a rejection of nuance. So absurd.
@@infinitecurlieMaybe I should've been more clear.
*Most* criticisms aimed towards women artists *from men* are motivated by misogyny. Just saying 🤷.
ahhhh i hate the title. oh i HATE it.
the riot grrl ziney look is cute but that is a *poor* title. thats like... chatgpt, what is should i call my girlboss poetry book?
eta of *course* there's tumbrised ED content, of *course* there is. that felt *very* glamourising.
Literally just as I finished your boy moms vid 😂
❤