My girlfriend is autistic and communication has never been a problem for us in that department either. I know it's on a spectrum but I feel like if Gaiman is capable of having a long term marriage and a thriving career, he was perfectly capable of asking for consent and respecting a no.
I hate when abusers claim they are bad with social cues or blame their neurodivergence (if they are neurodivergent). You see it with Gaiman, you see it with Musk, and it makes me fvcking sick. I am ND and bad at social cues, yet I know what sexual assault is and not to impulsively raise my arm in a certain salute. These monsters can't sit with us.
Yup! AuDHD here. I am occasionally accidentally rude, out of ignorance. I'm really bad with oversharing. I'll ask a question that people find inappropriate, things like that. I've never assaulted someone or engaged in white supremacy. It infuriates me that they're trying to use this as an excuse.
Also, being bad at social skills this doesn't mean you don't seek to improve. I know my weak spots, so I put in effort to shore them up. Just because they're not my strengths doesn't mean I'm INCAPABLE of improvement. Anyone who defaults to their struggle as an excuse to repeat a behavior and make no effort to change isn't simply struggling, they're making excuses not to give care and concern while demanding accommodation for them and _only_ them.
In my experience autism + npd in cis men is a horrible combo, because they are trying to achieve all the narcissist goals, but can't read the room to know when they are going way overboard and just disgusting people. My dad has that combo, fortunately he is not a physical abuser or anything, but he's not a lot of fun to be around to say the least.
It disgusting. Also it's notable only rich white men get away with this excuse, the rest of us get held to a higher standard (as we all should be). It's protects a particular subset of ND people: wealthy, powerful, successful, white men. It also feels distinctly ableist we're so out of touch as autistics we just run around being dreadful people or something.
My diagnosis is still fresh enough that I'm busy trying to figure out what kind of accommodations would be reasonable for me to ask other people to make and what kind of stuff I need to find ways to deal with even though it's tough for me. Other people having ridiculous expectations about the kind of behaviours that should be excused - very unhelpful. It makes me feel icky just for bringing up my neurodivergence
I once went home with a guy I had known a few years prior. I felt safe with him. Back at his place, he nearly killed me during ”the act” and I pretended to sleep next to him the entire night so he wouldn’t get violent when stopping me from leaving. As soon as the sun came up I grabbed my stuff very quietly and he didn’t wake up until I was unlocking the door. I pretended to be happy with the encounter and said ”talk to you later”. I got home and blocked him on all platforms. He managed to find me with a new account saying he didn’t understand why I ”just left” and that I had forgotten my scarf. I blocked him immediately and thankfully haven’t seen him since. Fawning saved my life.
+ yes I have C-PTSD and ”people pleasing tendencies”. Sometimes previous trauma actually helps you survive other trauma. Though that is obviously the only time when PTSD ”helps”.
That's horrible, I'm so sorry. It really sucks to have to be all smiley and nice to someone who seriously wronged you, but sometimes it can save your life.
As someone who is not prone to fawning in threatening situations, I can promise you that there's a good reason so many people fawn. I have been traumatized as hell by my inability to just go along with abusive people. It's just my nature to be stubborn, dig my heels in, and stick to my "no", and the reaction to that by abusive people with power over you is NOT charitable. Being a fighter is not a "noble" thing. Nobody is a "better" victim because they fight back against emotional, verbal, physical, or sexual abuse. Fighting back just provoke rage, just gets them angry, and does not spare you the trauma. Fawners are perfectly valid as victims, doing whatever their instincts say will get the least violent reaction. It's the _smart_ response, and that doesn't make them more moral or commendable than my brute strength fight response, that's just a different way to react to abuse.
It's such an easy way to derail the conversation. If you're stuck having to talk about how you reacted, that deflects from talking about the behaviour of the abuser. Anything but talking about the abuse itself. And then people wonder why 'it took people so long to come forward'. You can never get it right no matter how you do it. But abusers get all the leeway in the world.
@@EmilyAdams-q1h He is a white millionaire, powerful man. That is a fact, not a claim. He was also way older than his victims, girls in their 20's. He was also the boss of one right?, so there you have at least 3 advantage points for him to coerce them into consent. He knows what he is doing, he writes about abuse of power all the time.
@@EmilyAdams-q1h Did we hear the same story? The events described here had me grinding my teeth with a sickening knot growing in my stomach. Your take is no blowtorch torture equals no coersion? Lay off the copium.
It's so heartbreaking to hear about what he did to those women. And it's a kick to the face because I LOVED some of his work, especially Coraline, but now everything feels ruined. The Lovecraft comparison is spot on. I love what he did for the genre of horror, but it's hard to enjoy his work when the casual racism is just ever-present in his stories.
I feel as though if what you like of Coraline is the movie, do not let the fact that he wrote the novella tarnish that movie for you. They're different enough to be considered separate from one another, in my opinion.
I feel like you can love the art and still separate it from the artist. I also feel very much that you can also love the sinner without loving the sin. That’s what my housemate told me when it comes to the whole JK Rowling situation.
@@victoriasalter1701 death of the author doesn't really work logically if the author isn't dead, imo, but maybe I'm doing my own kind of mental gymnastics so I can keep my Coraline (directed and written by Henry Selick) tho admittedly I'm not really pushing for separation of art from the artist, I'm pushing for giving credit where credit is due (and refusing to give it where it isn't, which is why I find it worth emphasizing that Henry Selick is probably the better guy to give credit for the 2009 film Coraline, given he wrote the screenplay and directed the project. Neil Gaiman himself has been very clear that he was not particularly involved in the project. So why act like he was? Why let his scuzzy nature tarnish something that is much bigger than him and quite easy to attribute to others, as he has done himself? Why not give credit to the people that deserve it?)
The only way I can engage with Lovecraft's work (which to me is very important) is through heavy criticism of his person. He could've chosen to write about the same subjects from a different (for example, less racist) perspective, but that's who he was. I can enjoy and reference a piece of art while acknowledging the disgust I feel for the person who made it and how it affected the work. I don't believe in separating the art from the artist, because that art would never exist without the artist, and it's always going to be formed by the artist's personality. I think we have to remember that where there was nothing they created something, and you can't do that without putting pieces of yourself there. However, this works much better when the person is dead and incapable of causing more harm. I think I'll personally wait until Gaiman is dead and buried before I try to engage with his work again.
@@arbyswitch5580 This is me with Stardust. It's one of my favorite movies of all time, but from what I hear it's definitely different from the book as well.
A lot of people have commented comparing Neil Gaiman with the character of Richard Madoc, the main villain from the Calliope issue and episode of Sandman, but that line "That's the whole point, darling. Writers make things up" is eerily similar to the line he gave to the other author/abuser in that story, Erasmus Fry: "Writers are liars my dear. Surely you have realised that by now?"
It's terrifying, I feel he's been putting sly jokes in, across his work and talks etc. the red riding hood and the wolf one scares me, really shows what he thinks of women.
Amanda Palmer is a great example of this forced fake spirituality that is so helpful when you can't be bothered to call a spade a spade and a rapist - a rapist. Sounds like she lost more after the divorce, and honestly, no compassion for her, but isn't it telling that enabling women still suffer worse consequences than abusive men.
Re. Amanda: it's no coincidence that she hired vulnerable young girls off the street, instead of hiring middle-aged or older women with impressive training and credentials. The latter is what rich parents do -- unless they have another motive. If you're at all technically inclined, turning off Javascript is an option for reading the Vulture article. It's a bit fiddly, but worth it for important information.
Considering her past history of refusing to pay her support acts and keeping money for failed projects instead of returning it to the donors, plus her habit of hitting up fans for accomodation instead of using hotels it might also be that she's incredibly miserly. Professional nannies are expensive, Young starstruck fans are cheap!
@@voiceofraisin3778not just miserly but also knows that these people are much easier to exploit. It’s a lot easier not stiff someone pay when you know they can’t afford to file in small claims court or take time off to go after their missing money.
@@voiceofraisin3778That just sounds like more of the same pattern of manipulating and exploiting fans & whoever she has power over. Extremely telling to me that she offered to pay Pavlovich the first time she sent her to Gaiman’s house alone when she wasn’t regularly doing that. I cannot see how it could be anything other than completely deliberate to be honest. She told Gaiman to stay away because he could “really hurt her” Amanda Palmer sent a young, very vulnerable woman who was financially reliant on her to visit Neil Gaiman’s house alone. Before doing so, she explicitly told him that this woman was particularly vulnerable. I don’t even think she was willfully ignorant or an enabler. She’s not stupid, she knew fucking exactly what she was doing. If she genuinely had no idea at the time, she would have supported Pavlovich when she went to the cops instead of refusing to speak to them. She would have supported her now as she speaks out about it. If she actually really truly didn’t know, she would have made sure he couldn’t see their son after finding out that Gaiman abused women in front of him with such frequency he started picking up on the language his father used towards his victims. Palmer has acted at every turn exactly like an abuser or accomplice would have, because that’s what she was/is
The "never meet your heroes" statement is more true to this day. I'm tired of people in power using their fans for their own sick and disgusting "fantasies." I'm so sick of this cycle that keeps repeating itself to where a celebrity or a youtuber that people thought they can trust, just abuse that trust to their own personal gain, and unfortunately these fans end up getting traumatized for life. I know these are tough subjects but thank you Rachel, for wanting to continue to bring awareness for people to not be fooled by people like Neil Gaiman. I just want to say sorry to the people who loved Neil Gaiman's work before these allegations came to light
Can't one just for once be able to enjoy a nice book, movie or song without having to worry about the creator being a degenerate creep? Just once? It's not that hard to be a decent person.
Legit, jus a few minutes ago I saw a video of the developer of the game Bad Parenting is a pedo ugh Also the dev of Cry Of Fear, both amazin games but the devs :///
Maybe consume more media made by women and marginalized creators. I hate when people do this whole "oh, we can't have anything now, every artist is a scumbag" thing when it actually pertains to a minority of men who get all of the accolades. Meanwhile a lot of talented artists who are also good people have small audiences and could benefit from more support of their craft.
I think Amanda Palmer does bear responsibility for her own lack of boundaries with fans. However Neil Gaiman is responsible for each and every thing he did and I expect he did subject his wife to some abuse because.... that's just how it works usually.
I feel very little sympathy for Amanda Palmer. However, I'm reserving full judgment because she's still in a bitter custody battle over their poor kid, that has dragged on for 5 years. I expect she will eventually break her silence, at the latest when the kid is 18. Still, she should have known much better and, by the time she was already divorcing him, have the presence of mind to not put more vulnerable, young women alone in a house with neil gailman...
Yeah. I think the focus should stay on Neil for the most part because he committed actual crimes, but Amanda shouldn't get off the hook. Her relationship with fans is beyond inappropriate, but as far as we know now she didn't do anything illegal. I still dislike her, though, and if she had any knowledge of what he was doing to those women she's disgusting. But he needs to be the one getting the most flack, not his wife.
He is primarily responsible, but it does appear that she was knowingly enabling his abuse in a meaningful way. Throwing vulnerable women to him like chew toys, then mopping up what’s left.
The thing that bothers me most is that the internet's calls for Neil Gaiman's head are far tamer than the backlash currently directed at Amanda Palmer. I've also seen threats directed at their child, which makes me sick. Regardless of the crimes of the parent or how one feels about the parents/their creations...that's just not okay. Thankfully moderators has been swift in removing the majority of those kinds of comments, but I still hate that I came across it, and that someone posted it in the first place. Especially considering I've been trying to avoid much of the coverage/commentary. Something else that bothers me is that a lot of people are comparing Amanda to Ghislaine Maxwell or otherwise saying she served up victims tp Neil, or that she somehow was the sinister mastermind behind his actions (...like. What? Before they were married, too? Before they even met? How does that work?) Is she perfect? No. Has she made mistakes? Yes. Should she take responsibility for her mistakes? Of course. (As should we all.) I read the same article as everyone else and didn't come to that conclusion at all. Idk, maybe people are bad at reading comprehension...(or it could be an issue with my own media literacy, who knows.) I've listened to the podcast that broke the story and followed the situation since it first came to light, so maybe something was missing from the New Yorker article? (I thought it was really well done, but that's the only thing I could come up with as to why I have such an apparently different take from some folks.) If more information comes to light that confirms the "evil mastermind" narrative, I'll update my views...but for now I'm just wary of the apparent glee of people have spreading conspiracy theories and sending threats to both her and the kid. I find the warped narratives and the harsher backlash directed at her (compared to her ex-husband) to be telling. And honestly disturbing. Especially considering she's one of those figures people love to hate And also because the internet seems to love a dogpile directed at women (especially those who are vocal and/or "shameless" or whatever the quality is that somehow justifies this behavior.)
The impression I got from reading what the various people have said about it, is that Neil treats his relationship partners differently than he does his sexual partners outside those relationships. It doesn't sound like he did any of that really dodgy stuff to his actual wives and girlfriends - he reserved that for the vulnerable women who he didn't have any romantic/emotional attachment to. I guess the two groups of women serve different needs for him. And if that's the case, than Amanda may not have known the full scope of what he was doing until the other women started to come to her and tell her. But she must have known something wasn't right, so I agree that she's not blameless in what's happened to those women - especially the ones she introduced to him after she had been told what he'd been up to.
This is so off topic but I have to say - the way your dog looks at you with so much love when you’re speaking is just the sweetest! Brought a bit of light to such a dark topic 😭
Same- it’s difficult for me because I’m an SA survivor and Rachel’s coverage is the only one I’ve been able to watch on this case 😢 I do care about what happened, it can just trigger my diagnosed PTSD.
I do 100% believe that separating the artist from the art is possible, however I agree that something like this forever taints an artists work for me personally. I really love Kanye’s music, some of it really impacted my life at times. I still believe it’s incredible music but I cannot bring myself to listen now.
Personally in these cases I like an approach of acknowledging the artist behind the art, and pointing out parts that are tainted (?) while engaging with it. The artist is forever a piece of their work, and they can't be fully separated - but they can be not directly supported while viewing the art (🏴☠️). The artists interpretation and intent (and bank account) _can_ be seperated from the piece, though. Which is called death of the author, I believe, and what most people mean when they say to separate the artist.
I feel the same about JK Rowling. I had to drop HP a long time ago but watching her attack cis (North) African women last summer and onward for not fitting into the w. supremacist ideal of feminity broke my heart all over again. She truly became the villain she taught us to fight against. 💔
My empathies. My love of Ahsoka Tano was ruined by the alleged transphobia and violent abuse of the person cast to play her in live action. Ahsoka got me through a really rough time in my life, and the human sense of betrayal when art you love involves people who act in ways that harm others, especially people a lot like you, hurts you like few things do.
i think the scientology aside is a really important part of the story that people are glossing over, probably because they're not very familiar. gaiman being an auditor at a young age essentially taught him the skills needed to manipulate people. auditing in scientology is just authoritative hypnosis, and and when asked for comment in the article gaiman doesn't really condemn it. if anything, it further condemns the church to me, because they are actively teaching abuse tactics as spiritual wellness, and even those who don't actively practice still go on to harm others with that knowledge.
I'm surprised more people aren't talking about his connection to that "church" considering there are documentaries about how horrible it is and the trauma formers members have gone through after leaving.
i had just finished American Gods right before the news broke. I remember thinking that a lot of the sex scenes were unnecessary and also unnecessarily graphic. Not just that but the female characters were just boiled down to either sex objects or props for the male characters. Unfortunately now it makes sense why these things rubbed me up the wrong way
Oh interesting. I've never read the novel, but I watched the TV show where the creators made the decision to let characters have sex right in the beginning. Gaiman took the moral highground and said he would rather go into open traffic than give the Ok, because of the opening being so sexually explicit already...
I was always weirded out by the bit on the roof where Shadow is talking with the youngest Zorya sister and there's an unnecessary description of how he could see through her nightdress. Granted, she's an ageless avatar, but physically, SHE'S A TEENAGER.
Yeah there's a r@pe scene in Sandman I haven't been able to stop thinking about since I heard about this. An author captures a muse and abuses her and uses her to become famous, and there's this scene where the narration says he liked how she "choked back her tears like a child" when he r@ped her. I always thought that was extremely weird and gross with what we know now it's a whole other level of horrifying 🤮
Yes! I've always felt that his writing indicates fundamentally misunderstanding about boundaries in his own life. Which was particularly upsetting with his books for younger people.
A "male feminist" is an oxymoron. At best, a man can be an ally, since a man's existence in itself is a danger to women. There can never be a safe space as long as males live together with women. So unless they wanna off themselves, they can't be a real feminist.
I mean, it's weird when somebody makes an identity out of being an ally to another group unless they work in the field or something. Like it's one thing if you were a white person working for the NAACP, because then what are you supposed to do, lie about your job? But I don't go around saying I am an anti-racist ally or whatever, like, I would certainly hope so, and it's just weird to try to socially profit off of another group having hardship.
If someone is just actually talking about feminist issues without doing the performative "I'm a feminist, I'm an ally" thing, they're usually good, but any man who repeatedly says "I'm a feminist" outright is immediately suspicious to me, especially if he also makes hyperbolic statements like "all men suck", I just don't believe they actually think that.
Absolutely insane that she refused to pay her despite being a millionaire. I sometimes dogsit for my neighbors to be kind and they still pay me. The dogs are well-behaved. But children are so much harder to care for and take so much energy, shocking.
I keep seeing people dragging Amanda Palmer through the mud seemingly on no basis other than that she was married to him. That’s hardly a strong foundation to fling such devastating accusations. For all we know, she was a victim of his herself. I’m not advocating that she is, but we simply do not know. This past summer, I saw her perform some unreleased songs she wrote during their divorce, and the lyrics really made it sound to me like he may have mentally abused her, at the least. And she has, throughout her career, been incredibly outspoken in her anti-SA advocacy. She has raised a lot of money for survivors, and has written many songs on the topic, being an SA survivor herself. Do you mean to suggest that was all a facade? Unless I’m missing something?
its not because amanda was married to gaiman but because people suspect that she intentionally supplied women to him knowing they would be abused. Scarlett alleges that when she came to gaimans house after being employed by amanda as a nanny, the child was on a play date and she and gaiman were alone. She also claims Palmer told her 14 different women had come to her with the same complaint after scarlett confided in her about the sexual abuse@@xhappyponyxwasmyoldname1395
@@xhappyponyxwasmyoldname1395 You should read the full article- there are plenty of links that get around the paywall if you search for them. Amanda Palmer might also be a victim- I don't actually doubt that she is one in part- but she certainly didn't help any of the other victims and often did enable Gaiman and that is backed up by the article. I personally wouldn't say she's on the same level as Ghislaine but she did put at least one woman into contact with Gaiman knowing that he could victimism them- and allegedly even told Gaiman that 'he couldn't have this one' regarding the nanny she'd hired and sent to his house. She also chose not to cooperate with police when Pavlovich (the nanny) filed a report against Gaiman- despite Pavlovich thinking that she would and I'll quote from the article here : “I said to them, ‘She’s a public feminist, and she knows what happened. She’ll want to protect me. I’m sure she’ll speak.’” - That's pretty terrible in my opinion and something that shouldn't be swept under the rug.
Also, regarding Palmer's possible complicity - I find it very...interesting that she arranged a play date for her son that took him away from the house the first time she sent Scarlett to Gaiman. It wouldn't surprise me if Palmer stayed silent and did damage control for Gaiman after putting women in danger in order to keep Gaiman from steamrolling her in the divorce.
Yes. That struck me as very deliberate as if she were giving Pavlovich to Gaiman since she definitely knew he had a history of making advances to and having relationships with young women.
She might not have realized what he was doing in terms of how he was treating them. a lot of people have a kink for the woman introducing other women to their male partner for sex, in a way that is consensual to everybody. I like doing that-- like, I'm not going to scope someone out and fake become friends with them just to seduce them, but if I can tell that there is chemistry between my partner and someone else I like to encourage it. If your husband is not abusive to you, you wouldn't expect that he is an abuser, and if he is abusive to you, your judgment may be compromised. There is nothing wrong with matchmaking, the problem is the abuse.
What people tell their own therapists is not evidence, as therapists are supposed to take what they are told as true (or at least treat it as true). So Gaiman and his therapist using his therapy as "proof" she was lying is sick. And this therapist clearly seems to be violating ethical guidelines.
I knew of the fight flight and freeze but not about the fawn option. Hits home really hard because I blamed myself for being too nice (which didn’t seem like one of those other three things someone does in danger) so I thought it was my own fault for being too nice. But I tried to be nice to get out of the situation without angering him. Thank you for speaking about these situations because it gives me a sense of being able to accept it wasn’t my fault.
I also default to fawn, which is so bizarre because it's just out of character for me, but I can't help it. Basically you don't have any control over which "setting" triggers, and women are generally encouraged to appease men regardless of their own boundaries, so I'd imagine it's a pretty common one. It was never your fault, you were just trying to survive.
I'm surprised it took so long for society to make the connection. I'm sure we've all seen an animal encounter where it seems like the animal is friendly, but in reality, they are freekyimg out.
Yeah, don't under credit yourself, I'm sure you instinctively knew which option was the safest. I have played along before when I realized I wasn't going to get out of it and didn't want to escalate to a violent rape instead of a coercive rape. I'm not embarrassed or ashamed at all, I avoided being harmed further by bullshitting this guy to his face.
I'm so happy were helped by this info. I've done all 4 responses and fawn is the one people don't understand and use to undermine your truama. It's really sad. When i reflect on fawning I feel a lot of shame (which I shouldn't at all, no one should) because it seems counter intuitive. But we see animals do it all the time to stop aggression, which is to say its as natural as the other 3 danger responses. Even freeze gets seen as an illegitimate response. We need way more education on these responses to danger, abuse and trauma. None of us should feel bad for our natural reactions and I hope knowing all 4 can happen brings people some peace.
Fawning is as much of a trauma response as fight, flight and freeze are, and it does not imply consent. You are not responsible for what happened to you. Please take care of yourself 🖤
My first sexual experience I did not fully understand consent and it led me to hurt someone I really cared about. That experience has stayed with me everyday since and made me reflect and learn so I would never hurt anyone like that ever again. Whenever I am intimate or talk about sex with my current boyfriend I always make sure to remind him that his safety and comfort are the most important thing to me. I make sure to clearly communicate our boundaries and safe words. I can’t imagine hurting someone so deeply and not having it permanently change how you approach relationships and sex. It’s disgusting and a clear disregard for the wellbeing of anyone but yourself.
This is really common with young people. If you don't teach kids about consent, they'll learn sex and love from bullshit in movies and books, then discover that's no good the hard way by hurting each other. I'm sorry that you and your first weren't given the tools needed to know how to be safe and healthy. We keep failing kids this way as a culture and there's not enough urgency to make the needed changes.
I have fumbled it before too. It wasn't failure to get consent in the first place so much as my partner was facing the other direction and started dissociating and getting triggered, but I misinterpreted the noises they were making as sex noises, so I was basically unknowingly sexually assaulting them for like 10 minutes. They weren't mad at me because it was obvious what had happened and why, but it's still a really fucked up situation and I feel bad about it.
And yes, we figured out a system after that. Have the person Who tends to dissociate hold onto an item in a way that you would have to be purposely holding onto it to continue to signal consent, and if they drop it you stop.
I remember, a few years ago, some comments by Amanda that she (and maybe Neil) went on tours and couchsurfed in fans houses. I lived with a girlfriend at the time and thought "how awesome would it be to host these two?" Now that send shivers down my spine.
I read the article about gaiman which detailed the abuse that you posted on screen. It was hard to read. His abuse was so shocking and revolting and stomach turning. I don't think I can read any of his things going forward. I was also severely disappointed by his wife, it is worth mentioning. She knew. Also their son should probably be removed from their homes.
@It absolutely is a 'get a grip' situation. No one died. Nothing happened. Adult women engaged in consensual activity and are now grifting to monetize their sexuality (like all women eagerly do in 2025) by claiming to have been 'raped' by technicality in the media. Lol, this is precisely why women are viewed as children and always will be. You bring it on yourselves.
I was just getting into some of his work before I discovered all the allegations. The way he addressed them is STILL fucked. Even if his version of the story is true, he was taking advantage of people who could not consent due to the power dynamic with him, especially with the girl who relied on nanny money financially.
I hate it so much, it feels like every single day it's a new man who is confirmed to have done stuff like this and to get away with it. I feel like at this point I literally can't trust any men because no green flag is green enough, any green flag you think of has men who had that feature and were still horrible.
Even in situations where you can argue that the women in question were in positions to consent, the kind of pressure present due his power is uncomfortable at the very least. It might not be illegal but it is definitely questionable!
@@sashakononova8968 Especially with public figures, when you're only being shown a carefully curated image so you can't rely on that. Decent dudes really do exist in real life but nobody is perfect. Humans are flawed. But there are definitely good ones in the mix - spotting them is the hard part
Yes! I'd love to hear Rachel touch on this really important subject. We need as many advocates and allies as possible to help keep pushing the paradigm shift in how we as a society treat and think about autism.
also, re: the 'misreading social cues' excuse - i'm autistic, have bpd and severe anxiety. i frequently misread social cues. someone repeatedly and clearly telling me *no* is not a social cue i have ever misread, because it's not a cue, it's loud communication and i know what it means. i know i need to stop, step back, and re-evaluate what i'm doing. it's frustrating and insulting that predators and fascists feel like being 'socially awkward' is an excuse for heinous shit.
I know more than one person who went on to date their rapist after. I think on top of what you said about the fawning response, it's also a societal thing where we are trained to blame ourselves and feel so much guilt that some people respond by telling themselves it was their fault, it was consensual, etc, and that's how a lot of these turn into really abusive relationships.
Dude fr my stepmom married her first husband BECAUSE he SA’d her:( she came from a small extremely religious Christian town and thought she had to marry the man she did that with even though she literally didn’t consent to any of it 😢 and of course, it was an extremely abusive marriage. As a society we have to stop blaming victims for the actions of ab*sers. No one wants those things to happen to them- and the ab*ser knew better 🙄 they live on those planet. They just don’t care.
Seems Gaiman is willing to pay for therapy for virtually anyone other than himself (at least a quality therapist that actually holds him accountable and expects him to put in the work.)
It may be that he sought out a therapist that wouldn't challenge his harmful behavior both so he could feel better about himself and also so he could use the presence of said therapist as an excuse/shield when "apologizing" to his victims (e.g. "I'm sorry, I'm going to therapy to get better")
The discussion of sexual fawning is timely and it is something that needs to be talked about more. I can think of at least one time in my life where I would have acted very differently if I had known about the concept or thought more carefully about what was happening. Damn.
I was a much bigger fan of Amanda Palmer than I ever was of Neil Gaiman, and I haven't seen anyone else talking about her role in this. Thank you for making this video and discussing the nuances of it. It's really important that this information is out there
So -- I say this as a fiction writer myself -- people have GOT to get over the idea that being a writer who can create sympathetic characters or engage with human themes automatically makes you a good person. Fiction writers often have an ability to view people in very dispassionate and disconnected ways, as tools to be used in a story or, sadly, in real life too sometimes. I'm not saying this is a necessary trait for being a writer, but being an author does not mean you're more empathetic toward real people. You may actually be less empathetic, especially when presented with the level of power and opportunities for control that being a famous writer brings. This is a horrendous case of abuse imo and I don't think I could read Gaiman's work now as I'd be looking for signs in it of what he really is. But, I also really respect your position of separating art from artist because I think it is possible in many cases, especially with older works.
This entire situation didn't just ruin Gaiman for me, it also ruined Amanda Palmer for me. I used to love her music because it felt so raw and personal. But now, knowing that not only did she know about these women and remained silent, but also knowingly gave Gaiman more victims? She is dead to me too.
such a heart-wrenching situation. coraline, the graveyard book, good omens, etc were stories i grew up on. it’s so difficult to square that with all of this
This entire situation is awful- what a disgusting man! I hope he gets the punishment and shame that he deserves and I hope the women who’s lives he affected get all the support in the world
Amanda and her whole "the art of asking" is so obnoxious. It's so obvious that she thought high enough of her self to believe her presence was her contribution to people. My art is the gift and I get a nanny in return? 🤮 sickening... I'm only now learning how the nanny was a fan and it just pissed me off as the final cherry to the shit Sunday.
To the people who do not understand how you can end up in multiple abusive situations, I will explain it how my therapist explained it to me: a red flag is like someone coming at you and it hurts, therefore you retreat so the abuser backs off. But when you have been abused in the past, you are used to the pain, so you do not have the instinct to back off, because you have been used to the pain. You stay. So the abuser knows you are vulnerable and that they can manipulate you. It is not your fault, but, good news, it is something that you can learn to avoid (with therapy). Also abusers love people who are isolated because it is easy for them to make them fully dependent on the abuser... that has power. When you have nowhere to go... it is scarier to leave than to put up with the pain. Speaking from my own experience, leaving was the best thing I ever did. It wasn't easy and I doubted my decision many times before I managed to stabilize and get back to myself. I wish all people who are in the position I was to be able to find a way back to themselves and thrive.
What wounds me so deeply is that this came out of nowhere. Nobody was surpised by Marilyn Manson except for people in denial. But what's terrifying is that Gaiman hid it. So. Well.
As a Millenial, I had to cut off so many media, I used to love as a child, from my adult life. Grief has become such a core part of my experience as a media consumer. I wish, I had been taught early on to never put artists on pedestal, all it does is give them power and influence over vulnerable people. 💔
The thing with separating the art from the artist is it’s one thing when there just kind of a dick, totally different when they’re racist, homophobic, a r*pist. Especially when you’re giving them money and keeping them as an influential figure.
I was looking for a video about this today and I didn't know which one to click on. I was hoping that you would make a video about it because I only trust you when it comes to sensitive topics.
The people who can't separate the art from the artist is the victims. I always imagine how horrible it must feel if you hear your abusers song, or see them on a magazine, or hear people praising their work. For me i just can't separate the two.
While understanding that Gaiman was conditioned by his upbringing, there is an argument to be made for not wanting to inflict suffering on others. Gaiman sounds like a sociopath with no capacity for empathy, except maybe for intellectualised compassion and understanding, hence his "feminism".
At least Lovecraft never SA'd anyone, and he changed his views later in life, before his early death robbed him of the opportunity to further evolve. Now that I'm looking back I can think of so many instances in Gaiman's stories where women are tortured. Dream and Nada. Richard Madoc. Its like he was confessing.
Yeah, when I first heard about this, I thought Calliope was a fucking self-report. Even the "I'm a male feminist" and "Writers are liars, my dear" lines. It's so GROSS.
@@Kalitayywith how he was? Unlikely. But also we shouldn’t try to make worse a man who was deeply unwell and whose extreme xenophobia stemmed from seemingly literal fear.
I've been having alot of feelings about this situation - it's heartbreaking. I've loved Gaiman's work for over 20 years (many have been fans for far longer!); something in his style hit just right with me and i consistently enjoyed his work over the years. Coraline is one of my daughter's favorite movies (she loves spooky stuff). I have a recording of him reading The Truth is a Cave in the Black Mountains that i've listened to, in his voice, over and over. It feels like every good thing i have ever felt or learned while enjoying this work is soiled now. I'm just so, so disappointed.
Regarding Amanda Palmer, she is going through a divorce from Gaiman that has dragged into a fifth year. She has probably refrained from speaking with anyone regarding Gaiman because of the ongoing divorce proceedings. After having read the Vulture article I am left with the opinion that Palmer should have known better but I do not think she was involved with Neil's crimes. I also believe she is a victim of Gaiman's as well. She should have known better and she could have done better to help the vulnerable women in Gaiman's life, but blame for his crimes lies solely with Gaiman. I am not an Amanda Palmer apologist, but I know that she is in a vulnerable spot because of the divorce and custody issues and probably can't talk about anything due to the pending case.
This video suddenly made me realise why that guy hasn't updated his tumblr in months, didn't even know about this whole mess Guess I'm back to following Chuck Tingle, at least he's chill and respectful :,)
I really appreciate how you and leez/vangelina tackle thesd stories, it makes it less overwhelming to be informed on them than if we were to look into it by ourselves Hope that makes sense, bad brain fog today Thanks for your video!!! Hope youre well!
2:46 rereading The Silkworm by JK Rowling’s malefake identity and my god, the transphobia is so much more transparent than I remembered the first time.
Thank you for posting this. I have zero interest in celebrity gossip but have enjoyed their work in the past. This is sickening. Sorry you had to research this but I am grateful to you for bringing us a conscientious appraisal of the situation. We must be good medicine for each other. Thank you for your work Rachel❤
"Male feminist" is such an interesting term, because why would you need to explain that a feminist isn't female? It's kind of like saying "female football player, she plays football, but for girls!"
Anyone who describes themselves as a “male feminist” gives me bad vibes. Somewhere between self-congratulatory and “methinks he doth protests too much.”
@@warlordofbritanniaThey need to be called pro-feminists, as they should be in a support role. Men cannot be feminists, and it’s “cute” when they get mad at hearing that.
Chris Shelton has two videos about Neil Gaiman and his involvement with Scientology. Chris makes great videos about Scientology. Tony Ortega also wrote an article about Neil Gaiman and how far he got into Scientology.
I've been avoiding info because ive been a fan since i was a preteen and now am 34. Even got my 13yr old daughter into his work. I'm disgusted as a human and as a victim who tends to fawn.
I hoped you would make a video about this unfortunate topic. As a fan of Gaiman for longer than you've been alive, I am very, VERY disappointed in him.
I'm getting a real Epstein/Ghislaine vibe when it comes to the allegations involving Gaiman and his ex-wife, Palmer. I realize the cases are not the same - evil is like a snowflake, each manifestation special in its own way - but there's a good deal in common.
I just started this video. And as someone who has read Neil gaiman since I was merely 6 years old… I’m very sad to have to hear this. I’m glad you made a video for me because I have been keeping out of the news about it
Sir Terry Pratchett's name will thankfully remain clean. He wrote the majority of Good Omens and they did so by sending text through emails. Pratchett would not have worked with NG if he'd known how he treated women.
I was waiting - I knew you'd have thoughtful commentary! I feel horrible for these women and hope they find healing in each other and their supporters. Despicable that he had all the resources in the world to seek treatment for his own trauma, but he chose to be disgusting instead. Irredeemable.
I have a friend who met Amanda Palmer when she was young at a Dresden Doll concert. Apparently, she's very dismissive with some of her young girl fans and overly friendly with others. She got the vibe that she's had predatory ways even before Neil Gaiman came into the picture.
Thank you so much for this video! I heard about this but it seemed so complex and chaotic to me that I didn't even know where to start informing myself. So thank you for your work and research 💖💖
Well. Time not to never read Gaiman again. I've tried to stay away from this, because I fear the truth. His writings have been very important to me. But I trust you, Rachel. You've always been on the side of the angels.
Thanks for doing this deep dive. It's taken me too long to learn about this because Gaiman was my favorite author for more than a decade and it is so soul crushing to know that someone I respected and admired so much is such a monster. It makes me feel like I should never love any creator. I knew you'd approach this in a way that I could handle but that was also real, so I appreciate you taking the time and energy to do so. Sometimes I wonder if anyone can be rich and famous and also good. Sure doesn't seem like it.
Barely into the video but adding because I just remembered that he was well known for answering questions and talking to fans on tumblr. What he could have done or said privately on there...
I couldn’t get through the whole article while reading, hoping I can make it through your video since you’ll be there supporting me 🙃 One of the most devastatingly disappointing things to learn about in my personal entertainment sphere in my lifetime. I can’t say what a fan I was and how sick I felt reading even the beginning of the allegations. It’s absolutely heartbreaking for someone my age who was part of the nerd/fantasy communities I was part of. My husband also said Amanda Palmer seemed to be complicit after reading the article. We just saw the Dresden Dolls in Boston at Halloween. I will say that as someone who was a fan in high school and wanted to go sort of for nostalgia’s sake, I always did get the impression that she was a sort of manipulative and attention-seeking person.
i'm unable to separate the artist from the art. it's like if i have once eaten or drunk something that made me really sick, i just can't shake off the disgust
Thank you so much for talking about this. Must have been a hard video for you to record! I knew I needed to hear what happened for a while but couldn't bring myself to research it.
I don’t really get why we’d ever want to separate art from artist. I believe strongly that the context of a person’s character is important. In the case of Lovecraft, I don’t see a reason to boycott him, but I don’t want to shy away from the fact that he was a terrible person. JK Rowling, on the other hand, is on permanent timeout while she is using the profits of her work to cause harm in the real world. I can’t claim to have been a Gaiman fan, but I feel pretty much the same about him.
If anyone wants to read this article sans paywall: if you have a library card and a Libby account, your library may have access to it digitally. That's how I was able to read it! This worked for me in the United States, not sure about elsewhere.
In my personal life I struggle more with people who know better. Who loudly proclaim themselves as advocates and allies. Then the actions they take obfuscate and enable monsters. (Who as discussed may be ignorant) If they know better and refuse to do better I'd prefer they shut up.
The first Neil Gaiman book I ever read was Neverwhere, and its main character always reminded me of Gaiman himself (at least physically in his description). The book is filled with female characters- teenage Door, the major one, sexy stoic Hunter, Anesthesia, Richard's frigid fiancee Jessica. At one point Richard, in his late twenties or early thirties, contemplates whether he should kiss the teenage Door. It doesn't come as a super shock that Gaiman has issues with women and it feels like it comes from a place of feeling a need to prove himself to be that master. I think he feels inferior to women and can't handle it
2:33 I would say the difference is that qLovecraft's works are public domain, there's a full financial separation from the artist while Gaiman, like Rowling ironically, will keep making money off of his works and use it to keep being awful. You can make new Cthulhu mythos without the racism or you can tackle it head on. On Amanda Palmer, she definitely knew. She's a grifter exactly like Gaiman. Even they themselves say they don't have much in common except that they'll "never be bored" with each other. Palmer has a history of using people for financial gain. Even the article points out how it's likely that Palmer was feeding some of these ladies to Gaiman Also his history in Scientology shouldn't be dismissed either, he was most likely horribly abused as most children ar in that human trafficking cult. It probably explains why he wanted to be called Master or some of the alleged tactics he used
Rachel, as an American who is watching these idiots destroy my country: THANK YOU. Your content provides such comfort to autistic, trans, curious, people who care about social justice like me. Literally, 9 out of 10 of my closest friends cite your channel as their comfort channel. Keep being you. It does make a difference in our lives.
As an autistic man, let me say: It's not hard to ask for clear consent and check in regularly, or avoid giving "Roman Salutes" to crowds of people.
Absolutely. When my sexy time can potential push boundaries, we both check in with each other. It's not difficult and 100% what informed consent is.
Yes, Elon Musk giving a nazi salute does not give him no Asperger’s. Congratulations! You deserve a cookie.
My girlfriend is autistic and communication has never been a problem for us in that department either. I know it's on a spectrum but I feel like if Gaiman is capable of having a long term marriage and a thriving career, he was perfectly capable of asking for consent and respecting a no.
Nah
If you're a male feminist, you have automatic consent.
Look at destiny
Oh god. Did he use autism as an excuse?
I hate when abusers claim they are bad with social cues or blame their neurodivergence (if they are neurodivergent). You see it with Gaiman, you see it with Musk, and it makes me fvcking sick. I am ND and bad at social cues, yet I know what sexual assault is and not to impulsively raise my arm in a certain salute. These monsters can't sit with us.
Yup! AuDHD here. I am occasionally accidentally rude, out of ignorance. I'm really bad with oversharing. I'll ask a question that people find inappropriate, things like that. I've never assaulted someone or engaged in white supremacy. It infuriates me that they're trying to use this as an excuse.
Also, being bad at social skills this doesn't mean you don't seek to improve. I know my weak spots, so I put in effort to shore them up. Just because they're not my strengths doesn't mean I'm INCAPABLE of improvement. Anyone who defaults to their struggle as an excuse to repeat a behavior and make no effort to change isn't simply struggling, they're making excuses not to give care and concern while demanding accommodation for them and _only_ them.
In my experience autism + npd in cis men is a horrible combo, because they are trying to achieve all the narcissist goals, but can't read the room to know when they are going way overboard and just disgusting people. My dad has that combo, fortunately he is not a physical abuser or anything, but he's not a lot of fun to be around to say the least.
It disgusting. Also it's notable only rich white men get away with this excuse, the rest of us get held to a higher standard (as we all should be). It's protects a particular subset of ND people: wealthy, powerful, successful, white men.
It also feels distinctly ableist we're so out of touch as autistics we just run around being dreadful people or something.
My diagnosis is still fresh enough that I'm busy trying to figure out what kind of accommodations would be reasonable for me to ask other people to make and what kind of stuff I need to find ways to deal with even though it's tough for me.
Other people having ridiculous expectations about the kind of behaviours that should be excused - very unhelpful. It makes me feel icky just for bringing up my neurodivergence
I once went home with a guy I had known a few years prior. I felt safe with him. Back at his place, he nearly killed me during ”the act” and I pretended to sleep next to him the entire night so he wouldn’t get violent when stopping me from leaving. As soon as the sun came up I grabbed my stuff very quietly and he didn’t wake up until I was unlocking the door. I pretended to be happy with the encounter and said ”talk to you later”. I got home and blocked him on all platforms. He managed to find me with a new account saying he didn’t understand why I ”just left” and that I had forgotten my scarf. I blocked him immediately and thankfully haven’t seen him since. Fawning saved my life.
+ yes I have C-PTSD and ”people pleasing tendencies”. Sometimes previous trauma actually helps you survive other trauma. Though that is obviously the only time when PTSD ”helps”.
That's horrible, I'm so sorry. It really sucks to have to be all smiley and nice to someone who seriously wronged you, but sometimes it can save your life.
I've had a similar experience. I'm so glad we survived. And so sad that you had to go through it too.
@@Niobesnuppa❤❤
@@jlmorgan615❤ I’m glad we might it out
As someone who is not prone to fawning in threatening situations, I can promise you that there's a good reason so many people fawn. I have been traumatized as hell by my inability to just go along with abusive people. It's just my nature to be stubborn, dig my heels in, and stick to my "no", and the reaction to that by abusive people with power over you is NOT charitable. Being a fighter is not a "noble" thing. Nobody is a "better" victim because they fight back against emotional, verbal, physical, or sexual abuse. Fighting back just provoke rage, just gets them angry, and does not spare you the trauma. Fawners are perfectly valid as victims, doing whatever their instincts say will get the least violent reaction. It's the _smart_ response, and that doesn't make them more moral or commendable than my brute strength fight response, that's just a different way to react to abuse.
It's such an easy way to derail the conversation. If you're stuck having to talk about how you reacted, that deflects from talking about the behaviour of the abuser. Anything but talking about the abuse itself. And then people wonder why 'it took people so long to come forward'. You can never get it right no matter how you do it. But abusers get all the leeway in the world.
Thank you so much, I feel so validated. Especially as a man being prone to that is seen as deeply shameful here in Finland.
It's not 'fawning', you ridiculous person. It's adult consent.
Gaimann didn't coerce the women with a blow torch. They consented.
@@EmilyAdams-q1h He is a white millionaire, powerful man. That is a fact, not a claim. He was also way older than his victims, girls in their 20's. He was also the boss of one right?, so there you have at least 3 advantage points for him to coerce them into consent. He knows what he is doing, he writes about abuse of power all the time.
@@EmilyAdams-q1h Did we hear the same story? The events described here had me grinding my teeth with a sickening knot growing in my stomach. Your take is no blowtorch torture equals no coersion? Lay off the copium.
It's so heartbreaking to hear about what he did to those women. And it's a kick to the face because I LOVED some of his work, especially Coraline, but now everything feels ruined. The Lovecraft comparison is spot on. I love what he did for the genre of horror, but it's hard to enjoy his work when the casual racism is just ever-present in his stories.
I feel as though if what you like of Coraline is the movie, do not let the fact that he wrote the novella tarnish that movie for you. They're different enough to be considered separate from one another, in my opinion.
I feel like you can love the art and still separate it from the artist. I also feel very much that you can also love the sinner without loving the sin. That’s what my housemate told me when it comes to the whole JK Rowling situation.
@@victoriasalter1701 death of the author doesn't really work logically if the author isn't dead, imo, but maybe I'm doing my own kind of mental gymnastics so I can keep my Coraline (directed and written by Henry Selick) tho admittedly I'm not really pushing for separation of art from the artist, I'm pushing for giving credit where credit is due (and refusing to give it where it isn't, which is why I find it worth emphasizing that Henry Selick is probably the better guy to give credit for the 2009 film Coraline, given he wrote the screenplay and directed the project. Neil Gaiman himself has been very clear that he was not particularly involved in the project. So why act like he was? Why let his scuzzy nature tarnish something that is much bigger than him and quite easy to attribute to others, as he has done himself? Why not give credit to the people that deserve it?)
The only way I can engage with Lovecraft's work (which to me is very important) is through heavy criticism of his person. He could've chosen to write about the same subjects from a different (for example, less racist) perspective, but that's who he was. I can enjoy and reference a piece of art while acknowledging the disgust I feel for the person who made it and how it affected the work. I don't believe in separating the art from the artist, because that art would never exist without the artist, and it's always going to be formed by the artist's personality. I think we have to remember that where there was nothing they created something, and you can't do that without putting pieces of yourself there. However, this works much better when the person is dead and incapable of causing more harm.
I think I'll personally wait until Gaiman is dead and buried before I try to engage with his work again.
@@arbyswitch5580 This is me with Stardust. It's one of my favorite movies of all time, but from what I hear it's definitely different from the book as well.
A lot of people have commented comparing Neil Gaiman with the character of Richard Madoc, the main villain from the Calliope issue and episode of Sandman, but that line "That's the whole point, darling. Writers make things up" is eerily similar to the line he gave to the other author/abuser in that story, Erasmus Fry: "Writers are liars my dear. Surely you have realised that by now?"
Yikes
It's terrifying, I feel he's been putting sly jokes in, across his work and talks etc. the red riding hood and the wolf one scares me, really shows what he thinks of women.
😊M
Pavlovich’s story reminds me of Lisbeth from ‘The Girl Who Kicked The Hornet’s Nest’.
@@charlotteclarke3393
Except he's not a liar
What is he a liar about
Amanda Palmer is a great example of this forced fake spirituality that is so helpful when you can't be bothered to call a spade a spade and a rapist - a rapist. Sounds like she lost more after the divorce, and honestly, no compassion for her, but isn't it telling that enabling women still suffer worse consequences than abusive men.
Re. Amanda: it's no coincidence that she hired vulnerable young girls off the street, instead of hiring middle-aged or older women with impressive training and credentials. The latter is what rich parents do -- unless they have another motive.
If you're at all technically inclined, turning off Javascript is an option for reading the Vulture article. It's a bit fiddly, but worth it for important information.
Considering her past history of refusing to pay her support acts and keeping money for failed projects instead of returning it to the donors, plus her habit of hitting up fans for accomodation instead of using hotels it might also be that she's incredibly miserly.
Professional nannies are expensive, Young starstruck fans are cheap!
@@voiceofraisin3778not just miserly but also knows that these people are much easier to exploit. It’s a lot easier not stiff someone pay when you know they can’t afford to file in small claims court or take time off to go after their missing money.
@@voiceofraisin3778That just sounds like more of the same pattern of manipulating and exploiting fans & whoever she has power over.
Extremely telling to me that she offered to pay Pavlovich the first time she sent her to Gaiman’s house alone when she wasn’t regularly doing that.
I cannot see how it could be anything other than completely deliberate to be honest. She told Gaiman to stay away because he could “really hurt her”
Amanda Palmer sent a young, very vulnerable woman who was financially reliant on her to visit Neil Gaiman’s house alone. Before doing so, she explicitly told him that this woman was particularly vulnerable. I don’t even think she was willfully ignorant or an enabler. She’s not stupid, she knew fucking exactly what she was doing.
If she genuinely had no idea at the time, she would have supported Pavlovich when she went to the cops instead of refusing to speak to them. She would have supported her now as she speaks out about it. If she actually really truly didn’t know, she would have made sure he couldn’t see their son after finding out that Gaiman abused women in front of him with such frequency he started picking up on the language his father used towards his victims. Palmer has acted at every turn exactly like an abuser or accomplice would have, because that’s what she was/is
Amanda allegedly has her own history. There's a Whisper Network about her too. A lot of stories of her kissing and groping young fans.
@@electricmosswitch she also warned Neil that he was about to be Me Too'd.
The "never meet your heroes" statement is more true to this day. I'm tired of people in power using their fans for their own sick and disgusting "fantasies." I'm so sick of this cycle that keeps repeating itself to where a celebrity or a youtuber that people thought they can trust, just abuse that trust to their own personal gain, and unfortunately these fans end up getting traumatized for life. I know these are tough subjects but thank you Rachel, for wanting to continue to bring awareness for people to not be fooled by people like Neil Gaiman. I just want to say sorry to the people who loved Neil Gaiman's work before these allegations came to light
Can't one just for once be able to enjoy a nice book, movie or song without having to worry about the creator being a degenerate creep? Just once? It's not that hard to be a decent person.
Hell, I don't even care if they're a decent person. Be a rude prick for all I care, just don't r**e people.
@torkelsvenson6411 all my heroes are either dead or creeps
Just once, dammit!
Legit, jus a few minutes ago I saw a video of the developer of the game Bad Parenting is a pedo ugh
Also the dev of Cry Of Fear, both amazin games but the devs :///
Maybe consume more media made by women and marginalized creators. I hate when people do this whole "oh, we can't have anything now, every artist is a scumbag" thing when it actually pertains to a minority of men who get all of the accolades. Meanwhile a lot of talented artists who are also good people have small audiences and could benefit from more support of their craft.
I think Amanda Palmer does bear responsibility for her own lack of boundaries with fans. However Neil Gaiman is responsible for each and every thing he did and I expect he did subject his wife to some abuse because.... that's just how it works usually.
I feel very little sympathy for Amanda Palmer. However, I'm reserving full judgment because she's still in a bitter custody battle over their poor kid, that has dragged on for 5 years. I expect she will eventually break her silence, at the latest when the kid is 18. Still, she should have known much better and, by the time she was already divorcing him, have the presence of mind to not put more vulnerable, young women alone in a house with neil gailman...
Yeah. I think the focus should stay on Neil for the most part because he committed actual crimes, but Amanda shouldn't get off the hook. Her relationship with fans is beyond inappropriate, but as far as we know now she didn't do anything illegal. I still dislike her, though, and if she had any knowledge of what he was doing to those women she's disgusting. But he needs to be the one getting the most flack, not his wife.
He is primarily responsible, but it does appear that she was knowingly enabling his abuse in a meaningful way. Throwing vulnerable women to him like chew toys, then mopping up what’s left.
The thing that bothers me most is that the internet's calls for Neil Gaiman's head are far tamer than the backlash currently directed at Amanda Palmer. I've also seen threats directed at their child, which makes me sick. Regardless of the crimes of the parent or how one feels about the parents/their creations...that's just not okay. Thankfully moderators has been swift in removing the majority of those kinds of comments, but I still hate that I came across it, and that someone posted it in the first place. Especially considering I've been trying to avoid much of the coverage/commentary.
Something else that bothers me is that a lot of people are comparing Amanda to Ghislaine Maxwell or otherwise saying she served up victims tp Neil, or that she somehow was the sinister mastermind behind his actions (...like. What? Before they were married, too? Before they even met? How does that work?) Is she perfect? No. Has she made mistakes? Yes. Should she take responsibility for her mistakes? Of course. (As should we all.)
I read the same article as everyone else and didn't come to that conclusion at all. Idk, maybe people are bad at reading comprehension...(or it could be an issue with my own media literacy, who knows.) I've listened to the podcast that broke the story and followed the situation since it first came to light, so maybe something was missing from the New Yorker article? (I thought it was really well done, but that's the only thing I could come up with as to why I have such an apparently different take from some folks.) If more information comes to light that confirms the "evil mastermind" narrative, I'll update my views...but for now I'm just wary of the apparent glee of people have spreading conspiracy theories and sending threats to both her and the kid.
I find the warped narratives and the harsher backlash directed at her (compared to her ex-husband) to be telling. And honestly disturbing. Especially considering she's one of those figures people love to hate And also because the internet seems to love a dogpile directed at women (especially those who are vocal and/or "shameless" or whatever the quality is that somehow justifies this behavior.)
The impression I got from reading what the various people have said about it, is that Neil treats his relationship partners differently than he does his sexual partners outside those relationships. It doesn't sound like he did any of that really dodgy stuff to his actual wives and girlfriends - he reserved that for the vulnerable women who he didn't have any romantic/emotional attachment to.
I guess the two groups of women serve different needs for him. And if that's the case, than Amanda may not have known the full scope of what he was doing until the other women started to come to her and tell her. But she must have known something wasn't right, so I agree that she's not blameless in what's happened to those women - especially the ones she introduced to him after she had been told what he'd been up to.
This is so off topic but I have to say - the way your dog looks at you with so much love when you’re speaking is just the sweetest! Brought a bit of light to such a dark topic 😭
The whole Gaiman situation is so difficult- thank you for handling it with your customary gentleness and sensitivity, Rachel!
Poop. That is all you need to know.
It's only difficult for people who got roped in by him.
Same- it’s difficult for me because I’m an SA survivor and Rachel’s coverage is the only one I’ve been able to watch on this case 😢 I do care about what happened, it can just trigger my diagnosed PTSD.
I do 100% believe that separating the artist from the art is possible, however I agree that something like this forever taints an artists work for me personally. I really love Kanye’s music, some of it really impacted my life at times. I still believe it’s incredible music but I cannot bring myself to listen now.
Personally in these cases I like an approach of acknowledging the artist behind the art, and pointing out parts that are tainted (?) while engaging with it. The artist is forever a piece of their work, and they can't be fully separated - but they can be not directly supported while viewing the art (🏴☠️).
The artists interpretation and intent (and bank account) _can_ be seperated from the piece, though. Which is called death of the author, I believe, and what most people mean when they say to separate the artist.
Especially because the people he hurt were fans and used his fame to manipulate them. It feels closely tied to his career in that way.
same with jk rowling too
I feel the same about JK Rowling. I had to drop HP a long time ago but watching her attack cis (North) African women last summer and onward for not fitting into the w. supremacist ideal of feminity broke my heart all over again. She truly became the villain she taught us to fight against.
💔
My empathies. My love of Ahsoka Tano was ruined by the alleged transphobia and violent abuse of the person cast to play her in live action. Ahsoka got me through a really rough time in my life, and the human sense of betrayal when art you love involves people who act in ways that harm others, especially people a lot like you, hurts you like few things do.
i think the scientology aside is a really important part of the story that people are glossing over, probably because they're not very familiar. gaiman being an auditor at a young age essentially taught him the skills needed to manipulate people. auditing in scientology is just authoritative hypnosis, and and when asked for comment in the article gaiman doesn't really condemn it. if anything, it further condemns the church to me, because they are actively teaching abuse tactics as spiritual wellness, and even those who don't actively practice still go on to harm others with that knowledge.
I'm surprised more people aren't talking about his connection to that "church" considering there are documentaries about how horrible it is and the trauma formers members have gone through after leaving.
Thank you! That's what I said, they raised him to be manipulative
i had just finished American Gods right before the news broke. I remember thinking that a lot of the sex scenes were unnecessary and also unnecessarily graphic. Not just that but the female characters were just boiled down to either sex objects or props for the male characters. Unfortunately now it makes sense why these things rubbed me up the wrong way
Oh interesting. I've never read the novel, but I watched the TV show where the creators made the decision to let characters have sex right in the beginning. Gaiman took the moral highground and said he would rather go into open traffic than give the Ok, because of the opening being so sexually explicit already...
I was always weirded out by the bit on the roof where Shadow is talking with the youngest Zorya sister and there's an unnecessary description of how he could see through her nightdress. Granted, she's an ageless avatar, but physically, SHE'S A TEENAGER.
Yeah there's a r@pe scene in Sandman I haven't been able to stop thinking about since I heard about this. An author captures a muse and abuses her and uses her to become famous, and there's this scene where the narration says he liked how she "choked back her tears like a child" when he r@ped her. I always thought that was extremely weird and gross with what we know now it's a whole other level of horrifying 🤮
@@ValerieEnriquez Damn yeah I'd forgotten about that scene. Unfortunately nearly all the women in the book are treated like this
Yes! I've always felt that his writing indicates fundamentally misunderstanding about boundaries in his own life. Which was particularly upsetting with his books for younger people.
I HATE having to be super skeptical of "male feminists"...but OF COURSE
A "male feminist" is an oxymoron. At best, a man can be an ally, since a man's existence in itself is a danger to women. There can never be a safe space as long as males live together with women. So unless they wanna off themselves, they can't be a real feminist.
I mean, it's weird when somebody makes an identity out of being an ally to another group unless they work in the field or something. Like it's one thing if you were a white person working for the NAACP, because then what are you supposed to do, lie about your job? But I don't go around saying I am an anti-racist ally or whatever, like, I would certainly hope so, and it's just weird to try to socially profit off of another group having hardship.
If someone is just actually talking about feminist issues without doing the performative "I'm a feminist, I'm an ally" thing, they're usually good, but any man who repeatedly says "I'm a feminist" outright is immediately suspicious to me, especially if he also makes hyperbolic statements like "all men suck", I just don't believe they actually think that.
Absolutely insane that she refused to pay her despite being a millionaire. I sometimes dogsit for my neighbors to be kind and they still pay me. The dogs are well-behaved. But children are so much harder to care for and take so much energy, shocking.
She has a history of this. From not paying her backing band to pocketing fan’s money from failed and cancelled projects
Amanda knew, Ghislaine knew, Melania knows.
Absolutely! It's sad that these evil enablers never face any repercussions 😢
I keep seeing people dragging Amanda Palmer through the mud seemingly on no basis other than that she was married to him. That’s hardly a strong foundation to fling such devastating accusations. For all we know, she was a victim of his herself. I’m not advocating that she is, but we simply do not know. This past summer, I saw her perform some unreleased songs she wrote during their divorce, and the lyrics really made it sound to me like he may have mentally abused her, at the least. And she has, throughout her career, been incredibly outspoken in her anti-SA advocacy. She has raised a lot of money for survivors, and has written many songs on the topic, being an SA survivor herself. Do you mean to suggest that was all a facade? Unless I’m missing something?
Amanda has groped me and many other young, queer and disabled people. She is also a predator
its not because amanda was married to gaiman but because people suspect that she intentionally supplied women to him knowing they would be abused. Scarlett alleges that when she came to gaimans house after being employed by amanda as a nanny, the child was on a play date and she and gaiman were alone. She also claims Palmer told her 14 different women had come to her with the same complaint after scarlett confided in her about the sexual abuse@@xhappyponyxwasmyoldname1395
@@xhappyponyxwasmyoldname1395 You should read the full article- there are plenty of links that get around the paywall if you search for them. Amanda Palmer might also be a victim- I don't actually doubt that she is one in part- but she certainly didn't help any of the other victims and often did enable Gaiman and that is backed up by the article. I personally wouldn't say she's on the same level as Ghislaine but she did put at least one woman into contact with Gaiman knowing that he could victimism them- and allegedly even told Gaiman that 'he couldn't have this one' regarding the nanny she'd hired and sent to his house. She also chose not to cooperate with police when Pavlovich (the nanny) filed a report against Gaiman- despite Pavlovich thinking that she would and I'll quote from the article here : “I said to them, ‘She’s a public feminist, and she knows what happened. She’ll want to protect me. I’m sure she’ll speak.’” - That's pretty terrible in my opinion and something that shouldn't be swept under the rug.
Also, regarding Palmer's possible complicity - I find it very...interesting that she arranged a play date for her son that took him away from the house the first time she sent Scarlett to Gaiman. It wouldn't surprise me if Palmer stayed silent and did damage control for Gaiman after putting women in danger in order to keep Gaiman from steamrolling her in the divorce.
Exactly, I was wondering about this particular detail too...
I actually think that she enjoyed seeing other women destroyed by Gaiman. I think that's part of her twisted nature.
Yes. That struck me as very deliberate as if she were giving Pavlovich to Gaiman since she definitely knew he had a history of making advances to and having relationships with young women.
She might not have realized what he was doing in terms of how he was treating them. a lot of people have a kink for the woman introducing other women to their male partner for sex, in a way that is consensual to everybody. I like doing that-- like, I'm not going to scope someone out and fake become friends with them just to seduce them, but if I can tell that there is chemistry between my partner and someone else I like to encourage it. If your husband is not abusive to you, you wouldn't expect that he is an abuser, and if he is abusive to you, your judgment may be compromised. There is nothing wrong with matchmaking, the problem is the abuse.
It is as if she picked the most vulnerable woman she could find and fed her to him. It's disgusting.
What people tell their own therapists is not evidence, as therapists are supposed to take what they are told as true (or at least treat it as true). So Gaiman and his therapist using his therapy as "proof" she was lying is sick. And this therapist clearly seems to be violating ethical guidelines.
I knew of the fight flight and freeze but not about the fawn option. Hits home really hard because I blamed myself for being too nice (which didn’t seem like one of those other three things someone does in danger) so I thought it was my own fault for being too nice. But I tried to be nice to get out of the situation without angering him. Thank you for speaking about these situations because it gives me a sense of being able to accept it wasn’t my fault.
I also default to fawn, which is so bizarre because it's just out of character for me, but I can't help it. Basically you don't have any control over which "setting" triggers, and women are generally encouraged to appease men regardless of their own boundaries, so I'd imagine it's a pretty common one. It was never your fault, you were just trying to survive.
I'm surprised it took so long for society to make the connection. I'm sure we've all seen an animal encounter where it seems like the animal is friendly, but in reality, they are freekyimg out.
Yeah, don't under credit yourself, I'm sure you instinctively knew which option was the safest. I have played along before when I realized I wasn't going to get out of it and didn't want to escalate to a violent rape instead of a coercive rape. I'm not embarrassed or ashamed at all, I avoided being harmed further by bullshitting this guy to his face.
I'm so happy were helped by this info. I've done all 4 responses and fawn is the one people don't understand and use to undermine your truama. It's really sad.
When i reflect on fawning I feel a lot of shame (which I shouldn't at all, no one should) because it seems counter intuitive. But we see animals do it all the time to stop aggression, which is to say its as natural as the other 3 danger responses. Even freeze gets seen as an illegitimate response. We need way more education on these responses to danger, abuse and trauma.
None of us should feel bad for our natural reactions and I hope knowing all 4 can happen brings people some peace.
Fawning is as much of a trauma response as fight, flight and freeze are, and it does not imply consent.
You are not responsible for what happened to you. Please take care of yourself 🖤
My first sexual experience I did not fully understand consent and it led me to hurt someone I really cared about. That experience has stayed with me everyday since and made me reflect and learn so I would never hurt anyone like that ever again. Whenever I am intimate or talk about sex with my current boyfriend I always make sure to remind him that his safety and comfort are the most important thing to me. I make sure to clearly communicate our boundaries and safe words. I can’t imagine hurting someone so deeply and not having it permanently change how you approach relationships and sex. It’s disgusting and a clear disregard for the wellbeing of anyone but yourself.
What did you do?
❤🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
This is really common with young people. If you don't teach kids about consent, they'll learn sex and love from bullshit in movies and books, then discover that's no good the hard way by hurting each other. I'm sorry that you and your first weren't given the tools needed to know how to be safe and healthy. We keep failing kids this way as a culture and there's not enough urgency to make the needed changes.
I have fumbled it before too. It wasn't failure to get consent in the first place so much as my partner was facing the other direction and started dissociating and getting triggered, but I misinterpreted the noises they were making as sex noises, so I was basically unknowingly sexually assaulting them for like 10 minutes. They weren't mad at me because it was obvious what had happened and why, but it's still a really fucked up situation and I feel bad about it.
And yes, we figured out a system after that. Have the person Who tends to dissociate hold onto an item in a way that you would have to be purposely holding onto it to continue to signal consent, and if they drop it you stop.
I remember, a few years ago, some comments by Amanda that she (and maybe Neil) went on tours and couchsurfed in fans houses.
I lived with a girlfriend at the time and thought "how awesome would it be to host these two?"
Now that send shivers down my spine.
I read the article about gaiman which detailed the abuse that you posted on screen. It was hard to read. His abuse was so shocking and revolting and stomach turning. I don't think I can read any of his things going forward. I was also severely disappointed by his wife, it is worth mentioning. She knew.
Also their son should probably be removed from their homes.
This
Lol. Get a grip.
@@EmilyAdams-q1h Excuse?? Reading and discussing about horrifying abuse isn’t exactly a “get a grip” situation
@It absolutely is a 'get a grip' situation.
No one died. Nothing happened. Adult women engaged in consensual activity and are now grifting to monetize their sexuality (like all women eagerly do in 2025) by claiming to have been 'raped' by technicality in the media.
Lol, this is precisely why women are viewed as children and always will be. You bring it on yourselves.
@@EmilyAdams-q1h ok abuser
I was just getting into some of his work before I discovered all the allegations. The way he addressed them is STILL fucked. Even if his version of the story is true, he was taking advantage of people who could not consent due to the power dynamic with him, especially with the girl who relied on nanny money financially.
I hate it so much, it feels like every single day it's a new man who is confirmed to have done stuff like this and to get away with it. I feel like at this point I literally can't trust any men because no green flag is green enough, any green flag you think of has men who had that feature and were still horrible.
Even in situations where you can argue that the women in question were in positions to consent, the kind of pressure present due his power is uncomfortable at the very least. It might not be illegal but it is definitely questionable!
Omg! The 'power dynamic'!
Yes, grrrrl! We need to raise the age of consent to 45 because women have no agency! Grrl power!
they weren't even paying her. She didn't get any money until later - so they were exploiting her in multiple ways.
@@sashakononova8968 Especially with public figures, when you're only being shown a carefully curated image so you can't rely on that. Decent dudes really do exist in real life but nobody is perfect. Humans are flawed. But there are definitely good ones in the mix - spotting them is the hard part
Video idea: Deep dive into Autism speaks. (A collab with I'm Autistic, Now What? would be awesome)
Yes! I'd love to hear Rachel touch on this really important subject. We need as many advocates and allies as possible to help keep pushing the paradigm shift in how we as a society treat and think about autism.
we love that channel!
He was one of my favourite authors. I'm actually devastated. Not to mention, I first found out about this just after I'd read a couple of his books
Same I've not touched the sandman books since which is a shame cause I've been meaning to get back to them, and this has left a bad taste in my mouth
also, re: the 'misreading social cues' excuse - i'm autistic, have bpd and severe anxiety.
i frequently misread social cues.
someone repeatedly and clearly telling me *no* is not a social cue i have ever misread, because it's not a cue, it's loud communication and i know what it means. i know i need to stop, step back, and re-evaluate what i'm doing. it's frustrating and insulting that predators and fascists feel like being 'socially awkward' is an excuse for heinous shit.
I know more than one person who went on to date their rapist after. I think on top of what you said about the fawning response, it's also a societal thing where we are trained to blame ourselves and feel so much guilt that some people respond by telling themselves it was their fault, it was consensual, etc, and that's how a lot of these turn into really abusive relationships.
Dude fr my stepmom married her first husband BECAUSE he SA’d her:( she came from a small extremely religious Christian town and thought she had to marry the man she did that with even though she literally didn’t consent to any of it 😢 and of course, it was an extremely abusive marriage. As a society we have to stop blaming victims for the actions of ab*sers. No one wants those things to happen to them- and the ab*ser knew better 🙄 they live on those planet. They just don’t care.
Seems Gaiman is willing to pay for therapy for virtually anyone other than himself (at least a quality therapist that actually holds him accountable and expects him to put in the work.)
It may be that he sought out a therapist that wouldn't challenge his harmful behavior both so he could feel better about himself and also so he could use the presence of said therapist as an excuse/shield when "apologizing" to his victims (e.g. "I'm sorry, I'm going to therapy to get better")
The discussion of sexual fawning is timely and it is something that needs to be talked about more. I can think of at least one time in my life where I would have acted very differently if I had known about the concept or thought more carefully about what was happening. Damn.
I wasn't aware of the links to Scientology, but honestly, that makes a lot of sense. Probably thought he was entitled to his victims. 🤢
I was a much bigger fan of Amanda Palmer than I ever was of Neil Gaiman, and I haven't seen anyone else talking about her role in this. Thank you for making this video and discussing the nuances of it. It's really important that this information is out there
This is almost impossible for me to get through.......what an irredeemable person he is. Sending hope for healing to the brave women who spoke out.
So -- I say this as a fiction writer myself -- people have GOT to get over the idea that being a writer who can create sympathetic characters or engage with human themes automatically makes you a good person. Fiction writers often have an ability to view people in very dispassionate and disconnected ways, as tools to be used in a story or, sadly, in real life too sometimes. I'm not saying this is a necessary trait for being a writer, but being an author does not mean you're more empathetic toward real people. You may actually be less empathetic, especially when presented with the level of power and opportunities for control that being a famous writer brings. This is a horrendous case of abuse imo and I don't think I could read Gaiman's work now as I'd be looking for signs in it of what he really is. But, I also really respect your position of separating art from artist because I think it is possible in many cases, especially with older works.
This entire situation didn't just ruin Gaiman for me, it also ruined Amanda Palmer for me. I used to love her music because it felt so raw and personal. But now, knowing that not only did she know about these women and remained silent, but also knowingly gave Gaiman more victims? She is dead to me too.
such a heart-wrenching situation. coraline, the graveyard book, good omens, etc were stories i grew up on. it’s so difficult to square that with all of this
right? like we were just getting back into good omens.
@@laughatdarkness1286he got kicked off the show so won't be contributing to the last season at least
This entire situation is awful- what a disgusting man! I hope he gets the punishment and shame that he deserves and I hope the women who’s lives he affected get all the support in the world
I read Coraline with my kid last year and I read the Sandman in college. He's been a favorite writer of mine for decades. My heart is 🤬ing broken.
I'm sorry. I've felt similar hurt before, it's awful, and I wish you kindness to yourself as you ride the emotions out.
Coraline has been one of my favorite books since childhood. It really is heartbreaking and horrible.
Amanda and her whole "the art of asking" is so obnoxious. It's so obvious that she thought high enough of her self to believe her presence was her contribution to people.
My art is the gift and I get a nanny in return? 🤮 sickening... I'm only now learning how the nanny was a fan and it just pissed me off as the final cherry to the shit Sunday.
I just saw Alizee's video, I'm so glad you're also talking about this!
To the people who do not understand how you can end up in multiple abusive situations, I will explain it how my therapist explained it to me: a red flag is like someone coming at you and it hurts, therefore you retreat so the abuser backs off. But when you have been abused in the past, you are used to the pain, so you do not have the instinct to back off, because you have been used to the pain. You stay. So the abuser knows you are vulnerable and that they can manipulate you. It is not your fault, but, good news, it is something that you can learn to avoid (with therapy). Also abusers love people who are isolated because it is easy for them to make them fully dependent on the abuser... that has power. When you have nowhere to go... it is scarier to leave than to put up with the pain. Speaking from my own experience, leaving was the best thing I ever did. It wasn't easy and I doubted my decision many times before I managed to stabilize and get back to myself. I wish all people who are in the position I was to be able to find a way back to themselves and thrive.
Crazy to see Gaiman's career ending with a Gaimanesque horror twist. I can't believe we didn't see it coming.
Thank you once again, Rachel!!!
32:52 Did a double take because for a second I thought you said "I hope he gets therapy in Hell" and ngl I chuckled
What wounds me so deeply is that this came out of nowhere. Nobody was surpised by Marilyn Manson except for people in denial. But what's terrifying is that Gaiman hid it. So. Well.
As a Millenial, I had to cut off so many media, I used to love as a child, from my adult life. Grief has become such a core part of my experience as a media consumer. I wish, I had been taught early on to never put artists on pedestal, all it does is give them power and influence over vulnerable people.
💔
The thing with separating the art from the artist is it’s one thing when there just kind of a dick, totally different when they’re racist, homophobic, a r*pist. Especially when you’re giving them money and keeping them as an influential figure.
I was looking for a video about this today and I didn't know which one to click on. I was hoping that you would make a video about it because I only trust you when it comes to sensitive topics.
I love how your pup is trying to comfort you. ❤
The people who can't separate the art from the artist is the victims. I always imagine how horrible it must feel if you hear your abusers song, or see them on a magazine, or hear people praising their work.
For me i just can't separate the two.
Oh my god I was already watching another video about this. Thank you for making it
While understanding that Gaiman was conditioned by his upbringing, there is an argument to be made for not wanting to inflict suffering on others.
Gaiman sounds like a sociopath with no capacity for empathy, except maybe for intellectualised compassion and understanding, hence his "feminism".
Your sweet dog made this easier to listen to ❤
Came here to say the same thing, those grumbles and adoring gazes!
At least Lovecraft never SA'd anyone, and he changed his views later in life, before his early death robbed him of the opportunity to further evolve. Now that I'm looking back I can think of so many instances in Gaiman's stories where women are tortured. Dream and Nada. Richard Madoc. Its like he was confessing.
Yeah, when I first heard about this, I thought Calliope was a fucking self-report. Even the "I'm a male feminist" and "Writers are liars, my dear" lines. It's so GROSS.
We can't be so sure about Lovecraft. He could be a predator but he kept it well-hidden that no one uncovered it
@@Kalitayywith how he was? Unlikely. But also we shouldn’t try to make worse a man who was deeply unwell and whose extreme xenophobia stemmed from seemingly literal fear.
Women are tortured in a lot of fiction, as are men, by creators who aren't sinister.
@@Kalitayy there is no reason to presume he was a predator.
"How much did she know?" EVERYTHING! SHE KNEW EVERYTHING!
I've been having alot of feelings about this situation - it's heartbreaking. I've loved Gaiman's work for over 20 years (many have been fans for far longer!); something in his style hit just right with me and i consistently enjoyed his work over the years. Coraline is one of my daughter's favorite movies (she loves spooky stuff). I have a recording of him reading The Truth is a Cave in the Black Mountains that i've listened to, in his voice, over and over. It feels like every good thing i have ever felt or learned while enjoying this work is soiled now.
I'm just so, so disappointed.
Regarding Amanda Palmer, she is going through a divorce from Gaiman that has dragged into a fifth year. She has probably refrained from speaking with anyone regarding Gaiman because of the ongoing divorce proceedings. After having read the Vulture article I am left with the opinion that Palmer should have known better but I do not think she was involved with Neil's crimes. I also believe she is a victim of Gaiman's as well. She should have known better and she could have done better to help the vulnerable women in Gaiman's life, but blame for his crimes lies solely with Gaiman. I am not an Amanda Palmer apologist, but I know that she is in a vulnerable spot because of the divorce and custody issues and probably can't talk about anything due to the pending case.
This video suddenly made me realise why that guy hasn't updated his tumblr in months, didn't even know about this whole mess
Guess I'm back to following Chuck Tingle, at least he's chill and respectful :,)
YEA I noticed that too!
pounded in the butt by my fave gothy/arty graphic novelist's allegations
thank you for putting the book Consent: A Memoir on my radar, it is much needed
I really appreciate how you and leez/vangelina tackle thesd stories, it makes it less overwhelming to be informed on them than if we were to look into it by ourselves
Hope that makes sense, bad brain fog today
Thanks for your video!!! Hope youre well!
2:46 rereading The Silkworm by JK Rowling’s malefake identity and my god, the transphobia is so much more transparent than I remembered the first time.
Thank you for posting this. I have zero interest in celebrity gossip but have enjoyed their work in the past.
This is sickening. Sorry you had to research this but I am grateful to you for bringing us a conscientious appraisal of the situation.
We must be good medicine for each other. Thank you for your work Rachel❤
"Male feminist" is such an interesting term, because why would you need to explain that a feminist isn't female? It's kind of like saying "female football player, she plays football, but for girls!"
Anyone who describes themselves as a “male feminist” gives me bad vibes. Somewhere between self-congratulatory and “methinks he doth protests too much.”
@@warlordofbritanniaThey need to be called pro-feminists, as they should be in a support role. Men cannot be feminists, and it’s “cute” when they get mad at hearing that.
Because feminism is about and for females (?)
Chris Shelton has two videos about Neil Gaiman and his involvement with Scientology. Chris makes great videos about Scientology.
Tony Ortega also wrote an article about Neil Gaiman and how far he got into Scientology.
Omg yes. His channel was very comforting for me when I deconverting from evangelicalism.
I've been avoiding info because ive been a fan since i was a preteen and now am 34. Even got my 13yr old daughter into his work. I'm disgusted as a human and as a victim who tends to fawn.
I hoped you would make a video about this unfortunate topic. As a fan of Gaiman for longer than you've been alive, I am very, VERY disappointed in him.
I'm getting a real Epstein/Ghislaine vibe when it comes to the allegations involving Gaiman and his ex-wife, Palmer. I realize the cases are not the same - evil is like a snowflake, each manifestation special in its own way - but there's a good deal in common.
Yes, I was thinking that too.
31:21 As an American, I and others around me are also horrified at what’s unfolding around us.
I just started this video. And as someone who has read Neil gaiman since I was merely 6 years old… I’m very sad to have to hear this. I’m glad you made a video for me because I have been keeping out of the news about it
What a shame Terry Pratchett's name will be forever tarnished by association...
It won’t.
Sir Terry Pratchett's name will thankfully remain clean. He wrote the majority of Good Omens and they did so by sending text through emails. Pratchett would not have worked with NG if he'd known how he treated women.
@@Adara007 That's a relief.
I was waiting - I knew you'd have thoughtful commentary!
I feel horrible for these women and hope they find healing in each other and their supporters. Despicable that he had all the resources in the world to seek treatment for his own trauma, but he chose to be disgusting instead. Irredeemable.
That sweater is so cool, btw!
If you guys still want to read his book for any reason remember you can thrift them :)
Or get them from the library!
his books are boring as hell lol, but that’s true there are more than enough of them in circulation
coraline was such a treasure to me. he is VILE. VILEEEE
I have a friend who met Amanda Palmer when she was young at a Dresden Doll concert.
Apparently, she's very dismissive with some of her young girl fans and overly friendly with others. She got the vibe that she's had predatory ways even before Neil Gaiman came into the picture.
I’ve been dreading this but yeah. We need to talk about him and Danny Elfman.
Danny Elfman too?!
🙃
Also a scientologist.@@moustik31
Thank you so much for this video! I heard about this but it seemed so complex and chaotic to me that I didn't even know where to start informing myself. So thank you for your work and research 💖💖
This.
Well. Time not to never read Gaiman again.
I've tried to stay away from this, because I fear the truth. His writings have been very important to me. But I trust you, Rachel. You've always been on the side of the angels.
Thanks for doing this deep dive. It's taken me too long to learn about this because Gaiman was my favorite author for more than a decade and it is so soul crushing to know that someone I respected and admired so much is such a monster. It makes me feel like I should never love any creator. I knew you'd approach this in a way that I could handle but that was also real, so I appreciate you taking the time and energy to do so. Sometimes I wonder if anyone can be rich and famous and also good. Sure doesn't seem like it.
Barely into the video but adding because I just remembered that he was well known for answering questions and talking to fans on tumblr. What he could have done or said privately on there...
He spoke to me 😢
Well I was waiting for one of my regular people I trust to break this down and here goes the death of my teenage years 😢
I couldn’t get through the whole article while reading, hoping I can make it through your video since you’ll be there supporting me 🙃 One of the most devastatingly disappointing things to learn about in my personal entertainment sphere in my lifetime. I can’t say what a fan I was and how sick I felt reading even the beginning of the allegations. It’s absolutely heartbreaking for someone my age who was part of the nerd/fantasy communities I was part of.
My husband also said Amanda Palmer seemed to be complicit after reading the article. We just saw the Dresden Dolls in Boston at Halloween. I will say that as someone who was a fan in high school and wanted to go sort of for nostalgia’s sake, I always did get the impression that she was a sort of manipulative and attention-seeking person.
'do it with a rockstar' by a amanda palmer hasnt aged well
i'm unable to separate the artist from the art. it's like if i have once eaten or drunk something that made me really sick, i just can't shake off the disgust
Thank you so much for talking about this. Must have been a hard video for you to record! I knew I needed to hear what happened for a while but couldn't bring myself to research it.
i have to walk away from this video, but thank you for doing this work. Your videos are always incredible! Have a lovely day!!
It appears Amanda's CD's are going to hit the trash can, along with a book by Gaiman.
I hate how people like P Diddy and Neil Gaiman hold so much power yet there’s is hardly any accountability for their actions
I don’t really get why we’d ever want to separate art from artist. I believe strongly that the context of a person’s character is important. In the case of Lovecraft, I don’t see a reason to boycott him, but I don’t want to shy away from the fact that he was a terrible person. JK Rowling, on the other hand, is on permanent timeout while she is using the profits of her work to cause harm in the real world. I can’t claim to have been a Gaiman fan, but I feel pretty much the same about him.
I read the article and I feel like no one is mentioning how he's also being implied to be sexually abusing his toddler.
I'm about 3 minutes into this video, I am 57 years old, first thing I thought, Woody Allen
You can be both a victim and an accomplice. It is incredibly, incredibly common with heterosexual crime couples.
Her dog seems so atune with her emotions and distress, you can see her being more puppy when rachel starts getting more upset. Such a cute bond.
You are such a truthful honest woman. The world needs more sweethearts like you. Love your channel
Imagine watching this and then being a creepy man towards the woman making it.
If anyone wants to read this article sans paywall: if you have a library card and a Libby account, your library may have access to it digitally. That's how I was able to read it! This worked for me in the United States, not sure about elsewhere.
In my personal life I struggle more with people who know better. Who loudly proclaim themselves as advocates and allies. Then the actions they take obfuscate and enable monsters. (Who as discussed may be ignorant) If they know better and refuse to do better I'd prefer they shut up.
The first Neil Gaiman book I ever read was Neverwhere, and its main character always reminded me of Gaiman himself (at least physically in his description). The book is filled with female characters- teenage Door, the major one, sexy stoic Hunter, Anesthesia, Richard's frigid fiancee Jessica. At one point Richard, in his late twenties or early thirties, contemplates whether he should kiss the teenage Door. It doesn't come as a super shock that Gaiman has issues with women and it feels like it comes from a place of feeling a need to prove himself to be that master. I think he feels inferior to women and can't handle it
2:33 I would say the difference is that qLovecraft's works are public domain, there's a full financial separation from the artist while Gaiman, like Rowling ironically, will keep making money off of his works and use it to keep being awful.
You can make new Cthulhu mythos without the racism or you can tackle it head on.
On Amanda Palmer, she definitely knew. She's a grifter exactly like Gaiman. Even they themselves say they don't have much in common except that they'll "never be bored" with each other. Palmer has a history of using people for financial gain. Even the article points out how it's likely that Palmer was feeding some of these ladies to Gaiman
Also his history in Scientology shouldn't be dismissed either, he was most likely horribly abused as most children ar in that human trafficking cult.
It probably explains why he wanted to be called Master or some of the alleged tactics he used
Rachel, as an American who is watching these idiots destroy my country: THANK YOU. Your content provides such comfort to autistic, trans, curious, people who care about social justice like me. Literally, 9 out of 10 of my closest friends cite your channel as their comfort channel. Keep being you. It does make a difference in our lives.