Adidas has done something interesting with the design language by making it so similar across the adizero range. The 3 stripe branding is very easy to spot but the exact model AP4 will look almost the same as E2 in that silver and red colorway. It’s even not that easy to tell the Evo SL from the Evo 1 and AP4 in the white colorway.
Yup, definitely by design. i think for two reasons. The one you stated, so that it has hard to actually tell what is on elite's feet AND the aspirational one that a consumer can buy the "same looking" shoe as an elite... all of the Evo SL marketing is literally around that idea.
Ok. But most of these shoes you cannot buy in any way shape or form. Unless I am missing something, the Evo 1 is an exception. Even then, the retail version was not the race version which had Continental rubber. You cannot buy these Dev ## Nike shoes or the prototype elite asics. So the rule enforcement is selectively bizarre.
They release “non dev” candidates, but that is the pipeline… so it keeps the dev models based in reality so they come to market quickly (relatively speaking). The Evo 1 was a special circumstance they only adidas (or Nike) could afford to do. Saucony has done something unique with the Endorphin Elite 2.
Whoa, that's a lot of information to digest. This promises to be a very entertaining and informative series; and I'm looking forward to the next chapters to come.
@@SagasuRunning I see more elite super shoes with less cushioning for runners who want a super racing flat with a carbon fiber plate and for elites in shorter races Like road 5k/10k and similar distances up to about 7 miles, past that they most likely would be wearing true performance super shoes. I also like now how brands are as of 2024 making models for more foot strikes then however the top elite runners sponsored by the brand run, more variety for sub elite runners who win smaller events that would need a World Athletics conforming super shoe for the race event. Lastly I see World Athletic conforming super trail models made for events with less roots and such with good conditions used for events by elite runners who want such a shoe and the NCAA level Cross Country in places like California where spikes are ban on all events or for running on better non sloppy days, possibly even shorter distance super racing trail flats being made for these events and anything up to about 10 miles or 1/2 marathon on trails, provided a more beefy shoe is not needed for the trail event.
World Athletics are helping to create the market for elite tier. As the qualifications standards are being pushed too quickly. The qualification for the Tokyo25 marathon is now 2.06.30. Which is more ridiculous the qualification standard or the 599 price for the EVO1.
Japanese marathons and half marathons have INSANE time qualifications as the Japanese elite and pro fields are VERY deep. This is nothing new. Almost all Japanese races have these type of elite field requirements as if they didn't they would have hundreds of racers in them.
@@SagasuRunning Yes, somehow Japan is like Kenya, Ethiopia and more recent Uganda all in the Rift Vally in the way you find deep fields of elites from these countries for distance running, this has been going on for years since the 1960--1970's when the Japanese had first started having very good runners come from Japan.
The EVO 1 is the true elite shoe for me. I have it and I just ran 5km in it and it really felt "elite". I ran my fastest 5km in it and it really felt fast. It was so fast that I was not able to keep up with it. After that 5km run, I was already hesitant to use the EVO 1 again because I felt unworthy running in it 😂. The Alphafly 3 on the other hand is also an elite shoe but it feels friendlier in the sense that it can accommodate you at slower paces. Great content as always. 😊
Agree on both shoes. The Evo 1 feels like something not to waste…. While the AF3, which is as fast, feels much friendlier. 2025 is going to be fascinating.
@@SagasuRunning i cant wait !!! I love soft foam. My most anticipated racing shoe is the Saucony Elite v2. That compound seems very special. 2025 is gonna be an expensive year with all the great foams being promoted..
An excellent video - couldn't agree more with you, I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that most of us don't get out of these shoes compared to the elite runners and therefore the Pro4s, Nike AF, VF and the Metaspeeds are great for us, the elite can stretch it to the Evos etc. to get most out of their shoes.
I find it exciting that Nike and Adidas will create product for elite athletes that you and I can buy, if we so want. Otherwise that level of gear stays ONLY at the prototype level and never sees the light of day for release, unless it's fully watered down for a true consumer release. This is where the Word Athletics regulations actually help in forcing brands to polish and releases these shoes (after a dev phase).
Adidas PRO for the slower marathons New York and Boston. Evo series for the fast marathons Tokyo, Chicago, London and Berlin. With records attacks for the EVO series. Sawe's performance in the EVO series makes the marathon WR possible. No doubt on the way to the holy grail the sub 2hr.
As always you are full on point. Berlin Marathon showed it clearly for me... soooo many 4h-5h Marathon runners in the Alphafly3 ... and yeah it makes somewhat sense. Its the most tame Alphafly ever. I pronate relatively strong and I run very very stable in it (checked it on cam on treadmill), its also the least aggressive one and focuses more on leg saving and durability compared to the older models. Or the New Balance Elite v4... super tame and relativle stable with very high durability... or the Hoka Cielo x1... everyone can run in it and its very stable Only makes sense to push out for more elite shoes. And there we go market: 100g shoes will be a logical next step
Agree on the AF3, it's tuned to work for more runners. Though, besides Rupp and Mantz...no on really raced in the AF1...Kipchoge is the only one who raced in the AF2...so you could say Nike finally made a AF that works. But yes, tuning a shoe like the AF3 to be lighter and more aggressive... makes complete sense. Also...agree on weight. I've also been talking about how weight is the next battle ground...multiple videos on that. The "Elite" tier and weight will also go together.
Great review ! Just some thoughts - the adios pro 3 foam is/will be more durable but from what I’m hearing the outsole on the pro 4 is actually more durable . Time will tell I guess
CPU outsoles are literally bulletproof. I wouldn’t be surprised if the outsole is the more durable thing in the AP4 and Adios 9. I also expect a CPU outsole on the Evo 2, likely the one Adidas will sell to consumers.
youre 100% right about the 99% of runners not being able to fully utilize elite super shoes. Nevertheless, we still want it and the trickle down effects it will have down their respective product ranges.
Well as for durability, I saw Dr of Running posted a 100miles review of that and Matt opinion that it's quite durable. That is what I always scared when we see the leaks few months back. Cant wait ur review on that soon!
Sort of...the outsole was durable (I can confirm CPU outsoles are very durable) but the foam changed drastically in the 100 miles, which sounds like ZoomX and not LSP. If this is true, many Adidas fans are going to be disappointed given how durable the foam was in the AP3... I have many thoughts here though... I'll discuss it all when I get to my review....
Yup, I know. I’ve enjoyed his rants on outsole durability over the years. If the AP4 outsole looks that good after his 100miles…. That’s a very durable outsole!
Wow quite a bold statement -I thought- that we'll see sub 2 attempts in 2025 but in a second thought it certainly is the direction that we are heading. And under this light it finally makes sense for those elite shoes.to exist, which I was strongly against in my comments in other videos. But now I get the why.
I’m glad I could explain my point then. I’ve been saying what’s in the video since Berlin… but not this concise. I think it’s 50/50 we will see a sub 2hr next year. No one has gotten as close as Kiptum was yet. A few will try next fall in Berlin and Chicago.
@yiann1sk Nope… also Sawe’s performance at Valencia…no one expected it. The times will drop, no one has a lock on it…which is why it’s going to be interesting to watch.
I demo tested AP4 in my US10 size. They run shorter than AP3 a bit so 1/2 size up is better if you are going to run a marathon in them. I think I could tolerate a HM in TTS.
@TolunayOrkun thanks for the advice, looking to get a pair on release in Jan. Got a pair of Pro 3s and they're a borderline good fit so think I'll need a slightly bigger size in the 4s from what you and others have said. Thanks
@ it definitely would be informative for a lot of people, but I think a lot would take offense to it. Tread lightly on that one. There are just many people complaining about the price of running shoes and a lot of sensitive people lately. As an avid cyclist, I know where you’re coming from it makes sense to me and you, but it won’t make sense to other people.
@edlorenz1552 Agree. Which is why I haven’t done it and likely won’t. It is also why I rarely talk about price on the channel and when I do I qualify it with “what I think is expensive, likely differs from what you do.”. It is a sensitive subject.
My thought when you used the comparison to cycling was not about cost, but of human behavior. We tend to want more than we truly need for our given use, and cycling is a sport that will give so many options (in ever escalating price options) for every component on that bike. I tend to have the same behavior for shoes, always drawn to the next fancy release with new foams, technologies (and higher prices). But in a surprise, for my running habits it turns out a $50 shoe remains my all-time favorite!
Hi. I am a regular on your channel and was wondering if you could solve a puzzle for me. I have done two marathons in the VF2 and plenty of HMs as well. They were extremely comfortable and I had no issues. This year, while training for my third marathon, I did a tune up HM yesterday in a pair of recently purchased AF3s. I managed to hit my PB (1:29:35) but my calves were absolutely destroyed at the end of the race - felt like I had just finished a marathon! I have an exceptionally quick cadence and didnt feel like the AF3 was giving me massive amounts of energy return - felt like a normal supershoe (I have used Endorphin Pro 1 & 2, VF2 and AP3). My question is whether I should stick to the AF3 for the marathon or should I go for the AP3 (the other supershoe I have in my current rotation). I am really worried that I will rapidly fade in the second half of the marathon distance considering how I was feeling at the end of the race yesterday.
It sounds like you Nair need more time in them. The y are extremely different than the VF2 or any of the other shoes you mentioned. I also have a high cadence (and a similar HM PR) and have always been a VF runner… it took me a bit to adjust to the AF3 and let my stride “float” more to engage the AirPods in the forefoot (I’m a forefoot striker). Slowly I adjusted and now they feel natural. They are a very unique ride that talks time to adjust too and learn how to maximize.
Looking forward to your thoughts on the AP4 in comparison to the AP3. The upper is obviously gonna feel magical against the AP3’s, but I’m curious to see how the AP4 balances durability vs performance.
I think the durability concern with the midsole of the new lightstrike pro is the nature of it being softer instead of the formulation. I have used the adios 9 for quite some time and I already noticed the softness, and a lot of creases just 5 kms into a run.
The new LSP definitely seems to have durability concerns. I'll have my full thoughts in my review... it's a VERY new world for Adidas foams into 2025 though. Not everyone is going to like it.
re Asics : I find it Interesting that Clayton Young decided to stick with his Metaspeed Paris rather than going for the Metalite for New York (well that is what I understood from the last series his team shot) , I guess even at elite level finding the correct shoe for a runner is complex .
Great point, John. I watched that decision he made with great interest. Ultimately the Metalite was not demonstrably better, empirically, than the MSP under a full-control testing environment. Which begs the question, are these ‘elite’ shoes genuinely moving the needle?!
Good Point! I would make two sections in running shoes, too, Amateur and Pro or as the call it Elite. A Hobby or an Amateur Runner can never max out a Pro Shoe, that´s fact.
Thata where a shoe like th Pegasus bridges the gap...from beginner to pro, the shoe has a wide range. There are definitly shoes out there geared to newer runners (but still with performance) and ones for very experienced runners. This is something, in our recent tech boom, that has been a good trend.
Thanks - truly fascinating insights. I couldn't agree more: Nike's AF3 and Adidas' PRO 4 are undeniably excellent shoes, so much so that most of us runners will never come close to maxing out their potential. The AF3, in particular, is a standout for me and despite having missed by few seconds the podium at a local 10K last weekend I can only blame myself - the shoe wasn't really the problem: I fully applaud brands for crafting "elite versions" for the pros. The truth is, the supershoes of today are already so advanced that the real bottleneck isn’t the carbon plates or foam-it’s, well… the runner. Maybe it’s time we lace up, train harder, and stop blaming brands for not magically teleporting us to a sub-30 10K with a new "elite" shoe.
The runner is ALWAYS the bottleneck. Some would even to go as far to say that the runner's mind is the bottleneck....motivation, discipline, planning...all start there.
I would like to see On Cloud here as well. Very interesting design and innovation but not sure about the performance. They are signing new athletes and i see more&more people wearing them. Looking at the whole competition, it seems Adidas is playing it better with the product line up. I would like to see a more aggressive Nike as Phil Knight's legacy deserves that manifestation. Asics is like dark horse. I won't be surprised more Asics athletes claiming Marathon Pbs. Overall an entertaining 2025 awaits us. I'll have a close eye on athletes like Kiptum,Korir and Sawe. Thnx for the great wrap up Saga 🎉
I'm going to be honest...On isn't in the same league. Hellen Obiri would run well in any shoe and she is the ONLY On athlete that has any results at the world major level... even after On's spending spree to sign more athletes. Additionally, there is nothing particularly interesting or innovative about On's Cloudboom Strike LS (or any other On shoe). The foam(s) are nothing special, the engineering of the midsole is standard, the upper is flashy but not really anything new... the value of what On is doing with that shoe is at the manufacture level (I made a video about On and this shoe...look for my "Innovation" thumbnail).
I am in triathlon and I think many ambitious age groupers fall into the same trap when it comes to gear by thinking that they need to have the most advanced piece of gear available. Most people are not going to extract the maximum performance from their gear, but companies will need a product that their sponsored athletes can push to the limits. This is why having a dedicated elite product line is a good thing. The company may not actually make good margins from their elite level products, but it provides a platform for innovations that can later be deployed to other product lines.
Triathlon gear is crazy. When I was still in NYC and still cycling I rode frequently with a few triathletes, one of which was working on getting into Kona. The amount of gear she had was absolutely crazy. I'm a gear nerd (obviously) and I liked all my carbon fiber this and that on bikes...but her tri bike brought things to a NEW level... I also remember the amount of shoes she would run through to "test" efficiency. Even here in Taiwan it's not uncommon to see a triathlete on a club level in a $25k USD aero bike doing weekend warrior type rides. I do not miss cycling..haha. Totally agree on having elite level gear for a brand's athletes it a good thing through.
I’m an ex tri-geek (mainly 1980s). Two of the reasons I left are the nuclear arms race and the OCD of triathletes. I still bike, but none of my bikes are new or carbon.
@@SagasuRunningWhat’s nice is that the majority of triathletes are everyday people looking to balance their training with family and full time jobs. Because of that, cost-efficiency is something the general community values a great deal, even though we all get excited by whatever next-gen shiny thing gets released. But back on topic, I remember when carbon plated shoes was something exclusive to pro level athletes and now we have many brands selling consumer level shoes with carbon plates. It’s natural for advancements to roll down from the top, so having a clear development platform here is very important.
@xander0901 Agree on the training aspects of triathletes. Also…. Agree on the first gen super shoes. It is why I said things have changed a lot since 2017.
Since the new Meta Speed is labelled as MS4 (Meta Speed 4) type 1 in the pictures of the ASICS prototypes being tested I'm going to guess that the MZ1 probably stands for Meta Zero (a reference to what will most likely be a very light shoe).
Does the world need an elite tier of racing shoes? I would argue no. But I fully understand and agree with these points why it will exist. An unintended consequence of World Athletics rules seeking greater fairness for elite athletes, but in the end also helping perpetuate unneeded commercialism and its impact to the earth. I am sure the manufacturers would much rather just produce elite racing shoes for their elite athletes, as opposed to taking on all the cost involved to supply a very small group in the general market. And those sticking with their “regular” $275 racing shoes will always have that nagging feeling that they still don’t have the “best” shoes.
as someone with quite picky feet/biomecanics I look at it as having more options. I don't care too much "elite" the shoe is, key point is does it work for me or not. I still raced in Vaporfly 1 this year despite having tried many other racers including shoes like the Adios and Endorphin Pro 3s, that have a reputation to work also for very much non elite runners like myself, but the Elite-darling VF1 were still better for me. So I would also count the Asics Edge/Sky and certainly the Endorphin Elite in that context. So many shoetubers doing their "best" shoe awards (not looking at you, Chris) completly ignore that their ranking may be best for them but the complete opposite for the next person, the only way to define the best supershoe would be a larger study on energy efficiency similar to what Dustin Joubert did.
I agree. These "elite" tier shoes could offer things for more options to non-elite runners. Interesting point I haven't considered. I'm going to have my "best of" content up towards the end of the month...but I wrote a section to qualify my selections as MY opinions on what I like/works for me + some industry layers... which is really what the list SHOULD be. That content is coming...
I think because World Athletics rules, brands have reached pretty much the limit of technology to cater for both the general running population (including fast club runners) and those elites and sub-elites. The tweaks and optimizations to milk the last percentage (or sub-percentage) of performance for elite level athletes means non conventional materials, costly production processes that cannot scale up for a product that is intended for general population and still have some reasonable level of durability. I think EVO 1 was truly such a product. As you have discussed earlier, Adidas is probably losing money for each pair of EVO 1 sold even at absurdly high $500 price level. It is like Formula 1 like racing technology or space age inventions that are designed for a specific job. As brands learn and figure out ways to make these materials a bit cheaper, streamline the technology, the benefits will trickle down. I don't mind if there are Elite shoes that are like this. I might not be able to buy them but I think over time we will benefit from them. That said, there are still sites or runners (more in Spanish world) that look at the times of runner and decide that someone is not worthy of supershoes if their race times not not less than X or running paces are slower than Y (plus add in the runner weight). While not all super shoes work for everyone (just like any other shoe), my experience with Supershoes for general populace has been positive and I was able to reach to personal records that would not have been possible with ordinary heavy training shoes with outdated foams. My 5K PR is in Takumi Sen 8, 10K/HM PR is in Vaporfly 2 and Marathon PR in Alphafly 1) I am going to run CIM in 3 days. I decided to give my Adios Pro 3 a race. I did run in a demo Adios Pro 4 so this is probably the right time for using AP3 in a race. During this build-up, I evaluated Vaporfly 3 and Alphafly 3 in long runs as well. VF3 for me was better as a HM or lower shoe. AF3 is better overall for marathon as you recommended them for CIM but unfortunately right shoe gave me a blister in the heel. I need to test it again sometime in the future with different socks (the Nike Spark Lighweight socks are just too smooth)
I've been running In Injinji synthetic ultralightweight socks for all of 2024 so far. Originally I moved to them because I'm so blister prone, especially in hot and humid Taipei summers. However, I have found they have also significantly decreased my shoe fit issues. I'm a fan of the Nike Spark LW socks and like them when the shoe fit is a true race fit (like a the VF1 or a track spike) but they are super thin and slippery and can cause friction in shoes. The Injinji toe socks, while "ultralightweight" for the brand are much thicker but more importantly they are a material that grips the inside of most shoes, not allowing the foot to move around as much. They solved my fit issues with the AP3 and smoothed over most other Adizero fit issues I have. I highly recommend them.
@@SagasuRunning Thanks for the advice. I do have those injinji socks. I rarely uses them as I have little patience with fitting in each toe one by one. I will be using Swiftwick FLITE XT Zero socks in my race. These have slip resistant heel and toe sections. These particular ones partially use Olefin fibers partially. Really good quality socks. One of the few that are actually made in USA.
I agree with you that the separation of elite level shoes is good. But it comes with the risk that the non-elite versions will move a bit too much towards the "majority" of runners. Don't get me wrong, I'm not really limited by the shoes. But still I prefer the old Vaporfly Next% to Vaporfly 3, especially for 10k and HM. So let's just hope that there is a big enough market for the shoes for quicker runners. Nowadays, the majority of people are "too slow" for the optimum performance of their shoes. But this might change and I can see the world where economically it makes more sense to fine-tune "base Alphafly" for 1:30 HM, while running sub 1:15 HM you will be stuck in a no man's land between cutting edge expensive elite models and comfortable base models.
I think some brands will move totally into the "casual non-elite" super shoe camp almost completely and opt to make product really only for non-elite runners. This has already been happening in some ways for brands like Hoka, Saucony and Puma. Nike and Adidas will always focus on the top athletes, elite and non-elites with their super shoes and create other shoes for my casual racers (i.e. ZF6, PX2S, Evo SL). Asics does something similar though they do make shoes for a wide range of runners/racers as well.
While I get the frustration (and share it to an extent) of not really having access to the Elite shoes, I do agree that they aren't for the majority of the folks. As long as brands also push the envelope for their consumer models I really don't have a problem with it. I just have the worry that they focus more on the Elite shoes and make the consumer models less cutting edge (this is unfounded I admit, there's no reason to think this, just a thought)
I don't think think "consumer" models will be any less cutting edge. Case in point on the AP4. It is a HUGE upgrade from the AP3 as fas as quality of life and performance, though nowhere near the Evo 1. The shoe has a few issues, but performance-wise it's a big step that many runners will benefit from. Same can be said for the AF3...massive upgrade that made the shoe better, faster and more comfortable in every way.
I always still like the "idea" of wearing "elite" shoes despite now only just being able to run a sub 20 5K. To do so on Sunday, I choose a pair of Vaporfly 2 now what 4 years old and would probably have used a 6 year old Vaporfly 1 if had one to hand on the day. Both still very "super" compared to flats and I guess the days when only the "better" runners raced in flats are maybe "sort of" returning if theme here really plays out. Then again it is 99.9% the athlete but 0.1% can make all the difference at elite level. I never have found much love for the Alphafly 3 for instance and yet would be an hour behind those that can get the most out of them. And despite several attempts to buy a Evo 1 have failed every time so in a way the availability not the price is the issue.
You know, I was thinking about your point, on "better or serious runners racing in flats". I think we are seeing a bit of a return to that in the sense that we have super shoes like the Hoka Cielo X1 that are great options for a casual runner to race in but are VERY different super shoes from what an elite would wear to go after a WR time (and for those reading this saying one or two random elites have raced in the Cielo x1, I know...but thats an edge case)....it's not going back to racing in trainers of proper flats...but there is definitely another tier of super shoes evolving, never intended for an elite, instead intended for a casual non-elite runner... it's interesting. Evo 1s were FINALLY available here in Taiwan, at retail and online, a few weeks ago... over a year too late to be of any use. I passed on them...
Likely not for elites anywhere. That shoe will likely never see a World Major podium...but for non-elite runners it should be great...something like a Hoka Cielo X1 type use case.
Would Mizuno's Wave Rebellion Pro 3 beta qualify for the elite tier do you think? Given its extra-soft midsole and very innovative design packing more than 40mm stack in the midfoot area (heel and forefoot remain under 40mm to stay WA legal), I wouldn't be surprised if a non-sponsored elite athlete chose it and ran close to the 2h mark.
Not even in the slightest. The elite tier is dominated by Nike, Adidas and Asics. It’s not to say there aren’t decent super shoes out there beyond that…. But no elite is going to choose them for a reason. A non sponsored elite “could” do what you said…. They also “could” show up to a start line in roller skates. Both are as likely to happen in a world major.
Odd and clunky design and geometry and foams thet aren’t on par with what Nike, Adidas or ASICS put out. I know Mizunos are popular for those who love them but they are very niche… Show me a single elite or pro runner, outside of Japan, getting results in a Mizuno anything.
That’s very specific. Going to be hard to get there. 1cm back? So you want true midfoot striker version. After running in the Victory 2 spikes… I wish the air unit was a little more forward in the AF3.
Very interesting commercially to see this trend spread over multiple brands. But I have questions for your predictions, again… do you see this as a way to make the Alphafly “more consumer friendly (and maybe even more durable, with more outsole rubber), or do you see this as the elite tier being like a refined, slightly tweaked Alphafly that is just pushes the boundaries a little, or is this in your opinion the beginning of a “mega tier”, where there is tailered shoes, with massive innovation to help pushing the limits to the breaking point (think Formula 1 level innovation and taylored shoes)? Because at the end of the day, Vaperfly and Alphafly are race shoes, but I still guess it’s limited how much sense it makes to have +4 marathon options in Nike alone (VF, AF, VF Elite, AF Elite)? Your take on this commercially and technically? 👟🏁
Refined and slightly tweaked in the short term… and a space to go mega tier/next gen as the next wave of materials enters running. I do see F1 type materials use and innovation…. I also don’t think every shoe will get and elite tier. Im actually curious if we will see a VF4 Elite…. Or will the VF4 just be more hardcore…. The SF2 certainly looks hardcore. Nike is going all in on “air” so a AF3/AF3E makes sense. It’s something I’m going to cover closely in 2025. I think it can go multiple ways. I’m curious which way it does.
I think World Athletics should change the rule about race legal shoes to remove the requirement that these elite/prototype shoes are available to buy. The actual enforcement of the rule is quite lax. The purpose was to create level competition. In reality most athletes are on contract with a shoe sponsor and cannot use another brand or the pricing and availability and release timing renders these elite shoes practically unavailable for a premier competition event for the remaining unattached athletes. The rule doesn’t actually achieve the intended result in any way.
As we have discussed, multiple times, I partly agree. I do think the enforcement of the rule is quite lax....but I like the fact that ultimately brands needs to offer the shoe for sale (even in obtuse ways). The Evo 1 is a good example of this. That need kept the shoe in check in based in reality... otherwise it could have gotten more out of hand (which is best for true development protos that brands test behind closed doors). What shows up in public on elites feet should be something you can buy...somehow.
Yup...I worked through an early draft of this video using a car analogy (using Porsches)...from the standard 911, to a GT# to a factory GT cup car. But it was WAY too specific...but the analogy is there for sure. I mean you CAN go pick the kids up at school in your track car...but why?
Well i have news the adiós pro Evo 2 in silver was in the feet of Belihu of Etiopía nut he dnf at 30km at Valencia that info is confirmes i review the race at the point of he stoped and was the Evo 2
It looked like the PRO4 as the carbon rods (black) are visible from the racing shots where Belihu is shown. EVO does not cut out the rods. Belihu has DNF in two marathons this season.
@@SagasuRunning the outsole of the Evo 2 Is diferent to Evo 1 and ia very similar to pro 4 Belihu was selected to probé the shoe. The easiest way to check was the exact moment in he drop off the race the camera show the shoe and ia not the pro 4 i the silver and red Evo 2 prototype
Ha! You and me both. I actually had an alternative take where I said that with a Pegasus in my hand...but thought it was too mean so I used another take. So true though. 🤣
Depends on the shoe. For the Dragonfly 2 example...I bought the normal Dragonfly 2, non-elite, as that is what I needed. It really comes down to what the "elite" version is and what I'm racing or need.
The point is: comparing shoes is one thing - comparing runners is a completely different thing. So what is the point in adding the "human factor" in a discussion about shoes? But a smart, know-it-all guy like you of course knows what Kiptum would have run in an Evo 1 ... or just a Pegasus ...
We are not going to find that many Kiptum's right? So the idea is that giving non-Kiptim level but still good elite athlete a fractional advantage for him to achieve Kiptum level performance.
And these days I am following the Apple offerings with a few year generation gap. Updates are no longer offering that much more power or value for me and I think most Apple users are thinking like me that their sales have slowed down and you no longer see those lines outside of Apple Stores (remember iPhones pre 6? ) We have reached mature sections of S curve in cell phone technology. Are there elite iPhone users? Yes and no. There are some that will be pushing the limits but unfortunately unlike in athletics there are no phone competitions.
Adidas has done something interesting with the design language by making it so similar across the adizero range. The 3 stripe branding is very easy to spot but the exact model AP4 will look almost the same as E2 in that silver and red colorway. It’s even not that easy to tell the Evo SL from the Evo 1 and AP4 in the white colorway.
Yup, definitely by design. i think for two reasons. The one you stated, so that it has hard to actually tell what is on elite's feet AND the aspirational one that a consumer can buy the "same looking" shoe as an elite... all of the Evo SL marketing is literally around that idea.
Ok. But most of these shoes you cannot buy in any way shape or form. Unless I am missing something, the Evo 1 is an exception. Even then, the retail version was not the race version which had Continental rubber.
You cannot buy these Dev ## Nike shoes or the prototype elite asics.
So the rule enforcement is selectively bizarre.
They release “non dev” candidates, but that is the pipeline… so it keeps the dev models based in reality so they come to market quickly (relatively speaking). The Evo 1 was a special circumstance they only adidas (or Nike) could afford to do. Saucony has done something unique with the Endorphin Elite 2.
Whoa, that's a lot of information to digest. This promises to be a very entertaining and informative series; and I'm looking forward to the next chapters to come.
This is going to be a recurring topic on the channel in 2025…. Lots of interesting things will happen for super shoes next years.
@SagasuRunning Just when you thought 2024 was a huge year, in comes 2025.
@MyFatAdaptedLife 2025 looks so much bigger and more diverse…. Though 2024 did turn out to be a banger.
@@SagasuRunning I see more elite super shoes with less cushioning for runners who want a super racing flat with a carbon fiber plate and for elites in shorter races Like road 5k/10k and similar distances up to about 7 miles, past that they most likely would be wearing true performance super shoes. I also like now how brands are as of 2024 making models for more foot strikes then however the top elite runners sponsored by the brand run, more variety for sub elite runners who win smaller events that would need a World Athletics conforming super shoe for the race event. Lastly I see World Athletic conforming super trail models made for events with less roots and such with good conditions used for events by elite runners who want such a shoe and the NCAA level Cross Country in places like California where spikes are ban on all events or for running on better non sloppy days, possibly even shorter distance super racing trail flats being made for these events and anything up to about 10 miles or 1/2 marathon on trails, provided a more beefy shoe is not needed for the trail event.
@caseysmith544 These lower super shoes are coming… next gen foams will be the gateway to them. Let’s see if I’m right in 2-3 years
World Athletics are helping to create the market for elite tier. As the qualifications standards are being pushed too quickly. The qualification for the Tokyo25 marathon is now 2.06.30. Which is more ridiculous the qualification standard or the 599 price for the EVO1.
where do you see time of 2.06.30 for elite runner requirement?
@@LiveYoung0 On the world athletics website under stats, Road to Tokyo.
Japanese marathons and half marathons have INSANE time qualifications as the Japanese elite and pro fields are VERY deep. This is nothing new. Almost all Japanese races have these type of elite field requirements as if they didn't they would have hundreds of racers in them.
@@SagasuRunning Yes, somehow Japan is like Kenya, Ethiopia and more recent Uganda all in the Rift Vally in the way you find deep fields of elites from these countries for distance running, this has been going on for years since the 1960--1970's when the Japanese had first started having very good runners come from Japan.
The EVO 1 is the true elite shoe for me. I have it and I just ran 5km in it and it really felt "elite". I ran my fastest 5km in it and it really felt fast. It was so fast that I was not able to keep up with it. After that 5km run, I was already hesitant to use the EVO 1 again because I felt unworthy running in it 😂. The Alphafly 3 on the other hand is also an elite shoe but it feels friendlier in the sense that it can accommodate you at slower paces.
Great content as always. 😊
Agree on both shoes. The Evo 1 feels like something not to waste…. While the AF3, which is as fast, feels much friendlier. 2025 is going to be fascinating.
Regarding the compound softness, how would you compare the FF Turbo+ of the Metaspeed Paris vs the Light strike Pro of the Pro 4 please?
@dhoang75 Will do! I’m actually planning on covering it in a few ways into the spring of 2025. But I’ll touch on it in the initial review…
@@SagasuRunning i cant wait !!! I love soft foam. My most anticipated racing shoe is the Saucony Elite v2. That compound seems very special.
2025 is gonna be an expensive year with all the great foams being promoted..
@dhoang75 The new LSP is VERY soft… seems like what you are looking for.
An excellent video - couldn't agree more with you, I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that most of us don't get out of these shoes compared to the elite runners and therefore the Pro4s, Nike AF, VF and the Metaspeeds are great for us, the elite can stretch it to the Evos etc. to get most out of their shoes.
I find it exciting that Nike and Adidas will create product for elite athletes that you and I can buy, if we so want. Otherwise that level of gear stays ONLY at the prototype level and never sees the light of day for release, unless it's fully watered down for a true consumer release. This is where the Word Athletics regulations actually help in forcing brands to polish and releases these shoes (after a dev phase).
Adidas PRO for the slower marathons New York and Boston. Evo series for the fast marathons Tokyo, Chicago, London and Berlin. With records attacks for the EVO series. Sawe's performance in the EVO series makes the marathon WR possible. No doubt on the way to the holy grail the sub 2hr.
Yup. Sawe’s race was something to see. 2025 marathon season will be interesting for sure.
Very interesting indeed. Thanks.
Thank you for watching. 🙏🏻
As always you are full on point.
Berlin Marathon showed it clearly for me... soooo many 4h-5h Marathon runners in the Alphafly3 ... and yeah it makes somewhat sense. Its the most tame Alphafly ever. I pronate relatively strong and I run very very stable in it (checked it on cam on treadmill), its also the least aggressive one and focuses more on leg saving and durability compared to the older models.
Or the New Balance Elite v4... super tame and relativle stable with very high durability... or the Hoka Cielo x1... everyone can run in it and its very stable
Only makes sense to push out for more elite shoes.
And there we go market: 100g shoes will be a logical next step
Agree on the AF3, it's tuned to work for more runners. Though, besides Rupp and Mantz...no on really raced in the AF1...Kipchoge is the only one who raced in the AF2...so you could say Nike finally made a AF that works.
But yes, tuning a shoe like the AF3 to be lighter and more aggressive... makes complete sense.
Also...agree on weight. I've also been talking about how weight is the next battle ground...multiple videos on that. The "Elite" tier and weight will also go together.
Great stuff here !
Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻
Insightful video, really enjoy your videos. Happy Holidays.
I'm glad it was interesting. Thank you for watching. happy holidays to youa nd yours as well! 🤙🏻
Great review !
Just some thoughts - the adios pro 3 foam is/will be more durable but from what I’m hearing the outsole on the pro 4 is actually more durable . Time will tell I guess
CPU outsoles are literally bulletproof. I wouldn’t be surprised if the outsole is the more durable thing in the AP4 and Adios 9. I also expect a CPU outsole on the Evo 2, likely the one Adidas will sell to consumers.
youre 100% right about the 99% of runners not being able to fully utilize elite super shoes. Nevertheless, we still want it and the trickle down effects it will have down their respective product ranges.
We still want the trickle down effects AND we want the elite versions…. Even though we will never fully tap into them.
Well as for durability, I saw Dr of Running posted a 100miles review of that and Matt opinion that it's quite durable.
That is what I always scared when we see the leaks few months back. Cant wait ur review on that soon!
Sort of...the outsole was durable (I can confirm CPU outsoles are very durable) but the foam changed drastically in the 100 miles, which sounds like ZoomX and not LSP. If this is true, many Adidas fans are going to be disappointed given how durable the foam was in the AP3... I have many thoughts here though... I'll discuss it all when I get to my review....
@@SagasuRunningWhen Matt talks about durability, he means the outsole. He’s a heel striker known for wearing through outsoles.
Yup, I know. I’ve enjoyed his rants on outsole durability over the years. If the AP4 outsole looks that good after his 100miles…. That’s a very durable outsole!
Wow quite a bold statement -I thought- that we'll see sub 2 attempts in 2025 but in a second thought it certainly is the direction that we are heading. And under this light it finally makes sense for those elite shoes.to exist, which I was strongly against in my comments in other videos. But now I get the why.
I’m glad I could explain my point then. I’ve been saying what’s in the video since Berlin… but not this concise.
I think it’s 50/50 we will see a sub 2hr next year. No one has gotten as close as Kiptum was yet. A few will try next fall in Berlin and Chicago.
@ Maybe not as fast as 2025 but then nobody expected Chepngetich to break 2:10 either!
@yiann1sk Nope… also Sawe’s performance at Valencia…no one expected it. The times will drop, no one has a lock on it…which is why it’s going to be interesting to watch.
@@SagasuRunning Ah yes, I completely overlooked this, Sawe! Age is there, Adidas is there… Who you see could be the one from Nike side?
@yiann1sk Not sure… I don’t follow the athletes super closely until a world major announces the field then I dig into the names I don’t know.
Looking forward to your review of the Pro 4. Particularly what you think of the fit, seen a lot of videos recommending half a size bigger
I'll get into it...but I bought TTS.
I demo tested AP4 in my US10 size. They run shorter than AP3 a bit so 1/2 size up is better if you are going to run a marathon in them. I think I could tolerate a HM in TTS.
@TolunayOrkun thanks for the advice, looking to get a pair on release in Jan. Got a pair of Pro 3s and they're a borderline good fit so think I'll need a slightly bigger size in the 4s from what you and others have said. Thanks
@TolunayOrkun Making note of this. TTS feels right to me…but I’ll keep an eye on them as I run in them.
I’m glad you pointed out the cycling costs for top end components. A lot of people don’t realize that.
I've been toying with the idea of a "running vs cycling costs" video for about 6 months... it may blow some people's minds.
@ it definitely would be informative for a lot of people, but I think a lot would take offense to it. Tread lightly on that one. There are just many people complaining about the price of running shoes and a lot of sensitive people lately. As an avid cyclist, I know where you’re coming from it makes sense to me and you, but it won’t make sense to other people.
@edlorenz1552 Agree. Which is why I haven’t done it and likely won’t. It is also why I rarely talk about price on the channel and when I do I qualify it with “what I think is expensive, likely differs from what you do.”. It is a sensitive subject.
My thought when you used the comparison to cycling was not about cost, but of human behavior. We tend to want more than we truly need for our given use, and cycling is a sport that will give so many options (in ever escalating price options) for every component on that bike. I tend to have the same behavior for shoes, always drawn to the next fancy release with new foams, technologies (and higher prices). But in a surprise, for my running habits it turns out a $50 shoe remains my all-time favorite!
@y416 It’s also the search for performance. Stiffness and weight matter on a bike… when you are shaving grams the costs get insane.
Hi. I am a regular on your channel and was wondering if you could solve a puzzle for me. I have done two marathons in the VF2 and plenty of HMs as well. They were extremely comfortable and I had no issues. This year, while training for my third marathon, I did a tune up HM yesterday in a pair of recently purchased AF3s. I managed to hit my PB (1:29:35) but my calves were absolutely destroyed at the end of the race - felt like I had just finished a marathon! I have an exceptionally quick cadence and didnt feel like the AF3 was giving me massive amounts of energy return - felt like a normal supershoe (I have used Endorphin Pro 1 & 2, VF2 and AP3). My question is whether I should stick to the AF3 for the marathon or should I go for the AP3 (the other supershoe I have in my current rotation). I am really worried that I will rapidly fade in the second half of the marathon distance considering how I was feeling at the end of the race yesterday.
It sounds like you Nair need more time in them. The y are extremely different than the VF2 or any of the other shoes you mentioned. I also have a high cadence (and a similar HM PR) and have always been a VF runner… it took me a bit to adjust to the AF3 and let my stride “float” more to engage the AirPods in the forefoot (I’m a forefoot striker). Slowly I adjusted and now they feel natural. They are a very unique ride that talks time to adjust too and learn how to maximize.
Looking forward to your thoughts on the AP4 in comparison to the AP3. The upper is obviously gonna feel magical against the AP3’s, but I’m curious to see how the AP4 balances durability vs performance.
The upper on the AP4 is quite nice. a massive upgrade from the AP3... I'll have many more thoughts though... stay tuned.
I think the durability concern with the midsole of the new lightstrike pro is the nature of it being softer instead of the formulation. I have used the adios 9 for quite some time and I already noticed the softness, and a lot of creases just 5 kms into a run.
The new LSP definitely seems to have durability concerns. I'll have my full thoughts in my review... it's a VERY new world for Adidas foams into 2025 though. Not everyone is going to like it.
re Asics : I find it Interesting that Clayton Young decided to stick with his Metaspeed Paris rather than going for the Metalite for New York (well that is what I understood from the last series his team shot) , I guess even at elite level finding the correct shoe for a runner is complex .
I think they didn't find improvements performance wise. So he decided to stick what he got used to.
@@erkona yes , for him and his mechanics.
Great point, John. I watched that decision he made with great interest. Ultimately the Metalite was not demonstrably better, empirically, than the MSP under a full-control testing environment. Which begs the question, are these ‘elite’ shoes genuinely moving the needle?!
He raced NYC in a Metaspeed Sky 4... in a Paris colorway.
He was testing the MSE4 vs MSS4 vs ML... all 2025 prototype shoes. It was fascinating to see though.
Good Point! I would make two sections in running shoes, too, Amateur and Pro or as the call it Elite. A Hobby or an Amateur Runner can never max out a Pro Shoe, that´s fact.
Thata where a shoe like th Pegasus bridges the gap...from beginner to pro, the shoe has a wide range. There are definitly shoes out there geared to newer runners (but still with performance) and ones for very experienced runners. This is something, in our recent tech boom, that has been a good trend.
Thanks - truly fascinating insights. I couldn't agree more: Nike's AF3 and Adidas' PRO 4 are undeniably excellent shoes, so much so that most of us runners will never come close to maxing out their potential. The AF3, in particular, is a standout for me and despite having missed by few seconds the podium at a local 10K last weekend I can only blame myself - the shoe wasn't really the problem: I fully applaud brands for crafting "elite versions" for the pros.
The truth is, the supershoes of today are already so advanced that the real bottleneck isn’t the carbon plates or foam-it’s, well… the runner. Maybe it’s time we lace up, train harder, and stop blaming brands for not magically teleporting us to a sub-30 10K with a new "elite" shoe.
The runner is ALWAYS the bottleneck. Some would even to go as far to say that the runner's mind is the bottleneck....motivation, discipline, planning...all start there.
I would like to see On Cloud here as well. Very interesting design and innovation but not sure about the performance. They are signing new athletes and i see more&more people wearing them. Looking at the whole competition, it seems Adidas is playing it better with the product line up. I would like to see a more aggressive Nike as Phil Knight's legacy deserves that manifestation. Asics is like dark horse. I won't be surprised more Asics athletes claiming Marathon Pbs. Overall an entertaining 2025 awaits us. I'll have a close eye on athletes like Kiptum,Korir and Sawe. Thnx for the great wrap up Saga 🎉
I'm going to be honest...On isn't in the same league. Hellen Obiri would run well in any shoe and she is the ONLY On athlete that has any results at the world major level... even after On's spending spree to sign more athletes.
Additionally, there is nothing particularly interesting or innovative about On's Cloudboom Strike LS (or any other On shoe). The foam(s) are nothing special, the engineering of the midsole is standard, the upper is flashy but not really anything new... the value of what On is doing with that shoe is at the manufacture level (I made a video about On and this shoe...look for my "Innovation" thumbnail).
I am in triathlon and I think many ambitious age groupers fall into the same trap when it comes to gear by thinking that they need to have the most advanced piece of gear available. Most people are not going to extract the maximum performance from their gear, but companies will need a product that their sponsored athletes can push to the limits. This is why having a dedicated elite product line is a good thing. The company may not actually make good margins from their elite level products, but it provides a platform for innovations that can later be deployed to other product lines.
Triathlon gear is crazy. When I was still in NYC and still cycling I rode frequently with a few triathletes, one of which was working on getting into Kona. The amount of gear she had was absolutely crazy. I'm a gear nerd (obviously) and I liked all my carbon fiber this and that on bikes...but her tri bike brought things to a NEW level... I also remember the amount of shoes she would run through to "test" efficiency.
Even here in Taiwan it's not uncommon to see a triathlete on a club level in a $25k USD aero bike doing weekend warrior type rides.
I do not miss cycling..haha.
Totally agree on having elite level gear for a brand's athletes it a good thing through.
I’m an ex tri-geek (mainly 1980s). Two of the reasons I left are the nuclear arms race and the OCD of triathletes. I still bike, but none of my bikes are new or carbon.
@adamfeerst2575 Tri gear is absolutely insane…. Crazy levels even to a gear nerd!
@@SagasuRunningWhat’s nice is that the majority of triathletes are everyday people looking to balance their training with family and full time jobs. Because of that, cost-efficiency is something the general community values a great deal, even though we all get excited by whatever next-gen shiny thing gets released.
But back on topic, I remember when carbon plated shoes was something exclusive to pro level athletes and now we have many brands selling consumer level shoes with carbon plates. It’s natural for advancements to roll down from the top, so having a clear development platform here is very important.
@xander0901 Agree on the training aspects of triathletes.
Also…. Agree on the first gen super shoes. It is why I said things have changed a lot since 2017.
Since the new Meta Speed is labelled as MS4 (Meta Speed 4) type 1 in the pictures of the ASICS prototypes being tested I'm going to guess that the MZ1 probably stands for Meta Zero (a reference to what will most likely be a very light shoe).
Could be. I've also see that name on leaks. Yes, it's supposedly a very light and soft shoe.
Does the world need an elite tier of racing shoes? I would argue no. But I fully understand and agree with these points why it will exist. An unintended consequence of World Athletics rules seeking greater fairness for elite athletes, but in the end also helping perpetuate unneeded commercialism and its impact to the earth. I am sure the manufacturers would much rather just produce elite racing shoes for their elite athletes, as opposed to taking on all the cost involved to supply a very small group in the general market. And those sticking with their “regular” $275 racing shoes will always have that nagging feeling that they still don’t have the “best” shoes.
Agree with this…for the most part. 👍🏻
as someone with quite picky feet/biomecanics I look at it as having more options. I don't care too much "elite" the shoe is, key point is does it work for me or not. I still raced in Vaporfly 1 this year despite having tried many other racers including shoes like the Adios and Endorphin Pro 3s, that have a reputation to work also for very much non elite runners like myself, but the Elite-darling VF1 were still better for me.
So I would also count the Asics Edge/Sky and certainly the Endorphin Elite in that context.
So many shoetubers doing their "best" shoe awards (not looking at you, Chris) completly ignore that their ranking may be best for them but the complete opposite for the next person, the only way to define the best supershoe would be a larger study on energy efficiency similar to what Dustin Joubert did.
I agree. These "elite" tier shoes could offer things for more options to non-elite runners. Interesting point I haven't considered.
I'm going to have my "best of" content up towards the end of the month...but I wrote a section to qualify my selections as MY opinions on what I like/works for me + some industry layers... which is really what the list SHOULD be. That content is coming...
I think because World Athletics rules, brands have reached pretty much the limit of technology to cater for both the general running population (including fast club runners) and those elites and sub-elites. The tweaks and optimizations to milk the last percentage (or sub-percentage) of performance for elite level athletes means non conventional materials, costly production processes that cannot scale up for a product that is intended for general population and still have some reasonable level of durability. I think EVO 1 was truly such a product.
As you have discussed earlier, Adidas is probably losing money for each pair of EVO 1 sold even at absurdly high $500 price level. It is like Formula 1 like racing technology or space age inventions that are designed for a specific job. As brands learn and figure out ways to make these materials a bit cheaper, streamline the technology, the benefits will trickle down. I don't mind if there are Elite shoes that are like this. I might not be able to buy them but I think over time we will benefit from them.
That said, there are still sites or runners (more in Spanish world) that look at the times of runner and decide that someone is not worthy of supershoes if their race times not not less than X or running paces are slower than Y (plus add in the runner weight). While not all super shoes work for everyone (just like any other shoe), my experience with Supershoes for general populace has been positive and I was able to reach to personal records that would not have been possible with ordinary heavy training shoes with outdated foams. My 5K PR is in Takumi Sen 8, 10K/HM PR is in Vaporfly 2 and Marathon PR in Alphafly 1)
I am going to run CIM in 3 days. I decided to give my Adios Pro 3 a race. I did run in a demo Adios Pro 4 so this is probably the right time for using AP3 in a race. During this build-up, I evaluated Vaporfly 3 and Alphafly 3 in long runs as well. VF3 for me was better as a HM or lower shoe. AF3 is better overall for marathon as you recommended them for CIM but unfortunately right shoe gave me a blister in the heel. I need to test it again sometime in the future with different socks (the Nike Spark Lighweight socks are just too smooth)
I've been running In Injinji synthetic ultralightweight socks for all of 2024 so far. Originally I moved to them because I'm so blister prone, especially in hot and humid Taipei summers. However, I have found they have also significantly decreased my shoe fit issues. I'm a fan of the Nike Spark LW socks and like them when the shoe fit is a true race fit (like a the VF1 or a track spike) but they are super thin and slippery and can cause friction in shoes. The Injinji toe socks, while "ultralightweight" for the brand are much thicker but more importantly they are a material that grips the inside of most shoes, not allowing the foot to move around as much. They solved my fit issues with the AP3 and smoothed over most other Adizero fit issues I have. I highly recommend them.
@@SagasuRunning Thanks for the advice. I do have those injinji socks. I rarely uses them as I have little patience with fitting in each toe one by one. I will be using Swiftwick FLITE XT Zero socks in my race. These have slip resistant heel and toe sections. These particular ones partially use Olefin fibers partially. Really good quality socks. One of the few that are actually made in USA.
@TolunayOrkun Sounds like they will work then. It’s about getting the sock to grip the inside of the shoe, or at least not slide overly much.
I agree with you that the separation of elite level shoes is good. But it comes with the risk that the non-elite versions will move a bit too much towards the "majority" of runners. Don't get me wrong, I'm not really limited by the shoes. But still I prefer the old Vaporfly Next% to Vaporfly 3, especially for 10k and HM. So let's just hope that there is a big enough market for the shoes for quicker runners.
Nowadays, the majority of people are "too slow" for the optimum performance of their shoes. But this might change and I can see the world where economically it makes more sense to fine-tune "base Alphafly" for 1:30 HM, while running sub 1:15 HM you will be stuck in a no man's land between cutting edge expensive elite models and comfortable base models.
I think some brands will move totally into the "casual non-elite" super shoe camp almost completely and opt to make product really only for non-elite runners. This has already been happening in some ways for brands like Hoka, Saucony and Puma. Nike and Adidas will always focus on the top athletes, elite and non-elites with their super shoes and create other shoes for my casual racers (i.e. ZF6, PX2S, Evo SL). Asics does something similar though they do make shoes for a wide range of runners/racers as well.
nice topic
This will be an ongoing discussion on the channel in 2025. There will be lots to cover here.
While I get the frustration (and share it to an extent) of not really having access to the Elite shoes, I do agree that they aren't for the majority of the folks. As long as brands also push the envelope for their consumer models I really don't have a problem with it. I just have the worry that they focus more on the Elite shoes and make the consumer models less cutting edge (this is unfounded I admit, there's no reason to think this, just a thought)
I don't think think "consumer" models will be any less cutting edge. Case in point on the AP4. It is a HUGE upgrade from the AP3 as fas as quality of life and performance, though nowhere near the Evo 1. The shoe has a few issues, but performance-wise it's a big step that many runners will benefit from. Same can be said for the AF3...massive upgrade that made the shoe better, faster and more comfortable in every way.
I always still like the "idea" of wearing "elite" shoes despite now only just being able to run a sub 20 5K. To do so on Sunday, I choose a pair of Vaporfly 2 now what 4 years old and would probably have used a 6 year old Vaporfly 1 if had one to hand on the day. Both still very "super" compared to flats and I guess the days when only the "better" runners raced in flats are maybe "sort of" returning if theme here really plays out. Then again it is 99.9% the athlete but 0.1% can make all the difference at elite level. I never have found much love for the Alphafly 3 for instance and yet would be an hour behind those that can get the most out of them. And despite several attempts to buy a Evo 1 have failed every time so in a way the availability not the price is the issue.
If You want a pair of Evo 1 in Adidas Colombia is avaliable but the problem ia your size, i check today and the biggest size in stock is 12 usa
Do You need a size 13 uk (14 US)
In Adidas us there are some pairs but the biggest is size is 12.5 us
@@cesarzoghbi4695 yes UK 13.5 I take in adidas which is also US 14. Never seen one in my size anywhere although they were offered in the draws.
You know, I was thinking about your point, on "better or serious runners racing in flats". I think we are seeing a bit of a return to that in the sense that we have super shoes like the Hoka Cielo X1 that are great options for a casual runner to race in but are VERY different super shoes from what an elite would wear to go after a WR time (and for those reading this saying one or two random elites have raced in the Cielo x1, I know...but thats an edge case)....it's not going back to racing in trainers of proper flats...but there is definitely another tier of super shoes evolving, never intended for an elite, instead intended for a casual non-elite runner... it's interesting.
Evo 1s were FINALLY available here in Taiwan, at retail and online, a few weeks ago... over a year too late to be of any use. I passed on them...
Endorphin elite 2 looks pretty interesting with that new foam?
Likely not for elites anywhere. That shoe will likely never see a World Major podium...but for non-elite runners it should be great...something like a Hoka Cielo X1 type use case.
Would Mizuno's Wave Rebellion Pro 3 beta qualify for the elite tier do you think?
Given its extra-soft midsole and very innovative design packing more than 40mm stack in the midfoot area (heel and forefoot remain under 40mm to stay WA legal), I wouldn't be surprised if a non-sponsored elite athlete chose it and ran close to the 2h mark.
Not even in the slightest. The elite tier is dominated by Nike, Adidas and Asics. It’s not to say there aren’t decent super shoes out there beyond that…. But no elite is going to choose them for a reason.
A non sponsored elite “could” do what you said…. They also “could” show up to a start line in roller skates. Both are as likely to happen in a world major.
@SagasuRunning Why wouldn't an elite choose the WRP3?
Odd and clunky design and geometry and foams thet aren’t on par with what Nike, Adidas or ASICS put out. I know Mizunos are popular for those who love them but they are very niche…
Show me a single elite or pro runner, outside of Japan, getting results in a Mizuno anything.
@SagasuRunning It's a new shoe though (the WRP3) so it may well change things for Mizuno.
@aliasgharkhoyee9501 Not going to hold my breath for that one. Just being honest…
I wish me a more firm alphafly 3 for Xmas. I want a 1cm longer Airunit towards the back. Otherwise i think its perfection 👍
That’s very specific. Going to be hard to get there. 1cm back? So you want true midfoot striker version. After running in the Victory 2 spikes… I wish the air unit was a little more forward in the AF3.
@SagasuRunning yes, im more a mid/forfot. Especially when the run gets longer. And at 85 kilos AF3 sometimes feels like a flat tire 😅
@13lars I can see that… for sure.
Very interesting commercially to see this trend spread over multiple brands. But I have questions for your predictions, again… do you see this as a way to make the Alphafly “more consumer friendly (and maybe even more durable, with more outsole rubber), or do you see this as the elite tier being like a refined, slightly tweaked Alphafly that is just pushes the boundaries a little, or is this in your opinion the beginning of a “mega tier”, where there is tailered shoes, with massive innovation to help pushing the limits to the breaking point (think Formula 1 level innovation and taylored shoes)? Because at the end of the day, Vaperfly and Alphafly are race shoes, but I still guess it’s limited how much sense it makes to have +4 marathon options in Nike alone (VF, AF, VF Elite, AF Elite)? Your take on this commercially and technically? 👟🏁
Refined and slightly tweaked in the short term… and a space to go mega tier/next gen as the next wave of materials enters running.
I do see F1 type materials use and innovation….
I also don’t think every shoe will get and elite tier. Im actually curious if we will see a VF4 Elite…. Or will the VF4 just be more hardcore…. The SF2 certainly looks hardcore. Nike is going all in on “air” so a AF3/AF3E makes sense. It’s something I’m going to cover closely in 2025. I think it can go multiple ways. I’m curious which way it does.
@ As always glad to hear your perspectives. It makes sense, and I’m likewise curious to see where it goes from here 😊👍🏁👟
I think World Athletics should change the rule about race legal shoes to remove the requirement that these elite/prototype shoes are available to buy. The actual enforcement of the rule is quite lax. The purpose was to create level competition. In reality most athletes are on contract with a shoe sponsor and cannot use another brand or the pricing and availability and release timing renders these elite shoes practically unavailable for a premier competition event for the remaining unattached athletes.
The rule doesn’t actually achieve the intended result in any way.
As we have discussed, multiple times, I partly agree. I do think the enforcement of the rule is quite lax....but I like the fact that ultimately brands needs to offer the shoe for sale (even in obtuse ways). The Evo 1 is a good example of this. That need kept the shoe in check in based in reality... otherwise it could have gotten more out of hand (which is best for true development protos that brands test behind closed doors). What shows up in public on elites feet should be something you can buy...somehow.
its like buying a Track Day Car or everyday Super Car
Yeah, and not really knowing how to drive either of them to their full potential!
Yup...I worked through an early draft of this video using a car analogy (using Porsches)...from the standard 911, to a GT# to a factory GT cup car. But it was WAY too specific...but the analogy is there for sure.
I mean you CAN go pick the kids up at school in your track car...but why?
Yup... same issue...reaching the potential of the gear.
Well i have news the adiós pro Evo 2 in silver was in the feet of Belihu of Etiopía nut he dnf at 30km at Valencia that info is confirmes i review the race at the point of he stoped and was the Evo 2
I expect to see the majority of Adidas Elites in the Evo 2 for the spring 2025 marathon season...
It looked like the PRO4 as the carbon rods (black) are visible from the racing shots where Belihu is shown. EVO does not cut out the rods. Belihu has DNF in two marathons this season.
@coachwanga-vj6nk That is a good way to spot the difference. Does the Evo 2 have the CPU (Lightraxion) outsole? I haven’t seen the bottom yet .
@@SagasuRunning the outsole of the Evo 2 Is diferent to Evo 1 and ia very similar to pro 4 Belihu was selected to probé the shoe. The easiest way to check was the exact moment in he drop off the race the camera show the shoe and ia not the pro 4 i the silver and red Evo 2 prototype
You could get a job with adidas marketing with these presentations!
Haha... my agency background never leaves me.
Hey, I’m not gonna complain. I’m not really convinced I’m using my daily trainers to their “full potential” lol
Ha! You and me both. I actually had an alternative take where I said that with a Pegasus in my hand...but thought it was too mean so I used another take. So true though. 🤣
As soon as you say “consumer model”, everybody knows what your getting. I’ll wait.
Depends on the shoe. For the Dragonfly 2 example...I bought the normal Dragonfly 2, non-elite, as that is what I needed. It really comes down to what the "elite" version is and what I'm racing or need.
if these truly are the fastest shoes, non elite runners will buy them even if they cost 500$ and even if they fall apart after 50k
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i would like to see super elite shoes with lower stack heights
I have a few videos on why I think this is coming in the next few years... we will see if I'm right... But I do think they are coming.
@@SagasuRunning NB pacerv2 springs to mind for many brands to follow. heel stack 36-38 lightweight stable energetic
@stubestrong Adios 9, Takumi Sen 11 & Streakfly 2…. Those are on my radar for 2025. Especially that last one.
Kiptum ran 2.00.35 in regular Alphafly's, so where is the Pointe in "elite" Level shoes?
Kiptum was Kiptum. Also a shoe is only good for a minute or two for the marathon distance. The rest is the athlete. He was definitely special.
The point is: comparing shoes is one thing - comparing runners is a completely different thing. So what is the point in adding the "human factor" in a discussion about shoes?
But a smart, know-it-all guy like you of course knows what Kiptum would have run in an Evo 1 ... or just a Pegasus ...
We are not going to find that many Kiptum's right? So the idea is that giving non-Kiptim level but still good elite athlete a fractional advantage for him to achieve Kiptum level performance.
@TolunayOrkun Theoretically… But there are elites out there who have his ability and are training for it… it is just a matter of time.
Nnormal’s Kboix 01 is out! Waiting for your review🫡
Likely won’t review the production pair as it’s very similar to the one I was testing. I will be covering the Kjerag 2 in the spring though.
Nike seems like they are copying Apple’s yearly iPhone offerings.
Similar strategy… yes.
And these days I am following the Apple offerings with a few year generation gap. Updates are no longer offering that much more power or value for me and I think most Apple users are thinking like me that their sales have slowed down and you no longer see those lines outside of Apple Stores (remember iPhones pre 6? ) We have reached mature sections of S curve in cell phone technology. Are there elite iPhone users? Yes and no. There are some that will be pushing the limits but unfortunately unlike in athletics there are no phone competitions.
1st comment ❤
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