Removing a HUGE Transmission from 1957 Autocar Semi Truck
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- Опубліковано 10 лис 2021
- Doesn’t seem like a lot was accomplished but it’s a big step in the right direction!
All previous videos of this truck can be seen here: • 1957 Autocar Truck
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#Kroil - Авто та транспорт
Rebuild the trans yourself, can always call your buddy if you have questions or take it there if truly stuck. With previous gear box experience, this will be a great way to learn transmissions. Like seeing Christine in the background of your recent videos.
Matt.. Before you order up any bearing kit or other parts for that unit, take a carefull look at the video from 20:02 to 20:20. Look in the gap between the input shaft first gear where the shaft passes through the housing from the gearbox side. When you were rocking the input shaft I could clearly see what I think was the Outer Track of the Input Shaft Bearing moving in the Bell housing. That would suggest that (water cooled) bearing has at some time has been seized and the entire bearing has been spinning in the housing. If I'm right that could mean the housing is scrap. I suggest you take a very close look and, if I were doing that job I would be doing a total strip down before ordering any new parts. I strongly suspect you might have much bigger problems than you think.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so. I'm old school mechanic and long time retired, I'm also across the pond so can only watch not help.
Best of luck and I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so.
I hope you read this Mat, cause I think Phil is right. I hope he's wrong also, but I think not. Good luck with it!
Putting a comment here in the hopes it will generate some traffic, good eye.
@@themotorfreak1 .
*- Agreed. I put a whole comment addressed to [ MATT ] just to get his attention.*
Looks to me only the inner ring of the bearing is moving hope I'm right.
Hello from the US! What part of Europe are you from?
It makes such a big difference when you have lifting equipment, compressed air and air hoses for your air tools.
I have become addicted to your theme music.
I always watch to the end. Looking forward to seeing Christine's makeover 👍
Me too!!!
Matt, it is how you show things that give the impression of being a professional mechanic. But you add comedy into the job.
Made me laugh. I misread show as SLOW.
I agree. He may not necessarily have experience, HOWEVER he has incredibly strong mechanical inclination and is highly resourceful with all he knows and learns along the way.
Well to me he is more than professional .. an expert in disguise ...
Haha why not?
I think you should proceed with this transmissioin overhaul, Matt !! I am confident you can do it - I really am !! Besides, I want to see you tackle the overhaul myself !! Said it before - I really enjoy your channel and you're not shy about about admitting your mistakes !! Good on you, Matt !!
That's all I had in my day no power tools except muscles.
15 year Peterbilt tech here. 23:07 looks a lot like an Eaton clutch, if an older one. Should still be able to get replacements fairly easily. That works different from an automotive style clutch. Most cars are a push type where the throw out bearing pushes levers or fingers towards the engine to disengage the clutch. That style is a pull type clutch. The throw out bearing is a part of a clutch assembly. Forks pull the bearing towards the transmission to disengage the clutch. That may even have a clutch brake on the input shaft (didn't get a good look earlier in the video) that slows the input shaft so its easier to get in gear from a standstill. Looks to be a standard SAE bell housing design, one thats still used today.
I would strongly suggest changing that input shaft. The splines may not be completely worn out, but there is a step worn in it that can keep the discs pushed against the flywheel and make it hard to get in gear.
When you go back together, watch the fork as it goes in. Sometimes the fork won't roll around the front of the throw out bearing as it goes in and can get stuck in the clutch housing.
As a nearly 30 year technician, you don't fool me a bit. That said, you work on stuff using logic, you're confident in the face of adversity, and pretty methodical. These three things got me to the top of my industry, without much formal education. Keep at it, you're doing great things.
Looks a lot like the Spicer Trans on an M35a2.
This truck may be a pain in the ass to fix, but once you do, it will probably run forever.👍
Wow! The old fiat allison loader fired right up! Nice to see you getting a use out of all these pieces of equipment we've watched you bring back to life!
Matt, you are a northern lad and you know that all of your "finds" need to be under a roof and out of the weather. I know because my Dad brought me up the same way. All of my things are parked under roof! Good Luck!
You may professional help, but not for the transmission 😁. I admire how you're not intimidated to jump into any project/repair even if you don't have experience with it and still make it work.
Ha! Just before ‘first things first, I’m going to kroil the living crap outa…’ I was picturing a 55 gallon drum of kroil just off camera.
I enjoy how you do things as a one man show. It is not always about the right tools, but how you use the tools that you have.
Matt, dive in and do it yourself. Do some research and use your buddy for the ever important "phone-a-friend" when you get stuck. Go for it!
A muscle powered box wrench? That's gotta be the first time I've seen you use a tool that's not powered in some way!
As to your patreon, you're not really taking money from strangers for nothing. You're providing us something to watch and if folks are prepared to pay for it, there's nothing wrong with that.
Its been a while since I have messed with a clutch, but the input has two wear spots because it is a double disk clutch. Considering it is only a single counter shaft transmission, your general gear box knowledge is plenty to rebuild it. A parts diagram or manual would get you through it. I don't know if your lowboy has a detachable neck or not, but making sure the PTO works would give you the ability to run the trailer's hydraulics if it has them. Having a wet kit on the truck for a winch or trailer functions would be handy for loading future projects up behind the Autocar.
It never hurts to have a second opinion and since you are working on a vintage truck it might save you some dollars to ask your friend to help.
Matt, you don’t give yourself enough credit. Though you may not be a full time mechanic earning your living at, anyone who can take apart the machines you do, troubleshoot, repair and reassemble them is a damned good mechanic. Especially working on the tremendous variety and age of the machinery you tackle.
You don’t need tons of specific experience if you have a good operational mechanic brain. Which you clearly have indeed. Experience transfers and common sense works across the board. Always love watching you work things out. Thanks as alway Matt.
Also: man you have built a serious collection of very cool equipment!
Matt you worked so fast in this video surprised the whole job wasn't done in this video lol Happy Veterans Day to all my fellow veterans!
Thanks to all who served. And thank you for your service.
Awesome Matt!
I'm looking forward to the day when you can load up Christine on the low-boy trailer and transport it to the antique heavy equipment show with the fully restored Autocar.
I know this is an old video, but 8f anyone can fly solo first time, it's you Matt.
“FAT ALLICE” and “WHOOPING CRANE” performed to expectation. Nice to see your hard work in repairs bears such sweet fruit!
That is a cool old truck. Glad to see you working on a piece of the old girl. Nice to see “Ticky” the Crane play a vital role in getting that huge transmission out. Stuff goes slower with one person, I have the same issue at my shop. Looks like the Fiat Allis is earning her keep as well, amazing how she starts, 24 volt starter helps. Thanks again for taking us along on your adventures.
Thanks 👍
@@DieselCreek HINT - A drop sheet on the ground makes finding dropped nuts/washers/etc easier. And then you used one!!! Must be psychic... And then for the body, and then not.... (comment as we go). And I do watch to the end so I know why the cover....
Matt, I do watch to the end of your videos. They are some of the best on UA-cam. I also see all of the bits and pieces of "Christine". I'm looking forward to seeing more of her in the future. 👍👍👍😊 Great job as usual.
Howdyyawl from the land down under.Firstly, it's good to see your wife & you working together as a team. Looking onto tracy, looks like the needle bearimgs Btween the shafts have worn out. The box will have to be recond. Take note where every thing is, should have no probs 😊
Don’t put yourself down Matt the old trucks was a lot more simple to work on then the new ones
Matt the bad bearing on the Input shaft caused all the other elements to suffer damage.
Crane-cam is a good shot. And you don't need a millennia of mechanical experience, you need the spirit of the master mechanic. Knowing all things are possible takes you half way there.
What could go wrong? But really Matt, that is half the fun of watching you on these projects. You're lack of fear is infectious and inspiring. Thanks again and keep them coming. I'm jonesing in between videos.
Before you drop money on rebuild kits etc, disassemble it and make sure you don't need a new shaft or a gear here & there.
If you need hard parts, it'll make a good used transmission look attractive financially.
I for one have always liked the little Easter Eggs you drop in at the end of your vids, showing upcoming content. If others can't be bothered watching til the end or not understanding what they are seeing, then that's their lookout........
Your a very humble man Matt and we viewers appreciate that! I also say GO FOR IT, dive right into that trans and take tons of pictures to refer to. You can do it!
I never disassembled a transmission of that size before. I have taken apart smaller 5speed transmissions and the spring loaded synchronizers were the most difficult part. You got this! 👍
Based on what I've seen you do since I've started watching your channel, there isn't any doubt in my mind that you can rebuild the transmission. I can't believe your skills! You, Camaratta, and Jesse amaze me. Good luck.
Diesel creek! 2 years + ish of watching you Matt! Stuff is coming along nicely buddy
The new logo looks great.
Yeah I like the modernization of the logo, may even grab a shirt now.
Hey Matt
Having rebuild a few gear boxes in years past and having watched you for some months.
Your more than capable of knocking this out. The only pit falls might be having the correct size rods and drifts to slide through when re assembling lay shafts in the bearings and gears.
Worse case ya may have to bush fix some gizmo.
Its often what I did, even a wooden dowel will do to line things up, to slip shafts in.
Good luck, hope ya film the whole process.
Just assume EVERY bearing is shot in that thing. You are already shooting video, just use tags on the gears and reassemble in the the reverse of disassembly. As long as the gears are not worn or chipped, SEND IT!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!
FYI sometimes you can sneak in a 3/8s drive socket on a swivel on the end of a long extension once you break the bolts loose
Hang a chain hoist off the crain hook that way you can control the up and down from there rather than by guess and by golly from the crain deck
Hi, As an "ole timer" a professional would know short cuts, however you certainly have the skills to tackle the job. As a rule these transmissions were pretty simple but sometimes special tools were required. Good luck!
So, what you're saying is he would have an "excuse" to buy some specialized tools?!?? That would be all I needed to hear to head out shopping for new tools!
@@colin8532 AND Christmas is just around corner, with Black Fridays coming, when the prices drop!
Hi, if
Phil Yew is correct on the housing, it could be machined and a bush inserted to reclaim the casing, there should be plenty of meat to allow this.
Also if you find play in the selector forks I have in the past sif bronze brazed the faces and then machined or filed them back to fit the hubs. Hope this may be of use and you are well able to overhaul this box yourself. you will need a dummy first motion shaft to hold the bearing needles and thrust washers in place until you refit the first motion shaft ( at a push the dummy shaft can be made of wooden dowel ! ) As I live in the UK I would love to assist you with this bit of a chore but I am still working at the age of 74 and too old!!
Matt, great to see you working on the Autocar, look forward to the transmission repair!
You should do another collaboration with Watch Wes Work and rebuild the transmission.
This would be awesome!
@@CumminsDriver100 agreed! Enjoy watching that session.
I third that motion!
That would be so cool
Hell yeah. Came to this channel for the Autocar, stayed for Matt.
When you dropped that Castle Nut into the transmission, it reminded me of a similar 'oops' when I was serving on a sub. A mechanic was working on the reduction gears. They were so expensive the navy only rented them. They could handle about 90,000 shaft horsepower. The mechanic dropped an Allen wrench. Took him 3 days to find it. He got a new nickname.
You can do it Matt, no big deal. The needle bearings between the input shaft and secondary shaft will be trashed. Hopefully it isn't too bad, that input shaft may not be too easy to come by,. Clutch looks normal, old style pressure plate and doesn't look like a twin disc clutch. When you replace the pilot bearing you'll find out. It may or may not need replacing considering that you aren't going to put the old gal back in service.
Reading other comments, I don't think the housing is bad, remove the throwout bearing shaft and then remove that front cover and you can pull out the input shaft. Snap rings may be involved. Rewatching the end and the pressure plate, it very well may be a dual clutch disc setup.
Can't wait Matt, I'm glad to see the autocar once again!
Hey Matt, that input shaft is replaceable and it goes into a bearing at least on the newer stuff (70s up). When I pull a trans, I don't put it back in with a new clutch without changing that shaft. I've seen them twist off in the past, depending on how it's driven. I'd be changing the rear main seal and rear structure gaskets on that engine while it's out. Or better yet, update it to something more modern but still mechanical just to make the ole girl more usable. Can't wait for a Christine update! She looks good sitting there
Great advise.
Yes I'd have to agree with my learned friend better to replace the input shaft if possible and seals... thats coming from a tight fisted yorkshire man ( tight fisted means doesn't like spending money..) for you guys in America:-)
As long as I have the transmission removed on my s10 I have to replace the slave cylinder, mines the weird one thats inside the transmission 😑
@@koreywilliams4570 that style is pretty common on the smaller transmissions. I've done a few hot rods with that style hydraulic slave cylinder. Always good to change that stuff when it's out so you don't have to pull it again.
Nothing wrong with that engine. Too much work to change it out probably.
Lights on the Fiat are pretty sweet bright ones! Looks like they make things way easier!
There is no magic in a manual transmission. You will have no problems with your existing knowledge. Remember, there is no try, only do.
Anytime you can have a professional assist, it makes it easier and you have a reasonable assurance that it will be put back together correctly. One missing washer could ruin a thousand dollars worth of parts.
Matt, do the rebuild on the trans yourself! You're more than capable, and it'd make an awesome video.... Plus, I think a lot of your subscribers (or maybe just me) would like to see the condition of it as it comes apart. No matter what you decide to do with it, it's good to know someone has an appreciation for these old trucks! 👍👍
Matt, I would suggest locating a vintage "Motors Heavy Truck" repair manual, for that era or a couple years later, most likely find it online or eBay, It will have all the specs of that truck, plus Whites, Macks, ect, and specs plus rebuild proceedures of both, tramissions, engines, rear ends, steering gears, brakes, ect. They are worth their weight in gold. That way you can tackle anything on that truck that needs repaired. Good luck, You can repair that Spicer yourself.
Matt's going to add this to his letter to Santa!
I belive you will be Just fine jumping in and tearing this manual transmission apart and foxing it Just a big Giant Gear Box brother Love the Videos Matt 23:20 @Diesel Creek
We knew a 15 year old kid that could rebuild manual transmissions just because he had the knack. Much older and more experienced mechanics took their stuff to him. I think you have the knack for it too. It will be fun to watch.
Old transmissions like that are nice and simple, don't even need to worry about syncros. Get all the bearings/bushes swapped and the clearances right and she'll be good to go.
Id say that it has bronze or powder metal synchros in it?
@@formulized94 Trucks mostly have unsynchronised gearboxes anyway. You usually float gears.
I’d love to see you rebuild that transmission. I have no doubt you have the ability too. With the vast availability of manuals available online, forums, UA-cam, etc - any problem or issue you come across there is usually answers to them relatively easy to find.
That’s awesome you know how to work on him that’s very good
If you can get your hands on a shop manual that has the specifications for the transmission, torque values, spacing, shims, and so on, I am sure you can handle the rebuild Matt. I am confident of your skills!
Hi Matt, i watched you turn wrenches on so many projects and believe that you are more than capable to work on this trans buddy. I've been watching you for years work on all sorts of stuff with only normal issues that anyone could have. I back you 120% brother, your a smart guy, you got this Matt. I'm looking forward to your next video. Cheers Big Benny, from the east coast of Australia N.S.W.
Matt, rebuild the transmission on your own. No better way to learn then hands on. If you always get stuck, I’m sure your buddy will help you out. Also, if your okay answering it, may I ask what you do for a living? Your an excellent video maker with strong mechanical skills. Thanks
The input gear will wobble when it is not supported by the pilot bushing. If you take the tranny apart have a pile of 3"x3" ziplock bags and a permanent marker. Clean it before you do anything and layout a clean tarp. As you take a gear off buckets of needle roller bearings are going to flow out. Mark the bag with the location of removal and quantity of rollers. Layout all parts like they came out.
To rebuild... Use thick grease to line where rollers go and glue them in place with the grease. While the input gear is out use it to align the clutch and throw-out. Don't forget to change the little seal in the bearing retainer for the input gear.
Good Luck.
Christine is looking really nice and YELLOW - Good that you have the truck crane working to pull the Autocar clutch and gearbox.
Yeah the truck he never meant to buy. Just getting rid of that belt squeal increased it's value.
Thanks for the video Matt.
I personally think you are more than capable of rebuilding an old truck gearbox.
As you said as long as you can get the bearings and parts for the old girl it's a case of taking your time.
The worst that could happen is you end up taking it to your friend in parts.
Use a strap or chain with a wrap around the fork when lifting and "Wheel barrowing" a truck around like that. That way you won't loose control of it if the fork slips out. I was waiting for you to smash your transmission when the fork slipped off.
There is always some slop in the input shaft because when the trans is out you lose the support of the pilot bearing which is what holds it in alignment for the most part. But that did look like too much slop.. That trans is super easy to work on! There won't be any tight press fits and not many parts there. It looks good too - not abused. I wouldn't worry too much about that little bit of wear on the input shaft at the pilot bearing.
My dad once took a quadbox out of a Mack........to get it under the chassis rails to drag it out from underneath, he spent a day with a shovel digging a massive hole. Your missing bearing belongs to top gear. Its very common in trucks that top gear physically wears out way before anything else. I would bet that what you have is a Spicer 4 x 4 combination of main box and joey box. The Mack "quad-box or quad-plex" was basically two transmissions joined together into one gigantic behemoth. By nature of them being 'single countershaft' those boxes are very heavy without being able to handle much torque. The twin countershaft Eaton made RoadRanger wiped everything out when they came on the market and have dominated ever since.
Het Matt, great to see you wrenching on the Autocar Truck, thing is a beast, cant wait to see that thing going down the road! Great video as usual Matt!
Just as you mentioned near the end of the video, if you have a good parts breakdown, that will get you through it. You will do just fine with it on your own.
Just be prepared, there will likely be roller bearings falling all over the place :)
I used to R&R these kinds of transmissions for a living. That wear on the input shaft is because the truck has a double-disc clutch. That input shaft is shot. I'd also be looking at the bushings and shafts for the clutch throw-out bearing fork.
Please don't _ever_ lift one of those transmission like that ever again. If you're going to support it from the top like that, you need a strap under the front where the trans case meets the bell housing, and another under the rear about where the internal rib separates the front and rear internal sections.
To reinstall it, I'd highly recommend using an appropriated rated 'engine-tilting' type device bolted to four corners of where the top cover bolts on. Getting that thing stabbed through _two_ clutch discs and the pilot bearing will be very difficult if you can't line the input shaft up _exactly._
You could probably handle the rebuild yourself, but I'd ask your friend if there are any tricky bits you need to be aware of.
I absolutely agree as a r&r myself, but finding parts in 2021 is getting harder by the day 😒
Mechanical aptitude and confidence make you a great mechanic. And heck, if ain’t right the first time, it’s not like it’s someone else’s! Keep up the great content!
Based on what I've seen you attempt and complete and the fact that I have done many manual and auto trans I'm positive you can rebuild this trans with no problem. I hope you decide to do it yourself and take us along.
Putting that transmission back is a joy to look forward to.
Not too bad if you plan for the eventualities...
Atta boy, Matt - just not afraid to tackle about anything !!
Go for it you got man you are Mechanicly inclined
DAMN SON YOU BLOWIN UP, CONGRATULATION ALMOST 350K SUBS
I used to fix everything myself but as I've gotten older you can't imagine the joy I get out of paying someone to do the heavy work. Small jobs I still do my self
I don't want you to take this the wrong way but I've been a Mechanic at least 46 years, and I learned that if I'm not familiar with a certain type of repair, I take it to a professional. I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say. Good luck with that, my friend. I just wish I lived close enough to you where I could just drive to your place and help you with it, not for money but just to give me something to do, I'm retired and going stir-crazy, lol. Thanks again for sharing.
Thanks Matt,
Nice quality video and intro music. Got to love a Autocar, Brockway, REO etc...
Matt, when the ground is frozen Never lift the tires off the ground with the outriggers, you and the truck will then be ice skating if the ground isn’t perfectly level. Not a ride you really want to take. You should have no problems rebuilding the gear case, parts should be available same with the clutch pack.
Lots of good comments by the time I got here. Yea, I think you can handle the rebuild, but since pro help is available, I'd go for it.
You absolutely have the skills to tackle this rebuild yourself, I'd love to see it.
Our family runs a auto salvage yard...about 8 years ago we bought our first Milwaukee Fuel 1/2 cordless Impact guns...we absolutely love them...We had tried Dewalt, Ingersoll Rand, and Makati beforehand...they all make decent products..but when the going gets tough..It Milwaukee time.. 👍
I saw you painted Christine in one of the recent outros.
Excited to see that as well as the current video.
Oh, that was a smart way to do it. I would have dropped it inside, and realized after. I've done car transmissions before, not those big boys. Love the way you work.
I think you'll be able to do it. Just take your time, take lots of photos, find a manual, and do it. You may not have done it before, but every transmission man also said the same thing. I've never done one of these before.
You can do it ! A good parts manual and shop manual help...but 22 years in the SEABEES, I've torn stuff down in the jungle, desert, outback and Antarctic!
Great option to have half of the used equipment in the US at your disposal when you need it! HA ! Love it. Most any "mechanic shop" would not have this as an option and they work by the hour (s). That's the reason many of these ole timers end up in the scrap yard. Thank you for saving Granddads model truck from the "yard". I guess he would have been proud of you & your industrious work ethic.
"like every flat surface I own..." JFC truer words were never spoken. No matter how much storage or surface area I add, it quickly fills. Maybe I'm just a hoarder but damnit, I'll need this s@#$ some day...
Preach!! Lol
I have the same situation with my workbench. I have to clean it off before every project but not until then. My lady mentions it every time she walks by it to go to her car. I'm thinking if she would just park outside she wouldn't have to see that workbench - the easiest answer to her dilemma.
Yea but then youd fill up that garage spot with more shit and she’d just keep bitching about how she’d love it if she could ever use “her” garage again to everybody who came over..
I've been saying my next home will have 45* angle shelves.
Horizontal surfaces are a nightmare lol
I have always lived by the notion that if another person can do it so can I. Many people have rebuilt those transmissions and probably not as smart as you. You can do it!
Go for it. if ya end up needing help, get help. Always glad to see Autocar vids.
We had a class in the navy, "tools and their uses" a wrench is not a hammer. But sometimes a wrench makes a good hammer
If you have a buddy available and willing to help out with the transmission it'd be a good idea to invite him over to make sure you rebuild it correctly.
Go visit with your transmission friend and have him help you. It'd be good content too. Clutch is no odd ball.
MATT I would strongly suggest replacing the clutch and input bearing all so pull fly wheel have it turned as well check for leakage from rear main seal on engine look like a 220 Cummins and if you are worried about the wear on input shaft you could replace with spline saver clutch if I remember the input shaft is a inch and 7/8 putting the needle bearing on the shafts was the hard part with wheel bearing grease . That was the old way packing the shaft with needle bearing. I believe and taking one out for spacing and replacing the gear over the shaft with out losing any that s what my dad used me for the new way had a plastic cage that made it much easier . Trying to locate a replacement input shaft mite be costly that 5 speed trains mission had a low low or over drive . I remember helping my Dad old times .
As a collector of fine old iron myself, I really enjoy seeing you work on those beautiful pieces you have amassed! My Transtar II is hanging around out back with its' fingers crossed in hopes of percolating to the top of my projects list...and Autocar is inspiring me to bump up his priority rating! 🤘🤯
The clutch assembly is most likely going to be an old style 2 disc setup. That would explain why you have two wear spots on the input splines.
That right
Can it be modernized? Improved?
@@pootthatbak2578 that old school transmission is almost indestructible, with normal maintenance, other than bearing failure. Matt's biggest issue is the lack of maintenance causing the problem. I wouldn't modernize it, that could cause even more problems.
@@pootthatbak2578 twin disc is still pretty much the best for heavy truck transmissions to this day and he may want to be careful as that is most likely an asbestos clutch (one of the best if not the best clutch friction materials ever used)
@@dodgeme1986truck Matt!!!! ASBESTOS ALERT!!! Don't blow down will the air!!!!
I love how you could edit things out, but leave them in and it shows you as an average Joe ! Speaking of Joe !
Using a line from our greatest failure of a leader, "Come - on man !" You know better than to leave that un-covered ! Put a rag over it, or lid on it !
Great video ! 👀. 👍🏻
It doesn't appear very complicated I believe you got that man.
Yep barring kits. Mainly Dismantal get barring #s..and get the input shaft, there available. Ez peezy. Clutch is same . Some modern ones you can get an" eazy peddle". We use them quite often.. I've changed 100s of em