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Tesla Model 3 SR+ LFP cold weather testing
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2021
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Man I love the way you talk. I am Chinese and I have been living in Denmark for 18 years and you reminds me of myself. I am looking into EVs and I have been enjoying your videos, funny and very very helpful !!!
He is Norwegian
I like watching your winter videos.
Sending warmth from Texas
This should be sent to all Tesla drivers based on their local weather forecast, their pack config and their history of taking care of it or not... :) Great honest and to the point review. EV's all need a little care...
I still want a button for heat up the battery and an indicator of the battery temperature on the screen just like the water temperature on fossils.
You have it. Just choose your nearest supercharger on your route and the car will automatically enable battery warming on your way to it.
@@roygardiner4002 That's bullshit, this is just a bad workaround. A Supercharger that I often visit is just 8km away from my home. Should I sit an hour in my car, so the preheating of my LFP battery has actually an effect? The button is necessary, in the App and in the car because we still don't have waypoints.
Why you want a button? 🤔
Update your Tesla App to the latest version and you can preheat your Tesla via your app. At least I can do it here in Germany with my TM3 LFP 2021.
@@randynos.5933 You can't heat the battery without heating the cabin on a Model 3 (2018). It is possible to select 'navigate to Supercharger' and sit in the car in the driveway.
Great video. I have a M3 SR+ with a 55 kWh LFP in the US, and it's just starting to get that cold in my area. Limited sample size, but I haven't noticed any differences or a drop in performance yet either.
When setting a destination it would be nice to have a checkbox for preheating the battery, for the non-Tesla chargers.
Actually that works now.
Tesla added nearly all DC chargers in my region in the charge panel. You can just click on them and navigate, it will preheat also!
@@kruemelfelix Yeah right. In Germany they added EnBW / Ionity / Allego / Fastned.. More is less all the DC HPCs. Don't know in other countries.
Totally agree Tick Box would be the solution. Ordered M3 Arr 2022- Does anyone know if this is possible in The UK i.e Have They added Non Tesla Charges on The Tesla Map?
@@jkev1425 Nice to know, thank you! Waiting for my SR+ deliver in March.
Will be charged at EnBW chargers only, because there is no alternative in my region yet.
Great timing for this video. We have our model 3 LFP arriving in a few months, and it will be pretty cold in Ohio. This is good information to have.
Indeed, getting a 60 kWh 2022 Model 2 in February. Nice to know, that they are performing well now. Nyland data FTW! (:
Might be interesting, but on LFP batteries the amount of SoC which you arrive at chargers doesn't really matter anylonger.
I hammered on the Autobahn some weeks ago and arrived with 70% at a supercharger and got 130kW peak still, around 70kW at 90%.
The curve will just shift to the right. You can try it yourself :P
And what is shown in this video is really a totally unreasonable scenario for most people I guess. If you charge with AC the car won't heat up the battery at all I think and if you start at let's say 80% the battery will be warm enough for 100kW+ at the next supercharger.
Bjorn try to charge this car up to 100%. You will be surprised about charging speed :) On weekend after driving 150km I was getting 20kW at 98%. At Lier 250kW supercharger.
Thanks for the interesting and informative video Bjørn. I do remember your video from a few years back when the Oslo underground park and charge facility was opened. Facilities like these make it a lot easier to ABC. 😀
"There's always a Tesla Supercharger nearby". I'll remember that, if we ever get to Norway. The closest one to us in Canada is 99 km away. Unless our destination is the other way, then it's maybe across the Arctic ocean in Norway.
99km is close enough for the vehicle to start pre heating. Also I think they started to add other chargers to their navigation. And using scheduled departure you can pre heat the battery as well.
@@Isamu1013 But it's sometimes 99 km in the wrong direction. Usually in very cold weather the battery pre heater only comes on at about 70 km from the destination. It should be manually switchable. There aren't many other DCFCs either, Tesla's is the closest at 99 km. Going north or east there aren't any, anywhere.
Excellent work, Bjorn! Like a test engineer with real world conditions and plenty of data to support your observations. Thank you!
BTW, is the multi variable display on your phone a Bluetooth app from Tesla?
Why isn't battery temperature indicated in all EV's? If there was a temp gauge in the instrument cluster, after the first few weeks of usage you could know what to expect from a charging session
Or a metric called like "battery receptiveness" or something. It would indicate how much power, in kilowatts, the battery is able to take. This would factor in pack size, temperature, current state of charge, cell age, cell chemistry, and so on.
Thanks Bjorn for good job
Great tests. Love them. Note that Tesla added a bunch of new DC chargers (EnBw, Ionity, has to be, etc) that now also pre heat the battery. Also I believe the non-need of DC keeps the battery cold and does not affect the range too much. I think Tesla learned it through customers during last winter and now they are just better.
The LFP with 60kwh is even in winter a 10/10 car.
PS: one thing to 13:48. How do you define a little while? I tried myself, 30 minutes city+highway 120 and did not preheat the battery on purpose (limited to 32KW)
It would be great if there was an indication of the battery temperature somewhere on the Tesla (I don't want to add an obd dongle). I know that with the "regen dot" on the dashboard that you can estimate the battery temperature, but that's not enough
@@SHLDMusic yeah but we do not need to know the temperature actually. Only if you need DC you select the charger and it pre conditions itself. If you don't need DC, the car wont waste energy rising the battery temperature for no reason
Thank you, it is very useful
Very interesting info!
For comparison LFP@25 degC: 90 kW. Ioniq5/EV 6(NCM with high nickel content)@25 degC = 220 kW (170 kW when adjusting for the smaller battery of SR+). Ioniq5 and EV6 lacks the preheating feature though. All cars should have a manual "preheat for fast charging" option :(
Bottom Line: don't leave your car at low SoC for the night and then expect to charge it fast the next morning. For most people not really a problem if they can charge overnight.
Even if you can’t charge overnight you can manually pre-condition or schedule a departure time. Model 3 will try and pre-heat the battery and normally only takes 15-20mins to do this unless super cold. Max I’ve used is 2% soc to do this unplugged.
Tesla changed the BMS for regen and winter also in the LG pack for Model 3.. would be interesting to check it out again
Tks for sharing!
i can preheat the battery now for my Tesla Model 3 sr+ 2021 MUSA for other fast chargers in my navigation, i just press the lightning symbol at the navi and all the fastchargers comes up
I kind of feel this makes the previous range video incomplete. Maybe there's a need to make another range video... starting cold battery, then seeing range in the cold but battery preheated. Scenario would be of course, leaving home on winter on a 500+ km trip. Another take at a 1000km LFP challenge ? :p
Those rims are awesome!
Elon already announced that is going to bring the feature of heat up the battery for other other chargers too 👍🏽
Charging in cold is it complicated question. I heard that it’s actually not good to for the battery and that’s why regen is not working when the temperature is below 14°.
I always schedule the departure or manually turn on cabin heating and then I can see a tiny icon beside the battery and usually takes 10 to 30 minutes depends on the temperature.
Overnight I keep the car on the driveway and put it on the slow charger. And keep it between 70-80%.
Usually I calculate the overnight charging finishes in the morning. Even 1 or 2 kW slow charging is keeping the battery on the right temperature.
"There is always a supercharger nearby" - except in Finland Helsinki area. Shame on tesla for not providing SC s in the capitol
Then again Tesla is more expensive than the providers already having HPCs in Helsinki (unless the car has free supercharging). So personally I am not bothered now that Tesla added preheating support for other than Tesla chargers.
Not cold enough! Please do a soak for several days at -15, then do a full charge cycle. This is the airport scenario, but actually some people who park on the street in cold climates may need to leave the car for several days too. To be clear, the scenario is you have to drive somewhere and don’t have enough range to get there, so not the same “just preheat the battery” advice.
Preheating works while driving so it’s applicable to your scenario too.
He can't control the weather. The temps haven't dropped that much yet.
Exactly. It's simply not cold enough yet. I can either wait until January 2022 or do a test now. Lots of people have been waiting for me to test it. Testing it around 0°C is still better than waiting two more months.
And I think this video would be more relevant to more international viewers than a -15c video which would be aimed more at northern Canadian and Scandinavian people.
@@lachlan5165 Tesla is not selling LFP battery cars in Canada at the present. It was minus 12 C yesterday morning in southern Alberta. We usually see have cold battery snowflake / low or no regen from October to May if we don't preheat. We're just not going to buy LFP battery cars for -37 C.
Not as bad as last winter..
Exactly. It means that Tesla must have improved the cold weather performance on LFP battery.
@@bjornnyland Just like they improved the cold weather performance of the LG and Panasonic battery of the 2021 Long Range and 2021 Performance.
What are the differences between this LFP battery and USA made facelift model with heat pump in cold weather?
And I thought parking in Denmark was narrow - that catacomb place, dear lord... Would be worried to get an 'ikea bump' :-/
Great video, is there a way you could do a video of the car at 100%, then drive in cold weather and drive to see the actual range would be?
I’d be curious to see the range loss on a lfp
I did find this test about charging LFP but I had read range was cut by 50% in freezing weather - did you do a test on range?
the charging being poor is not great either. I'll search for more such tests; but if you didn't do one please do.
Hey Bjørn. I'm between Teslas right now. Waiting for a newer Y here in the US. But I heard a rumor that there was a software update that allowed you to navigate to a non-Tesla high speed charger and then if you go into settings for that destination you can tell it to pre-heat the battery. Is that true? The reason I ask is because we will be getting CCS adapters here in the states and so using more non-Tesla chargers.
Regen on cold weather with short preheat is really bad but the lower the SoC the more regen you get.
Correct me if i'm wrong guys
Were there a lot of dashes on the regen bar at the top of the screen? My SR+ LFP always has reduced regen in cold temps (I don't have the ability to precondition the battery before driving). It still regens, but it's not nearly as strong as in the summer.
Bjorn - i need help and guidance, i have a LFP from Dec 2020 in Denmark and i have to be travelling and i live in an apartment, if i leave the car with 80% state of charge , how many days will the battery charge last in December
I reccomend Netatmo weather station so you can log the temp at night
Very interesting for people that don’t manage well the batteries. Always put a supercharger as destination to heat up ;-). Now the last update shows ionity and other chargers, I must check actually if it preheat the battery if we setup those as destination.
Already it will plan with ionity chargers if you don’t have Tesla SuC!! An other video with those functions ?
It does when selecting those chargers!
@@dwalster7538 thank you, I tested as during the route planning but didn't test as destination, now we know, ;-)
How is the regen with LFP, 100% SoC and cold battery ?
May I ask to do a similar case with a 2021 MIUSA SR+ with the NCA batteries? It should give an adequate comparison between LFP and NCA. We know NCA charges slower in summer, but how does it behave at cold? Thanks in advance for consideration
What you think about "lucid car" 1000 kilometre challenge break all car record. ??
Like 8h may be possible
8h is not possible. Even a fossil car needed 9 hours. Lucid should need at least 9 hours 15 minutes best case.
@@bjornnylandthanks from replay I from India state of Gujarat. i am waiting for the Tesla but I have no money this car today but future may be possible.
Thanks you " Bjorn nyland ".
I thought the RWD stator heating power could be up to 3.5kW while not moving (if I remember correctly)? Any idea why the max power was 2.5KW?
Would be cool if there was a selectable option to heat the battery so that you could get better charging rates at non-Tesla fast chargers.
I think this may be enabled in the future with Tesla opening Supercharger to other Evs and CCS adapters being available for US vehicles. That way pre-heat for DC (possibly for AC as well in colder climates...or do Ludicrous owners just start pre-heating by enabling Ludicrous mode?) to keep the edge in ownership experience over other EV brands as it would continue to give lead at non-Tesla Supercharger for DC charging.
I wonder if the 4wd version would heat twice as fast, with two stators providing 2x heat to the battery? Of course they don't make a 4wd LFP version of the car itself.
Yes, both motors will be used.
My Model 3 SR+ with LFP has seen the standard winter range drop, but not anything that makes it unusable. It's drop percentage actually somewhere around the same as this test, so I can vouch for his test with real world standard use as well
Did you get a chance to subject your LFP SR+ to harsh winter conditions i.e. -15c? If so, what are your observations?
@@robinray692I've been surprised how much cold weather affects the consumption and slow charging. easily -40% capacity and always slow charging (takes more than 1.5hours to warm the battery even with supercharger)
@@jjarven An LFP car prefers a garage during colder temperatures (i.e. < 15c) in my experience. At minimum, keep the car plugged into a level 2 source and don't be afraid to use battery preconditioning. My second Tesla is a Model 3 LR built in Shanghai with the LG Chem battery and it seems to do much better in cold.
Is AC Carging via Typ2 effected as well? Will the battery be warmed up with typ2 ? LFP batteries are heavier arent they ?
Do you already have Model 3 MiC Performance models in Norway? Fremont 2021 Performance had 567 km WLTP range and now website lists 547 km WLTP. This is most likely LG battery. I haven't seen any charging test yet.
I will see the Sr+ With or without a heat pump. What are the Different?
The only thing that bugs me in my SR+ is limited regen. From the start of October, I experience it every day since I don’t charge at home and the battery gets cold, around 10-15 c. I also live in a hill so when I start my commute I have a big downhill part that causes the regen to plummet immediately. I believe Bjorn didn’t experience such limited regen because of the very low SoC..
Same here. Wondering why Tesla don’t use a very cheap water cooled heat resistor for regen in cold water and use the head to warm up the battery.
@@erdnussflip3439 yeah, this crossed my mind as well
Set charge limit to 60-70 % and you will have way better regen.
@@bjornnyland not really if you have downhill while going out of your home. Even with battery preheating.
@@erdnussflip3439 They have a free heater, the motor.
I have driven the SR+ LFP several times in 0C winter weather. Nothing surprising. I do wish Tesla could add heated steering wheel. I heard the hardware is there, just need a software unlock.
Did you find a way to unlock?
The heated steering wheel is built-in ready to use in my 2022 Canadian LFP model.
this is exactly the case i will have in my daily business and no Charging Station at home. So i cant just charge to 50-70% while bying something in the city for short time and then drive home. I will need more time to find a AC Parking spot for some hours or something else. I was hoping that this will be possible after Update but it seems not to be.
Great test, this is really interesting. A couple of questions related: Is there any situation in which the car heats or cools the battery when parked?. I mean, if you are in a really cold or hot area and the battery reaches dangerous temperatures, does the car use energy to control it?. Keep the great work!
Yes, the motor heater will start up when it's below minus 30 C outside in southern Alberta, to prevent battery damage. In above 35 C summer temperatures the fans are also sometimes running when the car is plugged in but not charging. (2018 Model 3)
You should try this again with 2021.40 as there are a few changes coming wit target temps and using the heat pump to heat the battery instead of only the DU.
It already had that update. Heat pump was already helping to heat up battery.
@@bjornnyland I see thanks for the information
How high is the vampire drain in the winter?
Good test, seems LFP performs better than expected, but needs higher temps vs many others for fast charging. Can you run another test with battery below 0C? Apparently voltage drops sub zero and causes significantly worse performance, could be interesting to see what happends if battery is at -5C. Regen should be disabled and pwr output should be very limited if what I read is true.
That's my understanding of LiFePo4 as well. Charging at any rate below 0C cell temps will permanently damage the battery. It would have to heat up before any kind of charging/regen.
LFP discharge rate is reduced as temperature drops, the de-rate curve is even more severe and linear than NCA, especially below 0C, as the Li ions are more "trapped" in the structure. At -20C, LFP output is extremely low and can also permanently damage the battery. NCA can withstand a little lower temps without permanent damage. I think around -25C? I can't remember exactly, I read that a long time ago and don't feel like looking it up right now.
How about 11kw ac charge on this weather and cel temp?
Second question : Is there LFP long range model?
Any experience with even colder, like -20°c?
Leapmotor T03 med 403km rekkevidde rundt 100tNOK importør i Norge ?
Kan du ta en titt på MG Marvel R?
bjorn is da man
One question: did tesla made SR + 2020 with 306 hp and 325 hp?
Can't wait for these things to be so bullet proof and automatic as to be irrelevant. In the meantime, thanks for the information.
@Bjørn Nyland Will you release a review on MG marvel r?
I had good performance when my battery temp was -20c and only 10%, drove direct to hpc and charging to 3 to 100% took 2,3h☃️
Why are you charging to 100% at a fast charger?
tesla is dope
I have noticed my model 3 LFP fans are running in recent cold weather, I think it is constantly keeping the battery warm
@timemachine_194 Didn't next move do all this testing before Tesla released an update to address the issues.
Bjorn, your videos are always really interesting. It show us that LFP battery can charge at 3°c, with 16kw.
Thanks to explain us, at 16%, it will be better to travel a bit to the next charger, with heating up battery.
For battery heat up, 1H for 5°c seems to be honest for LFP 55.
For 50kw regeneration, is there supercapacitor in tesla model 3 to temporary store energy before go back to battery? I knwo tesla bought maxwell supercap, but don't know what they do with it.
Regen only charges for some seconds.
In some situations 2.5KW Battery heating power is not enough, more would be preferable.
How much does Ioniq 5 have?
Model 3 also uses heat pump to heat up battery. Effective heating power might be close to 4-5 kW.
0:17 I don't understand why you suggest that charging up a cold vehicle would be wrong, Bjørn. For many people this is the only way to use an EV.
And this use case should be better supported.
No, you misunderstood. You should charge the car the evening before when the battery is warm. Or just slow charge it.
Kids do not try this at Home, this is for científic purpose only!
What means the « bil » and the « jul » from Marcusbil/Marcusjul?
@@geraldh.8047 thanks a lot. I suspected that it was car-related words 😆
If you precondition via mobile app (lets say you set 25C inside like 30 mins before you wanna go), will it also preheat the battery?
Yes
@@bjornnyland Can u measure, how long does it take to preheat battery to useable temps after cold night outside (lets says few degrees below zero)?
As I understand it restricting regen is to protect the battery against charging at too low a temperature. Could it be that the regen is being used for battery heating rather than charging?
Nothing can beat a Volvo with a diesel engine and engine and cabin warming system running on car's battery and burning half a liter per hour with timing function and app control from your phone...
What is the App you use on your phone. it looks great.
It's in the description of the video, 'ScanMyTesla'.
@@RandyTWester OMG yes you’re right. sorry i was distracted by work and didn’t look closely. thank you ;)
So the Model 3 also cold gates then. Seems to happen with many EVs.
Not really. As I mentioned in this video many times, this is a *constructed* case. As long as you do what you're supposed to do (plug in, ABC, navigate to supercharger, etc), the car will *not* coldgate.
@timemachine_194 all of this is pretty easily solved:- move to Australia, my LFP Model 3 has been great!
@@adamtm82 nah, Australia is poisonous spiders and snakes. I hate both.
and in case you are going to a different charger simply pretend that you are going to a supercharger instead 10-15 minutes before arriving. Most people will start their drive from home with a full battery anyway, so they will have a nice warm battery whenever they do actually charge. Good to see it perform pretty well at the supercharger.
@@bjornnyland Yes, but it shows that this preheating is necessary to get decent charging speeds in cold weather. Other EV makers should also include preheating options both through navigating to a fast charger, but also by just pressing a button or selecting it on the infotainment. Cold gating is such a common phenomena, I'm puzzled why this isn't addressed by many EV makers.
When u drove all the way to the charger. Did u use the friction brakes at all?
No need to.
Generating heat with "Jo-Jo" driving (when save to do in traffic) will heat up the battery as well.
@@autosundspiele1602 It's just not much you get that way
i really dont get why the "afterburner" (i like that name XD) is only pulling 2,5 kW
is the rear motor of the SR+ really that much less powerful than the rear motor from the long range variants ?
(iirc LR's pull up to 7 kW because 3,5 kW from both motors)
I was wondering how much of a difference just having one motor versus two was In terms of speed to heat up the battery and this answers that question plus brings up a good point of why isn't it doing 3.5 if that's the case. On his display it showed that the battery inlet was 24c with 10 L per minute. When you have 7kW for both motors I wonder what the temperature and flow rate was.
@@BenBrand byorn should have some Videos of cold weather conditions with his performance model where you can see it, but that will take some time and luck finding it
i don’t understand, the Model 3 now have a heat pump.
@@_TrueDesire_ It does, but it's not powerful enough to heat the battery quickly, for that it makes waste heat in the motors and moves it to the battery
What app are you using?
Scan My Tesla
Now try Canada cold weather -20 degrees. 0 degrees isn't that cold...
I wonder why it takes so long to heat up the battery. With so much Power going in and the heat pump adding to that...I feel like the pack should warm up quicker...but I guess heating a 500kg slab of metal takes time...🤷♂️
yes
I thought Teslas charged fast, but the lfp M3 is not impressive.
So what does a curbside parker do ?
The battery will allways be cold !
Charge in time. Not a problem if you use the car correctly. This video was an example of how to *not* do it correctly.
@@bjornnyland
I know, but I usally drive 5-15 km a day, that is no problem whatsoever with my Prius, but with an EV I guess the battery will never be warm enough, especially in Winter, to properly charge or am I wrong ?
The next Supercharger is about 40 km away, but I have a Fastned charger more or less right arround the corner.
Unfortunately Fastned has raised their prices up to 69 cent a kwh and are now only 10 cent away from the rediculous Ionic prices !
The next problem is, your are not supposed to cast charge the car constantly as I understand it.
0 degrees is not cold. I was expected talking about -20 or less
Pro tips. Ev driver Please watch this video.
Is it RWD? Not AWD?
SR is RWD :)
I have my model 3 LFP and I am living in Vestfold. I usually charge the car when it goes down to 20% to 30%(every 3 to 4 days). Shall I leave it for charging every day and get 100% battery every morning instead?
Don't deep discharge so much if you can plug in every day, do so... You want to hover around 50-80% normal use and charge it to 100% once every 2 weeks.
@@Jjengering exactly this is the right thing.
@@Jjengering Good to know! But I heard that there should be no problem to charge the LFP battery to 100% frequently. Maybe ues the range between 50% to 100% is better? for me this means that the car is to be charged to 100% every 2 days.
@@summerice1985 They say LFP is ok to charge to 100% only because it has more cycles before it degrades... so if you charge to 100% you will still hurt the battery, it's just It has more cycles so you won't notice it as fast. If you want to look after your battery, charging to 100% all the time even with LFP is still not the best practise. The only reason I say charge to 100% every 2 weeks is to help keep the battery management system calibrated properly.
Don't deep discharge to 20%... As I said keep it between 50-80 during normal use and top up to 100 every so often to calibrate the battery.
@@Jjengering is 20% considered deep discharge for lithium batteries? The only issue with lower state of charge is the higher internal resistance, right? What else is wrong with lower state of charge?
So this is Tesla coldgating, as you always mention this term for other cars.
Nope. I clearly said this is a constructed case. Use the car correctly and it won't coldgate.
@@bjornnyland I don't get it, it is not "corectly" to go to change when you are having an "empty" battery? If you arrive home and need the car, but the battery is getting empty, you should not go to a charger?
It's not a constructed case, it's just the reality of people who live in apartments without a permanent charger.
Even if you don't have a charging option, you should still not end up with low SoC like this. If you're a clumsy owner on the other hand...
they should just make a button to manually preheat. get on it elon...
what about model 3 ling range and model y lr range test in cold?
ua-cam.com/video/RHAZQfiLLm0/v-deo.html
i thought the heat pump supposed to warm the battery?
Heat pump is also heating up the battery.
@@bjornnyland thanks! so heat pump cant keep up. but then, at a charger, using electric heater is not a bad design/engineering. weird it is not here.
Do it again for -10*C please
Not that cold yet. Wait until January.
LFP is not recommended for cold climates such as Norway then?
Not a problem. Remember that this was a *constructed* case. As long as you do things correctly, using LFP in Norway is not a problem at all.
But what if you had to choose, would you still pick LFP? I hear they can survive more cycles but it's still scary to choose LFP over lithium which is tried & tested.
@@Alekpowah LFP is also a Lithium-Ion-Battery. ;)
Try -20C!
Not that cold yet. Wait until January.
I don't own an ev, it looks to me 20kwh is really slow? Looks like buying model 3 now with LFP battery will be very bad choice
It's 20 kW, not 20 kWh. And this was a constructed worst case. For normal case, you will get 100-140 kW.
Third
This doesn't qualify as a cold test at above zero. Leave it unplugged and sitting for a dozen hours over night at -20
It's not that cold yet. I could wait until January next year. But lots of people requested me to test this. So this test is still good and valid.
If its -20C and the car with a LFP battery is sitting for 8 hours out side will the car heat the cabin reasonability after turning on and driving?