FLOCK AUDIO PATCH: IS IT WORTH IT? 🤔
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2021
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In this video producer, mix and mastering engineer David Gnozzi shows how he uses the FLOCK AUDIO PATCH LT in his system.
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Thank you David, was curious about the Flock patch and you helped me make up my mind with this video.
You always show the coolest stuff, really appriciate it 🙏
I have one of the first units released... It has made home studio life more covenient. Saving pre-sets is a helpul feature.
Man this look slick... How the shit did i not know this was a thing.... thanks man for the video!!
Man ! Thank you for the video. I can’t wait to have come to Georgia.
As a hobby user I am happy with the Patch….would recommend to anyone… cheers
Luxury, but also quite essential… for me it’s a must piece for an analog setup.
I wish it was cheaper… but no one else has this same functionality.
Having phantom power with safeguarding also.
It’s a analog studio centre hub.
There’s something I trust a little bit more about signal integrity with digitally controlled connections, probably in my imagination.
I would almost feel like the 192 point would be a good investment for a studio that has it in mind to keep expanding.
£10,000 on the main central hub for years to come with so much versatility.
The normal one is the most I will inspire to.
Great product, I’m completely sold on it.
For tracking it would be such a dream for auditioning microphones, or anything.
If you had the 192 patch point model you could be so creative on the fly and making new sounds daily.
Hook up re-amp, amps, speakers, all sorts of sound effects, synths etc etc and be able to test mental ideas without the fear of wasting too much time..
Then recall it at any time.
The recall also… imagine a complex route with a patch bay… imagine how long it takes to note that configuration then put it all back at a later point to even remember what you were doing 😂.
Software is getting better and more like analog slowly and analog is also gaining the functionality of digital slowly…
Each side giving healthy competition to each other.
Sneak peek Track sounds so good man 🔥
Thank you so much for your presentation 🤝
This is the ONLY patch bay I'd ever get. Can't stand the mess of cables on regular ones. This Flock patch bay is a dream.
My dear friend this is an amazing tool, I must buy it, i’m so tired connected and disconnecting cables, thanks for recommend us this patchbay
Best, from Miami
Thanks!
Nice overview. That was definitely a market opportunity that flock seized. For me? Not yet, I'm itb; maybe someday.... ☺️
Reporting back, top 3 best things I've ever bought, expensive but still worth it. Just don't buy it if you don't have much hardware. My workflow is 100 times faster and I use my gear more now. Thanks again
Hi David, in the Flock setup you can link the in-out of a unit (for instance the Fatso) together making it one block in your Flock pannel.
Yes 👍
I was proper interested in this when it first came out, must definitely look into it again, thanks for sharing, I take it that u have to send your convertor I/Os to the Flock and the individual gear or chain of gear to other I/Os on the Flock as well?
Yes, I/O's on one bay and outboard in the other, just like a cable patch
Great! How is the sound quality compared to hi end patchbays with mogami cables?
This IS a high end patchbay :D if there's even such thing
Killer!
That set up is waaaaay over my head! 😳 ......but i get how it will make your life SO much easier! 😏👍.
Digital patching has come a long long ways since the BNC patch bays I used to put together back in the 90s 💁♂️🤷♂️
Thank you for the presentation !
I have tried to find “ quality on line “ information regarding signals test data and analysis: Crosstalk , distortion, bw response, noise - Rf, intermodulation interferes, analog signal levels and stability both per 1 modeled chain and also when “Full Engages”.
Did you made signals testing since you integrated it in you Mix / Mastering chains ?
If so:
How does the measuring adds up ?
Thank you very much, be blessed.
Strangely I can’t find any analytical data or Hands On type of review/ PR publication About Flock / CB Electronic digitally controlled Patchbays regarding one (maybe couple...) the critical aspect (s) - how does it’s “Sounds” :)
You see, properly maintained cable base patchbay have very little up to scientifically proven No Additives, especially when using high quality Line/Mic cabling and implementing Differential Line amp in the critical junctions.
An Active Device, and especially multiple channels one will by it’s electronic/ acoustic rules of physics create / add measurable addictive / s. Sometimes it’s will be in the audiobale (hearble) something it’s in the non audioble registers.
Now, it’s for Modern Pushing (Mixing) , it’s for modern Uber Pushing (Mastering) and no one can have any analytical/technical information regarding Crrostalk, ifr,imr,cmmr, distortions...
The basics ;)
A wild one - does it (Flock) sounds a bit like 4/6 k ssl summing busses when being Pushed- like SPL High End summer ;)
Be blessed, have measurable quality signals in your environments !
Awesome
Wow ! Impressive David. I didn't understood everything, but it sure looks cool. But I have to admit that I hate you ! Are you getting a new fabulous unit ? I'm jealous, even if I don't know what it is. I'm confident that it will be at the same level as your other units...bravo David and thank you again for your videos, they help people like me who are willing to progress. Bless you...
Woooow . . .
Quick question now do you gotto adjust settings in the motu to link with the patch flock audio. Plus would it be good to get just that than the 16a plus when you connect the 16a with the ES did it made a sound different.
I had this in my cart waiting for your review lol, you didn't mention the noise from the fan, guess its quiet ? so many complain, but was waiting for your review,
There are a few modes for the fan. Noise is not an issue
@@ezstproductions_ Oh wicked...thx
I haven't notice any noise from the fan, I've already did 10 masters/sessions with it
@@mixbustv Thanks my man appreciate the reply .I'm gonna grab it this week...
Hi Dave, not sure if you'll see this but I have a question. how many units were you able to set up with the LT since you are doing mixing and mastering? My situation is a little different as I am doing tracking and mixing and eventually will be doing some mastering down the line.... I was thinking that there was no way I can have my gear in the LT version not enough I/O but I see you have more gear than I do and you were able to do both mixing and mastering.
I got the bigger one lol literally a week after getting the LT because it's that amazing. Changed the game. I still can't put everything I have of course but I also don't need everything on the patch because I have a ton of I/Os. So with some thought out daisy chaining and the bigger one I'm in routing heaven
Saw Flock when they came out and my ears perked up to such a great product. Only Downside is the price which is understandable. But for $1600 for a 32p vs $1200 for a standard 96pt is quite a different $ per port. I am surprised you made a 32pt work. You have a ton of gear.
I was able to do so because I have so many I/O's so I never have to do any routing when mixing, I basically just used this to make my mastering chain more flexible and incorporate few units that would have been wrongly relegated to mixing only, that's why, it was a very good fit for me
I love my Flock Patch - together with the Dangerous Liaison it’s an amazing addition to a hybrid workflow 😎
Hello, your feedback interested me, I'm very bad with connections because I don't have a logical mind. I have the Liaison since 2 months ago and I love it, I put all my gear on it but in serial mode since there are only 6 inserts. I go out from the interface (16 outs) in the Dangerous 2 Bus+.My problem is that having inserted the Liaison on the Dangerous 2Bus+ in insert, I can only use my gear on the mix bus, so two channels. I cannot use let's say one compressor on a particular buss since all of them go the the 2Bus+. So the solution might be the Flock Patch, I've found one in second hand and will get it soon, but I wouldn't know how to patch all of this. I'm curious to know how you connected the Liaison with the Flock Patch. Thank you
Have you got ur Hands on the SSL UV 500 series eq? If so what do you think of it. I was thinking of getting that with the Prometheus you got.
I didn't but I assume is the extended version of the violet eq on the fusion, which is pretty darn awesome, it would definitely me a good combo with the Prom
@@mixbustv I always watch your vids fam. Just subscribed. Keep up the amazing content full of musical wisdom
I’m sure it’s vastly more convenient for recall etc….my question though is…is it actually QUICKER to use initially than a regular patch bay? Meaning can i just plug and keep moving while I’m mixing like i already do..or is it a bunch of click click click to get where I’m trying to go
Did you watch the video? lol First, yes clicks are faster than patching cables, I don't know if you ever had to patch 10 or 20 units and hope you didn't plug something into the wrong channel but I can promise you is about 10 times faster. Even disregarding that, you can save presets. Presets. Think about it
If u think about it its like an actuall Daw but not with the VSTs but with real hardware units. And it looks super appealing to me with only 3 units to repatch if i wanna change somethin... but on his scale... if loading a preset saves him 10-15 minutes of work Its a time saver business wise. And revisiting an old mix/master is a click away instead of writing down and patching the signal chain.
I can bet that he was happy and smiling as a little kid when he got it set up and running,i know i certainly would :)
Do you also use it for parallel processing? Looks very easy to split a signal in the flock and process it seperately and route this second path to another Motu input and in your daw to a second track. No more parallel processing in your daw needed? So no latency issues etc.?
I don't do parallel processing via Flock, I have parallel onboard on many of the compressors
Im looking forward to owning analog.
That mix sounds great man... Do I hear the SpaceCraft on there?
Yep
Hi David, is there any compromise/degradation of the sound compared to a high quality patch bay? Thanks for your help!
Nope
@@mixbustv I appreciate you :)
Hi! How do you deal with latency? When you create different signal chains, isn't there even a 'sample' shift? I combined 2 different audio interfaces using adat connection and when mixing, there is a latency shift of up to 26 samples. Sometimes more...
I assume the question is not related to the Flock since analog has no latency so I guess this is referred to multiple interfaces (converters in my case) instead. Every DAW has delay compensation, you don't deal with it because it's compensated. Watch my videos on how to set up hardware delay compensation on Pro Tools (if you're using that) and I also assume you're using a master clock to sync your multiple interfaces
What's main difference between FLOCK AUDIO PATCH and CBELECTRONICS XPATCH-64, without talking mic and phantom alim. (the XPATCH-64 haven't one) ?
I’ve got 6x 96 point patchBays in my studio. I’d LOVE to replace them for digital ones. Can I combine several flock units? How does that work?
Yes you can combine, it's very easy to do
Dude did you see the new bay they just released? 192 points 96x96 with 32 phantom powered. 10,000 usd. Two in and out dual xlr/trs in and out on front. If I were rich this would be in my rack no question.
Analogue signal patching controlled via software, this is amazing.
But noob question, what do i use to connect 1/4 jacks to the DB connector of the Flock ?
imp.i114863.net/5bjXk1
@@mixbustv oh i love you man, thank you !
does it convert AD/DA everytime it goes back in? I struggle to understand how it works inside. How it routes from one input to another output without doing the convertion in between every piece of gear.
If it converted every time it would be the most useless piece of gear on the planet 😄 no, it's just a patchbay, nothing converts, it switches the analog signals from one point to another, in the analog domain, just like a normal patch but without the need of cables nor you manually patching them
Hi David! I got Motu 8Pre es and using Studio One, and I noticed problem with using External FX (Looptrotter Sa2Rate, Bettermaker C502V), so the signal that comes back have less Highest Frequency than signal before send. Same problem is when I connect strictly output with input(Without looptrotter of C502V). Problem disappears with Increasing Sample rate, but then My CPU is sweating like hell with 88100kHz. Can I do something about it? Maybe more powerful computer is the only solution? Cheers :)
have you done a null test?
You can't post links in the comments, but what I see in the pink noise is simply lower level which will fool you into thinking there's "less" of something. Level match perfectly original with the loop and you won't have the difference.
Hey, thx for the video. Could you also check out the one from cb electronics? Would that be possible? Cheers and thx for your work man
Tell them not me
@@mixbustv Hey man, allright, I just swallowed my proud and wrote to them whether it would be possible to send you a unit to do a video in which you test it.
Like how they raised the price 700 dollars in a matter of a few months. Major gouge. Unjustifiable increase. Launched at 1499, went to 1600, now 2200.
Unjustifiable? Mh.. worldwide shortage of chips, inflation at all times high, food, gas, electricity, basically everything almost double the price, and you're talking about one of the most revolutionary units in the past decade probably and you feel it's "unjustifiable"? 😄
@@mixbustv it's tough being a business owner. I run a cnc shop. (small, 2 million year revenue) My cost of everything keeps going up but my customers expect the same prices or they'll leave me in the dust. I bought a flock lt to give it a try. But being honest, that's still an artificial price increase. Everyone is using post covid b.s. As a crutch to justify their gouging. Either way, thanks for the video or I wouldn't have bothered paying that. It's kind of like my dangerous compressor. Paid 2799 for it, now it's 2999, reasonable, imo. Cheers
Why did you choose the 16 channel version? You have so many units to connect, did you choose just to include 16 channels In the flock or is there a way to get more out of it? I have units using in total 24 channels and i’d consider it a waste to not be able to use 8 channels of them. Am I not understanding something?
Unlike others, I don't use this to supply lack of physical I/O's, I have 40 analog channels, basically almost every unit has a dedicated I/O. The reason because I got the Floc, and the 16 was all I needed, is because I only use it for mastering, so I can incorporate in my mastering chain the few units that otherwise would have been left out (because routed for mixing purposes only). Simple
@@mixbustv so you already had a patchbay for all your other gear? Not sure i understand how you can now route the same unit to both your mix setup with the patchbay you already had and your (flock) master setup
So do you consider this ‘mastering grade’ quality, or simply it os cheap (compared to eg Dangerous Liaison or SPL Hermes, and good enough.
Could be wrong as I haven't used the Flock, but it seems you have a lot of the same functionality using RME's TotalMix. You could get a UFX+ with good convertors, 4 preamps + most of this functionality for just a little more. All depends on your current setup of course and the UFX+ would need expanded with some additional I/O to match up but you'll need your own convertors etc anyway + the patch. Also David, in case you missed it, your Flock tinyurl isn't hyperlinked. Thanks for the vid!
Ah just realised your hyperlink in the pinned post, my bad!
MOTU has the same, even better, matrix, but you can't do what I need to do here with the Flock for several reasons, one, you'd need your outboard disconnected from the interface, that alone makes it a no go.
@@mixbustv thanks for the reply! Hmmm not sure what you mean by disconnected. Each piece I have is individually connected permanently, either to the UFX+ or an auxiliary set of converters. In total mix I have different workspaces for tracking, mixing and mastering and within each, routing presets for my most used chains. The flock does look handy in that you can just shift the IO about in the chain instead of routing the IO individually but as I said, it’s dependant on your current workflow and the cost benefit of implementing it.
@@greenenoiseaudio Your outboard needs to be disconnected from your interface and connected to the flock instead, just like it's explained in the video, or you won't have the same versatility I have and you will have to do additional AD/DA trips otherwise which you can only avoid if you have the ability to route signal in and out the analog gear in the analog domain, if your gear is hooked to interfaces/converters, you have a trip everytime you insert something
@@greenenoiseaudio that means everything you have goes into digital into your RME. that is not what flock is, it is an analog patch bay. take care
Can you add multi Flocks(8 or 16 Dsubs) into the same system?
There's a 32ch version (which O have now) and a 192 ch version, but if you want, yes you can stack em
@@mixbustv I got two 32 and want to link to the same system but salesman is saying that does not work properly, thats my concern !
You have to sacrifice some I/O to connect multiple units - but it works. I use a dsub in/out on each to connect them together. That way can route 8 ch back and worth. 2x32x32 then gives you a grand total of 48 usable for outboard and tracking. Not ideal, bur cheaper than upgrading to the biggest unit. But I can see ending up on an XT in a few years time.
is there happen any AD/DA conversion in there ?
Of course not, it's a patchbay, why would there be any conversion?
I have a bunch of synths but only one effects box, is this worth it?
I'm not sure this would be the piece for that. Sounds more like you need a mixer
@@mixbustv Thanks
Oh Protocols wants you to have the gear twice or reconnect it?
you go back in the same I/O's you come out, and vice versa
Anyone considering these units…. Don’t forget to also budget for cables. 8x quality DSub will run another grand at least.
Sell your cables patch bays and cables, you're making it back
@@mixbustv not if you never had a Patchbay with cables in the first place. And if prices on reverb are anything to go by you’d be lucky to get 5c on the $ for the old cables and dumb Patchbays. Not a big deal. These are assets and investments that can be written down and save time. Just something to note when budgeting. Far cheaper than paying an assistant to do the work ha ha.
I would love to have one, but the price is ridiculous for digitally controlled routing... C'mon Behringer...you can produce this for far less... Make it happen... Lol...
If you want crossfeed betweeb channel, noise floor to the point where you can't use it, $hit falling apart after 2 months sure you can produce it for less. You can do everything for less, and you get what you pay for
Doesn’t it affect the AD conversion?
Of course not, it's an analog patchbay, digitally controlled, how would it?
In Studio One you dont have restrictions
It's not a restriction, PT is a daw thought for large scale mixing and analog, routing that way takes away the guess work of what's where, people working in the box or on small rigs don't really understand what a mess would be otherwise
With more and more digitally controlled analog gear, it's only a matter of time until you can have an entirely analog studio that you control with your mouse. 😂
I still move knobs even with all the digitally controlled hw, the point of that is more recalls of course than not using knobs, but it also depends on the studio layout, I'm lucky to have everything at arm length, and a very wide sweet spot, but some studios have analog gear 6 feet away lol
@@mixbustv Yeah, it was a joke since most (all?) analog mixers say they hate mixing with a mouse. 😉
This joke can be taken a step further, as you can use a control surface with knobs/buttons to virtually control knobs/buttons on your analog gear. 🤯
i'm gonna stick with cables for the time being - that thing is not cheep
$1600 & $2500 is not that expensive
They’ve gone up in price a LOT. Now 2200 and 3500 respectively!