After getting cut, get your pokemon weak and faint so you teleport back to the Pokecenter. Alternatively, pokemon stadium allowed you to remove HM moves and after beating it you can teteach a forgotten move.
@@TheMoogleKing93 mew's obviously in the truck. not only can it learn every tm and hm in the game, it learns metronome without tm. since it so readily has every move at its disposal, only makes sense that it can also make other mons fuck with their own movesets. confirmed.
The reason Koga's gym has Psychic type wielding jugglers and Sabrina's gym has Poison type wielding Channelers is based on theming and world building leading to game mechanical oversights: Koga is a ninja, so ninja-themed trainers should be in there. Ninjas use throwing weapons as a distraction tactic to escape pursuit, jugglers throw balls and other objects around to entertain people and gain their attention. The Juggler Pokemon trainer class use Psychic type Pokemon to juggle their Pokeballs, so Koga's gym has guys using Psychic type all over. Sabrina is a psychic. Psychic powers are spiritual in nature. Channelers are trying to channel spirits, in this case the Gastly line as those are the only ghosts in Gen 1. Gastly, Haunter, and Gengar however are part Poison type, making them weak to Psychic attacks. Sabrina's gym being full of trainers with a weakness to her type at least makes sense as a boss. Koga's gym should've been full of Fighting type specialists instead!
Wow i wish youtube didnt force me to see the top comment when i watch the vids. I dont click on comments cause i dont want spoilers. Tl;dr SPOILER ALERT
The reason the second juggler in Koga's gym's Drowzee has Psychic while the Hypno does not, is that Drowzee learns Psychic at level 34 while Hypno doesn't learn it until level 37. Both of his Pokemon are at level 34. And evidently, the devs did not feel the need to manually add Psychic to the Hypno's moveset.
@@lambtoken2708 afaik, the changes are very minimal, like some trainers don't bug themselves using good ai (lorelei for example) but there are still a good chunk of problems
Not really hidden. We all know it’s good. It’s just not AS good as King. And that’s why. It’s like comparing Fearow to Dodrio. Dodrio is better in every way. But that doesn’t make Fearow bad. But 10/10 would chose Dodrio in a fight. Same here.
there is a category called Nidoqueen% which is just a bit slower than the normal Any% iirc (Is slower because the attack stat give ranges where you are able to not kill the pokemon, making it unreliable in the speedrun, just that)
My man Scott going from being a PokeTuber to being a Lord... * snif * Brings a tear to my eye. No, but seriously, it's really great to see how far you've come, dude! I feel like I bring this up every 5 episodes or so, but your videos just keep getting better and better! You and your team deserve all the credit! Oh, and congrats on the sponser!
I watched the first episode of pokemon (subtitles, dunno if they changed any of this in the dub) but I saw something I immediately had to relay to you: Ash is watching TV in the beginning, and a trainer resembling Bruno (same hair, same pants, same build, also shirtless, you don't see much besides a silhouette because it's dark) has Nidorino out against Gengar, gets hit by Hypnosis, switches to Onix, then uses... Tackle. Against a ghost. Even without the type matchup, he's carrying a move that starter pokemon get. It just felt incredibly in-character for the hiker himself.
Hey man, thanks for this new video c: Like you, I have severe ADHD. Having your videos in the background helps me get mundane tasks done. Thank you. Also, as per usual, bug love!! cc:
It's kind of hilarious that Koga's fans are mostly jugglers. Like, even blackbelts trying to learn from a ninja would make some sense, or gamblers learning the art of deception. But you have an animal tamer and a bunch of jugglers. It's like a circus.
Love the return of Scott’s vs videos! I got Nidoking in this one. I preferred Nidoqueen’s defense in Blue as a kid, but the king reached icon status for a reason. Nidoqueen will surprise with how well she does though!
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon The ONLY ISSUE I have is Professor OAK should have been a requirement to DEFEAT to get into cerulean cave He should have been given a key like Blaines gym
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon If you’re looking for a Gen 2 vs video, Royal Rumble. Kingdra vs Slowking. Both royal titles and both require a special evolution. Should be comparable. :)
This was such a blast to watch. It's amazing how close the two were, and congrats on zero resets! I definitely wasn't expecting these results, though I am not surprised by them! After all, their Poison typing definitely lets them down a lot more than it helps them due to being weak to Psychic (which means Koga and Sabrina might be a roadblock). This feels a lot similar to Pokemon like Aerodactyl, Omastar, and Kabutops which have no good Rock type move and, in the fossil Pokemon's case, are quad weak to the Oddish trainer. I guess it's part of the charm of Gen 1, but not all types were created equally. At least they were also part ground, and while Nidoqueen did pretty well, Nidoking was able to better capitalize on it thanks to having better attack and speed. And because they have identical special stats, it isn't like Nidoqueen would end up being a better special attacker, either, so I'm not surprised who came out on top either. Poison types that do well really only do so despite being Poison type and not because of it, like having its second typing be really good offensively (like Nidoking's and Nidoqueen's Ground typing) or having really, really good stats (like Gengar's 110 speed and 130 special), as well as access to a wide array of hard-hitting coverage moves like Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Psychic (in Gengar's case), Bubblebeam, etc. And if Surf was able to be replaced, I think the Nidos would have done even better, especially against Giovanni.
it's amazing how much you continue to innovate with the displays and other features on the production side, not to even mention how far you've come with gameplay and strategy, truly brilliant!
I totally didn’t expect to see The Queen to beat King in the first play-through! This was sooo close they are both so good but the King’s attack power was the difference along with some luck for both lol! Great job Scott, this was a great run and i truly appreciate you doing a third run because the tie breaker was needed 💯
Second playthrough results are also incredible. The fact that Nidoking isn't even winning by a full minute is just amazing. Never underestimate a queen I guess.
Yup, agreed. When people first asked for this video I was like, “no… Nidoking is obviously better.” Glad I eventually made it to see just how close the results really were.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon imagine if Blaine used the super potion on Arcanine vs nidoking That actually would have been optimal to force you to high roll Arcanine due to burn
Nidoqueen winning would be rather interesting. If only because Nidoking has the stats that are typically more suitable for solo challenge runs, and Thrash is pretty effective way to save time and pp. But Nidoqueen being more defensive leaning might actually help with the Elite Four and the champion.
My favorite non-comedic part of your videos is the optimizations. During the first playthrough I was like "why aren't you teaching nidoking an ice nice for Giovanni?!?!" And was then very pleased to see this fixed in the second playthrough. Your videos are absolutely incredible.
Another great video, Scott! My first few playthroughs of Yellow as a kid, I had both Nidoking and Nidoqueen in my team, (Because what kid understands teambuilding? lol) so I used them both alot, and was always impressed with their number of great TMs they get access to. They often carried my teams. Especially since I was too stubborn to replace the frail Pikachu. So when I got the notification for this video, I had to check it out. Although I rarely use either of them anymore in most games, this was a nice bit of nostalgia seeing them used so heavily, but I guess you proved that despite how much I prefer Nidoqueen, that Nidoking is superior. It must have been a ton of work, like all vs videos you do must be, so I want you to know that we all really appreciate the content, and I look forward to the next one!
Both nidos are amazing in gen 1, and they are both good in the early game for remakes as well. And the third playthough is kind proving that point. 😊 I really like how you perfectly plan the routing for each pokemon, and I have learnt a lot this time. 😊So thanks for that. Having a basic knowledge abot the damage rounding tharsh holds, kind of made the mid game pretty consistent, which most pokemon can't really maintain that momentum, even after intense routing, which kind of made both nido really stand out. Before watching that video I was so sure that nidoqueen will take the lead because of her defensive stats and because of her early access to body slam. So I'm kind of surprised. 😊 By the way, that oak fight was pretty brutal, with exeggutor being really trolly with hypnosis. That is always such a salty way to lose. 😂 Keep the good work! 😉
This video felt like a sports event. During the first playthrough I was yelling "LuckQueen" and complaining how bias the commentators were but the second and the final playthroughs got me saying "no, this was all fair, better match next time!". In all honestly, even if I grew up with Blue/Red, I never noticed they were _that_ similar to each other, and even if the breeding group is still strange, GF has made well enough changes to make them feel different enough. I also liked the encounter rule for the follow-up playthrough. It makes a lot of sense and I'm looking forward to how it affects upcoming videos!
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I've noticed that earlier but now, when it was my favorite Pokémons with clear favorite out of those, it hit the fan bone heavily! Also biased comments during the first playthrough help to build the trash thoughts and in the end, you wrap things up clearly and as objectively as it's possible. Keep up the great content!
Great run, thanks for sharing this versus with us! Nonetheless, I do feel that this one really showcases the need for multiple runs to have a more accurate perception about the Pokémon performance because I felt that you really took advantage of what you learnt from King to slightly tweak the moveset towards efficiency with Queen, and that's the only (objective, barring luck) reason why the first run was so good for the latter. In the end, having such minor stat differences and almost identical movesets then it was kind of expected that the race would be extremely close! Best regards 😊 Edit: At the Oak's fight you could've mimicked Sleep Powder from the Venusaur instead 😅 Also, with your routing it's pretty tempting to attempt an "Itemless" Speedrun with Nidoking! Yeah, it would clock in almost a full hour behind WR and considering that it would need to be submitted into the "Glitchless Classic" category then it means it also should have to deal with the Surge's Gym puzzle, but that's something I would love to run using original hardware just for flavour! Thanks again for this great video!
these 2 are my absolute favourites, especially Nidoking and am so glad you made them into a VS plus they both solid S tier, love it. I wonder how the middle evolution Nidos are gonna go, I got my money on Nidorina for that. looking forward to your next vid, got a bad feeling about the fire types you got coming, fire types are a real pain in Gen 1, I literally only ever use Charizard and Flareon (Flareon my fave Eeveelution please make him awesome)
Hey Scott, itd be so cool if you came up with cute thematic nicknames for all the notable npc trainers, Like Sandy for the the Jr Trainer with the Sand- attacking pidgeys, maybe nicki or Cardi for th wrapping Lass, sure itd be a little confusing for new viewers but us golden oldies would have a great chuckle, still loving all of your content man and love watching your career gain more and more traction, keep up the good work!
I always used thrash when I was sure the fight could be won with no confusion taking its toll. Of course in generations to follow a berry being held would reverse this problem. On a side note, Scott if you haven't played pokemon team rocket edition (a very fun romhack of Fire red) I recommend you try it. It has easily one of the most unique stories in a romhack I've played.
This was way closer than expected! I wonder how these two would fair in FRLG where Nidoking gets 10 more special attack and Nidoqueen gets 10 more special defense. Quick side note: It is probably more semantically accurate to refer to it as "damage truncating," because rounding would change which levels were thresholds. I have cursed at too many stats problems to remain silent on this. However, "damage truncating" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
@@tsawy6 within the context of the program, they are separate functions. In python, there’s a specific function for truncating called trunc(), and one for rounding called round(). Since the floating numbers always round down, that would be the result of truncating via a trunc() function. No idea about Assembly, which is what RBY were written in though, but I have heard it is incredibly frustrating to deal with floating integers in it, hence the constant truncation. Like I said, it’s VERY semantic and nerdy, but I will die on this molehill lol
@@wilhelmisaac I mean, my strong assumption is that the trailing bits just get dropped when you're storing as an integer (which is fairly common even now). But to claim that rounding down should only be called truncation because one programming language (even many programming languages) use that terminology for it is absurd. Rounding down is a thing outside of programming, and it's absolutely, strictly, categorically correct to call this process rounding. It would also be correct to call it truncation, but you can't say it's incorrect.
@@tsawy6 if you’re using the umbrella term for rounding, sure, but that encompasses over twenty different types of rounding. What type of rounding does Pokémon use? Monte Carlo arithmetic rounding? Scaled rounding? Rounding to a specified multiple? If we are debating strictly on the basis of semantics, then we have to discuss the language holistically. English is a low-context, high accuracy language wherein the linguistic culture tends towards specificity and detail. Thus while it may be linguistically accurate to call it rounding, it is incorrect in terms of linguistic fluency. Rounding within English nomenclature is assumed to mean rounding up/down. English specifically differentiates truncations because of this. It varies from the common assumption and thus the distribution must be made, as per the rules of the language, the definition of the terms in question, and the context in which the language and terms are currently operating. I can (and most like will) die on this teeny tiny molehill, but hey we all gotta stand for something
@@wilhelmisaac I would strongly disagree with the claim that the linguistic culture tends towards specificity and detail in all things, and I say this as a mathematician. I would claim that english is /flexible/ and that there are contexts in which people need specificity and other contexts where breadth is acceptable. Whilst, yes, the standard meaning of rounding is 'nearest unit', calling using another meaning incorrect in terms of linguistic fluency seems absurd, especially given that the term damage truncation is longer, bulkier, and more confusing for the average person (yes we're all nerds here, but not necessarily /math/ nerds!). Just because something could be expressed more precisely does not mean it has to, or even should be. Hell, even truncation could be specified. Is it truncated to the nearest unit, 10s, or one decimal place?
I just purchased some land for my mum and stepdad as a Christmas present and now they are now lord and lady such an awesome Christmas present idea thanks very much i also used your discount code appreciate and keep up the good work dude !
Hi ya Scott, watching these videos has been one of my favorite things to do this year. Having grow up in the 90s with pokemon yellow i relate so much with your stories i love watching every video you post. Your videos bring me so much joy and i just wanted to say thank you. It's been a pleasure watching your channel grow and i hope to see it only get bigger and better.
I love these videos, been re-watching ur old vs videos, ur videos are improving so much. Also it will be interesting to compare this to vanmans video while watching (commenting in the intro)
Mate, I get it, you're putting so much effort into your videos and thus definitely deserve to be repaid for that financially but please don't use obvious scams like this as sponsors. It's literally just selling people a very expensive piece of paper. I love your content either way but it does leave a bit of a bitter aftertaste if it's an obvious scam business. And yeah I get it, they say they're using the money to help but they're running a for-profit business, they're not out to help nature, it's greenwashing.
Glad to see my boy Nidoking rocking it. I have fond memories of playing Gen 1 as a kid and just beating the whole game with only Nidoking because I didn't know how to use anything else
58:23 Edit: 1:14:45 2nd Edit: I completed the video, and I happy that Nidoqueen gave Nidoking a run for his money. They are both solid choices I slept on when I first played Gen 1 games.
Called it. The Nidoroyality are extremely similar, both extremely new player friendly. Kidoking is slightly harder, but a bit better, while Nidoqueen is slightly more forgiving. The differences between the two are so minor that things that normally wouldn't matter truly make all the difference in a race between the two. Still, with a time as close as they got, we can all agree, the Nidoroyality are really strong.
Did you know that you can evolve Pikachu with Growlithe in Red and Blue? I just learned this today and it blew my mind. I guess Growlithe shares code with Thunderstones. I wonder if there's anything we don't know about the games by now
That mid game move set for Nidoqueen is such a quintessential “nido-move set”: Body Slam, Earthquake, Thunderbolt, Ice beam. They are such great Pokemon with so much coverage potential and versatility!
Man I was rooting for Nidoqueen. Oh well she got close. Also out of respect its been a while since I asked this, but where are the John Starters? Meganuim, Typphlosion and Feraligator need their day man! Oh well. Love your videos, as always. And I'm doing a play through of Pokemon Yellow right now and all your tips really help out. Keep up the good work and cant wait for the next video!
Sometimes watching these makes me wanna do the challenges myself but something as well is to try them all in later gens like Gen 4 in DP or Platinum or gen 5 where it’s difficult but long, it would be such a pain to go through some of them in all the Pokémon
21:37 actually, considering the "It's super effective!" text (and the "Hit X amount of times" text, if it were to pop up like it would in later Gens), going for Body Slam when you're guaranteed the KO is faster, so good play on that ;).
I always had a Nido in Pokémon yellow because the grass below Brock added them and they all learn double kick early. I think this was a balance change knowing that you were locked in getting Pikachu. I am amazed at these results because I never noticed how awful gen 1 movesets can be
Yeah Queen just doesn't have the damage output to stay consistent like King. Offense is nearly always better than defence in Pokémon games (except Gen 2 Curse, Rest, Sleep Talk, Return/EQ), and that means that King was always destined to win. Really great runs. It's pretty amazing to see how far you've come in a year.
Honestly I feel like any mon that gets Earthquake and Ice beam with decent mixed attacking sets is going to perform pretty well in the mid-late game. the combination is incredibly good at hitting a large range of mons, with Ice beam covering grass and flying types, only bug types would resist ground but most bugs in gen 1 are poison as well. that plus EQ being one of the best physical moves and in this case stab on top of it is just the making of an amazing mon. Thunderbolt rounds things out nicely with covering flying-water as well. there's a reason even in modern gen's for why electric and ice are seen as some of the best coverage typings, they seem to hit a lot of mons for 4x dmg.
Nidoking and Nidoqueen are still amazing mons due to insane coverage and well-rounded stats. You don't necessarily spam horn drill, you also want to use other options, most notably STAB earthquake and boltbeam, as well as bubblebeam and thrash/body slam on the early and midgame and being incredibly OP stat-wise early on.
The Nidos (i.e., Nidoking and Nidoqueen) are some of my favorite Generation 1 Pokemon. Overall, I suspect Nidoking will win the race due to having a higher base attack and speed, which is favorable for a solo run. Then again, I could be wrong, as, with some creative decisions with moveset, Nidoqueen might actually win
Scott did you see the final part of the Ash vs Leon battle? If not I hope you will be happy to know that Ash’s Butterfree made an appearance in the episode! Great to have him back at least for a cameo
37:30 The reason drowzee has psychic and the hypno does not is because generally the trainers just have the most recent 4 level up moves, and because pre-evolved pokemon tend to learn moves earlier. In this case drowzee gets psychic at level 32 and hypno gets it at 37, and they were both at lvl 34.
Are you planning any Scarlet/Violet content? I know it would be out of your normal video style but seeing your commentary/quips on something brand new would be super cool! BTW love the versus videos and your commentary, and the overlays have gotten so good I have a hard time watching other solo or speedrun pokemon content without it
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I wouldn't say new release content is necessarily trend-hopping, but I get what you are saying! I definitely think the videos where you get out of your comfort zone are my favorites, but I totally understand the amount of planning and effort that goes into producing an hour+ video like this, and diving into a new game would put strain on the process.
Also a thought on a new metric: the number of control inputs. It would take away any bias for text speed, move durations like wrap or toxic, and be as close to "frame perfect" comparison you could get between 'mons
You see, Surge's main mistake wasn't using thunderbolt, it was NOT aiming for the horn
Gotta aim for the horn
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon WHAT rhydon lived earthquake
And proceeded to dunk the king 👑
which one. Horns for days.
@@Sunaki1000all the horns
By some miracle I saw this comment at 27:37, few seconds after surge used thunderbolt 😂😂😂
32:30 There is a move deleter in Gen 1, you just can't find him because he's sleeping in the healing bed on the S.S. Anne
Omg this comment got me as I read it…
How devious of Game Freak to hide one of the most important NPCs in the game in the most obvious place.😆
Maybe the bed is in the truck?
After getting cut, get your pokemon weak and faint so you teleport back to the Pokecenter. Alternatively, pokemon stadium allowed you to remove HM moves and after beating it you can teteach a forgotten move.
@@TheMoogleKing93 mew's obviously in the truck. not only can it learn every tm and hm in the game, it learns metronome without tm. since it so readily has every move at its disposal, only makes sense that it can also make other mons fuck with their own movesets. confirmed.
The reason Koga's gym has Psychic type wielding jugglers and Sabrina's gym has Poison type wielding Channelers is based on theming and world building leading to game mechanical oversights:
Koga is a ninja, so ninja-themed trainers should be in there. Ninjas use throwing weapons as a distraction tactic to escape pursuit, jugglers throw balls and other objects around to entertain people and gain their attention. The Juggler Pokemon trainer class use Psychic type Pokemon to juggle their Pokeballs, so Koga's gym has guys using Psychic type all over.
Sabrina is a psychic. Psychic powers are spiritual in nature. Channelers are trying to channel spirits, in this case the Gastly line as those are the only ghosts in Gen 1. Gastly, Haunter, and Gengar however are part Poison type, making them weak to Psychic attacks.
Sabrina's gym being full of trainers with a weakness to her type at least makes sense as a boss. Koga's gym should've been full of Fighting type specialists instead!
That's what I'm talking about. That's why he's the MVP. That's why he's the Goat, the goat!
Baaaaaa
Wow i wish youtube didnt force me to see the top comment when i watch the vids. I dont click on comments cause i dont want spoilers.
Tl;dr SPOILER ALERT
The reason the second juggler in Koga's gym's Drowzee has Psychic while the Hypno does not, is that Drowzee learns Psychic at level 34 while Hypno doesn't learn it until level 37. Both of his Pokemon are at level 34. And evidently, the devs did not feel the need to manually add Psychic to the Hypno's moveset.
Wow that's so strange and random
Every single trainer in gen1 only have the level up moveset, they started tweaking that in gen2
@@SchumiJr. it's not really that random, but it's certainly strange
@@profchaos91 I thought they changed that in Yellow
@@lambtoken2708 afaik, the changes are very minimal, like some trainers don't bug themselves using good ai (lorelei for example) but there are still a good chunk of problems
The first playthrough results were amazing. Nidoqueen way more than just surprises. This queen is clearly an overlooked hidden gem.
Not really hidden. We all know it’s good. It’s just not AS good as King. And that’s why. It’s like comparing Fearow to Dodrio. Dodrio is better in every way. But that doesn’t make Fearow bad. But 10/10 would chose Dodrio in a fight. Same here.
there is a category called Nidoqueen% which is just a bit slower than the normal Any% iirc
(Is slower because the attack stat give ranges where you are able to not kill the pokemon, making it unreliable in the speedrun, just that)
After all her full name is YAS NIDOQUEEN!
My man Scott going from being a PokeTuber to being a Lord... * snif * Brings a tear to my eye.
No, but seriously, it's really great to see how far you've come, dude! I feel like I bring this up every 5 episodes or so, but your videos just keep getting better and better! You and your team deserve all the credit!
Oh, and congrats on the sponser!
Aged a bit poorly
This comment reallllyyy didn't age well
Lmfao
I watched the first episode of pokemon (subtitles, dunno if they changed any of this in the dub) but I saw something I immediately had to relay to you:
Ash is watching TV in the beginning, and a trainer resembling Bruno (same hair, same pants, same build, also shirtless, you don't see much besides a silhouette because it's dark) has Nidorino out against Gengar, gets hit by Hypnosis, switches to Onix, then uses... Tackle. Against a ghost. Even without the type matchup, he's carrying a move that starter pokemon get.
It just felt incredibly in-character for the hiker himself.
Hey man, thanks for this new video c:
Like you, I have severe ADHD.
Having your videos in the background helps me get mundane tasks done.
Thank you.
Also, as per usual, bug love!! cc:
I love this kind of content for the same reason! Glad I can provide some for you!
The psychics are there to contain Koga and his poison types
He’s a ninja. He could sneak out through the window in the roof, after his Weezing from Red/Blue puts on a smokescreen.
It's kind of hilarious that Koga's fans are mostly jugglers. Like, even blackbelts trying to learn from a ninja would make some sense, or gamblers learning the art of deception. But you have an animal tamer and a bunch of jugglers. It's like a circus.
I think at a certain point the S tier will be filled by every fully evolved pokemon that doesnt have to grind for Brock, and can learn BoltBeam
Maybe, we’ll have to start dividing the tier up if that’s the case.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon oh, I wasnt saying that like it was a bad thing. Those are the two most important things in Gen1 to be a quick run.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemonAdd an “S+ tier”
or maybe some of those only deserve A+ tier
Love the return of Scott’s vs videos! I got Nidoking in this one. I preferred Nidoqueen’s defense in Blue as a kid, but the king reached icon status for a reason. Nidoqueen will surprise with how well she does though!
They are back for good now. At least one a month from now on. However, at least one a week until the new year! ;) gotta make up for lost time.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon The ONLY ISSUE I have is Professor OAK should have been a requirement to DEFEAT to get into cerulean cave
He should have been given a key like Blaines gym
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon If you’re looking for a Gen 2 vs video, Royal Rumble. Kingdra vs Slowking. Both royal titles and both require a special evolution. Should be comparable. :)
This programing is a work of art! The details of everything in real time is a real great job!
Thanks you so much. Took from March-October to do this. I'm so glad that it really paid off!
This was such a blast to watch. It's amazing how close the two were, and congrats on zero resets!
I definitely wasn't expecting these results, though I am not surprised by them! After all, their Poison typing definitely lets them down a lot more than it helps them due to being weak to Psychic (which means Koga and Sabrina might be a roadblock). This feels a lot similar to Pokemon like Aerodactyl, Omastar, and Kabutops which have no good Rock type move and, in the fossil Pokemon's case, are quad weak to the Oddish trainer. I guess it's part of the charm of Gen 1, but not all types were created equally.
At least they were also part ground, and while Nidoqueen did pretty well, Nidoking was able to better capitalize on it thanks to having better attack and speed. And because they have identical special stats, it isn't like Nidoqueen would end up being a better special attacker, either, so I'm not surprised who came out on top either.
Poison types that do well really only do so despite being Poison type and not because of it, like having its second typing be really good offensively (like Nidoking's and Nidoqueen's Ground typing) or having really, really good stats (like Gengar's 110 speed and 130 special), as well as access to a wide array of hard-hitting coverage moves like Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Psychic (in Gengar's case), Bubblebeam, etc. And if Surf was able to be replaced, I think the Nidos would have done even better, especially against Giovanni.
Ohh man you got sponsored finally? That’s awesome man.
Thanks :)
These VS videos are so much fun.
I'm so glad I found your channel 🥰 always looking forward to what you'll do next, it'll be awesome, I just know it 😁
it's amazing how much you continue to innovate with the displays and other features on the production side, not to even mention how far you've come with gameplay and strategy, truly brilliant!
It's not going to stop!
I totally didn’t expect to see The Queen to beat King in the first play-through! This was sooo close they are both so good but the King’s attack power was the difference along with some luck for both lol!
Great job Scott, this was a great run and i truly appreciate you doing a third run because the tie breaker was needed 💯
Yeah, couldn’t leave this one on only two attempts. It was so close!
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I’m so happy you did that Scott, great job again!
Second playthrough results are also incredible. The fact that Nidoking isn't even winning by a full minute is just amazing. Never underestimate a queen I guess.
Yup, agreed. When people first asked for this video I was like, “no… Nidoking is obviously better.” Glad I eventually made it to see just how close the results really were.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon imagine if Blaine used the super potion on Arcanine vs nidoking
That actually would have been optimal to force you to high roll Arcanine due to burn
Nidoqueen winning would be rather interesting. If only because Nidoking has the stats that are typically more suitable for solo challenge runs, and Thrash is pretty effective way to save time and pp. But Nidoqueen being more defensive leaning might actually help with the Elite Four and the champion.
also nidoking has higher stab earthquake
I feel like Nidoqueen’s bulk is incredibly helpful for the likes of Lorelei.
Nidoking and Queen were really good in Gen 1. Their diverse move pools absolutely crushed many playthroughs of my Pokémon Blue cartridge.
They were so good that at some point I told myself to not use the Nido's and Gyarados because they were simply to strong.
My favorite non-comedic part of your videos is the optimizations. During the first playthrough I was like "why aren't you teaching nidoking an ice nice for Giovanni?!?!" And was then very pleased to see this fixed in the second playthrough. Your videos are absolutely incredible.
It’s been a few videos since you first mentioned the discrepancy but Wrapping Lass the Jr. Trainer still gets me every time.
"The :O vegetable" might be the most hilarious description of Weepinbell I've ever heard.
Ingenious idea!!! 😆
The best content creator on UA-cam posting up the content we want - you’re the GOAT man. Every upload is always better than the last. Keep it up!
Love watching the optimizations you do Scott! Well done!
What mom and dad arguing looks like in Pokemon style.
Hello Scott and Denis!
The king has returned. **Rafiki voice**
Another great video, Scott! My first few playthroughs of Yellow as a kid, I had both Nidoking and Nidoqueen in my team, (Because what kid understands teambuilding? lol) so I used them both alot, and was always impressed with their number of great TMs they get access to. They often carried my teams. Especially since I was too stubborn to replace the frail Pikachu. So when I got the notification for this video, I had to check it out. Although I rarely use either of them anymore in most games, this was a nice bit of nostalgia seeing them used so heavily, but I guess you proved that despite how much I prefer Nidoqueen, that Nidoking is superior. It must have been a ton of work, like all vs videos you do must be, so I want you to know that we all really appreciate the content, and I look forward to the next one!
Both nidos are amazing in gen 1, and they are both good in the early game for remakes as well. And the third playthough is kind proving that point. 😊
I really like how you perfectly plan the routing for each pokemon, and I have learnt a lot this time. 😊So thanks for that. Having a basic knowledge abot the damage rounding tharsh holds, kind of made the mid game pretty consistent, which most pokemon can't really maintain that momentum, even after intense routing, which kind of made both nido really stand out.
Before watching that video I was so sure that nidoqueen will take the lead because of her defensive stats and because of her early access to body slam. So I'm kind of surprised. 😊
By the way, that oak fight was pretty brutal, with exeggutor being really trolly with hypnosis. That is always such a salty way to lose. 😂
Keep the good work! 😉
This video felt like a sports event. During the first playthrough I was yelling "LuckQueen" and complaining how bias the commentators were but the second and the final playthroughs got me saying "no, this was all fair, better match next time!".
In all honestly, even if I grew up with Blue/Red, I never noticed they were _that_ similar to each other, and even if the breeding group is still strange, GF has made well enough changes to make them feel different enough.
I also liked the encounter rule for the follow-up playthrough. It makes a lot of sense and I'm looking forward to how it affects upcoming videos!
I’m so glad you felt like it was a sports match! When I first envisions these videos that was my inspiration. So I’m glad I’ve finally pulled it off!
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I've noticed that earlier but now, when it was my favorite Pokémons with clear favorite out of those, it hit the fan bone heavily! Also biased comments during the first playthrough help to build the trash thoughts and in the end, you wrap things up clearly and as objectively as it's possible. Keep up the great content!
Nidoqueen has always been one of my favourites. It was the second mon I raised to lvl 100, all the way back in Blue.
This video was just perfection from Scott. Well, perfection for now… I’ll check back in 3 months to see how you’ve optimized your videos even more 😂
Great run, thanks for sharing this versus with us! Nonetheless, I do feel that this one really showcases the need for multiple runs to have a more accurate perception about the Pokémon performance because I felt that you really took advantage of what you learnt from King to slightly tweak the moveset towards efficiency with Queen, and that's the only (objective, barring luck) reason why the first run was so good for the latter. In the end, having such minor stat differences and almost identical movesets then it was kind of expected that the race would be extremely close! Best regards 😊
Edit: At the Oak's fight you could've mimicked Sleep Powder from the Venusaur instead 😅 Also, with your routing it's pretty tempting to attempt an "Itemless" Speedrun with Nidoking! Yeah, it would clock in almost a full hour behind WR and considering that it would need to be submitted into the "Glitchless Classic" category then it means it also should have to deal with the Surge's Gym puzzle, but that's something I would love to run using original hardware just for flavour! Thanks again for this great video!
Your videos are also great ASMR for dogs!! If I watch these at night, my pup curls up next to me and goes right to sleep.
these 2 are my absolute favourites, especially Nidoking and am so glad you made them into a VS plus they both solid S tier, love it. I wonder how the middle evolution Nidos are gonna go, I got my money on Nidorina for that. looking forward to your next vid, got a bad feeling about the fire types you got coming, fire types are a real pain in Gen 1, I literally only ever use Charizard and Flareon (Flareon my fave Eeveelution please make him awesome)
Hey Scott, itd be so cool if you came up with cute thematic nicknames for all the notable npc trainers, Like Sandy for the the Jr Trainer with the Sand- attacking pidgeys, maybe nicki or Cardi for th wrapping Lass, sure itd be a little confusing for new viewers but us golden oldies would have a great chuckle, still loving all of your content man and love watching your career gain more and more traction, keep up the good work!
I always used thrash when I was sure the fight could be won with no confusion taking its toll. Of course in generations to follow a berry being held would reverse this problem. On a side note, Scott if you haven't played pokemon team rocket edition (a very fun romhack of Fire red) I recommend you try it. It has easily one of the most unique stories in a romhack I've played.
WARNING; Since this video Established Titles has been exposed as a scam. Please do be careful when using these gimmicky kind of services everyone
Thanks for sharing this.
This was amazing. Nidoking is my favorite mon, and even I’m shocked how high in the teir lost he managed!
37:30 Drowsee in Gen 1 learns Psychic at level 32 while Hypno learns it at 37, and I'm assuming they are just using their last 4 level up moves.
This was way closer than expected! I wonder how these two would fair in FRLG where Nidoking gets 10 more special attack and Nidoqueen gets 10 more special defense.
Quick side note: It is probably more semantically accurate to refer to it as "damage truncating," because rounding would change which levels were thresholds. I have cursed at too many stats problems to remain silent on this. However, "damage truncating" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Naw, rounding down is a common term, damage rounding is totally appropriate
@@tsawy6 within the context of the program, they are separate functions. In python, there’s a specific function for truncating called trunc(), and one for rounding called round(). Since the floating numbers always round down, that would be the result of truncating via a trunc() function. No idea about Assembly, which is what RBY were written in though, but I have heard it is incredibly frustrating to deal with floating integers in it, hence the constant truncation.
Like I said, it’s VERY semantic and nerdy, but I will die on this molehill lol
@@wilhelmisaac I mean, my strong assumption is that the trailing bits just get dropped when you're storing as an integer (which is fairly common even now). But to claim that rounding down should only be called truncation because one programming language (even many programming languages) use that terminology for it is absurd. Rounding down is a thing outside of programming, and it's absolutely, strictly, categorically correct to call this process rounding. It would also be correct to call it truncation, but you can't say it's incorrect.
@@tsawy6 if you’re using the umbrella term for rounding, sure, but that encompasses over twenty different types of rounding. What type of rounding does Pokémon use? Monte Carlo arithmetic rounding? Scaled rounding? Rounding to a specified multiple? If we are debating strictly on the basis of semantics, then we have to discuss the language holistically.
English is a low-context, high accuracy language wherein the linguistic culture tends towards specificity and detail. Thus while it may be linguistically accurate to call it rounding, it is incorrect in terms of linguistic fluency. Rounding within English nomenclature is assumed to mean rounding up/down. English specifically differentiates truncations because of this. It varies from the common assumption and thus the distribution must be made, as per the rules of the language, the definition of the terms in question, and the context in which the language and terms are currently operating.
I can (and most like will) die on this teeny tiny molehill, but hey we all gotta stand for something
@@wilhelmisaac I would strongly disagree with the claim that the linguistic culture tends towards specificity and detail in all things, and I say this as a mathematician. I would claim that english is /flexible/ and that there are contexts in which people need specificity and other contexts where breadth is acceptable. Whilst, yes, the standard meaning of rounding is 'nearest unit', calling using another meaning incorrect in terms of linguistic fluency seems absurd, especially given that the term damage truncation is longer, bulkier, and more confusing for the average person (yes we're all nerds here, but not necessarily /math/ nerds!).
Just because something could be expressed more precisely does not mean it has to, or even should be. Hell, even truncation could be specified. Is it truncated to the nearest unit, 10s, or one decimal place?
Finally you get what you deserve scott. Putting out the q&a for 40k just to have over 50k rn. Well deserved.
I just purchased some land for my mum and stepdad as a Christmas present and now they are now lord and lady such an awesome Christmas present idea thanks very much i also used your discount code appreciate and keep up the good work dude !
Man i hope you see 50K subs before the new year. You'be been absolutely killing it
I assume Nidoking will win, thrash is just too good but Ive been waiting for this video for awhile! Keep up the top notch work Scott!
All hail both the king and the queen. This is one of your most fun videos in a long while.
Pause - Kingler as the nickname? Okay, but now the Nidoqueen needs to be named Queengler -Unpause
Nidoqueen could be called Tsareena, as a tsarina is a position equivalent to a queen.
Cool video as always, Scott! Looking forward to more fast runs in the future!
Love the content! I hope all is well your way Scott. May peace be with you and your family.
Thank you for explaining the damage rounding thresholds in the recent videos!
That's why Gary likes Nidoking and Nidoqueen so much!
Scott names his Nidoking Kingler... Because that's hilarious.
Thank you so much for these kinds of videos and thank you for all your hard work. You are so fun to watch. I always look forward to your videos
Thanks so much Michael!
Hi ya Scott, watching these videos has been one of my favorite things to do this year. Having grow up in the 90s with pokemon yellow i relate so much with your stories i love watching every video you post. Your videos bring me so much joy and i just wanted to say thank you. It's been a pleasure watching your channel grow and i hope to see it only get bigger and better.
Oh yeah! Thanks as always for another treat scott! Hail Dome
I love these videos, been re-watching ur old vs videos, ur videos are improving so much. Also it will be interesting to compare this to vanmans video while watching (commenting in the intro)
Mate, I get it, you're putting so much effort into your videos and thus definitely deserve to be repaid for that financially but please don't use obvious scams like this as sponsors. It's literally just selling people a very expensive piece of paper. I love your content either way but it does leave a bit of a bitter aftertaste if it's an obvious scam business. And yeah I get it, they say they're using the money to help but they're running a for-profit business, they're not out to help nature, it's greenwashing.
Scott can I just say congratulations on all your work I love your videos
Love these mons. Cool typing and decent stats. All the coverage too lmao
Glad to see my boy Nidoking rocking it. I have fond memories of playing Gen 1 as a kid and just beating the whole game with only Nidoking because I didn't know how to use anything else
Love the videos Scott keep them up you got me back into Pokémon
I just love how Scott tells us about playing around the pp.
58:23
Edit: 1:14:45
2nd Edit: I completed the video, and I happy that Nidoqueen gave Nidoking a run for his money. They are both solid choices I slept on when I first played Gen 1 games.
16:24 "on nugget bridge I usually have PP on my mind..."
That caught me off guard
them reset totals and timers! well done!
I swear that is the exact same koffing plushie I had as a kid! Love it, favorite pokemon!
Called it. The Nidoroyality are extremely similar, both extremely new player friendly. Kidoking is slightly harder, but a bit better, while Nidoqueen is slightly more forgiving. The differences between the two are so minor that things that normally wouldn't matter truly make all the difference in a race between the two. Still, with a time as close as they got, we can all agree, the Nidoroyality are really strong.
You should call the Jr. Trainer with the 3 Pidgeys the "Sandy Lass" or hell, even just Sandy lol
Good idea.
Excellent video as always!
Also, yumust really love the solo runs that let you use Rock Slide
Did you know that you can evolve Pikachu with Growlithe in Red and Blue? I just learned this today and it blew my mind. I guess Growlithe shares code with Thunderstones. I wonder if there's anything we don't know about the games by now
Nidoqueen Blaine was an occasion for a Count impression :).
"On Nugget Bridge, I usually have PP on the mind."
Now that's a quote.
That mid game move set for Nidoqueen is such a quintessential “nido-move set”: Body Slam, Earthquake, Thunderbolt, Ice beam.
They are such great Pokemon with so much coverage potential and versatility!
Oak was like: “HOW DOES IT FEEL SCOTT??”
The power of narcolepsy is real!
Man I was rooting for Nidoqueen. Oh well she got close.
Also out of respect its been a while since I asked this, but where are the John Starters? Meganuim, Typphlosion and Feraligator need their day man!
Oh well. Love your videos, as always. And I'm doing a play through of Pokemon Yellow right now and all your tips really help out. Keep up the good work and cant wait for the next video!
Johto starters February 2023.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Oooh! Thank you good sir. I shall stop being annoying now. 😅
I've always loved the nidos, especially queen. Glad to see them getting some love
Sometimes watching these makes me wanna do the challenges myself but something as well is to try them all in later gens like Gen 4 in DP or Platinum or gen 5 where it’s difficult but long, it would be such a pain to go through some of them in all the Pokémon
Thanks for remembering to explain the damage rounding for me :)
No problem!
One of these days I'm sure you'll see the hiker's Hitmonchan freeze and thaw out one of your Pokémon. It'll be glorious!
Love Your videos and live streams!! Can I Request Hoenn Showdown???
Hoenn Rivals
Zangoose vs Seviper ?!?
21:37 actually, considering the "It's super effective!" text (and the "Hit X amount of times" text, if it were to pop up like it would in later Gens), going for Body Slam when you're guaranteed the KO is faster, so good play on that ;).
Obligatory Dennis comment. Regardless of the generation.
I always had a Nido in Pokémon yellow because the grass below Brock added them and they all learn double kick early. I think this was a balance change knowing that you were locked in getting Pikachu. I am amazed at these results because I never noticed how awful gen 1 movesets can be
Oak really was the Anti-Nidomonarchy in today's episode. He does have a rather good team to smash through those walls.
Yeah Queen just doesn't have the damage output to stay consistent like King. Offense is nearly always better than defence in Pokémon games (except Gen 2 Curse, Rest, Sleep Talk, Return/EQ), and that means that King was always destined to win. Really great runs. It's pretty amazing to see how far you've come in a year.
The moveset you listed is still primarily an offensive one because it's aiming to setup sweep, not stall for damage over time. 😂
Honestly I feel like any mon that gets Earthquake and Ice beam with decent mixed attacking sets is going to perform pretty well in the mid-late game. the combination is incredibly good at hitting a large range of mons, with Ice beam covering grass and flying types, only bug types would resist ground but most bugs in gen 1 are poison as well. that plus EQ being one of the best physical moves and in this case stab on top of it is just the making of an amazing mon. Thunderbolt rounds things out nicely with covering flying-water as well. there's a reason even in modern gen's for why electric and ice are seen as some of the best coverage typings, they seem to hit a lot of mons for 4x dmg.
You’re right. Eq, Ib, tb, and bs tend to be critical moves that allow Pokémon to get through certain sections of the game.
No speedrunning strats here due to Scotts rule set gonna make this an interesting watch
Nidoking and Nidoqueen are still amazing mons due to insane coverage and well-rounded stats. You don't necessarily spam horn drill, you also want to use other options, most notably STAB earthquake and boltbeam, as well as bubblebeam and thrash/body slam on the early and midgame and being incredibly OP stat-wise early on.
The Nidos (i.e., Nidoking and Nidoqueen) are some of my favorite Generation 1 Pokemon. Overall, I suspect Nidoking will win the race due to having a higher base attack and speed, which is favorable for a solo run. Then again, I could be wrong, as, with some creative decisions with moveset, Nidoqueen might actually win
"I also usually have PP on my mind"
Dangerous words if they are used out of context.
"I usually have PP on my mind" same Scott, same
The face on Nidoqueens belly reminds me of the thing bowser rides in the last fight of super Mario world.
Considering your sponsor, an interesting choice to name a Pokémon “Macbeth”
Awesome video yet again :)
Thanks so much!
Scott did you see the final part of the Ash vs Leon battle? If not I hope you will be happy to know that Ash’s Butterfree made an appearance in the episode! Great to have him back at least for a cameo
Omg I didn’t see it. I have to watch it now.
It’s somewhere around the 14 minute mark
This is my start of the video comment! Let’s gooo NidoKing! I think he’ll be the better of the two for sure!
37:30 The reason drowzee has psychic and the hypno does not is because generally the trainers just have the most recent 4 level up moves, and because pre-evolved pokemon tend to learn moves earlier. In this case drowzee gets psychic at level 32 and hypno gets it at 37, and they were both at lvl 34.
Your PP innuendos are hilarious
Are you planning any Scarlet/Violet content? I know it would be out of your normal video style but seeing your commentary/quips on something brand new would be super cool! BTW love the versus videos and your commentary, and the overlays have gotten so good I have a hard time watching other solo or speedrun pokemon content without it
We will see. I’m not looking to hop on the trend, but I might post a review in January. If time permits I’d like to stream some of it.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I wouldn't say new release content is necessarily trend-hopping, but I get what you are saying! I definitely think the videos where you get out of your comfort zone are my favorites, but I totally understand the amount of planning and effort that goes into producing an hour+ video like this, and diving into a new game would put strain on the process.
Also a thought on a new metric: the number of control inputs. It would take away any bias for text speed, move durations like wrap or toxic, and be as close to "frame perfect" comparison you could get between 'mons