Is Esports Still Dying?
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- Опубліковано 24 бер 2024
- Last year, we got up here and asked all of you if esports was dying…
Today, we're back to ask again.. Is it dead? Is it still dying? Or, maybe, is it coming back to life?
Written & Hosted by: Keith Capstick (@KeithCapstick)
Edited by: Sam Gore
Thumbnail by: William O'Keefe (@magoo_o)
Produced by: Danny Burke (@lurkeyburke) & Keith Capstick (@KeithCapstick)
All footage courtesy of: pastebin.com/D9yt31KX
Music used under license from Associated Production Music LLC (”APM”).
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Other than skins, can you think of anything else you’d like to see Riot make to share revenue with teams?
they can stop layoffs
a replay system for valorant
Riot should allow teams to create their own sections in the store for skins/jerseys/hats/memorabilia IN the client. Riot gets a cut of all sales, say 10%?
That might be crazy but hear me out... more tournament IK IK, its weird. I don't follow VAL tournament that much I'm on the CS side of esports but it feels so weird to watch VAL scene it seems VAL teams play like 2 big tourney per year when CS team plays a tournament or qualify every week
A cool way would be to have stickers like CS that you apply to your skin, which you can buy from the store instead of gambling for them
holy fuck i feel like i havent seen keith in years
glad to have him back
Try to make an appearance here and there.
Hes been on a coke binge with me and Hunter Biden recently
If you close your eyes, you can hear kermit speaking about esports economy
Going bigger on digital content and skins just makes so much sense. You have a unique opportunity to sell what is effectively digital merchandise, you should take much bigger advantage of it.
I find it odd valve is never mentioned when there esports have been the most sustainable.
Dota/cs audience is undeniably huge
@@damienwest2519 LoL scene is much bigger and yet they're suffering. so it's more than just the number of fans
@@godCobainwestern LoL scene is suffering it has never had any problems in asia. guess its what happens when some regions are just noncompetitive in a game they loose interest.
@@godCobainmaybe it's biggest ( i really doubt it is ), but it's most forced too.
@@ArtaEva literally has highest viewership record for any esports event in history. CS and dota combined can't touch LoL numbers. are you living under a rock?
Surprised this is only about team esports. The fighting game scene has grown massively in the past year. Every tournament worldwide is breaking attendance and prize pool records. Big sponsors are coming in and supporting players both as individuals and as groups. It's crazy.
On another note, the Smite league has been running the same business model mentioned in the video for a few years now. Might be worth looking into for a potential follow up video.
Also fighting games esports are really fun to watch as compared to team esports.
@@TheDarkVictiniAgreed with FGC being really fun to watch but disagree with them always being more fun to watch than team eSports
CS matches are elite
Too bad Smite just isn't a very good game.
Awesome that you marked the different points in 5:25 with different colors! Transforms the wall of text into informative and manageable bits of information that support what's being said!
Keith 'Deadeye' Capstick, we've missed ya dude
Remember guys, just because the NA league is as good as Oceania on the most famous games doesn't mean eSports are dying
OCE skill floor is still higher than NA
Be riot, only 10 years behind valve
Esports will keep growing as long as there is passion from the players, not from big organizations only joining for a bag. The late 2010’s were big orgs joining esports hoping it to be the new NFL but esport will be a slow organic growth.
Examples like the Valorant Major shows that the viewer base is still growing. The fanbase for esports is mainly young teens so they may be too young to buy merch and other financial investments but i see the financial side growing overtime as the fanbase grows older overtime.
People tend to forget that when the NBA and other leagues first started that the salary’s were low and that many players were in the league as a side job. It took decades for the leagues to be as financial as it is now. Esports shouldn’t be pressured to reach similar heights so fast. It is slowly growing and will keep growing at its own pace.
gaming is in the sweetspot of older then parents credit card but too young to have a stable income yet. which means it takes a long time before these fans can actually purchase products. also gamers are smarter with their money compared to the average person.
@@johnmarkson1998frfr gamers are really smarter with their money, totally.
Generally I think I agree. The scene doesn't have to grow SO FAST, and if it contracts a bit I dont think thats a disaster.
@@Sinaeb at least gen z is. which is why live services games are being ignored in favour of titles like palworld and helldivers. yes older generations pumping EA with income was tough to watch but those days are over now.
@bigjohncena6986 tell that to the Asian market lol also my 15 year old cousin has something to say about that
I still fail to see any value in large esports infrastructure for broader communities even as someone who loves watching and competing and I fail to see how these institutions can make solid revenue if they can't meaningfully monetize broadcasting. I don't give a fuck if someone good at pressing buttons can make 6-7 figures off of playing the game, I'm here for the hobby of loving video games and the joy of competing and self improvement with and against likeminded individuals. I get NOTHING from these games being viable career paths for the .00001% of players with the skill AND opportunity to join an org.
If esports really want to succeed in any capacity they'll have to convince viewers who have been used to free broadcasts/coverage for decades now to pay for said coverage and the entire industry will have to pick a small list of games to throw their full collective power behind. Spreading orgs across dozens of games of varying degrees of success or relevance is not the way esports gets off the ground. If we had maybe 6-7 titles with full industry push to get going then maybe we could get somewhere. The rest of the games that wish to have comp scenes will do so the way the vast majority of games for 20+ years made it happen. Grassroots efforts from the community itself driven by a love of the game where everyone involved knows they aren't trying to become a sponsored, salaried player.
If your business cannot form a one sentence answer to the question "How do you make money?", then your business is failing or its breaking the law. E-sports needs to remember that when deciding its future.
Its the format that sucks ass. Esports would always exist as long as people are playing games competitively.
We literally have an MS excel esports scene. CS, Dota and Fighting games had international scenes without any management.
Esports are dying, proceeds to only talk about NA, like the rest of the world exist you know?
I played League off & on for years & loved the team skins after worlds, always bought them. I switched to Val, but hadn't bought a single skin since 2021. I bought the SEN bundle so fast when I saw it. I wanna see more of that. I like that my money is supporting more than just Rito's bottom line.
Kermit the Frog is back with another video, nice
omg u sound like patrick mahomes😭
no he doesnt he sounds like kermit
@@loiteringrambler1268he sounds like Patrick Mahomes tho
@@Bobby__Kotick oh god how hard is it to understand how things work. Kermit existed decades before Mahomes was even a thought. which means that mahomes sounds like kermit the frog and he also sounds like kermit the frog and not mahomes
@@loiteringrambler1268ow shit 😂🎉
@@loiteringrambler1268ok but the guy from the video still sounds like Patrick Mahomes
love the grateful dead shirt
Okay respectfully, you sound like Glenn from superstore AND I ABSOLUTELY LOVE ITTTTT
I don't really watch theScore as much as I used to back in the day. I really like your Charisma you work good on camera.
Thank you MushMunkey
Do you know that they are being held as king of copyright violator?
what a timing after Sprout just announced that they ceased operations as of today.
Glad to see score esports add Kermit to their roster
there are patch notes for sure in basketball, although not as much in the forefront as it is in video games. dribbling was changed, specific players made the league change some rules, the addition of the shot clock, hand checking etc.
Need a new patch in basketball soon. The meta is getting stale when the only viable build is the 7'2 feet class.
Glad to see you back on theScore esports, Pat Mahomes, missed you ^^;
I missed you too valentine
They can make the skins and digital content seasonal and subscription-based. That could help with generating revenue for the teams individually. 20 to 30 bucks for the digital content Bundle every couple months or so. At the end of the subscription term the digital content goes away, but can be repurchased. This can provide consistent income and an ability to gauge interest directly.
The teams get a portion of the bundle revenue of course.
that grateful dead shirt is sooo freaking sick
Knew this would eventually come to riotgames and LoL as its one if not the most stable esports scene atm, hell it even grew when esports were "dying" which is true but LoL somehow grown from it and now its i belive the most watched esports series globally
i love the hand motions
Well the PGL CS2 major have about 1 milion views and the finals is this weekend. Thus hopefully we get above 1.5 mil.
I must say there looks to be a little less ads, there are still betting ads and some ads between the matches. But honestly it nice as a viewer. I watch on youtube with premium, thus it might be a little different on twitch. I don't know if the model is sustainable, or if the top teams needs to reduce there salary expenses. To me it looks like some of the "cheaper/low budget" teams have a good chance ending in the final. So maybe there is a sustainable model that will ensure 10 years more of pro CS to enjoy. 🤞
didnt you see he only mentions Riot games and not valve? Valolrant and LOL are dead games that's why they need to copy Valve again in making digital content. CS eams have always been in profit especially when they qualify for the major.
@@flavaa9494League is far from dead, the community is just a toxic cesspool of ego’s who think they’re unironically better than their region’s pro scene, hence they don’t want to watch.
Ngl i dont really like esports, i like r6 esports every so often but dont care for the rest of them i only watch this channel because i like the channel and how you guys lay out your videos, you guys are really why i watch or know things about esports, keep up the good work score esports!
Like i dont care about csgo but i like watching you guys talk about it!😂
Usually people only like watching the E-sports of games they play or have played.
Sprout ceasing operation is just another sign to show how brutal the esports scene is. Unless you're a T1 team or individual in your respective game, usually the money to guarantee the operations or even your cost of living is way too little in the esports scene. If we look at fighting games, there have been times where individual prizes are so little, such as when Tekken's Rangchu came home with $7500 on the Tekken World Tour Finals 2019 despite him having to travel all over to grind, and that's one of the few T1 tournaments. Sure it was 2019, but it is a proof that esports players play for mostly passion and not necessarily money. If you're not in T1, you are literally neck deep in the water and you have to pray you make it far enough to appear in a T1 tournament to sustain yourself for maybe a few more years.
They need to let teams develop their own training maps that people can buy. People will pay 4.99 for a shooting range DLC. They could set up courses and do speed runs of the course, and that would help build communities among teams' fans.
Kinda fresh seeing a newer person on this channel
New or VERY old!? That is the question.
@@keithcapstickhaha nice to see you reading the comments. I enjoyed this episode!
Babe wake up, Keith is back
maybe what is happenning with KarminCorp can open way as they got an stadium (there not the owner) for them and they annouce a subscription for fan to go there for watching the matches of KC, I don't know how hard it is to pull off in other part of the world (it's a miracle it happenned in france)
This also means the team capsules in Valorant must have been a massive success. W zellsis, I think a couple people bought the sentinels bundle.
The voice quality/change from the clip a year ago to today is .. different
i can feel his left eye brow reaching out to his right, trying to become one again
The bubble burst but the smaller guys are able to carry on because they aren't after mega profits.
Esports is not dying but it is becoming stagnant and more corrupted
Screw the video. Bro, I gotta know where did you get the t-shirt from???
nice gains since last year
I think allowing teams to play in 3rd part tournaments is entirely directed towards the virtually unlimited investment that Saudi Arabia is pumping into the esports scene. They’re hosting an esports World Cup this summer which has a shit ton of games in it which will hopefully spread interest amongst different games.
To be honest, there isn't much evidence to say this will change in the near future. The problem with esports the way I see it anyway, is just the fundamental business model. The reason why football or basketball or any other "traditional" sport is profitable is because of its exclusivity. You HAVE to pay for Sky to watch the Premier League, you HAVE to pay for ESPN or Fox to watch the NBA or the NFL. Obviously Piracy is a thing but for the most part, that's the reality. With esports events, you can watch it for free on Twitch or UA-cam, so broadcasting revenue as an avenue has been eliminated. Merch sales are always going to be low, no one's walking around in a Twistzz jersey, they're all wearing LeBron jerseys. Really, the only reliable source of income for esports is ticket sales, which isn't sustainable at all because they only rent the stadiums, there's no FaZe Arena or Na'Vi Stadium so they lose money there too.
Additionally, investment isn't going to happen because investors are always going to see that the model is kaput and they're not making their money back, because the financial statements are always going to be in the red. Another problem is the fact that most people who watch esports are still kids. We're getting older sure, but it's still mostly minors, which means they're not getting the green light from mom and dad to leave the house for a stadium to watch their favorite team, they're just watching it on their PCs on Twitch. For that matter, I'm sure most of us would honestly prefer to stay home and watch ESL on Twitch.
The hope is that because it's still a new thing, it'll grow, but as of now, the risk is whether they'll run out of money before they're done growing big enough to break even.
shoutout to rocket league for having revenue share team skins since 2020
And R6 is weapon skins, CS is for sticker, Dota team bundle
Shout out to epic for making the esport unsustainable.
@@okbro978more like riot
@forte609 not super familiar with valo and leauge, but team liquid pulled out of rl because smaller games were generating more revenue.
This might come as a hot take but I think player salaries are too high for the revenue the teams are making. We can't compete with traditional sports teams revenues but somehow some player salaries are going into the millions. The addition of a salary cap could probably be a welcome change even a soft cap would be nice. It limits teams total spending and bolsters competition by having a more equal playing field for teams instead of one team just buying the best players without any repercussions.
I would pay for a streaming platform. Maybe for special events like semis or finals. But also getting special content for the games or something like that idk
I see Keith has spent his time away from the camera learning how to talk with his hands
Isn't it weird how Riot used to say that they don't make money from their eSports department, and don't consider it advertising, yet they're pumping money back in now that viewership/users are down?
im not sure how much i like this new commentator, but im happy he doing his thang, hope he does well.
Also, Keith's keyboard is called a Hexgears Gemini Dusk.
The problem with esports is its so niche, i don't mean market size i mean the number of leagues and games, how do you market a product that is like 30 or more versions of soccer or American football or basketball, the fragmentation makes it tough, if i have my say it would be better doing a kind of version of fifa and putting all esport games under an umbrella, money can be generated i mean look at tech stocks and the promise crypto and ai, the only problem is how.
Crazy that CS wasn't mentioned at all, the 2023 Paris major brought in $110 million from sticker sales alone. CS has a high barrier to entry but the reward for making the major is insane.
i remember riot did the championship khazix chromas for every team at worlds a few years back but not sure why they didnt carry on with it back then
When you pay players over 200k USD then ya it is. Unless they have won a champion at worlds then thats understandable but players like DoubleLift and Berg getting paid 7 figures even though they can't get out of group stage is beyond stupid salary pay. What kind of moron started this trend of 7 figure for players who never won worlds is the reason why Esport is dying. No revenue and if there is revenue they invest it in players who don't deserve those salary. Why do you think Esport is dying in NA and NA is considered the retirement house for players to make big pay?
Traditional sports started that. They have massive stars that individually can play very well, but half of the time can't really do much in their teams.
@thecrimsondollta2153 issue is those sports have HUGE sponsors and advertisements. Let's not forget that the owners are all billionaires that pay those salary. If you also look at the statistics, they usually pay them 50 mill for over a 5 year contract but when they do this they usually are hiring world champion players that had proven their skill on the world stage. Yes, esports get sponsor but to the height of basketball/football sponsor is beyond different. Why do you think Logitech and Razer stop sponsoring so many League teams now?
How do people think more trash talk would help esports is beyond me
Trash talk is cringe, Faker is popular without Trash Talk, S1mple is popular and he almost always answers trash talk then it oeople talk to him.
People like donk or hooxi are just cringe when trash talking
Will you guys make a video on the disappointing global release of warzone mobile?
Esport viewers want everything for free and the industry struggles because of it. Games have been putting esport cosmetics in games for ages and it hasn't helped. It's the viewers not finding or wanting to buy anything to support teams.
Literally forgot dota with their insane prize pool funded by the battle pass.
Along with CS with player/team stickers
Counterstrike 1.6 and source had money crews back in the day.
Jason lake had a team built around him
Replay system for valorant and Bring back events for League like THE WHOLE STAR GUARDIAN EVENT WAS BEAUTIFUL.
Esports has never been profit positive but investors kept pumping money into it thinking it had huge upside and the leagues and orgs had no problem blowing everything and learned that money didnt matter. Until now.
People watch it for the gameplay. Impossible to keep up with the good teams / players in a game like League, it shifts a lot every year and every meta with only a few recurring pros. It will never completely die though. As long as people remain interested in playing at a competitive level you will always get some form of skrims, tournaments etc even if the player count were to drop to 5000.
Meanwhile fighting games just keep getting bigger and better...
bro they shut down gamebattles, the biggest platform for call of duty comp matches its sad
Good coverage of the Riot state of things, but it’s quite strange to make a video on this topic and exclude any discussion of how Valve has done this model with Counter-Strike for many years now and how it has been very beneficial to the orgs who make the majors, with record profits in recent years. I don’t mean to sound like I’m wearing a tinfoil hat, but it really does feel almost disingenuous to the discussion of digital goods revenue sharing to not talk about Valve and CS at least as a part of the backstory or existing narrative, at minimum.
I think its a great step for Riot, and I hope more devs/execs switch to something similar
The hand gestures are overwhelming
Thought I was the only one
Almost like player contracts are overly inflated.
"measures taken to keep LoL esports healthy" but at the same time they've been killing off minor regions since 2019-2020 and even the Vietnamese league had some really big problems not too long after riot announced this plan (only made for 3 major regions)
The only people making money in e-sports since the beginning are the studios behind the games and the event organizers (valves dota for example). There simply isn't enough demand for merch from e-sports teams whos rosters can and will change month to month or best case scenario season to season. There have never been ANY returns for investors into teams lol i've been heavily following this stuff for over a decade. Influencers making teams are the ONLY way teams can survive (because the influencers have tons of disposable income) until orgs figure out how to take advantage of the talent they have to make money for investors.
where u have been keith
W Rework
Where we live for years we use to host lan tournaments.
Esports died when it went "private" and these clans and orgs tried running a show that was based on the INTERNET at the time now days its all CONTROLLED and the entertainment factor sucks
Covid and crypto just put some unrealistic expectations. But ppl are still even watching CS2, and the game is a punching bag!
Honestly this was the answer all along! Developers were just zealous of sharing their golden goose.
Title should be "Is Riot games team organizations dying?"
true
Esports was trying to grow too fast instead of organically
Let teams build their venues/stadiums with a certain max capacity where they can host LAN events. Share the profits from ticket sales...? Look at what Kcorp is doing with their stadium that'll open this summer, they plan to host +- 25 events a year for 3000 people, that's not nothing... When you see where the LEC season is taking place, with like 50 people in the audience, it's kinda sad.
The blurry texts on the background screens and stickers hurt my eyes :(
honestly it might be because we don't have stadiums in every state and teams in every state having home and away games, so yeah, we don't have a reliable source of income lol, maybe we should have like 30 teams and 30 stadiums find a way to make these a reality and who knows maybe, esports might make money, honestly unknown on what's to come.
a lot of investments now, this is dirty ruzzian money, through bookmakers. It's a shame that eSports tolerates this.
now make an update video for next year
the harsh truth is that esports had a massive bubble fueled with betting and crypto money that had to eventually burst, just give the esports scene time to stabilize and hopefully stop the nonsense with the attempt at being traditional sports
Esports is such a broad term that it can never truly die. RTS games are certainly not where they were 15 years ago but fighting games are at an all time peak. Just because fps games and League are rough right now doesn't mean other esports are not doing well.
The only eSport I care to see these days is THE FINALS. Nothing else puts on a show worth watching.
How much do I have to pay for a functioning client?
Bro was in a cole marathon💀
unpopular opinion: esports dying is good! it ensures that players play for passion not money, it gives room for a larger variety in games and makes it possible to boost the awareness and interest in smaller tournaments. all this worrying about funding and having to push games hard to maintain their marketability as an esport makes the whole thing uninteresting for me. I remember a time when esports took place at a "big" lan at some local townhall. if you weren't there at the time, believe me passion and atmosphere were totally different!! big orgs and big money truly destroyed esports. its good that it crumbles now and might find its way back to its roots.
how are esports dying if the esports are made of people and each year and further generations, the number of gamers is growing and will keep growing even more?
A few setbacks and failed experiments shouldn't determine the death of anything until it is truly all gone. And let's be real, the day esports dies is the day PvP multiplayer dies.
The only thing that matter is Buy the SEN Bundle...
'Zellsis can I have my family back now?'
Look at Lachlan and team pwr there are the perfect example of how a org can do well
That greatful dead shirt hard as fuck
I hope.. I was all in for Esports as it was coming up.. but game companies now only CARE about pro players.. the 1%? if that.. and leave all of us with games BALANCED for Pros and Esports.
What is the 100T CEO yapping about? IRRELEVANT SINCE THEN
I play competitive games but I don't really watch esports. Only league of legend world tournament and that's it.
riot riot riot.. meanwhile, left and right in europe competing cs2 and dota tournament
LETS GOOOO TEAM SKINSSS
Sprout ceased 6 hours ago.
Worst possible timing. 😢
Doublelift saying: It will be better for LCS from now on.
Meanwhile out of the 4 major regions NA is the only one without a salary cap.
NACL players got paid more than LEC players in the past years.
LCS players easly got triple the amount of salary than the best EU players in one of the worst LCS teams.
Without any international sucess they are simply getting way too much money for 0 effort they are putting into the game to improve.