Finally. thank you. thank you. thank you. In all honesty, i've had mix engineers send approved mixes to me for mastering that were not only commercially loud, but excellent quality. The inclination to go in and "do stuff" is so interesting, almost instinctual. When something basically perfect arrives, it's still difficult not to want to start processing it despite the music needing nothing. A mastering engineer I respect a lot told me that one of the most important things is to recognize when to do nothing. These cases may be rare, but it's so true for me. Thanks for an awesome channel, just subscribed :)
I think you nailed it when you spoke about gear being set up too receive a certain level of input. Which is really only important if they're using analogue equipment. I can understand that. That's where they have it set for great results. BUT... it wouldn't bother me if someone asked me for this even if they're mastering in a DAW. As long as their previous results sounded great. I have bad habits, I have tonnes of gaps in my knowledge, but I get brilliant results (except for when I don't, but we don't talk about that). My guess is that asking for so much headroom is more about asking for heavy compression and limiting to be taken off the mix, and this became the easiest way to get something which isn't crushed to death. New subscriber - am enjoying your videos.
Good to questioning these kind of truths. I would imagine this -6dB headroom rule comes from the old analog world where you could not just check in the DAW across the whole track for it's highest peak. Using VU meters with maybe a blinking LED for transients - then having 6dB headroom is probably a good safety thumb rule.
Before: I like to have it at -6dB as it shows a kind of discipline in keeping the levels in check. Furthermore, I know there will be boosting during the mastering stage and I like to control it there as well as final shaping/refining. After: Admittedly, I did adopt this because I took the myth to heart. But I also later heard Dan Worrall address this and I came away with “you don’t need to do it, but it doesn’t hurt it if you do”. For myself, I work on my own music and I leave overall volume and gain to the mastering stage. To be fair to the “mastering engineers that use presets”, it’s most likely an effect chain of go-to processors that will then be tweaked when it is needed. It’s definitely not “set it and forget it”. *That* will raise alarm bells 😁 But all in all, very good points and looking forward to more =]
Before: I just try to leave -6db on every track to prevent things from getting too loud because then I’ll reach for a compressor or limiter / other plugin when I’m writing. I mix as I go to see if the elements play well together or if they’re masking each other. I’ll edit for after AFTER: this is interesting and I want to give this a try!
It was a confusion at first what levels to set tracks while mixing, aiming for -12db to -6db levels leaves lots of headroom, I use a loudness plugin that shows lufs and levels for different platforms as well
I like videos like this. Physics is physics, there is no voodoo or magic. Just facts and, on the other hand, pure emotion. And when both come together, the result is very good music.
ya Spot on!! Just don't Clip it... Thats all i care about same as you... Good one (EDIT.. I think i recall disk makers even having -6 in posted in a book or website back years ago. Back in the day i did over shoot one time hitting a dat and had to resend it. I wonder if this might have played in to it. I think i was ADATS for tracking then to a dat for pressing. hell i dont recall 100% just wanted to add this thought.
As a mastering engineer I prefer all the bit information I can to retain the highest quality possible. Giving someone a -6 db mix is like reducing the pixels in an image. So as close to zero as possible please!
I once read you need all that headroom so the mastering can "work it's magic." Sounds suspiciously like expecting the mastering engineer to fix a bad mix. I think you should set your mix bus as loud as possible, without affecting audio quality of course, so as little compression as possible is needed to reach your loudness goals. This means you will also preserve as much of the track's dynamic range as possible. If so called experts start telling you that dynamic range isn't that important any more, ask them what Hans Zimmer would think of that. A lot of music these days still makes use of dynamic range. Cinematic, pop, rock & even EDM. Mastered levels are also in dispute lately. I think anything between -3 to -0.3 dB is fine in most cases. There are even cases of clipping to 0. It all depends what you are aiming for dynamics wise. Ambient music can be limited to -3 dB TP but the LUFS should be kept as low as -19. EDM is fine at 9 to 14 LUFS with -1dB TP. Most streaming services are restricting everything to 14 LUFS anyway. That's great news. The loudness wars were just a shouting contest & ruining music.
I think a lot of loudness is achievable during mastering by how well transients are handled in the mix. I think if you end up with a mix with less than 6dB of headroom, it doesn't matter as long as the mix was done properly. It is a good idea, however, to be consistent with your mixes. So whatever you do, do it the same way every time. If the mastering engineer barely has any work to do, there's nothing wrong with that.
@@khoivinh3402 There's no rules as long as you're not clipping and or making it sound bad. When learning, it's a great idea to get into the practice of leaving yourself 3-6dB or even 10dB of headroom while mixing. This level is mainly set during balancing when you're bringing up all your track's faders to get a rough mix. Add EQ, compression, and saturation during the mixing stage as needed. This will generally bring up your level a bit. If everything after this stage is causing the master fader to clip, lower all your faders together or at the submix level, or create a VCA to bring down everything together until no longer clipping. Mastering is at this point going to be final touches (very minor usually) and pushing into a limiter with about 3.5dB of Gain Reduction (GR). I have YT vids on some of this stuff if you'd like to see.
In my experience, having learned a lot about mastering first before learning enough about mixing, even tho I can do mastering, I have come to realize I can’t trust my perception of the music as good as a dedicated mastering engineer. Yet still so many of them request a -6db premaster. And whenever I ask why, there really isn’t an answer, which is funny yet concerning.
It's because they receive a lot of mixes that are clipping badly. Asking for this much headroom is a safety margin. If the you mix properly though, you don't need all that headroom. It's best to turn your track faders up so the mix bus is reading -3dB true peak at the loudest part of your track.
The reason mastering engineers want you to leave 6db of headroom is so that they can get your mix much louder and then send it back to you. You hear a louder mix and instantly think it sounds better 😂
Finally. thank you. thank you. thank you. In all honesty, i've had mix engineers send approved mixes to me for mastering that were not only commercially loud, but excellent quality. The inclination to go in and "do stuff" is so interesting, almost instinctual. When something basically perfect arrives, it's still difficult not to want to start processing it despite the music needing nothing. A mastering engineer I respect a lot told me that one of the most important things is to recognize when to do nothing. These cases may be rare, but it's so true for me. Thanks for an awesome channel, just subscribed :)
I think you nailed it when you spoke about gear being set up too receive a certain level of input. Which is really only important if they're using analogue equipment. I can understand that. That's where they have it set for great results.
BUT... it wouldn't bother me if someone asked me for this even if they're mastering in a DAW. As long as their previous results sounded great. I have bad habits, I have tonnes of gaps in my knowledge, but I get brilliant results (except for when I don't, but we don't talk about that).
My guess is that asking for so much headroom is more about asking for heavy compression and limiting to be taken off the mix, and this became the easiest way to get something which isn't crushed to death.
New subscriber - am enjoying your videos.
Good to questioning these kind of truths.
I would imagine this -6dB headroom rule comes from the old analog world where you could not just check in the DAW across the whole track for it's highest peak. Using VU meters with maybe a blinking LED for transients - then having 6dB headroom is probably a good safety thumb rule.
Before: I like to have it at -6dB as it shows a kind of discipline in keeping the levels in check. Furthermore, I know there will be boosting during the mastering stage and I like to control it there as well as final shaping/refining.
After: Admittedly, I did adopt this because I took the myth to heart. But I also later heard Dan Worrall address this and I came away with “you don’t need to do it, but it doesn’t hurt it if you do”. For myself, I work on my own music and I leave overall volume and gain to the mastering stage.
To be fair to the “mastering engineers that use presets”, it’s most likely an effect chain of go-to processors that will then be tweaked when it is needed. It’s definitely not “set it and forget it”. *That* will raise alarm bells 😁
But all in all, very good points and looking forward to more =]
nice interesting video. I find that a peak at -3 dB in the choruses can be a fair compromise for good mixing. imho
Before:
I just try to leave -6db on every track to prevent things from getting too loud because then I’ll reach for a compressor or limiter / other plugin when I’m writing.
I mix as I go to see if the elements play well together or if they’re masking each other.
I’ll edit for after
AFTER: this is interesting and I want to give this a try!
Also when you’re dialing in things around that -18 sweet spot you usually end up with -6 for headroom
But isn’t the -18 “sweet spot” in RMS, not dBFS?
It was a confusion at first what levels to set tracks while mixing, aiming for -12db to -6db levels leaves lots of headroom, I use a loudness plugin that shows lufs and levels for different platforms as well
that -14 db for spotify is absolute bs. I get my songs sitting at -8
"If the mastering engineer is using presets, I'm not using that mastering engineer."
I stick to -5 to -3. I judge it on how the track is sounding
I like videos like this. Physics is physics, there is no voodoo or magic. Just facts and, on the other hand, pure emotion. And when both come together, the result is very good music.
ya Spot on!! Just don't Clip it... Thats all i care about same as you... Good one (EDIT.. I think i recall disk makers even having -6 in posted in a book or website back years ago. Back in the day i did over shoot one time hitting a dat and had to resend it. I wonder if this might have played in to it. I think i was ADATS for tracking then to a dat for pressing. hell i dont recall 100% just wanted to add this thought.
Great series, and fantastic topic for first video. Got me thinking about it. Thanks Sam. Looking forward to next myths 😂
As a mastering engineer I prefer all the bit information I can to retain the highest quality possible. Giving someone a -6 db mix is like reducing the pixels in an image. So as close to zero as possible please!
Great to have your input 👌
thank you, i was waiting for conformation.
Right but if your drums for example are peaking around -6 it’s easier to get a good mix than it is with drums that are close to clipping
How so?
I once read you need all that headroom so the mastering can "work it's magic." Sounds suspiciously like expecting the mastering engineer to fix a bad mix. I think you should set your mix bus as loud as possible, without affecting audio quality of course, so as little compression as possible is needed to reach your loudness goals. This means you will also preserve as much of the track's dynamic range as possible. If so called experts start telling you that dynamic range isn't that important any more, ask them what Hans Zimmer would think of that. A lot of music these days still makes use of dynamic range. Cinematic, pop, rock & even EDM.
Mastered levels are also in dispute lately. I think anything between -3 to -0.3 dB is fine in most cases. There are even cases of clipping to 0. It all depends what you are aiming for dynamics wise. Ambient music can be limited to -3 dB TP but the LUFS should be kept as low as -19. EDM is fine at 9 to 14 LUFS with -1dB TP.
Most streaming services are restricting everything to 14 LUFS anyway. That's great news. The loudness wars were just a shouting contest & ruining music.
If u gave to the mastering engineer shit , then u will have a masterized shit, thats all i know
I think a lot of loudness is achievable during mastering by how well transients are handled in the mix. I think if you end up with a mix with less than 6dB of headroom, it doesn't matter as long as the mix was done properly. It is a good idea, however, to be consistent with your mixes. So whatever you do, do it the same way every time. If the mastering engineer barely has any work to do, there's nothing wrong with that.
Wait do we have to wait until mastering stage to touch the loudness. can we do it during mixing stage?
@@khoivinh3402 There's no rules as long as you're not clipping and or making it sound bad. When learning, it's a great idea to get into the practice of leaving yourself 3-6dB or even 10dB of headroom while mixing. This level is mainly set during balancing when you're bringing up all your track's faders to get a rough mix. Add EQ, compression, and saturation during the mixing stage as needed. This will generally bring up your level a bit. If everything after this stage is causing the master fader to clip, lower all your faders together or at the submix level, or create a VCA to bring down everything together until no longer clipping. Mastering is at this point going to be final touches (very minor usually) and pushing into a limiter with about 3.5dB of Gain Reduction (GR). I have YT vids on some of this stuff if you'd like to see.
In my experience, having learned a lot about mastering first before learning enough about mixing, even tho I can do mastering, I have come to realize I can’t trust my perception of the music as good as a dedicated mastering engineer. Yet still so many of them request a -6db premaster. And whenever I ask why, there really isn’t an answer, which is funny yet concerning.
It's because they receive a lot of mixes that are clipping badly. Asking for this much headroom is a safety margin. If the you mix properly though, you don't need all that headroom. It's best to turn your track faders up so the mix bus is reading -3dB true peak at the loudest part of your track.
These days, it seems as if your output is between -1 and -2 dBTP and your crest factor is minimized on your mix, mastering should be a breeze.
It’s an added “advantage” to provide a louder master.
there is two types of db. dbu and dbv, when the latter is never mentioned beware!..
The reason mastering engineers want you to leave 6db of headroom is so that they can get your mix much louder and then send it back to you. You hear a louder mix and instantly think it sounds better 😂
😂
😂😂😂
Just don’t clip. Plain and simple
Unless it’s a creative choice… for the sound