That makes sense if it was strictly competitive, I think fwiw after you get through a base playthrough anything over 10hr for a standard team (catching, evs, ivs, abilities, Tera, etc) is absurd and rn that average is double. The game is still an rpg so with that in mind something that requires some form of training up mons makes sense with the spirit of the game
if i want to get every pokemon sv exsclusie pokemon id be spending 240 dollars and im a kid without a job and i doubt my parents would let me because i want a digital past enti
@@oLivSama but doesn’t the charm require a dex completion? That’d probably take longer to do than just grinding the raids straight up, unless you are gonna change terra for a ton of mons I’m not sure if the dex grind is worth the reward
@ZzsiegzZ if it's for a single regional probably but as someone who did pursue the charm it was worthwhile if I wanna play at events in 2025 like I'm planning to as of rn
Easy no, if you have to cheat to play a competitive game then you shouldn't play it. Cheat in causal offline all you want, but the second it effects other player's is when it's wrong especially when money is involved
As someone who has been playing pokemon since Yellow Version and 30 yrs old, here is my take…. I attempted to get into VGC back in B/W & X/Y but I was in college and team building was too difficult. I finally gave getting back into VGC a shot with S/V since team building has gotten “easier” but it’s still so time consuming. With getting items, vitamins, mochi, battle items, and getting a few version exclusives of DLC Pkmn from trusted friends or my older games, it still took forever getting the team together for Orlando Regionals ‘24 for my first regionals. Looking back, I had a great time even though stressful getting the team together and the experience overall learning so much more about pokemon and intricacies of double battles. Outside of the time sink, I feel you lose out on the entire experience of being “A pokemon trainer” when you gen pokemon. Everyone doesn’t have hundreds of hours to sink, even I don’t but just enjoy the game for what it is. It definitely makes tournament play harder because I’m even having to switch up a few things for Reg G but that’s just the nature of the beast with how Pokemon flows nowadays in VGC.
The biggest problem are newer players who don’t have access to the amount of pokemon that someone who’s been playing for 30 years and has all the games since then. This means that the competitive scene is in practice more exclusive towards older players.
its actually pretty difficult still; the bigger issues come from players who can't afford every title of the games or people who keep up with the trading aspect these games were built around decades ago and lost access to key pokemon. not to say that everyone has these same issues but the fact that core pillars of the franchise are now being encouraged AGAINST by tour judges is a pretty telling sign of the state of these games. that tbf is because of hack checks, but the hacking wouldn't be this bad if better systems were in place, and it becomes a situation of the chicken and the egg for if hacking would be necessary if a good system to obtain mons was in place to begin with, and if people are obtaining mons anyway right now why fix the system's biggest issues since it's working well enough anyways.
@@oLivSama people hack because they don't feel like grinding for 0 speed iv's and stuff like that. Pathetic but understandable. But hacking for Pokemons? What pokemon is so unobtainable, given that mythicals are not legal? And I don't get the argument of not playing the game because you can't afford it. Well shit son, you have to buy stuff, just like the old days.
In my opinion genning is a good thing for the competitive scene, it helps people with little free time but want to play competitive. But genning is against the rules and it should be enforced. Also with the 0 IV Pokémon thing i forgot where i herd this originally but i herd of someone talking about a new item the Rusty Bottle Cap, same as a bottle cap but sets the iv of the stat to 0, i think this solution is more in the spirit of Pokémon .
Well instead of a whole new item, y not just modify the bottle cap so that when u use it, u can decide any number from 0-31 to be the IV for the chosen stat. Just in case u needed specific IVs for a very niche strategy and not just 0 vs 31 all the time. Also yes I think it's fair to disqualify players who genned but *ONLY because it's against the rules* and nothing else. I just wish genning was actually legal so that anyone can just create a team and instantly start playing.
yea pretty much my thoughts asw, theres a lot of positives it offers and at least theyre enforcing the rule, but the rule against it is bad imo for the growth
Yeah on cart this is a non issue with rental teams. I also have a full time job and im able to make teams for every regulation no problem, training your Pokemon is kinda the point anyway. But for tournament players it is tough. I do think there should be an item that drops ivs to 0 in game. I think Pokemon has done a good job adding in things to help customize your pokemon properly and rental is an amazing resource that probably should be available in tournaments
its definitely not hard to get teams its more hard to get them when the format usually adapts so quickly; but i agree its mostly a tournament issue and rentals would help a lot
I am a competitive Pokemon player and I am constantly using different rental teams, but then when I go to tournaments I end up doing real bad. I think that it would be very good if #PlayPokémon made it so you could use rental teams because ain't no way some one is gonna spend 20+ hours building a Pokemon team just for them to not qualify for the next stage. (btw I think it's funny that Ray Rizzo got disqualified from the 2014 Worlds I don't think he cheated I think they were scared he would win again.
I think a different mode with any Pokemon you can choose that’s available without any need to catch or train like with Pokemon showdown battle simulator where it’s for training with Pokemon battles instead of 24 hours of RNG manipulation, IV training, and ev training.
See, this topic can be discussed without getting all the hate in the world from cheaters and hackers. It's just that some individuals (only Verlisify) are really eager to insult every person possible (and their followers) while discussing the issues. That's why he's under the impression that people don't want to follow rules and are money-driven assholes.
It's an issue with accessibility for new players, I get my stuff from the ground up but knowing how that process can go for a newer player I wouldn't exactly blame someone for doing it either
@oLivSama I don't believe that cause I joined vgc at Scarlet and Violet. Sure I had to go buy the older games to get the mons but vgc is something I fell in love with and that was the price to pay to play it competitively.
That's totally fair and im glad you didn't have that issue, but there are also people even on this video who have mentioned they also got into mons this year and couldn't get certain mons because of this. It's not that hacking should come first, more level means of access should, but when people aren't able to access key mons without another $30-60 with some cores costing more (for example if I only owned violet since I got into mons last year, and I wanna use a duo of Calyrex-S + Raging Bolt I need $180 or someone willing to give up their Raging Bolt locked to Scarlet DLC or their Calyrex locked to SWSHs DLC (the Spectrier at least you have options). If I needed 1-2 games and a dlc that'd be one thing but like this hurdle isn't even for a full team, and it doesn't even account for the fact that if I wanted to tack on a hisui mon I'd also need PLA (credit where due this team specifically probably wouldn't see any be useful, but there's still some strong contenders like Ursaluna that would require this, and Ursaluna would be a semi decent pick on a team like this albeit maybe not optimal). The general point being tho you need a lot and for players only looking to do an event or two a year this might be the difference between them competing at all, especially if a mon they really wanted to use isn't accessible at all and has a steep exclusivity to obtaining it.
My ideal fix for this is a fairly normal Pokemon game with a simulator mode where you have to unlock stuff for it by just playing normally. So for example, say you want to use a Shiny lv 100 Pikachu with Electro Web and the only one in your file is a non shiny lv 25, the Battle Sim version of Pikachu you can make can only be at Lv 25, can't be shiny (unless you have another one that actually IS shiny) and it can't use Electro Web unless you have the TM on you. Same with held items. Your in game trainer needs to have the item to use it in the Battle Sim. I think this could be a good solution for keeping the spirit of the game intact...
simulator would be ideal but it unfortunately is so beyond what TPCi is willing to do, they had a working one with this concept in gen 4 and never returned to it
I think that VGC has been absolutely ruined by gen 9 as the metagame requires all the normal requirements (EV Train, IV Bred, Abilities, Finding Event Pokémon, and resetting for legends) and additionally it requires the best tera types (which is a very brutal grind at 2-3+ hours). Additionally, you need version exclusives and other games on your own switch (assuming you only need legends arc+gen8 and dlc+gen9 and dlc is $260!!). Although I do believe genning takes away from the viewer experience, S/V has an absolutely disgusting cycle for getting comp Pokémon and should absolutely be aloud. The only situation where I think genning should maybe not be aloud is in a Natural Dex format that costs under $100 dollars to have every Pokémon available for the player+trading.
If I could feasibly compete with 1-2 games of mons and getting a team in under 12 hours even for the first team I wouldn't really be pushing for genning, I think that'd be a fairly reasonable expectation. Repeat teams go quicker for sure but it's the initial barrier to entry that's an issue
There is a few Pkhex stuff that would be great for casuals. Like switching pokeball would be very well like feature that I'm surprised that Pokemon company hasn't come up with
Honestly I agree 1000% that'd be a great idea to have like at minimum as a feature if you get the dlc, like a clubhouse person for this would be so cool
@@oLivSama yeah it would be amazing to have your starter mon be in any pokeball you want. another thing that would be cool is some sort of tranfers for ribbons on your pokemon. like oras had contest ribbons on gen5 and 6 mon which you can't really get in any switch games but idk if they will ever bring back contest in future games
Ray Rizzo didn’t get disqualified in 2014 for his illegal cheated Pokémon in worlds. He got hired by TPCi instead of getting punished for cheating. Also more resources are advantage genning gives. If you play legit and you have a friend that plays legit and gives you exclusive Pokemon that are legit you got nothing to worry about. Shouldn’t be a problem. Also Enamorus wasn’t even used in VGC.
Putting that on screen was more to illustrate that people have used illegal mons for ages, DQs for these sorts of things are a fairly new thing though during the SV era
It's fair to not want genning, I even mention here because the rules state this is banned it shouldn't be a thing, I more wanted to explore what benefits the greater scene would achieve by allowing access to the ease generated pokemon as a whole, the title is how it is because it's the broadest way to frame it but I more wanted to discuss what the scene gains from allowing genned mons is all
I am not a competitive player and will never play in any pokemon tournament. However I like genning pokemon to play ladder/casually solely because i work a full time job and have a family with 2 kids. Saves me time and its fun even though I am absolutely trash at the game.
Even legit Pokemon are getting removed through hack check. If they can't create a valid hack check, may as well just allow hacked Pokemon since there is no difference between genned and legit Pokemon.
aren't most of those legit mons hacked mons their friends traded acting as if they were legit many years ago. My source is a famous guy's creselia . Do you have examples of legit mons being banned? without any proof I am inclined to believe most people who say their mons were legit are lying
i cant remenber the specific player off memory but i remember someone using one of the version exclusive paradoxes that werent dlc exclusive and they got dqd or a mon cut (i forget which) because they didnt own the other copy, when you can get them in the union circle still. fwiw i can only name that single case a lot of others were proved to have been lying or unknowing of the illegitimacy
I play pokemon since Pkmn Blue and I will NEVER invest hundreds of hours to just create 1 competitive team. Especially because it will be useless as soon a new regulation drops. It should be accessible for everybody immediately. There is no other game that gatekeeps competitive like this.
If I'm spending more than 12 hours for a full truly from scratch team (no previous mons, need to grind for full tms, item grind, money grind for ev items, etc) thats too much. Repeat teams usually get to like 4-12 hours depending on how much you recycle but like your first team shouldn't break 20 hours
I believe genning goes against all the values of the franchise. The slogan is "gotta catch them all" we're called "pokemon trainers" for a reason. Genning also disadvantages all the players following the rules by granting a time and practice advantage. My main Scarlet game has 670 hours on the cart and I'm able to create pokemon on the fly. I made my global challenge 3 team in a hour in game. Thats not counting the time in team builder and doing damage calculations for my ev spreads. If players fully establish their game's they wouldn't have a problem. Also on the accessibility issue, fans of the franchise shouldn't have a problem supporting the games they love by purchasing the games needed for competition. VGC players already own the games being that they needed the other games to compete in prior years. We cannot have honest competition if most of the player base feels entitled to breaking the rules.
While there are people who do own all the games not everyone has the financial means to do this, nor do they have the foresight a year in advance to predict the correct version for mons that are added 2 dlcs later as exclusives. If I owned only violet because I just got into the franchise last year, if I wanna use calyrex and Raging Bolt (a fairly realistic duo) or zacian and gouging fire (another decent pair) in reg g, I need to buy both Sword + DLC (I can skip this for the zacian + gouging example) and Scarlet + another SV DLC that I already probably bought for my violet, and just for those 2 teams I've now spent another $180 / $150 depending on the example I just got. In what world is that a reasonable expectation for a new player? I say this as someone who owns both versions of both games with their dlcs, who for tournaments will go and fully grind their teams, that isn't a reasonable expectation for everyone to just spend 2-3x my regional entry fee for just two of my pokemon, especially when these are prevalent pokemon and they're also duos that a lot of players will probably end up wanting to run a month from now for reg g. For players making teams not from scratch who have done the process its really not unbearable, but with the both time and monetary entry too high for a new player who am I to judge if someone actually did gen their team
On one hand, you're breaking regulation if you have anything that doesn't pass hack checks on your team. Ray Rizzo in 2014 deserved to be punished for what he did and wasn't. Like come on, you should fucking know better than to hack something in that's impossible or doesn't have the right flags. You can't hack and fuck it up and then cry when you get punished. But on the other, you shouldn't have to pay $300 to get all the Pokemon you need for a CHANCE.
I'm pretty much of this opinion, if it passes in game hack checks it should be fine but that also means in game hack checks have to be actually good and consistent with tournament hack checks. If hack checks in game ban me from genning a tornadus straight into SV without any previous game data and I also get a DQ I have to own it that was bad genning and it is also an impossibility. HOWEVER, if I gen an Urshifu from the proper location in SV, it has no illegal moves, ball, ot or sid, etc; why shouldn't that compete if it truly is indistinguishable. If I need tools that aren't officially used by TPCi to get the mon that mon should be allowed. For the record tho this stems from like you said monetary and accessibility issues. I did the math earlier in the comments, if your first game was violet and you wanna run raging bolt and caly shadow you need to buy two games and two new dlcs spending around $180, or even a core like zacian and gouging fire is still like $150 (the 2nd core will probably actually be a meta core too for Howl shenanigans). If we had better systems in place for hack checks and obtaining mons then I'd support a genning ban
@@oLivSama I'm 90% certain the people who got DQ'd at worlds were people who directly genned Legends Arceus evolutions and other legendaries like Heatran and Cresselia into SV and they got whacked because there were no Home flags. But I'm also almost certain we only had people get caught because they changed hack checks a few days before everyone got to Japan. I ain't condoning shit because I hate the idea of cheating or using hacks for any multiplayer competition but man, Japan don't fuck around. The hack checks were probably updated due to the laws in place there saying how modifying game data is illegal
@psirockin2251 fwiw that's probably why we have the harder checks but these checks have continued past japanese events. That's why they got the dqs tho people were dumb and didn't gen the mons properly
@@oLivSama And that be on the idiots for not genning their shit properly at this point. Like we know they brought the boot down, don't give them any reason to suspect your stuff and you're gonna be fine.
I never play vgc without rental codes. I love vgc but im 30 with a job and family. Id have time to do showdown and rental team codes OR grind base games for a team. I dont have time for both and Im not willing to uproot my life for it lol. Id 100% play some online cups and tournaments if tou just got to make a team for ladder like showdown. It seems like its exclusively a barrier of entry. Noob players who are the ones not grinding arent going to suddenly become competitive. Every good player knows how to get "perfect" competitive mons. Idk why mandating a time sink activity is a thing.
Fwiw a lot of online tours these days do allow rentals its solely in person events, even in game online official tours AFAIK allow them but don't hold me to that. Ik for the grassroots stuff like on limitlessvgc you're able to!
I think that, as someone who is trying to get into competitive pokemon, one of the biggest things for me that blocks me is the pokemon I can't get. EX: ursifu, I don't own sword and shield at all, and Its a lot easier to gen than to spend a ton of money for like one or two pokemon...
i'm glad this video was able to reach you then, there are so many people who try to dismiss cases like yours saying everyone who wants to play already owns basically every game, when that isn't the case like you had pointed out!
Pokemon go had enamorous so you could get it that way but meh I don’t think it’s that big a deal to gen mons for competitive but rules new as a They are are what we gotta deal with
You can't transfer go mons iirc unless you've seen them already but I might be wrong there, even if I'm wrong on that tho enams issue is the low IVs needed and go guarantees decent IVs for legends
I won't play the main games anymore because they continuously don't respect your time investment. Even after years of improvements in the games it's still a chore to make a legit team in-game. I've never genned / hacked anything but I can understand why it's so enticing.
I really think that the rule on not allowing genning exists for only two possible reasons : 1- make people have to spend more to play competitively 2- to protect the image of Pokemon games. The second reason is why I think they never made a official pokemon generator. It's to protect the "sanctity" of the IP. Even if that would be very cool to have, even if only for tournaments.
That's totally fair if it's the intention, and things like weekly encounters for big name mons and making it so players can change IVs more than just max is a step forward and still keep in line with the sanctity
You use something that wasn't contained through normal gameplay therefore it shouldn't be allowed zero tolerance uncompetitive competitive events for competitive equivalents
I think Pokemon needs to implement a specialized location or npc in to the next main game to be able to customize your team. Where the only requirement is having to catch the Pokemon. Then similar to showdown, it lets you adjust your stats to your liking. In terms of exclusives, since it looks like raids are main feature now, have them rotate exclusive Pokemon regularly. At the end of the day, it’s a fictional world so they can make up whatever bs for it to make sense so we can have more accessibility to all the content
That'd be a cool option, they could use it for like an in game tournament sorta thing and then you have people using those teams in tournaments after its locked for the event
When ever I had played pokemon, I am genning as I have been doing so since generation four. If I can not gen my team and make them as legitimately as possible, I am not wasting my time with the franchise. I such limited time and just want to get into the battle on cartridge and play.
Yeah, it would make it more accessible. I would love to try put competitive pokemon but the money investment is absurd, and I say this as a person who has put way too much money in Pokémon games
They should just not care at vgc events Anything that you can trade online should be legal at vgc events. Trading is a huge part of Pokemon so it should be allowed. Makes getting game explosive legends possible without being a huge money and time sink.
Personally in a perfect world they'd both make a better hack check in game and also just have that be the rule. If I can use it online in game that shouldn't be changing at a regional, but thatd require stronger in game checks for at least impossibilties
What should happen is gamefreak CUT THE BULLSHIT and let players edit a pokemon's everything in terms of competitive (moves, IVs, EVs, abilities, Hidden power (that should come back)...), quickly and without chores.
Idk if I'd go that far but it is an equalizer because we don't have good systems in place for teams. They're good compared to gen 6 but not what they could be. If for my first team I need a day to get good parents, money, Tera shards, etc it's too much if I'm spending a 24hr period for that grinding. Repeat teams go quicker the initial ones take a while tho
@@oLivSama I just like battling tbh. If I wanted to grind I would just do real work. Grinding has no place in games and any game which requires it to flesh out other mechanics by padding time just means whatever activity is being extended by grinding was never good in the first place and we need to artificially increase the time. Case in point: have you ever met a single person who said they like riding up and down the bike lane to hatch eggs, or maybe people who have tried for years to get a shiny? I just hack that shit in, play the game, and go on Smogon if I want to PVP. I've completely eliminated all grinding, so for me Pokemon is just pure fun in battling
I’ve once seen someone say “it shouldn’t be like a fighting game that takes several hours just to get to the character select screen”
That makes sense if it was strictly competitive, I think fwiw after you get through a base playthrough anything over 10hr for a standard team (catching, evs, ivs, abilities, Tera, etc) is absurd and rn that average is double. The game is still an rpg so with that in mind something that requires some form of training up mons makes sense with the spirit of the game
6:05 None of the Regis are in the S/V DLC. They are transfer only, so if he wants it, he WILL have to get both Sw/Sh and their DLC
I meant to say raging bolt there oops
if i want to get every pokemon sv exsclusie pokemon id be spending 240 dollars and im a kid without a job and i doubt my parents would let me because i want a digital past enti
Yea it's a lot of money and that's before you even consider regional fees
The fact that reg g got announced and shadow rider caleryx will be the best Mon and it’s locked behind a whole another game and it’s dlc
genning will only skyrocket because of this
I don’t mind playing the other games and capturing mons, although it’s a huge money and time sink, but I hate doing raids all day for Terra shards
Tera raids thankfully got easier if you own the dlc but that's also another $30 for convenience
@@oLivSama I’m not the most well versed as I recently started vgc, can you explain how the dlc helps me get more shards?
one of the dex rewards was a tera crystal charm and the indigo disk has drops in the overworld for shards in bunches of 10-20 vs 1-3 at a time
@@oLivSama but doesn’t the charm require a dex completion? That’d probably take longer to do than just grinding the raids straight up, unless you are gonna change terra for a ton of mons I’m not sure if the dex grind is worth the reward
@ZzsiegzZ if it's for a single regional probably but as someone who did pursue the charm it was worthwhile if I wanna play at events in 2025 like I'm planning to as of rn
Easy no, if you have to cheat to play a competitive game then you shouldn't play it. Cheat in causal offline all you want, but the second it effects other player's is when it's wrong especially when money is involved
As someone who has been playing pokemon since Yellow Version and 30 yrs old, here is my take….
I attempted to get into VGC back in B/W & X/Y but I was in college and team building was too difficult. I finally gave getting back into VGC a shot with S/V since team building has gotten “easier” but it’s still so time consuming. With getting items, vitamins, mochi, battle items, and getting a few version exclusives of DLC Pkmn from trusted friends or my older games, it still took forever getting the team together for Orlando Regionals ‘24 for my first regionals. Looking back, I had a great time even though stressful getting the team together and the experience overall learning so much more about pokemon and intricacies of double battles.
Outside of the time sink, I feel you lose out on the entire experience of being “A pokemon trainer” when you gen pokemon. Everyone doesn’t have hundreds of hours to sink, even I don’t but just enjoy the game for what it is. It definitely makes tournament play harder because I’m even having to switch up a few things for Reg G but that’s just the nature of the beast with how Pokemon flows nowadays in VGC.
That's a totally fair way to look at it tbh, there's always something charming about getting your own stuff and doing well with it!
The biggest problem are newer players who don’t have access to the amount of pokemon that someone who’s been playing for 30 years and has all the games since then. This means that the competitive scene is in practice more exclusive towards older players.
Casually playing the games throughout the last 5 years ive obtained everything i needed. How hard could it be?
its actually pretty difficult still; the bigger issues come from players who can't afford every title of the games or people who keep up with the trading aspect these games were built around decades ago and lost access to key pokemon. not to say that everyone has these same issues but the fact that core pillars of the franchise are now being encouraged AGAINST by tour judges is a pretty telling sign of the state of these games. that tbf is because of hack checks, but the hacking wouldn't be this bad if better systems were in place, and it becomes a situation of the chicken and the egg for if hacking would be necessary if a good system to obtain mons was in place to begin with, and if people are obtaining mons anyway right now why fix the system's biggest issues since it's working well enough anyways.
@@oLivSama people hack because they don't feel like grinding for 0 speed iv's and stuff like that. Pathetic but understandable. But hacking for Pokemons? What pokemon is so unobtainable, given that mythicals are not legal?
And I don't get the argument of not playing the game because you can't afford it. Well shit son, you have to buy stuff, just like the old days.
In my opinion genning is a good thing for the competitive scene, it helps people with little free time but want to play competitive. But genning is against the rules and it should be enforced. Also with the 0 IV Pokémon thing i forgot where i herd this originally but i herd of someone talking about a new item the Rusty Bottle Cap, same as a bottle cap but sets the iv of the stat to 0, i think this solution is more in the spirit of Pokémon .
I think it was world champ difference guy Wolfey
Well instead of a whole new item, y not just modify the bottle cap so that when u use it, u can decide any number from
0-31 to be the IV for the chosen stat. Just in case u needed specific IVs for a very niche strategy and not just 0 vs 31 all the time.
Also yes I think it's fair to disqualify players who genned but *ONLY because it's against the rules* and nothing else.
I just wish genning was actually legal so that anyone can just create a team and instantly start playing.
yea pretty much my thoughts asw, theres a lot of positives it offers and at least theyre enforcing the rule, but the rule against it is bad imo for the growth
current in my 2nd week of reseting for a good bloodmoon ursaluna, genning is a time a saver
It truly is the greatest time saver but there's so many other benefits asw
Yeah on cart this is a non issue with rental teams. I also have a full time job and im able to make teams for every regulation no problem, training your Pokemon is kinda the point anyway. But for tournament players it is tough. I do think there should be an item that drops ivs to 0 in game. I think Pokemon has done a good job adding in things to help customize your pokemon properly and rental is an amazing resource that probably should be available in tournaments
its definitely not hard to get teams its more hard to get them when the format usually adapts so quickly; but i agree its mostly a tournament issue and rentals would help a lot
I play comp casually but I don’t have time to grind for a team because of work and family. Either play on showdown or I Pkhex a team
Totally fair I get why!
I am a competitive Pokemon player and I am constantly using different rental teams, but then when I go to tournaments I end up doing real bad. I think that it would be very good if #PlayPokémon made it so you could use rental teams because ain't no way some one is gonna spend 20+ hours building a Pokemon team just for them to not qualify for the next stage. (btw I think it's funny that Ray Rizzo got disqualified from the 2014 Worlds I don't think he cheated I think they were scared he would win again.
Fwiw afaik ray had a dream ball aegislash which undeniably is illegal, I agree tho rentals are the wave!
I think a different mode with any Pokemon you can choose that’s available without any need to catch or train like with Pokemon showdown battle simulator where it’s for training with Pokemon battles instead of 24 hours of RNG manipulation, IV training, and ev training.
Sadly I don't think that'll happen as ideal as it'd be, there needs to be a middle ground tho
Aren't we Pokemon trainers, catch them my test train them is cause it's in the Pokemon theme
See, this topic can be discussed without getting all the hate in the world from cheaters and hackers. It's just that some individuals (only Verlisify) are really eager to insult every person possible (and their followers) while discussing the issues. That's why he's under the impression that people don't want to follow rules and are money-driven assholes.
There's definitely a reasonable way to discuss the topic, if there wasn't a need for a better system genning wouldn't exist!
Hey, when you have to hack a game to get mons it is never a good thing in competition. In game ladder is one but regionals, pc,and mss is another.
It's an issue with accessibility for new players, I get my stuff from the ground up but knowing how that process can go for a newer player I wouldn't exactly blame someone for doing it either
@oLivSama I don't believe that cause I joined vgc at Scarlet and Violet. Sure I had to go buy the older games to get the mons but vgc is something I fell in love with and that was the price to pay to play it competitively.
That's totally fair and im glad you didn't have that issue, but there are also people even on this video who have mentioned they also got into mons this year and couldn't get certain mons because of this. It's not that hacking should come first, more level means of access should, but when people aren't able to access key mons without another $30-60 with some cores costing more (for example if I only owned violet since I got into mons last year, and I wanna use a duo of Calyrex-S + Raging Bolt I need $180 or someone willing to give up their Raging Bolt locked to Scarlet DLC or their Calyrex locked to SWSHs DLC (the Spectrier at least you have options). If I needed 1-2 games and a dlc that'd be one thing but like this hurdle isn't even for a full team, and it doesn't even account for the fact that if I wanted to tack on a hisui mon I'd also need PLA (credit where due this team specifically probably wouldn't see any be useful, but there's still some strong contenders like Ursaluna that would require this, and Ursaluna would be a semi decent pick on a team like this albeit maybe not optimal). The general point being tho you need a lot and for players only looking to do an event or two a year this might be the difference between them competing at all, especially if a mon they really wanted to use isn't accessible at all and has a steep exclusivity to obtaining it.
My ideal fix for this is a fairly normal Pokemon game with a simulator mode where you have to unlock stuff for it by just playing normally. So for example, say you want to use a Shiny lv 100 Pikachu with Electro Web and the only one in your file is a non shiny lv 25, the Battle Sim version of Pikachu you can make can only be at Lv 25, can't be shiny (unless you have another one that actually IS shiny) and it can't use Electro Web unless you have the TM on you. Same with held items. Your in game trainer needs to have the item to use it in the Battle Sim. I think this could be a good solution for keeping the spirit of the game intact...
simulator would be ideal but it unfortunately is so beyond what TPCi is willing to do, they had a working one with this concept in gen 4 and never returned to it
If we could just breed legendaries/mythicals with ditto. This wouldn't so much of a problem.
preach!!!
Have a great day Liv! I believe hacking would balance out competition since we use you as a cheat code anyway 😈
Exactly, glad you get it
Exactly why I love showdown battles more than in game battles! Too much time and resource waste for one team!
totally understandable its a lot
I think that VGC has been absolutely ruined by gen 9 as the metagame requires all the normal requirements (EV Train, IV Bred, Abilities, Finding Event Pokémon, and resetting for legends) and additionally it requires the best tera types (which is a very brutal grind at 2-3+ hours). Additionally, you need version exclusives and other games on your own switch (assuming you only need legends arc+gen8 and dlc+gen9 and dlc is $260!!). Although I do believe genning takes away from the viewer experience, S/V has an absolutely disgusting cycle for getting comp Pokémon and should absolutely be aloud.
The only situation where I think genning should maybe not be aloud is in a Natural Dex format that costs under $100 dollars to have every Pokémon available for the player+trading.
If I could feasibly compete with 1-2 games of mons and getting a team in under 12 hours even for the first team I wouldn't really be pushing for genning, I think that'd be a fairly reasonable expectation. Repeat teams go quicker for sure but it's the initial barrier to entry that's an issue
Ended up by a chance in this video. Liking and commenting to help it grow.
Thank you so much for the support, hope you continue enjoying the content!!!
There is a few Pkhex stuff that would be great for casuals.
Like switching pokeball would be very well like feature that I'm surprised that Pokemon company hasn't come up with
Honestly I agree 1000% that'd be a great idea to have like at minimum as a feature if you get the dlc, like a clubhouse person for this would be so cool
@@oLivSama yeah it would be amazing to have your starter mon be in any pokeball you want. another thing that would be cool is some sort of tranfers for ribbons on your pokemon. like oras had contest ribbons on gen5 and 6 mon which you can't really get in any switch games but idk if they will ever bring back contest in future games
Ray Rizzo didn’t get disqualified in 2014 for his illegal cheated Pokémon in worlds. He got hired by TPCi instead of getting punished for cheating. Also more resources are advantage genning gives. If you play legit and you have a friend that plays legit and gives you exclusive Pokemon that are legit you got nothing to worry about. Shouldn’t be a problem. Also Enamorus wasn’t even used in VGC.
Putting that on screen was more to illustrate that people have used illegal mons for ages, DQs for these sorts of things are a fairly new thing though during the SV era
"Should cheating be allo-"
No. Next.
It's fair to not want genning, I even mention here because the rules state this is banned it shouldn't be a thing, I more wanted to explore what benefits the greater scene would achieve by allowing access to the ease generated pokemon as a whole, the title is how it is because it's the broadest way to frame it but I more wanted to discuss what the scene gains from allowing genned mons is all
ye , spending 100s of hrs for a team is so much better , and even spending another 100 hrs cuz meta changed is so amazing
I am not a competitive player and will never play in any pokemon tournament. However I like genning pokemon to play ladder/casually solely because i work a full time job and have a family with 2 kids. Saves me time and its fun even though I am absolutely trash at the game.
Even legit Pokemon are getting removed through hack check. If they can't create a valid hack check, may as well just allow hacked Pokemon since there is no difference between genned and legit Pokemon.
Fwiw that's few and far between but yea it's absurd that people who even have like proof of obtaining their own mons are getting dqd
aren't most of those legit mons hacked mons their friends traded acting as if they were legit many years ago. My source is a famous guy's creselia . Do you have examples of legit mons being banned? without any proof I am inclined to believe most people who say their mons were legit are lying
i cant remenber the specific player off memory but i remember someone using one of the version exclusive paradoxes that werent dlc exclusive and they got dqd or a mon cut (i forget which) because they didnt own the other copy, when you can get them in the union circle still. fwiw i can only name that single case a lot of others were proved to have been lying or unknowing of the illegitimacy
I play pokemon since Pkmn Blue and I will NEVER invest hundreds of hours to just create 1 competitive team. Especially because it will be useless as soon a new regulation drops. It should be accessible for everybody immediately. There is no other game that gatekeeps competitive like this.
If I'm spending more than 12 hours for a full truly from scratch team (no previous mons, need to grind for full tms, item grind, money grind for ev items, etc) thats too much. Repeat teams usually get to like 4-12 hours depending on how much you recycle but like your first team shouldn't break 20 hours
I believe genning goes against all the values of the franchise. The slogan is "gotta catch them all" we're called "pokemon trainers" for a reason. Genning also disadvantages all the players following the rules by granting a time and practice advantage. My main Scarlet game has 670 hours on the cart and I'm able to create pokemon on the fly. I made my global challenge 3 team in a hour in game. Thats not counting the time in team builder and doing damage calculations for my ev spreads. If players fully establish their game's they wouldn't have a problem. Also on the accessibility issue, fans of the franchise shouldn't have a problem supporting the games they love by purchasing the games needed for competition. VGC players already own the games being that they needed the other games to compete in prior years. We cannot have honest competition if most of the player base feels entitled to breaking the rules.
While there are people who do own all the games not everyone has the financial means to do this, nor do they have the foresight a year in advance to predict the correct version for mons that are added 2 dlcs later as exclusives. If I owned only violet because I just got into the franchise last year, if I wanna use calyrex and Raging Bolt (a fairly realistic duo) or zacian and gouging fire (another decent pair) in reg g, I need to buy both Sword + DLC (I can skip this for the zacian + gouging example) and Scarlet + another SV DLC that I already probably bought for my violet, and just for those 2 teams I've now spent another $180 / $150 depending on the example I just got. In what world is that a reasonable expectation for a new player? I say this as someone who owns both versions of both games with their dlcs, who for tournaments will go and fully grind their teams, that isn't a reasonable expectation for everyone to just spend 2-3x my regional entry fee for just two of my pokemon, especially when these are prevalent pokemon and they're also duos that a lot of players will probably end up wanting to run a month from now for reg g. For players making teams not from scratch who have done the process its really not unbearable, but with the both time and monetary entry too high for a new player who am I to judge if someone actually did gen their team
On one hand, you're breaking regulation if you have anything that doesn't pass hack checks on your team. Ray Rizzo in 2014 deserved to be punished for what he did and wasn't. Like come on, you should fucking know better than to hack something in that's impossible or doesn't have the right flags. You can't hack and fuck it up and then cry when you get punished.
But on the other, you shouldn't have to pay $300 to get all the Pokemon you need for a CHANCE.
I'm pretty much of this opinion, if it passes in game hack checks it should be fine but that also means in game hack checks have to be actually good and consistent with tournament hack checks. If hack checks in game ban me from genning a tornadus straight into SV without any previous game data and I also get a DQ I have to own it that was bad genning and it is also an impossibility. HOWEVER, if I gen an Urshifu from the proper location in SV, it has no illegal moves, ball, ot or sid, etc; why shouldn't that compete if it truly is indistinguishable. If I need tools that aren't officially used by TPCi to get the mon that mon should be allowed.
For the record tho this stems from like you said monetary and accessibility issues. I did the math earlier in the comments, if your first game was violet and you wanna run raging bolt and caly shadow you need to buy two games and two new dlcs spending around $180, or even a core like zacian and gouging fire is still like $150 (the 2nd core will probably actually be a meta core too for Howl shenanigans). If we had better systems in place for hack checks and obtaining mons then I'd support a genning ban
@@oLivSama I'm 90% certain the people who got DQ'd at worlds were people who directly genned Legends Arceus evolutions and other legendaries like Heatran and Cresselia into SV and they got whacked because there were no Home flags. But I'm also almost certain we only had people get caught because they changed hack checks a few days before everyone got to Japan.
I ain't condoning shit because I hate the idea of cheating or using hacks for any multiplayer competition but man, Japan don't fuck around. The hack checks were probably updated due to the laws in place there saying how modifying game data is illegal
@psirockin2251 fwiw that's probably why we have the harder checks but these checks have continued past japanese events. That's why they got the dqs tho people were dumb and didn't gen the mons properly
@@oLivSama And that be on the idiots for not genning their shit properly at this point. Like we know they brought the boot down, don't give them any reason to suspect your stuff and you're gonna be fine.
totally fair
I never play vgc without rental codes. I love vgc but im 30 with a job and family. Id have time to do showdown and rental team codes OR grind base games for a team. I dont have time for both and Im not willing to uproot my life for it lol. Id 100% play some online cups and tournaments if tou just got to make a team for ladder like showdown. It seems like its exclusively a barrier of entry. Noob players who are the ones not grinding arent going to suddenly become competitive. Every good player knows how to get "perfect" competitive mons. Idk why mandating a time sink activity is a thing.
Fwiw a lot of online tours these days do allow rentals its solely in person events, even in game online official tours AFAIK allow them but don't hold me to that. Ik for the grassroots stuff like on limitlessvgc you're able to!
I think that, as someone who is trying to get into competitive pokemon, one of the biggest things for me that blocks me is the pokemon I can't get. EX: ursifu, I don't own sword and shield at all, and Its a lot easier to gen than to spend a ton of money for like one or two pokemon...
i'm glad this video was able to reach you then, there are so many people who try to dismiss cases like yours saying everyone who wants to play already owns basically every game, when that isn't the case like you had pointed out!
Pokemon go had enamorous so you could get it that way but meh I don’t think it’s that big a deal to gen mons for competitive but rules new as a
They are are what we gotta deal with
You can't transfer go mons iirc unless you've seen them already but I might be wrong there, even if I'm wrong on that tho enams issue is the low IVs needed and go guarantees decent IVs for legends
@@oLivSama ahh good catch that’s lame I have most of the games so I didn’t even realize it
I won't play the main games anymore because they continuously don't respect your time investment.
Even after years of improvements in the games it's still a chore to make a legit team in-game. I've never genned / hacked anything but I can understand why it's so enticing.
Totally get the respecting your time aspect I shouldn't need a 24hr grind for each unique team
I really think that the rule on not allowing genning exists for only two possible reasons :
1- make people have to spend more to play competitively
2- to protect the image of Pokemon games.
The second reason is why I think they never made a official pokemon generator. It's to protect the "sanctity" of the IP. Even if that would be very cool to have, even if only for tournaments.
That's totally fair if it's the intention, and things like weekly encounters for big name mons and making it so players can change IVs more than just max is a step forward and still keep in line with the sanctity
It exists because gamefreak is a pile of shit.
You use something that wasn't contained through normal gameplay therefore it shouldn't be allowed zero tolerance uncompetitive competitive events for competitive equivalents
I think Pokemon needs to implement a specialized location or npc in to the next main game to be able to customize your team. Where the only requirement is having to catch the Pokemon. Then similar to showdown, it lets you adjust your stats to your liking. In terms of exclusives, since it looks like raids are main feature now, have them rotate exclusive Pokemon regularly. At the end of the day, it’s a fictional world so they can make up whatever bs for it to make sense so we can have more accessibility to all the content
That'd be a cool option, they could use it for like an in game tournament sorta thing and then you have people using those teams in tournaments after its locked for the event
No, grow up and grind
understandable take just wanted to discuss the topic as a whole!
No
Totally fair stance to have!
Poekmon should just stop mesding around and make a team builder in game
thatd be ideal i doubt it happens tho!
hey guys, tyler johnson here
Hi Tyler Johnson!
I find it fun tbh. Spending time on pokemon is fun
When ever I had played pokemon, I am genning as I have been doing so since generation four. If I can not gen my team and make them as legitimately as possible, I am not wasting my time with the franchise. I such limited time and just want to get into the battle on cartridge and play.
totally fair perspective!
Yeah, it would make it more accessible. I would love to try put competitive pokemon but the money investment is absurd, and I say this as a person who has put way too much money in Pokémon games
It's a lot for sure especially with regionals costing the same as a game now
Yes, it should, in short
Preach!!
They should just not care at vgc events
Anything that you can trade online should be legal at vgc events.
Trading is a huge part of Pokemon so it should be allowed. Makes getting game explosive legends possible without being a huge money and time sink.
Personally in a perfect world they'd both make a better hack check in game and also just have that be the rule. If I can use it online in game that shouldn't be changing at a regional, but thatd require stronger in game checks for at least impossibilties
What should happen is gamefreak CUT THE BULLSHIT and let players edit a pokemon's everything in terms of competitive (moves, IVs, EVs, abilities, Hidden power (that should come back)...), quickly and without chores.
Preach
yes
i have no problem with genning some people have jobs and dont have all day to hatch eggs for specific ivs or reset for hours for other specific stats
Fwiw when you get stuff like a good Ditto the process time goes down a lot but still a lot of time
In my opinion, it should be allowed but only to skip the painful training and not to give Pokémon illegal moves or Abilities
Pretty much my stance asw
It should be allowed because cheating is based, especially in pokemon
Idk if I'd go that far but it is an equalizer because we don't have good systems in place for teams. They're good compared to gen 6 but not what they could be. If for my first team I need a day to get good parents, money, Tera shards, etc it's too much if I'm spending a 24hr period for that grinding. Repeat teams go quicker the initial ones take a while tho
@@oLivSama I just like battling tbh. If I wanted to grind I would just do real work. Grinding has no place in games and any game which requires it to flesh out other mechanics by padding time just means whatever activity is being extended by grinding was never good in the first place and we need to artificially increase the time.
Case in point: have you ever met a single person who said they like riding up and down the bike lane to hatch eggs, or maybe people who have tried for years to get a shiny? I just hack that shit in, play the game, and go on Smogon if I want to PVP. I've completely eliminated all grinding, so for me Pokemon is just pure fun in battling
That's a fair pov to have at least
Version exclusivity is really ruining VGC the pay sink is insane
They should just make all Pokémon available in team building
i agree to a T
The games should just have something like Pokegen built in. There’s really no argument against allowing generated Pokémon.