It's easy to feel alone as a rational human in a world so divorced from reality. Thank science the internet can connect all of us who don't believe in Bronze Age fairy tales.
What gets me is the hypocrisy of people that no matter what choice you make, they can claim how wrong or bad you are. My husband and I didn’t have kids until we were “old”. 40-42-45 years old. We have three amazing children. The same prolife people say we were wrong to have children because what if we die! Oh so should I have aborted? No, I was actually told I should have given up my children to younger people. So I’m good enough to give birth but not raise my children because I could die? None of us is promised a tomorrow. We just had a mother of 4 die in a car crash and she was 32.
The very minute that people are forced to stand for a flag or pledge allegience, is the same precise minute that those symbols cease to represent freedom. Those who claim to be patriots who are all about freedom are simply not. Their lack of self-awareness is disturbing.
“If a believer demands that I, as a nonbeliever, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect, but for my submission.” ~ Flemming Rose One of my favorite quotes.
The childless adult is interesting. I have been in a long relationship and I took necessary actions to keep us from having kids . Every day, we appreciate our freedom and know that it was the right choice.
Same here. Neither my wife nor I wanted children and I was “fixed” at a fairly early age. We are now in our fifties and have never regretted our choice for a single second.
Regarding kids; I'm childless by choice and, if the doctors would let me, I'd have my tubes tied (I'm 35). I don't hate kids, I have a nephew that I would do anything for and there are some amazing kids in the karate class that I attend. However, it really passes me off when kids are allowed to run around uncontrolled and screaming yet the parents don't attempt to calm them down, it feels like they're not respecting other people or maybe belive that being a parent gives them some sort of special status. If your kid wants to play noisy games give him/her some earphones, if your kid is in a restaurant they need to behave themselves not only for the respect of other diners but for safety- I used to be a waitress and a kid nearly ran in to me while I was carrying skillets but I quickly dodged and burned my arm in the process. I don't hate children, I hate parents who can't be arsed to control their kids. I understand that kids scream and fuss but in return please understand that it's not fair on others either, I have autism and children screaming causes physical and overwhelming pain, not just annoyance but pain to the point where I feel physically sick which triggers panic attacks/meltdown. I can't always block that noise out, if I'm in a waiting room for example, so please take your kids outside or give them earphones or at least try and calm them down. Just be considerate of others, please.
What boggles my mind is that humans have the capacity to do wondrous, glorious things. From the Louvre to the James Webb space telescope, the potential ingenuity and creativity of the human species is a a phenomena to be awed by, and proud of. BUT then we have also created imminent nuclear annihilation of everything, perpetual warfare, and environmental degradation and disrespect beyond comprehension. It seems evident to most that the bad stuff is increasingly overwhelming the good stuff. Why is that? It seems like the choice is a no-brainer, yet we as a species do otherwise,
I've come to accept that I won't get married, have kids, own a home, or retire. Just killing time till time kills me is my state of mind currently. I accept that I'm born into the wrong time, country, race (I'm black), and none religion. Not sad as happiness is not guaranteed nor deserved, but I accept it for what it is. I've given up any hope of beating the theocrats, the corporations, etc and I just focus on living in the moment and controlling what I can.
People think I’m making a dark joke when I say my retirement plan is a bullet to the brain but that’s how bleak things are when you can’t afford to have a family, a house, or any sort of nest egg. You’re always one tragedy away from losing the little bit you’ve got.
I understand, somewhat, how you feel. I'm white but I was born into a poor family so growing up without much was tough. I would just say that life can be hard but you just have to try to make your life better. Love the people you love and try to accept that you can't love everyone. I live by the serenity prayer "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference." I would leave out the god part because I'm an atheist. I also like the old adage "Live in the moment, remember the past and plan for the future." You can't change the past and the future isn't here yet.
@@MoonCakeisaLie Yeah, I think retirement is a dream if I remain in the US so it's either go abroad or stay here and end up paying 1200 a month to rent a 1 bedroom in 2040 (I hope I don't live that long if I'm still in the US)
I find my simple loner life to be satisfying. I would have made an excellent fat-assed house cat. I am lucky to find pleasure in simple things; a cup of coffee, a walk in blooming spring, to fly fish for hatchery trout, or enjoy a poignant film like "Cool Hand Luke" or Harry Dean Stanton's "Lucky." I consider myself to be lucky, but for some reason, I have never felt much desire to reproduce nor fuck a bunch of different women. I enjoy my freedom, and while fucking can be fun, is so overrated. Now I am old (67), and I'm okay.
@@Maxrepfitgmlots of people have to move countries to find a better life. You may have assumed that a better life was something immigrants to America were getting and that life could not possibly be better elsewhere, that is certainty America’s mythology, but most other places in the developed world are better places on a large number of metrics. A better life is not arrived at by convincing oneself of a series of empty platitudes, which once applied to some people some of the time, but by demanding of your government that it fix problems, deliver free universal healthcare, safe streets, equal justice. Any place where the government is actually working on those problems in earnest will be a better place than the current America because there is some hope of a brighter future rather than being told that any problems are just what you must live with to have such an awesome constitution written centuries ago for long dead Americans. When apartheid ended in South Africa, the new democratic government wrote a new constitution which was designed for all South Africans. This included protections for LGBTQ+, something America has yet to do 35 years on. America needs to get rid of its apartheid first of course. Baby steps.
When I get to the end of my rope with being pissed, I go watch some zombie movies and play like the zombies are all republican politicians. I feel much better then. LOL
The world at large doesn't scare me nearly as much as the people that I personally know and care about. To see the world through a different lens than before and see how closed minded they are and how conditional their affection is, and to see so many of them embrace Qanon theories and Christian Nationalism more and more as time goes on. I've loved and respected some of these people all of my life, and now I've moved in one direction and they've mostly gone off the deep end in the other direction. I'm over here not wanting to let them go, because my love isn't conditional, but being crushed by their hateful thoughts and actions, and knowing that if they knew what I was, their pretense of caring would melt away and I'd become a target.
I have absolutely never ever wanted children. I’m 52 now and I even see more I definitely did the right thing not having kids. Having lots of kids is also part of the fundamentalists mentality. It’s definitely rooted in religion. In the biblical times reproduction was critical for help on the farms and for soldiers in the wars. Basically that’s why they did it. Humans have children for basically selfish reasons. The kids never get a say if they get bought into the world
While I feel the weight of the world like everyone else, I do believe that we live in the best time in human history. We got a lot of things that need fixing. But I’m hopeful.
Riki energy must be sent in all natural packaging and the slowest and least high-tech method of delivery you can possibly find and you have to use physical stamps on the package.
My husband and I both have no desire to have kids, which makes life easier for a gay couple; if we wanted kids, there'd be no shortage of people throwing obstacles in our way. You mentioned how people with children have less ability to be spontaneous in their plans. This reminded me of a time when my late father was holding someone else's baby, and he jokingly (maybe only half so) called the baby a "bungle of joy"! Maybe he wanted the spontaneity of his youth back.
Take A Moment Relax You are on your way to rare places, my friends I have PTSD I was in the RAF for 28yrs Anti-god in my foxhole 24/7 in a care home at 64yrs old. People are okay No gods required 😂🎉x
I used to be a very optimistic person, now it's the opposite. I have two kids who are teenagers I fake optimism only to not bum them out about the future even though they definitely see right through me.
@@therewillbecatswithgwenhwyfar Observing the world around me factored into my decision to not have any children as well. I also work in an office with 6 other young professionals between 25 and 35, all of us with at least one college level STEM degree and all of us are married or have a long term significant other. The 7 of us have a combined grand total of 1 child, who was only born 6 months ago.
@@therewillbecatswithgwenhwyfar But of course, you have to face the possibility that the world is doomed precisely *because* we're losing population and not reproducing at replacement levels. Then having children would be exactly what we need to do to save the world.
@@justinhart2831 except that our particular medical history means that, even if my children are a force for good in the world, which I already believe they are, of course, I still don’t want my children or grandchildren suffering. I would not be mad if I found out an asteroid was going to take us all out at the same time, so we just all vaporized, I would be fine with that. My only hesitation in crossing the veil between the world is because my kids have needs that make me feel like I can never die because they’re going to always need me. I will 100% support what they choose but I really hope they don’t have kids. I know it’s really sad that my cynicism is so thick but we seem to have never evolved, considering that we are literally having the same problems as we were having in ancient Greece.
I have no respect for most politicians of either stripe. To specifically vilify Republicans (as deserving as it is) is disingenuous. Our political "class" is a species unto themselves whose divisions are largely superficial or imaginary. The apparent rivalry and partisanship between them is as much a matter of "theatrics" as it is substance. Collectively both parties have grabbed the American people by the nose and they are leading them in any direction that is beneficial to their collective oligarchic interests. Democracy? What's that?
I've often found myself in the same boat as Seth, when it comes to "not having children". I'm around his age. No children. The difference is,...no wife, either. It can be a lonely life. And I wonder what my future will hold when usually the children often care for their elderly parents. What will that time in my life be like? And as for kids,...and the woman who called about "people not wanting her children around when in a restaurant",...If you take your children out, they _should_ behave respectfully. _Teach_ them manners and how to act in public. If you let your kids run wild, it is an indicator of potential bad parenting. If your kids behave, you'll not have people saying anything to you.
On the "would you believe if the god were proven"? Seth answered it pretty well. If such an entity were proven to be real, I'd still have to have a long conversation with it to see what it is actually all about....not "what religions claimed about it thousands of years ago".
Thinking Atheist, Seth, wow, this, your venting, hit home. As for Manuella, wow I feel bad for her. I've only ever seen a very few people say anything to a parent even when warranted! Oh and I'm also childless by choice. Well, and I was very lucky, apparently born barren! Though I was a pretty good step parent. But not nearly as burdensome as full parenthood. Great call and damn, I wish I could see you in Phoenix since I'm in Kingman! No money either. Plus, I didn't even know it was coming. But I'd have loved to attend that one, or one of the many others, to meet sort of my heroes! And I too wish we could go back to the original motto! OK I'm acting like I'm on line. Lol. Love you! 👍💙💖🥰✌
I wish gun culture wasn't so wrapped up in Christian identity. I'm as much an Atheist as you can get but I'm a big 2A absolutist, former infantry Marine. I just wish we didn't automatically discuss Christian wackyness with the countries founding stance on firearms, which is really just a guarantee that an individual has a right to be their own first responder to crisis and capable of defending yourself with the best tools for the job. Unfortunate that mindset has been hijacked by the religious right.
I do enjoy your videos Seth. I enjoy watching you and others in the religion debates, and I did enjoy Paul Harvey back in the day. I think you are a great one to carry on the tradition.
Joseph - there is no problem with being an angry atheist, or angry in general - it only becomes a problem when you do one of two things - 1) You let the anger consume you or 2) You let the anger out on those who do not deserve it.
I'm an autistic atheist, and I've never had a "spiritual" experience, and it's honestly never crossed my mind to suspect a causal relationship there. From my point of view most people just copy/paste their opinions but I'd been forced to form my own. Of course 1) I was raised attending boring church (though the thought of 6-year old me surrounded by people jumping around and yelling gibberish is terrifying), and 2) most of the other autistic people I've met (that I knew of) have been very religious. I have trouble empathizing with that, in fact.
I think I may be autistic (no diagnosis), 74 and no marriage or children. I was quite pleased with our first church preacher (a standard teacher) but was repelled by his replacement (a Hell and Brimstone pastor). Baptist churches split. But maybe that would explain some of it.
@@kathryngeeslin9509 I suppose hell-terrors probably are strong emotional experiences (I wasn't raised in a hell-believing church). I did listen to a lot of harsh, you're-not-Christianing-enough preachers a bit later in childhood, but I was already sitting there thinking "what a jerk". I don't think the preaching thing ever worked on me, to be honest.
The current theory is the Heat Death of the Universe. Thor and Odin are the true prophets because ice giants and not hellfire. In short the expansion will continue till the subatomic particles decay into nothing... pure energy radiation something.... This is more likely a hypothesis. Isaac Arthur SFIA Civilizations at the end of times series is gold.
In my experience, if you are an evangelical Christian who eventually becomes unconvinced of the reality and truthfulness of Christianity, you will become an evangelical atheist and try your best to de-convert everyone you bump into. I went that route, and it took over a decade to develop a live-and-let-live attitude.
Sad is the default emotion for us humans. Sad because we know at some level that we will end someday. That who we think we are will at some time no longer exist. To lose me is a sad thought. All else is diversion. But, dwelling on the loss, the sadness is not healthy.
Seth, I kind of think there is a god (some kind of conscious creator/engineer), I just think he/she/it/they are a dick. What does that make me, maybe like the Gnostics?
I definitely understand the feeling of hopelessness. And for me at least, futility. In addition to the increasing madness in the world many things are coming apart around me personally. I hope things improve for all of us.
I'm kinda there too, sad about the state of the world, about the percentage of humanity that still thinks their religion is the only true one and uses it to justify their ignorance and hate. Hate should be earned by condemnable actions, not some harmless aspect of a person's genetic makeup
Its getting to the point where ppl will not have kids bcuz the world is so messed up with more and more resources drying up that they will suffer in the future.
For some of the commenters here You need to ask yourself The question what do I do for fun. If that is a little difficult to answer You may need treatment. I know I did.
I have also had the BLUES. It's PTSD from life Seth. LIFE AS AMERICANS IN THE YEAR 2023. After Trump and Covid. All the fear and hate could only do one thing. Make us SAD. 😢 Thank you for this episode. You're not alone. You've always helped ME feel less lonely in this deconverting life long journey. Also Ive become more PROGRESSIVE the LESS I believe in ANY Christian doctrine. I think you perhaps feel the same.
I'm in total agreement with your comment Laura as I've been feeling the same. Thankfully, I've become more progressive also since leaving the religion I was with. Left the Catholic church four years ago and have not looked back.
Many "progressive" ideas aren't actually progressive and send us backwards like transgenderism. Perhaps maybe not be a sheep to either political party and question everything, including atheism.
I feel hopeless for the future of my 14 year old son. He was an outdoor social kid until covid hit. We lived in California, so going out meant human contact. So we didn't. He got lost in playing online video games. Now, we live in rural Minnesota. So, when he's not at school, he's on the Playstation. With the way the world and society are, I just let him go at it all he wants.
You live in a rural area and stay inside? Not only are you ruining his eyes and health, you are not doing his immune system any favors. Have you had his Vitamin D checked? Why don't you buy him some tools hand teach him to build things? (do it with him, and you don't need expensive tools to do it). Be creative and get him OUTDOORS.
@Teija P. True. He has, actually. He has a few friends from when we lived in California and a few others he routinely plays with. I overhear them playing and having a great time.
There are both domestic and international institutions hocking what I would term post-reality. It comes from multiple epistemic mechanisms through liberal and conservative ideological lenses. What am I saying, an attempt to destabilize the mindset and centering of thought by pushing provocations onto the population in not just general, but targeting academic and development environments. A push back on this ill thought out positing of this quasi-perceptive liberation. The best I can do is to describe it using a movie production analogy. When making a movie, or a documentary, the writer and director decided to render the product as a complete CGI-based AI interpretation of the original script. The end product looks more like a Star Wars movie than the story of growing up in Appalachia. Now imagine that you know see the world more like a pseudo-scifi and not as how to live a life in a rural eastern state such as West Virginia. Walking into the bar "Buck's Drops" you look around and claim that the Whookie in the corner was giving you dirty looks with his fourth eye.
28:04 you'll never have to listen to the doctor tell you that your flesh and blood has a lifelong chronic illness that potentially could derail their entire life. There's a lot of really beautiful moments in relationships, but there's also a lot of risk and a lot of pain.
30:36 my youngest is also autistic and passes most of the time as neurotypical. They have never been interested in religion or as far as I know any spirituality. They are definitely an atheist.
48:14 oh my gosh I just experienced this recently because I am not an expert but I am fairly reasonably versed in trans culture and so I often have people who don't understand what that's all about who will message me so they can ask me questions rather than asking an actual trans person which I feel like it's totally fair. But she stated a couple of things where the first word of the sentence was, "I just believe…" And so I would challenge that and say OK where are you getting that data, and she said, "you and your data! I like my viewpoint and don't want to change it. I just don't understand." Unlike you, I was struck by the idea that someone wouldn't want information and yet they were messaging me to learn more but they don't want anything that goes against their former religious beliefs. They don't even consider themselves practicing Catholic anymore.
I have found that the best way to deal with friends and family with stubbornly held opposing views, is to write down the two polar opposite ends of a subject; Then REFUSE to DEBATE them. Next make a list of things that you each agree on related to the subject. Then say you are only willing to discuss compromise that can achieve common goals. Whenever your opponent drifts back to stubborn debate, start back at the first step. People can only convince themselves. It is also helpful to avoid cult of personality. This is very helpful with politics. My friends and family always want to focus on certain politician's behavior, so I always redirect to party policy which is actually the way legislation really works. I then point out how power is about 50/50 and how this requires compromise in order for either side to get anything they really want.
Can we just transcribe all of what Seth says in this episode? I want to post all this to my fb, lol. ..I got some 'friends' there that can't seem to see the logic, evidence, etc..right in front of them! They won't take the time to watch videos, even 30 second tiktoks. But they do seem to take the time to read posts on fb, even if they disagree. I'm bad with words, very bad. Seth talks normally where it would take me a week of a rough draft, edit, final draft..to say the same thing with words..still not worded as well as Seth would say.
Seth, I love your show! Fun facts, but BOTH parties are insane, and both parties have good points. There are more cars than people BTW... I am concerned at the large number in the comments who are sad and ready to give up. Where has the will to fight for fixing the system gone? To personally make a difference?
Whenever someone would ask my Dad "Where are you at?" He'd say "Sitting on the "a" looking at the "t"." Really feel bad for you having to deal with the whole stolen identity thing. That is a horrible hassle to deal with. I haven't had that problem but I almost had a huge anxiety attack when someone stole one of my credit card numbers and used it. Fortunately, I was able to get it straightened out in a couple of days. I too never had children and am not sorry I didn't. I had decided not to do it at all if I hadn't found the right guy by age 35. Didn't happen so at least I got to enjoy by sister's kids. It has been great getting to enjoy them and give them back to mom and dad. One of my nephew's even had me named as his second mom at his wedding. Always love your podcasts. Great conversations with callers. Another happy atheist here. 🥰❤💯
Optimism is an absolutely foreign concept to me. The only person that can command me to love him is Dave Mustaine, but that's only because he's the godfather of thrash metal. ;)
The only time I can't stand kids, is when they are acting out of control! I've had kids run into me and not even apologise! And the parents act like this is ok? On the other hand when the kid(s) are totally polite and courteous, it makes me wonder where they got their manners from.
Although an unpopular topic on this channel I have seen in my karmic circle with surprising regularity, a cycle of unusually deep depression, sadness, that I am attributing to some form of biological agent/immunological agent, because I was able to stop this depression with some of the protocols that I developed from being sick for over two decades, with one of the most unpopular diagnosis a human can have. A diagnosis that was featured on late night talk shows as the butt of jokes, and with a snide culturally significant hatred of young urban professionals became the yuppie flu, chronic fatigue syndrome, chronic Lyme disease, and literally a few dozen more diseases, all disabling at various levels of incapacitation, whose cause-and-effect relationship, within the medical literature is debated primarily because of the likelihood of this being part of some sort of bio weapons narrative going on for years
Hate children? No. Just hate the idea of having them. I surely am not pleased with the average parent that cant manage their own lives let alone a child's.
When the theist claims that there was nothing, before there was something, then claims there was a god, he has already shot himself in the foot, for a god is not nothing.
What people in the US hate is parents who don't teach their kids to behave in public. What those kids do at home is fine. Their parents need to teach their kids that other people matter.
@@trishayamada807 Help with what? I was brought up poor, no help from the government. I was taught to behave in public. You don't need help to teach your kids respect other people' rights.
@@tims8603 preschool for one. Maternity and paternity leave. Your little anecdote isn’t the truth for all. I know your world seems to be the way it is for everyone else, but it’s not. It’s really sad you can see or understand that. I feel you are the reason the USA is such a bitter country. Wouldn’t it have been healthier to not grow up poor? Heck I watch stories of 18 year olds who need DENTURES because they grew up poor. They skipped school out of embarrassment for bad teeth. Wake up and find your humanity already.
Yes, Sean McDowel is Josh McDowel’s son. I watched part of that speech he was talking about. I don’t remember specifics anymore, but I do remember thinking that his strawmen in that speech were less bad than most. That time. I’ve also seen him in other videos spouting the standard crap about atheists that we all know and love.
I'm sure that there are a lot of people out there these days that wish they could have children. That they could have a stable home environment to raise them in and to be able to give a decent quality of life to themselves and their family. But sadly our parents thought Reagan was cool so nope, none of that is allowed anymore.
It's easy to feel alone as a rational human in a world so divorced from reality. Thank science the internet can connect all of us who don't believe in Bronze Age fairy tales.
What gets me is the hypocrisy of people that no matter what choice you make, they can claim how wrong or bad you are. My husband and I didn’t have kids until we were “old”. 40-42-45 years old. We have three amazing children. The same prolife people say we were wrong to have children because what if we die! Oh so should I have aborted? No, I was actually told I should have given up my children to younger people. So I’m good enough to give birth but not raise my children because I could die? None of us is promised a tomorrow. We just had a mother of 4 die in a car crash and she was 32.
Blue voter in a red county, atheist surrounded by religious people, so yes I'm feeling down but not beaten.
The very minute that people are forced to stand for a flag or pledge allegience, is the same precise minute that those symbols cease to represent freedom. Those who claim to be patriots who are all about freedom are simply not. Their lack of self-awareness is disturbing.
“If a believer demands that I, as a nonbeliever, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect, but for my submission.” ~ Flemming Rose
One of my favorite quotes.
I consider myself a patriot, nationalist, and constitutionalist. But you are 100% correct! Personal freedom is the ideal this country was founded on.
Exactly
And "submission" is the very meaning of the word _Islam._
9 minutes in and I'm a bawling mess because every single word resonates on a soul level.
❤️❤️❤️
The childless adult is interesting. I have been in a long relationship and I took necessary actions to keep us from having kids . Every day, we appreciate our freedom and know that it was the right choice.
Same, I've never been gladder for my choice.
Same here. Neither my wife nor I wanted children and I was “fixed” at a fairly early age.
We are now in our fifties and have never regretted our choice for a single second.
Regarding kids; I'm childless by choice and, if the doctors would let me, I'd have my tubes tied (I'm 35). I don't hate kids, I have a nephew that I would do anything for and there are some amazing kids in the karate class that I attend. However, it really passes me off when kids are allowed to run around uncontrolled and screaming yet the parents don't attempt to calm them down, it feels like they're not respecting other people or maybe belive that being a parent gives them some sort of special status. If your kid wants to play noisy games give him/her some earphones, if your kid is in a restaurant they need to behave themselves not only for the respect of other diners but for safety- I used to be a waitress and a kid nearly ran in to me while I was carrying skillets but I quickly dodged and burned my arm in the process. I don't hate children, I hate parents who can't be arsed to control their kids. I understand that kids scream and fuss but in return please understand that it's not fair on others either, I have autism and children screaming causes physical and overwhelming pain, not just annoyance but pain to the point where I feel physically sick which triggers panic attacks/meltdown. I can't always block that noise out, if I'm in a waiting room for example, so please take your kids outside or give them earphones or at least try and calm them down. Just be considerate of others, please.
What boggles my mind is that humans have the capacity to do wondrous, glorious things. From the Louvre to the James Webb space telescope, the potential ingenuity and creativity of the human species is a a phenomena to be awed by, and proud of. BUT then we have also created imminent nuclear annihilation of everything, perpetual warfare, and environmental degradation and disrespect beyond comprehension. It seems evident to most that the bad stuff is increasingly overwhelming the good stuff. Why is that? It seems like the choice is a no-brainer, yet we as a species do otherwise,
SPOT ON. and the default reason cause comes down to religion, tribal division to control.
I've come to accept that I won't get married, have kids, own a home, or retire. Just killing time till time kills me is my state of mind currently. I accept that I'm born into the wrong time, country, race (I'm black), and none religion. Not sad as happiness is not guaranteed nor deserved, but I accept it for what it is. I've given up any hope of beating the theocrats, the corporations, etc and I just focus on living in the moment and controlling what I can.
People think I’m making a dark joke when I say my retirement plan is a bullet to the brain but that’s how bleak things are when you can’t afford to have a family, a house, or any sort of nest egg. You’re always one tragedy away from losing the little bit you’ve got.
I understand, somewhat, how you feel. I'm white but I was born into a poor family so growing up without much was tough. I would just say that life can be hard but you just have to try to make your life better. Love the people you love and try to accept that you can't love everyone. I live by the serenity prayer "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference." I would leave out the god part because I'm an atheist. I also like the old adage "Live in the moment, remember the past and plan for the future." You can't change the past and the future isn't here yet.
@@MoonCakeisaLie Yeah, I think retirement is a dream if I remain in the US so it's either go abroad or stay here and end up paying 1200 a month to rent a 1 bedroom in 2040 (I hope I don't live that long if I'm still in the US)
I find my simple loner life to be satisfying. I would have made an excellent fat-assed house cat.
I am lucky to find pleasure in simple things; a cup of coffee, a walk in blooming spring, to fly fish for hatchery trout, or enjoy a poignant film like "Cool Hand Luke" or Harry Dean Stanton's "Lucky." I consider myself to be lucky, but for some reason, I have never felt much desire to reproduce nor fuck a bunch of different women. I enjoy my freedom, and while fucking can be fun, is so overrated.
Now I am old (67), and I'm okay.
@@Maxrepfitgmlots of people have to move countries to find a better life. You may have assumed that a better life was something immigrants to America were getting and that life could not possibly be better elsewhere, that is certainty America’s mythology, but most other places in the developed world are better places on a large number of metrics.
A better life is not arrived at by convincing oneself of a series of empty platitudes, which once applied to some people some of the time, but by demanding of your government that it fix problems, deliver free universal healthcare, safe streets, equal justice.
Any place where the government is actually working on those problems in earnest will be a better place than the current America because there is some hope of a brighter future rather than being told that any problems are just what you must live with to have such an awesome constitution written centuries ago for long dead Americans.
When apartheid ended in South Africa, the new democratic government wrote a new constitution which was designed for all South Africans. This included protections for LGBTQ+, something America has yet to do 35 years on. America needs to get rid of its apartheid first of course. Baby steps.
I’m right there with you Seth. Feeling hopeless. Thank you for using your voice. I really need to hear it right now.
Yes I’m sad and pissed everyday and all day. The BS never stops
When I get to the end of my rope with being pissed, I go watch some zombie movies and play like the zombies are all republican politicians. I feel much better then. LOL
why am I subjected to xian marketing and ads every time I click on a link that is critical of religion or pertains to secularism? Gross.
The world at large doesn't scare me nearly as much as the people that I personally know and care about. To see the world through a different lens than before and see how closed minded they are and how conditional their affection is, and to see so many of them embrace Qanon theories and Christian Nationalism more and more as time goes on. I've loved and respected some of these people all of my life, and now I've moved in one direction and they've mostly gone off the deep end in the other direction. I'm over here not wanting to let them go, because my love isn't conditional, but being crushed by their hateful thoughts and actions, and knowing that if they knew what I was, their pretense of caring would melt away and I'd become a target.
For this reason I became an orphan at 48, done with the stupid, judging, hypocrisy, hate. Better off alone.
I have absolutely never ever wanted children. I’m 52 now and I even see more I definitely did the right thing not having kids. Having lots of kids is also part of the fundamentalists mentality. It’s definitely rooted in religion. In the biblical times reproduction was critical for help on the farms and for soldiers in the wars. Basically that’s why they did it. Humans have children for basically selfish reasons. The kids never get a say if they get bought into the world
Also the product of a tribe that felt the need to grow its population because it saw itself as being surrounded by enemies.
While I feel the weight of the world like everyone else, I do believe that we live in the best time in human history. We got a lot of things that need fixing. But I’m hopeful.
Riki energy must be sent in all natural packaging and the slowest and least high-tech method of delivery you can possibly find and you have to use physical stamps on the package.
My husband and I both have no desire to have kids, which makes life easier for a gay couple; if we wanted kids, there'd be no shortage of people throwing obstacles in our way. You mentioned how people with children have less ability to be spontaneous in their plans. This reminded me of a time when my late father was holding someone else's baby, and he jokingly (maybe only half so) called the baby a "bungle of joy"! Maybe he wanted the spontaneity of his youth back.
Not sure, did he just say it sarcastically or is it because he said "bungle" instead of "bundle"?
@@punchline43 The word "bungle" was the joke! Is that what you were asking?
@@tkat6442 Yeah l just wasn't thinking pun, and l've never heard bungle used as a noun before but that's pretty clever.
@@punchline43 He thought of some good ones every once in a while!
Take A Moment Relax
You are on your way to rare places, my friends
I have PTSD I was in the RAF for 28yrs
Anti-god in my foxhole
24/7 in a care home at 64yrs old.
People are okay
No gods required 😂🎉x
I used to be a very optimistic person, now it's the opposite. I have two kids who are teenagers I fake optimism only to not bum them out about the future even though they definitely see right through me.
I used to be a people person, and well people really fucked that up for me.
Wow. Such truth. Hang in there. Its gen z that saved us from Trump in 2020.
@@rianmacdonald9454
Major truth. Where is there a safe place to stand that is not the movie "Idiocracy"?
Hopeless and sad seems to be the default feeling these days.
agreed! All is lost!
2/3rds of my kids have decided not to have kids and tbh, I hope the youngest makes that same decision.
@@therewillbecatswithgwenhwyfar Observing the world around me factored into my decision to not have any children as well. I also work in an office with 6 other young professionals between 25 and 35, all of us with at least one college level STEM degree and all of us are married or have a long term significant other. The 7 of us have a combined grand total of 1 child, who was only born 6 months ago.
@@therewillbecatswithgwenhwyfar But of course, you have to face the possibility that the world is doomed precisely *because* we're losing population and not reproducing at replacement levels. Then having children would be exactly what we need to do to save the world.
@@justinhart2831 except that our particular medical history means that, even if my children are a force for good in the world, which I already believe they are, of course, I still don’t want my children or grandchildren suffering.
I would not be mad if I found out an asteroid was going to take us all out at the same time, so we just all vaporized, I would be fine with that.
My only hesitation in crossing the veil between the world is because my kids have needs that make me feel like I can never die because they’re going to always need me.
I will 100% support what they choose but I really hope they don’t have kids. I know it’s really sad that my cynicism is so thick but we seem to have never evolved, considering that we are literally having the same problems as we were having in ancient Greece.
I have no respect for most politicians of either stripe. To specifically vilify Republicans (as deserving as it is) is disingenuous. Our political "class" is a species unto themselves whose divisions are largely superficial or imaginary. The apparent rivalry and partisanship between them is as much a matter of "theatrics" as it is substance. Collectively both parties have grabbed the American people by the nose and they are leading them in any direction that is beneficial to their collective oligarchic interests. Democracy? What's that?
Someone who gets it. Nice to meet you.
I've often found myself in the same boat as Seth, when it comes to "not having children". I'm around his age. No children. The difference is,...no wife, either. It can be a lonely life. And I wonder what my future will hold when usually the children often care for their elderly parents. What will that time in my life be like?
And as for kids,...and the woman who called about "people not wanting her children around when in a restaurant",...If you take your children out, they _should_ behave respectfully. _Teach_ them manners and how to act in public. If you let your kids run wild, it is an indicator of potential bad parenting. If your kids behave, you'll not have people saying anything to you.
On the "would you believe if the god were proven"? Seth answered it pretty well. If such an entity were proven to be real, I'd still have to have a long conversation with it to see what it is actually all about....not "what religions claimed about it thousands of years ago".
Thinking Atheist, Seth, wow, this, your venting, hit home. As for Manuella, wow I feel bad for her. I've only ever seen a very few people say anything to a parent even when warranted! Oh and I'm also childless by choice. Well, and I was very lucky, apparently born barren! Though I was a pretty good step parent. But not nearly as burdensome as full parenthood. Great call and damn, I wish I could see you in Phoenix since I'm in Kingman! No money either. Plus, I didn't even know it was coming. But I'd have loved to attend that one, or one of the many others, to meet sort of my heroes! And I too wish we could go back to the original motto! OK I'm acting like I'm on line. Lol. Love you! 👍💙💖🥰✌
Plutocracy (Rule by the Wealthy) + Theocracy (Rule by the Godly) = Kakistocracy (Rule by the Worst)
I'm really sorry that someone stole your identity. I hope it all gets worked out sooner than later. I love your show. Hang in there!🥰
The world has too many people in it. You have a child and your life will never be your own again. Avoid the trap.
I think your first premise may be flawed, but your second is spot on!
The giant asteroid or killer virus will make us all equal.
I wish gun culture wasn't so wrapped up in Christian identity. I'm as much an Atheist as you can get but I'm a big 2A absolutist, former infantry Marine. I just wish we didn't automatically discuss Christian wackyness with the countries founding stance on firearms, which is really just a guarantee that an individual has a right to be their own first responder to crisis and capable of defending yourself with the best tools for the job. Unfortunate that mindset has been hijacked by the religious right.
Christians should not even desire guns because their God is supposed to take care of them and keep them safe
I do enjoy your videos Seth. I enjoy watching you and others in the religion debates, and I did enjoy Paul Harvey back in the day. I think you are a great one to carry on the tradition.
Joseph - there is no problem with being an angry atheist, or angry in general - it only becomes a problem when you do one of two things - 1) You let the anger consume you or 2) You let the anger out on those who do not deserve it.
Sometimes things are so bad, also for example even ten years ago.
You just have to accept that the old ways of our former 'glory' have ended
I'm an autistic atheist, and I've never had a "spiritual" experience, and it's honestly never crossed my mind to suspect a causal relationship there. From my point of view most people just copy/paste their opinions but I'd been forced to form my own. Of course 1) I was raised attending boring church (though the thought of 6-year old me surrounded by people jumping around and yelling gibberish is terrifying), and 2) most of the other autistic people I've met (that I knew of) have been very religious. I have trouble empathizing with that, in fact.
I think I may be autistic (no diagnosis), 74 and no marriage or children. I was quite pleased with our first church preacher (a standard teacher) but was repelled by his replacement (a Hell and Brimstone pastor). Baptist churches split. But maybe that would explain some of it.
@@kathryngeeslin9509 I suppose hell-terrors probably are strong emotional experiences (I wasn't raised in a hell-believing church). I did listen to a lot of harsh, you're-not-Christianing-enough preachers a bit later in childhood, but I was already sitting there thinking "what a jerk". I don't think the preaching thing ever worked on me, to be honest.
The current theory is the Heat Death of the Universe. Thor and Odin are the true prophets because ice giants and not hellfire.
In short the expansion will continue till the subatomic particles decay into nothing... pure energy radiation something.... This is more likely a hypothesis.
Isaac Arthur SFIA Civilizations at the end of times series is gold.
In my experience, if you are an evangelical Christian who eventually becomes unconvinced of the reality and truthfulness of Christianity, you will become an evangelical atheist and try your best to de-convert everyone you bump into. I went that route, and it took over a decade to develop a live-and-let-live attitude.
Sad is the default emotion for us humans. Sad because we know at some level that we will end someday. That who we think we are will at some time no longer exist. To lose me is a sad thought. All else is diversion. But, dwelling on the loss, the sadness is not healthy.
Seth, I kind of think there is a god (some kind of conscious creator/engineer), I just think he/she/it/they are a dick. What does that make me, maybe like the Gnostics?
I definitely understand the feeling of hopelessness. And for me at least, futility.
In addition to the increasing madness in the world many things are coming apart around me personally.
I hope things improve for all of us.
I'm kinda there too, sad about the state of the world, about the percentage of humanity that still thinks their religion is the only true one and uses it to justify their ignorance and hate. Hate should be earned by condemnable actions, not some harmless aspect of a person's genetic makeup
Its getting to the point where ppl will not have kids bcuz the world is so messed up with more and more resources drying up that they will suffer in the future.
For some of the commenters here You need to ask yourself The question what do I do for fun. If that is a little difficult to answer You may need treatment. I know I did.
That Hitchens debate he's talking about isn't that the one that earned Christopher the term hitchslap
💛💯
I have also had the BLUES. It's PTSD from life Seth. LIFE AS AMERICANS IN THE YEAR 2023. After Trump and Covid. All the fear and hate could only do one thing. Make us SAD. 😢 Thank you for this episode. You're not alone. You've always helped ME feel less lonely in this deconverting life long journey. Also Ive become more PROGRESSIVE the LESS I believe in ANY Christian doctrine. I think you perhaps feel the same.
I'm in total agreement with your comment Laura as I've been feeling the same. Thankfully, I've become more progressive also since leaving the religion I was with. Left the Catholic church four years ago and have not looked back.
Many "progressive" ideas aren't actually progressive and send us backwards like transgenderism. Perhaps maybe not be a sheep to either political party and question everything, including atheism.
I feel hopeless for the future of my 14 year old son. He was an outdoor social kid until covid hit. We lived in California, so going out meant human contact. So we didn't. He got lost in playing online video games. Now, we live in rural Minnesota. So, when he's not at school, he's on the Playstation. With the way the world and society are, I just let him go at it all he wants.
You live in a rural area and stay inside? Not only are you ruining his eyes and health, you are not doing his immune system any favors. Have you had his Vitamin D checked? Why don't you buy him some tools hand teach him to build things? (do it with him, and you don't need expensive tools to do it). Be creative and get him OUTDOORS.
He can find human contact from those online games too. Even friends if he is lucky. 🙂
@Teija P.
True. He has, actually. He has a few friends from when we lived in California and a few others he routinely plays with. I overhear them playing and having a great time.
@@lagodifuoco313 Awesome 👍
Hearing a really sad song or track somewhere might do it.
There are both domestic and international institutions hocking what I would term post-reality. It comes from multiple epistemic mechanisms through liberal and conservative ideological lenses. What am I saying, an attempt to destabilize the mindset and centering of thought by pushing provocations onto the population in not just general, but targeting academic and development environments. A push back on this ill thought out positing of this quasi-perceptive liberation. The best I can do is to describe it using a movie production analogy. When making a movie, or a documentary, the writer and director decided to render the product as a complete CGI-based AI interpretation of the original script. The end product looks more like a Star Wars movie than the story of growing up in Appalachia.
Now imagine that you know see the world more like a pseudo-scifi and not as how to live a life in a rural eastern state such as West Virginia. Walking into the bar "Buck's Drops" you look around and claim that the Whookie in the corner was giving you dirty looks with his fourth eye.
Holy Hitchens Seth I never blinked when you said veneer. I guess that shows my age. Great show Seth!🤟🪐
Happy Birthday, Seth!!!
28:04 you'll never have to listen to the doctor tell you that your flesh and blood has a lifelong chronic illness that potentially could derail their entire life.
There's a lot of really beautiful moments in relationships, but there's also a lot of risk and a lot of pain.
30:36 my youngest is also autistic and passes most of the time as neurotypical.
They have never been interested in religion or as far as I know any spirituality. They are definitely an atheist.
48:14 oh my gosh I just experienced this recently because I am not an expert but I am fairly reasonably versed in trans culture and so I often have people who don't understand what that's all about who will message me so they can ask me questions rather than asking an actual trans person which I feel like it's totally fair. But she stated a couple of things where the first word of the sentence was, "I just believe…"
And so I would challenge that and say OK where are you getting that data, and she said, "you and your data! I like my viewpoint and don't want to change it. I just don't understand."
Unlike you, I was struck by the idea that someone wouldn't want information and yet they were messaging me to learn more but they don't want anything that goes against their former religious beliefs. They don't even consider themselves practicing Catholic anymore.
The thing with the religious right and the republican party is that both intentionally get in the way each and every time.
I have found that the best way to deal with friends and family with stubbornly held opposing views, is to write down the two polar opposite ends of a subject; Then REFUSE to DEBATE them. Next make a list of things that you each agree on related to the subject. Then say you are only willing to discuss compromise that can achieve common goals. Whenever your opponent drifts back to stubborn debate, start back at the first step. People can only convince themselves.
It is also helpful to avoid cult of personality. This is very helpful with politics. My friends and family always want to focus on certain politician's behavior, so I always redirect to party policy which is actually the way legislation really works. I then point out how power is about 50/50 and how this requires compromise in order for either side to get anything they really want.
Can we just transcribe all of what Seth says in this episode? I want to post all this to my fb, lol. ..I got some 'friends' there that can't seem to see the logic, evidence, etc..right in front of them! They won't take the time to watch videos, even 30 second tiktoks. But they do seem to take the time to read posts on fb, even if they disagree. I'm bad with words, very bad. Seth talks normally where it would take me a week of a rough draft, edit, final draft..to say the same thing with words..still not worded as well as Seth would say.
Seth, I love your show! Fun facts, but BOTH parties are insane, and both parties have good points. There are more cars than people BTW...
I am concerned at the large number in the comments who are sad and ready to give up. Where has the will to fight for fixing the system gone? To personally make a difference?
Whenever someone would ask my Dad "Where are you at?" He'd say "Sitting on the "a" looking at the "t"."
Really feel bad for you having to deal with the whole stolen identity thing. That is a horrible hassle to deal with. I haven't had that problem but I almost had a huge anxiety attack when someone stole one of my credit card numbers and used it. Fortunately, I was able to get it straightened out in a couple of days.
I too never had children and am not sorry I didn't. I had decided not to do it at all if I hadn't found the right guy by age 35. Didn't happen so at least I got to enjoy by sister's kids. It has been great getting to enjoy them and give them back to mom and dad. One of my nephew's even had me named as his second mom at his wedding.
Always love your podcasts. Great conversations with callers.
Another happy atheist here. 🥰❤💯
So sorry you’re dealing with identity theft, Seth. Absolutely awful and helpless feeling. Keep your chin up buddy. I’ll float you some good vibes…
All apologetics is 3D - Distort, Divert and Dissemble. Every conversation I've had with them is a game of language distortion and goalpost moving.
"How could you not know?" This usually coming from people who don't know exactly what it means _to know_ and what qualifies as _knowledge._
Fellow Okie here, I feel this to my bones
I completely understand. I lived 1/2 mile from you in Bixby. I finally moved to Indonesia, and feel safer. No guns allowed.
Optimism is an absolutely foreign concept to me. The only person that can command me to love him is Dave Mustaine, but that's only because he's the godfather of thrash metal. ;)
According to Seth, having an ideology not compatible with our oligarchic imperialist uniparty government is a "position of privilege" or a "cop out" 😆
The only time I can't stand kids, is when they are acting out of control! I've had kids run into me and not even apologise! And the parents act like this is ok?
On the other hand when the kid(s) are totally polite and courteous, it makes me wonder where they got their manners from.
The church is Borg - It assimilates or kills. All dogma is a conglomeration of conquered cultures.
Iv no had any video notifications from your channel in 5 months .... emmm well plus side that's my weekend sorted lol
Although an unpopular topic on this channel I have seen in my karmic circle with surprising regularity, a cycle of unusually deep depression, sadness, that I am attributing to some form of biological agent/immunological agent, because I was able to stop this depression with some of the protocols that I developed from being sick for over two decades, with one of the most unpopular diagnosis a human can have. A diagnosis that was featured on late night talk shows as the butt of jokes, and with a snide culturally significant hatred of young urban professionals became the yuppie flu, chronic fatigue syndrome, chronic Lyme disease, and literally a few dozen more diseases, all disabling at various levels of incapacitation, whose cause-and-effect relationship, within the medical literature is debated primarily because of the likelihood of this being part of some sort of bio weapons narrative going on for years
Hate children? No. Just hate the idea of having them. I surely am not pleased with the average parent that cant manage their own lives let alone a child's.
To answer your question Seth, a universe like ours can have a beginning in a multiverse that does not have a beginning.
I have been feeling this way since Jan 6, 2021, and I just can't get out of it.
When the theist claims that there was nothing, before there was something, then claims there was a god, he has already shot himself in the foot, for a god is not nothing.
Shift more government resources to the civilian sector
Aren't you a step father. Isn't that parenting??
What people in the US hate is parents who don't teach their kids to behave in public. What those kids do at home is fine. Their parents need to teach their kids that other people matter.
The problem there is the USA does NOTHING to help parents. That is the issue.
@@trishayamada807 Help with what? I was brought up poor, no help from the government. I was taught to behave in public. You don't need help to teach your kids respect other people' rights.
@@tims8603 preschool for one. Maternity and paternity leave. Your little anecdote isn’t the truth for all. I know your world seems to be the way it is for everyone else, but it’s not. It’s really sad you can see or understand that. I feel you are the reason the USA is such a bitter country. Wouldn’t it have been healthier to not grow up poor? Heck I watch stories of 18 year olds who need DENTURES because they grew up poor. They skipped school out of embarrassment for bad teeth. Wake up and find your humanity already.
So have pet Adders??
Yes, Sean McDowel is Josh McDowel’s son. I watched part of that speech he was talking about. I don’t remember specifics anymore, but I do remember thinking that his strawmen in that speech were less bad than most. That time. I’ve also seen him in other videos spouting the standard crap about atheists that we all know and love.
The VERNeer in the VENacular! Priceless...Thank you Seth!
I'm sure that there are a lot of people out there these days that wish they could have children. That they could have a stable home environment to raise them in and to be able to give a decent quality of life to themselves and their family.
But sadly our parents thought Reagan was cool so nope, none of that is allowed anymore.
I practiced Reiki for seven years, If you have questions hit me up.
I'm in OKC, Seth. You are not alone.
I believe in critical thinking, nature and all its elements, reality, reason and science.