Fosi V3 Mono - They FINALLY Added It!
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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I wanted to know the details of these - and I couldn't have picked a better video - fantastic.
You covered all the most important points, without any hype. Thanks Matt.
Now Fosi needs to make a matching preamp. One with a display that can be read from 10' - 15' away and simple remote.
Curious what they come up with
I think they'll come up with one. I don't want a screen unless it's very basic. The wiim ultra seems to be a good match. Hope the preamp section is decent.
Matt, you do some of the best reviews on the internet. And I am not just saying that. On point, no nonsense and a fantastic presentation. I had a single ZA3 easily driving a pair of the Magnepan LRS+ speakers, and the little ZA3 never even broke a sweat. It was as described, and I would hope the new V3 Mono are better than the ZA3 in regards to sound. The ZA3 was still two dimensional vs the 3D I get from a Class A/B. I will be purchasing these mono blocks, these are just too cool not to. Again, thanks for the review and the time you put into this.
Appreciate the support! Have a good weekend
I suspect that the best way to experience a rich 3D sound from these V3 Mono amps is to put a real tube preamp in front. I haven't heard these so-called tube preamps that are actually solid state that employ a tube buffer, so I would stick with fully tube preamps like the Audio Research SP3-a-1 or a Dynaco PAS3x for example.
@@geevee1045 I don't know if a tube preamp would overcome the 2D of the Class D, even a nice Dynaco unit. I have had the Schiit Freya through here, and it really did nothing for me. I actually preferred the non tube Freya S.
@@michaelwright1602 The Fosi ZA3 sounds pretty good on my Maggie LRS+ as well. I recently added an Audio Research SP3-a-1 tube preamp in front of a class AB amp and although it was subtle at first, I noticed that I was enjoying the music much more, no matter what music style was played. It was more engaging, more toe-tapping. The Fosi ZA3 and Aiyima A07 didn't do that for me. Class D can be very clear and clean, but less musical, less involving than my tube preamp/class AB amp combo. But that's just my experience. But I must admit, the price of class D is so easy on the pocketbook. Class D is practically free, although the price is creeping up with the need to buy 2 amps for mono, and chunkier power supplies.
@@geevee1045 Yes they are fun amplifiers, but tubes and A/B, really cannot be beat, especially with these Maggies. If you are running any subs, pick up the Rolls SX45 active crossover, put that in between the preamp and amp. Plug the subs into the Rolls on the Low Output. Set the crossover at around 80ish hz, then set the phase on the subs to 180 and dial them in. I think you will be blown away. I know I was.
Best review out there on these V3 monos. Thanks.
Hey! Appreciate that
This was such a concise yet comprehensive overview. Really appreciated, as so many (well I) have been kinda nutzo following this progression of chip amps. Really finding it hard to resist trying these. Speculation and evil game, but now wondering how they’d differ from a pair of GaN monos like Orchard Audio amps👍🏼🙏🏼
It can certainly get interesting when you start to compare across price points but I can also say Orchard Audio makes some really nice amps.
I wonder what you could buy to better these? What is your opinion?
@MattCoykendall1 wow they are really stamping out so many products, feels like they release a new one weekly. Thanks for being an enjoyable and informative watch. I’ll say this … Fosi and Wiim are making the industry push the envelope just to keep up. 🙃
They do certainly turn around these releases quickly!
What is the power spec for 8 ohm driving 2 channels at 20hz-20khz which my current avr uses? I’m wondering whether this would be a good amp to relegate my avr to preamp duty only.
With a 32 volt supply ... 55w rms
With the 48 volt supply ... 110w rms.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 48v comes in 5A and now 10A
@@johnshore3095
That won't change the power output.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Really going from 48v 5A to 48v 10A .. and doubling the current won't increase the power at all?
My guess is it will.. and the data sheets suggest that too.
It may be complete over kill for most speakers but looking forward to seeing the proof it does not increase power.
@@johnshore3095
The only way it will increase power is if the 5 amp supply is being driven into current limiting.
Just because you have a 10 amp supply does not mean your amplifier is going to consume 10 amps. That's just not how electricity works...
The amplifier will take the current it needs to produce the required output and unless you're looking to blow out your eardrums, that is likely less than an amp, most of the time.
Good review Matt ... Nicely done as usual.
One thing I would point out...
The "load dependency" issue so many go on about isn't the deal breaker most seem to think it is.
Look at the charts on ASR for other TPA3255 amps and you will discover that all this fuss is being made over less than 1db of variance ... in most cases less than half a DB. (Scale matters!) And since this is happening way up in the brilliance part of the audio band (above 10khz) it is beyond unlikely that anyone other than Batman is ever going to hear it. Adding Post Filter FeedBack pushes this further up into the spectrum but it does not completely eliminate it. In fact it makes less than half a DB of difference. (Again... Scale Matters)
What happens with the "zoomed in" charts they're using in the analysis is that people see a bump in a line, fail to realize that we're talking about half a db at ~90db spl and tend to exaggerate the issue beyond all reason.
Excellent comment...also all transformer coupled output high-end tube amplifiers costing tens of thousands of dollars exhibit the same behavior
@@larryjohnson9019
Thank you Larry!
Yes tube amps exhibit the same thing and sometimes worse. An output transformer is, after all, just another coil in the speaker leads.
That was an extremely helpful and accurate assessment! Thanks!
@@MichaelRofe
You're welcome. LOL... We aims to please.
I totally agree, advancements are great and welcomed but sometimes we live in a “zoomed” in world where things like this become bigger than they really are.
you want separate power supplies, isn't that part of the point of having mono blocks?
In fact, it's almost the whole point of monoblocks.
Besides why limit your options? If you want to place them further apart in the future...
I'm very happy with my ZA3 mono block Linton setup and it doesn't sound like these would be an upgrade. I'd be very interested in a low cost Class D monoblock configuration that would match the 3D soundstage and sound separation of better Class A/B amps as well as 200watts/8ohm per channel.
Your videos continue to improve and your review style of direct and easy to understand is greatly appreciated. I don't care for the overly statistical nor subjective, just what will I get for the money.
I appreciate that! Usability and value is generally what I like to key in on. I want to give people an idea what the product will be like to live with.
I wish Fosi offered their amps that have switchable op-amps WITH the (becoming legendary) SparkoS Labs units for a price savings.
It has been demonstrated by several measurements that sparkos stuff doesn't give any advantage over any other decent opamps, quite the opposite...
I didn't realize previous Fosi's & other's hadn't had the Post Feedback Filter (PFF)!! My 3e-audio TPA3255 chipamps have had PFF since 2017, but I've been using the Fosi's V3 mostly these days because they have a case & volume knob, but it makes me really respect these old 3e-audios I've had for being so early to the game & doing so well with these amazing TPA3255 chips. I wonder what super-chip will come along next, what an even better future could possibly be? Will someone bring GaN into a semi affordable range? It's gonna take a lot to surpass the TPA3255! Very fun look at this amp, thanks!
PFFB is a good thing ... but it's not a game changer. With proper filter designs, we're talking about perfectly good performance without it. The extra nudge from PFFB is often not even audible.
It's reassuring that YT Reviewers such as Matt are beginning to shed their misconceptions about today's Class D "high-end" products from Asia sound quality....thank you Matt. But unfortunately there continues to be this misconception, by all YT Reviewers, about size...and because of these products compact size, and price point, they keep getting egregiously categorized as near-field and desktop "only" devices....which they are not! They can drive everything from Wilsons to Magnepans (2 ohms speakers) and not break a sweat.
So...here is a simple explanation as to why these Class D amps are compact compared to larger Class A and A/B siblings.
The TI TPA3255 based Class D amps from Fosi, Aiymia, Douk are what you call market disruptiors because they redefine accepted beliefs such as a "high-end" amplifiers must weigh over 100 lbs. and can heat your house, large enough to be used as a guest bed, and cost as much as the whole house to be good. People are also misguided in believing that size matter as it pertains to an amp's power delivery. That is only true for Class A and AB amplifiers because of their low efficiency. You see---they are big not because they are delivering so much power---it is because they are wasting it in the form of heat--not so with Class D, they are so efficient, over 95%, they barely get warm to the touch when delivering 100 watts of power. So you don't need the expensive large heatsinks or enclosures and you can make the amplifier much smaller for the same power delivery compared to Class A and AB.
So these industry changing Class D products, are small, less expensive (for now), and produce high-end sound----they are truly state of the art. So give them a try on a pair of $50,000.00 loudspeakers and save the other $50,000.00 and take in a lot of concerts
Sorry for the long post.
Great post and true, amps like this shouldn't be restricted to just desktop use, I have powered many floor standing speakers with 3255 chips with a lot of success, plenty of power in most cases.
Must admit I bought a Fosi ZA3 to experience what they were talking about.
Didn't expect it to surpass my Rega Aethos, but must admit that with lightly driven vintages like the Beovox 1100 or 2200, system matching makes the ZA3 surpass here. Looking forward to hearing Lowther Bicor 1000 and Zu Audio Cube MKii at class d...
With that in mind, I'll have to try the mono V3, with the Aethos as a preamplifier...
Work, Consum, Die;)
These amps are really good after trying them I took out my Quad 606 and a 300b class A amp’s and am more than happy with the result.
Well done Fosi, sound stage is better, deeper and wider than I had.
They are driving my Troels Graveson OBL 15 speakers with aplomb.
Taffman Australia
Matt, thank you for update on Fosi V3 monoblocks. I understand that the WiiM Ultra will be introduced on May 9th.
Indeed!
I was going to wait for this new amp, but it doesn't have a sub-out, so I went for a couple ZA3's....
Me too but then my preamp took the sub in the end
The mini amps are great and can be integrated into a real neighborhood
Problem
I want, but want someone to make a preamp 2.1 with a crossover knob.
I use fmods at 70hz [THX] hi pass and a 500watt or 1000watt sub amp and the monoblock s @ 48vdc 12 amp. O Lord they play loud.
I'm definitely entertaining grabbing these little kick ass amps...but I haven't seen them pushing like a 12" woofer where I can see real output . Unless they're only good for little speakers
found this today... on the V3 mono it has 3 opamps... the one back by the RCA connector is the one for the RCA... so if you leave it stock and change out the other two then you can get two different sound signatures.... and all you have to do is flip the XLR/RCA switch on the front... pretty cool
Great review sir - "You might have to spend more than you'd expect to get the change you're hoping fior." Not necessarily, particularly, if you want an amp that does this, and sounds like this, and makes Taylor Swift sound like she's sitting on your lap 😀
They can easily power 4ohm sub woofer (s)
I enjoy your consistent and informative audiophile content! I am in Tokyo. The second hand market here is quite amazing! Though these Fosi amps are on my wish list now because of your overview and evaluations! Thanks 😅
Would be a lot of fun to have a strong second hand market, my area of the world is a bit limited there. Is the vintage market strong as well?
@@MattCoykendall1 I will send you a walk around video of the Hard Off store at Higashi Omiya Station Saitama about 37km from Tokyo Station going north. It’s an Aladdin’s cave of second hand Audiophile Audio both modern and vintage! It’s like going into a time warp. The supply of high end vintage second hand audio equipment is closely tied to the number of widows each year that unfortunately is rising fast in Japan! That supply is likely to increase over the next five to ten years. You could do quite a few videos on this one shop! Though there are many many more all over the Tokyo area.
@@MichaelRofehi Michael, I live in Tokyo, where else would you recommend?
There was a fantastic Hard Off near me when I lived in Shinjuku.
I’m looking forward hearing from you.
I have a Purifi Eigentact Eval 1 based amp which is a SOTA product and I would not hesitate to replace it with a couple of V3 Monos if, for some reason, the Purifi died and was beyond fixing. As it is, I'm probably going to be buying one or two of these for surround channels.
It would be awesome to update this with a head to head comparison after some time spent with the amps.
I’ve got these ordered, and will probably pair them with a Wiim Ultra. Should be a pretty nice setup for my streaming + turntable needs.
Same here. The Wiim Ultra with two V3 Monoblocks looks like a pretty nice set-up!
Has anyone an idea you get a good sound with the NE5532 (setting at 50%) how it changes with different OPs like a LME49720, OPA1612, MUSE or SparkOS ones. What is your experience? How much influence does it have. Does it become better than the NAD 2xx amplifiers?
Can't give you a NAD comparison, sorry.
But op-amps are not the big and fancy deal people make of them.
The ne5532 is the most counterfeited chip on the market right now. Why anyone would rebrand other chips to fake a $0.50 chip is beyond me, but the supply streams are polluted with fakes. (Fosi, at least uses TI factory direct chips, so no fakes)
So the result is that your first swap, getting the 5532 out of there will sometimes make quite a difference. I typically replace them with RC4558d chips (also 50 cent part) when I open the amp casings. But beyond that initial swap you're unlikely to hear any profound differences. The Op-Amps are used at or near unity gain as phase splitters for the inputs to the TPA3255. Swapping in a $70.00 chip just doesn't make sense in these little mini-amps.
Are they Nippon KY series caps?
I always look forward to your videos. You're making me forget that it's 30 degrees outside. LOL The British Audiophile gave the original V3 a highly recommend, so I'm sure these sound great too. And thank you for not using the word caramelly.
Cold here too! We had snow the other day.
There is no mention about the price, so how much is it for each?
I just bought a Fosi Audio V3 because it was the latest version and all. ~3 Months later, it has been obsoleted by the V3 Rev2, ZA3, and now these (though I really am not into mono amps). FFS! They are spitting out revisions of these things faster than the last two models can get in stock. The V3 Rev2 thing actually pissed me off because they fixed the "pre-out" to be on the volume control and they spit that one out like a week after I bought the original model 😡🤬.
I put some money down for a ZA3 in Feb 24 as they were sold out. Then i got cold feet and pulled out and explained to Fosi that if they brought out monobloc version of the ZA3 with XLR and stuff then i'd definitely buy. They replied quickly to say that they'd be releasing that very thing in early April. And they did! Fosi really do seem to listen to their customers - although the downside being (as you've pointed out) that they release too many upgraded models too quickly. This might backfire on them as people will just hold off from purchasing the new releases. Can't wait to see what preamp they've got line-leveled up for us, mind you.
I'd like to see you review an affordable tube preamp that would mate well with these little monsters.
Fosi P3...?
Very informative, thank you for the video.
Seems that the V3 mono is going to be the "next big thing", at least until the WiiM Ultra comes around. Maybe that will be the winning combination...
I am looking forward to trying out the combo
Never watched ur channel before, but since you mentioned u have some hi-end stuff ( just to clarify, been at this for 53+ years and have owned everything under the sun. Scales have fallen from my eyes last year when I dummied onto ASR!) what do you have that's even remotely close for the price (yes, waiting on mine from kickstarter, gotta have 'em gotta have ;em!!) and what are/is they/that. We don't have dog's ears, although that might be nice, so,trying to be objective
I am wondering about those op-amps. To my mind they are part of a pre-amp stage. So this is still an integrated but no attenuator. It is always on full blast. I'd feel like I was daisy chaining using these with another pre-amp.
I don’t think your far off on that thought but it does appear though my subjective and also others objective testing that it’s a really clean unaltered sound, it’s an interesting thought though.
Every power amp has some sort of pre-amp built in. The TPA3255 chip is not a complete amplifier. It is analogous to the output stage in a Class-AB amplifier and doesn't have enough gain to take line input levels directly.
The TPA3255 chip is fixed gain at 21.5db (11x voltage gain). It is intended to be driven by balanced pro-level audio signals. This is not enough gain to get the amplifier to full output on consumer equipment without some pre-amplification. With a 48 volt supply it takes about 4 volts of signal to clip the outputs... add a 6db gain stage (2x voltage) and you get that down to 2 volts... add another 6db stage and you're down to 1 volt, which is more or less the industry standard line level. (hence the gain switch on the back)
I will say that I'm not a fan of "flat out" amplification like this. I would have preferred they build an amp with 36db fixed gain and have an attenuator adjustment on the back panel to allow you to fine tune the amp to your situation. (People who think volume controls are somehow evil, simply don't understand why they are necessary.)
The presence of op-amps or an attenuator in a power amplifier does not make it an integrated amplifier. Except for a very few low powered designs..nearly all power amplifiers are what we call multi-stage design that use a separate voltage gain stage and current gain to achieve its output power. The op-amps used in all these class D amplifiers are the "voltage gain" stage that feeds the 325x chip which functions as the current gain stage. Hope this helps
So the big question and missing, How does it sound compared to Za3 mono and Aiyima07 Max in mono?
I think the biggest thing I want to highlight is that the v3 mono sounds predictable vs previous designs that could greatly vary depending on the crossover network on the speaker. Easiest way to describe how this sounds in my opinion is to describe the characteristics of the speaker it’s connected to as these will be quite true to the source, little if any coloration.
I had a aiyima 07 max ..and it s*cks..I bought it because of the good reviews, but it is not worth the money.
@svdk81 I have the AIYIMA A07 MAX with Muses02 and sounds much better than Fosi V3 with Sparkos ss3602
@@tonym8358 Well then i think fosi is also not a good buy:)
@@tonym8358 I have the same: A07 MAx mono blocks with Muses02. Superb sound! The Muses02 made a big difference.
Pardon the stupid question; but how do I turn my music down, if there is no volume knob?
It will be at the device connected to this serving as a preamp, could be a streamer like a WiiM or a more traditional preamp.
@@MattCoykendall1 - Thanks!
Inductor locking very small. How hot is this when have 48 volt and 5A power
I'm using the V 3 A, the stereo version. I'm using it in mono to drive an 8" subwoofer in a sealed box configuration. With a preamp boosting the signal before feeding the V3.
Set at halfway on the dial (the big orange one), it's very effective.
😅
I'm reviewing the V3 stereo amp. So far it's great except for one thing, which is the input volume seems too low. I have to set the volume to 3/4, in order not to have my pre-amp past 3/4 as well. Other reviews mention the same thing. These new amps are an improvement over the TB10D. Because I have dual subs, I'm happy to see amps that have outputs.
Hi Matt, could you give some more feedback on your thoughts of the signal sensing feature? Did it activate even at low volumes or did quiet music not suffice to keep the amps on? Thanks!
Hi Matt, I was wondering if you were having any noise issue using the single power supply now that you have had it for a while? One reviewer commented on that and I thought it was just a fluke, but there’s a another recent reviewer that couldn’t review the sample because of the noisy power supply.. and they had to contact Fosi for replacement to finish the review.
This would match well with Fosi's new GaN 48V power supply and squeeze out every bit of performance from the stock monoblock.
These look great, but I already get great sound on my office system with a Fosi V3 driving Sony SSCS5 speakers. More than enough power, no hiss, no distortion. I don't see a reason to upgrade to these new ones since the V3 is already so good.
Don't need a screen on these. Get a PecanPi streamer/dac/preamp with XLR outs.
I have the old Fosi Audio P1 tube preamp for years (the 2021 product), I thinks it is the best pair for V3 mono.
i have both 2 aymaa 07 max and 2 fois audio za3 amps, they have 2 different anfide NE5532 opamps but they are not the same fosi is more tiring, ayma minutes are not tiring, I think they use low quality opamps, the most beautiful is that you buy the original NE5532 from mouser or digikey, the sound is very nice, definitely the original is of better quality and does not tire your ear, and OPA2134 and LM4562, the opamps are very nice and I ordered muses 02, but they haven't arrived yet, so I haven't been able to test.
FWIW .... NE5532 Op Amps are available from suppliers for about $0.30 each.
Yes, they're cheap op-amps.... almost the cheapest available. But that is not the cause of listener fatigue and replacing them with other op-amps has almost no effect on the sound (except those imagined during listening tests).
The actual source of listener fatigue in these mini-amps is the output filters... the coils and caps used to recover the amplified audio from the PWM stream. If the coils are under-rated (most are) or the caps are of poor quality, you will get saturation effects that are clearly audible.
And when I say "clearly audible" I mean from the coils themselves! Hook up to a couple of dummy loads, play music through the amplifier at higher volume levels and you're likely to hear a very distorted version coming from the output coils.
That is saturation, it causes the coils to lose effect and vibrate due to internal resistance... and although speakers tend to totally drown this out, the distortion it causes is in the final outputs and, even if not heard as a distinct artifact, it can degrade the listening experience quite substantially.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Yes, in a way, I agree with what you said, let me explain it very simply, I first listened to Fosi Audio ZA3 in stereo mode and said it tired my ears, then I listened to it with Ayima 07 Max for a while and I said it didn't tire my ears. By the way, there are standard NE5532 Oopamps in 2 amplifiers, and both amplifiers are tiring. The NE5532 opamps in the amplifier are made in different countries, the ones on the Fosi audio ZA3 are made in Mexico, the NE5532s on the Ayima 07 max are made in China, by the way, the opamps are not fake, I think there is a quality difference between them due to production, then I installed the American made NE5532ADRs that I bought from digikey, they are much better quality in detail. I heard a sound and it did not tire my ears at all. If it was caused by the amplifier itself, it would have disturbed my ears in the same way in every opamp. I recommend you to try it this way as well, original opamps always work well.
i recommend that you review this link below
ua-cam.com/video/vrSrQjelziI/v-deo.html
@@SERKAN_HOT34
Yes that's a possibility. But I seriously doubt it's the answer.
Straight up... the NE5532 is a pretty crappy Op-Amp to begin with. Almost anything else will work better. I routinely replace them with RC4558d chips to avoid the possibility of fakes slipping into the supply stream and, while I don't notice a significant improvement in sound quality, my test gear does show me a small reduction in distortion.
On the other end of this, I can definitely see and hear coil saturation in many of these smaller amplifiers. They're typically using coils rated for 4 amps of current with surprisingly thin wire, in an output stage that can get up to 8 or even more. You can actually hear it, just by listening to them on dummy loads. The sound comes directly from the coils themselves.
@@SERKAN_HOT34 Thanks for the advice. I’ve looked on Digikey website for the NE5532ADR, but on the product photo, they have these strange legs that don’t look like they would fit into the V3M’s sockets, or do they have raisers included where this would be solved?
Would like to see how these compare in audio fidelity to other top audio amps just to see where land and how they stack-up in the audiophile world.
Nice review. Curious--where can you pick up one of those clear/chrome component stands shown around the 3:21 mark?
I have 2x ZA3 2x 48v PSU. Brand new unopened. Anyone think I should just keep or sell and get the new mono amps?
Keep the power supplies ... replace the amplifiers
No
It would be nice if they put the little clicks and notches in the volume.And the very least of sent her details for the basin travel
I've already seen two reviewers that had a noise issue with the 10A power supply. One of them advised against it right out, the other contacted Fosi and they are sending him another power splitter. I guess yours was not noisy?
Absolutely no noise on mine, that’s interesting, hopefully a bad batch.
I doubt it's the splitter cable for the power supply. It's more likely an issue of "Cross Feed" between the amplifiers themselves. They're not synchronizing the TPA3255 clocks and from what I heard there is some interference going on between them.
Best bet... just run the setup on a pair of 36 volt 5 amp supplies. They'll run cooler and no crossfeed with more than enough power for a home-audio setup.
Right, I would be curious for them to try to remove the splitter and just go into a single amp and see if it replicates the problem.
@@MattCoykendall1
Yep ... that would be one way to isolate the problem.
I grabbed 2 and with 2 power supplies. 48v 5a units , I feel the separate psu will be better in my opinion.
Excellent review. Thank you!
They are moving in the right direction but features, package, and price wise this is a pretty confusing product. With 150 + watts on tap this tiny form factor makes little sense, nobody needs this much power on their desk so it would make more sense to build a full sized component in dual mono configuration with the power supply built in. Also without a pre-amp to pair it with this a half baked product release, Fosi needs to settle down on these release and think these designs out more and just sit on something if they have to so they have a more complete product stack that makes sense. As it is right now we have three amps that are so close to the same thing difficult to differentiate them and now one you need to buy two of and turn to a third party to even use. The last problem here is price, sure you get a lot of clean power for the money but again you are going to need a pre-amp and DAC, or DAC that can function as a pre-amp which Fosi doesn't even offer but regardless you are going to be in $300+ minimum which is Yamaha S301 or Cambridge AXA35 territory and frankly I think I'd rather have either of those.
Lastly the load dependency issue is way overblown. Yes, it should be addressed because technically its a "problem" but the likely hood of it being audible at all is pretty small let alone a major issue. If anything its amps based on the TI3255 and Infineon MA5332MS that ironically no post output filter to correct for load dependency that broke the mold (for me atleast) of having harsh unrealistic highs on previous more expensive class D which do not exhibit this load dependency "issue".
FWIW .... small amp does not mean small speakers. I run an A07 on a pair of Pioneer towers and the sound is amazing.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Yeah, I know. I powered a set of 8" transmission line towers with a V3 with great results just to see. I didn't use it long term for that because of lack of features and I have other amps that make more sense and look better in the space. I think the V3 and ZA3 make the most sense where you are limited in space, or just on a budget yet still need power for hard to drive speakers. These monoblock versions though the form factor and given you need two (getting fairly expensive) and a pre-amp starts to call into question who / what they are actually for.
@@PhillioDoede
What you use for your own system is entirely up to you.
For myself I've built a miniature HTPC driven system using an Intel NUC and an A07 that fits in an empty drawer cavity in my TV stand. Runs a pair of Pioneer Towers and works like a blessing.
Who are these for? People who aren't fooled by audiophile markups but still want decent sound quality...
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Nobody cares what your or my use case is, its what makes sense to most peoples use case. Monoblock amplifiers are a pretty specific use case and without a pre-amp its failed product launch in my opinion. Fosi already nailed the very good cheap power with the ZA3. With the V3 Mono Fosi is forcing you to buy two and add a third component for the pre-amp. For the money a setup built around these amps is going to cost someone looking for the value play is better of with S301 or AXA35. If Fosi wants to go up scale the form factor needs to change and there has to be a pre-amp to match the power amp. As it is this amplifier just doesn't make any sense.
@@PhillioDoede
I don't entirely disagree with you ... but you can easily pair these with the P3 pre-amp (which people will already have) or any source device with it's own volume control.
Monoblocks do make sense in "high end" systems. There really is something to be said for totally independent amplifier channels. For the average Joe, not so much, as you point out it's just more stuff on your shelf.
But my concerns are orbiting around the reports of heat and noise... things that are actually wrong with the design itself.
Time will tell how it all turns out....
What is the device with the 2 analog meters in the video
Um... what IS the price?
The fact that Fosi made a mono amp, I highly suspect they will follow with a matching preamp.
They made the M03 which is now 5 years old... and no pre-amp.
Provide RMS power rating, not just peak power rating!
5:40 ... those are RMS power ratings.
Can those be connected to a Wiim Pro Plus without a pre amp ? Will i be able to control the volume through the wiim?
Yes, the WiiM can serve as the preamp/streamer in that case.
I’m new to this whole thing. Why is monoblock desirable?
Monoblocks have 2 primary advantages...
First you are working with two fully isolated channels so less crosstalk and intermodulation distortion, which will improve the overall sound of your system.
Second you are working with two fully isolated power supplies so that a big burst in one channel does not affect the other channel's output.
Of course the second point is only true if you actually do have two separate power supplies. Fosi's Y cable pretty much undoes that part.
It's maybe a good amp, but doesn't worth its price.
Buying a TPA3255 amp with $140 is insane. TPA3255 module only worth $15. Then the case worths over $100?
What so called PFFB is just a few caps and resistors suggested in the TI datasheet.
Not insane at all ... the TPA3255 is also found in $5,000 studio monitors and some high end stereo gear.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Yes, only insane people would buy that! I know that Chinese company very well. Do the application directly by the application note from Texas Instrument, and add some marketing gimmick. American easy money!
@@Douglas_Blake_579 American easy money.
Great amp and review/information. I do wonder how the long time durability is on these Texas circuits. Performance/price/durability?
The TPA3255 chip is a piece of pro-audio gear, it's made to last and fully self-protecting. Properly implemented, it is fully capable of stunning performance.
The rest of the circuitry in these little amps is highly variable. If the manufacturer cut corners with cheap coils or borderline parts it will be hard to predict.
Don't be fooled by the low prices. That is a result of low parts counts, mass production and companies not taking audiophile level markups more than anything else.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Thanks. Nice to hear that it won’t degrade as other cheap amps. Kickstarter next… Keep up your great work.
Thank you Matt. My next purchase...in a couple of weeks(I'm saving up).
Hope you enjoy it!
@@MattCoykendall1 Thanks Matt.
Why i need 10 items for system.. omg 😂
You don't. But this is one of many options available.
Just wanted to mention that Fosi say that they are confident that they will sort out the noise issues with the dual psu before launch and if they don't they will substitute two 48/5 psus.
Also they have met the stretch goals and are offering free cables and a free Muses02 op amp. In addition their price for a Muses02 op amp, at £21 is considerably lower than in the UK. You will need 4 op amps, so if you order three with your V3 mono you are getting a very good deal.
The noise issue on the V3M is inter-chip interference. If you look at the review on Erin's Audio Corner you will find the distortion jumps almost 10db with both amps on the Y connector ... a sure sign of instability. Aaron at Analog Forever ran into heat and noise problems as well. It is likely they were oscillating at some frequency well above human hearing.
The TPA3255 data sheet warns about this and the chip itself has special master/slave modes to mitigate the problem. Unfortunately with the two chips in separate chassis, it is impossible to implement the necessary M/S modes.
The answer here is to not try to run two of them from a single supply. People should deliberately order separate supplies.
My recommendation, based on the cooling and power is that two 36 volt 5 amp supplies would be your best compromise for performance and longevity.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Interesting. I did indeed order two power supplies as it just seemed to make sense in order to reduce interference, though I went for the 48/5 to give a little extra headroom. I guess we will see what happens after they start to roll out deliveries. Folks will soon complain if there are audible issues, or PSUs start to fail.
@@jimfarrell4635
You will be okay with 2 x 48/5 supplies. But where you will get into trouble is if you start pushing hard and getting really loud. They will heat up a lot more than they would with 2 x 36/5 supplies. You may get some protection shut downs that won't happen with the lower voltages.
Having one PS for two amp is idiotic. That defeats the whole purpose of having mono blocks in the first place. It’s NOT mono blocks if the PS is shared!!!
You can get separate PS the dual is just an option.
You simply just get 2 quality supplys 😮
But why? There’s no crosstalk issue with a shared presignal power supply. And if the power going into the amp is adequate, there is no negative. It’s not like more power from the wall is inherently better after a certain point.
@@Zaotar1
Stop and think about it for a minute ...
You have a power brick with about 3 feet of cable, leading up to a Y connector with another 2 or 3 feet of cable ... all this wire has resistance, which opens a door to crossfeed between the amplifiers.
Lets say the left channel takes a big hit from some special effect ... because of the wire resistance it is possible it would actually draw power from the right channel instead of the power supply.
Another possibility is that high frequency clock pulses from one amplifier can crossfeed into the other amplifier affecting it's stability. For multi-chip designs the TPA3255 requires that clock signals are synchronized, that's not happening here.
With two independent supplies neither of these problems exist. The two channels operate independently and something in one channel is not going to affect the other channel.
Finally ... 1 10 amp supply or 2 5 amp supplies will draw roughly the same amount of power... 480 watts peak.
But you would say the same thing for the 110 coming from the wall. Single wire. The only difference is that it’s stepped down to 48V once, rather than twice. And to my knowledge amps don’t project information backwards into that high voltage power. The amplified signal forward, yes, but a normal power supply shouldnt change the signal unless it’s too little power. Above a threshold the pre-signal power doesn’t matter, it doesn’t vary with load. You are always going to have enough voltage on tap.
After all you’ve got 110v going into the power supply. The psu doesn’t need to drop because of what the amps are doing at a low voltage; it has tons of excess pouring in at all times. If somebody could demonstrate it with tests that would be one thing, but I doubt they could.
I'm not sure I understand this entire mono block craze. Sure, I understand the performance of having dedicated circuitry for a channel. What I don't understand is why these need to be in two discrete housings that you buy one at a time. No one is actually buying mono setups. I guess it's possible you could do some sort of weird surround setup, buying one channel at a time, but I'm not sure how you're orchestrate that. So basically all of these setups are for stereo. In which case, why not simply put the hardware into a single case, and sell a complete solution? Perhaps people just like having as many components as possible to accomplish the task. Some sort of neo-steampunk sort of vibe? Or perhaps it feels like it costs less because you're buying multiple cheaper units instead of one more expensive unit?
excellent video, specially for someone like me who's designing a custom TPA3255 amplifier with PFFB and high quality components:
in switching controllers like in a SMPS, feedback is utilized to stabilize the control loop and make it closed-loop instead of open-loop. My mentor in power electrics always tells me that there is no control in open-loop converters!
So, Class-D amplifiers are a bit similar to switch mode power supplies (SMPS) but the conversion from analog to digital introduces modulation errors and so forth, plus if you desire that the input is faithful to the output with some linear gain, the only way to achive this is to have a feedback loop on the outside the LC filter, thus PFFB, or Post Filter Feedback! What I'm trying to get is that PFFB is also a means of increasing this stability problems and can make a control system faster, but if bad components are used with non-linearities, you will see worse THD, which is a nightmare.
_"but the conversion from analog to digital introduces modulation errors"_
Except there is no analog to digital conversion in a PWM amplifier.
Nice review. What did you front end them with?
I was testing out a new review product the FX audio DS07
Very bad solution 😂
Very bad comment 😂
@@KXP70 how to control sound on this brick? 😄
@@andrews4379 any preamp or even a dac with variable output.
@@KXP70 I don't need preamp, I need amp.. simple
@@andrews4379 then this product isn't for you. That doesn't make this a bad solution, just bad for you.
I've had multiple bad experiences with SMSL product reliability, have read of issues with Topping reliability, and so lump Fosi in with those Chinese brands in terms of not trusting in its reliability..
That would be a mistake ... but it's up to you.
I've sold Class-D amps from China that have been in daily use for 4 and 5 years in my friends setups... never had a problem.