Not only must individual power supplies be used, but for best stereo separation, different power sources are needed. Speak with your utility to find out what they can provide. At the very least, you’ll need a different drop from the pole supplying your house. If you’re truly audiophile, a separate house should power each amp. Speak with your neighbors. Either some accommodation can be reached or you can buy their home for the Right monobloc.
You also need most expensive energy tariff from your provider - everyone knows that expensive electricity is much better quality. Avoid any budget, off peak or fixed tariffs - they use poor quality electricity on these ;)
The problem with most aspiring audiophiles is that by the time they get to their ultimate system, their hearing range cuts off at 12kHz and the acoustic inbalance between their ears becomes exaggarated, but at that point in life they have the funds that they didn't have when they could hear a 17kHz tone.😅
Not related but I need help with something and I still don’t find the right answer. I’ve a turntable and a Phono-preamp NAD PP2E how do I put a couple of this monobloc and get Volume Control for the whole system?
@@ivokegevic361 Generally your phono pre-amp needs to feed a line level stereo pre-amplifier that in turn feeds the monoblocks. The volume control will be in the stereo pre-amp. Since we're talking about Fosi products, look up the P3, which seems quite popular. so you end up with the chain of Turntable -> Phono Amp -> P3 -> 2 x v3 Mono -> 2 x speakers. Another choice is one of the passive volume controls. These are basically a knob in a box and can be quite inexpensive. The online vendors will have several versions, just use it instead of the P3.
Algorithms interpreting my voracious appetite for more information on the Fosi V3 monoblocks led me here. I enjoyed the pacing, clear explanations and self deprecating humor. Subscribed on the spot!
Fosi audio amps costed so little that I bought 4 ZA3 running as mono block in bi-amp bi-wire configuration driving my pair of first generation Sonus Faber Elector Amator, It costed me a total of US$320 only and my speaker has never been sounding so amusing. The sound stage is huge and instrument separation is superb. Deep bass flow like wave pounding the beach. Class-D amps has improved tremendously over the years indeed.
not since Martin Logan and Benchmark entered the scene. Dac3, L4a and the AHB2 with summit's or EM-ESL, doubt is not part of the audiophile equation anymore.
@@marxman00 well, they say that the ahb2 is probably the last amp you'll ever buy and after living with it for a while, I think it might be so. the dac3 is a masterpiece, used to produce maybe half of all music coming out today. the Martin logan's are as accurate as you need. LA4 i just heard and heard about, but with S/N specs that are BELOW those of the AHB2 that's the end of the road the most perfect line-amp possible.So yeah, in a perfect world it would be the end, but in the world of audio marketing most consumers follow a fairy tale fantasy. I am an audio purist and want to come as close as possible to what the master sounds like, Who needs added coloration to the sound, or less detail so you can't hear mistakes in the master-mix or bad recordings? That means you can spend 100tk's of $ to change what the producer and artist meant? that's silly and a waste of money. All the specs and tests are free to download on the benchmark website, check them out and let me know what you think.
Yes, ASR seems to have become everyone’s go to. That said, I’m glad you liked them. I ordered them with two 48V5A power supplies for two reasons: 1. That’s the version they sent to ASR so it probably has the best measurements 😊, and 2. I have a typical guitarist’s fear that shared power can be noisier than isolated. No one said these decisions were well founded.
Not everyone's go to. I'm going to ask you something and its not meant to offend you in any way. I'm just trying to raise and issue that most people overlook. Audio Science Review claims to use science when evaluating or testing equipment. Its their middle name. If you want to learn something about what science is, or isn't, go to ASR's channel and find 1 instance where he uses real science in one of his videos. Any video he has ever made. Just find one example. The fastest and easiest way to build a youtube channel is by telling people what they want to hear. "Don't buy this for $1000, get this one for $100 instead. Its just as good, if not better.". That's exactly what the average person wants to hear. The guy is a hero. He just saved you $900, and he proved it using science. But did he really do science? I was able to prove that what he does, is not even close to doing real science. I would have you read my posts on his channel, but he deletes them the second he sees them. The only reason you delete a post is because you don't want anyone to read it. If I was wrong, he would leave them up and use them as examples. So, if you pick one of his videos and show me where you think he's doing real science, I'll prove to you he's not.
It does not matter if we are talking about rf amplifiers or audio amplifiers feedback is a very good system to use. In almost every case you end up with an amplifier that is more stable. The people that think they do not like it are likely the same idiots paying £1000 per foot for cableing!! Filtering is a must with Class D. I think that very few audiophiles will be using Fosi Audio componets because they are affordable, work and lack exclusivity. So with all of that said since audiophiles will not be using them it really does not matter what that group of people thinks of this filtering system. Again give me a blindfold and I will give you a humbled fool that thinks he is an audiophile! So long as the filtering exceeds what the brain of 98% of people can discern it is almost as good as 100% analog. The ear and the brain are not as discerning as most audiophiles think they are. Everyone knows what they like but almost none of them understand why they like what they like!
Nah. Human hearing is more complex than a few of your favorite measurements can represent. Perception is every bit as irreducible as consciousness. The signal that goes through the least manipulation to get amplified to the listening level will sound the most natural. Feedback might add operational stability but its at the cost of entropy to the signal
@@PlaybackMansion The key word is "perception". The act of perception involves judgement, which is unique to each person. Humans do not directly "hear" sound. That is the problem. A calibrated mic and scope will, within it's margin of error, consistently give the same results. A human cannot.
One point to add regarding power supply of a mono block vs a stereo power amp: If we want to get full performance from a channel, we would need to double the power supply. I.e. the equivalent of a 200 watt single stereo power supply would be a 200 watts power supply for each monoblock. Other wise, the peak power of a kick on the left or right only channel channel will be limited by -3 dB. This is because on a stereo Amp it can use a double avaliable power from the power supply. When kick is in the center there is no ( theoretical) difference.
"How will people know you're an audiophile? Now that's important". Classic humour as usual, I hope everyone else enjoys your style as much as I do. I can remember, I think, back in the 1970’s when the term “audiophile” wasn’t bandied about amongst us common folk as much as you hear it now, even though it came into use in the 1950’s. Such people were generally referred to by the hoi polloi as “hi fi enthusiasts” - the rest of us just owned stereos. Anyway, back then many major companies that produced high end gear also produced more budget level models for us “stereo enthusiasts”. I can recall reading of an interesting phenomena cited by an “audio expert” that this practice did not greatly enthuse the “hi fi enthusiasts” as they were liable to meet a “stereo enthusiast” who tried to engage them on an equal audio appreciation level simply because they both owned gear manufactured by the same company, one at the bottom end of the market the other, well, top end gear. Anyway this “audio expert” speculated that this led to the rise of “hi fi enthusiasts” buying their expensive gear from more obscure manufacturers who did not commit the sin of producing budget models. This of course was one way that people would know that you were a “hi fi enthusiast” (audiophile) - "You’ve got a "Whatsamuchi" Power Amp - wow!!"
I would probably describe myself as a hi-fi enthusiast, but in the sense of enjoying the concepts and techniques. I don't need a pile of fancy equipment personally but anyone who does, I'd say go for it (if you can afford it).
@@AudioMasterclass Just a bit of fun, my mistake, I thought you might find my comment at least slightly amusing, maybe not so. Such is life, of course, deep down, don't I passionately wish I could afford it, in typical male fashion, even if my old ears may not completely appreciate it.
@@straymusictracksfromdavoro6510it’s less about the “gear” and more about the music production and talent behind it (musicianship, the music itself). Test your gear with known great mastering and music. It should sound great regardless of budget… Then Demand better mastering less clipping and distortion due to loudness wars if the gear is great regardless of budget if it’s poorly mastered it will not sound any better or at least slightly better (maybe even worse if it’s revealing). Save your ears if you’re younger. That’s the best (proven) advise any of us older folks can tell from life experience. You’ll have a longer time to appreciate what you are hearing then and remember great sound starts from the source!
One correction here: Crosstalk does exist in digital data transmission, especially if wires run very long. It's the very reason all Ethernet cables consist of twisted wire pairs. Digital crosstalk does not translate to overspeaking into another channel like it does with analog audio. It will simply corrupt data packets, requiring them to be dropped and retransmitted.
Digital data is subject to all kinds of interference but if it is corrupted and not error corrected I suspect that audio crosstalk would the least of the problems.
Ooh, you cheeky git. Bang on release too! I've just slapped down the kickstarter money on a pair of these - cos of FOMO. I'm not an audiophile really but have *ahem* come into possession of a Nelson Pass pre and power amp (the latter of which blows my domestic power if i don't turn it on properly) and a pair of these little things should sort that out and be all i really need. Plus i went for THE ORANGE KNOB!
Never had crosstalk in a power amp. I've had it in preamps and in mic mixers .... back in the day. My AB STEREO amp is really dual mono hand has separate power switches so really more like and no crosstalk monoblocks. These cheap amps will be hated by audiophiles!
I prefer one decent stereo amp above two less decent mono amps. There will be a difference between two mono amps and a stereo amp which uses extactly the same mono amps, as you discribed, but the difference between a good amp and a not so good amp will be much bigger. Where is the hum comming from in the first 10 minutes or so of this video?
I think that these amplifiers have had more reviews come out at the same time as any I have ever seen. Concerning the split power supply brick, some of the other reviews said there were strange noises coming out of the amplifiers not overall distortion but, noise that would come & go. One reviewer switched to two 32V power supplies that he already owned & he said the noises stopped. It appears from your review you didn't have this issue, correct? I just discovered your channel today & must say I like your presentation style & subscribed, thanks.
Luckily, I saw the videos you're referring to and updated my order to separate power blocks. Lol I would have been PISSED if I waited out the 2 months and shipment from hong kong just to get weird noises and shit. Apparently theyre shipping out on 6/15 with a free MUSES02 chip for free
Because you would otherwise need to make detailed, accurate measurements or conduct extensive listening tests. Cables same length = a whole lot easier.
It should also be noted that the PWM leakage on David's scope is going to be for one side of the PBTL bridge... However; the pulses on both sides of the bridge are in phase and thus produce no output and will never harm a speaker.
I'm amazed at how tiny power amps are these days! My two retro power amps from the 1980s (stereo amps in bridged mono mode) together are the size of a small dorm fridge. And, no, they're not tube amps, either (I never bought into the "magic warmth" of tubes, even when I was young and naive).
I bought a Za3 stereo unit based on your evaluation. I use it to drive an 8" homemade subwoofer . That subwoofer is part of a 14-channel system using 2 Yamaha receivers one a 7 channel unit and the other a 11 channel unit. For base, I have 9 powered subwoofers. The more the merrier. 😮😅
Regarding instant auto-on switches, I find them to be inadequate in terms of their response time. I own a set of powered subwoofers equipped with such switches, and they tend to turn on and off unexpectedly, particularly at lower volume levels or when transitioning between older and newer recordings. This can be very annoying!
Fantastic sarcasm of the higest order, and great review. Thank you and well done. Serious question though, is there a definitive answer to whether shorter speaker cables and longer interconnects is better or vice versa?
unless we're talking about 1km long cables or cables as thin as a hair, it doesn't really matter much. Sure speakers have a very low impedance and amp input should have a high impedance, so technically speaker cables benefit more from being thicker and shorter, but in real world use, when we're talking about just a few meters, as long as your speaker cables are fairly thick (I'd say AWG 16-14 / 1.5mm2 or thicker), it should be enough so that you don't hear any difference.
@@bgravato A good rule of thumb is to target a damping factor of >50 for an 8 Ohm speaker, assuming 0.05 Ohms of source impedance in the amplifier itself. Following this guideline would permit no more than 12.6m (41 feet) for 11 AWG cable.
@@gracenotes5379 you're right, I might have exaggerated quite a bit when I said 1km... for speakers there's much less room than for line level signals, though like you said under 10-12m (with thick enough wires) it's negligible. I'd say that in most home user cases the speakers wires are probably under 5-6m, so getting the amp(s) really close to the speakers is not going to have a noticeable impact... Of course for a true audiophile if there's a 0.00001% theoretical chance of improvement, they'd be willing to spend thousands in it!
My understanding is that mono blocks are a product from the mono to stereo transition. People had mono set up. So company sold them the other half. And now it’s just an audiophile “that’s the way we do it”. This is not against bi-amping or anything. Just don’t like doing things unquestioned.
Q: "How do you know there is an audiophile at your party?" A: He will tell you Q: " What is the difference between an audiophile and God?" A: God doesn't think he is an audiophile.
We used to laugh in the 1980s a British company used to make slave power amps we used on the dj circuit, straight forward mosfet power amps two seperate circuits and power supplies in one case using Hitachi top end mosfets. What you got was hifi enthusiast slagging these amps off and explaining how their amps that played natural sound were so superior, when we explained natural sound from a straight slave amp is nothing like they hear that their amps of the decade had the EQ response set on the boards they could not comprehend but what were we, we were some of the industrial electricians that designed the circuits for many of the straight slave amps. At the time we were also some of the first to use bi amping instead of crossovers it gave us more control over the acoustics of a venue. I still have ten slave amps using the hitachi mosfets from the early 80s all working fine today in RMS none of the mickey mouse ratings used by some asian products of today.
I must be unusual in having just the one monoblock amplifier. My radio set consists of just three things: A 1957 Leak Trough-Line VHF/FM tuner [with variable output for volume control, so no pre-amp is used], a Quad II Forty and a 1957 Quad ESL. So either extremely vintage or fairly modern but old school. Surprisingly this radio sounds very good, even in mono! My digital and LP side works a glorified sound bar, but recordings seem less important to me than great live broadcasts [or delayed relays] of real concerts. Some are sublime and some are less so, but the great ones make up for the less fine .... And you can always turn it off! I don't think of myself as an audiophile though. Best wishes from George in Herefordshire. PS: My speaker cable is from Maplins. Six feet of it cost me slightly less than £10 a few years ago. My interconnect is one of those maroon colour Chord RCA terminated cable, which I was given a pair of for nothing!
@@AudioMasterclass Thank you kindly! I reckon the Q II Forty is rather an unrated amp. Not very powerful into low impedance speakers, though fine on the ESL, which amazingly is still nearly mint as it runs well towards seventy years old! The ESL was completely serviced in 2016 at Huntingdon, and I bought it for the price of the servicing! And the old wireless was one of the very best of the time, -thoroughly rebuilt in 2019. As the repairman said of it. "Aye! not a bad old radio!" From him that was high praise indeed. As for the rest it performs satisfactorily and is pleasingly free of any special quality or oddities, though it does not rival the sheer beauty that the radio set produces on a good concert. Best wishes from George
4:46 well, IIRC joint-stereo does cause a bit of cross talk in the digital domain, the mid-side encoding itself is perfectly reversible, but when paired with lossy compression some of the data does leak between channel As always the difference is inaudible and the increase in compression efficiency joint stereo brings is great
This is a good point that I neglected. I think I'll constrain my comment on digital crosstalk to non-data-reduced audio. Joint stereo is something I may look at in a future video.
Great video again. I agree, speaker cables should be same length. I like your 'matter of fact ' style. It is obvious you put great effort into your reviews. Subscribing now. Thanks.
If you're thinking that they should be the same length to avoid any delay on the signal getting to the other speaker... think again! Electricity travels near speed of light, so even if they were 100m difference in length you still wouldn't be able to perceive the delay... On the other hand, if you're thinking about the wire resistance, that could be more relevant, but still pretty irrelevant if you use thick enough wires
Another excellent video. I'm so glad to hear that the album of unboxing music will be released into the wild later in the year. I'll use it to fry my (imaginary) ESL-63s!
Thanks again for a wonderful review! I purchased the two FOSI amps and two 48 volts power supply. Now the power output is a little overstated. Curious that the amps provide power, but not current. I’m also a big supporter of high current amps and I have two “very old” HK mono blocks. They’re also small. “Comparatively speaking.” I’ve just received the FOSI amps Sioux have not tested them side by side.
I've been using these amps with my Yamaha NS10M Studio monitors since I got them for review, albeit with the single power supply. They live under my desk, nothing to see and nothing not to like. I think I can safely say that any possibly better amp will not make the slightest different to the quality of my work.
@@AudioMasterclass I understand with a small near field monitor they’d be perfect. However with a transmission line speaker that requires a lot of power and the impedance dips down they might perform differently. I should have clarified that.
All amplifiers sound the same to the human ear unless they go into clipping. At what point does clipping occur? That depends on the speakers, the room, the volume and the music. 50 watts per channel into 8 Ohms seems like a good minimum.
. You're oversimplifying. A "XLR connector" and "that input" are not singular parts. It's a few pieces, depending how it's counted. A "truly balanced connection" and NOT connector, begins with a power supply (unbalanced does not), a small powered PCB board (the opposite phasing) and a 3-pin outlet all mounted inside the source component. That's 3 parts needed to initiate a balanced connection. The cable consists of a 3-wire conduit, a male plug & a female plug. That's 3 more parts. Lastly is again the 3-pin outlet, a small attached PCB board (the un-phasing) and a power supply all mounted inside the recipient component. That makes 9 parts for a balanced connection. Understand that a truly balanced connection is very effective at noise reduction regardless of whether the component is "truly" balanced or not. Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpMyFi You are correct. My explicit mention of "truly/fully balanced" was intended to cover what you are referring to in the simplest terms possible so as not to confuse newbies.
@@michaelsparrow4798 . I see. So for the noobs, I'm gonna' put a cherry on top......................... All those 9ish parts I mentioned above are ONLY referencing the "balanced connection" function in an audio chain. A "balanced" or more specifically a "differential" component requires a whole host of different parts than mentioned above to be balanced. A balanced connection & a differential component are independent of each other. They are two different things. Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@michaelsparrow4798 . Here's a question for Michael. If one chooses to connect a preamplifier to a power amplifier via RCA or TRS, is it still balanced? Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Where does the background hum in this video come from? I watched quiet a couple of your vids, and i enjoy them, but that did not come accross me before. It fades away at 12:40.
@@AudioMasterclass you are having a great time on youtube don´t you :). I would not consider myself audiophile in a sense of - oh THAT IS how it should sound like. I am rather a music enjoyer and passionate dancer. Also i am not an audiophile in the case of money spend - i hear most of my music on PC with a 100€ HP/mic DAC/Amp, on a good enough for me headphone sub 300€, for i think seven years now - i still think its good and delivers the music i listen to, the way i like it. I just enjoy your content and the fun behind it and was wondering about the humming since, i just heard it the first time on your channel and was wondering where such a noise would come from. I guess why it jumped to my mind is because it kinda sounds like the noise the aquarium pump makes, that drives me crazy at home when its quiet, but my GF insists of having fishes - so no chance for me to get rid of that noice :D. Best regards :)
I can use my two Primare A34.2's as monoblocks but instead I use one of them for the bass and the other for the treble and midrange. I do that because I don't like that bridged power-amps get no power at all when the impedance gets low.
I like the Fosi products. They tend to be better than the recordings that will pass thru them. I have all manner of amplification, but these are very fair indeed. I'm more of a music head than audiophile. I can be swayed by different amps on any given day with the one that is closest to me at the time being a winner, regardless.
what about those of us with Active Crossovers? Are we excluded from being an Audiophile as we need a separate amplifier for each driver in the speaker. (in my case with my Axiom LFR1100 that has 5 different driver sets, I need 10 channels worth of amplification). So would we need individual mono blocks for each channel, or can we get away with a multi channel amplifier per speaker and still be considered an Audiophile? My gosh, it is going to get expensive to keep up with the requirements.
Am I one of a few people who has balanced audio as a normal in my home studio? If I were to run a balanced line to my mono block then use a box to unbalanced and match it to the amp would this work. I can imagine that this would rid me of any noise in transit between my output and input on the mono block. One block per each speaker channel. My set up seems to be destined to have a load of black boxes whilst I think they do have a positive outcome to the output still seem to be a large collection. It works and I'm dreading the day I move as I will have to write down where and how all these boxes fit together..... You would have appreciated a late studio engineer at a radio station I worked for a few years ago. I can only blame him for some of the quirks that my current studio has.
The main point of balancing is to reduce interference. In a living room or home studio there shouldn't be any interference bad enough to cause a problem. Living close to a radar installation can tip the scales though. (Nearly said 'tip the balance').
B&W DM100? What vintage? late 80s? early 90s? I have a pair of DM100i. In fact I remember the sales rep mentioning he sells them to musicians for use as small room monitors. Still sound great after 30+ years but wonder how recent makes/models might be different (or maybe updated/upgrade crossover components).
The Kickstarter Campaign allows for two 5 amp 48 volt power supply option I am looking forward to the Fosi Hypex amplifiers which should be out this year I am a sucker for the Kickstarter Campaigns Nice review
You can have any combination you like on the Kickstarter campaign - like 2* V3s with 2* 48v/10A power supplies. Curiously 2* V3s with 2* 48v/5A PS only has a 50 HKD price difference than with just 1* 48V/10A PS. Which leads me to believe the 10A PSU is a bit special,
David, yet another review with your style that brings a smile to the face! Keep them coming! Great that you mentioned output filtering as well, but you wonder if the output filtering in these Chinese products will make it through to series production. I’ve seen removal of these “unnecessary” components far too often, particularly in power supplies with the house wiring acting as a nice little antenna. What I want to know is what causes more electromagnetic interference the Class D amplifiers both beating their square-waves together nicely or the power supply(s)?
Electromagnetic interference is definitely a thing, even though there are standards that have to be adhered to. My bluetooth trackpad has phases where it drives me nuts, and I did suspect the Fosi amps on my desk, and their power supplies, but unless they radiate when they are unplugged from the mains it's something else.
A few reviewers across the web have stated that with just one power supply and the splitter cable running both monoblocks, they heard unwanted noises - that is humming, buzzing, etc. However, when using two separate power supplies, they stated that there was pure silence. Am going to be both curious and cautious about this. I won't buy them until they are officially announced, as they are still in the development stage on Kickstarter from what I've seen.
While I am not disputing anyone else's experience, I have the amp in front of me right now, powered up. I can put my ear right next to the speaker and I hear nothing.
Hello and congratulations on your interventions, some of which were very useful and clarifying. Others depend on who sees/listens. Regarding monoblocs, I have been using a tagmclaren 100x5r for a few years now. I've already tried the various configurations that this amplifier allows: simple stereo / 2 channels with bi-wiring / 4 channels with bi-amping on my b&w. I have no doubt - along with other people who have heard (without knowing it) that the last configuration is far superior to any of the others. Can you explain why? Thanks again
with bi wiring you connect your low-frequencie terminals of the speaker to you amp output, and the high frequency terminals of speaker to the same output of the amp, right? than the crossover inside your speaker still are connector together with the wires - they come together at the amplifier output (speaker terminals). with bi amping two different amp outputs are used, one amp to low freq input of speaker and the other to high freq. So the wires are not connected together anywhere, and there is no interference from the crossover inside the speaker
Maybe I can help a little bit here... In a basic Class-D amplifier, you need a low pass filter on the output to separate the audio from the PWM carrier. Traditionally this has been regulated by PWM feedback between the output transistors and the modulator in the amplifier. Post Filter Feedback incorporates a secondary audio feedback running essentially from the speaker connectors back to the audio input to the chip. This allows the amplifier chip to compensate for any errors in the output filter itself. While I doubt the grand sonic value of this, especially with a well designed filter, it does seem to have become a point of demand from perfectionist consumers.
Sometimes you need monos because you have big speakers. Sometimes these big speakers need bi amping to drive bass separate from mid/tweeter, sometimes you need to tri amp to further separate the tweeter. It's all in the design. But I watched PS audios latest post and the big reason for monos was to help avoid compression of dynamic range that happens in an integrated amp. Simply this means that a loud noise in one speaker is not suppressed by a quiet noise on the other. I suppose you could call it throttling or choking, but I am not audiophile, more an accountant. As an accountant I recommended these @fosiaudio V3 monos to save money on heat and electric bills. From the reviews that I've heard (yes heard) they sound rather good too. But only with system matching opamps. That is where the fun begins. @fosiaudio please can you suggest options that fit?
Looking forward to the unboxing soundtrack; will only buy if it's either a) 32bit / 768khz download with outtakes and demos that I'll listen to once out of curiosity, or b) 1,800gram quintuple re-virgin'd vinyl (from a digital master)
Haha. So what I’m going to do is cut my recordings onto acetate, play them once on my mate’s Goldmund to bed them in, then code them into Sexdecuple-rate DSD and release the data as ink blots on palimpsest parchment once used to present verses from the New Testament, in Greek. Any good?
do they come in 110-120 volts or just 230 volts....it is going to be a funny set up - I am using biwire Analysis Plus Oval 9s, much much heavier cables than the amp, the amps will up in the air unless I put bricks on top of them
Yes, but what do they sound like? How reasonably-priced are they? Should I consider bi-amping my main KEF Reference loudspeakers with them? Why not use one 10A PSU for each V3 Mono? This way there should be ample headroom... Ramblings from a closet Audiophile... All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Please help me out. I want to buy the Best bookshelf speaker under 2000 US dollars. Klipsch 9s , sonus Faber lumina 2, q acoustics 5020, kef r3 meta , warfdale linton 85 ? We don't get arindal 1723 or 1961 in my country. Any other speaker that you would recommend under or a little over 2000 dollars ?
Hi i just received a douk pro 7, i have a T+A Cala, which is class D also. I could make a comparison between the two. The Cala of course was much more expensive. Speakers are Castle Knight 4 or Castle inversion 15. I have a thing about Castle speakers. Anyway, i tried the douk, which came with a 32v power supply. It seemed slightly subdued in the mid range, compared with the Cala, which i find quite good anyway. So i bought a 48v power supply, what a difference to the imaging! It does sound different then the Cala. My 1984 Nikko DC NA 2090 Class A/ B amp, which weighs 9kg sounds different again, and runs hot. I find playing CD through the Cala sounds better then the Douk, and the Douk sounds better via Musical Fidelity V90 dac, playing stuff from spotify via cable. I dont like blue tooth. Anyway thanks for your channel, very interesting.
@@AudioMasterclassthey did. I seen but can’t remember who. And in a later video I seen the other UA-camr mentioned it and said the reason was due to a slightly older power supply brick, allegedly
What about lead acid batteries to power each mono block. Unlimited amps basically and cleanest possible power. Class D is very power efficent so days of listening, trickle charge overnight.
Watching your video gives the impression that monoblocs are the way to go, but I think like everything, you get what you pay for (mostly). Are your Fossi monoblocs gain and phase matched ? Do they have similar dynamic responses and other characteristics? How is their similarly performance specified ?
These are the same worries you could possibly have about a stereo power amplifier. Not to say you shouldn't worry, but it's no different than monoblocs.
@@AudioMasterclass During the manufacturing process, the L and R channels of a stereo power amplifier are calibrated together at the same time. Effective matching is directly related to overall product quality and can be achieved quickly and with ease. In the case of individual monoblocs which may be manufactured months apart, matching will depend on the ability to make alignment adjustments in the hardware design and the rigor and consistency of the manufacturing process. For a manufacturer looking to cut costs (particularly lower end product) I worry this may be an area where compromises are made.
@@neilosullivan8216 In pro audio it is often considered that a pair of microphones or a pair of loudspeakers should have adjacent serial numbers. There's no reason therefore this shouldn't be a thing for hi-fi.
@@AudioMasterclass That's a good idea. If I was to purchase a high-end pair of monoblocs I think I'd also insist on the manufacturing test data being included with the product.
I just ordered my private nuclear power plants just to be sure that my mono blocks are completely separated. However, at some point the GND's must be connected together. For this I ordered ultra long drills so I'm able to drill holes right down the earth pure molten metal core. And that's where the GND connections will be connected. In engineering, nothing like that audio foolery, this type of connection is called a star GND connection.
I see I didn't answer your question properly. The signals will of course be in phase. However, the earth magnetic field surounding the cables with magnetic fields being vectors are in opposite direction when they are connected as you suggested and might as such generate disturbances because of the changing field and the current induced in the star GND network. I therefore strongly advice to keep the connections at the same location. If you want to hear the changes in the magnetic field, I can recommend searching for "The scary sound of Earth’s magnetic field".
Well most modern amplifiers from 1960 to about 1995 even if in one big case are usually built with what is essentialy two monoblock amplifiers fitted into one case. So monoblock amps do not always look like two seperate show boxes with seperate power cords with either tubes or transistors. My Kenwood KA7010 and Carver amplifiers are all internaly essentialy two mono blocks stuffed into a big metal box. All of my amplifiers require a pre amp to control the volume. I have no idea what the topology of modern amps are. Long ago I considered myself an audiophile then I discovered I had far too much common sense and discernment to be an audiophile and upgraded myself to hifi enthusiast. Audiophile=more money than brains and less than normal discernment of facts from fantasy! Most so called audiophiles disgust me they will have a 15w per channel amp with a power cord larger than what I use on my welder and the speaker cables also large enough to weld with! I can humble and make a fool out of 95% of people that claim to be audiophiles with a cheap blindfold intended to help people sleep!
I'm considering these over getting my Bel Canto M300s which need some repairs. I'm getting hum out of both amps but one is worse than the other. They're over 12 years old and it would probably cost more to fix them than buying these. My media center is a rather slim MCM unit so the amp/s have to be rather shallow.
Since I listen to your channel YT suggest me a lot of audiophile content with a lot of overpriced stuff. 300k$ or more loudspeakers surely very good, but the source is always a turntable and the amplifiers have lamps.
This is a rather interesting concept: "We've [at Fosi] recently begun exploring a similar solution - housing multiple amplifier boards within a single chassis and incorporating an internal power supply. Users will have the option to install anywhere from 2 to 5 amplifier boards, somewhat akin to a NAS system supporting multiple hard drives. "
You might have something here. A standardised rack format into which you can insert the power amps of your choice. You could drive one at a time, or maybe several or all of them in parallel. You might think I'm joking but I have seen a racked power amps that, in my memory, looked very much like a NAS. We just need standardisation and something similar to the different RAID classes. Fosi?
Sacre bleu! You can't really call these "monoblocks" if they're sharing the same power supply! Disclaimer: I not only don't have "monoblocks," I have a power amp with five channels all on the same chassis, all using the same power supply. Also, doesn't any "true audiophile" believe that analog beats digital? Doesn't a stereo LP record intrinsically have tons and tons of crosstalk? Therefore, any "true audiophile" should have no problem with crosstalk!
If mono blocks were the norm, the introduction of one box stereo amplifiers would sell like hot cakes! The specifications would allay any crosstalk fears, and the saving on clutter/ interconnects would be very attractive. I box should cost less too! Apologies to Fosi Audio, but short off any proven advantages, why????
When stereo was a new thing, monoblocs were the norm, like the Quad II and Leak TL12. Then when stereo power amps were invented, they sold like hot cakes!
There is actually a subtle audible sound difference, especially with balanced inputs. Dual Mono vs Stereo with Bal/Unbal. inputs sound demo ( Fosi ZA3 vs ZA3 vs V3, from VirtualHifi): ua-cam.com/video/JqtetlCEsNo/v-deo.html&lc=UgxMGXBzgk2vioQaSzB4AaABAg
If the V3 are that good, why does the manufacturer make inaccurate claims? That shared power brick is rated at 48 volts and 10 amps, or 480 watts. The manufacturer claims those V3 monoblocks each put out 240 watts into 4 ohms. In order to do this, they would have to be 100% efficient. They’re not. They get warm. Electrical inefficiency equates to heat. Enough said. I wonder what other inaccurate claims are being made?
Measuring power output in a meaningful and comparable way has been an issue back to the 1970s. Unfortunately nothing has changed. Any manufacturer that quoted power output in continuous average watts would look bad in comparison to the others. So the situation continues. This is why I usually quote the specs of the power supply because that imposes an absolute limit on what the amp can achieve.
This is the third video I’ve seen where an inordinate amount of time is spent describing the amps build and not one second on how it sounds. What’s the deal??
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Not only must individual power supplies be used, but for best stereo separation, different power sources are needed. Speak with your utility to find out what they can provide. At the very least, you’ll need a different drop from the pole supplying your house. If you’re truly audiophile, a separate house should power each amp. Speak with your neighbors. Either some accommodation can be reached or you can buy their home for the Right monobloc.
NAE (not an electrician) but if you get to the point of running them on different phases I foresee a timely visit to the undertaker.
🤣🤣, thank you for that, you made my morning Sir.
You also need most expensive energy tariff from your provider - everyone knows that expensive electricity is much better quality. Avoid any budget, off peak or fixed tariffs - they use poor quality electricity on these ;)
Yes. And what if one monobloc is running on wind power and the other is on solar?
You are genuis, but to really know that you are a true audiophile, you need a different ear 😂😂😂😂😂
The problem with most aspiring audiophiles is that by the time they get to their ultimate system, their hearing range cuts off at 12kHz and the acoustic inbalance between their ears becomes exaggarated, but at that point in life they have the funds that they didn't have when they could hear a 17kHz tone.😅
I've covered exactly this topic here - ua-cam.com/video/Qvud6a4kFdE/v-deo.html
I haven't heard a 12Khz tone in years :)
@@andymouse
I'm 73 and I still hear 13khz ... but the OP is correct, by the time we get the system together it's too late. 🥺
Not related but I need help with something and I still don’t find the right answer.
I’ve a turntable and a Phono-preamp NAD PP2E how do I put a couple of this monobloc and get Volume Control for the whole system?
@@ivokegevic361
Generally your phono pre-amp needs to feed a line level stereo pre-amplifier that in turn feeds the monoblocks. The volume control will be in the stereo pre-amp.
Since we're talking about Fosi products, look up the P3, which seems quite popular.
so you end up with the chain of
Turntable -> Phono Amp -> P3 -> 2 x v3 Mono -> 2 x speakers.
Another choice is one of the passive volume controls. These are basically a knob in a box and can be quite inexpensive. The online vendors will have several versions, just use it instead of the P3.
Algorithms interpreting my voracious appetite for more information on the Fosi V3 monoblocks led me here. I enjoyed the pacing, clear explanations and self deprecating humor. Subscribed on the spot!
I worry about you.
Reason number four: The more black boxes you have, the better your system must be.
AND your company gets a higher DEI score... lolz
But you have to have some OEM 300B vacuum tubes in the input and output boxes!
4 monoblocks for bi amping
Fosi audio amps costed so little that I bought 4 ZA3 running as mono block in bi-amp bi-wire configuration driving my pair of first generation Sonus Faber Elector Amator, It costed me a total of US$320 only and my speaker has never been sounding so amusing. The sound stage is huge and instrument separation is superb. Deep bass flow like wave pounding the beach. Class-D amps has improved tremendously over the years indeed.
Maybe I should run a poll to see who's running the most ZA3s or V3 monos. With a surround system, I'd expect numbers to be high.
"Doubt" is the most important part of audiophilia
not since Martin Logan and Benchmark entered the scene. Dac3, L4a and the AHB2 with summit's or EM-ESL, doubt is not part of the audiophile equation anymore.
@@TheMartijn00 You'e not sugesting ...that its ..."perfect" are you!!? no improved version xx ..that would be the end of their audio industry!!
@@TheMartijn00 All of these are pffffffff until you send them to Danny of GR to fix.
@@marxman00 well, they say that the ahb2 is probably the last amp you'll ever buy and after living with it for a while, I think it might be so. the dac3 is a masterpiece, used to produce maybe half of all music coming out today. the Martin logan's are as accurate as you need. LA4 i just heard and heard about, but with S/N specs that are BELOW those of the AHB2 that's the end of the road the most perfect line-amp possible.So yeah, in a perfect world it would be the end, but in the world of audio marketing most consumers follow a fairy tale fantasy. I am an audio purist and want to come as close as possible to what the master sounds like, Who needs added coloration to the sound, or less detail so you can't hear mistakes in the master-mix or bad recordings? That means you can spend 100tk's of $ to change what the producer and artist meant? that's silly and a waste of money. All the specs and tests are free to download on the benchmark website, check them out and let me know what you think.
@@Bac4-qu6qg7sk4v I do not understand what you mean.
Yes, ASR seems to have become everyone’s go to. That said, I’m glad you liked them. I ordered them with two 48V5A power supplies for two reasons: 1. That’s the version they sent to ASR so it probably has the best measurements 😊, and 2. I have a typical guitarist’s fear that shared power can be noisier than isolated. No one said these decisions were well founded.
Its best to draw from same powersupply.. percision timing ! 😊
@@supergwizzo You wouldn’t want one side to get ahead. 😂
Not everyone's go to. I'm going to ask you something and its not meant to offend you in any way. I'm just trying to raise and issue that most people overlook. Audio Science Review claims to use science when evaluating or testing equipment. Its their middle name. If you want to learn something about what science is, or isn't, go to ASR's channel and find 1 instance where he uses real science in one of his videos. Any video he has ever made. Just find one example.
The fastest and easiest way to build a youtube channel is by telling people what they want to hear. "Don't buy this for $1000, get this one for $100 instead. Its just as good, if not better.". That's exactly what the average person wants to hear. The guy is a hero. He just saved you $900, and he proved it using science. But did he really do science? I was able to prove that what he does, is not even close to doing real science. I would have you read my posts on his channel, but he deletes them the second he sees them. The only reason you delete a post is because you don't want anyone to read it. If I was wrong, he would leave them up and use them as examples. So, if you pick one of his videos and show me where you think he's doing real science, I'll prove to you he's not.
It does not matter if we are talking about rf amplifiers or audio amplifiers feedback is a very good system to use. In almost every case you end up with an amplifier that is more stable. The people that think they do not like it are likely the same idiots paying £1000 per foot for cableing!! Filtering is a must with Class D. I think that very few audiophiles will be using Fosi Audio componets because they are affordable, work and lack exclusivity. So with all of that said since audiophiles will not be using them it really does not matter what that group of people thinks of this filtering system. Again give me a blindfold and I will give you a humbled fool that thinks he is an audiophile! So long as the filtering exceeds what the brain of 98% of people can discern it is almost as good as 100% analog. The ear and the brain are not as discerning as most audiophiles think they are. Everyone knows what they like but almost none of them understand why they like what they like!
Nah. Human hearing is more complex than a few of your favorite measurements can represent. Perception is every bit as irreducible as consciousness. The signal that goes through the least manipulation to get amplified to the listening level will sound the most natural. Feedback might add operational stability but its at the cost of entropy to the signal
@@PlaybackMansion The key word is "perception". The act of perception involves judgement, which is unique to each person. Humans do not directly "hear" sound. That is the problem. A calibrated mic and scope will, within it's margin of error, consistently give the same results. A human cannot.
Yes, blind testing settles most hifi arguments.
@@10sassafras Yet, in spite of the coat hanger speaker wire test, thousands still get conned.
Coat hanger will never look as good as my speaker cables@@alienígena-e1p
One point to add regarding power supply of a mono block vs a stereo power amp:
If we want to get full performance from a channel, we would need to double the power supply. I.e. the equivalent of a 200 watt single stereo power supply would be a 200 watts power supply for each monoblock. Other wise, the peak power of a kick on the left or right only channel channel will be limited by -3 dB. This is because on a stereo Amp it can use a double avaliable power from the power supply.
When kick is in the center there is no ( theoretical) difference.
An album of your unboxing music coming out later this year? Be still my beating heart!
"How will people know you're an audiophile? Now that's important". Classic humour as usual, I hope everyone else enjoys your style as much as I do. I can remember, I think, back in the 1970’s when the term “audiophile” wasn’t bandied about amongst us common folk as much as you hear it now, even though it came into use in the 1950’s. Such people were generally referred to by the hoi polloi as “hi fi enthusiasts” - the rest of us just owned stereos. Anyway, back then many major companies that produced high end gear also produced more budget level models for us “stereo enthusiasts”. I can recall reading of an interesting phenomena cited by an “audio expert” that this practice did not greatly enthuse the “hi fi enthusiasts” as they were liable to meet a “stereo enthusiast” who tried to engage them on an equal audio appreciation level simply because they both owned gear manufactured by the same company, one at the bottom end of the market the other, well, top end gear. Anyway this “audio expert” speculated that this led to the rise of “hi fi enthusiasts” buying their expensive gear from more obscure manufacturers who did not commit the sin of producing budget models. This of course was one way that people would know that you were a “hi fi enthusiast” (audiophile) - "You’ve got a "Whatsamuchi" Power Amp - wow!!"
I would probably describe myself as a hi-fi enthusiast, but in the sense of enjoying the concepts and techniques. I don't need a pile of fancy equipment personally but anyone who does, I'd say go for it (if you can afford it).
@@AudioMasterclass Just a bit of fun, my mistake, I thought you might find my comment at least slightly amusing, maybe not so. Such is life, of course, deep down, don't I passionately wish I could afford it, in typical male fashion, even if my old ears may not completely appreciate it.
@@straymusictracksfromdavoro6510 It was amusing, but also correct. Many a true word..
@@AudioMasterclassAll the best, I am continually amused by your posts.
@@straymusictracksfromdavoro6510it’s less about the “gear” and more about the music production and talent behind it (musicianship, the music itself). Test your gear with known great mastering and music. It should sound great regardless of budget…
Then Demand better mastering less clipping and distortion due to loudness wars if the gear is great regardless of budget if it’s poorly mastered it will not sound any better or at least slightly better (maybe even worse if it’s revealing). Save your ears if you’re younger. That’s the best (proven) advise any of us older folks can tell from life experience. You’ll have a longer time to appreciate what you are hearing then and remember great sound starts from the source!
Thanks for this review. Cant wait to buy em!
One correction here: Crosstalk does exist in digital data transmission, especially if wires run very long. It's the very reason all Ethernet cables consist of twisted wire pairs.
Digital crosstalk does not translate to overspeaking into another channel like it does with analog audio. It will simply corrupt data packets, requiring them to be dropped and retransmitted.
Digital data is subject to all kinds of interference but if it is corrupted and not error corrected I suspect that audio crosstalk would the least of the problems.
Ooh, you cheeky git. Bang on release too! I've just slapped down the kickstarter money on a pair of these - cos of FOMO. I'm not an audiophile really but have *ahem* come into possession of a Nelson Pass pre and power amp (the latter of which blows my domestic power if i don't turn it on properly) and a pair of these little things should sort that out and be all i really need. Plus i went for THE ORANGE KNOB!
I backed the Kickstarter too and thought it was weird that they offered the orange knob as an extra when the V3 Monos don’t have a volume knob.
Never had crosstalk in a power amp. I've had it in preamps and in mic mixers .... back in the day. My AB STEREO amp is really dual mono hand has separate power switches so really more like and no crosstalk monoblocks. These cheap amps will be hated by audiophiles!
@@memcdmwhy?
I prefer one decent stereo amp above two less decent mono amps. There will be a difference between two mono amps and a stereo amp which uses extactly the same mono amps, as you discribed, but the difference between a good amp and a not so good amp will be much bigger. Where is the hum comming from in the first 10 minutes or so of this video?
Probably your shit HIFI.
I think that these amplifiers have had more reviews come out at the same time as any I have ever seen. Concerning the split power supply brick, some of the other reviews said there were strange noises coming out of the amplifiers not overall distortion but, noise that would come & go. One reviewer switched to two 32V power supplies that he already owned & he said the noises stopped. It appears from your review you didn't have this issue, correct? I just discovered your channel today & must say I like your presentation style & subscribed, thanks.
If I had heard such a problem I would have mentioned it.
Luckily, I saw the videos you're referring to and updated my order to separate power blocks. Lol I would have been PISSED if I waited out the 2 months and shipment from hong kong just to get weird noises and shit. Apparently theyre shipping out on 6/15 with a free MUSES02 chip for free
What’s the engineering reason for making the speaker cables the same length? I get the OCD reason….
Because you would otherwise need to make detailed, accurate measurements or conduct extensive listening tests. Cables same length = a whole lot easier.
Only a problem if one cable is a mile long.
Simply to equalise the wire resistance between amplifier and each speaker.
I would definitely buy two separate units each with a 5A power supply.
It should also be noted that the PWM leakage on David's scope is going to be for one side of the PBTL bridge... However; the pulses on both sides of the bridge are in phase and thus produce no output and will never harm a speaker.
I'm amazed at how tiny power amps are these days! My two retro power amps from the 1980s (stereo amps in bridged mono mode) together are the size of a small dorm fridge. And, no, they're not tube amps, either (I never bought into the "magic warmth" of tubes, even when I was young and naive).
Mono blocks will give the greatest chassis separation.
😅
I have my mono blocks intergrated into one case to avoid any possible embarrassment when people visit.
Maybe Fosi will make one of those.
I used to hide my ex wife in the wardrobe for similar reasons.😄
@@montynorth3009 LMFAO !
I bought a Za3 stereo unit based on your evaluation.
I use it to drive an 8" homemade subwoofer .
That subwoofer is part of a 14-channel system using 2 Yamaha receivers one a 7 channel unit and the other a 11 channel unit. For base, I have 9 powered subwoofers.
The more the merrier. 😮😅
Regarding instant auto-on switches, I find them to be inadequate in terms of their response time. I own a set of powered subwoofers equipped with such switches, and they tend to turn on and off unexpectedly, particularly at lower volume levels or when transitioning between older and newer recordings. This can be very annoying!
Fosi is doing some cool things don't sleep
Fantastic sarcasm of the higest order, and great review. Thank you and well done.
Serious question though, is there a definitive answer to whether shorter speaker cables and longer interconnects is better or vice versa?
I'll go with Ohm's law - Shorter and fatter = less resistance. Who wouldn't want less resistance?
unless we're talking about 1km long cables or cables as thin as a hair, it doesn't really matter much. Sure speakers have a very low impedance and amp input should have a high impedance, so technically speaker cables benefit more from being thicker and shorter, but in real world use, when we're talking about just a few meters, as long as your speaker cables are fairly thick (I'd say AWG 16-14 / 1.5mm2 or thicker), it should be enough so that you don't hear any difference.
@@bgravato A good rule of thumb is to target a damping factor of >50 for an 8 Ohm speaker, assuming 0.05 Ohms of source impedance in the amplifier itself. Following this guideline would permit no more than 12.6m (41 feet) for 11 AWG cable.
@@gracenotes5379 you're right, I might have exaggerated quite a bit when I said 1km... for speakers there's much less room than for line level signals, though like you said under 10-12m (with thick enough wires) it's negligible.
I'd say that in most home user cases the speakers wires are probably under 5-6m, so getting the amp(s) really close to the speakers is not going to have a noticeable impact...
Of course for a true audiophile if there's a 0.00001% theoretical chance of improvement, they'd be willing to spend thousands in it!
My understanding is that mono blocks are a product from the mono to stereo transition. People had mono set up. So company sold them the other half. And now it’s just an audiophile “that’s the way we do it”. This is not against bi-amping or anything. Just don’t like doing things unquestioned.
Q: "How do you know there is an audiophile at your party?"
A: He will tell you
Q: " What is the difference between an audiophile and God?"
A: God doesn't think he is an audiophile.
Actually God is the Original and Ultimate Audiophile. Everything sing his praises
We used to laugh in the 1980s a British company used to make slave power amps we used on the dj circuit, straight forward mosfet power amps two seperate circuits and power supplies in one case using Hitachi top end mosfets.
What you got was hifi enthusiast slagging these amps off and explaining how their amps that played natural sound were so superior, when we explained natural sound from a straight slave amp is nothing like they hear that their amps of the decade had the EQ response set on the boards they could not comprehend but what were we, we were some of the industrial electricians that designed the circuits for many of the straight slave amps.
At the time we were also some of the first to use bi amping instead of crossovers it gave us more control over the acoustics of a venue.
I still have ten slave amps using the hitachi mosfets from the early 80s all working fine today in RMS none of the mickey mouse ratings used by some asian products of today.
Soooo, would you buy these and a separate dac, seperate phono amp, or a Yamaha AS801??
I must be unusual in having just the one monoblock amplifier.
My radio set consists of just three things: A 1957 Leak Trough-Line VHF/FM tuner [with variable output for volume control, so no pre-amp is used], a Quad II Forty and a 1957 Quad ESL. So either extremely vintage or fairly modern but old school.
Surprisingly this radio sounds very good, even in mono!
My digital and LP side works a glorified sound bar, but recordings seem less important to me than great live broadcasts [or delayed relays] of real concerts. Some are sublime and some are less so, but the great ones make up for the less fine .... And you can always turn it off!
I don't think of myself as an audiophile though.
Best wishes from George in Herefordshire.
PS: My speaker cable is from Maplins. Six feet of it cost me slightly less than £10 a few years ago. My interconnect is one of those maroon colour Chord RCA terminated cable, which I was given a pair of for nothing!
Any one of your vintage items would qualify you to be an audiophile, so verily I dub thee so.
@@AudioMasterclass Thank you kindly! I reckon the Q II Forty is rather an unrated amp. Not very powerful into low impedance speakers, though fine on the ESL, which amazingly is still nearly mint as it runs well towards seventy years old! The ESL was completely serviced in 2016 at Huntingdon, and I bought it for the price of the servicing! And the old wireless was one of the very best of the time, -thoroughly rebuilt in 2019. As the repairman said of it. "Aye! not a bad old radio!" From him that was high praise indeed.
As for the rest it performs satisfactorily and is pleasingly free of any special quality or oddities, though it does not rival the sheer beauty that the radio set produces on a good concert.
Best wishes from George
4:46 well, IIRC joint-stereo does cause a bit of cross talk in the digital domain, the mid-side encoding itself is perfectly reversible, but when paired with lossy compression some of the data does leak between channel
As always the difference is inaudible and the increase in compression efficiency joint stereo brings is great
This is a good point that I neglected. I think I'll constrain my comment on digital crosstalk to non-data-reduced audio. Joint stereo is something I may look at in a future video.
My favorite part of having Monoblocks is the great channel separation. Great video!
And make sure the left speaker is never in the same room as the right
Great video again. I agree, speaker cables should be same length. I like your 'matter of fact ' style. It is obvious you put great effort into your reviews. Subscribing now. Thanks.
If you're thinking that they should be the same length to avoid any delay on the signal getting to the other speaker... think again! Electricity travels near speed of light, so even if they were 100m difference in length you still wouldn't be able to perceive the delay...
On the other hand, if you're thinking about the wire resistance, that could be more relevant, but still pretty irrelevant if you use thick enough wires
@@bgravatoI suspect no one is thinking that cables should be same length to avoid signal delay
And what will we do with the absence of a monobloc preamplifier?
Fosi! Are you listening?
Fosi P3, Aiyima T2, Arylic B50, any streamer or DAC with volume conrol, any headphone amp with RCA outputs... lots of choices.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 LOL!
@@MaxQNik
Well... you did ask! 😁
I want a monobloc dac
Another excellent video. I'm so glad to hear that the album of unboxing music will be released into the wild later in the year. I'll use it to fry my (imaginary) ESL-63s!
Having my music played on Quad ESL-63s would be an honour.
Well, if they're sharing the same power supply, are they still monoblocs?
Do you have any Audio equipment that’s bigger than your hand?
Thanks again for a wonderful review! I purchased the two FOSI amps and two 48 volts power supply.
Now the power output is a little overstated. Curious that the amps provide power, but not current. I’m also a big supporter of high current amps and I have two “very old” HK mono blocks. They’re also small. “Comparatively speaking.” I’ve just received the FOSI amps Sioux have not tested them side by side.
I've been using these amps with my Yamaha NS10M Studio monitors since I got them for review, albeit with the single power supply. They live under my desk, nothing to see and nothing not to like. I think I can safely say that any possibly better amp will not make the slightest different to the quality of my work.
@@AudioMasterclass I understand with a small near field monitor they’d be perfect. However with a transmission line speaker that requires a lot of power and the impedance dips down they might perform differently. I should have clarified that.
All amplifiers sound the same to the human ear unless they go into clipping.
At what point does clipping occur?
That depends on the speakers, the room, the volume and the music.
50 watts per channel into 8 Ohms seems like a good minimum.
Hey David, will the album be in Audiophile format ? eg. Vinyl super deluxe? Or DSD aka SACD? Looking forward to it 😉. Cheers
To be honest, I don't think the vinyl medium can take it. It was invented in gentler musical times.
Preferably chrome high bias cassette!
Where does the underlying hum on your audio come from?
Yes, it has an XLR connector, but is that input truly/fully balanced?
This is a mystery that I might look into at some point.
. You're oversimplifying. A "XLR connector" and "that input" are not singular parts. It's a few pieces, depending how it's counted.
A "truly balanced connection" and NOT connector, begins with a power supply (unbalanced does not), a small powered PCB board (the opposite phasing) and a 3-pin outlet all mounted inside the source component. That's 3 parts needed to initiate a balanced connection.
The cable consists of a 3-wire conduit, a male plug & a female plug. That's 3 more parts.
Lastly is again the 3-pin outlet, a small attached PCB board (the un-phasing) and a power supply all mounted inside the recipient component. That makes 9 parts for a balanced connection.
Understand that a truly balanced connection is very effective at noise reduction regardless of whether the component is "truly" balanced or not.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpMyFi You are correct. My explicit mention of "truly/fully balanced" was intended to cover what you are referring to in the simplest terms possible so as not to confuse newbies.
@@michaelsparrow4798
. I see. So for the noobs, I'm gonna' put a cherry on top.........................
All those 9ish parts I mentioned above are ONLY referencing the "balanced connection" function in an audio chain.
A "balanced" or more specifically a "differential" component requires a whole host of different parts than mentioned above to be balanced.
A balanced connection & a differential component are independent of each other. They are two different things.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@michaelsparrow4798
. Here's a question for Michael. If one chooses to connect a preamplifier to a power amplifier via RCA or TRS, is it still balanced?
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Where does the background hum in this video come from? I watched quiet a couple of your vids, and i enjoy them, but that did not come accross me before. It fades away at 12:40.
Probably aliens. In flying saucers.
@@AudioMasterclass you are having a great time on youtube don´t you :). I would not consider myself audiophile in a sense of - oh THAT IS how it should sound like. I am rather a music enjoyer and passionate dancer. Also i am not an audiophile in the case of money spend - i hear most of my music on PC with a 100€ HP/mic DAC/Amp, on a good enough for me headphone sub 300€, for i think seven years now - i still think its good and delivers the music i listen to, the way i like it. I just enjoy your content and the fun behind it and was wondering about the humming since, i just heard it the first time on your channel and was wondering where such a noise would come from. I guess why it jumped to my mind is because it kinda sounds like the noise the aquarium pump makes, that drives me crazy at home when its quiet, but my GF insists of having fishes - so no chance for me to get rid of that noice :D. Best regards :)
Sorry I'm slow to respond, but I'm here now to give you a clue. The hum is 90 Hz. Another commenter got it just from that tiny amount of information.
I can use my two Primare A34.2's as monoblocks but instead I use one of them for the bass and the other for the treble and midrange.
I do that because I don't like that bridged power-amps get no power at all when the impedance gets low.
Yes, my A34.2's is Class D also.
I like the Fosi products. They tend to be better than the recordings that will pass thru them. I have all manner of amplification, but these are very fair indeed. I'm more of a music head than audiophile. I can be swayed by different amps on any given day with the one that is closest to me at the time being a winner, regardless.
I love your channel sir!
Duo Monos rock, those with young undamaged ears will hear more separation , clearer and bigger soundstage.
As will those with wider heads.
looks like the embargo liftet today 😄
what about those of us with Active Crossovers? Are we excluded from being an Audiophile as we need a separate amplifier for each driver in the speaker. (in my case with my Axiom LFR1100 that has 5 different driver sets, I need 10 channels worth of amplification). So would we need individual mono blocks for each channel, or can we get away with a multi channel amplifier per speaker and still be considered an Audiophile? My gosh, it is going to get expensive to keep up with the requirements.
You're going to need more amps.
Am I one of a few people who has balanced audio as a normal in my home studio? If I were to run a balanced line to my mono block then use a box to unbalanced and match it to the amp would this work. I can imagine that this would rid me of any noise in transit between my output and input on the mono block. One block per each speaker channel. My set up seems to be destined to have a load of black boxes whilst I think they do have a positive outcome to the output still seem to be a large collection. It works and I'm dreading the day I move as I will have to write down where and how all these boxes fit together..... You would have appreciated a late studio engineer at a radio station I worked for a few years ago. I can only blame him for some of the quirks that my current studio has.
The main point of balancing is to reduce interference. In a living room or home studio there shouldn't be any interference bad enough to cause a problem. Living close to a radar installation can tip the scales though. (Nearly said 'tip the balance').
B&W DM100? What vintage? late 80s? early 90s? I have a pair of DM100i. In fact I remember the sales rep mentioning he sells them to musicians for use as small room monitors. Still sound great after 30+ years but wonder how recent makes/models might be different (or maybe updated/upgrade crossover components).
The Kickstarter Campaign allows for two 5 amp 48 volt power supply option
I am looking forward to the Fosi Hypex amplifiers which should be out this year
I am a sucker for the Kickstarter Campaigns
Nice review
You can have any combination you like on the Kickstarter campaign - like 2* V3s with 2* 48v/10A power supplies. Curiously 2* V3s with 2* 48v/5A PS only has a 50 HKD price difference than with just 1* 48V/10A PS. Which leads me to believe the 10A PSU is a bit special,
David, yet another review with your style that brings a smile to the face! Keep them coming!
Great that you mentioned output filtering as well, but you wonder if the output filtering in these Chinese products will make it through to series production. I’ve seen removal of these “unnecessary” components far too often, particularly in power supplies with the house wiring acting as a nice little antenna.
What I want to know is what causes more electromagnetic interference the Class D amplifiers both beating their square-waves together nicely or the power supply(s)?
Electromagnetic interference is definitely a thing, even though there are standards that have to be adhered to. My bluetooth trackpad has phases where it drives me nuts, and I did suspect the Fosi amps on my desk, and their power supplies, but unless they radiate when they are unplugged from the mains it's something else.
A few reviewers across the web have stated that with just one power supply and the splitter cable running both monoblocks, they heard unwanted noises - that is humming, buzzing, etc. However, when using two separate power supplies, they stated that there was pure silence. Am going to be both curious and cautious about this. I won't buy them until they are officially announced, as they are still in the development stage on Kickstarter from what I've seen.
While I am not disputing anyone else's experience, I have the amp in front of me right now, powered up. I can put my ear right next to the speaker and I hear nothing.
@@AudioMasterclass That's good to hear. Perhaps some of the samples they sent out to whoever were not up to snuff. Glad yours was silent.
Doesn't cross talk start with the Pre Amplifier, unless that too is balanced defeats the purpose, isn't it?
I love my Fosi v3 😊
Hello and congratulations on your interventions, some of which were very useful and clarifying. Others depend on who sees/listens. Regarding monoblocs, I have been using a tagmclaren 100x5r for a few years now. I've already tried the various configurations that this amplifier allows: simple stereo / 2 channels with bi-wiring / 4 channels with bi-amping on my b&w. I have no doubt - along with other people who have heard (without knowing it) that the last configuration is far superior to any of the others. Can you explain why? Thanks again
All these 'bi-' thingies will be something for me to explore in a future video.
with bi wiring you connect your low-frequencie terminals of the speaker to you amp output, and the high frequency terminals of speaker to the same output of the amp, right?
than the crossover inside your speaker still are connector together with the wires - they come together at the amplifier output (speaker terminals).
with bi amping two different amp outputs are used, one amp to low freq input of speaker and the other to high freq. So the wires are not connected together anywhere, and there is no interference from the crossover inside the speaker
Have you got an album coming out later this year? and isn't PFFB the same as 'composite amp' like most amps have been since year dot ?...cheers.
Yes in fact I do have an album - 'Irritating Unboxing Music' coming out later this year. As for PFFB and composite amps, maybe a future video?
@@AudioMasterclass :)
Maybe I can help a little bit here...
In a basic Class-D amplifier, you need a low pass filter on the output to separate the audio from the PWM carrier. Traditionally this has been regulated by PWM feedback between the output transistors and the modulator in the amplifier. Post Filter Feedback incorporates a secondary audio feedback running essentially from the speaker connectors back to the audio input to the chip. This allows the amplifier chip to compensate for any errors in the output filter itself. While I doubt the grand sonic value of this, especially with a well designed filter, it does seem to have become a point of demand from perfectionist consumers.
Sometimes you need monos because you have big speakers. Sometimes these big speakers need bi amping to drive bass separate from mid/tweeter, sometimes you need to tri amp to further separate the tweeter. It's all in the design. But I watched PS audios latest post and the big reason for monos was to help avoid compression of dynamic range that happens in an integrated amp. Simply this means that a loud noise in one speaker is not suppressed by a quiet noise on the other. I suppose you could call it throttling or choking, but I am not audiophile, more an accountant. As an accountant I recommended these @fosiaudio V3 monos to save money on heat and electric bills. From the reviews that I've heard (yes heard) they sound rather good too. But only with system matching opamps. That is where the fun begins. @fosiaudio please can you suggest options that fit?
Looking forward to the unboxing soundtrack; will only buy if it's either
a) 32bit / 768khz download with outtakes and demos that I'll listen to once out of curiosity, or
b) 1,800gram quintuple re-virgin'd vinyl (from a digital master)
Haha. So what I’m going to do is cut my recordings onto acetate, play them once on my mate’s Goldmund to bed them in, then code them into Sexdecuple-rate DSD and release the data as ink blots on palimpsest parchment once used to present verses from the New Testament, in Greek. Any good?
How are the lower volumes? Does the bass fall off?
Subjectively it always will. That's the way the ear works.
do they come in 110-120 volts or just 230 volts....it is going to be a funny set up - I am using biwire Analysis Plus Oval 9s, much much heavier cables than the amp, the amps will up in the air unless I put bricks on top of them
No mono block with common power supply, maybe dual chassis stereo is a better category or description.
I dig your tunes😊
How do they compare with za3
You can watch my ZA3 video here - ua-cam.com/video/YTNT4jp-Xq4/v-deo.html
Yes, but what do they sound like? How reasonably-priced are they? Should I consider bi-amping my main KEF Reference loudspeakers with them? Why not use one 10A PSU for each V3 Mono? This way there should be ample headroom... Ramblings from a closet Audiophile... All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Good. Follow link in description. Why not? Costs more. Conciseness from an audio enthusiast.
Please help me out. I want to buy the Best bookshelf speaker under 2000 US dollars.
Klipsch 9s , sonus Faber lumina 2, q acoustics 5020, kef r3 meta , warfdale linton 85 ?
We don't get arindal 1723 or 1961 in my country. Any other speaker that you would recommend under or a little over 2000 dollars ?
Unless I use the equipment myself and I like it, I don't give recommendations. I'm sure you can find a forum somewhere on the web that will help.
Hi i just received a douk pro 7, i have a T+A Cala, which is class D also. I could make a comparison between the two. The Cala of course was much more expensive. Speakers are Castle Knight 4 or Castle inversion 15. I have a thing about Castle speakers. Anyway, i tried the douk, which came with a 32v power supply. It seemed slightly subdued in the mid range, compared with the Cala, which i find quite good anyway. So i bought a 48v power supply, what a difference to the imaging! It does sound different then the Cala. My 1984 Nikko DC NA 2090 Class A/ B amp, which weighs 9kg sounds different again, and runs hot. I find playing CD through the Cala sounds better then the Douk, and the Douk sounds better via Musical Fidelity V90 dac, playing stuff from spotify via cable. I dont like blue tooth. Anyway thanks for your channel, very interesting.
Didn’t another tester experience noise resolved by adding the second power supply? Seems like cheap insurance
Dunno. Not psychic.
@@AudioMasterclassthey did. I seen but can’t remember who. And in a later video I seen the other UA-camr mentioned it and said the reason was due to a slightly older power supply brick, allegedly
Not only has xtalk gone with digital so has print through. Did many voice recordings that ended up with it.
What about lead acid batteries to power each mono block. Unlimited amps basically and cleanest possible power. Class D is very power efficent so days of listening, trickle charge overnight.
I run from lead acid when my village has one of its frequent power cuts. Through an inverter though, which I can tell you is some distance from hi-fi.
Watching your video gives the impression that monoblocs are the way to go, but I think like everything, you get what you pay for (mostly).
Are your Fossi monoblocs gain and phase matched ? Do they have similar dynamic responses and other characteristics? How is their similarly performance specified ?
Audiophile alert 😉😜
These are the same worries you could possibly have about a stereo power amplifier. Not to say you shouldn't worry, but it's no different than monoblocs.
@@AudioMasterclass During the manufacturing process, the L and R channels of a stereo power amplifier are calibrated together at the same time. Effective matching is directly related to overall product quality and can be achieved quickly and with ease.
In the case of individual monoblocs which may be manufactured months apart, matching will depend on the ability to make alignment adjustments in the hardware design and the rigor and consistency of the manufacturing process. For a manufacturer looking to cut costs (particularly lower end product) I worry this may be an area where compromises are made.
@@neilosullivan8216 In pro audio it is often considered that a pair of microphones or a pair of loudspeakers should have adjacent serial numbers. There's no reason therefore this shouldn't be a thing for hi-fi.
@@AudioMasterclass That's a good idea. If I was to purchase a high-end pair of monoblocs I think I'd also insist on the manufacturing test data being included with the product.
I just ordered my private nuclear power plants just to be sure that my mono blocks are completely separated. However, at some point the GND's must be connected together. For this I ordered ultra long drills so I'm able to drill holes right down the earth pure molten metal core. And that's where the GND connections will be connected. In engineering, nothing like that audio foolery, this type of connection is called a star GND connection.
Good thinking. I wonder if we connect the grounds of the two channels on opposite sides of the Earth, will they be out of phase?
@@AudioMasterclass I could setup an experiment in a matter of hours but the nuclear power plants are on back order.
@@foobarables Let me know how you get on. Try not to summon any demons in the process.
I see I didn't answer your question properly. The signals will of course be in phase. However, the earth magnetic field surounding the cables with magnetic fields being vectors are in opposite direction when they are connected as you suggested and might as such generate disturbances because of the changing field and the current induced in the star GND network. I therefore strongly advice to keep the connections at the same location. If you want to hear the changes in the magnetic field, I can recommend searching for "The scary sound of Earth’s magnetic field".
I would think there could be crosstalk in the D to A converter on your DAC or Streamer.
In the analogue part perhaps.
You can get a fully balanced DAC with two chips and separate signal paths.
14:55 chapter and verse please.
On PFFB?
Well most modern amplifiers from 1960 to about 1995 even if in one big case are usually built with what is essentialy two monoblock amplifiers fitted into one case. So monoblock amps do not always look like two seperate show boxes with seperate power cords with either tubes or transistors. My Kenwood KA7010 and Carver amplifiers are all internaly essentialy two mono blocks stuffed into a big metal box. All of my amplifiers require a pre amp to control the volume. I have no idea what the topology of modern amps are. Long ago I considered myself an audiophile then I discovered I had far too much common sense and discernment to be an audiophile and upgraded myself to hifi enthusiast. Audiophile=more money than brains and less than normal discernment of facts from fantasy! Most so called audiophiles disgust me they will have a 15w per channel amp with a power cord larger than what I use on my welder and the speaker cables also large enough to weld with! I can humble and make a fool out of 95% of people that claim to be audiophiles with a cheap blindfold intended to help people sleep!
hi , love your rewiews and attitude , good information for all of us " audiophiles " , hahaha
I'm considering these over getting my Bel Canto M300s which need some repairs. I'm getting hum out of both amps but one is worse than the other. They're over 12 years old and it would probably cost more to fix them than buying these. My media center is a rather slim MCM unit so the amp/s have to be rather shallow.
I'm a cross-talker. But only at the weekends with the curtains closed.
Since I listen to your channel YT suggest me a lot of audiophile content with a lot of overpriced stuff. 300k$ or more loudspeakers surely very good, but the source is always a turntable and the amplifiers have lamps.
My two Fosi V3 Mono are an excellent audiophile amplification solution…But the heat generated is a bit too much and should be dissipated better.
Do they also provide a "box" to put power supply and both amps into?
You could really get me started on that. Maybe a future video...
This is a rather interesting concept:
"We've [at Fosi] recently begun exploring a similar solution - housing multiple amplifier boards within a single chassis and incorporating an internal power supply. Users will have the option to install anywhere from 2 to 5 amplifier boards, somewhat akin to a NAS system supporting multiple hard drives. "
You might have something here. A standardised rack format into which you can insert the power amps of your choice. You could drive one at a time, or maybe several or all of them in parallel. You might think I'm joking but I have seen a racked power amps that, in my memory, looked very much like a NAS. We just need standardisation and something similar to the different RAID classes. Fosi?
For $280 with the 48 volt power supply you have a World-beater pair of amps!
The most hilarious thing about this are the following: 1. Cheep Class-D 2. A "shared" power brick! 3. Speaker wire length due to shared P/S.
dual mono topology is the future
I do have the megabucks but it all went to taxes , housing, food etc.
Why are these monoblocs not labeled? Surely we know a Left amp must not be used for Right duty.
I think you're supposed to audition them and allocate left and right for yourself.
@@AudioMasterclass Ahh, yes. That makes perfect sense.
Surely mono blocs sound better when stereo music is summed to mono ;)
Nice green screen, I reckon you were making this video in the spare bedroom. 😊
Spare bedroom? The taxman calls it my studio.
As for your music, I would buy it, not saying I would listen to it, but.....
Don't worry! It will be on Bandcamp. You can buy it, download it, and keep it close to your heart forever. (Streaming too)
Sacre bleu! You can't really call these "monoblocks" if they're sharing the same power supply! Disclaimer: I not only don't have "monoblocks," I have a power amp with five channels all on the same chassis, all using the same power supply. Also, doesn't any "true audiophile" believe that analog beats digital? Doesn't a stereo LP record intrinsically have tons and tons of crosstalk? Therefore, any "true audiophile" should have no problem with crosstalk!
My ear aren’t that good to notice fine difference between two monoblock vs stereo one
If mono blocks were the norm, the introduction of one box stereo amplifiers would sell like hot cakes!
The specifications would allay any crosstalk fears, and the saving on clutter/ interconnects would be very attractive.
I box should cost less too!
Apologies to Fosi Audio, but short off any proven advantages, why????
When stereo was a new thing, monoblocs were the norm, like the Quad II and Leak TL12. Then when stereo power amps were invented, they sold like hot cakes!
@@AudioMasterclass One box mono block (inside) amplifiers are available though.
God help me I settled for an integrated 80 watt class AB amp.
Preview/sample packaging = somewhat recyclable. Fancy consumer packaging = still somewhat recyclable, what about the inks used, more styrofoam, etc.
Won't power 20.7s 😮
2-Rel Carbon Specials
JLA cr-1 active crossover
Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohms
Shunyata Denali 6000s v2 20A
Shunyata Research Alpha XC
Kimber Select KS6063 2.5m
W4S 10th edition DAC2V2SE
BS Node N130 (optical)
And a tiny Di............
There is actually a subtle audible sound difference, especially with balanced inputs.
Dual Mono vs Stereo with Bal/Unbal. inputs sound demo ( Fosi ZA3 vs ZA3 vs V3, from VirtualHifi):
ua-cam.com/video/JqtetlCEsNo/v-deo.html&lc=UgxMGXBzgk2vioQaSzB4AaABAg
What you said about speaker cables, better cables can make a difference throughout the whole system.
If the V3 are that good, why does the manufacturer make inaccurate claims? That shared power brick is rated at 48 volts and 10 amps, or 480 watts. The manufacturer claims those V3 monoblocks each put out 240 watts into 4 ohms. In order to do this, they would have to be 100% efficient. They’re not. They get warm. Electrical inefficiency equates to heat. Enough said.
I wonder what other inaccurate claims are being made?
Measuring power output in a meaningful and comparable way has been an issue back to the 1970s. Unfortunately nothing has changed. Any manufacturer that quoted power output in continuous average watts would look bad in comparison to the others. So the situation continues. This is why I usually quote the specs of the power supply because that imposes an absolute limit on what the amp can achieve.
@@AudioMasterclass my point exactly. 👍
This is the third video I’ve seen where an inordinate amount of time is spent describing the amps build and not one second on how it sounds. What’s the deal??