Is Taiwan's Battery Swap Tech the Future of EVs?
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2023
- I went to Taiwan to check out Gogoro's electric scooters and network of 2,400 battery swap stations.
Special thanks to Jon, Wendy, and Daniel for helping with the video!
Sources:
- MRT costs eng.taiwan.net.tw/m1.aspx?sNo...
- Cost per litre of fuel in Taipei www.globalpetrolprices.com/Ta...
- Scooter fuel consumption www.scootercentral.com.au/exp...
- Scooter parking costs www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiw...
- Scooter pollution study phys.org/news/2014-05-two-str...
- Scooter CO2 emissions scootersfornewbies.com/scoote...
- 2022 Gogoro annual report investor.gogoro.com/static-fi...
- Gogoro riding plans network.gogoro.com/tw/riding-...
- Gogoro GoCharger Mobile www.gogoro.com/smart-energy/g...
- Battery weight electrek.co/2022/03/08/gogoro...
- Gogoro specs www.gogoro.com/smartscooter/s...
- Solid state battery www.gogoro.com/news/solid-sta...
- Shared e-scooters english.cw.com.tw/article/art...
- Wemo fleet numbers topics.amcham.com.tw/2022/04/...
- Gogoro's share of electric scooter market in Taiwan www.gogoro.com/news/electric-...
- Quick guide to using GoShare / quick_guide_to_using_g...
- Scooter subsidies www.gogoro.com/news/taiwan-20...
- Gogoro's expansion plans www.forbes.com/sites/shanshan...
- Gogoro station subsidies meet-global.bnext.com.tw/arti...
- Taipei scooter subsidies www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiw...
- 2023 2nd quarter Gogoro financial report investor.gogoro.com/news-rele...
- GDP per capita of countries www.imf.org/external/datamapp...
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A lot of people have mentioned that most scooters are now 4 stroke. Thanks for letting me know. I'm curious as to how the 4 strokes do on the smog front. A really quick search point to them being more polluting then vehicles when it comes to smog, but maybe the newest models are better? www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/greenspace/story/2011-09-28/mythbusters-asks-are-motorcycles-greener-than-cars
As for transportation, I totally agree that public transit is the best way to go. Living in Tokyo I don't own a car and generally use my feet, my bike, or take the train (and sometimes bus). I believe Taipei is really trying to boost their public transportation and since they started their MRT system in 1996, they've made a really fantastic system. Combined with the You Bikes (their bicycle share service), it was a great way to travel. What I was reporting on was that there is still a massive amount of scooters on the road in the city and in the country. I think that if a scooter is going to be on the road, the best would be to make it electric, but overall, using public transportation is even better. Have a great day everyone!
Another problem is the price of Gogoro's and their charging programs that only compensate if you ride above 60km every day.
Briefly.
2 stroke burns the engine oil. That's why smog.
4 stroke is what you have on car petrol engines. It doesn't intentionally burn engine oil. Less smog.
For more info. driving 4 answer channel.
ua-cam.com/video/eKUEZY3R3cI/v-deo.html
Two stroke scooters are pretty much dead, there are still a few old ones about but I couldn't see any in the video. The only place you will find two stroke equipment these days are weed eaters and a few remaining dirt bikes.
Many modern scooters use fuel injection which makes them cleaner than ever. Honda kicked off the race in 2004 with its PGM-FI water cooled 4 strokers that are cleaner than their old 2 stroke counterparts. While being more expensive to make than an air cooled two stroke economies of scale, worldwide crackdowns on pollution made them the go to, they are cheaper to run too and their mpg is great.
Besides the big Japanese manufacturers of Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki, even most of the smaller Tawian marketed bikes like the TVS Ntorq are all fuel injected 4 strokes, though some do skimp on the water cooling which can higher emissions levels.
For quantifiable purposes something like a Honda 125 grom emits 34g-co2/km and consumes 1.5l gasoline/100km. A small hatchback like a Suzuki swift 1.2 will emit 106g-co2/km.
So a modern small hatchback emits about the same pollution as 3 modern scooters. In theory if you could replace four scooters with 1 car that people all carpooled in then you would may reduce emissions slightly but in reality its not going to happen as the modern scooter is very clean. And car pooling with dropping people off at different locations and riding a partially full car negates any benefits as the difference is so small.
"A single two-stroke engine produces pollution equivalent to that of 30 to 50 four-stroke automobiles." David Kushner, Discover Magazine
you are going from Point A to Point B. Who cares about strokes. it is better than having EV cars for a single to Dual ridership.
As a taiwanese, I would say that improving public transit is much more important than replacing gas scooters with EV scooters, the huge amount of vehicles here really cause to terrible traffic.
I agree, the proper solution should be improving the rail network and public transit, not EV cars or scooters. Less battery waste and traffic problems.
The exhaust and noise from gas scooters (and cars) are serious problems that affect everyone's health. Gogoro is so much better in all aspects.
Don't start on 'but the battery waste'... when they can be nearly 100% recycled compared to all the gasoline which is 0% recycled and ends up in everyone's lungs and waterways
@@thomasreese2816Quite a short sighted response and not all that relevant to the comment above.
@@thomasreese2816 "nearly" is not completely, battery waste is still a major concern that hampers it from being eco friendly, on top of the electric sources used to power those batteries. Also mining lithium for batteries creates huge environmental problems in many parts of the world that are not worth it just so that Lee and Chang in Taiwan can feel good while riding their scooters.
funny, north americas (US and canada) where people drive 2-ton truck to buy a cup of coffee , and say they care about ecology.
people of taiwan where people ride 100 mpg, are the one actually trying to make difference.
🤨🤨
I can relate of the amount of scooter, like in Indonesia. Because of mass transit didn't reach the coverage needed, so people using private vehicle such as car or motocycle.
Got used to the noise made, air polution is another story. Still got annoyed when suddenly exhaust gas hits your face while driving. People's habit of smoking while driving adds irritation to it.
EV especially swapable batteries definitely game-changer.
iirc, KAI stations there have dedicated terminals for ride hailing scooters, i.e. GoJek. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
@@ianhomerpura8937 But only for that ride hailing scooters & few cities (ie Jakarta). Even if they have terminals and allow other EV to charge, the battery & connector must be the same, which is a challenge because each electric vehicle manufacturer has different battery specifications. This is different from petrol vehicles where the "battery" is relatively the same for each vehicle.
It works on taiwan because the EV battery specification is same in every terminals (I don't want to prejudice it, is it because the market has been monopolized by one brand so all specifications can be the same?)
其實台灣大眾運輸很發達
會騎機車是方便
台灣人70%外食
機車5-10分就能購買食物
台灣人外食率世界第一
WOnder if cities could make a park and ride and block off areas unless you pay a toll to drive into the city. It would generate revenue for the public transit and make more people use it. It's just a thought.
I see more and more battery swap stations in lots of places coming up in Jakarta. Few even in gas stations. and the time it takes for swapping batteries is less than waiting to fill your bike.
Very true about the noise of the gas scooters. It's non stop 24 hrs, and in residential areas it's a challenge to sleep well, if you're a visitor, lol.
The servicing of gas scooters in Taiwan is absolutely awesome! Extremely fast and plentiful repair shops. I think it will take many more years for electric scooters to replace the very efficient and convenient gas scooter network in Taiwan.
It enrages me that they added noise pollution to the electric scooters.
@@kjh23gkHow would you avoid the safety issues then?
@@kjh23gk because NOBODY looks first, so at least you have some cues
This is a really well done video! Very informative and I particularly loved the visuals you put for more detail/context/sourcing of the numbers you give, like the small text message like bubble or the yellow frame that doesn't hide the interesting part of the image. Really good visual format overall, I loved it, congratulations :)
Transportation in Taipei is almost perfect. There's:
(1) the MRT (subway) system, with clean, reliable and frequent trains coming (a 2-3 minute-wait is the average) - possible the best in the world, up there with Tokyo and Seoul, better than Singapore's imo,
(2) the YouBike system, where you use you EasyCard (also used for the MRT and public buses) to rent bicycles at any MRT station (and 100s of other spots in Taipei) to continue your journey (and you can return it at any YouBike station),
(3) the GoShare that you covered in your video, there's almost always a Gogoro nearby, and every GoShare has two helmets in the trunk
(4) Many bus lines in and outside the city. Buses come frequently and are cheap
(5) Taxis and Ubers
(6) Sidewalks almost everywhere (except the small streets) if you prefer to walk
(7) Your own bicycle - the city is getting to be more bike-friendly, and the riverside parks are a cyclist's dream
Hong Kong MTR laughs at your MRT. (But yes, Taiwan's is definitely ahead of Tokyo, Seoul and especially Singapore).
@@xiaoka Both Hong Kong and Taipei MRT systems have a 99 to 100% reliability, meaning both are at the very top of the world, so there's really no need to debate this (or laugh at the other) very much. I'm happy Taipei's trains are not as crowded as Hong Kong's, and the Hong Kong system has a slightly higher frequency at peak hours, so you might have to wait 50 more longer in Taipei but you'll have a much better chance at a seat. Both can claim they're the best, it just depends on what your priorities are. Let's just agree to disagree, and that disagreement is really about minor, minor details.
Taipei scooters are crazy! Electric will be a major improvement over the noise and stink of the gas powered scooters for sure - their noise detracts from Taiwan’s charms. Curious about the stat you pulled re: VOCs, though - it says 2-stroke engines, but I believe most are 4 stroke, which has a drastically different emissions profile.
Noise perspective wise, it's still quite noisy for me to be totally honest. The high-pitched eletric motor noise isn't any better then good old gas-powered ones. Only thing good is that it does not emit stinky gases.
@@onehourmusicbc :
Two factors:
The un-burn Gasolines caused by Maintenance of the Scooters/🛵 🛵 Motorbikes. Owners and Government can work in partnership with plans to keep Vehicles in good shape.
Don't know about how Taiwan generate their Electric Powers? In China, they use Coals and Fossils which profiles/percent of Coals are like 55% (82% or more of Fossils) left with less than 18% from Solar/Wind and other non C02)... That is even dirty as charges... Coals fired up in Generators have Chimney and Pipe up 300 feet/ 100m in the Air; there is no Plant or 🎄 🎄 🌿 🌿 that neutralized some of C02 through Photosynthesis Green Process and by Nature.
The Extra-weight of 🔋 🔋 vs Gasoline-powered when Tank filled up or close to empty is quite a contrast; an ICE Scooter has tanks of less than 5 litters; can Ride us 100km or more before we fill up another Tank (5 litters) while as a Scooter EV is 25 kg heavier by the weights of 2 🔋 🔋; and the Electric Powers generated from Coals or Wind Turbines or Solar Panels are under 25% efficient and though Electric Motors from Scooter or Cars claimed 80% efficient versus an ICE is about 45%.
The combination of 25% efficiency in Electricity Generations then 80% of Electric Motor made it .25 * .8 = less than 20% efficient
Now let's see a pure Gasoline Scooter which is about 45-50% depended upon what designs and other Factors.
Drive/ Ride less on Motorized Vehicles more on Bicycles with Pedals; We should have plenty of time to Exercised biking to save 1hr a day then go to the Gyms that cost C02 to build the place and made those exercise Pelotons and equipped Electric Exercise Treads.
Regards,
In China already this happened. especially in the south. Taipei is way behind when it comes to tech...
I slightly disagree with what the woman said and about prices in general.
If you take full advantage of the government subsidies you can get a Gogoro scooter, basic one with 2 batteries for around 50K NTD (Gogoro Viva MIX), while a cheap gas scooter is also around that range. The cheap single-battery Gogoro Viva is around 30K NTD (50cc class).
While the Gogoro Supersport or Yamaha EC-05 will cost around 110K without subsidies, so down to 80K if you maximise everything. While a similarly powerful gas scooter will cost the same or slightly more (100k or more).
The price of "fuel" is highly dependent on what plan you use.
A regular gas scooter uses about 3L/100KM which costs 33NTD per litre. Let's say 100NT per 100KM.
I have a 1300KM per month plan and pay 969 NTD, there are also unlimited plans available for 1500NTD.
Especially for people who ride a lot per month, it's cheaper in the long run to have an electric scooter than a gas scooter, and gas prices are rising here as well. (3 NT in the last couple of months)
I've been using a Yamaha EC-05 since 2021 and have been riding around over 1000KM per month while living in Zhunan ( sort of the central of Taiwan), which is a rural area.
There are more swapping stations than petrol stations in Taiwan.
The real world range (city and a bit overland) is around 50-60KM per charge.
During my trip around Taiwan (2 people on scooter) we managed up to 75KM per charge, although we never tried to push it that far and the 75KM was a mistake because we were lazy 🤣.
I`m glad to see that finally someone with a wider audience is covering this topic as I think this gogoro "movement" is really awesome.
Sadly I don't live in Tamsui during the request of people who have gogoro, I could identify every place you've been in Tamsui as it's my new neighbourhood 😅.
50000 ntd is like 1700 usd which is cheap for a scooter in the us. A 50 cc vespa in the usa is roughly 3x the price.
Also, it wasn't mentioned that the batteries aren't purchased with the rest of the scooter. So comparing the total cost of a battery subscription vs gas is misleading because a substantial part of the subscription is paying off the cost of the batteries. The actual cost of the electricity itself would be more comparable to the cost of charging a car in other countries.
@@grahamguenther8989 I don't think this is misleading. As battery + electricity replaces the gas.
I don't know how it is in Taiwan, but here in Germany, as gas prices rise. Electricity cost go up as well. So I wouldn't bet on a cheap subscription forever
AND we sadly have no swapping station but instead little charge stations for cars so they aren't that good comparable.
But our charging services aren't bound to the electricity price. So even if electricity costs 0,40€ per kwh they can charge you 1,5€ per kwh....
@@blablup1214
It is definitely not misleading. Instead of gas, you either buy the subscription or pay per AH with a very low base fee per month.
The good thing about this that you don´t need to worry about the battery, ever.
I've lived in Vietnam, Thailand and Taiwan and I'd put them in that order as far as how dangerous it is to drive. I choose not to own a scooter here at this time - previously did when I lived in Taoyuan, which is not a crowded as Taipei. While MRT stations don't always get you within a few blocks of your destination, there's an option you didn't get into: YouBike. Many times YouBike can be used to efficiently get from the MRT station to within a block or two of your destination in Taipei (they have a great app for locations and available bikes). It's a hybrid option but you don't have to buy, rent, drive, or park a scooter. Best of all you just use your MRT card for all of it. Things like this make Taipei a better organized city and more liveable than Bangkok or Saigon. Great video!
I live in Indonesia
We do have Gogoro and other battery swapping EV with Gogoro tech available, but only in few big cities in Java (in particular Jakarta and its satellites)
Landscape, infrastructure and cost are the main reason the adoption rate of swappable battery tech is slow
As for EV, the adoption rate is getting higher since we have subsidies from the govt
Maybe we will someday be the capital of EV in SEA
How’s transit in Indonesia?
@@GenericUrbanism transit?
@@thousandeyesidol like public transportation
@@GenericUrbanism ah I see
we have busses and angkot (commuter van) as a means of cheap transportation.
But nowadays many people rides motorcycle or scooter and ridesharing
You may have heard of GoJek & Grab, the two largest ridesharing companies in SEA
@@thousandeyesidol in more rural area, angkot and other public transport is dying. It's basically mandatory to own a motor nowadays. Even jobs expect you to have one.
Love this classic LWIM story telling style
This channel has grown in depth and skill since its early days, yet still bears a semblance. I kind of miss the children, but understand that they likely have more important things going on, and also may not feel comfortable on camera anymore.
Never heard of Gogoro before, but here in Laos, people bought a lot of electric scooters the last couple of years, because of rising inflation coupled with high gas prices.
Here, you just plug the scooter with a cable into a wall outlet. No battery swapping and because most people can park their scooters inside their house, I don't think that will be popular anyway.
Just a note about the pollution of gas scooters being higher than cars. The paper you mentioned was talking about 2-stroke engines. Most scooters are build with 4-stroke engines now, which pollute less.
There are plenty of 2-stroke scooters in Taiwan. They are bulletproof and low-income people swear by them thus the lack of political will to outlaw them.
@@holmiumh true, but all of the new scooters being produced are 4 stroke. it's only a matter of time before we'll see the complete phasing out of the 2 stroke, especially if the manufacturers stops supplying parts for them
Thank you for the video! I really liked that you also pointed out the current issues and problems. I think that there is a huge potential for this swapping tech
Love your new techy videos, keep up the good work
Beautifully shot and to the point! This is a reference/bookmark video for sure. 👍
Nice video! Another advantage of BAAS is that Gogoro can charge their batteries in off peak hours to save costs, and also use a rate of charge that preserves battery health. They are also starting to use their battery swap stations for load balancing so that can be another source of revenue. And old batteries can be repurposed - for example to power traffic lights when the power is down.
I would be careful with pushing the idea of old battery reuse. Old batteries are far more likely to catch fire. Which is by the way why the idea of power walls will be soon bubble bursted by the related prohibitive insurance costs as insurance companies having real numbers are first to take notice.
@@mrtopcat2 How ? "Old batteries are far more likely to catch fire"
@@user-nwwioxy By having older cels, some of which can go flat and overheat. Such overheating cels are a known issue and part of old batteries. Indeed it is via their heat signature, how they are being spotted and replaced. However apparently some of these overheating cels do have a potential to more seriously overheat to a point that results in fire.
Where I'm from (the Philippines) Gogoro is launching this year, hopefully it can help ease the traffic congestion you've documented in Manila and the worsening air pollution, too
Hopefully no one decides to steal a few batteries to make a couple of fakes. You know someone is going to try. Not to mention stealing the scooters themselves.
This feels like the second coming of cellphones. If you know, you know.
I doubt it will help with traffic at all, but, it will help with air quality.
People will steal them for sure. Dont think it will work in the philippines aa most filipinos are questionable in terms of values. Lots of scammers and theives same as the US
it can only ease traffic congestion if less people are using the roads. If not, you're just adding more people that use the road, or replacing the ones that already were using it.
Yes will be in PH soon. And you will be able to use a wide variety of different motorbikes from different manufacturers that implement those batteries.
Lmao Congestion is caused because the Phillipines don't have MRT
Thank you for the video, i really appreciate the all the important information you researched and presented. I was thinking about bringing gogoro to my country but now I see the many issues,
This has changed my perspective on this subject.
I was pretty amazed by these when I saw them on a visit in 2019. Looked so very handy!
very cool! Very underrated topic, thanks for the video!
So interesting and well researched as always in your videos👏
This is awesome! It keeps people way safer and the batteries are taken care of properly. I think this works so well in a country like Taiwan or any country/city that has a cohesive culture that doesn't have too many problems with vandalism.
Vandalism is the sole reason why this would never work in the US. :(
台湾不是国家，是中国的一个省
It's always interesting to see your content!
Loooove when you cover transportation/land use topics!
Without a doubt, the swiftness of the battery swapping service for scooters is just genuinely astounding! This is the way forward! Here’s hoping the cost is reasonable whilst helping to drastically cut down on pollution! Technology will continue to advance and generate more clean solutions.
Not with people like Elon Musk and Steve Jobs who constantly create proprietary everything so they can continue to milk people.
its around as fast as getting gas, in fact it could be faster depending on how quick you are.
@@speedy01247 compared to charging them at home, not compared to fueling. Nobody cares about extra 5 sec lmao
The charging battery stations would be a great idea in NYC! We have a lot of apartment fires here because of plug-in electric vehicles; plus having ev in New York gives you tax reimbursement for cars, it should be expanded to motorized vehicles that would push more people to switch over
Great Vid, love your content. Cheers to you and your family!
You are so brave using the scooter in Taiwan! Traffic is so crazy I wouldn't want to drive there. Love the MRT though!
Love it, seen the concept but never realised this is a real thing. Very insightful
I truly believe that this is the future of two wheeled mobility and Gogoro have a proven business model. So I've been an early investor and so far, very disappointed in the stock performance. I hope they can bring their business into other parts of the world, especially where I live; Thailand. I'm sure it would be a success there.
If they made snow tires for scooters, I'd ride one 😂 how do they do in 40cm of snow and ice
Love the idea! it's crazy how asia with its big population adapt with their innovations.
Great video and thanks for all the accompanying data. As someone who used to ride their bicycle around Taiwan, any reduction of gas powered scooters would have been very welcome! Interesting that Taiwan is a place in the sweet spot of high-scooter ridership with an accompanying comparatively higher economic purchasing power per person. Seems ripe for increased usage of the system.
Neat Video. Excellent sound comparison.
I love that Gogoro Electrum, fun fact about that bike is that originally they didn't have those back handle/guard so people sit in the back would just slide off from the huge torque this beast produce, and it's pretty silly since nobody thought that it would be so nimble.
Good info. Just a heads up, NIO, the electric car company, has a unique car battery swap service. Which is to drive the car into the swap station, and the station will automatically remove the existing battery from the bottom of an NIO electric car and swap a fully charged one back on. It took about 15 minutes for the whole swap. Two of my friends have NIO, and they said watching the station do its thing is kinda fun.🤣
Thank you very much for this. I'd never have guessed this was going on.
Very cool that you looked into this. I was in China about 5 years ago and I was surprised to see the number of scooters instead of bikes on the road since the last time I was there. And I think they were pretty much all electric scooters so I wondered how they were charging them. Still fun to see a family of 4 on one of them... I ride a maxi scooter in the US but want to switch it to an electric but still want a really good range. What we have in the small city that I live in are ebike stations. There's a number of them around the city and you can use the bike trails to get to places without being on the road for the most part.
Woww cool to see you in Taipei ❤
I remember seeing the interview of entrepreneur of gogoro with the biggest smile on his face when he was starting the battery swapping scooter company.
Great video. Hope you enjoyed Taiwan!
There is gogoro scooters in Germany too but when you park your scooter and the battery is low, there comes a service car and swap the batteries for the next person whos gonna rent it
You are definetely a one man National Geographics. Awesome dude!!
"Alot" might be an understatement
Thanks for the video. From the places I’ve been to on the USA, although electricity at home is cheaper than gas per mile, that’s not the case with public charging.
Electricity costs at public stations cost as much as gas for a car that gets 25mpg.
Interesting and well done video.
I’ve always thought that this is the program that automobiles need to adopt to prevent them turning into trash when the batteries need replaced.
U would need to lift 100-200kg of batteries into the charging slot, impractical.
@@caveyful that's what lifting machinery or robotic lifts are for.
@@caveyful ua-cam.com/video/WOsy_EvtHr4/v-deo.htmlsi=OGtXzaGgXXVw_EQm
Great video, thanks!
Greg you did great !!!!🎉🎉thank you for this topic. Its very crowded and too much pollution !!! It has to stop !!!
I just got back from the Philippines and visited the Gogoro store there in Makati. They just started selling their scooters there this month and have 5 battery swap stations in metro manila. Their scooters are definitely pricey compared to other similar motorcycles, but they're targeting a wealthier demographic and I think the main selling point will be that they're more fun to drive. They have >2x the torque of comparable sized motorcycles.
Super interesting video! I definitely think this recharge method for EVs could be useful, especially for long-distance travels. One thing specifically in Taiwan that I wonder about is the efficiency of the scooters, in the sense that depending on how efficient they are and how clean/dirty the electricity that powers the battery is, traditional scooters might even have a lower CO2 impact than electric ones. I doubt this is the case for Taiwan considering coal "only" makes 35% of the total electricity generation, their plan of closing down their nuclear plants definitely doesn't help in ensuring emissions for EVs stay/become even lower than what they currently are, hopefully they change course of action and keep them operating.
I spent some time in China almost 10 years ago and already then there were many many electric scooters, it's quite incredible to see how much more common not only scooters, but specifically electric scooters were and still are in Asia compared to Western countries.
Keep in mind ICEs are really inefficient. There's a good chance even on entirely coal power the emissions excluding manufacturing are still lower.
Electric vehicles are cleaner than their gasoline counterparts on all grids around the world, even the theoretical ones that only run on coal. Electric is ~3x more efficient at the vehicle level, and even more when considering energy generation+ delivery
Indeed. Taiwan really should not close down the nuclear power plants. Relying on fossil fuels would be a horrible idea.
Well the math checks out to EVs definitely having lower emissions than gas scooters
@@t4w1m94 I mean you never exclude manufacturing when it comes to assessing the impact of a product. The use-phase of an entirely electric coal-powered scooter is obviously lower than an ICE equivalent, but it makes no sense to assess it in that way, especially when EVs see most of their emissions precisely during manufacturing.
That Gogoro station is slick!
Indonesia also have high density of scooters and they also use their horns frequently so you get the engine noise plus the horns.
Horns can be quieter in the future when the loud sounds of gas engines are gone
this was really interesting. never knew about the battery hot swap tech in actual use.
seen numerous ideas but no actual usage cases
Your videos are the best!
I am envy for this kind of revolutionary service. I followed the story of Gogoro since they started and I think that is a real solution for transforming our transporting industry. It is sad that they did not come to europe to do the same. At least they should import their bikes and batteries to Europe without the swapping, charging services. There are very few affordable, reliable e-scooter here.
I'm kinda surprised the vid didn't mention europe as a possible market for this, but only the much less wealthy neighbours. I thought scooters had a relatively high market penetration in some mediterranean countries too, esp Italy? Maybe its nothing by SE Asian standards, but they are much wealthier. Is that really not a market attractive to a company like this?
Nice job! You do good work!
I am one of the 9 million Taiwanese who doesn't own any scooters. Riding a scooter is the most dangerous means of transportation in Taiwan. As you pointed out, it's cheap and convenient, regardless of its danger, it is still the most prevalent transportation here. I won't recommend any foreigner to ride a scooter while visiting Taiwan.
You mean Chinese 😊
@@jamesliston5693no
@@jamesliston5693 Nothing wrong with people who live in TAIWAN calling themselves TAIWANese. Or even people came from Taiwan but no longer live there--we can call ourselves 'Taiwanese', too!
@@jamesliston5693lmao imagine . Try a move and USA will hunt u down mf 😂
Actually, there is one place in Taiwan that I would recommend driving a scooter. That would be Penghu where the streets are way wider and there are less drivers. 😅😅
A good work out, pulling those in and out.
I thought the tech was really cool. I was wondering if the could be used in different configurations and in different vehicles. Like could you put 3 or 4 in a vehicle to give it better range or power? Or put a single one on a bicycle (although at around 10kg it's probably too heavy)?
I think one issue that will always prevail with battery swaps is that people who charge at home and strictly according to the doctrines of prolonging battery life and thereby don't wear down their batteries much are going to be not too interested in swapping their good batteries against batteries of unknown. This may not be a big deal if we are talking about small and inexpensive batteries, but that changes once large and expensive batteries are involved.
@@mrtopcat2Lots of people would be happy with battery swaps in a high-trust society. Once we push through the coming collapse, we may yet see this technology adopted in a more homogeneous and unified country.
I recently noticed you're on nebula so you post exclusive videos there. I've used nebula for years so I'm not sure how I only just today noticed you're there & watched this video there today
@@michaelmayhem350 Right now it's only early access, not exclusive. I joined in the spring of 2023.
@@mrtopcat2 With this system you don't own any of the batteries, so you don't have to worry about "your" good batteries being swapped for good ones. This also means you don't own your batteries, which some people may not like.
If only Taiwanese government can improve on pedestrian walkability and public transport it would be better to further reduce the need of private vehicles to commute around.
As a Taiwanese, I have a conclusion that Taiwan has the WORST traffic safety of Asia. Our driver licence test is so easy that even a monkey can get one. As the result of this, there is a bunch of idiots driving on the road, and how could we expect safety if we have this kind of drivers?
I think the battery swap is a genius way to go. No upfront battery cost for the consumer, and no time lost for charging. The hardest thing will be that a lot of places in the world would cry about a battery monopoly, or have so many battery types that the convenience is lost.
That's what regulated standards are for. Like there are for petrol/diesel pumps for example. You could easily create a standard that uses CANBUS (industry standard for in vehicle communication) for communication between battery/vehicle and battery/charge station, create standard sizes of batteries (you could even have one for electric bicycles!) and thats about it. Make the standard open and everyone can create batteries and everyone can build and operate a battery station.
Or you could also make a state owned company who owns and operates it at cost, that would also work quite nicely.
As usage grows will the battery swapping service grow appropriately? I can see pulling into a station where all the batteries have been recently exchanged and there are no charged batteries to replace your exhausted ones. You did not cover how long it takes to recharge a battery.
I like how everyone who should find a downside of a perfectly efficient form of transport gives example of two strokes of the last century or noise, not engine noise, but noise.
Between this and that video Tom Scott did on that country that only has "cars" for things like home maintenance, construction, etc., something like this should be the main transportation for most people. That's amazing - and they take up so much less space than cars. Always going to be some problems, but here in the US where even huge SUVs and trucks are being made into EVs (the average person definitely doesn't need that), this would be a welcome change. Scooters seem much more pedestrian friendly than roads filled with cars, despite the drawbacks.
Yeah. The people waiting at the intersection looked a lot like just a crowd of people, not vehicles.
I suppose public transport is still necessary for those who, for various reasons, can't ride scooters, but this is such a pleasant alternative to cars.
"that country" was actually just one small mountainous town in Switzerland: Zermatt
@@idiottv6499 Mass public transit is still need for, well, the masses. It's still way more efficient then individual traffic. Sure, a scooter is better then a car, and sometimes, depending on the locations better then public transit, but if the public transit system is setup properly, it can and does replace a lot of traffic. Just a reminder that a decently sized bus here transports 200 people quite quickly, and only takes up the space in traffic for a 2-4 cars, and maybe as much as 10-20 scooters.
@@RobinCernyMitSuffix to be perfectly frank I don't care about efficiency that much and I think this is a common position.
Scooters are dense enough in my view.
Great video. As an outside observer (used to visit once per year but haven't been there since 2019; hoping to resume annual visits in 2024), Taiwan seems to be a bit behind (Europe) in decarbonizing its electrical grid. Ironic b/c it is otherwise known for being on the cutting edge of technology.
They are not behind per say, but on a better controlled trajectory to de carbonizing. We've had a lot of issues with energy price hikes and grid stabilization issues due to the fact they want to go green so quickly. Not everyone can afford those crazy prices that keep getting worse and worse. Doesn't help that more than 50% of fuels that are supplied to many parts of Europe got taken away when Nato cut off Russian fuel supplies.
In the early 1900's there was a lot of electric taxis, and I mean a lot in NYC. They ran on lead acid batteries and sat on a wood plank in the trunk of the vehicle. They had battery swapping stations all of NYC for these services and it was like a NASCAR pitstop for electric cars lol
Without oil parons who wanted wars we could drive 1000km with small battery
I was really supprise when were there in2018, a girl come to a public leasing battery holder in a small hotel where i stayed for exchanging her battery. Omg, like an Atm station, simply convinient, shocked me at that time. Taiwan is a very modern place, very different with their motherland, even their looks and sounds are same... a lot good things from Taiwan can be learnt for any other countries.
As someone how used to regularly rent a gas scooter on trips to Taipei, it's great to see this new generation of tech making the city quieter and more efficient.
It's funny to think some car manufacturers had a battery swapping feature. From the late 1800 until the early 1900s. If you were subscribed you'd drive into a garage and in about 3-5 minutes your car had a fully charged battery.
I really hope for success with this. It could easily be extended to light 4-wheel vehicles with the same type of battery pack, and with swapping taking less time than tanking gas you get infinite range in practice. Both exhaust of chemical pollutants and noise could be lowered a lot, and the scooter is about as practical as a motorized vehicle can be.
I visit Taiwan a lot. I personally opine that the reason for high scooter adoption rate in Taiwan was due to the design of roads. There are way too many traffic lights and crossroads, and the way their traffic light is designed, green but have to wait to turn. It makes more sense to ride a scooter that moves easier rather than a car that accelerates slower
It's good that they have charging stations to swap and store the batteries, now the batteries can self combust in one place, while being charged.
like gas isn't also combustible. oh wait thats LITERALLY why gas is useful.
They are on to something there! Can't wait to see this battery tech go mainstream it's genius!
Spend thousands of hours on electric high reach fork lifts. Two lead acid batteries per lift. One in the machine, one in the rack charging. Could lift a ton 27' in the air. The heavy battery provided stability. Took ten minutes to change the battery. Only needed to change the battery every 10 hrs or so.
wow, battery as a service is pretty great
As Taiwanese, we've seen numerous news reports critiquing the durability of Gogoro. For instance, in my case, I've been using my motorcycle for 25 years, and maintenance costs are practically non-existent. Gogoro, being a relatively new product, may not stand the test of time when measured in years. Despite claims of using environmentally friendly materials, its cost is considerably higher, and it appears to prioritize style over durability.
I believe that durability is the most significant factor to consider. Gogoro, when left exposed to the elements on the road, is susceptible to damage from wind and sun exposure. In contrast, traditional Taiwanese motorcycles have evolved to endure outdoor conditions for several years without any problems. However, it's still advisable not to leave them near the seaside to prevent metal corrosion from saltwater exposure.
Great insight!
I've always thought this was a great idea when Gogoro came to market all those years ago. I drive a car, but I try to use an e-device most of the time. I'd definitely subscribe if they came to my hometown.
This is absolutely genius. I wish EV cars were done like this.
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You would have to lift 100-200kg of batteries at a time to recharge a car.
This is an interesting topic to discuss. I do believe we have to be more eco-friendly. Surely batteries can't be the same in that regard.
As an all-in Gogoro investor I think there is a very interesting EV company that is now ramping manufacturing. It offers a car, truck and van that like the new cybertruck has drive-by-wire technology! Amazingly you can buy the stock for only 24 cents a share! Imagine buying Tesla when it launched! Don’t miss out!They’re just now ramping up production! The stock is GOEV! I just put a $1000 stock order with betting $. I know it’s a long-shot, but the recent pivot to sell B2B to fleet buyers such as Amazon as delivery vans give it a unique niche Tesla hasn’t addressed yet
I saw one gogoro battery station in the Philippines beside the Globe tower in Bonifacio Global City which is facing the W Tower. What a weird location to put it in of all the places to start their network of e-scooters here in the country.
My first lesson in riding an electric scooter was through Ho Chi Minh city commute traffic. I lived to tell the story 🙂
That’s awesome 😎 Italy 🇮🇹 is great as well!
With higher battery energy density and designated car compartment or connector, I wonder if these could be used as gas can equivalent for discharged EVs
Battery-as-a-service. Now that's a cool idea!
Very interesting video
I know about Gogoro for about 10 years now I think. I remember sending inquiry to buy one so that I can import it to Europe but transport fees and registration problem put that idea off. I remember that Gogoro was supposed to enter European market about 5 years ago? Still didn't happen AFAIK
So how do they deal with old scooter batteries that are no longer able for use? How well do they recycle the battery material and is the eco cost of recycling lower than with gas versions?
This is the right solution not only for Scooters but for EV cars as well. This should be implemented instead of "charging" stations
Robotic replacement of battery pack for EV cars...
a scooter with interchangeable batteries is genius and the fact the manufacturer has battery stations is awesome you don't have to worry about battery derogation
I'm watching because Gogoro will open a store in the Philippines this month if not already.
Heard last month that Gogoro Escooters will enter PH market soon.
Loved this one!
Battery swap been around in the Mainland for years, even for cars like the NEO who installed station to do car battery swaps in less time than it takes to fuel a car.
When I heard that EVs needed 1 hour to charge to full battery, I did wonder if fuel stations could have EV Mechanics that could do a battery swap in 5-10 mins, making EV charging quite viable
So when I heard about battery swap scooters, I must admit I was super currious, and quite thankful that it is the predominant way to charge EVs in Taiwan, as I was predicting.
Very interesting.
At first I was surprised about the need to manually replace batteries, but given how quick the swap is, as shown in this video, it's a good way to replenish energy. For cars this wouldn't be possible that's why companies like Nio use automated stations that can replace a battery with way more energy within a few minutes.
to be fair, most people don't need to travel that far to actually use that much energy, most trips are way shorter, look it up ;). There are people who drive daily and have to charge once or twice a week, or just charge slowly over night (which is also better for the longevity of the batteries), which I'm sure those gogoro battery stations do as well. If I would implement the charging logic for them, I would charge as much as I can during the night, or day if there is a lot of excess PV power on the grid, but still charge slowly, unless the amount of fully charged batteries in the station become low, then I would charge a few a bit faster. It's better how ever you put it: Cheaper to charge, less wear on the battery, so they last longer, but you still provide the same service.
@@RobinCernyMitSuffix one interesting thing to consider is if there's a blackout those batteries could theoretically help cover the grid, yeah its definitely not going to be enough to cover the whole grid, but it could turn a surge in demand or a drop in production from a black/brown out to something that was handleable by the grid. I don't know what I am talking about so don't take anything as definitively possible, but its an idea which I hope others with more knowledge could look into.
Its so cool to have seen this video before I go to Taiwan for the first time! I'll be in Taipei and Taichung in January. Where does the electric power grid get its power though?
Thanks for the interesting video!
Via underground cables, duh :P
Interesting topic, it shows how battery swapping is something feasible, I would like to see that in my home country, right now we have heavy pollution in mid and big cities
Taiwan is an amazing place. I myself love electric scooters. but in Greece we still prefer gasoline ones
Have you ridden the later model Gogoro scooters with 7600+W of power? Top speed is 60mph. Won't be liking the gasoline scooters as much after that. Most regular Chinese electric scooters may be only 1200W power.
This is the one I was talking in EV solid state which you can just swap and go like a gas station. The most hurdle in EV are chargung bec people do not have patient especially in US which people loved driving in long ranges trip.