Activated Complex Meanwhile, Show Varys seemingly changes sides all the time (Aerys to Robert, Robert to Viserys, Viserys to Joffrey, Joffrey to Tommen, Tommen to Daenerys, Daenerys to Jon)
Diego Rodriguez In fairness to show Varys, though he still sucks compared to the books , five of those six shifts in allegiance were due to the death of the monarch in question. But yeah, that’s the problem with show Varys, he’s only ever reacting to events. As if his goal is mere survival. And even then, he breaks character (like everyone else) in the Lost Season.
Yes in the books Varys has been planning for yearss....still he forgot to tell “Queen” Daenerys .who distracted everyone with numerous wars and swayed on poles as she was carried through the street, cheered on by many crowds. And now “Queen” Daenerys, aka the mummers dragon is married to King Hizdhar in Essos. So while “Queen” Daenerys is lost in the Dothraki sea..with no control over Drogon, Aegon has already taken Griffin’s Roost and Storms end, with no fanfare what so ever.
Another hint that a Blackfyre is afoot: in AFFC Brienne VII, we get the story about the Bellringer Inn that passes to a new owner, a crippled man named Long Jon Heddle, who took up iron working when he grew too old to fight. He made a new sign for the inn's yard, a three-headed dragon of black iron that he hung from a wooden post. It's revealed that the sign is no longer at the inn because a generation later, the first Blackfyre rebellion occurred. The inn was on Darry land, Lord Darry was loyal to King Daeron, and the sign, being a mirror image of Daemon's sigil, enraged Lord Darry so he cut it into pieces and threw it in the river. Many years later, one of the black dragon's heads washed up on Quiet Isle, but by that time it was red with rust. A black dragon turning up after years presenting itself as red? Not to mention, it was created by a crippled man named Jon. Foreshadowing much?
Combined with the other hints that a Blackfyre is in the midst, like Quaithe's warning, the Undying visions, Illyrio's dialogue, Moqorro's vision of a "young, false, dark" dragon (or a false dragon, or a dark dragon depending on how you read it) the evidence that Aegon is a Blackfyre is pretty solid in my opinion. It's not all for nothing.
Ashley of Naath GRRM does foreshadowing so well. Bc of the surplus of information in each book, it isn’t as obvious, or can be interpreted in different ways. Imo there’s no doubting that fAegon is a Blackfyre. The only question I have is, who is the third dragon head? Dany and Jon I buy. That makes two. I know a lot of folks say Tyrion is the third... but I don’t buy it. I wonder if it’s possible that fAegon is the third dragon, even if he’s a Blackfyre. Could his and Dany’s ascension mend the Blackfyre and Targaryen houses? I doubt this, too, bc I think Connington’s greyscale will end with a plague and fAegon’s fall. I don’t think it necessarily has to be a Targaryen-the Dance of Dragons proved almost anyone with even a hint of Targaryen blood (or perhaps none) can ride a dragon. Maybe Quentyn is actually alive-he apparently has a touch of Targaryen blood. Or maybe it’s Euron utilizing his horn. Who knows? I just can wait to read Winds That’s the only big question that seems completely up in the air as far as possibilities go. I wish the show hadn’t abandoned some of these threads, but oh well.
@@cruddddddddddddddd I was just asking myself this exact question the other day. I was thinking two people. 1) Aurane Waters, because House Velaryon has Valerian blood. Not to mention he could have Targaryen blood in him as well. 2)Bellegere Otherys, the current Black Pearl of Braavos. She's descended from Aegon IV, so she's the blood of the dragon. Also, I see parallels between she and Nettles, who of course was a dragon seed during the first Dance of the Dragons (and if you ask me, Daemon's bastard daughter). I don't think George introduced Bellegere at this point in the story for no reason. I hope it's not Tyrion...I would hate that.
Ashley of Naath Good stuff. I hope the third head is a (currently) minor character. I love Tyrion, but I really don’t think it’s him. Some of my favorite characters in the books are minor characters who I think end up having the more interesting storylines. Like you, I also think there’s a lot to pull from the Reds vs the Blacks in predicting what will happen in ASOIAF. There are too many parallels, and history has a habit of repeating itself, in Westeros as well as life. I never considered Aurane Waters... but he’s already betrayed Cersei, and he does have Targaryen blood-and ships. It could be that Dany will use his ships to get back to Westeros, and there you go. I like the Bellegere parallel with Nettles-I honestly had to look Bellegere up, but Nettles is such a cool, mysterious character. If she has ships, that could also work. Yeah, I hope the stories go this route-or something like it. I really don’t see how Martin can wrap it up in only 2 books... not with all the various threads, and Martin’s penchant for packing his books with so many characters and subplots. I wouldn’t mind 3 or 4 more books-this is my favorite fantasy series. I always consider my reading life as such: Before reading A Game of Thrones, and after. When I read the prologue I was hooked. Nice bit of fresh theory there. Edit: Waters has Valyrian blood, not necessarily Targaryen, what I meant to say
I find it highly unlikely that "Aegon" is genuine: He's a Blackfyre. Why else would the Blackfyres' story be introduced in ADWD if not as foreshadowing? And Varys lacks a convincing motive for saving the real Aegon as a baby: Book Varys is not the whitewashed "I do everything for the people" character of the show: He's working for his own cause: He fosters stability when it suits his purpose and sows chaos when it suits his purpose
everything about him being a Blackfyre and Illyrio's son makes Illyrio and Varys's plotting make sense. Not sure why there is resistance to the theory.. there has been a Blackfyre rebellion in every era of ASOIAF history. Of course we will get another. Else what's the point of all that setup?
None of that will matter because how in the world will Daenerys prove it to anyone? Her war with fAegon will be the 2nd dance and cost her everything just like it did Rahenyra.
@swave158 1. Rhaegar is her brother, not her father. At least until confirmed otherwise. 2. Rhaegar actually did have a son (Aegon) and a daughter (Rhaenys). Aegon was killed by the mountain and Rhaenys was stabbed to death by Amory Lorch. So, even if your theory about Rhaegar being Dany's dad is true (which is possible), her sister would still be dead as a doornail, until proven otherwise.
I love how that everyone with Aegon is not who they appear to be/is lying about who they are: a chainless maester, a knight who is not a knight, a septa who isn't chaste, a lord who faked his own death, even Tyrion while he's with them is only playing a part. If Aegon is the one TRUE thing about this little band of misfits, that would be...strange to me. Storytelling wise, I think it's better if they're all a bunch of fakes and pretenders---like a mummer's troop ;)
@@lanestapp2 Hit the nail on the head, he can be a "fake" dragon, but still be real. He doesn't have the claim to the throne, but in the battle for the dawn he will be needed.
I also like the idea that Varys is a Blackfyre, the brother of Serra. King's blood needed for spells, shaving his head like Egg, knowing all the passages of the Red Keep which Maegor said only the blood of the dragon would know, etc.
I think the shaved head comes from the Mummers days because they shaved heads to make the wigs fit better.which he still goes around in disguise throughout the series
you are moron and dany is a bad person the reason you dont relize that is cause you watched the show, and give it equal to or greater credence then the books before it contridcited itself. The show did an awful job showing dany as a crazy person but the books are very good with if your reading comprehension is at least highschool level
dany will burn KL after seein aegon’s success. the bells are irrelevant. she is the one with the nukes in her possession. read the meereeneese blot essays which grrm himself has confirmed an accurate portrayal of dany’s characterization, embracing fire and blood
Connington is a great character. I can’t wait to see where Martin goes with the fAegon plot line. I don’t think Aegon will take the throne. I think some houses will follow him, and celebrate the ‘second coming’ of the Dragons. But I think he will act as a foil for Danny... as ppl will be less likely to join her after Westeros discovers Aegon is really a Blackfyre, especially after Connington spreads a plague of greyscale
I think even if Dany told the lords of Westeros they wouldn't even believe her. I mean who do you think they'll trust: The perfect prince that overthrew the hated Lannisters with an army of Westerosi OR The Dragon Queen that arrives in Westeros with an army of savage Dothraki and cold unfeeling Unsullied It's all about optics, and you already know Varys is gonna do a shit ton of work to defame Dany as the Mad Daughter of King Aerys.
@@tabulldog2743 exacly espacially this prince juste saved them and he will probebly be loved by the people who don't really care wich familly you are wish i think will upset danny maybe we will even see another dance of the dragons
I like how in the show they kind of forgot that Dany was planning on marrying her brother at one point. Then the characters freak out when they find out that she is Jon's aunt.
That made absolutely no sense. Rickard and Lyarra stark were second cousins. And aunt nephew marriages has happened at least twice in the stark line. And Jon of course is a product of both of them Targaryen and stark. D&D was injecting modern values
Your clear enthusiasm for SOIAF and of course the Dune books and universe is fantastic to see. Most people are just on here complaining about a game or film or tweet. Excellent work.
Really interesting point about the bells driving Dany to burn down King's Landing, and how that would make more sense for JonCon. I didn't even really put that together. It seems like Martin told D&D something about bells causing somebody to go crazy. Perhaps it was already too late for them to include JonCon, so they just decided to give this plot point to Dany for some weird reason.
I definitely think George is going to make some kind of point where Faegon can be prepared for the throne all we want but he's still human and capable of failure, anger, or selfishness
I think that is what he's doing... Varys is trying to manufacture a another Aegon the 5th "Aeg" Targaryen but you can't manufacture kindness and thats something I'm really look forward to seeing
He is summer king. Educated, well-trained, talented still, he is of summer. He was not raised in luxury like Joff or Tommen, but he also did not struggle like Jon or Dany. He would be a good king, but the winter is here, so he will die. No man of summer will survive the Winds of Winter.
@@harryhorrocks6030 Jon struggled on the Wall - he fought the Wildlings and faced the Dead. Dany was also raised in a safe environment (Pentos mansion), but evolved to birth three dragons and conquer mighty cities. In comparison, Aegon had a boat trip.
@@harryhorrocks6030 He is on the overwhelmingly winning side, while Jon and Dany were essentially me and my buddies vs the world. Just swinging his sword around isn't enough, in fact, in this case, it is foolish - since their entire war is based around him; if he dies, it is done. It is not brave, just bravado. It doesn't even get close to any of the other pretenders (except for Renly, I suppose).
@@artvrrvtra5235 overwhelming I don't think so the golden company's big but it isn't that big. Tyrion has already told Aegon how torn the 7 kingdoms are he may as well go for it now. Jon and dany are not helpless as you're making out.
I’m sure Dany is also tired of marriage and proposals. However I think if anyone can temp her to marry it is fAegon. In all of her chapters she thinks of Targaryen traditions. She thinks how she always thought she would marry Visarys instead of Drogo. She wonders to herself about if she had been born older Rhaegar would have never had to marry Elia and if he had her for a wife maybe he wouldn’t have strayed to Lyanna. Even in Storm of Swords she thinks she needs two more heads of the Dragon for Viserion and Rhaegal. She considers Jorah and Darrio. But if another Valyrian descendent is on the table I think she will heavily consider saying yes. If he’s a black dragon or a red I don’t think will matter so much to her.
Aegon has a lot in common with Robert when you think about it. Cersei is Mad King Aerys 2.0 and is poised to blow up the sept just as Aerys wanted to blow up KL, so Aegon showing up to cheering crowds to save them from the mad ruler, only to turn out to be fool's gold (just as Robert's 'golden reign' was actually a cover for corruption, greed, and promiscuity) makes a ton of sense. And just as Robert being a distant Targ relative was merely a veneer for justifying putting him on the throne when people didn't like the 'legitimate' ruler, I think that even if it were widely known that Aegon was a Blackfyre, that wouldn't matter to people if he gave them what they wanted, which is to get out from under Cersei's cruelty. I can see the commonfolk saying the "black nor red, a dragon is still a dragon" line, especially if they see Dany as dangerous---and she's a woman, which means Westerosi society would balk at her taking the throne even if it didn't have a dude they could claim had a better claim to the throne.
I like your reasoning I also think fAegon would be a lot more acceptable to The Sparrows than Dany, given her association with The Red God. A lot of people seem to forget that The Sparrows are now the major power in The Crownlands.
Considering that Aegon is in some ways similar to Robert, I can imagine Jon and Aegon meeting and becoming besties (they can even have a relationship like the one that Robert and Ned or Daemon Blackfyre and BloodRaven had (if Daemon was the brother that BR loved) and if fAegon discovers that Jon is his Targaryen cousin, he would be happy since he would have someone else with the same blood that he can trust as the brother he never had and Jon doesn't threat fAegon's claim because Aerys took the claim of Rhaegar and his children to the throne the moment Rhaegar died) and leading a 6th Blackfyre Rebellion + 2nd Hour of the Wolf!
I never understand why people think thr great sept will be burn. In book it is specificly have been told that wild fire under the sept have been removed after it discovered by someone. So rest of the ctiy will be burn not sept. Which is worst becose people will think that that is becouse of god will ot something like that which make seven even more poverfull in kings landing. So Aegon will face even more dangeres faith.
@@PedroLucas-mg5je that's way too optimistic of an outlook really. Even if Faegon takes to Jon, you think the people around him would allow someone else with a technically, much better claim to persist? So long as the real son of Rhaegar, a boy, and a Targaryen (assuming Faegon's a Balckfyre) lives there will always be a threat to Faegon's claim irregardless of whether Aerys named another heir.
You know, it's very hard to take any new supposition regarding this book series seriously. Three books released in the 90s, one in the 00s and one in the 10s and it's now the 20s... If this book series was the eldest Stark child, it would have been murdered at its own wedding a decade ago.
I feel like there would be some sort of marketing campaign right now if it was done. If he hasn’t even finished the first draft he’d still have to redraft so I doubt it’s coming
He had no idea what the hell he was doing. If he figured it out, book will be finished. If not, more time want matter. You could see in Dance how the story spiraled
Oh, Tyrion didnt lie to Aegon... the moment Dany gets wind that another is trying to rob her of her birthright she is definately coming to him... that dragon Tyrion used to win the game of cyvasse proves it, it brings fire and blood.
@@davidryan7386 nah, remember what Teora said at the feast at Ghosthill: "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died." Both "dragons" have to be alive to "dance". The second Dance of the Dragons is coming!
This still doesn’t mean that (F)Aegon doesn’t earn the Iron Throne. One thing I feel that people forget is that the Targaryen lost their right when Robert Baratheon won his rebellion. Dany and (F)Aegon have just about the same right to the throne as a commoner, the only way they can have the throne is by conquest. (F)Aegon is going have the throne and probably going to try stabilize the kingdom only for Dany come in like a wrecking ball. This would end (F) Aegon and make him a martyr and make Dany look like a Villain or Mad. Point of the matter is that anyone at this point lost their right to rule, and probably make the small folk hate any “King” when all they bring is War.
tbh I feel like the targaryen name still has credits cuz they created the throne so I feel like dany’s claim is stronger than faegon ofc cuz after losing the throne she would still technically be a lady of dragonstone like aegon and his sisters before conquest. On the other hand faegon had no claim whatsoever. So I feel like calling her a commoner is pretty incorrect.
Aenarion Targeryen - I think you are radically overstating your position on the law and custom of royal succession. Targaryen claimants are not mere commoners. Of course the Baratheon claimants and their successors would claim that the Targaryen right has been terminated, but the Targs have a strong claim to be the true kings in exile. The lawyers/Maesters will argue both sides, but many many people in Westeros, noble and common, will accept a Targaryen claim as legitimate. I think they will come over to support a Targaryen claimant far more readily on this basis than they would a total outsider. And even Blackfyres have a somewhat legitimate claim to the throne, being descended from Targaryen kings and a cadet branch of House Targaryen, though it is a weaker claim. And different Targaryen claimants have different strengths of claim. At the end of the day it will be a matter of whoever can hold the throne will sit the throne, but the strength of claim of the respective contestants will be one of the factors in determining who is able to hold the throne.
I like the Blackfyre theory but it really annoys me how it’s consistently framed as “He’s fake, so it’s morally okay if Dany massacres him completely unprovoked.” His entire life is a lie. Surely that makes him as much a victim of the deception as anyone. Honestly I’d look more kindly on Dany killing “Truegon” because then at least it’s an honest political rivalry and not just Varys’ patsy getting killed for having the wrong blood.
i think both the tryells ( reach) and the martells (dorne) will suport (f)aegon , but at the end of twow when all his forces arrive at king landing to take the capital cersei will blow up the city with wildfire killing a lot of people included some of (f)aegon forces , leaving only ashes for him to rule.
I think your wildfire theory might be right. This makes sense. I also think fAegon is doomed bc of Connington’s greyscale. He will either catch it, or there will be a greyscale plague that will end with fAegon’s fall
Josh Morris yes sounds close to me. I read about a severe case of grey scale that can become the grey plague which is like the bubonic plague. Maybe if someone with greyscale is burned the smoke released spreads the grey plague. What a conflict that would be. White walkers, wights and the plague!!
The idea that Drogon or any Dragon would see that fAegon is not a true Targaryen is a bit stupid. Blackfyres are just as much Valyrian as the Targaryens, after all they are a bastard house. Daemon was the son of two Targaryens who simply weren't wed, thus a Bastard. Did they afterwards have non-Valyrian spouses? Sure, but so did the Targaryens. It's always about the blood of the dragon and there is no logical reason to assume that Blackfyres don't have it. This would make a tiny bit more sense if he was a Bittersteel descendent, but come on that won't happen.
He'll take the throne easy. But seeing that JonCon is bringing stone death with him, he's gonna contaminate KL, which might make Dany burn it down just like in the show. Cersei will be killed by the people for killing the pastor which we also saw on the show. Although it will most likely be Varys who does it and sets Cersei up.
I never expected this plot line when I was reading the books. I thought we were pretty much in the end game, but with the introduction of Aegon, now I wonder how George will finish the story in just two books. I don't mind if he wants to extend it to one more book. Because there is Euron as well, who will obviously be the final villain.
@@f.n8581 think there’s a quote I read somewhere that makes a bit of sense here. “In a game of kings only a god may rule”, and Euron kinda seems to want to become some god like figure with his plans and portrayal
@@StoneColdMan2294 i think euron will warg into a kraken at the battle of blood and the ironborn will rule over southern westeros once faegon and dany run it into the ground with greyscale and dragonfire.
Faegon is in the show it’s Danny’s failed storyline where she is told by Tyrion to use her armies and not dragons. This was Tyrions advice in the books to aegon and even he doesn’t believe it that aegon followed that stupid advice. 😂😂😂
So back when I first read the books, I had considered that the cloth dragon on a pole was foretelling Dany's arrival or something (it's been a long time since the 90s, haha). When she reveals that a mummers dragon is a thing to give the hero something to fight, I considered that maybe the warning is that Dany is being set up as an enemy to give a different person a heroic victory. It would be like Robert predicted, so many Dothraki Screamers running wild in the riverlands, giving someone else a grand enemy to fight... All the while, she is a false enemy, because winter brings the true enemy!!
Tyrion is usually the smartest person in the room. His mind is his greatest gift and he reads people so well. That game was some seriously hard foreshadowing why else would George give us this super important conversation between fAgeon and Tyrion if it wasn't. I'm so thrilled with this series you're doing with LML.
Tyrion THINKS he is usually the smartest person in the room. He's made some clever moves, but he's also made some absolutely boneheaded moves as well. His response to his father's abuse was to overinflate his ego. How he didn't see what was coming with Shae never ceases to amaze me. Expecting Tywin to give him anything never ceases to amaze me. Assuming the series is continued, I think we're in for a much darker Tyrion than his fans are hoping for.
Y'all, he can still be the most intelligent person in the room and still be dumb when it comes to the people he cares for/is invested in the most. Some people are so good at reading others that they are held in super high regards, but they can't do anything to help themselves or the people close to them.
I always pictured the end of ice and fire to be similar to the irl year of 1066. The reining king prepares for a conquest from the south, but cold northern winds bring down the northern forces and the reining king fights in the north. And when they are defeated, the southern invasion begins. A battle of Hastings happens, and a new king would be crowned.
I like the parallel between Tyrion and Quaithe in relation to fAegon and Dany, respectively. Both of their advice is "Don't trust anyone." If that is someone's advice to you, you have to know that they don't have your best interests at heart.
I love what you guys are doing. I cant wait to get the true story in my hands. I think F'Aegon is gonna be a awesome character and the show runners suck for not including it. In fact they suck for excluding a lot of stories but I digress
I am actually worried that the Tyrion Cyvas game foreshadows something even more brutal. That dany won’t get there in time for some great tragedy. I see it as foreshadowing that she is going to screw around in the east too long.
Sheila Hilton there was BUT he was so uninterested in ruling the kindom, morally corrupted individuals gained power and influence during his rein. So the ”golden years” are nothing but calm before the storm. Papertiger in terms of wellness in the realm
Sheila , he also bankrupted the realm and couldn't be asked in terms of ruling / governance let alone doing so well. Robert B is the classic the hunt was better than the kill / catch for him , he seemed to be like that with his promiscuity as well. Just not a great king at all , relatively peaceful during the time but the realm stagnated at best , coffers were not looked after at all and he did not seem interested in actual ruling or the affairs of the continent in general.
The financial crisis was caused by Littlefinger. It is nearly impossible that Robert would spend enough gold, especially since Littlefinger apparently is getting 10 times the amount of gold his predecessors brought in
Mummer's dragon could refer to Aegon being a dragon, but also apart of Vary's conspiracy. Not necessarily, that he is a false dragon. With that said, building off of what Varys tells Tyrion about how people percieve power. That it all depends where they believe the power resides, "A small man can cast a large shadow". It is consistant with Varys, to use a fake. It's going to be interesting, either way i feel it's not going to end well for Dany or Aegon.
Jon Snow is more likely to be the mummer's dragon. He's a dragon in wolf's skin, and is likely to be the one who kills her. That could be why Quaithe warns her about the mummer's dragon.
@@Aewon84 why do assume Quaithe means well??. And I highly doubt that its Jon because their plots have no interconnection.. all those people that Quaithe mentioned have interacted with Dany and Aegon plans to meet Dany. Jon and Dany are NOT a thing. Dont connect the two
It could go either way. "Mummer's Dragon" could refer to a true dragon that has its strings being pulled by a mummer, or a false dragon that is part of a mummer's show. Both could apply to Faegon equally, so we'll just have to wait for the books and find out which is the truth lol
Personally, I think it's both, how many times does GRRM reinforce the grey area in everything? It works as a face value assessment which hides the deeper truth of Faegon being a Blackfyre conveniently in it's shadow. It's a clue and a red herring in one so George.
I think Aegons story will have a more positive outcome than most. He is a Blackfyre but doesn't know. It will be revealed. But somehow that will end up keeping him alive, perhaps even house Blackfyre restored. I can also see him killing the plotters Varys and Illyrio himself. The "didn't see it coming" noment for them.
Even if he’s a Blackfyre, he still has blood of the Dragon. Also, it would be kinda interesting that the Three Heads of the Dragons, (Jon, Dany, and Aegon) were all not necessarily “traditional” Ruling Targaryens. (Aegon being a son of a cadet branch, Dany being a women twice married, and Jon potentially being a hidden love child)
I’ve been super ready for Winds since I finished reading the books for the first time a year or two back. But both your videos, which are great, have me super hyped
Mummer's dragon is duplicitous though. It could mean "Dragon of the Mummer" i.e. Illyrio's actual son. It could be "possession", the "dragon 'owned'/'related' to the mummers". I personally think he's true, and the reference is just reference to Varys and Illyrio, they are the mummers. He is the mummer's dragon; they own him, i dont believe he's Illyrio's son whatsoever in a trueborn sense.
The mummer's dragon could also be Jon Snow. He's a dragon pretending to be a wolf's bastard. Quaithe: Beware the mummer's dragon. Jon Snow stabs Dany. Coincidence?
I have a feeling that Stannis will meet his end at the hands of F Aegon. Because they are going to take Storms End and I feel that he will ambush him. Seems poetic for the last male targaryen to kill the last male Baratheons.
Also remember what Laswell Peake said, "Even after a century, some of us still have friends in the Reach. The power of Highgarden may not be what Mace Tyrell imagines." Both Nymeria and Tyene are heading to KL, Nymeria to the Small Council and Tyene to the High Sparrow. Jon Connington may unleash a grey plague on Westeros but I think that Cersei will use Aerys's wildfire to destroy KL. Alt Shift X made a great video about it.
Faegon will probably be a demonstration of how you can’t conquer Westeros without Dragons. Reality is the Targaryen without their dragons are no different to any other lords. What separates them and parts them from others to rule is their dragons, without dragons no leverage to always stand apart, it be interesting though
I haven't seen this anywhere... the show often combined characters. We are told in the show that Jon is really called Aegon. Could it be that they gave show Jon some of the fAegon storyline?
@@DavidLightbringer his romantic and political relationship with Dany, maybe. Though Dany likely took some Aegon aspects as well. And perhaps some other characters too. Would be interesting to see the difference if Aegon becomes the first to interact with Dany or Jon (I believe he won't come back or not at the side of the living at least. But that's just me).
I have a theory, at the end of TWOW fAegon takes the Iron Throne but in the process there'll be a Greyscale outbreak in King's Landing which leaves Dany and Tyrion no other choice but to burn down King's Landing with all of its populace to prevent the disease to spread around entire Westeros
@@alanpennie8013 That was my first thought after reading Jon Con's POV chapters, that he'll accidently infect other people with Greyscale. Oh, and by the way, I see the North being neutral during the Second Dance of Dragons which I belive will happen in the books.
And Dany will redeem herself in the kingdom sacrificing everything she has (I think her dragons will live, only Rhaegal will die since Viserion seems to be hatching and Drogon is way too important) to help against the Long Night, so she's not mad or a tyrant anymore for Westeros, but a hero, Azor Ahai.
i think i already commented that on one of the dune videos but your channel is just magical man, thanks also for the LML recommendation, not disappointed
The mummers dragon profecy will probably make Dany believe that FAegon is a fraud, but it may take a while, as in addition to the idea of having a family, she may find a conflicting profecy, because if she learns about FAegon about the same time she finds out about Jon, then it may resonate in her mind the "The dragon must have three heads" profecy, as a parallel to Aegon the conquerer and his two sisters
This has been a real fun listen. Great banter, guys! I think Tyrion has been getting darker the last few books. While his advice to F'Aegon isn't entirely bad, I do feel, intentional or not, he's going to be spreading discord to whomever he ends up advising.
The idea of Aegon being the perfect king and how easy it seems it would be for him to take power makes me suspicious. Add in Cerci's prophecy (Aegon isn't a queen) and how "cheated" the audience would feel for Aegon to get Danny's moment, and I'm starting to wonder if Cerci won't go down so easy. My guess? Maybe he does take King's Landing, and as he's parading down the streets thinking he's won, Cerci flees to safely. Then, either Cerci or Connington lights the wildfire. Argon's forces go up in flames and the Lanisters are back on top.
Tyrion *expertly* manipulates Young Griff when he offers him up the heroic steps needed to get Dany to come fly to him "as fast as wind and water can carry her". Love it. For all intents and purposes, it's a legit plan for most, however it turns out. P.S. Recently rewatched Order of the Greenhand's R+L=A/Fay series, and I very much think they're onto something, and something good at that. This "perfect prince" of ours mouth-wateringly melts *right* into "The Prince that was Promised". Just ma feelz.
I've always seen that speech to Kevin at the end of the prologue to be a speech directed at someone else, trying to hype up the idea of fAegon. Someone that is most likely watching via a glass candle, which would explain the open window letting the moonlight in, despite it being very cold. (I think the candles use the moon as some sort of satellite, to work) I'm not sure who that someone is, it may even be multiple people. But it would make sense if it was for the benefit of Doran Martell, who is currently contemplating an alliance with the person Varys is boasting about. (Truthfully or not)
I thought he was talking to the raven that was in the window. Meaning Bloodraven. We know he's used ravens to watch things outside his cave, so why not this one? Something Varys should know he does, btw. Which I think is further evidence that Aegon is a Blackfyre because Bloodraven actively and aggressively opposed them in each rebellion.
@@ashleyofnaath Great point! But I think it's more likely to be maester Walgrave, considering it's a white raven, but bloodRaven, or someone else, could be in one of the other Ravens that would be in Pycelle's quarters. Side note, I think the three-eyed crow that shows up in Bran's dreams is not Bloodraven but someone else, possibly Walgrave. I think Bloodraven appears as the weirwood tree, not a crow. which would also explain why Bloodraaven was so confused when Bran asks him if he's the three-eyed Crow, and he says "...maybe once, but that was a long time ago"(paraphrasing) but I digress
@@jsull81 Totally agree. The crow in Bran's dreams isn't BR. Bran has a dream with both the crow and the weirwood in it at the same time. Why would BR appear within the same dream as two different entities? Not to mention the crow was a more recent fixture in the dreams, and Bloodraven claims to have been appearing to Bran all of his life. It doesn't add up. I also consider that him appearing with a weirwood face to Melisandre in the flames as another indication that he's the tree, not the crow.
Apart from the reasons I stated above, I lean towards the white raven being BR because it's intimated in an earlier book that Bloodraven is watching the events in the Red Keep. Sansa prays to the weirwood to send her a champion, a true knight to save her, etc etc. She thinks its Dontos, but shortly after, she literally runs into The Hound as he's walking out of a room. He escorts her back to Maegor's Holdfast, getting her safely past Boros Blount who was on guard that night. Call me crazy, but I read that as Bloodraven sending Sansa the Hound as her savior in that moment. If that's true, BR has an established presence in the castle. So he could skin change a raven to witness events outside the godswood.
@@ashleyofnaath Exactly, there's definitely something fishy going on with the three-eyed Crow, and he's been visiting other people too, like Euron and possibly littlefinger. And bloodraven could be the white crow, either way, he's definitely been keeping tabs on what's been going on seemingly everywhere
Does anyone else think Varys is a Blackfire? Sara was his sister. This is why the sorcerer snipped him for his “kings blood” and thus eliminated him from the male line of Targeryan heirs. If Varys can’t be king, then his nephew will.
Aegon is never going to use the black dragon banner, so what would be the point? That would require him to admit to being a Blackfyre, which is about as likely as getting Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey Velaryon to admit that they're bastards. There won't be a sixth Blackfyre Rebellion. Also, if he's a Blackfyre on his mother's side he's not a Blackfyre.
This at least the fifth time I have watch/heard this video. I'm using all the "winds of winter" videos as my lullabys. Both of you are amazing, but nonetheless you need to keep it up. LML, please give a shout out. Quinn, keep making Dune videos. Again, love from URUGUAY
About Faegon's claim being greater than Dany's (if he really is a Targaryen) didn't Aerys remove Rhaegar as his heir and make Viserys his heir? Then Viserys made Dany his own heir. So I wonder which one would really have the strongest claim?
The worst thing to do in George’s world is to act decisively during a complete clustefuck of a situation and have no reliable witnesses/evidence because due process has no power here
I’ve always believed oberyn martell gave aegon to Varys since we don’t know what he is doing in that time, I also find it interesting no one thinks you can glamour a baby, since performing a glamour is a thing
@@saminhuq8469 respectfully, what you're saying is that you assume what he had assumed. It is likely that whatever takes the least amount of assumptions is closer to the truth, or at least to what can be proven as truth.
That’s one huge hole in the Faegon theory. Even if Illiyrio didn’t realize the eggs would hatch why wouldn’t he still give such a valuable possession to his son’s group?
@@210SAi Dany’s marriage to Drogo would have won Viserys a large and strong army, maybe Illyrio was trying to secure favour with the other Targ group with the eggs? What better to tempt Viserys with?
I've recently started keeping with the mummers dragon being Dany. She's constantly been in this personal battle of becoming her own dragon or not, and Quaithes was warning her of herself. Plus the pairings they're in don't make any sense of Aegon, and for the most part the people Quaithe warns her about have no ill intent for Dany, including herself.
The only problem I see with that is why would you present a primary character throughout all the books....Have her accumulate so much power only to end with her being a fraud?
@@210SAi It's not about being a fraud, she's still a Targaryen, but she hasn't had the fierceness to gain the leadership role of a continent full of game players in mereen or westeros. If she becomes a bit more forceful she should be able to hold power. Ie becoming a true dragon from a false dragon.
Loving this series, and Quinn, the blue-green lighting behind you is lovely, especially with the visualizations on the monitors. Very nice. It fits you, like the delightful busy-ness behind LmL fits him.
I feel like I am the only one that is fully on team faegon. After Robb's death, Stannis and faegon seem like the 2 most capable people Westeros would accept as rulers.
The only problem I see in believing Aegon to be the true King of Westeros is how late along in the story he shows up. It would be like he became the new Dany (outsider coming to rule the Kingdom) yet no mention of him existing until over halfway into the story????
Personally I’m a fAegon believer but there is one little thing that makes me slightly skeptical. When Varys kills Pycelle and Kevan he tells Kevan that fAegon is Rhaegar’s son. If Varys knows the reality of fAegon being a Blackfyre why not reveal it to Kevan before his death? I find it odd that he would lie about that aspect of his plan considering he seems pretty truthful about everything else reveals in that last chapter. If anyone has an explanation I’d love to hear it
I thought about that too. For me, Varys did not reveal the truth to Kevan in case they were being watch through glass candles (pretty sure Varys would know about that). But it sure would be interesting to hear other theories about it
Ecila that seems to make the most sense out of any theory I’ve seen. Still not totally convinced though. Has Varys ever been shown to know or care about glass candles? From what I remember the only people who seem to have a connection to them so far are Quaithe, Daenerys, Marwyn and ,by association, Sam and the other Oldtown acolytes. I guess that includes Jaqen/Pate as well?
@@liambitt6063 you are right ! We cannot know for sure if Varys is aware of such thing, but maybe he learned about it through his network of spies ? Since he hates magic so much, I can easily see him thinking that the people using glass candles would have bad intentions so he may not want them to know about the truth.. Or maybe the solution is waaay simpler : Aegon being the real one as you suggested first, or he was simply being careful in case of being watched (physically) since he knows that everything in KL can be seen or heard
The more i listen the more i suspect that George can't squeeze it all in only two books, too much material. And it makes prospects of finishing saga even more dubious.
See, in the books, it was Tyrion who guessed that Young Griff was Prince. Further, Prince Aegon is already in Westeros. Once Prince Aegon defeats Cersei and is hailed a hero by the small folks in Kings Landing, are you seriously suggesting that Daenerys’s will fly in on her dragons and call hero Prince Aegon a mummers dragon. Can’t see it myself.
you have to understand that coming back after months (and well after this abbreviation started being used) was so damn confusing, I was definitely getting who it was soon enough and I mean realized it wasn’t and actual name more or less immediately, but the first half second thought was definitely “no, you can’t tell me I missed a whole ass Targaryen... with the stupidest name of them all”
wait, so if Aegon were to be blackfyre and Illyrio's son. When do you believe that the scheming begin?? It seems odd that, Illyrio would one day see his son and think. "well it turns out he does look like a targaryen, I could have him challenge for the throne". Would all of this be a coincidence and decided upon his birth?
I'm almost certain it was all decided upon his birth. (F)Aegon's whole existence and preparations have been planned in advance, he has been trained his whole life for that specific moment.
Most people know how ASOIAF is based upon The Wars of the Roses between the Yorks (Starks) and Lancasters (Lannister). After Henry VII takes the throne, theres was a claim in continental Europe from a man who called himself Perkin Warbeck and his supporters defended he really was one of the Princes in the Tower; Richard Duke of York who allegedly got killed by orders of his evil uncle Richard III . He was defeated and executed but was probably a fake. Also, Elizabeth of York (his supposed elder sister) was queen consort at the time with Henry VII. PD: I read Dance a while ago and wondered why George was bringing this new Targeryan so late in the game and what was the point of Quentyns POV if he gets killed in the end, but those Blackfyre, Dorne and bell ideas make a lot of sense
Considering the whole thing about Daeron II and his successors coming from Aemon the Dragonknight while Daemon Blackfyre was the son of a King (Aegon, the Unworthy, eldest son of Viserys II) & Queen (Daena, the Defiant, wife of Baelor, the Blessed and eldest daughter of Aegon, the Dragonsbane)!
So if Varys is actually for the realm and he actually has some big play in this whole fAegon deal, and yet still the people will suffer immensely because his plan falls apart or from his interfering, that would be a crime punishable by death if Tyrion tells Daenerys, because he’s pretty much already figured it out. And that would get him in her good graces quick enough to potentially become the hand. And she could very well execute Varys based on Tyrion’s selling him out.
Varys mentions Aegon lived with fisher folk, he knows what it means to be hungry, to be hunted and to be afraid. I just don't think that'd be the case if he was Illyrio's son. So I guess it comes down to if you believe Varys or not.
fAegon has a personal knight, Septa and master, he's literally been on a camping trip. He's clearly being taken care of and not 'suffering'. Varys and Co are doing all the planning and strategising , clearing his way. Meanwhile they've clearly puffed up his ego with praise...he may have gone hungry while 'camping' but was he ever completely on his own without the security of knowing Jon Con and the rest are with him? Dany on the other hand hasn't always had that sort of security, her own brother was abusive. They were turned away countless times and they didn't have a whole team to tend to their 'education and training'. He may be a good kid, but he's also coming across as just that. He's impressionable and even entitled. We've seen plenty of impressive young protagonists in the story to be impressed with what been shown so far. He may turn out to be like Rhaegar, alot of fluffy praise for someone who never accomplished much on their own. E.g. The plan to take Storm's end is Jon Con's but because of Tyrion mocking him he may have realised that he needs to take the lead, he will undoubtedly receive alot of praise too. But if he continues the same way he will believe his own hype and not self reflect. His attitude toward Jon Con already was really off, it didn't seem like he sees Jon Con as a mentor and companion. GRRM is comparing him to Egg. But Egg was genuinely nice and he'd never treat Dunk the way he seemingly treats Jon Con. The problem Dany will have with him is probably his entitlement toward her and her dragons. Plus of course the prophecy about the mummer's dragon. She might struggle a bit, but his personality is going to decide it for her and like they mentioned Drogon and his reaction to fAegon.
I think what ya'll said towards the end makes a lot of sense, for Dany to make a showing of "accepting" faegon publicly by introducing him to the dragons, basically as genetic test, and then him getting eaten and people believing he is not a Targaryen because of that, since just her claim to his deceit wouldve never been enough. Dany has done something that has a similar energy during the sack of astapor, and by then she'd also have tyrion as an advisor and he would appreciate a plan like that
What if she tried it and it didn’t work though? Blackfyres are descendants of the Targaryens too. In theory, it being a bastard line shouldn’t matter. That might be an interesting twist too.
As ASOIAF is inspired by the Wars of the Roses, I strongly believe that Aegon is fAegon, as his story is probably inspired by Lambert Simnel, a pretender to the English throne. A priest noticed the resemblance that Lambert had to one of the princes of the tower and he was raised to be the perfect king, in exile and they tried to pass him as king Edward VI, but the plot ultimately failed.
I agree... if only bc of the greyscale. Connington, in his effort to help, will end up unleashing a plague on Westeros, dooming Aegon one way or another (he will either catch it himself-I find this very likely-or he will be blamed for it).
That whole monologue about how Aegon has been shaped for rule, it's honestly true of Aegon V, if you took that quote out of context. And even Aegon V messed things up towards the end.
Volanqur means brother and accha to me it refers to jaime Lannister who will end up breaking another oath this time queenslaying and probably he will also die that very time. So they both came in the world together and they will die together
I'm currently re-reading the books I've only got so far with the first half of book 3 a few years back, but this year I'm planning on reading all of them, I have really enjoyed you guys so keep up the good work
People need to remember that whether or not Aegon is legitimate has nothing to do with whether or not he will succeed the throne. GRRM has said many times that he doesn't like the fantasy trope of the one true king who claims his birth right. I'd love it if false Aegon establishes himself despite just being some Free Cities bastard while Jon with the actual "Secret heir to the throne" lineage just melts away into a peaceful obscurity.
There is a theory that Varys himself is a Blackfyre. After all we know their is power in the blood of kings and why else would he be used for magic. We know from the Duncan and Egg stories that Egg shaved his head to hide his silver hair. Is Varys the mummers dragon and not Aegon?
Ah, the books. Where Varys actually has a plan. One worked out over years.
In bright daylight? Damn
Activated Complex Meanwhile, Show Varys seemingly changes sides all the time (Aerys to Robert, Robert to Viserys, Viserys to Joffrey, Joffrey to Tommen, Tommen to Daenerys, Daenerys to Jon)
Diego Rodriguez In fairness to show Varys, though he still sucks compared to the books , five of those six shifts in allegiance were due to the death of the monarch in question. But yeah, that’s the problem with show Varys, he’s only ever reacting to events. As if his goal is mere survival. And even then, he breaks character (like everyone else) in the Lost Season.
Yes in the books Varys has been planning for yearss....still he forgot to tell “Queen” Daenerys .who distracted everyone with numerous wars and swayed on poles as she was carried through the street, cheered on by many crowds. And now “Queen” Daenerys, aka the mummers dragon is married to King Hizdhar in Essos.
So while “Queen” Daenerys is lost in the Dothraki sea..with no control over Drogon, Aegon has already taken Griffin’s Roost and Storms end, with no fanfare what so ever.
@@rosettareyes8573 Dude, Aegon is clearly the mummer's dragon. One could even argue that Varys is the mummer (although it could also be Jon Con).
Another hint that a Blackfyre is afoot: in AFFC Brienne VII, we get the story about the Bellringer Inn that passes to a new owner, a crippled man named Long Jon Heddle, who took up iron working when he grew too old to fight. He made a new sign for the inn's yard, a three-headed dragon of black iron that he hung from a wooden post. It's revealed that the sign is no longer at the inn because a generation later, the first Blackfyre rebellion occurred. The inn was on Darry land, Lord Darry was loyal to King Daeron, and the sign, being a mirror image of Daemon's sigil, enraged Lord Darry so he cut it into pieces and threw it in the river. Many years later, one of the black dragon's heads washed up on Quiet Isle, but by that time it was red with rust. A black dragon turning up after years presenting itself as red? Not to mention, it was created by a crippled man named Jon. Foreshadowing much?
This all the way. I reread Feast and Dance last year and thought the same thing
Combined with the other hints that a Blackfyre is in the midst, like Quaithe's warning, the Undying visions, Illyrio's dialogue, Moqorro's vision of a "young, false, dark" dragon (or a false dragon, or a dark dragon depending on how you read it) the evidence that Aegon is a Blackfyre is pretty solid in my opinion. It's not all for nothing.
Ashley of Naath
GRRM does foreshadowing so well. Bc of the surplus of information in each book, it isn’t as obvious, or can be interpreted in different ways. Imo there’s no doubting that fAegon is a Blackfyre.
The only question I have is, who is the third dragon head? Dany and Jon I buy. That makes two. I know a lot of folks say Tyrion is the third... but I don’t buy it. I wonder if it’s possible that fAegon is the third dragon, even if he’s a Blackfyre. Could his and Dany’s ascension mend the Blackfyre and Targaryen houses? I doubt this, too, bc I think Connington’s greyscale will end with a plague and fAegon’s fall.
I don’t think it necessarily has to be a Targaryen-the Dance of Dragons proved almost anyone with even a hint of Targaryen blood (or perhaps none) can ride a dragon. Maybe Quentyn is actually alive-he apparently has a touch of Targaryen blood. Or maybe it’s Euron utilizing his horn. Who knows? I just can wait to read Winds
That’s the only big question that seems completely up in the air as far as possibilities go. I wish the show hadn’t abandoned some of these threads, but oh well.
@@cruddddddddddddddd I was just asking myself this exact question the other day. I was thinking two people. 1) Aurane Waters, because House Velaryon has Valerian blood. Not to mention he could have Targaryen blood in him as well. 2)Bellegere Otherys, the current Black Pearl of Braavos. She's descended from Aegon IV, so she's the blood of the dragon. Also, I see parallels between she and Nettles, who of course was a dragon seed during the first Dance of the Dragons (and if you ask me, Daemon's bastard daughter). I don't think George introduced Bellegere at this point in the story for no reason. I hope it's not Tyrion...I would hate that.
Ashley of Naath
Good stuff. I hope the third head is a (currently) minor character. I love Tyrion, but I really don’t think it’s him. Some of my favorite characters in the books are minor characters who I think end up having the more interesting storylines.
Like you, I also think there’s a lot to pull from the Reds vs the Blacks in predicting what will happen in ASOIAF. There are too many parallels, and history has a habit of repeating itself, in Westeros as well as life. I never considered Aurane Waters... but he’s already betrayed Cersei, and he does have Targaryen blood-and ships. It could be that Dany will use his ships to get back to Westeros, and there you go.
I like the Bellegere parallel with Nettles-I honestly had to look Bellegere up, but Nettles is such a cool, mysterious character. If she has ships, that could also work.
Yeah, I hope the stories go this route-or something like it.
I really don’t see how Martin can wrap it up in only 2 books... not with all the various threads, and Martin’s penchant for packing his books with so many characters and subplots. I wouldn’t mind 3 or 4 more books-this is my favorite fantasy series. I always consider my reading life as such: Before reading A Game of Thrones, and after. When I read the prologue I was hooked. Nice bit of fresh theory there.
Edit: Waters has Valyrian blood, not necessarily Targaryen, what I meant to say
I find it highly unlikely that "Aegon" is genuine: He's a Blackfyre. Why else would the Blackfyres' story be introduced in ADWD if not as foreshadowing? And Varys lacks a convincing motive for saving the real Aegon as a baby: Book Varys is not the whitewashed "I do everything for the people" character of the show: He's working for his own cause: He fosters stability when it suits his purpose and sows chaos when it suits his purpose
everything about him being a Blackfyre and Illyrio's son makes Illyrio and Varys's plotting make sense. Not sure why there is resistance to the theory.. there has been a Blackfyre rebellion in every era of ASOIAF history. Of course we will get another. Else what's the point of all that setup?
@@DavidLightbringer
I agree. But I suspect GRRM will never confirm this directly.
And with what Varys is doing, he's gotta be a Blackfyre as well, maybe even Aegon's uncle, as Illyrio's wife could have been Varys' sister.
None of that will matter because how in the world will Daenerys prove it to anyone? Her war with fAegon will be the 2nd dance and cost her everything just like it did Rahenyra.
@swave158 1. Rhaegar is her brother, not her father. At least until confirmed otherwise.
2. Rhaegar actually did have a son (Aegon) and a daughter (Rhaenys). Aegon was killed by the mountain and Rhaenys was stabbed to death by Amory Lorch. So, even if your theory about Rhaegar being Dany's dad is true (which is possible), her sister would still be dead as a doornail, until proven otherwise.
Don’t matter if F’Aegon or Tru’Gon, in the end, he’ll be just Gon.
Nooo this comment is killing me 😂🤣
lmfao love it
Bars
lmaoooo this comment wins😭😭
Probably, tbh. But I do hope does get the crown before he goes
I love the idea of JonCon going mad instead of Dany at the sound of bells, it makes perfect sense. I really hope that happens now.
I can't really see where else D&D could've taken her whole triggered by the bells thing.
Wild Card Bitches Yeehaw - They could have just made it up. They seem eminently capable of making up pointless crap stuff,
I love how that everyone with Aegon is not who they appear to be/is lying about who they are: a chainless maester, a knight who is not a knight, a septa who isn't chaste, a lord who faked his own death, even Tyrion while he's with them is only playing a part. If Aegon is the one TRUE thing about this little band of misfits, that would be...strange to me. Storytelling wise, I think it's better if they're all a bunch of fakes and pretenders---like a mummer's troop ;)
He could be fake and true, if he was born at the tower of joy.
Ba'al the Bard I mean you could argue his identity as Griff's son was false and now he revealed his true one like Jon Connington
@@lanestapp2 Hit the nail on the head, he can be a "fake" dragon, but still be real. He doesn't have the claim to the throne, but in the battle for the dawn he will be needed.
Not to mention that he would need proof of his claim. And the official record says that he is dead.
Just like the Duke of York, during Henry the VII's early reign. He was not the person mentioned, but a pawn.
I also like the idea that Varys is a Blackfyre, the brother of Serra. King's blood needed for spells, shaving his head like Egg, knowing all the passages of the Red Keep which Maegor said only the blood of the dragon would know, etc.
I think the shaved head comes from the Mummers days because they shaved heads to make the wigs fit better.which he still goes around in disguise throughout the series
David Coleman even if all you say is true so are all the examples the original poster stated are true.
Brightflame
Cercei’s chapters are going to be amazing to read in TWOW.
Yeah they are
It's just her versus FAegon. No one's coming to save her.
@Gr8sc0tt Varys’ grand scheme. All for Aegon’s sake.
And Aegon will come with Jon Connington. The person who could reasonably go crazy at the sound of King’s Landings bells.
you are moron and dany is a bad person the reason you dont relize that is cause you watched the show, and give it equal to or greater credence then the books before it contridcited itself. The show did an awful job showing dany as a crazy person but the books are very good with if your reading comprehension is at least highschool level
@@teese1630 high school level reading with elementary school insults
@@David-vq7kc psychological projection is something i learned about in elementary school
Johnny Silverhand exactly
dany will burn KL after seein aegon’s success. the bells are irrelevant. she is the one with the nukes in her possession. read the meereeneese blot essays which grrm himself has confirmed an accurate portrayal of dany’s characterization, embracing fire and blood
Connington is a great character. I can’t wait to see where Martin goes with the fAegon plot line.
I don’t think Aegon will take the throne. I think some houses will follow him, and celebrate the ‘second coming’ of the Dragons. But I think he will act as a foil for Danny... as ppl will be less likely to join her after Westeros discovers Aegon is really a Blackfyre, especially after Connington spreads a plague of greyscale
I think he might briefly hold it and then die.
But yeah you're right.
I think even if Dany told the lords of Westeros they wouldn't even believe her. I mean who do you think they'll trust: The perfect prince that overthrew the hated Lannisters with an army of Westerosi
OR
The Dragon Queen that arrives in Westeros with an army of savage Dothraki and cold unfeeling Unsullied
It's all about optics, and you already know Varys is gonna do a shit ton of work to defame Dany as the Mad Daughter of King Aerys.
@@tabulldog2743 exacly espacially this prince juste saved them and he will probebly be loved by the people who don't really care wich familly you are wish i think will upset danny maybe we will even see another dance of the dragons
@@tabulldog2743 isn't varys partly responsible for getting Dany out of kings landing as a baby during the whole Robert's rebellion thing?
I like how in the show they kind of forgot that Dany was planning on marrying her brother at one point. Then the characters freak out when they find out that she is Jon's aunt.
"Dany kind of forgot about that"
Wich is hilarious cause Aunt/nephew Uncle/nice marriages were common in the Stark line. And Westeros in general just like cousin's marriages.
That made absolutely no sense. Rickard and Lyarra stark were second cousins. And aunt nephew marriages has happened at least twice in the stark line. And Jon of course is a product of both of them Targaryen and stark. D&D was injecting modern values
Your clear enthusiasm for SOIAF and of course the Dune books and universe is fantastic to see. Most people are just on here complaining about a game or film or tweet. Excellent work.
Why did you leave off the *A*
@@wisdommanari6701 I recognise my failing and will be sure to correct it.
Really interesting point about the bells driving Dany to burn down King's Landing, and how that would make more sense for JonCon. I didn't even really put that together. It seems like Martin told D&D something about bells causing somebody to go crazy. Perhaps it was already too late for them to include JonCon, so they just decided to give this plot point to Dany for some weird reason.
It wasn’t too late. D&D just decided for whatever unexplained reason to delete that entire plot and characters from the show.
I definitely think George is going to make some kind of point where Faegon can be prepared for the throne all we want but he's still human and capable of failure, anger, or selfishness
I think that is what he's doing... Varys is trying to manufacture a another Aegon the 5th "Aeg" Targaryen but you can't manufacture kindness and thats something I'm really look forward to seeing
He is summer king.
Educated, well-trained, talented
still, he is of summer. He was not raised in luxury like Joff or Tommen, but he also did not struggle like Jon or Dany.
He would be a good king, but the winter is here, so he will die.
No man of summer will survive the Winds of Winter.
Jon didn't really have it hard growing up in winterfell.
@@harryhorrocks6030 Jon struggled on the Wall - he fought the Wildlings and faced the Dead. Dany was also raised in a safe environment (Pentos mansion), but evolved to birth three dragons and conquer mighty cities. In comparison, Aegon had a boat trip.
@@artvrrvtra5235 Aegons in the stormlands sieging castles. He isn't completely untested like you say.
@@harryhorrocks6030 He is on the overwhelmingly winning side, while Jon and Dany were essentially me and my buddies vs the world. Just swinging his sword around isn't enough, in fact, in this case, it is foolish - since their entire war is based around him; if he dies, it is done. It is not brave, just bravado. It doesn't even get close to any of the other pretenders (except for Renly, I suppose).
@@artvrrvtra5235 overwhelming I don't think so the golden company's big but it isn't that big. Tyrion has already told Aegon how torn the 7 kingdoms are he may as well go for it now. Jon and dany are not helpless as you're making out.
I’m sure Dany is also tired of marriage and proposals. However I think if anyone can temp her to marry it is fAegon. In all of her chapters she thinks of Targaryen traditions. She thinks how she always thought she would marry Visarys instead of Drogo. She wonders to herself about if she had been born older Rhaegar would have never had to marry Elia and if he had her for a wife maybe he wouldn’t have strayed to Lyanna. Even in Storm of Swords she thinks she needs two more heads of the Dragon for Viserion and Rhaegal. She considers Jorah and Darrio. But if another Valyrian descendent is on the table I think she will heavily consider saying yes. If he’s a black dragon or a red I don’t think will matter so much to her.
The little monologue was such a Bond villain moment for Varys.
Aegon has a lot in common with Robert when you think about it. Cersei is Mad King Aerys 2.0 and is poised to blow up the sept just as Aerys wanted to blow up KL, so Aegon showing up to cheering crowds to save them from the mad ruler, only to turn out to be fool's gold (just as Robert's 'golden reign' was actually a cover for corruption, greed, and promiscuity) makes a ton of sense. And just as Robert being a distant Targ relative was merely a veneer for justifying putting him on the throne when people didn't like the 'legitimate' ruler, I think that even if it were widely known that Aegon was a Blackfyre, that wouldn't matter to people if he gave them what they wanted, which is to get out from under Cersei's cruelty. I can see the commonfolk saying the "black nor red, a dragon is still a dragon" line, especially if they see Dany as dangerous---and she's a woman, which means Westerosi society would balk at her taking the throne even if it didn't have a dude they could claim had a better claim to the throne.
I like your reasoning
I also think fAegon would be a lot more acceptable to The Sparrows than Dany, given her association with The Red God.
A lot of people seem to forget that The Sparrows are now the major power in The Crownlands.
Small point, but we know that the Sept is one of the few places in KL that _isn't_ sitting on a wildfire cache. It was found and removed years ago.
Considering that Aegon is in some ways similar to Robert, I can imagine Jon and Aegon meeting and becoming besties (they can even have a relationship like the one that Robert and Ned or Daemon Blackfyre and BloodRaven had (if Daemon was the brother that BR loved) and if fAegon discovers that Jon is his Targaryen cousin, he would be happy since he would have someone else with the same blood that he can trust as the brother he never had and Jon doesn't threat fAegon's claim because Aerys took the claim of Rhaegar and his children to the throne the moment Rhaegar died) and leading a 6th Blackfyre Rebellion + 2nd Hour of the Wolf!
I never understand why people think thr great sept will be burn. In book it is specificly have been told that wild fire under the sept have been removed after it discovered by someone. So rest of the ctiy will be burn not sept. Which is worst becose people will think that that is becouse of god will ot something like that which make seven even more poverfull in kings landing. So Aegon will face even more dangeres faith.
@@PedroLucas-mg5je that's way too optimistic of an outlook really. Even if Faegon takes to Jon, you think the people around him would allow someone else with a technically, much better claim to persist? So long as the real son of Rhaegar, a boy, and a Targaryen (assuming Faegon's a Balckfyre) lives there will always be a threat to Faegon's claim irregardless of whether Aerys named another heir.
You know, it's very hard to take any new supposition regarding this book series seriously. Three books released in the 90s, one in the 00s and one in the 10s and it's now the 20s...
If this book series was the eldest Stark child, it would have been murdered at its own wedding a decade ago.
I hope TWOW is actually coming and we won't have to lock up GRRM this summer ;-)
I have high hopes. He's probably almost done.
Quite possibly the Only good thing thing that could come out of coronavirus. That George locks himself in his home and writes.
I feel like there would be some sort of marketing campaign right now if it was done. If he hasn’t even finished the first draft he’d still have to redraft so I doubt it’s coming
With the coronavirus spreading about him being locked up in his home is the best thing for his health and book!
He had no idea what the hell he was doing. If he figured it out, book will be finished. If not, more time want matter. You could see in Dance how the story spiraled
Oh, Tyrion didnt lie to Aegon... the moment Dany gets wind that another is trying to rob her of her birthright she is definately coming to him... that dragon Tyrion used to win the game of cyvasse proves it, it brings fire and blood.
he may be dead by the time she gets there. what GRRM does with tyrion and dany is gonna be amazing.
@@davidryan7386 nah, remember what Teora said at the feast at Ghosthill: "They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died." Both "dragons" have to be alive to "dance". The second Dance of the Dragons is coming!
@@tuamigajordana
But for a true Dance with the Dragons Aegon is gonna need to get a dragon
May be Jon Connington will go to the Citadel and Sam will just magically heal him! LOL
That's what happened with Jorah in the show 🤞
@@5turmundDrang I think he was being sarcastic
@@alexarias5717 lool. I had no clue !
I guess but Euron closing in on Oldtown and Sam has the Horn of Winter.
@The Law Sam didn't even do anything. It was the climate that did it. Ser Jorah woke up and just felt better.
This still doesn’t mean that (F)Aegon doesn’t earn the Iron Throne. One thing I feel that people forget is that the Targaryen lost their right when Robert Baratheon won his rebellion. Dany and (F)Aegon have just about the same right to the throne as a commoner, the only way they can have the throne is by conquest. (F)Aegon is going have the throne and probably going to try stabilize the kingdom only for Dany come in like a wrecking ball. This would end (F) Aegon and make him a martyr and make Dany look like a Villain or Mad. Point of the matter is that anyone at this point lost their right to rule, and probably make the small folk hate any “King” when all they bring is War.
tbh I feel like the targaryen name still has credits cuz they created the throne so I feel like dany’s claim is stronger than faegon ofc cuz after losing the throne she would still technically be a lady of dragonstone like aegon and his sisters before conquest. On the other hand faegon had no claim whatsoever. So I feel like calling her a commoner is pretty incorrect.
also I feel like aegon won’t be a good king cuz of his outbursts and stuff like that one time with tyrion
Aenarion Targeryen - I think you are radically overstating your position on the law and custom of royal succession. Targaryen claimants are not mere commoners. Of course the Baratheon claimants and their successors would claim that the Targaryen right has been terminated, but the Targs have a strong claim to be the true kings in exile. The lawyers/Maesters will argue both sides, but many many people in Westeros, noble and common, will accept a Targaryen claim as legitimate. I think they will come over to support a Targaryen claimant far more readily on this basis than they would a total outsider. And even Blackfyres have a somewhat legitimate claim to the throne, being descended from Targaryen kings and a cadet branch of House Targaryen, though it is a weaker claim. And different Targaryen claimants have different strengths of claim.
At the end of the day it will be a matter of whoever can hold the throne will sit the throne, but the strength of claim of the respective contestants will be one of the factors in determining who is able to hold the throne.
swave158 what?
swave158 but how is aegon her brother since dany is the daughter of aerys and rhaella? is this canon? I’m confused about that haha
Just this 20 minute discussion was the most fun I've had getting back into this world in the last 4 or 5 years give or take. Thank you for that.
I like the Blackfyre theory but it really annoys me how it’s consistently framed as “He’s fake, so it’s morally okay if Dany massacres him completely unprovoked.” His entire life is a lie. Surely that makes him as much a victim of the deception as anyone. Honestly I’d look more kindly on Dany killing “Truegon” because then at least it’s an honest political rivalry and not just Varys’ patsy getting killed for having the wrong blood.
i think both the tryells ( reach) and the martells (dorne) will suport (f)aegon , but at the end of twow when all his forces arrive at king landing to take the capital cersei will blow up the city with wildfire killing a lot of people included some of (f)aegon forces , leaving only ashes for him to rule.
Idk about the tyrells because margaery is still married to tommen while randyll tarly wants to fight Faegon
I think your wildfire theory might be right. This makes sense. I also think fAegon is doomed bc of Connington’s greyscale. He will either catch it, or there will be a greyscale plague that will end with fAegon’s fall
There's no way he could take Kings landing without both dorne and the reach supporting him.
Josh Morris yes sounds close to me. I read about a severe case of grey scale that can become the grey plague which is like the bubonic plague. Maybe if someone with greyscale is burned the smoke released spreads the grey plague. What a conflict that would be. White walkers, wights and the plague!!
@@davidjones272
Don't worry The Sparrows They're likely to rally to him, with Tyene urging them on.
The idea that Drogon or any Dragon would see that fAegon is not a true Targaryen is a bit stupid.
Blackfyres are just as much Valyrian as the Targaryens, after all they are a bastard house.
Daemon was the son of two Targaryens who simply weren't wed, thus a Bastard.
Did they afterwards have non-Valyrian spouses? Sure, but so did the Targaryens.
It's always about the blood of the dragon and there is no logical reason to assume that Blackfyres don't have it.
This would make a tiny bit more sense if he was a Bittersteel descendent, but come on that won't happen.
That's a good point actually. You're right.
Isn't it Canon that Bittersteel never had kids?
most targaryen stans like Quin dont get that though.
The shocking factor would be if he hatched a dragon of his own!
Late to the party but don’t all the dragonseeds also prove that you don’t need to be a full fledged Targ to still be a dragon rider?
He'll take the throne easy. But seeing that JonCon is bringing stone death with him, he's gonna contaminate KL, which might make Dany burn it down just like in the show. Cersei will be killed by the people for killing the pastor which we also saw on the show. Although it will most likely be Varys who does it and sets Cersei up.
🤮🤮🤮 the less GRRM follows from the show the better off he’ll be considering how crappy seasons 6-8 were.
I never expected this plot line when I was reading the books. I thought we were pretty much in the end game, but with the introduction of Aegon, now I wonder how George will finish the story in just two books. I don't mind if he wants to extend it to one more book. Because there is Euron as well, who will obviously be the final villain.
Euron will definitely not be the final villain !
@@f.n8581 think there’s a quote I read somewhere that makes a bit of sense here. “In a game of kings only a god may rule”, and Euron kinda seems to want to become some god like figure with his plans and portrayal
@@StoneColdMan2294 i think euron will warg into a kraken at the battle of blood and the ironborn will rule over southern westeros once faegon and dany run it into the ground with greyscale and dragonfire.
@@see8852 maybe an idea? Sort of like a tragedy “everything ends badly” ending
Faegon is in the show it’s Danny’s failed storyline where she is told by Tyrion to use her armies and not dragons. This was Tyrions advice in the books to aegon and even he doesn’t believe it that aegon followed that stupid advice. 😂😂😂
So back when I first read the books, I had considered that the cloth dragon on a pole was foretelling Dany's arrival or something (it's been a long time since the 90s, haha). When she reveals that a mummers dragon is a thing to give the hero something to fight, I considered that maybe the warning is that Dany is being set up as an enemy to give a different person a heroic victory. It would be like Robert predicted, so many Dothraki Screamers running wild in the riverlands, giving someone else a grand enemy to fight... All the while, she is a false enemy, because winter brings the true enemy!!
Tyrion is usually the smartest person in the room. His mind is his greatest gift and he reads people so well. That game was some seriously hard foreshadowing why else would George give us this super important conversation between fAgeon and Tyrion if it wasn't. I'm so thrilled with this series you're doing with LML.
Tyrion does not know and cannot read himself, though.
Tyrion THINKS he is usually the smartest person in the room. He's made some clever moves, but he's also made some absolutely boneheaded moves as well. His response to his father's abuse was to overinflate his ego. How he didn't see what was coming with Shae never ceases to amaze me. Expecting Tywin to give him anything never ceases to amaze me. Assuming the series is continued, I think we're in for a much darker Tyrion than his fans are hoping for.
Y'all, he can still be the most intelligent person in the room and still be dumb when it comes to the people he cares for/is invested in the most. Some people are so good at reading others that they are held in super high regards, but they can't do anything to help themselves or the people close to them.
I always pictured the end of ice and fire to be similar to the irl year of 1066. The reining king prepares for a conquest from the south, but cold northern winds bring down the northern forces and the reining king fights in the north. And when they are defeated, the southern invasion begins. A battle of Hastings happens, and a new king would be crowned.
I like the parallel between Tyrion and Quaithe in relation to fAegon and Dany, respectively. Both of their advice is "Don't trust anyone." If that is someone's advice to you, you have to know that they don't have your best interests at heart.
I love what you guys are doing. I cant wait to get the true story in my hands. I think F'Aegon is gonna be a awesome character and the show runners suck for not including it. In fact they suck for excluding a lot of stories but I digress
Personally love the greehand's baby swap theory where aegon is rhaegar and lyanna's son sent east by Ned with Jon's mother and crew
I am actually worried that the Tyrion Cyvas game foreshadows something even more brutal. That dany won’t get there in time for some great tragedy. I see it as foreshadowing that she is going to screw around in the east too long.
Luminousreign yes it’s like fAegon will be expecting her to come but she will be too far away (keep your dragons close)
Quinn take that back, Robert’s reign was considered “golden”. The “S” hit the fan AFTER he died. There was peace in the realm after the Pike rebellion
Sheila Hilton there was BUT he was so uninterested in ruling the kindom, morally corrupted individuals gained power and influence during his rein. So the ”golden years” are nothing but calm before the storm. Papertiger in terms of wellness in the realm
Sheila , he also bankrupted the realm and couldn't be asked in terms of ruling / governance let alone doing so well. Robert B is the classic the hunt was better than the kill / catch for him , he seemed to be like that with his promiscuity as well. Just not a great king at all , relatively peaceful during the time but the realm stagnated at best , coffers were not looked after at all and he did not seem interested in actual ruling or the affairs of the continent in general.
The financial crisis was caused by Littlefinger. It is nearly impossible that Robert would spend enough gold, especially since Littlefinger apparently is getting 10 times the amount of gold his predecessors brought in
I think the small folk would disagree. At least the ones in King's Landing.
@@seankumar2154
Oh indeed.
Still it was Robert (at least officially) who made Littlefinger master of coin, so he is still to blame.
Mummer's dragon could refer to Aegon being a dragon, but also apart of Vary's conspiracy. Not necessarily, that he is a false dragon.
With that said, building off of what Varys tells Tyrion about how people percieve power. That it all depends where they believe the power resides, "A small man can cast a large shadow". It is consistant with Varys, to use a fake.
It's going to be interesting, either way i feel it's not going to end well for Dany or Aegon.
Jon Snow is more likely to be the mummer's dragon. He's a dragon in wolf's skin, and is likely to be the one who kills her. That could be why Quaithe warns her about the mummer's dragon.
@@Aewon84 why do assume Quaithe means well??. And I highly doubt that its Jon because their plots have no interconnection.. all those people that Quaithe mentioned have interacted with Dany and Aegon plans to meet Dany. Jon and Dany are NOT a thing. Dont connect the two
It could go either way. "Mummer's Dragon" could refer to a true dragon that has its strings being pulled by a mummer, or a false dragon that is part of a mummer's show. Both could apply to Faegon equally, so we'll just have to wait for the books and find out which is the truth lol
Personally, I think it's both, how many times does GRRM reinforce the grey area in everything? It works as a face value assessment which hides the deeper truth of Faegon being a Blackfyre conveniently in it's shadow. It's a clue and a red herring in one so George.
I think Aegons story will have a more positive outcome than most. He is a Blackfyre but doesn't know. It will be revealed. But somehow that will end up keeping him alive, perhaps even house Blackfyre restored. I can also see him killing the plotters Varys and Illyrio himself. The "didn't see it coming" noment for them.
Even if he’s a Blackfyre, he still has blood of the Dragon. Also, it would be kinda interesting that the Three Heads of the Dragons, (Jon, Dany, and Aegon) were all not necessarily “traditional” Ruling Targaryens. (Aegon being a son of a cadet branch, Dany being a women twice married, and Jon potentially being a hidden love child)
Dany might still burn Kings Landing, but as a mercy after a grey scale plague has broken out
I’ve been super ready for Winds since I finished reading the books for the first time a year or two back. But both your videos, which are great, have me super hyped
Mummer's dragon is duplicitous though. It could mean "Dragon of the Mummer" i.e. Illyrio's actual son. It could be "possession", the "dragon 'owned'/'related' to the mummers". I personally think he's true, and the reference is just reference to Varys and Illyrio, they are the mummers. He is the mummer's dragon; they own him, i dont believe he's Illyrio's son whatsoever in a trueborn sense.
I think both are true - he's the dragon of the mummers AND a fake dragon for the hero to fight, but it's by no means certain! We shall see~
cammokyle yes it could just as easily be a possessive “Mummer’s”
Lucifer means Lightbringer you have any thoughts on Aegon VI and his clear parallels to Aegon V? I don’t see him as the “bad guy”
Even if he’s not Illyrio’s son he is probably still a Blackfyre.
The mummer's dragon could also be Jon Snow. He's a dragon pretending to be a wolf's bastard.
Quaithe: Beware the mummer's dragon.
Jon Snow stabs Dany.
Coincidence?
I have a feeling that Stannis will meet his end at the hands of F Aegon. Because they are going to take Storms End and I feel that he will ambush him. Seems poetic for the last male targaryen to kill the last male Baratheons.
Also remember what Laswell Peake said, "Even after a century, some of us still have friends in the Reach. The power of Highgarden may not be what Mace Tyrell imagines."
Both Nymeria and Tyene are heading to KL, Nymeria to the Small Council and Tyene to the High Sparrow.
Jon Connington may unleash a grey plague on Westeros but I think that Cersei will use Aerys's wildfire to destroy KL. Alt Shift X made a great video about it.
I tend to agree those things are very possible, love Alt Shift
Laswell does seem to foreshadow Randyll Tarly's defection there.
Faegon will probably be a demonstration of how you can’t conquer Westeros without Dragons. Reality is the Targaryen without their dragons are no different to any other lords. What separates them and parts them from others to rule is their dragons, without dragons no leverage to always stand apart, it be interesting though
One thing that I never see discussed much is why Danny’s dragons are growing so fast. In Fire and Blood dragons took decades to grow.
Because it’s taking GRRM to write the books.....
They grow faster in nature it is known. They dont have a dragon keep
I haven't seen this anywhere... the show often combined characters. We are told in the show that Jon is really called Aegon. Could it be that they gave show Jon some of the fAegon storyline?
which parts are you thinking of?
@@DavidLightbringer his romantic and political relationship with Dany, maybe. Though Dany likely took some Aegon aspects as well. And perhaps some other characters too.
Would be interesting to see the difference if Aegon becomes the first to interact with Dany or Jon (I believe he won't come back or not at the side of the living at least. But that's just me).
I have a theory, at the end of TWOW fAegon takes the Iron Throne but in the process there'll be a Greyscale outbreak in King's Landing which leaves Dany and Tyrion no other choice but to burn down King's Landing with all of its populace to prevent the disease to spread around entire Westeros
Could be. There's no doubt they'll be a plague. It wouldn't be medieval if there wasn't.
@@alanpennie8013 That was my first thought after reading Jon Con's POV chapters, that he'll accidently infect other people with Greyscale.
Oh, and by the way, I see the North being neutral during the Second Dance of Dragons which I belive will happen in the books.
D3V!L HUNT3R the north gonna be too preoccupied with the White Walkers coming down into Westeros
And Dany will redeem herself in the kingdom sacrificing everything she has (I think her dragons will live, only Rhaegal will die since Viserion seems to be hatching and Drogon is way too important) to help against the Long Night, so she's not mad or a tyrant anymore for Westeros, but a hero, Azor Ahai.
You guys are the best. Love how you guys are so well versed in the lore and details. Great vid!
Would like to just stop and say how much I appreciate you two. Thanks for the conversations
Amazing talk! I'm loving this colaborative project.
i think i already commented that on one of the dune videos but your channel is just magical man, thanks also for the LML recommendation, not disappointed
The mummers dragon profecy will probably make Dany believe that FAegon is a fraud, but it may take a while, as in addition to the idea of having a family, she may find a conflicting profecy, because if she learns about FAegon about the same time she finds out about Jon, then it may resonate in her mind the "The dragon must have three heads" profecy, as a parallel to Aegon the conquerer and his two sisters
This has been a real fun listen. Great banter, guys!
I think Tyrion has been getting darker the last few books. While his advice to F'Aegon isn't entirely bad, I do feel, intentional or not, he's going to be spreading discord to whomever he ends up advising.
Faegon and the Golden Company are really interesting to me so this was a great video to watch.
The idea of Aegon being the perfect king and how easy it seems it would be for him to take power makes me suspicious. Add in Cerci's prophecy (Aegon isn't a queen) and how "cheated" the audience would feel for Aegon to get Danny's moment, and I'm starting to wonder if Cerci won't go down so easy.
My guess? Maybe he does take King's Landing, and as he's parading down the streets thinking he's won, Cerci flees to safely. Then, either Cerci or Connington lights the wildfire. Argon's forces go up in flames and the Lanisters are back on top.
Tyrion *expertly* manipulates Young Griff when he offers him up the heroic steps needed to get Dany to come fly to him "as fast as wind and water can carry her". Love it. For all intents and purposes, it's a legit plan for most, however it turns out.
P.S. Recently rewatched Order of the Greenhand's R+L=A/Fay series, and I very much think they're onto something, and something good at that. This "perfect prince" of ours mouth-wateringly melts *right* into "The Prince that was Promised". Just ma feelz.
Mummer's dragon could be interpreted as the dragon that BELONGS to a mummer (Varys).
I've always seen that speech to Kevin at the end of the prologue to be a speech directed at someone else, trying to hype up the idea of fAegon.
Someone that is most likely watching via a glass candle, which would explain the open window letting the moonlight in, despite it being very cold. (I think the candles use the moon as some sort of satellite, to work)
I'm not sure who that someone is, it may even be multiple people. But it would make sense if it was for the benefit of Doran Martell, who is currently contemplating an alliance with the person Varys is boasting about. (Truthfully or not)
I thought he was talking to the raven that was in the window. Meaning Bloodraven. We know he's used ravens to watch things outside his cave, so why not this one? Something Varys should know he does, btw. Which I think is further evidence that Aegon is a Blackfyre because Bloodraven actively and aggressively opposed them in each rebellion.
@@ashleyofnaath
Great point!
But I think it's more likely to be maester Walgrave, considering it's a white raven, but bloodRaven, or someone else, could be in one of the other Ravens that would be in Pycelle's quarters.
Side note, I think the three-eyed crow that shows up in Bran's dreams is not Bloodraven but someone else, possibly Walgrave.
I think Bloodraven appears as the weirwood tree, not a crow. which would also explain why Bloodraaven was so confused when Bran asks him if he's the three-eyed Crow, and he says "...maybe once, but that was a long time ago"(paraphrasing) but I digress
@@jsull81 Totally agree. The crow in Bran's dreams isn't BR. Bran has a dream with both the crow and the weirwood in it at the same time. Why would BR appear within the same dream as two different entities? Not to mention the crow was a more recent fixture in the dreams, and Bloodraven claims to have been appearing to Bran all of his life. It doesn't add up. I also consider that him appearing with a weirwood face to Melisandre in the flames as another indication that he's the tree, not the crow.
Apart from the reasons I stated above, I lean towards the white raven being BR because it's intimated in an earlier book that Bloodraven is watching the events in the Red Keep. Sansa prays to the weirwood to send her a champion, a true knight to save her, etc etc. She thinks its Dontos, but shortly after, she literally runs into The Hound as he's walking out of a room. He escorts her back to Maegor's Holdfast, getting her safely past Boros Blount who was on guard that night. Call me crazy, but I read that as Bloodraven sending Sansa the Hound as her savior in that moment. If that's true, BR has an established presence in the castle. So he could skin change a raven to witness events outside the godswood.
@@ashleyofnaath
Exactly, there's definitely something fishy going on with the three-eyed Crow, and he's been visiting other people too, like Euron and possibly littlefinger.
And bloodraven could be the white crow, either way, he's definitely been keeping tabs on what's been going on seemingly everywhere
Also I think that Varys is definitely the perfumed Seneschal Dany needs to be wary of.
Does anyone else think Varys is a Blackfire? Sara was his sister. This is why the sorcerer snipped him for his “kings blood” and thus eliminated him from the male line of Targeryan heirs. If Varys can’t be king, then his nephew will.
Aegon is never going to use the black dragon banner, so what would be the point? That would require him to admit to being a Blackfyre, which is about as likely as getting Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey Velaryon to admit that they're bastards. There won't be a sixth Blackfyre Rebellion. Also, if he's a Blackfyre on his mother's side he's not a Blackfyre.
This at least the fifth time I have watch/heard this video.
I'm using all the "winds of winter" videos as my lullabys.
Both of you are amazing, but nonetheless you need to keep it up. LML, please give a shout out. Quinn, keep making Dune videos. Again, love from URUGUAY
About Faegon's claim being greater than Dany's (if he really is a Targaryen) didn't Aerys remove Rhaegar as his heir and make Viserys his heir? Then Viserys made Dany his own heir. So I wonder which one would really have the strongest claim?
The worst thing to do in George’s world is to act decisively during a complete clustefuck of a situation and have no reliable witnesses/evidence because due process has no power here
I’ve always believed oberyn martell gave aegon to Varys since we don’t know what he is doing in that time, I also find it interesting no one thinks you can glamour a baby, since performing a glamour is a thing
If he was his son ,wouldn’t he keep the dragon eggs for his son? Instead of giving it to Danny
That’s a great point, maybe he didn’t think they would hatch anyways?
@@saminhuq8469 respectfully, what you're saying is that you assume what he had assumed.
It is likely that whatever takes the least amount of assumptions is closer to the truth, or at least to what can be proven as truth.
That’s one huge hole in the Faegon theory. Even if Illiyrio didn’t realize the eggs would hatch why wouldn’t he still give such a valuable possession to his son’s group?
@@210SAi Dany’s marriage to Drogo would have won Viserys a large and strong army, maybe Illyrio was trying to secure favour with the other Targ group with the eggs? What better to tempt Viserys with?
I've recently started keeping with the mummers dragon being Dany. She's constantly been in this personal battle of becoming her own dragon or not, and Quaithes was warning her of herself. Plus the pairings they're in don't make any sense of Aegon, and for the most part the people Quaithe warns her about have no ill intent for Dany, including herself.
Also, Aegon being born at the tower of joy would be a lot more fun.
The only problem I see with that is why would you present a primary character throughout all the books....Have her accumulate so much power only to end with her being a fraud?
@@210SAi It's not about being a fraud, she's still a Targaryen, but she hasn't had the fierceness to gain the leadership role of a continent full of game players in mereen or westeros. If she becomes a bit more forceful she should be able to hold power. Ie becoming a true dragon from a false dragon.
Loving this series, and Quinn, the blue-green lighting behind you is lovely, especially with the visualizations on the monitors. Very nice. It fits you, like the delightful busy-ness behind LmL fits him.
I feel like I am the only one that is fully on team faegon. After Robb's death, Stannis and faegon seem like the 2 most capable people Westeros would accept as rulers.
The only problem I see in believing Aegon to be the true King of Westeros is how late along in the story he shows up. It would be like he became the new Dany (outsider coming to rule the Kingdom) yet no mention of him existing until over halfway into the story????
I'm very pro Faegon
I support young griff too
O G an improvised solution to the five year gap? 🤔
My top five picks for King:
1. Stannis
2. Robb
3. FAegon
4. Daenerys
5. Jon
So yeah, I agree with your statement.
Anybody thought of how bloodraven will react to faegon messing with his best laid plans?
Personally I’m a fAegon believer but there is one little thing that makes me slightly skeptical. When Varys kills Pycelle and Kevan he tells Kevan that fAegon is Rhaegar’s son. If Varys knows the reality of fAegon being a Blackfyre why not reveal it to Kevan before his death? I find it odd that he would lie about that aspect of his plan considering he seems pretty truthful about everything else reveals in that last chapter. If anyone has an explanation I’d love to hear it
I thought about that too. For me, Varys did not reveal the truth to Kevan in case they were being watch through glass candles (pretty sure Varys would know about that). But it sure would be interesting to hear other theories about it
Ecila that seems to make the most sense out of any theory I’ve seen. Still not totally convinced though. Has Varys ever been shown to know or care about glass candles? From what I remember the only people who seem to have a connection to them so far are Quaithe, Daenerys, Marwyn and ,by association, Sam and the other Oldtown acolytes. I guess that includes Jaqen/Pate as well?
@@liambitt6063 you are right ! We cannot know for sure if Varys is aware of such thing, but maybe he learned about it through his network of spies ? Since he hates magic so much, I can easily see him thinking that the people using glass candles would have bad intentions so he may not want them to know about the truth.. Or maybe the solution is waaay simpler : Aegon being the real one as you suggested first, or he was simply being careful in case of being watched (physically) since he knows that everything in KL can be seen or heard
@@NobodyGirl26 perhaps he just doesn't want his own "little birds" overhearing the truth
Thought the same. But we cannot say who he really is he could be targaryen, blackfyre or some common lyseni kid
The more i listen the more i suspect that George can't squeeze it all in only two books, too much material. And it makes prospects of finishing saga even more dubious.
😪
Should GRRM think ahead, write down major story lines and points and pick a young writer to continue it after he passes away?
@@cristiansaucedo4707
The think is he does not want that.
For him it would destroy his legacy
@@sinndeslebens263 Hmm. Then he'll have to get on it. Heard he is going to help with HBO prequels though
It would be SOOO tragic, if Aegon in the end goes down burning and in fact was really Rhaegar‘s son 🤯
If Dany can't win the Iron Throne I would prefer even fAegon to Bran...
See, in the books, it was Tyrion who guessed that Young Griff was Prince. Further, Prince Aegon is already in Westeros.
Once Prince Aegon defeats Cersei and is hailed a hero by the small folks in Kings Landing, are you seriously suggesting that Daenerys’s will fly in on her dragons and call hero Prince Aegon a mummers dragon.
Can’t see it myself.
FACTS
you have to understand that coming back after months (and well after this abbreviation started being used) was so damn confusing, I was definitely getting who it was soon enough and I mean realized it wasn’t and actual name more or less immediately, but the first half second thought was definitely “no, you can’t tell me I missed a whole ass Targaryen... with the stupidest name of them all”
wait, so if Aegon were to be blackfyre and Illyrio's son. When do you believe that the scheming begin?? It seems odd that, Illyrio would one day see his son and think. "well it turns out he does look like a targaryen, I could have him challenge for the throne". Would all of this be a coincidence and decided upon his birth?
I'm almost certain it was all decided upon his birth. (F)Aegon's whole existence and preparations have been planned in advance, he has been trained his whole life for that specific moment.
I love seeing the two smexiest GOT/ASOIAF UA-camrs on one awesome, and well-done video, yet again! Thanks guys! You're both awesome!
Most people know how ASOIAF is based upon The Wars of the Roses between the Yorks (Starks) and Lancasters (Lannister). After Henry VII takes the throne, theres was a claim in continental Europe from a man who called himself Perkin Warbeck and his supporters defended he really was one of the Princes in the Tower; Richard Duke of York who allegedly got killed by orders of his evil uncle Richard III . He was defeated and executed but was probably a fake. Also, Elizabeth of York (his supposed elder sister) was queen consort at the time with Henry VII.
PD: I read Dance a while ago and wondered why George was bringing this new Targeryan so late in the game and what was the point of Quentyns POV if he gets killed in the end, but those Blackfyre, Dorne and bell ideas make a lot of sense
Warbeck was sponsored by Margaret of Burgundy (Edward IV's sister) who played a role similar to Illyrio's in the series.
EVERYTHING every word is symbolism and foreshadowing for LmL. “Jon disrobed and relieved himself” my God!!! Azor Ahi!!! Moon meteor symbolism!!!!
Actually even the Blackfyres have a better claim than the Lannisters.
Considering the whole thing about Daeron II and his successors coming from Aemon the Dragonknight while Daemon Blackfyre was the son of a King (Aegon, the Unworthy, eldest son of Viserys II) & Queen (Daena, the Defiant, wife of Baelor, the Blessed and eldest daughter of Aegon, the Dragonsbane)!
So if Varys is actually for the realm and he actually has some big play in this whole fAegon deal, and yet still the people will suffer immensely because his plan falls apart or from his interfering, that would be a crime punishable by death if Tyrion tells Daenerys, because he’s pretty much already figured it out. And that would get him in her good graces quick enough to potentially become the hand. And she could very well execute Varys based on Tyrion’s selling him out.
Varys mentions Aegon lived with fisher folk, he knows what it means to be hungry, to be hunted and to be afraid. I just don't think that'd be the case if he was Illyrio's son. So I guess it comes down to if you believe Varys or not.
fAegon has a personal knight, Septa and master, he's literally been on a camping trip. He's clearly being taken care of and not 'suffering'. Varys and Co are doing all the planning and strategising , clearing his way. Meanwhile they've clearly puffed up his ego with praise...he may have gone hungry while 'camping' but was he ever completely on his own without the security of knowing Jon Con and the rest are with him? Dany on the other hand hasn't always had that sort of security, her own brother was abusive. They were turned away countless times and they didn't have a whole team to tend to their 'education and training'. He may be a good kid, but he's also coming across as just that. He's impressionable and even entitled. We've seen plenty of impressive young protagonists in the story to be impressed with what been shown so far. He may turn out to be like Rhaegar, alot of fluffy praise for someone who never accomplished much on their own. E.g. The plan to take Storm's end is Jon Con's but because of Tyrion mocking him he may have realised that he needs to take the lead, he will undoubtedly receive alot of praise too. But if he continues the same way he will believe his own hype and not self reflect. His attitude toward Jon Con already was really off, it didn't seem like he sees Jon Con as a mentor and companion. GRRM is comparing him to Egg. But Egg was genuinely nice and he'd never treat Dunk the way he seemingly treats Jon Con.
The problem Dany will have with him is probably his entitlement toward her and her dragons. Plus of course the prophecy about the mummer's dragon. She might struggle a bit, but his personality is going to decide it for her and like they mentioned Drogon and his reaction to fAegon.
Jon C should learn from people who have corona: if u have a contagious disease, travel across the world
This is so great . I wish we had any chance of any of these things happening. Sadly, your videos is all we'll ever have.
I wouldn't be surprised if Dany never went back to Mereen.
I think what ya'll said towards the end makes a lot of sense, for Dany to make a showing of "accepting" faegon publicly by introducing him to the dragons, basically as genetic test, and then him getting eaten and people believing he is not a Targaryen because of that, since just her claim to his deceit wouldve never been enough. Dany has done something that has a similar energy during the sack of astapor, and by then she'd also have tyrion as an advisor and he would appreciate a plan like that
What if she tried it and it didn’t work though? Blackfyres are descendants of the Targaryens too. In theory, it being a bastard line shouldn’t matter. That might be an interesting twist too.
As ASOIAF is inspired by the Wars of the Roses, I strongly believe that Aegon is fAegon, as his story is probably inspired by Lambert Simnel, a pretender to the English throne. A priest noticed the resemblance that Lambert had to one of the princes of the tower and he was raised to be the perfect king, in exile and they tried to pass him as king Edward VI, but the plot ultimately failed.
oh ya know I think I may have heard that once, but I don't know my European history well. Thanks for piping up!
Oooo you two have the cutest lovers quarrels and the passive aggressiveness is adorable
In my opinion, fAegon's really screwed and I have my doubts about his survival up to Dany's arrival to Westeros.
I agree... if only bc of the greyscale. Connington, in his effort to help, will end up unleashing a plague on Westeros, dooming Aegon one way or another (he will either catch it himself-I find this very likely-or he will be blamed for it).
Weddings are dangerous over there.
I think Cersei will somehow blow up him and Tyrells together and get rid of them for all and then Dany arrives.
That whole monologue about how Aegon has been shaped for rule, it's honestly true of Aegon V, if you took that quote out of context. And even Aegon V messed things up towards the end.
Could the Volanqar actually refers to Aegon? This would make sense if Aegon does cast down Cercei.
Volanqur means brother and accha to me it refers to jaime Lannister who will end up breaking another oath this time queenslaying and probably he will also die that very time. So they both came in the world together and they will die together
never said it was HER little brother...
I'm currently re-reading the books I've only got so far with the first half of book 3 a few years back, but this year I'm planning on reading all of them, I have really enjoyed you guys so keep up the good work
I think Danny will burn down Kings landing but because of the gray scale pandemic caused by John Con.
I still remember the first time I read that epilogue in Dance and it blew my mind.
People need to remember that whether or not Aegon is legitimate has nothing to do with whether or not he will succeed the throne. GRRM has said many times that he doesn't like the fantasy trope of the one true king who claims his birth right. I'd love it if false Aegon establishes himself despite just being some Free Cities bastard while Jon with the actual "Secret heir to the throne" lineage just melts away into a peaceful obscurity.
I love your videos!!! Excited everyday waiting for each one of these 23 to come out. Twow will be epic
There is a theory that Varys himself is a Blackfyre. After all we know their is power in the blood of kings and why else would he be used for magic.
We know from the Duncan and Egg stories that Egg shaved his head to hide his silver hair. Is Varys the mummers dragon and not Aegon?
And as Maegor said only the blood of The dragon should know the secrets of The Red Keep.