Thank you Don. People tend to forget that the generations before developed skills that are golden. This trade allows us to continue learning new skills, both old and new.
I'm a 25 years old "man" from Italy, and i whatch as many of your videos as possible. I have to say, I'm loving this, thank you for sharing your expirence with the whole world, it's helping me to become a pro. Thanks a lot
Love your videos. Best on UA-cam. Just retired as a toolmaker myself and did a fair amount of OD grinding. I wish someone had showed me this years ago. What you share is better than a trade school. Suburban is great product too. I wish the lord would allow me a second go around at life. I'd pay more attention as an apprentice and strive to be a better toolmaker.
hii sir .i am from India i am working as a turner . through this video i learn to tapper adjustment trick and to operate OD grinding. its very useful for me sir. thank you and please upload more video sir
That’s a great tip. Been grinding over 20 years and it never occurred to me to grind the driver. My method is on a slow day years ago I ground several shafts all different lengths straight and set them in a box. Then I pull out one that’s the length plus minus the tailstocks travel from the part I need to grind, load it in the machine indicate it straight moving a indicator across the shaft until it’s a tenth or better. Then load the part I’m going to grind and the taper will be within .0002” first try guaranteed. It’s a huge time saver. Like you said I’m often given a shaft with less than .001” on the diameter so you need it straight or very close to before you start making sparks.
Great tip Don ! Been o.d. grinding for about 20 year's and this is a first for me. Unfortunately for me, a lot of the job's that I grind are heavy and need a crane to take them in and out. But every once in a while I get stuff such as this, so I'll try it for sure ! Thank's again and keep those great video's coming. Cheer's from Hamilton, Ontario.
That's a nice trick and I was taught the same by the previous grinder hand. Easily gets within 0.01 mm with the taper just by doing it with the machine switched off, BUT requires that the workpiece is easily maneuvered (weighs less than 10 kg). I would not want to swap it end-for-end if it were like the forming press hinge pins I just did - 150 kg each. But I haven't ever figured out why on earth would anyone seriously grind, adjust, grind, adjust ad infitum, when you can just measure the workpiece and adjust the machine to the workpiece and not doodle around with the adjustments. If I see someone doing that after being told of correct/better methods, he/she/ is not a professional but a time-and-money-waster that should be let go. What I've done when I have a piece that has some/normal grinding allowance, I adjust the machine to approximately straight just by eye, then grind each end clean. Measure the difference with a micrometer, whip out a dial indicator with a disc or bar shaped tip and attach it to grinder head. Zero out on the workpiece end that is closer to the table pivot point, then go to the other end. Adjust the table so that the DI shows half the difference you measured and you are done. One could also check it after initial grinding to make sure that the DI was dead-on perpendicular to the workpiece and didn't produce 0.01 mm taper because of that. The same measure and adjust procedure can be done also very easily for a workpiece that was previously ground but needs more to be taken away. Just run the DI across it so it shows zero or if there is diameter difference, then half the difference.
In the 40 years on working with my kiwi-way cylindrical grinder. I have made centerpieces for both ends. Thinking haven’t had to make for awhile. A #2 Morse taper with a .250 diameter hole on big end about a inch deep concentric to the taper. This machine works 1-1 at 4 inches. 6 inch part 1 1/2 to 1. 2 in part 1/2 to 1. I can usually be within 10 minutes of almost any taper up to 5 degrees. 40 years on one machine helps a lot.
This is a great trick! Does the grinding wheel wear unevenly when you "walk" it across? Does the right side wear out faster? If so, then would it be recommended to pull it out, step over the width of the wheel, then plunge to the same depth?
great video, We just bought a used Myford grinder. Havent used it yet but am looking forward to. I paid 800 for a new suburban grinding vise in the early nineties everything I see from the company is quality.
This is a great tip! Someday I hope to add a decent size Cincinnati OD-ID grinder to my shop for precision shaft work and finishing heat treated parts and I am certain this tip will be of value. Thanks for sharing!
Since the bed pivot is near the center of the bed and the tailstock is closest to the pivot, wouldn't it be faster to make the first adjustment with the dog on the tailstock end and then do the head end? The tailstock end will move less than the head end as you pivot.
I wish that I had seen this 3 days ago.I just finished O.D grinding a part before seeing this it could have saved me a lot of time. I just got a #3 moore jig grinder and am new to jig grinding,do you use jig grinders at your place if so can you make some videos on tips for jig grinding.
this is variation on using paper as a guide between the work piece and the wheel. paper is about .0035 thick, so when the wheel grabs the paper you know you near the .0035 from the work piece and then can start to spark it out.
Hi Don, Wow That was GREAT!!!!!!!!!! THANKS SO MUCH. I have not even run my O.D. grinder,I just do not feel like I am ready. This is going to help me start at least with some set up.I will take your advice and be very very careful and pay close attention. Safety first... I love your VIDEO its my first one. I will probably stay up all night watching more THANKS AGAIN M.K.S.
+John G. CimCool Cimstar 40B Pink, water soluble synthetic. We've found if to have the least issues with contact dermatitis and has the longest tank life before going skunky.
nice! definitely gonna give this a shot. Will be nice to try for my clearance change jobs as I usually only have .001 stock to take off the OD of a inner race, Thanks for the tip!
That sounds about right. Like you have said, this method is just a means to "get it close," you'll still have to dial it in when working with precise tolerances. As always, thanks again for watching!
Would the grinding wheel have lost circumference going left to right and thus given the piece the .0002" extra diameter on the right end, going that much outside the tolerance you predicted? No real understanding on my part, just a guess. Super cool method.
Old trick done it for years.Had one part 20 foot long 8 inch dia. Only had .001 stock left to remove with .001 tolerance. I managed to grind it and did,nt make the dia too small.
That "trick" is probably straight out of the operator's manual for that machine. Exactly what part were you machining that was 20 feet long and 8" in diameter with a "tolerance" of .001" and how many supports had to be under it in 20 feet to prevent 8" ANYTHING from sagging in the middle several thousandths?
a steady rest for grinders is not something that we use in out type of product. i have used steady rest in the past but again. showing how to use a steady rest is not something that is on our list at this time.
can you please show how to INDICATE OR CLOCK A PART ON A MAGNETIC CHUCK ON CYLINDRICAL GRINDERS? is that possible? I know you're using dogs but clocking while the chuck is spinning is something I am having trouble with thanks
Nice tricks! I have made several cylinder squares where the ends were square with the OD. Lot's of fun! If you are off .00005 it will show up on a good surface plate with a light behind it.
interesting tip. also noticed you have you drive dog pushing,, not pulling. i can see its wedged so its not likely to move, but pushing isnt really the best way , is it don. This way would definitely take a lot of time if it were a big job, having to crane it in and out would be a pain. would you s a dial in that instance. or just mark the job up and lightly touch either end, then move taper. and repeat one more time.
If someone gives me a piece to grind and wants minimum stock removal I can set the wheel up parallel with the job by using feeler gauges I can set up within .0002" or about 5 microns before I start grinding. I can see the logic of the method in the video and it's a decent idea but the traverse across the piece with such a heavy cut would cause uneven wear on the wheel even on mild steel being ground here. Over the years I've ground mainly stainless steel and Inconel which don't produce sparks so for the novice doing this the wheel would be liable to bite in and then bang you'd have a destroyed workpiece.
Given that the bedways of the grinder (even when new) are not perfectly straight: Although your suggestion seems like a good idea, it would mean moving the tailstock in closer when it came time to do the actual job, which would mean the tail centre was no longer exactly on the same axis as when the adjustment was done.* It seems to me this would defeat the purpose of carrying out the adjustment. I'm guessing that's why he uses the actual workpiece to carry out the adjustment, because it's exactly the "right" length. *Even if the bedways were straight, the tailstock cannot clamp up in EXACTLY the same alignment twice in a row. You find this even on a lathe when doing fussy work: once you've got rid of any taper in a particular workpiece, it pays not to unclamp the tailstock from then on, and to snug up the barrel clamp to exactly the same angle each time you take the work out to measure it
So he got the part parallel to the grinding wheel through out the travel. I mean he said the table has worn so he tweaked it to take out the error in the travel. I'm not a machinist but if your going to grind and cut, keeping your piece square or parallel to the machine, which ever is required, is obvious. Seems to me you learn your machine and don't get aggressive with removing too much at once.
Uh, if you're "heavy" on the right side of the wheel meaning it's sticking farther out then smacking in the right end of that table so it gets closer to the 'heavy" side of the stone is only going to make that side "heavier". Which is obvious given how the more you "fixed" the "taper" the more the left side of the stone did NOTHING and the RIGHT SIDE WAS DOING MORE AND MORE. That's quite a "trick" all right.
Another problem, unless you keep adjusting, the last cut would not remove the taper. Instead you would end up with a part tapered at both ends (fattest in the middle). You cannot grind parallel without adjusting the bed.
You did not have to do that for the taper. You could run an indicator across the part from side to side or touch of with the wheel from side to side with out turning on the grinding wheel. It's safer.
The stock is not always trustworthy, especially a piece that has been heat treated. You could see in the video how it did not grind evenly on the first pass due to deviations in the stock
+JC I was thinking the same thing, There is 2 ways that I find the taper when I have to do a skim grind with minimal stock. 1) Put the indicator on the hub of the wheel behind the part, find your center line of the part, stroke the part in and find out where your at and that usually gets me within .0005(assuming your part is already manufactured straight) or 2) Stroke in the table the length of the part with an indicator and that should get you in within a thousandths. I feel like the way hes doing it by using the driver would only at best get you in the ballpark of straight. Using an indicator is definitely the best way in my opinion.
+Полиграфович When the part comes back from heat treat it is generally warped and not straight. You don't know what you're dealing with when using the part.
Thank you Don. People tend to forget that the generations before developed skills that are golden. This trade allows us to continue learning new skills, both old and new.
Thank you!
I'm a 25 years old "man" from Italy, and i whatch as many of your videos as possible. I have to say, I'm loving this, thank you for sharing your expirence with the whole world, it's helping me to become a pro. Thanks a lot
Thank you very much!
You're awesome brother, thanks for sharing the oldschool grinding way!
Love your videos. Best on UA-cam. Just retired as a toolmaker myself and did a fair amount of OD grinding. I wish someone had showed me this years ago. What you share is better than a trade school. Suburban is great product too. I wish the lord would allow me a second go around at life. I'd pay more attention as an apprentice and strive to be a better toolmaker.
hii sir .i am from India i am working as a turner . through this video i learn to tapper adjustment trick and to operate OD grinding. its very useful for me sir. thank you and please upload more video sir
That’s a great tip. Been grinding over 20 years and it never occurred to me to grind the driver. My method is on a slow day years ago I ground several shafts all different lengths straight and set them in a box. Then I pull out one that’s the length plus minus the tailstocks travel from the part I need to grind, load it in the machine indicate it straight moving a indicator across the shaft until it’s a tenth or better. Then load the part I’m going to grind and the taper will be within .0002” first try guaranteed. It’s a huge time saver. Like you said I’m often given a shaft with less than .001” on the diameter so you need it straight or very close to before you start making sparks.
Great tip Don ! Been o.d. grinding for about 20 year's and this is a first for me. Unfortunately for me, a lot of the job's that I grind are heavy and need a crane to take them in and out. But every once in a while I get stuff such as this, so I'll try it for sure ! Thank's again and keep those great video's coming. Cheer's from Hamilton, Ontario.
That's a nice trick and I was taught the same by the previous grinder hand. Easily gets within 0.01 mm with the taper just by doing it with the machine switched off, BUT requires that the workpiece is easily maneuvered (weighs less than 10 kg). I would not want to swap it end-for-end if it were like the forming press hinge pins I just did - 150 kg each.
But I haven't ever figured out why on earth would anyone seriously grind, adjust, grind, adjust ad infitum, when you can just measure the workpiece and adjust the machine to the workpiece and not doodle around with the adjustments. If I see someone doing that after being told of correct/better methods, he/she/ is not a professional but a time-and-money-waster that should be let go.
What I've done when I have a piece that has some/normal grinding allowance, I adjust the machine to approximately straight just by eye, then grind each end clean. Measure the difference with a micrometer, whip out a dial indicator with a disc or bar shaped tip and attach it to grinder head. Zero out on the workpiece end that is closer to the table pivot point, then go to the other end. Adjust the table so that the DI shows half the difference you measured and you are done. One could also check it after initial grinding to make sure that the DI was dead-on perpendicular to the workpiece and didn't produce 0.01 mm taper because of that.
The same measure and adjust procedure can be done also very easily for a workpiece that was previously ground but needs more to be taken away. Just run the DI across it so it shows zero or if there is diameter difference, then half the difference.
Don , your enthusiasm in all your videos is motivating. Thanks for the vids.
You're welcome, and thank you for watching.
I learned this from this video YEARS ago, and I still use this method at work when doing a center setup on our KO Lees. . . .
Thanks for watching!
Grinded whole week and friday evening looking grinding videos before going to bed. thx for great videos and hope i can see more these from you
You got this!
I love this trick I'll have to use it. I always love finding tricks like this.
Please keep sharing them.
In the 40 years on working with my kiwi-way cylindrical grinder. I have made centerpieces for both ends. Thinking haven’t had to make for awhile. A #2 Morse taper with a .250 diameter hole on big end about a inch deep concentric to the taper. This machine works 1-1 at 4 inches. 6 inch part 1 1/2 to 1. 2 in part 1/2 to 1. I can usually be within 10 minutes of almost any taper up to 5 degrees. 40 years on one machine helps a lot.
This is a great trick! Does the grinding wheel wear unevenly when you "walk" it across? Does the right side wear out faster? If so, then would it be recommended to pull it out, step over the width of the wheel, then plunge to the same depth?
great video, We just bought a used Myford grinder. Havent used it yet but am looking forward to. I paid 800 for a new suburban grinding vise in the early nineties everything I see from the company is quality.
I'm glad to hear our products have stood the test of time. Thanks for watching, and thanks for the overall support.
This is a great tip! Someday I hope to add a decent size Cincinnati OD-ID grinder to my shop for precision shaft work and finishing heat treated parts and I am certain this tip will be of value. Thanks for sharing!
Very good thanks
Thank you too!
Since the bed pivot is near the center of the bed and the tailstock is closest to the pivot, wouldn't it be faster to make the first adjustment with the dog on the tailstock end and then do the head end? The tailstock end will move less than the head end as you pivot.
Hey Don. Love your instructions. Simular technique to calibrating a Machine Level.
I wish that I had seen this 3 days ago.I just finished O.D grinding a part before seeing this it could have saved me a lot of time.
I just got a #3 moore jig grinder and am new to jig grinding,do you use jig grinders at your place if so can you make some videos on tips for jig grinding.
How would this method work on a lathe? (between centres) Love this method.
Using the dog and the part as a line up like buddy bar. Thanks for sharing. "Grinding the dog" and "counting sparks"
this is variation on using paper as a guide between the work piece and the wheel. paper is about .0035 thick, so when the wheel grabs the paper you know you near the .0035 from the work piece and then can start to spark it out.
Hi Don, Wow That was GREAT!!!!!!!!!! THANKS SO MUCH. I have not even run my O.D. grinder,I just do not feel like I am ready. This is going to help me start at least with some set up.I will take your advice and be very very careful and pay close attention. Safety first... I love your VIDEO its my first one. I will probably stay up all night watching more THANKS AGAIN M.K.S.
cool. look forward to trying this today.. ran into the taper problem last night
Don, thanks.. was able to dial it in to .0005 the first try. :)
Good to hear!
i got a question how come you just let the tailstock spring tension hold your work and dont lock it into position ?
On this particular grinder\part the spring tension is more than enough to hold the part. On a larger heavier part, locking would be more important.
thanks don i been in machine shop work for 25 years now and really enjoy your tutorials thanks for taking your time to answer me .
I was thinking instead of use that trick what don’t you try to put 2 dial indicator at each end of the of the table
Out of curiousity..What coolant is being used in this video?
+John G. CimCool Cimstar 40B Pink, water soluble synthetic. We've found if to have the least issues with contact dermatitis and has the longest tank life before going skunky.
excellent . Old school basics gets this set up to a tap of a mallet. . Great tutorial. thanks
nice! definitely gonna give this a shot. Will be nice to try for my clearance change jobs as I usually only have .001 stock to take off the OD of a inner race, Thanks for the tip!
good idea for roughing out.
i have to work to microns .so still have to use a dti or digital Mic to finish accurately
That sounds about right. Like you have said, this method is just a means to "get it close," you'll still have to dial it in when working with precise tolerances. As always, thanks again for watching!
it is a good ideal though having been in the trade for 30 years .one of the best ideas for getting the part close to parallel.
Don, that's so cool. More please :))
Would the grinding wheel have lost circumference going left to right and thus given the piece the .0002" extra diameter on the right end, going that much outside the tolerance you predicted? No real understanding on my part, just a guess. Super cool method.
No, but its a good thought
Very cool trick, thanks for sharing!
Glad you liked it!
Old trick done it for years.Had one part 20 foot long 8 inch dia. Only had .001 stock left to remove with .001 tolerance. I managed to grind it and did,nt make the dia too small.
That "trick" is probably straight out of the operator's manual for that machine. Exactly what part were you machining that was 20 feet long and 8" in diameter with a "tolerance" of .001" and how many supports had to be under it in 20 feet to prevent 8" ANYTHING from sagging in the middle several thousandths?
Great trick, love you and your company. Awesome 👍
Sir, Please show how to use 2 point Steady Rest for long shaft grinding. 750 mm long & 22 mm Diameter. Can we make a steady rest by our own ?
a steady rest for grinders is not something that we use in out type of product. i have used steady rest in the past but again. showing how to use a steady rest is not something that is on our list at this time.
I liked this... You did grind a test part---> The dog end lol ;-)
Hey Don, does this mean you can teach an old dog new tricks? Haha happy holidays!
Andre Gross Andre , even old dog's can learn.
WOW! build plug gauges and that help me realy!
thats an awesome tip for a cutting mechanic, thankk you!
Thank everyday I learn
Hito Ortega That's all anyone can ask for.
can you please show how to INDICATE OR CLOCK A PART ON A MAGNETIC CHUCK ON CYLINDRICAL GRINDERS? is that possible?
I know you're using dogs but clocking while the chuck is spinning is something I am having trouble with
thanks
how much salary they have as a grinder?
depends on the state and experience
Love it this is fun keep them coming!
Nice tricks! I have made several cylinder squares where the ends were square with the OD. Lot's of fun! If you are off .00005 it will show up on a good surface plate with a light behind it.
James Spallinger he said 0005 not millionths
Don, what's with the jewelry? First thing that was beat into my head when I was an apprentice, no watches or rings!
MegaJohnhammond You are correct , I should have removed my watch and ring.
That was for machining mainly rings are ok the watch has got to go
Thank you because that was beat into my head as well and I’ve only been a grinder for 3 months lol.
A practical demonstration of how to wheel a wmw grinding machine
Thank you for watching!
Great trick!
You are an animal.
This is great!
You have so many thanks coming...
Mark
Best on u tube, thanks.
interesting tip. also noticed you have you drive dog pushing,, not pulling. i can see its wedged so its not likely to move, but pushing isnt really the best way , is it don. This way would definitely take a lot of time if it were a big job, having to crane it in and out would be a pain. would you s a dial in that instance. or just mark the job up and lightly touch either end, then move taper. and repeat one more time.
sweet trick!
your the master, love it....Do your employes watch this? They better.
If someone gives me a piece to grind and wants minimum stock removal I can set the wheel up parallel with the job by using feeler gauges I can set up within .0002" or about 5 microns before I start grinding. I can see the logic of the method in the video and it's a decent idea but the traverse across the piece with such a heavy cut would cause uneven wear on the wheel even on mild steel being ground here. Over the years I've ground mainly stainless steel and Inconel which don't produce sparks so for the novice doing this the wheel would be liable to bite in and then bang you'd have a destroyed workpiece.
thank you
It would be nice to have a long bar with a dog handy for this purpose. Accuracy increases great with lenght.
Given that the bedways of the grinder (even when new) are not perfectly straight:
Although your suggestion seems like a good idea, it would mean moving the tailstock in closer when it came time to do the actual job, which would mean the tail centre was no longer exactly on the same axis as when the adjustment was done.*
It seems to me this would defeat the purpose of carrying out the adjustment.
I'm guessing that's why he uses the actual workpiece to carry out the adjustment, because it's exactly the "right" length.
*Even if the bedways were straight, the tailstock cannot clamp up in EXACTLY the same alignment twice in a row. You find this even on a lathe when doing fussy work: once you've got rid of any taper in a particular workpiece, it pays not to unclamp the tailstock from then on, and to snug up the barrel clamp to exactly the same angle each time you take the work out to measure it
So he got the part parallel to the grinding wheel through out the travel. I mean he said the table has worn so he tweaked it to take out the error in the travel. I'm not a machinist but if your going to grind and cut, keeping your piece square or parallel to the machine, which ever is required, is obvious. Seems to me you learn your machine and don't get aggressive with removing too much at once.
Nice
nice
Uh, if you're "heavy" on the right side of the wheel meaning it's sticking farther out then smacking in the right end of that table so it gets closer to the 'heavy" side of the stone is only going to make that side "heavier". Which is obvious given how the more you "fixed" the "taper" the more the left side of the stone did NOTHING and the RIGHT SIDE WAS DOING MORE AND MORE. That's quite a "trick" all right.
ur my favorite
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Nice trick! : D : D : D : D
Glad you liked it! Thanks again for watching.
why not just grind it by flipping the part back and forth when you are close to the right size. This way, the last cut will remove the taper.
+GnosisMan50 The point is to not grind the part and lose stock, particularly when there is not much stock to lose on the specific part.
Another problem, unless you keep adjusting, the last cut would not remove the taper.
Instead you would end up with a part tapered at both ends (fattest in the middle).
You cannot grind parallel without adjusting the bed.
Just grind the part and put indicators on the table .. geez
This is a baby OD grinder.
You did not have to do that for the taper. You could run an indicator across the part from side to side or touch of with the wheel from side to side with out turning on the grinding wheel. It's safer.
The stock is not always trustworthy, especially a piece that has been heat treated. You could see in the video how it did not grind evenly on the first pass due to deviations in the stock
dude... just use indicator
+JC I was thinking the same thing, There is 2 ways that I find the taper when I have to do a skim grind with minimal stock. 1) Put the indicator on the hub of the wheel behind the part, find your center line of the part, stroke the part in and find out where your at and that usually gets me within .0005(assuming your part is already manufactured straight) or 2) Stroke in the table the length of the part with an indicator and that should get you in within a thousandths. I feel like the way hes doing it by using the driver would only at best get you in the ballpark of straight. Using an indicator is definitely the best way in my opinion.
+JC or use the part.. not the head of the dog screw o.O
+Полиграфович When the part comes back from heat treat it is generally warped and not straight. You don't know what you're dealing with when using the part.
Old thinking method
I've been more successful taking taper out of a 30" part in less time then this video.
thank you