I've done a similar repair. I just silver soldered the sleeve in place. I leave them at 1/2" diameter and use the early Sportster shift levers. They're smooth inside and believe me, it takes a lot to make them slip. And, when they do, there's no damage to the transmission or shaft lever. I once even made a custom stainless shift lever. I'd bet I had less time in that than you did in repairing your shaft. Just another way to think about.
Totally and for what you pay and how the job looks in the end is unbeatable. Mine has payed for it's self a few times over ( got lucky and had some jobs for it )
@@hilltopmachineworks2131 thanks tom !! A mile stone for sure, love all the support from people and met so many amazing people along the way this last year.
Glad you enjoyed it. I think to do it again I may have covered the shaft some how to protect it from spatter and welded it up on low heat little bits at a time with a big welder ( .024 wire with 75/25 has ) Then machined it. Could be a lot simpler that way. The only draw back would be to much heat I to the shaft
That is amazing, i never thought it was done this way, its way faster then the press/gouge method. Maybe the factorys have a spline cutting tool that they press over the shaft, but the wear on the tool might be very fast. I could see you would want to do a test run first to really see if the pitch and starting diameter was right. If you get others to do, keep in mind they dont all have the number of splines. Nice video
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have 3 shifter and a couple kick starter shafts that all need to be repaired in a similar fashion. Could you possibly show us the chart for spline numbers? One of the parts I need to fix is the kick starter shaft on my 1981 Maico 490. A replacement part that is difficult to find at best, if not almost impossible. I could easily repair what I have after watching this video. Thanks again.
Im so sorry , i have missplaced the spread sheet i had when i made the video and im traveling right now ( panama city ) and i cant look it up in the machinery hand book . But there are calculators out there for it . Perhaps this one littlemachineshop.com/reference/knurler.php Or this one . I realy nerded out on this one just now ,lol it has alot of info www.machiningdoctor.com/calculators/knurling/
Very nice I learned something. I had 6 months training before I went off to university and study engineering. Back then they didn't even have indexable carbide tools or DRO's. Now in retirement I have just bought a new Precision Matthews 1440GT lathe and an 835 mill. Cheap Chinese tooling and I'm having a blast...:)
Frankish , man I'm glad to hear that. all my stuff is second hand or with cheap tooling as well. In fact the knurling tool I was using cost $10, lol. Dro is worth the money ( all my dros are Chinese ones and are good and accurate ) What have you been building?
@@Wrighmachining Well so far I have been setting up and reconfiguring my shop. I built a clean work bench with a steel top, then promptly put all my grinding gear on it.. NOPE!.. Now have been moving all the dirty stuff away from the machine beds. I put a 3 axis (Chinese) DRO on the mill and mounted the encoders so that all the open sides are turned away from the flying chips. This meant a lot more bracketry and 3 days of work.. But hey I got a nice mill to make all the adjustment slots..:). So far I have welded up the supplied thread on the QC toolpost and on the lathe screw cut the required thread.. I actually used the HSS tool I ground in 1980 in my apprentice program.. I was surprised I didn't mess it up. So far more welding than machining. I gotta get me one of those straight knurling tools. I assumed the splines were cut on a dividing head.
@@frankish5314 man, you have been busy. The dro is life changing. I had a 10 x30 Frejoth lathe before this one and it didn't have one on it and then got this one and put one on. It made working so much faster. The splines were roll-knurled, super easy to do once the height is set. I did it the hard way a few years back on the indexer and was a pain To do. I had to start covering the machines due to the grinding dust and torch table cutting. I found the black moving clothes (/cotton ) at princess auto ( like harbor freight) for 5 each. Wish I had a separate room for it all but that's just another thing to spend money on that I don't have :)
Careful. Is the welding current passing in turn through the lathe bearings? I use an old copper plated woven flat car battery earth over the lathe shaft/chuck.
Oh no I definitely don't weld on the lathe. I'm using a welding positioner (/it looks like a lathe but is designed to weld round stuff ) Basically it works like your saying it had a piece of copper that drags on the chuck and doesn't destroy the bearings in the head of the positioner .good point !
I was thinking you really don't need that groove in the splines for the pinch bolt to go all the way around . The tip of the shift lever doesn't need that much point up or point down adjustment . If you just filed enough groove for the bolt you would have most of the spline go all the way across and make a stronger connection ? I understand that would never be practical for the factory to do it that way.. Great video .
If you do that though, you better know Exactly where that lever sits on the bike in relation to the mechanism inside the case. No adjustment for the customer either. I've never seen one break at that point for what it's worth.. ✌️
I had that problem with my moped many years ago but I just put a piece of thin plate from a soda can around the shaft to get a tighter squeeze. I think it held up quite well but not as new splines.
Wow. Great tutorial Am new to machining and i can't quite understand how does this work with knurling! How wont knurling tool teeth overlap from one turn to the other unless it is perfectly maching shaft diameter? Is that how it works? So you just have to get perfect shaft diameter to get correct spline teeth number and no overlap? Thanks
Great question . Knurling is a metal forming operation . This means metal is molded like you would clay . Just at higher pressures . The first step to it working is to have a closet size diameter . Since its forming the metal its a wider tollerence that you can have and usualy is not a problem, usually the wrong size diameter means the wrong amount of teeth and not overlapping. Once you start the tool into the work it creates a path , it has to have a good pressure on it so its deep. As it does a full rotation the last tooth of the knurling tool will hopfuly pick up on the first groove formed either mold that very first tooth wide or a little short . Then it molds the next tooth with less error and so on . By the time it has gon around a couple of times it would have evened out like it nexer happened . In saying that there are times when it just will not seem to work . Thats because the hight of the tool is wrong , dull or rarely the diameter is not correct .
at 17:00 what is getting the grooves? It is repeated pressing (forging) by ridges on that rotating tool ? The diameter of job need to be precise so that whole number of ridges make the perimeter
Yes the od is cut to very close to the other size. . If memeory serves me . ( it was a few years ago ) it was a hair smaller than the part . Half way between the top of the spline and the bottom . This should be the size . Hope that helps.
The most important thing about knurling is getting the diameter correct. just a few thou too big or to small and you will end up with what you had, a double knurl. I always check the pattern by hand, and reduce the diameter gradually until I get a perfect mesh. Think of a knurl as a round thread. Tool maker 35+yrs.
Thank you , that makes sence , kinda like gears . I had wondered about that . I feal like there is more wiggle room than a gear of course since it is forming the work . But if you are directly below or in the middle between the teeth spacing i can see it being an issue
Great job , Just wondering how tight you would recommend that pinch bolt to be , my manual says 10nm but that feels tight and it squeezes the gap down at and angle , do they just need nipping up so they don't move around or would you tourqe it to the manual spec , my bolt is an m8 hex head into aluminium
To be honest I can't give you an answer to this. But what I can speak to is I have always referred to factory manuals my self and it's best practice to follow them. I have heard very experienced mechanics say that after market manuals frequently have errors in them and I do not trust them 100%. Hope this helped
@@Wrighmachining thanks for the reply and I totally agree , I settled with 8nm as I just nipped it up and it felt just about right and put the tourqe wrench on it and it was 7.5 nm so I went to 8nm , but any more than that on such a small bolt into aluminium would be overkill I think 👍🏼👍🏼
I'm in tacoma , Washington actually you might just be able to make a new bar it has a pin that holds the paw on it its for a 1977 Suzuki rm125 also fits the Suzuki pe.. I could send it to you and have you look at it I would be willing to pay Shipping both ways and you could save measurements and make more because.. can't get them anymore and it's the rod and splinds that go bad..
Great video! Question, how did you know that knurlimg wheel was the right pitch for that spline? Also, a few blasts of WD40 would have made quick work at removing the knurled chips ;-)
if i sent you the old ratchet shifter from my victory vegas motorcycle and the money (the amt you charge)could you make me one for my bike ? You do incredible work the best ive seen on YT .
Hi LJ thank you. wish I could help you out but I'm booked solid for the next 2 months. :( Perhaps in summer. Shoot me an email, you can find it in the about section of my YT page
@@Wrighmachining thank you for replying.Enjoyed your video and i am not surprised to hear you are booked solid with the quality work you do. thanks again
Liked the comment about the man who was always talking. The Lord gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason! You're supposed to listen twice as much as you talk!😉
That worked out really well! I wonder if you were lucky to find a knurling wheel to match the splines you needed to make, or if they are both commonly that size?
I've never heard of this. You did an amazing job. I will definitely be using this technique.
Glad to help !! I was making them the hard way for a long time and this was sugested to my by an old machinist / motorcycle enthuaiest :)
I've done a similar repair. I just silver soldered the sleeve in place. I leave them at 1/2" diameter and use the early Sportster shift levers. They're smooth inside and believe me, it takes a lot to make them slip. And, when they do, there's no damage to the transmission or shaft lever. I once even made a custom stainless shift lever. I'd bet I had less time in that than you did in repairing your shaft. Just another way to think about.
Wondering why you didn’t just weld the shaft and then turn it down.
I wanted to put on 1045 steel and only had plain wire in my welder
Fair enough…good video
A wire brush does a good job knurling
soot from the torch also works as welding anti spatter
Great point !!!
Looks good there. Welding positioners are so handy to have.
Totally and for what you pay and how the job looks in the end is unbeatable. Mine has payed for it's self a few times over ( got lucky and had some jobs for it )
@@Wrighmachining Oh yeah I see your knocking on 1K subs there. Nice job 👍
@@hilltopmachineworks2131 thanks tom !! A mile stone for sure, love all the support from people and met so many amazing people along the way this last year.
@@Wrighmachining Did you get my parcel?
@@hilltopmachineworks2131 parcel?! No not yet, thank you I will keep an eye out for it.
I enjoyed this and look forward to my own repair job as I will be facing a repair on a Hond XL 250 kick starter spline and lever.
Glad you enjoyed it. I think to do it again I may have covered the shaft some how to protect it from spatter and welded it up on low heat little bits at a time with a big welder ( .024 wire with 75/25 has ) Then machined it. Could be a lot simpler that way. The only draw back would be to much heat I to the shaft
That is amazing, i never thought it was done this way, its way faster then the press/gouge method. Maybe the factorys have a spline cutting tool that they press over the shaft, but the wear on the tool might be very fast.
I could see you would want to do a test run first to really see if the pitch and starting diameter was right. If you get others to do, keep in mind they dont all have the number of splines.
Nice video
I always use an air compressor and brake cleaner to make the knurls clean in between oiling.
Good point thank you, Compressed air would have worked better for sure. Next time :)
Thanks for the plug and thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
No problem, like wise :)
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have 3 shifter and a couple kick starter shafts that all need to be repaired in a similar fashion. Could you possibly show us the chart for spline numbers? One of the parts I need to fix is the kick starter shaft on my 1981 Maico 490. A replacement part that is difficult to find at best, if not almost impossible. I could easily repair what I have after watching this video. Thanks again.
Im so sorry , i have missplaced the spread sheet i had when i made the video and im traveling right now ( panama city ) and i cant look it up in the machinery hand book . But there are calculators out there for it . Perhaps this one
littlemachineshop.com/reference/knurler.php
Or this one . I realy nerded out on this one just now ,lol it has alot of info
www.machiningdoctor.com/calculators/knurling/
Very nice I learned something. I had 6 months training before I went off to university and study engineering. Back then they didn't even have indexable carbide tools or DRO's. Now in retirement I have just bought a new Precision Matthews 1440GT lathe and an 835 mill. Cheap Chinese tooling and I'm having a blast...:)
Frankish , man I'm glad to hear that. all my stuff is second hand or with cheap tooling as well. In fact the knurling tool I was using cost $10, lol.
Dro is worth the money ( all my dros are Chinese ones and are good and accurate )
What have you been building?
@@Wrighmachining Well so far I have been setting up and reconfiguring my shop. I built a clean work bench with a steel top, then promptly put all my grinding gear on it.. NOPE!.. Now have been moving all the dirty stuff away from the machine beds. I put a 3 axis (Chinese) DRO on the mill and mounted the encoders so that all the open sides are turned away from the flying chips. This meant a lot more bracketry and 3 days of work.. But hey I got a nice mill to make all the adjustment slots..:). So far I have welded up the supplied thread on the QC toolpost and on the lathe screw cut the required thread.. I actually used the HSS tool I ground in 1980 in my apprentice program.. I was surprised I didn't mess it up. So far more welding than machining. I gotta get me one of those straight knurling tools. I assumed the splines were cut on a dividing head.
@@frankish5314 man, you have been busy. The dro is life changing. I had a 10 x30 Frejoth lathe before this one and it didn't have one on it and then got this one and put one on. It made working so much faster. The splines were roll-knurled, super easy to do once the height is set. I did it the hard way a few years back on the indexer and was a pain To do.
I had to start covering the machines due to the grinding dust and torch table cutting. I found the black moving clothes (/cotton ) at princess auto ( like harbor freight) for 5 each. Wish I had a separate room for it all but that's just another thing to spend money on that I don't have :)
Learning something every time, thanks.
Np Roscoe I love making videos and sharing.
Careful. Is the welding current passing in turn through the lathe bearings? I use an old copper plated woven flat car battery earth over the lathe shaft/chuck.
Oh no I definitely don't weld on the lathe. I'm using a welding positioner (/it looks like a lathe but is designed to weld round stuff ) Basically it works like your saying it had a piece of copper that drags on the chuck and doesn't destroy the bearings in the head of the positioner .good point !
I was thinking you really don't need that groove in the splines for the pinch bolt to go all the way around . The tip of the shift lever doesn't need that much point up or point down adjustment . If you just filed enough groove for the bolt you would have most of the spline go all the way across and make a stronger connection ? I understand that would never be practical for the factory to do it that way.. Great video .
Good thought . I see what you mean . I will try that next time
I agree. Why weaken the shaft unnecessarily. Strength and purchase are important.
If you do that though, you better know Exactly where that lever sits on the bike in relation to the mechanism inside the case. No adjustment for the customer either. I've never seen one break at that point for what it's worth.. ✌️
I had that problem with my moped many years ago but I just put a piece of thin plate from a soda can around the shaft to get a tighter squeeze. I think it held up quite well but not as new splines.
Some times you do what you have to when you dont have to tools and have to get home :)
Wow. Great tutorial
Am new to machining and i can't quite understand how does this work with knurling! How wont knurling tool teeth overlap from one turn to the other unless it is perfectly maching shaft diameter? Is that how it works? So you just have to get perfect shaft diameter to get correct spline teeth number and no overlap? Thanks
Great question . Knurling is a metal forming operation . This means metal is molded like you would clay . Just at higher pressures . The first step to it working is to have a closet size diameter . Since its forming the metal its a wider tollerence that you can have and usualy is not a problem, usually the wrong size diameter means the wrong amount of teeth and not overlapping. Once you start the tool into the work it creates a path , it has to have a good pressure on it so its deep. As it does a full rotation the last tooth of the knurling tool will hopfuly pick up on the first groove formed either mold that very first tooth wide or a little short . Then it molds the next tooth with less error and so on . By the time it has gon around a couple of times it would have evened out like it nexer happened .
In saying that there are times when it just will not seem to work . Thats because the hight of the tool is wrong , dull or rarely the diameter is not correct .
Thank you so much for explanation. I will read it and think it few times to try and get the idea lolll..
at 17:00 what is getting the grooves? It is repeated pressing (forging) by ridges on that rotating tool ? The diameter of job need to be precise so that whole number of ridges make the perimeter
Yes the od is cut to very close to the other size. . If memeory serves me . ( it was a few years ago ) it was a hair smaller than the part . Half way between the top of the spline and the bottom . This should be the size . Hope that helps.
@@Wrighmachining That is quite precision work. Thanks for the reply.
Cool vid, you need a tig!
The most important thing about knurling is getting the diameter correct. just a few thou too big or to small and you will end up with what you had, a double knurl. I always check the pattern by hand, and reduce the diameter gradually until I get a perfect mesh. Think of a knurl as a round thread. Tool maker 35+yrs.
Thank you , that makes sence , kinda like gears . I had wondered about that . I feal like there is more wiggle room than a gear of course since it is forming the work . But if you are directly below or in the middle between the teeth spacing i can see it being an issue
ingenious, nicely done.
Thank buddy , glad ypu liked it !
Nurling always increases dia so your should bear this in mind for final OD.
Yes, that's right. Knurling is displacing the metal and molding it with point pressure.
Great job , Just wondering how tight you would recommend that pinch bolt to be , my manual says 10nm but that feels tight and it squeezes the gap down at and angle , do they just need nipping up so they don't move around or would you tourqe it to the manual spec , my bolt is an m8 hex head into aluminium
To be honest I can't give you an answer to this. But what I can speak to is I have always referred to factory manuals my self and it's best practice to follow them. I have heard very experienced mechanics say that after market manuals frequently have errors in them and I do not trust them 100%.
Hope this helped
@@Wrighmachining thanks for the reply and I totally agree , I settled with 8nm as I just nipped it up and it felt just about right and put the tourqe wrench on it and it was 7.5 nm so I went to 8nm , but any more than that on such a small bolt into aluminium would be overkill I think 👍🏼👍🏼
I restore vintage motorcycle, was wondering how much you charged for that?
Courently super booked with life and what not. Where about are you located?
I'm in tacoma , Washington actually you might just be able to make a new bar it has a pin that holds the paw on it its for a 1977 Suzuki rm125 also fits the Suzuki pe..
I could send it to you and have you look at it I would be willing to pay Shipping both ways and you could save measurements and make more because.. can't get them anymore and it's the rod and splinds that go bad..
Let's talk, I can't post my email on the comments however it should be in my bio or in the profile contact info. Please email me :)
Better yet look me up on Facebook wright matching and DM me there. We can talk more :)
That's a great job, do you know what size that Knurl wheel is? Cheers
I do not sorry
HA! Your auto script translated your "Spinnage" [ Is that a word?] to Spinach ! Popeye'd be proud of ya!
Great video! Question, how did you know that knurlimg wheel was the right pitch for that spline? Also, a few blasts of WD40 would have made quick work at removing the knurled chips ;-)
Wd40 ! Yup your right . Dont have any though :) . It was kibda fitting it up by eye and then trial and error on a testor peice .
Thanks, great video!
Glad you enjoyed viking
if i sent you the old ratchet shifter from my victory vegas motorcycle and the money (the amt you charge)could you make me one for my bike ? You do incredible work the best ive seen on YT .
Hi LJ thank you. wish I could help you out but I'm booked solid for the next 2 months. :( Perhaps in summer. Shoot me an email, you can find it in the about section of my YT page
@@Wrighmachining thank you for replying.Enjoyed your video and i am not surprised to hear you are booked solid with the quality work you do. thanks again
FYI - At the end you say here is a video you might like but there isn't a video link.
Ah yes thank you. I'll jump on right now and fix that :)
real nice job.
Thank you , glad you enjoyed it . Curently im working on a crank shaft truing stand casted and machined . Perhaps this may interest you as well
@@Wrighmachining thx, yes.
Jealous of your lathe brake haha, i have to always think so far ahead for everything i do
Man tgis machine is amazing up grade from my previouse 12x20 Fregoth
Man that's awesome can't tell you how many times and how many bikes I had that absolutely destroyed on the same way. Would get out the welder 😆
I think when we where younger we may have all done a quick fix or two to get back ridding.
I can't confirm not deny doing the same thing :)
Liked the comment about the man who was always talking. The Lord gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason! You're supposed to listen twice as much as you talk!😉
I'll have to tell my wife that one .... after I've checked if the spare bed is made!
That worked out really well! I wonder if you were lucky to find a knurling wheel to match the splines you needed to make, or if they are both commonly that size?
It was a bit of luck how I came across it, but I deal it's a standard size they use . however, there are a few different sizes you can find.
excellent - and I am a Kawasaki drag racer!
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it
Mom told me no one ever learned anything with their mouth open!😂
Hahaha , so true . 2 ears , two eyes .... one mouth . So hard though i frequently forget that
👍👍👍
🍻
And those parts are getting hard to find for the old bikes on some ... o never tell a machinist those words... they don't make this anymore.... lol
Hahaha, a shady machinist may make you pay double. Guess I should have charged for the part and not worked for beer :)
quiet please lol
:)
when knurling just send it full force right off the bat. dont step into it.
Full send, I'll try that :) thx
@@Wrighmachining joe pieczynski has a really good video on knurling
I'd use an airline ;)
Airline ? How so ?
Can you shorten my shift shaft for me
Hey buddy wish i could but very swamped at the moment